March 10, 2025 • 53 mins
This episode highlights Brandon’s journey from aspiring NHL player to fitness entrepreneur after a career-ending injury. Listeners gain insights into transforming challenges into opportunities while navigating the fitness landscape.
• Early dreams of joining the NHL
• Transitioning from sports to personal training
• Exploring different fitness approaches and methodologies
• Establishing the Metabolic franchise model
• Core values: strength, consistency, and accountability
• The importance of educating the consumer
• Resistance to fleeting fitness trends
• Enhancing community relationships through fitness
• Movement as a foundational element for health
Don't forget to share, subscribe, and review our podcast! Your support helps us grow and bring actionable insights to your fitness journey.
Learn More at: www.Redefine-Fitness.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello and welcome to Help the Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we have another great
episode for all of you.
So, without further ado,welcome to the show, brandon.
Brandon, it's a pleasure tohave you on today.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Really excited.
We did a lot of pre-talking forthe show about a lot of fun
stuff, so wide array of stuff tokind of dive into.
We got a lot in common, so thatgets me excited.
But without further ado, tellus a little bit about how you
kind of ended up in the healthand fitness world.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, and I'll open with saying I apologize to your
guests.
I'm a little sick today, so thevoices I feel like I sound like
a 13-year-old kid going throughpuberty right right now, so you
might catch a few cracks here.
But no, um, I fell into fitness, naturally.
Um, I grew up in canada andI'll make this story short
(00:56):
because I'm, uh, kind of getbored of telling your own story.
But I chased that commoncanadian childhood dream to to
play hockey in the NationalHockey League.
I got pretty close.
Fitness was a big part ofgetting me there.
The way I like to look at it, Iwas.
You know, obviously I was agood hockey player, but once you
(01:18):
get to the top levels everybodyis good, and at that top level
I would say I was kind of anaverage skill set player.
So fitness became thatequalizer that allowed me to
remain relevant and I alwaystreated those off seasons with
the utmost importance and knewthat the more I could control
(01:39):
off the ice, the better chance Ihad once the puck dropped.
So I started players that Iplayed with and people that
lived in the town I grew up in,that might've played on other
teams or in other leagues,started noticing the type of
conditioning that I was in,which was just different.
(01:59):
And they started asking do youmind if we follow your program,
brandon?
And I said, yeah shit, I guessI've got to get certified so I
can charge for this.
And that's kind of how I fellinto fitness.
So my typical summers would bebartending at night to make some
(02:20):
quick money and then I wouldtrain people in the day and
myself and I would get ready forthe next season and
unfortunately, at the height ofmy career, while I was in
training camp with the New YorkIslanders, I got a career-ending
concussion and pretty much onthat night my entire journey
(02:45):
stopped and I had to think youknow what is a kid living in the
States with no real educationdo post career?
So you know fitness.
It made sense to give it a go.
I can't say it was an easything to transition to, but it
(03:07):
made sense right.
I had a lot of good friendshipsin the city that I live in
today because of the career.
So I live in Charlotte, northCarolina.
So I leveraged relationships.
I leveraged I guess what youwould call status at that point
in the market and startedtraining people locally,
(03:29):
experimented with a fewdifferent concepts.
I was a very early adopter ofthe CrossFit model.
What I mean is long before ithit pop culture.
So we're talking like mid-2000s, which is crazy when you think
about it, um, but I also got towitness when it hit pop culture
(03:50):
and kind of questioned not, isthis a bad program?
Uh, but should this be pushedat scale?
Should this be something thatyou, uh, push on the entire
population, or is this more of asports specific thing for a
period of time?
(04:10):
And that led me and my cofounder down a path of creating
really something for us.
You know it was a strength biasprogram that the way I would
describe is for people pasttheir sport.
You know what I mean.
(04:31):
There was nothing more to trainfor.
I wasn't looking to winanything, but I wanted to be
strong as I aged, I wanted to beathletic, still within reason,
wanted to be athletic stillwithin reason.
So what we started experimentingwith close to 15 years ago is a
program that now is calledMetabolic and we are a franchise
(04:55):
system.
So we franchise the model.
Me and my partner control ourgrowth and all of our program
design and the on-ramping of allof our trainers and as of today
you know, not to date therecording.
We have just over 40 units openand I think we've got another
(05:15):
three opening in the next 30days and about six or seven
planned for Q2.
So for our growth cycle we'llhit that, you know, exciting 50,
50 units open sometime mid year2025.
And yeah, I'm super proud of myteam.
You know I'm lucky.
I get to be the the voice for apowerhouse team that help our
(05:42):
franchisees thrive.
So, yeah, I always like toacknowledge that.
You know I'm the lucky guy thatgets to sit on the camera from
time to time, but you know I'msupported by our house group of
people that I'm all super proudof.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And what makes it different?
What do you think Metabolic is?
Why does it stand out?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What do you think metabolic is?
Why does it stand out?
So standing out is aninteresting word, right, because
that is an ongoing thing we'restill trying to figure out.
So I'll come back to how we dostand out.
But you also have to peel backlooking at what a general
consumer sees.
So we do hang out in theboutique space and educating the
(06:30):
uneducated consumer is still adifficult thing.
And when I say an educatedconsumer, right, I'm not saying
a dumb person, I'm actuallysaying just an everyday person
that didn't go to school forexercise science.
And when they kind of look on awebsite or on a billboard or
any type of advertisement, youknow they'll see things like oh,
here's a kettlebell here, Ilike this color scheme or this
(06:52):
schedule looks nicer to you know, this schedule matches my
schedule and I like this pricepoint better than that price
point, right.
So that doesn't go away, thatnever goes away, and we still
have to work on that educatingthe consumer and educating the
market.
How we stand out in the boutiquefitness.
So you will find a hundredpound dumbbells and a hundred
(07:16):
pound kettlebells on ourtraining floor.
Um, we prioritize consistencyversus variety, so we only have
(07:37):
five movements a day, you know,not 18, not 30.
Um, and we're always going tolead with strength and the
second component of that isconditioning.
So it's a hard thing to explain, but we really don't associate
with what goes on in theboutique space.
That is very boot camp leaning,very motivational in nature.
(08:07):
Our trainers are here to trainyou, not entertain you, is kind
of a tagline we use, and ourfocus is strength, structure and
accountability.
That kind of has become ourcore values.
So strength is obviously thebase of the pyramid.
Our program design is verystrength leaning.
(08:29):
I think the structure is thefact that we do value doing good
things.
Often, you know, we do the samethings.
Often we repeat movementpatterns and then the
accountability piece is justlike I said earlier, is like our
(08:50):
trainers train you.
They're not there to high-fiveyou, they're there to make sure
you are moving better everysingle day.
So I think you know we'vemanaged to create a culture of
high performers and I think thatreally helps us.
(09:10):
Right, because I don't haveissues with the boutique
industry, you know what I mean.
Like the best program is theone that gets you out of bed.
So if that's Orange Theory, ifthat's Pure Bar, if that's Solid
Core, if that's Pure Bar, ifthat's Solid Core, if that's F45
, and it's getting you in thatgym four to five days a week,
(09:30):
perfect, that is fantastic foryou.
I think my argument would be isit's very busy.
It's a very similar offering,just with a different set of
pantones.
You know what I mean?
And that's everything from ahot yoga class to a high-paced
Pilates class to an F45.
It's very similar.
(09:52):
Who they are chasing?
And I find us targeting thehigh performer that likes
predictability and structure.
It just works better for whatwe're we are trying to do.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I love that you brought that up, because that
was kind of leading into my nextquestion anyway, which let's
talk consumer standpoint.
Right, I'm sitting therelooking for a place to go and,
okay, now I look up gyms near meand I'm going to get five big
box gyms.
I'm gonna get 15 differenttypes of boutique type gyms, and
(10:28):
I can see why, as a consumer,it's very overwhelming and it
kind of puts informationparalysis on that person.
So what I mean by that isyou're going to hop in because
you said it's not being dumb,it's just being not.
You don't know about exercisescience.
So you're looking up best gymto go to, like that's all you
know, which is perfectly okay.
(10:49):
I do that with shit all the timeI don't know anything about,
and then I get freeze and I'mlike I don't understand this.
So they just end up either anot joining anything or be
hopping into the option thatthey think is the safest for
them, even though it might notbe the best option for them.
Yeah, so how, as a company, andhow can you talk directly to
(11:09):
those consumers and help thosepeople get over that information
paralysis and lead them in theright direction?
How do you go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
yeah, there's, there's a wellness exhaustion
right now.
Uh, for poor people, I feellike, not for poor people, for
people I feel bad for them.
I mean, you know, and I willsay this, and not popular, I
don't think my industry istrending in a better direction.
(11:40):
I can make a strong argumentthat the influencer driven
online change has reallycheapened some very strong
concepts.
The type of trainer that youhave access to these days are
(12:04):
less informed than 10 years ago.
It's weird that the generalpublic is more informed than
ever, but the trainer you areseeing on Instagram is less
technical and less educated thanever, and the problem with that
is a lot of people put a lot ofweight into these people that
they enjoy following and halfthe time, they really just don't
(12:28):
know what they are talkingabout.
So, to go back to the question,how do you speak to the
uneducated consumer?
Well, I don't know, anthony,we've been trying to figure that
out for 10 years.
If you have any, if you haveany tips, it's it's an ongoing
battle, I think.
I think the asset we have isthe person we are chasing is a
(12:59):
little bit more informed.
Um, if that makes sense.
So a lot of the big playersthat we would all know in our
space that either have an insaneamount of units from a gross
side of things or maybe they arebacked by a certain level of
celebrity that gets eyes on them.
We don't lose people to thosetypes of competitors.
(13:23):
You know we often benefit fromthem being a gateway drug into
fitness and then eventually theyfind uh, metabolic, because you
know communities talk and eventhough you may be enjoying a
community over here, it's it'scommon for someone to say, hey,
have you ever tried out thatmetabolic gym down the street?
(13:45):
They really know their stuff,type thing.
But I don't think there's asimple answer and I think it's
tougher than ever, anthony,because there's so much noise um
, not just in fitness right,just the world's noisy right now
and it's uh, it's very tough to.
It's very tough to cut throughthat noise.
(14:11):
If you're able to hire theright people that have the right
presence and the rightfollowing in each unit and each
market, they become that expertin the market that can steer
them towards you.
But but traditional advertising, in my opinion, is about as
tricky as it's ever been andit's changing every day of what
you should do, how to do it, howto speak, how to target.
(14:35):
It's a constant battle.
It really is.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I mean, you nailed it on the head and I have so many
opinions surrounding all of thatbecause I'm in the same boat
you are, but I really want toget it from you directly.
I think the first question tostart is you mentioned that
trainers are less educated thanthey have been before, but the
consumer is the more educatedthan they ever have been before.
I agree with you.
How do you fix that?
(15:02):
Is there a fixable solution, oris that something you just kind
of let the market decide?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So we look at the business in a pretty simplistic
way.
Right, you have three maincomponents of the client's
journey, the lead's journey.
You have attraction, you haveconversion and you have
retention right, I think what weare talking about here.
(15:34):
The tricky point is attraction,like that's the most difficult
because, at least in myexperience, conversion and
retention is experience driven,meaning you are delivering on,
you are delivering what you sayyou deliver and that speaks to
(15:55):
that consumer and you keepdelivering it.
So that's the conversion isyou're delivering what you say
you're going to do.
And then retention is youcontinually deliver the
experience you promised early on, right.
If someone doesn't convert, inour eyes two things happen they
are not your type of consumer orwe didn't do experience well,
(16:22):
right.
So that thing, I think, is alot easier to control and fix
and tweak when it's not doneright.
But attraction to your point isgetting extremely difficult,
cutting through the noise.
How we try to do this it startsearly, right.
(16:45):
So it starts with franchisingwith the right person that can
speak to the right consumer andif it's more of an absentee
investor, we make a point earlyon to let them know.
You know you will not be theface and we need to find that
(17:05):
for you to be the face, becausethe trickle down effect of the
owner to hire the right GM tothe GM to hire the right
trainers, it can all fall apartright there, because those local
celebrities let's call themlocal influencers they need to
(17:26):
have the pulse on that marketBecause, in my opinion, if you
are completely relying on metaor Google ads, you know you're
in trouble.
Now to your point, anthony.
When someone Googles strengthand conditioning Long Island,
yeah, you want to pop up.
(17:46):
Of course you've got to play aportion of that game and in our
world that's at best 20%.
But the other 80% is more of agrassroots ground game of being
relevant in your market andhaving a pulse on your community
and type of consumers.
(18:07):
And the last thing I will sayis we use psychographics to kind
of look at the type of sites wewant to go into.
And there's two ways that I findthis can work.
And I like to use where I grewup as an example.
Right, so you can pick a greatcity that has the type of client
(18:34):
that will gravitate towardsyour product.
So we do very, very well with25 to 45 year old like young
professionals right.
So we want to, most of the time, put ourselves in markets that
support that type of clientele.
The other option, though thatdoes work well too, is in a
(18:56):
smaller market.
You can bet on an individualover a market, meaning you know.
Anthony, if I went into LongIsland and I know your reach and
you think Metabolic would dothere, I could bet on you based
on who you are, because youmight be Mr Long Island.
(19:17):
That knows all the right peopleto make this happen.
Same as me, I grew up in asmall town in canada 130 000
people.
There's little to noopportunity for a young
professional there unless youhave a family business.
But if I went home and wantedto open a metabolic, I know the
300 and 350 people to make thisthing thrive.
(19:39):
What you don't want to do isput an absentee investor into a
sleepy market with no reach.
That's the kiss of death.
So you just got to kind ofweigh those two things.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, and it's funny you mentioned the attractiveness
side being the difficult side,because I've had this
conversation with hundreds ofgym owners and you don't always
get the same response.
I've seen it the flip side,where they have lack of
retention, and retention hasalways been mind-boggling to me
(20:14):
about how you have high turnoverin your company, which kind of
proves your point.
Why are they leaving?
Where are they going?
Do they feel like you're notdelivering on the value that you
promised the person?
Because that's what's going tomake somebody get up and leave,
like as an example for us.
We have clients that lookoutside.
This has happened a lot.
(20:34):
I'm not just saying that theywill literally go try it in
another gym, try it in thetrainer, and three days later
they'll come knocking back.
Hey, sorry, can I restart?
Yeah, it's all because you'reshowing how you over-deliver and
it's just people that are newto market that don't understand
about the quality of servicethey're getting, how much value
(20:55):
they're actually getting forwhat they're spending.
Those are the ones that willbranch out after a little bit,
but they seem to always comeback and that has a lot to do
with your brand as individual,something we've got pretty
locked down.
I'm talking about theattractiveness side of it, that
marketing blows my mind.
I, I'm a gym person, I'm aface-to-face person.
(21:16):
Uh, marketing, it's just awhole nother language to me.
Like our marketing company thathelps us out, the ads they put
out that convert, I would neverthink of putting out in a
million years.
To me, it's here's education,here's a whole bunch of science.
This is why you need this.
This is why you should come tous, because we know this.
(21:38):
This is why and that bombs thatdoesn't do well at all.
They're like looking for 15people on Long Island to get in
shape and then we get 100 leadsand it's like fuck.
So it's just crazy how you seethe difference.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And I also think that type of strategy is going to
really hurt your retentionstrategy.
So they can help forattractiveness and you know, if
you place some urgency on itmight help with conversion, but
you know, will they stick long.
You know, I think you talkedabout how we stand out, um, in
(22:18):
the market and I think you'dfind, like some of these stats
kind of interesting.
So it's it's kind of commonlyknown and these are some blanket
statements, guys.
So I realize there's some greatcompanies doing things outside
of these blanket statements, butin the boutique industry it's,
you know, it's commonly knownthat top selling memberships are
(22:41):
the four sessions a month oreight sessions a month, so like
one one day a week or two days aweek, and that represents 80 to
90% of some companies offering.
We also know that a lot ofthese companies lose 30% of
their clientele every three tosix months, which puts them in a
(23:02):
kind of like a guerrillamarketing type cycle.
And you know what's weird?
They're very good at it, right,they put the so many people in
per month they convert at thisbecause they know they're losing
at this and it becomes thisit's almost like this hamster
wheel that they're very good at.
So I'm not saying it can't bedone, but that's like a very
common industry standard.
(23:22):
But that's like a very commonindustry standard.
Um, the I think I just saw thisstat recently at a conference in
new york, but I think theaverage attrition rate in
boutique right now is ninepercent a month.
Um, as of this month, ours isfour um and that's about as high
(23:44):
as it's been, and I think someof that is because we've opened
so many new units recently.
So, like, founding members dofall off more than mature
members.
It's just the nature of presale.
The 4% is over 70% of ourmembers system-wide are on an
(24:08):
unlimited contract, so they'recoming three to four days a week
and our average tenureship isone to two years.
So I'd like, I just think thatI feel very comfortable
targeting this kind of this.
This could sound rude, but Imean more committed type A
(24:29):
consumer.
It just fits what we're doingand I think that's another
reason.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Which I think is mind blowing, and I really want the
general public to know anyway,what do you think the average
gym owner I'm talking aboutacross the us makes as a salary?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I mean, I would say, probably under 60 way under.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Keep going.
30, 20 000, really, yeah, crazy.
That's why a lot of peoplealways talk about you know, I
had joined a gym and it wasthere for a couple of years, and
especially boutique.
It disappears the companybecause-.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, listen to this.
The same conference I went toit was the Athletic News CEO
summit, and there was a lot ofdata analytics companies
speaking at it, so I thoughtthis was completely fascinating.
So, since COVID, the wellnesswallet so what people spend on
(25:37):
themselves per month, it's thebiggest it's ever been.
We are now.
We have surpassed visits, sowe're doing better in boutique
than we were in 2019.
Here's the craziest thingthere's less places to go.
So what that's telling us isthe strong are getting stronger.
(26:03):
There's a lot of consolidationhappening and this is not a
great thing, but we are notfinding new clients.
Clients are spending more onthemselves at multiple places,
which I find super interesting.
So, like it's very common, whenyou're like running around the
conference circuit, for peopleto say you know, only 25% of
(26:27):
Americans belong to a gym, howdo we go chase that other 75%?
Well, no one's making a dent inthat other 75%.
The 25% are just spending moreand more on themselves and
there's less places for them togo because, to your point, the
passion project gym of the pastthat made me $20,000, they're
(26:47):
going away.
It's too exhausting to run agym as a passion project and
collect no money, and anyonethat's been in the industry
knows this.
Like what we do is not easy.
It is a very enjoyable job, butit's a not it's not an easy job
.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean, your typical job is nine to five, right, even
if you own the business.
Typical it's wake up, get towork by nine, get it at five.
That's most industries, ourindustry.
You get in at four and you'rethere until 8, 8.30 PM, seven
days a week.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well, thank, thank God I've gravitated past those
hours at this point, but Iremember them very, very well.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I remember three months, 85 hours a week, no
sleep working.
I am so happy that's gone.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I will say this from my vantage point, which is kind
of cool.
There is a shift happening inthe industry, meaning we are now
starting to see some moreclassically trained C-suite
(28:00):
people at the boutique level.
So in in the past, like a lotof scale had happened with
someone like myself, of no realbackground, that grew and fell
into a role.
But now you're starting to seesome of the powerhouses arm
themselves with very, very goodbusiness people and I think
that's great for the industry.
(28:21):
I really do.
I you, I don't want it to.
You know, take away the soul ofthe business.
You know I don't want that, butfrom what I'm seeing and what
is coming, it's a much moreelevated experience.
And I think where we're seeingthis the most right now and I
(28:46):
think this is great for theindustry is big box gyms are
finally getting really fuckinggood.
I think over the next fiveyears.
The standalone products thatdon't really own a specific
(29:07):
niche are in trouble and one ofthe examples I use is we all
know recovery is super hot rightnow, right, say, like a sauna
(29:27):
or sauna cold tub, contrast kindof concept.
That's at scale.
I don't know where they'regoing to be in three years when
every lifetime YMCA and PlanetFitness who has the money to do
it puts them in their lockerrooms.
Do you remember when PlanetFitness put tanning beds in
their locker rooms and peoplejust got Planet Fitness
memberships so they could tan?
I know I'm dating myself here,but like that that was a thing.
(29:51):
Well, I can tell you this likeevery crunch, every planet,
every, every big box gym, foryour under 30 buck a month
membership, will have a saunaand a cold tub in it within the
next five years.
So, like, I think this shift isgoing to be super unique
because we've watched this inthe uk for about five years and
(30:16):
overseas, like their gyms overthere, their big box gyms are
absolutely beautiful and we'rejust starting to see the
lifetimes, the equinoxes, whatthey kind of owned before.
Now you're starting to see thisin the everyday gym and I think
that's fantastic for theindustry because it just
elevates fitness in general.
(30:38):
But someone in my shoes, webetter be pretty damn good at
what we do, because when you goto say, like a lifetime fitness,
their strength class is prettygood, their cycle class is not
too bad and for one membershipthat's starting to get a lot
(30:58):
more attractive and I think it'sa fantastic thing for the
industry in general moreattractive and I think it's a
fantastic thing for um theindustry in general.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I've also I've noticed a conglomerate wow
butchered that word.
But basically just to give anexample for long island, because
I know this market very welland I don't really know outside
of here, I can tell you lafitness is becoming that
powerhouse right.
So you're seeing them.
They exploded onto the marketby having more offerings than
the other big boxers and thenwhat happened?
La bought up Bally's right.
(31:30):
No more Bally's existed.
Covid hit 24-hour fitnessbankrupt, put them out of
business.
Then what happened?
Export Fitness sold out to LAFitness for something at the
tune of like $150 million.
That's a huge company that'snow gone just because LA decided
to eat them all up.
(31:52):
So there's becoming lessofferings in the big box world.
I mean around me which I thinkis the most populated for big
box, is Planet Crunch.
La Retro is hanging in there,but I see locations closing
where they see them opening, soI can see them being next of
kind of being devour, becausethey don't have those kind of
offerings.
They're in that mid-market.
(32:12):
But it's very interesting abouthow that's all working and it's
tied that into the boutiquemodel, what you said, the
boutique gyms which try totarget and go after the big box
so meaning they try to havebasic gym memberships, they try
to have offerings inside of themare going to get destroyed.
People are becoming more polar,meaning they want a gym that
(32:37):
has everything like soup to nuts.
I want to go in, pay a hundredbucks a month, get everything I
need, like soup to nuts.
I want to go in, pay a hundredbucks a month, get everything I
need.
Or I want to do this superspecific niche thing because I
know this is for me.
That's where you come in,that's where I come in and I
think that boutique side of thathas been exploding.
We see it in our company.
I know you see it in yours.
So it's very interesting to howthe market's trending and then
(33:00):
to tie that into.
You mentioned people chasing the75% of people that don't go to
gyms.
I agree it's more those thatthe 25% that put money into
health and fitness are spendingmoney Way more than they ever
had before because they wantthat super specific niche thing,
because they know this is whatworks for them.
(33:21):
And those people are generallythe higher performer peoples.
They're doctors, they'reC-suite people, they're
executives.
Those are the ones that want,like the super specific things.
I just think the trend, though,is, if you look at a chart of
the population, I don't thinkthe average consumer anymore is
(33:45):
set in a standard deviationcurve, meaning I don't think the
average person goes to the gymonce a month, twice a month kind
of deal, if he's no standard.
I think you're seeing a shiftthis way.
So you have, at one end, comingfour days a week, super
invested into fitness, huge dipoff in the middle, and then you
(34:06):
have doing absolutely nothing,or going for walks or kind of
like just pretending they'regetting involved.
So I don't know if you'renoticing that same like dynamic
split that I'm seeing.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, you know here's .
The weird thing is like peoplecan dress it up all they want,
but I don't think there's beenmuch of a shift in 10 years.
Dedicated people that go to thegym go to the gym, and I don't
want to say undedicated butpeople that don't go to the gym
don't go to the gym't go to thegym the thing that I think is
interesting is a lot of peopletalk about see this, think about
(34:44):
this other 75 percent, right.
The common thing to say is weneed more inclusive options for
this 75 to get them to the gym.
I think it's the completeopposite.
We need more exclusive.
And when I mean exclusive, I'mnot saying expensive and elitist
, I'm saying specific to movethe needle right.
(35:06):
Because when you say we needmore inclusive offerings to get
these people in the gym, there'sa 999 Planet Fitness on every
fucking block.
That's about as inclusive asyou can get.
I guess it's now 15.99, so thatexists.
But if you want to move theneedle and get new people doing
(35:26):
things, um, think of rogue ideaslike I don't know, like a
pilates concept for men.
You, you know, target men, movethe needle here.
Glp ones has the opportunity todo this.
I just think they're doing itthe wrong way.
If I was wrapped into GLP ones,by the way, I don't have an
(35:52):
issue with them for that part ofthe population that just cannot
figure it out.
If it's a kickstart, I'm okaywith with trying this the right
way.
I have an issue with the redcarpet version of the GLP-1 who
doesn't need it.
But in going back to like,creating an opportunity, I don't
(36:14):
get why some boutique conceptsare offering GLP-1 in a young
population platform.
In my opinion, you want anopportunity.
Launch a GLP-1 strength trainingstandalone product.
Don't wrap it into somethingelse.
Don't try to pretend that thisworks in a metabolic or an F45.
(36:38):
It doesn't.
There's a very specific wayyou're going to have to train
these individuals that aretaking off an extreme amount of
weight, losing connective tissue, lean muscle mass.
You can't throw them into agroup fitness class.
You need to put them in a verybasic starting strength type
program.
So, like again, it's popular tosay we need to be more
(37:04):
inclusive, when I think you movethe needle by being more
specific.
Create a new category.
The categories that we arestaring at today are the same
category as we were looking at10 years ago.
You know some of them are justflashier.
You know the person working outon the Peloton today was the
(37:27):
person doing Taibo in theirliving room.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
20 years ago, the ballet's step classes.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah.
So I don't think things arethat different and I think
moving the needle, looking atspecificity, could really help
creating new categories,creating just different
offerings that attract a smallfew, that hopefully create
bigger ripples.
People always talk about how dowe get the other 75% in the gym
(37:59):
?
My argument would be canmetabolic go find 1% more people
?
Can lifetime find 5% morepeople?
Can the YMCA find 5% morepeople?
If we could move the needle to65-35, the world's a different
place.
(38:19):
But we're talking about chasing75%.
It's it's it's the concept oftrying to save the rainforest
versus planting a few trees toget started, and I think we
could just look at it in a morelogical way.
So a lot of people are leadingwith their hearts, which is a
(38:40):
good thing, but I think like weneed to lead with intelligent,
logical decisions to move theneedle.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I couldn't agree more .
I was nodding my head.
Yes, for those not watchingvideo the entire time.
I really think I really believe, just to kind of start wrapping
this up that I really think Ireally believe, just to kind of
start wrapping this up that,like I mentioned on my January
1st podcast, I came out forpredictions of this year.
This year you're going to seeone of the biggest shifts into
(39:10):
that 75 and cut that number down.
Then I think we've seen in thelast 20 years and the reason
being as much as I we don't like, as we don't talk about
politics on this show, it's allpolitical.
You look at the election thathappened in November and you see
the way that people shiftedextremely onto one side, record
(39:35):
numbers that you haven't seen ina decade, record numbers that
you haven't seen in a decade.
They're calling for a change andyou see that change based upon
how RFK pulled when he wasindependent to now being pulled
into the HHC, which, at thistime this episode comes out, I'm
(39:55):
sure he'll be confirmed, but Ithink that it's going to be a
rude awakening.
I think people are realizingthe cost, not just with our
wallets but with our health andour lifespan, of the role that
obesity is taking a toll, therole that type 2 diabetes is
taking a toll and all thesepreventable diseases and I say
(40:17):
preventable that we're justadding to ourselves, that we
need to switch and get rid ofand you're going to see a change
.
And the quickest changes aregoing to be inside the food
industry, which I just hope andpray that even just he gets
confirmed, Even if it's notbanned, companies are like hey,
(40:38):
you know, we make money inEurope selling Heinz tomato
ketchup.
That's less ingredients.
Why not just sell the samething here in the US and not add
all this bullshit crap to itthat we needed?
It's the same markets.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So I grew up in Canada I mentioned that earlier
Right, so very similar to Europe.
There's a lot of products thatyou know we sell here in the
states that are not allowed inCanada.
From you know much I shouldn'tsay better access, but what you
get in your daily supermarket isa lot cleaner in Canada.
(41:17):
So I think that's a good thing.
But my only challenge to thatis and I've said this on a
podcast the other day I was, Iwas talking with Kelly and
Juliet Starrett about youth, ouryouth.
So I think another problem Ihave with this moving the needle
is everybody is trying to fixthe aging population and it's,
(41:42):
you know, it's a noble cause.
I get it and it's going to costus a lot of money as this takes
shape.
But I'm also a believer that alot of that it's too late.
I really just I believe it'stoo late.
You know, if someone hasn'ttaken care of themselves at 70
years old, it's going to betough to move that needle.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I'll give an argument to this, because I know exactly
where this is going and I wantyou to go look this up.
Yeah, I want everyone to gothere.
Well, hold on, I want to lookat alcohol, look at the non,
look at the youth, the highschoolersers, college age kids.
Obviously high schools aredoing it legal illegally but
they're turning to drinking lessand the rate that's going into
(42:29):
non-alcoholic products is a ratewe've never seen anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, the problem is is that gonna counteract
loneliness, them being behindtheir screens playing Fortnite
and not being able to associatewith people.
I get how alcohol is poisonousand not good for you, but our
youth isn't even going out.
They can't have conversationswith people in public.
They're stuck behind screensall day.
(42:53):
They're as lonely as ever, asdepressed as ever.
Alcohol, as painful as it was,was a social lubricant to get
people outdoors, to get peoplein communities, to get people.
Now it's a controversial topic,but my biggest rub here is not
alcohol, it's not, it's movement, it's not nutrition, because
here's the thing I always telleverybody I grew up in a pretty
(43:16):
healthy household, like myparents, led by example, right,
um, but at that time they onlyknew what they knew.
So, like we were the bagelgeneration, you know, we grew up
having oh, you got to have yourwhole wheat bagel because
that's, that's the good thing,holy bagel you got your, you
know your, your low-fat Pop-Tand my parents are doing what
(43:37):
they knew.
So I ate Cheerios, I atePop-Tarts, I ate bagels, I ate
shitty food.
Yet we all walked around lean,we all walked around active, we
all walked around different.
And you know what the problemis.
And I have kids in schoolsright now no recess, no PE, very
(43:58):
little movement.
Sit behind a desk, look at ascreen.
There's no play anymore.
So in my opinion, we have amovement problem well before a
nutrition problem in thiscountry.
It like it's amazing whatmovement can do to your
nutrition habits.
I think we can hide a lot ofnutrition problems with more
(44:23):
movement.
And what I am seeing in my kidsin school right now and what
I'm seeing with young adultsthey're indoors behind screens,
not interacting in tribes, notmoving.
So I think, yeah, we can talkabout the 75%, that how we
(44:44):
approach that.
But in my opinion, if we wouldyou know, to your support of RFK
if we can do something at theschool level to get kids moving
again recess every day, level,to get kids moving again recess
every day, pe every day, get thefucking kids in motion that
(45:06):
will fix a lot of shit in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, I did an entire hour and a half episode on the
child, the obesity epidemic, soI totally agree.
And it is way morebureaucratical bullshit.
That's intertwined with thatbecause companies like the
pelican group think they fuckingknow better than parents that
that kid like how we treat ourkids in schools, like
(45:31):
nutritionally, health, fitnessit's such bullshit.
And we talked about grades inschools, not to beat a dead
horse.
But a huge study came out like15 years ago at this point you
want to improve your kid's mathscore.
Let's say they're struggling inmath.
It's their worst fuckingsubject.
Put PE right before it.
(45:52):
Yep, 40% increases.
No extra studying, no extralike here's more homework, my
kids slow, it's not true.
Your kids just bored, they'resitting down all day and then pe
becomes.
When I I was going for pe soI'm very passionate about this I
was two years into my master'sdegree, which I said fuck this
(46:13):
and I left.
But watching, you know we takewritten tests now in PE, so we
do a lot less moving.
We play for about five minutesand then we go and we study
because parents want to see noteven parents, sorry.
Schools want to see improvementand the only way to show
improvement is through writtentests.
I'm like what?
They're like, yeah, we don'tmove anymore.
(46:34):
And then the kids if they don'twant to change, we're not
allowed to get them in troubleanymore.
So we get written up as theteachers.
If we get on the kids about, oh, they say they don't feel good.
We're like oh, okay, it's fine.
I remember when I was in schoolyou don't feel good, screw you,
you're going to fail PE.
And then if the teacher didfail you in PE, the parents
would get involved.
The principal would getinvolved and say, fuck you.
(46:55):
Like why did you film my kid?
It's like your kid didn't move,didn't change ones to go out.
Oh, that's a p is pathetic.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Like well, I think that was changed I think part of
that conversation I referencedum, which I think is important
because it's very easy, um, forus to get colorful here, me, me
included and one of thearguments that the Starretts
(47:23):
made was, you know, we got soexhausted fighting the system
that we had to take more of aneighborhood approach and one of
the things they were doing,like within their family, was
they called it a walking schoolbus.
So, like, their neighborhoodstarted as parents and kids
walking to school a mile andfrom school every day, forcing
(47:44):
those steps.
They have a rule within theirfamily that is like, movement is
not an option.
You get to choose your movement, but for this next hour, go
choose your movement.
You're moving for an hourbecause, like movement, you're
moving for an hour Because, like, trust me, like I think
(48:04):
unraveling what the Americanpublic school system looks like
today is a pretty big lift and,and to your point, failing or
not failing, I just just forcemovement, give kids the
opportunity to move.
You know, like you said, Ithink I think my, my co-founder,
I think his son I don't want tobe misquoted here, but I think
(48:25):
his son was one of the schoolsthat went through that Play 60
NFL football program andessentially I think it was that
there were 60 minutes ofmovement prior to class every
day for a year and then theyevaluated like the test scores,
and they did nothing differentfrom a teaching mechanism and
(48:46):
all the students did better thatyear just by introducing play
prior to education.
So I know I, you know I don'twant to get off topic here too,
too much.
But but my biggest thing is,and I'll try to summarize this
all together the industry issaying how do we get the other
(49:10):
75 percent of people moving?
I'm saying it may be a littlebit too late.
Let's apply a new category withthese GOP ones for people that
are so deconditioned that mightneed to start and have something
specific there.
Maybe we can create a newcategory.
But rather than chasing this75%, maybe we can make little
(49:33):
divots by adding a percent hereand there.
And then I agree, nutrition isfucked up right now in this
country.
I think we need to do our bestto control it in our schools and
in our homes and I think ourbest bet is not chasing today's
75%.
I think it's educating the nextgeneration.
(49:58):
Movement first, nutrition second.
And I know a lot of people, Iknow all you nutrition.
People will say you knownutrition is this.
You know I, I get it.
Trust me, this is what I do.
For me, I have seen movementlead to better nutrition goals
(50:19):
more than I've seen changingsomeone's nutrition to get them
moving.
That is my own personalexperience.
I will always say lead withmovement first, because
nutrition to me is like pushinga religion on someone.
It is tough to get them to cometo the other side Movement.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
I have found more success with I was going to ask
you to summarize this episode,but I really like that movement
first, nutrition second.
I agree it's a lot easier, butI do want to wrap this up,
Brandon.
So the second question is howcan people find you, get ahold
of you, learn more.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
So the second question is how can people find
you, get a hold of you, learnmore?
Yeah, I've kept my businessvoice pretty consistent to one
place.
I love to interact with peopleon LinkedIn, so I'll be pretty
easy to find.
It's just Brandon Cullen, myname, I think.
My handle is Playing Guilty, sothat's my podcast and kind of
(51:20):
like this kind of side passionproject, but either one, you're
going to find me pretty easily.
But, honestly, shoot me a DM.
I put a lot of content outthere too.
So if you like to engage andsee I hate the word disruptive,
but just giving a different lookat the industry.
You know, I promise to alwaysspeak nonpolitical.
(51:42):
I'm not going to say thepopular thing.
I'm going to say what I trulybelieve and hopefully, as we
talked about little percentagepoints and creating minor
ripples that hopefully dosomething.
Hopefully my voice just givesyou another way to look at the
industry we live in.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I couldn't agree more .
I love that.
Thank you, brandon Brandon,thank you for coming on.
Thank you, guys.
This is this week's episode ofHealth and Fitness Redefined.
Don't forget, share, subscribe.
It's the only way this showgrows.
If you want to learn more,reach out to me.
You can follow me on any socialmedia.
Thank you, guys.
Don't forget, fitness ismedicine.
Until next time, outro Music.
Hello and welcome to Help the Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we have another great
episode for all of you.
So, without further ado,welcome to the show, brandon.
Brandon, it's a pleasure tohave you on today.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Really excited.
We did a lot of pre-talking forthe show about a lot of fun
stuff, so wide array of stuff tokind of dive into.
We got a lot in common, so thatgets me excited.
But without further ado, tellus a little bit about how you
kind of ended up in the healthand fitness world.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, and I'll open with saying I apologize to your
guests.
I'm a little sick today, so thevoices I feel like I sound like
a 13-year-old kid going throughpuberty right right now, so you
might catch a few cracks here.
But no, um, I fell into fitness, naturally.
Um, I grew up in canada andI'll make this story short
(00:56):
because I'm, uh, kind of getbored of telling your own story.
But I chased that commoncanadian childhood dream to to
play hockey in the NationalHockey League.
I got pretty close.
Fitness was a big part ofgetting me there.
The way I like to look at it, Iwas.
You know, obviously I was agood hockey player, but once you
(01:18):
get to the top levels everybodyis good, and at that top level
I would say I was kind of anaverage skill set player.
So fitness became thatequalizer that allowed me to
remain relevant and I alwaystreated those off seasons with
the utmost importance and knewthat the more I could control
(01:39):
off the ice, the better chance Ihad once the puck dropped.
So I started players that Iplayed with and people that
lived in the town I grew up in,that might've played on other
teams or in other leagues,started noticing the type of
conditioning that I was in,which was just different.
(01:59):
And they started asking do youmind if we follow your program,
brandon?
And I said, yeah shit, I guessI've got to get certified so I
can charge for this.
And that's kind of how I fellinto fitness.
So my typical summers would bebartending at night to make some
(02:20):
quick money and then I wouldtrain people in the day and
myself and I would get ready forthe next season and
unfortunately, at the height ofmy career, while I was in
training camp with the New YorkIslanders, I got a career-ending
concussion and pretty much onthat night my entire journey
(02:45):
stopped and I had to think youknow what is a kid living in the
States with no real educationdo post career?
So you know fitness.
It made sense to give it a go.
I can't say it was an easything to transition to, but it
(03:07):
made sense right.
I had a lot of good friendshipsin the city that I live in
today because of the career.
So I live in Charlotte, northCarolina.
So I leveraged relationships.
I leveraged I guess what youwould call status at that point
in the market and startedtraining people locally,
(03:29):
experimented with a fewdifferent concepts.
I was a very early adopter ofthe CrossFit model.
What I mean is long before ithit pop culture.
So we're talking like mid-2000s, which is crazy when you think
about it, um, but I also got towitness when it hit pop culture
(03:50):
and kind of questioned not, isthis a bad program?
Uh, but should this be pushedat scale?
Should this be something thatyou, uh, push on the entire
population, or is this more of asports specific thing for a
period of time?
(04:10):
And that led me and my cofounder down a path of creating
really something for us.
You know it was a strength biasprogram that the way I would
describe is for people pasttheir sport.
You know what I mean.
(04:31):
There was nothing more to trainfor.
I wasn't looking to winanything, but I wanted to be
strong as I aged, I wanted to beathletic, still within reason,
wanted to be athletic stillwithin reason.
So what we started experimentingwith close to 15 years ago is a
program that now is calledMetabolic and we are a franchise
(04:55):
system.
So we franchise the model.
Me and my partner control ourgrowth and all of our program
design and the on-ramping of allof our trainers and as of today
you know, not to date therecording.
We have just over 40 units openand I think we've got another
(05:15):
three opening in the next 30days and about six or seven
planned for Q2.
So for our growth cycle we'llhit that, you know, exciting 50,
50 units open sometime mid year2025.
And yeah, I'm super proud of myteam.
You know I'm lucky.
I get to be the the voice for apowerhouse team that help our
(05:42):
franchisees thrive.
So, yeah, I always like toacknowledge that.
You know I'm the lucky guy thatgets to sit on the camera from
time to time, but you know I'msupported by our house group of
people that I'm all super proudof.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And what makes it different?
What do you think Metabolic is?
Why does it stand out?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What do you think metabolic is?
Why does it stand out?
So standing out is aninteresting word, right, because
that is an ongoing thing we'restill trying to figure out.
So I'll come back to how we dostand out.
But you also have to peel backlooking at what a general
consumer sees.
So we do hang out in theboutique space and educating the
(06:30):
uneducated consumer is still adifficult thing.
And when I say an educatedconsumer, right, I'm not saying
a dumb person, I'm actuallysaying just an everyday person
that didn't go to school forexercise science.
And when they kind of look on awebsite or on a billboard or
any type of advertisement, youknow they'll see things like oh,
here's a kettlebell here, Ilike this color scheme or this
(06:52):
schedule looks nicer to you know, this schedule matches my
schedule and I like this pricepoint better than that price
point, right.
So that doesn't go away, thatnever goes away, and we still
have to work on that educatingthe consumer and educating the
market.
How we stand out in the boutiquefitness.
So you will find a hundredpound dumbbells and a hundred
(07:16):
pound kettlebells on ourtraining floor.
Um, we prioritize consistencyversus variety, so we only have
(07:37):
five movements a day, you know,not 18, not 30.
Um, and we're always going tolead with strength and the
second component of that isconditioning.
So it's a hard thing to explain, but we really don't associate
with what goes on in theboutique space.
That is very boot camp leaning,very motivational in nature.
(08:07):
Our trainers are here to trainyou, not entertain you, is kind
of a tagline we use, and ourfocus is strength, structure and
accountability.
That kind of has become ourcore values.
So strength is obviously thebase of the pyramid.
Our program design is verystrength leaning.
(08:29):
I think the structure is thefact that we do value doing good
things.
Often, you know, we do the samethings.
Often we repeat movementpatterns and then the
accountability piece is justlike I said earlier, is like our
(08:50):
trainers train you.
They're not there to high-fiveyou, they're there to make sure
you are moving better everysingle day.
So I think you know we'vemanaged to create a culture of
high performers and I think thatreally helps us.
(09:10):
Right, because I don't haveissues with the boutique
industry, you know what I mean.
Like the best program is theone that gets you out of bed.
So if that's Orange Theory, ifthat's Pure Bar, if that's Solid
Core, if that's Pure Bar, ifthat's Solid Core, if that's F45
, and it's getting you in thatgym four to five days a week,
(09:30):
perfect, that is fantastic foryou.
I think my argument would be isit's very busy.
It's a very similar offering,just with a different set of
pantones.
You know what I mean?
And that's everything from ahot yoga class to a high-paced
Pilates class to an F45.
It's very similar.
(09:52):
Who they are chasing?
And I find us targeting thehigh performer that likes
predictability and structure.
It just works better for whatwe're we are trying to do.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
I love that you brought that up, because that
was kind of leading into my nextquestion anyway, which let's
talk consumer standpoint.
Right, I'm sitting therelooking for a place to go and,
okay, now I look up gyms near meand I'm going to get five big
box gyms.
I'm gonna get 15 differenttypes of boutique type gyms, and
(10:28):
I can see why, as a consumer,it's very overwhelming and it
kind of puts informationparalysis on that person.
So what I mean by that isyou're going to hop in because
you said it's not being dumb,it's just being not.
You don't know about exercisescience.
So you're looking up best gymto go to, like that's all you
know, which is perfectly okay.
(10:49):
I do that with shit all the timeI don't know anything about,
and then I get freeze and I'mlike I don't understand this.
So they just end up either anot joining anything or be
hopping into the option thatthey think is the safest for
them, even though it might notbe the best option for them.
Yeah, so how, as a company, andhow can you talk directly to
(11:09):
those consumers and help thosepeople get over that information
paralysis and lead them in theright direction?
How do you go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
yeah, there's, there's a wellness exhaustion
right now.
Uh, for poor people, I feellike, not for poor people, for
people I feel bad for them.
I mean, you know, and I willsay this, and not popular, I
don't think my industry istrending in a better direction.
(11:40):
I can make a strong argumentthat the influencer driven
online change has reallycheapened some very strong
concepts.
The type of trainer that youhave access to these days are
(12:04):
less informed than 10 years ago.
It's weird that the generalpublic is more informed than
ever, but the trainer you areseeing on Instagram is less
technical and less educated thanever, and the problem with that
is a lot of people put a lot ofweight into these people that
they enjoy following and halfthe time, they really just don't
(12:28):
know what they are talkingabout.
So, to go back to the question,how do you speak to the
uneducated consumer?
Well, I don't know, anthony,we've been trying to figure that
out for 10 years.
If you have any, if you haveany tips, it's it's an ongoing
battle, I think.
I think the asset we have isthe person we are chasing is a
(12:59):
little bit more informed.
Um, if that makes sense.
So a lot of the big playersthat we would all know in our
space that either have an insaneamount of units from a gross
side of things or maybe they arebacked by a certain level of
celebrity that gets eyes on them.
We don't lose people to thosetypes of competitors.
(13:23):
You know we often benefit fromthem being a gateway drug into
fitness and then eventually theyfind uh, metabolic, because you
know communities talk and eventhough you may be enjoying a
community over here, it's it'scommon for someone to say, hey,
have you ever tried out thatmetabolic gym down the street?
(13:45):
They really know their stuff,type thing.
But I don't think there's asimple answer and I think it's
tougher than ever, anthony,because there's so much noise um
, not just in fitness right,just the world's noisy right now
and it's uh, it's very tough to.
It's very tough to cut throughthat noise.
(14:11):
If you're able to hire theright people that have the right
presence and the rightfollowing in each unit and each
market, they become that expertin the market that can steer
them towards you.
But but traditional advertising, in my opinion, is about as
tricky as it's ever been andit's changing every day of what
you should do, how to do it, howto speak, how to target.
(14:35):
It's a constant battle.
It really is.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I mean, you nailed it on the head and I have so many
opinions surrounding all of thatbecause I'm in the same boat
you are, but I really want toget it from you directly.
I think the first question tostart is you mentioned that
trainers are less educated thanthey have been before, but the
consumer is the more educatedthan they ever have been before.
I agree with you.
How do you fix that?
(15:02):
Is there a fixable solution, oris that something you just kind
of let the market decide?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So we look at the business in a pretty simplistic
way.
Right, you have three maincomponents of the client's
journey, the lead's journey.
You have attraction, you haveconversion and you have
retention right, I think what weare talking about here.
(15:34):
The tricky point is attraction,like that's the most difficult
because, at least in myexperience, conversion and
retention is experience driven,meaning you are delivering on,
you are delivering what you sayyou deliver and that speaks to
(15:55):
that consumer and you keepdelivering it.
So that's the conversion isyou're delivering what you say
you're going to do.
And then retention is youcontinually deliver the
experience you promised early on, right.
If someone doesn't convert, inour eyes two things happen they
are not your type of consumer orwe didn't do experience well,
(16:22):
right.
So that thing, I think, is alot easier to control and fix
and tweak when it's not doneright.
But attraction to your point isgetting extremely difficult,
cutting through the noise.
How we try to do this it startsearly, right.
(16:45):
So it starts with franchisingwith the right person that can
speak to the right consumer andif it's more of an absentee
investor, we make a point earlyon to let them know.
You know you will not be theface and we need to find that
(17:05):
for you to be the face, becausethe trickle down effect of the
owner to hire the right GM tothe GM to hire the right
trainers, it can all fall apartright there, because those local
celebrities let's call themlocal influencers they need to
(17:26):
have the pulse on that marketBecause, in my opinion, if you
are completely relying on metaor Google ads, you know you're
in trouble.
Now to your point, anthony.
When someone Googles strengthand conditioning Long Island,
yeah, you want to pop up.
(17:46):
Of course you've got to play aportion of that game and in our
world that's at best 20%.
But the other 80% is more of agrassroots ground game of being
relevant in your market andhaving a pulse on your community
and type of consumers.
(18:07):
And the last thing I will sayis we use psychographics to kind
of look at the type of sites wewant to go into.
And there's two ways that I findthis can work.
And I like to use where I grewup as an example.
Right, so you can pick a greatcity that has the type of client
(18:34):
that will gravitate towardsyour product.
So we do very, very well with25 to 45 year old like young
professionals right.
So we want to, most of the time, put ourselves in markets that
support that type of clientele.
The other option, though thatdoes work well too, is in a
(18:56):
smaller market.
You can bet on an individualover a market, meaning you know.
Anthony, if I went into LongIsland and I know your reach and
you think Metabolic would dothere, I could bet on you based
on who you are, because youmight be Mr Long Island.
(19:17):
That knows all the right peopleto make this happen.
Same as me, I grew up in asmall town in canada 130 000
people.
There's little to noopportunity for a young
professional there unless youhave a family business.
But if I went home and wantedto open a metabolic, I know the
300 and 350 people to make thisthing thrive.
(19:39):
What you don't want to do isput an absentee investor into a
sleepy market with no reach.
That's the kiss of death.
So you just got to kind ofweigh those two things.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, and it's funny you mentioned the attractiveness
side being the difficult side,because I've had this
conversation with hundreds ofgym owners and you don't always
get the same response.
I've seen it the flip side,where they have lack of
retention, and retention hasalways been mind-boggling to me
(20:14):
about how you have high turnoverin your company, which kind of
proves your point.
Why are they leaving?
Where are they going?
Do they feel like you're notdelivering on the value that you
promised the person?
Because that's what's going tomake somebody get up and leave,
like as an example for us.
We have clients that lookoutside.
This has happened a lot.
(20:34):
I'm not just saying that theywill literally go try it in
another gym, try it in thetrainer, and three days later
they'll come knocking back.
Hey, sorry, can I restart?
Yeah, it's all because you'reshowing how you over-deliver and
it's just people that are newto market that don't understand
about the quality of servicethey're getting, how much value
(20:55):
they're actually getting forwhat they're spending.
Those are the ones that willbranch out after a little bit,
but they seem to always comeback and that has a lot to do
with your brand as individual,something we've got pretty
locked down.
I'm talking about theattractiveness side of it, that
marketing blows my mind.
I, I'm a gym person, I'm aface-to-face person.
(21:16):
Uh, marketing, it's just awhole nother language to me.
Like our marketing company thathelps us out, the ads they put
out that convert, I would neverthink of putting out in a
million years.
To me, it's here's education,here's a whole bunch of science.
This is why you need this.
This is why you should come tous, because we know this.
(21:38):
This is why and that bombs thatdoesn't do well at all.
They're like looking for 15people on Long Island to get in
shape and then we get 100 leadsand it's like fuck.
So it's just crazy how you seethe difference.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
And I also think that type of strategy is going to
really hurt your retentionstrategy.
So they can help forattractiveness and you know, if
you place some urgency on itmight help with conversion, but
you know, will they stick long.
You know, I think you talkedabout how we stand out, um, in
(22:18):
the market and I think you'dfind, like some of these stats
kind of interesting.
So it's it's kind of commonlyknown and these are some blanket
statements, guys.
So I realize there's some greatcompanies doing things outside
of these blanket statements, butin the boutique industry it's,
you know, it's commonly knownthat top selling memberships are
(22:41):
the four sessions a month oreight sessions a month, so like
one one day a week or two days aweek, and that represents 80 to
90% of some companies offering.
We also know that a lot ofthese companies lose 30% of
their clientele every three tosix months, which puts them in a
(23:02):
kind of like a guerrillamarketing type cycle.
And you know what's weird?
They're very good at it, right,they put the so many people in
per month they convert at thisbecause they know they're losing
at this and it becomes thisit's almost like this hamster
wheel that they're very good at.
So I'm not saying it can't bedone, but that's like a very
common industry standard.
(23:22):
But that's like a very commonindustry standard.
Um, the I think I just saw thisstat recently at a conference in
new york, but I think theaverage attrition rate in
boutique right now is ninepercent a month.
Um, as of this month, ours isfour um and that's about as high
(23:44):
as it's been, and I think someof that is because we've opened
so many new units recently.
So, like, founding members dofall off more than mature
members.
It's just the nature of presale.
The 4% is over 70% of ourmembers system-wide are on an
(24:08):
unlimited contract, so they'recoming three to four days a week
and our average tenureship isone to two years.
So I'd like, I just think thatI feel very comfortable
targeting this kind of this.
This could sound rude, but Imean more committed type A
(24:29):
consumer.
It just fits what we're doingand I think that's another
reason.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Which I think is mind blowing, and I really want the
general public to know anyway,what do you think the average
gym owner I'm talking aboutacross the us makes as a salary?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
I mean, I would say, probably under 60 way under.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Keep going.
30, 20 000, really, yeah, crazy.
That's why a lot of peoplealways talk about you know, I
had joined a gym and it wasthere for a couple of years, and
especially boutique.
It disappears the companybecause-.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, listen to this.
The same conference I went toit was the Athletic News CEO
summit, and there was a lot ofdata analytics companies
speaking at it, so I thoughtthis was completely fascinating.
So, since COVID, the wellnesswallet so what people spend on
(25:37):
themselves per month, it's thebiggest it's ever been.
We are now.
We have surpassed visits, sowe're doing better in boutique
than we were in 2019.
Here's the craziest thingthere's less places to go.
So what that's telling us isthe strong are getting stronger.
(26:03):
There's a lot of consolidationhappening and this is not a
great thing, but we are notfinding new clients.
Clients are spending more onthemselves at multiple places,
which I find super interesting.
So, like it's very common, whenyou're like running around the
conference circuit, for peopleto say you know, only 25% of
(26:27):
Americans belong to a gym, howdo we go chase that other 75%?
Well, no one's making a dent inthat other 75%.
The 25% are just spending moreand more on themselves and
there's less places for them togo because, to your point, the
passion project gym of the pastthat made me $20,000, they're
(26:47):
going away.
It's too exhausting to run agym as a passion project and
collect no money, and anyonethat's been in the industry
knows this.
Like what we do is not easy.
It is a very enjoyable job, butit's a not it's not an easy job
.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean, your typical job is nine to five, right, even
if you own the business.
Typical it's wake up, get towork by nine, get it at five.
That's most industries, ourindustry.
You get in at four and you'rethere until 8, 8.30 PM, seven
days a week.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well, thank, thank God I've gravitated past those
hours at this point, but Iremember them very, very well.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
I remember three months, 85 hours a week, no
sleep working.
I am so happy that's gone.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I will say this from my vantage point, which is kind
of cool.
There is a shift happening inthe industry, meaning we are now
starting to see some moreclassically trained C-suite
(28:00):
people at the boutique level.
So in in the past, like a lotof scale had happened with
someone like myself, of no realbackground, that grew and fell
into a role.
But now you're starting to seesome of the powerhouses arm
themselves with very, very goodbusiness people and I think
that's great for the industry.
(28:21):
I really do.
I you, I don't want it to.
You know, take away the soul ofthe business.
You know I don't want that, butfrom what I'm seeing and what
is coming, it's a much moreelevated experience.
And I think where we're seeingthis the most right now and I
(28:46):
think this is great for theindustry is big box gyms are
finally getting really fuckinggood.
I think over the next fiveyears.
The standalone products thatdon't really own a specific
(29:07):
niche are in trouble and one ofthe examples I use is we all
know recovery is super hot rightnow, right, say, like a sauna
(29:27):
or sauna cold tub, contrast kindof concept.
That's at scale.
I don't know where they'regoing to be in three years when
every lifetime YMCA and PlanetFitness who has the money to do
it puts them in their lockerrooms.
Do you remember when PlanetFitness put tanning beds in
their locker rooms and peoplejust got Planet Fitness
memberships so they could tan?
I know I'm dating myself here,but like that that was a thing.
(29:51):
Well, I can tell you this likeevery crunch, every planet,
every, every big box gym, foryour under 30 buck a month
membership, will have a saunaand a cold tub in it within the
next five years.
So, like, I think this shift isgoing to be super unique
because we've watched this inthe uk for about five years and
(30:16):
overseas, like their gyms overthere, their big box gyms are
absolutely beautiful and we'rejust starting to see the
lifetimes, the equinoxes, whatthey kind of owned before.
Now you're starting to see thisin the everyday gym and I think
that's fantastic for theindustry because it just
elevates fitness in general.
(30:38):
But someone in my shoes, webetter be pretty damn good at
what we do, because when you goto say, like a lifetime fitness,
their strength class is prettygood, their cycle class is not
too bad and for one membershipthat's starting to get a lot
(30:58):
more attractive and I think it'sa fantastic thing for the
industry in general moreattractive and I think it's a
fantastic thing for um theindustry in general.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, I've also I've noticed a conglomerate wow
butchered that word.
But basically just to give anexample for long island, because
I know this market very welland I don't really know outside
of here, I can tell you lafitness is becoming that
powerhouse right.
So you're seeing them.
They exploded onto the marketby having more offerings than
the other big boxers and thenwhat happened?
La bought up Bally's right.
(31:30):
No more Bally's existed.
Covid hit 24-hour fitnessbankrupt, put them out of
business.
Then what happened?
Export Fitness sold out to LAFitness for something at the
tune of like $150 million.
That's a huge company that'snow gone just because LA decided
to eat them all up.
(31:52):
So there's becoming lessofferings in the big box world.
I mean around me which I thinkis the most populated for big
box, is Planet Crunch.
La Retro is hanging in there,but I see locations closing
where they see them opening, soI can see them being next of
kind of being devour, becausethey don't have those kind of
offerings.
They're in that mid-market.
(32:12):
But it's very interesting abouthow that's all working and it's
tied that into the boutiquemodel, what you said, the
boutique gyms which try totarget and go after the big box
so meaning they try to havebasic gym memberships, they try
to have offerings inside of themare going to get destroyed.
People are becoming more polar,meaning they want a gym that
(32:37):
has everything like soup to nuts.
I want to go in, pay a hundredbucks a month, get everything I
need, like soup to nuts.
I want to go in, pay a hundredbucks a month, get everything I
need.
Or I want to do this superspecific niche thing because I
know this is for me.
That's where you come in,that's where I come in and I
think that boutique side of thathas been exploding.
We see it in our company.
I know you see it in yours.
So it's very interesting to howthe market's trending and then
(33:00):
to tie that into.
You mentioned people chasing the75% of people that don't go to
gyms.
I agree it's more those thatthe 25% that put money into
health and fitness are spendingmoney Way more than they ever
had before because they wantthat super specific niche thing,
because they know this is whatworks for them.
(33:21):
And those people are generallythe higher performer peoples.
They're doctors, they'reC-suite people, they're
executives.
Those are the ones that want,like the super specific things.
I just think the trend, though,is, if you look at a chart of
the population, I don't thinkthe average consumer anymore is
(33:45):
set in a standard deviationcurve, meaning I don't think the
average person goes to the gymonce a month, twice a month kind
of deal, if he's no standard.
I think you're seeing a shiftthis way.
So you have, at one end, comingfour days a week, super
invested into fitness, huge dipoff in the middle, and then you
(34:06):
have doing absolutely nothing,or going for walks or kind of
like just pretending they'regetting involved.
So I don't know if you'renoticing that same like dynamic
split that I'm seeing.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, you know here's .
The weird thing is like peoplecan dress it up all they want,
but I don't think there's beenmuch of a shift in 10 years.
Dedicated people that go to thegym go to the gym, and I don't
want to say undedicated butpeople that don't go to the gym
don't go to the gym't go to thegym the thing that I think is
interesting is a lot of peopletalk about see this, think about
(34:44):
this other 75 percent, right.
The common thing to say is weneed more inclusive options for
this 75 to get them to the gym.
I think it's the completeopposite.
We need more exclusive.
And when I mean exclusive, I'mnot saying expensive and elitist
, I'm saying specific to movethe needle right.
(35:06):
Because when you say we needmore inclusive offerings to get
these people in the gym, there'sa 999 Planet Fitness on every
fucking block.
That's about as inclusive asyou can get.
I guess it's now 15.99, so thatexists.
But if you want to move theneedle and get new people doing
(35:26):
things, um, think of rogue ideaslike I don't know, like a
pilates concept for men.
You, you know, target men, movethe needle here.
Glp ones has the opportunity todo this.
I just think they're doing itthe wrong way.
If I was wrapped into GLP ones,by the way, I don't have an
(35:52):
issue with them for that part ofthe population that just cannot
figure it out.
If it's a kickstart, I'm okaywith with trying this the right
way.
I have an issue with the redcarpet version of the GLP-1 who
doesn't need it.
But in going back to like,creating an opportunity, I don't
(36:14):
get why some boutique conceptsare offering GLP-1 in a young
population platform.
In my opinion, you want anopportunity.
Launch a GLP-1 strength trainingstandalone product.
Don't wrap it into somethingelse.
Don't try to pretend that thisworks in a metabolic or an F45.
(36:38):
It doesn't.
There's a very specific wayyou're going to have to train
these individuals that aretaking off an extreme amount of
weight, losing connective tissue, lean muscle mass.
You can't throw them into agroup fitness class.
You need to put them in a verybasic starting strength type
program.
So, like again, it's popular tosay we need to be more
(37:04):
inclusive, when I think you movethe needle by being more
specific.
Create a new category.
The categories that we arestaring at today are the same
category as we were looking at10 years ago.
You know some of them are justflashier.
You know the person working outon the Peloton today was the
(37:27):
person doing Taibo in theirliving room.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
20 years ago, the ballet's step classes.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah.
So I don't think things arethat different and I think
moving the needle, looking atspecificity, could really help
creating new categories,creating just different
offerings that attract a smallfew, that hopefully create
bigger ripples.
People always talk about how dowe get the other 75% in the gym
(37:59):
?
My argument would be canmetabolic go find 1% more people
?
Can lifetime find 5% morepeople?
Can the YMCA find 5% morepeople?
If we could move the needle to65-35, the world's a different
place.
(38:19):
But we're talking about chasing75%.
It's it's it's the concept oftrying to save the rainforest
versus planting a few trees toget started, and I think we
could just look at it in a morelogical way.
So a lot of people are leadingwith their hearts, which is a
(38:40):
good thing, but I think like weneed to lead with intelligent,
logical decisions to move theneedle.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
I couldn't agree more .
I was nodding my head.
Yes, for those not watchingvideo the entire time.
I really think I really believe, just to kind of start wrapping
this up that I really think Ireally believe, just to kind of
start wrapping this up that,like I mentioned on my January
1st podcast, I came out forpredictions of this year.
This year you're going to seeone of the biggest shifts into
(39:10):
that 75 and cut that number down.
Then I think we've seen in thelast 20 years and the reason
being as much as I we don't like, as we don't talk about
politics on this show, it's allpolitical.
You look at the election thathappened in November and you see
the way that people shiftedextremely onto one side, record
(39:35):
numbers that you haven't seen ina decade, record numbers that
you haven't seen in a decade.
They're calling for a change andyou see that change based upon
how RFK pulled when he wasindependent to now being pulled
into the HHC, which, at thistime this episode comes out, I'm
(39:55):
sure he'll be confirmed, but Ithink that it's going to be a
rude awakening.
I think people are realizingthe cost, not just with our
wallets but with our health andour lifespan, of the role that
obesity is taking a toll, therole that type 2 diabetes is
taking a toll and all thesepreventable diseases and I say
(40:17):
preventable that we're justadding to ourselves, that we
need to switch and get rid ofand you're going to see a change
.
And the quickest changes aregoing to be inside the food
industry, which I just hope andpray that even just he gets
confirmed, Even if it's notbanned, companies are like hey,
(40:38):
you know, we make money inEurope selling Heinz tomato
ketchup.
That's less ingredients.
Why not just sell the samething here in the US and not add
all this bullshit crap to itthat we needed?
It's the same markets.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
So I grew up in Canada I mentioned that earlier
Right, so very similar to Europe.
There's a lot of products thatyou know we sell here in the
states that are not allowed inCanada.
From you know much I shouldn'tsay better access, but what you
get in your daily supermarket isa lot cleaner in Canada.
(41:17):
So I think that's a good thing.
But my only challenge to thatis and I've said this on a
podcast the other day I was, Iwas talking with Kelly and
Juliet Starrett about youth, ouryouth.
So I think another problem Ihave with this moving the needle
is everybody is trying to fixthe aging population and it's,
(41:42):
you know, it's a noble cause.
I get it and it's going to costus a lot of money as this takes
shape.
But I'm also a believer that alot of that it's too late.
I really just I believe it'stoo late.
You know, if someone hasn'ttaken care of themselves at 70
years old, it's going to betough to move that needle.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I'll give an argument to this, because I know exactly
where this is going and I wantyou to go look this up.
Yeah, I want everyone to gothere.
Well, hold on, I want to lookat alcohol, look at the non,
look at the youth, the highschoolersers, college age kids.
Obviously high schools aredoing it legal illegally but
they're turning to drinking lessand the rate that's going into
(42:29):
non-alcoholic products is a ratewe've never seen anymore.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, the problem is is that gonna counteract
loneliness, them being behindtheir screens playing Fortnite
and not being able to associatewith people.
I get how alcohol is poisonousand not good for you, but our
youth isn't even going out.
They can't have conversationswith people in public.
They're stuck behind screensall day.
(42:53):
They're as lonely as ever, asdepressed as ever.
Alcohol, as painful as it was,was a social lubricant to get
people outdoors, to get peoplein communities, to get people.
Now it's a controversial topic,but my biggest rub here is not
alcohol, it's not, it's movement, it's not nutrition, because
here's the thing I always telleverybody I grew up in a pretty
(43:16):
healthy household, like myparents, led by example, right,
um, but at that time they onlyknew what they knew.
So, like we were the bagelgeneration, you know, we grew up
having oh, you got to have yourwhole wheat bagel because
that's, that's the good thing,holy bagel you got your, you
know your, your low-fat Pop-Tand my parents are doing what
(43:37):
they knew.
So I ate Cheerios, I atePop-Tarts, I ate bagels, I ate
shitty food.
Yet we all walked around lean,we all walked around active, we
all walked around different.
And you know what the problemis.
And I have kids in schoolsright now no recess, no PE, very
(43:58):
little movement.
Sit behind a desk, look at ascreen.
There's no play anymore.
So in my opinion, we have amovement problem well before a
nutrition problem in thiscountry.
It like it's amazing whatmovement can do to your
nutrition habits.
I think we can hide a lot ofnutrition problems with more
(44:23):
movement.
And what I am seeing in my kidsin school right now and what
I'm seeing with young adultsthey're indoors behind screens,
not interacting in tribes, notmoving.
So I think, yeah, we can talkabout the 75%, that how we
(44:44):
approach that.
But in my opinion, if we wouldyou know, to your support of RFK
if we can do something at theschool level to get kids moving
again recess every day, level,to get kids moving again recess
every day, pe every day, get thefucking kids in motion that
(45:06):
will fix a lot of shit in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, I did an entire hour and a half episode on the
child, the obesity epidemic, soI totally agree.
And it is way morebureaucratical bullshit.
That's intertwined with thatbecause companies like the
pelican group think they fuckingknow better than parents that
that kid like how we treat ourkids in schools, like
(45:31):
nutritionally, health, fitnessit's such bullshit.
And we talked about grades inschools, not to beat a dead
horse.
But a huge study came out like15 years ago at this point you
want to improve your kid's mathscore.
Let's say they're struggling inmath.
It's their worst fuckingsubject.
Put PE right before it.
(45:52):
Yep, 40% increases.
No extra studying, no extralike here's more homework, my
kids slow, it's not true.
Your kids just bored, they'resitting down all day and then pe
becomes.
When I I was going for pe soI'm very passionate about this I
was two years into my master'sdegree, which I said fuck this
(46:13):
and I left.
But watching, you know we takewritten tests now in PE, so we
do a lot less moving.
We play for about five minutesand then we go and we study
because parents want to see noteven parents, sorry.
Schools want to see improvementand the only way to show
improvement is through writtentests.
I'm like what?
They're like, yeah, we don'tmove anymore.
(46:34):
And then the kids if they don'twant to change, we're not
allowed to get them in troubleanymore.
So we get written up as theteachers.
If we get on the kids about, oh, they say they don't feel good.
We're like oh, okay, it's fine.
I remember when I was in schoolyou don't feel good, screw you,
you're going to fail PE.
And then if the teacher didfail you in PE, the parents
would get involved.
The principal would getinvolved and say, fuck you.
(46:55):
Like why did you film my kid?
It's like your kid didn't move,didn't change ones to go out.
Oh, that's a p is pathetic.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Like well, I think that was changed I think part of
that conversation I referencedum, which I think is important
because it's very easy, um, forus to get colorful here, me, me
included and one of thearguments that the Starretts
(47:23):
made was, you know, we got soexhausted fighting the system
that we had to take more of aneighborhood approach and one of
the things they were doing,like within their family, was
they called it a walking schoolbus.
So, like, their neighborhoodstarted as parents and kids
walking to school a mile andfrom school every day, forcing
(47:44):
those steps.
They have a rule within theirfamily that is like, movement is
not an option.
You get to choose your movement, but for this next hour, go
choose your movement.
You're moving for an hourbecause, like movement, you're
moving for an hour Because, like, trust me, like I think
(48:04):
unraveling what the Americanpublic school system looks like
today is a pretty big lift and,and to your point, failing or
not failing, I just just forcemovement, give kids the
opportunity to move.
You know, like you said, Ithink I think my, my co-founder,
I think his son I don't want tobe misquoted here, but I think
(48:25):
his son was one of the schoolsthat went through that Play 60
NFL football program andessentially I think it was that
there were 60 minutes ofmovement prior to class every
day for a year and then theyevaluated like the test scores,
and they did nothing differentfrom a teaching mechanism and
(48:46):
all the students did better thatyear just by introducing play
prior to education.
So I know I, you know I don'twant to get off topic here too,
too much.
But but my biggest thing is,and I'll try to summarize this
all together the industry issaying how do we get the other
(49:10):
75 percent of people moving?
I'm saying it may be a littlebit too late.
Let's apply a new category withthese GOP ones for people that
are so deconditioned that mightneed to start and have something
specific there.
Maybe we can create a newcategory.
But rather than chasing this75%, maybe we can make little
(49:33):
divots by adding a percent hereand there.
And then I agree, nutrition isfucked up right now in this
country.
I think we need to do our bestto control it in our schools and
in our homes and I think ourbest bet is not chasing today's
75%.
I think it's educating the nextgeneration.
(49:58):
Movement first, nutrition second.
And I know a lot of people, Iknow all you nutrition.
People will say you knownutrition is this.
You know I, I get it.
Trust me, this is what I do.
For me, I have seen movementlead to better nutrition goals
(50:19):
more than I've seen changingsomeone's nutrition to get them
moving.
That is my own personalexperience.
I will always say lead withmovement first, because
nutrition to me is like pushinga religion on someone.
It is tough to get them to cometo the other side Movement.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
I have found more success with I was going to ask
you to summarize this episode,but I really like that movement
first, nutrition second.
I agree it's a lot easier, butI do want to wrap this up,
Brandon.
So the second question is howcan people find you, get ahold
of you, learn more.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
So the second question is how can people find
you, get a hold of you, learnmore?
Yeah, I've kept my businessvoice pretty consistent to one
place.
I love to interact with peopleon LinkedIn, so I'll be pretty
easy to find.
It's just Brandon Cullen, myname, I think.
My handle is Playing Guilty, sothat's my podcast and kind of
(51:20):
like this kind of side passionproject, but either one, you're
going to find me pretty easily.
But, honestly, shoot me a DM.
I put a lot of content outthere too.
So if you like to engage andsee I hate the word disruptive,
but just giving a different lookat the industry.
You know, I promise to alwaysspeak nonpolitical.
(51:42):
I'm not going to say thepopular thing.
I'm going to say what I trulybelieve and hopefully, as we
talked about little percentagepoints and creating minor
ripples that hopefully dosomething.
Hopefully my voice just givesyou another way to look at the
industry we live in.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I couldn't agree more .
I love that.
Thank you, brandon Brandon,thank you for coming on.
Thank you, guys.
This is this week's episode ofHealth and Fitness Redefined.
Don't forget, share, subscribe.
It's the only way this showgrows.
If you want to learn more,reach out to me.
You can follow me on any socialmedia.
Thank you, guys.
Don't forget, fitness ismedicine.
Until next time, outro Music.
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