May 11, 2025 • 29 mins
What if everything you thought you knew about fitness was missing the most crucial element? Despite billions spent on gym memberships, supplements, and equipment, global health continues to decline. The answer may lie not in what we do, but in who we do it with.
In this enlightening conversation, David Amerland—chemical engineer, martial artist with 47 years of experience, and author of "Built to Last: The Ultimate Guide to Sustainable Fitness and Longevity"—challenges conventional fitness wisdom. Drawing from science and personal experience, he reveals why social connection might be the missing ingredient in your health journey.
Amerland explores the fascinating paradox of blue zones—regions where people live extraordinarily long, healthy lives despite lacking fancy gyms or expensive health products. These communities share two powerful commonalities: strong social bonds and consistent movement integrated naturally into daily life. By contrast, westernized approaches often treat fitness as an uncomfortable add-on to already stressful lives, explaining why 85% of January gym-goers quit by May.
The conversation delves into the neuroscience of motivation, exploring how our brains calculate effort versus reward and why emotional connection to our health goals fundamentally changes this equation. Amerland offers a refreshingly practical framework: make fitness personal (meaningful to you), possible (easy to implement), and persistent (something you can do daily).
Whether you're just beginning your health journey or looking to maintain vitality as you age, this episode provides actionable insights for creating sustainable fitness practices that evolve with you. Discover why one-minute workouts might be more effective than hour-long gym sessions, and how understanding your unique needs creates lasting change where cookie-cutter programs fail.
Subscribe now and join the conversation about building habits that truly last. Your future self will thank you.
Intro for podcast
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have a very special
guest.
His name's David Amerlund, andDavid is an author and much more
than that, but he's got a bookcalled Built to Last the
Ultimate Guide to SustainableFitness and Longevity the
Ultimate Guide to SustainableFitness and Longevity and, if
(00:24):
you know, this podcast, we'reall about sustainable fitness,
longevity and health and all theways that we can get there, and
David and I had a conversationa little while ago that I just
thought we've got more than justan interview here.
We'll probably be workingtogether for a while.
So, david, welcome to the show.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Joe, it's great to be here.
I'm actually really excitedabout this conversation and
curious to see how far it willtake us.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, absolutely.
As always, the sky's the limit.
We can go wherever you know.
Let's just get started firstabout this book.
Obviously, anybody who takesthe time to take their
experience and put it to paper,if you've ever authored a book,
it's a lot of work, and not justin gathering your thoughts, but
(01:17):
refining them and editing themand having them reviewed and all
this stuff.
It's's a big project.
So this clearly was animportant, uh, passion project
for you.
Why don't you tell me about youknow what?
What caused you to go thisroute?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
yeah, thank you for that and you're absolutely right
.
I mean, a book essentially isstructured thinking, so it's
taking all the things which wehave in our head and all the
things we can find out in theexternal world which corroborate
our thoughts and our theories,and actually making all that
make sense, and that's anendeavor in its own right.
It's always very difficult, butit's also very enlightening.
And the reason, you know, Inever intended to be honest,
(01:58):
never intended to write a bookabout fitness ever.
And the reason I would never, Iwas never intending to write
anything like that is becausefitness for me is something
which I do personally for myselfto help keep my head clear and
my brain thinking okay and myemotions emotions in control.
And I've been training fitnesssince 13.
(02:19):
I'm a chemical engineer by um.
I have authored books on searchand digital marketing and trust
and decision making andintentional living, and in all
those different books the threadis us people.
How do we behave?
(02:39):
Why do we do some things insome contexts and then we don't
do the things which we should bedoing in the same contexts.
And every time I go looking foranswers and peel back the
layers of human behavior, well,obviously I encounter wonders,
but also I encounter thingswhich are very functional, which
we can actually learn from andapply.
We all have an operating codeinside us and the more we
(03:04):
understand that code, the betterwe can become at who we want to
become.
But back to the question of whyI didn't want to do a book on
fitness is because I've beentraining in martial arts since I
was 13.
I'm 60 now, so I've beentraining for 47 years.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Nice you might know what it takes you right.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
In that period.
I have never had a day when Ididn't do something in my life
and I competed.
I've got a black belt in threedifferent martial arts.
I'm a second degree black beltin taekwondo.
I'm a certified black taekwondoinstructor and I competed
nationally and internationallyfor 10 years between 1991 and
2000.
(03:46):
And the reason I never intendedto do anything on fitness
professionally is because everytime somebody asked me, you know
what should I do to get fit?
You know what should I do to behealthy?
I would always think, well, howcan I possibly tell you,
because you're different from me, Whatever works for me isn't
going to work for you.
And being prescriptive,creating sort of a formula which
(04:08):
makes everybody sort ofshoehorn themselves into it, is
never going to work, and we knowthis for a fact.
I mean, we have hundreds ofthousands of fitness books
telling you to do something andthey don't work.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And they all work for somebody, but not necessarily
for you.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Absolutely Well, this is it, isn't it?
So, statistically, they willwork for some people, but they
will not work for others, andthose people will not know why
they don't work for them.
It's the same thing with dietbooks Some diets will work for
people and some will not, andI've even had studies where,
about 10 years ago,high-intensity interval training
(04:48):
HIIT was really a big fad andeverybody was doing it because
it helps you burn fat faster.
It helps accelerate yourfitness.
If you're trying to get fit,it's the only viable shortcut
that actually exists.
It does a lot of good things fora lot of people, yes, and then
there were studies of people whotried HIV and they actually put
on weight Exactly, and it'slike staggering right.
(05:11):
And since then, yeah, we foundso many things since then.
So why this book now?
Because this is what happened.
The pandemic happened and weall got locked up in our houses
and you know, I sort of createda gym for myself in one of the
rooms of my house and I have afriend who has his own home gym
and we get together once a weekand we train.
(05:33):
And if you train with somebodyelse, this is what happens.
The intensity goes up becauseyou don't notice it, You're with
another person, Right?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
You're both pushing a little harder yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Exactly, yes, exactly .
And then there's a socialelement.
You talk right, right.
He would bring some sort ofarticle he'd seen in a magazine
or he would tell me some kind ofthought he came across, and I
would come back with some studyand we'd discuss it and out of
those discussions, over a periodof two years, the seed for this
book was born.
So that's how it actually cameabout.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love it, I love it and you know the dialogue.
Coming back to this, whetherit's a group or just an
individual, a relationship iswhere the growth generally comes
from.
You only have so much in yourhead.
You go in these loops after awhile and if you don't get out
of it with some other stimulus,you just keep looping, and
(06:30):
that's where these conversationsare so important.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yes, I mean, I'm so glad you said that because it's
very wise what you said.
Inside their own head, thestupidest thought sounds
brilliant because it's ourthought.
So we need to bring it out andsay to somebody hey, I'm
thinking about this, and they'llsay this is stupid.
Or they might say this isbrilliant, but we won't know
until we share it.
(06:54):
I think even worse than that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
The stupid thoughts get more and more brilliant,
because you polish them andyou're like, wow, if they could
only see this.
And then you just keep shiningthe same spot and you didn't
realize there was just a dullrock and you're trying to make
it shine and it will never do itabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I love your example, absolutely.
This this happens all the timeinside our head.
And and there's another thinghappens from a neuroscientific
perspective the moment we starttalking with somebody and it
doesn't matter if it's a remoteconversation, a face-to-face our
brains begin to synchronize,our brainwaves begin to
(07:34):
synchronize, and this is one ofthe fundamental ways that the
brain has of recalibratingitself to reality.
So if we were to take ourselvesoff on the most fantastic
holiday in the world for a yearwhere we didn't meet another
person, I can guarantee you thatby the end of the year, we're
going to come back and beextremely eccentric and a bit
(07:56):
polite.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, no, you're 100% right.
Why do you think solitaryconfinement is the most extreme
punishment?
Because works.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It destroys you yes, absolutely unravels your
identity.
You're absolutely right.
All the layers of who you are,all the ways where your behavior
is normalized, all the thingswhich you use to collaborate, um
, how you should behave, they'regone and suddenly you have no,
no guide, so you're on your own.
So, yeah, discussion isabsolutely amazing and obviously
(08:25):
, in the exchange, what happensand I sort of give that example
always when we talk to anotherperson, we're accessing a
database.
We're accessing their wealth ofexperience, their knowledge,
their memories, their wisdom,all those things that make them
them, so they're enriching usjust by talking.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And by doing that, you receive this catalyst, which
is the desire for more and theengagement, and because if you
find some value in it, thenyou're going to seek more, and
that's the thing that reallypropels us.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, absolutely.
And we know also and this issomething which I mentioned in
my writing as well, but we knowfrom studies that the social
component is one of theinescapable pillars of health
and longevity.
Um, there are across the world,there are five areas called
blue zones where people live toa long life and in their
lifespan.
(09:28):
They're also incredibly healthyand obviously they've been
studied extensively.
People looked at their diet,they looked at their exercise,
they looked at how physical, howactive they are every day and
they looked to see if they haveenough stress, their
socioeconomic conditions.
All those things.
And all those things aredifferent, right, because some
are in the islands of Okinawa.
There's one in Greece, in theisland of Ikaria, one in
(09:49):
California.
And one in California.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
That's right, yes, exactly so they're so different
Social element is and movement.
Those are the two commonthreads that I see in all of
those blue zones is they allhave strong family community and
they all keep moving yes,they're all active, as you said,
and the the one thing which iscommon across all of them is a
(10:14):
strong social structure.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, they don't feel alone and and they all
experience stress.
They're not in very wealthysocioeconomic socioeconomic
conditions.
Life is not easy.
They don't have access tomassive resources, but because
they can connect with otherpeople, they mitigate the
long-term impact of stress ontheir bodies, which then is
(10:37):
expressed in an increased healthspan, which is absolutely
fantastic.
Just the sheer fact that webelong somewhere and we feel
that we belong somewhere and wehave people to talk to allows us
to live longer.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That epiphany that is available to everybody would be
the focus of health, and yetthey keep focusing on drugs and
products.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yes, I think there are a lot of.
You said something which isvery simple and it's really
really informationally dense.
We need to unpack it a littlebit.
Certainly we tend to focus onthat because from a cultural
perspective, that's what appearsaccessible to us.
Nobody tells us about thesocial element.
We don't understand the impactat a neurochemical level, a
(11:27):
neurobiological level, aphysical level, so we're not
educated enough in that kind ofaspect of our lives.
And also there is an incentivefor the world around us, right
for us to, to spend money to tryto become healthier by taking,
(11:48):
you know, a pharmacologicalapproach perhaps to to good
health, when it's not reallynecessary and we could do
something else.
So all that takes us down a pathwhere and I mentioned this in
countless sort of opportunitieswe ultimately have to become
responsible for us, forourselves, because no one is
(12:11):
going to come and save us.
No one really ultimately caresfor us once we get past a
certain productive age,ultimately cares for us once we
get past a certain productiveage.
So we need to be responsiblefor us and we need to say okay,
we have a right to be happy, wehave a right to be healthy, we
have a right to feel in controlof our body.
And the moment we say that toourselves, then we have to ask
(12:33):
what can I do within the meansthat I have, within the
resources that I have, toactually help me enjoy that
right?
And that's when we becomeresponsible, that's when we
start thinking okay, it has tobe more than just a pill I can
take which costs money.
It has to be more than justdoctors around me which will
keep me living longer eventhough I'm not healthy.
(12:55):
So that has to come from us.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm not healthy, so that has to come from us.
You know it's interesting.
I've been going through thiscrazy journey of health and what
happens when you are faced withsomething dire is you start to
prioritize and you start to seethe truth.
And when you see the truth,accountability is the only way
forward and it's the place whereyou can begin to heal.
(13:20):
And I think once you takeaccount for your own health,
your own life, your own joy,your own happiness, whatever,
you realize that you can have it.
And then you realize that youhave to put an effort in order
(13:41):
to make that happen.
You can never accomplish any ofthese things without an effort,
whether it's just a mentaleffort Usually it's all of these
things but frankly, that'swhere the journey begins.
You got to make that effort.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Absolutely, and you know you're a hundred percent
correct and it has.
It's not easy.
It feels more difficult than itshould be.
Usually there are no clearguidelines on how we can go
about it and normally therearen't many people that can
actually help us and by bypointing us in the right
direction.
So we have to sort of figure itout for ourselves and it feels
(14:15):
huge.
But, like you said, the momentwe make that emotional
connection to something we wantto achieve, then the effort
required gets recalibrated inour head.
If we're feeling okay where weare and somebody says you know,
wouldn't you like to be a littlebit fitter, a little bit
healthier and perhaps lose someweight?
100, everybody will say yes,sure.
(14:36):
And what do we know from thefigures?
Every jan January the gyms arepacked.
By mid-February we're down toabout 45% of the people.
So 55% dropped off.
By mid-April we're down to 35%.
By May we're down to 15%.
So 85% of the people haveactually dropped out.
And it's not for lack of access.
They've go to the gym, they paymoney, they.
(14:57):
And it's not for lack of access.
They've go to the gym, they paymoney, they spend the money to
buy the equipment, to buy thecourses to buy the time of the
personal trainer.
We know that globally we spendalmost a trillion dollars a year
on fitness.
We know that in the US, everyyear the entire population if
you average out the cost of themoney spent we spend $133 for
(15:18):
every man, woman and child onfitness.
And yet the World HealthOrganization tells us that by
the year 2050, 50% of adults inthe world are going to be
overweight or obese.
So something else has to happen, something more than just
access equipment clothes,trainers, sneakers, shoe union,
(15:39):
whatever it is.
It needs more than just that.
Because we are willing to spendthe money.
We have mostly access to somekind of course or knowledge.
We live in gauge of information.
We have plenty of podcasts,youtube videos, books,
documentaries on Netflix, tv.
(15:59):
All those things are around us,and yet we don't actually put
them into action.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And so true.
These areas that you talk about, these blue zones, most of them
, are not wealthy places.
They're not places where yougot a 24-hour fitness on every
corner.
And yet you know, these peoplefind a way.
And here, in the States andwealthy areas, you can't drive a
(16:27):
mile without seeing somefitness, something.
And, like you said, we've gotmore health problems than any
place on the planet.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Exactly exactly, and usually there's always a
multiplicity of reasons thatkeep us in this sort of not
happy state of affairs, but oneof the fundamental ones and you
hit upon it a bit earlier is howwe make that emotional
connection between where we areand where we want to go.
For you, it was a wake-up callwhich was health-related.
(16:58):
For many people it's like that.
I've spoken to other people andit's usually the early death of
a loved one which actually madethem realize that they don't
want to experience the samesituation.
So that emotional connection isactually what allows us to to
do it, and I will explain inscientific terms why this helps.
Now, exercises exercise is astressor, you know, hands down,
(17:18):
we're going to do it, and I willexplain in scientific terms why
this helps.
Now, exercise is a stressor,you know, hands down, we're
going to do something physical,we're going to get tired, we're
disinclined to do it, we'regoing to waste energy, we're
going to get sweaty, all thosethings In.
I had is a calculus which isdesigned basically to help us
survive, and it's a very ancientmechanism and what it does is
(17:40):
it factors in the effort we'regoing to undertake for something
, and then it tries to ascertainthe value of what it will give
us back.
So this is why, for instance,if you're really hungry and
you're presented with perhaps adonut and something else which
(18:00):
is about the same weight but notas rich in calories, you would
straight go for the donutBecause you think, okay, this is
something which will give meimmediately the calories which I
need to survive.
So that calculus goes intoeffect in everything we do.
You know, if we're tired, forinstance, and you take out the
trash, like me, you findyourself sort of having to to to
(18:23):
talk to yourself like can I can, it can last until the morning,
because you know you don't wantto walk 25, 30 paces to take it
outside right, because you'retired and it's not like you
physically cannot do it.
I can do it, anybody can do it.
But sometimes I sort of findmyself having this dialogue like
, oh, will it be okay untilmorning?
What if I just compact it downa little bit so I can actually
(18:44):
use it in the morning and thentake it out afterwards?
When we are tired, we have tokind of make the calculation all
the time, and we're consciousof it.
When we're not tired, it stillgoes on, and we're conscious of
it, but we're not tired.
It still goes on and we're notreally conscious of it.
So when it comes to exercise,for instance, if we have an
emotional connection to whatwe're doing, then that calculus
(19:05):
in our head gets recalibrated.
The effort required now doesn'tseem so hard compared to what
we're going to achieve.
It's like I don't know, if youhad perhaps I'm going back to my
example of taking the trash outIf you ever had a mouse
infestation in your housebecause you didn't take the
trash out, you're going to takethe trash out every single night
(19:26):
, it doesn't matter how tiredyou are, because you don't want
to have mice back in your houseagain.
That's the emotional connection.
If you have had a health scare,suddenly you know what you're
actually working for.
So the effort required to getyou into a fitter, healthier
state doesn't seem so hardanymore.
Your brain has recalculated it.
(19:46):
And to make that emotionalconnection, what do we need?
We need two basic things, andthey're also difficult.
We need to sort of strip thelayers of who we are to
understand who we are underneath, and then we need to understand
a little bit better why we dothe things we do.
It's your who and your why.
Any kind of business coursewill tell you that.
Any kind of psychologicalcourse about the meaning of life
(20:09):
and finding a direction willtell you that.
It's the same with fitness Ifyou don't understand who you are
, are and it doesn't have to besome kind of deep epiphany you
just need to do a little bit ofwork and find the reason, and
your reason will always changeas you change.
You know what?
The reason I was training whenI was 20 is different to the
reason that I was training whenI was 30 and 40, and it's
(20:29):
entirely different to why I'mtraining now and I'm 60 I think
that's a very important thing.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
People get stuck in a rut, and sometimes their
motivation stays stuck, and yetwe're always moving, and,
whether we like it or not, we'reeither going forward or
backwards, one way or the other.
The world's spinning.
You're either going or you'regoing the other way, and as a
result of that, though we livein this such a dynamic,
everything's changing all thetime.
(20:57):
How could you think that yourgoal of a year ago, five years
ago, 10 years ago, would applyto your current situation the
same way it did?
But we do.
We hold on to these things thatyou know drive us, and yet
maybe we lose sight of the factthat, well, here I am today.
(21:17):
Maybe I need to rethink orrejournal, or recalibrate, and I
don't know.
For me, I think that's been oneof the biggest lessons of my
life is to keep assessing.
You got to keep taking, takingaccount of where you are and
what you want to be.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Absolutely, and again I mean you're 100% correct.
This is what we should be doing.
We don't always do it becauseit's uncomfortable, you know,
asking yourself all the time whoyou are and examining how you
have changed and why you havechanged, and then re-examining
why you're doing the things youdo and are you heading in the
right direction.
It's not easy, and some of usdon't necessarily have the
(21:55):
headspace or don't want tocreate a headspace for that,
because it feels uncomfortable.
But by doing it, however, thisis how we grow.
If we think that our role inlife is to be the best possible
human beings we can be, then weare duty bound to try and do
that for ourselves and where wecan then help others, do it
(22:17):
because they also need to grow.
So it's.
It's always a change ofperspective.
It's always a framework that weuse to see the world.
If we just stay locked insideour head, we're only conscious
of our own particular needs at asurface level, we don't go
digging too deep, and then weare constantly being reactive to
(22:39):
our reality.
Our reactive situation is notalways the best one to be in.
First of all, our anxietylevels are up.
Our stress levels are upbecause the external world is
constantly making demands uponus.
Chronic stress is not very goodfor long-term health.
It's not very good forlongevity.
It's not very good forlong-term health.
It's not very good forlongevity.
It's not very good for criticalthinking, because the brain
(23:01):
tends to panic and shut down thehigher centers of the brain
that carry out analyticalthinking in order to save
resources, because, from thebrain's point of view, we are
under attack and it has to gointo a survival mode where we're
ready to fight off flight.
So these are the things we needto keep in mind.
And the world is obviously verycomplex all the time.
(23:22):
So life doesn't get any easierand there are a lot of layers
which make demands upon us allthe time Other people,
situations, bills to pay, youknow, health worries of those
around us, us the whole thing isalways going to be there.
So in order to manage all that,all of it, the primary thing we
(23:43):
can possibly do for ourselvesthat will give us a semblance of
control in the moment.
We have that control, then alot of the anxiety gets dialed
down inside us, a lot of thestress becomes more manageable
and we can think about things alot more clearly when what we
can do is control our body,learn to move it at our will,
learn to improve it at our will,and if we do that, then a lot
(24:09):
of other things happen as aresult.
It's a cascade of effects Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
So your book Last.
You know, you obviously havethis wealth of experience and
you could probably write a PhDlevel book on any number of
these topics that we're talkingabout.
And yet just the name of thetitle itself?
It isn't, you know.
Build a bodybuilder body.
It isn't you run a marathon, itisn't, you know.
(24:39):
Lose a thousand pounds.
It's built to last.
That is a very impactful,powerful title that really talks
about health and longevity andwell-being.
But who are you writing thisbook for?
I mean, you know, you've gotbrand new people, you've got
experienced people.
Who's going to get the most outof this book?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
um, potentially everybody, but absolutely off
the off the bat it's people whoare thinking of going, of
becoming fitter and healthier,and they don't know how to start
.
People who are thinking ofimproving their health as they
begin to age.
People who are already at acertain age and they're thinking
what can I do to maintain myhealth so it doesn't deteriorate
?
And the book isn't prescriptivein any way.
(25:24):
It doesn't go into fad diets.
It doesn't give you anythingextreme to do.
It's fairly complete that alsohas workouts that you can follow
which are customizable to yourlevel if you don't know what to
do, and some of them like just aminute long.
So if you you know, if you havea minute in your day, you can
actually action on the workoutsand it will benefit you.
But the entire premise of thebook is that every chapter is a
(25:48):
little bit of a blueprint, likea step which allows you to
better understand how to makeyour life include fitness
without a lot of effort.
And this is where we stumblemost of us.
We can all imagine a situationwhere we have to go and get a
membership in a gym and get somefancy clothes and whenever we
(26:12):
have to go there, we get home,get changed, go to the, the car,
drive to the place and allthese are obstacles, right?
These are energeticallyexpensive things to do and they
cost money, which is an extraexpense, and this is one of the
reasons, one of the primaryreasons why we don't stick to
things for very long.
They are an add-on to our lifethat makes life a little bit
(26:33):
harder than it should be, andit's hard enough already.
So the premise of the book isfitness shouldn't be like that.
It should fit into your lifenaturally and it helps you
understand, through examples andscience and also questionnaires
which will make it customizableto your particular situation on
how to actually make thathappen in a step-by-step basis.
(26:54):
And if, if you do that, this iswhat happens.
First of all, fitness doesn'tseem so daunting.
Secondly, doing something everyday seems very, very possible
and thirdly, as you do thosethings, you actually begin to
feel the benefits and thatbecomes a sort of gateway to
other things.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Wow.
Well, there's a lot to unpackthere.
I am actually looking forwardto reading your book myself.
So, that being said, I'massuming we've got a lot of
interest.
The listeners that I know arehighly in tune with this.
How would somebody get a holdof this book?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Amazon can find it at Barnes, noble, pretty much
anywhere that books are sold.
If you support your localcommunity and you have a
bookshop, if you order itthrough bookshoporg, then you
can pick it up from your localbookshop and also make some
money, which is good.
Or you can order through yourbookshop, your local bookshop,
and get it in a couple of daysfor you.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Well, I'm very much lookingforward to this and, david, this
is hopefully the first of manyconversations we have together.
I see that there's a lot todiscuss and the more we talk,
the more I like what you have tosay, and it's been a pleasure.
Obviously, you know time isalways a constraint.
Is there a parting shot youhave for everybody here?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yes, absolutely, I'll say.
When it comes to fitness, thereare three things you can do
Make it personal, make it meansomething for you, make it
possible, make it easy to do andmake it persistent.
Make it something you can doevery day, it doesn't matter
what it is.
If you apply those three things, it will actually help you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today, and I hope to
see you again soon.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Joe, absolutely.
Thank you so much for this.
I really, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Beautiful.
This has been another episodeof the Healthy Living Podcast by
Willow Creek Springs.
Thank you for your support andwe will see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have a very special
guest.
His name's David Amerlund, andDavid is an author and much more
than that, but he's got a bookcalled Built to Last the
Ultimate Guide to SustainableFitness and Longevity the
Ultimate Guide to SustainableFitness and Longevity and, if
(00:24):
you know, this podcast, we'reall about sustainable fitness,
longevity and health and all theways that we can get there, and
David and I had a conversationa little while ago that I just
thought we've got more than justan interview here.
We'll probably be workingtogether for a while.
So, david, welcome to the show.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Joe, it's great to be here.
I'm actually really excitedabout this conversation and
curious to see how far it willtake us.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, absolutely.
As always, the sky's the limit.
We can go wherever you know.
Let's just get started firstabout this book.
Obviously, anybody who takesthe time to take their
experience and put it to paper,if you've ever authored a book,
it's a lot of work, and not justin gathering your thoughts, but
(01:17):
refining them and editing themand having them reviewed and all
this stuff.
It's's a big project.
So this clearly was animportant, uh, passion project
for you.
Why don't you tell me about youknow what?
What caused you to go thisroute?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
yeah, thank you for that and you're absolutely right
.
I mean, a book essentially isstructured thinking, so it's
taking all the things which wehave in our head and all the
things we can find out in theexternal world which corroborate
our thoughts and our theories,and actually making all that
make sense, and that's anendeavor in its own right.
It's always very difficult, butit's also very enlightening.
And the reason, you know, Inever intended to be honest,
(01:58):
never intended to write a bookabout fitness ever.
And the reason I would never, Iwas never intending to write
anything like that is becausefitness for me is something
which I do personally for myselfto help keep my head clear and
my brain thinking okay and myemotions emotions in control.
And I've been training fitnesssince 13.
(02:19):
I'm a chemical engineer by um.
I have authored books on searchand digital marketing and trust
and decision making andintentional living, and in all
those different books the threadis us people.
How do we behave?
(02:39):
Why do we do some things insome contexts and then we don't
do the things which we should bedoing in the same contexts.
And every time I go looking foranswers and peel back the
layers of human behavior, well,obviously I encounter wonders,
but also I encounter thingswhich are very functional, which
we can actually learn from andapply.
We all have an operating codeinside us and the more we
(03:04):
understand that code, the betterwe can become at who we want to
become.
But back to the question of whyI didn't want to do a book on
fitness is because I've beentraining in martial arts since I
was 13.
I'm 60 now, so I've beentraining for 47 years.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Nice you might know what it takes you right.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
In that period.
I have never had a day when Ididn't do something in my life
and I competed.
I've got a black belt in threedifferent martial arts.
I'm a second degree black beltin taekwondo.
I'm a certified black taekwondoinstructor and I competed
nationally and internationallyfor 10 years between 1991 and
2000.
(03:46):
And the reason I never intendedto do anything on fitness
professionally is because everytime somebody asked me, you know
what should I do to get fit?
You know what should I do to behealthy?
I would always think, well, howcan I possibly tell you,
because you're different from me, Whatever works for me isn't
going to work for you.
And being prescriptive,creating sort of a formula which
(04:08):
makes everybody sort ofshoehorn themselves into it, is
never going to work, and we knowthis for a fact.
I mean, we have hundreds ofthousands of fitness books
telling you to do something andthey don't work.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And they all work for somebody, but not necessarily
for you.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Absolutely Well, this is it, isn't it?
So, statistically, they willwork for some people, but they
will not work for others, andthose people will not know why
they don't work for them.
It's the same thing with dietbooks Some diets will work for
people and some will not, andI've even had studies where,
about 10 years ago,high-intensity interval training
(04:48):
HIIT was really a big fad andeverybody was doing it because
it helps you burn fat faster.
It helps accelerate yourfitness.
If you're trying to get fit,it's the only viable shortcut
that actually exists.
It does a lot of good things fora lot of people, yes, and then
there were studies of people whotried HIV and they actually put
on weight Exactly, and it'slike staggering right.
(05:11):
And since then, yeah, we foundso many things since then.
So why this book now?
Because this is what happened.
The pandemic happened and weall got locked up in our houses
and you know, I sort of createda gym for myself in one of the
rooms of my house and I have afriend who has his own home gym
and we get together once a weekand we train.
(05:33):
And if you train with somebodyelse, this is what happens.
The intensity goes up becauseyou don't notice it, You're with
another person, Right?
Speaker 1 (05:42):
You're both pushing a little harder yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Exactly, yes, exactly .
And then there's a socialelement.
You talk right, right.
He would bring some sort ofarticle he'd seen in a magazine
or he would tell me some kind ofthought he came across, and I
would come back with some studyand we'd discuss it and out of
those discussions, over a periodof two years, the seed for this
book was born.
So that's how it actually cameabout.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love it, I love it and you know the dialogue.
Coming back to this, whetherit's a group or just an
individual, a relationship iswhere the growth generally comes
from.
You only have so much in yourhead.
You go in these loops after awhile and if you don't get out
of it with some other stimulus,you just keep looping, and
(06:30):
that's where these conversationsare so important.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yes, I mean, I'm so glad you said that because it's
very wise what you said.
Inside their own head, thestupidest thought sounds
brilliant because it's ourthought.
So we need to bring it out andsay to somebody hey, I'm
thinking about this, and they'llsay this is stupid.
Or they might say this isbrilliant, but we won't know
until we share it.
(06:54):
I think even worse than that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
The stupid thoughts get more and more brilliant,
because you polish them andyou're like, wow, if they could
only see this.
And then you just keep shiningthe same spot and you didn't
realize there was just a dullrock and you're trying to make
it shine and it will never do itabsolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I love your example, absolutely.
This this happens all the timeinside our head.
And and there's another thinghappens from a neuroscientific
perspective the moment we starttalking with somebody and it
doesn't matter if it's a remoteconversation, a face-to-face our
brains begin to synchronize,our brainwaves begin to
(07:34):
synchronize, and this is one ofthe fundamental ways that the
brain has of recalibratingitself to reality.
So if we were to take ourselvesoff on the most fantastic
holiday in the world for a yearwhere we didn't meet another
person, I can guarantee you thatby the end of the year, we're
going to come back and beextremely eccentric and a bit
(07:56):
polite.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
No, no, you're 100% right.
Why do you think solitaryconfinement is the most extreme
punishment?
Because works.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
It destroys you yes, absolutely unravels your
identity.
You're absolutely right.
All the layers of who you are,all the ways where your behavior
is normalized, all the thingswhich you use to collaborate, um
, how you should behave, they'regone and suddenly you have no,
no guide, so you're on your own.
So, yeah, discussion isabsolutely amazing and obviously
(08:25):
, in the exchange, what happensand I sort of give that example
always when we talk to anotherperson, we're accessing a
database.
We're accessing their wealth ofexperience, their knowledge,
their memories, their wisdom,all those things that make them
them, so they're enriching usjust by talking.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And by doing that, you receive this catalyst, which
is the desire for more and theengagement, and because if you
find some value in it, thenyou're going to seek more, and
that's the thing that reallypropels us.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, absolutely.
And we know also and this issomething which I mentioned in
my writing as well, but we knowfrom studies that the social
component is one of theinescapable pillars of health
and longevity.
Um, there are across the world,there are five areas called
blue zones where people live toa long life and in their
lifespan.
(09:28):
They're also incredibly healthyand obviously they've been
studied extensively.
People looked at their diet,they looked at their exercise,
they looked at how physical, howactive they are every day and
they looked to see if they haveenough stress, their
socioeconomic conditions.
All those things.
And all those things aredifferent, right, because some
are in the islands of Okinawa.
There's one in Greece, in theisland of Ikaria, one in
(09:49):
California.
And one in California.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
That's right, yes, exactly so they're so different
Social element is and movement.
Those are the two commonthreads that I see in all of
those blue zones is they allhave strong family community and
they all keep moving yes,they're all active, as you said,
and the the one thing which iscommon across all of them is a
(10:14):
strong social structure.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, they don't feel alone and and they all
experience stress.
They're not in very wealthysocioeconomic socioeconomic
conditions.
Life is not easy.
They don't have access tomassive resources, but because
they can connect with otherpeople, they mitigate the
long-term impact of stress ontheir bodies, which then is
(10:37):
expressed in an increased healthspan, which is absolutely
fantastic.
Just the sheer fact that webelong somewhere and we feel
that we belong somewhere and wehave people to talk to allows us
to live longer.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
That epiphany that is available to everybody would be
the focus of health, and yetthey keep focusing on drugs and
products.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yes, I think there are a lot of.
You said something which isvery simple and it's really
really informationally dense.
We need to unpack it a littlebit.
Certainly we tend to focus onthat because from a cultural
perspective, that's what appearsaccessible to us.
Nobody tells us about thesocial element.
We don't understand the impactat a neurochemical level, a
(11:27):
neurobiological level, aphysical level, so we're not
educated enough in that kind ofaspect of our lives.
And also there is an incentivefor the world around us, right
for us to, to spend money to tryto become healthier by taking,
(11:48):
you know, a pharmacologicalapproach perhaps to to good
health, when it's not reallynecessary and we could do
something else.
So all that takes us down a pathwhere and I mentioned this in
countless sort of opportunitieswe ultimately have to become
responsible for us, forourselves, because no one is
(12:11):
going to come and save us.
No one really ultimately caresfor us once we get past a
certain productive age,ultimately cares for us once we
get past a certain productiveage.
So we need to be responsiblefor us and we need to say okay,
we have a right to be happy, wehave a right to be healthy, we
have a right to feel in controlof our body.
And the moment we say that toourselves, then we have to ask
(12:33):
what can I do within the meansthat I have, within the
resources that I have, toactually help me enjoy that
right?
And that's when we becomeresponsible, that's when we
start thinking okay, it has tobe more than just a pill I can
take which costs money.
It has to be more than justdoctors around me which will
keep me living longer eventhough I'm not healthy.
(12:55):
So that has to come from us.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm not healthy, so that has to come from us.
You know it's interesting.
I've been going through thiscrazy journey of health and what
happens when you are faced withsomething dire is you start to
prioritize and you start to seethe truth.
And when you see the truth,accountability is the only way
forward and it's the place whereyou can begin to heal.
(13:20):
And I think once you takeaccount for your own health,
your own life, your own joy,your own happiness, whatever,
you realize that you can have it.
And then you realize that youhave to put an effort in order
(13:41):
to make that happen.
You can never accomplish any ofthese things without an effort,
whether it's just a mentaleffort Usually it's all of these
things but frankly, that'swhere the journey begins.
You got to make that effort.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Absolutely, and you know you're a hundred percent
correct and it has.
It's not easy.
It feels more difficult than itshould be.
Usually there are no clearguidelines on how we can go
about it and normally therearen't many people that can
actually help us and by bypointing us in the right
direction.
So we have to sort of figure itout for ourselves and it feels
(14:15):
huge.
But, like you said, the momentwe make that emotional
connection to something we wantto achieve, then the effort
required gets recalibrated inour head.
If we're feeling okay where weare and somebody says you know,
wouldn't you like to be a littlebit fitter, a little bit
healthier and perhaps lose someweight?
100, everybody will say yes,sure.
(14:36):
And what do we know from thefigures?
Every jan January the gyms arepacked.
By mid-February we're down toabout 45% of the people.
So 55% dropped off.
By mid-April we're down to 35%.
By May we're down to 15%.
So 85% of the people haveactually dropped out.
And it's not for lack of access.
They've go to the gym, they paymoney, they.
(14:57):
And it's not for lack of access.
They've go to the gym, they paymoney, they spend the money to
buy the equipment, to buy thecourses to buy the time of the
personal trainer.
We know that globally we spendalmost a trillion dollars a year
on fitness.
We know that in the US, everyyear the entire population if
you average out the cost of themoney spent we spend $133 for
(15:18):
every man, woman and child onfitness.
And yet the World HealthOrganization tells us that by
the year 2050, 50% of adults inthe world are going to be
overweight or obese.
So something else has to happen, something more than just
access equipment clothes,trainers, sneakers, shoe union,
(15:39):
whatever it is.
It needs more than just that.
Because we are willing to spendthe money.
We have mostly access to somekind of course or knowledge.
We live in gauge of information.
We have plenty of podcasts,youtube videos, books,
documentaries on Netflix, tv.
(15:59):
All those things are around us,and yet we don't actually put
them into action.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And so true.
These areas that you talk about, these blue zones, most of them
, are not wealthy places.
They're not places where yougot a 24-hour fitness on every
corner.
And yet you know, these peoplefind a way.
And here, in the States andwealthy areas, you can't drive a
(16:27):
mile without seeing somefitness, something.
And, like you said, we've gotmore health problems than any
place on the planet.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Exactly exactly, and usually there's always a
multiplicity of reasons thatkeep us in this sort of not
happy state of affairs, but oneof the fundamental ones and you
hit upon it a bit earlier is howwe make that emotional
connection between where we areand where we want to go.
For you, it was a wake-up callwhich was health-related.
(16:58):
For many people it's like that.
I've spoken to other people andit's usually the early death of
a loved one which actually madethem realize that they don't
want to experience the samesituation.
So that emotional connection isactually what allows us to to
do it, and I will explain inscientific terms why this helps.
Now, exercises exercise is astressor, you know, hands down,
(17:18):
we're going to do it, and I willexplain in scientific terms why
this helps.
Now, exercise is a stressor,you know, hands down, we're
going to do something physical,we're going to get tired, we're
disinclined to do it, we'regoing to waste energy, we're
going to get sweaty, all thosethings In.
I had is a calculus which isdesigned basically to help us
survive, and it's a very ancientmechanism and what it does is
(17:40):
it factors in the effort we'regoing to undertake for something
, and then it tries to ascertainthe value of what it will give
us back.
So this is why, for instance,if you're really hungry and
you're presented with perhaps adonut and something else which
(18:00):
is about the same weight but notas rich in calories, you would
straight go for the donutBecause you think, okay, this is
something which will give meimmediately the calories which I
need to survive.
So that calculus goes intoeffect in everything we do.
You know, if we're tired, forinstance, and you take out the
trash, like me, you findyourself sort of having to to to
(18:23):
talk to yourself like can I can, it can last until the morning,
because you know you don't wantto walk 25, 30 paces to take it
outside right, because you'retired and it's not like you
physically cannot do it.
I can do it, anybody can do it.
But sometimes I sort of findmyself having this dialogue like
, oh, will it be okay untilmorning?
What if I just compact it downa little bit so I can actually
(18:44):
use it in the morning and thentake it out afterwards?
When we are tired, we have tokind of make the calculation all
the time, and we're consciousof it.
When we're not tired, it stillgoes on, and we're conscious of
it, but we're not tired.
It still goes on and we're notreally conscious of it.
So when it comes to exercise,for instance, if we have an
emotional connection to whatwe're doing, then that calculus
(19:05):
in our head gets recalibrated.
The effort required now doesn'tseem so hard compared to what
we're going to achieve.
It's like I don't know, if youhad perhaps I'm going back to my
example of taking the trash outIf you ever had a mouse
infestation in your housebecause you didn't take the
trash out, you're going to takethe trash out every single night
(19:26):
, it doesn't matter how tiredyou are, because you don't want
to have mice back in your houseagain.
That's the emotional connection.
If you have had a health scare,suddenly you know what you're
actually working for.
So the effort required to getyou into a fitter, healthier
state doesn't seem so hardanymore.
Your brain has recalculated it.
(19:46):
And to make that emotionalconnection, what do we need?
We need two basic things, andthey're also difficult.
We need to sort of strip thelayers of who we are to
understand who we are underneath, and then we need to understand
a little bit better why we dothe things we do.
It's your who and your why.
Any kind of business coursewill tell you that.
Any kind of psychologicalcourse about the meaning of life
(20:09):
and finding a direction willtell you that.
It's the same with fitness Ifyou don't understand who you are
, are and it doesn't have to besome kind of deep epiphany you
just need to do a little bit ofwork and find the reason, and
your reason will always changeas you change.
You know what?
The reason I was training whenI was 20 is different to the
reason that I was training whenI was 30 and 40, and it's
(20:29):
entirely different to why I'mtraining now and I'm 60 I think
that's a very important thing.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
People get stuck in a rut, and sometimes their
motivation stays stuck, and yetwe're always moving, and,
whether we like it or not, we'reeither going forward or
backwards, one way or the other.
The world's spinning.
You're either going or you'regoing the other way, and as a
result of that, though we livein this such a dynamic,
everything's changing all thetime.
(20:57):
How could you think that yourgoal of a year ago, five years
ago, 10 years ago, would applyto your current situation the
same way it did?
But we do.
We hold on to these things thatyou know drive us, and yet
maybe we lose sight of the factthat, well, here I am today.
(21:17):
Maybe I need to rethink orrejournal, or recalibrate, and I
don't know.
For me, I think that's been oneof the biggest lessons of my
life is to keep assessing.
You got to keep taking, takingaccount of where you are and
what you want to be.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Absolutely, and again I mean you're 100% correct.
This is what we should be doing.
We don't always do it becauseit's uncomfortable, you know,
asking yourself all the time whoyou are and examining how you
have changed and why you havechanged, and then re-examining
why you're doing the things youdo and are you heading in the
right direction.
It's not easy, and some of usdon't necessarily have the
(21:55):
headspace or don't want tocreate a headspace for that,
because it feels uncomfortable.
But by doing it, however, thisis how we grow.
If we think that our role inlife is to be the best possible
human beings we can be, then weare duty bound to try and do
that for ourselves and where wecan then help others, do it
(22:17):
because they also need to grow.
So it's.
It's always a change ofperspective.
It's always a framework that weuse to see the world.
If we just stay locked insideour head, we're only conscious
of our own particular needs at asurface level, we don't go
digging too deep, and then weare constantly being reactive to
(22:39):
our reality.
Our reactive situation is notalways the best one to be in.
First of all, our anxietylevels are up.
Our stress levels are upbecause the external world is
constantly making demands uponus.
Chronic stress is not very goodfor long-term health.
It's not very good forlongevity.
It's not very good forlong-term health.
It's not very good forlongevity.
It's not very good for criticalthinking, because the brain
(23:01):
tends to panic and shut down thehigher centers of the brain
that carry out analyticalthinking in order to save
resources, because, from thebrain's point of view, we are
under attack and it has to gointo a survival mode where we're
ready to fight off flight.
So these are the things we needto keep in mind.
And the world is obviously verycomplex all the time.
(23:22):
So life doesn't get any easierand there are a lot of layers
which make demands upon us allthe time Other people,
situations, bills to pay, youknow, health worries of those
around us, us the whole thing isalways going to be there.
So in order to manage all that,all of it, the primary thing we
(23:43):
can possibly do for ourselvesthat will give us a semblance of
control in the moment.
We have that control, then alot of the anxiety gets dialed
down inside us, a lot of thestress becomes more manageable
and we can think about things alot more clearly when what we
can do is control our body,learn to move it at our will,
learn to improve it at our will,and if we do that, then a lot
(24:09):
of other things happen as aresult.
It's a cascade of effects Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
So your book Last.
You know, you obviously havethis wealth of experience and
you could probably write a PhDlevel book on any number of
these topics that we're talkingabout.
And yet just the name of thetitle itself?
It isn't, you know.
Build a bodybuilder body.
It isn't you run a marathon, itisn't, you know.
(24:39):
Lose a thousand pounds.
It's built to last.
That is a very impactful,powerful title that really talks
about health and longevity andwell-being.
But who are you writing thisbook for?
I mean, you know, you've gotbrand new people, you've got
experienced people.
Who's going to get the most outof this book?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
um, potentially everybody, but absolutely off
the off the bat it's people whoare thinking of going, of
becoming fitter and healthier,and they don't know how to start
.
People who are thinking ofimproving their health as they
begin to age.
People who are already at acertain age and they're thinking
what can I do to maintain myhealth so it doesn't deteriorate
?
And the book isn't prescriptivein any way.
(25:24):
It doesn't go into fad diets.
It doesn't give you anythingextreme to do.
It's fairly complete that alsohas workouts that you can follow
which are customizable to yourlevel if you don't know what to
do, and some of them like just aminute long.
So if you you know, if you havea minute in your day, you can
actually action on the workoutsand it will benefit you.
But the entire premise of thebook is that every chapter is a
(25:48):
little bit of a blueprint, likea step which allows you to
better understand how to makeyour life include fitness
without a lot of effort.
And this is where we stumblemost of us.
We can all imagine a situationwhere we have to go and get a
membership in a gym and get somefancy clothes and whenever we
(26:12):
have to go there, we get home,get changed, go to the, the car,
drive to the place and allthese are obstacles, right?
These are energeticallyexpensive things to do and they
cost money, which is an extraexpense, and this is one of the
reasons, one of the primaryreasons why we don't stick to
things for very long.
They are an add-on to our lifethat makes life a little bit
(26:33):
harder than it should be, andit's hard enough already.
So the premise of the book isfitness shouldn't be like that.
It should fit into your lifenaturally and it helps you
understand, through examples andscience and also questionnaires
which will make it customizableto your particular situation on
how to actually make thathappen in a step-by-step basis.
(26:54):
And if, if you do that, this iswhat happens.
First of all, fitness doesn'tseem so daunting.
Secondly, doing something everyday seems very, very possible
and thirdly, as you do thosethings, you actually begin to
feel the benefits and thatbecomes a sort of gateway to
other things.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Wow.
Well, there's a lot to unpackthere.
I am actually looking forwardto reading your book myself.
So, that being said, I'massuming we've got a lot of
interest.
The listeners that I know arehighly in tune with this.
How would somebody get a holdof this book?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Amazon can find it at Barnes, noble, pretty much
anywhere that books are sold.
If you support your localcommunity and you have a
bookshop, if you order itthrough bookshoporg, then you
can pick it up from your localbookshop and also make some
money, which is good.
Or you can order through yourbookshop, your local bookshop,
and get it in a couple of daysfor you.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Well, I'm very much lookingforward to this and, david, this
is hopefully the first of manyconversations we have together.
I see that there's a lot todiscuss and the more we talk,
the more I like what you have tosay, and it's been a pleasure.
Obviously, you know time isalways a constraint.
Is there a parting shot youhave for everybody here?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yes, absolutely, I'll say.
When it comes to fitness, thereare three things you can do
Make it personal, make it meansomething for you, make it
possible, make it easy to do andmake it persistent.
Make it something you can doevery day, it doesn't matter
what it is.
If you apply those three things, it will actually help you.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us today, and I hope to
see you again soon.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Joe, absolutely.
Thank you so much for this.
I really, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Beautiful.
This has been another episodeof the Healthy Living Podcast by
Willow Creek Springs.
Thank you for your support andwe will see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com