December 4, 2025 • 34 mins
A routine mammogram, a life-altering call, and a decision that would shape everything that followed: who holds the wheel. Author Cara Lockwood joins us to talk about facing HER2-positive breast cancer, reclaiming agency, and transforming a frightening diagnosis into a blueprint for action, humor, and hope.
We start with the fog of early days—the “white room” where language blurs and time stretches—then move into the moment Cara decided cancer wouldn’t decide for her. She walks through the realities of standard of care, the personal calculus behind chemotherapy, and the filter that guided her choices: throw everything you can at the first fight and live without regret. Along the way, we unpack how to prioritize when energy is scarce, using the glass-versus-rubber-ball mindset to protect what truly matters and let the rest bounce.
The conversation gets real about relationships under pressure, the “pity and pivot” friends who fade, and the quiet heroes who check in without prescribing cures. We also lean into humor as legitimate medicine—from techno-symphony MRIs to awkward clinic moments—and the science-backed power of positive expectancy in recovery. Kara reframes the old war metaphor, treating the body not as an enemy but as a confused part that needs clear direction, compassion, and boundaries. It’s tough love paired with deep grace.
Cara’s new book, There’s No Good Book For This, But I Wrote One Anyway: The Irreverent Guide to Crushing Breast Cancer, blends memoir, practical guidance, and end-of-chapter pep talks that refill resilience when it runs low. If you’ve been navigating a new diagnosis, standing with someone who is, or just rethinking how you make hard choices, this one’s for you. Listen, share with someone who needs courage today, and if this conversation helped, subscribe and leave a review to help others find it.
Intro for podcast
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Kara Lockwood.
And Kara is uh the best sellingauthor of more than 35 books,
including USA Today'sBestsellers That Take Over and I
Do, But I Don't, which hasbecome a lifetime original movie
(00:46):
star Denise Richards.
In 2023, during a routinemammogram, Kara was diagnosed
with stage one HER-positivebreast cancer.
She fought back with a doublemastectomy, chemotherapy, and
restructive surgery,reconstructive surgery, and she
went into remission in 2024.
Her latest book, there's no goodbook for this, but I wrote one
(01:09):
anyways, The Irreverent Guide toCrushing Breast Cancer, in was
just released in October 2025.
So, Kara, I don't need to go anyfurther than that.
Uh, welcome to the show.
It's so great to have you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Thank you so much, Joe.
So great to be here.
I'm really glad.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
35 books.
You're quite a terrific writer.
Um, what what all have youwritten about?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah, well, mostly I'm a romance writer.
So my first yeah, my first bookI do but I don't was a movie on
lifetime.
And as you mentioned, and uh Ialso wrote a Hallmark movie, The
Dater's Handbook, uh, thatstarred Megan Markle, uh the
former Duchess.
So uh Yeah, I've I've written uhromances for adults, for
teenagers, uh, you know, allkinds.
(01:55):
They all have uh happily everafters, though, which is uh you
know they always they alwayshave happy endings, which is
good.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
You hang out with Fabio?
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
No, no, I I wish, but no.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
So it sounds like um a couple of years ago, you got
hit upside the head with uh twoby four.
I I was sharing with you alittle bit.
I know I know that two by four.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
Yeah, it's terrible, it hurts.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
You were just going through a routine uh scan and
all of a sudden it came back andsay we got a little issue here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Yes, exactly.
I um, you know, cancer doesn'trun in my family, uh, but like
everyone, you know, I tried tocheck all the boxes of getting
uh the scans uh and thecolonoscopies when I needed.
And uh this one uh just cameback positive for cancer.
And uh, like you said, just thattwo by four uh knocks you for a
(02:51):
loop.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
You know, in my situation, I had a doctor tell
me that you know this lump thatwas growing in my neck, and I
thought, I'm a healthy guy, I'ma I'm into I'm all about health.
This is you know, I do a podcaston health for years, and um I
said, Well, you know, my bodywill figure this out, and
thought it was just a swollengland, whatever.
(03:13):
By the time I go to the doctor,he tells me, Oh, well, you're so
healthy, it's probably notcancer.
And I sat there for nine months,sort of letting it grow,
thinking that I had it undercontrol.
When you get hit with this, yourealize that you're not in
control of so many things, andyet you're completely in
control.
(03:34):
Yes, and uh that's kind of astrange conundrum, but yeah,
it's so true.
Why don't you tell us about yourexperience a little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, well, you know, it's so interesting that
you say that because um rightafter my diagnosis, I reached
out to a counselor that I hadgone to in difficult times.
Uh, I had previously beendivorced and just high stress
times.
Um, I feel like it's good totalk to somebody.
And um, the first thing she saidto me is that cancer doesn't get
(04:02):
to decide.
And it was just such a gamechanger for me because as you
know, when you get a diagnosislike that, it just feels like
cancer's in the driver's seat.
You know, like uh you've got togo on all these doctor's
appointments, you have to go toall these scans, you you you may
have to do treatments that makeyou sick, or you know, it just
(04:24):
feels like uh you're just alongfor the ride.
But the the truth is, like yousaid, you're still in charge.
You get to decide thetreatments, you get to decide
the doctors, you get to decideif you have treatment at all.
I mean, that's still, you know,in your purview.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's actually youyou are still in the driver's
(04:44):
seat.
So I think that's just the mostimportant thing to remember.
You know, I I don't know ifthat's how you felt.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I I I've done over 20 episodes about my journey.
Uh and and um one of the centralthemes of this is that you have
to be your own advocate.
And just about everybody thatyou talk to, and just about
everything that's presented toyou is gonna have some good and
some bad.
(05:11):
Yes, and you have to decide, youknow, what's worth it and what's
not.
And you know, there really isn'tany uh miracle cure for anything
out there.
Um, there's no cure for cancer,they don't have one, and
everybody's cancer is unique tothem, and so what worked for the
(05:32):
person before you, you know, thedoctor's gonna tell you they
work off of what they callstandard of care.
Literally just check boxes offand and and yeah, get into a
box, they go, here's what we'regonna do.
But you have to decide, is thatwhat I want?
Is it worth it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Right.
And and it's all so individual,just like you're saying, because
I, you know, I would never judgesomebody's uh decision to get
chemotherapy or not getchemotherapy.
I mean, it's just such a very,very personal decision.
You're the one that has to livewith the side effects, you're
the one that has to live withuh, you know, the outcome,
whatever that might be.
Yeah, I know.
(06:10):
I I I have uh uh you knowrecently grown back my hair, so
it's just now this long.
SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
I love it, I love it.
It's just starting to come back,just barely.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Good, good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Yeah, no, I it and you know, it's funny because I
come from almost 40 years ofworking with natural health
answers, and I've I'm aformulator, I've been working
with cannabis medicine, I'vebeen doing all this natural
stuff for so long that I I didjudge people before.
(06:43):
Yeah, when somebody's like, oh,I'm doing chemotherapy, I'm
like, wow, why would you have todo that when you could do all
these other natural things?
Or I had radiation or I hadsurgery or I had whatever.
And I tell you what, it's such ahumbling experience that you get
faced with your own mortalityregardless of where you started
(07:05):
or what you were.
It doesn't yeah, it equalizeseverybody.
It does.
And then you gotta really startthinking.
And uh so you know, you you gethit with this, and um, you know,
what was your what was yourprocess?
I mean, you know, for me it tookme a minute to just even put my
(07:26):
head around it, like yeah, youknow, that was Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Well, I was uh I had just turned 50 and uh I just
felt like I had so much moretime to grapple with mortality.
And and I don't I I also don'tthink even if you're 80, you
probably think I have much moretime to grapple with mortality.
Like, why do I have to do itnow?
Yes, um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
It's uh you know exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, because we're you know, when our time ends,
nobody wants it to end.
You know, it's it's it nobodynobody craves.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
You just wanted to keep on going.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Exactly, exactly.
So when I first got mydiagnosis, um I think, you know,
I'm not alone in this.
I I just didn't believe it.
You know, it just was hard to toto process.
I I went into what I call thewhite room, which was just like
this this very safe space wherenothing bad was happening, but I
(08:19):
wasn't processing anyinformation.
Like uh I was on the phone withmy radiologist who was giving me
all of the details of everythingthey knew at the time of the
biopsy, and uh, I wasn'tdigesting any of it.
I I was there, I was saying yes,I was, you know, was nodding, I
did not get any of it.
Um, you know, and I I think itjust took some time, you know.
(08:41):
And I I don't know about you,but when you're living with that
diagnosis, it sort of felt likeum, you know, over the course of
days or weeks, I would like wakeup and have to remember and
remind myself this terriblenews.
Like, oh no, you've got cancer.
SPEAKER_02 (08:56):
Like how how long did it take before it entered
into your dreams?
Yeah.
Um it didn't for me for a while,like yeah, yeah.
Yes, part of my reality.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Yeah, you know, I think I haven't thought about
that, but for me, definitelymonths.
It was definitely months, and Ithink it was like no, because it
was like a because I would bedreaming, wake up and then you
know, await.
I've got this, yeah.
Oh no, this horrible thing'shappening.
You know, it's it's uh tellingyou breaking the news to
(09:35):
yourself every day.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
It's terrible.
Yeah.
Well, you know, in my situation,I I've been surrounded by people
that are healthcareprofessionals of all different
types, from you know, physiciansto uh naturopaths to herbalists
to Reiki masters to, you know,you name it, all the way through
(09:56):
from total woo-woo to you know,standard.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
And so, of course, everybody's got a suggestion for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
And I'm sure you probably got that.
Here's what you need to do.
You need to talk about thekitchen, read that book, drink
that tea, eat that fruit,whatever it is, you know.
And I was like, all right, slowdown, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I know, and everyone is so it's so well-meaning, but
it is it is an information, it'sit's an information overload,
you know.
And I think I think people areso eager to give you some some
practical advice, like that'sthis is the thing you need to
eat.
This is the thing you need todo.
You need to do, you know,meditation, you need to, you
know, do all of these things,which are very good.
(10:40):
But I think in that first, inthe first few weeks, if not the
entire time of treatment, uh, Ithink I think the biggest thing
I struggled with was, you know,just my emotions, you know.
I mean, you know, just the fear,um the the the sense of like my
body's betraying me because uh,you know, like that that
betrayal is so hard, hits sohard.
(11:01):
Like I, you know, I neverthought the enemy would come
from within.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
Well, and and you know what?
I I don't know if you came tothis place or not, but I came to
a place at first I started downthat road where I'm in a battle,
you know, against myself and howhorrible that is, you know.
Yes, you know, I don't want tohurt me, but but look what I'm
doing, I'm gonna kill me.
And yeah, I came to arealization after a lot of
(11:27):
different trying and not trying,and you know, going down all
these little differentcheckboxes, and I came to a
realization that it wasn't abattle as much as I had part of
my body that was confused, yeah,and it just didn't understand,
it got lost, you know, thegenetic curve got messed up, and
(11:48):
it's just trying to stay alive,and that's all it doesn't hate
me, it doesn't know me.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
Yeah, exactly.
You yeah, that is such a goodway of putting it.
I I felt the exact same way.
I I had to get to a point, Istarted seeing my body as a
child, like me as a kid, and mybrain as the adult, and my body
was just a little kid, justdoing what what it thought was
so look at me.
Look at me, I'm growing allthese cells.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Right, yeah, they're not such good ones, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:17):
Yeah, it doesn't know.
It's it wasn't intending, and Ithink that was so important to
get to the like the forgiveness,let go of the anger, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Once once I realized yeah in that place of of trying
to kill something like that,right?
You know, the the whole notionof creating with your mind and
and you know what is it thatyou're projecting?
What are you thinking about?
You know, I'm like, I can't bethinking about violence, you
know.
That's not right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
Exactly.
Like I I started thinking ofmyself as a very a stern parent,
you know, like this is this isthis is not the right thing to
do.
We're gonna do this instead.
Like it's just it's a it's adistinct like direction into the
right path, you know.
Because I think you're right,like seeing seeing your body as
(13:08):
an enemy, as something you haveto destroy, you know, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
It's it's not gonna work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's that's that's it'swild how um you know, when
you're receiving all thisinformation from people, did you
go through a process of like whowere you gonna like once I
finally got it that okay, thisis for real, I gotta jump in and
(13:33):
get at this.
It was already getting big whenI I got my biopsy re result.
And I'm like, okay, everybody Italked to, like, why did you
wait so long?
I'm like, I'm here now, let'sgo, you know.
Right.
Yeah, it is what it is.
Don't chastise me for what Iscrewed up.
I don't need that.
I I just need to get going.
(13:54):
And but you learn half you haveto prioritize, like your
priorities, everything changes.
Like we go through life, and oh,this is important and that's
important, and all these thingsare so important, and then all
of a sudden, wham.
How how did you adjust to let'sjust call them new priorities?
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I like to think there was aum old commencement address in
the in the 80s, I think, by aCEO that talked about priorities
being glass balls and rubberballs.
Yeah, so so you you want to keepthe like the glass balls are the
most important things, family,uh, you know, whatever you think
(14:34):
is most important in your life,and you don't want to drop those
balls.
And the rubber balls are likesome deadlines and you know,
things you can drop, they'llbounce back up.
Um, but I think when you whenyou have cancer, you realize
almost all the balls are rubber.
Most of them are rubber.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
There's only a couple of glass ones.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
There's only really one or two that are glass.
Like cancer is glass, you can'tdrop that one.
Um, but the others, they'llbounce.
Like, you know, you don't wantto drop them all the time, but
they'll bounce.
So, and that is a completeshift.
Uh, if it if there is a silverlining to cancer, it is like
(15:12):
reprioritizing what's importantfor you, and it does it like
immediately.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
I think that's really important for people that
get diagnosed to realize that asyou know, a lot of what the
purpose of this podcast is forpeople to learn and to to
benefit their lives.
And I I've gained a lot of youknow cancer patients as
listeners as a result of a lotof the things I've talked about,
(15:40):
and not yeah, we talk about allkinds of stuff, but there's
there's a a theme that keepscoming back, and more and more
people are coming back to me foryou know, consulting and things
like that, going, hey, you know,I heard this guest, or I heard
you say this, uh, you know andand I I think part of that is
like you're getting input fromall these places, you're
(16:02):
probably reading books, you'relistening to videos, you're
you're you got doctors tellingyou one thing, you got probably
parents or loved ones tellingyou thing, you got, you know,
how did you sort of I don'tknow, prioritize the value of
input?
Because that was a real hard onefor me.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Yeah, yeah, it is hard because you're you are
getting it from so many sources.
Um, you know, for me, uh my mydad's a retired doctor.
Uh he's a retired orthopedicsurgeon.
Um, and when it came to healthand medicine, I I trusted his
his advice more uh just growingup and you know um so um I I
(16:49):
trusted when he when hesuggested like you know, there
were there were other people inmy life, relatives and friends,
who were like, maybe you don'twant to do chemotherapy, maybe
you know, you're sort of aborderline case, you might not
need it.
Like, you know, do you reallyneed to go through this?
You know, and my dad was like,look, you get one shot to throw
everything you have at thismonster, yeah.
(17:11):
And so you throw everything youhave at it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
You don't let you gotta you gotta kill it now
because if you don't, it's itcomes back stronger, meaner, and
smarter, and it's almostimpossible second time around.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Right.
And so um that that bit ofadvice really, really resonated
with me just because I had a youknow deep trust in in my dad and
what he recommended.
But secondly, um I had uh verygood friends who uh and my
spouse as well, who um sort ofhave a perspective like um you
(17:44):
don't want to live life withregret.
Right.
So combining those two of dadsaying, you know, throw
everything you got at it, andthen friends and uh my husband
saying, you know, just live yourlife without regret.
Like, you know, you don't wantregret.
And that that resonated with metoo.
So in that case, I was like, I'mgoing full bore on this,
(18:04):
everything I can right now.
Um my hair will grow back later.
I'll worry about it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
Yeah, that was the last thing I cared about.
Exactly.
I my wife was like, Oh, youknow, you used to have such nice
hair.
I'm like, you know what, it'llcome back or it won't.
I right here, you know what Iam?
I have I have another day tolive.
That's what I have.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Exactly, exactly.
So I I think you know, thosefilters are hard to to you know
to to set for yourself, butultimately, at least for me,
there was just getting all thatinformation, but the the
challenge was getting to myinner um hard no and heck yes,
yeah, you know, and that and soevery time I heard something, I
(18:48):
had to check in with myself.
Is this is this a hard no?
Is this a heck yes?
Am I just not sure?
And so my whole my whole focuswas really trying to get to that
that hard no, that heck yes.
Like there's there could be nomiddle ground, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Right.
There's no wobblers here likeyou guys, yeah.
You're either all in or you'reall out.
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Well, it's interesting how we're walking
sort of a parallel path.
Did you find that relationshipsthat you had sort of filtered
themselves too?
Like I found that a lot ofpeople I thought I had a good
relationship with turned out Ididn't, and yeah, people I
(19:31):
didn't know that they were sogood turned out they were, and
yes, fortunately, plenty that Ithought were good were, but you
know, you really when times getrough, that's when you really
find out who's real and who's uhoh absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
I think that's so true.
Um, I think it's true becausecancer's terrifying, it's really
scary, and it's not just scaryfor us, it's scary for people
who know us as well.
I mean, uh cancer is like sortof this horrible mirror that's
held up to other people, likeactually, death is coming for us
all, by the way.
We're all mortal, and uh thiscould come for you.
(20:13):
Exactly, like this could comefor you too.
And so I found uh the people thepeople um I found that that it
did filter people into peoplewho were brave enough to to sit
with me in the discomfort and toto face it and to be okay with
facing it.
Um and then there were peoplethat like to make excuses and
(20:36):
like to it it it's a it'ssomething I call the pity and
pivot.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Like the I'm so sorry for you.
And hey, did you did you hearabout the football game?
Or did you think that's right?
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's go talk about somethingnice, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Let's let's pivot right away from this.
And then those same people justgently backed away.
They didn't know.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Before you know it, they're like, Well, I haven't
seen them for a while, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yeah, exactly.
But the people that surprisedme, like you said, you know, I
didn't even think they were theywere um that close that we were
their friendship was that close,they were the ones often that
were like just and it was just ahow are you?
It was a it was a weeklycheck-in or a monthly check-in.
There wasn't a hey, you've gotto do this treatment or any kind
(21:19):
of cure, yeah.
Yeah, it was just like a how areyou, how are you doing?
I'm thinking about you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Did you did you find um any people that um had
survived cancer that came intoyour life or or that you already
knew that were able to sharetheir stories?
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I did meet people throughother friends.
Uh, you know, I think as as soonas you become diagnosed, uh at
least for me, I realized uh inmy network of friends, there
were friends of friends andrelatives of friends that there
really is a club.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
There really is.
And I I actually didn't know.
I mean, you know, you kind oflike distantly know, but they're
they're friends of friends oryou know, not really in your
circle.
And uh yeah, and so it turnedout um cancer is just way more
common than I ever thought.
Yeah, and so I I did connectwith other people going through
um breast cancer at the sametime I was um and and had very
(22:20):
different experiences because asyou said earlier, every every
case is different, no matter ifyou have the same kind of cancer
or not.
Like it's it's it's verydifferent journey.
So, but yeah, and um I feel likethere is a community and uh a
network of definitely is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, I feel like I've sort of commandeered this
conversation a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
No, no, no, I'm I love it.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
I want to hear about your book, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
So I I wrote there's no good book for this, but I
wrote one anyway, The IrreverentGuide to Crushing Breast Cancer,
uh, based on my experience.
You know, it's a little bitmemoir, it's a little self-help.
Uh every chapter ends with a peptalk because I really feel like
that's what you need more thananything during this journey.
SPEAKER_02 (23:05):
Um and I think your spirit up is huge, I think.
I think you start gettingdepressed, then you know, you're
I think your body responds topositive energy in a positive
way.
And you know, your body's busyputting itself back together
every night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you are giving it goodthings, it's like, all right, I
(23:28):
can keep doing this.
And if you start gettingdepressed, I don't know.
I think it has another anotherresponse sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
Oh, yeah.
I I I mean, there there havebeen studies that say if you if
you go into a surgery believingyou'll be fine and this will
help you, that you you are fineand you have fewer complications
than the person who doubts whatthey're doing and feels like
it's gonna hurt them, then youknow, they get they get poorer
outcomes.
Like, I mean, there there isscientific evidence that says
(23:56):
positive thinking helps.
And and that negative thinkingcan undermine your recovery and
and I don't know if it can makeyou sick, but it it definitely
can't help you get well.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, you know, I I there's a scale that says, is it
gonna help me or not?
And then it's not, is it gonnahurt me?
It's if it's not gonna help me,I don't want anything to do with
it.
And right now, positive thinkingcan help you.
It's not gonna hurt me, thenwhat the heck, you know?
Why wouldn't you exactly?
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Exactly.
Yeah, and I I think a great partof or at least a huge part of
positive thinking for me washumor and using humor.
And uh there's a lot of humor inin the book.
Uh I talk very, very candidlyabout my experiences in an MRI
machine and and and other thingsthat um that are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
That machine is like a I'm not into techno music, but
man, it's like a friggin' technoconcert going on in there.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
No, it's the worst.
It's so funny because I havenever been claustrophobic in my
life, but when I went into thatMRI machine, I was like, oh no,
that's a good choice.
That's claustrophobia, excellentjoy.
I understand.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
Yeah, but but humor has such a uh so so many healing
properties, I think.
It it instantly uh lowers ourboth blood pressure.
We we relax instantly.
Uh it's it's hard to be afraidwhen you're laughing, you know?
And and fear is such a big partof every stage of cancer and and
fighting cancer.
And so anytime you can underminefear and the it's a good thing.
(25:32):
So right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:32):
No, I couldn't agree more.
I think humor is a powerfulweapon or a tool, and it's you
know, they're the old readersdigest, you know, laughter's the
best medicine.
It's it's really true.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, and I I think we have tosometimes give ourselves
permission to laugh.
I think sometimes we get um whenwe're going through something
difficult, we think, yeah, isthis not uh is this not
appropriate?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Well, guess what?
You know, everything's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
It is, it is because you know, life's a little
absurd, and that happenscompletely absurd, yeah.
The doctor's office andeverywhere else.
SPEAKER_02 (26:09):
So if we can't if we can't laugh Milky Way and think
about anything, and you go, oh,oh well, that's ridiculous.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
Yes, exactly, exactly.
So might as well give your likeendorphins a boost.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Absolutely.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Yeah.
So I I don't know how you youfelt about uh positive thinking.
Was that something key for you?
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
No, no, that's that's always been a part of my
regimen, and I preach it, youknow.
We gotta, it's you are what youthink about, you know.
You you create your existencebased on what you think about,
and everything that you see inlife started out as a thought.
Yeah.
So this is you know, I I had totake a beating for a minute.
(26:53):
I says, Wow, I did this to me,and and I realized that I did, I
I created this thing, and and itwas a lot of bad choices over a
lot of years, and whatever.
I okay, well, it's now it's timeto uncreate that and and let's
create a new thing.
And you know, I think ownershipis important, and you can
(27:13):
combine humor and ownership, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:15):
Yeah, oh yes, of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
So that was kind of what I had to do is I had to
swallow it and say, okay, youknow, I did this, I I get it,
but I don't have to beat myselfup over it.
Let's just get on to the fixingpart, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Yeah.
Well, I would say too, um, thatdefinitely, you know, you can
you can take accountability andresponsibility, but at the same
time, I would say um no one everchooses cancer.
So no matter so no matter whatkind of behavior, even if you
skipped your scan uh scans, evenif you smoked every day, even if
you even if you did all of thethings you didn't do it for that
(27:51):
purpose, right?
Yeah, that was not your it wasnever your intent to get cancer.
So I think we should showourselves some grace, give
ourselves the you know agreed,yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah, no, I I I'm right there with you.
And and you know, the thingthat's wild is these lessons,
these profound lessons that youget about, you know, this hugely
impactful subject, you cantransfer to any element in life,
really.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, yes, I it's so true.
It it is so true because you youget such clarity, you know, um,
through this, through thisprocess.
Like it's uh and and the and thelessons you learn about um what
you can how tough you are, youknow.
I I think uh I think at thebeginning before I had cancer, I
(28:42):
sort of put people with cancerin a different group, in a like
they're better than me, they'rebraver than me, they've they you
know, they're stronger than me,they've they've gone through
this.
I I could never I could never dothat, you know.
But now I see, you know, from myown journey that anyone can do
it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:58):
Like any remarkable what you're capable of when
you're faced with a thing, youknow.
I have people all the time say,Oh, you're so inspirational,
you're so strong.
I'm like, you know what?
I'll bet you if you were sittingin my chair, you'd be doing the
same thing because you just youdo what you need to do, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
Exactly.
I mean, the thing is, is if youdon't have a choice, if your
choice is death or this, I don'tchoose that.
Yeah, sorry, yeah.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Yeah, 100%.
Well, Kara, it's um you justreleased this book, it's only
been uh a month or so that how'sit doing?
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Oh, great, great, yeah.
I think it's reaching a lot ofpeople, and and for everyone uh
purchased, I also donate one forsomeone in treatment.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So that's beautiful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
And uh 50% of proceeds go to Susan G.
Coman and the Breast CancerResearch Foundation.
Because I I would like nothingbetter than for our club to be
closed to new members forever.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Yeah, let's put it out of business.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
I have a big fair.
Let's let's put cancer in thehistory books so we only read
about it in past tense, youknow, like the plague.
Let's do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
100%.
And communicating about this isis critical.
That's one of the reasons I Ikeep talking about it every
chance I get, because truth isthe the hospitals and the
doctors and the medical schoolsare about 20 years behind the
science, and it takes that long.
For the testing and the trialsand everything to get to where
(30:25):
you can even take it.
Like there were treatments thatI wish I could have had access
to, but they weren't proven yet.
And they only let them do forthis cancer and not that one.
I'm like, I know it would workfor me, but I couldn't, nobody
would give it to me, you know?
And I'm like, well, hopefullythey'll catch up soon.
And I think the talking aboutit, you know, even talking to
doctors about sort ofout-of-the-box things, they
(30:48):
always said, I don't know aboutthat, you know.
And they weren't necessarilyagainst it.
They just would say, it's not inmy box.
I don't know it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
Yeah.
Well, and I, you know, I mean,you can't blame them because
they're looking at like whatevertrue, whatever research is in
front of them, and they can'tjust, you know, hand out their
responsibility.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Yeah.
My dad was charging too while hewas alive, and you know, I I I
lived my whole life, you know,growing up with his stories and
his experiences and all of that.
So wow.
Well, listen, um I always try totie up a conversation with a
thought.
And I know you've got a lot ofthoughts wrapped up into this,
(31:28):
but do you have a message thatyou would like to sort of
distill this down for ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yeah, well, I would I would say that you're stronger
than you think you are.
And um I think uh it's it's likethe Navy SEALs say, when you're
when you think you want to quit,you're only 40% there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:48):
Exactly.
Yeah, no, that's that's that'spowerful and huge.
And you know, hopefully youdon't have to look at the
darkness at the end of thehallway to to find your
strength, you know.
Hopefully you can find it easierthan that.
Well, Kara, it's been uh atreat, it seems like we've been
talking for three seconds.
Yes, and I I my my invitation isis truly open.
(32:13):
I definitely um would love tocontinue this conversation.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can reach you, um, find
your book and all that goodstuff.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Yeah, um, you know, the book is on Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, but you can find itand me at Kara theauthor.com.
So that's Kara with a C,theauthor.com.
And uh yeah, you can uh followme on social media there or drop
me a line or or buy the book.
There's also an audio book theretoo, if you're if you'd rather
listen than read.
SPEAKER_02 (32:42):
Nice, fantastic.
Well, I listen to a lot morebooks than I read, so I'll
probably grab your audio bookand and hear you out.
I'd I'd love to share thatexperience with you and not have
to go through it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, good luck to you and andhope for continued continued
good health.
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
Oh, absolutely.
I've already seen the end, andI'm I'm gonna be around for
another 60 years, is my plan.
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
That's fantastic news.
SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us, Kara.
And um this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible, and we will see you
next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Kara Lockwood.
And Kara is uh the best sellingauthor of more than 35 books,
including USA Today'sBestsellers That Take Over and I
Do, But I Don't, which hasbecome a lifetime original movie
(00:46):
star Denise Richards.
In 2023, during a routinemammogram, Kara was diagnosed
with stage one HER-positivebreast cancer.
She fought back with a doublemastectomy, chemotherapy, and
restructive surgery,reconstructive surgery, and she
went into remission in 2024.
Her latest book, there's no goodbook for this, but I wrote one
(01:09):
anyways, The Irreverent Guide toCrushing Breast Cancer, in was
just released in October 2025.
So, Kara, I don't need to go anyfurther than that.
Uh, welcome to the show.
It's so great to have you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Thank you so much, Joe.
So great to be here.
I'm really glad.
SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
35 books.
You're quite a terrific writer.
Um, what what all have youwritten about?
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yeah, well, mostly I'm a romance writer.
So my first yeah, my first bookI do but I don't was a movie on
lifetime.
And as you mentioned, and uh Ialso wrote a Hallmark movie, The
Dater's Handbook, uh, thatstarred Megan Markle, uh the
former Duchess.
So uh Yeah, I've I've written uhromances for adults, for
teenagers, uh, you know, allkinds.
(01:55):
They all have uh happily everafters, though, which is uh you
know they always they alwayshave happy endings, which is
good.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
You hang out with Fabio?
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
No, no, I I wish, but no.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
So it sounds like um a couple of years ago, you got
hit upside the head with uh twoby four.
I I was sharing with you alittle bit.
I know I know that two by four.
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
Yeah, it's terrible, it hurts.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
You were just going through a routine uh scan and
all of a sudden it came back andsay we got a little issue here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
Yes, exactly.
I um, you know, cancer doesn'trun in my family, uh, but like
everyone, you know, I tried tocheck all the boxes of getting
uh the scans uh and thecolonoscopies when I needed.
And uh this one uh just cameback positive for cancer.
And uh, like you said, just thattwo by four uh knocks you for a
(02:51):
loop.
SPEAKER_02 (02:52):
You know, in my situation, I had a doctor tell
me that you know this lump thatwas growing in my neck, and I
thought, I'm a healthy guy, I'ma I'm into I'm all about health.
This is you know, I do a podcaston health for years, and um I
said, Well, you know, my bodywill figure this out, and
thought it was just a swollengland, whatever.
(03:13):
By the time I go to the doctor,he tells me, Oh, well, you're so
healthy, it's probably notcancer.
And I sat there for nine months,sort of letting it grow,
thinking that I had it undercontrol.
When you get hit with this, yourealize that you're not in
control of so many things, andyet you're completely in
control.
(03:34):
Yes, and uh that's kind of astrange conundrum, but yeah,
it's so true.
Why don't you tell us about yourexperience a little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, well, you know, it's so interesting that
you say that because um rightafter my diagnosis, I reached
out to a counselor that I hadgone to in difficult times.
Uh, I had previously beendivorced and just high stress
times.
Um, I feel like it's good totalk to somebody.
And um, the first thing she saidto me is that cancer doesn't get
(04:02):
to decide.
And it was just such a gamechanger for me because as you
know, when you get a diagnosislike that, it just feels like
cancer's in the driver's seat.
You know, like uh you've got togo on all these doctor's
appointments, you have to go toall these scans, you you you may
have to do treatments that makeyou sick, or you know, it just
(04:24):
feels like uh you're just alongfor the ride.
But the the truth is, like yousaid, you're still in charge.
You get to decide thetreatments, you get to decide
the doctors, you get to decideif you have treatment at all.
I mean, that's still, you know,in your purview.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's actually youyou are still in the driver's
(04:44):
seat.
So I think that's just the mostimportant thing to remember.
You know, I I don't know ifthat's how you felt.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I I I've done over 20 episodes about my journey.
Uh and and um one of the centralthemes of this is that you have
to be your own advocate.
And just about everybody thatyou talk to, and just about
everything that's presented toyou is gonna have some good and
some bad.
(05:11):
Yes, and you have to decide, youknow, what's worth it and what's
not.
And you know, there really isn'tany uh miracle cure for anything
out there.
Um, there's no cure for cancer,they don't have one, and
everybody's cancer is unique tothem, and so what worked for the
(05:32):
person before you, you know, thedoctor's gonna tell you they
work off of what they callstandard of care.
Literally just check boxes offand and and yeah, get into a
box, they go, here's what we'regonna do.
But you have to decide, is thatwhat I want?
Is it worth it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Right.
And and it's all so individual,just like you're saying, because
I, you know, I would never judgesomebody's uh decision to get
chemotherapy or not getchemotherapy.
I mean, it's just such a very,very personal decision.
You're the one that has to livewith the side effects, you're
the one that has to live withuh, you know, the outcome,
whatever that might be.
Yeah, I know.
(06:10):
I I I have uh uh you knowrecently grown back my hair, so
it's just now this long.
SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
I love it, I love it.
It's just starting to come back,just barely.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Good, good.
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Yeah, no, I it and you know, it's funny because I
come from almost 40 years ofworking with natural health
answers, and I've I'm aformulator, I've been working
with cannabis medicine, I'vebeen doing all this natural
stuff for so long that I I didjudge people before.
(06:43):
Yeah, when somebody's like, oh,I'm doing chemotherapy, I'm
like, wow, why would you have todo that when you could do all
these other natural things?
Or I had radiation or I hadsurgery or I had whatever.
And I tell you what, it's such ahumbling experience that you get
faced with your own mortalityregardless of where you started
(07:05):
or what you were.
It doesn't yeah, it equalizeseverybody.
It does.
And then you gotta really startthinking.
And uh so you know, you you gethit with this, and um, you know,
what was your what was yourprocess?
I mean, you know, for me it tookme a minute to just even put my
(07:26):
head around it, like yeah, youknow, that was Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Well, I was uh I had just turned 50 and uh I just
felt like I had so much moretime to grapple with mortality.
And and I don't I I also don'tthink even if you're 80, you
probably think I have much moretime to grapple with mortality.
Like, why do I have to do itnow?
Yes, um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
It's uh you know exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, because we're you know, when our time ends,
nobody wants it to end.
You know, it's it's it nobodynobody craves.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
You just wanted to keep on going.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Exactly, exactly.
So when I first got mydiagnosis, um I think, you know,
I'm not alone in this.
I I just didn't believe it.
You know, it just was hard to toto process.
I I went into what I call thewhite room, which was just like
this this very safe space wherenothing bad was happening, but I
(08:19):
wasn't processing anyinformation.
Like uh I was on the phone withmy radiologist who was giving me
all of the details of everythingthey knew at the time of the
biopsy, and uh, I wasn'tdigesting any of it.
I I was there, I was saying yes,I was, you know, was nodding, I
did not get any of it.
Um, you know, and I I think itjust took some time, you know.
(08:41):
And I I don't know about you,but when you're living with that
diagnosis, it sort of felt likeum, you know, over the course of
days or weeks, I would like wakeup and have to remember and
remind myself this terriblenews.
Like, oh no, you've got cancer.
SPEAKER_02 (08:56):
Like how how long did it take before it entered
into your dreams?
Yeah.
Um it didn't for me for a while,like yeah, yeah.
Yes, part of my reality.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Yeah, you know, I think I haven't thought about
that, but for me, definitelymonths.
It was definitely months, and Ithink it was like no, because it
was like a because I would bedreaming, wake up and then you
know, await.
I've got this, yeah.
Oh no, this horrible thing'shappening.
You know, it's it's uh tellingyou breaking the news to
(09:35):
yourself every day.
SPEAKER_02 (09:36):
It's terrible.
Yeah.
Well, you know, in my situation,I I've been surrounded by people
that are healthcareprofessionals of all different
types, from you know, physiciansto uh naturopaths to herbalists
to Reiki masters to, you know,you name it, all the way through
(09:56):
from total woo-woo to you know,standard.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:00):
And so, of course, everybody's got a suggestion for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
And I'm sure you probably got that.
Here's what you need to do.
You need to talk about thekitchen, read that book, drink
that tea, eat that fruit,whatever it is, you know.
And I was like, all right, slowdown, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I know, and everyone is so it's so well-meaning, but
it is it is an information, it'sit's an information overload,
you know.
And I think I think people areso eager to give you some some
practical advice, like that'sthis is the thing you need to
eat.
This is the thing you need todo.
You need to do, you know,meditation, you need to, you
know, do all of these things,which are very good.
(10:40):
But I think in that first, inthe first few weeks, if not the
entire time of treatment, uh, Ithink I think the biggest thing
I struggled with was, you know,just my emotions, you know.
I mean, you know, just the fear,um the the the sense of like my
body's betraying me because uh,you know, like that that
betrayal is so hard, hits sohard.
(11:01):
Like I, you know, I neverthought the enemy would come
from within.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
Well, and and you know what?
I I don't know if you came tothis place or not, but I came to
a place at first I started downthat road where I'm in a battle,
you know, against myself and howhorrible that is, you know.
Yes, you know, I don't want tohurt me, but but look what I'm
doing, I'm gonna kill me.
And yeah, I came to arealization after a lot of
(11:27):
different trying and not trying,and you know, going down all
these little differentcheckboxes, and I came to a
realization that it wasn't abattle as much as I had part of
my body that was confused, yeah,and it just didn't understand,
it got lost, you know, thegenetic curve got messed up, and
(11:48):
it's just trying to stay alive,and that's all it doesn't hate
me, it doesn't know me.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
Yeah, exactly.
You yeah, that is such a goodway of putting it.
I I felt the exact same way.
I I had to get to a point, Istarted seeing my body as a
child, like me as a kid, and mybrain as the adult, and my body
was just a little kid, justdoing what what it thought was
so look at me.
Look at me, I'm growing allthese cells.
SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Right, yeah, they're not such good ones, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:17):
Yeah, it doesn't know.
It's it wasn't intending, and Ithink that was so important to
get to the like the forgiveness,let go of the anger, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Once once I realized yeah in that place of of trying
to kill something like that,right?
You know, the the whole notionof creating with your mind and
and you know what is it thatyou're projecting?
What are you thinking about?
You know, I'm like, I can't bethinking about violence, you
know.
That's not right.
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
Exactly.
Like I I started thinking ofmyself as a very a stern parent,
you know, like this is this isthis is not the right thing to
do.
We're gonna do this instead.
Like it's just it's a it's adistinct like direction into the
right path, you know.
Because I think you're right,like seeing seeing your body as
(13:08):
an enemy, as something you haveto destroy, you know, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
It's it's not gonna work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's that's that's it'swild how um you know, when
you're receiving all thisinformation from people, did you
go through a process of like whowere you gonna like once I
finally got it that okay, thisis for real, I gotta jump in and
(13:33):
get at this.
It was already getting big whenI I got my biopsy re result.
And I'm like, okay, everybody Italked to, like, why did you
wait so long?
I'm like, I'm here now, let'sgo, you know.
Right.
Yeah, it is what it is.
Don't chastise me for what Iscrewed up.
I don't need that.
I I just need to get going.
(13:54):
And but you learn half you haveto prioritize, like your
priorities, everything changes.
Like we go through life, and oh,this is important and that's
important, and all these thingsare so important, and then all
of a sudden, wham.
How how did you adjust to let'sjust call them new priorities?
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, I like to think there was aum old commencement address in
the in the 80s, I think, by aCEO that talked about priorities
being glass balls and rubberballs.
Yeah, so so you you want to keepthe like the glass balls are the
most important things, family,uh, you know, whatever you think
(14:34):
is most important in your life,and you don't want to drop those
balls.
And the rubber balls are likesome deadlines and you know,
things you can drop, they'llbounce back up.
Um, but I think when you whenyou have cancer, you realize
almost all the balls are rubber.
Most of them are rubber.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
There's only a couple of glass ones.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
There's only really one or two that are glass.
Like cancer is glass, you can'tdrop that one.
Um, but the others, they'llbounce.
Like, you know, you don't wantto drop them all the time, but
they'll bounce.
So, and that is a completeshift.
Uh, if it if there is a silverlining to cancer, it is like
(15:12):
reprioritizing what's importantfor you, and it does it like
immediately.
SPEAKER_02 (15:18):
I think that's really important for people that
get diagnosed to realize that asyou know, a lot of what the
purpose of this podcast is forpeople to learn and to to
benefit their lives.
And I I've gained a lot of youknow cancer patients as
listeners as a result of a lotof the things I've talked about,
(15:40):
and not yeah, we talk about allkinds of stuff, but there's
there's a a theme that keepscoming back, and more and more
people are coming back to me foryou know, consulting and things
like that, going, hey, you know,I heard this guest, or I heard
you say this, uh, you know andand I I think part of that is
like you're getting input fromall these places, you're
(16:02):
probably reading books, you'relistening to videos, you're
you're you got doctors tellingyou one thing, you got probably
parents or loved ones tellingyou thing, you got, you know,
how did you sort of I don'tknow, prioritize the value of
input?
Because that was a real hard onefor me.
SPEAKER_01 (16:25):
Yeah, yeah, it is hard because you're you are
getting it from so many sources.
Um, you know, for me, uh my mydad's a retired doctor.
Uh he's a retired orthopedicsurgeon.
Um, and when it came to healthand medicine, I I trusted his
his advice more uh just growingup and you know um so um I I
(16:49):
trusted when he when hesuggested like you know, there
were there were other people inmy life, relatives and friends,
who were like, maybe you don'twant to do chemotherapy, maybe
you know, you're sort of aborderline case, you might not
need it.
Like, you know, do you reallyneed to go through this?
You know, and my dad was like,look, you get one shot to throw
everything you have at thismonster, yeah.
(17:11):
And so you throw everything youhave at it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
You don't let you gotta you gotta kill it now
because if you don't, it's itcomes back stronger, meaner, and
smarter, and it's almostimpossible second time around.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Right.
And so um that that bit ofadvice really, really resonated
with me just because I had a youknow deep trust in in my dad and
what he recommended.
But secondly, um I had uh verygood friends who uh and my
spouse as well, who um sort ofhave a perspective like um you
(17:44):
don't want to live life withregret.
Right.
So combining those two of dadsaying, you know, throw
everything you got at it, andthen friends and uh my husband
saying, you know, just live yourlife without regret.
Like, you know, you don't wantregret.
And that that resonated with metoo.
So in that case, I was like, I'mgoing full bore on this,
(18:04):
everything I can right now.
Um my hair will grow back later.
I'll worry about it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:10):
Yeah, that was the last thing I cared about.
Exactly.
I my wife was like, Oh, youknow, you used to have such nice
hair.
I'm like, you know what, it'llcome back or it won't.
I right here, you know what Iam?
I have I have another day tolive.
That's what I have.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Exactly, exactly.
So I I think you know, thosefilters are hard to to you know
to to set for yourself, butultimately, at least for me,
there was just getting all thatinformation, but the the
challenge was getting to myinner um hard no and heck yes,
yeah, you know, and that and soevery time I heard something, I
(18:48):
had to check in with myself.
Is this is this a hard no?
Is this a heck yes?
Am I just not sure?
And so my whole my whole focuswas really trying to get to that
that hard no, that heck yes.
Like there's there could be nomiddle ground, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:04):
Right.
There's no wobblers here likeyou guys, yeah.
You're either all in or you'reall out.
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Well, it's interesting how we're walking
sort of a parallel path.
Did you find that relationshipsthat you had sort of filtered
themselves too?
Like I found that a lot ofpeople I thought I had a good
relationship with turned out Ididn't, and yeah, people I
(19:31):
didn't know that they were sogood turned out they were, and
yes, fortunately, plenty that Ithought were good were, but you
know, you really when times getrough, that's when you really
find out who's real and who's uhoh absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
I think that's so true.
Um, I think it's true becausecancer's terrifying, it's really
scary, and it's not just scaryfor us, it's scary for people
who know us as well.
I mean, uh cancer is like sortof this horrible mirror that's
held up to other people, likeactually, death is coming for us
all, by the way.
We're all mortal, and uh thiscould come for you.
(20:13):
Exactly, like this could comefor you too.
And so I found uh the people thepeople um I found that that it
did filter people into peoplewho were brave enough to to sit
with me in the discomfort and toto face it and to be okay with
facing it.
Um and then there were peoplethat like to make excuses and
(20:36):
like to it it it's a it'ssomething I call the pity and
pivot.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Like the I'm so sorry for you.
And hey, did you did you hearabout the football game?
Or did you think that's right?
SPEAKER_02 (20:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's go talk about somethingnice, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Let's let's pivot right away from this.
And then those same people justgently backed away.
They didn't know.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Before you know it, they're like, Well, I haven't
seen them for a while, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yeah, exactly.
But the people that surprisedme, like you said, you know, I
didn't even think they were theywere um that close that we were
their friendship was that close,they were the ones often that
were like just and it was just ahow are you?
It was a it was a weeklycheck-in or a monthly check-in.
There wasn't a hey, you've gotto do this treatment or any kind
(21:19):
of cure, yeah.
Yeah, it was just like a how areyou, how are you doing?
I'm thinking about you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Did you did you find um any people that um had
survived cancer that came intoyour life or or that you already
knew that were able to sharetheir stories?
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I did meet people throughother friends.
Uh, you know, I think as as soonas you become diagnosed, uh at
least for me, I realized uh inmy network of friends, there
were friends of friends andrelatives of friends that there
really is a club.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
There really is.
And I I actually didn't know.
I mean, you know, you kind oflike distantly know, but they're
they're friends of friends oryou know, not really in your
circle.
And uh yeah, and so it turnedout um cancer is just way more
common than I ever thought.
Yeah, and so I I did connectwith other people going through
um breast cancer at the sametime I was um and and had very
(22:20):
different experiences because asyou said earlier, every every
case is different, no matter ifyou have the same kind of cancer
or not.
Like it's it's it's verydifferent journey.
So, but yeah, and um I feel likethere is a community and uh a
network of definitely is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, I feel like I've sort of commandeered this
conversation a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:40):
No, no, no, I'm I love it.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
I want to hear about your book, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
So I I wrote there's no good book for this, but I
wrote one anyway, The IrreverentGuide to Crushing Breast Cancer,
uh, based on my experience.
You know, it's a little bitmemoir, it's a little self-help.
Uh every chapter ends with a peptalk because I really feel like
that's what you need more thananything during this journey.
SPEAKER_02 (23:05):
Um and I think your spirit up is huge, I think.
I think you start gettingdepressed, then you know, you're
I think your body responds topositive energy in a positive
way.
And you know, your body's busyputting itself back together
every night.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you are giving it goodthings, it's like, all right, I
(23:28):
can keep doing this.
And if you start gettingdepressed, I don't know.
I think it has another anotherresponse sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
Oh, yeah.
I I I mean, there there havebeen studies that say if you if
you go into a surgery believingyou'll be fine and this will
help you, that you you are fineand you have fewer complications
than the person who doubts whatthey're doing and feels like
it's gonna hurt them, then youknow, they get they get poorer
outcomes.
Like, I mean, there there isscientific evidence that says
(23:56):
positive thinking helps.
And and that negative thinkingcan undermine your recovery and
and I don't know if it can makeyou sick, but it it definitely
can't help you get well.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, you know, I I there's a scale that says, is it
gonna help me or not?
And then it's not, is it gonnahurt me?
It's if it's not gonna help me,I don't want anything to do with
it.
And right now, positive thinkingcan help you.
It's not gonna hurt me, thenwhat the heck, you know?
Why wouldn't you exactly?
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Exactly.
Yeah, and I I think a great partof or at least a huge part of
positive thinking for me washumor and using humor.
And uh there's a lot of humor inin the book.
Uh I talk very, very candidlyabout my experiences in an MRI
machine and and and other thingsthat um that are funny.
SPEAKER_02 (24:45):
That machine is like a I'm not into techno music, but
man, it's like a friggin' technoconcert going on in there.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
No, it's the worst.
It's so funny because I havenever been claustrophobic in my
life, but when I went into thatMRI machine, I was like, oh no,
that's a good choice.
That's claustrophobia, excellentjoy.
I understand.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
Yeah, but but humor has such a uh so so many healing
properties, I think.
It it instantly uh lowers ourboth blood pressure.
We we relax instantly.
Uh it's it's hard to be afraidwhen you're laughing, you know?
And and fear is such a big partof every stage of cancer and and
fighting cancer.
And so anytime you can underminefear and the it's a good thing.
(25:32):
So right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:32):
No, I couldn't agree more.
I think humor is a powerfulweapon or a tool, and it's you
know, they're the old readersdigest, you know, laughter's the
best medicine.
It's it's really true.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, and I I think we have tosometimes give ourselves
permission to laugh.
I think sometimes we get um whenwe're going through something
difficult, we think, yeah, isthis not uh is this not
appropriate?
SPEAKER_02 (25:58):
Well, guess what?
You know, everything's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
It is, it is because you know, life's a little
absurd, and that happenscompletely absurd, yeah.
The doctor's office andeverywhere else.
SPEAKER_02 (26:09):
So if we can't if we can't laugh Milky Way and think
about anything, and you go, oh,oh well, that's ridiculous.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
Yes, exactly, exactly.
So might as well give your likeendorphins a boost.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Absolutely.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
Yeah.
So I I don't know how you youfelt about uh positive thinking.
Was that something key for you?
SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
No, no, that's that's always been a part of my
regimen, and I preach it, youknow.
We gotta, it's you are what youthink about, you know.
You you create your existencebased on what you think about,
and everything that you see inlife started out as a thought.
Yeah.
So this is you know, I I had totake a beating for a minute.
(26:53):
I says, Wow, I did this to me,and and I realized that I did, I
I created this thing, and and itwas a lot of bad choices over a
lot of years, and whatever.
I okay, well, it's now it's timeto uncreate that and and let's
create a new thing.
And you know, I think ownershipis important, and you can
(27:13):
combine humor and ownership, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:15):
Yeah, oh yes, of course, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
So that was kind of what I had to do is I had to
swallow it and say, okay, youknow, I did this, I I get it,
but I don't have to beat myselfup over it.
Let's just get on to the fixingpart, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Yeah.
Well, I would say too, um, thatdefinitely, you know, you can
you can take accountability andresponsibility, but at the same
time, I would say um no one everchooses cancer.
So no matter so no matter whatkind of behavior, even if you
skipped your scan uh scans, evenif you smoked every day, even if
you even if you did all of thethings you didn't do it for that
(27:51):
purpose, right?
Yeah, that was not your it wasnever your intent to get cancer.
So I think we should showourselves some grace, give
ourselves the you know agreed,yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah, no, I I I'm right there with you.
And and you know, the thingthat's wild is these lessons,
these profound lessons that youget about, you know, this hugely
impactful subject, you cantransfer to any element in life,
really.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, yes, I it's so true.
It it is so true because you youget such clarity, you know, um,
through this, through thisprocess.
Like it's uh and and the and thelessons you learn about um what
you can how tough you are, youknow.
I I think uh I think at thebeginning before I had cancer, I
(28:42):
sort of put people with cancerin a different group, in a like
they're better than me, they'rebraver than me, they've they you
know, they're stronger than me,they've they've gone through
this.
I I could never I could never dothat, you know.
But now I see, you know, from myown journey that anyone can do
it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:58):
Like any remarkable what you're capable of when
you're faced with a thing, youknow.
I have people all the time say,Oh, you're so inspirational,
you're so strong.
I'm like, you know what?
I'll bet you if you were sittingin my chair, you'd be doing the
same thing because you just youdo what you need to do, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
Exactly.
I mean, the thing is, is if youdon't have a choice, if your
choice is death or this, I don'tchoose that.
Yeah, sorry, yeah.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
Yeah, 100%.
Well, Kara, it's um you justreleased this book, it's only
been uh a month or so that how'sit doing?
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Oh, great, great, yeah.
I think it's reaching a lot ofpeople, and and for everyone uh
purchased, I also donate one forsomeone in treatment.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
So that's beautiful, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
And uh 50% of proceeds go to Susan G.
Coman and the Breast CancerResearch Foundation.
Because I I would like nothingbetter than for our club to be
closed to new members forever.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Yeah, let's put it out of business.
SPEAKER_01 (29:55):
I have a big fair.
Let's let's put cancer in thehistory books so we only read
about it in past tense, youknow, like the plague.
Let's do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
100%.
And communicating about this isis critical.
That's one of the reasons I Ikeep talking about it every
chance I get, because truth isthe the hospitals and the
doctors and the medical schoolsare about 20 years behind the
science, and it takes that long.
For the testing and the trialsand everything to get to where
(30:25):
you can even take it.
Like there were treatments thatI wish I could have had access
to, but they weren't proven yet.
And they only let them do forthis cancer and not that one.
I'm like, I know it would workfor me, but I couldn't, nobody
would give it to me, you know?
And I'm like, well, hopefullythey'll catch up soon.
And I think the talking aboutit, you know, even talking to
doctors about sort ofout-of-the-box things, they
(30:48):
always said, I don't know aboutthat, you know.
And they weren't necessarilyagainst it.
They just would say, it's not inmy box.
I don't know it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
Yeah.
Well, and I, you know, I mean,you can't blame them because
they're looking at like whatevertrue, whatever research is in
front of them, and they can'tjust, you know, hand out their
responsibility.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Yeah.
My dad was charging too while hewas alive, and you know, I I I
lived my whole life, you know,growing up with his stories and
his experiences and all of that.
So wow.
Well, listen, um I always try totie up a conversation with a
thought.
And I know you've got a lot ofthoughts wrapped up into this,
(31:28):
but do you have a message thatyou would like to sort of
distill this down for ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Yeah, well, I would I would say that you're stronger
than you think you are.
And um I think uh it's it's likethe Navy SEALs say, when you're
when you think you want to quit,you're only 40% there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:48):
Exactly.
Yeah, no, that's that's that'spowerful and huge.
And you know, hopefully youdon't have to look at the
darkness at the end of thehallway to to find your
strength, you know.
Hopefully you can find it easierthan that.
Well, Kara, it's been uh atreat, it seems like we've been
talking for three seconds.
Yes, and I I my my invitation isis truly open.
(32:13):
I definitely um would love tocontinue this conversation.
Tell us a little bit about howpeople can reach you, um, find
your book and all that goodstuff.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Yeah, um, you know, the book is on Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, but you can find itand me at Kara theauthor.com.
So that's Kara with a C,theauthor.com.
And uh yeah, you can uh followme on social media there or drop
me a line or or buy the book.
There's also an audio book theretoo, if you're if you'd rather
listen than read.
SPEAKER_02 (32:42):
Nice, fantastic.
Well, I listen to a lot morebooks than I read, so I'll
probably grab your audio bookand and hear you out.
I'd I'd love to share thatexperience with you and not have
to go through it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, good luck to you and andhope for continued continued
good health.
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
Oh, absolutely.
I've already seen the end, andI'm I'm gonna be around for
another 60 years, is my plan.
Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
That's fantastic news.
SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us, Kara.
And um this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI want to thank all of our
listeners for making the showpossible, and we will see you
next time.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.