June 20, 2025 • 39 mins
What does it take to look beyond standard cancer protocols when your life is on the line? In this deeply personal and illuminating conversation, children's book author and high-tech retiree Cynthia Chin-Lee shares her remarkable journey of reversing breast cancer through unconventional means.
Diagnosed with invasive lobular carcinoma just one month into her retirement, Cynthia faced the standard recommendation of immediate surgery followed by radiation. Rather than following this path automatically, she chose to research alternative approaches—a decision that would prove life-changing. With quiet determination, she negotiated with her medical team for time to implement dietary changes and less invasive treatments first.
The centerpiece of Cynthia's approach was targeting cancer's universal methionine addiction through a whole-food, plant-based diet. Within six months, specialized imaging showed no evidence of disease, all without surgery. "Once I got my cancer diagnosis, it became easy to commit to the diet," she explains. "It was like, do I eat for a healthy life, or do I eat to encourage the cancer?"
This conversation goes beyond personal anecdotes to examine evidence-based approaches to cancer treatment. Both Joe and Cynthia address the sobering 30% recurrence rates for conventional breast cancer treatments and discuss how to evaluate medical information critically. They share practical advice about researching through scientific databases like PubMed and the importance of building community with fellow cancer patients exploring integrative approaches.
Whether you're facing cancer yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers valuable perspectives on becoming an empowered patient who questions assumptions and makes informed choices. As Cynthia puts it, "There are a lot of other ways to treat cancer than the standard protocol—in fact, you need to go beyond the protocol."
Visit CynthiaChinLee.com/blog to learn more about her journey and read profiles of others who've successfully implemented methionine restriction in their cancer treatment plans.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have a very special
guest.
Her name is Cynthia Chin Leeand we actually know each other
for the past several months, andCynthia is a children's book
author, a high-tech retiree anda cancer thriver and that's
(00:24):
actually what we have in common.
But her story goes a monthafter retiring from a career in
high-tech, she received adiagnosis of cancer and you know
, as anybody knows, that rocksyour world and people react so
very differently, and I thinkthat's a wonderful way to enter
(00:47):
into this picture.
A terrible thing to have incommon.
But as it turns out, you know,we can turn these things into an
inspiration and a tool, apathway to health.
Cynthia, welcome to the podcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm doing well surviving cancer and survivors
and people learning about how todo that get together and share
our thoughts and ideas.
But you certainly have anincredible story and I'd sure
love to hear a little more aboutit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Sure, a month after I retired from my high-tech
career and I was enjoying myself, and then I went for my annual
mammogram and the doctor saidwell, I think we see something,
and I got called back.
The first argument I had waswhen the doctor suggested biopsy
(02:00):
, because my husband, whosefather had passed away of lung
cancer and had a biopsy, was asubject of controversy Because,
as we know, biopsy and surgerycan sometimes cause cancer to
spread story too, because, youknow, I had this giant lump
(02:27):
sticking out of my neck and theywere telling me well, the only
way we're going to know for surewhat it is is to take a biopsy.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But my first instinct was, well, I don't want that,
because you're going to spreadit, I mean.
But then they're telling methat there's no way to know
beyond a shadow of a doubt whatit is unless you take a piece
out.
So what was your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So you know, I wanted to know what I had.
My husband didn't want me to dothe biopsy, but I decided I
would take the risk.
And later, when I did moreresearch, I did find that the
statistics for biopsy seedingcancer, at least for breast
cancer, is about 3%.
Yeah, you are.
(03:07):
You have to weigh the pros andcons.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Exactly Everything seems to be a double-edged sword
in this world.
There's no like for sure.
This will help you or hurt you.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Right.
So I ended up doing the biopsyand they said, yeah, it's
invasive lobular carcinoma.
Fortunately for me, it's aestrogen positive breast cancer,
which, if you're going to havea breast cancer, it's good to
have, you know, a hormonepositive breast cancer because
they have drugs, medicines thatcan help you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Isn't it wild?
Like for people who don't knowanything about cancer.
That's like they think it'sjust this one word and it means
this one thing.
But it means so many differentthings and the causes of cancer
many times affect the ways thatit can be treated and even the
survival rate, like in mysituation.
(03:58):
It was the same thing.
Mine was HPV driven instead ofbad choices driven, hpv driven
instead of bad choices driven,and it made the difference
between a 40, 45% survival rateto 90, 95% survival rate and and
different treatment options.
So you were in the same samesituation.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, so you know, going to a regular doctor, the
opinion was surgery andradiation.
But within 30 days and I wentback and I did more research.
And I was lucky because I had afriend, sue Ann Kaiser, who's
another children's book author,and I had seen her get breast
(04:37):
cancer 18 years earlier.
She did surgery, but when thedoctors went back and said more
surgery, you didn't get clearmargins, as they call it, so
they didn't cut away all thecancer.
She said no, she stepped back,she changed her diet, she
started doing lots of things andI witnessed that just as a
friend when.
(04:58):
I got my diagnosis, I called herup and I said okay, sue Ann,
tell me how you did it.
What did you do?
I called her up and I said okay, Sue Ann, tell me how you did
it.
What did you do?
And I realized that there are alot of other treatments that
are less invasive than surgeryand radiation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, you know the problem with surgery people
don't realize.
People are like, oh, just cutit out.
But the problem with cancer isany little bit that's left
behind is going to spread andyou're in there looking around
and you might not see it all.
And you know the scans can seeit, but the human eye can't
necessarily see it and theremight be cellular masses that
(05:36):
aren't big enough to even seethat they think they cut away
and unless it's somehowencapsulated there's no way to
be sure.
And you know they go and almostlike give you some extra time.
But you know that cancer growsfast as it can.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, you know.
What makes it worse is they'vedone a lot of animal studies and
they show when you surgicallyremove the primary tumor, you
actually stimulate the othercancer that's floating around in
your body.
So there's a possibility thatsurgery is making things worse.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Exactly.
Yeah, People don't know aboutcirculating tumor cells that are
just literally like.
As soon as a mass gets bigenough, it starts breaking
pieces off and just floatsaround the blood just looking
for another place to land, andthere's no way to catch it.
It's just there until you makethem die.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so I gently told my doctors that hey, you
know what I really don't want todo?
Surgery.
Give me at least six months andI'm going to change my diet and
I'm going to do supplements andI'm going to do letrozole,
which is the hormone blocker,and they said you know, we
normally don't give youletrozole until you do surgery.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You must do surgery first right.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I said well, please, you know, give it to me before
surgery.
And you know, if things getreally wildly bad, then maybe
I'll consider surgery.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You can always go and get surgery, but you can't
un-get it once you have it Rightexactly.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So I was very fortunate I found Mark Simon and
Dr Hoffman and the methioninerestrictive diet, which is
pretty much a low protein, wholefood plant-based diet.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
A rough road.
Yeah, so tell me how did youfind Dr Hoffman?
Because I'd like to hear abouthow everybody stumbles into his
world.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I found Dr Hoffman through Mark Simon Okay College
of Research Institute.
They used to do the Zoomstogether.
And then they kind of like dothem separately.
But I also found Mark Simonthrough Chris work.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, he has a program called Chris beat cancer
.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I've read his book and I know who.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I you know did his program and through mostly
strong.
Have you heard of feelingstrong?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, through healing .
So I went on his website and Isaid, oh, there's this support
group called Healing Strong.
So I kind of joined HealingStrong for a few years, and then
from a woman I met throughHealing Strong.
She strongly encouraged me tolook at Mark Simon, and then
Mark encouraged me to look at DrHoffman's stuff so I've done
(08:26):
methionin a's and I do the lowmethionine diet, but it it
basically worked for me yeah sowhat was?
Very tell me what happened likeyou.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You started taking the hormone blocker.
You shifted your diet um.
Did you start taking themethionine a's right away, or
did you?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I did not take it right away because I don't think
I was a perfect candidate forit.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
OK.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So I was taking the nutritional oncology's
nutraceuticals the norinutraceuticals.
And then about, yeah, sixmonths after my diagnosis.
I was lucky in that I had aclinical trial for imaging.
So for women it's mainly womenwith estrogen positive breast
(09:15):
cancer they have a new.
They have a PET scan that'sestrogen based.
So for for people that don'tknow, so for people that don't
know, very often cancer isimaged through a PET scan and
the.
PET scan.
The standard is a glucose PETscan, Correct?
But I, because I hadestrogen-positive breast cancer,
qualified for this clinicaltrial of an estrogen PET scan.
(09:38):
So it was an NIH Department ofDefense clinical trial.
So it was an NIH Department ofDefense clinical trial.
So I got my baseline estrogenPET scan at the beginning of my
diagnosis and it confirmed thebiopsy which was high intake of
estrogen on my right breast atthe same spot.
And then, as part of theclinical trial, you do another
(10:00):
estrogen PET scan.
They call it a MAMI PET M-A-M-I, so it's a MAMmy pet after six
months.
So it's really ironic.
But the same week that I getthis phone call from UCSF, I'm
in the Bay Area.
So UCSF is where I got mymedical care.
They called me and said hey,you missed your appointment for
(10:22):
the anesthesiologist.
And I said what they said yeah,you have surgery appointment
for the anesthesiologist and Isaid what they said yeah, you
have surgery scheduled for nextweek.
Whoa, yeah, I know.
And I said no, just cancel that, please, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think we'll pass on the surgery.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I'm gonna pass on the surgery.
But that week I also had mysecond mammy pet.
The second pet scan and scanshowed that there was no uptake
of estrogen.
So basically no evidence ofdisease wow no yeah, the, the
phd person that was doing thepet scan, the she was really
(10:58):
happy.
She said come over here andtake a look at this, not that.
I can relate to it.
She said you have reversed it,so that was just great news.
I continued on, though I mean,I don't take it for granted and
then at one point, I think likea month or two later, I felt
like I was getting too littleprotein, and I wanted to.
(11:21):
I did a blood test and thatkind of confirmed it, but I also
had symptoms, so I wanted totry to get protein on that diet.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's a rough right.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, I wanted to eat a little more protein and
that's when I went on thethionase okay because Mark said
hey, talk to Dr Hoffman.
If you're gonna even increaseyour plant-based protein, right,
you should take the methionine.
So that's when I went onmethionine.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So you know, the thing is is, once you have
mutated cells, once you have amass of any kind, you have a
problem for life.
It doesn't you know it's, youhave circulating tumor cells and
there's no way to detect it.
I mean you can test, you cantest for markers, you can test
for, like in my case, it's avirus.
(12:06):
So they have a test, they candetect the virus presence in my
blood and if it's not there,well, the particular cancer that
I have caused by that virus isprobably not going to be there.
But that doesn't mean somethingelse or something hasn't
mutated.
I mean, there's just no way.
There isn't really a fail safe.
So once you know that your bodyhas mutated in this way,
(12:30):
there's a high likelihood thatit'll do it again if given the
chance and that gives you kindof a life's work of not giving
it a chance.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That's right and you're lucky.
You have a marker test, so Ialso have a blood marker test
that I can do.
It's the.
Ca-3.
And the other good part aboutmy cancer journey was I would go
in for a scan every six monthsand it's an ultrasound.
The doctors want to do MRI withgadolinium and I just had read
(13:07):
so much negative stuff aboutgadolinium I said no, I said
I'll do an MRI without thegadolinium and then they said,
well, that's not going to helpus, or they.
They can't get off of theirprotocol.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I know they're so stuck on their standard.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So I said Well, hey, I won't do the MRI with contrast
, but I'll do ultrasound and Iwill do mammograms.
So I would go in every sixmonths for my ultrasound.
I'm still doing it and, likewithin a year and a half, my
tumor shrank down to notdetectable.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I love it.
So this is something that Iexperienced, and I'm sure you
did as well.
So you have this sort of Idon't know dance.
You have to do with thesephysicians.
You know, like there are thingsthat only a doctor can order,
you can't like.
In my case, I requested thisparticular chemo cocktail.
(13:55):
I can't go to Amazon and orderit.
You know you have to have aphysician approve it, insurance
has to deal with it, and so youhave to have a friendly
relationship with these peoplethat are there to assist you,
help you, heal you, bring youwhatever it is you need.
(14:16):
But the truth is you're the onewho has to be in control and
you have to kind of manage that.
And some doctors are more Idon't know opinionated or
forceful or strong-willed thanothers, and others will listen.
So you know how did you findyour experience with these
(14:37):
doctors?
You know surgery.
You can always say no to asurgery, but when it comes to
scans and procedures and testsand things like that, like they
get it in their mind it has tobe this way and you have to in
some way convince them thatyou're not fighting them.
But you just don't want thisthing.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I have to negotiate it with the doctors
and sometimes they'll listen andsometimes they won't.
For some of the blood tests,like the marker for my breast
cancer, they won't do becausethey said they don't believe in
it.
So I pay out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
But a few of the things.
I convinced them to order theblood test, like they ordered
the blood test for B12 andvitamin d, because those are
markers that they said, okay, weknow you're vegan, so, yeah,
you want to have the test, sothey ordered it.
Um, it's also the same way withthe imaging.
I had to negotiate with themlike, okay, I'll do this, I'll
(15:38):
do the ultrasound, but I won'tdo the mri, heavy contrast.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know they, these, these scans.
People don't realize that theamount of radiation and the, the
contrast agents, and you know,some of these can be extremely
toxic and it's not like you getit once, like you're going to be
scanned barely regularly forprobably the rest of your life
(16:07):
and you have to determine foryourself how much of that are
you willing to take and is theresome other way?
My experience is that theydon't tell you about any other
thing.
They say this is what we'regoing to do and you're either
going to say yes or no to it.
But it's on you really tofigure out what other options
(16:28):
are out there and maybe evenlooking at different doctors.
Who is a genetic brilliant manand understands a lot of things
about cancers and repurposeddrugs and other ways around,
(16:51):
things that many doctorswouldn't, and my insurance
happened to cover him as well.
So I was able to go and seethis other doctor.
But you're up in the Bay Area.
That's quite a trek down.
There's probably anotherintegrative oncologist or
somebody who has other thoughtsand ideas if you needed.
(17:12):
But how do you find them?
It's sort of maze and turns outa big network is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I was lucky that UCSF had anintegrative oncologist, but it
was funny because he did noteven agree with my going
plant-based.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Really.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
He just said reduce your meat.
But you know he was the onethat ordered some of the blood
tests for me and that's why I'mso grateful for Dr Hoffman's
Zoom and Mark Simon's Zoom,because there's really a
community of the patients, thecancer patients, who want to do
the integrative and lessinvasive treatments, and we
(17:55):
learn from one another so much.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's such an important tool and I'm always
talking about that call I mean,I haven't been on Mark Simon's
call but I'll probably join thatone day simply just because the
experience of all thesedifferent people is where I've
gained so much knowledge andeven ideas.
You know, like Dr Exime andsome of his things, and him and
(18:19):
I have become close and justmeeting with people like you and
I are getting to know eachother and turns out we've got a
lot in common.
And I think that you know whenyou go to a doctor they're going
to.
They read out of a playbook,they have their standard of care
, that they're trained and,depending on what their
specialty is, they're going tohave their playbook.
(18:39):
And I had a surgeon tell me onething.
I had a radiation oncologisttell me, well, don't do the
surgery.
And then I have a medicaloncologist tell me, well, you
have to do the radiation and thechemo.
And then I had an integrativeoncologist through UCI.
So we're both in the same UCsystem, but I'm in UC Irvine and
(19:01):
she had a lot of great ideasand she has never got back to me
.
And so this is all you know andthis is after I had internal
medicine, so you probably don'thave cancer.
So you know, I let mine sit fornine months just thinking I was
going to get over it.
And you know these doctors, manypeople when they get diagnosed
(19:23):
I think they just automaticallyjust do what they're told.
And I think that's where somany problems come from.
And part of it, I think, is ittakes a special kind of person
that just says you know,obviously you have a tremendous
will to live because you wentthrough the effort.
I'm the same way.
I mean, I love every minute ofmy life and I was like I'm not
(19:45):
going to risk.
Once I realized I was facing adifficulty like that, I was like
, well, I'm not going to stop tosolve this thing.
Is that kind of what drove you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I believe in questioning authority and I have
a blog for anyone who mightwant to read it.
It's CynthiaChinley dot comslash blog and I think there are
lots of truths that we live ourlife and we also see that
society will perpetrate manyuntruths or evil or you know,
(20:19):
and we have to question allthose things Indeed.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, I think that, as we're going through like I
don't know about you Once mycommunity.
I've been an activist for manyyears on a lot of levels and I
question everything as well.
I think we have a lot of thatin common.
But I have a lot of people thatyou know cared.
I've helped a lot of peoplewith cancer, but I had a lot of
(20:44):
people that you know cared.
I've helped a lot of peoplewith cancer.
I've been working with cannabismedicine for 40 years and made
cannabis oil and it's helped alot of people.
It didn't help me, but it'shelped a lot of people and
everybody seemed to have an idea.
Did you find that?
Did everybody come to you with?
You got to try this, you got totry that.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Or were you just, yeah, you know absolutely,
because even when you do yourown web research, there are tons
of different ideas andtreatments.
I went to doctors that haddifferent ideas and you know, I
just decided I would do thethings that personally made
sense to me.
Not everything that'snon-conventional makes sense to
(21:24):
me, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
And there's a lot of things there's.
Frankly, you know, I've been inthe natural medicine world for,
like I said, a good 40 years.
I make natural products and Iwork with all kinds of herbs and
supplements and minerals andall kinds of things.
But the truth is there isn'tone answer for everybody and the
thing that helped this guy overhere may or may not help you
(21:47):
and half the people out therejust trying to sell this thing
and maybe they have someevidence that it does a thing,
but that doesn't make it.
So there's so muchmisinformation, there's so much
sort of bits and pieces ofinformation and then at the end
of the day you have to decideand you know you come to sort of
bits and pieces of informationand then at the end of the day,
you have to decide and you knowyou come to sort of I don't know
(22:09):
.
I found that I came to learn mybody really well.
My body and I communicateextremely well.
Now that I've dealt with this,where maybe before I didn't pay
so much attention, did you findthat?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, and there's so much individual variety that a
medical doctor can't know aboutyou as an individual.
You know I found recently thatI was allergic to some
antihistamine and then my sonwas allergic to three sets of
antibiotics he was given andit's like it's not predictable.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, and the other thing too is your body changes.
So you know, I went through myyoung life allergic to these
certain things and then Ioutgrew them and then later on I
became allergic to anotherthing and it's like, well, what
the heck?
You know, there's no rhyme orreason.
You don't get a flag that says,hey, something's changing in
there, it just changes.
(23:01):
And all of a sudden you get asymptom.
And then you know you got tofigure it out or you don't.
You know, I think most of uswalk around with a lot of
symptoms, of things that wedon't either notice or we don't.
They don't bother us enough, orwe cover them up with a thing.
And you know, cancer hidesunderneath everything.
It seems it it'll mask itselfor it'll it'll.
(23:22):
You might have this symptomthat you think is an allergy or
a reaction to something, and itmay be something entirely
different.
I think, like there's so manyoptions, like when you look up
alternative cancer therapies.
There's just like hundreds.
You know there's supplementsand herbs and fruits, and you
(23:47):
know diet varieties and you knowthe first thing you hear about
is you know sugar, right, that'sthe big thing.
You know.
And in this group that we're in, most people, I think, started
it down that route and you know,we go down, we cut the carbs
and the sugar out, think we'regoing to starve the cancer and
we don't know anything aboutthis methionine addiction.
(24:09):
And it really doesn't matter.
Cancer doesn't care.
If it's getting its methionine,it'll eat whatever you got.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
and so you got cancer has a tricky way of adapting.
But you know, the methionineaddiction of cancer is a
universal hallmark of mostcancers yes, exactly once I
discovered that, I started going.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know what?
There are some pillars that Ican rely on and I started really
narrowing my cause.
I was doing everything too.
I mean, I was trying, I had allthese different supplements and
you know, drinking the teas andand the diet, and doing
everything I could.
Cause I was going to doeverything I could and but then
after a while I started goingokay, well, how do you know if
(24:53):
this is helping you or not?
Right, you're taking 20 thingsand you don't know if you're
really getting better or not.
Then it comes down to and Ithink you know Dr Exame is
really strong about that it'slike what's the evidence say?
You know, is there?
Is there something that saysthis helps everybody, or most
people?
And so, when it comes down tothe diet and the things like the
(25:17):
methionine restriction andoxygen therapy, and there are
certain things, cancer doesn'tlike oxygen.
There's no cancer that likesoxygen.
So you're like, ok, well, if youcould oxygenate your body a
little better, you're going tohelp yourself.
You're going to create anenvironment where the cancer is
not going to do so well, notgoing to do so well.
(25:39):
So there are certain thingsthat I've come upon that I say,
well, if I'm going to spend mytime, because it comes down to
like, how much energy can youput to treating yourself right?
You know, I mean that's onething that's been difficult for
me.
It's like when it was goingafter me hard, I had to put
everything on the side andthat's the only thing I did.
Well, guess what?
You could do a lot when youcould dedicate your whole life
to a thing.
But then you start getting yourlife back and all of a sudden
(26:01):
you're like well, how do youmanage it all?
And how did you manage all thedifferent treatments and
therapies along with the rest ofyour life?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, I did follow Dr Exame's advice.
I look for people who can showme the evidence.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So show me that.
So I would look at those papersthat are on the web.
And you know, in PubMed the NIHmedical library Turns out.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Pubmed's quite a great tool.
I searched everywhere and then,once we started getting on
these calls and hearing aboutPubMed, I'm like let me spend
some time in there.
And you're like, oh well, thisis actually evidence-based
research and it's all differentelements from clinical trials to
published studies, to you knowevery step along the way.
(26:51):
It's all there and at least youknow that it has some sort of
standard.
You can't like I can't justcome in as a lay person and say
here, I'm going to publish onPubMed.
You have to have some Right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Peer-reviewed scientific journals.
And Dr Hoffman says the samething.
Where's the evidence?
I wanted to say something toyour listeners too, though.
One of the reasons why I reallyI would question the
conventional treatment is thatthe recurrence rates for many
cancers are super high.
Even for breast cancer, mycancer, it's like 30%.
(27:26):
So it makes a thinking personsay if there's a 30% recurrence
then conventional treatments arenot enough.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Exactly Spot on Right , and it's so important to think
like when, when they tell youthese things, they don't, they
don't give you that bit ofknowledge.
They just say this is what youneed to do and follow it along
and you know it'll come in thepapers or whatever.
But you got to think foryourself a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, and I would also advise people who are going
to do cancer treatment to lookat every side effect or symptom
of every treatment they do, andthen you make the informed
decision of what you're willingto risk and what you can put up
with.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That is the best advice I could, I could hear or
give.
You know every single thing youdo is going to have a positive
potential outcome.
And it's going to have a cost,and it may be a cost of a
difficulty of managing a dietthat's hard to hard to follow,
(28:31):
or it may be uh, you know theside effects of chemotherapy
which I'm currently goingthrough and it's not fun.
But when you say okay, thenwhat's that benefit going to be?
Is it a sure benefit or ahighly likely benefit?
And you can risk it.
You know, you can assess it,you know, when it comes to the
(28:53):
things like the radiation,that's where I draw the line.
I was like, just like theradiation, that's where I draw
the line.
I was like, just like thesurgery, it's like, well, unless
, like I know somebody who had acancer that was completely
encapsulated, they were able tocompletely remove it and it was
(29:13):
a result of, I believe, thecannabis oil he was taken and it
just made a big difference.
The body wrapped it up in a, ina mass, and and the surgeon was
able to just completely get ridof it.
But generally that doesn'thappen.
It puts tentacles in and itgoes into everything and it just
seems almost like there's noway that that's a good idea,
(29:35):
unless you can get it all or youcan cut so far away from it.
Then what do you?
What are you left with?
Right, you maim your body sobadly that is that worth it.
And then radiation Same thingLike I don't know anybody who's
ever gone through radiationthat's like wow, that worked out
great it radiation can cause asecondary cancer, exactly.
(29:55):
And it generally does, and itcauses all these side effects
and lingering forever sideeffects, and it can knock the
cancer out.
But you know, you look at the,the high likelihood of these
problems and and these potentialother problems that you're.
You have to look at that andsay, well, if I don't do it and
(30:21):
there's some other thing that Icould do, I don't know.
It just seems like logic woulddictate that you might want to
go down that road.
It's a lot of work though, andI think that's a big part of it.
I think a lot of people,especially if you have cancer,
it depletes you.
I mean, it's a very drainingexperience emotionally,
physically, mentally, and tohave to muster up the energy to
(30:45):
go and do these difficult thingswhile you're dealing with it.
I don't think a lot of peoplehave that wherewithal.
I think that's a big reason whypeople just follow.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I want to make a comment about the methionine
restricted diet.
Yes, so I know it's not theeasiest diet to follow.
It's a whole plant-based lowprotein diet.
Basically.
However, I will tell you, fordecades I tried to be vegetarian
and vegan.
I could never do it because Icome from, like the typical
(31:16):
omnivore family, and you knowboys are having meat and seafood
, but once.
I got my cancer diagnosis.
That was it.
Yeah, it was like the sword ofcancer hanging over my head.
Yeah, I think I will becomeplant based.
And it became easy because thedecision was kind of like know,
(31:37):
do I eat for life, for a healthylife, or do I eat to hurt
myself or to encourage thecancer?
And I was like there was no wayI could come.
I was confused.
It was like there's nojustification for health exactly
100.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
It does make it easy.
You just have to decide this iswhat I want and this is what,
and when you understand though Ithink once you get that, that
understanding like I know, thatwas the one thing when I made
that switch and I says, okay,I'm going to do this, and then I
watched this thing startshrinking, I watched this thing
work and that was the one thingI did, like that was the primary
(32:14):
thing I did.
All the other things I knowhelped, but I know that was the
big thing, and the evidence isthere.
Everybody that has been on thisdiet, everybody that follows it
, has, at very least, some verypositive results, and I think
(32:36):
most of the people that don'thave those positive results
aren't following it.
I think, frankly, that itreally is a silver bullet and it
does make it easy.
It's like and you know, I justgot back from a vacation and I
took a little brief break.
I doubled up my methionine aidsand I just I just said you know
what I to have a hamburger.
(32:56):
I haven't had a hamburger infour months and I had one, and I
had four doses of methionineaids afterward and I said to
hell with it.
One, one time one thing, but Iguarantee you, now that I'm back
, I'm boom right back on it,stronger than ever.
In fact, I'm even fasting tojust to reset and and, and I
(33:17):
know that that matters.
I know that it works and Ithink really that's a key to all
of this.
I think with general health, Ithink a lot of it is just making
these choices.
There are things we know thatwork and we just have to make
those decisions.
I'd like to hear a little bitabout your blog.
I know we're running a littlelow on time, but I definitely
(33:38):
I'm interested and I'm going tobe interviewing you for your
blog, so I'm interested in you.
Know how?
Where do you go with that?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah.
So I just wanted a place whereI could put down the things that
I was going through on myjourney and I have some profiles
of various people who have gonethrough the methionine
restricted diet and been verysuccessful.
So you know, there's a profileof Gene Slattery, and Blaine
Lesane is on there too, andanother people from the Nori
(34:12):
side.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I enjoy doing it.
I enjoy doing it and I hopethat I can compile this along
with the scientific documentsand make a really readable lay
to 15 years behind what theknowledge is.
And this knowledge is cuttingout there.
I mean, they just did asymposium and they have leading
(34:48):
scientific experts talking aboutthis.
There's hundreds and hundredsof published papers.
Dr Hoffman published many ofthem but the point is, the
research is out there, there isevidence, there's proof of this,
and yet every doctor I'vetalked known about the
methionine effect on cancersince 1959.
, Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So that's a long time , but I kind of compare it to
the tobacco and cancercontroversy right, yeah.
We knew about tobacco'sinfluence on lung cancers in the
1920s and 30s and basicallynothing was done until the 80s,
so that's like 15 more years.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
How many people died and how many people could have
lived Well.
I think that what we're doingis important and that's the
reason why I talk incessantlyabout this every chance I get,
and I love talking with peopleand sharing their stories, and
especially when you have asuccess story.
So tell me about your currentstate.
You've been cancer-free for howlong now?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I guess about two and a half years.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Nice, nice.
And how often do you get yourtest?
When was the last time you hada test?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, I had a test in January, so later this month or
early.
July I'm going to have anotherscan.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So how do you feel Like every time you're about to
get one, do you still get alittle anxious?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I still get a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah.
It's called scansiety yeah,totally, totally.
I hear you.
I've got one coming up in theend of the month.
After you know, it's been sinceJanuary since I've had one and
in January I had this giant lumpsticking out of my neck.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And you look great, Joe.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I'm hoping you know that what's left is dead and
they're not going to find anyactivity and we're going to be
on to a new chapter in this.
But you talk about some skinanxiety.
I've got it for sure already.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, Cynthia, it's been an absolute pleasure
talking with you and, you know,anytime you have anything you'd
like to share on your healthjourney, you've got a seat at
the table here.
I would like to give you yourchance to share how anybody can
get a hold of you, pitch yourblog again, and anything you
want to share.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Sure, Well, my website is
Cynthiaynthiachinleycom and ifyou look there you can see the
blog is one of the tabs.
So you can read the blog and Ireally appreciate being part of
this and sending the word outthere that there are a lot of
other ways to treat cancer thanthe standard protocol and in
fact, you need to go beyond theprotocol.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much, cynthia.
And this fact you need to gobeyond the protocol Absolutely
Well.
Thank you so much, cynthia.
And this has been anotheredition of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Gromline,and we will see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have a very special
guest.
Her name is Cynthia Chin Leeand we actually know each other
for the past several months, andCynthia is a children's book
author, a high-tech retiree anda cancer thriver and that's
(00:24):
actually what we have in common.
But her story goes a monthafter retiring from a career in
high-tech, she received adiagnosis of cancer and you know
, as anybody knows, that rocksyour world and people react so
very differently, and I thinkthat's a wonderful way to enter
(00:47):
into this picture.
A terrible thing to have incommon.
But as it turns out, you know,we can turn these things into an
inspiration and a tool, apathway to health.
Cynthia, welcome to the podcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm doing well surviving cancer and survivors
and people learning about how todo that get together and share
our thoughts and ideas.
But you certainly have anincredible story and I'd sure
love to hear a little more aboutit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Sure, a month after I retired from my high-tech
career and I was enjoying myself, and then I went for my annual
mammogram and the doctor saidwell, I think we see something,
and I got called back.
The first argument I had waswhen the doctor suggested biopsy
(02:00):
, because my husband, whosefather had passed away of lung
cancer and had a biopsy, was asubject of controversy Because,
as we know, biopsy and surgerycan sometimes cause cancer to
spread story too, because, youknow, I had this giant lump
(02:27):
sticking out of my neck and theywere telling me well, the only
way we're going to know for surewhat it is is to take a biopsy.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
But my first instinct was, well, I don't want that,
because you're going to spreadit, I mean.
But then they're telling methat there's no way to know
beyond a shadow of a doubt whatit is unless you take a piece
out.
So what was your thoughts onthat?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So you know, I wanted to know what I had.
My husband didn't want me to dothe biopsy, but I decided I
would take the risk.
And later, when I did moreresearch, I did find that the
statistics for biopsy seedingcancer, at least for breast
cancer, is about 3%.
Yeah, you are.
(03:07):
You have to weigh the pros andcons.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Exactly Everything seems to be a double-edged sword
in this world.
There's no like for sure.
This will help you or hurt you.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Right.
So I ended up doing the biopsyand they said, yeah, it's
invasive lobular carcinoma.
Fortunately for me, it's aestrogen positive breast cancer,
which, if you're going to havea breast cancer, it's good to
have, you know, a hormonepositive breast cancer because
they have drugs, medicines thatcan help you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Isn't it wild?
Like for people who don't knowanything about cancer.
That's like they think it'sjust this one word and it means
this one thing.
But it means so many differentthings and the causes of cancer
many times affect the ways thatit can be treated and even the
survival rate, like in mysituation.
(03:58):
It was the same thing.
Mine was HPV driven instead ofbad choices driven, hpv driven
instead of bad choices driven,and it made the difference
between a 40, 45% survival rateto 90, 95% survival rate and and
different treatment options.
So you were in the same samesituation.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, so you know, going to a regular doctor, the
opinion was surgery andradiation.
But within 30 days and I wentback and I did more research.
And I was lucky because I had afriend, sue Ann Kaiser, who's
another children's book author,and I had seen her get breast
(04:37):
cancer 18 years earlier.
She did surgery, but when thedoctors went back and said more
surgery, you didn't get clearmargins, as they call it, so
they didn't cut away all thecancer.
She said no, she stepped back,she changed her diet, she
started doing lots of things andI witnessed that just as a
friend when.
(04:58):
I got my diagnosis, I called herup and I said okay, sue Ann,
tell me how you did it.
What did you do?
I called her up and I said okay, Sue Ann, tell me how you did
it.
What did you do?
And I realized that there are alot of other treatments that
are less invasive than surgeryand radiation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Well, you know the problem with surgery people
don't realize.
People are like, oh, just cutit out.
But the problem with cancer isany little bit that's left
behind is going to spread andyou're in there looking around
and you might not see it all.
And you know the scans can seeit, but the human eye can't
necessarily see it and theremight be cellular masses that
(05:36):
aren't big enough to even seethat they think they cut away
and unless it's somehowencapsulated there's no way to
be sure.
And you know they go and almostlike give you some extra time.
But you know that cancer growsfast as it can.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, you know.
What makes it worse is they'vedone a lot of animal studies and
they show when you surgicallyremove the primary tumor, you
actually stimulate the othercancer that's floating around in
your body.
So there's a possibility thatsurgery is making things worse.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Exactly.
Yeah, People don't know aboutcirculating tumor cells that are
just literally like.
As soon as a mass gets bigenough, it starts breaking
pieces off and just floatsaround the blood just looking
for another place to land, andthere's no way to catch it.
It's just there until you makethem die.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so I gently told my doctors that hey, you
know what I really don't want todo?
Surgery.
Give me at least six months andI'm going to change my diet and
I'm going to do supplements andI'm going to do letrozole,
which is the hormone blocker,and they said you know, we
normally don't give youletrozole until you do surgery.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You must do surgery first right.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I said well, please, you know, give it to me before
surgery.
And you know, if things getreally wildly bad, then maybe
I'll consider surgery.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You can always go and get surgery, but you can't
un-get it once you have it Rightexactly.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So I was very fortunate I found Mark Simon and
Dr Hoffman and the methioninerestrictive diet, which is
pretty much a low protein, wholefood plant-based diet.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
A rough road.
Yeah, so tell me how did youfind Dr Hoffman?
Because I'd like to hear abouthow everybody stumbles into his
world.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I found Dr Hoffman through Mark Simon Okay College
of Research Institute.
They used to do the Zoomstogether.
And then they kind of like dothem separately.
But I also found Mark Simonthrough Chris work.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, he has a program called Chris beat cancer
.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, I've read his book and I know who.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I you know did his program and through mostly
strong.
Have you heard of feelingstrong?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, through healing .
So I went on his website and Isaid, oh, there's this support
group called Healing Strong.
So I kind of joined HealingStrong for a few years, and then
from a woman I met throughHealing Strong.
She strongly encouraged me tolook at Mark Simon, and then
Mark encouraged me to look at DrHoffman's stuff so I've done
(08:26):
methionin a's and I do the lowmethionine diet, but it it
basically worked for me yeah sowhat was?
Very tell me what happened likeyou.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You started taking the hormone blocker.
You shifted your diet um.
Did you start taking themethionine a's right away, or
did you?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I did not take it right away because I don't think
I was a perfect candidate forit.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
OK.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So I was taking the nutritional oncology's
nutraceuticals the norinutraceuticals.
And then about, yeah, sixmonths after my diagnosis.
I was lucky in that I had aclinical trial for imaging.
So for women it's mainly womenwith estrogen positive breast
(09:15):
cancer they have a new.
They have a PET scan that'sestrogen based.
So for for people that don'tknow, so for people that don't
know, very often cancer isimaged through a PET scan and
the.
PET scan.
The standard is a glucose PETscan, Correct?
But I, because I hadestrogen-positive breast cancer,
qualified for this clinicaltrial of an estrogen PET scan.
(09:38):
So it was an NIH Department ofDefense clinical trial.
So it was an NIH Department ofDefense clinical trial.
So I got my baseline estrogenPET scan at the beginning of my
diagnosis and it confirmed thebiopsy which was high intake of
estrogen on my right breast atthe same spot.
And then, as part of theclinical trial, you do another
(10:00):
estrogen PET scan.
They call it a MAMI PET M-A-M-I, so it's a MAMmy pet after six
months.
So it's really ironic.
But the same week that I getthis phone call from UCSF, I'm
in the Bay Area.
So UCSF is where I got mymedical care.
They called me and said hey,you missed your appointment for
(10:22):
the anesthesiologist.
And I said what they said yeah,you have surgery appointment
for the anesthesiologist and Isaid what they said yeah, you
have surgery scheduled for nextweek.
Whoa, yeah, I know.
And I said no, just cancel that, please, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think we'll pass on the surgery.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I'm gonna pass on the surgery.
But that week I also had mysecond mammy pet.
The second pet scan and scanshowed that there was no uptake
of estrogen.
So basically no evidence ofdisease wow no yeah, the, the
phd person that was doing thepet scan, the she was really
(10:58):
happy.
She said come over here andtake a look at this, not that.
I can relate to it.
She said you have reversed it,so that was just great news.
I continued on, though I mean,I don't take it for granted and
then at one point, I think likea month or two later, I felt
like I was getting too littleprotein, and I wanted to.
(11:21):
I did a blood test and thatkind of confirmed it, but I also
had symptoms, so I wanted totry to get protein on that diet.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's a rough right.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, I wanted to eat a little more protein and
that's when I went on thethionase okay because Mark said
hey, talk to Dr Hoffman.
If you're gonna even increaseyour plant-based protein, right,
you should take the methionine.
So that's when I went onmethionine.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So you know, the thing is is, once you have
mutated cells, once you have amass of any kind, you have a
problem for life.
It doesn't you know it's, youhave circulating tumor cells and
there's no way to detect it.
I mean you can test, you cantest for markers, you can test
for, like in my case, it's avirus.
(12:06):
So they have a test, they candetect the virus presence in my
blood and if it's not there,well, the particular cancer that
I have caused by that virus isprobably not going to be there.
But that doesn't mean somethingelse or something hasn't
mutated.
I mean, there's just no way.
There isn't really a fail safe.
So once you know that your bodyhas mutated in this way,
(12:30):
there's a high likelihood thatit'll do it again if given the
chance and that gives you kindof a life's work of not giving
it a chance.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That's right and you're lucky.
You have a marker test, so Ialso have a blood marker test
that I can do.
It's the.
Ca-3.
And the other good part aboutmy cancer journey was I would go
in for a scan every six monthsand it's an ultrasound.
The doctors want to do MRI withgadolinium and I just had read
(13:07):
so much negative stuff aboutgadolinium I said no, I said
I'll do an MRI without thegadolinium and then they said,
well, that's not going to helpus, or they.
They can't get off of theirprotocol.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I know they're so stuck on their standard.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So I said Well, hey, I won't do the MRI with contrast
, but I'll do ultrasound and Iwill do mammograms.
So I would go in every sixmonths for my ultrasound.
I'm still doing it and, likewithin a year and a half, my
tumor shrank down to notdetectable.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I love it.
So this is something that Iexperienced, and I'm sure you
did as well.
So you have this sort of Idon't know dance.
You have to do with thesephysicians.
You know, like there are thingsthat only a doctor can order,
you can't like.
In my case, I requested thisparticular chemo cocktail.
(13:55):
I can't go to Amazon and orderit.
You know you have to have aphysician approve it, insurance
has to deal with it, and so youhave to have a friendly
relationship with these peoplethat are there to assist you,
help you, heal you, bring youwhatever it is you need.
(14:16):
But the truth is you're the onewho has to be in control and
you have to kind of manage that.
And some doctors are more Idon't know opinionated or
forceful or strong-willed thanothers, and others will listen.
So you know how did you findyour experience with these
(14:37):
doctors?
You know surgery.
You can always say no to asurgery, but when it comes to
scans and procedures and testsand things like that, like they
get it in their mind it has tobe this way and you have to in
some way convince them thatyou're not fighting them.
But you just don't want thisthing.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I have to negotiate it with the doctors
and sometimes they'll listen andsometimes they won't.
For some of the blood tests,like the marker for my breast
cancer, they won't do becausethey said they don't believe in
it.
So I pay out of pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
But a few of the things.
I convinced them to order theblood test, like they ordered
the blood test for B12 andvitamin d, because those are
markers that they said, okay, weknow you're vegan, so, yeah,
you want to have the test, sothey ordered it.
Um, it's also the same way withthe imaging.
I had to negotiate with themlike, okay, I'll do this, I'll
(15:38):
do the ultrasound, but I won'tdo the mri, heavy contrast.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know they, these, these scans.
People don't realize that theamount of radiation and the, the
contrast agents, and you know,some of these can be extremely
toxic and it's not like you getit once, like you're going to be
scanned barely regularly forprobably the rest of your life
(16:07):
and you have to determine foryourself how much of that are
you willing to take and is theresome other way?
My experience is that theydon't tell you about any other
thing.
They say this is what we'regoing to do and you're either
going to say yes or no to it.
But it's on you really tofigure out what other options
(16:28):
are out there and maybe evenlooking at different doctors.
Who is a genetic brilliant manand understands a lot of things
about cancers and repurposeddrugs and other ways around,
(16:51):
things that many doctorswouldn't, and my insurance
happened to cover him as well.
So I was able to go and seethis other doctor.
But you're up in the Bay Area.
That's quite a trek down.
There's probably anotherintegrative oncologist or
somebody who has other thoughtsand ideas if you needed.
(17:12):
But how do you find them?
It's sort of maze and turns outa big network is a big deal.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I was lucky that UCSF had anintegrative oncologist, but it
was funny because he did noteven agree with my going
plant-based.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Really.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
He just said reduce your meat.
But you know he was the onethat ordered some of the blood
tests for me and that's why I'mso grateful for Dr Hoffman's
Zoom and Mark Simon's Zoom,because there's really a
community of the patients, thecancer patients, who want to do
the integrative and lessinvasive treatments, and we
(17:55):
learn from one another so much.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It's such an important tool and I'm always
talking about that call I mean,I haven't been on Mark Simon's
call but I'll probably join thatone day simply just because the
experience of all thesedifferent people is where I've
gained so much knowledge andeven ideas.
You know, like Dr Exime andsome of his things, and him and
(18:19):
I have become close and justmeeting with people like you and
I are getting to know eachother and turns out we've got a
lot in common.
And I think that you know whenyou go to a doctor they're going
to.
They read out of a playbook,they have their standard of care
, that they're trained and,depending on what their
specialty is, they're going tohave their playbook.
(18:39):
And I had a surgeon tell me onething.
I had a radiation oncologisttell me, well, don't do the
surgery.
And then I have a medicaloncologist tell me, well, you
have to do the radiation and thechemo.
And then I had an integrativeoncologist through UCI.
So we're both in the same UCsystem, but I'm in UC Irvine and
(19:01):
she had a lot of great ideasand she has never got back to me
.
And so this is all you know andthis is after I had internal
medicine, so you probably don'thave cancer.
So you know, I let mine sit fornine months just thinking I was
going to get over it.
And you know these doctors, manypeople when they get diagnosed
(19:23):
I think they just automaticallyjust do what they're told.
And I think that's where somany problems come from.
And part of it, I think, is ittakes a special kind of person
that just says you know,obviously you have a tremendous
will to live because you wentthrough the effort.
I'm the same way.
I mean, I love every minute ofmy life and I was like I'm not
(19:45):
going to risk.
Once I realized I was facing adifficulty like that, I was like
, well, I'm not going to stop tosolve this thing.
Is that kind of what drove you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, I believe in questioning authority and I have
a blog for anyone who mightwant to read it.
It's CynthiaChinley dot comslash blog and I think there are
lots of truths that we live ourlife and we also see that
society will perpetrate manyuntruths or evil or you know,
(20:19):
and we have to question allthose things Indeed.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, I think that, as we're going through like I
don't know about you Once mycommunity.
I've been an activist for manyyears on a lot of levels and I
question everything as well.
I think we have a lot of thatin common.
But I have a lot of people thatyou know cared.
I've helped a lot of peoplewith cancer, but I had a lot of
(20:44):
people that you know cared.
I've helped a lot of peoplewith cancer.
I've been working with cannabismedicine for 40 years and made
cannabis oil and it's helped alot of people.
It didn't help me, but it'shelped a lot of people and
everybody seemed to have an idea.
Did you find that?
Did everybody come to you with?
You got to try this, you got totry that.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Or were you just, yeah, you know absolutely,
because even when you do yourown web research, there are tons
of different ideas andtreatments.
I went to doctors that haddifferent ideas and you know, I
just decided I would do thethings that personally made
sense to me.
Not everything that'snon-conventional makes sense to
(21:24):
me, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
And there's a lot of things there's.
Frankly, you know, I've been inthe natural medicine world for,
like I said, a good 40 years.
I make natural products and Iwork with all kinds of herbs and
supplements and minerals andall kinds of things.
But the truth is there isn'tone answer for everybody and the
thing that helped this guy overhere may or may not help you
(21:47):
and half the people out therejust trying to sell this thing
and maybe they have someevidence that it does a thing,
but that doesn't make it.
So there's so muchmisinformation, there's so much
sort of bits and pieces ofinformation and then at the end
of the day you have to decideand you know you come to sort of
bits and pieces of informationand then at the end of the day,
you have to decide and you knowyou come to sort of I don't know
(22:09):
.
I found that I came to learn mybody really well.
My body and I communicateextremely well.
Now that I've dealt with this,where maybe before I didn't pay
so much attention, did you findthat?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, and there's so much individual variety that a
medical doctor can't know aboutyou as an individual.
You know I found recently thatI was allergic to some
antihistamine and then my sonwas allergic to three sets of
antibiotics he was given andit's like it's not predictable.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, and the other thing too is your body changes.
So you know, I went through myyoung life allergic to these
certain things and then Ioutgrew them and then later on I
became allergic to anotherthing and it's like, well, what
the heck?
You know, there's no rhyme orreason.
You don't get a flag that says,hey, something's changing in
there, it just changes.
(23:01):
And all of a sudden you get asymptom.
And then you know you got tofigure it out or you don't.
You know, I think most of uswalk around with a lot of
symptoms, of things that wedon't either notice or we don't.
They don't bother us enough, orwe cover them up with a thing.
And you know, cancer hidesunderneath everything.
It seems it it'll mask itselfor it'll it'll.
(23:22):
You might have this symptomthat you think is an allergy or
a reaction to something, and itmay be something entirely
different.
I think, like there's so manyoptions, like when you look up
alternative cancer therapies.
There's just like hundreds.
You know there's supplementsand herbs and fruits, and you
(23:47):
know diet varieties and you knowthe first thing you hear about
is you know sugar, right, that'sthe big thing.
You know.
And in this group that we're in, most people, I think, started
it down that route and you know,we go down, we cut the carbs
and the sugar out, think we'regoing to starve the cancer and
we don't know anything aboutthis methionine addiction.
(24:09):
And it really doesn't matter.
Cancer doesn't care.
If it's getting its methionine,it'll eat whatever you got.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
and so you got cancer has a tricky way of adapting.
But you know, the methionineaddiction of cancer is a
universal hallmark of mostcancers yes, exactly once I
discovered that, I started going.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know what?
There are some pillars that Ican rely on and I started really
narrowing my cause.
I was doing everything too.
I mean, I was trying, I had allthese different supplements and
you know, drinking the teas andand the diet, and doing
everything I could.
Cause I was going to doeverything I could and but then
after a while I started goingokay, well, how do you know if
(24:53):
this is helping you or not?
Right, you're taking 20 thingsand you don't know if you're
really getting better or not.
Then it comes down to and Ithink you know Dr Exame is
really strong about that it'slike what's the evidence say?
You know, is there?
Is there something that saysthis helps everybody, or most
people?
And so, when it comes down tothe diet and the things like the
(25:17):
methionine restriction andoxygen therapy, and there are
certain things, cancer doesn'tlike oxygen.
There's no cancer that likesoxygen.
So you're like, ok, well, if youcould oxygenate your body a
little better, you're going tohelp yourself.
You're going to create anenvironment where the cancer is
not going to do so well, notgoing to do so well.
(25:39):
So there are certain thingsthat I've come upon that I say,
well, if I'm going to spend mytime, because it comes down to
like, how much energy can youput to treating yourself right?
You know, I mean that's onething that's been difficult for
me.
It's like when it was goingafter me hard, I had to put
everything on the side andthat's the only thing I did.
Well, guess what?
You could do a lot when youcould dedicate your whole life
to a thing.
But then you start getting yourlife back and all of a sudden
(26:01):
you're like well, how do youmanage it all?
And how did you manage all thedifferent treatments and
therapies along with the rest ofyour life?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, I did follow Dr Exame's advice.
I look for people who can showme the evidence.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So show me that.
So I would look at those papersthat are on the web.
And you know, in PubMed the NIHmedical library Turns out.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Pubmed's quite a great tool.
I searched everywhere and then,once we started getting on
these calls and hearing aboutPubMed, I'm like let me spend
some time in there.
And you're like, oh well, thisis actually evidence-based
research and it's all differentelements from clinical trials to
published studies, to you knowevery step along the way.
(26:51):
It's all there and at least youknow that it has some sort of
standard.
You can't like I can't justcome in as a lay person and say
here, I'm going to publish onPubMed.
You have to have some Right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Peer-reviewed scientific journals.
And Dr Hoffman says the samething.
Where's the evidence?
I wanted to say something toyour listeners too, though.
One of the reasons why I reallyI would question the
conventional treatment is thatthe recurrence rates for many
cancers are super high.
Even for breast cancer, mycancer, it's like 30%.
(27:26):
So it makes a thinking personsay if there's a 30% recurrence
then conventional treatments arenot enough.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Exactly Spot on Right , and it's so important to think
like when, when they tell youthese things, they don't, they
don't give you that bit ofknowledge.
They just say this is what youneed to do and follow it along
and you know it'll come in thepapers or whatever.
But you got to think foryourself a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah, and I would also advise people who are going
to do cancer treatment to lookat every side effect or symptom
of every treatment they do, andthen you make the informed
decision of what you're willingto risk and what you can put up
with.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That is the best advice I could, I could hear or
give.
You know every single thing youdo is going to have a positive
potential outcome.
And it's going to have a cost,and it may be a cost of a
difficulty of managing a dietthat's hard to hard to follow,
(28:31):
or it may be uh, you know theside effects of chemotherapy
which I'm currently goingthrough and it's not fun.
But when you say okay, thenwhat's that benefit going to be?
Is it a sure benefit or ahighly likely benefit?
And you can risk it.
You know, you can assess it,you know, when it comes to the
(28:53):
things like the radiation,that's where I draw the line.
I was like, just like theradiation, that's where I draw
the line.
I was like, just like thesurgery, it's like, well, unless
, like I know somebody who had acancer that was completely
encapsulated, they were able tocompletely remove it and it was
(29:13):
a result of, I believe, thecannabis oil he was taken and it
just made a big difference.
The body wrapped it up in a, ina mass, and and the surgeon was
able to just completely get ridof it.
But generally that doesn'thappen.
It puts tentacles in and itgoes into everything and it just
seems almost like there's noway that that's a good idea,
(29:35):
unless you can get it all or youcan cut so far away from it.
Then what do you?
What are you left with?
Right, you maim your body sobadly that is that worth it.
And then radiation Same thingLike I don't know anybody who's
ever gone through radiationthat's like wow, that worked out
great it radiation can cause asecondary cancer, exactly.
(29:55):
And it generally does, and itcauses all these side effects
and lingering forever sideeffects, and it can knock the
cancer out.
But you know, you look at the,the high likelihood of these
problems and and these potentialother problems that you're.
You have to look at that andsay, well, if I don't do it and
(30:21):
there's some other thing that Icould do, I don't know.
It just seems like logic woulddictate that you might want to
go down that road.
It's a lot of work though, andI think that's a big part of it.
I think a lot of people,especially if you have cancer,
it depletes you.
I mean, it's a very drainingexperience emotionally,
physically, mentally, and tohave to muster up the energy to
(30:45):
go and do these difficult thingswhile you're dealing with it.
I don't think a lot of peoplehave that wherewithal.
I think that's a big reason whypeople just follow.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
I want to make a comment about the methionine
restricted diet.
Yes, so I know it's not theeasiest diet to follow.
It's a whole plant-based lowprotein diet.
Basically.
However, I will tell you, fordecades I tried to be vegetarian
and vegan.
I could never do it because Icome from, like the typical
(31:16):
omnivore family, and you knowboys are having meat and seafood
, but once.
I got my cancer diagnosis.
That was it.
Yeah, it was like the sword ofcancer hanging over my head.
Yeah, I think I will becomeplant based.
And it became easy because thedecision was kind of like know,
(31:37):
do I eat for life, for a healthylife, or do I eat to hurt
myself or to encourage thecancer?
And I was like there was no wayI could come.
I was confused.
It was like there's nojustification for health exactly
100.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
It does make it easy.
You just have to decide this iswhat I want and this is what,
and when you understand though Ithink once you get that, that
understanding like I know, thatwas the one thing when I made
that switch and I says, okay,I'm going to do this, and then I
watched this thing startshrinking, I watched this thing
work and that was the one thingI did, like that was the primary
(32:14):
thing I did.
All the other things I knowhelped, but I know that was the
big thing, and the evidence isthere.
Everybody that has been on thisdiet, everybody that follows it
, has, at very least, some verypositive results, and I think
(32:36):
most of the people that don'thave those positive results
aren't following it.
I think, frankly, that itreally is a silver bullet and it
does make it easy.
It's like and you know, I justgot back from a vacation and I
took a little brief break.
I doubled up my methionine aidsand I just I just said you know
what I to have a hamburger.
(32:56):
I haven't had a hamburger infour months and I had one, and I
had four doses of methionineaids afterward and I said to
hell with it.
One, one time one thing, but Iguarantee you, now that I'm back
, I'm boom right back on it,stronger than ever.
In fact, I'm even fasting tojust to reset and and, and I
(33:17):
know that that matters.
I know that it works and Ithink really that's a key to all
of this.
I think with general health, Ithink a lot of it is just making
these choices.
There are things we know thatwork and we just have to make
those decisions.
I'd like to hear a little bitabout your blog.
I know we're running a littlelow on time, but I definitely
(33:38):
I'm interested and I'm going tobe interviewing you for your
blog, so I'm interested in you.
Know how?
Where do you go with that?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah.
So I just wanted a place whereI could put down the things that
I was going through on myjourney and I have some profiles
of various people who have gonethrough the methionine
restricted diet and been verysuccessful.
So you know, there's a profileof Gene Slattery, and Blaine
Lesane is on there too, andanother people from the Nori
(34:12):
side.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I enjoy doing it.
I enjoy doing it and I hopethat I can compile this along
with the scientific documentsand make a really readable lay
to 15 years behind what theknowledge is.
And this knowledge is cuttingout there.
I mean, they just did asymposium and they have leading
(34:48):
scientific experts talking aboutthis.
There's hundreds and hundredsof published papers.
Dr Hoffman published many ofthem but the point is, the
research is out there, there isevidence, there's proof of this,
and yet every doctor I'vetalked known about the
methionine effect on cancersince 1959.
, Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
So that's a long time , but I kind of compare it to
the tobacco and cancercontroversy right, yeah.
We knew about tobacco'sinfluence on lung cancers in the
1920s and 30s and basicallynothing was done until the 80s,
so that's like 15 more years.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
How many people died and how many people could have
lived Well.
I think that what we're doingis important and that's the
reason why I talk incessantlyabout this every chance I get,
and I love talking with peopleand sharing their stories, and
especially when you have asuccess story.
So tell me about your currentstate.
You've been cancer-free for howlong now?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
I guess about two and a half years.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Nice, nice.
And how often do you get yourtest?
When was the last time you hada test?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, I had a test in January, so later this month or
early.
July I'm going to have anotherscan.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So how do you feel Like every time you're about to
get one, do you still get alittle anxious?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, I still get a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah.
It's called scansiety yeah,totally, totally.
I hear you.
I've got one coming up in theend of the month.
After you know, it's been sinceJanuary since I've had one and
in January I had this giant lumpsticking out of my neck.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
And you look great, Joe.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I'm hoping you know that what's left is dead and
they're not going to find anyactivity and we're going to be
on to a new chapter in this.
But you talk about some skinanxiety.
I've got it for sure already.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, Cynthia, it's been an absolute pleasure
talking with you and, you know,anytime you have anything you'd
like to share on your healthjourney, you've got a seat at
the table here.
I would like to give you yourchance to share how anybody can
get a hold of you, pitch yourblog again, and anything you
want to share.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Sure, Well, my website is
Cynthiaynthiachinleycom and ifyou look there you can see the
blog is one of the tabs.
So you can read the blog and Ireally appreciate being part of
this and sending the word outthere that there are a lot of
other ways to treat cancer thanthe standard protocol and in
fact, you need to go beyond theprotocol.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much, cynthia.
And this fact you need to gobeyond the protocol Absolutely
Well.
Thank you so much, cynthia.
And this has been anotheredition of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Gromline,and we will see you next time.
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