March 17, 2025 • 37 mins
The episode highlights the urgent need for improved mental health support within the healthcare field and addresses the crisis of physician burnout following the pandemic. Our guest, an experienced physician, shares her deeply personal journey from stress and overwhelming responsibilities to advocating for holistic health practices.
• Journey of a physician transforming her approach to wellness
• Insights into the overwhelming pressures faced by healthcare workers during the pandemic
• The importance of mental health support and its impact on medical professionals
• Contemplation of societal misconceptions surrounding physician fatigue and burnout
• Discussing the critical need for preventive medicine and nutrition education
• Encouraging a reconnection with purpose for healthcare workers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to Help the Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we have another great
episode for all of you today, sowithout further ado, let's dive
into it.
Welcome, pam.
It's a pleasure to have you ontoday.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, hi, thanks for having me on.
I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
All the way from Missouri.
So nice central US state, loveit.
Pam, tell us a little bit abouthow you got into the health and
fitness world and what made youwant to come on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, I've wanted to be a doctor since I was 12.
And so I did become one.
My pediatrician was really cooland I've been a physician for
the last 20 years, currentlyworking in an emergency room.
And then I kind of went on ajourney a few years ago,
realizing that, you know, theway I was trained as a physician
focuses on taking care of sickpeople, and I wanted to know how
(00:57):
to keep people well, especiallyafter the pandemic.
I was thinking how can we domore service by teaching people
how to prevent disease versusreactively, more proactively?
And during the pandemic I wasworking all the time.
I became unhealthy myself,gained a lot of weight and
stressed out to the point that Iwas more than burnt out.
(01:18):
I felt like I just didn't wantto be here anymore and I
realized it wasn't just onething, it was several things.
Of course it was because I'm anemergency room doctor and I was
working during a pandemic, so Iwas thinking that was the thing
.
But that was really not it.
I wasn't taking good care ofmyself, I wasn't getting any
rest, I wasn't doing anyself-care and I wasn't taking
care of my mental and physicalhealth, and so once I got a hold
(01:40):
of that.
It was a journey and I thinkthat the universe has you go
through things so you can be abetter servant.
So I learned how to be a betterdoctor and realized I needed to
teach more people how to take astep back, slow down, focus on
what your purpose is, focus onyour mental health, take care of
your body, and so I operatemore in doing that.
(02:02):
Now I have backed away fromdoing the er as much I do
speaking and coaching now,because I think we need to do
more preventative medicine yeah,I mean I really couldn't agree
more with that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
he's mentioned that you got you felt burnout and
stress and all that during thecovert time in the er, and I
think that's a good place tostart for us.
Walk me through a little bitabout one how overwhelmed you
were and then two tie it intowhy were people so rushed coming
into the hospital?
(02:36):
Why did it get so overwhelming?
Why did you experience howoverwhelmed you were?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Walk us through that the overwhelm was in the sheer
numbers.
I mean, you know, it was thepercentage of doctors versus the
whole world.
And everyone was so afraid.
I get that, and you know,information was coming in at the
speed of light.
A lot of it was misinformation,Some of it we could take, and
(03:02):
then, let's be honest, ourofficials just didn't know and
as doctors on the field, we wereusing our brains and making it
up as we go.
We took some of what thoughtshe said and some of them were
like man, I don't know.
And so that's that's how wewere.
That's how I was practiced bythe seat of my pants.
It was exhausting and you know,not only do you have to practice
medicine, you're also atherapist, you're comforting
(03:24):
people and we couldn't let somepatients in.
You're with people in theirfinal moments and it's like
being at war.
You didn't think about thesheer magnitude of what you were
doing.
All you could think of is theworld needed us and people were
banging pots.
People were sending us food,all crap food.
I realize that now weappreciated it, but pizza, and
(03:46):
that no wonder I felt sluggishwhile I was working.
But during that time we wereall trying to hold together.
I never got sick.
I never got COVID the wholetime.
So I ended up working a lotmore than my other colleagues.
Some of my colleagues succumbedto COVID.
One got really sick and he wasin ICU.
He still uses oxygen, so he'snot working anymore, he's
permanently disabled.
(04:07):
One of my colleagues at adifferent hospital committed
suicide and that was a pointwhere I was like I need to take
care of myself, I need toreassess, because I knew I was
feeling some kind of way and Iwas just trying to work my way
through it, like just take moreshifts, stay busy, stay busy.
And I also wasn't able to seemy family.
I was terrified to see them.
Really I was trying to avoidthem because I didn't want to be
(04:28):
the reason that anybody in myhouse got COVID and I couldn't
bear if I caused my familymembers to die.
I had a son who'simmunocompromised and I thought
that if I gave him COVID Icouldn't live that down.
So a combination of things.
And then, when it's time to getmental health, it was so
difficult.
I couldn't find anybody whotook my insurance.
I couldn't find anybody who hadopenings, and I'm a doctor, I'm
(04:49):
well-connected, and the onlyreason I was able to find
somebody eventually was.
I have a friend my bestfriend's husband is a
psychiatrist, and so they gavesome recommendations Once I got
myself together.
It was expensive, insurancedidn't cover it.
It was expensive and sure thingcover it, and I just felt bad
because how does anybody who'saveraged, how do they get
themselves taken care of?
(05:09):
And so I just wanted to be partof more the answer and the
solution than the problem, and Iknow that modern medicine
doesn't do as good of a job.
So now I work with the LornaBreen Foundation for Physician
Suicide Prevention and I'mactive with other mental health
groups.
I do physician coaching becauseI think physicians need support
, more support than people know,because one physician dies
(05:32):
every day, one every day.
I didn't even know that beforethis time.
So a whole medical school classworth of physicians will be
wiped out by the end of the yearBecause people just think we're
bulletproof.
And so that's how I ended upgetting into what I get into,
and now I've taken the time tolearn more about nutrition and
functional medicine and how ourbody can be best tuned up and
(05:54):
prevent in a prevention modeversus how to use a pill to make
it better I wish I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I think that's the.
That's the sad truth, right?
We talked a little pre-show.
You mentioned I know what youwent through and how you felt,
going through it more thanprobably the general public does
, and it's sad and you unpackeda lot in that.
There was a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Because it was a lot.
It was a lot and you know, Ihad to just realize it was a lot
.
We're not superhuman, we'rejust doctors.
It was a lot a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
My third.
I think it was the thirdepisode I ever did on this show,
or maybe it was the fourthepisode.
I coerced my wife to do a showwith me and talk about
healthcare as it relates tonurses, and I mean the audio
back then was atrocious.
But if you do have a chance togo, listen to that I recommend.
(06:59):
There's a lot of facts.
Just like you mentioned,healthcare and doctors, one
commits suicide every day.
It's the same with nurses andit's a lot of people in the
medical community and it'sthere's a lot of reasons why
mental health in that field isso bad.
And I think the best way toreally go about it is just to
(07:19):
bring light to what's going on,how you I mean how you guys are
treated, and first off,especially the ER department,
and really be like, like yousaid, you're everyone's human,
no one's like you're a doctor,you're not God.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So you need as much help, as everyone else does.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I need all the things that humans need.
You need food, water, shelterand you know I, when you're
working in the ER it's cold andflu season.
So I feel every bit of thisright now and sometimes it's
even triggering emotionallybecause, make no mistake, I had
to accept that going through thepandemic like war and there's
(07:59):
going to be some remnants ofPTSD and I recognize and have
tools now.
You know I get my mental healthstraight that some things are
triggering and I recognize andhave tools now.
You know I get my mental healthstraight that some things are
triggering and lately we're inCOVID season right now RSV2.
After the pandemic, because wewere all hunkering down, those
disease processes became worsethan they were before because
you let a bug be by itself andnot go to the human genome, then
(08:24):
it gets stronger and so we'reseeing stronger cases of
influenza now and stronger, morevirulent cases of respiratory
syncytial virus, which is RSVnow Used to be.
It's like a cold and you'll beall right, but now I'm seeing
more.
We need to hospitalize you,especially in young children and
the elderly, not even theelderly people over 55.
(08:45):
And so so it's triggering nowand I kind of had a moment last
week when every room was full,all the bells from the machines
were going off.
You know, the beeps aretriggering because the beeps
they give you that flatlinesound when someone dies, and so
those things can be triggeringand the alarms just have to use
(09:06):
tools and work through it.
And, unfortunately, the majorityof healthcare professionals, my
friends, my colleagues, wedon't take care of our mental
health.
We just think let's tough it up.
We're doctors, we're nurses.
This is how it goes.
It is the wrong way to be, andwe're in a crisis right now
where 68% one of the statisticsI checked that the 68% of
doctors feel burnt out, andthat's scary to me.
(09:29):
I'm a person, I need a doctor.
Sometimes I mean, I'm going toget older and I'll need to see a
doctor more regularly, so weneed to keep doctors and nurses
in practice.
The other thing is right now,during cold and flu seasons, we
don't have enough beds open, notbecause there aren't actual
physical beds, but becausethey're not nurses to help the
patients in those beds, and sowe're having a lot of patients
(09:52):
just stick around in the ER forabnormal amounts of time while
we're waiting for a hospital bed.
You know what, I know what itis for physicians.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I know what it is for nurses, but maybe you could
fill this stat in.
The average nurse lasts in thehospital three years.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That's crazy for all the time ago.
So it's different by differentprofessions.
So I'll tell you aboutemergency medicine.
So it used to be when I firststarted out and I graduated from
medical school in 2005,.
The average age of burnout foran emergency room physician was
10 years, and so now it's sevenand I've seen some young doctors
(10:30):
three years in saying you knowwhat?
No, I can't do this anymore.
All that training think about itIn school.
All that time, four years ofmedical school, four years of
college, four years of medicalschool and three to four years
minimum of residency Depends onif you go into another
(10:51):
subspecialty.
It could be seven or more years.
And now you're done with it andyou decide, yeah, no, I don't
want to do this anymore.
It must really be bad if youwould say I don't want to do
this anymore.
And then it's like you can makea decent living, but at what
cost?
And also the fact that peopleare walking away and a lot in
debt.
$300,000, $400,000 is how muchit costs to go to medical school
(11:17):
these days.
I know I graduated with aboutjust and I say just $180,000 in
Chump change.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, it's eye-opening.
I can talk about nurses andthis related all day and I'll
add in the physician side of it.
But you have to get abachelor's degree to be an RN.
In most states to work at ahospital that takes four years
of schooling.
Most of it's not paid for.
Then you go and you do it forthree years and you're making,
(11:49):
depending on the state, anywherefrom 50 to 90,000 a year and
you're done in three years toeither leave the profession
altogether, which most do, orjust try to switch out to
outpatient facility because it'sjust horrible.
I mean, I lived with my wifewho's 12, 12 and a half hour
shifts and she comes home andshe's like well, I got punched,
bit hit, like you're just likethat's a typical day, just going
(12:14):
on.
And then she I'm going to tellthe story, she's going to get
mad, but it's okay.
She was pregnant and she passedout on her floor and thank God
there was another nurse next toher who caught her, so she
didn't like get hurt and shecame to about two minutes later
sitting in a chair and her nursemanager said "'All right,
(12:36):
you're back awake now.
Can you go chart'?
Like you're six months pregnantand you pass out and your nurse
manager told you to get back towork and she called her uh ob,
and everybody's like go to theer.
Like exactly no, go to the er.
But that relates kind of todoctors and I know when I was
(13:01):
talking to my grandparents aboutthis I know it's not the same
anymore they did 24-hour shifts.
How can any human being do24-hour shifts?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No, sir, it's still the same.
So here's the deal.
Here's the deal.
When you're in residency, youdo 30-hour shifts, so you're on
call.
So in my residency you're oncall every three days, so every
third day is a 30-hour shift,meaning that you're at the
hospital on call that whole time.
Maybe, if you're lucky and youmay not be lucky, but maybe you
(13:33):
get lucky enough to get yourselfa two, three-hour nap right,
and then you go and you takecare of whatever it is you get
paid to take care of for you thehouse officer for the night.
So we still have that.
And I work in Missouri.
I'm just one hour outside of StLouis, and this ER does 24-hour
shifts.
So it's a small rural hospital.
(13:55):
It's very busy though, and itused to not be as busy before
COVID.
Something happened after theCOVID and I was busy 24 seven,
so it used to be the one doctorwas on call for 24 hours.
He or she would be busy all daylong, maybe until about eight
o'clock.
It slows down and you'reprobably going to sleep for a
few hours.
Maybe something comes in atfour or five in the morning.
(14:16):
So it wasn't as hazardous, youknow.
But now it's still 24 hourshifts and it can be that you're
up all night and that I havedone those 24 hour shifts.
I still, uh, could do those.
I lately told them I can onlysustain myself for 12 because I
did a 24.
I have a few more 24 hourshifts, but I've resigned to do
(14:36):
those after march because it'sbecoming too much, especially
now that cold and flu season ishere and we see that people just
hear it's all the way at two,three in the morning, then maybe
I lay down for an hour or twoand it's time to drive home.
I don't feel safe to drive homeso I might go somewhere else
and take another nap.
And so, yeah, it still exists.
(14:57):
People are still doing that andthat's why they expect you to
make a good decision.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Right, I know just personally'm awake for 20 hours.
I can't make good decisionsafter 20 hours, 23 hours a week.
It's not possible?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
yeah, it's.
It's not ideal.
I'll tell you that it's notideal, and unfortunately I don't
think that's hospitaladministration's care.
Their care is more, more.
So how can we get the spotfilled?
And I believe that's why a lotof people are leaving the
profession.
That's why when I speak atconferences or I speak in
(15:32):
workshop groups, I speak tohospitals about how to maintain
their staff.
To maintain your staff, you haveto do a couple of things.
First of all, to maintain yourstaff, you have to do a couple
of things.
First of all, realize they'rehuman and treat them like humans
, not pegs, not things to fill ahole.
And lastly, let's reconnectthem to purpose.
(15:54):
We all have purpose and mostpeople who decide they want to
help people for a living at somepoint in time had a good why
behind that.
There's a reason why, and Itell you, this profession will
beat that why out of you, but Ithink it's important to
reconnect to that why.
Because we need people like uswho care so much for others.
All we need to do on the backend is to care for the people
(16:16):
who are caring for others, andif we could get administration
to understand that, I know theycare so much about profits.
I know they care so much aboutprofits, but I'm trying to tell
you that you have to treat ahuman like a human, reconnect
them to purpose, and then you'llget your profits.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, they just lose that disconnect along the way
and I think a lot of it has todo with just the people on top
never really work to shift intheir lives or they don't even
come from that angle and worktheir way up.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think that would be beneficial, quite frankly, this
is why I think that physiciancoaches need to just be prolific
.
I think they just need to beeverywhere.
I never heard of it until I wasgoing through my own personal
mental health struggles.
I never even heard of it.
And there are studies that showthat health coaches, physician
health coaches, specifically aphysician who's coaching a
physician, is as beneficial as amental health professional, you
(17:08):
know, in treating thedepressive aspects of being a
doctor.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And I don't know the stats.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I don't know the stats, but I think it would
probably be similar for nurses,because I know that initially,
when I'm seeing my therapist andI'm explaining the things, that
going to the hospital, she'sgot her eyes, her eyebrows
furrowed, like wow, I feel veryjudged, like why are you
allowing this?
This is what it takes.
I mean, I'm not, I'm working a24 hour shift because this is my
job.
You do your job and I do my job.
(17:35):
You know, because therapiststypically see five patients, six
patients a day.
She's like you saw 40 patientsin one day.
Yeah, I did, and so I feel justdoing my job.
So when I was seeing a coach,she was like, yeah, I get it, I
get it all.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I mean, it's the same thing me finding your coaches I
can find a business coach, Ican find a gym coach.
They just understand andconnect more and that's why I
think it's so much morebeneficial to have someone that
did what you went through Likeyou talked about that human
connection component of it To me.
Before even owning a gym, Iworked every position at a gym.
I mean from scrubbing toilets,doing the cleaning side of it,
(18:15):
to the sales side of it, to thetraining side of it, to the
operations manager side of it,because I wanted to fully
understand those positions and Ifeel like now that's just lost
and maybe that's what makes me agood business owner is I
understand what like thehardships of some of the
positions and I can give themthe right tools to get over it.
(18:37):
But if you don't do that andyou just start at the top like
you lose all that and you justkind of start looking at numbers
as opposed to looking at people.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, I get that and you know, every time I have some
kind of health issue, whetherit be mental or physical, I have
so much more appreciation forwhat my patient experience is as
it relates to what the patientI'm treating is going through,
and I just believe God does thaton purpose to help me be a
better doctor.
I know we had the experience ofone of our healthcare
(19:07):
executives needing to have had aproblem and needed healthcare.
He was better for it because hewas like you guys do so much
and I think you know that'simportant to.
Maybe, if you haven't beenthrough that, try to remember a
family member or a friend who'sbeen through that and really
think about what do people whocare for you go through?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, and here's the million dollar example.
Tying this back to thebeginning of the show you talked
about how there's shirt nurses,right, that's why they don't
have enough beds in the hospital, beds in the hospital.
(19:49):
Why in God's name did they fireover 15% of them across the
board during COVID?
Like talk about people who havetrue disconnection from what
the struggles were.
Everyone was going through thestress everyone was going
through.
We're not talking right when ithappened, we're talking a year
after.
They just said all right, youdidn't get the shot, get out
Next day, don't come back towork.
(20:09):
You put a thorn into the sideof those nurses who most didn't
go back to the field.
They found new jobs outside ofit.
And to those that were planningon going into the field decided
not not to do it because of therestrictions, so you just took
a shortage and made it worse.
Because you're not looking atwhat's really going on it was.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
It was like tyranny right, and we should have
autonomy and choices.
And I and it was just socontentious at the time, like
get your shot, don't get yourshot became so political.
I think a better way.
And I always wondered why notdo it as a happy medium, because
this is not new.
The same is true of the flushot.
All hospitals give you amandate to get the flu shot and
(20:59):
their thought process is thatwe'll have less sick days, we'll
have a better patientpopulation, so on and so forth.
But if you don't get the flushot at the hospitals I've
worked in, you wear a mask.
So I'm like so let's just saythese nurses didn't want to, or
doctors didn't want to get theshot, then let's just give them
a mask.
Why do we have to fire them?
And now we're hurting so badly?
(21:20):
Because it takes a long time tomake a nurse.
And now you know administrationis bleeding money, because now
it's like a game, it's likehighest bidder, because many
nurses are coming from travelingagencies and then.
So then you, darren, have topay higher costs.
So what's going to happen issoon to be have to be like you
(21:42):
know, you think about 12 stepprogram, that the administration
of hospitals and have to makeamends with this workforce.
And I've seen how that can workbecause I like, why do I travel
an hour outside of my city towork?
Because at this little ruralhospital they know how to treat
people and I'm learning a lot oflessons for them and I put it
(22:03):
into the workshops that I do andI just kind of call it the
humanity framework.
You really have to know alittle bit about the people who
work with you and for you, andyou don't have to know a lot,
you don't have to know that lifestory, but a little bit.
In this place they takepainstaking efforts to remember
people's birthdays.
You know the little things too,like, for instance, I'm going
(22:23):
to health and wellness cake andso it was my birthday.
I was like, do not bring mecake.
They brought me fruit and someprotein bars.
Right, can you know that?
Because that's what they see meeating, because I'm like I'm
trying to eat to live.
I don't want to be thestatistic.
The average ER doctor lives to57.
That was one of the statistics.
There's so many varyingstatistics.
(22:43):
I read one that said 51.
Supposedly primary care doctorslive the longest.
But I don't want to die in my50s from this job, and I won't
die in my 50s from this job.
I take a beat back and I takecare of myself.
I'm taking care of the vesselthe one thing that God gave me
first, and then I'll give theworld what's left.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I know I just learned this.
Three years ago I was like, ohmy gosh, I don't think people
know and they teach us to die onour sword from the time you're
in residency, even medicalschool, we treat ourselves
horrible.
Trying to become a doctor, Iused to study 15 hours a day.
You don't see your family andfriends.
All the weddings, baby showers,everything I missed, you know.
(23:28):
People get to the point theydon't even ask anymore.
Oh, you can't come.
They just assume that you knowand it's not good for your
mental health.
I know there's a better way andwe're just.
You know we're doing it allwrong.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Oh yeah, I mean my wife's hospital, which I can
talk about now because sheofficially left.
But four sick days a yearthey're allowed or they get
fired.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And think about that.
How ludicrous is that.
You are around sick people allthe time, so you're going to get
sick.
We all have such strong, robustimmune systems because we're
around the bugs a lot.
But when we do get sick it's adoozy, because I went through
the whole pandemic, never gotsick.
I can't remember the last time Iwas sick, but this July I went
(24:13):
on a cruise with my family andwe turned up hardly any sleep
alcohol was involved and we cameback.
We partied like rock stars, wekicked it hard and as we're
flying back I remember vividlybecause it was when the Joe
Biden announcement came and theairlines had all these issues
and we were stuck at the airportfor like 10 hours and my son
(24:40):
said I got a headache.
And I said well, damn, he's gotCOVID.
I said we bought the all foullike dominoes as a family, but
Aruba was cool, what did y'all?
And yeah, we all got sick.
And then I was the last one Iwas at the.
Now it's like, nah, it'sallergies.
And then you know, black peopleshouldn't turn gray.
I started to turn a weird colorand my head hurt really bad.
But I was at work at this timeat the ER and the nurse manager
(25:02):
is like you need to go gettested.
At the old hospital I workedthey would have been like let's
give you an IV, let's tank youback up, get you back on the
floor.
This hospital was like.
I was like but there's nobodyto work.
She said we will figure it out.
That's what hospitals need todo.
Because I've been so abused andso used to it.
I was like no, I can't leave mymuscles hurt, my fever's high.
(25:24):
Give me an IV.
I could keep going and I stayhome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Like you said, if they really cared they would
treat you like that.
My wife was throwing up in thebathroom and they're like all
right, go back to work, you'renot puking what nope, and that's
why if you would treat nurseslike that, you'd have a bigger
pool.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
If you would treat doctors like that, you have a
bigger pool also.
Something that scared me is, inthe last two years, my one of
my er colleagues.
He died in the call room andanother one died off duty and
they were both in their 50s.
They weren't old people yet andI was like we got to take
better care of ourselves.
It's kind of the warning.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, and I think I just kind of tie everything
together just because it's goingback to the main topic of this
show and one of the things we'vetalked about the most, which is
you touched on it Doctorsthemselves don't learn proper
nutrition and properpreventative medicine, and I
know that I read the books.
(26:24):
As I told to Pam Prechel, myfamily wrote some of those books
, so I'm very aware of what'staught to the doctors.
But there's a lot like medicaltextbooks are huge and each
topic is specifically dividendto it.
So it's not their fault, it'snot your fault whatsoever.
There's a lot of informationyou need to learn.
But when patients or justclients, like we call them go
(26:48):
get advice about ABCDE from adoctor and then we're like no,
that's actually wrong, but it'sokay, we just try it this way.
No, you're wrong, they're adoctor.
And it's like yeah, they goodfor you.
Have you get shot?
Go to the ER, listen to thatdoctor, Do not listen to me.
You go, you get COVID.
Goes to the doctor, Don'tlisten to me.
But if you want to learnnutrition, I got you as a good
(27:12):
example.
Do you have anything to like?
Because you learned it?
You went through all of it.
What do you think of me sayingsomething like that, and do you
agree or disagree?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think you, and it won't be popular, but I think
that you probably do know a lotmore nutrition than most doctors
.
The only way a doctor learnsabout nutrition is if he or she
takes the time to go learn itthemselves.
And I've just taken it uponmyself to learn it because I
want to know what foods are goodfor prevention, like I know
that berries are goodantioxidants, you know, and so
(27:44):
eating berries can help preventcancer, things like that.
Some foods are high in fiberand some.
You know the different vitaminsA you don't receive better.
You can eat certain things.
You want more potassium.
You eat sweet potatoes.
You don't learn these things inschool.
You get little flares, glimpses, but I really wish they would
(28:04):
incorporate some of the wellnessinto the traditional medical
education.
It makes me somewhat cynicallike, oh, this really is a
holistic thing.
When I went into it to takecare of people, money comes.
It's not why I went intomedicine.
There's better ways.
If you want to get rich, youwant to be a doctor.
You should have a heart for thepeople, a heart to heal, a
(28:27):
heart to keep people well, and Ithink it's more important to
stay well, so you don't have toget well than it is to treat
sickness.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
And then here's the conspiracy question.
You think?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
it's intentional.
Yes, I do.
I started thinking that not toolong ago.
Think about it when I firststarted out, there was like a
few diabetes drugs.
You know you had metformin andglipizide, some actos and then
insulin.
Now there are so many, likethey knew everybody was going to
become severely obese.
So much visceral fat around theabdomen leads to type two
(29:04):
diabetes.
The majority of the diabetesthat we have in America can be
reversed and it used to be thatthe American Diabetes
Association.
The recommendations were when,soon as someone's a newly
diabetic, you counsel them, youdon't do anything.
You don't give them anymedicines.
You counsel them on diet andexercise.
You say, hey, we can reversethis if you lose weight.
(29:24):
And here's what you do Watchyour carbs eat more protein.
And that's what we do.
That's what when I first becamea doctor Now doctors I remember
when the recommendation changedto just metformin.
Let's just give you medicine.
And that's a shame becausethat's just saying we don't have
(29:45):
any faith in the people.
But on the flip side, ourdoctor's visit is how long?
It's 15 minutes, and if youhave a physical maybe they give
you 30 minutes.
And in that short amount oftime, does this person have
enough time to go into thisdetail with you.
He or she cannot educate you,and that is the missing piece.
We need to give people personalresponsibility, because people
you, me and everyone else we'reresponsible for our own body.
(30:08):
Nobody else is responsible.
I remember having patients whoI felt like they thought I was
responsible for them to staywell and kind of.
The hospital makes thatassumption too, because when
you're in primary care andprivate practice, you get paid
based on how well your patientpopulation is doing.
I cannot be there to take thecinnamon roll out of your mouth.
I can, I can tell you, but Ionly have 15 minutes to educate
(30:31):
you.
The whole paradigm isimpossible.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean, I've been nodding my head, yes, the
entire time.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
For those not watching the video, I think it,
too, comes down to people notreally knowing what they were
made for, kind of like thatBillie Eilish song just people
just aimlessly bopping about,not operating in purpose, and
purpose is the best of what youhave to give to others.
And just going through thewhole process and figuring out
(31:03):
what your purpose is I believegives so much clarity so that
you can do things like be happyin your career, decide that you
want to take care of your bodyand operate in more prevention,
not eat yourself to death whenyou really know who you are and
know what you were made for.
And that's a big part of what Ido.
That's like the first part I dowhen I'm working with someone.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Having purpose and havingintention in the things you do
makes everything moreintentional, even down to what
you put in your mouth down towhat you put in your mouth, Like
a good here's good psychologyfor you, ready For nutrition.
One of the biggest things is nottelling people like eat A, b, c
(31:44):
, d, e.
It's actually playing a littlebit of a psychology trick on
people which is hey, I want youto wake up in the morning and
take vitamin whatever at 8 am,and then 12 pm I want you to
take this supplement, and thenat 4 pm I want you to take this
supplement.
And we tell people hey, thissupplement's going to help with
(32:07):
this, this supplement's going tohelp with this, even if that
doesn't, or even if it playsonly a minor role in it.
What actually happens isastonishing.
When you get people you have totake this pill or you have to
take this supplement, with whatthey end up doing after that is
now intentional.
So now they're intentionallytaking a supplement, so now
they're going to intentionallyeat the right foods.
So if you don't even teach themhow to eat right and you just
(32:30):
said take ABC, they're going toeat healthier than somebody you
sit down with and dive throughabout why you should be doing
abc, because now it becomespurposeful to them about hey, I
need to eat.
Like this.
It's absolutely astonishing,like how the human mind works
and how people like just operateoff of that.
But it makes sense.
It's.
Having adding attention toeverything in life will bring
(32:52):
attention to everything in yourlife everything is a a
psychology hack and habits, youknow, have to be trained.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You know you don't wake up one day and say I prefer
kale.
It's all intentionality andthat you have to have a lot.
I don't love kale either, Idon't, but I know that it does
some things for me, so I'll haveit sometimes.
That's why I take it.
But I know that it does somethings for me, and so I'll have
it sometimes.
That's why I take it.
I don't love it, make nomistake.
I don't know.
I'm saying God, why do you makethat taste like that?
(33:22):
And it has 30 minutes?
But yeah, so I have to get alot of dark green vegetables.
I am lactose intolerant and youneed your vitamin D, your
calcium.
You can get that from darkgreen vegetables, which is why
milk has it in it, but I can'tdrink milk, and so that's why I
eat things like kale and a lotof spinach and greens.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and just to kind of start wrapping this up,
my favorite sub-emotion whichdoes actually work is creatine.
You talked about depression.
There's tons of studies comingout right now showing creatine
actually helps curve depressionand helps with mental health.
So I mean, talk about asupplement that it's so easy to
add to your diet and helps withso many things.
(34:10):
But every time I'm telling aclient who's like 50 plus to
take it, they eye roll at me orthey say my doctor said I
shouldn't be taking this.
I'm like this is one of thehealthiest things you can take
and has absolutely no sideeffects.
So please, please, take it,please, god, whatever.
So listen to the show.
If you have depression,recommend it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And the activity of just exercise.
Is well documented thatcardiovascular exercise
decreases depression and anxiety.
Well documented, um you know.
And most people can takecreatine, except for those who
have kidney problems.
If you don't have a kidneyproblem, you can take it okay,
go for it.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Or even better, you want to actually produce more
creatine, sleep better.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's one of the most under-thought about health
issues.
Sleep, because sleep isrestorative.
Sleep is good for your memory.
It's good for restoration ofmuscles when you're working out
hard.
Get you for eight hours.
It's the number one thing thatyou can do.
Sleep for eight hours and drinkenough water.
You're 66% water, so sleep andwater, not Dr Pepper, not juices
(35:19):
, water From the ocean.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I love it.
We really unwrapped a lot inthere and I hope people
thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
It was a lot tied in, so I'mgoing to ask the final two
questions.
I asked everyone the first oneif you were to summarize this
episode in one or two sentenceswhat would be your take-home
message?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
My take-home message is definitely connect to your
purpose and your why for doinganything, and know that we need
to support healthcare workers,those people who take care of
you.
Remember to take care of them.
Be kind, be understanding whenyou're in the doctor's office,
in the emergency room.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I couldn't agree more .
The second question how canpeople find you, get a hold of
you and learn more?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You can text STRONG to 55444 or get me at
drbstrongcom.
I do a newsletter and you cansign up.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Absolutely, pam.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you, guys, for listeningto this week's episode of health
and fitness redefined.
Don't forget, hit, subscribe,share the show with a friend.
It's the only way we grow.
And don't forget fitness ismedicine.
Until next time, thank you.
(36:42):
Outro Music.
Hello and welcome to Help the Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen,and today we have another great
episode for all of you today, sowithout further ado, let's dive
into it.
Welcome, pam.
It's a pleasure to have you ontoday.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, hi, thanks for having me on.
I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
All the way from Missouri.
So nice central US state, loveit.
Pam, tell us a little bit abouthow you got into the health and
fitness world and what made youwant to come on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, I've wanted to be a doctor since I was 12.
And so I did become one.
My pediatrician was really cooland I've been a physician for
the last 20 years, currentlyworking in an emergency room.
And then I kind of went on ajourney a few years ago,
realizing that, you know, theway I was trained as a physician
focuses on taking care of sickpeople, and I wanted to know how
(00:57):
to keep people well, especiallyafter the pandemic.
I was thinking how can we domore service by teaching people
how to prevent disease versusreactively, more proactively?
And during the pandemic I wasworking all the time.
I became unhealthy myself,gained a lot of weight and
stressed out to the point that Iwas more than burnt out.
(01:18):
I felt like I just didn't wantto be here anymore and I
realized it wasn't just onething, it was several things.
Of course it was because I'm anemergency room doctor and I was
working during a pandemic, so Iwas thinking that was the thing
.
But that was really not it.
I wasn't taking good care ofmyself, I wasn't getting any
rest, I wasn't doing anyself-care and I wasn't taking
care of my mental and physicalhealth, and so once I got a hold
(01:40):
of that.
It was a journey and I thinkthat the universe has you go
through things so you can be abetter servant.
So I learned how to be a betterdoctor and realized I needed to
teach more people how to take astep back, slow down, focus on
what your purpose is, focus onyour mental health, take care of
your body, and so I operatemore in doing that.
(02:02):
Now I have backed away fromdoing the er as much I do
speaking and coaching now,because I think we need to do
more preventative medicine yeah,I mean I really couldn't agree
more with that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
he's mentioned that you got you felt burnout and
stress and all that during thecovert time in the er, and I
think that's a good place tostart for us.
Walk me through a little bitabout one how overwhelmed you
were and then two tie it intowhy were people so rushed coming
into the hospital?
(02:36):
Why did it get so overwhelming?
Why did you experience howoverwhelmed you were?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Walk us through that the overwhelm was in the sheer
numbers.
I mean, you know, it was thepercentage of doctors versus the
whole world.
And everyone was so afraid.
I get that, and you know,information was coming in at the
speed of light.
A lot of it was misinformation,Some of it we could take, and
(03:02):
then, let's be honest, ourofficials just didn't know and
as doctors on the field, we wereusing our brains and making it
up as we go.
We took some of what thoughtshe said and some of them were
like man, I don't know.
And so that's that's how wewere.
That's how I was practiced bythe seat of my pants.
It was exhausting and you know,not only do you have to practice
medicine, you're also atherapist, you're comforting
(03:24):
people and we couldn't let somepatients in.
You're with people in theirfinal moments and it's like
being at war.
You didn't think about thesheer magnitude of what you were
doing.
All you could think of is theworld needed us and people were
banging pots.
People were sending us food,all crap food.
I realize that now weappreciated it, but pizza, and
(03:46):
that no wonder I felt sluggishwhile I was working.
But during that time we wereall trying to hold together.
I never got sick.
I never got COVID the wholetime.
So I ended up working a lotmore than my other colleagues.
Some of my colleagues succumbedto COVID.
One got really sick and he wasin ICU.
He still uses oxygen, so he'snot working anymore, he's
permanently disabled.
(04:07):
One of my colleagues at adifferent hospital committed
suicide and that was a pointwhere I was like I need to take
care of myself, I need toreassess, because I knew I was
feeling some kind of way and Iwas just trying to work my way
through it, like just take moreshifts, stay busy, stay busy.
And I also wasn't able to seemy family.
I was terrified to see them.
Really I was trying to avoidthem because I didn't want to be
(04:28):
the reason that anybody in myhouse got COVID and I couldn't
bear if I caused my familymembers to die.
I had a son who'simmunocompromised and I thought
that if I gave him COVID Icouldn't live that down.
So a combination of things.
And then, when it's time to getmental health, it was so
difficult.
I couldn't find anybody whotook my insurance.
I couldn't find anybody who hadopenings, and I'm a doctor, I'm
(04:49):
well-connected, and the onlyreason I was able to find
somebody eventually was.
I have a friend my bestfriend's husband is a
psychiatrist, and so they gavesome recommendations Once I got
myself together.
It was expensive, insurancedidn't cover it.
It was expensive and sure thingcover it, and I just felt bad
because how does anybody who'saveraged, how do they get
themselves taken care of?
(05:09):
And so I just wanted to be partof more the answer and the
solution than the problem, and Iknow that modern medicine
doesn't do as good of a job.
So now I work with the LornaBreen Foundation for Physician
Suicide Prevention and I'mactive with other mental health
groups.
I do physician coaching becauseI think physicians need support
, more support than people know,because one physician dies
(05:32):
every day, one every day.
I didn't even know that beforethis time.
So a whole medical school classworth of physicians will be
wiped out by the end of the yearBecause people just think we're
bulletproof.
And so that's how I ended upgetting into what I get into,
and now I've taken the time tolearn more about nutrition and
functional medicine and how ourbody can be best tuned up and
(05:54):
prevent in a prevention modeversus how to use a pill to make
it better I wish I was shocked.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I think that's the.
That's the sad truth, right?
We talked a little pre-show.
You mentioned I know what youwent through and how you felt,
going through it more thanprobably the general public does
, and it's sad and you unpackeda lot in that.
There was a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Because it was a lot.
It was a lot and you know, Ihad to just realize it was a lot
.
We're not superhuman, we'rejust doctors.
It was a lot a lot.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
My third.
I think it was the thirdepisode I ever did on this show,
or maybe it was the fourthepisode.
I coerced my wife to do a showwith me and talk about
healthcare as it relates tonurses, and I mean the audio
back then was atrocious.
But if you do have a chance togo, listen to that I recommend.
(06:59):
There's a lot of facts.
Just like you mentioned,healthcare and doctors, one
commits suicide every day.
It's the same with nurses andit's a lot of people in the
medical community and it'sthere's a lot of reasons why
mental health in that field isso bad.
And I think the best way toreally go about it is just to
(07:19):
bring light to what's going on,how you I mean how you guys are
treated, and first off,especially the ER department,
and really be like, like yousaid, you're everyone's human,
no one's like you're a doctor,you're not God.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
So you need as much help, as everyone else does.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I need all the things that humans need.
You need food, water, shelterand you know I, when you're
working in the ER it's cold andflu season.
So I feel every bit of thisright now and sometimes it's
even triggering emotionallybecause, make no mistake, I had
to accept that going through thepandemic like war and there's
(07:59):
going to be some remnants ofPTSD and I recognize and have
tools now.
You know I get my mental healthstraight that some things are
triggering and I recognize andhave tools now.
You know I get my mental healthstraight that some things are
triggering and lately we're inCOVID season right now RSV2.
After the pandemic, because wewere all hunkering down, those
disease processes became worsethan they were before because
you let a bug be by itself andnot go to the human genome, then
(08:24):
it gets stronger and so we'reseeing stronger cases of
influenza now and stronger, morevirulent cases of respiratory
syncytial virus, which is RSVnow Used to be.
It's like a cold and you'll beall right, but now I'm seeing
more.
We need to hospitalize you,especially in young children and
the elderly, not even theelderly people over 55.
(08:45):
And so so it's triggering nowand I kind of had a moment last
week when every room was full,all the bells from the machines
were going off.
You know, the beeps aretriggering because the beeps
they give you that flatlinesound when someone dies, and so
those things can be triggeringand the alarms just have to use
(09:06):
tools and work through it.
And, unfortunately, the majorityof healthcare professionals, my
friends, my colleagues, wedon't take care of our mental
health.
We just think let's tough it up.
We're doctors, we're nurses.
This is how it goes.
It is the wrong way to be, andwe're in a crisis right now
where 68% one of the statisticsI checked that the 68% of
doctors feel burnt out, andthat's scary to me.
(09:29):
I'm a person, I need a doctor.
Sometimes I mean, I'm going toget older and I'll need to see a
doctor more regularly, so weneed to keep doctors and nurses
in practice.
The other thing is right now,during cold and flu seasons, we
don't have enough beds open, notbecause there aren't actual
physical beds, but becausethey're not nurses to help the
patients in those beds, and sowe're having a lot of patients
(09:52):
just stick around in the ER forabnormal amounts of time while
we're waiting for a hospital bed.
You know what, I know what itis for physicians.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I know what it is for nurses, but maybe you could
fill this stat in.
The average nurse lasts in thehospital three years.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That's crazy for all the time ago.
So it's different by differentprofessions.
So I'll tell you aboutemergency medicine.
So it used to be when I firststarted out and I graduated from
medical school in 2005,.
The average age of burnout foran emergency room physician was
10 years, and so now it's sevenand I've seen some young doctors
(10:30):
three years in saying you knowwhat?
No, I can't do this anymore.
All that training think about itIn school.
All that time, four years ofmedical school, four years of
college, four years of medicalschool and three to four years
minimum of residency Depends onif you go into another
(10:51):
subspecialty.
It could be seven or more years.
And now you're done with it andyou decide, yeah, no, I don't
want to do this anymore.
It must really be bad if youwould say I don't want to do
this anymore.
And then it's like you can makea decent living, but at what
cost?
And also the fact that peopleare walking away and a lot in
debt.
$300,000, $400,000 is how muchit costs to go to medical school
(11:17):
these days.
I know I graduated with aboutjust and I say just $180,000 in
Chump change.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah, it's eye-opening.
I can talk about nurses andthis related all day and I'll
add in the physician side of it.
But you have to get abachelor's degree to be an RN.
In most states to work at ahospital that takes four years
of schooling.
Most of it's not paid for.
Then you go and you do it forthree years and you're making,
(11:49):
depending on the state, anywherefrom 50 to 90,000 a year and
you're done in three years toeither leave the profession
altogether, which most do, orjust try to switch out to
outpatient facility because it'sjust horrible.
I mean, I lived with my wifewho's 12, 12 and a half hour
shifts and she comes home andshe's like well, I got punched,
bit hit, like you're just likethat's a typical day, just going
(12:14):
on.
And then she I'm going to tellthe story, she's going to get
mad, but it's okay.
She was pregnant and she passedout on her floor and thank God
there was another nurse next toher who caught her, so she
didn't like get hurt and shecame to about two minutes later
sitting in a chair and her nursemanager said "'All right,
(12:36):
you're back awake now.
Can you go chart'?
Like you're six months pregnantand you pass out and your nurse
manager told you to get back towork and she called her uh ob,
and everybody's like go to theer.
Like exactly no, go to the er.
But that relates kind of todoctors and I know when I was
(13:01):
talking to my grandparents aboutthis I know it's not the same
anymore they did 24-hour shifts.
How can any human being do24-hour shifts?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No, sir, it's still the same.
So here's the deal.
Here's the deal.
When you're in residency, youdo 30-hour shifts, so you're on
call.
So in my residency you're oncall every three days, so every
third day is a 30-hour shift,meaning that you're at the
hospital on call that whole time.
Maybe, if you're lucky and youmay not be lucky, but maybe you
(13:33):
get lucky enough to get yourselfa two, three-hour nap right,
and then you go and you takecare of whatever it is you get
paid to take care of for you thehouse officer for the night.
So we still have that.
And I work in Missouri.
I'm just one hour outside of StLouis, and this ER does 24-hour
shifts.
So it's a small rural hospital.
(13:55):
It's very busy though, and itused to not be as busy before
COVID.
Something happened after theCOVID and I was busy 24 seven,
so it used to be the one doctorwas on call for 24 hours.
He or she would be busy all daylong, maybe until about eight
o'clock.
It slows down and you'reprobably going to sleep for a
few hours.
Maybe something comes in atfour or five in the morning.
(14:16):
So it wasn't as hazardous, youknow.
But now it's still 24 hourshifts and it can be that you're
up all night and that I havedone those 24 hour shifts.
I still, uh, could do those.
I lately told them I can onlysustain myself for 12 because I
did a 24.
I have a few more 24 hourshifts, but I've resigned to do
(14:36):
those after march because it'sbecoming too much, especially
now that cold and flu season ishere and we see that people just
hear it's all the way at two,three in the morning, then maybe
I lay down for an hour or twoand it's time to drive home.
I don't feel safe to drive homeso I might go somewhere else
and take another nap.
And so, yeah, it still exists.
(14:57):
People are still doing that andthat's why they expect you to
make a good decision.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Right, I know just personally'm awake for 20 hours.
I can't make good decisionsafter 20 hours, 23 hours a week.
It's not possible?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
yeah, it's.
It's not ideal.
I'll tell you that it's notideal, and unfortunately I don't
think that's hospitaladministration's care.
Their care is more, more.
So how can we get the spotfilled?
And I believe that's why a lotof people are leaving the
profession.
That's why when I speak atconferences or I speak in
(15:32):
workshop groups, I speak tohospitals about how to maintain
their staff.
To maintain your staff, you haveto do a couple of things.
First of all, to maintain yourstaff, you have to do a couple
of things.
First of all, realize they'rehuman and treat them like humans
, not pegs, not things to fill ahole.
And lastly, let's reconnectthem to purpose.
(15:54):
We all have purpose and mostpeople who decide they want to
help people for a living at somepoint in time had a good why
behind that.
There's a reason why, and Itell you, this profession will
beat that why out of you, but Ithink it's important to
reconnect to that why.
Because we need people like uswho care so much for others.
All we need to do on the backend is to care for the people
(16:16):
who are caring for others, andif we could get administration
to understand that, I know theycare so much about profits.
I know they care so much aboutprofits, but I'm trying to tell
you that you have to treat ahuman like a human, reconnect
them to purpose, and then you'llget your profits.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, they just lose that disconnect along the way
and I think a lot of it has todo with just the people on top
never really work to shift intheir lives or they don't even
come from that angle and worktheir way up.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I think that would be beneficial, quite frankly, this
is why I think that physiciancoaches need to just be prolific
.
I think they just need to beeverywhere.
I never heard of it until I wasgoing through my own personal
mental health struggles.
I never even heard of it.
And there are studies that showthat health coaches, physician
health coaches, specifically aphysician who's coaching a
physician, is as beneficial as amental health professional, you
(17:08):
know, in treating thedepressive aspects of being a
doctor.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And I don't know the stats.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I don't know the stats, but I think it would
probably be similar for nurses,because I know that initially,
when I'm seeing my therapist andI'm explaining the things, that
going to the hospital, she'sgot her eyes, her eyebrows
furrowed, like wow, I feel veryjudged, like why are you
allowing this?
This is what it takes.
I mean, I'm not, I'm working a24 hour shift because this is my
job.
You do your job and I do my job.
(17:35):
You know, because therapiststypically see five patients, six
patients a day.
She's like you saw 40 patientsin one day.
Yeah, I did, and so I feel justdoing my job.
So when I was seeing a coach,she was like, yeah, I get it, I
get it all.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I mean, it's the same thing me finding your coaches I
can find a business coach, Ican find a gym coach.
They just understand andconnect more and that's why I
think it's so much morebeneficial to have someone that
did what you went through Likeyou talked about that human
connection component of it To me.
Before even owning a gym, Iworked every position at a gym.
I mean from scrubbing toilets,doing the cleaning side of it,
(18:15):
to the sales side of it, to thetraining side of it, to the
operations manager side of it,because I wanted to fully
understand those positions and Ifeel like now that's just lost
and maybe that's what makes me agood business owner is I
understand what like thehardships of some of the
positions and I can give themthe right tools to get over it.
(18:37):
But if you don't do that andyou just start at the top like
you lose all that and you justkind of start looking at numbers
as opposed to looking at people.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, I get that and you know, every time I have some
kind of health issue, whetherit be mental or physical, I have
so much more appreciation forwhat my patient experience is as
it relates to what the patientI'm treating is going through,
and I just believe God does thaton purpose to help me be a
better doctor.
I know we had the experience ofone of our healthcare
(19:07):
executives needing to have had aproblem and needed healthcare.
He was better for it because hewas like you guys do so much
and I think you know that'simportant to.
Maybe, if you haven't beenthrough that, try to remember a
family member or a friend who'sbeen through that and really
think about what do people whocare for you go through?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, and here's the million dollar example.
Tying this back to thebeginning of the show you talked
about how there's shirt nurses,right, that's why they don't
have enough beds in the hospital, beds in the hospital.
(19:49):
Why in God's name did they fireover 15% of them across the
board during COVID?
Like talk about people who havetrue disconnection from what
the struggles were.
Everyone was going through thestress everyone was going
through.
We're not talking right when ithappened, we're talking a year
after.
They just said all right, youdidn't get the shot, get out
Next day, don't come back towork.
(20:09):
You put a thorn into the sideof those nurses who most didn't
go back to the field.
They found new jobs outside ofit.
And to those that were planningon going into the field decided
not not to do it because of therestrictions, so you just took
a shortage and made it worse.
Because you're not looking atwhat's really going on it was.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
It was like tyranny right, and we should have
autonomy and choices.
And I and it was just socontentious at the time, like
get your shot, don't get yourshot became so political.
I think a better way.
And I always wondered why notdo it as a happy medium, because
this is not new.
The same is true of the flushot.
All hospitals give you amandate to get the flu shot and
(20:59):
their thought process is thatwe'll have less sick days, we'll
have a better patientpopulation, so on and so forth.
But if you don't get the flushot at the hospitals I've
worked in, you wear a mask.
So I'm like so let's just saythese nurses didn't want to, or
doctors didn't want to get theshot, then let's just give them
a mask.
Why do we have to fire them?
And now we're hurting so badly?
(21:20):
Because it takes a long time tomake a nurse.
And now you know administrationis bleeding money, because now
it's like a game, it's likehighest bidder, because many
nurses are coming from travelingagencies and then.
So then you, darren, have topay higher costs.
So what's going to happen issoon to be have to be like you
(21:42):
know, you think about 12 stepprogram, that the administration
of hospitals and have to makeamends with this workforce.
And I've seen how that can workbecause I like, why do I travel
an hour outside of my city towork?
Because at this little ruralhospital they know how to treat
people and I'm learning a lot oflessons for them and I put it
(22:03):
into the workshops that I do andI just kind of call it the
humanity framework.
You really have to know alittle bit about the people who
work with you and for you, andyou don't have to know a lot,
you don't have to know that lifestory, but a little bit.
In this place they takepainstaking efforts to remember
people's birthdays.
You know the little things too,like, for instance, I'm going
(22:23):
to health and wellness cake andso it was my birthday.
I was like, do not bring mecake.
They brought me fruit and someprotein bars.
Right, can you know that?
Because that's what they see meeating, because I'm like I'm
trying to eat to live.
I don't want to be thestatistic.
The average ER doctor lives to57.
That was one of the statistics.
There's so many varyingstatistics.
(22:43):
I read one that said 51.
Supposedly primary care doctorslive the longest.
But I don't want to die in my50s from this job, and I won't
die in my 50s from this job.
I take a beat back and I takecare of myself.
I'm taking care of the vesselthe one thing that God gave me
first, and then I'll give theworld what's left.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I know I just learned this.
Three years ago I was like, ohmy gosh, I don't think people
know and they teach us to die onour sword from the time you're
in residency, even medicalschool, we treat ourselves
horrible.
Trying to become a doctor, Iused to study 15 hours a day.
You don't see your family andfriends.
All the weddings, baby showers,everything I missed, you know.
(23:28):
People get to the point theydon't even ask anymore.
Oh, you can't come.
They just assume that you knowand it's not good for your
mental health.
I know there's a better way andwe're just.
You know we're doing it allwrong.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Oh yeah, I mean my wife's hospital, which I can
talk about now because sheofficially left.
But four sick days a yearthey're allowed or they get
fired.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
And think about that.
How ludicrous is that.
You are around sick people allthe time, so you're going to get
sick.
We all have such strong, robustimmune systems because we're
around the bugs a lot.
But when we do get sick it's adoozy, because I went through
the whole pandemic, never gotsick.
I can't remember the last time Iwas sick, but this July I went
(24:13):
on a cruise with my family andwe turned up hardly any sleep
alcohol was involved and we cameback.
We partied like rock stars, wekicked it hard and as we're
flying back I remember vividlybecause it was when the Joe
Biden announcement came and theairlines had all these issues
and we were stuck at the airportfor like 10 hours and my son
(24:40):
said I got a headache.
And I said well, damn, he's gotCOVID.
I said we bought the all foullike dominoes as a family, but
Aruba was cool, what did y'all?
And yeah, we all got sick.
And then I was the last one Iwas at the.
Now it's like, nah, it'sallergies.
And then you know, black peopleshouldn't turn gray.
I started to turn a weird colorand my head hurt really bad.
But I was at work at this timeat the ER and the nurse manager
(25:02):
is like you need to go gettested.
At the old hospital I workedthey would have been like let's
give you an IV, let's tank youback up, get you back on the
floor.
This hospital was like.
I was like but there's nobodyto work.
She said we will figure it out.
That's what hospitals need todo.
Because I've been so abused andso used to it.
I was like no, I can't leave mymuscles hurt, my fever's high.
(25:24):
Give me an IV.
I could keep going and I stayhome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Like you said, if they really cared they would
treat you like that.
My wife was throwing up in thebathroom and they're like all
right, go back to work, you'renot puking what nope, and that's
why if you would treat nurseslike that, you'd have a bigger
pool.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
If you would treat doctors like that, you have a
bigger pool also.
Something that scared me is, inthe last two years, my one of
my er colleagues.
He died in the call room andanother one died off duty and
they were both in their 50s.
They weren't old people yet andI was like we got to take
better care of ourselves.
It's kind of the warning.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Yeah, and I think I just kind of tie everything
together just because it's goingback to the main topic of this
show and one of the things we'vetalked about the most, which is
you touched on it Doctorsthemselves don't learn proper
nutrition and properpreventative medicine, and I
know that I read the books.
(26:24):
As I told to Pam Prechel, myfamily wrote some of those books
, so I'm very aware of what'staught to the doctors.
But there's a lot like medicaltextbooks are huge and each
topic is specifically dividendto it.
So it's not their fault, it'snot your fault whatsoever.
There's a lot of informationyou need to learn.
But when patients or justclients, like we call them go
(26:48):
get advice about ABCDE from adoctor and then we're like no,
that's actually wrong, but it'sokay, we just try it this way.
No, you're wrong, they're adoctor.
And it's like yeah, they goodfor you.
Have you get shot?
Go to the ER, listen to thatdoctor, Do not listen to me.
You go, you get COVID.
Goes to the doctor, Don'tlisten to me.
But if you want to learnnutrition, I got you as a good
(27:12):
example.
Do you have anything to like?
Because you learned it?
You went through all of it.
What do you think of me sayingsomething like that, and do you
agree or disagree?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think you, and it won't be popular, but I think
that you probably do know a lotmore nutrition than most doctors
.
The only way a doctor learnsabout nutrition is if he or she
takes the time to go learn itthemselves.
And I've just taken it uponmyself to learn it because I
want to know what foods are goodfor prevention, like I know
that berries are goodantioxidants, you know, and so
(27:44):
eating berries can help preventcancer, things like that.
Some foods are high in fiberand some.
You know the different vitaminsA you don't receive better.
You can eat certain things.
You want more potassium.
You eat sweet potatoes.
You don't learn these things inschool.
You get little flares, glimpses, but I really wish they would
(28:04):
incorporate some of the wellnessinto the traditional medical
education.
It makes me somewhat cynicallike, oh, this really is a
holistic thing.
When I went into it to takecare of people, money comes.
It's not why I went intomedicine.
There's better ways.
If you want to get rich, youwant to be a doctor.
You should have a heart for thepeople, a heart to heal, a
(28:27):
heart to keep people well, and Ithink it's more important to
stay well, so you don't have toget well than it is to treat
sickness.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
And then here's the conspiracy question.
You think?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
it's intentional.
Yes, I do.
I started thinking that not toolong ago.
Think about it when I firststarted out, there was like a
few diabetes drugs.
You know you had metformin andglipizide, some actos and then
insulin.
Now there are so many, likethey knew everybody was going to
become severely obese.
So much visceral fat around theabdomen leads to type two
(29:04):
diabetes.
The majority of the diabetesthat we have in America can be
reversed and it used to be thatthe American Diabetes
Association.
The recommendations were when,soon as someone's a newly
diabetic, you counsel them, youdon't do anything.
You don't give them anymedicines.
You counsel them on diet andexercise.
You say, hey, we can reversethis if you lose weight.
(29:24):
And here's what you do Watchyour carbs eat more protein.
And that's what we do.
That's what when I first becamea doctor Now doctors I remember
when the recommendation changedto just metformin.
Let's just give you medicine.
And that's a shame becausethat's just saying we don't have
(29:45):
any faith in the people.
But on the flip side, ourdoctor's visit is how long?
It's 15 minutes, and if youhave a physical maybe they give
you 30 minutes.
And in that short amount oftime, does this person have
enough time to go into thisdetail with you.
He or she cannot educate you,and that is the missing piece.
We need to give people personalresponsibility, because people
you, me and everyone else we'reresponsible for our own body.
(30:08):
Nobody else is responsible.
I remember having patients whoI felt like they thought I was
responsible for them to staywell and kind of.
The hospital makes thatassumption too, because when
you're in primary care andprivate practice, you get paid
based on how well your patientpopulation is doing.
I cannot be there to take thecinnamon roll out of your mouth.
I can, I can tell you, but Ionly have 15 minutes to educate
(30:31):
you.
The whole paradigm isimpossible.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean, I've been nodding my head, yes, the
entire time.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
For those not watching the video, I think it,
too, comes down to people notreally knowing what they were
made for, kind of like thatBillie Eilish song just people
just aimlessly bopping about,not operating in purpose, and
purpose is the best of what youhave to give to others.
And just going through thewhole process and figuring out
(31:03):
what your purpose is I believegives so much clarity so that
you can do things like be happyin your career, decide that you
want to take care of your bodyand operate in more prevention,
not eat yourself to death whenyou really know who you are and
know what you were made for.
And that's a big part of what Ido.
That's like the first part I dowhen I'm working with someone.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, I totally agree .
Having purpose and havingintention in the things you do
makes everything moreintentional, even down to what
you put in your mouth down towhat you put in your mouth, Like
a good here's good psychologyfor you, ready For nutrition.
One of the biggest things is nottelling people like eat A, b, c
(31:44):
, d, e.
It's actually playing a littlebit of a psychology trick on
people which is hey, I want youto wake up in the morning and
take vitamin whatever at 8 am,and then 12 pm I want you to
take this supplement, and thenat 4 pm I want you to take this
supplement.
And we tell people hey, thissupplement's going to help with
(32:07):
this, this supplement's going tohelp with this, even if that
doesn't, or even if it playsonly a minor role in it.
What actually happens isastonishing.
When you get people you have totake this pill or you have to
take this supplement, with whatthey end up doing after that is
now intentional.
So now they're intentionallytaking a supplement, so now
they're going to intentionallyeat the right foods.
So if you don't even teach themhow to eat right and you just
(32:30):
said take ABC, they're going toeat healthier than somebody you
sit down with and dive throughabout why you should be doing
abc, because now it becomespurposeful to them about hey, I
need to eat.
Like this.
It's absolutely astonishing,like how the human mind works
and how people like just operateoff of that.
But it makes sense.
It's.
Having adding attention toeverything in life will bring
(32:52):
attention to everything in yourlife everything is a a
psychology hack and habits, youknow, have to be trained.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You know you don't wake up one day and say I prefer
kale.
It's all intentionality andthat you have to have a lot.
I don't love kale either, Idon't, but I know that it does
some things for me, so I'll haveit sometimes.
That's why I take it.
But I know that it does somethings for me, and so I'll have
it sometimes.
That's why I take it.
I don't love it, make nomistake.
I don't know.
I'm saying God, why do you makethat taste like that?
(33:22):
And it has 30 minutes?
But yeah, so I have to get alot of dark green vegetables.
I am lactose intolerant and youneed your vitamin D, your
calcium.
You can get that from darkgreen vegetables, which is why
milk has it in it, but I can'tdrink milk, and so that's why I
eat things like kale and a lotof spinach and greens.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and just to kind of start wrapping this up,
my favorite sub-emotion whichdoes actually work is creatine.
You talked about depression.
There's tons of studies comingout right now showing creatine
actually helps curve depressionand helps with mental health.
So I mean, talk about asupplement that it's so easy to
add to your diet and helps withso many things.
(34:10):
But every time I'm telling aclient who's like 50 plus to
take it, they eye roll at me orthey say my doctor said I
shouldn't be taking this.
I'm like this is one of thehealthiest things you can take
and has absolutely no sideeffects.
So please, please, take it,please, god, whatever.
So listen to the show.
If you have depression,recommend it.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And the activity of just exercise.
Is well documented thatcardiovascular exercise
decreases depression and anxiety.
Well documented, um you know.
And most people can takecreatine, except for those who
have kidney problems.
If you don't have a kidneyproblem, you can take it okay,
go for it.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Or even better, you want to actually produce more
creatine, sleep better.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
That's one of the most under-thought about health
issues.
Sleep, because sleep isrestorative.
Sleep is good for your memory.
It's good for restoration ofmuscles when you're working out
hard.
Get you for eight hours.
It's the number one thing thatyou can do.
Sleep for eight hours and drinkenough water.
You're 66% water, so sleep andwater, not Dr Pepper, not juices
(35:19):
, water From the ocean.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
I love it.
We really unwrapped a lot inthere and I hope people
thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
It was a lot tied in, so I'mgoing to ask the final two
questions.
I asked everyone the first oneif you were to summarize this
episode in one or two sentenceswhat would be your take-home
message?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
My take-home message is definitely connect to your
purpose and your why for doinganything, and know that we need
to support healthcare workers,those people who take care of
you.
Remember to take care of them.
Be kind, be understanding whenyou're in the doctor's office,
in the emergency room.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I couldn't agree more .
The second question how canpeople find you, get a hold of
you and learn more?
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You can text STRONG to 55444 or get me at
drbstrongcom.
I do a newsletter and you cansign up.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Absolutely, pam.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you, guys, for listeningto this week's episode of health
and fitness redefined.
Don't forget, hit, subscribe,share the show with a friend.
It's the only way we grow.
And don't forget fitness ismedicine.
Until next time, thank you.
(36:42):
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