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February 17, 2025 39 mins

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Movement serves as a vital sign for overall health, often overlooked in traditional fitness paradigms. Andrew, our guest, shares his journey from various professional realms to fitness technology, emphasizing the importance of quick, efficient movement screenings for injury prevention and enhanced physical performance.

• The significance of movement in overall well-being 
• Exploring Andrew's career journey into the fitness tech space 
• Benefits of rapid movement screenings over traditional methods 
• The interplay between mobility and stability across different fitness populations 
• The role of technology in personal health tracking and assessments 
• Movement screenings improve training efficacy and health outcomes 
• Need for a holistic approach in fitness—combining strength, mobility, and movement analysis

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony.
Amen and today, another greatepisode for all of you.
Hopefully by the time this showcomes out it's not 15 degrees
out That'd be wonderful andhopefully it starts warming up.
But without further ado, let'swelcome to the show, andrew.
Andrew, it's a pleasure to haveyou on today.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thanks, anthony, great to be here to the show.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Andrew.
Andrew, it's a pleasure to haveyou on today.
Thanks, anthony, great to behere.
Yeah, man, I'm excited to dothis.
I'm really excited about thistopic because I think it's so
interesting.
I have had deep diveconversations with people at my
gym about tracking and all thatfun stuff and what it really
means, and all that andeverything but.
But they're not going to spoilanything, so, without further
ado, just tell us a little bitabout yourself and how you got
into the health and fitnessworld.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I'll start from the beginning.
I was born in South Africa,notwithstanding my accent, moved
to Dallas when I was eight andkids made fun of me for the way
I spoke.
So I changed that quickly.
Did my undergrad up at Brown,played tennis there I wouldn't
have got in based on academicsso good thing I could hit a
tennis there.
I wouldn't have got in based onon academics so good thing I
could hit a tennis ball.
And um, did the law school MBA,but I'm technically a lawyer.

(01:13):
I've never practiced uminvestment banking up in New
York.
And uh, when I was 30, I decidedthat, you know, I was young,
naive and arrogant guy thatfigured I could start a company
and just make it big and didthat and got just my ass kicked
but learned, learned a lot oflessons.

(01:33):
Unfortunately, it took me nineyears.
You know.
One of those lessons was just,you got to do something that you
have passion about.
So I was.
I saw a business opportunity,working in college, health
centers, doing insurance billingand software, and I mean that
was awful.
It just it wasn't exciting togo to work.

(01:54):
It wasn't exciting dealing withgovernment entities either.
And then, right after that, Iwas on the board of TriggerPoint
and ended up becoming CEO,which, if people don't know and
they may recognize the orangefoam roller, and that was really

(02:14):
my introduction into fitness.
I was lucky to meet a lot ofpeople from TRX while at
TriggerPoint, uh, from TRX whileat trigger point, and, you know
, fast forward a few years.
Uh, someone I used to work withat trigger point gave me a
movement assessment and it wasgreat.

(02:34):
They had a bunch of movements,gave me a score, told me where
I'm having movement issues andgave me a program to try and
move better.
And I mean, and my, you know,my injuries are, are, are, are
bad, um, and they're all on thesame side because I'm very
asymmetric, which is the secondleading cause of injury, uh,
behind previous injury.

(02:54):
So tons of, uh, tons ofinjuries.
Movement assessment wasinteresting.
The problem was thing took 15minutes.
Um, I needed someone there toguide me through it, so I never
did it again, and so I thought,hey, this is a great concept.
We need to, we need to learn,um, you know how to move better

(03:17):
and you can't manage yourmovement if you can't measure it
.
And so the idea was let'screate a screen that's quick
it's 30 seconds, you canself-assess and that way you can
get super high throughput andand measure frequently.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
So uh, that covers uh 51 years in about 90 seconds
that was really good thanks, manI feel like there's a lot of
gray in between, but we gotthere.
I want to talk about being onthe board of trigger point
because I think that's freakingawesome and a lot of people
probably don't even know what itis, but I think it's important

(03:51):
to talk about and my officialrelease in and of itself, I feel
like, is just now becoming moremainstream.
Like you don't really, weintroduce people to it every day
and they kind of look at us andblink and they're like what is
this?
And you're like, yeah, this iscalled TriggerPoint, stealing it
right off of that.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat company in particular, what

(04:13):
it was like working on thatboard and then what the main
objective of being a part ofTriggerPoint was.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, so I met the founder, cassie Phillips.
I used to do Ironman stuff andI met him at an expo before a
race and he was doing a hell ofa job just trying to build it
out of, you know, out of his vanand go into events and and was

(04:40):
manufacturing out of Atlanta.
And I'm like dude, that's,that's not going to work because
it's really expensive inAtlanta versus where everyone
else is manufacturing.
So he just needed to raise alittle bit of money, helped him
do that and joined the boardwith a gentleman named Hank.
Coleman was on and Hank and Ior Hank's now working with me at

(05:01):
Fizmodo, which is super cool.
Hank's now working with me atuh at Fizmodo, which is, which
is super cool, and uh and soyeah.
So then once uh, uh triggerpoint got to a certain stage and
I was where I was in my career,cassidy stepped aside as CEO
and I came in to run the companyum, which which was awesome.
Uh, it was a great experience,unlike my, my college health

(05:24):
billing, software, nonsense justsomething I loved I had a lot
of passion for, and so,unfortunately, in less than a
year, cassidy wanted to be CEOagain, so I got fired, but it
was a lot of fun, met some greatpeople and yeah, it was so new
back then.
I mean, movement was like whatthe hell?

(05:45):
And then you know that wasbefore.
You know your, you know hype,the hypervolts and and, and
there are guns of the world andyou know the world, the world
self massage has just gottenhuge.
But I really do think triggerpoint was at the forefront and
it's not to to my credit, it'sto Cassidy's yeah, I definitely
think it's gotten more and morepredominant.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
People are realizing how important it is, people even
realizing what fascia is.
Do you want explaining?
The fascia is because trainersbomb this question, so at least
ones that don't have jobs withus.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
I didn't say like so, just just just because I run a
technology company, now youcan't ask me any technical
questions and I should.
Just because I ran triggerpoint, you can't ask me fascia
questions.
No, I mean, it's just stufflike running under the, the, the
, the skin.
That's, um, you know, uh, howdo I best give the give the best

(06:43):
analogy?
Um, I don't really know a goodanalogy, but it's all tangled up
in a web and it needs to getright yeah, yeah, we should.
We need to go back, and nexttime we do this you need to give
me the questions.
Um, you're gonna ask so I don'tlook like a idiot when I answer
them or can't answer them.
I should say in this casefascia, all really is.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
It connects lower muscles together in a white
filmy substance, so it makeseverything move as one and
sometimes it gets locked up andstuck.
So myofascial release usingsomething like trigger point or
using something like cross ball,golf ball and holding pressure
on a dairy.
That pressure, the brain willrelease oxytocin which will hit

(07:28):
that fascia and then send arelease hormone to it, usually
after like 20 seconds, which iswhy you roll, find a spot, hold
it and then go to the next one.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
The only thing I can tell you is do not roll your
lower back.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
That's true At least on the spot.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
That's all I can add.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
You picked the wrong guest.
You thought that wasn't evenyour company, so we're fine.
I want to talk about ummovement screenings anyway,
which is the next logical step.
That's what you're doing now.
So you have an app just fromwhat I quickly understood where
it can monitor a functionalmovement screening so it can see
how your body moves in motionand kind of give you an idea of
what's under overactive.
Is that correct?
If you talk about that a littlemore yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
So you know, our goal here was and there are a lot of
great movement screens outthere some of the limitations
that that we saw were let'sstart with this, it's taking too
long.
So think about this you haveall these wearables now, so your
whoops or Apple Fitness,whatever it may be, and you wake

(08:36):
up and you have your HRV oryour oxidation or whatever it
may be.
So just think about this.
Imagine that you only screenedyour sleep and your HRV, and all
that once every few months.

(08:57):
That information would becompletely worthless because
there's so many variables.
I mean, if you've been on aplane all day, you probably are
going to sleep a littledifferently.
You're moving time zones.
You had a good workout, youdidn't do anything, whatever it
may be, so it's great.
You can wake up and you can getyour biometrics every single
day, so you kind of know whatyour baseline is.

(09:17):
The problem with movement isthere are also a lot of
variables dictating how you'removing from day to day.
Again, if you're sitting in acar all day, if you had a huge
deadlift day to day before, howyou slept the day before, so to
measure movement once every fewmonths, I mean, what good, does
that really do?
And so the goal was let's do amovement screen.

(09:40):
Yeah, you can't wake up andfigure out how your, your body
moves, but a 30 second screenyou can self assess and do it
anywhere.
And that way we're getting likewe tell people get three to
five assessments over the firstcouple weeks.
Let's find your baseline and soyou know you can, you can, you

(10:00):
can go from there and get somereal information.
Because if I'm getting, let'scall it a 55, and I one day have
a 45, I mean something's goingon right there.
But at least I have a goodbaseline to go from.
And you have to have that quickscreen.

(10:22):
So we just have you do threeoverhead squats, we measure.
You get a composite score basedon your mobility, your
stability, your posture and yoursymmetry.
We'll give you indicators toshow where you're having some
movement issues and a correctiveuh program to try and address
them you know, my first questionis going to be why the overhead
squat?

(10:44):
uh, well, first of all, wewanted to only stick with one
movement because I think onceyou get into more, it just
becomes more difficult toself-assess and you're not going
to get the throughput andrepeatability that you'd want.
The overhead squat's a part ofevery single assessment.
That's that's out there.

(11:04):
There's also data that showsthat the overhead your score on
the overhead squat is a is agreat predictor of your overall
functional movement screen score.
Um, you know, and then you'regetting.
You know, closed chain, lowerbody, open chain, upper body.
It's.
It's a difficult movement.

(11:24):
So we're able to get so muchinformation that I think it's
plenty of information to get tobe able to do something with.
Are we getting absolutelyeverything?
No, not at all.
But I'd say we're getting 75,80% of what you need.
You need and you kind of lookat some of these other screens

(11:47):
out there that have a ton ofdifferent movements.
I don't see them as competition.
So let's take whatever screenit is.
That's 15 minutes.
Take the functional movementscreen.
That takes about 15 minutes foryour average practitioner.
Does somebody need to be that'sgetting a great score on us?
Need to do an FMS?
No, but if you're gettingsomeone that is getting a
terrible score on their PhysMotoscreen.

(12:08):
Yeah, maybe we should be afeeder into somebody like an FMS
and, you know, let's take adeeper dive into what that
person's doing.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
It's one of my favoritemovements.
I was just curious why on yourend?
And then I'm assuming the threesquats are just three different
angles, correct?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
No, you assume incorrectly.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
No, it's all forward.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
So I said I know nothing about technology.
I know a little bit, so I'mgoing to get a little bit
technical here.
So there's, let's just take aniPhone.
You have two cameras one on thefront, one in the back.
The one in the back is a lidar,it's 3d, um, the one on the
front is 2d, it's a color camera.

(12:55):
It's only capturing frontalplane.
Uh, the problem is if you'reusing the 3d camera, if you're
using the 3D camera, you can'tsee the actual screen of the
iPhone.
That's going to make it verydifficult to self-assess if you
can't see the screen.
So we had to figure out a wayto use that front camera and

(13:16):
make it effectively a 3D camera,and so we used inverse
kinematics basically a fancy wayof saying an algorithm, and we
were able to get the sameaccuracy using that front camera
as we would if you're gettingusing lidar and got a nice
little patent on that, and sothat's why we're able to achieve

(13:38):
the ability to self-assess andhave the accuracy that we do
yeah, you lost me at 3d, butthis is okay.
The tech side is like okay, I'mgonna untack it for you all,
right.
So, xbox, right, okay, games onthe xbox, a baseball game on

(14:01):
the xbox, whatever it is, you,you're, you're, you're, you're
having to throw something, Idon't care what sport it is.
On a video game using the Xbox,there's a.
There's a camera, that whichMicrosoft is called the
Microsoft connects cameras.
They've subsequentlydiscontinued it, but that camera
looks at your body and can tellwhere your joints are, and so,

(14:22):
in a game where you're throwinga baseball or hitting a tennis
ball or doing dance moves orwhatever it's recognizing your,
the camera can recognize yourwrist, your elbow and your
shoulder and it can kind ofestimate.
You know what you're doing withthat, and hence that's how the
video game happens.
Well, phones can do that now,which is kind of cool, yeah, but

(14:47):
that fancy 3D camera that cancapture everything is better
than just a 2D camera, and we'vemade oversimplifying, we've
made a 2D camera a 3D camera,that's pretty cool.
Yeah, I didn't do it, Ourengineers did.

(15:08):
But yeah, it is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
No, but I like the idea.
And then just in terms, I knowyou were talking about measuring
certain things like heart rateand blood, ox levels, rem sleep,
all that fun stuff.
Why is measuring movementfrequently important?

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Well, in almost everything I say, say I steal
from Chris Frankel, who's one ofthe smartest guys, um, however,
so, so when you hear me talkabout this front camera, back
camera stuff and don'tunderstand what I'm saying,
that's me listening to ChrisFrankel.
But he did um, he was chiefsports scientist at, at TRX and
and now at at Beaver fit one,definitely one of the smartest

(15:51):
guys I've ever met.
And he said look and this was10 years ago movement is the
forgotten component of fitness.
Because we look at all theseother, you know, measurements
like how much can you lift andhow fast can you run and so
forth, but it doesn't matter ifyou can't move, none of that
shit matters, right, but kind ofto your question about all

(16:12):
these things that we'remeasuring on the biometric side,
so you know, whether it's HRVor blood pressure or cholesterol
, we're trying to getmeasurements so that we can
intervene if the, if the numbersare bad.
But you know, in addition tomovement being the forgotten

(16:32):
component of fitness, and welike to say that movement is a
vital sign.
If you look at longevity I meanthere's a lot of discussion on
that right now and takerapamycin or do this or do that,
or you know, um, and if youcan't move, uh, things aren't
going to work out too well, andso we want to be able to say,

(16:54):
look, yeah, well, don't get megoing on cholesterol.
I have feelings about that andthe uselessness of a basic lipid
panel.
But I mean we're, we're, we'repaying attention to all these
other things, but we're notmeasuring movement.
I mean we're paying attentionto all these other things, but
we're not measuring movement.
I mean the number one and weused to have this as a slide on

(17:18):
our sales deck or investor deckwhich is the percentage of
Americans reporting thefollowing chronic conditions and
31% was circulatory, 28% wasrespiratory, 13% was diabetic,
but this was 2012.
So that 13% is now probablylike 65%, sadly, but
musculoskeletal was 54%.
I mean there's 750 million lostwork days or something due to

(17:45):
back injuries.
I don't know how people come upwith these stats, but even if
it's anywhere close to that,that's absurd.
We're doing all this work,measuring this other shit, and
yet we're not measuring movement, which is one of the biggest
issues, if not the biggestissues, for our health, and that
just doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I mean, I 100% agree with you.
You're literally talking aboutour business model, so you're
right in our realm.
As far as what we're doing atthe gym and I I think it's
important to stress theimportance.
When you go to your typical gymor whatever, a lot of people
want to focus on running reallyfast, lifting really heavy, and
they just say I'm just going togo and just do whatever and

(18:24):
throw myself around, whereas thedifference with us and you're
not going to get anywhere elseis the movement pattern of, like
you said, how is your bodymoving?
How is your body working?
How can we make your body movemore efficiently?
It's not so much about running amile in six minutes when it's
more about hey, you've had thatshoulder pain for two years.
We're going to do somemyofascial release techniques,

(18:45):
show you some stretching andshow you some dynamic movements
and some exercises to help thatshoulder feel better, and then
all of a sudden, that paindisappears.
So now you start feeling betterand your shoulder no longer
hurts.
Therefore, you incorporate moreexercise in your life and
you're, overall, happier.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
So, yeah, couldn't agree more yeah, and and here's
the deal is also, if you knowpersonal training, whether it,
whether it's, is it?
I haven't done it in a longtime Do they cut you off at 50
minutes or do you get like afull hour?
But?
whatever it is good for you guys.
It's the big, thedifferentiator.
I know it's critical for you asa trainer to understand how

(19:24):
they're moving, because that maydictate you know how that
session is going to be.
You may have a program plannedfor the day, but you know that
person again variables somethingmay.
You know they've been sittingat a desk all day long or
whatever the case.

(19:44):
You kind of want to know howthey're moving.
But your client's probably notgoing to want you to take 10
minutes to figure out how theirmovement's going, because now
they're down to 50 minutes or inmany cases 40 minutes, right,
they want to get into it.
But if you can take 30 secondsand see how they're moving and
say you know what?
We had heavy deadlifts today orkettlebell swings or whatever

(20:09):
it may be, but your hip mobilityis down big time today and I
don't know why.
But let's maybe do a little bitmore work and get that moving a
little better.
And you know 30 seconds, we canrescreen after a couple minutes
of some correctives.
Or you know what we're going toscale this workout or we're
going to do something different.
I just don't understand how youcan go blindly into training

(20:32):
someone without knowing howthey're moving that day and I
get it, it's, it's.
It's nothing against thetrainers, but again, what client
wants to spend 10, 15 minutesof their session going through
how they're moving?

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, so that's your typical trainer and this is what
differentiates us, which is whywe know what we call personal
trainers, we call specialists.
But what this relies into isyou need to be good enough.
You need to have a goodunderstanding of biomechanics
and how the body works.
You put someone everyone'sgonna have to warm up right.
You need to do some kind ofdynamic warm-up and we can
analyze your movement screeningthrough that dynamic warmup to

(21:09):
tell hips tight, ankles tight.
This is we need to work on this, we need to loosen this up.
So just watching that dynamicwarmup gives us the insight of
okay, we need to change up anddo this.
I have when I used to train.
It was all the times we'resquatting right, we're doing
just bodyweight squats, and Inoticed this tiny shift of

(21:30):
weight into your right side.
You're now throwing your hipoff to your right side and
pushing yourself up and thattiny shift.
Nine and a half out of tentrainers won't pick up.
They just go yeah, we're gonnaload it.
You don't want to loadsomething if it's not moving in
the right movement patterns,because you're just gonna get
hurt, end up asymmetric, likeyourself, and then get hurt even

(21:52):
more.
So let's figure out why you'rehip shifting off to the right
and then let's do some releasetechniques.
Maybe we have your performanceis super locking up on you and
then we'll reanalyze, hop backinto that squat and redo it if,
or change the program leveltogether, depending on what it
is yeah, so um, uh, didn'tdidn't mean to like to to

(22:14):
suggest anything other than um,with respect to how you guys are
training, because there arevery different levels.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
But our industry is crazy.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
You have people we do so many interviews of people we
have to reject that have beentrainers for years that don't
know the simple things and it'sjust like I get why, like
yourself, and why I've had somany guests in the show said the
same thing, like yeah, like abad experience yeah, I get it.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, we're changing the game.
So what I love about what soyou guys are extremely
knowledgeable and you can, youknow, maybe pick up with some
others can't, and what mayaccentuate that, and you can
have our software, you can useit as much as you want in your
facility is now we canobjectively tell that person's

(23:08):
like let's look at their hipmobility, left versus right.
You have their baseline.
How is it doing today?
So, yeah, you'll know, you'llnotice that, but now you can
give your your client a number,get them trying to prove, and
then you know also whether it'sthat or kind of going down to
the basics of your dorsiflexionwe're looking at, you know,
ankle mobility.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
People try and gamify this all the time.
So you know, we, we give you,we measure squat depth and
people are like, all right, I, Iknow I'm going to get it better
, I'm going to do this again.
Uh, I'm going to beat my score,so they'll squat deeper and yet
.
But we're also measuring yourforward torso lean.
So you're going to get dingedon that.
And why we're not?
We're not providing diagnostics, we're just giving you

(23:50):
information.
But the most likely reason isbecause they have shitty
dorsiflexion, so, in order tosquat more, they compensate by
leaning forward.
So, again, our job is to giveyou, as a, as a fitness
professional objective,information.
You can do whatever the hellyou want with it, um, but we, we
found that the client uh, kindof like seeing the, the

(24:16):
technology piece of it, um, oh,yeah, I don't know but it, it
you know, it in their mind.
It validates the thing that youknow is the case anyway, and
you're telling me, I love it.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
People love games they love having some score to
get higher on and like look howmuch better I'm doing.
And I'd rather than do thatthan sit there and with these
smart watches and track theirheart rates.
It's like yeah you track yourheart rate, but, like, what do
you use information for?
Or you check your steps andwhat do you use the information

(24:51):
for?
So at least the movementscreening, I could say like
moving better throughout the dayand the week and you're in less
pain and you're able to handlehigher work capacity in the gym.
So I totally get and understandthe reasoning behind it and I
think it's freaking awesome,awesome and the fact that you
could take a camera and analyzepeople movements nowadays is

(25:14):
mind-blowing yeah and you knowwhat.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
So I I'm not in your profession and I don't know, for
instance, what.
What your frustrations, youknow, may be sometimes.
But if I were to assume, good,but let's just say I was going
to.
You know you can tell yourclients all day long about
nutrition and this and that and,and you can train them.

(25:38):
But if they're eating like shit, then I mean they're, you know,
I mean their, their weights.
They may lose some weight, butit's not going to be
proportionally the way you wantit.
But also let's just say that ifthey are eating well and you're
training them right, it's stillgoing to take three, four weeks

(25:59):
at least before you can see anoticeable difference.
Maybe in it's good to see thatno one gives a shit about BMI
anymore.
I read that the other day,which is great because that's
silly.
But you can see, like theirbody fat percentage.
You can see a noticeabledifference.
But it'll take, let's call it,a month.
You as a fitness professionalcan change your client's

(26:19):
movement in five minutes and soI think the InBody's and the
eBolt's they're pretty cool, butyou know you can't use that
every five minutes and expectsomeone's body five percentage
to change.
But what I like about ours andthe gamification is you can show
how someone moves, you can givethem your idea of how to

(26:42):
improve their hip mobility andshow them five minutes later
that you know what the hellyou're doing because you just
made a move better yeah, I, Ilove that and I really just
curiosity question.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I know you guys have analyzed thousands of people at
this point, right, so what aresome commonalities that you see
or any certain trends or thingsthat you've noticed from all
this data that you have?

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yes, best mobility from the yogis and they have the
worst stability of anybody.
So you know, as you know,mobility, stability, they both
have to be pretty good.
I think really surprising isthat probably the biggest,
strongest, fastest people movethe worst.

(27:29):
I can't give the specifics ofwhere we are in the military,
but some of those people don'tmove terribly, terribly well,
but they're strong as hell andall that.
But and the problem with thatbecomes is you have a bigger
engine like that and you'reworking hard and you can't move
well, you're just susceptible.

(27:50):
You're just susceptible andthat's why the military is
putting billions and you knowbehind, you know readiness and
you know some of the preventionstuff.
So, yeah, stronger people tendto move worse.
Yoga, better mobility, badstability.
Um, and the, the ankle, thedorsiflexion and the way it just

(28:14):
changed, it changes everythingup the kinetic chain.
It's amazing if somebody'sankle mobility changes, how it
affects everything else in apositive way.
It's.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
You know that I can't , I can't I.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
I tore my left Achilles.
I rehabbed really hard forthree months and started feeling
better and then I got lazy andI'm paying the price now, six
years later.
But yeah, it affects everything.
I don't move that well becauseof my left Achilles tear and I'm
working on it, but I put myselfin a hole.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I love that.
It kind of shows that eventhough you do yoga, you still
need to add some weights in yourlife and can't fully rely on
one practice.
But that kind of goes the samething with the gym.
You can't just lift weights andthen ignore the movements and
how deep in a squat you can go.
People just neglect it becausethey're like I'm just going to
go to the gym, lift heavy andleave like what about everything

(29:10):
else and what about making youfeel better and being able to
lift heavier without hurtingyourself?
Let's focus on movementpatterns and stuff like that,
something.
One thing we've noticed whichis a lot of research behind
femur length, depending on howlow you can go and how much
forward lean you have.
So people with longer torsosand shorter femurs, in a typical

(29:31):
squat, like an overhead squat,we're going to have more forward
lean.
Just in general, just put thebottom mechanically works and
then vice versa the other way.
Is that something that'saccounted for and explained in
the app at all, or is it just?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
like no, but you're giving me good ideas.
I like that.
So we're bringing on more datascience right now, because we
now have enough data to actuallydo something with it, which is,
you know, which is fun the one,actually.
Let me go back.
The one thing that I also findinteresting is you'll sometimes
see somebody that just can'tmove.

(30:04):
Let's just say they're getting60 degrees of squat depth.
That's bad, but those people inmany cases are more symmetric
because they don't have theability to be as asymmetric,
because they're not moving asmuch.
And sometimes you'll see peoplewith incredible mobility, but
they really are favoring oneside over the other.

(30:26):
So, yeah, if you can get to ahundred degrees of squat depth
on one side, a hundred degreesis good, 90 degrees is good, but
if you're a hundred on one side, 90 on the other, that's not
good.
So we are seeing people withincredible mobility that just
don't have that symmetry andagain, that's going to cause a
problem.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, I mean just case in point for myself.
As an example, I my squat deathis like 90, maybe 85.
I'm giving myself too muchcredit but that's no way,
knowing mechanically how I move.
Just having a longer torso makesmeans I have to have either a

(31:05):
forward lean with a low barsquat, or B I have to elevate my
ankles and then I'm able toreally get good depth and
control off of it.
I think it would be interestinghaving that science behind,
like how your body is different,meaning, do you have a longer
torso, do you have a longerfemur, do you have longer arms

(31:26):
or shorter arms?
All those things are going toplay a role with how your body
moves and works and it kind oftakes it to that next level of
really analyzing how your bodyis supposed to move based upon
your musculoskeletal, whichwould be pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah's something that that I found fascinating at um
ursa last year or whatever it'shealth and fitness association
or ursa, you're right, yeahwhatever, it's different now,
different names, so.
But, um, a woman came in who, uh, I don't know what, she maybe

(32:06):
like an executive at somecompany.
She had heels on.
She's like, do I have to dothis?
Should I do this with my heelson or take my shoes off?
I said, you know what, humor me, do it with both.
And our scoring is, you know,one to 150, being average,
although we're playing with thata bit.
She did it with heels and gotan incredible score.

(32:29):
She had like an 80, which is wedon't see a whole lot.
Um, she took her heels off andshe got a 50.
So the ability to just get thatelevation, it's just kind of
like, you know you, you know yougo do your squatting and you
change your shoes, you get alittle more heel lift.

(32:49):
So you know, I just think againthat it just all comes down to
the ankles and I just think it'sfascinating that someone can
get a score 30 points higher inheels, because I think that's
counterintuitive.
You're like, oh, okay, she's inheels, she's less stable,
stable, she's not going to do aswell, but no, just having those
elevated heels helps big timein your movement.

(33:11):
And so when she did not havethose heels?
Um, it showed that those extrawhatever four inches helped
compensate for something.
And again, that's just.
That's just numbers andinformation.
You're the expert, you figureout what that means dorsiflexion
.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Like I said before her atib, the muscle that
controls dorsiflexion in theankle is super tight.
That's the same issue.
And yeah, it's it.
Just you can't get to get stuck.
You feel like you can't moveand it's all fun.
And for those that don't know,that's's the shin, that's the
front of the calf.
But, it's just like can't move.

(33:48):
Yeah, exactly, raise up theheel and you relax that a little
bit and you're good to go, man,or throw yourself in a sumo
squat, and then you can stillget even further.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
I love it.
Is there anything that's justto start wrapping this up?
Is there anything more to comeinside the app or anything
you're working on next with it,or kind of how you're going to
take this to the next level,kind of like we talked about?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, there's.
We have a roadmap through Q1 of2026.
We're in 2025 now, I think.
Yeah, so next year.
One thing I'll just say reallyquickly is we have really three
pieces of our software.
We have an enterprise version,pardon me, so you would have

(34:33):
that in studio.
We have the consumer app thatall your clients could have and
they could screen, you know,when they're not with you and
you could kind of see and trackwhat's going on.
And then that middleware, whichis you as the, as the fitness
professional, your, yourdashboard to track their, uh,
movement.
Give them some, you know,corrective protocols, whatever

(35:10):
it's your, it's your, it's thegateway there.
But what, what?
What we're really working on andI think will be really
fascinating is working with acompany.
Have you come across the guysat Rook?
I'll say this in non-technicalterms.
Basically, they have technologythat will to give people the
option to bring in theirwearable information into our

(35:33):
app through what the guys atRook are doing.
So you have a whoop Okay, youcan get your whoop data now put
into our app.
So now we can look at yourbiometrics and your biomechanics
with what we're doing and weare trying to figure out a like
a true recovery score, whatwe're doing and we are trying to
figure out a like a truerecovery score, because you
can't just look at your movementand you can't just look at your
biometrics and tell me, um, how, how ready I am really quick.

(35:58):
I know you said wrap it up andI've taken three minutes already
, but I went on a long hike inthe summer.
All right, um, because I have acouple torn meniscus I'm
dealing with.
So, um, slept extremely wellthat night after a long hike,
got a 97, uh, on my readinessscore with the message to go do

(36:18):
something today because, like,it's your peak day, go work hard
.
Well, I had a 34 on our screenbecause my knees were totally
and and all I wanted to do wassit on the couch and use my
compression device.
So how do I take my 34 and that97?
Like, what is my, what is myreadiness that day?
I think that's super hard tofigure out, but we're going to

(36:39):
try.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Oh, I have the answer .

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh well, then let's do that off air, cause I don't
want anyone else to know what'sthe answer.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
It's the average of both, and the reason I'm going
to say that is because you canincrease your score if you want
to go for that, for likesleeping and recovery by doing
some sort of movement.
And the more movement you do,the more exhaust your body and
the better night's sleep you'regoing to get.
Movement it works on extremes,so doing nothing, your muscles

(37:09):
is going to get super tight.
Doing too much like your heightis going to keep you super
tight and exposed.
So that middle ground is what'sgoing to get you a better score
.
So doing some kind of movementis going to theoretically
increase your recovery score,but making sure you're not going
too extreme off the movementand being in the middle of it.
That's why a workout shouldn'tbe to like I'm toast burnt,

(37:29):
can't move, can't get off thefloor.
It should make you feel goodand feel like, oh my God, I did
something.
My body moved.
I got a good 45 minutes in.
I didn't work out for three anda half hours or go for a
four-hour hike, but I didsomething at intensity for 45
minutes to an hour.
I feel great.
It's enough to make sure I goto bed and get a relatively high
score.
And then putting them twotogether will give you where you

(37:51):
need to be.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
All right.
Well, that's a head start and Iguess that's the question.
We'll look at the data.
Is it 50-50?
I don't know, but that's whatwe want to figure out, and so
I'm excited to see what we cando.
There are tons of other coolstuff on just some of our
roadmap.
Maybe we can jump back on in ayear or less.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh, I'm so in.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Awesome dude.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
All right, andrew, I'm just going to wrap this up,
Like I said.
The first question is if youwere to summarize this episode
in one or two sentences, whatwould be your take-home message?
I'm sorry I missed that firstpart.
It's okay if you want tosummarize this episode in one or
two sentences.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
What's your take-home message?
My take-home message ismovement is a vital sign, so pay
attention to it I love it.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
And the second one how do people find your app?
Learn more and all that funstuff?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
uh, I'm not on social media very much at all and
that's very irresponsible.
But uh, best way to reach me isjust on on linkedin, linkedin.
I'd love to hear from anybodyabout ideas, potential
partnerships, just you know,good conversation about the
industry.
Uh, yeah, linkedin please Ilove it.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Thank you so much, andrew, for coming on.
Thank you, guys for listeningthis week's episode of health,
fitness redefined.
Don't forget sharing, sharingwhere we grow the show and
follow along.
Guys, thank you so much.
Until next time, don't forget,fitness is medicine.
Thank you, outro Music.
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