May 3, 2025 • 28 mins
"What are you willing to do?" Joe Grumbine asks himself on his cancer journey. His answer: "Whatever it takes." This mindset drives the powerful conversation with Dr. Robert Hoffman in this deeply personal update on Joe's cancer treatment.
Joe shares exciting news about his successful port installation and first chemotherapy session at UCI Medical Center. What stands out immediately is how Joe transformed from being someone adamantly against conventional treatments to embracing an integrated approach that combines evidence-based chemotherapy with complementary therapies. The turning point came when Joe, working with Dr. Hoffman's Anti-Cancer Organization, researched and proposed an alternative three-drug combination treatment backed by published studies – which his oncology team ultimately approved.
The podcast reveals the remarkable preparation strategy Joe implemented before chemotherapy: fasting protocols, doubling his methioninase supplements, maintaining a strict low-methionine diet, and various oxygen therapies. Dr. Hoffman emphasizes that this comprehensive "stack" approach represents the future of cancer care – not relying on a single treatment but combining multiple evidence-based strategies. The results speak for themselves as Joe reports experiencing minimal side effects 72 hours after treatment, even managing to sleep better than he had in months.
Beyond his personal journey, Joe has become a beacon for other cancer patients, connecting them with valuable resources and the Sunday support group where patients, doctors, and advocates freely share knowledge. This podcast doesn't just chronicle one man's fight against cancer – it demonstrates how becoming an educated, proactive patient advocate can dramatically impact treatment outcomes and quality of life. Have you considered how combining conventional and complementary approaches might transform your health journey? Join our Sunday Zoom call to learn more from those who've walked this path.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and once again I'm here with Dr
Robert Hoffman with theAnti-Cancer Organization.
Welcome back, robert.
It's always a pleasure to sitwith you.
It's a pleasure to be here andfor once I've got some good news
to share.
Well, not for twice, this isthe second one in a row.
(00:22):
So when we last spoke, I hadjust gotten confirmation that I
was going to get the portinstalled and we were go for the
next day and that went well.
I got the port installed andMonday so it's now Thursday
today that we're recording thisand Monday I came into the
(00:43):
infusion center at seven o'clockin the morning and I met with a
nurse practitioner who wentover everything that was going
to happen.
And you know I'm working withUCI Medical Center and they're a
teaching hospital and they'vereally been great to work with.
The people that I've beenworking with seem to genuinely
(01:08):
be concerned and remember, Iwalked into there with knowledge
and an understanding and aconfidence that I know what I'm
trying to do and a willingnessto do it and I think that that's
changed the tone.
I know a lot of people go intothese places and they don't feel
like anybody hears them orwhatnot, but we're communicating
(01:31):
well and this nursepractitioner was very gracious.
She listened to everything Ihad to say, she explained to me
what was going to be happeningand gave me the go ahead.
Now, remember, I've got this,this sort of weeping wound
coming out of my, my tumor, andI've been very concerned that
(01:55):
that was going to keep it fromhappening and I've been doing
everything I can to you know,I'm on antibiotics and I'm doing
everything I can to keep itcleaned up, but it just wouldn't
stop.
And this lady, she said, listen, that happens.
And I said thank you, I don'twant to stop this, I don't want
to slow this down, I want tomove forward.
(02:15):
And she says we're goingforward.
And I think that that was themoment where I finally was able
to let go and say, okay, we gotthis.
And of course I I was a littleconcerned.
I just had this port installedin me, which is an operation.
It's a minor operation asthings go, but still they were
tunneling around in my chest andthey stuck a tube into my vein
(02:39):
right next to my heart.
I mean, it might be minor tothem, but it's not minor to me
and I want to make sure thatwhoever's handling this has got
the care and concern that I need, and this practitioner that set
up the IV was beautiful andgracious and you know they took
(03:03):
a lot of care.
This is something that Inoticed, and I like to point
these things out before we getinto our whole discussion,
because there are things that Inoticed as a patient.
And the first thing I walk inand sign in, they check, make
sure I am who I'm supposed to beand all that.
And then they weigh you, and Iwent in there.
(03:23):
I had, it was pretty chilly, Ihad a pretty heavy jacket on and
I lost all this body weight, sonow I get cold pretty easy, and
so I was wearing this jacketwhen they weighed me in and I
didn't think anything about it.
And then when, before I went toget the infusion, she weighed
me again and this time I tookthe jacket off, and she comes
(03:45):
back and she's like what theheck?
How did you lose weight soquickly?
I'm like what do you mean?
And I says I've lost 20 poundsin the last three months with
this diet.
I'm on, but that's that.
We already did that I'vemaintained.
And she says no, you've lostfour pounds today.
I'm like, no, I took.
(04:05):
I said I took my jacket off andso she goes.
Well, let's weigh again.
So I went in and took my jacketoff, weighed again and she was
fine and I thought that wasamusing, right.
But the truth was she waschecking the dosage of my
chemotherapy against my currentweight and what happened was,
when she did the numbers, shesays well, they calculated this
on the weight.
You came in when you met withthe medical oncologist a month
(04:29):
and a half ago and you've lostweight since then.
We need to recalibrate yourchemotherapy.
I says thank you, they took thecare to catch that, and had they
not caught it, I would havebeen hit with a dose higher than
I needed and it may have hadside effects.
I didn't want and it tookanother half an hour.
But they got it, the doctorcleared it, it got reformulated
(04:54):
and we got started.
And so initially she hit theline into my port and I was like
okay, what's it going to be?
Like?
It was a little pinch, nothingdidn't hurt, was no problem.
I says that's it.
Yep, that's it.
So she tapes everything off.
She says okay, the first bottlewe're putting you on is, um, an
(05:16):
anti-nausea medicine and, um,something for anxiety or
something it was.
It was two little two, twolittle things as a precursor.
And then the second thing we'regoing to hydrate you.
And so they gave me IV fluidsbecause one of the drugs can
(05:36):
attack the kidney and it'sreally important that you have
constant hydration while you'reon this drug.
And then they started in.
So they hit me with thedocetaxel first, and now this is
where you come in, robert.
Remember they wanted to hit mewith chemo and radiation.
(05:59):
We ran into problems get mydental clearance.
This thing's continuing to grow.
I'm like we got to come up withsomething, and you and the group
on Sunday came up with thenotion that well, there's a
neoadjuvant, first-linetreatment that we can propose
and if we can get the study toback it up, I should be able to
offer that and they shouldconsider it.
(06:21):
And we did that.
We came up with a three-dr drugcombination that had
well-published papers of itsefficacy for head and neck
cancer, the way I have it, and Iwas able to go in there and
present that to this woman andshe said, yeah, that makes sense
.
So they're following a protocolthat I gave to them through
(06:41):
this group that we're workingwith, through you and your
research, and in seeking thetruth, and I'm so proud of that.
It's such a the fact that wewere able to do this in a way
that is not me being subversiveor combative, or just I'm just
(07:01):
trying to find these answers andsolve my problem, and they're
working with me.
And so these three drugsdocetaxel is one of them and so
I just want to run through.
You know, as we're talking aboutchemotherapy, I know a lot of
people that listen to the showare starting to think
differently about conventionaltreatments.
(07:22):
You know, our first thought iswell, it's terrible, it's evil,
it's poison, all it's going todo is hurt you and it won't help
you.
But the reality is, iseverything can hurt you and help
you All the herbs out there,the water you drink, the air you
breathe If you don't do itright, it can hurt you.
If you do it right, it can helpyou.
And these chemicals are nodifferent, and I think that's an
(07:44):
important element to this.
What do you think, robert?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, first of all, joe, everything all the chemo
you're getting has been testedon probably hundreds of
thousands of patients.
Now.
These are very establishedchemotherapy drugs, very
(08:12):
scientifically controlledclinical trials have been
carried out with the drugs, eachdrug alone and in the
combination you're getting, andthey never could get approved
without showing benefit.
So surely, and you can just goon PubMed and read and read and
(08:35):
read and you'll see that themillions of patients that have
benefited from these drugs, theissue with cancer, and why there
is the flexibility that you'reseeing, is there's no one
(08:56):
treatment that's far and awaybetter than the other for most
cancers, almost all.
It's not a disease.
It's not like you come in witha strep throat and they'll swab
it and they'll see whatantibiotic kills the bugs and
(09:18):
give you the antibiotic.
Cancer's not like that the bugsand give you the antibiotic.
Cancer is not like that.
It's much more complex and weknow much less how to treat it.
You did your homework, youstudied a lot, we discussed a
lot.
You came up with a combinationof three drugs that have
(09:43):
enormous experience with headand neck cancer and you said I
want to do this rather than thechemo radiation, because I'm
very worried about the dentalside effects of radiation.
I think any reasonableoncologist would have agreed
(10:03):
with you.
He didn't come in there and sayyou know, I'm going to use some
herb and it has no scientifictesting.
He came in and wanted to do adrug combination in which
(10:24):
there's been a huge experience.
Okay, that's the way it works,and you got what you wish for
one, because you learn what youwanted to wish for Right, and
you did a lot of homework to doit.
And this goes to show howimportant it is for each cancer
(10:52):
patient to be their own advocate.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Nobody else is going to be their advocate.
The medical oncologist probably, on their clinical day, see a
hundred patients.
They don't have time to beanybody's adequate advocate.
Right, you've got to be yourown advocate.
You've got to study hard and Ifeel sorry for the cancer
(11:21):
patients who feel they just aregoing to be passive about it and
let the doctor decide what theywant, based off of really
reading their general guidelines.
Nothing individualized about it.
So you did what I would hopemost every cancer patient will
(11:45):
do the importance of doing yourhomework and seeing what's best
for you.
If she wanted to do chemoradiation, if you would have
been a passive patient, we don'tknow how much radiation damage
(12:07):
might have been done to yourteeth or whatever.
We don't know.
And the good thing is we canalways come back with radiation.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
What you're having now is really, in my opinion,
really neoadjuvant therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Therapy before potential other therapy, mm-hmm.
If we take the example of MsHozumi on our Zoom call, she had
neoadjuvant therapy and shewent into remission.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right and we have that chance.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That was not the intent of the neoadjuvant
therapy In her case it was justto make her breast cancer
metastases operable.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And the surgeon at the end still wanted to operate.
She said what are you going toget out of it?
It's all gone.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So I don't know if your tumor is going to be all
gone, but it's going to have agood improvement.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think it's going to have an opportunity to be all
gone Very high.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It's not a guarantee, but it's very high.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Then we can see, based on the extent.
Do we need some radiation orare you now really a candidate
for surgery?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Where do we stand?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So your experience, I think, is a great example for
everybody.
Your experience, I think, is agreat example for everybody.
Study hard and you candetermine for yourself what you
think is good for you.
And the good thing is, doingall these chemo, the three drug
chemo, doesn't prevent you fromdoing all the other things you
(13:49):
like to do, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Methionine low methionine diet, methionine,
acyver, mectin, oxygen therapy,on and on, on and on Right.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
All will help.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And you know the thing is there's a number of
pieces to this is one is, as youwere just mentioning all these
other things.
When people think about that,the whole totality of what I'm
doing is a giant stack oftherapies.
It's not one thing, it's notanother thing.
(14:27):
It's all the things togetherthat make it work and all the
things that I'm doing to preparemy body for this, meaning the
exercise I've done, the dietI've been on the, the
methioninease I take and in factI've even accelerated the
amount I'm taking it and thankgod to the people that have
supported there are somefundraising going on.
(14:48):
I've been able to do that.
I'm going to be reorderingagain soon because I've been
able to increase the amount I'mtaking.
I know it's integral in thisstack that is keeping me alive
right now and ultimately savingmy life.
Doing the oxygen therapies,creating the ozonated glycerin
(15:08):
and chlorine dioxide and theperoxide nebulizer all these
things I'm doing together.
It's not one of them.
That's the answer.
I drink soursop tea.
I do all different things, butI can't take any one of them to
say it's going to solve this.
Even this chemotherapy maybe,had I not done all these things,
(15:28):
the chemotherapy wouldn't havehad the effect that it's going
to have.
But in doing it all and maybethe piece on the top of this
right now is the preparation forthe chemotherapy so I did the
72-hour fast, or fasting,mimicking while taking the
medical food to make sure thatmy body's not eating its own
(15:51):
muscle and developing its ownmethionine.
That was a strategy.
This is a chess game and I wasthinking four moves in front
that said, well, if I do this,there's a really good chance
that the chemotherapy is goingto work better and the side
effects are going to be reduced.
And guess what?
I'm sitting here talking to youmore than 48 hours after the
(16:14):
chemotherapy.
I have currently a pump righthere 72, isn't it Joe?
72?
, yeah, 72.
I finished it.
I finished the first infusionabout 10 o'clock, oh no, about
one o'clock in the afternoon,monday.
So now it's Thursday.
Yeah, 72 hours.
And I have five, 76.
I have this pump here that'spushing the five fluorosil into
(16:38):
my body for the for the next dayand a half and that's a five
day process.
And the side effects, theimmediate side effects to all of
these are nausea and vomiting,fatigue, muscle pain, possible
kidney problems again, appetiteloss and you know what?
(17:01):
I haven't had to take any ofthe nausea medication they gave
me.
I've been eating when I brokemy fast.
So the 72 hours ended at aboutone o'clock Tuesday morning and
so Tuesday morning I broke fast,ate some fruit, slowly built my
(17:21):
meal, but I had mild nausea.
You know, I'm not saying I'vehad no symptoms.
Yesterday and and the day beforeI was a little bit woozy, a
little bit wobbly, a littledizzy, but had a funny taste in
my mouth, but not notdecommissioned.
I've still been able to getaround and do some things and
(17:45):
I've taken it super easy,resting most of the time.
But you know what has happenedAlready it's only been a couple
of days and the pressure isreleased a little bit and I was
able to sleep last night forlonger than I slept in three
months and I haven't slept pastfour o'clock in the morning in
(18:08):
three, four months.
And I woke up at 630 thismorning and the last time I had
woken up prior to that wasprobably about two.
So I got a solid four and ahalf hours of sleep for the
first time in three months.
As a result of all of thesethings that are happening, and
today I've been up.
This is the third interview I'vedone today and I didn't know if
(18:31):
I was going to be able to talkat all.
I was preparing for, you know,the worst flu.
I was preparing for, you know,not being able to eat or drink.
I was preparing for not beingable to talk.
I mean all of these things andI'm not saying there's going to
be a progressive repercussionfrom this, and you know the side
(18:51):
effects don't all come at once.
But typically, from what I hear, the first couple of days after
the first round are prettyrough and I have not experienced
that and I'm confident thatthat is because of the work that
I've done in the front tostrengthen my body and to
prepare through fasting and thisdiet that I'm on.
(19:12):
I I I increased the methionineA's by double the days two days
prior to me doing this.
So I said I'm going to weakenthese cancer cells as much as I
can, I'm not going to feed themand I'm going to strip that
methionine out of my blood and,frankly, I think it worked.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It does work.
You can think it worked.
It does work, you can feel ityourself.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know, and every time I talk to people you know.
The other great thing that'shappening right now, robert, is
partly because of your presenceon the show and the continued
growth of the show and metalking about this whole
progress I'm bringinginformation to people that need
it.
Yesterday I had two cancerpatients that reached
information to people that needit.
Yesterday I had two cancerpatients that reached out to me
(19:55):
one through an advocate, onedirectly through the show and
told me about their story and Itold him.
I says listen, I can tell youabout what I'm doing for my
cancer and I can tell you howI'm finding these answers.
I don't know what your cancerneeds, but I know these things
and I know that if you startlooking at this diet and taking
(20:17):
these foods out of your diet andif you start looking at these
things, there's a few things Ican tell you that I don't care
what cancer it is, it will helpyou.
And if I can cause you to startthinking in a different way and
find some support and I broughtthese people to the group on
Sunday I think we're going tohave at least one new listener,
maybe two, but either way,whether they come next week or
(20:38):
the month later.
Eventually I'm putting this inpeople's hands.
And now, because of thisjourney I've been on and working
with you and some of the otherdoctors and the professionals.
People are actually listeningand they're not just, you know,
another guy talking about hisstory, but it's actually a group
of people trying to solve somevery complex problems that
(20:59):
affect millions of people.
And it's working, robert, it'sworking, you bet, you bet Joe.
So I just really you know, forthe people that are.
You know, as I was headstrong, Idid not ever want anything to
(21:19):
do with chemotherapy.
I was the most advocate againstit, but it was my own ignorance
, what I know today and mybelief that all the natural
things were the only solutiondiscounted the harm that the
natural things can do.
And when I started to open mymind and I read the book you
(21:42):
know, the Structure ofScientific Revolution from
Thomas Kuhn, and I keepmentioning that book because you
mentioned it enough times toget me to read it and it made
enough sense that I says, wow,things aren't so simple as we,
as we like them to be and,frankly, our knowledge is so
limited that we don't even knowwhat we don't know.
And when you start tounderstand that, you start to
(22:05):
say, wow, maybe I should look atit a little better and maybe
recognize that the things Idon't want to see.
You know, I think a lot ofstudies have confirmation bias
and that's where we have to say,well, okay, I saw what I was
trying to find in thesestatistics, but what else was
there that I didn't look at?
(22:26):
And when you start opening yourmind to these things where Dr
Castro came to me and said youknow, this cannabis therapy that
I was so sure was going to workhe says you're hurting yourself
, you're turning off switchesthat need to be on, and I, wow,
the last thing in the world Iwanted to hear was that that was
my plan, that's the plan Iadvocated for, I risked my
(22:47):
freedom for and it wasn'thelping me.
And I had to accept that andrealize that.
Wow, it's more complicated thanI ever thought and I have to
have an open mind, because youknow what I want to live, and I
want to live a quality of lifethat I deserve and a long, a
(23:08):
length of life that I deserve,and I want to do the things I
want to do and when, given thequestion, what are you willing
to do for it.
My answer was whatever it takes,and I believe that that's what
we're doing here.
We're walking together and youknow people like you and Dr
Exumay and Shahiro and Jean andall these people that have you
(23:29):
know they don't have.
You guys don't have to spendall this time helping people.
You've got a business, you gotthings you could just do and
make your money and go on aboutyour way, but you dedicate huge
amounts of time and energy tohelp people make their lives
better and to help change thisparadigm, and I feel like me
(23:50):
being a part of this gives me awhole nother level of meaning
into the work I've been doingall my life and I just really
want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, it's, it's, it's my mission, and and I
couldn't think there's nothingelse I'd want to do- Well, I, I
I look forward to spending a lotmore time.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I look forward to being on the other side of this
and being able to help withouthaving to do all of this work to
heal myself, and I know thatyou're going to be.
I know it's coming soon.
I feel like we're just aboutready to push this thing down.
I felt there's been a littlerelief of pressure around my
jawbone, around the neck, andthat was starting to rebuild and
(24:30):
getting the sleep that I'vegotten.
I think that that is going tobe paramount in the healing and
I'm staying strict to the diet.
I'm following the protocols,I'm doing everything and I'm as
long as I don't have to takethose um, um, nausea drugs,
that's, that's great.
It's only taking them needed.
They're not helping me in anyother way.
(24:50):
So I feel like I'm in the bestplace I could be right now and
I'm just really looking forwardto the next steps to this.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
All right, you're going to have a lot more to tell
us next week, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
All right, Robert.
Well, thank you, as always, forbeing part of this.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Thank you for having me, joe, and congratulations on
your progress and what you'redoing and what you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's great, awesome, all right guys.
Well, thank you for all thesupport and remember the link to
the Sunday 4 o'clock pmconference call that we do on
our Zoom.
It's a two-hour call.
You can come in for a minute,10 minutes an hour.
The whole time you can beanonymous, you can share your
story.
It's really no requirements orrestrictions.
(25:39):
But it's an amazing group ofpeople that have an amazing
wealth of knowledge andexperience and I have gained
more from this than any oneresource I can imagine,
including PubMed They'vedirected.
I've gotten a lot of PubMedresource from this group, but in
my own research, I think thishas been the most impactful step
(26:00):
that I've taken in gettingknowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's great, joe.
I agree with you, me too.
Awesome I learn more from thepatients than I learn from
anything else.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Well, Robert, I will talk to you next Sunday.
To everybody else, I thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, thank you, joe, see you soon.
Take care with your chemo.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All right, take care.
Goodbye everybody, Bye.
Hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and once again I'm here with Dr
Robert Hoffman with theAnti-Cancer Organization.
Welcome back, robert.
It's always a pleasure to sitwith you.
It's a pleasure to be here andfor once I've got some good news
to share.
Well, not for twice, this isthe second one in a row.
(00:22):
So when we last spoke, I hadjust gotten confirmation that I
was going to get the portinstalled and we were go for the
next day and that went well.
I got the port installed andMonday so it's now Thursday
today that we're recording thisand Monday I came into the
(00:43):
infusion center at seven o'clockin the morning and I met with a
nurse practitioner who wentover everything that was going
to happen.
And you know I'm working withUCI Medical Center and they're a
teaching hospital and they'vereally been great to work with.
The people that I've beenworking with seem to genuinely
(01:08):
be concerned and remember, Iwalked into there with knowledge
and an understanding and aconfidence that I know what I'm
trying to do and a willingnessto do it and I think that that's
changed the tone.
I know a lot of people go intothese places and they don't feel
like anybody hears them orwhatnot, but we're communicating
(01:31):
well and this nursepractitioner was very gracious.
She listened to everything Ihad to say, she explained to me
what was going to be happeningand gave me the go ahead.
Now, remember, I've got this,this sort of weeping wound
coming out of my, my tumor, andI've been very concerned that
(01:55):
that was going to keep it fromhappening and I've been doing
everything I can to you know,I'm on antibiotics and I'm doing
everything I can to keep itcleaned up, but it just wouldn't
stop.
And this lady, she said, listen, that happens.
And I said thank you, I don'twant to stop this, I don't want
to slow this down, I want tomove forward.
(02:15):
And she says we're goingforward.
And I think that that was themoment where I finally was able
to let go and say, okay, we gotthis.
And of course I I was a littleconcerned.
I just had this port installedin me, which is an operation.
It's a minor operation asthings go, but still they were
tunneling around in my chest andthey stuck a tube into my vein
(02:39):
right next to my heart.
I mean, it might be minor tothem, but it's not minor to me
and I want to make sure thatwhoever's handling this has got
the care and concern that I need, and this practitioner that set
up the IV was beautiful andgracious and you know they took
(03:03):
a lot of care.
This is something that Inoticed, and I like to point
these things out before we getinto our whole discussion,
because there are things that Inoticed as a patient.
And the first thing I walk inand sign in, they check, make
sure I am who I'm supposed to beand all that.
And then they weigh you, and Iwent in there.
(03:23):
I had, it was pretty chilly, Ihad a pretty heavy jacket on and
I lost all this body weight, sonow I get cold pretty easy, and
so I was wearing this jacketwhen they weighed me in and I
didn't think anything about it.
And then when, before I went toget the infusion, she weighed
me again and this time I tookthe jacket off, and she comes
(03:45):
back and she's like what theheck?
How did you lose weight soquickly?
I'm like what do you mean?
And I says I've lost 20 poundsin the last three months with
this diet.
I'm on, but that's that.
We already did that I'vemaintained.
And she says no, you've lostfour pounds today.
I'm like, no, I took.
(04:05):
I said I took my jacket off andso she goes.
Well, let's weigh again.
So I went in and took my jacketoff, weighed again and she was
fine and I thought that wasamusing, right.
But the truth was she waschecking the dosage of my
chemotherapy against my currentweight and what happened was,
when she did the numbers, shesays well, they calculated this
on the weight.
You came in when you met withthe medical oncologist a month
(04:29):
and a half ago and you've lostweight since then.
We need to recalibrate yourchemotherapy.
I says thank you, they took thecare to catch that, and had they
not caught it, I would havebeen hit with a dose higher than
I needed and it may have hadside effects.
I didn't want and it tookanother half an hour.
But they got it, the doctorcleared it, it got reformulated
(04:54):
and we got started.
And so initially she hit theline into my port and I was like
okay, what's it going to be?
Like?
It was a little pinch, nothingdidn't hurt, was no problem.
I says that's it.
Yep, that's it.
So she tapes everything off.
She says okay, the first bottlewe're putting you on is, um, an
(05:16):
anti-nausea medicine and, um,something for anxiety or
something it was.
It was two little two, twolittle things as a precursor.
And then the second thing we'regoing to hydrate you.
And so they gave me IV fluidsbecause one of the drugs can
(05:36):
attack the kidney and it'sreally important that you have
constant hydration while you'reon this drug.
And then they started in.
So they hit me with thedocetaxel first, and now this is
where you come in, robert.
Remember they wanted to hit mewith chemo and radiation.
(05:59):
We ran into problems get mydental clearance.
This thing's continuing to grow.
I'm like we got to come up withsomething, and you and the group
on Sunday came up with thenotion that well, there's a
neoadjuvant, first-linetreatment that we can propose
and if we can get the study toback it up, I should be able to
offer that and they shouldconsider it.
(06:21):
And we did that.
We came up with a three-dr drugcombination that had
well-published papers of itsefficacy for head and neck
cancer, the way I have it, and Iwas able to go in there and
present that to this woman andshe said, yeah, that makes sense
.
So they're following a protocolthat I gave to them through
(06:41):
this group that we're workingwith, through you and your
research, and in seeking thetruth, and I'm so proud of that.
It's such a the fact that wewere able to do this in a way
that is not me being subversiveor combative, or just I'm just
(07:01):
trying to find these answers andsolve my problem, and they're
working with me.
And so these three drugsdocetaxel is one of them and so
I just want to run through.
You know, as we're talking aboutchemotherapy, I know a lot of
people that listen to the showare starting to think
differently about conventionaltreatments.
(07:22):
You know, our first thought iswell, it's terrible, it's evil,
it's poison, all it's going todo is hurt you and it won't help
you.
But the reality is, iseverything can hurt you and help
you All the herbs out there,the water you drink, the air you
breathe If you don't do itright, it can hurt you.
If you do it right, it can helpyou.
And these chemicals are nodifferent, and I think that's an
(07:44):
important element to this.
What do you think, robert?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, first of all, joe, everything all the chemo
you're getting has been testedon probably hundreds of
thousands of patients.
Now.
These are very establishedchemotherapy drugs, very
(08:12):
scientifically controlledclinical trials have been
carried out with the drugs, eachdrug alone and in the
combination you're getting, andthey never could get approved
without showing benefit.
So surely, and you can just goon PubMed and read and read and
(08:35):
read and you'll see that themillions of patients that have
benefited from these drugs, theissue with cancer, and why there
is the flexibility that you'reseeing, is there's no one
(08:56):
treatment that's far and awaybetter than the other for most
cancers, almost all.
It's not a disease.
It's not like you come in witha strep throat and they'll swab
it and they'll see whatantibiotic kills the bugs and
(09:18):
give you the antibiotic.
Cancer's not like that the bugsand give you the antibiotic.
Cancer is not like that.
It's much more complex and weknow much less how to treat it.
You did your homework, youstudied a lot, we discussed a
lot.
You came up with a combinationof three drugs that have
(09:43):
enormous experience with headand neck cancer and you said I
want to do this rather than thechemo radiation, because I'm
very worried about the dentalside effects of radiation.
I think any reasonableoncologist would have agreed
(10:03):
with you.
He didn't come in there and sayyou know, I'm going to use some
herb and it has no scientifictesting.
He came in and wanted to do adrug combination in which
(10:24):
there's been a huge experience.
Okay, that's the way it works,and you got what you wish for
one, because you learn what youwanted to wish for Right, and
you did a lot of homework to doit.
And this goes to show howimportant it is for each cancer
(10:52):
patient to be their own advocate.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Nobody else is going to be their advocate.
The medical oncologist probably, on their clinical day, see a
hundred patients.
They don't have time to beanybody's adequate advocate.
Right, you've got to be yourown advocate.
You've got to study hard and Ifeel sorry for the cancer
(11:21):
patients who feel they just aregoing to be passive about it and
let the doctor decide what theywant, based off of really
reading their general guidelines.
Nothing individualized about it.
So you did what I would hopemost every cancer patient will
(11:45):
do the importance of doing yourhomework and seeing what's best
for you.
If she wanted to do chemoradiation, if you would have
been a passive patient, we don'tknow how much radiation damage
(12:07):
might have been done to yourteeth or whatever.
We don't know.
And the good thing is we canalways come back with radiation.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
What you're having now is really, in my opinion,
really neoadjuvant therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Therapy before potential other therapy, mm-hmm.
If we take the example of MsHozumi on our Zoom call, she had
neoadjuvant therapy and shewent into remission.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right and we have that chance.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
That was not the intent of the neoadjuvant
therapy In her case it was justto make her breast cancer
metastases operable.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And the surgeon at the end still wanted to operate.
She said what are you going toget out of it?
It's all gone.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So I don't know if your tumor is going to be all
gone, but it's going to have agood improvement.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think it's going to have an opportunity to be all
gone Very high.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It's not a guarantee, but it's very high.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Then we can see, based on the extent.
Do we need some radiation orare you now really a candidate
for surgery?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Where do we stand?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So your experience, I think, is a great example for
everybody.
Your experience, I think, is agreat example for everybody.
Study hard and you candetermine for yourself what you
think is good for you.
And the good thing is, doingall these chemo, the three drug
chemo, doesn't prevent you fromdoing all the other things you
(13:49):
like to do, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Methionine low methionine diet, methionine,
acyver, mectin, oxygen therapy,on and on, on and on Right.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
All will help.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And you know the thing is there's a number of
pieces to this is one is, as youwere just mentioning all these
other things.
When people think about that,the whole totality of what I'm
doing is a giant stack oftherapies.
It's not one thing, it's notanother thing.
(14:27):
It's all the things togetherthat make it work and all the
things that I'm doing to preparemy body for this, meaning the
exercise I've done, the dietI've been on the, the
methioninease I take and in factI've even accelerated the
amount I'm taking it and thankgod to the people that have
supported there are somefundraising going on.
(14:48):
I've been able to do that.
I'm going to be reorderingagain soon because I've been
able to increase the amount I'mtaking.
I know it's integral in thisstack that is keeping me alive
right now and ultimately savingmy life.
Doing the oxygen therapies,creating the ozonated glycerin
(15:08):
and chlorine dioxide and theperoxide nebulizer all these
things I'm doing together.
It's not one of them.
That's the answer.
I drink soursop tea.
I do all different things, butI can't take any one of them to
say it's going to solve this.
Even this chemotherapy maybe,had I not done all these things,
(15:28):
the chemotherapy wouldn't havehad the effect that it's going
to have.
But in doing it all and maybethe piece on the top of this
right now is the preparation forthe chemotherapy so I did the
72-hour fast, or fasting,mimicking while taking the
medical food to make sure thatmy body's not eating its own
(15:51):
muscle and developing its ownmethionine.
That was a strategy.
This is a chess game and I wasthinking four moves in front
that said, well, if I do this,there's a really good chance
that the chemotherapy is goingto work better and the side
effects are going to be reduced.
And guess what?
I'm sitting here talking to youmore than 48 hours after the
(16:14):
chemotherapy.
I have currently a pump righthere 72, isn't it Joe?
72?
, yeah, 72.
I finished it.
I finished the first infusionabout 10 o'clock, oh no, about
one o'clock in the afternoon,monday.
So now it's Thursday.
Yeah, 72 hours.
And I have five, 76.
I have this pump here that'spushing the five fluorosil into
(16:38):
my body for the for the next dayand a half and that's a five
day process.
And the side effects, theimmediate side effects to all of
these are nausea and vomiting,fatigue, muscle pain, possible
kidney problems again, appetiteloss and you know what?
(17:01):
I haven't had to take any ofthe nausea medication they gave
me.
I've been eating when I brokemy fast.
So the 72 hours ended at aboutone o'clock Tuesday morning and
so Tuesday morning I broke fast,ate some fruit, slowly built my
(17:21):
meal, but I had mild nausea.
You know, I'm not saying I'vehad no symptoms.
Yesterday and and the day beforeI was a little bit woozy, a
little bit wobbly, a littledizzy, but had a funny taste in
my mouth, but not notdecommissioned.
I've still been able to getaround and do some things and
(17:45):
I've taken it super easy,resting most of the time.
But you know what has happenedAlready it's only been a couple
of days and the pressure isreleased a little bit and I was
able to sleep last night forlonger than I slept in three
months and I haven't slept pastfour o'clock in the morning in
(18:08):
three, four months.
And I woke up at 630 thismorning and the last time I had
woken up prior to that wasprobably about two.
So I got a solid four and ahalf hours of sleep for the
first time in three months.
As a result of all of thesethings that are happening, and
today I've been up.
This is the third interview I'vedone today and I didn't know if
(18:31):
I was going to be able to talkat all.
I was preparing for, you know,the worst flu.
I was preparing for, you know,not being able to eat or drink.
I was preparing for not beingable to talk.
I mean all of these things andI'm not saying there's going to
be a progressive repercussionfrom this, and you know the side
(18:51):
effects don't all come at once.
But typically, from what I hear, the first couple of days after
the first round are prettyrough and I have not experienced
that and I'm confident thatthat is because of the work that
I've done in the front tostrengthen my body and to
prepare through fasting and thisdiet that I'm on.
(19:12):
I I I increased the methionineA's by double the days two days
prior to me doing this.
So I said I'm going to weakenthese cancer cells as much as I
can, I'm not going to feed themand I'm going to strip that
methionine out of my blood and,frankly, I think it worked.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It does work.
You can think it worked.
It does work, you can feel ityourself.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
You know, and every time I talk to people you know.
The other great thing that'shappening right now, robert, is
partly because of your presenceon the show and the continued
growth of the show and metalking about this whole
progress I'm bringinginformation to people that need
it.
Yesterday I had two cancerpatients that reached
information to people that needit.
Yesterday I had two cancerpatients that reached out to me
(19:55):
one through an advocate, onedirectly through the show and
told me about their story and Itold him.
I says listen, I can tell youabout what I'm doing for my
cancer and I can tell you howI'm finding these answers.
I don't know what your cancerneeds, but I know these things
and I know that if you startlooking at this diet and taking
(20:17):
these foods out of your diet andif you start looking at these
things, there's a few things Ican tell you that I don't care
what cancer it is, it will helpyou.
And if I can cause you to startthinking in a different way and
find some support and I broughtthese people to the group on
Sunday I think we're going tohave at least one new listener,
maybe two, but either way,whether they come next week or
(20:38):
the month later.
Eventually I'm putting this inpeople's hands.
And now, because of thisjourney I've been on and working
with you and some of the otherdoctors and the professionals.
People are actually listeningand they're not just, you know,
another guy talking about hisstory, but it's actually a group
of people trying to solve somevery complex problems that
(20:59):
affect millions of people.
And it's working, robert, it'sworking, you bet, you bet Joe.
So I just really you know, forthe people that are.
You know, as I was headstrong, Idid not ever want anything to
(21:19):
do with chemotherapy.
I was the most advocate againstit, but it was my own ignorance
, what I know today and mybelief that all the natural
things were the only solutiondiscounted the harm that the
natural things can do.
And when I started to open mymind and I read the book you
(21:42):
know, the Structure ofScientific Revolution from
Thomas Kuhn, and I keepmentioning that book because you
mentioned it enough times toget me to read it and it made
enough sense that I says, wow,things aren't so simple as we,
as we like them to be and,frankly, our knowledge is so
limited that we don't even knowwhat we don't know.
And when you start tounderstand that, you start to
(22:05):
say, wow, maybe I should look atit a little better and maybe
recognize that the things Idon't want to see.
You know, I think a lot ofstudies have confirmation bias
and that's where we have to say,well, okay, I saw what I was
trying to find in thesestatistics, but what else was
there that I didn't look at?
(22:26):
And when you start opening yourmind to these things where Dr
Castro came to me and said youknow, this cannabis therapy that
I was so sure was going to workhe says you're hurting yourself
, you're turning off switchesthat need to be on, and I, wow,
the last thing in the world Iwanted to hear was that that was
my plan, that's the plan Iadvocated for, I risked my
(22:47):
freedom for and it wasn'thelping me.
And I had to accept that andrealize that.
Wow, it's more complicated thanI ever thought and I have to
have an open mind, because youknow what I want to live, and I
want to live a quality of lifethat I deserve and a long, a
(23:08):
length of life that I deserve,and I want to do the things I
want to do and when, given thequestion, what are you willing
to do for it.
My answer was whatever it takes,and I believe that that's what
we're doing here.
We're walking together and youknow people like you and Dr
Exumay and Shahiro and Jean andall these people that have you
(23:29):
know they don't have.
You guys don't have to spendall this time helping people.
You've got a business, you gotthings you could just do and
make your money and go on aboutyour way, but you dedicate huge
amounts of time and energy tohelp people make their lives
better and to help change thisparadigm, and I feel like me
(23:50):
being a part of this gives me awhole nother level of meaning
into the work I've been doingall my life and I just really
want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Well, it's, it's, it's my mission, and and I
couldn't think there's nothingelse I'd want to do- Well, I, I
I look forward to spending a lotmore time.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I look forward to being on the other side of this
and being able to help withouthaving to do all of this work to
heal myself, and I know thatyou're going to be.
I know it's coming soon.
I feel like we're just aboutready to push this thing down.
I felt there's been a littlerelief of pressure around my
jawbone, around the neck, andthat was starting to rebuild and
(24:30):
getting the sleep that I'vegotten.
I think that that is going tobe paramount in the healing and
I'm staying strict to the diet.
I'm following the protocols,I'm doing everything and I'm as
long as I don't have to takethose um, um, nausea drugs,
that's, that's great.
It's only taking them needed.
They're not helping me in anyother way.
(24:50):
So I feel like I'm in the bestplace I could be right now and
I'm just really looking forwardto the next steps to this.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
All right, you're going to have a lot more to tell
us next week, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
All right, Robert.
Well, thank you, as always, forbeing part of this.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Thank you for having me, joe, and congratulations on
your progress and what you'redoing and what you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's great, awesome, all right guys.
Well, thank you for all thesupport and remember the link to
the Sunday 4 o'clock pmconference call that we do on
our Zoom.
It's a two-hour call.
You can come in for a minute,10 minutes an hour.
The whole time you can beanonymous, you can share your
story.
It's really no requirements orrestrictions.
(25:39):
But it's an amazing group ofpeople that have an amazing
wealth of knowledge andexperience and I have gained
more from this than any oneresource I can imagine,
including PubMed They'vedirected.
I've gotten a lot of PubMedresource from this group, but in
my own research, I think thishas been the most impactful step
(26:00):
that I've taken in gettingknowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's great, joe.
I agree with you, me too.
Awesome I learn more from thepatients than I learn from
anything else.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Well, Robert, I will talk to you next Sunday.
To everybody else, I thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Okay, thank you, joe, see you soon.
Take care with your chemo.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You bet.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
All right, take care.
Goodbye everybody, Bye.
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