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June 2, 2025 44 mins

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What does it really take to thrive in life's most challenging moments? Rand Stoess joins Anthony Amen to explore this question through lessons drawn from decades of entrepreneurship, mentorship, and personal growth.

The conversation quickly dives into the critical difference between seeking external validation versus developing internal clarity. Rand emphasizes how our greatest strength comes from looking within first—understanding our values and boundaries—before seeking outside input. This self-awareness creates a foundation for resilience when life inevitably throws obstacles our way.

One of the most powerful insights revolves around our sphere of influence. Rand shares his personal evolution from believing his success came from controlling everything to realizing he only truly controls four things: attitude, effort, behavior, and chosen actions. Everything beyond that is influence rather than control. As Anthony adds, this influence isn't neutral—it pushes people in either positive or negative directions, making our choices profoundly consequential.

The discussion takes an especially practical turn when exploring how we become the average of the five people we spend most time with. Want to develop grit? Surround yourself with resilient people. Need more optimism? Spend time with positive thinkers. This principle extends beyond physical relationships to include the podcasts we listen to and content we consume—all shaping who we become.

Rand reveals seven research-backed qualities that lead to life satisfaction: zest, grit, mental toughness, optimism, curiosity, social intelligence, and humor. Each quality creates a foundation for bouncing back from setbacks—like a rubber ball that temporarily deforms upon impact but always regains its shape. This resilience isn't just innate; it can be developed through mindset shifts, forgiveness practices, and viewing life as a series of experiments where not every attempt succeeds on the first try.

Ready to transform how you respond to life's challenges? Listen now and discover practical strategies for becoming your most resilient, thriving self.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we have another great
episode for all of you.
Just a quick note didn't find abig at home with my lovely
guests here today, so I amactually at one of my studios.
So if you're watching on videoand you're like what the hell is
going on in, we're here in thestudio but you're slamming, it's

(00:27):
trainers working out theclients.
They're having a grand old time.
That's not the important part.
The important part is todaywe're here with rand.
Rand, it's a pleasure to haveyou on today.
Thank you so much fortolerating me to get this
episode up and going here at thestudio.
It's a pleasure to have you on,oh thanks for having me as your
guest, Anthony.
I absolutely love this.
We're going to have a greattopic to talk about today all

(00:49):
about thriving, being a betteryou.
So everyone knows that listensto the show and has been for I
just told him five and a halfyears Crazy long time, but thank
you for everyone that's beenthere since day one.
Brent, tell us a little bitabout yourself and kind of what
inspired you to write this book.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, I have had many different hats I've worn in
life.
You know all the way fromgetting serious in high school
and being the yearbook editor to, you know, jumping in after I
got my MBA at Stanford and beingan investment banker.
And I said, well, I don't likemeetings, I don't like a boss

(01:29):
telling me stuff.
So I started my own firm, oneof the smartest decisions I ever
made.
So I've been doing that for alot of a long time now.
Really good, but part of what Idecided to do when I set up my
company I designed around what Ireally wanted and that was to
be able to have time to spendwith my family.

(01:50):
It gave me time to be on boards.
So I've been on a lot ofdifferent boards.
I've been a scoutmaster, alittle league coach, and it just
keeps going and you know, itall has created a lot of energy,
a lot of excitement and I saw alot of people I met a lot of

(02:13):
people worked with.
You know, I don't knowimpossible to count the number
of people and I began seeingthat there were a lot of
challenges that people werefacing Good people, smart people
, well-intentioned people whoyou know were going through some
kind of transition, or maybeearlier in life, just trying to
launch.
You know, maybe they were goingthrough a divorce or, you know,

(02:37):
a breakup of some sort, Maybethey lost somebody important to
them, and then all the wayforward, you know, then they're
really wondering what to doabout retiring.
And I say, don't use that term,use rewiring so you can create
a whole new chapter of who youare and what you're about, how

(03:01):
to live life.
You know, I say Shakespeare andgood old Hamlet.
You know, to be or not to be,that's okay, but it's how to be
and how not to be.
That's really a lot morepowerful, a lot more important,
and that's what I'm talking tofolks about.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I love that because you see it a lot and it's a
topic we talk about a lot, wherepeople get caught up, right?
Mia is a great example ofgetting caught up in the
business sometimes, or whatever,and an obstacle hits you and it
just whacks you over the headand you feel like you get
totally defeated by it, right,and you're just like you just
don't know where to go.

(03:40):
And then most people not thatthere's anything wrong with this
, it's just what I've noticedlook for someone else to tell
them the answer.
Where you're going to atherapist, you're going to your
parent, you're going to yourspouse, they shoot for someone

(04:02):
else to tell me what to do,because I don't want to make
this decision on my own.
Yeah, boy, you really nailed it.
Two of us do it on our own.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, you really nailed something with that,
Anthony, and you know you mightget some good advice I hope
people do but the really bigpart of the strength comes from
knowing you, looking insideyourself and saying this is what

(04:28):
I'm about, this is what I standfor, this is what I won't stand
for.
And then maybe you come up withyour solution or a couple of
solutions, and then you can roadtest it.
You can ask some people whoreally know you, who really care
about you, who are not saying,well, you should do this.
You know the should word isanother problem.

(04:49):
You know I don't want to beusing should.
You know, if they get you, theysay I'm hearing what you.
Let me repeat what you just said.
Here's what I'm hearing aboutwhat your idea is.
Did I get that right?
So you're listening with awhole different level of
interaction and care.
And then they can say would youlike to know what I think about

(05:13):
that?
And you said, no, no, I'm fine,I'm just sort of wanting to
hear myself.
Or you say, yeah, I do, Ireally respect you, I care about
you, so I'd like to get yourfeedback and at that point you
can give the answer.
But if you start with that boy.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
You're so much more grounded I'm going to add to
that because I think this isimportant.
I use the example.
You wouldn't go ask a plumberhow to do the electricity in
your house.
Yeah, so they could give youadvice, but it's not the silver
device.
So if you're depending on whatyour issue is, should be

(05:54):
dependent on who you ask.
If you want to work on yourrelationship and you're having
an issue with your wife, don'thave someone who just got
divorced.
Yeah, go with someone who youthink has a really happy
marriage, who also knows the insand outs of your marriage.
If you're looking for details,yeah, no, it's good.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
It's good.
And you know, I recently heardsomebody say, when they're
especially when they're talkingto their teenage children, do
you want me to give you advice,or do you want me to listen, or
do you want me to give you a hug?
And I thought, wow, if you askthat at the front end and the

(06:43):
answer could be I just want tohug, then you could do that and
your job is done.
If they want advice, totallycool.
If they want you to just listen, then that's what you should do
.
Oh, I, that's what you it'd benice for you to do.
I shouldn't say should, yeahbut it's because.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
It's because, as a society and this is where I
think we can get deep right isthat's what we're programmed to
do is to go talk to people andthen get advice back.
And let me give an example,because I think that helps.
When you go to school, you givean answer to the teacher.
The teacher just says whetheryou're right or wrong.
Yeah, and you go give a problem.

(07:24):
The teacher gives you theanswer to that solution.
You come home.
What do your parents typicallydo?
This is the right way to do it,this is the wrong way to do it,
and you're always pushed andpulled in different directions,
obviously speaking, when you'reyoung.
I have a six-month-old at homelike he has no freaking idea
what he's doing.
So it's my job as a parent topoint them in the right
direction, to kind of help themout.

(07:45):
But as kids get older and theygraduate from moving from mom
and dad, this is an issue I'mgoing to get killed for saying
this, but I've learned to speakfrom my mind.
One of four siblings, me andone of my brothers remember yeah
, one of my brothers.
We make our own decisions, wedo our own things and they get
kicked back from my parents bythe siblings.

(08:06):
Two of my siblings can't make adecision for a whole little
while without talking to theirparents and they still think
that, like, their parents aresupposed to give them the right
decisions on what they're doingin life and they're almost 40.
So it's like at some point youhave to become independent and
say thank you, mom and dad, Iappreciate you, I love you with

(08:26):
all my heart, which I do and Irespect my parents 100 percent.
They were amazing.
But I need to make my owndecisions.
I can't constantly come back tomom and dad, because that's my
role to do it for my kids.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, you know, let's add.
Let's add another ingredient tothis, and that is each of us.
Each of us is different andthere is the same piece of
advice could be 100% solid forone person and only whatever 80%
, 50%, 20%, helpful or good forsomebody else.

(09:04):
And it's not necessarily easyand obvious to see that from the
outside.
You got to really dial in andthis is why I recommend starting
with you and then I recommendto people map it out, use
iJournal.
You know, especially when I'mgoing through some complicated
thing multiple parts I'm noteven sure how I feel about

(09:26):
things.
I got to, you know, put a pento paper and write it down and I
began to see ah, this connectsto this.
The reason why I was upsetabout this was because of that.
But you know what?
I played a big role in that aswell.
So own up to that part.
And then I could say, once I'vegot it mapped out, then I could

(09:48):
say here's the solutions,here's what I could do that
would help, and maybe I need tohave a conversation with
somebody else, or maybe I needto just sort of give it a little
little break, a little pause,that's, that's okay too yeah,
it's like great example of whatyou said is talking to yourself,
giving a little understandingof what I do, which is very
similar actually.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, there's a stimulus, something happens
right and I get distraught.
Yeah, like I am a mental wreckfor an hour or two.
That's not a long time, butit's not super short.
After an hour or two I takethat same thought.
It's okay.
What can I do to fix thesituation?

(10:30):
And this is why my wife and Ikind of disagree, which is kind
of funny, but I'm always like Ineed to fix this.
Now it's my fault.
Let me see what I can do,because I've learned in life I
can control what I can control.
I can control things and makethem controllable.
So I can control, I act, Icontrol, I respond to things, I
control my tonality, I cancontrol what my hands are doing,
like whatever I I things I cantake control of and fix.

(10:53):
Right, and if I could fix acertain thing about what I'm
doing to make the situationbetter, I should be doing the
fact that I have to, especiallywith my wife.
So it's take control of it andthen you process it to something
where you can step in and whereyou can help it or you can fix
your own emotions and then, asif I really need to deep dive I

(11:14):
actually don't do journaling,I'm not a fan of journaling
personally, but I think it'sgreat.
I like I have an eight footwhiteboard in my house, eight
foot by six foot, and I put onmusic with no uh audio like tone
, singing, so it's all thebackground noise, and I just
whiteboard it out and I'm justgoing like a madman.
I have things crossed off,double backed and I process

(11:37):
everything in my head going onand then usually about like an
hour later, I was was just likethis, is it?

Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's fantastic.
Yeah, you found a tool thatreally is great for you.
That's good.
You know a couple of thingsthat you mentioned here.
I mean like every sentence.
I want to add something else.
One thing you said is talking toyourself.
Right, and there's a bigdifference between talking to

(12:04):
yourself and listening toyourself.
So a lot of people have thesetape recordings going on.
It could be from the parents,it could be, you know, some
teacher, it could be a boss, itcould be their own sort of
self-sabotaging sense of things.
If they're listening tothemselves, oh, a lot of I've
just seen this so many times canreally not be a good thing.

(12:27):
If you talk to yourself, youcan talk to yourself with
encouragement.
You can say, hey, you know it'stough right now, but I'm going
to get through this, I know Ican, I believe in myself, I love
myself, okay, and so that's thetalking to yourself Very
different than listening.
The other thing that you talkedabout is control, and one of

(12:49):
the three main things that Ilike to talk to people about is
being emotionally healthy, andthere are three of them I talked
about.
One is stop self-sabotaging.
That's just, you know, listento yourself when you're kind of
getting down.
I can't do that, you know.
No, toss that away, just put itaway.

(13:12):
A second one, though, is toforgive.
You got it, you got.
I mean, I see people who are,you know, past middle age,
getting older, and they'reholding on to a big, heavy rock,
and it because they haven'tforgiven.
They haven't forgiven somebody,or maybe they haven't forgiven
themselves.
So you got to reach deep, yougot to really take that story

(13:34):
apart, find out what's going on.
I say, maybe the person isn'taround anymore, so you write a
letter anyway, don't mail it.
You say, hey, this is whathappened.
Here's how I felt about it, andI forgive you.
I think you owe me an apology,but I'm going to forgive you and
just unburden yourself withthat forgiving.

(13:56):
And then the third one is now.
In baseball, we call this thelong windup is letting go, and I
used to think because I've hadthis big career and you know a
lot, of, a lot of successdefined in various ways uh, that
I was in control.
The reason I was successful isbecause I was in control, but my

(14:19):
wife and my terrific adultchildren, uh, began showing me
that I did not control nearly asmuch as I thought I did.
So I took a look at that and Isaid you know, what I control
are four things, and only fourthings.
I control my attitude, Icontrol the amount of effort I'm

(14:39):
going to put into something.
I control my behavior and I cancontrol the actions I decide to
take.
Everything else after that issomebody else that I don't
control.
I might, if I'm doing a goodjob, influence them.
If I do a poor job, myinfluence diminishes.
So this is the control thing.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I disagree with that, I'm going to start to cut you
off.
Yeah, the influence diminishes.
I don't think your influencediminishes at all.
I actually think influence putsthem in a negative direction.
Oh interesting, it's not notthat your influence disappears,
but it now becomes more in anegative direction, like not

(15:20):
doing something is influencingsomeone to not do something.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I like it.
Thank you, no, no, no, I likethat.
I like that.
This is kind of why thesepodcasts this is my 84th guest
appearance on a podcast.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I keep learning.
It's so great, so, yeah, pushesyou in another direction.
That makes perfect sense to me,absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Because an employer standpoint like me and you can
relate from that right, I know alot of people who own
businesses me personally as wellhas done this.
If I let an employee get awaywith something, I'm influencing
them to not feel like they canalways get away with that and
that behavior is going to getworse in my head and it's going
to bother me more than it coulddo.
But they're going to keep doingit because they think it's okay
, because I never said anything,and that's just going to

(16:09):
influence the negative feedbackcycle.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Very good, very good.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Another thing you mentioned which was a little at
the beginning of that theself-sabotaging.
I have a question for you,because I've asked this question
to like seven guests.
Right now myself, I don't thinkanyone has an answer, so maybe
you do.
Well, let's find out.
Yeah, we'll see.
So this is the question.
I'm going to give a littlebackstory before I ask the

(16:36):
actual question.
When I don't self-sabotagemyself anymore, because what I
say to myself is you've beenthrough worse.
That's what I've always said.
So it's it doesn't matter whathappens, like COVID shut my gym
down.
The next day I started apodcast and started doing other
things, because I've beenthrough worse in my life and

(16:57):
I've gotten over it and been abetter person because of it.
So nothing has been able toimpact me for long periods of
time, because I know I've beenthrough really hard times that
I've gotten through.
So that's why I help over and Itry teaching these people, but
they don't understand it.
Because I feel like if you'venever been through hardship and

(17:19):
you've never had something likereally bad happen that you've
picked yourself up from, thenit's impossible to teach
somebody how to self-motivateand how to get over other things
, because they never did it forthe hardest thing or never had
anything traumatic happen inlife at all.
So how do you teach it if noone ever even had anything

(17:41):
traumatic happen before?

Speaker 2 (17:46):
well, let's, let's take a step back for a moment,
because self-sabotaging shows upin a variety of clothes.
One is I can't do X, another isI won't try because there's no

(18:07):
point.
And a third is I'm not going toapply for that job, that
position, the promotion, becausethey aren't going to take me.
You know college kids goingthrough high school and thinking
about the next step, and maybecollege have frequently have

(18:30):
that.
Why bother with that school?
Because you know they'relooking for somebody smarter or
different or whatever.
And so each of those, you knowthe, the response to each of
those a little bit different.
And so the advice can they helpthemselves if they've never

(18:53):
been through it and seen thelight at the other end of the
tunnel?
I believe the answer to that isyes, and I'll give you an
example.
So when I was in college, I havea degree in mathematics and I
was a tutor and I'd have officehours in mathematics, and I was

(19:19):
a tutor and I'd have officehours and, um, you know, people
would come in and they would,within a minute or two, they
would say I'm not good at math,that's my wife, I'm not good at
this, so I'm not good at math.
So I say, okay, I understand,let's go through a few problems
together.
We'd go through it and they'dbe watching and yeah, oh, they
see the answer, they go, youknow, oh, that's interesting.
And I said, come on, let youtry it and I'll give you some

(19:42):
hints and yeah, andencouragement along the way and
then they, they get there, youknow, I might have to kind of
say, oh, you know, look at that,you know.
And then, uh, and then I say,okay, I think you're ready to
try it, without me saying that,and they get it and they go.
Wow, I like math.
I mean, it took severalsessions, didn't happen for some

(20:02):
Some of these students thathappen within 45 minutes, but
others that took several.
But what was happening is I wasgiving them guidance and
encouragement.
I was just ignoring the.
I can't do tape recording and Iwas saying what I'm seeing is

(20:23):
this and that's a pattern, andthat pattern is repeating and
you've got to get rid of thatpattern and replace it with this
pattern.
And they go oh, I never thoughtof that, that's cool, okay,
yeah, yeah.
And so this idea and anothermessage that I've seen I've seen

(20:45):
this in a lot of people.
You know, I've had CEOs andowners of companies as clients.
They say, well, you know,there's no point in trying to do
this, go for this product orthis service, because we're,
we're really, you know, we'refull up now and I don't really
understand how to do it anyway,and I go OK, those are good

(21:08):
reasons, and I don't just say no, that's what you just said is
not worth listening to.
I hear it and I sometimesrepeat it back and I go.
You know, there is some logicto that.
And let's just put that asidefor a minute and say, if you
added this, if that was workable, would that be a good thing for

(21:31):
the company?
And they go yeah, I'd reallybeen wanting to try to do that
for some time, but I haven'tknown really how to do it, so I
just kind of dismissed it.
We can't.
And I said well, would you liketo have a conversation about
how it might be possible?
They go thank you, yes, that'swhat I want.
I said I'm here to help you andhelp your company move up so

(21:55):
it's more valuable, so that Ican meet the objective you
established, which is you wantto sell your company for more
value than it's worth now, andso this is an avenue that is
could be really valuable to you.
They go how much time do youhave?
I want it, I want it all.
So we map out a game plan andI'd check in with them every

(22:18):
step of the way.
Is this, do you think thismakes sense?
Is this possible?
Sometimes it would involve themvery directly and they'd have to
move something away and bringsomething closer, like this new
idea.
In some cases, they had tothink about maybe somebody else
in the company they thought wellof and reposition them.
In some cases, they had tothink about maybe somebody else
in the company they thought wellof and reposition them.
In some cases, they need to goout for a search.

(22:40):
I said, okay, these aredifferent avenues, different
kinds of things.
How are you feeling about this,jazzed?
I'm excited about this, I wantto do it, but I didn't know
really how to do it.
So I just kind of just said, no,I didn't have, you know,
anthony's big whiteboard.
I didn't know really how to doit, so I just kind of just said,
no, I didn't have, you know,anthony's big whiteboard.

(23:02):
I didn't know how to dancearound making sense out of this.
So these are two examples and Iso yeah, they had, they had
struggled, they had had someproblems, but I don't think in
either of those cases the mathstudent case or the CEO case
they had suffered through it andcome up with an answer on their
own in some other way beforeyou know, maybe in history.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
But my point being like you helped them through it
right Exactly Big voice ofencouragement.
How would someone do it bythemselves?

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Oh wow, I think I've done it for myself several times
, but I think I'm not youraverage yogi there.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Is it possible to teach someone to do them for
themselves without going throughsome, just for your sake and
for those that don't listen toevery episode, like yeah, yeah,
my point was I got to the pointI was going to kill myself and
that's literal, not figurativelyit was suicide or change who I

(24:08):
am as a human being.
I obviously chose the left, butnow everything that happens in
my life has been easy for me toget over with because in my head
, nothing was harder than thatdecision.
So, like it's so easy for me tobe like okay, I can get over
this.
Okay, you get over this.
I've already had my low pointin my life.
Like, who gives a shit abouteverything else?

(24:30):
I'm going to figure out how tomake it work the best I can.
I don't know how to teach thatto people for them to do it on
their own without getting help.
Like, how do I get people tojust understand that on their
own and be like oh, I can getover this, you know?
Like how do you do that?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, I think it's really getting a person to
embrace the idea of a mind shift.
You know how they're holding onto something.
So let's pick an example beinggrateful, right?
So a lot of people.
I just was visiting somebody, areally terrific guy, and he

(25:08):
said he about three months agohe was broken.
And I said, well, what happened?
He said I realized I lost allmy gratitude.
I just was not looking atanything from that lens and I
said, okay, and so you observedthat you weren't doing that.
What did you do?
He says I began being gratefulagain.

(25:29):
I knew how important it was.
So people say, well, how canyou be grateful when you get
really bad news?
You just got the call from thedoctor's office and the news was
bad.
I said okay, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry you got that news andI feel for that and could it

(25:51):
have been worse?
Start thinking about the peoplewho are around you, who are
supporting you.
Think about the quality of yourdoctor, or that you have
insurance, or think about a lotof things that you can be
grateful for.
And so, if you hear yourselfcomplaining, immediately think

(26:14):
of something to be grateful for.
And so gratitude is availableto us all the time, and it's
kind of a habit.
I think it's a habit, it's achoice we can make.
It's a choice like are youoptimistic?
You know, I am relentlesslypositive.
I've been that way for as longas I can remember.

(26:35):
So, you know, people could saywell, it's easy for you to say,
but I make a choice about it inthe face of a lot of contrary
stuff, and I've seen people alot who are angry, who are
cynical, who are just kind offed up, who are cynical, who are

(26:56):
just kind of fed up, and I go.
You know you're making somechoices about what you're
listening to.
You're making some choicesabout getting yourself in this
place to feel those thingsrather than being positive.
You make a choice about that.
Which choice would you pick?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Like, well, it's obvious, I just uh, I haven't
got there yet, it's okay youmentioned a pre-show that
there's a couple of ways tochange your mindset right, and
one of the ways was who you'rewith.
Yeah, and I'm a really bigbeliever in you become the
people you surround yourselfwith, wow, yes, all aspects of

(27:39):
your life.
And not only do you become them,you become the average of them,
yeah, so just as a businessexample, right, just because I
think that's easier for peopleto process before the emotional
side of it.
Just because I think that'seasier for people to process
before the emotional side of it.
As a business owner, I surroundmyself with people who are more
successful than me Because itmakes me feel like I can do more

(28:03):
and if they can do it, I can doit.
And I'm getting advice frompeople going back to what we
talked about in our previousshow from people of where I want
to be.
On the flip side of that, Idon't take advice from my
parents uh, business advice, notthat they're like they own a
business but they're not where Iwant to be.
They're in a business orthey're not an entrepreneur.

(28:25):
For those that don't havedifference, I'm not going to
stress into that.
But I surround myself and itdoesn't have to be physically,
it can be listening audioly melistening to podcasts, me
listening to youtube videos.
I'm still spending time withthose people because I am
observing and understanding whatthey're saying, even though

(28:46):
they're not physically here andthey physically don't know who I
am.
It's a different way of lookingat it.
If I want to be more optimistic, I have to surround myself with
optimistic people and that'llbecome the average of them.
If I want to be more athleticand I want to lose weight, you
have to surround yourself withpeople who are athletic and
don't have weight to lose.

(29:07):
If you spend time with me andchange nothing else in your life
, just spend time, I promiseyou'll lose weight, because I am
a fanatic.
So, my habits are just going torub off on you and you're going
to lose weight.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Oh, anthony, this is brilliant.
You're bringing this up.
What I've heard and I tellpeople you are the average of
the five people you spend themost time with, which is exactly
what you're talking about, andwhat does that mean?
That covers a lot of landscape.
You know, are you the funniestperson?

(29:42):
Well, you might be, but ifnobody else around you has any
humor or doesn't even think yourjokes are funny, well, maybe
you need to add some new folkswho have a little more humor.
Are they good listeners?
This is so important.
Oh my gosh, you gotta havepeople who are good listeners

(30:02):
and they model it.
They, they and they, they cando a process which I've done a
couple of times already on theshow, where you, you sort of did
I get that right.
What I hear you saying is thisbefore you weigh in with your
own stuff, hear them out, makesure you got it right.
Listening, listening reallyhard, being kind, being
respectful.
These are all domains,important domains.

(30:26):
Are they learning?
Are they sharing?
When they come and visit withyou, are they telling you about
something they just learned?
Some?
Are they reading?
Are they listening to something?
Are they, you know, where arethey?
Do they watch some cool movieand they had a takeaway that was
more than them just having fun.
What you know?
What are they sharing with you?
These are all things.

(30:47):
So I, I, I track everything inmy life and the you know, and I
have a lot of people in my lifea lot of people who I consider
close and friends, and sometimes, over over a period of time,
some people drift away or insome case, I encourage them to
just thank you very much.
It's been great for a number ofyears and now I have other

(31:09):
people in my life who are nowfilling other needs I have and
I'm filling needs of theirs.
There's a reciprocity which isso important in relationships.
So one of the lessons I learnedfrom my dad is have friends of
all ages.
So think about having somebodywho's half your age or somebody

(31:29):
who's 20 years older.
Different kind of way oflooking at life, different
language.
They can, you can learn fromthem and you can uh do a little
teaching, mentoring of them.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's a cool as long as that person is where you want
to be for that specificsituation, while you're hanging
out with them, there you go.
I agree.
I think that's important to add.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I I like your addition, you betcha and I.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Just people just get caught up in thinking they have
to be friends with people, eventhough I think that's important
to add.
I like your addition, you,betcha.
People just get caught up inthinking they have to be friends
with people, even though theyjust do themselves a disservice
by bringing them down becausethey've been friends for so long
, which I don't agree with.
If you have people that bringyou down and make you a worse
person, remove yourself fromthat situation.
You can outgrow friend groups,you can outgrow people, but on

(32:16):
the flip side of that you're youmentioned relationships like
spouses in particular.
I love this like you're.
My wife and I are polaropposites and I did that on
purpose because I have extremesin like the super outgoing
eccentric and would say stupidshit all the time and she's like
really reserved.
So after 10 years of together,we're way more like in the

(32:37):
middle of both of us and reallyfound that happy medium.
So now I'm listening to peoplebetter, I'm understanding people
more, I'm not jumping aroundoff the walls like a lunatic.
So it's what I needed in mylife and we came together and
worked together to be theaverage of each other in a
better place.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Nice, nice.
You know this is theopportunity that waits all of us
to continue to evolve.
You can evolve with yourwhiteboard and my little
journaling.
You can just understandyourself.
You can evolve by making thatcommitment to you know, seeing
somebody, bringing somebody elsein your life who is really good

(33:18):
at whatever they're good atlistening, they're good at
learning, they're good atwhatever and you say I'd like
more of that.
So bring them in.
Bring them in Doesn't mean youhave to be super best buddies
forever.
It's just you know you have arelationship in that arena.
It's cool, I love you have arelationship in that arena.
It's cool, I love it.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
What else is in your book do you think is important
to help people thrive and be abetter person?
It's a big point that you'dlike to stress off of it.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Well, so my book is.
It has some stories about me,but it's really not about me.
It's about the walkthrough lifethat I've had, which has been
good.
I've had to overcome someobstacles, so I talk about those
.
It also has some research in itand studies that I point to

(34:10):
because I want to ground this innot just somebody giving an
opinion, but serious work over,in some cases, longitudinal,
long periods of time, wherepeople have been lots and lots
of hundreds and thousands ofpeople have been checked.
So one of these is the sevenpersonal qualities that lead to

(34:37):
life satisfaction andachievement.
And when I'm doing a talk I say, would anybody like to know
what those seven are?
And everybody's like, yeah, me,I want to know, tell me what's
that.
So the seven, in no particularorder, are zest, grit, mental
toughness, being optimistic,having you know, being

(35:01):
relentlessly positive, curiosity, being a lifelong learner and
in difficult circumstances, andsocial intelligence, which leads
to better communication andbetter relationships.

(35:24):
And I say because I'm an author, I get to add an eighth one,
which is humor, where you canlaugh at the situation or laugh
at yourself.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think a highlight on that one, the one that like
stuck up and slapped me acrossthe face, is grit, which, for
those that listen to the show, Itook grit and asked the
question is grit teachable?
And then broke it down duringthe show to come to an answer
that For myself and for theaudience about whether or not

(35:58):
grit is something that'sactually teachable.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And Do you?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
want to know the answer.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Well, I know I have my answer, but I want to hear
yours, Anthony.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
So the simplistic way to explain it, without diving
into everything we talked about,is there's a study on rats with
tension pulling on a wire.
Do you know this study?

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Keep going?
Yeah, so they put a reward infront of a cheese, see how much
it pulled, pulled a little more,took the cheese away, put cap
hormones behind it, pulled alittle more this time than just
going for the cheese.
And then they did theinteresting thing they put both
and that's when the rat pulledthe hardest.
So the answer whether or not,if grid is teachable, the answer

(36:45):
is yes, but it can't just be areward.
You have to have somethingpushing you from behind to make
you keep going forward.
A great example isentrepreneurs who have lost
everything, need this to work orthey end up starving, broke on
the street, and the reward isknowing how much money and they
can make in a long run.
And there's many examplesthrough many different aspects

(37:06):
of life associated with grit.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
But it's definitely teachable as long as you have
reward and hardship behind it Ilike that and, and you know,
part of having grit, which isbeing mentally tough, is it just
gives you resilience.
And I like to talk aboutresilience as a ball.
So if you're resilient, it's arubber ball and if you saw a

(37:33):
ball in slow motion hitting theground, it deflates for a minute
, sort of you know, doesn't havea round shape, and it makes
that sound depending on whatkind of rubber it is and what
kind of floor it is.
Okay.
So, so being right, okay, butif, if, if you had a like a
bowling ball and you dropped iton the ground, it's going to

(37:55):
make a very different sound.
It's probably going to dent thefloor and then it's going to
roll away.
It's not going to bounce backup.
So you know, resilience issomething that's part of having
grit, that you, when you havegrit, when you have you're
mentally tough, you're able tobounce back, you can come back.

(38:16):
The rubber ball is part of whoyou are and how you think of
yourself.
And yeah, okay, you say I hadthis problem.
It was about five years ago ortwo months ago, whenever it was,
and you know, I got through itand I had to kind of pull myself
together.
I had to use my whiteboard.
I had to use rand's.
You know journaling technique.

(38:37):
I had to, you know, and I wentfor it and I got through it.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, I think it's an important component to have
something pushing you frombehind, scaring you away, and
then you're chasing somethingelse, and that's really what
defines and makes grit stand out, and I think it's important for
people just to understand that.
All those points you made allseven of them, his humor, which
I think is super important Ilaugh at myself.

(39:05):
I think I'm the funniest personin the world and no one else
thinks so.
That's great, that's how youknow you're doing well, right,
but uh, I do love all of that.
I think it's important.
I don't think you mentionedanything that was like a stand
out.
No, I think everything wasgreat, just especially.
Uh, what was the word you used?

(39:27):
Self-control.
I think self-control especiallyin society now where half of all
marriages end in divorce likeyou could take the easy way out
and go cheat on your spouse ifyou find a new like matrix
example woman in the red dressbecause you think it's going to
be better.
But realistically, it's waybetter of a life to have the

(39:48):
self-control, to not jump at animpulse and instead work on your
relationship with your wife.
And then, all of a sudden, lifestarts becoming better and
happier because you know whatDoesn't matter how pretty
someone is.
Everyone has their issues,everyone has their flaws and
it's just a different pile ofshit you're going to deal with.
So why not work on the one thatyou spent time working on, that

(40:11):
you love and you appreciate,who's been there for you forever
, and make that person a star,to make them feel better, to
make them better humans, to makeyourself a better human and
then ultimately have a betterlife, not only for yourselves,
but now you have a great exampleto your kids.
So your kids could pick up thatexample and take that 50%
divorce rate and let's bring itall the way down to zero.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I love it.
I love it.
You know you're going to lovethis, Anthony, given that you
have two gyms and you have thisfabulous podcast, Health and
Fitness.
I define self-control asexercise, exercising restraint

(40:54):
over yourself, exercisingrestraint over yourself, your
emotions, your desires, youractions, your impulses,
exercising and, as I say,especially at difficult times.
Yeah, totally couldn't agreemore Rand.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
I want to thank you for coming on the show.
We definitely learned a lot.
We went 41 minutes, so it'sbeen awesome.
I want to ask you the coming onthe show.
We definitely learned a lot.
We went 41 minutes, so it'sbeen awesome.
I want to ask you the final twoquestions I ask everybody.
The first question is is itworth to summarize this episode
in one or two sentences,Whatever you take on message?

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Well, one is.
Without being soundingself-serving, anthony, you're a
great host, you're cool, I'veenjoyed it.
I've written down a couple ofthings that I'm going to borrow,
and the first couple of timesI'm going to borrow them I say,
well, this great guy, anthony,told me about them.
And then, after about the thirdtime, I say I came up with it
myself.
So it's good.

(41:54):
I'm hoping that, because we'vecovered some interesting topics.
It's not the topics I thoughtwe'd be talking about, so maybe
we'll have to have another visit.
You know that we covered somestuff that I think can be very
valuable to people.
People do get stuck.
That's just the nature.
I like to tell people that lifeis a series of experiments and

(42:17):
we know from whatever seventh,eighth grade science, not every
experiment works the first time.
Some need some, you know,tweaking and redoing, and some
never work.
So that's what life is, and soyou know we've gone down this
path of looking at you know whatsome of the things are, some of
the challenges and how to dealwith them.

(42:39):
So I hope it's a gift.
I hope people get some benefitout of it yeah, yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
I definitely appreciate my second question,
easiest one of all how canpeople find your book, how can
people get ahold of you?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
they want to learn more well, the easiest way to to
find me is by going to my bookwebsite, which is
wwwrandsalesandsamcom.
There's a whole lot ofinformation there about the book
, some unbelievable testimonials, information about me.

(43:13):
There's, I think, 40 of myfavorite quotes by chapter.
So people download those andthen pull them out and say, okay
, today it's this one and youcan contact me.
And, of course, you can orderthe book through Amazon or
through your, you know, anindependent Barnes, noble or
whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
All right.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for this, guys.
So this week's episode ofHealth and Fitness Redefined.
Don't forget, subscribe to theshow, share with a friend.
Thank you for tolerating withme at the gym today and I hope
you all really appreciate thisepisode.
Don't forget fitness ismedicine.
Until next time thanks, anthony.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Thank you.
Outro Music.
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