May 12, 2025 • 52 mins
Rick Richey, a 20-year fitness industry veteran and NASM educator since 2006, shares insider knowledge on personal training certifications and what makes NASM stand out in the industry.
• The journey from personal trainer to NASM educator, including turning down a celebrity training tour opportunity
• Explanation of NASM's Optimum Performance Training (OPT) model and its progression from stabilization to strength to power
• Comparison of major fitness certifications (NASM, ACE, ACSM, NSCA) and their different focuses
• Deep dive into the evolution of nutrition guidance in personal training and appropriate scope of practice
• The philosophy of client empowerment rather than dependency in trainer-client relationships
• The importance of continuous learning and choosing accredited certifications
• Announcement of NASM's upcoming Certified Wellness Coach certification
• The critical connection between education and practical application in fitness
Find Rick on Instagram @drrickrichey or email him at rickrichey@nasm.org.
Learn More at: www.Redefine-Fitness.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen.
Join me today as we take a diveinto the world of health and
fitness, where we're learning toovercome adversity, to pick
back first fiction and seehealth and fitness in a whole
new light.
Today, ladies and gentlemen, weare going to talk about
(00:35):
something that we haven't talkedabout in over a year roughly,
and I'm super excited to breakdown into personal training
certifications.
All about the National Academyof Sports Medicine, or NASM as
we like to call it in theindustry, because we think we
sound cool.
So, without further ado, let mewelcome to the show Rick
(00:56):
Ritchie.
Rick, welcome to the show man.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Anthony, it's a pleasure to be on.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm excited, man.
We've dived into so manydifferent types of fitness
topics and diet topics andeverything far in between, so
now we get to kind of get abreakdown of we're always like
reference these sources likethis is my source for this.
Now it's like you are thesource.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm the oracle.
I can't come to me.
I will answer your questions.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So it's just like we don't have to reference anything
anymore.
It's like, yeah, I wrote that.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So yeah, man.
So I did write quite a bit ofthe not quite a bit like a
contributed author to several ofthe projects that NASM and the
products that NASM has.
So, from their CPT to theircorrective exercise specialist,
their performance enhancementspecialist and their soon to
(01:54):
launch certified wellness coachcertification, which will be a
game changer in the industry.
But they haven't launched ityet.
They just announced it atOptima this past weekend.
So now that they announced it,I can actually announce that
it's coming out.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And you're hearing a first here.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You don't follow me.
Yeah, pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So tell us just a little bit about yourself.
How did you get involved into agig like working for NASM?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
stuff.
How did you get involved into agig like working for NASM?
So I actually started.
I started training back inFebruary 2002, which is going to
put me in a few months in my 20years in the fitness industry.
So that's actually pretty hardto hear myself audibilize, but
I've been doing this for almost20 years and I started working
(02:49):
as a personal trainer and it wassomething I wanted to do.
I grew up doing martial arts andmy martial arts coach was a gym
owner, a personal trainer andan incredible martial artist.
So I was like you know, whenyou grow up doing martial arts,
you want to be just like thatperson that teaches you.
So I was like I want to own agym and I want to teach martial
arts and I want to be a personaltrainer.
(03:09):
So that's what.
That was my plan, going into itand at a New York sports club
on 62nd and Broadway, and then,like I was into it I'm not gonna
lie Like I was into it.
(03:30):
I wanted to be, I wanted tolearn.
And the crazy thing is likewhile I was reading and studying
, I read the ACE textbookbecause I hadn't bought a
certification, I hadn't gotten acertification yet, but I heard
that ACE was good.
It was accepted and it wasinexpensive, and somebody had a
textbook, which means I didn'thave to buy it.
(03:50):
I was broke.
So, Anthony, let me clear thisup I was broke.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You and most other trainers.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So I read the textbook cover to cover and then
I'm about to sign up for thetest and somebody at the manager
at the gym says, hey, we justdid a partnership with NASM and
you can get a discount if yousign up for NASM.
And it was like 30 buckscheaper.
And I had already read the ACEbook like a textbook I've never
(04:20):
read a textbook in my life and Iwas like 30 bucks cheaper NASM.
So I went and I bought it and Iread another book from cover to
cover and failed the test thefirst time through.
So I thought I knew what I wasdoing.
And then, like putting it intoapplication, I was like I guess
I don't know what I'm doing andended up going and doing it
(04:41):
again and like working harderand being into it, asking people
questions like why?
Like in my mind, if you liftheavier, you get bigger.
But why?
Why is there like a hypertrophyrange that differs from max
strength, where you don't growas much?
And I would ask trainers thatquestion.
They were like I don't know,take the test, answer the
question and then do whateveryou want.
And I was like, oh, like Idon't want to be that trainer.
(05:06):
You know what I mean Like Idon't want to be that trainer,
so I learned more, right?
Uh started studying and thenended up getting uh like
interviewing and auditioning fora teaching gig for New York
sports club.
And at that time york sportsclubs, uh, actually town sports
international.
So washington, philadelphia,new york, um, and this one
(05:29):
boston they 150 clubs total, andso just in the new york area
you know you're in the new yorkarea I think, they were like I
worked out, you did ohyou did.
Yeah, so for me, dude, it wasit.
Um, there were 70 something NewYork sports clubs in the region
(05:50):
and so they were hiringpersonal trainers all the time.
So I taught the foundationsworkshops where people would
come in.
They'd learn program design,exercise, science.
There was a business day thatyou'd come in and at first it
was four days and then it gotcondensed down into like a day
or two and and at one point westarted teaching NASM and NASM
(06:13):
said oh, you want to teach it?
Let let us at least sendsomebody there to teach your
guys how to teach our stuff,like this is how we teach it.
So they sent in a guy who's notwith NASM anymore, but he and I
are still friends, named RobRettman, and Rob came in and we
all like he taught us, we wouldget back up, we would reteach,
and at one point Rob just pullsme aside and he was like you
(06:35):
should work for NASM.
He was like you're reallyfantastic, you have a great
presence, you should work forNASM.
And Anthony, I never experiencedso much joy or imposter
syndrome all at the same timeLike that's awesome, made me
feel good, because I felt likemy ability to like to get in
(06:56):
front of people and teach in away that is educational and
entertaining was good, but Iwasn't smart enough, I wasn't
educated enough.
That's not what my degree wasin.
You know, I had, I had somecertifications under my belt
because I wanted, I wanted thebig three.
So I went and I got, uh, youknow, my NASM, my ACSM and uh,
(07:18):
hfi and then my CSCS.
Cause I was like I don't havethe formal education, so let me
at least, like, get some reallystrong certifications.
But when he was like you shouldteach for any of them, I just
there was a big time, I'm notsmart enough, I don't know
enough.
Um, and then I found myself ina job, not in New York Sports
(07:42):
Club, but in a job like I wasn'ttoo happy about.
So I was like you know what?
I'm just going to apply forNASM.
And at the same time I wasapplying to a master's degree
program at Cal U a internationaltour as a trainer with a music
(08:04):
artist, because the tour wouldinterfere whenI would interview
with NASM.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And I was like that's a gamble.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It was.
It was a big gamble and, as myfriend said, who helped
coordinate the deal?
He was like you'll always havethe opportunity to work with
like celebrities or people Ifthat's what you want to do.
You're not always going to havethe opportunity like.
You can't lose this opportunitybecause it fits you right.
Like that's who I became at thegym, like the exercise science
(08:36):
educator guy, and he was likeand it's NASM?
And I was like you're right.
And I turned down the tour andwent at the time to Calabasas
and interviewed with Rodney Kornat the time and there were four
of us and they told us only oneof us would get it.
So it was.
It was like squid game, hungerGames we all got hired.
(08:58):
We all got hired.
What a jerk.
But it was an intensive and agreat experience.
And then that was 2006, Ibelieve.
So I've been yeah, I've beenwith NASM since 2006.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Wow, what a story yeah man.
That's like a story in and ofitself Just taking an
opportunity that you're notguaranteed living up something
that you are guaranteed to justget a chance on something that,
in and of itself, we could spendhours on Right right.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And the fact that it's cool and I'd never trained
a celeb really before and thiswas my opportunity to go on tour
, like European tour, like thatwas so exciting.
And at the same time I was likebut when the tour's over, what
right?
But if I get the nasm gig, thenI don't.
Well, clearly I'm, I'm here 15years later.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So that worked out well, let me ask you the
question that's going throughalmost every single trainer's
mind and I'm sure, like yours,before you even start why nasm
compared to ace acsm?
I mean, there's about 65million certifications now a
little over exaggerating but notby much.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So why nasm?
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
the one that you wanted to work for.
Why is that the one that youwanted to work for?
Why is that the one that youfeel people should take?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
You know what?
That's a really great questionand I can answer it because I
read the ACE manual cover tocover and I've been certified
through multiple things and thereal answer for me was that NASM
just seemed more applicable tomy client base that I wanted to
work with Right.
So CSCS, I wasn't working withathletes, uh.
(10:50):
So it was great information butnothing, not as much really
carried over to my fitnessclients.
With ACSM, I did the healthfitness instructor, which is a
lot of exercise fizz, and as westarted going through
applications for ACSM I was likeI'm never going to do heart
(11:13):
rate, I mean blood pressure, ona treadmill, like I'm just never
going to do that.
We don't have the wind gateassessments, so I'm not going to
do that in a gym.
Which one fits the more gym.
Now don't get me wrong.
Acsm, first of all, hardestexam I've ever taken.
I probably had more pride inthat than anything Like that was
crazy hard.
(11:35):
Nsca love the content, love thematerial.
It was just about theapplication in the group that I
worked with, so it didn't haveanything to do with the
information.
In fact, I found a lot of stuffin the group that I worked with
, so it didn't have anything todo with the information.
In fact, I found a lot of stuffin the ACE manual I would like
tell people about because Ithought it was so interesting
and you know, like I'm justinterested in stuff.
So that's why when people arelike, oh, I hate them, I hate
(11:57):
them.
I'm like why, like, they allhave good stuff and if it's
based in science, it's not justsome dude spouting out opinions,
then it's information that'svalidated as good information.
I just liked it because it hadsuch a good application for the
fitness client.
If, then right, if you have aclient that wants this, then
(12:21):
this is a part of a model youmay want to work to or through
in order to get to another levelin a model.
There was a training programmingmodel.
That made it very simple for me.
And the fact that, like, somepeople like will complain like,
oh, nasm, you stand on one leg alot, or do you know what I mean
(12:42):
?
I'm like that's just a phaseand I find that phase to be
really valuable.
It's not that we don't progressto standing on two legs and
it's not that standing on oneleg is required, but there are
so many options that I never sawin anything else that I'm like
look at the options, not look atthe dogma of you're supposed to
do this.
(13:02):
It was look at the options thatyou're given this library of
information, and if you want tofocus on muscular development,
you can focus on that.
If you want to focus on maxstrength or performance, you can
do all of those things.
But here's here's a programmingmodel that allows a wide
(13:22):
breadth of information versus.
This is what we do, and we'retrying not to pigeonhole
anything, but figure out howeverything can fit into a
systematic, progressive model oftraining.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
That was a great in-depth question.
Just that answer was just-.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was like yeah, the question was good.
I was just like wow wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Thank you, brother, you're selling me back on the
fact that I have a NASMcertification.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, nice.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
And just full disclosure for everyone
listening.
If you do not know already, Ihave my NASM CPTA, my NASM small
group training.
I make it a thing for all mytrainers pretty much to all have
NASM.
So really big component,component, and you nailed it
right on the head.
It's not that one certificationis better.
The truth of the matter is it'swhat clientele you're working
(14:15):
with.
So we don't work with athletesalmost never right.
We work with the people comingout of physical therapy, coming
out of post rehab.
Never, uh, stepped foot in thegym before.
I'm not having these guys throwweights around trying to bench
400 pounds and that's just notwhat we're about and I really
(14:37):
yeah component of how you guysset up your step program, or so
your training program, which Ijust want you to mention briefly
with it, where it starts atfirst learning, stabilization
exercises, then moving up tomuscular endurance, then
hypertrophy, then max strength,and then, once you master all
that, then you can get intopower training.
(14:57):
So talk, work us a littlethrough that model, if you can
through that model if you can?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, so initially NASM.
So the OPT model is the modelthat we use and, interestingly,
it is an athlete training modelthat was repurposed to work with
the everyday client, so it isdesigned to work with athletes.
In fact, when it was designedby Mike Clark, who was formerly
(15:26):
the CEO of NASM, he developedthe OPT model because he created
it.
He was physical, he is aphysical therapist, got a degree
in exercise science because hewanted to figure out how to
connect these two, because whenhe was working with athletes he
was like there seems to be not agreat connection between what
the physical therapists are,have them doing and what the
(15:47):
strength and conditioning coachor the athletic trainers were
doing with them, right, so hewanted to learn the other side,
went back, got a degree, putthem together and said, okay,
this is how we're going to workwith athletes.
And he was the head physicaltherapist at the Phoenix suns
and he utilized that to helppeople like Grant Hill, who was
at one point considered thebiggest financial flop in NBA
(16:09):
history because he went toOrlando $100 million contract,
five years, got hurt, playedlike 80 games total, went to the
Phoenix Suns.
Clark fixed him up beyond whata personal trainer can do, just
as a physical therapist, butapplied the OPT model and that
(16:30):
guy became back to all starstatus again and he thought that
his career was over.
And so Phoenix became thePhoenix.
Indeed, like all these injuredathletes were like can you trade
me to Phoenix so they can fixme?
Athletes were like can youtrade me to Phoenix so they can
fix me?
And so and they did like, shaqwent there and he was so busted
and they fixed him up and heplayed solid for a while, moved
(16:52):
on to another team afterwardsand was didn't just maintain
that ability.
So what's that?
What initially was was a sevenphase model and now it's a five
phase model with the two otherphases taken out, the one at the
bottom and the one at the top.
The one at the bottom wascorrective exercise and the one
at top was power.
(17:12):
So what they did is they made afull specialization out of the
one at the bottom, which is thecorrective exercise specialist.
So they said let's take thatvery bottom one and say
corrective exercise is so deep,if a personal trainer is going
to do it, they need to havetheir own specialization.
And then they went kind of likethe NASM's comparable
(17:35):
certification to NSCA's CSCS.
They created, just with the topversion of the OPT model, the
power phase.
They created the performanceenhancement specialist and it is
very focused on the individualathlete.
So that was very, veryimportant to NASM that they're
(17:57):
not focusing on.
Here's what we do as a team, andthis is in-season, pre-season,
post-season, off-season and justthe things that we do there as
a team.
But this is what you as anathlete on this team
specifically, I'm looking at,and so it would go through like
the performance assessments andthe movement assessments and the
why.
But then it also had theprogramming.
(18:18):
Now, those two taken apart,then we're left with the CPT,
the certified personal trainersversion of the OPT model.
So that starts us off withstabilization endurance, and I
like the names of them becauseit tells you exactly what your
outcomes are.
So what do you want to focus on?
Stabilization endurance Good,we have one for that.
(18:39):
It's called stabilizationendurance.
Then there's strength endurance.
You mentioned this hypertrophywhich in the CPT seven we
changed it back to its originalname muscular development.
Then we have max strength andthen power.
So there are five phases in theCPT version of the OPT model.
(19:00):
There's a stabilization level,a strength level, a power level,
and I think detractors a lot oftimes they just don't like the
stabilization stuff, so they'llpoint at that.
But out of the three levels wehave, the strength phase has
(19:20):
these are the strength level hasthree different phases in it,
like there's more time spent inthe strength phase than any
other phase and so there's noreason to detract.
In fact I had, um, uh, anOlympian on the other day.
So bodybuilder, olympian, notlike fencing or anything like
that.
So Mr Olympia, bodybuilder,just throwing it out there, cool
, yeah, uh, andre Adams is hisname and he's he's an Olympian
(19:44):
bodybuilder.
And he said you know we'retalking, he's, he's big into
NASM, he's big into the OPTmodel and he was like you can
spend almost a full three monthsin your hypertrophy phase just
by switching up the variablesthat are already in the
hypertrophy phase.
He was like the ability to dothat and he goes.
(20:05):
But the good news is that NASMsees and a lot of other people
don't see is that you do need tocycle out of it.
But which way are you going tocycle?
You can go either way and itdoesn't matter.
You can cycle down and dostabilization and endurance and
get your joints right andprotect yourself from the big
weights you're pushing.
Or you can go into max strength.
You can get more neuralactivation.
(20:26):
Maybe some of those muscles andthose nerve, those fibers that
weren't really activating before.
You can slap them around, wakethem up, get them back down into
the hypertrophy phase and blowthem up too.
So there are a lot of optionsthere and I think that when you
get athletes that historicallyhave done the OPT model but now
(20:47):
even bodybuilders are looking atthings like the OPT model and
going man, this is great for howit supported me, the
individuals we worked withthroughout the years through the
NBA, the NFL, and NFL has beena tougher turn because they're
so traditional historically intheir training but, like the, we
are now the official, likeeducation partner of the NBA, ta
(21:12):
, the trainers association forthe NBA, same thing for the NHL.
So they're they're reallyconnected with, with us and our
products and our education,whether it's a personal training
certification.
But athletic trainers aren't somuch about the personal
training certs, they want thatPES and CES.
They're getting that andapplying that directly to the
(21:32):
athletes which are kind of thebookends to that opt model.
Where do I start them becausethey need correctives, and then
how do I finish them up to gettheir performance elevated?
And then there's a model thatconnects those two in between
yeah, it's, it's so interestingand we see it a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We've mentioned the and the Andre Adams and the
traditional bodybuildingstandpoint.
You're talking from the Arnolddays, where he references that
he would snort cocaine, take ashot of tequila during his
exercises, just little thingslike that, because he thought he
was helping himself.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And now we've come to a more systematic approach to
really how to make your bodyhealthier, how to move better,
how to feel better, how to growyour muscles in the standpoint
if you're looking for that andit's laid out pretty nicely
through that opt model- yeah,agreed, agreed, and you know,
like, is it possible that youknow some of those things that
(22:35):
that Arnold did back in the daywere good and some of those
things that they did were bad,and a lot of times, here's the
thing is that, like many times,athletes and bodybuilders and
others they almost don't careabout the path getting there, as
long as it gets the outcome,and that's with anybody really
(22:56):
looking to succeed, whether it'sthe Tour de France, you know
what I mean.
Like there are a lot of thingsthat people want to know how
they can enhance performance.
From our perspective, how canwe do that?
By getting the body to workbetter without adding the
external things that are goinginto it.
(23:18):
So, as a professional, what dowe do?
We work with the body, and howdo I get the body to maximize
performance in ways that we can?
When it comes to, like, throughmovement, how can I get
movement to maximize performance?
And that's really what theentire book of NASM is, sans the
(23:40):
certified nutrition specialistthat they came out with last
year.
That's been crushing it.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I don't want you to talk too much about that,
because I have specificquestions about that one.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and I don't know a lot about it yet like I'm
actually taking it right now,but I haven't gone through the
entire course yet it's a verybasic question.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I'll just ask you right now go for it through
basic certifications.
I know nasm does it, I know acmdoes it.
They're very against teachingdiet and or nutrition, however
you want to call it, whereasthey want to leave that to
professionals, aka registereddietitians, because they have
licensure through differentstates and the federal
(24:24):
government.
So walk us through where thatcertification A lies or what the
scope of the trainer should bewhen it comes to nutrition yeah,
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So a few uh decade or more ago, john berardi really
flipped this on his head, sohe's a precision nutrition guy
and his book right now.
Yeah, yeah.
So and here's what happened.
When I first started probablyyou too we were told at New York
(24:57):
Sports Club that I worked withat the time don't even mention
the word nutrition, don'tsuggest anything.
Now, what had happened is thatone of the gyms in New York City
, a woman asked her trainer whatdo I need to do?
What supplement should I take?
He took her to a supplementstore and said this is what you
(25:21):
should take.
And he gives her a bunch ofthings, and ephedra was on one
of those and she ended up takingthat.
She had an underlying conditionand she died.
So the store got sued, thetrainer got sued, the company
got sued.
Um, the, the fitness company,got sued.
It was a huge industry thing andall of a sudden, everything's
(25:43):
off the shelves, nobody sellingbars or like there was nothing.
You can get anything.
And slowly they would startcoming in.
You know, places like dot fitwere like it's okay, these are
okay to have, and, and theystarted building that and people
started bringing in supplements, but nobody talked about diet,
nobody talked about anything.
Now, what we're looking at, andJohn Berardi flipped that and
(26:07):
NASM went in and said well, weneed to speak to this as well,
because clearly there's a marketfor it.
And so they got some of theabsolute, like most incredible
subject matter experts innutrition and researchers, and
they had them put togethercontent.
So they were assigned theseconcepts and then they developed
(26:31):
.
It was really beautifully done.
So what can they talk about?
You can talk about nutrition,but you can't.
You can, and whether or notthose things are happening if
you have somebody with apathology so, for instance, I'm
(26:56):
type 2 diabetic.
So a trainer talking to meabout nutrition like you have to
be, you have to be out of yourmind like this is not a
conversation for you to behaving with me.
I need to be having thisconversation with a registered
dietitian, not even myendocrinologist, because she
doesn't even know that muchabout nutrition.
You know what I mean.
Like the registered dietitian,their job is almost exclusively
(27:20):
and we think, oh, maybe thatweight loss, weight loss, yeah,
that's nice.
They deal with that almostexclusively, working with people
that have pathologies and howtheir diet plays into that.
Like that's what they go toschool, that's why they get paid
, that's why they went to schoolfor so long, and master's
(27:41):
degree and fellowships beforethey even sit down and can have
their first client.
That's not underneath somebodyelse that is going with it.
It's a deep field.
What can we talk about?
Macros, micros, you know, withthat, like vitamins and minerals
, what?
What did they do?
What did they mean?
How does this food affect ourbody?
What can I relate this to?
Pathology without telling youwhat to eat?
(28:03):
Yes, but if you have apathology, the first thing I do
is send you off to somebody else, because I'm not like.
Talking about nutrition in ageneral way is very important.
The other thing about thiscourse is it's not so much about
telling people what to do,because that's not what coaching
is.
Coaching is a guide that allowssomebody else to maximize their
(28:27):
output.
So I'm a huge football fan,college football Specifically.
I grew up in Alabama.
I've been living in New Yorkfor 20 years, but listen you
grew up in Alabama, it's.
Alabama, auburn or out.
So I was a big Alabama fanstill am to this day.
And Nick Saban we talk abouthim like people love to make fun
(28:48):
of him because he's always sostoic, and the great thing about
great coaches is they'll giveabout him Like.
People love to make fun of himbecause he's always so stoic and
uh.
But the great thing about greatcoaches is you know they'll
give guidelines but somebodyelse has to execute it.
So how do I teach somebody toexecute?
How do I coach them to execute?
Not tell them what to do, likethat's not the goal.
The goal was to get somebody askill set and a perspective that
(29:12):
allows them to executeappropriately, and that's
coaching.
And that's a huge part of thecertified nutrition coach isn't
just the data on nutrition, butit's on coaching.
And I think that, my friend, iskey to behavior change to
(29:32):
behavior change.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
A client-centric approach tonutrition is the best way to
kind of underline, educate theperson about it and give them
the tools they need to maketheir own decisions and live
their own life.
It kind of goes back hand inhand with exercising.
It's the same thing.
Personally, as a trainer, thelast thing I want and this may
sound counterproductive to someof you trainers listening to
(29:54):
this, or clients but I wantevery single one of my clients
to know as much as me or morethan me.
The last thing I want is to notto withhold information because
I'm afraid that that client'snot no longer going to need me.
That is not why I'm a trainer.
I want everyone to knoweverything.
(30:16):
I want you to be.
The biggest compliment I've gotis I've had two clients now
become trainers and that is hugein my eyes.
Yeah, yeah.
So what?
Work us through that?
The coaching side of being atrainer, teaching people and how
, as trainers, we should pullaway from that stigma of, hey,
(30:38):
let's just withhold informationto make money, because it's a
hard field to get into.
Work us through this.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I hate that so much.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
All right, so I'm going to have to go back through
.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Let me find something I said recently but it bothered
me so so much.
I remember when I was inmassage therapy school and I was
talking about foam rolling andthe massage therapists were like
no, I would never tell them tofoam roll.
And I was like why?
And they were like then theywon't need us.
And I was like, are you out ofyour mind?
(31:10):
I said the reason I went intomassage therapy school is
because the things that foamrolling can't do right, like
there's so many things that youcan't do to loosen your own
muscles up and to prep.
I said that bothers me so muchthat you are so concerned with
that that that you decide not toeven teach somebody some
(31:35):
self-efficacy.
And I think that that's one ofthe big things when it comes to
personal training is that youshould be teaching self-efficacy
.
You should be teaching peoplehow to move on their own and how
to progress.
And the truth of the matter is Ihave a lot of clients that
(31:55):
don't need me.
They just continue to use me,right, because I've taught them
the things that they need to doto be successful and they have
taken that.
But they still want me to trainthem because they think that me
training them.
They get more out of it, andmaybe that's right.
Maybe they do.
I sure get more out of workingwith other people than if it's
(32:17):
just me working out on my own.
So what should you do as apersonal trainer?
I mean ultimately even as amassage therapist, and when they
say, you know how often shouldI come in, I'm like when you're
ready, right, like if you wantto keep coming in, and keep
coming in if you're not hurtanymore.
Don't come in If, as a trainer,we're either getting to your
goals or we're not getting toyour goals.
(32:38):
So we need to do one of twothings we need to switch our
goals, or you need to switchyour trainer and and and or
change your perspective, right,because sometimes the goals and
the outcomes just aren't withinthe realm of what's achievable.
So, with that being said, I justwant to teach people how to,
how to move and be active ontheir own.
(32:59):
And when they're active, Iwould like for their movement to
be better than it would havebeen if they didn't move, if
they didn't come and see me.
But the truth of the matter isand I mentioned this early on
like my ultimate goal these daysare just to get people to be
more active and through myeducation with NASM, I can work
(33:21):
to get you more active.
Hopefully, my work with NASMallows you to move better whilst
being active, and that's whereI think we need to direct our
clients.
Yeah, definitely Just kind ofgetting up moving, giving them
the tools they need being.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
That's where I think we need to direct our clients.
Yeah, definitely, Just kind ofgetting up moving, giving them
the tools they need, being thatresource.
That's what podcasting is about, is it not 100%?
Here's a free resource foreveryone in the world to listen
to and go on with their days andtake that admission and use it.
I know you asked me a littlebit pre-show.
(33:55):
You wanted me to give youquestions about the good, the
bad, about NASM, what I thought.
I actually decided that I'm notgoing to do that, but instead
I'm going to ask you those samequestions.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I want you to work us through what you think is the
best part about it, what do youthink is the worst part about it
?
And ultimately, I know we'reboth going to be on the same
page.
That why everyone should notonly look into different
certifications because everysingle one of them is different.
A lot of them just fulldisclosure, like not even going
to mention names.
But there's certain certs thatyou take your test online and
(34:33):
you can copy paste from a friend, and NASM is not one of those.
So one of the main reasons Ilike NASM because it actually
has a really good exam structureto it.
But work us through why youlove it, what maybe they need to
improve on for the future, whatmaybe is coming, go for it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think one big thing to talk about here is the
accreditation process and a lotall the certifications that are
the big ones that you know ofthe ACSMs, nscas, ace, those
that they're all part of theNCCA accreditation.
So what that means is that wenow have and NASM is a part of
(35:12):
that right, like you, there areguidelines, there are rules that
you have to abide by if you'regoing to produce content.
So there's no way to do a copyand paste.
They put in you know, thesehave to be proctored
examinations.
For the ones that areaccredited certifications,
they're proctored, they aresourced not through just the
(35:37):
company but the people who arein the field.
So NASM flew a bunch of peopleout to Ascend Learning owns NASM
.
They flew them out to KansasCity and they said, hey, what
are the topics that our trainersneed to know?
And you write the questions.
And then they took a four hourworkshop on question writing.
So you have to not only do that, but you have to write
(35:59):
questions in a way that um, that, uh.
So here's one of the examplesthe, the people that are
teaching the workshop don't knowanything about fitness and
they'd walk up and they'd readquestions and the, the multiple
choice answers and they'd go, oh, the answer is D.
And they're like how did youknow that?
And they would just say,because of everything else had
(36:20):
this, but this one was anoutlier, so it had to be the
right one.
And they were like that's crazy, that you would know that.
So, uh, a lot of people thatare good at test taking don't
even have to know what thecontent is and they could pass a
test.
So they taught you how to teach, how to ask questions, how to
put the answers in.
There are a lot of things inthe accreditation process that
(36:43):
legitimize these accreditations.
So when you get accredited,then that is a big deal, and
what accreditation did wasallowed the industry to move
forward in regulating itselfversus what states like Maryland
have brought into legislationmultiple times, which is making
(37:05):
fitness a license, and eachstate license you as a fitness
professional.
Well then the variety in thefield starts to go away, because
everybody has to align with.
This is what the stateorganization tells you that you
need to learn.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know that happened in New.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
York right, I think they proposed it in New York as
well.
So what happened?
Because nothing was accredited.
Ihrsa, which is kind of likethe non-regulating regulating
body of the fitness industry,goes we can do this, we don't
need your interference.
We, as an industry and so thebig names and the big certs, all
kind of pooled resource, pooledcontent and worked together to
(37:48):
find accreditation that allowedus to all move forward without
the state telling us and that'sfor any state that you're in
telling you this is how you needto teach and you get a state
license.
Now I have a license in massagetherapy, so I went to school,
so your different schools canteach different topics, but you
all have like a state licensethat you would need to get and
(38:10):
then you register again andagain every few years.
So same thing like, if you wantto keep your, your
certification, you have to goback and do continuing education
in order to maintain yourcertification.
And I'm I'm a big fan ofcontinuing education and I've
had.
I've had trainers tell me uh,and cause they want to work at
(38:32):
my gym.
So I own several gyms in NewYork city and they say how can I
train my clients at your gym?
And I said, yeah, just give meyour.
I need several things from you,including CPR, aed
certification.
I need your, uh, nationallyaccredited certification and um,
you know, insurance, andthere's a whole list of things
that I that I get from them.
(38:53):
And they'll say, oh, I, uh, Idon't believe in certifications.
I got them for years.
I've been certified for a longtime.
I let them lapse, is it okay?
And I was like, yeah, man, yeah, I'm just gonna.
You are barking up the wrongtree with this guy, right, like
for for somebody to say howsmart they are, that they don't
need continuing education orcertification.
I'm like, well, at that point,I don't know how smart you are,
(39:17):
because you don't have anyinformation that tells me you've
accomplished anything, just anego that tells me you're smarter
than everybody else.
That does.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'll just throw in, I'll just make a perfect example
for you.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Something I still see in gyms nowadays is everyone's
still doing lat pull downsbehind the neck, like that's
been not a thing for 10, 15years, and people are still
doing it, and they're watchingthe older folks do it, because
they're bodybuilders and it'sjust like that is so bad for
your cervical spine.
Come on Like this.
(39:51):
No, stop so please.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, you know what?
It's funny too.
Like there are some people I'veseen and they look so good on
Instagram doing behind the headpull downs, and then they'll say
things like we were told not todo this and I was like, well,
you can do it.
You're the only person I'veseen whose head didn't jump
forward and your arms didn't goin a weird position, like there
(40:15):
are outliers that can do thingsthat other people can't do.
But as a general rule, I wantto know why you're doing it.
Like, why are you doing it?
And if you think it's becauseyou get better activation in
that position, that's not true.
All you're doing is juttingyour head forward, shrugging
your shoulders and pulling yourarms into a closed pack position
(40:36):
at your shoulders.
That doesn't allow for reallyfreedom of movement.
So why do you do what you do?
And some people, like this guythat I saw on Instagram he was
fantastic, he's legitimatelylike he can do that.
If I watch some people that dosnatches, uh, and they land in a
deep squat position and theirback is arched and their arms
(40:57):
are pulled back way farther thanthey would be in a behind the
head, the lat pull down withtheir arms way back, and I'm
like you know what that moves,not for everybody either.
Is it okay that people thatsnatch put their arms in that
position?
Yeah, because that's what asnatch is.
And what do you want to getbetter?
You want to get better atsnatches, but nobody says, yeah,
I just want to get really goodat behind the neck lat pull
(41:20):
downs because it's a thing.
No, you need to have a betterreason why, and a lot of times
their reason, which is oh, it'sreally good for engaging the
lats, it's not as ideal in latengagement, so your reason
doesn't match the outcome and weneed to be aware of that.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Oh yeah, you pretty much summed it.
So just real quick because Idon't want to start wrapping up
is what's something you wouldpush towards?
Not bad, but just what do youthink the direction NASM and
other search should take to helpbetter the field?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I think that there's there's a divide between
education and application, andNASM recognizes this, because
the OPT model is education abouthow to apply, and yet we still
find in the industry that peoplethat are NASM certified still
(42:17):
have a hard time understandinghow to apply something that even
as educators, we look at it andwe're like I mean it's like
written out for you, somethingthat even as educators, we look
at it and we're like and thenit's like written out for you,
and so there's a disconnectstill on what the application is
for some like a training model.
Do I know how to answer thatquestion?
The truth of the matter is Idon't.
(42:38):
I do what do you get?
What do you get?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So that's actually something that I've mentioned
before and I love how that waswhat you picked, because that's
my exact answer.
Like, that was my exact issueof what I think everyone should
do For your tests.
Instead of making it where youpass a pen and paper test, have
a practical component withtrusted organizations where
people have to do a certainamount of application, shadowing
(43:02):
hours in order to be able totake the exam.
So we did this.
In college, we had anunaccredited personal training
course where we took classes andthen we had workshops on top of
the classes.
So we had a practical exam pluswe had a written exam.
So we were able to take both.
And that understanding knowledgeis different than actually
applying it.
And we were able to take both.
And that understandingknowledge is different than
(43:24):
actually applying it.
And we will apply it in apractical.
I think it's something thatcould easily be done.
I know Nazism is a hugeorganization, but if they took
gyms and accredited gyms like,say, I had someone like you
who's super knowledgeable andsay, hey, you know, redefine
fitness, we got you.
Guys, you know what you'retalking about.
This is the steps we're lookingfor.
(43:45):
This is what I want you to doand you have to pass these
trainers in order to qualifythem for the written exam.
Boom.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
So, when it comes to accreditation, that's not
something that you can do.
And unfortunately, this is wherethe hands are tied in many
instances, because how can Icreate equity with people who
don't have gyms, that that isaccessible to them, and there
(44:15):
are a lot of places where that'snot accessible.
Also, we've even done thingswith internships and they call
them gym internships and a lotof times, even the people in the
gym internship aren't teachingNASM information, so we can't
get somebody else to to do that,and so what happens is it's
kind of like.
It's kind of like.
(44:37):
I mean, even today, like mydoctorate and my master's degree
, I did it online.
So when I go to school and havesomebody like teach me this is
how you apply it, it's for me tofigure that out.
And also, when you go and youlearn this information, if you
want to get a job, the hope isthat, like, your job is the
(44:58):
onsite education, uh, andexperience and application, your
education is trying to figureout how do I create something
with that?
And that's part of theaccreditation process.
So we can't accredit people bydoing that and would that be a
great idea?
Yeah, man, like I would neversay that that's a bad idea.
(45:22):
It'd be a brilliant idea.
It's just it is legend, right,like it's so big, it's so
(45:48):
massive that it's not somethingthat that we can do.
Nasm Podcast Network, wherethere are four different
podcasts that you can go to andthat you can be like all right,
here's my ongoing continuingeducation.
Continuing education not, youdon't get CECs for it, but
here's your continuing educationthat you can go and learn and
and figure out, like what aresome of the means that I can
(46:10):
apply these things versus here'smy textbook, here's maybe an
online course, and after thatit's done like we don't have
anything else to provide you.
You are, on your own, kickedout of the nest and these ways
through the podcasts.
So not just mine, but manyother people.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
What's yours, just for our?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
audience.
I have the NASM CPT podcast soCertified Personal Trainer
podcast and the cool thing isthat it's not just about NASM.
So I don't just talk about whatNASM talks about.
I go through and I findresearch that's interesting.
I'm a business owner.
You want to learn about openingyour own gym or how to build
your business or what's a socialmedia strategy you can employ.
(46:52):
I talk about that Like thereare a lot of things because I
wear a lot of hats in theindustry that I can speak to
from my experience and I love it.
I have guests on that can speakfrom research.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And I love it.
I have guests on that can speakfrom research, so I like to
have people on that are work inresearch or work in a clinic
that allow us to learn from them.
As a last point, I think thehardest part about being a
trainer and I mentioned thisduring every interview is it's a
lot like being a real estateagent, and I'm going to
reference that because that'ssomething I did pre being a
trainer.
It's one of the hardest careersbecause A of the way that you
(47:42):
get paid, b you're.
There's two most valuableassets we have in our lives it's
our homes and it's our bodies.
So it takes us a lot to trustsomebody to sell or work with
that entity, whether it is yourhouse or whether it is yourself.
So, as a trainer, not havingthat understanding of how to get
(48:05):
somebody to trust you to workwith them because they're, but
they only have one body that'ssomething that a lot of trainers
struggle with is building yourclientele.
They might know everything, butthe sales aspect is foreign to
them.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I think it's important to like to talk about
sales in the fitness industryand to let people know that you
could be a very educated trainerand you could be a very
experienced and apt trainer.
But if nobody knows that nobodybuys it, then then you're
really good at doing nothingbecause you can't provide it to
(48:42):
anybody and sales is a part ofthat process.
And sales is a part of thatprocess.
Marketing is a part of thatprocess.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's something we talk about
another time.
But, rick, I want you to wrapthis thing up.
Give us this last minute sum up, everything we spoke about
about NASM, about yourself.
Just gives us a summary and thelast take home message.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, lifelong learner.
So just get out there and keeplearning.
Do I want you to learn throughNASM 100%?
Do I want you to learn anyway,100%?
So get out there and build youreducation and learn and want to
learn, and one of the greatways that you can want to learn
if you're like I want to learn,but I don't right, because, like
(49:23):
I want to play guitar, I justdon't want to learn how to do it
, so I just want to be able to.
So what are the things that youdo?
Well, one thing that I did is Igot a ukulele over here.
So, like I'm taking small stepsto learn how to do things that
I want to do that I don't wantto spend time doing, and so now
I can play, you are my sunshine.
(49:43):
So, with that being said, likegetting out there and learn a
little bit, like just findsomething that you're interested
in, even if it's not fitness,because I think wanting to learn
, learning, reading, consuminginformation has, as researcher
in psychology, barbaraFredrickson talks about, upward
spirals.
(50:04):
It, uh, you build on thingsthat you're good at and you let
that expand to other things, andI think if we spent more time,
uh, creating that around who weare and what we want to do, then
that would start making its way, would creep its way into so
many other aspects of our lives,with work, with our family,
(50:27):
with our interactions withothers, with our learning, with
our education, and so just beinga part of that upward spiral
when it comes to self-betterment, and that applies to our
fitness as well.
So if I can do that with myselfand I can get my clients to
find something that they likenot bring in a man and just find
a bunch of things that theydon't like, but I've decided
(50:49):
that's what's good for youphysically, but mentally it's
not sitting well, they hatedoing it Then I can bring them
in and I can say what do youwant to do today?
And that used to be the worstthing.
I could hear you say what doyou want to do today?
Because to me that meant youdidn't put a program together.
Now it means you're actuallyinterested in what somebody else
is wanting to do, as long asyou still put a program together
(51:10):
for them.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Absolutely Couldn't agree more on that one.
And then last question wherecan people find you, get a hold
of you?
They want to learn more.
We know you host the NASM CPTpodcast, which I highly
recommend everybody listen to,but which I highly recommend
everybody listen to.
But where else can people getahold of you, Rick?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, so I'm on social.
I'm mostly available onInstagram at drrickrichey
R-I-C-K-R-I-C-H-E-Y, or you canhit me up on my email,
rickrichey at nasmorg.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And thank you guys for joining us on this week's
episode of Health and FitnessRedefined.
Don't forget, hit thatsubscribe button and join us
next week as we dive deeper intothis ever-changing field.
And remember fitness is ajourney, not a destination.
Until next time.
For us, we know what it's liketo feel unhealthy, depressed and
(52:02):
downright defeated.
We want to show others there isa right way and through fitness
you can do anything you setyour mind to.
Fitness can give you thatmotivation, confidence, energy
you need to bridge that mentalgap and prevent you from missing
important life events.
We understand it's aboutfeeling better, living longer
(52:27):
and being good examples for ourkids.
We understand this because welive it and for us, that's the
Redefined Difference.
Hello and welcome to Health and Fitness Redefined.
I'm your host, anthony Amen.
Join me today as we take a diveinto the world of health and
fitness, where we're learning toovercome adversity, to pick
back first fiction and seehealth and fitness in a whole
new light.
Today, ladies and gentlemen, weare going to talk about
(00:35):
something that we haven't talkedabout in over a year roughly,
and I'm super excited to breakdown into personal training
certifications.
All about the National Academyof Sports Medicine, or NASM as
we like to call it in theindustry, because we think we
sound cool.
So, without further ado, let mewelcome to the show Rick
(00:56):
Ritchie.
Rick, welcome to the show man.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Anthony, it's a pleasure to be on.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm excited, man.
We've dived into so manydifferent types of fitness
topics and diet topics andeverything far in between, so
now we get to kind of get abreakdown of we're always like
reference these sources likethis is my source for this.
Now it's like you are thesource.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm the oracle.
I can't come to me.
I will answer your questions.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So it's just like we don't have to reference anything
anymore.
It's like, yeah, I wrote that.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
So yeah, man.
So I did write quite a bit ofthe not quite a bit like a
contributed author to several ofthe projects that NASM and the
products that NASM has.
So, from their CPT to theircorrective exercise specialist,
their performance enhancementspecialist and their soon to
(01:54):
launch certified wellness coachcertification, which will be a
game changer in the industry.
But they haven't launched ityet.
They just announced it atOptima this past weekend.
So now that they announced it,I can actually announce that
it's coming out.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And you're hearing a first here.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You don't follow me.
Yeah, pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So tell us just a little bit about yourself.
How did you get involved into agig like working for NASM?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
stuff.
How did you get involved into agig like working for NASM?
So I actually started.
I started training back inFebruary 2002, which is going to
put me in a few months in my 20years in the fitness industry.
So that's actually pretty hardto hear myself audibilize, but
I've been doing this for almost20 years and I started working
(02:49):
as a personal trainer and it wassomething I wanted to do.
I grew up doing martial arts andmy martial arts coach was a gym
owner, a personal trainer andan incredible martial artist.
So I was like you know, whenyou grow up doing martial arts,
you want to be just like thatperson that teaches you.
So I was like I want to own agym and I want to teach martial
arts and I want to be a personaltrainer.
(03:09):
So that's what.
That was my plan, going into itand at a New York sports club
on 62nd and Broadway, and then,like I was into it I'm not gonna
lie Like I was into it.
(03:30):
I wanted to be, I wanted tolearn.
And the crazy thing is likewhile I was reading and studying
, I read the ACE textbookbecause I hadn't bought a
certification, I hadn't gotten acertification yet, but I heard
that ACE was good.
It was accepted and it wasinexpensive, and somebody had a
textbook, which means I didn'thave to buy it.
(03:50):
I was broke.
So, Anthony, let me clear thisup I was broke.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You and most other trainers.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So I read the textbook cover to cover and then
I'm about to sign up for thetest and somebody at the manager
at the gym says, hey, we justdid a partnership with NASM and
you can get a discount if yousign up for NASM.
And it was like 30 buckscheaper.
And I had already read the ACEbook like a textbook I've never
(04:20):
read a textbook in my life and Iwas like 30 bucks cheaper NASM.
So I went and I bought it and Iread another book from cover to
cover and failed the test thefirst time through.
So I thought I knew what I wasdoing.
And then, like putting it intoapplication, I was like I guess
I don't know what I'm doing andended up going and doing it
(04:41):
again and like working harderand being into it, asking people
questions like why?
Like in my mind, if you liftheavier, you get bigger.
But why?
Why is there like a hypertrophyrange that differs from max
strength, where you don't growas much?
And I would ask trainers thatquestion.
They were like I don't know,take the test, answer the
question and then do whateveryou want.
And I was like, oh, like Idon't want to be that trainer.
(05:06):
You know what I mean Like Idon't want to be that trainer,
so I learned more, right?
Uh started studying and thenended up getting uh like
interviewing and auditioning fora teaching gig for New York
sports club.
And at that time york sportsclubs, uh, actually town sports
international.
So washington, philadelphia,new york, um, and this one
(05:29):
boston they 150 clubs total, andso just in the new york area
you know you're in the new yorkarea I think, they were like I
worked out, you did ohyou did.
Yeah, so for me, dude, it wasit.
Um, there were 70 something NewYork sports clubs in the region
(05:50):
and so they were hiringpersonal trainers all the time.
So I taught the foundationsworkshops where people would
come in.
They'd learn program design,exercise, science.
There was a business day thatyou'd come in and at first it
was four days and then it gotcondensed down into like a day
or two and and at one point westarted teaching NASM and NASM
(06:13):
said oh, you want to teach it?
Let let us at least sendsomebody there to teach your
guys how to teach our stuff,like this is how we teach it.
So they sent in a guy who's notwith NASM anymore, but he and I
are still friends, named RobRettman, and Rob came in and we
all like he taught us, we wouldget back up, we would reteach,
and at one point Rob just pullsme aside and he was like you
(06:35):
should work for NASM.
He was like you're reallyfantastic, you have a great
presence, you should work forNASM.
And Anthony, I never experiencedso much joy or imposter
syndrome all at the same timeLike that's awesome, made me
feel good, because I felt likemy ability to like to get in
(06:56):
front of people and teach in away that is educational and
entertaining was good, but Iwasn't smart enough, I wasn't
educated enough.
That's not what my degree wasin.
You know, I had, I had somecertifications under my belt
because I wanted, I wanted thebig three.
So I went and I got, uh, youknow, my NASM, my ACSM and uh,
(07:18):
hfi and then my CSCS.
Cause I was like I don't havethe formal education, so let me
at least, like, get some reallystrong certifications.
But when he was like you shouldteach for any of them, I just
there was a big time, I'm notsmart enough, I don't know
enough.
Um, and then I found myself ina job, not in New York Sports
(07:42):
Club, but in a job like I wasn'ttoo happy about.
So I was like you know what?
I'm just going to apply forNASM.
And at the same time I wasapplying to a master's degree
program at Cal U a internationaltour as a trainer with a music
(08:04):
artist, because the tour wouldinterfere whenI would interview
with NASM.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And I was like that's a gamble.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It was.
It was a big gamble and, as myfriend said, who helped
coordinate the deal?
He was like you'll always havethe opportunity to work with
like celebrities or people Ifthat's what you want to do.
You're not always going to havethe opportunity like.
You can't lose this opportunitybecause it fits you right.
Like that's who I became at thegym, like the exercise science
(08:36):
educator guy, and he was likeand it's NASM?
And I was like you're right.
And I turned down the tour andwent at the time to Calabasas
and interviewed with Rodney Kornat the time and there were four
of us and they told us only oneof us would get it.
So it was.
It was like squid game, hungerGames we all got hired.
(08:58):
We all got hired.
What a jerk.
But it was an intensive and agreat experience.
And then that was 2006, Ibelieve.
So I've been yeah, I've beenwith NASM since 2006.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Wow, what a story yeah man.
That's like a story in and ofitself Just taking an
opportunity that you're notguaranteed living up something
that you are guaranteed to justget a chance on something that,
in and of itself, we could spendhours on Right right.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
And the fact that it's cool and I'd never trained
a celeb really before and thiswas my opportunity to go on tour
, like European tour, like thatwas so exciting.
And at the same time I was likebut when the tour's over, what
right?
But if I get the nasm gig, thenI don't.
Well, clearly I'm, I'm here 15years later.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So that worked out well, let me ask you the
question that's going throughalmost every single trainer's
mind and I'm sure, like yours,before you even start why nasm
compared to ace acsm?
I mean, there's about 65million certifications now a
little over exaggerating but notby much.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So why nasm?
Why is that?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
the one that you wanted to work for.
Why is that the one that youwanted to work for?
Why is that the one that youfeel people should take?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
You know what?
That's a really great questionand I can answer it because I
read the ACE manual cover tocover and I've been certified
through multiple things and thereal answer for me was that NASM
just seemed more applicable tomy client base that I wanted to
work with Right.
So CSCS, I wasn't working withathletes, uh.
(10:50):
So it was great information butnothing, not as much really
carried over to my fitnessclients.
With ACSM, I did the healthfitness instructor, which is a
lot of exercise fizz, and as westarted going through
applications for ACSM I was likeI'm never going to do heart
(11:13):
rate, I mean blood pressure, ona treadmill, like I'm just never
going to do that.
We don't have the wind gateassessments, so I'm not going to
do that in a gym.
Which one fits the more gym.
Now don't get me wrong.
Acsm, first of all, hardestexam I've ever taken.
I probably had more pride inthat than anything Like that was
crazy hard.
(11:35):
Nsca love the content, love thematerial.
It was just about theapplication in the group that I
worked with, so it didn't haveanything to do with the
information.
In fact, I found a lot of stuffin the group that I worked with
, so it didn't have anything todo with the information.
In fact, I found a lot of stuffin the ACE manual I would like
tell people about because Ithought it was so interesting
and you know, like I'm justinterested in stuff.
So that's why when people arelike, oh, I hate them, I hate
(11:57):
them.
I'm like why, like, they allhave good stuff and if it's
based in science, it's not justsome dude spouting out opinions,
then it's information that'svalidated as good information.
I just liked it because it hadsuch a good application for the
fitness client.
If, then right, if you have aclient that wants this, then
(12:21):
this is a part of a model youmay want to work to or through
in order to get to another levelin a model.
There was a training programmingmodel.
That made it very simple for me.
And the fact that, like, somepeople like will complain like,
oh, nasm, you stand on one leg alot, or do you know what I mean
(12:42):
?
I'm like that's just a phaseand I find that phase to be
really valuable.
It's not that we don't progressto standing on two legs and
it's not that standing on oneleg is required, but there are
so many options that I never sawin anything else that I'm like
look at the options, not look atthe dogma of you're supposed to
do this.
(13:02):
It was look at the options thatyou're given this library of
information, and if you want tofocus on muscular development,
you can focus on that.
If you want to focus on maxstrength or performance, you can
do all of those things.
But here's here's a programmingmodel that allows a wide
(13:22):
breadth of information versus.
This is what we do, and we'retrying not to pigeonhole
anything, but figure out howeverything can fit into a
systematic, progressive model oftraining.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
That was a great in-depth question.
Just that answer was just-.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I was like yeah, the question was good.
I was just like wow wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Thank you, brother, you're selling me back on the
fact that I have a NASMcertification.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, nice.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
And just full disclosure for everyone
listening.
If you do not know already, Ihave my NASM CPTA, my NASM small
group training.
I make it a thing for all mytrainers pretty much to all have
NASM.
So really big component,component, and you nailed it
right on the head.
It's not that one certificationis better.
The truth of the matter is it'swhat clientele you're working
(14:15):
with.
So we don't work with athletesalmost never right.
We work with the people comingout of physical therapy, coming
out of post rehab.
Never, uh, stepped foot in thegym before.
I'm not having these guys throwweights around trying to bench
400 pounds and that's just notwhat we're about and I really
(14:37):
yeah component of how you guysset up your step program, or so
your training program, which Ijust want you to mention briefly
with it, where it starts atfirst learning, stabilization
exercises, then moving up tomuscular endurance, then
hypertrophy, then max strength,and then, once you master all
that, then you can get intopower training.
(14:57):
So talk, work us a littlethrough that model, if you can
through that model if you can?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, so initially NASM.
So the OPT model is the modelthat we use and, interestingly,
it is an athlete training modelthat was repurposed to work with
the everyday client, so it isdesigned to work with athletes.
In fact, when it was designedby Mike Clark, who was formerly
(15:26):
the CEO of NASM, he developedthe OPT model because he created
it.
He was physical, he is aphysical therapist, got a degree
in exercise science because hewanted to figure out how to
connect these two, because whenhe was working with athletes he
was like there seems to be not agreat connection between what
the physical therapists are,have them doing and what the
(15:47):
strength and conditioning coachor the athletic trainers were
doing with them, right, so hewanted to learn the other side,
went back, got a degree, putthem together and said, okay,
this is how we're going to workwith athletes.
And he was the head physicaltherapist at the Phoenix suns
and he utilized that to helppeople like Grant Hill, who was
at one point considered thebiggest financial flop in NBA
(16:09):
history because he went toOrlando $100 million contract,
five years, got hurt, playedlike 80 games total, went to the
Phoenix Suns.
Clark fixed him up beyond whata personal trainer can do, just
as a physical therapist, butapplied the OPT model and that
(16:30):
guy became back to all starstatus again and he thought that
his career was over.
And so Phoenix became thePhoenix.
Indeed, like all these injuredathletes were like can you trade
me to Phoenix so they can fixme?
Athletes were like can youtrade me to Phoenix so they can
fix me?
And so and they did like, shaqwent there and he was so busted
and they fixed him up and heplayed solid for a while, moved
(16:52):
on to another team afterwardsand was didn't just maintain
that ability.
So what's that?
What initially was was a sevenphase model and now it's a five
phase model with the two otherphases taken out, the one at the
bottom and the one at the top.
The one at the bottom wascorrective exercise and the one
at top was power.
(17:12):
So what they did is they made afull specialization out of the
one at the bottom, which is thecorrective exercise specialist.
So they said let's take thatvery bottom one and say
corrective exercise is so deep,if a personal trainer is going
to do it, they need to havetheir own specialization.
And then they went kind of likethe NASM's comparable
(17:35):
certification to NSCA's CSCS.
They created, just with the topversion of the OPT model, the
power phase.
They created the performanceenhancement specialist and it is
very focused on the individualathlete.
So that was very, veryimportant to NASM that they're
(17:57):
not focusing on.
Here's what we do as a team, andthis is in-season, pre-season,
post-season, off-season and justthe things that we do there as
a team.
But this is what you as anathlete on this team
specifically, I'm looking at,and so it would go through like
the performance assessments andthe movement assessments and the
why.
But then it also had theprogramming.
(18:18):
Now, those two taken apart,then we're left with the CPT,
the certified personal trainersversion of the OPT model.
So that starts us off withstabilization endurance, and I
like the names of them becauseit tells you exactly what your
outcomes are.
So what do you want to focus on?
Stabilization endurance Good,we have one for that.
(18:39):
It's called stabilizationendurance.
Then there's strength endurance.
You mentioned this hypertrophywhich in the CPT seven we
changed it back to its originalname muscular development.
Then we have max strength andthen power.
So there are five phases in theCPT version of the OPT model.
(19:00):
There's a stabilization level,a strength level, a power level,
and I think detractors a lot oftimes they just don't like the
stabilization stuff, so they'llpoint at that.
But out of the three levels wehave, the strength phase has
(19:20):
these are the strength level hasthree different phases in it,
like there's more time spent inthe strength phase than any
other phase and so there's noreason to detract.
In fact I had, um, uh, anOlympian on the other day.
So bodybuilder, olympian, notlike fencing or anything like
that.
So Mr Olympia, bodybuilder,just throwing it out there, cool
, yeah, uh, andre Adams is hisname and he's he's an Olympian
(19:44):
bodybuilder.
And he said you know we'retalking, he's, he's big into
NASM, he's big into the OPTmodel and he was like you can
spend almost a full three monthsin your hypertrophy phase just
by switching up the variablesthat are already in the
hypertrophy phase.
He was like the ability to dothat and he goes.
(20:05):
But the good news is that NASMsees and a lot of other people
don't see is that you do need tocycle out of it.
But which way are you going tocycle?
You can go either way and itdoesn't matter.
You can cycle down and dostabilization and endurance and
get your joints right andprotect yourself from the big
weights you're pushing.
Or you can go into max strength.
You can get more neuralactivation.
(20:26):
Maybe some of those muscles andthose nerve, those fibers that
weren't really activating before.
You can slap them around, wakethem up, get them back down into
the hypertrophy phase and blowthem up too.
So there are a lot of optionsthere and I think that when you
get athletes that historicallyhave done the OPT model but now
(20:47):
even bodybuilders are looking atthings like the OPT model and
going man, this is great for howit supported me, the
individuals we worked withthroughout the years through the
NBA, the NFL, and NFL has beena tougher turn because they're
so traditional historically intheir training but, like the, we
are now the official, likeeducation partner of the NBA, ta
(21:12):
, the trainers association forthe NBA, same thing for the NHL.
So they're they're reallyconnected with, with us and our
products and our education,whether it's a personal training
certification.
But athletic trainers aren't somuch about the personal
training certs, they want thatPES and CES.
They're getting that andapplying that directly to the
(21:32):
athletes which are kind of thebookends to that opt model.
Where do I start them becausethey need correctives, and then
how do I finish them up to gettheir performance elevated?
And then there's a model thatconnects those two in between
yeah, it's, it's so interestingand we see it a lot.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We've mentioned the and the Andre Adams and the
traditional bodybuildingstandpoint.
You're talking from the Arnolddays, where he references that
he would snort cocaine, take ashot of tequila during his
exercises, just little thingslike that, because he thought he
was helping himself.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And now we've come to a more systematic approach to
really how to make your bodyhealthier, how to move better,
how to feel better, how to growyour muscles in the standpoint
if you're looking for that andit's laid out pretty nicely
through that opt model- yeah,agreed, agreed, and you know,
like, is it possible that youknow some of those things that
(22:35):
that Arnold did back in the daywere good and some of those
things that they did were bad,and a lot of times, here's the
thing is that, like many times,athletes and bodybuilders and
others they almost don't careabout the path getting there, as
long as it gets the outcome,and that's with anybody really
(22:56):
looking to succeed, whether it'sthe Tour de France, you know
what I mean.
Like there are a lot of thingsthat people want to know how
they can enhance performance.
From our perspective, how canwe do that?
By getting the body to workbetter without adding the
external things that are goinginto it.
(23:18):
So, as a professional, what dowe do?
We work with the body, and howdo I get the body to maximize
performance in ways that we can?
When it comes to, like, throughmovement, how can I get
movement to maximize performance?
And that's really what theentire book of NASM is, sans the
(23:40):
certified nutrition specialistthat they came out with last
year.
That's been crushing it.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I don't want you to talk too much about that,
because I have specificquestions about that one.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and I don't know a lot about it yet like I'm
actually taking it right now,but I haven't gone through the
entire course yet it's a verybasic question.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I'll just ask you right now go for it through
basic certifications.
I know nasm does it, I know acmdoes it.
They're very against teachingdiet and or nutrition, however
you want to call it, whereasthey want to leave that to
professionals, aka registereddietitians, because they have
licensure through differentstates and the federal
(24:24):
government.
So walk us through where thatcertification A lies or what the
scope of the trainer should bewhen it comes to nutrition yeah,
that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So a few uh decade or more ago, john berardi really
flipped this on his head, sohe's a precision nutrition guy
and his book right now.
Yeah, yeah.
So and here's what happened.
When I first started probablyyou too we were told at New York
(24:57):
Sports Club that I worked withat the time don't even mention
the word nutrition, don'tsuggest anything.
Now, what had happened is thatone of the gyms in New York City
, a woman asked her trainer whatdo I need to do?
What supplement should I take?
He took her to a supplementstore and said this is what you
(25:21):
should take.
And he gives her a bunch ofthings, and ephedra was on one
of those and she ended up takingthat.
She had an underlying conditionand she died.
So the store got sued, thetrainer got sued, the company
got sued.
Um, the, the fitness company,got sued.
It was a huge industry thing andall of a sudden, everything's
(25:43):
off the shelves, nobody sellingbars or like there was nothing.
You can get anything.
And slowly they would startcoming in.
You know, places like dot fitwere like it's okay, these are
okay to have, and, and theystarted building that and people
started bringing in supplements, but nobody talked about diet,
nobody talked about anything.
Now, what we're looking at, andJohn Berardi flipped that and
(26:07):
NASM went in and said well, weneed to speak to this as well,
because clearly there's a marketfor it.
And so they got some of theabsolute, like most incredible
subject matter experts innutrition and researchers, and
they had them put togethercontent.
So they were assigned theseconcepts and then they developed
(26:31):
.
It was really beautifully done.
So what can they talk about?
You can talk about nutrition,but you can't.
You can, and whether or notthose things are happening if
you have somebody with apathology so, for instance, I'm
(26:56):
type 2 diabetic.
So a trainer talking to meabout nutrition like you have to
be, you have to be out of yourmind like this is not a
conversation for you to behaving with me.
I need to be having thisconversation with a registered
dietitian, not even myendocrinologist, because she
doesn't even know that muchabout nutrition.
You know what I mean.
Like the registered dietitian,their job is almost exclusively
(27:20):
and we think, oh, maybe thatweight loss, weight loss, yeah,
that's nice.
They deal with that almostexclusively, working with people
that have pathologies and howtheir diet plays into that.
Like that's what they go toschool, that's why they get paid
, that's why they went to schoolfor so long, and master's
(27:41):
degree and fellowships beforethey even sit down and can have
their first client.
That's not underneath somebodyelse that is going with it.
It's a deep field.
What can we talk about?
Macros, micros, you know, withthat, like vitamins and minerals
, what?
What did they do?
What did they mean?
How does this food affect ourbody?
What can I relate this to?
Pathology without telling youwhat to eat?
(28:03):
Yes, but if you have apathology, the first thing I do
is send you off to somebody else, because I'm not like.
Talking about nutrition in ageneral way is very important.
The other thing about thiscourse is it's not so much about
telling people what to do,because that's not what coaching
is.
Coaching is a guide that allowssomebody else to maximize their
(28:27):
output.
So I'm a huge football fan,college football Specifically.
I grew up in Alabama.
I've been living in New Yorkfor 20 years, but listen you
grew up in Alabama, it's.
Alabama, auburn or out.
So I was a big Alabama fanstill am to this day.
And Nick Saban we talk abouthim like people love to make fun
(28:48):
of him because he's always sostoic, and the great thing about
great coaches is they'll giveabout him Like.
People love to make fun of himbecause he's always so stoic and
uh.
But the great thing about greatcoaches is you know they'll
give guidelines but somebodyelse has to execute it.
So how do I teach somebody toexecute?
How do I coach them to execute?
Not tell them what to do, likethat's not the goal.
The goal was to get somebody askill set and a perspective that
(29:12):
allows them to executeappropriately, and that's
coaching.
And that's a huge part of thecertified nutrition coach isn't
just the data on nutrition, butit's on coaching.
And I think that, my friend, iskey to behavior change to
(29:32):
behavior change.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
A client-centric approach tonutrition is the best way to
kind of underline, educate theperson about it and give them
the tools they need to maketheir own decisions and live
their own life.
It kind of goes back hand inhand with exercising.
It's the same thing.
Personally, as a trainer, thelast thing I want and this may
sound counterproductive to someof you trainers listening to
(29:54):
this, or clients but I wantevery single one of my clients
to know as much as me or morethan me.
The last thing I want is to notto withhold information because
I'm afraid that that client'snot no longer going to need me.
That is not why I'm a trainer.
I want everyone to knoweverything.
(30:16):
I want you to be.
The biggest compliment I've gotis I've had two clients now
become trainers and that is hugein my eyes.
Yeah, yeah.
So what?
Work us through that?
The coaching side of being atrainer, teaching people and how
, as trainers, we should pullaway from that stigma of, hey,
(30:38):
let's just withhold informationto make money, because it's a
hard field to get into.
Work us through this.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I hate that so much.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
All right, so I'm going to have to go back through
.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Let me find something I said recently but it bothered
me so so much.
I remember when I was inmassage therapy school and I was
talking about foam rolling andthe massage therapists were like
no, I would never tell them tofoam roll.
And I was like why?
And they were like then theywon't need us.
And I was like, are you out ofyour mind?
(31:10):
I said the reason I went intomassage therapy school is
because the things that foamrolling can't do right, like
there's so many things that youcan't do to loosen your own
muscles up and to prep.
I said that bothers me so muchthat you are so concerned with
that that that you decide not toeven teach somebody some
(31:35):
self-efficacy.
And I think that that's one ofthe big things when it comes to
personal training is that youshould be teaching self-efficacy
.
You should be teaching peoplehow to move on their own and how
to progress.
And the truth of the matter is Ihave a lot of clients that
(31:55):
don't need me.
They just continue to use me,right, because I've taught them
the things that they need to doto be successful and they have
taken that.
But they still want me to trainthem because they think that me
training them.
They get more out of it, andmaybe that's right.
Maybe they do.
I sure get more out of workingwith other people than if it's
(32:17):
just me working out on my own.
So what should you do as apersonal trainer?
I mean ultimately even as amassage therapist, and when they
say, you know how often shouldI come in, I'm like when you're
ready, right, like if you wantto keep coming in, and keep
coming in if you're not hurtanymore.
Don't come in If, as a trainer,we're either getting to your
goals or we're not getting toyour goals.
(32:38):
So we need to do one of twothings we need to switch our
goals, or you need to switchyour trainer and and and or
change your perspective, right,because sometimes the goals and
the outcomes just aren't withinthe realm of what's achievable.
So, with that being said, I justwant to teach people how to,
how to move and be active ontheir own.
(32:59):
And when they're active, Iwould like for their movement to
be better than it would havebeen if they didn't move, if
they didn't come and see me.
But the truth of the matter isand I mentioned this early on
like my ultimate goal these daysare just to get people to be
more active and through myeducation with NASM, I can work
(33:21):
to get you more active.
Hopefully, my work with NASMallows you to move better whilst
being active, and that's whereI think we need to direct our
clients.
Yeah, definitely Just kind ofgetting up moving, giving them
the tools they need being.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
That's where I think we need to direct our clients.
Yeah, definitely, Just kind ofgetting up moving, giving them
the tools they need, being thatresource.
That's what podcasting is about, is it not 100%?
Here's a free resource foreveryone in the world to listen
to and go on with their days andtake that admission and use it.
I know you asked me a littlebit pre-show.
(33:55):
You wanted me to give youquestions about the good, the
bad, about NASM, what I thought.
I actually decided that I'm notgoing to do that, but instead
I'm going to ask you those samequestions.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I want you to work us through what you think is the
best part about it, what do youthink is the worst part about it
?
And ultimately, I know we'reboth going to be on the same
page.
That why everyone should notonly look into different
certifications because everysingle one of them is different.
A lot of them just fulldisclosure, like not even going
to mention names.
But there's certain certs thatyou take your test online and
(34:33):
you can copy paste from a friend, and NASM is not one of those.
So one of the main reasons Ilike NASM because it actually
has a really good exam structureto it.
But work us through why youlove it, what maybe they need to
improve on for the future, whatmaybe is coming, go for it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think one big thing to talk about here is the
accreditation process and a lotall the certifications that are
the big ones that you know ofthe ACSMs, nscas, ace, those
that they're all part of theNCCA accreditation.
So what that means is that wenow have and NASM is a part of
(35:12):
that right, like you, there areguidelines, there are rules that
you have to abide by if you'regoing to produce content.
So there's no way to do a copyand paste.
They put in you know, thesehave to be proctored
examinations.
For the ones that areaccredited certifications,
they're proctored, they aresourced not through just the
(35:37):
company but the people who arein the field.
So NASM flew a bunch of peopleout to Ascend Learning owns NASM
.
They flew them out to KansasCity and they said, hey, what
are the topics that our trainersneed to know?
And you write the questions.
And then they took a four hourworkshop on question writing.
So you have to not only do that, but you have to write
(35:59):
questions in a way that um, that, uh.
So here's one of the examplesthe, the people that are
teaching the workshop don't knowanything about fitness and
they'd walk up and they'd readquestions and the, the multiple
choice answers and they'd go, oh, the answer is D.
And they're like how did youknow that?
And they would just say,because of everything else had
(36:20):
this, but this one was anoutlier, so it had to be the
right one.
And they were like that's crazy, that you would know that.
So, uh, a lot of people thatare good at test taking don't
even have to know what thecontent is and they could pass a
test.
So they taught you how to teach, how to ask questions, how to
put the answers in.
There are a lot of things inthe accreditation process that
(36:43):
legitimize these accreditations.
So when you get accredited,then that is a big deal, and
what accreditation did wasallowed the industry to move
forward in regulating itselfversus what states like Maryland
have brought into legislationmultiple times, which is making
(37:05):
fitness a license, and eachstate license you as a fitness
professional.
Well then the variety in thefield starts to go away, because
everybody has to align with.
This is what the stateorganization tells you that you
need to learn.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know that happened in New.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
York right, I think they proposed it in New York as
well.
So what happened?
Because nothing was accredited.
Ihrsa, which is kind of likethe non-regulating regulating
body of the fitness industry,goes we can do this, we don't
need your interference.
We, as an industry and so thebig names and the big certs, all
kind of pooled resource, pooledcontent and worked together to
(37:48):
find accreditation that allowedus to all move forward without
the state telling us and that'sfor any state that you're in
telling you this is how you needto teach and you get a state
license.
Now I have a license in massagetherapy, so I went to school,
so your different schools canteach different topics, but you
all have like a state licensethat you would need to get and
(38:10):
then you register again andagain every few years.
So same thing like, if you wantto keep your, your
certification, you have to goback and do continuing education
in order to maintain yourcertification.
And I'm I'm a big fan ofcontinuing education and I've
had.
I've had trainers tell me uh,and cause they want to work at
(38:32):
my gym.
So I own several gyms in NewYork city and they say how can I
train my clients at your gym?
And I said, yeah, just give meyour.
I need several things from you,including CPR, aed
certification.
I need your, uh, nationallyaccredited certification and um,
you know, insurance, andthere's a whole list of things
that I that I get from them.
(38:53):
And they'll say, oh, I, uh, Idon't believe in certifications.
I got them for years.
I've been certified for a longtime.
I let them lapse, is it okay?
And I was like, yeah, man, yeah, I'm just gonna.
You are barking up the wrongtree with this guy, right, like
for for somebody to say howsmart they are, that they don't
need continuing education orcertification.
I'm like, well, at that point,I don't know how smart you are,
(39:17):
because you don't have anyinformation that tells me you've
accomplished anything, just anego that tells me you're smarter
than everybody else.
That does.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'll just throw in, I'll just make a perfect example
for you.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Do it.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Something I still see in gyms nowadays is everyone's
still doing lat pull downsbehind the neck, like that's
been not a thing for 10, 15years, and people are still
doing it, and they're watchingthe older folks do it, because
they're bodybuilders and it'sjust like that is so bad for
your cervical spine.
Come on Like this.
(39:51):
No, stop so please.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, you know what?
It's funny too.
Like there are some people I'veseen and they look so good on
Instagram doing behind the headpull downs, and then they'll say
things like we were told not todo this and I was like, well,
you can do it.
You're the only person I'veseen whose head didn't jump
forward and your arms didn't goin a weird position, like there
(40:15):
are outliers that can do thingsthat other people can't do.
But as a general rule, I wantto know why you're doing it.
Like, why are you doing it?
And if you think it's becauseyou get better activation in
that position, that's not true.
All you're doing is juttingyour head forward, shrugging
your shoulders and pulling yourarms into a closed pack position
(40:36):
at your shoulders.
That doesn't allow for reallyfreedom of movement.
So why do you do what you do?
And some people, like this guythat I saw on Instagram he was
fantastic, he's legitimatelylike he can do that.
If I watch some people that dosnatches, uh, and they land in a
deep squat position and theirback is arched and their arms
(40:57):
are pulled back way farther thanthey would be in a behind the
head, the lat pull down withtheir arms way back, and I'm
like you know what that moves,not for everybody either.
Is it okay that people thatsnatch put their arms in that
position?
Yeah, because that's what asnatch is.
And what do you want to getbetter?
You want to get better atsnatches, but nobody says, yeah,
I just want to get really goodat behind the neck lat pull
(41:20):
downs because it's a thing.
No, you need to have a betterreason why, and a lot of times
their reason, which is oh, it'sreally good for engaging the
lats, it's not as ideal in latengagement, so your reason
doesn't match the outcome and weneed to be aware of that.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Oh yeah, you pretty much summed it.
So just real quick because Idon't want to start wrapping up
is what's something you wouldpush towards?
Not bad, but just what do youthink the direction NASM and
other search should take to helpbetter the field?
Speaker 2 (41:56):
I think that there's there's a divide between
education and application, andNASM recognizes this, because
the OPT model is education abouthow to apply, and yet we still
find in the industry that peoplethat are NASM certified still
(42:17):
have a hard time understandinghow to apply something that even
as educators, we look at it andwe're like I mean it's like
written out for you, somethingthat even as educators, we look
at it and we're like and thenit's like written out for you,
and so there's a disconnectstill on what the application is
for some like a training model.
Do I know how to answer thatquestion?
The truth of the matter is Idon't.
(42:38):
I do what do you get?
What do you get?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
So that's actually something that I've mentioned
before and I love how that waswhat you picked, because that's
my exact answer.
Like, that was my exact issueof what I think everyone should
do For your tests.
Instead of making it where youpass a pen and paper test, have
a practical component withtrusted organizations where
people have to do a certainamount of application, shadowing
(43:02):
hours in order to be able totake the exam.
So we did this.
In college, we had anunaccredited personal training
course where we took classes andthen we had workshops on top of
the classes.
So we had a practical exam pluswe had a written exam.
So we were able to take both.
And that understanding knowledgeis different than actually
applying it.
And we were able to take both.
And that understandingknowledge is different than
(43:24):
actually applying it.
And we will apply it in apractical.
I think it's something thatcould easily be done.
I know Nazism is a hugeorganization, but if they took
gyms and accredited gyms like,say, I had someone like you
who's super knowledgeable andsay, hey, you know, redefine
fitness, we got you.
Guys, you know what you'retalking about.
This is the steps we're lookingfor.
(43:45):
This is what I want you to doand you have to pass these
trainers in order to qualifythem for the written exam.
Boom.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
So, when it comes to accreditation, that's not
something that you can do.
And unfortunately, this is wherethe hands are tied in many
instances, because how can Icreate equity with people who
don't have gyms, that that isaccessible to them, and there
(44:15):
are a lot of places where that'snot accessible.
Also, we've even done thingswith internships and they call
them gym internships and a lotof times, even the people in the
gym internship aren't teachingNASM information, so we can't
get somebody else to to do that,and so what happens is it's
kind of like.
It's kind of like.
(44:37):
I mean, even today, like mydoctorate and my master's degree
, I did it online.
So when I go to school and havesomebody like teach me this is
how you apply it, it's for me tofigure that out.
And also, when you go and youlearn this information, if you
want to get a job, the hope isthat, like, your job is the
(44:58):
onsite education, uh, andexperience and application, your
education is trying to figureout how do I create something
with that?
And that's part of theaccreditation process.
So we can't accredit people bydoing that and would that be a
great idea?
Yeah, man, like I would neversay that that's a bad idea.
(45:22):
It'd be a brilliant idea.
It's just it is legend, right,like it's so big, it's so
(45:48):
massive that it's not somethingthat that we can do.
Nasm Podcast Network, wherethere are four different
podcasts that you can go to andthat you can be like all right,
here's my ongoing continuingeducation.
Continuing education not, youdon't get CECs for it, but
here's your continuing educationthat you can go and learn and
and figure out, like what aresome of the means that I can
(46:10):
apply these things versus here'smy textbook, here's maybe an
online course, and after thatit's done like we don't have
anything else to provide you.
You are, on your own, kickedout of the nest and these ways
through the podcasts.
So not just mine, but manyother people.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
What's yours, just for our?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
audience.
I have the NASM CPT podcast soCertified Personal Trainer
podcast and the cool thing isthat it's not just about NASM.
So I don't just talk about whatNASM talks about.
I go through and I findresearch that's interesting.
I'm a business owner.
You want to learn about openingyour own gym or how to build
your business or what's a socialmedia strategy you can employ.
(46:52):
I talk about that Like thereare a lot of things because I
wear a lot of hats in theindustry that I can speak to
from my experience and I love it.
I have guests on that can speakfrom research.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
And I love it.
I have guests on that can speakfrom research, so I like to
have people on that are work inresearch or work in a clinic
that allow us to learn from them.
As a last point, I think thehardest part about being a
trainer and I mentioned thisduring every interview is it's a
lot like being a real estateagent, and I'm going to
reference that because that'ssomething I did pre being a
trainer.
It's one of the hardest careersbecause A of the way that you
(47:42):
get paid, b you're.
There's two most valuableassets we have in our lives it's
our homes and it's our bodies.
So it takes us a lot to trustsomebody to sell or work with
that entity, whether it is yourhouse or whether it is yourself.
So, as a trainer, not havingthat understanding of how to get
(48:05):
somebody to trust you to workwith them because they're, but
they only have one body that'ssomething that a lot of trainers
struggle with is building yourclientele.
They might know everything, butthe sales aspect is foreign to
them.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So I think it's important to like to talk about
sales in the fitness industryand to let people know that you
could be a very educated trainerand you could be a very
experienced and apt trainer.
But if nobody knows that nobodybuys it, then then you're
really good at doing nothingbecause you can't provide it to
(48:42):
anybody and sales is a part ofthat process.
And sales is a part of thatprocess.
Marketing is a part of thatprocess.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's something we talk about
another time.
But, rick, I want you to wrapthis thing up.
Give us this last minute sum up, everything we spoke about
about NASM, about yourself.
Just gives us a summary and thelast take home message.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, lifelong learner.
So just get out there and keeplearning.
Do I want you to learn throughNASM 100%?
Do I want you to learn anyway,100%?
So get out there and build youreducation and learn and want to
learn, and one of the greatways that you can want to learn
if you're like I want to learn,but I don't right, because, like
(49:23):
I want to play guitar, I justdon't want to learn how to do it
, so I just want to be able to.
So what are the things that youdo?
Well, one thing that I did is Igot a ukulele over here.
So, like I'm taking small stepsto learn how to do things that
I want to do that I don't wantto spend time doing, and so now
I can play, you are my sunshine.
(49:43):
So, with that being said, likegetting out there and learn a
little bit, like just findsomething that you're interested
in, even if it's not fitness,because I think wanting to learn
, learning, reading, consuminginformation has, as researcher
in psychology, barbaraFredrickson talks about, upward
spirals.
(50:04):
It, uh, you build on thingsthat you're good at and you let
that expand to other things, andI think if we spent more time,
uh, creating that around who weare and what we want to do, then
that would start making its way, would creep its way into so
many other aspects of our lives,with work, with our family,
(50:27):
with our interactions withothers, with our learning, with
our education, and so just beinga part of that upward spiral
when it comes to self-betterment, and that applies to our
fitness as well.
So if I can do that with myselfand I can get my clients to
find something that they likenot bring in a man and just find
a bunch of things that theydon't like, but I've decided
(50:49):
that's what's good for youphysically, but mentally it's
not sitting well, they hatedoing it Then I can bring them
in and I can say what do youwant to do today?
And that used to be the worstthing.
I could hear you say what doyou want to do today?
Because to me that meant youdidn't put a program together.
Now it means you're actuallyinterested in what somebody else
is wanting to do, as long asyou still put a program together
(51:10):
for them.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Absolutely Couldn't agree more on that one.
And then last question wherecan people find you, get a hold
of you?
They want to learn more.
We know you host the NASM CPTpodcast, which I highly
recommend everybody listen to,but which I highly recommend
everybody listen to.
But where else can people getahold of you, Rick?
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, so I'm on social.
I'm mostly available onInstagram at drrickrichey
R-I-C-K-R-I-C-H-E-Y, or you canhit me up on my email,
rickrichey at nasmorg.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
And thank you guys for joining us on this week's
episode of Health and FitnessRedefined.
Don't forget, hit thatsubscribe button and join us
next week as we dive deeper intothis ever-changing field.
And remember fitness is ajourney, not a destination.
Until next time.
For us, we know what it's liketo feel unhealthy, depressed and
(52:02):
downright defeated.
We want to show others there isa right way and through fitness
you can do anything you setyour mind to.
Fitness can give you thatmotivation, confidence, energy
you need to bridge that mentalgap and prevent you from missing
important life events.
We understand it's aboutfeeling better, living longer
(52:27):
and being good examples for ourkids.
We understand this because welive it and for us, that's the
Redefined Difference.
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