May 29, 2025 • 43 mins
Feeling like you're just watching your life go by instead of living it? That profound sense of disengagement could be your hormones.
Hormone specialist Erin Tongue, APRN, shares her journey into hormone optimization that began with witnessing her husband's transformation after testosterone therapy. Despite being told by multiple endocrinologists that his levels were "normal," his life changed dramatically once those levels were optimized. This experience mirrors what many patients face: suffering with symptoms while being told everything is "fine" because they fall within broad laboratory ranges.
For women, low testosterone manifests uniquely—not just affecting libido, but creating a pervasive disconnect from daily life. "Women will say 'I have nothing to be depressed about, but I don't want to engage with my kids or family activities,'" Erin explains. This unexplained withdrawal often leads to misdiagnoses of depression when the real culprit is hormonal imbalance. Meanwhile, women struggle to build muscle despite consistent workouts, unaware that optimal testosterone levels are essential for changing body composition.
Emily and Erin discuss birth control's widespread impact on women's health. These medications suppress natural hormone production, affecting everything from muscle strength to metabolism and mood. Many women remain on birth control into their forties, experiencing thyroid suppression and testosterone deficiency without realizing the connection to their symptoms.
Whether you're battling unexplained fatigue, struggling with weight loss resistance, or feeling disconnected from your life, understanding how each hormone—testosterone, thyroid, progesterone, and estradiol—affects specific aspects of your wellbeing could be the missing piece. Don't settle for being told you're "normal" when you don't feel your best. Connect with a provider who understands the difference between normal and optimal hormone levels, and experience what true hormone balance feels like.
Feeling Out Of Balance? Take my FREE Hormone Assessment & checkout my FREE resources at
gogetemcoach.com/links
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to Health Hormones and Done With
Dieting.
I'm your host, emily Murphy.
Thank you for joining us, andtoday we have a special guest,
erin Tong, aprn.
She works at a hormonespecialty clinic in Orlando and
we have met and had some greatconversations and I'm happy to
have her on the podcast today.
(00:23):
Thank you, erin, for coming andlet everybody know a little bit
about yourself and yourbackground.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Awesome.
Thank you, emily, for having me.
I am very happy to be here.
Yeah, I actually got intohormones from pediatrics and
there was not a big jump.
Yeah, it wasn't direct, it wasvery indirect.
But actually what happened wasmy husband got treated for
hormone replacement and when Isaw the change in him, that's
(00:52):
when, like this light bulb wentoff in my head I was like, oh my
gosh, what is this?
And immediately I was like,okay, this is what I want to do
and I just I just changedeverything and I just started
going after some clinicals thatwere in you know the wellness
space.
And then eventually, I justchanged everything and I just
started going after someclinicals that were in you know
the wellness space.
And then eventually I gotmyself on hormones about three
and a half years ago, and Iremember thinking I don't need
(01:14):
hormones, I'm great.
I mean, I'm in good shape, Ieat well.
And then, of course, I took myhormones and I was like, how
would I live without them?
This is spectacular.
So yeah, it was just watchingpersonal transformation, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And so many people, providers, that I know, nobody
just goes.
I want to do hormones.
It's usually from this personalexperience where I mean same
for me, that it had theevolution of your wellness
journey and all of a sudden, youknow, someone you know or
yourself, starts not feeling thebest and there are not answers
(01:48):
in traditional medicine for you.
You know, it's like all of asudden, one day you're feeling a
little older and and you maynot, you weren't, you didn't
recognize yet that that that wasyou, but you, we all kind of
have that shift and then youstart feeling good again and
you're like oh, how did you know?
How did I know I wasn't feelinga hundred percent anymore,
(02:10):
cause we don't right.
It's funny like having whenwe're talking about dosing
hormones and today, guys, we'regoing to talk a lot about
testosterone and all thehormones probably we'll get to
in this short amount of timejust little snippets and then
we'll have Aaron back.
But we want to focus ontestosterone today because that
is well one.
It's where your husband started, I'm sure too, and the change
(02:32):
that happened there.
For us women it can take acombination of, you know, quite
a few different hormones to getus back, but for men it's going
to be, you know the bigtestosterone and um, and let's
talk about the difference.
Uh, I guess you know in in whatpeople, how they might be
living and feeling and thattransformation that does happen
(02:56):
going on on hormones andtestosterone replacement therapy
specifically.
So are you okay talking aboutyeah, husband stuff, absolutely,
absolutely.
We could talk about mine too.
I always do.
If you've been listening here,you know about us and our
relationship and everythingalready and I know now about it
too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So this is good.
But uh, yeah, I would say uhfor my husband in particular.
I mean, he was in hismid-irties and the main symptom
that presented for him was justsuppression and he would just
have these things where he'd belike, listen, I'm in that funk
again and I'm like, what are youtalking about?
And you know, for us in our midthirties we just weren't
(03:36):
introduced to hormones.
We didn't even know this was apotential issue.
He went to three differentendocrinologists that were all
like you're fine, you're in thenormal range, and if you know
anything about the range oftestosterone for a man, oh yeah,
let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Tell everybody about the range.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I want to say 200 to 900.
Let me just give you a roughrange.
My husband, I think, was aboutone no, I'm sorry like 199 or
200.
Like he was just right on thatborder and the guy was like
you're good, you're low, butyou're and of course we know low
.
I mean that you could be cryingin the corner for the rest of
(04:13):
your life at that number, Likethat's, you can't do anything at
that number.
But again, right, endocrinology, conventional medicine, you're
good, you're fine, like it'sjust low, but you've got this.
But when we moved to Floridafrom New York and we actually
found a hormone provider, theywere like, oh yeah, that's a low
(04:34):
number.
You'd probably feel better ifit were closer to 900.
Well, what a, what an amazingidea.
And sure enough, the minute hestarted taking it.
Granted, at the beginning thosedosages were a little bit too
low, at least from what I knownow.
Yeah, but change right.
It was like night and day.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
People don't realize depression is one of the
symptoms of low hormone andspecifically low testosterone.
I don't know if men communicateit very well by the time they
get to us.
They're usually it's beenrecognized, usually by the wife,
right, and they are sendingthem to us cause they're feeling
(05:13):
better.
That's how a lot of malepatients come to us.
But when things start to feelbetter and they come out of like
, for women I call it like thefog right, where they've just
been in this haziness and notsure what's wrong.
It's almost like an out of bodyexperience.
You're like.
That used to be how I felt andnow every day I try to you know,
(05:34):
manage what is a totallydifferent experience.
You know, in this body, in thesame body.
But for men, I don't think theyput it together as much as say
and say, like you know, I feeldepressed and that could be
coming from my body, not mybrain, right?
Even though we knowtestosterone and the hormones
affect the brain, but these arelow levels in the whole body and
(05:58):
not in it's.
It's hard to explain if you, ifyou haven't experienced it, or
you may be sitting therethinking and feeling.
This could be me, this could bemy spouse.
This could be.
You know what we'reexperiencing as we.
You know what you said mid-30s.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and even earlier.
You know I mean everybody's sodifferent.
You know so many endocrinedisruptors and different
circumstances right as to what'sgoing on in your life.
So I think if I could just makea general recommendation, I
would say if you're in your late20s, early 30s, just get a
baseline, just see where you'reat, because you might be
(06:36):
surprised at how low somethingis which could directly relate
to a symptom that you can'treally find resolution to.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right that you may have to deal with for 10, 15, 20
years before somebody says youknow this could be a problem and
you realize it's a problem.
It's been a problem your wholelife, which is what happened to
me, I feel like, with my thyroid.
You know, only treating it inthe last five years, after
figuring out the symptoms andknowing what I know now, I would
have benefited from thyroidhormone for the last 20 years.
(07:06):
I mean, it changed my wholelife, the way my body worked,
everything, and I didn'tprobably need testosterone back
then.
But it was the same thing withme too.
With testosterone, with addingprogesterone.
We have I mean, we have youngwomen on progesterone therapy,
teenage girls, early 20s, and wehave guys, men on in clomiphene
(07:28):
or testosterone therapy thatare, they're young, their levels
shouldn't be bottomed out, andthey are and you know they were.
Some of us came just running abaseline, just like you talked
about to own, to find that theywere way lower than they should
have been.
And when you put the piecestogether and you talk about the
symptoms and what's going onit's like all these aha moments
(07:50):
and light bulbs going off yousee somebody start to put it
together that this has been theproblem.
Now, why is it the problem?
Like you said, we don't I meanwe don't know we could go chase
that rabbit all the way down thehole right.
Why is all of our you knowhormone?
Why are all of them low atcertain times For men right?
Endocrine disruptors,fragrances, environmental toxins
(08:14):
, food we eat, lack of sunlight,lack of sleep, too much screen
time all the things right.
And you could do all the thingsright and still have issues.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We don't know why.
Yes, definitely I say, emily,the thing that I want to bring
up for women that are listeningtoo, I think with men, yes, we
tend to see it present asdepression or maybe just lack of
strength or maybe lack ofmotivation, but women, I feel as
though it presents more likethis I really am just not
(08:47):
wanting to participate in life.
It's like they've reallystepped back, they're kind of
watching their life go by andthey said they just feel like
they're not even in their bodyanymore.
They're like right, like such aan observer, but just not
wanting to engage.
And and I really think it's aform of depression.
And a lot of women say I knowI'm not depressed, but I want to
(09:11):
say nothing's wrong, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
They know that things aren't wrong enough, that they
should be happy, they shouldhave gratitude, they should be
able to enjoy their life, butthey can't on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah totally, and they women will say that exact
sentence to me.
They're like I have nothing tobe depressed about.
I don't know why I don't wantto engage with my kids, why I
don't want to engage in my youknow family activities.
But I I don't, or you know, orI don't want to go to work
anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I just don't feel like you know, and it's all
these things they love.
It's like they've lost thiszest for life, right, right, yes
, I remember before I went onhormones and when I was looking
for answers and I was put onbirth control, um, I was told it
wouldn't matter if we tested myhormones because they were
always changing.
My OBGYN told me that and shesaid you know, let's try this
(10:01):
birth, birth control, this willeven you out.
And it did not even anything outit put me in a rage where my
hair was falling out and myfamily couldn't live with me,
and then my primary care put meon an antidepressant,
anti-anxiety.
So in this you know where I'mtrying to figure out what's
going on and why I'm feeling theway.
(10:22):
I'm feeling one of the biggestthings that I've never talked
about or really explained andyou said this and it reminded me
.
I used to just see my texts onmy phone, whether it was, hey,
do you want to come bring thekids and do this?
Or hey, I have a new client foryou.
Or hey, I'm interested in yourprogram, can you call me back
(10:44):
and give me some information.
It didn't matter if it wasfamily, friends, leads for my
business.
I would just put the phone backdown and say, like, I'll get to
that later.
I just had no oomph to evenanswer somebody about hey, let's
get together for a play date,and I would put things off and
my anxiety would grow because Ifelt like I was letting people
(11:07):
down or I was withdrawing.
It was the weirdest, like thisnegative feedback loop that I
was stuck in, where I wascausing myself more anxiety from
not taking action and doing thethings.
But I could, I couldn't get upand do the things.
I couldn't even answer textmessages.
It was like that was too much,because the planning, the next
step of whatever I had to do,led to the next thing and I knew
(11:30):
I wasn't going to have theenergy for it, so just like,
okay, that's, I'm not going todeal with that.
Now, like two weeks later, Irun into somebody and they're
like I text you and I would feelso bad.
It was just part of what, likethis darkness in this cloud that
I couldn't figure out and Icouldn't explain.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, yes and again, I think testosterone is the
number one reason why women endup going on an antidepressant
falsely, you know, incorrectly,yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And we see that all the time, people that come into
practice, that are on, they'reon birth control, they're on
SSRI, they're on birth control,they're on SSRI, antidepressant,
anti-anxiety.
It's all paired together andthey're a mess and they're
(12:17):
wondering what's going on,because these are the answers
that they've gotten from theirdoctor and they've been told
that everything's normal,correct.
Another thing is being able tochange body composition, being
able to preserve the lean musclemass that you have, or actually
change your body and put someon.
I mean, this is so hard withouttestosterone.
You want to talk about that alittle?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh yeah, I will tell you, I was a figure skater for
most of my life.
I didn't know that about you,yes, yes, and I taught
professionally figure skatingfor about 15 years.
So I mean, even you know, latetwenties, early thirties, I was
still needing to use my bodyvery physically and I noticed,
(12:58):
like as I got older, how hard itwas to continue teaching, how
hard it was to continuechoreographing programs, and the
amount of strength that stilltook to do that.
And now that I am ontestosterone, I would say I mean
, this sounds crazy, but I feellike I can not work out for
maybe two, three, four days Notthat I like to do that and the
(13:19):
muscle mass remains and you'relike what the heck?
This is like never before.
So it's just like a goodexample of wow, it is
maintaining, it's holding itthere, and so, yeah, I don't
know what else you would like to, what direction you want to go
with that.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, you and you are an athlete, so you understand
you probably, you know, had somemuscle already because you've
worked your life.
And me too, I had put on muscleat a very young age playing
softball.
Then I competed in bodybuildingand figure.
For five years I was always inthe gym, always pushing heavy
weights, doing way too much, youknow, and breaking my body down
(13:58):
.
From what I know now, I wasover training, um, but the, the
average woman who is now gettinginto weightlifting at 40 years
old is looking at wanting to gettoned.
That's the vision for everybody.
Right, they want, and which isawesome, because we don't have a
lot of people I don't haveanybody coming to me that ever
(14:20):
says I just want to be skinny,right, people, women want to
look toned, they want to lookmuscular, they, they like that.
When I was doing that, um, youknow, in the early two thousands
, uh, it wasn't really a, itwasn't a thing.
I mean I stood out in withother people, you know I was
okay in the gym and then if Ileft, if I was in a group of
(14:41):
normal people, I, I look, I was140 pounds, I looked huge, um,
standing next to a girl that was140 pounds without muscle and
uh, but now this is what.
This is a trend and it's anawesome trend and and women want
it and they work so hard, theycut their calories and they're
not putting on muscle andthey're very, um, frustrated by
(15:03):
it.
They're not.
Their bodies aren't changingLike they see the girls on
Instagram or you know, and youshouldn't compare yourself, but
you know the social media andthe stuff is out there, right,
and you may be doing the sameworkouts, maybe a coach is
giving them to you, you'refollowing a trainer and your
body isn't changing the way youwant it to change, and this
could be because yourtestosterone levels are low.
(15:26):
And yeah, and we see it with mentoo.
I have men coming to us for thesame reasons.
Right, if their testosterone isin the lower ranges, they can't
lose weight, they can't changetheir body composition.
This is where that you know,dad bod comes from, right, in
air quotations.
But the you know, the biggerbelly, the softer shoulders and
(15:49):
chest right, which is oppositethan you know if somebody you
think high testosterone right,Broad shoulders, tapered waist
not that everybody has to besuper chiseled like that, but in
general, right, the shapes thatwe are talking about are
influenced by hormones, andeither you know healthy levels
of them or unhealthy levels ofthem.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, and you put such a good point Body
composition.
That is, I think, the thingthat I can visually see.
There's men that that will comein and start testosterone, and
women too, of course.
I'm just saying, with men itseems to be more of a visual.
You can really see a changewith them if they, if they are,
you know, softer in terms of themuscular presentation, if they
come in even five or six weekslater and they, they haven't
(16:32):
exercised, they haven't changedanything but add testosterone,
their body has changed.
You can visually see the shapechange and they may not have
lost weight or the weight hasremained the same.
But you're right, thecomposition different, right,
they do look different and theymight be doing more, more energy
, even if they're just doingmore around the house.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Right, Even those little non-exercise calories
that we build up during the day.
Right, Just because you havemore energy.
They say, even fidgeting rightBurns more calories and, you
know, helps your metabolism morethan somebody who just sits
still because you have no energy.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, so and energy.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
this leads us right into energy.
I mean that's what I mean.
Testosterone is going to giveyou back not a stimulant energy,
but an overall body energy, amotivational energy.
And I say in my program all thetime, like the motivation is
just energy.
When somebody says, you know, Ijust have no motivation to do
(17:34):
something, I mean some peoplemight think that that's just
laziness or it's in your mind orit's lack of discipline, like
we see.
I know you too like lowhormones, like not enough energy
coming in, not enough goodsubstance, nutrients and things.
So there are reasons that nowyour, your lifestyle and your
(17:55):
habits, your food, is alsoinfluential to how your hormones
are working.
But if we're bottomed out,because we're older, because
we're you know many of thereasons we've talked about, yes,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I want to just share to a lot of women and I mean,
please, I'm not saying you'regoing to divorce your partner if
you're with them, but there isa level of confidence and
motivation that comes withtestosterone that you don't
realize is going to be reallyhelpful at you making changes in
your life.
And I've had women.
This is.
These are very extreme cases,but they're surprising because I
(18:34):
didn't know they weren'tunhappy in their marriage.
It wasn't anything.
They discussed with me.
And then, eight months later,well, I divorced my partner and
I'm like, oh, I'm like wow, okay, I hope that's a good thing.
And they're like I've beenwanting to do it for 20 years
and I'm like holy cow.
And they're like finally hadthe confidence to do it.
And I'm like holy cow, andthey're like finally had the
confidence to do it.
(18:56):
And I'm like holy, so you justit's like it really we call that
a spousectomy right Verymedical term Sometimes it may
not be your libido, it may notbe your hormones.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It may be that you need a removal of a big piece of
your life.
That's just weighing you down,and that's okay too Totally.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Right, absolutely.
But it is interesting to seehow hormone balance affects
every aspect.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, they even talk about the influence of picking a
partner while you're on birthcontrol and that you know what
did I hear that women will umpick people more like their
sibling or their, their dad ifthey're on birth control, and
that can change.
I don't.
I don't know there's it's beena while since I I don't believe
(19:46):
it Softer men looking at youknow for softer, more um more
emotional men when you're onbirth control.
I don't know, I don't know howthey can nail this stuff down
and test it exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
But but it does you.
You make a good point, though,too, because, if you, I mean,
I've been on birth control.
I remember exactly how I felton birth control, and I felt
like a crazy person.
I don't know how I maintained arelationship on birth control.
I did, you know, but oh mygoodness, what a mess.
And now, when I think about thebalance, I feel holy cow.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What a difference you know, and it's so good and we
can talk about too, how thebirth control is going to
suppress testosterone andthyroid hormone.
But for somebody that's been onlong-term birth control, yeah,
explain to everyone what thatdoes, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, I think, the biggest issue I'll just talk
about it from my own personalpoint of view when, um, my
younger skating students were onbirth control, I noticed they
were breaking bones more.
Now I mean, I don't havemedical literature to put the
two together, I'm just, you know, observing, and these girls
were really, they were reallystruggling to be physically
(21:07):
competitive with girls thatweren't on birth control.
And so clearly, you know,you're suppressed, you're, you
are suppressing estradiol,progesterone, testosterone.
You're suppressing everything.
So, yeah, you may have a um, Idon't know better menstrual
cycle, better, whatever thatmeans for you, but my gosh,
you're compromising in terms ofmuscle strength, in terms of um
(21:30):
metabolism, in terms of moodstabilization, all of these
things that are just soimportant to the growth and the
mindset of an adolescent, to,you know, 20s, 30s, whatever it
is.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So, and healing, if you're getting hurt right and
coming back from injury andrecovering the body is all going
to play a part in the time youneed to get there to get back.
Um, yeah, and I mean when wesee women that are, you know,
still on birth control intotheir forties sometimes they
don't even need it, right, butthey are, um, and I, I know
(22:06):
there's a time and a place andwe, if you don't want to
perimenopausal baby, which mostof us don't we've got to have
solutions.
And we say like around here,you know, vasectomy is our
favorite form of birth control,let them go get it.
And we have plenty ofconversations with men who don't
understand what the birthcontrol is doing to their
(22:27):
partner and how much it'swrecking havoc still in their
hormones.
And every man that we've hadthat conversation with, when you
tell them they're like, ohreally, like, of course I'll go
do it, I'll get it done.
And you know, two days with abag of peas right there and
you're good, right, exactly.
Or years and years untilmenopause of a woman continuing
(22:50):
on birth control, continuing toweigh down their thyroid hormone
, their testosterone levels Someof them crush your estrogen, so
your low levels of estrogen waybefore menopause.
We see that in 20 year oldgirls, all the time, right,
levels of estrogen under five, Imean constant UTIs, you know,
not feeling well, joint pain,just depressed, right, not
(23:15):
feeling vibrant at all, and youlook, they shouldn't be a mess,
but they're a mess in their labs, right?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that's that's the only
solution.
It seems like in in.
You know, conventional medicineis just throw them on birth
control.
And there are, you know, I meanthe amount of women that should
probably be on progesterone waysooner than perimenopause.
I mean absolutely getting thethyroid replaced, you know, as
needed.
Yeah, I, usually something thatmaybe we could go over, emily,
(23:46):
is just when we talk about eachhormone, I like to connect the
symptomology to each hormone.
That way everybody can kind ofunderstand what each one does.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome, so,okay.
So maybe, um, testosterone, wecould just start with that.
That is physical energy, libido, confidence, assertiveness,
decisiveness, motivation to dolife, and you know all those
(24:10):
things.
I know I think I repeatedmotivation, but thyroid is
mental energy, mental clarity,focus, memory, just to kind of
put those two.
So testosterone is more of yourphysical energy and thyroid is
more of your mental energy.
Progesterone is your sleephormone, your anti-anxiety
hormone, mood stabilizationhormone, right?
(24:31):
So there's just a sense of calmand peace to you when you have
this on board.
And then estradiol I just liketo think of it as your overall
wellness female hormone, becauseit really, when you lose it,
you start to have menopausalsymptoms hot flashes, night
sweats, mood swings and agazillion other symptoms that
can present as menopause, as weknow.
(24:52):
But also estradiol gives youbeautiful skin, it gives you a
wonderful memory and it reallyhelps just your mood.
It really helps with thedepressive symptoms as well,
just like testosterone.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, and some of these cross over, right.
I mean depression, anxiety, alittle bit of thyroid there too,
pain in the joints,inflammation.
These are all going to lowestrogen, low testosterone.
Even progesterone isanti-inflammatory thyroid, right
.
So you've got a lot ofcrossover, but, yeah, what we're
talking about, what Erinoutlined, are the main.
(25:26):
You know, when you're thinking,how do I feel today?
Did I get through my day havingto stop and think and I
couldn't remember things?
I couldn't finish a sentence,right?
Are we looking deep enough atthe thyroid?
Are we doing a full thyroidpanel?
You know, is it?
You know, I didn't want to goto the gym, I didn't want to get
up.
I don't feel good about my body.
I don't, you know, feel like Ican make.
(25:48):
I mean, I got girls that can'tmake decisions about what
they're going to eat through theday.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right, there's your testosterone, yes, testosterone
helps you with that, ladies.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
It's not that it will make you lose the weight.
It will help all this stressthat's going on between the
brain and the body and whatwe're going to do next and how
we're going to execute things.
It helps put all that together.
It's so hard to explain, right.
We're kind of explaining it indifferent situations and how it
comes up for us and what we seein our patients, and it's just
(26:21):
so fun to listen and getfeedback and testimony from you
know women not necessarily theone that say says I'm leaving my
husband after 20 years, but ifthat's good for her that's good
for her is what she needed to do.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right, right.
But for the others, you knowthat.
You know I had a girl recentlythat I mean went out and bought
like the next level of ofweights for her house, like the
like the 15 pound, 20 and 30pound weights, and just so
excited to be able to lift thoseand feel strong.
And this is a girl that didn'tlike working out at all and now
(26:54):
she is, you know, with just homeworkouts, even just thriving.
Just feeling strong is fun.
It is so much fun.
I mean, when I really got intoweightlifting after high school,
and not just as an athlete butas a bodybuilder, I mean it was
fun to push your body into sea.
And you know we, we joke andsay you know your purse weighs
(27:16):
probably 10 pounds, but then yougo wake like pick up the pink
weights in the gym and stick tolike the five pounds.
But when you're like confidentthat your body can do something
safely and you're not worriedabout things and it's just fun,
it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I so agree, I so agree, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah.
And then people are women arelooking forward, and men too,
for the benefits of libido.
And that was the number.
That was why I it was the thingthat changed in my marriage
that my husband and I were likethis something's wrong.
There is something totallywrong and we have to figure it
out.
(27:55):
The birth control didn't fix it.
The antidepressant didn't fixit right.
There was no fix for it, and itis why I kept looking and found
the hormone help.
That I did Because it was notsomething that we were willing
to compromise on.
We went from having sex everyday to like don't touch me, I
(28:16):
don't know what's wrong with me,I'm crying, I'm raging, my
hair's falling out.
I gained eight pounds in amonth.
When my hormones hit the fan,my testosterone was a three.
When I tested it, it literallysaid on the range zero to 60.
So it was in the normal range.
I don't know if you now they'remaking the range four, it says
(28:37):
60.
So I would.
I would have been out of thenormal range.
But on my original testosteroneand hormone labs it said zero
to 60 and I was normal Threeyeah.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh my gosh, I you know.
And just to speak to thenumbers, quickly too, I'll say
most women, if they come in withlike a five or a 13, that's
usually where the numbers comein for their, their total
testosterone.
When they come back and they'relike Erin, I feel great.
This is amazing.
They're somewhere between two,50, three, 50 at a minimum.
Yeah, you know.
(29:09):
So I'm sure you see that samerange.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
But women don't know on here.
So if you're being treated andyou're not sure what to be
looking for and if you're youknow you're with a provider
that's got you in the sixtiesand they're pulling your cream
back you may want to reach outand look for other options
because you're probably notfeeling what other people are
feeling.
(29:32):
Right, and maybe you're good at60 or 70 or.
But I've seen providers pullwomen back from being in levels
at 70 or 80, you know, pull backon their cream dosing so or
make them go to every other dayor something crazy.
So it's okay if you're, if yourlevels are out of that normal
range when you are supplementingwith testosterone therapy,
(29:55):
you're going to need them to bein order to feel better.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
And to that point, you don't want to be normal, you
want to be optimal, right.
So yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and so when we talk about GLP-1s and that's a
big, big hot topic right nowyeah, we have a lot of women
that just want to be on theGLP-1s.
We have men, too, that willjust ask about the GLP-1s
without any hormone optimization, and and I, I mean I love
(30:28):
peptides, I I do feel likethey're kind of an icing on the
cake, though.
How about you?
As far as you know, Definitely,definitely.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Just to speak to that , when somebody inquires about a
GLP-1, I always say let's dohormones first, let's get you
optimized.
And the main thing, the mainreason I would say is because if
we just put you on a GLP-1 andyou are not hormone optimized,
then you don't have testosterone.
I'm just using picking this asa minimum to maintain the muscle
(30:58):
mass that you are going tostill lose with that GLP one.
It's like you know, at least ifyou've got testosterone on
board, then maybe we've got aprayer to just hold that muscle
in place.
At least what you've got youknow while you're continuing to
lose the weight.
That's my two cents with it.
I don't recommend going on aGLP-1 without hormone
optimization period just forthat reason.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Right, the testosterone, the combo of
testosterone therapy and hormonetherapy with the GLP-1s.
It's amazing, that's where, andwe have people that are
actually non-responders and andthey've come to us because
they'd been with other clinicsand they didn't.
They were buying tons ofmedication at high prices and
(31:41):
weren't getting anywhere.
We get their thyroid optimized,we add testosterone and we've
seen people drop weight likecrazy doing the same things they
were doing, right, justtweaking the diet maybe a little
, but same doses or lower doses.
I have a girl that was on.
She's on half the dose ofterzapotide.
You know, once we optimizethyroid, once we optimize
(32:04):
testosterone, half the dose thatanother clinic had her on,
where she had plateaued after 30pounds, wouldn't lose any more
weight, still had 30 pounds tolose and we're almost at her
goal now on half.
And she's like I don't, youknow I was spending so much more
money doing huge doses oftriseptide without getting
results and she stayed there formonths and months and they just
(32:27):
kept trying to turn up the dosewhen there were all these
underlying problems that theGLP-1 is not going to.
It's going to help yourmetabolism.
It's going to help the insulinresistance.
There are things that it doesdo very well, but it's not going
to bring your hormones back.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Beautiful example, beautiful.
We see that all the time,especially people coming to us
saying I don't know why thisisn't working.
You know the GLP-1 or whatever,whatever they're on.
Non-responders yeah, they, youknow the GLP-1 or whatever,
whatever they're on.
They're like come on, let's getthose hormones optimized.
And it's night and day it is.
It's totally different.
And then on the other end ofthat say you are trying to
titrate somebody off.
That medication.
(33:02):
You need those hormones.
They've got to be there, oryou're I mean my gosh all that
work, then you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So the two big negative symptoms that everybody
online is talking about arethat you could never get off of
it.
Right, if you go, you get offof it, you're going to gain all
your weight back.
Well, you probably are Ifyou're not optimized.
If you have had a thyroid issueyour whole life and you've been
overweight and dieting yourwhole life and it's never been
addressed because you never hadsomebody to do the labs for you
(33:29):
read it in a way that they'relooking at optimal numbers, not
just a TSH or a T4, maybe You'relucky if you get a T4.
If that is an underlying issuefor you, you're never going to
use the GLP-1 as this jumpstart,get your weight off and be able
to come off of it, andeverybody wants to come off of
it.
Now we have a lot of peoplethat say, now that they're on it
(33:51):
, they're never coming off of it.
They love it.
I'm one of those people.
I love microdosing the GLP-1s.
I just love them.
I love how my body works onthem, how my joints feel on top
of the hormones.
But some people want to come offand that is going to be how you
do it.
You get everything else incheck.
That's part of the wellnessjourney.
That's part of your.
(34:12):
You know your next steps.
And then the other one iseverybody's seeing you're going
to lose all your muscle.
We all know that you lose somemuscle when you lose any weight.
But the testosterone is goingto protect your muscle.
It's going to help protect itas you get older, no matter what
, right?
But a little bit of workout.
I mean, we're seeing people puton muscle on the triseptide and
(34:33):
redditrutide with testosterone.
Not in huge calorie deficits,they don't and they're losing
fat and putting on muscle, whichis mind blowing, right?
You can't do that regularly.
You cannot.
Like everybody joins a gym,especially this time of year.
They cut their calories.
They're on 1200 calories,whether you're on a GLP one.
Of year they cut their calories.
They're on 1200 calories,whether you're on a GLP one or
(34:54):
not.
They're going hard in the gymand wondering why they're not
changing their body composition,right?
So I mean this can't be donewithout help, or you have to
overeat and gain muscle and gainfat, and then you have to cut
and you have to go into acalorie deficit and strip it off
.
Strip off the fat that yougained with the muscle.
(35:16):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Or you can use hormones.
Right, the magical hormones.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yes, they are, they are magic, they are awesome, I
know, I know.
Yeah, we see.
I mean people sleeping betterwith the testosterone,
especially men, especially.
That's what usually we don't.
I mean we need the progesteroneis women to sleep, but gosh,
men come back and say they'resleeping so much better, they
feel better.
I mean it will literally takeages off of your life.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It does.
And I think the sleep is alsofor, like you said, for women
too, with testosterone.
We do a lot of pellets at ourclinics, so I get the benefit of
having a female remain onthyroid and progesterone but as
her pellets wear off, her sleepstarts to decline those last two
to three weeks prior to pelletinsertion.
And so you know, some womenhave just testosterone, some
(36:09):
women have testosterone andestradiol, depending on where
they are in their hormonejourney, and it is absolutely.
They just start to have theselittle breakthrough symptoms.
And the big one I see withwomen is sleep.
They're like why am I notsleeping?
I'm taking my progesteronebecause your testosterone is
starting to dwindle, so yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
And if you're not on testosterone therapy, even when
you're on progesterone, you knowwe have that cycle of
testosterone and estrogenthrough the month that you're
always going.
You know women will call andsay you know, I was slept great
last week and same dose ofprogesterone.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm like we're still havingthese cycles, right.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
So yeah, yes, it's so true, yeah.
And and just to talk quickly toperimenopause versus menopause,
what I see in in my clinic, Ithink perimenopause is much more
difficult and complicated tomanage, just because I mean,
right, Holy cow, Like you're,you still have a female's
(37:09):
estradiol that's going up anddown.
Sometimes females are stillmaking their own progesterone,
Sometimes not, it's just it'severy individual is different.
But oh my goodness, Like.
And then when the estradioldrops super low, sometimes women
are depressed for, you know, acouple months, and then all of a
sudden they're like I'm back, Ifeel great, Like everything's
fine and it's tough.
(37:31):
And that period ofperimenopause could last, you
know, 10 years.
I don't know it could last, youknow it could last a month.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
People that live with us.
If you're not replacinghormones, just think of them,
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
And so my big sell with you know, perimenopause is
at least, if you are balancedwhen you're in perimenopause,
it's a much smoother transitioninto menopause, right.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Like, yes, the earlier you start the hormone
replacement therapy, the better.
That they're studying that,they're putting it out there all
over.
I mean it's don't wait untilyou know.
Yeah, you're divorced becauseyou know your husband is living
with somebody that you or himdon't recognize.
You're miserable, you don'tknow why.
(38:16):
You hate everything andeverybody.
You don't want to do anythingand it's sad.
We all know women like that.
We do.
And now, knowing what I know,like looking back on the older
women in my life as I wasgrowing up and meeting, I'm like
gosh, they needed something.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yes, yes, and you know, emily, just to talk to um,
I have a lot of lesbian couplesand that's a fascinating
dynamic because usually in aheterosexual couple you still
have the male testosterone todrive sex in a.
In a lesbian couple it's ifyou've got two females that are
perimenopausal.
They may never engage sexuallyfor God knows how long because
(38:56):
they're both dropping at thesame time.
So if your partner, you know if, if you're both female really
consider the hormone replacementjust for that aspect, because
you may not realize that youdon't have a male testosterone
level driving the partnership.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
So I just like to say occasionally it helps people
understand.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Wait a minute, there's something more going on
here.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So, yeah, yeah, definitely, I haven't even
considered that we don't.
Yeah, I don't think we have any, actually maybe a couple, but
no, we haven't really addressedthat.
So, yeah, it's a veryinteresting concept, and to
think about just the differentdynamics of any relationship, I
mean, yeah, but if yourpartner's testosterone is low,
(39:40):
you're in the same situation,though, as two lesbians
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
For sure.
But it is interesting becauseeven if a male's testosterone is
500, that's still much betterthan seven.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, obviously, but at leastthey might be able to muster a
feeling of desire, right, andmen even.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I mean we've seen really low testosterone levels
in men and libido not be anissue, right, so they can
override that.
They got stuff in them that youknow their brain can take over
whatever the penis has.
Its own brain, who knows?
You know there are alldifferent things going on with
that.
But they don't necessarily needhealthy testosterone levels all
(40:24):
the time to want sex like womendo.
I mean, they just don't.
So who knows?
That's a whole nother.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yes, yes, and and just I think.
Lastly, to kind of tie thiswhole you know the hormone talk
together, I would say you haveto make sure you're with a
provider that is understandingthat you're unique.
Yes, you know, and, and whileEmily and I are talking about
you know generalities withhormones.
She knows just as well as I do.
Whoever is sitting in front ofme has their own individual
(40:53):
response to whatever we givethem.
And if you're working withsomeone who's very like you know
here just take this dose ofestradiol Well, hold on.
You've got to ask a few morequestions, because where you
start is going to make a bigdifference.
You know the way in which youtake it is going to make a big
difference, you know so it's.
You really want to make sureindividualization is happening.
(41:15):
You know the customization ishappening, because that's what
it's all about.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, and we know I mean.
There's companies out there notrunning labs just giving out
progesterone, testosterone ornot testosterone, but
progesterone, estrogen and women, and I see it in Facebook
groups all day um where womenare.
They'll say they're on HRT andthey list out all their symptoms
.
You should not be on a goodhormone replacement therapy
(41:43):
program and be experiencingeight out of 10 symptoms still.
It's not just for the hotflashes, it's not just, you know
, for the night sweats.
It should cover a range ofsymptoms that you're
experiencing.
So don't settle for just.
You know your 0.05% estrogenpatch milligram, you know, and
(42:06):
that's what you got put on.
And now you're on hormones andyou're still looking for 20
other answers to the symptomsthat you experience every single
day.
It should not be like that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
So true, so true, I'd say that's most of the
correction I do at my clinic is,if anyone comes from another
clinic, it's because theyweren't dosed correctly, either
too little or too much, causeyou see it the opposite way.
Someone will throw a pellet insomebody and I'm like what was
the dosage?
They're like I don't know.
So right.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I started gaining weight, I started losing hair.
I had acne all over.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
No right and they're not able to access the provider
to make a change.
You know the whole story so Iknow, emily, you guys do such a
great job at your clinic.
I know that's important to uswith.
What we do is just making sureyou really talk to the patient,
making sure you understandwhat's going on and you know
we're definitely on the samepage with that.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I mean, that's why I wanted to have you on Aaron and
um.
We'll wrap up today, but we'lldefinitely come back and talk
about more hormones and hormonereplacement therapy and um.
I'll leave your contactinformation in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Thanks for having me, Emily.
Thank.
Welcome back to Health Hormones and Done With
Dieting.
I'm your host, emily Murphy.
Thank you for joining us, andtoday we have a special guest,
erin Tong, aprn.
She works at a hormonespecialty clinic in Orlando and
we have met and had some greatconversations and I'm happy to
have her on the podcast today.
(00:23):
Thank you, erin, for coming andlet everybody know a little bit
about yourself and yourbackground.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Awesome.
Thank you, emily, for having me.
I am very happy to be here.
Yeah, I actually got intohormones from pediatrics and
there was not a big jump.
Yeah, it wasn't direct, it wasvery indirect.
But actually what happened wasmy husband got treated for
hormone replacement and when Isaw the change in him, that's
(00:52):
when, like this light bulb wentoff in my head I was like, oh my
gosh, what is this?
And immediately I was like,okay, this is what I want to do
and I just I just changedeverything and I just started
going after some clinicals thatwere in you know the wellness
space.
And then eventually, I justchanged everything and I just
started going after someclinicals that were in you know
the wellness space.
And then eventually I gotmyself on hormones about three
and a half years ago, and Iremember thinking I don't need
(01:14):
hormones, I'm great.
I mean, I'm in good shape, Ieat well.
And then, of course, I took myhormones and I was like, how
would I live without them?
This is spectacular.
So yeah, it was just watchingpersonal transformation, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And so many people, providers, that I know, nobody
just goes.
I want to do hormones.
It's usually from this personalexperience where I mean same
for me, that it had theevolution of your wellness
journey and all of a sudden, youknow, someone you know or
yourself, starts not feeling thebest and there are not answers
(01:48):
in traditional medicine for you.
You know, it's like all of asudden, one day you're feeling a
little older and and you maynot, you weren't, you didn't
recognize yet that that that wasyou, but you, we all kind of
have that shift and then youstart feeling good again and
you're like oh, how did you know?
How did I know I wasn't feelinga hundred percent anymore,
(02:10):
cause we don't right.
It's funny like having whenwe're talking about dosing
hormones and today, guys, we'regoing to talk a lot about
testosterone and all thehormones probably we'll get to
in this short amount of timejust little snippets and then
we'll have Aaron back.
But we want to focus ontestosterone today because that
is well one.
It's where your husband started, I'm sure too, and the change
(02:32):
that happened there.
For us women it can take acombination of, you know, quite
a few different hormones to getus back, but for men it's going
to be, you know the bigtestosterone and um, and let's
talk about the difference.
Uh, I guess you know in in whatpeople, how they might be
living and feeling and thattransformation that does happen
(02:56):
going on on hormones andtestosterone replacement therapy
specifically.
So are you okay talking aboutyeah, husband stuff, absolutely,
absolutely.
We could talk about mine too.
I always do.
If you've been listening here,you know about us and our
relationship and everythingalready and I know now about it
too.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So this is good.
But uh, yeah, I would say uhfor my husband in particular.
I mean, he was in hismid-irties and the main symptom
that presented for him was justsuppression and he would just
have these things where he'd belike, listen, I'm in that funk
again and I'm like, what are youtalking about?
And you know, for us in our midthirties we just weren't
(03:36):
introduced to hormones.
We didn't even know this was apotential issue.
He went to three differentendocrinologists that were all
like you're fine, you're in thenormal range, and if you know
anything about the range oftestosterone for a man, oh yeah,
let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Tell everybody about the range.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I want to say 200 to 900.
Let me just give you a roughrange.
My husband, I think, was aboutone no, I'm sorry like 199 or
200.
Like he was just right on thatborder and the guy was like
you're good, you're low, butyou're and of course we know low
.
I mean that you could be cryingin the corner for the rest of
(04:13):
your life at that number, Likethat's, you can't do anything at
that number.
But again, right, endocrinology, conventional medicine, you're
good, you're fine, like it'sjust low, but you've got this.
But when we moved to Floridafrom New York and we actually
found a hormone provider, theywere like, oh yeah, that's a low
(04:34):
number.
You'd probably feel better ifit were closer to 900.
Well, what a, what an amazingidea.
And sure enough, the minute hestarted taking it.
Granted, at the beginning thosedosages were a little bit too
low, at least from what I knownow.
Yeah, but change right.
It was like night and day.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
People don't realize depression is one of the
symptoms of low hormone andspecifically low testosterone.
I don't know if men communicateit very well by the time they
get to us.
They're usually it's beenrecognized, usually by the wife,
right, and they are sendingthem to us cause they're feeling
(05:13):
better.
That's how a lot of malepatients come to us.
But when things start to feelbetter and they come out of like
, for women I call it like thefog right, where they've just
been in this haziness and notsure what's wrong.
It's almost like an out of bodyexperience.
You're like.
That used to be how I felt andnow every day I try to you know,
(05:34):
manage what is a totallydifferent experience.
You know, in this body, in thesame body.
But for men, I don't think theyput it together as much as say
and say, like you know, I feeldepressed and that could be
coming from my body, not mybrain, right?
Even though we knowtestosterone and the hormones
affect the brain, but these arelow levels in the whole body and
(05:58):
not in it's.
It's hard to explain if you, ifyou haven't experienced it, or
you may be sitting therethinking and feeling.
This could be me, this could bemy spouse.
This could be.
You know what we'reexperiencing as we.
You know what you said mid-30s.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, absolutely, and even earlier.
You know I mean everybody's sodifferent.
You know so many endocrinedisruptors and different
circumstances right as to what'sgoing on in your life.
So I think if I could just makea general recommendation, I
would say if you're in your late20s, early 30s, just get a
baseline, just see where you'reat, because you might be
(06:36):
surprised at how low somethingis which could directly relate
to a symptom that you can'treally find resolution to.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right that you may have to deal with for 10, 15, 20
years before somebody says youknow this could be a problem and
you realize it's a problem.
It's been a problem your wholelife, which is what happened to
me, I feel like, with my thyroid.
You know, only treating it inthe last five years, after
figuring out the symptoms andknowing what I know now, I would
have benefited from thyroidhormone for the last 20 years.
(07:06):
I mean, it changed my wholelife, the way my body worked,
everything, and I didn'tprobably need testosterone back
then.
But it was the same thing withme too.
With testosterone, with addingprogesterone.
We have I mean, we have youngwomen on progesterone therapy,
teenage girls, early 20s, and wehave guys, men on in clomiphene
(07:28):
or testosterone therapy thatare, they're young, their levels
shouldn't be bottomed out, andthey are and you know they were.
Some of us came just running abaseline, just like you talked
about to own, to find that theywere way lower than they should
have been.
And when you put the piecestogether and you talk about the
symptoms and what's going onit's like all these aha moments
(07:50):
and light bulbs going off yousee somebody start to put it
together that this has been theproblem.
Now, why is it the problem?
Like you said, we don't I meanwe don't know we could go chase
that rabbit all the way down thehole right.
Why is all of our you knowhormone?
Why are all of them low atcertain times For men right?
Endocrine disruptors,fragrances, environmental toxins
(08:14):
, food we eat, lack of sunlight,lack of sleep, too much screen
time all the things right.
And you could do all the thingsright and still have issues.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
We don't know why.
Yes, definitely I say, emily,the thing that I want to bring
up for women that are listeningtoo, I think with men, yes, we
tend to see it present asdepression or maybe just lack of
strength or maybe lack ofmotivation, but women, I feel as
though it presents more likethis I really am just not
(08:47):
wanting to participate in life.
It's like they've reallystepped back, they're kind of
watching their life go by andthey said they just feel like
they're not even in their bodyanymore.
They're like right, like such aan observer, but just not
wanting to engage.
And and I really think it's aform of depression.
And a lot of women say I knowI'm not depressed, but I want to
(09:11):
say nothing's wrong, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
They know that things aren't wrong enough, that they
should be happy, they shouldhave gratitude, they should be
able to enjoy their life, butthey can't on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah totally, and they women will say that exact
sentence to me.
They're like I have nothing tobe depressed about.
I don't know why I don't wantto engage with my kids, why I
don't want to engage in my youknow family activities.
But I I don't, or you know, orI don't want to go to work
anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I just don't feel like you know, and it's all
these things they love.
It's like they've lost thiszest for life, right, right, yes
, I remember before I went onhormones and when I was looking
for answers and I was put onbirth control, um, I was told it
wouldn't matter if we tested myhormones because they were
always changing.
My OBGYN told me that and shesaid you know, let's try this
(10:01):
birth, birth control, this willeven you out.
And it did not even anything outit put me in a rage where my
hair was falling out and myfamily couldn't live with me,
and then my primary care put meon an antidepressant,
anti-anxiety.
So in this you know where I'mtrying to figure out what's
going on and why I'm feeling theway.
(10:22):
I'm feeling one of the biggestthings that I've never talked
about or really explained andyou said this and it reminded me
.
I used to just see my texts onmy phone, whether it was, hey,
do you want to come bring thekids and do this?
Or hey, I have a new client foryou.
Or hey, I'm interested in yourprogram, can you call me back
(10:44):
and give me some information.
It didn't matter if it wasfamily, friends, leads for my
business.
I would just put the phone backdown and say, like, I'll get to
that later.
I just had no oomph to evenanswer somebody about hey, let's
get together for a play date,and I would put things off and
my anxiety would grow because Ifelt like I was letting people
(11:07):
down or I was withdrawing.
It was the weirdest, like thisnegative feedback loop that I
was stuck in, where I wascausing myself more anxiety from
not taking action and doing thethings.
But I could, I couldn't get upand do the things.
I couldn't even answer textmessages.
It was like that was too much,because the planning, the next
step of whatever I had to do,led to the next thing and I knew
(11:30):
I wasn't going to have theenergy for it, so just like,
okay, that's, I'm not going todeal with that.
Now, like two weeks later, Irun into somebody and they're
like I text you and I would feelso bad.
It was just part of what, likethis darkness in this cloud that
I couldn't figure out and Icouldn't explain.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, yes and again, I think testosterone is the
number one reason why women endup going on an antidepressant
falsely, you know, incorrectly,yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And we see that all the time, people that come into
practice, that are on, they'reon birth control, they're on
SSRI, they're on birth control,they're on SSRI, antidepressant,
anti-anxiety.
It's all paired together andthey're a mess and they're
(12:17):
wondering what's going on,because these are the answers
that they've gotten from theirdoctor and they've been told
that everything's normal,correct.
Another thing is being able tochange body composition, being
able to preserve the lean musclemass that you have, or actually
change your body and put someon.
I mean, this is so hard withouttestosterone.
You want to talk about that alittle?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Oh yeah, I will tell you, I was a figure skater for
most of my life.
I didn't know that about you,yes, yes, and I taught
professionally figure skatingfor about 15 years.
So I mean, even you know, latetwenties, early thirties, I was
still needing to use my bodyvery physically and I noticed,
(12:58):
like as I got older, how hard itwas to continue teaching, how
hard it was to continuechoreographing programs, and the
amount of strength that stilltook to do that.
And now that I am ontestosterone, I would say I mean
, this sounds crazy, but I feellike I can not work out for
maybe two, three, four days Notthat I like to do that and the
(13:19):
muscle mass remains and you'relike what the heck?
This is like never before.
So it's just like a goodexample of wow, it is
maintaining, it's holding itthere, and so, yeah, I don't
know what else you would like to, what direction you want to go
with that.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, you and you are an athlete, so you understand
you probably, you know, had somemuscle already because you've
worked your life.
And me too, I had put on muscleat a very young age playing
softball.
Then I competed in bodybuildingand figure.
For five years I was always inthe gym, always pushing heavy
weights, doing way too much, youknow, and breaking my body down
(13:58):
.
From what I know now, I wasover training, um, but the, the
average woman who is now gettinginto weightlifting at 40 years
old is looking at wanting to gettoned.
That's the vision for everybody.
Right, they want, and which isawesome, because we don't have a
lot of people I don't haveanybody coming to me that ever
(14:20):
says I just want to be skinny,right, people, women want to
look toned, they want to lookmuscular, they, they like that.
When I was doing that, um, youknow, in the early two thousands
, uh, it wasn't really a, itwasn't a thing.
I mean I stood out in withother people, you know I was
okay in the gym and then if Ileft, if I was in a group of
(14:41):
normal people, I, I look, I was140 pounds, I looked huge, um,
standing next to a girl that was140 pounds without muscle and
uh, but now this is what.
This is a trend and it's anawesome trend and and women want
it and they work so hard, theycut their calories and they're
not putting on muscle andthey're very, um, frustrated by
(15:03):
it.
They're not.
Their bodies aren't changingLike they see the girls on
Instagram or you know, and youshouldn't compare yourself, but
you know the social media andthe stuff is out there, right,
and you may be doing the sameworkouts, maybe a coach is
giving them to you, you'refollowing a trainer and your
body isn't changing the way youwant it to change, and this
could be because yourtestosterone levels are low.
(15:26):
And yeah, and we see it with mentoo.
I have men coming to us for thesame reasons.
Right, if their testosterone isin the lower ranges, they can't
lose weight, they can't changetheir body composition.
This is where that you know,dad bod comes from, right, in
air quotations.
But the you know, the biggerbelly, the softer shoulders and
(15:49):
chest right, which is oppositethan you know if somebody you
think high testosterone right,Broad shoulders, tapered waist
not that everybody has to besuper chiseled like that, but in
general, right, the shapes thatwe are talking about are
influenced by hormones, andeither you know healthy levels
of them or unhealthy levels ofthem.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, and you put such a good point Body
composition.
That is, I think, the thingthat I can visually see.
There's men that that will comein and start testosterone, and
women too, of course.
I'm just saying, with men itseems to be more of a visual.
You can really see a changewith them if they, if they are,
you know, softer in terms of themuscular presentation, if they
come in even five or six weekslater and they, they haven't
(16:32):
exercised, they haven't changedanything but add testosterone,
their body has changed.
You can visually see the shapechange and they may not have
lost weight or the weight hasremained the same.
But you're right, thecomposition different, right,
they do look different and theymight be doing more, more energy
, even if they're just doingmore around the house.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Right, Even those little non-exercise calories
that we build up during the day.
Right, Just because you havemore energy.
They say, even fidgeting rightBurns more calories and, you
know, helps your metabolism morethan somebody who just sits
still because you have no energy.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, so and energy.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
this leads us right into energy.
I mean that's what I mean.
Testosterone is going to giveyou back not a stimulant energy,
but an overall body energy, amotivational energy.
And I say in my program all thetime, like the motivation is
just energy.
When somebody says, you know, Ijust have no motivation to do
(17:34):
something, I mean some peoplemight think that that's just
laziness or it's in your mind orit's lack of discipline, like
we see.
I know you too like lowhormones, like not enough energy
coming in, not enough goodsubstance, nutrients and things.
So there are reasons that nowyour, your lifestyle and your
(17:55):
habits, your food, is alsoinfluential to how your hormones
are working.
But if we're bottomed out,because we're older, because
we're you know many of thereasons we've talked about, yes,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I want to just share to a lot of women and I mean,
please, I'm not saying you'regoing to divorce your partner if
you're with them, but there isa level of confidence and
motivation that comes withtestosterone that you don't
realize is going to be reallyhelpful at you making changes in
your life.
And I've had women.
This is.
These are very extreme cases,but they're surprising because I
(18:34):
didn't know they weren'tunhappy in their marriage.
It wasn't anything.
They discussed with me.
And then, eight months later,well, I divorced my partner and
I'm like, oh, I'm like wow, okay, I hope that's a good thing.
And they're like I've beenwanting to do it for 20 years
and I'm like holy cow.
And they're like finally hadthe confidence to do it.
And I'm like holy cow, andthey're like finally had the
confidence to do it.
(18:56):
And I'm like holy, so you justit's like it really we call that
a spousectomy right Verymedical term Sometimes it may
not be your libido, it may notbe your hormones.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It may be that you need a removal of a big piece of
your life.
That's just weighing you down,and that's okay too Totally.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Right, absolutely.
But it is interesting to seehow hormone balance affects
every aspect.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, they even talk about the influence of picking a
partner while you're on birthcontrol and that you know what
did I hear that women will umpick people more like their
sibling or their, their dad ifthey're on birth control, and
that can change.
I don't.
I don't know there's it's beena while since I I don't believe
(19:46):
it Softer men looking at youknow for softer, more um more
emotional men when you're onbirth control.
I don't know, I don't know howthey can nail this stuff down
and test it exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
But but it does you.
You make a good point, though,too, because, if you, I mean,
I've been on birth control.
I remember exactly how I felton birth control, and I felt
like a crazy person.
I don't know how I maintained arelationship on birth control.
I did, you know, but oh mygoodness, what a mess.
And now, when I think about thebalance, I feel holy cow.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What a difference you know, and it's so good and we
can talk about too, how thebirth control is going to
suppress testosterone andthyroid hormone.
But for somebody that's been onlong-term birth control, yeah,
explain to everyone what thatdoes, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So, I think, the biggest issue I'll just talk
about it from my own personalpoint of view when, um, my
younger skating students were onbirth control, I noticed they
were breaking bones more.
Now I mean, I don't havemedical literature to put the
two together, I'm just, you know, observing, and these girls
were really, they were reallystruggling to be physically
(21:07):
competitive with girls thatweren't on birth control.
And so clearly, you know,you're suppressed, you're, you
are suppressing estradiol,progesterone, testosterone.
You're suppressing everything.
So, yeah, you may have a um, Idon't know better menstrual
cycle, better, whatever thatmeans for you, but my gosh,
you're compromising in terms ofmuscle strength, in terms of um
(21:30):
metabolism, in terms of moodstabilization, all of these
things that are just soimportant to the growth and the
mindset of an adolescent, to,you know, 20s, 30s, whatever it
is.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So, and healing, if you're getting hurt right and
coming back from injury andrecovering the body is all going
to play a part in the time youneed to get there to get back.
Um, yeah, and I mean when wesee women that are, you know,
still on birth control intotheir forties sometimes they
don't even need it, right, butthey are, um, and I, I know
(22:06):
there's a time and a place andwe, if you don't want to
perimenopausal baby, which mostof us don't we've got to have
solutions.
And we say like around here,you know, vasectomy is our
favorite form of birth control,let them go get it.
And we have plenty ofconversations with men who don't
understand what the birthcontrol is doing to their
(22:27):
partner and how much it'swrecking havoc still in their
hormones.
And every man that we've hadthat conversation with, when you
tell them they're like, ohreally, like, of course I'll go
do it, I'll get it done.
And you know, two days with abag of peas right there and
you're good, right, exactly.
Or years and years untilmenopause of a woman continuing
(22:50):
on birth control, continuing toweigh down their thyroid hormone
, their testosterone levels Someof them crush your estrogen, so
your low levels of estrogen waybefore menopause.
We see that in 20 year oldgirls, all the time, right,
levels of estrogen under five, Imean constant UTIs, you know,
not feeling well, joint pain,just depressed, right, not
(23:15):
feeling vibrant at all, and youlook, they shouldn't be a mess,
but they're a mess in their labs, right?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I think that's that's the only
solution.
It seems like in in.
You know, conventional medicineis just throw them on birth
control.
And there are, you know, I meanthe amount of women that should
probably be on progesterone waysooner than perimenopause.
I mean absolutely getting thethyroid replaced, you know, as
needed.
Yeah, I, usually something thatmaybe we could go over, emily,
(23:46):
is just when we talk about eachhormone, I like to connect the
symptomology to each hormone.
That way everybody can kind ofunderstand what each one does.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome, so,okay.
So maybe, um, testosterone, wecould just start with that.
That is physical energy, libido, confidence, assertiveness,
decisiveness, motivation to dolife, and you know all those
(24:10):
things.
I know I think I repeatedmotivation, but thyroid is
mental energy, mental clarity,focus, memory, just to kind of
put those two.
So testosterone is more of yourphysical energy and thyroid is
more of your mental energy.
Progesterone is your sleephormone, your anti-anxiety
hormone, mood stabilizationhormone, right?
(24:31):
So there's just a sense of calmand peace to you when you have
this on board.
And then estradiol I just liketo think of it as your overall
wellness female hormone, becauseit really, when you lose it,
you start to have menopausalsymptoms hot flashes, night
sweats, mood swings and agazillion other symptoms that
can present as menopause, as weknow.
(24:52):
But also estradiol gives youbeautiful skin, it gives you a
wonderful memory and it reallyhelps just your mood.
It really helps with thedepressive symptoms as well,
just like testosterone.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Right, and some of these cross over, right.
I mean depression, anxiety, alittle bit of thyroid there too,
pain in the joints,inflammation.
These are all going to lowestrogen, low testosterone.
Even progesterone isanti-inflammatory thyroid, right
.
So you've got a lot ofcrossover, but, yeah, what we're
talking about, what Erinoutlined, are the main.
(25:26):
You know, when you're thinking,how do I feel today?
Did I get through my day havingto stop and think and I
couldn't remember things?
I couldn't finish a sentence,right?
Are we looking deep enough atthe thyroid?
Are we doing a full thyroidpanel?
You know, is it?
You know, I didn't want to goto the gym, I didn't want to get
up.
I don't feel good about my body.
I don't, you know, feel like Ican make.
(25:48):
I mean, I got girls that can'tmake decisions about what
they're going to eat through theday.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Right, there's your testosterone, yes, testosterone
helps you with that, ladies.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
It's not that it will make you lose the weight.
It will help all this stressthat's going on between the
brain and the body and whatwe're going to do next and how
we're going to execute things.
It helps put all that together.
It's so hard to explain, right.
We're kind of explaining it indifferent situations and how it
comes up for us and what we seein our patients, and it's just
(26:21):
so fun to listen and getfeedback and testimony from you
know women not necessarily theone that say says I'm leaving my
husband after 20 years, but ifthat's good for her that's good
for her is what she needed to do.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Right, right.
But for the others, you knowthat.
You know I had a girl recentlythat I mean went out and bought
like the next level of ofweights for her house, like the
like the 15 pound, 20 and 30pound weights, and just so
excited to be able to lift thoseand feel strong.
And this is a girl that didn'tlike working out at all and now
(26:54):
she is, you know, with just homeworkouts, even just thriving.
Just feeling strong is fun.
It is so much fun.
I mean, when I really got intoweightlifting after high school,
and not just as an athlete butas a bodybuilder, I mean it was
fun to push your body into sea.
And you know we, we joke andsay you know your purse weighs
(27:16):
probably 10 pounds, but then yougo wake like pick up the pink
weights in the gym and stick tolike the five pounds.
But when you're like confidentthat your body can do something
safely and you're not worriedabout things and it's just fun,
it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I so agree, I so agree, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah.
And then people are women arelooking forward, and men too,
for the benefits of libido.
And that was the number.
That was why I it was the thingthat changed in my marriage
that my husband and I were likethis something's wrong.
There is something totallywrong and we have to figure it
out.
(27:55):
The birth control didn't fix it.
The antidepressant didn't fixit right.
There was no fix for it, and itis why I kept looking and found
the hormone help.
That I did Because it was notsomething that we were willing
to compromise on.
We went from having sex everyday to like don't touch me, I
(28:16):
don't know what's wrong with me,I'm crying, I'm raging, my
hair's falling out.
I gained eight pounds in amonth.
When my hormones hit the fan,my testosterone was a three.
When I tested it, it literallysaid on the range zero to 60.
So it was in the normal range.
I don't know if you now they'remaking the range four, it says
(28:37):
60.
So I would.
I would have been out of thenormal range.
But on my original testosteroneand hormone labs it said zero
to 60 and I was normal Threeyeah.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh my gosh, I you know.
And just to speak to thenumbers, quickly too, I'll say
most women, if they come in withlike a five or a 13, that's
usually where the numbers comein for their, their total
testosterone.
When they come back and they'relike Erin, I feel great.
This is amazing.
They're somewhere between two,50, three, 50 at a minimum.
Yeah, you know.
(29:09):
So I'm sure you see that samerange.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
But women don't know on here.
So if you're being treated andyou're not sure what to be
looking for and if you're youknow you're with a provider
that's got you in the sixtiesand they're pulling your cream
back you may want to reach outand look for other options
because you're probably notfeeling what other people are
feeling.
(29:32):
Right, and maybe you're good at60 or 70 or.
But I've seen providers pullwomen back from being in levels
at 70 or 80, you know, pull backon their cream dosing so or
make them go to every other dayor something crazy.
So it's okay if you're, if yourlevels are out of that normal
range when you are supplementingwith testosterone therapy,
(29:55):
you're going to need them to bein order to feel better.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
And to that point, you don't want to be normal, you
want to be optimal, right.
So yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and so when we talk about GLP-1s and that's a
big, big hot topic right nowyeah, we have a lot of women
that just want to be on theGLP-1s.
We have men, too, that willjust ask about the GLP-1s
without any hormone optimization, and and I, I mean I love
(30:28):
peptides, I I do feel likethey're kind of an icing on the
cake, though.
How about you?
As far as you know, Definitely,definitely.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Just to speak to that , when somebody inquires about a
GLP-1, I always say let's dohormones first, let's get you
optimized.
And the main thing, the mainreason I would say is because if
we just put you on a GLP-1 andyou are not hormone optimized,
then you don't have testosterone.
I'm just using picking this asa minimum to maintain the muscle
(30:58):
mass that you are going tostill lose with that GLP one.
It's like you know, at least ifyou've got testosterone on
board, then maybe we've got aprayer to just hold that muscle
in place.
At least what you've got youknow while you're continuing to
lose the weight.
That's my two cents with it.
I don't recommend going on aGLP-1 without hormone
optimization period just forthat reason.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Right, the testosterone, the combo of
testosterone therapy and hormonetherapy with the GLP-1s.
It's amazing, that's where, andwe have people that are
actually non-responders and andthey've come to us because
they'd been with other clinicsand they didn't.
They were buying tons ofmedication at high prices and
(31:41):
weren't getting anywhere.
We get their thyroid optimized,we add testosterone and we've
seen people drop weight likecrazy doing the same things they
were doing, right, justtweaking the diet maybe a little
, but same doses or lower doses.
I have a girl that was on.
She's on half the dose ofterzapotide.
You know, once we optimizethyroid, once we optimize
(32:04):
testosterone, half the dose thatanother clinic had her on,
where she had plateaued after 30pounds, wouldn't lose any more
weight, still had 30 pounds tolose and we're almost at her
goal now on half.
And she's like I don't, youknow I was spending so much more
money doing huge doses oftriseptide without getting
results and she stayed there formonths and months and they just
(32:27):
kept trying to turn up the dosewhen there were all these
underlying problems that theGLP-1 is not going to.
It's going to help yourmetabolism.
It's going to help the insulinresistance.
There are things that it doesdo very well, but it's not going
to bring your hormones back.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Beautiful example, beautiful.
We see that all the time,especially people coming to us
saying I don't know why thisisn't working.
You know the GLP-1 or whatever,whatever they're on.
Non-responders yeah, they, youknow the GLP-1 or whatever,
whatever they're on.
They're like come on, let's getthose hormones optimized.
And it's night and day it is.
It's totally different.
And then on the other end ofthat say you are trying to
titrate somebody off.
That medication.
(33:02):
You need those hormones.
They've got to be there, oryou're I mean my gosh all that
work, then you know yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
So the two big negative symptoms that everybody
online is talking about arethat you could never get off of
it.
Right, if you go, you get offof it, you're going to gain all
your weight back.
Well, you probably are Ifyou're not optimized.
If you have had a thyroid issueyour whole life and you've been
overweight and dieting yourwhole life and it's never been
addressed because you never hadsomebody to do the labs for you
(33:29):
read it in a way that they'relooking at optimal numbers, not
just a TSH or a T4, maybe You'relucky if you get a T4.
If that is an underlying issuefor you, you're never going to
use the GLP-1 as this jumpstart,get your weight off and be able
to come off of it, andeverybody wants to come off of
it.
Now we have a lot of peoplethat say, now that they're on it
(33:51):
, they're never coming off of it.
They love it.
I'm one of those people.
I love microdosing the GLP-1s.
I just love them.
I love how my body works onthem, how my joints feel on top
of the hormones.
But some people want to come offand that is going to be how you
do it.
You get everything else incheck.
That's part of the wellnessjourney.
That's part of your.
(34:12):
You know your next steps.
And then the other one iseverybody's seeing you're going
to lose all your muscle.
We all know that you lose somemuscle when you lose any weight.
But the testosterone is goingto protect your muscle.
It's going to help protect itas you get older, no matter what
, right?
But a little bit of workout.
I mean, we're seeing people puton muscle on the triseptide and
(34:33):
redditrutide with testosterone.
Not in huge calorie deficits,they don't and they're losing
fat and putting on muscle, whichis mind blowing, right?
You can't do that regularly.
You cannot.
Like everybody joins a gym,especially this time of year.
They cut their calories.
They're on 1200 calories,whether you're on a GLP one.
Of year they cut their calories.
They're on 1200 calories,whether you're on a GLP one or
(34:54):
not.
They're going hard in the gymand wondering why they're not
changing their body composition,right?
So I mean this can't be donewithout help, or you have to
overeat and gain muscle and gainfat, and then you have to cut
and you have to go into acalorie deficit and strip it off
.
Strip off the fat that yougained with the muscle.
(35:16):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Or you can use hormones.
Right, the magical hormones.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yes, they are, they are magic, they are awesome, I
know, I know.
Yeah, we see.
I mean people sleeping betterwith the testosterone,
especially men, especially.
That's what usually we don't.
I mean we need the progesteroneis women to sleep, but gosh,
men come back and say they'resleeping so much better, they
feel better.
I mean it will literally takeages off of your life.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It does.
And I think the sleep is alsofor, like you said, for women
too, with testosterone.
We do a lot of pellets at ourclinics, so I get the benefit of
having a female remain onthyroid and progesterone but as
her pellets wear off, her sleepstarts to decline those last two
to three weeks prior to pelletinsertion.
And so you know, some womenhave just testosterone, some
(36:09):
women have testosterone andestradiol, depending on where
they are in their hormonejourney, and it is absolutely.
They just start to have theselittle breakthrough symptoms.
And the big one I see withwomen is sleep.
They're like why am I notsleeping?
I'm taking my progesteronebecause your testosterone is
starting to dwindle, so yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
And if you're not on testosterone therapy, even when
you're on progesterone, you knowwe have that cycle of
testosterone and estrogenthrough the month that you're
always going.
You know women will call andsay you know, I was slept great
last week and same dose ofprogesterone.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm like we're still havingthese cycles, right.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
So yeah, yes, it's so true, yeah.
And and just to talk quickly toperimenopause versus menopause,
what I see in in my clinic, Ithink perimenopause is much more
difficult and complicated tomanage, just because I mean,
right, Holy cow, Like you're,you still have a female's
(37:09):
estradiol that's going up anddown.
Sometimes females are stillmaking their own progesterone,
Sometimes not, it's just it'severy individual is different.
But oh my goodness, Like.
And then when the estradioldrops super low, sometimes women
are depressed for, you know, acouple months, and then all of a
sudden they're like I'm back, Ifeel great, Like everything's
fine and it's tough.
(37:31):
And that period ofperimenopause could last, you
know, 10 years.
I don't know it could last, youknow it could last a month.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
People that live with us.
If you're not replacinghormones, just think of them,
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
And so my big sell with you know, perimenopause is
at least, if you are balancedwhen you're in perimenopause,
it's a much smoother transitioninto menopause, right.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Like, yes, the earlier you start the hormone
replacement therapy, the better.
That they're studying that,they're putting it out there all
over.
I mean it's don't wait untilyou know.
Yeah, you're divorced becauseyou know your husband is living
with somebody that you or himdon't recognize.
You're miserable, you don'tknow why.
(38:16):
You hate everything andeverybody.
You don't want to do anythingand it's sad.
We all know women like that.
We do.
And now, knowing what I know,like looking back on the older
women in my life as I wasgrowing up and meeting, I'm like
gosh, they needed something.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yes, yes, and you know, emily, just to talk to um,
I have a lot of lesbian couplesand that's a fascinating
dynamic because usually in aheterosexual couple you still
have the male testosterone todrive sex in a.
In a lesbian couple it's ifyou've got two females that are
perimenopausal.
They may never engage sexuallyfor God knows how long because
(38:56):
they're both dropping at thesame time.
So if your partner, you know if, if you're both female really
consider the hormone replacementjust for that aspect, because
you may not realize that youdon't have a male testosterone
level driving the partnership.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
So I just like to say occasionally it helps people
understand.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Wait a minute, there's something more going on
here.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
So, yeah, yeah, definitely, I haven't even
considered that we don't.
Yeah, I don't think we have any, actually maybe a couple, but
no, we haven't really addressedthat.
So, yeah, it's a veryinteresting concept, and to
think about just the differentdynamics of any relationship, I
mean, yeah, but if yourpartner's testosterone is low,
(39:40):
you're in the same situation,though, as two lesbians
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
For sure.
But it is interesting becauseeven if a male's testosterone is
500, that's still much betterthan seven.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, obviously, but at leastthey might be able to muster a
feeling of desire, right, andmen even.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I mean we've seen really low testosterone levels
in men and libido not be anissue, right, so they can
override that.
They got stuff in them that youknow their brain can take over
whatever the penis has.
Its own brain, who knows?
You know there are alldifferent things going on with
that.
But they don't necessarily needhealthy testosterone levels all
(40:24):
the time to want sex like womendo.
I mean, they just don't.
So who knows?
That's a whole nother.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yes, yes, and and just I think.
Lastly, to kind of tie thiswhole you know the hormone talk
together, I would say you haveto make sure you're with a
provider that is understandingthat you're unique.
Yes, you know, and, and whileEmily and I are talking about
you know generalities withhormones.
She knows just as well as I do.
Whoever is sitting in front ofme has their own individual
(40:53):
response to whatever we givethem.
And if you're working withsomeone who's very like you know
here just take this dose ofestradiol Well, hold on.
You've got to ask a few morequestions, because where you
start is going to make a bigdifference.
You know the way in which youtake it is going to make a big
difference, you know so it's.
You really want to make sureindividualization is happening.
(41:15):
You know the customization ishappening, because that's what
it's all about.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, and we know I mean.
There's companies out there notrunning labs just giving out
progesterone, testosterone ornot testosterone, but
progesterone, estrogen and women, and I see it in Facebook
groups all day um where womenare.
They'll say they're on HRT andthey list out all their symptoms
.
You should not be on a goodhormone replacement therapy
(41:43):
program and be experiencingeight out of 10 symptoms still.
It's not just for the hotflashes, it's not just, you know
, for the night sweats.
It should cover a range ofsymptoms that you're
experiencing.
So don't settle for just.
You know your 0.05% estrogenpatch milligram, you know, and
(42:06):
that's what you got put on.
And now you're on hormones andyou're still looking for 20
other answers to the symptomsthat you experience every single
day.
It should not be like that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
So true, so true, I'd say that's most of the
correction I do at my clinic is,if anyone comes from another
clinic, it's because theyweren't dosed correctly, either
too little or too much, causeyou see it the opposite way.
Someone will throw a pellet insomebody and I'm like what was
the dosage?
They're like I don't know.
So right.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I started gaining weight, I started losing hair.
I had acne all over.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
No right and they're not able to access the provider
to make a change.
You know the whole story so Iknow, emily, you guys do such a
great job at your clinic.
I know that's important to uswith.
What we do is just making sureyou really talk to the patient,
making sure you understandwhat's going on and you know
we're definitely on the samepage with that.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I mean, that's why I wanted to have you on Aaron and
um.
We'll wrap up today, but we'lldefinitely come back and talk
about more hormones and hormonereplacement therapy and um.
I'll leave your contactinformation in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Thanks for having me, Emily.
Thank.
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