A Ranger's Reset: Ibogaine, 5-MeO-DMT, and Post-Traumatic Growth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is Health and Fitness Redefined, brought to
you by Redefined Fitness.
Hello and welcome to Health andFitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen.
Today we have another greatepisode for all of you today.
Today's guest is Mr Mike, righthere next to me.
It's so much better to do anin-person one than virtual For

(00:24):
those that want to come on.
Guys, we have a new podcastroom, so if you're in the local
community, you have a story toshare, let me know Happy to get
you on, sit down, talk about itand see how we can help other
people, because ultimately,that's what this is all about.
So, without further ado, let'swelcome Mike.
Mike Leal is someone I've knownfor a few years now, really
excited to hear his story.
If you heard my story beyondbreaking points, this one's

(00:47):
going to blow you away.
So share it to someone whoneeds to hear this, because I
think this could help a lot ofpeople.
So, mike, just tell us a littlebit about yourself.
Kind of take us all the wayback to even your decision to
join the military.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, that's actually a good starting point.
So I grew up in upstate NewYork.
I lived in Marcellus, new York,a little small town, about
5,000 people.
I ended up going to college atUniversity of Albany and I was
actually a heroin addict when Iwas in college.
I ended up dropping out mysenior year.
I overdosed in my room and Iwas like this is no way to live.

(01:24):
I was struggling really bad andone of my good friends brought
me to the recruiter's office andit was like hey, like I'm gonna
help you out.
He helped walk me through thewhole process and I ended up
joining the army.
Man, it's crazy hearing youknow myself talk about it
because it's, it seems, so longago and it's so fresh in my mind

(01:46):
like all the craziness that Iwent through.
But I joined the Army.
I was 23 years old.
I ended up going to Fort Sill,oklahoma.
I did basic training there andat the time I wanted nothing to
do with combat.
I was a computer nerd so I justwanted to sit behind a computer
desk.
I remember the recruiter askingme.

(02:07):
He was like hey, do you want todo airborne?
I was like heck, no, I'mfreaking afraid of heights, like
I would never jump out of anairplane.
So that changed later.
But I ended up going to what'scalled my AIT, my advanced
individual training.
That's my job.
There was a communications guyin the military and when I was

(02:29):
around the people I was around,I was like I am going to die if
I'm around these people.
It was an eye-openingexperience.
I'm very transparent about themilitary.
There are some great peoplethat serve but, just like the
world, there's just some thingsthat aren't right with some
people.
I just didn't feel comfortablearound them.
So one of my buddies, hisname's nick mott um, he was

(02:49):
there with me and all he wastalking about was his brother
and how this he was doing thiscool training, and I was like,
oh well, you know, tell me aboutit.
He's like, well, they deployfor three months.
I was like, oh, I will do that,I don't care what it is.
Little did I know he wastalking about being an army
ranger.
So I ended up going to airborneschool, jumping out of airplanes

(03:11):
and, uh, volunteering to be anarmy ranger.
I had no idea what thatentailed, had no idea what they
even did.
Minus, they had three monthdeployments.
Uh, for those of you don't know, uh, army rangers are the
army's primary assault force andtheir job is to go and kill or

(03:32):
capture whatever they they havetheir eyes on and they do it
very well and they're verylethal and that's a big
difference.
I like I like to educate theaudience.
People will say well, is itspecial forces, is it this?
There's a big difference.
Special forces goes in and theywork with locals and they help
build militias and get people tofight against whatever evil

(03:55):
powers in the area.
And rangers, they just go inand kill things.
It's a big difference in joband it takes a certain type of
person to do both.
The ranger selection programit's called RASP.
I went through the first onewhere they changed from RIP to
RASP.
We started with about 300candidates, graduated, I believe

(04:19):
, 35.
Wow, yeah, it's been crazy.
That was nothing but a test ofyour mental and physical
toughness.
Um, very little sleep, more PTthan you can imagine.
Um, running, rucking, uh,basically torture for like the
first four weeks.
Um, it was brutal.

(04:40):
I lost about 30, 35 poundsthrough that process.
Um, but I made it through anduh, and ended up going to a
second ranger battalion andthat's in Fort Lewis at Tacoma,
washington, and that's where Ireally started working and I did
communications for the wholeranger battalion and then I

(05:04):
eventually deployed and went toKandahar my first trip.
I was sitting behind a desk forthe first like couple weeks and
then I got the itch.
I was like I want to go out onmission and that is what changed
my life is.
I went out on my first missionand I get off that helicopter.
We're about about a hundredfeet from the house that we were

(05:27):
assaulting and it was like ascene from a movie doors blowing
off, guys on the roof shootingguns, killing people, um, and I
was just like Whoa, it was likea sensory overload.
I was almost like in shock.
It was just whatever you couldimagine in a crazy military
movie.
That's what it was.
And from that point on I wasaddicted.

(05:48):
I went out every single nightthat I could with all the
platoons that were there inKandahar with me.
And after that deployment Iended up going to ranger school,
which is very difficult to goto, especially if you're a
communications guy and went toranger school after my

(06:09):
deployment, failed the firstphase what's called recycled and
had to wait until the nextclass started up.
But in between that they had athing called Best Ranger.
It happens every year.
So I had like a six-week breakbefore I could start again and
they just kind of beat the crapout of you for six weeks before
you start again, um.

(06:30):
So I did that, made it all theway through, graduated class
7-11 um, and deployed two weeksafter my graduation.
Uh, mind you, after I graduatedI couldn't lift a 20 pound
dumbbell.
I lost 50 pounds while I was inranger school and um, I had to

(06:51):
get back into shape and fightingshape because I I went out and
deployed literally two weeksafter I graduated.
And then um did that deploymentto kandahar again did nothing, a
ton of combat.
Uh, lost a lot of friends,experienced a lot of uh, very
brutal things while I wasdeployed and um came back home,

(07:14):
did my training cycle did.
Another deployment to Sheratwas place called Sharana.
Uh, that was my craziestdeployment.
Uh, I mean, I was shot atpretty much half the missions we
went out on each night, steppedon bombs, lost a lot of friends
again, and that was kind oflike a reoccurring theme

(07:36):
throughout most of mydeployments.
I did six total deployments ineight years.
I spent most of my careerdeployed to Afghanistan and all
in other parts of the world aswell.
I did other things.
I ended up doing undercovercommunications and low-vis comms
is what they call with a lot ofthe big players like SEAL, team

(07:56):
6, black and Gold Squadron,delta Force, things like that.
And towards the end of mycareer is when I started really
struggling with my mental health.
I didn't know what was wrong.
I would get out of work andjust start crying in my truck.
I just I would start bawling.
I felt this incredible sense ofloneliness and hopelessness.

(08:20):
I was talking to a socialworker at my old job at JSOC and
I would call her just bawlingmy eyes out.
At this time I was bodybuilding, so that's when I started my
bodybuilding coaching career.
But all I could do was get home, change, go to the gym so I
wouldn't be alone, and that'swhen my mental health just

(08:42):
started to really deteriorate.
It was towards the end of mycareer and with that, once I got
out, I started an onlinecoaching business where I just
want to stop you there because Ithink it's important to go back
.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Okay, right, take me back to pre-military right.
Okay, you mentioned something Ihad no idea.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
So you were a heroin addict?

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yes, Beforehand, and I think there's an underlying
connection here which a lot ofpeople might have as well to
relate.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
What got you into the drug first?
What was that first step?
That?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
So it actually.
I think it's a very common way.
Someone gave me a painkillerand I've never taken one before.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Um what made you want to take a painkiller, though?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
um, I think, just being in college and, like you
know, experimenting withdifferent things, someone had
one and we're like, yeah, Idon't want this.
And I was like I'll take itwhatever.
Whatever and as crazy as thatsounds, that's what got me
hooked, because the feeling onit was so intense and felt so
good that I was like, oh man,like I always want to feel like

(09:54):
that.
And what's unfortunate you knowI kind of left this part out,
but I'm glad you brought us backto it is a group of us high
school friends, all very goodstudents, very good kids, all
got into it at the same time andthere's only a few of us left
that survived.
Most of them have overdosed andpassed away, including my best

(10:15):
friend.
His name is Dylan.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Did you feel a sense of loneliness back then?
That made you feel like,because you mentioned the
painkiller gave you a sense younever had before.
So was there somethingdisconnected?

Speaker 2 (10:27):
so, um, I will say this, and I'm not going to get
into too much detail I I didhave some trauma happen when I
was a child that, um, I nevertold anyone, and I didn't even
tell my own, my, my mom, until Iwas like 32 years old, 33 years
old, and I think that is whatmade it very difficult for me in

(10:51):
college.
I went to college and I was ashit show.
I couldn't focus in school, Iwas depressed, I couldn't
function by myself and it wasvery frustrating.
I think that's what kind ofmade things worse for me.
I would go in these cycles ofbeing good, not good, year in

(11:11):
and year out, and later aphysician I worked with was like
oh, you had PTSD then too,right, and I think that just
goes unchecked.
I think a lot of people don'trealize that trauma, especially
childhood trauma, will manifestitself later and you may have no

(11:33):
idea why it just comes out ofnowhere.
So that might be a goodconnection between those things.
Yeah, it relates back.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
So you start thinking that there's PTSD earlier in
life.
That brings you into themilitary.
The military, I can justimagine never gone through it,
but it's quick moving.
You go from boot camp to rangerschool to mission and it's just
nonstop.
So you're constantly riding ahigh and then you get to the
point you get used to it.
All of a sudden, the quick paceis like oh, this is actually

(12:02):
not that bad.
I'm kind of used to going thisquick and then all of a sudden
life catches back up.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Oh yes.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
And that's when it re-hits you.
That's when you got emotionalagain, started breaking down and
that ultimately led you toleave.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, so I was at a point where my mental health was
deteriorating.
The next job I wanted to go tois, you know, going either to
Delta force or another tier oneunit within my community that I
worked in.
There's a lot of very secretunits that people don't know
exist.
But you're basically, whenyou're once you're at where I

(12:40):
was at, you're building yourresume to get to that next level
.
You know, and you have to showat, you're building your resume
to get to that next level andyou have to show yourself,
improve yourself through yourwork.
And I just reached a pointwhere I was like this wasn't
good for me mentally and I lovedhelping people in the
bodybuilding and lifestyleaspect of diet and exercise.
So that's why I chose to getout as well.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
What was the initial push into the bodybuilding
fitness side of it?
Because you could have doneanything, yeah.
So why that?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
It was a challenge and I think a lot of people dive
into it, because it's a couplereasons.
Everyone likes looking good,they like that attention, right.
But additionally, it's likeyou're punishing yourself, right
?
I made a mention of this in myvideo I made yesterday that it
was the only thing that made mefeel something and have purpose.

(13:30):
You know, especially because Iwas doing it while I was in the
military, I was getting up at4am doing an hour of cardio
before work, a training sessionwith a personal trainer before
work, hour of cardio in themiddle of my workday and an hour
of cardio at night and it wasthe only thing that gave me

(13:51):
purpose, because I didn't likemy last job, even though I did
do some cool stuff.
I was miserable and this wasthe only thing I could just put
my attention to.
That made me feel something.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
I'm going to give you a hard question.
Send it Because it's somethingI've noticed, being in this
industry for as long as I havebeen.
Why do you think and I wouldsay the number roughly has got
to be 80% of people who are inthe bodybuilding realm or even
the fitness realm as a wholehave underlying issues?
To begin with, do you thinkthere's any relationship for
people you've met Like, as agood good example?

(14:26):
Most trainers have some traumaearly in life or they have
addictive personalities rightand those are the people that
heavily get into that.
Why do you think there's arelationship there?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
I think it's a connection and feeling something
back from those that you workwith, meaning, whether you're a
big time influencer like you're,you're getting nothing but
praise all the time and it feelsgood, right.
But people that do have trauma,they might be missing that
connection with people.
And I think if you're doingpersonal training in person or

(14:58):
even if you have clients thatyou do zooms with, you're
actually making a connectionwhen typically you would want to
shut yourself in.
So it's a medium in which youcan connect with people and I
think a lot of people gravitatetowards that because it does
feel good, right.
But at the same time it's notfixing the trauma, the
underlying issue.
And I'll be the first to say Imean I was very big in the

(15:21):
fitness industry and a lot ofpeople have messed up past, a
lot Myself, a lot of people Iwas associated with, and it's
the same thing.
There's drugs and alcoholinvolved, steroids involved, all
the things involved in this.
That it just is not a healthymixture of things, especially

(15:42):
for people with trauma.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, mixture of things, especially for people
with trauma.
Yeah, yeah, and I've noticed Imean even studies showing that
the more you post a line aboutyourself, right the actually
unhappy.
You are right, that evenrelates to relationships.
Yes, so the more you post abouthow much you love your spouse
there's a huge correlation tothat.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
You're actually unhappy and actually see it day
to day I am very guilty of that,um, and I even made a mention
of this yesterday.
Like I said in my video, I waslike social media is toxic.
It's not realistic.
People are looking for a lot ofpeople look for validation
through it.
It's not to say that peoplecan't spread a really good
message, share their life andhelp others, but, at the end of

(16:21):
the day, a lot of people arelooking for that dopamine hit.
I'm guilty of this.
I mean, I ran two businessesonline and it was nice.
People would comment on mystuff, people would comment on
my relationships, and it feltgood.
But then it went South for meand then I would.
I I don't know, I never toldyou this, but when I went
through a divorce, I would wakeup to hundreds of death threats
a day and I was like what?

(16:41):
Like all I did was leave arelationship and why do you want
?
Like why should I die?
Right?
You know?
Um, it's very frustrating,especially because I had a
pretty big social mediafollowing, uh, when I was in the
fitness industry, and it wasfrustrating because, like, I've
helped so many people and peopleare just looking at this one
little aspect of my life andmaking me out to be, like this,

(17:04):
villain.
And it hurt, it sucked I meanthat's people.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
I always use politics as an example, not to get into
it, but it's more just if Ibelieve in the red team,
everything the red team is great, everything sucks, right and
then vice versa, right.
People don't believe that twothings could be true at once and
I like explaining that topeople like I.

(17:29):
You know, I might not like youropinion on berries.
You think they suck, I thinkthey're amazing.
But I could love your opinionon how to work out right,
because everyone we're allhumans, we all have good and bad
yes and things that we like andthings we don't enjoy about
different people.
So you have to take that andchange your persona and social
media disappears.
Oh, it's all or nothing onsocial media absolutely people

(17:51):
have no middle ground whatsoeverand I think that's what it.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
It's unfortunate because there's a lot of good
that comes from it.
But I've seen a really darkside of it, especially my past,
and that's why for me it's likeI I don't really do much on
there.
I mean, I have my dog trainingbusiness, but even my personal
one it you know I don't postmuch about my personal life or
anything like that, minus now tospread the message of you know,

(18:18):
the experiences I just wentthrough with my treatment I
recently had.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, and I want to.
I want to continue on just yourstory before we dive further
ahead.
But when you first got into thebodybuilding fitness world, I
know that it must have beentough to bounce into an online
community, learn it and then youwent through some relationship
struggles.
How do you think the militaryaspect and the PTSD affected the

(18:43):
way you were running yourbusiness in your previous
marriage?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
so I have no off switch.
That was the the a good and abad thing, meaning I had
hundreds of online clients.
I was doing nothing but emailsand phone calls all day with
everybody.
It took away from my personalrelationship because it was like
I gotta got to work, I got toachieve financial freedom and

(19:08):
nothing else mattered in my lifebesides training my clients
online, going to the gym, eatingall my meals, getting in all my
water, taking all mysupplements, and I didn't
connect with the world.
I shut everything out just tofocus on whatever my task was,
and it's good and bad, and forme a lot of people know this

(19:31):
about me If I get into somethingthat I like, I will become a
professional in like a yearBecause I just dive into it and
I love it so much and it'sfulfilling for me that I want to
be the best at it and that'sthat's a you know, like a ranger
thing is like you just want tobe the best at whatever you're
doing, you're on a mission.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, the only thing you can think about is the
mission.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
You can't have outside thoughts, thinking about
who's texting me or like that'sit You'd set to accomplish it.
So you train your brain to befocused, and the definition of
focus is to have one task and nooutside thoughts.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
So they just trained that over and over and over
again and applied it in thatcarried through, and I think
that's a great point you bringup, because it's uh, it's
something that people don't talkabout is like especially my
ability ability to disassociatefrom normal life and be Mike the
ranger, not Mike Leal, and thatthat was a very difficult thing

(20:28):
for me to separate untilrecently, because I lived that
where it's.
I didn't have time to thinkabout anything else, especially
if I was on mission, because ifI made a mistake, someone to my
left or right will die, andwhere I worked they expected
perfection.
You can be fired for thesmallest infraction and sent

(20:51):
back to the army, the regulararmy, for literally like nothing
and it's very cutthroat.
And you have to be this highlevel, high performer 24-7, 365.
Because when you get on thebattlefield there's no time to
think about.
Well, someone didn't like myfacebook post.
Oh, my wife is having troublewith the kids back home.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Like, if your mind is not focused on the mission,
people die and it's a good andbad thing to have that skill
yeah, and that's what a lot liesinto underlying ptsd, because
now you're going from extremelyfocused missionary-oriented
mission to now normal day lifewhere things don't need those
extremes.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, I do want to tell this story because I've
only told it one time my thirddeployment, where we lost a lot
of guys.
It was the craziest deploymentfor me as far as firefights and
people dying.
I went from holding one of ourshis name's Sean Pesci, if
anybody wants to look him up,one of our young FOs got shot 14

(21:50):
times and I went with him andhis squad leader his name was
Fletcher to the hospital to gosee him my last day in country
and I was holding his hand.
He was in a coma, like hischest was cracked open, I mean
bullet wounds everywhere, um,and I went from holding his hand

(22:12):
to flying back home that day,pretty much non-stop from
afghanistan to landing, being athome and, like now I have to
deal with just normal life.
You know, and it's people don'tlike it's different for special
ops, like we don't take like thethe nice, like Delta flight
home and you have this bigwelcoming, you land on your base

(22:33):
, go, turn in your equipment andyou go straight to your house.
There's no like integrationweek, it's all right, you have
to go start, you have a coupleof days off and then you have
jump week and your leave andyou're jumping out of airplanes
and you go on your leave.
So it was a very difficulttransition for me to go from
combat people dying to and Igotta go home and deal with

(22:55):
whatever my wife was dealingwith at the time did you have
reoccurring nightmares?
I don't.
So that's a crazy thing.
I I don't think about combat, Idon't think about all the
things I've seen and beenthrough, um.
I think I learned to just buryall of that um and I I've even

(23:15):
mentioned this to people before.
I forget sometimes what I did,like I did some crazy stuff in
the military and it just doesn'tregister that it was even there
.
So you know.
To get back to the thoughts, Idon't have that A lot of my
friends do.
I did have issues when I firstgot out where I'd wake up

(23:36):
screaming or like throwing fists, but that was only for like the
first year after I got out, andthen now I'm fine with that.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
It's mind blowing man .
Yeah, I always say I'm superthankful for those that serve,
because it's something I don'tthink I ever could have done.
So it just takes a specialperson to really go out and do
it.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
And it.
That's the toughest part for me.
And I'll say what I struggledwith with my transition out was
you're with what I call like Idub this, like immortals, like
you're with other warriors thatcan kill, they can fight, and
you feel invincible with themand you can depend on them, no

(24:21):
matter what's going on.
And I struggled with that whenI got out of the military
because I thought everyone elsewas like that and no, I was
backstabbed, I was you name it.
All the trust I would put intopeople, nothing like what a
ranger buddy is what they callit would do for me.
You know that was very tough no, definitely not.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's just people in nature and something we learn
yeah throughout life is you givepeople trust and stab in the
back.
Yeah, kind of deal, but thereare people that can help you out
and move you forward and thatkind of takes you to the next
step, like right, you wereliving in colorado previously,
right?

Speaker 2 (24:59):
um, so I lived in.
I did live in colorado, um, uh.
When I got out of the military,I went through what I would dub
as a uh, very similar storyamongst other veterans in my
situation.
I was married three times,divorced three times, um
struggled with substance abuse.

(25:20):
When I got out, um, I wasdrinking, uh, which I didn't
like drinking.
I didn't even really drink whenI was in the military, like
like my friends did, where itwas like it was very common,
like everyone drank, but I justdidn't drink that much,
especially because I was likeinto bodybuilding.
And when I started reallystruggling with my mental health

(25:42):
going through theserelationships, then I got
addicted to cocaine.
There's a picture of it in mylast video I posted online where
I lost 70 pounds from justdoing cocaine every day and
drinking.
And then I would get sober, I'dbe in a relationship and then,
boom, it would happen all againand again and I didn't know what

(26:02):
was wrong with me.
And it wasn't.
It wasn't that I was addictedto those substances, it was a
coping mechanism for what I wasstruggling with mentally, with
PTSD, and it was tough because Iwould people be like well,
you're a drug addict, you're analcoholic.
I went to AA, I went to NA,I've even been to rehab.
None of it can fix a damagedbrain and that's what I didn't

(26:26):
really take into account was my.
I had two TBIs from explosionsand hitting my head in the
military, but I never took itseriously.
It was like, well, I'm afucking ranger, like I don't, I
don't feel pain.
I was like I don't have timefor that and I never took that
seriously.
It was like I don't have timefor that and I never took that
seriously.
It was like I started acceptingthat.

(26:47):
I was like, well, maybe I am adrug addict, maybe I am an
alcoholic, and it just ate awayat me.
And eventually I ended up, youknow, through relationships,
moving to Colorado and thenmoving to Florida, but I just
didn't know where you wanted togo with any of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
No, I think it's important.
I mean especially like TVIs andrehab and going through that
experience and I want to talkabout that a little bit because
I have some unpopular opinionsand I want to get your opinion
on it and then talk throughrehab itself.
Okay, so you went through AA,aa, you went through counseling
yep I know you personally.

(27:27):
I've done a lot of differentstuff.
Walk me through which ones youthink helped, why they helped
and which ones definitely didn'thelp and why you don't think.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I think it really depends on where you're at in
life and, looking back now, theunderlying issue is going to be
whatever you're dealing with,trauma wise.
I personally this is my ownpersonal opinion I think a lot
of substance abuse issues areunresolved trauma, substance

(28:09):
abuse issues or unresolvedtrauma, and you can go to AA,
you can go to NA, you can go torehab.
Whatever the case may be, ifthat trauma isn't resolved,
those things are not going to doanything for you.
I didn't.
When I was in those, I was likewell, I'm getting out, I'm just
going to go do whatever when Iget out, because it didn't fix
anything.
You're in there with people thatare like pissed off, they're in
a clinic or they're, you know,they're at an AA meeting and

(28:31):
they're like I just don't wantto drink today and it's like
again it's, they're strugglinginternally with something else.
Can you be addicted to things?
Absolutely.
I went through heroinwithdrawal.
That was terrible.
I went through alcoholwithdrawal.
That was terrible.
I went through alcoholwithdrawal.
That was all terrible.
I've been through a lot ofthose things.
But all of those programs, dothey help people?

(28:54):
Obviously they do, but for themajority, I think a lot of the
mental health issues aren'ttargeted enough and those are
not resolved and that's why alot of people relapse and go
back.
I would say another big thingis the things they talk about,
especially in those meetings ischanging the people, places and
things that you do that areassociated with alcohol, drugs,

(29:17):
whatever the case may be.
A lot of people can't move fromwhere they're at.
A lot of people can't changesome of the things in their
environment.
You know, maybe it's a spousedoing something, but, whatever
the case may be, it's verydifficult and I think that's why
there's such a high level offailure in those things.
And again, not to say itdoesn't help people, because I
know it does, but I would sayoverwhelmingly it doesn't

(29:39):
address the true issue, which isprobably some type of trauma.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I always compare it to weight loss drugs.
Okay, and we talked about thisprevious right.
So taking Ozempic Right Couldhelp you lose weight, yeah, but
what's going to happen?
You're going to relapse becauseyou didn't fix the underlying
issue of your mental issue,which is food or lack of
activity, whichever side itcomes through.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
But like you don't fix that underlying issue, which
is daily, you're not going tokeep it off do you want to hear
my selling point for anybodythat wants to get well in their
life, health and wellness way?
sure I've always told this, I'vetold amanda this numerous times
if you have a family, you loveyourself, you love your kids,
you love your grand kids, youlove everyone in your life is it

(30:22):
worth investing just a littlebit into your health and
wellness so you can spend moretime with them?
It doesn't matter if you'retrying to lose weight, it
doesn't matter if you're tryingto put on muscle or take Ozempic
and just be lean for yourvacation.
It's a mindset, lifestylechange to go.
You know what I want to bearound for my grandkids.

(30:42):
I want to live as long as I canwith my spouse.
It's not about being jacked,it's not about having abs, you
know it's.
It's longevity.
And as I've gotten older andI've, you know, I go to the gym
three times a week.
I stay in pretty good shapebecause I eat right, I, I, I'm
consistent on that front and Ijust do enough for health and

(31:07):
longevity.
But that's a selling point.
I would always tell people thatprevious clients I had that
it's not about the looks, theaesthetics, it's about the
longevity.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
You're buying time and you're buying experiences.
I literally posted thisyesterday.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Oh, check it off.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
So I had a picture of my son on my shoulders and I
got so fed up of people askingwhat the cost is.
What's the cost?
What's the cost?
It's just like who gives a shit?
You know you can go outside andwork out for free, but do you
do it?
No, no.
So the cost is whatever's goingto get you to do it right
whatever amount of money youneed to spend, whatever program
you need to join right that'swhat makes it worth it, for I

(31:45):
was crawling around the floorlast night with my son.
He's eight, nine months old.
For those that don't know.
If I was 100 points overweight,I couldn't do that.
If I was broken, I couldn't.
Like he was loving it.
We're crawling under chairs.
Yeah, like it was.
It's an experience.
I take him for walks, I carryhim up and down the stairs, like
those things you're not goingto do.
Then you're buying time.
Like right, you mentioned beingthere for your kids watching

(32:06):
the good older like you mightnot.
Right, you don't take care ofyourself.
You could die at 50.
I've seen it absolutely so whynot buy time with your spouse
and buy time with your kids?
And you buy that by spendingmoney to get it healthy again
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
And I think what gets lost in translation with this
is I know you know this ispeople come to you, to when
they're at like, hey, I'mdiabetic or pre diabetic, I have
these heart conditions, andit's like, well, are you willing
to make a five degree shift tochange your life?
Right, that's don't understand,it's not much and there's no

(32:46):
secret.
Yes, ozempic exists.
Yes, all these things exist,but it's very easy.
It's the consistency of showingup to care about yourself a
little bit with fitness of sometype and just eating.
Right, it's not the pills, it'snot the Ozempic.
If you can commit to that, um,you'll be good.
It's just people have a toughtime making that transition and

(33:09):
letting go and being like youknow what, like maybe this, this
does work, you know, and, um,it's tough to see, like I've, I
feel bad because the easy greenbutton is there now with those
epic and things like that, butpeople don't realize that you
still have to change what's uphere or else those things don't
matter long term well, let'stalk about changing up in there,

(33:31):
because I love that.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
That's my favorite topic in the world.
I am a firm believer and I seeit because I talk to people all
the time.
The majority of people don'tcare.
They have tired to diabetes,don't care, they have high blood
pressure, don't't care, they'reoverweight, and I think that's
a cultural thing that's beenpushed.
It's definitely changing nowthis year.
But I've seen it with peoplewhere they brag about who's on

(33:53):
insulin.
It's like this isn't a joke,you're going to die.
You're going to die a slow,painful death.
Why are we all joking andpretending this is the norm?
Why do you think that is?
Why are we all joking andpretending this is the norm?
Why do you?

Speaker 2 (34:05):
think that is.
I think that people, I thinkpeople struggle with identity
and I think when those things dohappen where they maybe they
have they are diabetic, they areon all these drugs it's like,
oh well, whatever, like, oh, Ijust got to take my shot, like,
and it's accepted, and no onereally gives them like the firm

(34:27):
shaking of like hey, you'rediabetic, like you might lose
your leg, you might use yourfoot, you know you might lose
your life, and people don'tvalue it enough, unfortunately,
because it's like, oh, I'malready at this point, whatever,
it's too much for them mentallyto make the change.
And it's sad, like I've hadlots of clients that are on

(34:52):
insulin, metformin, like all thenormal things that people get
prescribed, and it's like, well,how do we get off this?
Well, we just got to make thatfive-degree shift and want it
for yourself, first and foremost, because if you can't take care
of yourself, you can't takecare of everybody else in your
circle it's totally true.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
I mean, you even add that to something that always,
always, internally bothered me.
It's married men.
Where I started, moved to aneighborhood, start making talk
to your neighbors, you know yeahand they start talking about
how, like I went to poker nightonce and my neighbor is like, oh
, you know you have to come topoker.
And we're there.

(35:31):
I'm like, okay, whatever.
He's like look at that hotchick.
I wish my wife was that hot.
And he's going off on like thistangent about how he wants to
get with this girl and I'm likeI I hate, right that stuff yeah,
because it kind of ties intothe example of fitness of if you
just confronted your wife andlooked at your marriage, you

(35:51):
couldn't make your marriagebetter, your wife better and
yourself better.
And this guy is your typical 50, 60 year old man who's got a
giant beer belly.
And I was like, well, why don'tyou start working out?
He's talking about as fat aswife got.
And I'm like, well, why don'tyou guys go to the gym together?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Right, I see that.
I see that a lot.
I've seen a lot, especially inmy fitness career, because
you're always looking for thatnext best thing and you're not
looking at what's in front ofyou.
And I'm very blessed to have mywife, who's helped me through

(36:27):
all my struggles too with thisstuff, where I'd be able to go
to the gym, not go to the gym,you know, struggle with drinking
, not drinking like she's.
She stayed there through allthis stuff and saw the good in
me and things like that.
And you know, for me that wasmotivation.
Even now, after my recentexperience, it's like I want to
be there for her and be able to,you know, be the husband she

(36:49):
wanted, because I'm like, healednow and I don't look at other
things.
I don't look at things that way.
I've never been like that whereI'm like, well, that girl's hot
or anything like that, becauseit's that never registered in my
mind and, to be honest, andlike I think now with culture
it's just, oh, like it's easy tosay these things but not look
at like, hey, look, I have awife, she does this for me, but

(37:17):
I'm willing to so easily move onto the next dopamine fix.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
It's basically what it is.
Yeah, you ever hear the phrasehoneymoon phase yeah, in a
relationship.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
You know why that is I'm sure it'd be something with
like how much you know chemicalsare released in your brain like
oxytocin, dopamine it's allabout oxytocin.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Oh yeah, when you see that person because, it's new,
it's exciting.
You get an oxytocin hit.
It ends right around thetwo-year mark when most people
break up.
Yeah, right around the two-yearmark Because all of a sudden
you stop getting that hit whenyou see them.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
So I've learned is like when that happens, it's
okay.
Maybe I just need to spicethings up in my relationship my
girlfriend or my marriage,whatever it is right and you can
actually start re-bringing thatback by making something new
and exciting with that person.
Yeah, got it so for sarah, andshe pretends she hates this, but

(38:09):
I always when I see her and Imake a conscious effort to act
like I haven't seen her in along time.
So when I come home from work,yeah it's, I go up right away
and I kiss her hello, yeah, andlike that's those little things
to bring that back and to bringthat excitement back.
Right now she gets a littlemore excited for me to come home
and then I get excited to bearound her.

(38:31):
Yeah that's great, so it's awin-win on that and it ties into
even weight loss and like whyyou start picking up certain
habits.
To go back to my neighbor, it'sI disassociated with him after
that instance.
I don't want to be a part ofthose people because I know life
secret.
The easiest way to do somethingis to hang out with people that
do it.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
So if I want to keep a healthy marriage, I need to
hang out with people who have ahealthy marriage, not hang out
with people who have a healthymarriage that hang out with
people who are talking about thenext best thing.
If I want to stay physicallyfit, it's easy for me to be a
gym owner.
To be physically fit, I'maround people like that all day.
Exactly so it all justcorrelates as to who you hang
out with is what you become andto relate that back to yourself,
you kind of saw that in yourown fields, like the military,

(39:14):
was very mission focused,hands-on, right relatable.
Then he goes into fitness superaddicting because you're around
people that are doing the superaddicting aspect of it.
As far as the bodybuildingtaking to the extreme yeah I'm
sure all the people that you didcompetitions with were all like
that.
Now you're all talking like howcrazy are you with xyz?
Right kind of deal.
So it just takes those averagesand really can make or break

(39:37):
the individual.
You are same with thealcoholism drugs which we hang
out with the morality of thingslike.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I struggle with that, especially when I went through
my um, my second divorce, um, Iwas around a bad group of people
um, drugs, alcohol, otherthings I want to discuss and it
challenged my morals and Icouldn't be around a lot of it
and I was like man, I didn'tknow people did this and you

(40:05):
forget.
There's a lot of weird stuffthat people do in the world and
you may not agree with andeventually that group dwindled
down to just the you know thepeople that really mattered and
that weren't like that but atthe same time, like, if you
surround yourself with that, youget wrapped in.
That's where I was wrapped in,to drugs and drinking and all

(40:26):
the other stuff I was gettinginto.
But again it's.
I gravitated toward thatbecause it was the only thing
that made me feel at that timeand I thought that was happiness
and pleasure.
But now it's different,especially after treatment, like
how I feel and what I love.
Your friend group is veryimportant and the worst thing

(40:48):
that happened with me,especially with PTSD, was I shut
everybody out because I didn'twant anyone to.
I was ashamed of who I was shuteverybody out because I didn't
want anyone to.
I was ashamed of who I was.
I think that was the thebiggest piece to this.
Uh, the story is I didn't wantanybody else to know.
You know it was like my secret.
You know a lot of people didn'tknow I was struggling um
drinking especially.
I moved up here, um I was on alot of medication, um, we'll

(41:11):
dive into that a little bit more, but it it was tough because I
I hid that and I hid it from myfriends, I hid it from my circle
to just kind of be alone andnot burden anyone.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Well, it's, yeah, you bury everything, right?
Yes, you people want to helpand you don't want them helping,
but you want to figure it outyourself.
But then you're struggling andyou don't want people to feel
bad for you.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
And it's like no, no, I'm gonna take care of it.
A good analogy I would say isespecially, I would say, people
struggling with ptsd.
This is something I talkedabout with my my integration
coach.
Um, after my, my recenttreatment I went through was I
was an ice cube that was justmelting away emotionally,
physically, spiritually over thelast 10 years, like before my
treatment I had.
I was at my last drop beforejust being completely gone and I
feel like I've been reformedback in that ice cube.

(42:02):
But I think people don'tunderstand is it's?
It's a slow death and it'smiserable and it's painful in
all aspects and as much as youwant other people to help and
help build you back up, um, youyou just keep melting away and
it didn't matter what otherpeople did for me, um, it almost

(42:24):
accelerated the process becauseI was embarrassed about it how
would you know if someone hasptsd, like if I, if I were to
use my story as an example,right like, how would I be able
to say I suffer from PTSD or not?
Yeah, I'm not a physician, butI'm going to go off based off
things I experienced and, likeeven my wife could point out, is
what one big thing iseverything like you can never

(42:58):
settle down in situations,especially stressful situations.
You're always catastrophizingthings For me.
I have a really bad habit ofpiling things up on semi, like
hoarding in a sense, like I'llhave a pile of random things
here and a pile of random thingshere and it's just chaos and
like that's like what's in mybrain, avoiding a lot of things,
not wanting to be around people, avoiding a lot of things, not
wanting to be around people.
Poor impulse control, becauseif you're struggling with those

(43:21):
things, you're looking forsomething to just feel good,
like quick fix.
Doesn't matter what it is food,drugs, alcohol, porn, whatever
it is.
Whatever that fix is to feelsomething.
I could see that manifestingthere.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
You know, impulse control is a big one, I would
say too, especially for me.
Yeah, it makes me you're makingme like reflect back right and
I never sat with a counselor,never sat with a psychiatrist,
never anything like that.
I, I think I suffered with ptsdbecause you mentioned like
little specific things.
Like for me specifically it wasalcohol.
Yep, I didn't, thank god, Ididn't have an addictive
personality like that was justnot something that was innate

(44:01):
about who I am, but I've thatand other issues like I just
felt myself constantly trying toget that sense of happiness
right and one little tiny thingif it went wrong would set me
off right, right, the world'sending.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
That's it, that's the best way to describe it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
And I have no idea how I got past.
I don't feel any of thatanymore, Like that is, it's all
gone.
I have issues rememberingthings but I don't know if
that's CTE related, whether frommy concussions, or if that's
just trauma I blocked out.

(44:38):
Like I physically like when Isit here and think I have one
memory from third grade and thennothing until sixth grade.
Okay, that's insane for mostpeople.
I talked to my wife and she'slike I remember when I was like
four years old.
I was like how the fuck do youremember four years old?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
So I want to hit on that.
That's how I was up until myrecent treatment.
I couldn't remember what I didthe day before that morning.
I forgot everything about mypast.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
It my speech started getting really but it was day of
, wasn't it?
What do you mean?
So like, for example, today,you forgot yesterday but like I
couldn't remember anything Likeit.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Just, I would get really frustrated and I would
tell Amanda, like I'm like Ican't remember anything, like
what is wrong with my brain.
We would start writing stuffdown and I then I would get
pissed because I couldn't evenremember to write stuff down, um
, and my speech was gettingreally bad, like the fact that I
can do this right now.
You should see all the videos Irecorded prior to my recent

(45:38):
treatment when I was for clientswith dog training.
I'm stuttering, I'm blankingout, I couldn't remember
anything.
I'm definitely going to sharethis stuff eventually, but I
think, as your brain has beendamaged or is going through,
whatever it's going through, ifit's not healed, that's when you

(45:58):
reach that spot where it's like, well, I can't remember this
and that kind of catastrophizes,things and whatever you're
doing during the day, like crap,like what do I do here?
Like, and it just startsbuilding up, building up,
because you keep forgettingthings.
So that's just my personalexperience no, it's, it's very
it.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's cool because we can get into the healing part
right.
So, for me personally.
I think it took to a mentalbreakdown I had when I was
dating my wife, who was mygirlfriend at the time.
We were dating for about twoand a half years, we were
fighting a lot and I had thisgiant I just called it a
quarter-life crisis.
I no joke laid on her apartmentfloor and stared at a ceiling

(46:36):
fan for four and a half hours.
that sounds insane retrospectinglooking at myself doing that
because I just had no idea whatI was going in life or what I
was doing and I was just lost inthis chaos of unnecessary shit
and wasn't making a name fornothing I felt, lost and coming
out of that, I said I need tojust start from scratch.

(46:59):
I broke up with her and I lefteverything, everything I didn't
want to talk to.
I said I'm starting over andI'm rebuilding my life.
Eventually I realized thatsometimes you push away the
people that matter most to youand six months later begged for
her to go back out with me, butas a new person like we never
felt like that again.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Like that was all me, but that as and you bring up a
good point that I've I'veexplained your situation to a
lot of people in my life thatit's tough to go through
something like that, but ithelps the situation, especially
not only for yourself, which isthe priority, but if you're in a
relationship to bringyourselves back together at a

(47:42):
point where you are meshing andyou're not doing this all the
time.
I've done it before, um, and itwas very successful, but then,
because of my tbis, then itwould just go downhill.
But now I'm at this point whereI've gone through it,
especially with Amanda.
That it's very overwhelmingbecause I haven't felt this

(48:02):
connection or felt this way andhave been calm and emotionally
attached with her since mytreatment happened and I had to
go through that rebuilding andletting go of who I was and the
thing like the trauma things Iwas going through to be at this
point.
So you bring up a good point.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
That's a very good thing for people to go through,
but it is very difficult yeah, II stress like for myself and I
talk about me getting over likemy major depressive disorder
right and rewiring my brain.
And I think that's important.
It wasn't like I rewired mybrain, it was repetitive
practice a thousand times a dayfor months, right to get my

(48:41):
brain to start firingdifferently, to have different
circuits, and I already provedmyself I could do that back then
and then it was easy toreplicate later in my life
because I knew how to rewire andget myself to think differently
and be a different person.
And I've talked to sarah andI've talked to a lot of people
in my life and I'm always like,yeah, you can get over
depression.
I don't believe every singleperson that they can get over

(49:03):
being depressed, anxiety.
I think everything's, to asense, curable, but how the hell
do you teach it?
That's what I've alwaysstruggled with when you go to
counseling, because I never wentthat route.
That's what I've alwaysstruggled with when you go to
counseling, because I never wentthat route Traditionally.
How were they trying to teachyou to get over something like
that?
Where does medicine take you?

(49:24):
And then, on the flip side ofthat, is it even possible for me
to teach people the practice Idid?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's a great point.
So I'll use my experience forthis.
Right before I moved up here toLong Island, I was on a bunch.
I got diagnosed with bipolardisorder because they were like
all these things that you'reexperiencing is bipolar disorder
and they get.
The VA gave me antipsychoticsand I started taking those
because I was like, oh well, Iguess this is what I am Right.

(49:53):
And I was like, okay, I feltgood for a little bit after the
first, like few months, and thenall of a sudden it was like a
nightmare and I was taking themedication.
Then it was well, now you gotto take more.
I was like, well, what doesthat solve?
Right?
And then it was meeting withpeople you know social workers,

(50:14):
therapists, whatever, to talkabout my issues.
But every time I'd go in therelike, well, you need to take
more medication, right.
A lot of the speaking pointsthey talk on specifically like,
hey, creating new habits, youknow, if you're feeling this way
with something, take a stepback, take a breath, do this

(50:34):
right.
But some people are so brokeninside that that's they can't
physically do it.
There was people would tell mewhen I was extremely suicidal,
like, just go out for a walk,you think I'm gonna go for a
walk, like I'm out here, likeI'm drinking myself to death,
like I'm, you know, in thedepths of hell mentally, and you
think I want to go outside andwalk, like you know.

(50:57):
Did I do it?
Absolutely?
Did it do anything?
No, so I think it's differentfor everyone.
Whatever that little shift isand repetitive new behaviors,
but a good point that you canget from, like an NA or AA
meeting, is just making it tothe next minute.
What do I need to do to make itto this minute now, the next

(51:21):
hour, the next day, for whateveryou're struggling with and that
you know?
That applies to drinking anddrugs in that context.
But setting small goals andachieving them, those are the
little victories that will addup, that can potentially change
your mindset, especially if youwere going through things I was
like I need to work at doingthis for my business or this for
myself or whatever the case maybe.

(51:41):
Those benchmarks and workingtowards that goal is what kept
your mind off of the otherthings that were.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Do you know why?
Why they do that.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
No.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Really cool.
I actually talked about thisyesterday with an employee.
Because I love.
I mentioned this a lot on thisshow, but I think it's so
important.
The easiest way to get someonehappy is get them within 90% of
reaching a goal.
You get the biggest dopaminehit before you hit a goal.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
So you see professional athletes all the
time.
Same in dog training.
Same in dog training, yes.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
So you look at professional athletes right,
they're at the championship gameand they go in.
The best feeling in the worldis shooting that basket, make it
, buzzer goes off.
What always happens withathletes after that they crash.
Yeah, super depressive, becauseonce the goal gets achieved,
they don't have anything furtherto go for.

(52:34):
It's extremely commonlympicsbecause, like it's not
reoccurring like professionals,like baseball or football is.
So they just get superdepressed once they make it
because the whole lives has beenhit, this one goal right and it
just goes and that goal doesn'tget pushed forward.
So when you have things like aa,like drinking, you said first
do a minute and now you push theminute to a day right, and

(52:56):
you're slowly pushing that framefurther and further and further
ahead.
And every time you get reallyclose to hitting it you get a
super dopamine hit and you'relike, wow, this is great,
exciting.
And then you have to make sureyou push it again, otherwise
you're going to lapse and fallback.
The second you succumb to itand go oh well, it's like, okay,
I'm good now.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
That's when you're going to laugh.
I want to bring up, that's whypeople keep doing bodybuilding
shows.
It's the prep posting online.
Hey, look at me, me, me, lookat all this hard work.
And then it happens it happenedto me.
You do your show and you'relike you binge, you get out of
shape, you don do anything.
Is that?
There's no, there's no goodfeelings anymore with it.

(53:37):
It was that anticipation andthe dopamine hit from all that
hard work.
But then you do the show andyou're on stage for two minutes.
You get last place and you'relike oh crap, um.
But yeah, uh, I'm trying tothink what.
I don't know what you want, adirection you want to take with.
It's just good, because I justlike the fact that that's kind
of exactly what there's meetings.
But yeah, I'm trying to think Idon't know which direction you
want to take with.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
It's just good because I just like.
The fact that that's kind ofexactly what these meetings are
doing is exactly the same thingI've been preaching forever.
It's just move the goalpostLike.
I always use the example forthe gym right.
First it was get to a certainbenchmark of gross, then it was
certain locations and now I'm sogood at goals.
Now I'm thinking billion dollara year company and I'm only

(54:17):
half a percent way there.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
But it doesn't matter that goal is so astronomical.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I'm going to get happier and happier and happier
the closer I get to it, but it'sbig enough.
It will last my lifetime, soit's always going to keep me
satiated and happy.
You bring that back to thepoint of is it possible beyond
that to make a permanent shift?
So maybe you don't need thegoal setting?
I don't know, and this is thisis tough.
So like I'm going to take thesuicide for myself, for example,

(54:46):
me deciding not to kill myselfwas a shift that if I'm not
going to do it, I need another,another answer.
Right, got it.
I didn't turn to things as acoping mechanism.
Instead it was I'm not going topussy out Like that's it.
I'm not doing this, I'm doingsomething else.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
And that's where I feel like a lot of people don't
get it, where they can't fix itthemselves, because they just
reach for something else todistract them.
Or they're reaching for asubstance, or they're putting
the problem onto somebody else.
They don't make a decision andsay, well, no, I fucking have to
do something else because I'mnot doing this.
If that makes sense, how do youteach that?

(55:30):
Or is it just not teachable?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
The person has to want it.
It's almost similar to likepeople hitting rock bottom and
whatever they're at in life.
It's that struggle to rebuildyourself is what makes you that
new person, or whatever the casemay be.
And some people don't gothrough it.
They're comfortable being veryuncomfortable and where they're

(55:53):
at because they're afraid tomake that five degree shift, um,
and I don't again, it's.
Everyone has their own way ofgetting through it.
You may not get it now, you mayget it later, but I don't think
you can teach it.
Someone has to want it badenough and to truly love
themselves enough to to be ableto do that.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, yeah, I really don't have any other response to
that.
I think you're right, so I kindof dive that into now.
What are the other forms oftreatment?
So what does traditionalmedicine give you when you go to
the doctor?

Speaker 2 (56:30):
When I went to the VA with all of my symptoms, it was
oh, you're bipolar, you havePTSD, which I was diagnosed with
before I got out of thesymptoms.
It was oh, you're bipolar, yeah, ptsd, which I was diagnosed
with before I got out of themilitary, not bipolar.
I had PTSD and a TBI diagnosedbefore I got out of the military
, but I wasn't on medication.
So, with my symptoms, ofeverything I was experiencing,

(56:51):
they were like, well, you needto be on antipsychotics because
you're bipolar, you have theseups and downs.
So that's what I took.
Mind you, they just gave memedication.
They were like off you go.
I had no idea what I wassupposed to do, what I was going
to be experiencing, and it justtrapped me in my head.
I was not only a prisonerinside my head, I was a prisoner

(57:13):
in my home.
It was hard for me to leave myhome because the medication was
giving me such bad I think thebest word or term is like
agoraphobia, of like beingoutside, Like when I first moved
here, they just up mymedication and I started having
a tough time just going outside.
Or if I go to the grocery store, it'd take me an hour to get

(57:34):
out of the car Because I didn'teven want to open the door,
because it just felt likeeveryone was watching me.
I was so paranoid it wascausing crazy paranoia for me
too, which really sucked, um.
But you know, with medicationnow, it doesn't address the
underlying issue.
Especially for me with my TBI.
The medication doesn't addressthe underlying issue, especially

(57:55):
for me with my tbi.
The medication doesn't fix mybrain.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Um, and that that was the most frustrating part about
the what I was prescribed soyou get these antipsychotics,
you go back to the doctor, youtell the doctor you're getting
super paranoid.
What happens?

Speaker 2 (58:09):
next I'm gonna tell a pretty sad story.
So I was on my third medication, I believe, and I told my wife
I was like I am not going tomake it.
I would never have been thissuicidal in my life.
I did try taking my life when Idid live in Colorado.
I was in a psych ward for awhile at the peak of the PTSD

(58:30):
and TBI stuff going on.
But I was like I am.
At that point I went to the VA.
A nurse or some type of workerbrought me back to one of the
rooms.
I was in tears.
I'm like I'm going to killmyself.
This medication is killing me.
I don't want to live.
The worker started booking asandals vacation on the phone

(58:54):
while I'm in there with her.
She's giving this person hercredit card number.
I am in tears, like wanting todie in this room and she was
asking me some questions doingthe phone and then she goes like
this to me to pause me whileI'm talking to her so she could
give that person information.
I lost it.

(59:18):
I went off on everybody thesupervisor, I ripped that dude
into shreds and I went in my carand.
I cried my eyes out.
I was like I just want someoneto help me and I remember
calling my you know life coachtherapist at the time, who's

(59:38):
been through very horriblethings at the VA as well, and I
was just crying.
I was like I can't, I'm notgonna make it like no one wants
to help me.
And that's when I actually cameoff all the medication and
really got into dog training atthat point.
But I was still having thoseups and downs.
So that's my experience withthe medication piece.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I've heard horror stories out of the VA.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It's it is such bad care for veterans and for those
like when you talk to, like whenI talk to other medical
professionals are like I don'tknow how you do it there.
It's so bad and it's rampant.
It's unfortunate.
It's like I sacrifice, not justme.
A lot of veterans sacrificed alot of their life for the

(01:00:26):
military and went through somehorrible, crazy experiences, and
to not get good care cominghome it sucks.
You feel left behind.
It's why a lot of veteransstruggle.
Because you're like well, whywould I even go here?

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
like I'm supposed to get taken care of and you're
just, there's no connectionthere with you I feel like every
politician, both sides, comesout and always talks about doing
more for the military yeah Inever see a translation can I
bring up a point?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
so I I this will come up later, but I am starting my
own nonprofit for the treatmentI just went through recently.
But I brought this up in aconversation.
I was like everyone sees theWounded Warrior Project
advertisements on TV, right, hey, it's literally an ASPCA
commercial for veterans.
Oh, this guy lost his legs, helost his arms.

(01:01:14):
We built him a home, which thatis great, and I'm not taking
away from doing it for oneveteran.
There's 40 veterans killingthemselves a day.
They had to just redo thenumbers recently.
40 veterans are committingsuicide a day and we are focused
on the 0.01% and one of thebiggest.

(01:01:34):
Uh, I think they are for profit, I can't remember but, um, but
we're missing everything else.
And we're focusing on thisbecause it it brings emotion to
people, but they're not seeingthe 40 others that are killing
themselves, ruining their lives,their families, their
relationships.
And that is what is frustrating, like we're so focused on this

(01:02:00):
when we're missing the biggerpicture.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
I couldn't agree more .
I feel like veterans are leftout in the dust all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
And be prioritized different things.
I want to use the VA as aspecific example the medical
psychs.
I know the way the doctors work.
They pay them like shit andyou're going to offer a doctor a
shitty salary.
Most people the good doctorsare going to be like why would I
want to work at the VA then ifI could go make six times
private?
So now what's going to happenis they're going to go private

(01:02:28):
and they're going to only beable to give health care to
those that are wealthy enough toafford it, where the veterans
don't have that kind of finances.
So the federal governmentrunning the va is ultimately
doing a disservice for ourveterans and keeping people
employed that are bookingsandals vacations, because those
are the people that are goingto take that low of a wage job.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
And the one thing that frustrated me I can't
remember the name of the, thenewest, uh va secretary, but um,
they're like oh, we built thisbrand new hospital and it's like
no one cares, like no one'staking care of the veterans,
like there's I just had anotherranger buddy two nights ago kill
himself.
So I was, I was with and it'slike those are the guys that

(01:03:11):
need the help, especially inspecial operations.
A lot of people don't realizelike there's only about 3 500
rangers at any given time likeactive and they do like 90 of
the fighting overseas.
It's like people don'tunderstand that dynamic and when
they come home and there's youknow nothing available to them

(01:03:34):
and you have this type of VAcare, you think they care about
a new hospital.
No, they need help justsurviving day to day life and
that's what's frustrating.
You know, that's why I'mcreating what I'm creating to
help other other other veterans.
But but the medication piece,like I said, that's that's where
I ended up with this, andobviously there's more.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
But I want to hear yeah, so you got into the dog
training which I know personally.
That's kind of how you and Imet up, and obviously your, your
wife, working for me, yep, butthat all tied in, what was that
ultimate decision?
Because, yeah, like that droveyou to say, okay, I'm going to
Mexico okay, so we'll get.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
We'll get to that piece.
So I got into dog trainingbecause I ended up getting a dog
from one of my buddies, ericInnes.
He runs Coastline Canine downin Florida and when I was going
through I just got out of thehospital you know being suicidal
and things like that I lost my.
I lost my online trainingbusiness.

(01:04:35):
My car got repossessed and, forpeople to know, I was living in
a very expensive condo.
I just bought a brand newG-Wagon and I was eating out of
a veteran's soup kitchen.
Within three months I losteverything in my life and he
helped me get a dog and that iswhat got me into dog training.
I lived with him for a while.

(01:04:55):
Everything in my life gotrepossessed.
I had no money, I had nothing,but I had a dog and that's what
drew me into dog training frompersonal training and, you know,
bodybuilding, all that otherstuff and that's what I focused
on until I moved up here and youknow that I went through all

(01:05:16):
the stuff at the VA while I wasup here.
I became a dog trainer up herefor normal obedience and pet dog
stuff and started my ownbusiness and then, through that
process, I was still strugglingwith the depression or PTSD, and
that's why I did ketaminetreatment first and that that
saved my life, because I didn'twant to live.

(01:05:39):
I was like I am dying every day.
I am that, that melting icecube and it it stopped all those
bad feelings.
It worked.
I've never I haven't been thatdepressed, but I had no
connection with the world.
It was it's a, it's adissociative, so it.
I didn't feel like Mike Leal, Ijust felt like I was in a video

(01:06:01):
game controlling me from adistance.
And that's what I wasstruggling with with the most,
because I couldn't be emotional,I didn't have empathy and all I
could do was train dogs andfocus on dogs and I ended up
signing.
My one of my buddies was on SeanRyan show, cody Alford.
Him and I have been friends foryears and he went to Ambio Life

(01:06:21):
Sciences in Mexico and didIbogaine and 5-o d, 5meo, dmt to
help with his tbi and his ptsd.
And after seeing that, joerogan episodes about it and more
sean ryan episodes.
Sean ryan went through it aswell and one of his buddies was
there.
When I was down there I waslike I have, like I have to get

(01:06:44):
this done because I want my lifeback, so that's what I just
recently did was itnerve-wracking reaching out
talking about it?

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
or was you at the point like I, I was tried
everything, anything I was likeI just I was like I went into
this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I was like I want my life back.
I deserve to live, I deserve aquality of life.
I watched all my friends Iactually have had a few military
friends go through it and itliterally saved their lives.
They were literally goingthrough the same thing I was
going through and, um, I, I justmade that decision and went and
that's why I just got back onsaturday yeah, super, super

(01:07:21):
fresh yes so where was it inmexico?

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
what did the experience show like when?
When you showed up?
That would be all the questionsI would have, cause you're
going to a foreign country.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, so, um, the houses that Ambio have um, are
just across the border inTijuana.
It's about like a 30 minutedrive from the San Diego airport
.
So it was actually really easygoing in and out of Mexico,
which was great but which isgreat.
But you're in a good spot.
You're on the beach it's reallynice to have some pictures of
it but you're there with a groupabout there's supposed to be 11

(01:07:56):
, but only nine made it andthere's a bunch of medical staff
there.
You have your coach, yourcoaches there as well that have
been through the experience ofboth Ibogaine and DMT, and it's
very well monitored.
It's not like there's a lot oflike retreats where it's like
very, you know, like underground, I guess you could say.
But this is medicallysupervised.

(01:08:19):
They have a lot of staff onhand nurses, doctors and things
like that to make sure that thetreatment is good for you.
You got to do an EKG before yougo.
I did blood work as well.
My blood work was great, but,yeah, it's monitored very well
and the staff was justabsolutely incredible.
I'm going to dive deeper, but Iwanted to see if you had any

(01:08:42):
other questions.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
It makes me happier.
It's right over the border.
Yeah, because you know they'repulling from us residents yeah,
to work there like nurses,doctors.
Yeah, I'm sure it was.
Didn't feel like you're showingup to the cartel, right, right,
and they have all ak-47s yeah,you're walking, you're like
where the hell am I?
Yeah, like that's what youthink about when you think about
these specific yeah, yeah soit's a group of people.

(01:09:05):
Did you get to talk and hangout with the other people going
through the treatment?

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Yeah, so that was the great part is everyone's there.
You meet at a hotel and it's sofunny looking back because
everyone's there and they havejust this blank stare.
All of us had it.
It's very similar.
It's like you're lost in yourhead, you're lost in your
thoughts and you're just waitingfor some healing.
And there's a lot of group talk, like group circle talks.

(01:09:32):
You know you meet together.
The first thing we did when wegot to the house was we shared
all of our stories and, man,like there's a couple military
guys there, joe, the head forthe retreat.
He was an ex-Special Forces andDelta Force operator and I felt
like such a good connectionwith him because we have a very

(01:09:53):
similar background and placeswe've been and things we've done
.
So that made me feel verycomfortable and we shared all of
our stories, including Joe'sstory, and Joe resonated with me
because we both started losingour mind.
You know he did a lot of combat.
He was a medic in delta forceand you know went through a lot,

(01:10:14):
lost a lot of um people wouldcall like battle buddies, um
dogs that are on his deployment.
You know military working dogsand that stuff can be traumatic.
Um, and it came out at the endof his career and I was like
that's just like me.
I felt that with him andeveryone had their own things

(01:10:36):
sexual trauma, addictions.
It was a good mix, right.
But they do have differenthouses tailored to specific
things like trauma and thingslike that.
In one house, a lot of thedisabilities, like I said, ms
and Parkinson's.
At another house things likethat.

(01:10:57):
If you do have some type ofsubstance abuse issue, they do a
whole different program for you, like to detox and things like
that.
So that made me feel reallygood and you know, all of our
stories were great.
It was nice to see people comeout of their shells because you
could tell they were so brokenand it was nice to like.
I felt like that because Idon't like talking to people and

(01:11:17):
I was just diarrhea of themouth because I bottled in so
much, and to have someone therethat's been through the same
experiences as me, I was justlike let it out and it felt so
good because I I missed humanconnection and you feel like you
got to experience that becauseyou're around people that went
through similar things, that yousee a little more sense of
connection with them right yeahlike a really cool, not cool.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
I don't know why I said cool, interesting would be.
You associate with people andyou feel more of a connection
than when you both experiencetrauma.
Trauma is the world's biggestconnector with people, above
everything else, which is socrazy to say out loud.
Right Like you, just feel thistotal sense of like.
I really understand thisbecause they went through the
exact same scenario I did, but,going into the treatment that

(01:12:05):
you did, I haven't heard of anyof it until we spoke literally
10 minutes ago.
So, this is all new to me, andI'm sure it's new to a lot of
other people out there.
Exactly what are you taking?
What is it?
Where does it come?

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
from Got it.
So I'll start with Ibogainefirst.
It comes from what's called theIboga root and it's classified
a little different in thepsychedelic realm.
I believe you know some forsome of the things that we're
talking to us about, because alot of psychedelics are
dissociative.
This one is not.
It is very out of body or I'dsay inner body that's a bad word

(01:12:42):
to say.
It's more inner body that itworks on and I'm going to use
the study that you and I talkedabout first to kind of talk
about that before I get into thetreatment aspect of it.
But the there was a group of 30special operations operators
that went through this program.
They had was what was it?
Tbis, ptsd, some had substanceabuse issues as well and they

(01:13:08):
did scans of their brain,obviously blood work, things
like that.
That whole group went throughthe treatment of Ibogaine and
5-MeO-DMT.
All of their brain scans cameback completely healed from all
of their TBIs, as if they neverhappened.
Completely healed from all oftheir TBIs um to as if they

(01:13:30):
never happened, as well asreversed age their brain by
about one to five years.
And some of the guys that wentthrough the program Joe, who was
the head down there for my trip.
He was one of those originalguys that went through and is
actually.
His wife is a neuroscientistthat's working on this as well,
so it's really cool that he hasthat um in his life, but it
helps repair all the brokenpieces in your brain.

(01:13:53):
I'm going to talk about myexperience with it.
They give you a dosage ofIbogaine.
It's in a pill form.
It's four pills within an hour.
I want to say it is and thelast pill they do with like
honey and it's cracked open, soit's like hits you like that.
But after we took all the pills,we went in and there's a nice

(01:14:15):
big yoga room downstairs andthere's beds set up with the EKG
and what was it?
Ivs to make sure you're stillhydrated, and they hook you up
to everything.
You start laying down on yourbeds.
There's a music playing.
It's very intense.

(01:14:36):
I forget the name of it, butsounds like like a big rubber
band getting strung very hardand there's mirrors there to
like look at yourself while theexperience is about to happen or
is happening.
I just wanted to ride this thing, so I was like I'm putting my
mask on and laying down, andthat's what I did, and one of
the things they tell you that'sgoing to start happening is

(01:14:58):
you're going to start havingclicking sounds in your brain
and really crazy feelings inyour brain.
Brain and really crazy feelingsin your brain.
And, man, that was the mostincredible part is, once the
medicine hit, I could feel theclicking start in both parts of
my brain, back here and then uphere in the front, from the side

(01:15:21):
of my head to the front of myhead, and it felt like a rush of
electricity and warmth andhealing.
Through that whole process itfelt like just pops, like it was
almost like someone wasplugging pieces of my brain back
in and turning them on.
That started happening and Ilaid down on that bed.
I put the blindfold over myface and my eyes are closed,

(01:15:45):
just like this, and computerscreens just literally appeared
in front of my face with a bunchof numbers, very vibrant colors
, the apple calculator that'slike black and orange.
That popped up and it was likesplattered in different paint
colors of black and white.
I will remember this numberbecause it was just in my head

(01:16:05):
from that experience.
It was 1,219,800.
It kept popping up.
I don't know why.
Maybe I'm going to find outwhat that means later in my life
Hopefully it's in my bankaccount, but that kept popping
up and then, once those finishedin the visuals it started

(01:16:26):
becoming pictures of my wife andI and it was exactly everything
I needed.
It I felt so connected.
It made me miss her.
Um, it was a lot of pictures,like I was telling you before,
of like our wedding.
Um, it's not, it wasn't like afull on picture, like a
photograph you could see, but itwas the outlines of everything
and you can make it out indetail, but it was.

(01:16:46):
I just remember vividly.
It was blue horizontal lines,um, and you know I saw us in it.
And then, um, a lot of thosepictures came through, pictures
of family, people that passedaway, um, and it was very
beautiful.
Um, I only had two instanceswhere it was.
I had dark entities comethrough, um, where it was like a

(01:17:08):
dark face trying to pushthrough like a like saran wrap.
That's the best I guess youcould say it.
But, um, like I describedearlier, like you can kind of
control it, so I would skip thatand go to something else, and
whatever popped up was random.
So you know, good things thatkeep coming up.
And then I finally faced thetwo dark entities and that they

(01:17:30):
just looked around and thendisappeared.
That those visuals lasted aboutan hour and a half to two hours
, I want to say.
And then, once that was done,it was just being stuck inside
my head with the healing.
Everyone was throwing up nearbyand I wasn't throwing up yet
the last pill, I think, that wasin my gut exploded and burst

(01:17:54):
open and it felt like I wantpeople to envision this.
It was like flowers of, likegreen and white energy just
shooting through my whole bodyand it was like the most
overpowering healing feeling Icould imagine.
And that's when I startedthrowing up.
So my, my experience lasted alittle bit longer than everybody

(01:18:16):
else.
I was like the second to lastperson to leave the room once
everything was done.
But you go into what's calledlike a taxia, where you don't
have control over your limbsvery well.
There's people down there tohelp you, bring you to the
bathroom and, uh, make sureyou're good because you can't
walk.
This is not a party drug likeyou never want to.
Just no, there's no, there's nojoy out of the experience after

(01:18:39):
, I promise you.
So um, once that whole um wasdone, you go through what's
called a gray day and you are sodrained.
I was in bed for like 24 hoursafter that.
It was nice because my bedoverlooked the beach, but you're
drained, you're still kind ofdizzy, but it was such a healing

(01:19:03):
moment because it just feltlike everything inside of me was
just flushed out, likephysically, mentally and
spiritually, and like the theslate was clean and my brain was
healed, like I could feel thehealing that happened through
that.
Um, any questions on that?
no, I think it's wild okay soonce that gray day was done, I

(01:19:24):
did did go through a Reikisession after.
Believe me, I'm one that's like, yeah, that stuff's BS
Definitely made an impact.
I could feel the energy, thehealing it was like heat almost
of the person doing it to me.
Even though it's touchlessthey're not touching you I could
feel the energy moving aroundme.

(01:19:46):
Um, as they were doing it and Iremember I was still kind of
tripping out from the ibogaineso I'd be laying back and then,
like jerk back up, they'd haveto grab my head and pull me back
down, but it was.
It felt really good.
I felt good after.
So, definitely interested.
If someone does that, I woulddefinitely do it again.
But once that was complete, thenthe next day was 5-MeO-DMT man.

(01:20:13):
This was what I was lookingforward to the most and the most
nervous about.
The original molecule comesfrom the back of a frog, from
its sweat glands, so that's howpeople would discover what it
did.
They have now been able tosynthesize it, so you don't have
to obviously make a toad bestressed out to get the DMT off

(01:20:37):
of it.
But this was the one I was mostlooking forward to and they
brief you on what's going tohappen.
You inhale it through avaporizer and they tell you in
the beginning like some peoplewill scream they might get

(01:21:00):
violent, like you.
Like different things happen.
Everyone's different.
You know through the experience.
But to be open and let themedicine do its thing.
So they said if you do, you gettwo doses.
You're going to know if youneed the second dose.
That's what they said they'relike, you're going to know.
So I went down, I went second inmy group and the first person

(01:21:21):
came up.
That was like I could tell itwas a lot for them and I was
like I was a little nervous butI was like, no, I've got to ride
this out.
So I went down and I did myfirst hit and I laid back and it
was very peaceful, very mildvisuals on the side.
I could tell they were holdingme down, whether it was my wrist
and my chest on that one.

(01:21:41):
And then I came back and I waslike, oh, I need that second one
.
I took the biggest hit of thisthing.
I went, I sucked that thingdown and you count, you put your
blindfold over or your mask andyou count back from 10 and they
lay you back on the mattress.

(01:22:02):
I hit that mattress and Iexplained this before.
It was like I went and I wasmeeting God.
It was the most beautiful sound, this angelic tone.
It just sounded like angels,just a tone that only like an
angel or something spiritualcould produce the most beautiful

(01:22:24):
amazing colors.
The most beautiful amazingcolors.
Like if you took myconsciousness and brought it
down to a single focal point oflike a pin, I could see, like
the galaxy and what, like everyemotion of happiness, love, joy,
excitement that has eluded mefor the last 10 years.
Every breath I took filled meup with that.

(01:22:46):
I could feel it literallypulsing into my hands, like head
to toe.
I'm like I'm getting likegoosebumps about it now, because
I remember how that feeling wasand it was like filling my soul
and my life, my life force,back into me and I was just
taking these massive breaths andI could feel them holding my
arms down and I just felt sohappy and I was like, oh my God,

(01:23:09):
I like thank you, you know it'swhatever.
If you have a higher power,whatever your belief system is
like, this is going to let youknow they exist For sure.
As I was coming back toconsciousness, I remember
grabbing my chest and I wascrying so hard and sobbing Like

(01:23:33):
I've wanted to feel this for thelast 10 years of my life, and I
feel love, I feel joy and itwas very overwhelming, very
overwhelming and very healing,which was the most important
part I know.
It healed all those brokenparts of me.
And for those of you don't know, dmt is only released in your

(01:23:56):
body when you're born and whenyou die.
So this, what they call is theGod molecule, resets your whole
system and when I tell you Ifeel, I feel completely reset,
like I began, flushed me out.
The dmt filled my soul andspirit back to how I feel now,
which is amazing explain how youfeel almost a week later my

(01:24:20):
mental clarity is as if I was inhigh school.
I had a really tough time withstuttering and my speech and
memory.
That has made me feel reallygood to be able to actually
articulate things and talk.
I haven't been able to do thisfor years and that would give me
anxiety and be depressed aboutit.
Right, I feel a connection withmy wife like I love her, I want

(01:24:42):
to be with her.
Nothing we're doing isstressful, like even going out
and walking the dogs.
I'm like like man, like myknees hurt, like I stress about
it, like I enjoy doing things.
Now I feel like a human beingand I'm happy.
I'm smiling.
I was smiling on the car rideover here.
I'm gonna smile on my way home,you know, and all of the things

(01:25:03):
that I was struggling with aregone and I know, like you know,
some people like well, it'sprobably the high of it or no,
like I feel, like I was, youknow, a freshman in high school
and like I'm experiencing theworld and learning and it's
great and it.
After this experience.
I had two goals for it, like myintentions going in, and one

(01:25:26):
was to feel love again and to beopen and to love life and love
myself specifically, and I feelthat my second was I want a
direction in what I wanted to dowith the rest of my life.
I love working with dogs, Ilove helping people, but now
this pushed me in a direction.
Like I am, I am willing to putmy dog training business on the

(01:25:47):
back burner to go help otherveterans go through this,
because I don't want them tostruggle like I did for 10 years
.
So that's kind of what themedicine did for me.
Some people do go back forfollow-up sessions every couple
years or annually, depending onwhat they want.
You know how you can gowhenever, but for me it's like I

(01:26:07):
don't have a desire to go backand do it.
They said like the medicinewill call you back when you,
when it's time.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
But my goal is to get as many people through this as
possible, especially veterans inthe community that I was from
and how do you expect to helpget the veterans there, like
what's the ultimate play to helpbring them into the life and
direct them?

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
There's a lot of nonprofits that exist to help
veterans go down there and payfor their trip.
The most expensive part isgoing down there.
It's anywhere between $6,500and $10,000 for a trip,
depending on where you go.
There's two main spots that doit.
Excuse me, I want to start anonprofit, which I already
submitted all my paperwork to anattorney today.
With all the donations fromthat, we have an investment

(01:26:56):
strategy to keep refunding thewhole nonprofit in perpetuity
without having to take moredonations to try to get more
people through over time.
So that's kind of how I set itup and I have the whole
financial plan there, becauseyou know me, I'm a nerd with
investments in crypto and thingslike that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Why not tie it into your dog business though?

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
Great.
So the second part to thenonprofit would be helping
veterans become dog trainersThrough some of my other friends
my buddy at Coastline Canine,eric.
He actually got approved forvocational rehab, which is like
you know how veterans can usetheir GI Bill to go to college
and they get like a housingallowance right.
He has that so that if you movedown there and want to go train

(01:27:43):
dogs with him you would getpaid to work there and your
housing allowance for three orfour years, whatever it is, but
giving giving veterans theopportunity to do something
where there's some type of goal,something like a way to take
care of yourself and a dog so ifI was a veteran listening to
this right, how?

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
how would I get a hold of you to get help?

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
Right, well, big thing is like you can follow me
on social media, you can emailme, whatever you know my stuff
will be up.
I'm sure I'll give you thelinks and things like that.
But I went through Ambeo LifeSciences for my treatment.
If someone just was like, hey,I need to do this treatment,
there's a bunch of nonprofitsthat do help.
I know Vets is one of them,sisters in Arms is another, and

(01:28:31):
one of my friends that just wentthrough her treatment.
She gave me a whole list soI'll give that to you once we
leave.
But if someone wants to getahold of me, dm me, facebook,
message me, whatever the casemay be, because I know like this
is my calling and I've longedto help people again and if
wants to talk, they can talk.

(01:28:51):
I had two people call meyesterday.
They're like I need to do thistreatment, this is what I'm
going through, and I was likeall right, like you know, here's
what I know.
You know, hopefully myinformation helps you and you
make that decision yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Where do you think the future is for this treatment
?
Where do you think it's headed?

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
So here's my thing with it.
It's you know, the other thingwe need to talk about was, like
a substance abuse issues and howthis helps with that.
Some of the stories they talkedabout where people were been on
50 to 80 Oxycontin a day,fentanyl, heroin, like all that
you know it doesn't even matterany drug, but the opioids are
definitely the tough ones.

(01:29:28):
Um, that it completely reducedall withdrawal symptoms and
reset all of their receptors toas if they've never done that
stuff before.
And I would say the majority ofpeople I think it's 80% of
people don't relapse after thefirst uh treatment and it's like
a 97% rate of success ofsobriety after a second

(01:29:50):
treatment for any substanceabuse issue.
And I don't I don't think bigpharma likes the fact that they
can't prescribe, like suboxone,mesothrone, things like that to
people that may be struggling,because that's, you know, a lot
of money for those people.
And I'm hoping, through all ofour experiences, all the studies

(01:30:13):
like I mean testimonials, thatthis stuff does get approved to
be done stateside.
I know Texas and Colorado haverecently been given the goead
for like studies with it.
Um, but just seeing even thestanford study, like that's more
than enough for just veteransto really take a look at this

(01:30:35):
and explore other options versusthe pharmaceutical route yeah,
I mean, times are changing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
You see it right now.
As much as people like, don'tlike rfk right, he's disrupted
big pharma yeah, to the extreme.
So I think there's ever a timenow to this treatment gets
pushed through it's.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
It's now there's no money in healthy people that's
that's the issue.
Um, that's why you know, evenwhen I'll give this example,
even when I with dogs that Itrain, a lot of them are on
anti-anxiety meds, ssris,whatever the case may be and I
tell the owners I'm like you'reputting a Band-Aid over a deeper

(01:31:16):
issue, and what happens?
I get all of those dogs offmedication by teaching them how
to be a dog, and it's nodifferent than human beings.
Hey, I've got to teach youcertain things.
Can there be instances ofactual physical damage to the
brain?
Absolutely, but some peopleneed that kick in the butt of
like, hey, like you're a personhere's, here's how we start

(01:31:38):
feeling things, here's how westart taking care of ourselves
and, um, they have to want it,you know I mean a landmark.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
I'm gonna use this in quotation studies.
They did a landmark study ofover 125,000 participants, so a
big end value showed thatworking out outperforms the
leading SSRIs for depression.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Oh 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
That in and of itself should be eye-opening.
Why aren't we going to thedoctor or psychiatrist,
psychologist and thenprescribing the gym?

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
That should be where we start first yeah, I, I
completely agree, because evenmy experiences like I would go
into, you know, those types ofoffices with those people and
they're like, oh well, you needto be on this now.
Now you need to be on this andI needed this.
To counteract this versus like,was I going to the gym?
Yes, I was still going, butlike I had, I actually had like

(01:32:27):
a brain damage, you know, andthey weren't even looking at
that, like that was in my file,and they're like, oh, we'll just
keep piling all this stuff on.
No one was like, hey, let's trythese things to help repair
your brain, right, like there'snothing like that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
It's just oh well, you're depressed, oh, you need
this now I see it here it'sdoctors tell clients to stop
working out because of pick astupid reason oh yeah, spin the
wheel.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
It's gonna be up there like whatever the wheel of
a stupid reason, yeah, and it'sI.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
I really want to don't do a disservice for the
medical community because I knowpeople who become doctors.
I want to do it for the rightreason, like my whole family is
doctors.
I think where the really thepitfall lies and I think this is
a systemic us issue is doctorsget sued so much.
They have to make decisionslike that because if 0.5 percent

(01:33:18):
of people don't feel better,they're going to get sued and
lose a medical license, butbecause people just take things
to the freaking extreme.
So maybe the real issue isn'tthe doctors, it's the people
that go to the doctors to lookfor stupid, freaking reasons to
sue them and then they get powerand they take it out of
everyone else.
So it's a never-piling systemof lawsuits tied in with

(01:33:39):
pharmaceuticals paying theirback pocket.
Crazy thing like looking intopediatricians right, it's not
that pediatricians get paid for,like get children getting
vaccines, it's they're notallowed to see patients.
That don't get all the vaccines.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
I heard that recently , yeah, so that's insane.
Who the hell is dictatingwhether or not, they can take
care of a kid.
There was a recent one.
What was it?
Someone?
Someone said their practice hadto be vaccinated to a certain
point so that way they could getpaid, or whatever the case may
be they get reimbursed yeah, toreimburse for yeah.
And I'm like it's unfortunatebecause in the capitalistic type

(01:34:21):
of society you have to keeppatients sick, you have to keep
having them come back and bygiving them all these things all
the time I disagree.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
I think that's more of a socialistic Okay yeah,
right.
So the state or the federalgovernment is telling somebody
you need to be at a certainlevel.
Everything was private.

Speaker 2 (01:34:44):
Well, if someone's making a lot of money from a
pharmaceutical company andthey're like, hey, let's say a
thing of this.
Well, if someone's making a lotof money from a pharmaceutical
company and they're like, hey,we need you to keep giving this
stuff or else your pay gets cutoff, you know, or you lose this
stipend, or whatever the casemay be, if there's option A that
heals me and option B thatdoesn't heal me keeps me out of
medicine and both are privateand more people start going to
the option that heals them.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
They're going to get further and put the other one in
the business.
It's the same thing with whatwe do.
People come here because theyfeel better and they go and tell
their friends.
Ultimately, that's how we stayin business.
I could be a gym that chargesless and they don't get more and
I don't teach people how towork out and then they start
burning through and it's harderfor me to retain and refer
because people don't see results.
It's more of just teachingpeople how to get better and

(01:35:29):
better and better, and that hasto be a true 100% capitalistic
society to help ultimately getthe better product.
This would be proof If you saidI'm going to spend 10 times the
amount on this treatment, right, instead of going to them.
They'll have more funding.
They'll be able to get moreadvertising out.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
They'll be able to see more people.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
But because it's not that way.
The government has to approvethem to start studying.
Right has to get involved.
What are you going to end upwith?
It's going to take forever.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yeah, but I mean that's the thing too.
It's what you're running intonow with just treatment in
general.
Like I think they use theexample in an ambio where it's
like you know why would itbenefit big pharma to get
someone off opioids?
Like if they could just be onSuboxone for their whole life?
You know, $6,000 a year for apill that probably costs like a

(01:36:18):
penny, and you know that.
Why would they want people tobe healthy?
It's frustrating, like I thinkso many people don't live a
quality of life.
I think nutrition is the onething that I I mean I know you
guys are big on this like mostpeople don't know how to eat you
know what kills people morepoor diet or poor or poor diet

(01:36:39):
or lack of exercise kills morepeople than alcoholism than lack
of movement and mental healthlike suicide by far.
Right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
Insane, and we focus on everything else and not the
number one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
Well, everyone wants the quick fix for that, like the
Ozempics, the weight loss drugs, but that doesn't fix bad
nutrition.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
you know it's frustrating yeah, tie that in
with the lack of education fornutrition.
That would teach our kids andhow.
No one knows how to eat anddoctors don't even learn
nutrition and that was the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
And like I, when I ran my own business, and like I
was, I was self-taughteverything nutrition wise and I
had.
You know, I put people on stageat like three percent body fat
and people like, well, whatdrugs did they use?
What did?
I'm like they just ate the samehealthy things of a balanced
diet every day and I justadjusted here and there.
They still had cheat meals,they still had these things.

(01:37:42):
But like, if you just stayconsistent, eating these same
things, you're gonna feel, feelbetter.
If you're in a marriage, yoursex life is probably going to be
better.
There's a lot of things thatpeople don't think about that
nutrition can do for youLongevity being the big one, I
want to have a good heart so Ican run around with my kids.
I want to be able to go onwalks with my wife.

(01:38:03):
I will be the first to admit Ihad a really bad time binge
eating, especially when I lose alot of weight, and I would eat
like what is it like 12?
Like I was doing it recentlytoo, before treatment.
Like I would just go and eat adozen donuts like three times a
week and I would binge out onMcDonald's, but then I wouldn't
eat for like three or four days.

(01:38:24):
But that was that, was mymental health messed up from
trauma and things like that.
That was just my dopamine hit.
But I knew because obviously mybackground in fitness, I was
like, well, if I just don't eatfor a few days I can just fast
it all out.
But I always stayed.
I stay the same way.
I'm 211 or 210 all the timeEvery time I take a shower.

(01:38:44):
Amanda will be like what areyou weigh 21?
All the time.
Every time I take a shower,amanda will be like what are you
weighing 211?
Because I step on it it's everyday 211, 210.
But there's no secret as longas you're making healthy choices
and working with someone that'seducated on that, you can live
a better life.
And what is it?
Fitness is medicine.
So is the food?

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
I couldn't agree more , man, so I'm going to ask the
final two questions I askeveryone, first one being, if
you were to summarize this inone or two sentences, what would
be your take-home message topeople?

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
Keep an open mind to other things that exist to help
not only yourself but yourfamily and love yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
I love that.
And the second question how canpeople find you get a hold of
you?

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
So I have my Instagram.
My Instagram it's Mike, MikeLeo.
Um, there's a picture of mewith a dog I was training.
And I do have my my businesspage.
It's North shore pause L I.
Um, it's me with the picturewith the dog.
And then email is Mike at Northshore pausecom.
Um, you can DM me, text, DM me,text me on any of those

(01:39:48):
platforms anytime, and I'm morethan happy to have a
conversation with anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:39:53):
Thank you, guys, for listening to this week's episode
of health and fitness redefined.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and share the show
with a friend, with a loved one,for those that need to hear it.
And, ultimately, don't forgetfitness is medicine.
I'll see you next time.

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