Blood Labs, Clear Answers

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Most lab reports end with a shrug: “You’re fine.” We think you deserve better than fine. This conversation is a practical guide to reading your blood work with confidence, using trends over time, and translating numbers into action you can stick with. Brent from Sage Healthspan joins us to unpack why “normal” ranges aren’t the goal in a metabolically unwell population, how a closed-data AI can protect privacy while clarifying your results, and which overlooked biomarkers can change your prevention plan.

We walk through the markers that move the needle. For cardiovascular risk, ApoB outperforms total cholesterol, while Lp(a) can reveal a genetic risk hidden in standard panels and point you toward a timely calcium score. Men should treat PSA as a low-friction lifesaver rather than an afterthought. Women deserve complete hormone panels, not piecemeal tests that miss the bigger picture. We also break down composite markers, ratios, and biological age as motivators—useful not as verdicts, but as guides to your next best step.

The episode connects labs with real life. Sleep, training load, season, and environment all shape your biology. Wearables like Oura can inform when to push or pull back; vitamin D shifts with sunlight; fasting changes testosterone; and context matters as much as the number itself. We share how Sage ingests historical labs, normalizes units, explains biomarkers in plain English, and even drafts smart questions you can email to your doctor so every appointment counts. The aim is simple: lower friction, improve clarity, and build health agency that compounds over time.

If you’re ready to move from “okay” to optimal, tune in and learn how to centralize your data, fill panel gaps affordably, and make better daily choices backed by evidence. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s ready to own their health, and leave a review to help more listeners find the show.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
This is Health and Fitness Redefined, brought to
you by Redefined Fitness.
Hello and welcome to Health andFitness Redefined.
I'm your host, Anthony Amen, andtoday we got another great
episode for all of you today.
Little life updates, likealways.
Last week, you know, I kind ofdropped the news.

(00:23):
If you haven't listened to thatepisode, I totally ripped my
chest in half.
So eagle lifting, as we know,not the way to go.
Something I preach on the showall the time, and yet sometimes
you just get in your own way.
But it's alright.
It's it showed me that, youknow, even the mighty can fall,
and the best way to recovery isto stay active, keep moving.

(00:44):
Uh we're like 20 or 40 dayspost-op at this point.
I'm sleeping pain free.
I've been pain free for twoweeks already, and uh I'm
supposed to only get like a fivepercent flexion on my shoulder,
and I'm at 40% active.
So I'm totally frozen throughthis.
And a lot of the a lot oflessons I've relearned along the

(01:06):
way and really solidified tomyself that fitness is truly a
form of medicine, and instead ofhearing people tell you that you
shouldn't work out, you actuallyshould work out, even though it
goes against uh conflictingtheories, it makes you feel
better, it helps you movebetter, and overall our our
bodies are just meant to uh healin motion.
So that kind of ties intotoday's show anyway.

(01:27):
So without further ado, let'swelcome to today's show.
Brent Brent, it's a pleasure tohave you today.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
It's good to be here.
Thanks.
I mean, it's an amazingtestament to your resilience uh
resilience that we're we'rehaving this this uh this
discussion, even right.
So I'm I'm glad that you're ableto recover quickly and and we're
able to talk.

SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Yeah, me too.
I I analytics my favorite thingin the entire world.
Blood work, my favorite thing inthe entire world.
So this is gonna be right up myalley, and we really haven't had
anyone with an engineeringbackground talk about a little
of this before.
So this would be really cool tosee how that all plays a role.

(02:04):
We've heard it more from thephysician side of it and more
from the gym side of it than theengineering side.
So without further ado, tell usa little bit about your
background in engineering andhow that got you to Sage Health.

SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yeah, totally.
Um, I mean, listen, there's acouple different versions of
this story, and it's likeanything, right?
It's like uh a bunch ofdifferent factors in your life
coalesce around one thing, andthis one thing has really just
become sage over the past coupleyears.
I would say, you know, I've beenrunning businesses sort of at
the intersection of health andtechnology and nutrition for the
last 25 years.
So I've certainly seen what'sgoing on in the universe and and

(02:38):
how this whole, the, the whole,the whole world works from the
from the business perspectiveand the health perspective.
Um, you know, even you know, foreight years running a company
called Metagenics, servingserving healthcare practitioners
that are that do this for aliving.
Um, but but really what drove meto this was going to see my
doctor a couple years ago, likewe all do, and uh, you know,
having my blood drawn during thevisit.

(03:00):
And I was leaving, the doctor,you know, said, Hey, listen,
I'll call you if something'swrong.
And I just remember like theuncomfortable feeling um that I
had when when he said that.
Uh, because I'm not looking,well, certainly I want to know
if something's wrong, uh, butthat's not, you know, that's not
the driving force between, youknow, behind sort of the
interaction I want to have withmy with my doctor, with my
healthcare professional.

(03:21):
I want to talk about you knowhow I can live my best life for
as long as possible.
Um, and really we just didn'thave the time for that
conversation.
And and so yeah, I walked away.
He said, I'll call you ifsomething's wrong.
So obviously we didn't have achance to review my blood work.
A few weeks went by, I didn'tget a phone call.
So, you know, you're sittinghome going, okay, I guess
everything's okay.
Um, but it's like, all right,I'll just find out.

(03:42):
So I I uh picked up the phone,called the practice, got the
person at the front desk, and Isaid, All right, did my blood
work come in?
She said, Yeah, it's been in fora few weeks.
And I said, Well, what's it say?
She goes, Well, there's no noteshere, so I guess everything's
okay.
I'm like, Did did somebody evenreview it?
Um, she's like, Oh, I'm suresomebody did.
Uh, you know, so there's just alot of ambiguity there.

(04:02):
Uh, you know, fortunately, shesent me uh a copy of the results
and and uh there wasn't anythingwrong, which is great.
Um, but you know, there wasthere were a few things that
weren't right.
There were a few things thatweren't perfect.
Um, I certainly, you know, I'mabout to be 50 years old, my
birthday's in a couple weeks,which is exciting.
Uh, I certainly don't feel likeI did when I was 40 or 30.
Um, you know, get into the gymsa little bit harder than than it

(04:23):
was before.
And uh, you know, certain thingsin my body, you know, continue
to work, but maybe not as wellas they could.
And so, you know, I was curiousat what was really going on.
So I spent, you know, a coupledays uh asking Dr.
Google, so to speak, about myblood work and you know,
throwing stuff into AI.
And I realized, okay, well,there's a business opportunity
here.
There's a problem to solve.
Let's help people really deeplyunderstand their blood lab

(04:45):
results.
Let's help people understand umuh what all these different
biomarkers are, because I dothink it's a little bit of a
black box, right?
Uh we tend to look at things inisolation.
You'll only look at something ifit's sort of abnormal.
Um, but there's a lot of thingsin there that that change over
time.
So what's actually really fun isyou can um, you know, the tool
that we built, you can take anyblood lab you've ever done.

(05:06):
And, you know, I've been doingblood labs.
I'm gonna be 50 this year, soI've probably got 20 different
uh labs in my in my history andvarious EMRs around the world.
And I was able to take it andput it together and put it into
one place and look at thesetrends over time.
And what you notice is sure,there's a lot of things that are
normal, but there's a lot ofthings that aren't the same as
they were uh 20 odd years ago.
And I think a lot of those arejust opportunities to go after.

(05:28):
So you have to understand, okay,what is a neutrophil?
What is a basophil?
Uh, what are all the differenttypes of cholesterol that that
I'm looking at?
Um, you know, I certainly askedmyself the question too, did the
did the blood panel that mydoctor ordered, was it the right
blood panel for me?
Was it comprehensive enough?
Um, because there were certainthings that were missing too.
Like I didn't see PSA.
Um, I think I listened to someradio program with with Ben

(05:49):
Stiller talking about prostatecancer, and he's a a big
advocate for um you know earlytesting for prostate, uh PSA
testing.
I I'd never had one.
I'd never had a PSA test.
So there were certainly gaps.
Uh so you know, you you connectall these things together.
How do you understand your bloodlabs?
How do you think aboutoptimizing yourself over time?
How do you make sure you'regetting the blood panels?
And out of that, you know, we wewe built Sage HealthSpan.

(06:11):
Uh so Sage, you know, in itssimplest form, is uh is an app
uh on your iPhone, and you caneither upload or scan in any
blood lab you've ever had.
And we use on-device AI, sowe're never sending your data to
the cloud.
We use on-device AI to take allthat data, pull it off the page,
or pull it out of the PDF, orpull it out of the picture, or
whatever, put it in aconsolidated form, normalize it

(06:32):
over the years.
So if you've had blood panelsthat were done at different
labs, sometimes they usedifferent um, you know, metrics,
you know, millimoles perdeciliter or grams per liter or
whatever it may be.
We normalize it, we look at itover time, and then in really
plain English, we help youunderstand what it is.
Uh so what are the differentbiomarkers?
What do they mean?
What does high mean?
What does low mean?
And what are some ideas ofthings that you can do about it?

(06:53):
So hopefully it's really clearto understand it.
We do have some more advancedfeatures, like if you've done
the right things, we'llautomatically calculate your
biological age.
We think that's really fun uhand interesting.
Um, you know, it's a nicecomposite market that marker
that tells you sort of if you'reon track or off track on a lot
of different uh importantaccesses.
And then we also have our ownproprietary LLM that we will

(07:15):
send your data to completelyanonymously and completely
privately, where we've actuallytaken some of our favorite
functional medicine doctors andgot them to build this massive
data set dissecting bloodpanels.
So, what does low mean?
What is high mean?
What are some best practices?
What is optimal?
Um and so we we we apply yourdate your data to that database

(07:38):
and use an LLM to come up with aquick summary using AI of how to
best understand your healthmarkers.
And one of the most fun thingsis it'll give you 10 questions
that you can ask your doctor,and with a click of a button,
you can actually just emailthose questions to your doctor.
So next time you're sitting infront of your doctor looking at
your blood panel, you can havethat meaningful conversation
that I didn't get to have.
Um, because really what we'relooking to do is help build

(07:59):
those great relationships withyour doctor so that you can live
your best life.
That was a lot of talking, butum, hopefully that's a brief
enough summary for what we'retrying to do.

SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
No, it's a good overarching view of what I'm
looking for.
And I now I want to get a littlemore specific.
And I think the first questionthat comes to mind, maybe it's
because I'm addicted, is to AIitself and what training level
has that AI undergone to reallygive recommendations and track.

(08:29):
So how do you program it to makesure it's accurate as opposed to
uploading to Chat GPT, forexample?

SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
100%.
So the first thing is we'rereally applying, we're really
using our proprietary LLM on aclosed data set.
So the the LLM is not going outthere in the ether and pulling
God knows what data and andtrying to apply that information
to you.
It's pulling really only thebest recommendations that we've
got from our favorite functionalmedicine doctors.
Uh so we got a bunch of doctorsaround, we built this massive

(08:58):
data set, we know the data isperfectly accurate, and so we're
applying the AI, we're applyingyour data to that data set, and
the AI can't go outside of thatwalled garden, for lack of a
better way to put it.
Um, and you know, to your point,we're training all the time.
So uh, you know, one of the wayswe think about it is sort of
every person that participatesin Sage and gives us some of
their data, uh, you know, wecertainly anonymize it, but each

(09:21):
piece of data helps the entiredata set get better, um, right?
Because we're trying tounderstand that uh in a in a
meaningful way.
And I would say that's kind of,you know, there's there's a lot
of nuance and subtlety here too,right?
Because we can get into thedebate between what's a normal
level, what's an optimal level.
Um, you know, that's a reallybig discussion.
I mean, what is it, 68% ofAmerica today uh has some sort
of metabolic dysfunction.

(09:42):
And when you know you're lookingat sort of what's a normal
biomarker, well, they're justgonna take a normalized curve
and say, okay, the middle ofthat curve is what normal is.
Well, if 68% of America ismetabolically not optimal, let's
just say that, uh, that meansnormal is nowhere near optimal,
right?
Normal includes that that 68% ofAmerica.

(10:02):
And so, you know, we've spent alot of time talking with our
favorite functional medicinedoctors and thinking through,
okay, what actually is optimal?
And so when our AI is giving yourecommendations, it's actually
thinking through thoserecommendations based on what is
the optimal place to be for somany of these biomarkers.
Uh so I you know, I would sayour AI is is as good as as can

(10:23):
as as we can have at this pointright now, uh, but certainly
it's always getting better,right?
Because what gets interesting,especially with with biomarkers,
is I think we're so used to inmedicine today looking at them
in isolation.
So you're looking at them as asnapshot instead of looking at
them over time.
And I think you know what theseAIs have the power to do, and
and we're in the early days ofthis, right?

(10:43):
But it'll get better and better,is really see those subtle
changes that have happened overtime and understand that in a
more profound way than you knowmost doctors would even have the
time to notice on your on yourbio on your you know on your
lab.
I also think there's a ton ofinterplay, which is interesting,
between biomarkers, right?
So, you know, what is theinterplay between your
cholesterol and your glucoselevels?

(11:04):
Uh, what is the interplaybetween this hormone and that
hormone?
You know, we kind of like tothink about it, we spend so much
time thinking about uh, youknow, biomarkers in isolation.
This biomarker itself is notnormal while the others are.
But it's more subtle than that,right?
We like to think, okay, when youlisten to a symphony, you're not
just listening to oneinstrument, you're listening to
how all these instruments cometogether.
And certainly the complexity ofour biology, I think, requires

(11:27):
us to look with that level ofnuance at our biomarkers if
we're really ever going to thinkabout optimizing.
And so it's really Sage startsto open up the door to be able
to do that, um, which is prettyexciting for us.

SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff like you mentioned,
like recommended and optimal,just to give like quick specific
examples, vitamins, for example.
There's an RDA recommended dailyallowance, and there's an
optimal daily allowance, andthey're putting two totally
completely different numbers.
And then my favorite, I thinkthe most misunderstood is body
temperature.
Like the like an average bodytemperature of a being is 98.6.

(11:59):
But I've remember as a kid, I ifyou take my temperature right
now, it's 97.4, me beinghealthy.
So when my body temperature wentto 99, I had a fever, but the
nurse would say if it's not over100, you don't have a fever,
it's like, but I'm dying.
Like I feel like shit.

SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Yeah.
So and I mean, and there's somany examples of that.
Like, I mean, I probably getmore personal than you want to
hear, but like, you know, I'mgetting into 50 and I go to
CrossFit every day, and all myCrossFit buddies that are also
50-ish, right?
We're all sitting around going,okay, is it time to start
thinking about testosterone?
Like it's a little bit harderto, you know, uh grow our muscle
than it was, you know, earlieron.
And, you know, maybe the thelittle bit of fat I carry around

(12:38):
my midsection is, you know, alittle bit a little bit harder
to uh to keep to keep at bay, soto speak.
Um, so okay, is is is now theright time to for testosterone.
I mean, one of the fortunatethings is I do have 25 years of
data.
And so I've actually never beena person with super high
testosterone.
My testosterone is usually inthe low 400s, but today it's
actually still in the low 400s.

(12:58):
So probably I'm not a greatcandidate for TRT.
And and um, you know, I thinkthat comes out of, okay, if I
were to just look at mytestosterone today, I can say
I'm very much on the low side ofnormal.
Maybe it's time to startthinking about options.
Um, but if I, you know, if I canlook at my history and I can
look at the changes over time,I've been between, let's call
it, 412 and 420 for 25 years.

(13:19):
Um, so that's also one of thevery fortunate things um, you
know, when you have all thisdata and you can see it, you
know, continuously over time.

SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
Yeah, testosterone is another example because
there's such a wide range ofwhere men sit.
And then you're taking asnapshot, like you said, up to
someone's test levels, and thatcould be a lot lower than what
they used to be.
And that's what that personfeels drowsy, lethargic, and is
a good candidate for tea ortestosterone.

SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Or, you know, and have they been fasting, right?
Like if you're fasting and allyour testosterone's bound, like
of course your your freetestosterone is going to look
awful, right?
So all of these nuances are soimportant to understand, right?
Uh as you're looking at yourblood work.
Um, and and we think like noneof this is is rocket science.
Like we think, you know, everyperson out there has the right

(14:03):
to understand this.
I think for so many years, we'vejust kind of decided that it's
too complex and let this blackbox exist in medicine.
But I mean, I'm sure you've, youknow, you have the same
experience, right?
You bounce up against medicine,little by little you realize,
okay, my health is actually notsomething that I'm just blessed
with or not blessed with.
It's something that I canactually try to improve over
time.
It's a skill I can learn,understanding my health,

(14:25):
understanding these biomarkers.
These are all skills I canlearn.
Uh, I may not get it all rightthe first time, but it's it's
like any journey that we're onwith, with, with, you know,
whether it be fitness or inbusiness or or learning, um, the
skill of health is something wecan all get much better at uh if
we apply ourselves to it and weyou know feel some agency and
control over our healthtrajectory.

(14:45):
Um, and so I think that'ssomething that's really really
critical for folks tounderstand.
And I don't think biomarkers areare the exception.
I think they're they're insidethe realm of what everybody
should have a good feeling of.
Like, you know, I'm not sayingwe should all sit at the bar and
and uh and and you know know ourcholesterol numbers and and you
know be able to tell our friendsabout it.
But you know, I can't tell yousince I've been at Sage and it's

(15:06):
it's it's one of those things.
I can't tell you when you starttalking to anybody that you meet
um about what I'm doing here atSage, every one of them has a
story to be like, well, youknow, my AST and my ALT last
time I was at the doctor was alittle bit high, uh, but I don't
know what that means.
Well, why?
Why live with that uncertainty?
Let's figure it out, let's helpyou put it together.

(15:26):
Um, and and I think everybody'sgot a little bit of a story like
that around some of theirbiomarkers.

SPEAKER_00 (15:31):
Yeah, and you're starting to see more and more
people track more biomarkers.
Me, for example, personally, Ijust went ahead and bought an
aura ring, right?

SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
So great.
I mean I oh actually not wearingmine, but it's charging because
I I just woke up.
Uh but I'm I you know I've beenusing aura for for 10 years.
It's awesome, right?

SPEAKER_00 (15:48):
It's I it's three weeks in.
I wanted to track my sleep.
I literally bought right beforewe took my chest.
So but I was always like, let mefigure out how to take my sleep
into my own hands because I'vealways been someone who
struggles with sleep happening.
And obviously my mind's notbeing overweight, it's just
something I've had my entirelife, and it's how can I learn

(16:08):
different behaviors to enhancemy sleep and make myself better.
And there's a bunch of the stuffon there that I love about being
in control.
And then you take your bloodwork and you're being in
control.
And I think the way where AI isheaded is it will know a
complete picture of somebody andthen be able to take all the
biomarkers from all thesedevices and then spit out
exactly what's recommended foryou, even on a deeper level,

(16:32):
which is when you add ingenetics to the that component.
So what what are my genes uhshowing that other people's
genes aren't showing, whetherthat's uh sex or ethnicity,
because we all have differentbiomarkers even inside of that
of what's important and what'snot important.
So it's pretty interesting tolook at and how we can uh take
everything all together at once.
I mean, my idea for even thepersonal training side of it is

(16:56):
we are building a new app.
I mean, I was thinking 10 yearsfrom now, but you're already
ahead of it is taking an AI likeyours, taking an AI like Aura,
plugging that into all theexercises we're doing with
people, and having a person justsay, Hey, what do I need to do
today to optimize everythingbased upon my markers?
And then it's out a workoutprogram for us, it picks out

(17:17):
nutrition for them based uponthat specific individual and
what they're doing.
Hey, how am I trending over thelast uh seven days from all this
activity and stuff I've beendoing?
And it can give them prettyclose to accurate data.

SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Yeah, and it's not just what's best for me, but
it's also like what's best forme today.
Because what's best for me todaycould be different than what's
best for me a week from now.
Like I we're big fans of or atSage.
Um, like I said, I've been usingit for years, and it just keeps
on getting better and better.
It's so interesting to look at,you know, sort of correlate,
okay, what am I having greatworkouts to um, you know, what
was my heart rate last night?

(17:51):
Was my heart rate elevated?
What is my recovery score?
Um, you know, a lot of thatstuff becomes really interesting
to think about internally andcorrelating that.
You know, at Sage, one of thethings that that we we deeply
believe in is that we have allthis data around us, and so much
of it is underutilized.
Uh, and so you know, it is onour roadmap to add a lot more
than just blood to what we'redoing at Sage.
We're gonna actually roll outurine tests uh in the next few

(18:14):
weeks.
We think there's a lot we cantell by looking at your hair,
skin, and nails over time, howthose things are changing and
evolving based on the season.
There's a ton of environmentaldata we can pull.
Like I know where your phoneknows where you are, which means
your phone knows your pollencount every day.
It knows the level of pollutionin the air every day, it knows a
lot of things about what'shappening environmentally around

(18:34):
you.
I can absorb that and understandthat.
And then certainly we canconnect with things like Apple
Health or Google Fit or whateverit may be and any other wearable
that you're using, we can ingestthat data and again apply that
thinking to what's happeninginside, you know, inside Sage.
We we kind of think the futureis a little bit of a, it's a
kind of a an oxymoron of aconcept, but sort of

(18:55):
self-administered conciergemedicine, where um, you know,
you your phone should be thecenter of your health life and
and have all of your health dataand be able to see the
interconnections and patterns inyour health data in meaningful
ways that really only some ofyour best doctors can get.

SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more.
I think you're kind of right onthe right path with that, is to
give everything all in onespecific place and really track
everything as you're as you'regoing along.
And I think that's so cool thatyou're headed into the urine
part of it, you're headed intothe skin part of it.
It really adds more of a biggerpicture to it.
I mean, I think it would bereally cool if like to say you

(19:34):
partnered with aura, youpartnered with Ancestry, and now
you're getting all of that dataup on the route and really give
a person's like an individualjourney of where they should be
and what they should be going onas a person.
And even just breaking downsimple but I want to get to like
a little more specific of likewhat exactly markers and stuff
we're looking for inside ofblood work.

(19:55):
Because I don't I think a lot ofpeople don't understand.
Let me phrase that.
I know a lot of people don'tunderstand blood work because I
always say, Hey, let's bring ablood work and let me look at it
for you.
And they go, You can read that.
I was like, Do I know absolutelyeverything on there?
No.
Do I know 80% of it?
Absolutely.
Can I give you goodrecommendations?
Absolutely, and we can helpintegrate this in because, like

(20:18):
you said, doctors don't likediscussing it.
I think it's a timed issue morethan anything.
Like I'm always ripping ondoctors, but I'm really not.
They just don't have time.

SPEAKER_01 (20:26):
So you know, it's it's you know, yeah, it it's
it's easy to sort of it it's thesystem, right?
The system's the problem, notthe individuals.
I've I've exactly have so manygreat friends that are amazing
doctors, and you know, not oneof them got into medicine to
only see people for five minutesat a time and miss a bunch of
stuff in their labs and uh youknow have this this sort of
awful experience um that they'reenabling.

(20:48):
But the system doesn't make iteasy, right?
You know, you wish, you know,the the system was was almost
developed in the days when weall lived in small towns and
there was a doctor that was thesame doctor from sort of birth
to death of everybody in thetown and knew what was going on
and you know understood how oursocial lives and behavior in the
town and how our parentsinteracted with us and what our
parents you know had orwhatever.
Like they were able to practicecomprehensive medicine just by

(21:10):
being part of the same communitythat we lived in.
And you know, today it's justimpossible for doctors to have
that level of access to what'sgoing on so that they're you
know, the the instincts thatthey train and you know when
they study medicine uh are ableto really empower you as an
individual to live your bestlife.

SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
So I want to ask you specifically, what's one or two
uh uh uh biomarkers you'relooking for inside of blood
work?
What do you recommend people tosay, hey, these are the top one,
two, or three uh results I wantyou to look at, I don't want you
to track.
Because I mean, our stand-upblood panel is huge for most
people, it's like three and ahalf pages long.
So what are specific ones you'relooking at or telling people to

(21:46):
look at?

SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
So I I would say in two ways.
Like what, like the the if Ijust think about what are the
things that that sage users,what has been the most
illuminating for them that youknow we get feedback to say, oh
my God, this is happening.
Um, one, and then two, like whatdo we see as most missed by sort
of just your annual physicalwhen you're getting, I don't
know, somewhere between 22 and32 biomarkers measured.

(22:07):
Um, the the three big ones for aman is this the first is PSA.
I think every man over 35 shouldget their their PSA tested every
couple of years.
Um, nobody should die fromprostate cancer.
The fact that there's stillupwards of 40,000 men a year
dying from prostate cancer isjust an unbelievable tragedy.
If you know your PSA and you canstay ahead of it, no one should

(22:28):
ever die from that.
Uh so that's a big one uh formen.
I would say for men and women,uh, one of the ones that's been
very illuminating for a lot offolks is LP little A.
Uh so your LP little A, it's ait's a genetic thing.
Yeah, if you have high LP littleA, likely you have you know high
genetic, genetically of high,you're gonna have high
cholesterol.
Uh, and you're not gonna be ableto see it just at looking at

(22:48):
your overall cholesterolnumbers.
Uh so that's also been superilluminating for folks where
they'll get a they'll get theirLPA tested and realize, okay,
I'm pretty high.
I need to go out and get mycalcium score checked.
In almost every case wherethat's happened, the calcium
score has been way higher thanfolks had expected it to be.
Uh, and they've been able to geton a therapeutic program to
optimize them.
So LP little A, I think is animportant one.

(23:10):
It's one of those you don't haveto get tested regularly.
You kind of need to get ittested once just so you know,
are you genetically uh sensitiveto that?
Are you not geneticallysensitive to that?
Um, and then you know, anotherinteresting one we think around
cholesterol is is your AP isyour uh APOB.
Uh understanding where thatsits, that's probably the best
um the best biomarker we can saywe can look at for where are you

(23:32):
in that that journey of you knowacquiring atherosclerosis.
We're all gonna get a little bituh the longer we live, right?
Um, but where are you on thatjourney?
And I think your APOB isprobably your best, your best uh
biomarker to look at for that.
It's not an expensive thing tocheck.
Um and and um you know, we'llwill give you some great insight

(23:52):
into where you are.
Um and it's actually not commonto get.
I would say those are three bigones.
On the women's side, I wouldsay, you know, the a little bit
of the tragedy that we think uhwe're seeing, especially as
women are getting into sort oftheir middle ages, um, you know,
late 30s, 40s, is really justlooking, they're only looking at
one or two uh hormones andthey're looking at them in

(24:13):
isolation.
So they'll maybe get anincomplete thyroid panel, or
they'll maybe just look at theirestrogen without checking their
progesterone and testosteroneand everything else.
So we think you know what'scritical for most folks is to
get comprehensive hormonepanels, and especially women as
they're getting into their 40sneed to be need to be monitoring
that very closely so that theycan sort of see how that's
modulating over time.

(24:34):
Those are, I would say, are someof the most important ones that
folks should be uh looking at.
And those are some of the thegaps that we see most often in
just your standard annualphysical blood test.
And I think that's a little bitof the interesting thing about
developing health agency aswell, is really saying, okay, my
doctor is recommending thispanel to me, but I'm actually
not even sure why he or she arerecommending are recommending

(24:54):
that panel to me.
Are they giving me that panelbecause that's the panel they
give everybody?
And do they give it to everybodyall the time?
Is that the panel that theythink is just the most often
reimbursed by insurance, andthey don't want to have to deal
with a call in six weeks thatsays, my insurance doesn't cover
this, so why did you test it?
I mean, why do doctors pick thepanels that they pick?
I think more often than not, ithas to do with some of those

(25:15):
things.
It's just the basic standardthat they do, and it's what's
most often reimbursed so thatthey don't have to deal with an
upset consumer, an upset patientuh somewhere down the road that
they had to cash pay something.
Um, so so you know that's whatwe think is important.
I also think testing frequencyis important.
I do think most of us need avery comprehensive panel at

(25:35):
least once a year.
And if and if things aren't inthe optimal range, maybe more
than once a year.
Um, so I do think that's theother thing to be checking on is
hey, are you getting your annualcheckup?
I mean, we all go twice a yearto the dentist.
Uh, we probably go once or twicea year to the to the
optometrist.
Um, if we're not getting acomprehensive blood panel at
least annually, I think there'sa big miss there.

SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
I would even throw it in the same time of year
annually, because I just thinkof silly examples like vitamin
D3, right?
Your vitamin D levels are gonnabe way higher in the summer than
they are in the winter.
So testing that exposure on anannual basis will be huge.
You might be more active in oneseason over the other as well.

SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
So I'm absolutely I mean, and you know, I've never
seen anybody north of the MasonDixon line that doesn't need to
supplement vitamin D.
I mean, it's just it's just it'sjust gonna be the case, right?
That uh uh, you know, that'sjust the way it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
Yeah, I I totally agree.
I'm lucky enough in the summer Idon't need to.
I literally live outside.
I'm just like I get as much sunas possible in the winter, it's
impossible.
Oh, totally, totally.
It's zero degrees outside, youlook at it, you go, no.
Yeah, not happening.

SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Not happening.
Or you know, or you're just toocovered up, right?
I mean, you're wearing longsleeves or or whatever it may
be, right?
So um, yeah, yeah, it's I youknow, I think I I think just
being aware of of all thesethings is so important.
Um uh and it's you know, it'sit's certainly something Sage
can help you stay ahead of.
You know, we're we're happy tosell you comprehensive panels if
you ever want to uh uh buy them.

(27:03):
Um or you know, we'll we'llanalyze where you have gaps in
your in your blood work andwe'll just sell you the things
that you're missing as well.
So, you know, we're happy to tomake sure that you have the
complete picture.

SPEAKER_00 (27:14):
Yeah, and uh to your point about asking physicians, I
have to ask all the time forspecific blood work because they
don't they want to give you astandard blood panel and like
you said, that's what they'regonna get reimbursed on, but
that's what they're just doingfor everybody because they don't
want to get a call later.
So I always ask, well, can we dothis, can we do this, can we do
this?
And then sometimes they get no,but a lot of people also don't
know.
You can actually go out to thoselabs directly and pay out of

(27:36):
pocket and it's dirty.
You gotta send a blood panel toget through request, which is a
local lab by us, for like tenbucks.
So that might even be more uhpractical for people if they
want to do that every six monthsor they want to do it every
quarter because your insurancemight only cover a once-a-year
annual, so you get theopportunity of really being on
track of it for not a lot ofmoney to follow through.

(27:59):
Total insurance company is a lothigher than you're paying out of
pocket for them.

SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Well, and yeah, you know, half the battle is knowing
what you're missing, first ofall, right?
Um so that you're gettingsomething comprehensive, and
then two is being able to go outand procure it and get it done.
Uh, you know, that is one of thethings we do at Sage, so we're
happy if you just get yourannual blood lab done at your
doctor and you want to uploadthat, we'll just tell you where
the gaps are that you need to gofill.
If you want to do thecomprehensive panel through us
too, like we offer wayreasonable prices.
We we're actually Quest is oneof our partners.

(28:25):
Um, so you know, we'll give youbetter pricing through Sage and
you'd get directly with Quest.

SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
Yeah, I I love that.
I think it's so important.
People keep an eye on exactlywhat's going on and really truly
understand.
I mean, cholesterol is initself, I I know I bring this up
a lot, but I think it's just soimportant.
You look at total cholesterollevels, it's not a good number.
And it's something everyonealways looks at.
My cholesterol is above 200,like I'm unhealthy.
And it just doesn't meananything.
Okay.
And it's hard to explain topeople like your total

(28:54):
cholesterol is so vague.
Like do you have is it actuallycausing any damage to your
arteries?
Is it is your LDL uh HDL ratiosuper off?
Like who cares about a totalcholesterol number?
I really want to know what'sgoing on with the other markers
to see if it's actually an issuefor me as opposed to just one

(29:17):
little basic screenshot of, oh,this is where you're at.
So I don't know if that'ssomething you you've seen as far
as like data coming back, thattotal cholesterol really doesn't
matter.
It's more important for uh thewire markers you mentioned, plus
LDL to HDL ratios.

SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
Yeah, listen, so much of this is in the nuance
and in the details, right?
I can certainly think ofexamples that we've had with
with consumers using Sage wherethey have a high cholesterol,
but they have no issue.
I can also think of a bunch ofexamples on the con, you know,
the contrary, they have lowcholesterol, but they actually
have a pretty big issue thatthey're not dealing with.
Right.
So you can always think of thosethings.
There's certainly, you know, somuch of medicine is like, okay,

(29:54):
let's for the first 90% ofpeople that we're seeing, like,
what is the minimum requiredthing that?
That you need to understand.
That's certainly a piece ofinformation, but it's it's just
such an incomplete piece ofinformation.
So I'm like, how do we take thenext step and the next step and
the next step?
And certainly the older you get,um, and you know, if there's any
other risk factors involved, uh,the more detail you have, the

(30:16):
more nuance you can understandfrom your from your biomarkers,
the better off you'll be.
You know, you were mentioningratios.
We're a big fan of a bunch ofcomposite markers.
That's actually one of thethings we do really nicely in
Sage as well, is we'll take thedata you have, and if there's
any composite markers that wecan help you evaluate and help
you understand, we'll do thatmath for you and we'll show you
which of the connections youshould be looking at to look at
these different ratios in thesedifferent ways together.

(30:37):
I mean, biological age, you cansit around and debate all day
long.
Is bioage a meaningful tool, anot a meaningful tool?
It's certainly something thateverybody's curious about.
Okay, where do I stand versus myactual age?
Am I younger than my actual age?
Am I older than my actual age?
Uh, you know, what is themeaning there?
What we think is listen, if itgets people to dig into their
blood work and understand it,we're thrilled.
Uh if it's something they that,you know, they're gonna care

(30:59):
about and they're gonna careabout in such a way that they're
gonna understand the details ofit, we're thrilled.
We kind of just see it as a yetanother composite marker, like
one of these ratios that'slooking at a bunch of different
things, comparing them andcontrasting them mathematically,
and then you're able to say,okay, if my bioage isn't, I
don't know, 10 years below myactual age, why not?
Uh if my bioage is over myactual age, okay, why or why

(31:20):
not?
And then there's usually ahandful of things in your in
your blood work that you can seereally aren't optimal.
And if that's the if that's thejourney you go on to find that,
I'm thrilled.
I don't actually care how peopleget to the get to the
destination as long as they'regetting to the destination.
They're getting involved intheir blood work and they care
about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
What do you think the next step uh of this is for
one us as a society and two justfor you guys in general?

SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
I think we kind of talked aboutit earlier.
You know, a lot of this isreally um, you know, the more
we're getting our datacentralized into one place, and
the easier that we can use theseAI tools to activate against
multiple pieces of data andcompare and contrast them in
meaningful ways, um, the betteroff we'll be.
I also think we can make thewhole lab testing process so

(32:07):
much simpler.
We're gonna we're gonna come outlater this year with an at-home
test process so that folks canactually just buy a little kit,
uh, draw themselves a littletiny vial of blood painlessly
out of their arm, send it intotheir lab and not have to leave
the comfort of their home.
You know, certainly you you mayhave a great experience at your
local Quest.
I don't mean to dis on Quest,but um, I've had a multitude of

(32:27):
experiences at Quest.
Some of them have beenwonderful, some of them have
been atrocious.
I do think uh the service modelat a lot of these labs is is is
not ideal.
And I do think like, yeah, halfthe battle is getting people to
just get the test done, right?
Like, let's get the data out ofyou, let's understand it.
Like that's usually the firsthurdle to overcome.
I imagine it's a little bit foryou too.

(32:47):
It's like, how do I just getpeople into the gym?
If I can get them into the gym,I can get them to take that
first step, I can get them to gosomewhere else.
So I think there's a lot of uh alot of parallels to that.
I mean, I don't know whatpercent of people in America
today are actually regular gymusers.
I think it's got to be probablya low single-digit number,
right?
So, how do you get that number?
I mean, if exercise is the bestlongevity drug out there, how
are we gonna get more and morepeople into the gym is a big

(33:10):
question.
And I think we're askingourselves the same question
about biomarkers and blood work.
Like, how do we get more andmore people engaged in their
blood work?
How do we get more and morepeople doing these sorts of
things regularly?
Because there's so many thingsthat people are sick from or
dying from today in America thatif they were ahead of this uh in
the right way, uh, you know,wouldn't be the pro they
wouldn't have the problems thatthey're having.

(33:30):
Uh and with so many of thesethings, like, okay, there may
not be that many points of noreturn.
There certainly are points of noreturn that if you get to them,
you can't go backwards.
But so many of these things, theearlier you start identifying
issues or weaknesses, the easierit is to modulate your behavior
so that you can control thatover time, right?
Like so much, so many things inthe world, the effect of
compounding is astounding.

(33:52):
Whether it's your level of afitness, it's it's also true in
your biomarkers.
Compounding is astounding.
And that goes in bothdirections.
You can compound towards theworse and you can compound
towards the better.
Um, and so it's you know,showing up every day, starting
early, and sticking with it forthe long term.
And that's really what's gonnachange the trajectory of health,
I think, uh, you know, in thiscountry.

SPEAKER_00 (34:11):
I think what's interesting to even look at
stats, like you mentionedbefore, it's rarer to have a
six-pack than it is to be amillionaire.
Like, think about that for for asecond.
You know, Legion 30, you're easyeasier to be a millionaire than
just to have a six pack.
One is definitely easier thanthe other.
I think the six pack's easierthan the millionaire, but it
just shows how little peopleeven try for it.

(34:32):
I mean, take that to what'sgonna be in the next 10 or 15
years, it's probably gonna berarer to like even be a normal
blood worker, like a bloodpanel, or just be your
biological age.
It's just the way trends are areare going.
It's pretty astounding thatpeople just don't more people

(34:54):
are joining Jin's, but we'regetting less healthier, and it's
something has to fix it.
I think that really comes to theeducation component, which is
why I'm a big believer in one ofthis show, one of the things
you're doing, and what we'redoing as a company as a self is
educating people with what todo.
I I love all the pushes that'sgoing on politically, but that's

(35:14):
uh coming even on a local levelwhere people are just getting
more involved and understandingwhat I need to do, how I need to
do it, what do these certainthings mean?
Instead of blindly trustingpeople that aren't an authority
in their field, uh just sillyexamples like a doctor.
I still just this bothers me somuch as I keep bringing it up.

(35:34):
But it feels like every week Ihave a client telling me the
doctor said it's not workingout.
And it's just like why?
And it just they just give youthe reason.
It's just like, no, actually,research shows is the exact
opposite, you should be workingout.
So as a doctor, I feel like atleast some they're so afraid of
getting sued, or they just don'thave enough time to really work

(35:55):
with the people.
They just say, Oh, just he'severything and it's sad what's
what's going on.
I I just had a woman today thathas uh uh lymphedemia and her
doctor said quit your gym but godo PT.
And he's just assuming I guesswe're just this dirty gross gym,
and it's like, no, like we'redoing way more than physical
therapy does in-house andtraining and education, and just

(36:18):
that's the first thought is justquit your gym.
No, like it's so hard for thiswoman to get here.
Now she's gonna put her quit,and it's gonna take her three
and a half years to get back, soyou're just doing her a
disservice.
Or I had another client eventhree days ago who told us that
uh we were recommending she eat,I think it was like 1700 1800
calories a day.
And she's like, Well, I asked mydoctor, he said he only eat 500

(36:38):
calories a day.
And I was like, 500 calories aday is anorexia.
Like that's not healthy in anyway, shape, or form.
Yeah, but my doctor knows morethan you.
It's like, yeah, maybe aboutlike other things, but not this,
right?
Like, I'm not gonna tell youthat the best cure for cancer is

(36:59):
this essential oil.
I'm gonna go say, like, nope, goto an oncologist, like, get
chemo, do whatever the hell theysay.
Like, that's the avenue to go.
So it's really justunderstanding who you're talking
to and gathering information,taking an AI which is totally
unbiased, right?
And having it dive through yourblood panels and giving you
specific recommendations andmarkers for an individual.

(37:20):
It's just gonna empower theperson with more education to
really make those right choicesbecause it'll start seeing those
trends, like, oh, what I'm doingis right.
So now we got the positivereinforcement factor back in.
Hey, I'm doing this, I'm gettinghealthier, I'm doing this, I'm
getting healthier.
And hopefully that spirals usinto a push to really now make
the average person superhealthy, lower all of our

(37:41):
biological aids, take theobesity rate from 67% to back
when it was like 45 years ago to5, 10%.
So I think information is powermore than anything in the entire
world.

SPEAKER_01 (37:53):
Yeah.
I the way we always talk aboutit at stage two is like um we
can't succeed, and it's true ofkind of everybody in healthcare,
we can't succeed unless peoplefeel a sense of health agency,
feel like they can control theirhealth trajectory and realize
it's like all things.
It's it's it's not something youhave and you don't have, and
it's it there's also not a lotof quick wins.
You kind of got to put in thehard work here.

(38:14):
Um, so it's it's not somethingyou can fix overnight.
Compounding matters.
Like compounding is probably themost important skill I think
anybody can learn, whether it'sfinance, fitness, health, you
name it.
Um, it's how to get yourself onthe right trajectory, how to
make those little decisionsevery single day that over time
build into great health.
Um, and so I think the thelanguage we use internally and

(38:34):
God only knows if it's right.
Um, but how do you create asense of health agency?
How do you help people feel likethey have control over their
health future?
They have that health essency,that's a huge first step.
I do think like we we had aculture and we have still
probably a predominant culturewhere health is something you
either have or you don't have.
And we sort of outsourcemonitoring that that I don't

(38:55):
know, that switch to a doctor.
And the reality is it's it's acontinuum.
Health is something that you canimprove over time.
Uh, you can improve how healthyyou are by learning new health
skills.
Uh, one of the critical healthskills we think is understanding
your data.
Uh, and so, you know, uh youbring up education, right?
That's how you that's how youacquire those skills.
You acquire those skills throughgreat education uh and through

(39:16):
thinking about things in theright way.
We think there's, you know, it'sit's like so many things, right?
If the world just got eighthours of great sleep, went to
the gym four or five times aweek, kept themselves into
calorie balance, had healthyrelationships, and kind of
stayed away from all the badcrap, um, you know, the whole
health trajectory of the worldwould be would be radically
different.
And so, you know, we're focusedon those core five things.

(39:37):
We're focused on helping peoplefeel a sense of agency over each
one of those pillars.
Um, and if they do, we thinkthey're gonna be on the right
path for the long term.
They're gonna be on the pathwhere, okay, they're starting to
make the right little decisionsevery day that lead to the great
health outcomes over the longterm.
Uh and so I think if people canget that mindset shift, uh,

(39:58):
think about health as a skill,think about learning and
building those skills over timeand really stick with it for the
long term, understand sort ofwhat is the minimum viable uh
amount of effort they need toput in to get on the path and
stay on the path.
Uh I mean, it's, you know,again, to use the the dumb
finance quote, sort of thebiggest sins in the world,
right, is when you get, youinterfere with compounding.

(40:18):
It's kind of what annoys meabout some of the stories you
tell about doctors saying to theto their patient, you know,
don't go to the gym.
Well, you just got in the way ofcompounding.
They actually were already on ajourney that was starting.
And anything that interfereswith compounding, that
interferes with the trajectory,the positive health trajectory
that you may be on, is just, youknow, it's one of the sacrileges
of the of the industry that yousee, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 (40:40):
I really, really couldn't agree more.
It just everyone has to get onthe same page, and that's why I
am a huge component, as scary asit may be, and maybe this is
Terminator, but like you have anAI that knows everything about
who you are, what you do, allyour blood work, all compounded,
and then you have someone tojust ask, hey, give me what uh

(41:05):
make a fish today, and it justspits everything out or run this
for me, and it runs that foryou.
And it's just easy to have allthat information together.
Now I go to the doctor and Isay, Hey, pull up all my blood
work for the last 20 years, showspecific trends.
I'm having pain, ABC, there'sany correlation.
And then the AI just shows thedoctor absolutely everything
about who you are, anindividual.

(41:26):
And then the doctor can ask theAI specific questions about you
because it's like the funnyexample of when we get uh
physical therapy clients comingover, and it's like, what are
you doing at PT?
You know, the thing.
And it's like, okay, cool.
Like that's so unhelpful.
So it's just being able to talkto someone who really
understands like the language ofthe doctor wants to hear, so the

(41:48):
AI can do that for the personbecause it knows everything
about them.
And going back, maybe that'll bethe end of humanity if it learns
all that, but or maybe it willbe the best thing in the entire
world.
Yeah, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
I mean, it's it's to me, it's like the, you know, uh,
again, we we think about it assort of the power of
personalization, right?
It's like if I can dial in thebest plan for you, you know, I'm
gonna hopefully make it easierthan it would have otherwise
been for you to get on thatjourney and stay on that
journey.
And that's really what it's allabout.
Like whether it's, you know, Idon't know what it what a silly

(42:22):
example would be, but um, youknow, the the more that we can
personalize your program, themore that we can personalize
what's right for you and helpyou understand why that's the
case, we think the easier it isto make the right decisions or
the better decisions and be onthe better trajectory.
Uh I'm I mean, I guess like thedumb example, right, is that you
can think about, I don't know.

(42:42):
Well, I don't want to go downthat road, but there's so many
different examples where like ifI can understand a few things
about your genetic profile, afew things about your
biomarkers, and a few thingsabout your current set of daily
habits, you know, I think it's alot easier for me to bake in
those moments in your day whereyou can actually start that
process of compounding uh anddeveloping those health skills
and and getting on thattrajectory that's gonna learn

(43:03):
those health skills.

SPEAKER_00 (43:04):
Um would be a meta party.
Hey, can I eat this piece ofcake or is it gonna screw my
blood work up?
And it goes, okay, you've been,you've hit ABCD, you're doing
great, you can afford to eatthat piece of cake, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
So I mean, listen, you know, I I you know, I don't,
I the example I was gonna giveis like, okay, let's say you're
uh, I don't know, you're you'reof Eastern European descent, so
you have a genetic profile of offolks that spent most of their
life in sort of, I don't know,the north or whatever, uh,
versus somebody that you knowhas the genetic profile of
someone that was in the in theMediterranean.
So why is somebody from thenorth overweight?

(43:38):
Well, maybe it's because they'reeating like a Mediterranean
rather than eating like a, Idon't know, a Viking.
I mean, I don't know what thewhat the example might be.
But those things are nicebecause I think what what they
do is, and if you can understandand personise to that, okay, why
am I struggling with my diet?
I'm struggling with my dietbecause I'm not making the
decisions that are ideal for mybody type.
If folks don't understand that,I think they feel really

(43:59):
helpless about um, you know,well, I didn't realize I was
making the wrong decision and Ididn't, I don't know how to make
a better decision.
Um, and if you're in that momentof helplessness, if you're the
victim to your genetics, ifyou're the victim to the system
for whatever that may be, you'renot gonna be on that path
towards a healthier and a and abetter journey.
That was kind of it's a s again,it's a it's a little bit of a

(44:21):
silly example, but I think it'sit's meaningful in the sense
that, yeah, it's it's about thatempowerment and that engagement.
I think, you know, it would benice if my phone kicked me every
time I, you know, my my friendsdecided to buy me a uh a beer.
Um, that's one way to go.
I think that's maybe where theterminator would go.
I think the other way to go isokay, how well do I metabolize
alcohol?
What are the pros and cons of ofhaving one or two drinks a week

(44:42):
or not with my friends?
Does the social benefit outweighthe physical um uh you know
issues that could come fromtrying to metabolize alcohol?
Like help me sort of weigh thepros and cons in that and help
me understand, okay, what is thebest decision for me?
Maybe I can metabolize a coupleof drinks a week, and that's
actually better for me, for myoverall health and function to
have those social moments withmy colleagues than avoiding it,

(45:05):
uh, you know, than the benefit Iwould get from not having those
couple of drinks.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion, but I think that's the
level of subtlety and nuancethat if we can start uncovering
that, you know, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
Because like Asian genetics, as an example, don't
metabolize alcohol well, whichis why they're most likely to
get alcohol poisoning.
It's just genetic in and of itsnature.
While you look at people from uhWestern European, like Ireland,
for example, really good atmetabolizing alcohol, but on the
flip side of that also havesuper high addiction issues.
So it's you're you're weighingin different pros and cons of

(45:36):
how our genes play.
Uh uh, the example you're usingabout food, fiber, for example,
is the best way to keep yourblood sugar in check, eating
high amounts of fiber.
And it's something I've beenpreaching for years.
But what I've learned with myown personal body and how I
metabolize food is the morefiber I had, the more my IBS
flared, the more it was painfulto go into the bathroom in the
morning, like severe pain.

(45:57):
So I took my diet and I went ona low fiber diet and I started
only really consuming meatproducts, uh, tied in with some
minor fruits and vegetables justto get some pre-probiotics in my
gut, and the pain went away.
I've had normal bowel movements.
It's like that general knowledgefor the general population of
focusing on eating high fiber isgreat, but there's certain

(46:18):
individuals that don't digestfiber that well, whether that's
insoluble or soluble fiber, andtherefore should eat lower
amounts of it, even though itmight be healthier to eat higher
amounts of fiber.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:31):
And it you know, and a lot of it too is understanding
sort of how that fits into youroverall health picture, right?
So fiber is a really fun one.
I'm I'm certainly not a fiberexpert, but I can imagine a
bunch of things, right?
Where it's like, okay, are youtaking fiber because you
actually want it to absorb somecholesterol in your GI tract
before it gets to yourbloodstream?
So it's about it's aboutcholesterol reduction.
Great.
I'm sure there's the right typeof fiber for it.
I think you brought it up.

(46:51):
Is it soluble?
Is it insoluble?
Are you just trying to beregular?
Are there other things that canbe doing to be regular?
Like if I'm am I just trying tomaintain a healthy microbiome
ecology in my system, right?
I mean, can I do that with a fewresistance starches rather than
going down some of the hardcorefiber routes, right?
So I think like how you helpindividuals make those
decisions, they can certainly doit by feeling, right?
You can certainly go on anelimination diet and add little

(47:12):
things back in and then whichmakes you feel the best.
I think that's probably moreonerous than most individuals
are willing to go down.

SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
Diet for that is the most miserable thing to do in
the entire world.
And I've failed almost everytime I've tried to do it, and so
most people.
So being able to get an exactgenetic marker of what to do
prior is the right decision.

SPEAKER_01 (47:31):
100%.
And you know, a lot of it too isokay, like it does it change
based on the seasons?
Does it change based on otherthings?
Like, should my diet befollowing, I don't know, like
wherever my genetics that Ishould be from?
What are the fruit andvegetables?
What is in season when?
Like, is that what my ideal dietshould be?
Again, I don't think we know theanswer to any of these
questions.
I there isn't a perfect diet.
I think the perfect diet is theone that makes you feel great

(47:52):
that you can stay on for thelong term and that keeps you in
calorie balance, right?
That's certainly what we thinkthe best diet is.
I'm not a I'm not an advocatefor one type of diet over
another, but I think the themost meaningful thing is like,
how can I find the diet that'sbest for you?
How can I find the diet thatsuits your genetic profile, your
biomarkers, that's helping youachieve achieve your
optimization goals that you canactually stick with every day.
If we get if we can get allthose components put together, I

(48:14):
think we have a win.
Um and so those are the types ofthings we think about over over
time.

SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Yeah, I I really couldn't agree more.
I think it's so important to getan idea of how your body moves,
functions, works, how you digestcertain things.
And I think what makes thisharder is being an American,
right?
Because you have now geneticmarkers from all over the place.
Like I have half my family isSicilian and the other half is
English.
It's like talk about two polaropposite genetic profiles and

(48:40):
just trying to figure out okay,what can I digest?
My body's just totally confused.

SPEAKER_01 (48:44):
Well, you just get to drink all the beer you want
and eat all the pasta you want.
Isn't that what that means?
You get the best of both.

SPEAKER_00 (48:49):
Hey man, I do great with carbs, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_01 (48:53):
Anyhow.
Uh but no, I mean, listen, it'sfun to imagine where we can go
with all this too.
But but yeah, I think you know,the deeper that we can
personalize this, uh, the morethat we can make it just easier
on folks to stay with for thelong term, the better off
they're all going to be forsure.

SPEAKER_00 (49:07):
Yeah, I agree.
But Brent, I do want to wrapthis show up.
So I'm gonna ask you the finaltwo questions I ask everybody.
The first one is if you were tosummarize this episode in one or
two sentences, what would beyour take-home message?

SPEAKER_01 (49:17):
Compounding matters, right?
Get make the little decisionsevery day for your health
trajectory that makes sense andand and get a sense of health
agency uh from wherever you can.
We certainly hope Sage providessome of that for individuals.
So the more that you can feel asense that you're in control of
your health trajectory, that youunderstand your biomarkers, that
you understand what's happeninginside your body, uh, we

(49:39):
certainly think you're on thebest chance of having a long,
healthy life.

SPEAKER_00 (49:43):
Love that.
And the second question how canpeople find you get a hold of
you and learn more about Sage?

SPEAKER_01 (49:48):
Yeah, I mean, the easiest we're Sage Healthspan
everywhere.
It's online atSageHealthspan.com, uh, all of
our social media atSageHealthspan.
Download the app, try it out.
Uh, we'd love your feedback.
We're in the early days of wherewe are as a business.
So we'd love your feedback.
If there's certain things yousee that you love, let us know.
If there's certain things yousee you don't love, let us know.
Um, you know, we're trying tomake it right for folks.
Uh, it's free to get started.

(50:08):
You can upload 100 labs fornothing, and we'll give you a
free analysis of everything,everything that you have.
Uh, and then if you want to gofurther on the journey with us,
uh, you know, we'd be thrilledto go down it with you.

SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
Brent, thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Healthy
Fitness Redefend.
Don't forget, subscribe.
It's the only way the showgrows.
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Until next time.
Thank you guys for listening tothis week's episode of Help to

(50:40):
Fitness Redefind.
Please don't forget to subscribeand share the show with a
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