November 21, 2025 • 35 mins
The urge feels harmless at first: a tiny bump on the scalp, a rough edge on the skin, a moment of boredom. Then comes the pull or the pick, the trance-like focus, the fleeting relief—and the shame that follows. We invited certified clinical hypnotherapist and hair loss specialist Keisha Reynolds to help us unpack body-focused repetitive behaviors like trichotillomania and dermatillomania, and to share a roadmap that actually works.
Keisha explains how BFRBs differ from OCD: they’re deeply sensory and tied to the brain’s reward system, which means “just stop” doesn’t work. She walks us through proven supports including cognitive behavioral therapy, habit reversal training, stimulus control, and compassion practices. Then she opens her toolkit: personalized hypnotherapy scripts recorded for nightly listening, anchoring techniques that redirect urges in real time, and small environment shifts that prevent autopilot behaviors. We also explore the role of alpha and theta brain states in making suggestions stick, plus how faith-based language can strengthen commitment for those who want it.
As a certified hair loss specialist, Keisha connects the emotional and physical sides of recovery, explaining follicle health, growth phases, and realistic paths to regrowth after pulling. Her coaching background comes alive in a standout story: a client isolated in a toxic relationship rebuilds confidence, earns a promotion, reconnects with community, and sees the urge to pull lose its grip. The throughline is hope grounded in practical steps—tools you can use today, whether you’re navigating BFRBs yourself or supporting someone you love.
If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who might need it, and leave a review to help others find these tools. Your story could be the spark that helps someone else begin.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Keisha Reynolds, andshe's a certified clinical
hypnotherapist and a certifiedhair loss specialist and a life
coach based out of Philadelphia.
(00:33):
She's a leading advocate forbody-focused repetitive
behaviors.
She blends expertise with alived experience to bring
awareness to these oftenmisunderstood OCD-related
conditions.
Keisha, I don't need to go anyfurther than that.
That's a great uh slice ofrepertoire there.
(00:53):
And welcome to the show.
So glad you could join us.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Well, as we get started, um, Ialways like to introduce a guest
by sharing sort of their Genesisstory.
Like, how did you you you'vetaken off a pretty big slice of
credentials there?
A hypnotherapist, a certifiedhair loss specialist, and a life
coach.
What brought you to all these uhamazing places?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Well, they actually all kind of lead into one,
actually.
So I started out in uhhypnotherapy.
I've always had a love for uhmental health.
And um this is my way of beingable to do that.
I am continuing on with my umacademic journey to become a
clinical um uh side D for aclinical, clinical psychologist.
(01:47):
So I am continuing on my uhacademic journey with that.
But um I did along the way, Idid stop and I did get my
certification, which was a uhtwo-year program at a lovely
school called um HMI, whichstands for Hypnosis Motivational
Institute out of Tarasana,California.
And at the end of the two years,you graduate with a clinical uh
(02:10):
hypnotherapy uh certification.
But where that ties in to thehair loss is because I
experience firsthand uh bodyfocused repetitive behavior
called trichotillomania.
There are a few, but that is onethat is associated with the
BFRB.
It is a BFRB.
And what that consists of is oneuh pulling their hair out.
(02:32):
Um, and typically you pull itout, you know, like by the root.
Um it's a sensory thing.
It's um uh it's very similar toum OCD, but does have some
differences.
OCD usually people are aware ofwhen they are doing things.
They usually do it because theyfeel that there is a reason.
(02:52):
Like if they don't wash theirhands, they're gonna get sick.
You know, if they wash theirhands, they're gonna get too
many germs, things of that sort.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Body focused not like uh it itches or I've gotta
get this thing out of me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
It's just kind of uh Well, it ha well, it depends.
So with me, it was also becauseI also typically when you have
one body focused repetitivebehavior, it is not uncommon for
it to morph or develop intoanother.
So another very common one,which was some someone that I uh
suffered with, is uhdermatilomania, which basically
(03:25):
that is the uh skin picking orum taking off scabs and digging
and picking and things of thatsort.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
And um the way I'm assuming you weren't uh a
tweaker.
You were this had nothing to dowith crystal met.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
No, no, no.
This stemmed for me with uh itstarted out with pervasive nail
biting when I was six.
I was uh unfortunately I was ina situation where I was um
unmercifully bullied as asix-year-old by kids that were
much, much older than me.
And um, at the time, um, theterm body focused repetitive
behaviors had not been coinedyet.
(04:01):
That didn't come along untilChristina Pearson named that in
the 90s.
Okay.
So when I was going through thisat first with the nail biting,
was when I was uh about six.
I we're talking early 80s here.
I know I'm dating myself, buttalking early 80s.
So by the time we got into the90s, uh, when there was a term
(04:25):
coin for it, I still wasn'texactly sure what it was.
Is at that time I was ateenager, but it went from the
nail biting into the hairpulling.
Okay.
Now, these repetitive behaviorsare typically lifelong once you
get them.
Okay.
Now, what I use hypnotherapy isa way to significantly reduce
(04:45):
the urges.
Okay.
So you will sometimes go in andout of remission.
You know, you'll go out of itwhere you won't be picking
anymore, but then somethingcould happen that may cause you
to pick again.
And unlike OCD, um, body focusedrepetitive behaviors are more
sensory.
So it could stem from anxiety,it could stem from uh as simple
(05:08):
as being bored and you know,watching television, but it is a
um uh self-soothing uh uhbehavior that one takes on in
order to be able to release uhanxiety or anything else that
they may be going through atthat time.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
So I I'm I'm just trying to understand this.
You know, we have so manydifferent guests that have so
many different specialties andexpertises and slices of of
ailments and illnesses, and youknow, I I try to get in and
understand this, and this isreally pretty new to me.
(05:46):
I mean, I've known plenty ofpeople that have bit their
nails, and you know, um most ofthe people I've ever known that
picked themselves had otherproblems that had nothing to do
with this.
But the hair pulling, I I I I'veheard of when you when you
mentioned it, it was like, ohyeah, I have heard of something
(06:07):
like that.
But I I just didn't neverunderstood it.
I never it I never I neverimmersed myself in it, or I
never certainly knew anybodythat that suffered from it.
So when you're going throughthis, I can understand a
trigger, I can understand um,you know, the the reasons that
(06:29):
can cause a behavior, whetherit's a combination of things.
In your case, it seems that itwas a combination of uh of
trauma and a condition that youalready were dealing with.
Um but when you're doing it,does it give you a reward in the
sense Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So I I believe, okay, that it is the same, it's
almost like I believe itprobably releases the same
endorphins that you would thatsomebody would get um if they
were, say, for example, um anaddict.
Okay.
Um I would speak.
Yeah, yeah, it it it very verymuch so.
And what ends up happeningactually is um you when it
(07:15):
happens, you kind of go intoalmost like a like a trance
like, if you will.
Okay.
So it is not uh very, very easy,you know, to to stop.
Okay.
Um it kind of something it justit just kind of takes over and
you just you know, you continue,you know, to pull, pull, pull,
(07:35):
you know, or pick, pick, pick.
For me, it was um the feeling ofsomething on my scalp, like a
pimple or something.
Okay.
And then for someone with a bodyfocused repetitive behavior,
that will cause that's all youneed to start picking at that
pimple, or if there's a scabover it, picking at that scab
(07:56):
and re uh repicking it and thenuh pulling, you know, uh while
you're doing that.
And so then, of course, while atthat time you're getting this
temporary release, becausethat's what it is, um, you are
actually damaging your hairfollicle.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
I can't imagine that being goodfor you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
You're but you're damaging the hair follicle.
And you have on top of that, youhave already now picked a either
dime, nickel, or quarter size,you know, spot, you know, in
your head, you know.
Um, so it's one of those thingswhere you know that it is going
on, but for many people, theyare powerless to stop it, you
(08:42):
know.
And you know, you will havepeople that will say, okay,
well, why don't you just likestop, you know, right?
It's it's it's not as there it'snot as easy as just stopping.
And the reason why is becausethese are neurological
behaviors, okay, that are rootedin the brain's reward and
(09:05):
sensory processing systems.
Okay.
So it's not as easy as justsaying, okay, well, you know, I
could just, you know, get overit.
Um it, it's it's it's it'sdeeper than that because if we
could, we we would.
Nobody wants to do this.
And then what on top of that, itbecomes a cycle.
So typically you do the act inand of itself, and then you
(09:31):
survey the damage by looking inthe mirror, you know, you survey
the damage that has been done,and then now you go through the
guilt and the shame piece of itof you're trying to now hide it
or cover it up, because thingslike this are done, you know, in
private.
This isn't something that isdone in person where everybody
can see.
This is something that you wantto keep secret, like a dirty
(09:53):
little secret, if you will.
And then the cycle starts overagain.
So it's like, okay, you'll makethe decision, okay, I'm not
going to pull anymore.
You know, I have to be stronger.
And again, this also hurts theperson because then they feel
that they don't have willpower.
Okay, but this goes deeper thanwillpower.
(10:14):
Okay.
This is a real disorder, okay,and you need real help with it.
Unfortunately, there isn'tanything in terms of
medication-wise that can helpwith this.
Okay.
So we people use a lot ofdifferent things.
Some people use um cognitivebehavioral therapy, HRT, which
is habit reversal training uhtherapy, mind-body relaxation,
(10:39):
stimulus, control tools,compassion practices.
I typically end up with doinghip with the hypnotherapy and
anchoring techniques.
So an anchoring technique wouldbe something that I add into the
hypnotic script.
For example, I may bringawareness.
So for someone who has a bodyfocused repetitive behavior, and
(11:00):
so that you are, if you're notaware of it, I make it so that
that person is aware of theiraction, and then giving them
something else to do with theirhands to give a better choice,
or something like whenever youfeel the urge to pick, what you
are really feeling is that urgeto study.
(11:23):
And I'm just saying that as anexample because I'm also a
student.
You see what I'm saying?
So it's relative to me.
So when I then feel that urge topick, for me, now that then
translates to, okay, I think Iwant to study.
Do you see how then you can kindof replace one thing with
something else that is a littlebit more positive?
(11:43):
Okay.
And that is known as ananchoring technique, or
something like whenever you feelthe urge to pick, you
immediately bring yourforefinger and your thumb
together, and you press them andhold them for two seconds and
then release.
And immediately you feel calmand you no longer have that urge
(12:05):
that you want to pick.
At that point, I'm building inbringing your forefinger to your
thumb to be able to releasethat.
So a number of different thingscan be used for anchoring
techniques.
Uh, usually during my firstsession with a client, I ask
questions in terms of what wastheir perfect scenery, what's
(12:27):
the perfect scenery for them?
What are things that make themfeel calm?
And I do that because when Ithen build an anchoring
technique, I use whatever thatindividual has said and create
an anchoring technique out ofwhat they've said.
People tend to receive and takein things that they've already
(12:48):
said that are known to them waymore than they would, I think,
than somebody else.
So I like to incorporate many ofthe things that I put into the
script.
They may be a script that I'vecreated for them, but a lot of
(13:52):
it has words and things thatthey have already said to me.
And then I just implement thosewords into the script and then
repeat it back to them.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Well, that makes sense.
So it it seems like you treatthis very similar to how you
might treat an addiction, but itseems that it would be much more
difficult because an addiction,whatever you're addicted to, you
have to go out and get andprepare.
(14:23):
And there's a whole process thatyou have to go and do, whether
it's a drug or food or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
You gotta go and do a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Right.
You gotta seek it out.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
You don't have to do anything, and you can do it
mindlessly.
And on next thing you know, youknow, like nobody thinks about
when you're scratching your heador your face or whatever.
I can imagine it being like thatwhere you you're just not even
aware that you're doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yeah, um, and usually it takes place, you
know, somewhere that is youconsider it to be private, like
I said.
For me, it was, you know, um, inmy bedroom, you know, when I'm
at, you know, late night, whenI'm by myself, you know, reading
a book or whatever, it may bewatching TV or whatever I'm
looking at, you know, for me, itcould be something, you know,
like that.
(15:07):
So what I did also was I alsomuch how somebody would do if
they do have an addiction, youknow, I had to also change my
scenery.
Okay.
Okay.
So for me, and again, thisworked for me, I would leave the
bedroom and then start sittingin another part of my home.
Okay.
So now the scenery is different.
(15:28):
Now I'm out, you know, in theliving room and I'm out to
where, you know, everyone, it'sI'm stuck around people, so
you're not going to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
So now, right.
So now I'm I'm I'm not going todo it, you know.
So um doing things like that.
And it didn't necessarily wasn'tindicative to a specific time,
you know.
Okay.
It could have been during theday at two o'clock, you know, it
could have been any time thatwhenever I I had that urge,
okay.
But um changing my scenery.
(15:57):
And for me, okay, one of thethings that I have brought into
my life, you know, and I don'tknow what your uh in terms of
your audience, you know, I don'tknow in terms of where they are
faith-wise, but for me, I'm abeliever.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
So we have a lot of, it's a pretty wide-ranging
audience, but we have a lot ofbelievers, and I'm okay.
SPEAKER_01 (16:15):
Okay, okay, okay.
So what I do is I lean intoprayer.
Okay.
I lean into, I don't knowscripture well, but thank God
for Chat GPT at Google, becauseI am able to find a scripture
that I want, okay, and I'm ableto read that and decree and
declare on that scripture, okay,and to and and and and be
(16:37):
prayerful, you know, and anddoing that also when I create
for me personally, because I docreate my own hypnotic um
scripts, even for myself.
Um, for me, I do createfaith-based uh hypnotic scripts.
Now, not everybody may wantthat.
Some people, and if you don't,that's fine.
But for but for me, I do.
I believe in uh gettingscripture and bringing in
(17:01):
prayer, and actually thescriptures become the hypnotic
suggestions, okay, and beingable to say that.
And then what happens is whenI'm with a client, when they are
telling me initially what theyare going through, that's not
the part that I record.
When I start to do the actualscript and the detailed imagery
(17:23):
and going into the induction andall of that, that's the piece of
it that I record.
So then what I do is I then sendthat recording, which is about
anywhere from 20 minutes to 25minutes long.
I will then send that recordingto the client and they will
listen to that nightly, or ifthey can't nightly, at least
(17:45):
maybe four to five nights outthe week or first thing in the
morning when they get up.
So what happens is by listeningthat in between the time that we
have our one-on-one sessions onZoom, that doubles down
everything that we have beentalking about.
Okay, and it really allows it toget in there, even if you happen
(18:07):
to fall asleep on it.
Because remember, beta is wherewe are now, okay.
Okay.
Then after that, you have, Ibelieve it is theta, is no,
that's underneath.
So you have beta, and you mayhave to help me with this if you
know.
I'm kind of blanking on it.
Do it before I got on here.
All of a sudden now it's ablank, but I know it's beta and
(18:29):
then alpha.
I'm sorry, alpha is next, andthen you have beta and delta.
SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
Delta, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Delta.
So delta is typically our sleep,okay.
However, when you are inhypnosis and you are in between
that sleep and awake, right inthat section right there, that I
believe is when you are in thattheta state of mind, okay.
(18:57):
And that that, yeah, then thatyou're right in between sleep
and awake.
And typically that's yeah, andthat's typically how hypnosis
makes you feel.
It kind of makes you you kind ofgo in and out.
You're in between, like that,you know, sleep and awake
feeling, okay.
But you are still very muchaware of what's going on, and
um, that's typically that's getsthen into your subconscious,
(19:21):
okay.
So even if you do happen to fallasleep, I hope that you don't,
but I've been told I have arelaxing voice.
So if someone does go to sleep,it's still getting in there,
it's still playing into the thedata, the data state as well,
you know.
And alpha, that's more of whenyou are very creative, that
wakes up that creative statewhen alpha that's when some
(19:42):
changes and things like that areable to take place, you know.
So for me, I lean into all ofthat.
And you asked before about thedifferent certifications.
So the hair loss specialist wassomething that I added, and I
added that because when you aregoing through something like a
body focused repetitivebehavior, and the one thing that
(20:04):
bothers you is the hair lossbecause you pulled for
trichotillomania, that that hairis able to grow back.
Okay.
So we are I'm able to be able totake a look at that through a
scope and get a look at yourhair follicles, see in terms of
what stage are they in.
Is it the antigen phase and thetelegram phase to see which
(20:27):
phase that the hair is in, andthen be able to prescribe at
that point supplements.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
That and that then helps with the hair to be
regrowth.
Now, obviously, hair does notgrow back overnight, but it does
something for the self-esteemand for you as a person to know
that okay, what I've done canalso be remedied.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
With the hair, with the hair loss that you treat, is
it typically or exclusively dueto the repetitive body focused
repetitive behaviors, or itcould be anything?
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
It could be anything.
Um, and and not everyone is ableto hair is not able to grow
back.
Some people it's not, but forthose that are that it does,
it's not just for this.
I brought this in as a way forme because I came from that
experience, okay.
So I thought this would besomething as really, really good
to be able to add to really helppeople, but it is not just for
(21:30):
um people who go through anddeal with trigotillomania.
Um female pattern hair loss,okay.
Um DHT, okay, which is thehormone that as we get older,
especially women when you kindof get into menopause, you are
not making as much estrogen.
You're making more testosterone.
So DHT that then comes out andthat prohibits it by it messes
(21:55):
with the hair follicles andinhibits the hair to grow full.
So that's why sometimes you willsee um people where they may
have hair around the sides andaround the back of the head and
maybe even the very front, butthe crown may be very, very
thin.
Okay.
Or with women, as they getolder, when they part the hair,
(22:17):
the hair, the part gets widerand wider and wider.
That's where that kind of comesinto play.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Got it.
Wow.
Wow.
So I I imagine, and I alwayslike to get a story, you know,
this sounds like really profoundwork that you're doing.
And I imagine you've helped alot of people in a profound way,
especially yourself.
But there's generally a story ortwo that stick out as somebody
(22:46):
that you just really made animpact on that that touched you.
Would you like to share a story?
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, I actually um uh mentionedthis on another podcast, and I
mentioned all the time becauseit's very near and dear to my
heart.
There was a um a woman I was umworking with, and um, she had a
couple of things that were goingon.
She had the trichotillomania,okay, but on top of that, she
happened to be in a um a verydifficult uh relationship with
(23:17):
someone um who was had very hightraits of narcissism.
So she was really, really in ahard situation.
And the relationship itselfexacerbated, you know, the hair
pulling, okay, that she wasgoing through.
So uh she was isolated, youknow, um, and because of the
relationship, she was isolated.
(23:38):
She wasn't in a position whereshe was able to um have the
financial means to be able tomove out and do what she needed
to do, mainly because thepartner she was with um would uh
was manipulative and wouldgaslight her, make her think
that she was didn't have achance to be able to get
anything more because she was anobody.
(23:59):
That's pretty much what he said.
So in this, I worked with herand I combined the coaching, you
know, aspect of it.
Um, and I use um what coachestypically use is the grow model.
Okay.
So grow stands for goal.
R is for um growth for yourreality, O is for like what
(24:21):
options are out there, and W isfor your way forward or how
you're going to proceed.
So when I started working withher, I actually first asked her
questions based on that model.
Okay, um, what would your goal,what was that look like if you
didn't have to deal with thistype of behavior, this toxicity
(24:43):
and your life?
What would that look like?
And it was so much she wasn'table to even really put it into
terms at that point.
So I made it a little simpler.
I said, so imagine that you havegone on vacation with your
friends, okay, and or withfamily.
I said, and this person is notthere with you, and you're just
(25:04):
there either by yourself or withyour friends and family.
What's the goal there?
Like, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
And just even saying that, to imagine that her face
lit up, right?
Because even just that allowedher to feel free.
Right.
So what we did was I puttogether a plan for her and with
the coaching, we looked at okay,her goal, okay, kind of where
(25:34):
she wanted to go, okay, um,where she is now and what
options.
So when we got to the optionspiece of it, she indicated that
there was another position thatshe wanted to get a promotion
for.
I said she met the criteria forbeing the time met.
Usually, you know, you have tobe in a position for a certain
(25:55):
length of time before you canpost out into another position
in the workforce.
Okay.
She had been in the role forquite some time, so she had the
time, but because of the putdown and feeling so devalued,
okay, and that she wasn't ableto do anything right.
This is what she was gettingfrom her partner, okay.
(26:18):
She doubted herself if she wouldbe a good fit for this position.
So I worked with her, okay.
Um, my background prior tocoming into hypnotherapy, I was
a recruiter for about 25 years.
So HR is my background.
So this felt was right in linewith me in terms of knowing what
(26:38):
to do with this because I'vebeen a recruiter and have been
placing candidates withpositions for such a long time.
So for me, um, I worked withher.
I helped her in terms of doinguh um um rewriting her resume
and encouraged her to have aconversation with the hiring
manager of that particular jobthat she wanted to go for.
(26:59):
And in doing so, you know, heallowed her to then be able to
saw where she was strong withcertain things and then allowed
her to pair with a peer at herjob, a peer coach, to be able to
help her become stronger in theother things she needed to do in
order to be a success in thatrole.
And in four months, she was ableto apply and did get the
(27:24):
position.
And I was very happy for her.
So, with that, brought now asense of confidence, okay, and a
confidence of seeing this issomething that I did.
So now we have now completelydestroyed the distortion, okay,
that she can't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
That's now been displayed.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's lost his power.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
That's gone.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:49):
You ever see that movie Labyrinth?
No, and the Muppets.
It's a great movie, it's alittle cult movie, anyways.
It it's a story about thisgoblin king who runs this whole
world and this girl who findsher way into it at the very end
of it.
It's you have no power over me.
That was and and it just brokethe spell.
(28:12):
And you know, it seems likethat's kind of like what you did
is you you got just break thatspell.
You don't have any poweranymore.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
Yes, and and and and in getting that and getting that
position, that really made a bigdifference.
I then encouraged her to takebaby steps, start back with
getting in contact with friends,okay?
Um, getting your support systemback because one of the things
that being in those types oftoxic relationships does is they
(28:42):
do isolate you and divide youfrom friends and family and
people who care about you.
Okay.
So she felt very alone.
So slowly but surely she wasable to uh join clubs even at
work.
Okay.
And then within about anotherfew months after that, she was
able to then move out becauseshe was able to then kind of
(29:04):
return home to her mom's houseand stay until she was able to
then move back out into her ownplace again.
So that was that was just like,and you know, I don't work with
her anymore, you know, but sheis somebody who was very uh it's
it was a client who was verynear and dear to my heart, and
still I still you know check inwith her to this day.
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
You have to feel proud about that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Well, listen, as I suspected, we're gonna be we got
into all this stuff.
We didn't even trap the surface,we didn't get into your uh drink
that, eats this, travels, right?
Yes, but yes, I would love toinvite you back to continue this
conversation.
Um, but I'd like to always giveyou an opportunity to kind of
(29:53):
circle back around and and andleave our listeners with sort of
a parting thought.
What would you what would you dowith that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Well, I will say this just know wherever you are,
whoever you are, you don'tdeserve to be treated less than,
okay.
Many times when you think youare alone, you're really not.
Um, there are more people goingthrough what you are going
through than you think.
Okay.
Do not isolate yourself.
(30:22):
That is the worst thing you cando.
Okay.
Talk to someone, tell someone.
If you are in a relationshipwhere you are you are with
someone who is an abuser, thenyou do have to tread lightly
with that.
But find other resources in asense of if you are out, being
(30:42):
able to form a group, okay,group of people or friends who
may be going through the samething.
And even if they're not, even ifit's at your job, getting
involved in different peergroups and things of that, even
at your job, many times if youare in an abusive relationship,
trying to To go out with friendsis not an option because you are
(31:04):
prohibited from doing so.
So whatever you have to do, youhave to do while you are already
out of the home.
Okay.
So doing things at work, makingfriendships, you know, um,
talking to a manager or asupervisor director who you
trust, letting them know thatthere's things are going on.
And if something happens, whatto do?
(31:26):
Creating safe little smallspaces like that for yourself.
And if you are a believer,prayer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Please do it.
Please do it.
Please do it.
God has not forgotten you.
In fact, He wants to hear fromyou.
He wants to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Where you can get the most closer, the closer to
God is when you're in yourdifficult time.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
100%.
Absolutely.
Well, I know that you're basedout of Philadelphia, but do you
do only in-person work or do youremote work?
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
I do I work remotely majority of the time.
I work remotely.
But for those that are in thePhiladelphia area that would
like to meet in person, I willdo that.
But I typically work a Zoomplatform, you know, and if that
doesn't work, then you knowthere's WhatsApp or, you know,
any other, you know, platformsout there, you know.
But I I work um remotely.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
Well, based on that, um, if any of our listeners
wants to uh reach out to you orget a hold of you or learn more,
how would they do that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
Well, you can do this a couple of different ways.
You can reach me on my website,which is um www.three two one
deepsleep.com.
And 321 is just the numbers,321.
It's not spelling out the wordfor 32 and one.
It's just the numbers321dee.com.
And uh my email address is myfirst name, Keisha, which is
(32:56):
K-I-S-H-A at 321deepsleep.com.
And then I have another emailaddress, which is a Gmail
address.
It's 321 Deepsleep Hypnotherapyat gmail.com.
So those are uh three differentways to be able to get in in
contact with me.
(33:16):
Um give me about maybe uh a dayto be able to get right back to
you if you leave theinformation, but I will uh
respond and be able to kind ofset up something where we can
talk.
And anybody listening on yourshow, if they, you know, um let
me know, like in the beginning,that they heard from me on your
show, I will give um 10% off ofthe 10 15 off of the package.
SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Well, I appreciate you joiningme.
And again, I hope you take me upon my offer to continue.
Oh, I will transition.
We've got a lot more to talkabout.
And uh I didn't ask a bunch ofquestions, I wanted to because I
you were on a good roll and I Ididn't want to derail you.
So so I look forward to that.
But most importantly, I'm justgrateful that you came out here
(34:04):
and and and shared yourexperience with everybody.
And uh just want to thank youfor being on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Oh, absolutely, and thank you for having me.
I absolutely appreciate it.
And I will be back.
I will be back.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Wonderful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumban.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners for making this show
possible, and we will see younext time.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Keisha Reynolds, andshe's a certified clinical
hypnotherapist and a certifiedhair loss specialist and a life
coach based out of Philadelphia.
(00:33):
She's a leading advocate forbody-focused repetitive
behaviors.
She blends expertise with alived experience to bring
awareness to these oftenmisunderstood OCD-related
conditions.
Keisha, I don't need to go anyfurther than that.
That's a great uh slice ofrepertoire there.
(00:53):
And welcome to the show.
So glad you could join us.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Thank you, Joe.
Thank you for having me on.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Wonderful, wonderful.
Well, as we get started, um, Ialways like to introduce a guest
by sharing sort of their Genesisstory.
Like, how did you you you'vetaken off a pretty big slice of
credentials there?
A hypnotherapist, a certifiedhair loss specialist, and a life
coach.
What brought you to all these uhamazing places?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Well, they actually all kind of lead into one,
actually.
So I started out in uhhypnotherapy.
I've always had a love for uhmental health.
And um this is my way of beingable to do that.
I am continuing on with my umacademic journey to become a
clinical um uh side D for aclinical, clinical psychologist.
(01:47):
So I am continuing on my uhacademic journey with that.
But um I did along the way, Idid stop and I did get my
certification, which was a uhtwo-year program at a lovely
school called um HMI, whichstands for Hypnosis Motivational
Institute out of Tarasana,California.
And at the end of the two years,you graduate with a clinical uh
(02:10):
hypnotherapy uh certification.
But where that ties in to thehair loss is because I
experience firsthand uh bodyfocused repetitive behavior
called trichotillomania.
There are a few, but that is onethat is associated with the
BFRB.
It is a BFRB.
And what that consists of is oneuh pulling their hair out.
(02:32):
Um, and typically you pull itout, you know, like by the root.
Um it's a sensory thing.
It's um uh it's very similar toum OCD, but does have some
differences.
OCD usually people are aware ofwhen they are doing things.
They usually do it because theyfeel that there is a reason.
(02:52):
Like if they don't wash theirhands, they're gonna get sick.
You know, if they wash theirhands, they're gonna get too
many germs, things of that sort.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Body focused not like uh it itches or I've gotta
get this thing out of me.
SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
It's just kind of uh Well, it ha well, it depends.
So with me, it was also becauseI also typically when you have
one body focused repetitivebehavior, it is not uncommon for
it to morph or develop intoanother.
So another very common one,which was some someone that I uh
suffered with, is uhdermatilomania, which basically
(03:25):
that is the uh skin picking orum taking off scabs and digging
and picking and things of thatsort.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
And um the way I'm assuming you weren't uh a
tweaker.
You were this had nothing to dowith crystal met.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
No, no, no.
This stemmed for me with uh itstarted out with pervasive nail
biting when I was six.
I was uh unfortunately I was ina situation where I was um
unmercifully bullied as asix-year-old by kids that were
much, much older than me.
And um, at the time, um, theterm body focused repetitive
behaviors had not been coinedyet.
(04:01):
That didn't come along untilChristina Pearson named that in
the 90s.
Okay.
So when I was going through thisat first with the nail biting,
was when I was uh about six.
I we're talking early 80s here.
I know I'm dating myself, buttalking early 80s.
So by the time we got into the90s, uh, when there was a term
(04:25):
coin for it, I still wasn'texactly sure what it was.
Is at that time I was ateenager, but it went from the
nail biting into the hairpulling.
Okay.
Now, these repetitive behaviorsare typically lifelong once you
get them.
Okay.
Now, what I use hypnotherapy isa way to significantly reduce
(04:45):
the urges.
Okay.
So you will sometimes go in andout of remission.
You know, you'll go out of itwhere you won't be picking
anymore, but then somethingcould happen that may cause you
to pick again.
And unlike OCD, um, body focusedrepetitive behaviors are more
sensory.
So it could stem from anxiety,it could stem from uh as simple
(05:08):
as being bored and you know,watching television, but it is a
um uh self-soothing uh uhbehavior that one takes on in
order to be able to release uhanxiety or anything else that
they may be going through atthat time.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
So I I'm I'm just trying to understand this.
You know, we have so manydifferent guests that have so
many different specialties andexpertises and slices of of
ailments and illnesses, and youknow, I I try to get in and
understand this, and this isreally pretty new to me.
(05:46):
I mean, I've known plenty ofpeople that have bit their
nails, and you know, um most ofthe people I've ever known that
picked themselves had otherproblems that had nothing to do
with this.
But the hair pulling, I I I I'veheard of when you when you
mentioned it, it was like, ohyeah, I have heard of something
(06:07):
like that.
But I I just didn't neverunderstood it.
I never it I never I neverimmersed myself in it, or I
never certainly knew anybodythat that suffered from it.
So when you're going throughthis, I can understand a
trigger, I can understand um,you know, the the reasons that
(06:29):
can cause a behavior, whetherit's a combination of things.
In your case, it seems that itwas a combination of uh of
trauma and a condition that youalready were dealing with.
Um but when you're doing it,does it give you a reward in the
sense Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
So I I believe, okay, that it is the same, it's
almost like I believe itprobably releases the same
endorphins that you would thatsomebody would get um if they
were, say, for example, um anaddict.
Okay.
Um I would speak.
Yeah, yeah, it it it very verymuch so.
And what ends up happeningactually is um you when it
(07:15):
happens, you kind of go intoalmost like a like a trance
like, if you will.
Okay.
So it is not uh very, very easy,you know, to to stop.
Okay.
Um it kind of something it justit just kind of takes over and
you just you know, you continue,you know, to pull, pull, pull,
(07:35):
you know, or pick, pick, pick.
For me, it was um the feeling ofsomething on my scalp, like a
pimple or something.
Okay.
And then for someone with a bodyfocused repetitive behavior,
that will cause that's all youneed to start picking at that
pimple, or if there's a scabover it, picking at that scab
(07:56):
and re uh repicking it and thenuh pulling, you know, uh while
you're doing that.
And so then, of course, while atthat time you're getting this
temporary release, becausethat's what it is, um, you are
actually damaging your hairfollicle.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Oh, yeah.
I can't imagine that being goodfor you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
You're but you're damaging the hair follicle.
And you have on top of that, youhave already now picked a either
dime, nickel, or quarter size,you know, spot, you know, in
your head, you know.
Um, so it's one of those thingswhere you know that it is going
on, but for many people, theyare powerless to stop it, you
(08:42):
know.
And you know, you will havepeople that will say, okay,
well, why don't you just likestop, you know, right?
It's it's it's not as there it'snot as easy as just stopping.
And the reason why is becausethese are neurological
behaviors, okay, that are rootedin the brain's reward and
(09:05):
sensory processing systems.
Okay.
So it's not as easy as justsaying, okay, well, you know, I
could just, you know, get overit.
Um it, it's it's it's it'sdeeper than that because if we
could, we we would.
Nobody wants to do this.
And then what on top of that, itbecomes a cycle.
So typically you do the act inand of itself, and then you
(09:31):
survey the damage by looking inthe mirror, you know, you survey
the damage that has been done,and then now you go through the
guilt and the shame piece of itof you're trying to now hide it
or cover it up, because thingslike this are done, you know, in
private.
This isn't something that isdone in person where everybody
can see.
This is something that you wantto keep secret, like a dirty
(09:53):
little secret, if you will.
And then the cycle starts overagain.
So it's like, okay, you'll makethe decision, okay, I'm not
going to pull anymore.
You know, I have to be stronger.
And again, this also hurts theperson because then they feel
that they don't have willpower.
Okay, but this goes deeper thanwillpower.
(10:14):
Okay.
This is a real disorder, okay,and you need real help with it.
Unfortunately, there isn'tanything in terms of
medication-wise that can helpwith this.
Okay.
So we people use a lot ofdifferent things.
Some people use um cognitivebehavioral therapy, HRT, which
is habit reversal training uhtherapy, mind-body relaxation,
(10:39):
stimulus, control tools,compassion practices.
I typically end up with doinghip with the hypnotherapy and
anchoring techniques.
So an anchoring technique wouldbe something that I add into the
hypnotic script.
For example, I may bringawareness.
So for someone who has a bodyfocused repetitive behavior, and
(11:00):
so that you are, if you're notaware of it, I make it so that
that person is aware of theiraction, and then giving them
something else to do with theirhands to give a better choice,
or something like whenever youfeel the urge to pick, what you
are really feeling is that urgeto study.
(11:23):
And I'm just saying that as anexample because I'm also a
student.
You see what I'm saying?
So it's relative to me.
So when I then feel that urge topick, for me, now that then
translates to, okay, I think Iwant to study.
Do you see how then you can kindof replace one thing with
something else that is a littlebit more positive?
(11:43):
Okay.
And that is known as ananchoring technique, or
something like whenever you feelthe urge to pick, you
immediately bring yourforefinger and your thumb
together, and you press them andhold them for two seconds and
then release.
And immediately you feel calmand you no longer have that urge
(12:05):
that you want to pick.
At that point, I'm building inbringing your forefinger to your
thumb to be able to releasethat.
So a number of different thingscan be used for anchoring
techniques.
Uh, usually during my firstsession with a client, I ask
questions in terms of what wastheir perfect scenery, what's
(12:27):
the perfect scenery for them?
What are things that make themfeel calm?
And I do that because when Ithen build an anchoring
technique, I use whatever thatindividual has said and create
an anchoring technique out ofwhat they've said.
People tend to receive and takein things that they've already
(12:48):
said that are known to them waymore than they would, I think,
than somebody else.
So I like to incorporate many ofthe things that I put into the
script.
They may be a script that I'vecreated for them, but a lot of
(13:52):
it has words and things thatthey have already said to me.
And then I just implement thosewords into the script and then
repeat it back to them.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
Well, that makes sense.
So it it seems like you treatthis very similar to how you
might treat an addiction, but itseems that it would be much more
difficult because an addiction,whatever you're addicted to, you
have to go out and get andprepare.
(14:23):
And there's a whole process thatyou have to go and do, whether
it's a drug or food or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
You gotta go and do a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
Right.
You gotta seek it out.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
You don't have to do anything, and you can do it
mindlessly.
And on next thing you know, youknow, like nobody thinks about
when you're scratching your heador your face or whatever.
I can imagine it being like thatwhere you you're just not even
aware that you're doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yeah, um, and usually it takes place, you
know, somewhere that is youconsider it to be private, like
I said.
For me, it was, you know, um, inmy bedroom, you know, when I'm
at, you know, late night, whenI'm by myself, you know, reading
a book or whatever, it may bewatching TV or whatever I'm
looking at, you know, for me, itcould be something, you know,
like that.
(15:07):
So what I did also was I alsomuch how somebody would do if
they do have an addiction, youknow, I had to also change my
scenery.
Okay.
Okay.
So for me, and again, thisworked for me, I would leave the
bedroom and then start sittingin another part of my home.
Okay.
So now the scenery is different.
(15:28):
Now I'm out, you know, in theliving room and I'm out to
where, you know, everyone, it'sI'm stuck around people, so
you're not going to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
So now, right.
So now I'm I'm I'm not going todo it, you know.
So um doing things like that.
And it didn't necessarily wasn'tindicative to a specific time,
you know.
Okay.
It could have been during theday at two o'clock, you know, it
could have been any time thatwhenever I I had that urge,
okay.
But um changing my scenery.
(15:57):
And for me, okay, one of thethings that I have brought into
my life, you know, and I don'tknow what your uh in terms of
your audience, you know, I don'tknow in terms of where they are
faith-wise, but for me, I'm abeliever.
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
So we have a lot of, it's a pretty wide-ranging
audience, but we have a lot ofbelievers, and I'm okay.
SPEAKER_01 (16:15):
Okay, okay, okay.
So what I do is I lean intoprayer.
Okay.
I lean into, I don't knowscripture well, but thank God
for Chat GPT at Google, becauseI am able to find a scripture
that I want, okay, and I'm ableto read that and decree and
declare on that scripture, okay,and to and and and and be
(16:37):
prayerful, you know, and anddoing that also when I create
for me personally, because I docreate my own hypnotic um
scripts, even for myself.
Um, for me, I do createfaith-based uh hypnotic scripts.
Now, not everybody may wantthat.
Some people, and if you don't,that's fine.
But for but for me, I do.
I believe in uh gettingscripture and bringing in
(17:01):
prayer, and actually thescriptures become the hypnotic
suggestions, okay, and beingable to say that.
And then what happens is whenI'm with a client, when they are
telling me initially what theyare going through, that's not
the part that I record.
When I start to do the actualscript and the detailed imagery
(17:23):
and going into the induction andall of that, that's the piece of
it that I record.
So then what I do is I then sendthat recording, which is about
anywhere from 20 minutes to 25minutes long.
I will then send that recordingto the client and they will
listen to that nightly, or ifthey can't nightly, at least
(17:45):
maybe four to five nights outthe week or first thing in the
morning when they get up.
So what happens is by listeningthat in between the time that we
have our one-on-one sessions onZoom, that doubles down
everything that we have beentalking about.
Okay, and it really allows it toget in there, even if you happen
(18:07):
to fall asleep on it.
Because remember, beta is wherewe are now, okay.
Okay.
Then after that, you have, Ibelieve it is theta, is no,
that's underneath.
So you have beta, and you mayhave to help me with this if you
know.
I'm kind of blanking on it.
Do it before I got on here.
All of a sudden now it's ablank, but I know it's beta and
(18:29):
then alpha.
I'm sorry, alpha is next, andthen you have beta and delta.
SPEAKER_00 (18:34):
Delta, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
Delta.
So delta is typically our sleep,okay.
However, when you are inhypnosis and you are in between
that sleep and awake, right inthat section right there, that I
believe is when you are in thattheta state of mind, okay.
(18:57):
And that that, yeah, then thatyou're right in between sleep
and awake.
And typically that's yeah, andthat's typically how hypnosis
makes you feel.
It kind of makes you you kind ofgo in and out.
You're in between, like that,you know, sleep and awake
feeling, okay.
But you are still very muchaware of what's going on, and
um, that's typically that's getsthen into your subconscious,
(19:21):
okay.
So even if you do happen to fallasleep, I hope that you don't,
but I've been told I have arelaxing voice.
So if someone does go to sleep,it's still getting in there,
it's still playing into the thedata, the data state as well,
you know.
And alpha, that's more of whenyou are very creative, that
wakes up that creative statewhen alpha that's when some
(19:42):
changes and things like that areable to take place, you know.
So for me, I lean into all ofthat.
And you asked before about thedifferent certifications.
So the hair loss specialist wassomething that I added, and I
added that because when you aregoing through something like a
body focused repetitivebehavior, and the one thing that
(20:04):
bothers you is the hair lossbecause you pulled for
trichotillomania, that that hairis able to grow back.
Okay.
So we are I'm able to be able totake a look at that through a
scope and get a look at yourhair follicles, see in terms of
what stage are they in.
Is it the antigen phase and thetelegram phase to see which
(20:27):
phase that the hair is in, andthen be able to prescribe at
that point supplements.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
That and that then helps with the hair to be
regrowth.
Now, obviously, hair does notgrow back overnight, but it does
something for the self-esteemand for you as a person to know
that okay, what I've done canalso be remedied.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
With the hair, with the hair loss that you treat, is
it typically or exclusively dueto the repetitive body focused
repetitive behaviors, or itcould be anything?
SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
It could be anything.
Um, and and not everyone is ableto hair is not able to grow
back.
Some people it's not, but forthose that are that it does,
it's not just for this.
I brought this in as a way forme because I came from that
experience, okay.
So I thought this would besomething as really, really good
to be able to add to really helppeople, but it is not just for
(21:30):
um people who go through anddeal with trigotillomania.
Um female pattern hair loss,okay.
Um DHT, okay, which is thehormone that as we get older,
especially women when you kindof get into menopause, you are
not making as much estrogen.
You're making more testosterone.
So DHT that then comes out andthat prohibits it by it messes
(21:55):
with the hair follicles andinhibits the hair to grow full.
So that's why sometimes you willsee um people where they may
have hair around the sides andaround the back of the head and
maybe even the very front, butthe crown may be very, very
thin.
Okay.
Or with women, as they getolder, when they part the hair,
(22:17):
the hair, the part gets widerand wider and wider.
That's where that kind of comesinto play.
SPEAKER_00 (22:23):
Got it.
Wow.
Wow.
So I I imagine, and I alwayslike to get a story, you know,
this sounds like really profoundwork that you're doing.
And I imagine you've helped alot of people in a profound way,
especially yourself.
But there's generally a story ortwo that stick out as somebody
(22:46):
that you just really made animpact on that that touched you.
Would you like to share a story?
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, I actually um uh mentionedthis on another podcast, and I
mentioned all the time becauseit's very near and dear to my
heart.
There was a um a woman I was umworking with, and um, she had a
couple of things that were goingon.
She had the trichotillomania,okay, but on top of that, she
happened to be in a um a verydifficult uh relationship with
(23:17):
someone um who was had very hightraits of narcissism.
So she was really, really in ahard situation.
And the relationship itselfexacerbated, you know, the hair
pulling, okay, that she wasgoing through.
So uh she was isolated, youknow, um, and because of the
relationship, she was isolated.
(23:38):
She wasn't in a position whereshe was able to um have the
financial means to be able tomove out and do what she needed
to do, mainly because thepartner she was with um would uh
was manipulative and wouldgaslight her, make her think
that she was didn't have achance to be able to get
anything more because she was anobody.
(23:59):
That's pretty much what he said.
So in this, I worked with herand I combined the coaching, you
know, aspect of it.
Um, and I use um what coachestypically use is the grow model.
Okay.
So grow stands for goal.
R is for um growth for yourreality, O is for like what
(24:21):
options are out there, and W isfor your way forward or how
you're going to proceed.
So when I started working withher, I actually first asked her
questions based on that model.
Okay, um, what would your goal,what was that look like if you
didn't have to deal with thistype of behavior, this toxicity
(24:43):
and your life?
What would that look like?
And it was so much she wasn'table to even really put it into
terms at that point.
So I made it a little simpler.
I said, so imagine that you havegone on vacation with your
friends, okay, and or withfamily.
I said, and this person is notthere with you, and you're just
(25:04):
there either by yourself or withyour friends and family.
What's the goal there?
Like, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (25:12):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:12):
And just even saying that, to imagine that her face
lit up, right?
Because even just that allowedher to feel free.
Right.
So what we did was I puttogether a plan for her and with
the coaching, we looked at okay,her goal, okay, kind of where
(25:34):
she wanted to go, okay, um,where she is now and what
options.
So when we got to the optionspiece of it, she indicated that
there was another position thatshe wanted to get a promotion
for.
I said she met the criteria forbeing the time met.
Usually, you know, you have tobe in a position for a certain
(25:55):
length of time before you canpost out into another position
in the workforce.
Okay.
She had been in the role forquite some time, so she had the
time, but because of the putdown and feeling so devalued,
okay, and that she wasn't ableto do anything right.
This is what she was gettingfrom her partner, okay.
(26:18):
She doubted herself if she wouldbe a good fit for this position.
So I worked with her, okay.
Um, my background prior tocoming into hypnotherapy, I was
a recruiter for about 25 years.
So HR is my background.
So this felt was right in linewith me in terms of knowing what
(26:38):
to do with this because I'vebeen a recruiter and have been
placing candidates withpositions for such a long time.
So for me, um, I worked withher.
I helped her in terms of doinguh um um rewriting her resume
and encouraged her to have aconversation with the hiring
manager of that particular jobthat she wanted to go for.
(26:59):
And in doing so, you know, heallowed her to then be able to
saw where she was strong withcertain things and then allowed
her to pair with a peer at herjob, a peer coach, to be able to
help her become stronger in theother things she needed to do in
order to be a success in thatrole.
And in four months, she was ableto apply and did get the
(27:24):
position.
And I was very happy for her.
So, with that, brought now asense of confidence, okay, and a
confidence of seeing this issomething that I did.
So now we have now completelydestroyed the distortion, okay,
that she can't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
That's now been displayed.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, that's lost his power.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
That's gone.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:49):
You ever see that movie Labyrinth?
No, and the Muppets.
It's a great movie, it's alittle cult movie, anyways.
It it's a story about thisgoblin king who runs this whole
world and this girl who findsher way into it at the very end
of it.
It's you have no power over me.
That was and and it just brokethe spell.
(28:12):
And you know, it seems likethat's kind of like what you did
is you you got just break thatspell.
You don't have any poweranymore.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
Yes, and and and and in getting that and getting that
position, that really made a bigdifference.
I then encouraged her to takebaby steps, start back with
getting in contact with friends,okay?
Um, getting your support systemback because one of the things
that being in those types oftoxic relationships does is they
(28:42):
do isolate you and divide youfrom friends and family and
people who care about you.
Okay.
So she felt very alone.
So slowly but surely she wasable to uh join clubs even at
work.
Okay.
And then within about anotherfew months after that, she was
able to then move out becauseshe was able to then kind of
(29:04):
return home to her mom's houseand stay until she was able to
then move back out into her ownplace again.
So that was that was just like,and you know, I don't work with
her anymore, you know, but sheis somebody who was very uh it's
it was a client who was verynear and dear to my heart, and
still I still you know check inwith her to this day.
SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
You have to feel proud about that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Well, listen, as I suspected, we're gonna be we got
into all this stuff.
We didn't even trap the surface,we didn't get into your uh drink
that, eats this, travels, right?
Yes, but yes, I would love toinvite you back to continue this
conversation.
Um, but I'd like to always giveyou an opportunity to kind of
(29:53):
circle back around and and andleave our listeners with sort of
a parting thought.
What would you what would you dowith that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Well, I will say this just know wherever you are,
whoever you are, you don'tdeserve to be treated less than,
okay.
Many times when you think youare alone, you're really not.
Um, there are more people goingthrough what you are going
through than you think.
Okay.
Do not isolate yourself.
(30:22):
That is the worst thing you cando.
Okay.
Talk to someone, tell someone.
If you are in a relationshipwhere you are you are with
someone who is an abuser, thenyou do have to tread lightly
with that.
But find other resources in asense of if you are out, being
(30:42):
able to form a group, okay,group of people or friends who
may be going through the samething.
And even if they're not, even ifit's at your job, getting
involved in different peergroups and things of that, even
at your job, many times if youare in an abusive relationship,
trying to To go out with friendsis not an option because you are
(31:04):
prohibited from doing so.
So whatever you have to do, youhave to do while you are already
out of the home.
Okay.
So doing things at work, makingfriendships, you know, um,
talking to a manager or asupervisor director who you
trust, letting them know thatthere's things are going on.
And if something happens, whatto do?
(31:26):
Creating safe little smallspaces like that for yourself.
And if you are a believer,prayer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
Please do it.
Please do it.
Please do it.
God has not forgotten you.
In fact, He wants to hear fromyou.
He wants to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Where you can get the most closer, the closer to
God is when you're in yourdifficult time.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
100%.
Absolutely.
Well, I know that you're basedout of Philadelphia, but do you
do only in-person work or do youremote work?
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
I do I work remotely majority of the time.
I work remotely.
But for those that are in thePhiladelphia area that would
like to meet in person, I willdo that.
But I typically work a Zoomplatform, you know, and if that
doesn't work, then you knowthere's WhatsApp or, you know,
any other, you know, platformsout there, you know.
But I I work um remotely.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
Well, based on that, um, if any of our listeners
wants to uh reach out to you orget a hold of you or learn more,
how would they do that?
SPEAKER_01 (32:34):
Well, you can do this a couple of different ways.
You can reach me on my website,which is um www.three two one
deepsleep.com.
And 321 is just the numbers,321.
It's not spelling out the wordfor 32 and one.
It's just the numbers321dee.com.
And uh my email address is myfirst name, Keisha, which is
(32:56):
K-I-S-H-A at 321deepsleep.com.
And then I have another emailaddress, which is a Gmail
address.
It's 321 Deepsleep Hypnotherapyat gmail.com.
So those are uh three differentways to be able to get in in
contact with me.
(33:16):
Um give me about maybe uh a dayto be able to get right back to
you if you leave theinformation, but I will uh
respond and be able to kind ofset up something where we can
talk.
And anybody listening on yourshow, if they, you know, um let
me know, like in the beginning,that they heard from me on your
show, I will give um 10% off ofthe 10 15 off of the package.
SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Well, I appreciate you joiningme.
And again, I hope you take me upon my offer to continue.
Oh, I will transition.
We've got a lot more to talkabout.
And uh I didn't ask a bunch ofquestions, I wanted to because I
you were on a good roll and I Ididn't want to derail you.
So so I look forward to that.
But most importantly, I'm justgrateful that you came out here
(34:04):
and and and shared yourexperience with everybody.
And uh just want to thank youfor being on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (34:11):
Oh, absolutely, and thank you for having me.
I absolutely appreciate it.
And I will be back.
I will be back.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Wonderful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumban.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners for making this show
possible, and we will see younext time.
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