August 28, 2025 • 45 mins
Running isn't a punishment - it's an opportunity to discover what you're truly capable of. In this revealing conversation, host Anthony Amen (a self-proclaimed running hater) sits down with veteran running coach Jason Fitzgerald to explore the transformative power of running for both body and mind.
Jason, who founded Strength Running and has coached for 15 years, shares his own journey from running-averse kid to dedicated coach. "When I first started running, I was not very good at it and I also hated it too," he admits, providing hope for anyone who currently dreads lacing up their running shoes.
The discussion dives deep into practical training approaches for both beginners and experienced runners. Jason explains the crucial difference between aerobic and anaerobic running, how training varies between distances, and why every runner should incorporate strength training regardless of their goals. His recommendation to "sandwich" runs between dynamic warm-ups and post-run strength exercises offers an actionable blueprint for injury prevention.
What truly sets this episode apart is the exploration of running's psychological benefits. While a weightlifting set might require intense focus for seconds, running demands mental fortitude for hours. "Mental toughness is the ability to solve problems constructively without panicking," Jason explains, noting that this resilience transfers to all areas of life. The conversation reveals how running teaches us to push beyond self-imposed limitations – whether that's running more miles than you thought possible or finally breaking through plateaus in other fitness pursuits.
Whether you're a dedicated runner looking to improve or someone who has always avoided running, this episode provides valuable insights that might just change your perspective. As Jason concludes, "Running is not necessarily as hard as you might think it is. If you give it a little time and approach it strategically, you can become a much better runner than you think you can be."
Learn More at: www.Redefine-Fitness.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is Health and Fitness Redefined, brought to
you by Redefined Fitness.
Hello and welcome to Health andFitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we got another great
episode for all of you.
Today, Super excited to talkabout my least favorite topic,
that is, running.
(00:24):
So for those that do or do notknow me, if I am running it
means I'm being chased fromzombies.
Please run away with me.
That's the only time you'llever catch me running in my
tracks.
I'm just playing.
I heard he's from Boston, so Ihad to give him some slack.
Anyway, without further ado,welcome to today's show, jason.
Jason, it's a pleasure to haveyou on today.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wow, anthonyony, thank you for the lukewarm
welcome, absolutely, I got you Iknow we were talking offline
before we started.
You're from long island, I'mfrom boston.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're going to talk about a topic you don't love, so
this is going to be good it'sfunny because, like my whole
staff, I just always send themreasons about why they shouldn't
run.
That's like everything in ourprivate group.
Me, I'm like this is anotherreason why you don't run this,
another reason why and maybeit's just because I absolutely
suck at it, so that's why Idon't like doing so.
(01:18):
Maybe actually I should conquermy own fears of running and
hire you as a coach to help meget better, because I am the
world's worst runner in theworld.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, Anthony, when I first started running, I was
not very good at it and I alsohated it too.
In fact, before I startedrunning, I remember track and
field week in school and I waslike the 110 pound kid throwing
the shot put because youcouldn't catch me in any single
running event.
I hated it.
(01:47):
I couldn't be caught deadrunning.
And look at me now.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'll give you an example Prior to me.
I always mentioned, like priorto my accident and me getting
involved in working outwhatsoever.
I was 15 years old.
I had the same problem as you.
I was really tall and thin, nomuscle, and I ran a 15-17 mile.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, that's not the most competitive mile, but lots
of room for improvement.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Pretty much all the improvement.
I could have walked andprobably done better, even
though I was trying to run, Idon't know.
Tell me a little bit about howyou got involved in being a
running coach.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I've been a running coach now for 15 years.
I've been a runner myself forabout 27 years.
I was the kid who rancross-country indoor and outdoor
track all four years of highschool.
I went to Connecticut Collegeand competed there for all three
seasons over those four yearsof high school.
I went to Connecticut Collegeand competed there for all three
seasons over those four years,and I just kept training after
(02:49):
college and I just knew that Iloved this sport.
I wanted to keep competing, Iwanted to test myself in some of
those longer distances and Ialso knew that I wanted to work
somewhere in the running space,and a long time ago.
I wanted to work somewhere inthe running space, and a long
(03:09):
time ago that either meant I gotto go be a pro runner or I need
to go be either a college coachor perhaps a coach of
high-level pro athletes, and Ihave done neither of those
things.
I was never a pro runner oreven close to being a pro runner
, but I found out a way to beinvolved in the running
community In 2010,.
I started strengthrunningcom,started coaching 2016, I started
(03:33):
the Strength Running Podcast,and it's just a sport that sort
of captured my imagination fromwhen I was a kid.
I think one of the things thatI love about it is that, unlike
team sports like basketball.
So my first love was basketball.
Unfortunately, I stoppedgrowing after middle school and
everyone else kept growing alittle bit.
We never shared the sameproblem, anthony, of me being a
(03:55):
tall, skinny guy.
I was always the short, skinnyguy, but I had to abandon my
first love of basketball.
But I fell in love with justimproving, getting better, and I
found out that, unlike teamsports, running is something
where, much like weightlifting,you get a lot of value and a lot
(04:17):
of progress and great feelingsof just that personal
improvement from your own work.
And I just found the more workthat I put in, the more value I
got out of the sport, the betterI became.
I didn't have to relynecessarily on teammates.
You know we didn't lose a gamebecause coach didn't put me in.
It was because I didn't run ashard as I could, and so I really
(04:41):
loved that aspect of running.
That's what made me fall inlove with the sport.
I always knew I wanted to workwith runners in some capacity
and I'm just really gratefulthat I figured out a way to do
it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So what is strength running?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Good question.
Strength running is a coachingand media business, I guess is
the most simple way to describeit.
Coaching and media business, Iguess, is the most simple way to
describe it.
So, yes, we have trainingprograms and coaching services
for runners who want to getbetter.
That's our whole kind of NorthStar.
We exist to help runnersimprove, to elevate their
performances and help them withany goal they might have Not
(05:19):
necessarily running faster, butmaybe staying healthier and
preventing more injuries orbeing more consistent, or just
training more or potentiallyrunning a longer race than you
might've ever run before.
So strength running isdefinitely the coaching side of
things, but we also have thestrength running podcast and the
(05:39):
strength running YouTubechannel, which also make it a
media business as well, and sowe we work with a variety of
different brands on thoseproperties and really just love
bringing runners you know thekind of actionable advice I sort
of wish I had, you know, when Iwas a young runner and just
searching for training advice,searching for, you know,
(06:00):
examples and models of othersuccessful runners who have been
, you know, really good atachieving their potential and
sort of bringing that knowledgeto you know, your everyday adult
runner.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and let's talk about that advice specifically.
And I'm going to get there areally quirky way.
So, when I hear strengthrunning, this is where my brain
goes, and maybe it's because I'mjust in this industry too long,
and maybe it's because I'm justin this industry too long.
I think anaerobic sprintsbecause it's more muscular,
based and quick, without oxygen,whereas, like your, long
distance runs are your aerobic.
So this is the point I said mybrain goes.
(06:35):
So I think that's the place Iwant to start, which is what is
the difference?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
for those that probably don't know the
difference between an anaerobicrun and an aerobic run, Well,
can I first say, Anthony, I lovethe fact that I named my
business Strength Runningbecause it's like a Rorschach
test.
Everyone kind of sees whateverthey want to see in the name.
It's like, oh, you're aweightlifting coach that also is
(07:00):
a runner.
Well, no, not quite.
Or, oh, this is the anaerobicside of things.
Well, not quite.
To be honest, I purchasedstrengthrunningcom as a domain
name in 2007, simply because Ithought it sounded cool, but in
hindsight it's worked out to bea wonderful brand name.
It really just means let's bestrong runners in every capacity
(07:21):
.
Yes, let's have a strongaerobic system.
Let's have strong muscles,let's be, you know, strong
psychologically and have acertain amount of mental
toughness.
So that strength is somethingthat I think can be applied to
almost any area of our training.
But for the differences betweenaerobic and anaerobic running,
(07:42):
it's basically the differencebetween running with oxygen and
without oxygen, and that markerthat divides aerobic and
anaerobic running is yourlactate threshold.
If you're beyond your lactatethreshold, you are running
without oxygen.
You are on borrowed time.
It's unsustainable, you'regoing to have to slow down.
And if you are right at thatlactate threshold, sort of that
(08:06):
boundary in between aerobic andanaerobic, if you're
well-trained, it's about anhour's worth of running.
It's about your one-hour racepace.
But as soon as you go anyfaster than that lactate
threshold you're very limitedand that's usually the race pace
for a 10K, a 5K or any shorterevent where you are going to be
(08:27):
running anaerobically.
But for longer events, like,say, the half marathon or the
marathon, or definitely someultra marathons, it's an aerobic
race.
So, yes, you probably want tobe somewhere in zone two or zone
three where it is aerobic, itis sustainable for hours and
hours and hours and somethingthat you can maintain for a very
(08:49):
long period of time.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You mentioned threshold, which is great.
I'm glad you did, because I'mgoing to give a perfect example
maybe to someone like you a 5kyou can fall out anaerobic
threshold, but to me that feelslike it's three hours and I'm
thinking like 50 feet is myanaerobic threshold, but to me
that feels like it's three hoursand I'm thinking like 50 feet
is my anaerobic threshold, whereI'm all out, pumping as quick
as I can and then I run out ofbreath.
(09:12):
I'm like that's the end ofAnthony.
So I need to pace myself, evenon like a 5k scale, just to get
going and get moving.
So yeah, just point being, it'stotally varies, which is what
you said.
Right, some people can maintainzone four a lot higher.
Some people cannot, and it thatreally is just heart rate zones
(09:33):
for those that don't understandwhat we're talking about, like
what are your percentage of yourmax?
So I do love that difference.
And I think the biggestquestion is for more practical
examples is how would you trainfor running shorter distance
compared to how you were trainedfor running longer distance?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
volume.
You would focus more on longruns.
Let's say you're training foran ultra marathon, even your
strength training might look alittle bit different.
You might be a little bit morefocused on strength and
stability instead of, perhaps,strength and power.
(10:16):
So if you're maybe you'retraining for a 5k, you might be
lifting some pretty heavyweights, you might be doing some
more plyometrics, someexplosive exercises in the gym,
because you really want to befast, you want to be someone who
can put a lot of force into theground, produce a lot of power
I mean, that's essentially whatvery fast running is.
(10:36):
So the workouts are going to bemore in line with that goal.
Even the strength training isgoing to be more in line with
that goal.
Whereas if you're training for amarathon or even a longer race,
yeah, the most important thingis is probably your weekly
mileage or monthly mileage.
It's your overall, overallvolume.
So how much are you running?
How often are you running?
(10:57):
What is your, what is your longrun distance at?
And and then, of course, evenin an ultra, you do want to do
some kind of speed work becauseyou know we always want to be
pushing up on our ceiling.
You know our ceiling of speed,our maximum abilities, because
if you think about any race asbeing a certain percentage of
your ceiling, well, it's goingto benefit you to have a really
(11:18):
high ceiling.
So you know, basically what isyour mile time, what is your 5K
time?
You know, the best 100 mileultramarathoner might be one of
the better 5K runners in thefield, so that's always helpful
to understand.
Is running is running?
You know fitness is fitnesswhen it comes to the sport of
running.
So if you're really good in themile or the 5K, you're going to
(11:40):
be really good in anultramarathon.
You just kind of have to do theendurance training to get
yourself properly prepared forthat distance.
The other thing that I'd say tooabout the differences in
training is that some of thetraining is not as appropriate
for, say, beginners.
So you know, if you're someonewho's been running for less than
(12:02):
a year, it's probably not agood idea to go train for a
hundred mile ultra marathon,because that requires just a
tremendous base of aerobicfitness and endurance.
But also the flip side to thatis it requires a lot of
durability.
You know you're going to be onyour feet for potentially 20, 25
, 30 hours and the injury riskwith something like that is
(12:25):
pretty substantial.
So that's why it's beneficialjust to get those years of
experience, so that you knowyou're not kind of, you know you
don't want to take the SATbefore you've graduated from
elementary school, right Likelet's, let's get good at the 5k
before we get good at themarathon, before we get good at
an ultra marathon.
So some of the differences intraining tend to be differences
(12:49):
in difficulty, and so I reallylike newer runners to focus on
the shorter distances, developsome capability, develop some
speed first, and then, onceyou've developed that speed
which really helps with yourrunning economy so over a very
long distance that really comesin handy Then you're a little
bit more ready to start tacklingthose longer distances.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Great answer and, I think, the biggest question for
somebody.
Let's say you're a beginner,you're getting into it.
What type of specific exercisesshould I be doing to help, like
, avoid injury?
Right?
So I think a lot of people takerunning for granted, in the
sense that you don't need tolearn a new skill to go running.
(13:31):
Most people can just startrunning.
They just start moving theirbody quicker than they consider
they're running.
But I think that leads to a lotof injuries because we don't
learn how to properly run aswe're kids.
A lot of people don't focus ontechnique.
I don't remember a single timegoing back to childhood where a
coach watched me run and analyzemy gait pattern and went oh,
(13:52):
that's why you suck, like yourhips extremely, like externally
rotate, you can't even bringyour feet straight, you're
rolling out over your toes andyou're supinating.
So here's some correctiveexercises and proper footwear to
put on to help make sure thatyou don't get hurt.
And that's all true.
So how could somebody whodoesn't really fully understand
(14:13):
this field really look for waysto avoid getting injured and
help teach them how to runproperly?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, it's another really good question.
So one of the benefits of whenyou are a relatively new runner,
focusing on what we'll call themiddle distances, let's say
10,000 meters and shorter isthat the training that you do
for those distances does helpimprove your form better than,
say, training for a marathon,because you're going to be doing
(14:43):
more speed work, you're goingto be running strides, which are
short accelerations that you doafter a run, and you know the
structure of the workouts issuch that you're just going to
be focusing on things that tendto improve your running economy
more than the things you woulddo as a marathoner.
So you know, there's there'sanother kind of like point in
(15:04):
the column of the middledistances for just helping you
develop some of these skillsearlier in your running career.
But from an injury preventionperspective I would say you know
, I think every runner shouldsandwich their run in between a
dynamic warmup and then apost-run series of core or
strength exercises.
Now, twice a week.
(15:25):
Yes, let's get in the gym,let's lift some heavy weight,
let's actually lift weights.
That's really important forrunners.
We've got to be strong.
You know, I don't even reallyconsider strength training to be
cross training.
It's more part of the trainingthat you need to accomplish your
potential if you're interestedin improving and progressing and
getting better.
But that's twice a week.
(15:46):
The other days that you're thatyou're running, you know, of
course let's warm up dynamically, let's do some flexibility
movements, let's do some lightstrength work, really
metabolically prime your bodyfor the run that you're about to
go on.
And then, when you're done withyour run, you know we've still
got to do some other things.
You know, very helpful not toconsider yourself a runner,
consider yourself an athletethat specializes in running.
(16:09):
So, yes, most of your exerciseis going to be running, but
that's your sport specificexercise.
You're still going to do awhole bunch of other stuff.
That's part of the dynamic warmup.
You're also going to do somecore and strength work after
your run.
I'm kind of agnostic on whichexercises are best.
You know, like most body weight, strength exercises are going
(16:30):
to be helpful.
Everything from you know squats, single leg deadlifts, side
planks, front planks, bridges,you know any kind of lateral leg
raises, anything that reallyworks the hips and the glutes is
going to be fantastic.
And a lot of these post-runcore and strength workouts.
(16:50):
They shouldn't be very long.
We're talking 10, 15, 20minutes.
It's really partly a cool downbut also just a little bit of
work to help keep you healthy.
And if you have ever been to aphysical therapist and you're
trying to rehab a knee injury orplantar fasciitis or Achilles
tendinopathy or one of the othercommon running injuries that
(17:12):
are out there, you'll probablynotice that a lot of the
exercises that I like toprescribe are very similar to
what you're gonna do in a PT'soffice.
You know, when you go to aphysical therapist office you're
doing rehabilitation, but whenwe do it when we're healthy
which is still a good idea it'sprehab, it's prehabilitation.
It's sort of doing the workthat you would do when you're
(17:33):
trying to get healthy, whenyou're already healthy, in an
effort to keep yourself that way.
So you know how do you keepyourself healthy?
I think you know.
Probably the number two thing iswhat we've just been talking
about is all the strengthtraining.
You know let's do a lot of bodyweight stuff, but twice a week
we get in the gym, but the mostimportant thing to do is just to
make sure that your training iswell structured.
(17:55):
Let's not increase our mileagetoo substantially from week to
week.
Let's do workouts that are notonly appropriate for our ability
level but also appropriate forwhat we're training for and
appropriate for where we are inthe season.
You know, if you're trainingfor a 5k, if you're one week out
, your workout is going to looka lot different than if you're
(18:17):
12 weeks out.
So there should be some kind ofperiodization or, in other
words, your, your trainingevolves over time so that it's
ultimately focused on whatevergoal it is that you have.
Maybe that's running a fastrace, maybe it's not, maybe it's
some other goal that you have,but your training should always
be oriented toward that goal.
(18:38):
So, from an injury preventionperspective, as soon as we get
our training right number oneand then we add some strength
training in, I think that's like80% of the problem right there,
and then the other 20%, ormaybe 15%, is the recovery side
of things.
Are we getting enough sleep, arewe taking care of ourselves and
(18:59):
eating well and stayinghydrated?
All those things are obviouslyimportant.
One of the things about runningthat makes it quite difficult
is the fact that it's relentless.
Even if you're really intoweight lifting, you might only
lift three days a week, but withrunning you might run five, six
, seven days a week.
It is relentless to a certainextent, and so the recovery side
(19:21):
of things is almost a dailyadventure in trying to get
yourself to feel really good, torecover from the workout you
just did, so that you are readyfor the next workout to come,
because it is coming, it'sinevitable.
You're on this, just thisendless train of recovery runs
and workouts and long runs, andit can be fairly challenging.
(19:42):
So that's why a properstructure and progression of
training, adding in somestrength training and then
making sure your recovery is onpoint, those are probably the
top three in my book.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, you definitely hit a lot of different things
and just from experience, one ofmy favorite things to do with
clients when I was training andI have my trainers do now is I
throw someone on a treadmill andI have my trainers do now is I
know someone and I try to know.
And I love the new technologyon phones where you can video
tube someone in slow motion andthen you can literally see, as
they're running in like a jog orsprint, how someone's landing
(20:18):
to address a specific type ofinjury and the thing I probably
see the most is lack ofdorsiflexion, so they're an
ability to kind of lifting yourtoes straight up.
So the landing very heavy.
These are the people that whenyou're at a gym you hear this
and they found very, very heavywhen they're running.
(20:39):
That causes shin splints.
And then a lot of people say,oh, the front of my shin says
shin hurts.
So first I'll make a definitionof what shin splints are.
And then a lot of people say,oh, the front of my shin says
what does your shin hurt?
So first I'm going to give adefinition of what shin splints
are.
It's microfractures in the shinitself, so inside the bone.
So that's why it's superfucking painful and a really
cool test to figure out ifyou've ever had shin splints or
if someone had shin splints.
(21:00):
Take your thumb from your knee.
Take your thumb from your knee,go straight down the front of
your leg all the way down toyour ankle and every time you
feel bumps in that shin, that'syour bone regrowing back thicker
, stronger and it doesn't growstraight anymore, it grows like
a rock.
So you can feel old injuries bydoing that.
So someone like me who hadchronic shin splints as a kid
(21:23):
because I didn't know how todorsiflex, it's just like a
rigid rock as you're runningdown my shin.
So what's a good way to trainfor that?
There's tons of dorsiflexionmovements.
You could do that muscle forthose that want to look it up
with anterior tibialis.
So that is lifting your toesstraight up.
There's little machines theymake for it where you can sit
back into a wall and like rockyour toes up.
There's little machines theymake for it where you can sit
back into a wall and like rockyour toes up, or you can do heel
(21:46):
walks and that's a really goodway to help drift.
And then that and then just hipmovements.
My wife and I run completelydifferent.
I run very hips, externallyrotated duck feet is what the
layman term for it is.
So I'm running way out andawkward striding, and she runs
the exact opposite.
She runs pigeon, pigeon andbasically it looks like she's
(22:07):
walking a tightrope.
When she runs it's just backand forth both.
So she has super tight internalrotators, as opposed to me
having the exact opposite.
So just understanding how yourun and really looking at your
gait pattern by looking atyourself doing it in slow motion
can help teach you how to workunder active muscles and relief
(22:30):
and get the tension out ofoveractive muscles and help
train you to run smoother andpretty much avoid injuries.
I think is a big side of it.
And then this thing goes toweightlifting.
So why?
Why wouldn't it apply forrunning?
Another cool tidbit andsomething I would like you to
talk about further is this is megoing to nerd out a little bit
(22:53):
muscle fibers and the differenttypes of muscle fibers.
So we have type one and typetwo.
Type one muscles are like I getan opposite fast, slow, twitch.
Sorry, type one is slow twitchand type two is fast twitch.
And then there's differenttypes inside of type two and the
theory behind it is.
You can't have a hundredpercent of both.
(23:14):
You have a certain percentageof muscle fibers, so you can
super train yourself to one wayor super train yourself to the
other way, which is why thesaying goes you could be really
good with strength or you couldbe really good with long
distance running.
So how do you address that inthe running world and how do you
(23:37):
like, counteract that with theperson that's training program?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
The interesting thing is, I don't counteract it at
all, I I actually think, eventhough we do have a different
muscle fiber typology, there's,you know, like you said, uh,
type one, type two, there's twoa and two b.
It doesn't really make adifference really, because if a
runner comes to me and they're,uh, you know, a fast Twitch,
(24:05):
sprinter type, heavyweightlifting kind of runner,
but they want to run marathons,um, well then they just have to
do the marathon training andthey're going to convert some of
those type two fibers to typeone fibers.
They're going to get a lot moreefficient with using the type
one fibers.
And so you know, like we arevery adaptable, and so I
(24:26):
wouldn't let any anyone whotells you, oh, you're a type one
athlete or you're a type twoathlete, not to pursue whatever
it is that you want to pursue,whether it's, you know, you know
, most people, like you said,they're a mix, they're not a
predominantly type one runnerversus a type two runner.
Uh, elliot Kipchagay, the theworld record, or the fastest
(24:49):
marathoner in the world, he's atype one guy.
And, and probably the best wayto know which type of fiber that
you have is where you've hadsuccess as an athlete in the
past, right.
So if you are an incrediblesoccer player, you're probably
more of a type two kind of anathlete.
If you are an amazing Ironman,ultra distance triathlete,
(25:12):
probably more of a type one typeof athlete, triathlete probably
more of a type one type ofathlete.
What I'll say is a lot ofrunners adult runners who come
to the sport regardless of whattype of muscle fibers they have,
they still kind of only focuson the type one stuff.
They love going the long runs.
They don't lift heavy, theydon't do any sprint work and so
(25:34):
their ability to run fast, theirany kind of stress on the type
two fibers.
You know that fast twitchresponsiveness really just
starts to decline over timebecause it's simply never
trained.
And so you know what I wouldsay for every, every runner is
that, even if you're trainingfor an ultra marathon, you've
(25:54):
got to do some lifting, you'vegot to do some speed work where
you're actually running very,very fast, because we need that
healthy balance.
You need some of that type twoability to produce force and
actually run with some power,because that's your running
economy, that's your vo two max,that's your, your speed ceiling
, like we mentioned before.
And so, yeah, even if you're amarathoner, hey, that's great.
(26:17):
You got to run a lot of miles,you got to do a good long run.
You're probably going to runaerobic workouts, but you're
also going to run strides.
You should also be getting inthe gym to lift weights and
sometimes some of your workoutsare probably going to have some
short fast reps in it, becauseyou do need that good running
economy and you do need thatgood running economy and you do
(26:38):
need your vo2 max totheoretically be as high as
possible.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, I'm going to mention now my favorite part
about running.
You know this.
Is that not sarcastic too?
I, uh, I did a couple ofspartan races and even though
it's not like your stereotypicalrun a marathon, it's still like
one was a half marathon length.
It was 13.1 miles up a mountainin Jersey, multiple times up a
(27:03):
mountain, with obstacles inbetween.
And one thing you realize iswhat you mentioned earlier in
the show, and I really want youto talk about this from a
running standpoint is it trainsyour mental resilience more
efficiently than other aspects,especially weightlifting as an
example.
(27:23):
So for a good, good way to lookat it is if I'm doing like a
one rep max, right, how muchtime does it take to get that
rep?
Does it take to get that rep 10seconds, 15 seconds, and I can
focus 100% and get myself there.
Now apply that to running anddistances, especially.
(27:44):
How long does it take to run amarathon or, like you even said,
an ultra marathon?
20 hours, and most people likemile four.
They start thinking about whythe hell did I sign up for this?
I still have 20 hours left ofrunning, oh my god.
And you really have to breakthat mental barrier over and
(28:07):
over and over and over again,because it just you can't
believe how much more you haveto do, especially because there
we're straight running on amarathon side.
There's no distractions, ofobstacles in between, it's just
you and your body.
That's it.
Good luck, go run.
So it's something I think a lotof people can learn a positive
(28:30):
from and really, if they haveother aspects in their life that
they don't feel like they havespecific mental resilience, go
for a super long distance run orgo do something that takes an
extreme amount of time, like aspartan race, and you realize,
and we'll look back and say, hey, if I did that, then I can do
this other stupid thing I'mworried about in my life.
(28:51):
Give me some like tidbits ofthings you do to help with
yourself and other people topush past those mental barriers
that we set ourselves up with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, I agree with you 100%, and I will add the
cruel thing about running isthat you don't actually have to
run a long time.
You could race a mile on thetrack, hit the halfway point and
realize you're in full panicmode because you feel like
you're in a pot of boiling water.
You feel like your legs are onfire and you're only halfway in.
(29:24):
Now you may only have two tofive minutes left of running,
but the cool thing about runningis that it allows that time to
be stretched almost to aneternity, so you don't have to
go run a marathon to experienceeternity.
You could run a 5K, you couldrun a mile race If you're
pushing yourself in anappropriate intensity.
(29:46):
Every single race is going tobe an exercise in mental
toughness, and I'm a bigbeliever in the fact that you
cannot have mental toughness bysitting down in a chair and
doing some mindset exercises andthinking your way to being a
mentally tough kind of a person.
(30:07):
You actually have to go out inthe field and experience it.
You have to put yourself in thesituation where you are
required to demonstrate mentaltoughness, and so you can do
this in a lot of ways.
You know like you can run a lotand you can do all that with
with no headphones.
No, no podcasts will make anexception for the health and
(30:28):
fitness redefined podcast.
But a lot of the time you justneed to be alone with your
thoughts for a very long periodof time, and if you can do that
an hour a day, that's a greatbaseline of mental toughness.
Now we're going to do a longrun.
Now it's not an hour, Now it'stwo hours.
Can you do that just byyourself, alone with your
thoughts, for two hours?
(30:48):
You have to experience a lessstable physiology for two hours
and be okay with that.
That's a level of almostpatience, self-control, being
okay with things, not feelingamazing.
That's part of mental toughness.
(31:08):
But we also have to do hardworkouts.
We have to get on the track orgo to a hill workout or some
sort of tempo run where we'rechallenging our bodies not from
a duration perspective but froman intensity perspective.
And this is another way of kindof testing your mental
toughness abilities, becausewhat you want to do is get to a
(31:29):
point where you know, let's say,you're at the track and you're
running six times 800 meters ortwo laps around the track Well,
the first two might be verymanageable.
And then, on the third one, yourealize that, oh my God, I am
experiencing tremendous fatigue.
I'm anaerobic, my legs arestarting to get really tired and
(31:50):
you're only halfway done andyou basically need to figure out
how to survive this workout,not just physically but also
psychologically, and I thinkit's just required to do all
these things.
You need the relentless grindof running to build a certain
aspect of mental toughness.
You need to be alone with yourthoughts for an hour or two or
(32:12):
more to build a certain aspectof mental toughness.
But you also need to experiencethat intensity Because
ultimately, at the end of theday, I think mental toughness is
the ability to solve problemsconstructively without panicking
, and this is, of course, in anathletic perspective.
So, if you're experiencing somekind of problem in your running
(32:33):
maybe you went out too fast,Maybe you don't feel good, Maybe
the weather is less than idealon race day no matter what it is
you need to sort of roll withthe punches, creatively solve
that problem, while maintaininga positive attitude and just
moving forward and doing thebest you can with what you've
(32:53):
been given.
Yes, you can control what youcan control, but a lot of things
are outside of your control,and I have seen runners
absolutely just lose their shitbecause something bad happened
that they had no control over,and I've seen other runners
completely just smoothly go overthat obstacle and then go on to
(33:13):
have an amazing race.
And so a big part of this isyour psychology.
I don't think you can learn itin a classroom or in even a
sports psychologist's office.
You sort of have to take someof those ideas and lessons
whether that's imagery, whetherthat's exercises and using
mantras or whatever it is and goapply it out in the real world
(33:35):
in all those situations that wetalked about, so that your
mental toughness is holistic,it's well-rounded.
Yeah, you can go for a long run, but you can also go do a
workout and you can deal with arace when things don't go
exactly according to plan andyou can still be successful.
So I do think running isprobably one of the best sports
(33:56):
at developing mental toughness.
You know if you can run highmileage with hard workouts and
you know you're you're, you'rejust running races and able to
push yourself to the well, Imean, that's another thing is
running a race is such anexercise in experiencing
discomfort and, honestly, themore you can experience, the
(34:18):
more you can gladly pile morediscomfort onto yourself, the
better racer you're going to be.
And you don't get thereovernight.
I mean, the first race that Iran it was like a full on
psychological panic mode.
I've got to stop to walk.
I don't know what's going on.
Right now I feel like I'm goingto die Right.
And you know, after a couple ofyears you realize running's not
(34:42):
going to kill me, I'm not goingto die.
You stop putting races on thispedestal of like, oh, everything
is going to go right, and andand you know I'm going to expect
so much of myself and and thisis going to be easy, or I got
this, and you just, you have allthese sort of ideas about
racing and I think the moreexperience you get, the more
you're just like racing is justa logical extension of training.
(35:05):
If I've done the work, I'mgoing to be prepared.
I know it's going to hurt.
Even if it's a marathon, it'sgoing to be over even before you
know it.
Marathon, it's going to be overeven before you know it.
And I've just need need toexercise that patience that I've
built so so well duringtraining and get to the finish
line and experience that.
So if you can get to that place, you've you've built a
(35:29):
tremendous amount of mentaltoughness.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, I keep thinking back when you were telling,
explaining everything to thatspartan race that I did.
I want to add some more contextto the story and I actually
interviewed joe decina, the ceoof spartan.
I think episode three of thisshow or four, somewhere really
early I was just on his backactually really that's awesome.
And what they don't tell you ormaybe I just didn't read was
(35:55):
that beast, that they have the13.1 mile one.
You're supposed to bring yourown water.
I came from tough mutters and Ialways knew, hey, water
stations and we'll be fine.
So my wife and I showed uptotally unprepared.
I just dehydrated to the bonehalfway through because there's
no water stations on a beast andI blacked out mile eight.
(36:19):
I couldn't tell you, and evenlike the day after the race,
what happened between mile eightand mile 12.
I just saw my elite sign, I sawmile 12 sign, that's all I know
.
I think my brain woke back up.
It's like my papa, bio-pop areclose.
So it's just so crazy.
And I wanted to give up priorto that myelite so many times
(36:40):
and I was like, nope, keep going, keep going, keep going.
And to agree to your point, youteach yourself that over and
over and over again out there,how many times did you tell
yourself one more step, one morestep, one more step, step.
Just 500 million times becauseyour body's cramping, every
muscle hurts.
You're just when you get thatdehydrated.
(37:02):
Every step hurts.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
So so understanding the we, we call this in in track
and field.
We call this track math.
When you're running a trackrace and you start doing all the
math in your head of okay, I'vegot 1100 meters to go, that's
going to take me four minutesand 10 seconds.
I'll start my kick 90 secondsfrom the finish line, so I only
(37:30):
have two minutes and 40 secondsof suffering and you end up
figuring out time and meters toa very precise level.
And it's all because you'retrying to put context around
your own suffering.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So I totally get that yeah, it's, it's so true and
even relate that mentaltoughness is the general level,
like here's an example from thisweek, five days ago for myself,
where I, back in 2020, tore myright chest in two spots while
benching.
I went into a completelyunwarmed up by exhausted
(38:05):
mitrapsis.
I wasn't thinking, a brain was500 million of the places, tried
doing two 45, ended up rippingit in two spots.
So I had that mental block foryears Like don't go above two 45
.
Don't even hit two 45, stop attwo 35 and that's it.
And then I had such a stressfulday Monday and I was just like I
(38:27):
need to burn energy and Istarted benching and I was like
what the fuck do I care about anumber?
Why are you putting so muchthought into a number?
It's just a number.
Like fuck it, let's just do it.
So I got a spot, obviously toplay it safe.
Knocked out three reps, noproblem.
So I was like all right, I got245.
(38:48):
Let's go up again.
So it's 255.
Knocked out two reps.
I was like 265?
So I like 265.
So I got 265 on the bar.
I went to go down to do a repand I thought the kid that was
spotting me grabbed the bar so Ilike I held it at the bottom.
I was like let go of the bar,let go of the bar.
And then I pushed it up and Idid another rep of it and he
(39:08):
goes, bro, I wasn't touching thebar, you did a pause rep.
I was like 275.
So I threw 275 in the bar andthen got that and that's where I
stopped.
But like you're telling me thatin four days time spent from
last time I did chess, I bumpeda 40 pound increase on bench
(39:31):
press impossible.
So that just means I heldmyself back for who knows how
long from going heavier becauseI got stuck in my own way.
So it just shows that sometimeswhen our brains think we're
done, we're only halfway throughand we still have double of
that output, whether it'srunning, whether it's lifting,
(39:52):
pretty much anything in life togive, to go beyond, to push
ourselves to beyond specificlimits.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, and this happens in the running world too
, and probably the number onescenario where I see this happen
among runners that I'm workingwith is they don't think they
can run more than a certainamount per week and a lot of
times it's 30 miles a week, 35,40 miles per week, because
anything more than 30 to 40miles per week and you're
(40:22):
starting to get into some decentmileage numbers.
You might see some collegiaterunners running 50 or 60 miles a
week and that's intimidating toa lot of runners and the number
of runners that I have kind ofeasily gotten to some of those
higher mileage numbers andthey're like oh, I actually feel
fine, this is very manageable.
(40:43):
I was holding myself back foryears because of this
preconceived notion that Icouldn't do it.
I was going to get hurt andthen all of a sudden, because
you know, this athlete'scapacity is so greatly increased
, they're running betterworkouts, they're running faster
races and, you know, theirentire running career has been
(41:04):
transformed.
The trajectory has just beencompletely changed and I just
love seeing that, because you'reright, a lot of the times that
we are holding ourselves back,it's just us holding ourselves
back, you know, and that's whereI think you know, having a
coach having that kind of maybeneutral third set of eyes around
you just to just kind of lookat things.
(41:25):
You know, hey, anthony, maybeyou can go beyond 245 with the
bench, maybe you can run morethan 40 miles a week, you know,
there's, there's a lot of waysin which an expert or someone
like that can really help youbreak through some of those
preconceived notions that youhave, and on the other side of
that is just a whole differentathlete that you could be.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Coaches are the best thing youcan pay for in all aspects of
life, and even the mostprofessional athletes have
coaches.
I train with my trainers, as anexample, I pay them, but I
still train with them because Ican always learn.
Just because their staffdoesn't mean I can't learn from
them, so I couldn't agree withyou more.
I think we're going to startwrapping this show up, jason,
(42:11):
but I'm going to ask you one funquestion, because I know you
know the answer.
I'm sure a lot of people don'tknow the answer, and it's
totally fun.
Why is it called the marathon?
It's such an odd mileage, sowhy is it?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
called the marathon.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh, you're testing my like historical uh running
trivia knowledge oh yeah so it'smy fun fact to bring with me
every time I show up at a race.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
This is a good fun fact.
So the original marathon, thefirst marathon ever run, was, I
believe, in ancient Greece orRome or Italy, and there was a
runner who ran to the city ofMarathon to tell the city people
that they had won the battle.
(42:56):
And he got there, he deliveredthe news.
He immediately collapsed anddied on the spot, which is the
kind of the lore of the marathonand and that's why it's called
the marathon.
Uh, but that wasn't actually26.2 miles, it was a different
distance and it's since beenstandardized to 26.2.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
and it's since been standardized to 26.2.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, you pretty much , nailed it Pretty much.
I don't know if it was.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Greece.
It was a war with the Persians.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Some of the finer details escaped me.
Yeah, he showed up, gave thenews, died, so they always think
that was the extent of humanrunning, yeah, and then we
decided to invent ultramarathons.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Like are we crazy sadistic, totally crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Uh, but yes, the actual final two questions.
I'm going to ask you, super, tosummarize episode in one or two
sentences, but it'll be takehome message my take-home
message is that running is notnecessarily harder as hard as
you might think it is.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
If you give it a little bit of time and you
approach it with a strategicperspective, you can become a
much better runner than youthink you can be.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
I love that.
And where can people find you,get a hold of you and learn more
about strength running?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, I love that.
And where can people find you,get ahold of you and learn more
about strength running?
Yeah, so if you're a runner,you want to take your running to
the next level.
Strength runningcom is my homebase, but if you're into
podcasts, you can always checkout the strength running podcast
.
My podcast tries to treat youlike a pro runner, so I surround
you with you know the samesupport team a pro might have
the physical therapist, thestrength coaches, of course,
(44:37):
running coaches, sportspsychologists and you know a
whole bunch of thought leadersaround the sport who can help
you Accomplish your goals.
So check out the podcast.
You can check out strengthrunning's youtube channel if you
prefer video, but those are thethree best places to learn a
little bit more about strengthrunning and me.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I love it.
Jason, thank you so much forcoming on.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Health
and Fitness Redefined.
If you enjoyed this show, shareit with a friend.
It's the only way this showgrows.
And don't forget, guys, fitnessis medicine.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Health
and Fitness Redefined.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and share this show
(45:20):
with a friend, with a loved one,for those that need to hear it.
And, ultimately, don't forget,fitness is medicine.
I'll see you next time.
This is Health and Fitness Redefined, brought to
you by Redefined Fitness.
Hello and welcome to Health andFitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we got another great
episode for all of you.
Today, Super excited to talkabout my least favorite topic,
that is, running.
(00:24):
So for those that do or do notknow me, if I am running it
means I'm being chased fromzombies.
Please run away with me.
That's the only time you'llever catch me running in my
tracks.
I'm just playing.
I heard he's from Boston, so Ihad to give him some slack.
Anyway, without further ado,welcome to today's show, jason.
Jason, it's a pleasure to haveyou on today.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Wow, anthonyony, thank you for the lukewarm
welcome, absolutely, I got you Iknow we were talking offline
before we started.
You're from long island, I'mfrom boston.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're going to talk about a topic you don't love, so
this is going to be good it'sfunny because, like my whole
staff, I just always send themreasons about why they shouldn't
run.
That's like everything in ourprivate group.
Me, I'm like this is anotherreason why you don't run this,
another reason why and maybeit's just because I absolutely
suck at it, so that's why Idon't like doing so.
(01:18):
Maybe actually I should conquermy own fears of running and
hire you as a coach to help meget better, because I am the
world's worst runner in theworld.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, Anthony, when I first started running, I was
not very good at it and I alsohated it too.
In fact, before I startedrunning, I remember track and
field week in school and I waslike the 110 pound kid throwing
the shot put because youcouldn't catch me in any single
running event.
I hated it.
(01:47):
I couldn't be caught deadrunning.
And look at me now.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'll give you an example Prior to me.
I always mentioned, like priorto my accident and me getting
involved in working outwhatsoever.
I was 15 years old.
I had the same problem as you.
I was really tall and thin, nomuscle, and I ran a 15-17 mile.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, that's not the most competitive mile, but lots
of room for improvement.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Pretty much all the improvement.
I could have walked andprobably done better, even
though I was trying to run, Idon't know.
Tell me a little bit about howyou got involved in being a
running coach.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I've been a running coach now for 15 years.
I've been a runner myself forabout 27 years.
I was the kid who rancross-country indoor and outdoor
track all four years of highschool.
I went to Connecticut Collegeand competed there for all three
seasons over those four yearsof high school.
I went to Connecticut Collegeand competed there for all three
seasons over those four years,and I just kept training after
(02:49):
college and I just knew that Iloved this sport.
I wanted to keep competing, Iwanted to test myself in some of
those longer distances and Ialso knew that I wanted to work
somewhere in the running space,and a long time ago.
I wanted to work somewhere inthe running space, and a long
(03:09):
time ago that either meant I gotto go be a pro runner or I need
to go be either a college coachor perhaps a coach of
high-level pro athletes, and Ihave done neither of those
things.
I was never a pro runner oreven close to being a pro runner
, but I found out a way to beinvolved in the running
community In 2010,.
I started strengthrunningcom,started coaching 2016, I started
(03:33):
the Strength Running Podcast,and it's just a sport that sort
of captured my imagination fromwhen I was a kid.
I think one of the things thatI love about it is that, unlike
team sports like basketball.
So my first love was basketball.
Unfortunately, I stoppedgrowing after middle school and
everyone else kept growing alittle bit.
We never shared the sameproblem, anthony, of me being a
(03:55):
tall, skinny guy.
I was always the short, skinnyguy, but I had to abandon my
first love of basketball.
But I fell in love with justimproving, getting better, and I
found out that, unlike teamsports, running is something
where, much like weightlifting,you get a lot of value and a lot
(04:17):
of progress and great feelingsof just that personal
improvement from your own work.
And I just found the more workthat I put in, the more value I
got out of the sport, the betterI became.
I didn't have to relynecessarily on teammates.
You know we didn't lose a gamebecause coach didn't put me in.
It was because I didn't run ashard as I could, and so I really
(04:41):
loved that aspect of running.
That's what made me fall inlove with the sport.
I always knew I wanted to workwith runners in some capacity
and I'm just really gratefulthat I figured out a way to do
it.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So what is strength running?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Good question.
Strength running is a coachingand media business, I guess is
the most simple way to describeit.
Coaching and media business, Iguess, is the most simple way to
describe it.
So, yes, we have trainingprograms and coaching services
for runners who want to getbetter.
That's our whole kind of NorthStar.
We exist to help runnersimprove, to elevate their
performances and help them withany goal they might have Not
(05:19):
necessarily running faster, butmaybe staying healthier and
preventing more injuries orbeing more consistent, or just
training more or potentiallyrunning a longer race than you
might've ever run before.
So strength running isdefinitely the coaching side of
things, but we also have thestrength running podcast and the
(05:39):
strength running YouTubechannel, which also make it a
media business as well, and sowe we work with a variety of
different brands on thoseproperties and really just love
bringing runners you know thekind of actionable advice I sort
of wish I had, you know, when Iwas a young runner and just
searching for training advice,searching for, you know,
(06:00):
examples and models of othersuccessful runners who have been
, you know, really good atachieving their potential and
sort of bringing that knowledgeto you know, your everyday adult
runner.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, and let's talk about that advice specifically.
And I'm going to get there areally quirky way.
So, when I hear strengthrunning, this is where my brain
goes, and maybe it's because I'mjust in this industry too long,
and maybe it's because I'm justin this industry too long.
I think anaerobic sprintsbecause it's more muscular,
based and quick, without oxygen,whereas, like your, long
distance runs are your aerobic.
So this is the point I said mybrain goes.
(06:35):
So I think that's the place Iwant to start, which is what is
the difference?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
for those that probably don't know the
difference between an anaerobicrun and an aerobic run, Well,
can I first say, Anthony, I lovethe fact that I named my
business Strength Runningbecause it's like a Rorschach
test.
Everyone kind of sees whateverthey want to see in the name.
It's like, oh, you're aweightlifting coach that also is
(07:00):
a runner.
Well, no, not quite.
Or, oh, this is the anaerobicside of things.
Well, not quite.
To be honest, I purchasedstrengthrunningcom as a domain
name in 2007, simply because Ithought it sounded cool, but in
hindsight it's worked out to bea wonderful brand name.
It really just means let's bestrong runners in every capacity
(07:21):
.
Yes, let's have a strongaerobic system.
Let's have strong muscles,let's be, you know, strong
psychologically and have acertain amount of mental
toughness.
So that strength is somethingthat I think can be applied to
almost any area of our training.
But for the differences betweenaerobic and anaerobic running,
(07:42):
it's basically the differencebetween running with oxygen and
without oxygen, and that markerthat divides aerobic and
anaerobic running is yourlactate threshold.
If you're beyond your lactatethreshold, you are running
without oxygen.
You are on borrowed time.
It's unsustainable, you'regoing to have to slow down.
And if you are right at thatlactate threshold, sort of that
(08:06):
boundary in between aerobic andanaerobic, if you're
well-trained, it's about anhour's worth of running.
It's about your one-hour racepace.
But as soon as you go anyfaster than that lactate
threshold you're very limitedand that's usually the race pace
for a 10K, a 5K or any shorterevent where you are going to be
(08:27):
running anaerobically.
But for longer events, like,say, the half marathon or the
marathon, or definitely someultra marathons, it's an aerobic
race.
So, yes, you probably want tobe somewhere in zone two or zone
three where it is aerobic, itis sustainable for hours and
hours and hours and somethingthat you can maintain for a very
(08:49):
long period of time.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You mentioned threshold, which is great.
I'm glad you did, because I'mgoing to give a perfect example
maybe to someone like you a 5kyou can fall out anaerobic
threshold, but to me that feelslike it's three hours and I'm
thinking like 50 feet is myanaerobic threshold, but to me
that feels like it's three hoursand I'm thinking like 50 feet
is my anaerobic threshold, whereI'm all out, pumping as quick
as I can and then I run out ofbreath.
(09:12):
I'm like that's the end ofAnthony.
So I need to pace myself, evenon like a 5k scale, just to get
going and get moving.
So yeah, just point being, it'stotally varies, which is what
you said.
Right, some people can maintainzone four a lot higher.
Some people cannot, and it thatreally is just heart rate zones
(09:33):
for those that don't understandwhat we're talking about, like
what are your percentage of yourmax?
So I do love that difference.
And I think the biggestquestion is for more practical
examples is how would you trainfor running shorter distance
compared to how you were trainedfor running longer distance?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
volume.
You would focus more on longruns.
Let's say you're training foran ultra marathon, even your
strength training might look alittle bit different.
You might be a little bit morefocused on strength and
stability instead of, perhaps,strength and power.
(10:16):
So if you're maybe you'retraining for a 5k, you might be
lifting some pretty heavyweights, you might be doing some
more plyometrics, someexplosive exercises in the gym,
because you really want to befast, you want to be someone who
can put a lot of force into theground, produce a lot of power
I mean, that's essentially whatvery fast running is.
(10:36):
So the workouts are going to bemore in line with that goal.
Even the strength training isgoing to be more in line with
that goal.
Whereas if you're training for amarathon or even a longer race,
yeah, the most important thingis is probably your weekly
mileage or monthly mileage.
It's your overall, overallvolume.
So how much are you running?
How often are you running?
(10:57):
What is your, what is your longrun distance at?
And and then, of course, evenin an ultra, you do want to do
some kind of speed work becauseyou know we always want to be
pushing up on our ceiling.
You know our ceiling of speed,our maximum abilities, because
if you think about any race asbeing a certain percentage of
your ceiling, well, it's goingto benefit you to have a really
(11:18):
high ceiling.
So you know, basically what isyour mile time, what is your 5K
time?
You know, the best 100 mileultramarathoner might be one of
the better 5K runners in thefield, so that's always helpful
to understand.
Is running is running?
You know fitness is fitnesswhen it comes to the sport of
running.
So if you're really good in themile or the 5K, you're going to
(11:40):
be really good in anultramarathon.
You just kind of have to do theendurance training to get
yourself properly prepared forthat distance.
The other thing that I'd say tooabout the differences in
training is that some of thetraining is not as appropriate
for, say, beginners.
So you know, if you're someonewho's been running for less than
(12:02):
a year, it's probably not agood idea to go train for a
hundred mile ultra marathon,because that requires just a
tremendous base of aerobicfitness and endurance.
But also the flip side to thatis it requires a lot of
durability.
You know you're going to be onyour feet for potentially 20, 25
, 30 hours and the injury riskwith something like that is
(12:25):
pretty substantial.
So that's why it's beneficialjust to get those years of
experience, so that you knowyou're not kind of, you know you
don't want to take the SATbefore you've graduated from
elementary school, right Likelet's, let's get good at the 5k
before we get good at themarathon, before we get good at
an ultra marathon.
So some of the differences intraining tend to be differences
(12:49):
in difficulty, and so I reallylike newer runners to focus on
the shorter distances, developsome capability, develop some
speed first, and then, onceyou've developed that speed
which really helps with yourrunning economy so over a very
long distance that really comesin handy Then you're a little
bit more ready to start tacklingthose longer distances.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Great answer and, I think, the biggest question for
somebody.
Let's say you're a beginner,you're getting into it.
What type of specific exercisesshould I be doing to help, like
, avoid injury?
Right?
So I think a lot of people takerunning for granted, in the
sense that you don't need tolearn a new skill to go running.
(13:31):
Most people can just startrunning.
They just start moving theirbody quicker than they consider
they're running.
But I think that leads to a lotof injuries because we don't
learn how to properly run aswe're kids.
A lot of people don't focus ontechnique.
I don't remember a single timegoing back to childhood where a
coach watched me run and analyzemy gait pattern and went oh,
(13:52):
that's why you suck, like yourhips extremely, like externally
rotate, you can't even bringyour feet straight, you're
rolling out over your toes andyou're supinating.
So here's some correctiveexercises and proper footwear to
put on to help make sure thatyou don't get hurt.
And that's all true.
So how could somebody whodoesn't really fully understand
(14:13):
this field really look for waysto avoid getting injured and
help teach them how to runproperly?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, it's another really good question.
So one of the benefits of whenyou are a relatively new runner,
focusing on what we'll call themiddle distances, let's say
10,000 meters and shorter isthat the training that you do
for those distances does helpimprove your form better than,
say, training for a marathon,because you're going to be doing
(14:43):
more speed work, you're goingto be running strides, which are
short accelerations that you doafter a run, and you know the
structure of the workouts issuch that you're just going to
be focusing on things that tendto improve your running economy
more than the things you woulddo as a marathoner.
So you know, there's there'sanother kind of like point in
(15:04):
the column of the middledistances for just helping you
develop some of these skillsearlier in your running career.
But from an injury preventionperspective I would say you know
, I think every runner shouldsandwich their run in between a
dynamic warmup and then apost-run series of core or
strength exercises.
Now, twice a week.
(15:25):
Yes, let's get in the gym,let's lift some heavy weight,
let's actually lift weights.
That's really important forrunners.
We've got to be strong.
You know, I don't even reallyconsider strength training to be
cross training.
It's more part of the trainingthat you need to accomplish your
potential if you're interestedin improving and progressing and
getting better.
But that's twice a week.
(15:46):
The other days that you're thatyou're running, you know, of
course let's warm up dynamically, let's do some flexibility
movements, let's do some lightstrength work, really
metabolically prime your bodyfor the run that you're about to
go on.
And then, when you're done withyour run, you know we've still
got to do some other things.
You know, very helpful not toconsider yourself a runner,
consider yourself an athletethat specializes in running.
(16:09):
So, yes, most of your exerciseis going to be running, but
that's your sport specificexercise.
You're still going to do awhole bunch of other stuff.
That's part of the dynamic warmup.
You're also going to do somecore and strength work after
your run.
I'm kind of agnostic on whichexercises are best.
You know, like most body weight, strength exercises are going
(16:30):
to be helpful.
Everything from you know squats, single leg deadlifts, side
planks, front planks, bridges,you know any kind of lateral leg
raises, anything that reallyworks the hips and the glutes is
going to be fantastic.
And a lot of these post-runcore and strength workouts.
(16:50):
They shouldn't be very long.
We're talking 10, 15, 20minutes.
It's really partly a cool downbut also just a little bit of
work to help keep you healthy.
And if you have ever been to aphysical therapist and you're
trying to rehab a knee injury orplantar fasciitis or Achilles
tendinopathy or one of the othercommon running injuries that
(17:12):
are out there, you'll probablynotice that a lot of the
exercises that I like toprescribe are very similar to
what you're gonna do in a PT'soffice.
You know, when you go to aphysical therapist office you're
doing rehabilitation, but whenwe do it when we're healthy
which is still a good idea it'sprehab, it's prehabilitation.
It's sort of doing the workthat you would do when you're
(17:33):
trying to get healthy, whenyou're already healthy, in an
effort to keep yourself that way.
So you know how do you keepyourself healthy?
I think you know.
Probably the number two thing iswhat we've just been talking
about is all the strengthtraining.
You know let's do a lot of bodyweight stuff, but twice a week
we get in the gym, but the mostimportant thing to do is just to
make sure that your training iswell structured.
(17:55):
Let's not increase our mileagetoo substantially from week to
week.
Let's do workouts that are notonly appropriate for our ability
level but also appropriate forwhat we're training for and
appropriate for where we are inthe season.
You know, if you're trainingfor a 5k, if you're one week out
, your workout is going to looka lot different than if you're
(18:17):
12 weeks out.
So there should be some kind ofperiodization or, in other
words, your, your trainingevolves over time so that it's
ultimately focused on whatevergoal it is that you have.
Maybe that's running a fastrace, maybe it's not, maybe it's
some other goal that you have,but your training should always
be oriented toward that goal.
(18:38):
So, from an injury preventionperspective, as soon as we get
our training right number oneand then we add some strength
training in, I think that's like80% of the problem right there,
and then the other 20%, ormaybe 15%, is the recovery side
of things.
Are we getting enough sleep, arewe taking care of ourselves and
(18:59):
eating well and stayinghydrated?
All those things are obviouslyimportant.
One of the things about runningthat makes it quite difficult
is the fact that it's relentless.
Even if you're really intoweight lifting, you might only
lift three days a week, but withrunning you might run five, six
, seven days a week.
It is relentless to a certainextent, and so the recovery side
(19:21):
of things is almost a dailyadventure in trying to get
yourself to feel really good, torecover from the workout you
just did, so that you are readyfor the next workout to come,
because it is coming, it'sinevitable.
You're on this, just thisendless train of recovery runs
and workouts and long runs, andit can be fairly challenging.
(19:42):
So that's why a properstructure and progression of
training, adding in somestrength training and then
making sure your recovery is onpoint, those are probably the
top three in my book.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, you definitely hit a lot of different things
and just from experience, one ofmy favorite things to do with
clients when I was training andI have my trainers do now is I
throw someone on a treadmill andI have my trainers do now is I
know someone and I try to know.
And I love the new technologyon phones where you can video
tube someone in slow motion andthen you can literally see, as
they're running in like a jog orsprint, how someone's landing
(20:18):
to address a specific type ofinjury and the thing I probably
see the most is lack ofdorsiflexion, so they're an
ability to kind of lifting yourtoes straight up.
So the landing very heavy.
These are the people that whenyou're at a gym you hear this
and they found very, very heavywhen they're running.
(20:39):
That causes shin splints.
And then a lot of people say,oh, the front of my shin says
shin hurts.
So first I'll make a definitionof what shin splints are.
And then a lot of people say,oh, the front of my shin says
what does your shin hurt?
So first I'm going to give adefinition of what shin splints
are.
It's microfractures in the shinitself, so inside the bone.
So that's why it's superfucking painful and a really
cool test to figure out ifyou've ever had shin splints or
if someone had shin splints.
(21:00):
Take your thumb from your knee.
Take your thumb from your knee,go straight down the front of
your leg all the way down toyour ankle and every time you
feel bumps in that shin, that'syour bone regrowing back thicker
, stronger and it doesn't growstraight anymore, it grows like
a rock.
So you can feel old injuries bydoing that.
So someone like me who hadchronic shin splints as a kid
(21:23):
because I didn't know how todorsiflex, it's just like a
rigid rock as you're runningdown my shin.
So what's a good way to trainfor that?
There's tons of dorsiflexionmovements.
You could do that muscle forthose that want to look it up
with anterior tibialis.
So that is lifting your toesstraight up.
There's little machines theymake for it where you can sit
back into a wall and like rockyour toes up.
There's little machines theymake for it where you can sit
back into a wall and like rockyour toes up, or you can do heel
(21:46):
walks and that's a really goodway to help drift.
And then that and then just hipmovements.
My wife and I run completelydifferent.
I run very hips, externallyrotated duck feet is what the
layman term for it is.
So I'm running way out andawkward striding, and she runs
the exact opposite.
She runs pigeon, pigeon andbasically it looks like she's
(22:07):
walking a tightrope.
When she runs it's just backand forth both.
So she has super tight internalrotators, as opposed to me
having the exact opposite.
So just understanding how yourun and really looking at your
gait pattern by looking atyourself doing it in slow motion
can help teach you how to workunder active muscles and relief
(22:30):
and get the tension out ofoveractive muscles and help
train you to run smoother andpretty much avoid injuries.
I think is a big side of it.
And then this thing goes toweightlifting.
So why?
Why wouldn't it apply forrunning?
Another cool tidbit andsomething I would like you to
talk about further is this is megoing to nerd out a little bit
(22:53):
muscle fibers and the differenttypes of muscle fibers.
So we have type one and typetwo.
Type one muscles are like I getan opposite fast, slow, twitch.
Sorry, type one is slow twitchand type two is fast twitch.
And then there's differenttypes inside of type two and the
theory behind it is.
You can't have a hundredpercent of both.
(23:14):
You have a certain percentageof muscle fibers, so you can
super train yourself to one wayor super train yourself to the
other way, which is why thesaying goes you could be really
good with strength or you couldbe really good with long
distance running.
So how do you address that inthe running world and how do you
(23:37):
like, counteract that with theperson that's training program?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
The interesting thing is, I don't counteract it at
all, I I actually think, eventhough we do have a different
muscle fiber typology, there's,you know, like you said, uh,
type one, type two, there's twoa and two b.
It doesn't really make adifference really, because if a
runner comes to me and they're,uh, you know, a fast Twitch,
(24:05):
sprinter type, heavyweightlifting kind of runner,
but they want to run marathons,um, well then they just have to
do the marathon training andthey're going to convert some of
those type two fibers to typeone fibers.
They're going to get a lot moreefficient with using the type
one fibers.
And so you know, like we arevery adaptable, and so I
(24:26):
wouldn't let any anyone whotells you, oh, you're a type one
athlete or you're a type twoathlete, not to pursue whatever
it is that you want to pursue,whether it's, you know, you know
, most people, like you said,they're a mix, they're not a
predominantly type one runnerversus a type two runner.
Uh, elliot Kipchagay, the theworld record, or the fastest
(24:49):
marathoner in the world, he's atype one guy.
And, and probably the best wayto know which type of fiber that
you have is where you've hadsuccess as an athlete in the
past, right.
So if you are an incrediblesoccer player, you're probably
more of a type two kind of anathlete.
If you are an amazing Ironman,ultra distance triathlete,
(25:12):
probably more of a type one typeof athlete, triathlete probably
more of a type one type ofathlete.
What I'll say is a lot ofrunners adult runners who come
to the sport regardless of whattype of muscle fibers they have,
they still kind of only focuson the type one stuff.
They love going the long runs.
They don't lift heavy, theydon't do any sprint work and so
(25:34):
their ability to run fast, theirany kind of stress on the type
two fibers.
You know that fast twitchresponsiveness really just
starts to decline over timebecause it's simply never
trained.
And so you know what I wouldsay for every, every runner is
that, even if you're trainingfor an ultra marathon, you've
(25:54):
got to do some lifting, you'vegot to do some speed work where
you're actually running very,very fast, because we need that
healthy balance.
You need some of that type twoability to produce force and
actually run with some power,because that's your running
economy, that's your vo two max,that's your, your speed ceiling
, like we mentioned before.
And so, yeah, even if you're amarathoner, hey, that's great.
(26:17):
You got to run a lot of miles,you got to do a good long run.
You're probably going to runaerobic workouts, but you're
also going to run strides.
You should also be getting inthe gym to lift weights and
sometimes some of your workoutsare probably going to have some
short fast reps in it, becauseyou do need that good running
economy and you do need thatgood running economy and you do
(26:38):
need your vo2 max totheoretically be as high as
possible.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, I'm going to mention now my favorite part
about running.
You know this.
Is that not sarcastic too?
I, uh, I did a couple ofspartan races and even though
it's not like your stereotypicalrun a marathon, it's still like
one was a half marathon length.
It was 13.1 miles up a mountainin Jersey, multiple times up a
(27:03):
mountain, with obstacles inbetween.
And one thing you realize iswhat you mentioned earlier in
the show, and I really want youto talk about this from a
running standpoint is it trainsyour mental resilience more
efficiently than other aspects,especially weightlifting as an
example.
(27:23):
So for a good, good way to lookat it is if I'm doing like a
one rep max, right, how muchtime does it take to get that
rep?
Does it take to get that rep 10seconds, 15 seconds, and I can
focus 100% and get myself there.
Now apply that to running anddistances, especially.
(27:44):
How long does it take to run amarathon or, like you even said,
an ultra marathon?
20 hours, and most people likemile four.
They start thinking about whythe hell did I sign up for this?
I still have 20 hours left ofrunning, oh my god.
And you really have to breakthat mental barrier over and
(28:07):
over and over and over again,because it just you can't
believe how much more you haveto do, especially because there
we're straight running on amarathon side.
There's no distractions, ofobstacles in between, it's just
you and your body.
That's it.
Good luck, go run.
So it's something I think a lotof people can learn a positive
(28:30):
from and really, if they haveother aspects in their life that
they don't feel like they havespecific mental resilience, go
for a super long distance run orgo do something that takes an
extreme amount of time, like aspartan race, and you realize,
and we'll look back and say, hey, if I did that, then I can do
this other stupid thing I'mworried about in my life.
(28:51):
Give me some like tidbits ofthings you do to help with
yourself and other people topush past those mental barriers
that we set ourselves up with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, I agree with you 100%, and I will add the
cruel thing about running isthat you don't actually have to
run a long time.
You could race a mile on thetrack, hit the halfway point and
realize you're in full panicmode because you feel like
you're in a pot of boiling water.
You feel like your legs are onfire and you're only halfway in.
(29:24):
Now you may only have two tofive minutes left of running,
but the cool thing about runningis that it allows that time to
be stretched almost to aneternity, so you don't have to
go run a marathon to experienceeternity.
You could run a 5K, you couldrun a mile race If you're
pushing yourself in anappropriate intensity.
(29:46):
Every single race is going tobe an exercise in mental
toughness, and I'm a bigbeliever in the fact that you
cannot have mental toughness bysitting down in a chair and
doing some mindset exercises andthinking your way to being a
mentally tough kind of a person.
(30:07):
You actually have to go out inthe field and experience it.
You have to put yourself in thesituation where you are
required to demonstrate mentaltoughness, and so you can do
this in a lot of ways.
You know like you can run a lotand you can do all that with
with no headphones.
No, no podcasts will make anexception for the health and
(30:28):
fitness redefined podcast.
But a lot of the time you justneed to be alone with your
thoughts for a very long periodof time, and if you can do that
an hour a day, that's a greatbaseline of mental toughness.
Now we're going to do a longrun.
Now it's not an hour, Now it'stwo hours.
Can you do that just byyourself, alone with your
thoughts, for two hours?
(30:48):
You have to experience a lessstable physiology for two hours
and be okay with that.
That's a level of almostpatience, self-control, being
okay with things, not feelingamazing.
That's part of mental toughness.
(31:08):
But we also have to do hardworkouts.
We have to get on the track orgo to a hill workout or some
sort of tempo run where we'rechallenging our bodies not from
a duration perspective but froman intensity perspective.
And this is another way of kindof testing your mental
toughness abilities, becausewhat you want to do is get to a
(31:29):
point where you know, let's say,you're at the track and you're
running six times 800 meters ortwo laps around the track Well,
the first two might be verymanageable.
And then, on the third one, yourealize that, oh my God, I am
experiencing tremendous fatigue.
I'm anaerobic, my legs arestarting to get really tired and
(31:50):
you're only halfway done andyou basically need to figure out
how to survive this workout,not just physically but also
psychologically, and I thinkit's just required to do all
these things.
You need the relentless grindof running to build a certain
aspect of mental toughness.
You need to be alone with yourthoughts for an hour or two or
(32:12):
more to build a certain aspectof mental toughness.
But you also need to experiencethat intensity Because
ultimately, at the end of theday, I think mental toughness is
the ability to solve problemsconstructively without panicking
, and this is, of course, in anathletic perspective.
So, if you're experiencing somekind of problem in your running
(32:33):
maybe you went out too fast,Maybe you don't feel good, Maybe
the weather is less than idealon race day no matter what it is
you need to sort of roll withthe punches, creatively solve
that problem, while maintaininga positive attitude and just
moving forward and doing thebest you can with what you've
(32:53):
been given.
Yes, you can control what youcan control, but a lot of things
are outside of your control,and I have seen runners
absolutely just lose their shitbecause something bad happened
that they had no control over,and I've seen other runners
completely just smoothly go overthat obstacle and then go on to
(33:13):
have an amazing race.
And so a big part of this isyour psychology.
I don't think you can learn itin a classroom or in even a
sports psychologist's office.
You sort of have to take someof those ideas and lessons
whether that's imagery, whetherthat's exercises and using
mantras or whatever it is and goapply it out in the real world
(33:35):
in all those situations that wetalked about, so that your
mental toughness is holistic,it's well-rounded.
Yeah, you can go for a long run, but you can also go do a
workout and you can deal with arace when things don't go
exactly according to plan andyou can still be successful.
So I do think running isprobably one of the best sports
(33:56):
at developing mental toughness.
You know if you can run highmileage with hard workouts and
you know you're you're, you'rejust running races and able to
push yourself to the well, Imean, that's another thing is
running a race is such anexercise in experiencing
discomfort and, honestly, themore you can experience, the
(34:18):
more you can gladly pile morediscomfort onto yourself, the
better racer you're going to be.
And you don't get thereovernight.
I mean, the first race that Iran it was like a full on
psychological panic mode.
I've got to stop to walk.
I don't know what's going on.
Right now I feel like I'm goingto die Right.
And you know, after a couple ofyears you realize running's not
(34:42):
going to kill me, I'm not goingto die.
You stop putting races on thispedestal of like, oh, everything
is going to go right, and andand you know I'm going to expect
so much of myself and and thisis going to be easy, or I got
this, and you just, you have allthese sort of ideas about
racing and I think the moreexperience you get, the more
you're just like racing is justa logical extension of training.
(35:05):
If I've done the work, I'mgoing to be prepared.
I know it's going to hurt.
Even if it's a marathon, it'sgoing to be over even before you
know it.
Marathon, it's going to be overeven before you know it.
And I've just need need toexercise that patience that I've
built so so well duringtraining and get to the finish
line and experience that.
So if you can get to that place, you've you've built a
(35:29):
tremendous amount of mentaltoughness.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yeah, I keep thinking back when you were telling,
explaining everything to thatspartan race that I did.
I want to add some more contextto the story and I actually
interviewed joe decina, the ceoof spartan.
I think episode three of thisshow or four, somewhere really
early I was just on his backactually really that's awesome.
And what they don't tell you ormaybe I just didn't read was
(35:55):
that beast, that they have the13.1 mile one.
You're supposed to bring yourown water.
I came from tough mutters and Ialways knew, hey, water
stations and we'll be fine.
So my wife and I showed uptotally unprepared.
I just dehydrated to the bonehalfway through because there's
no water stations on a beast andI blacked out mile eight.
(36:19):
I couldn't tell you, and evenlike the day after the race,
what happened between mile eightand mile 12.
I just saw my elite sign, I sawmile 12 sign, that's all I know
.
I think my brain woke back up.
It's like my papa, bio-pop areclose.
So it's just so crazy.
And I wanted to give up priorto that myelite so many times
(36:40):
and I was like, nope, keep going, keep going, keep going.
And to agree to your point, youteach yourself that over and
over and over again out there,how many times did you tell
yourself one more step, one morestep, one more step, step.
Just 500 million times becauseyour body's cramping, every
muscle hurts.
You're just when you get thatdehydrated.
(37:02):
Every step hurts.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
So so understanding the we, we call this in in track
and field.
We call this track math.
When you're running a trackrace and you start doing all the
math in your head of okay, I'vegot 1100 meters to go, that's
going to take me four minutesand 10 seconds.
I'll start my kick 90 secondsfrom the finish line, so I only
(37:30):
have two minutes and 40 secondsof suffering and you end up
figuring out time and meters toa very precise level.
And it's all because you'retrying to put context around
your own suffering.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
So I totally get that yeah, it's, it's so true and
even relate that mentaltoughness is the general level,
like here's an example from thisweek, five days ago for myself,
where I, back in 2020, tore myright chest in two spots while
benching.
I went into a completelyunwarmed up by exhausted
(38:05):
mitrapsis.
I wasn't thinking, a brain was500 million of the places, tried
doing two 45, ended up rippingit in two spots.
So I had that mental block foryears Like don't go above two 45
.
Don't even hit two 45, stop attwo 35 and that's it.
And then I had such a stressfulday Monday and I was just like I
(38:27):
need to burn energy and Istarted benching and I was like
what the fuck do I care about anumber?
Why are you putting so muchthought into a number?
It's just a number.
Like fuck it, let's just do it.
So I got a spot, obviously toplay it safe.
Knocked out three reps, noproblem.
So I was like all right, I got245.
(38:48):
Let's go up again.
So it's 255.
Knocked out two reps.
I was like 265?
So I like 265.
So I got 265 on the bar.
I went to go down to do a repand I thought the kid that was
spotting me grabbed the bar so Ilike I held it at the bottom.
I was like let go of the bar,let go of the bar.
And then I pushed it up and Idid another rep of it and he
(39:08):
goes, bro, I wasn't touching thebar, you did a pause rep.
I was like 275.
So I threw 275 in the bar andthen got that and that's where I
stopped.
But like you're telling me thatin four days time spent from
last time I did chess, I bumpeda 40 pound increase on bench
(39:31):
press impossible.
So that just means I heldmyself back for who knows how
long from going heavier becauseI got stuck in my own way.
So it just shows that sometimeswhen our brains think we're
done, we're only halfway throughand we still have double of
that output, whether it'srunning, whether it's lifting,
(39:52):
pretty much anything in life togive, to go beyond, to push
ourselves to beyond specificlimits.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, and this happens in the running world too
, and probably the number onescenario where I see this happen
among runners that I'm workingwith is they don't think they
can run more than a certainamount per week and a lot of
times it's 30 miles a week, 35,40 miles per week, because
anything more than 30 to 40miles per week and you're
(40:22):
starting to get into some decentmileage numbers.
You might see some collegiaterunners running 50 or 60 miles a
week and that's intimidating toa lot of runners and the number
of runners that I have kind ofeasily gotten to some of those
higher mileage numbers andthey're like oh, I actually feel
fine, this is very manageable.
(40:43):
I was holding myself back foryears because of this
preconceived notion that Icouldn't do it.
I was going to get hurt andthen all of a sudden, because
you know, this athlete'scapacity is so greatly increased
, they're running betterworkouts, they're running faster
races and, you know, theirentire running career has been
(41:04):
transformed.
The trajectory has just beencompletely changed and I just
love seeing that, because you'reright, a lot of the times that
we are holding ourselves back,it's just us holding ourselves
back, you know, and that's whereI think you know, having a
coach having that kind of maybeneutral third set of eyes around
you just to just kind of lookat things.
(41:25):
You know, hey, anthony, maybeyou can go beyond 245 with the
bench, maybe you can run morethan 40 miles a week, you know,
there's, there's a lot of waysin which an expert or someone
like that can really help youbreak through some of those
preconceived notions that youhave, and on the other side of
that is just a whole differentathlete that you could be.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Coaches are the best thing youcan pay for in all aspects of
life, and even the mostprofessional athletes have
coaches.
I train with my trainers, as anexample, I pay them, but I
still train with them because Ican always learn.
Just because their staffdoesn't mean I can't learn from
them, so I couldn't agree withyou more.
I think we're going to startwrapping this show up, jason,
(42:11):
but I'm going to ask you one funquestion, because I know you
know the answer.
I'm sure a lot of people don'tknow the answer, and it's
totally fun.
Why is it called the marathon?
It's such an odd mileage, sowhy is it?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
called the marathon.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh, you're testing my like historical uh running
trivia knowledge oh yeah so it'smy fun fact to bring with me
every time I show up at a race.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
This is a good fun fact.
So the original marathon, thefirst marathon ever run, was, I
believe, in ancient Greece orRome or Italy, and there was a
runner who ran to the city ofMarathon to tell the city people
that they had won the battle.
(42:56):
And he got there, he deliveredthe news.
He immediately collapsed anddied on the spot, which is the
kind of the lore of the marathonand and that's why it's called
the marathon.
Uh, but that wasn't actually26.2 miles, it was a different
distance and it's since beenstandardized to 26.2.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
and it's since been standardized to 26.2.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, you pretty much , nailed it Pretty much.
I don't know if it was.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Greece.
It was a war with the Persians.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Some of the finer details escaped me.
Yeah, he showed up, gave thenews, died, so they always think
that was the extent of humanrunning, yeah, and then we
decided to invent ultramarathons.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Like are we crazy sadistic, totally crazy.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Uh, but yes, the actual final two questions.
I'm going to ask you, super, tosummarize episode in one or two
sentences, but it'll be takehome message my take-home
message is that running is notnecessarily harder as hard as
you might think it is.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
If you give it a little bit of time and you
approach it with a strategicperspective, you can become a
much better runner than youthink you can be.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
I love that.
And where can people find you,get a hold of you and learn more
about strength running?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, I love that.
And where can people find you,get ahold of you and learn more
about strength running?
Yeah, so if you're a runner,you want to take your running to
the next level.
Strength runningcom is my homebase, but if you're into
podcasts, you can always checkout the strength running podcast
.
My podcast tries to treat youlike a pro runner, so I surround
you with you know the samesupport team a pro might have
the physical therapist, thestrength coaches, of course,
(44:37):
running coaches, sportspsychologists and you know a
whole bunch of thought leadersaround the sport who can help
you Accomplish your goals.
So check out the podcast.
You can check out strengthrunning's youtube channel if you
prefer video, but those are thethree best places to learn a
little bit more about strengthrunning and me.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I love it.
Jason, thank you so much forcoming on.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Health
and Fitness Redefined.
If you enjoyed this show, shareit with a friend.
It's the only way this showgrows.
And don't forget, guys, fitnessis medicine.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Health
and Fitness Redefined.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and share this show
(45:20):
with a friend, with a loved one,for those that need to hear it.
And, ultimately, don't forget,fitness is medicine.
I'll see you next time.
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