October 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Most elderberry syrups start with water. Ours starts with a farm. We sit down with Russell Carter of Heartland Elderberry Farms to unpack how a beekeeping family scaled from 50 shrubs to tens of thousands of plants—and why using fresh, fast-frozen elderberry juice changes everything from flavor to potency. If you’ve ever wondered why some syrups taste thin or overly sweet, the answer often hides in plain sight on the label: water first, dehydrated imports behind it, and heat steps that cost you nutrients long before a bottle ships.
Russell takes us into the field and through the bottling room. He explains American elderberry varieties that fruit on primocanes, the heavy water needs that demand irrigation, and a harvest routine that moves berries from morning picking to afternoon pressing to frozen juice by night. That quick turnaround protects anthocyanins and polyphenols while keeping microbes in check—no preservatives required. We dig into the five-ingredient recipe—elderberry juice, raw farm honey, fresh ginger, Ceylon cinnamon, and star anise—and why thick texture should come from honey, not gums or fillers. The bees matter too: 100% of the honey in the bottle comes from the farm’s 450 hives, closing the loop on flavor, traceability, and quality.
On the business side, Russell shares how they partnered with the University of Georgia for shelf-life studies and manufacturing compliance, then graduated from 15-gallon kitchen batches to a 400-gallon tank and an automated filling line—without compromising the harvest-press-freeze rhythm that makes the juice so clean. We also talk distribution choices, from local stores to their website, Amazon, and Walmart.com, and the decision to grow thoughtfully rather than chase mass retail. The practical takeaway is empowering and simple: flip your bottle. If water leads the ingredient list, you’re buying reconstituted fruit. If juice leads, you’re getting the real strength of elderberry.
If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a friend who loves natural remedies, and leave a review telling us what your label says first. Your feedback helps more people find farm-first, juice-forward elderberry that actually delivers.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
His name's Russell Carter, andhe's from the Heartland
Elderberry Farms.
And you know, this is a guy whoactually I'm interested in
talking to because as many ofyou know, I'm a formulator and
(00:24):
you know I work with naturalingredients and finding good
sources, especially today inthis world where so much comes
from China and and othercountries where they claim
things and you have no idea whatyou're getting.
Um, to work with the farmers, towork with the the people that uh
are actually involved in theprocess is really important.
(00:47):
So uh Russell, without furtherado, welcome to the show.
How are you doing today?
Joe, I'm doing well.
Appreciate you having us on.
Fantastic.
So, you know, I always like tostart off an interview with sort
of the Genesis stories.
So why don't you tell us, youknow, elderberries, it's a thing
that many of us natural guysknow about.
Yeah.
Um, it's a fairly common enoughterm, but you know, tell us
(01:10):
about how you got involved inelderberries.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So uh it actually started withuh uh our business started with
honey bees, actually.
Uh we we actually run twoseparate businesses.
Uh we we have a commercialbeekeeping operation as well as
the elderberry farm.
Nice.
Uh, but uh so we we started withbees about 10 years ago and kind
(01:33):
of grew that.
We're currently running about450 hives.
Nice.
And and 100% of the raw honeythat we produce on our own farm
goes into our elderberry syrup.
So it's a great great innervertically uh vertically
integrated company.
So but we've been my family andI, even growing up uh as a kid,
(01:55):
we were taking elderberries, butwe were my mom and parents, my
mom and dad were always like,let's go out and forage for
them, right?
So as you I'm sure are aware,and most people are aware,
elderberries grow wild.
If you can find if you can finda nice patch of them away from
any agricultural stuff likethat, um it's kind of like uh
you know, a free-for-all, it'skind of a secret.
(02:16):
You don't want to tell anybodythat's there, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Right, right, exactly.
But you can just pick them offthe tree and eat them, really,
right?
Oh, we do it all the time.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, they had to be processed.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
So that is a that is a that is the consensus that
gets thrown around a lot.
Okay.
Okay, so um I will I will saythis the studies kind of show
the European variety ofelderberry uh has a high higher
level of toxicity, the seeds do,than the American elderberries.
Okay, we all and I and listen,I'm I'm the farmer guy, I'm not
(02:50):
the science guy, I'm not thejust tell you what we do.
We eat we eat fresh elderberrieswhen they're ripe, as we're
picking them every single everysingle day for about six weeks.
So and I'm still kicking, so Ihey, you know what?
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Let's let the proof be in the pudding.
I exactly I'm all about uh theexperience as well as the
science.
So this is great.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
So yeah, so as a kid, we used to forage for
elderberries, and my mom wouldalways make elderberry jams,
elderberry jellies, elderberrysyrups for the cold and flu
season, using using freshberries, right?
So she would press, she wouldpress the juice and we'd make
it.
Well, as my wife and I gotmarried and started having kids,
we didn't really necessarilyhave the time to go do that,
(03:34):
right?
So what we what we started whatwe started doing was we just
bought what was commerciallyavailable, the sambacalls, the
Mary Ruth's, the all the all thebrands out there that you've
heard of.
Sure.
And it's it is so noticeablydifferent of a product um than
what you're than what you uhwhat you'll get if you make it
(03:55):
yourself with a fresh berry.
So we started looking at thatand we're like, why like what
are the what are the differenceshere?
And time and time again, thefirst thing that we saw when we
were looking at the ingredientsingredient labels on all of
these packages, the firstingredient is water.
Okay, so that was the firstthing.
(04:16):
So you're already starting witha diluted product, right?
And then and then we startedreally getting in getting down
the rabbit hole of it all, andreally came to find out about
95%, 90 to 95 percent of everycommercially available
elderberry syrup on the marketis first ingredient, is water.
Okay, yeah, so it's and and allof the listeners, if they're got
(04:39):
elderberry in their coverage, gojust flip it over and look for
yourself.
And I would guarantee it's gonnabe water.
So we were like, Well, why isthat?
Like, what is the reason for thewater?
Because it just sounds sounds tous like you're immediately
deliberately have lots of waterin them all by themselves,
right?
Exactly, and why mess with whatGod gave us?
Let's just keep it pure andsimple and whatever.
Well, the answer, the answer isthat elderberry farming is very,
(05:03):
very niche in the United States.
Okay, so there are very few whatwhat I would consider commercial
elderberry farmers in the UnitedStates, but okay, so if you look
at there are if you look at theelderberry syrup market, there
are hundreds of of small tomedium to large uh manufacturers
of elderberry syrup, everybodyfrom you know somebody local
(05:25):
that just makes it in theirkitchen up to up to the samba
calls of the world, right?
So, where are all these peoplegetting their elderberries if
nobody's growing it, right?
So so the answer was they'reimporting them, right?
So you are getting exactly whatyou said at the beginning of the
podcast, Joe.
You're getting an importeddehydrated berry that has been
(05:49):
sitting on the shelf for whoknows how long, yeah, and and
then they're bringing it overand they're producing it with a
dehydrated berry.
And that there's a coupleproblems with that that we saw,
certainly.
One, there's no standard for howmuch water to put into the
product to reconstitute it.
So a lot of times when we and wehave tried, we have tried dozens
(06:11):
of commercial elderberry syrupson the market.
A lot of times we were findingit's just super watery.
Like, what like what is going onhere?
So it just seemed very dilutedto us.
The second problem with that isthe minute you dehydrate a
berry, it loses up to 30% of thenutritional value of the berry.
unknown (06:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
So cooking it, it it you are cooking it really.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yeah, exactly right.
That's exactly right.
So it's it's it really was aninferior product.
So that kind of brings us to theelderberry.
We already had the honey, right?
We had plenty of honey.
So we're like, we said, I toldmy wife, I said, I'm just gonna
make a small planting ofelderberries.
We put 50 plants in the groundsix years ago, and it was just
(06:55):
for us, my immediate family, andfriends that asked for it.
We would provide them withelderberry syrup.
And when we started making thatand kind of passing it out to
family and friends, we couldn'tmake it fast enough.
It was like, it was like, man,this is the product I remember
as a kid.
This is what we this is the thisis the pure product that that
(07:16):
everybody was looking for, butit just was not really
commercially available.
So since that year, we have beenputting in the ground two to
three thousand elderberry plantsevery year.
And we have expanded into asecond farm, and we're just I
just tilled up three acres of ofground that's gonna be planted
next year.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
So that is so exciting.
Now, I just as a point ofreference, uh I'm down here in
Southern California.
Sure.
We have a plant that I've alwayscalled Mexican elder, and it's
it's a kind of a scrubby tree, atall bush.
Not it, it it um it makes aberry, it it goes dormant early,
(07:57):
like they're already starting togo dormant.
They're one of the first thingsto get their leaves back on,
usually in January.
Um, they'll put a they'll put aberry up, but it's really small.
Um and usually by the time theyget ripe, they're already
starting to dry up.
Um, is that a viable elderberryor is that something that you
(08:19):
wouldn't mess with?
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Yeah, I know elderberry, I've never that is
not a plant that I am familiarwith.
Got it.
Okay, so that is not the typicallifestyle or life cycle, I'm
sorry, of of the elderberryplant that we grow.
We actually grow six varietiesof elderberry.
Okay.
Um, and we we did a test plantof about 12 varieties and and
stuck with the six that growbetter the best around here.
(08:43):
What's in Southern California,it that very well could be an
elderberry, but I will also tellyou there are several look-alike
plants.
Um, so you got to be a littlecareful about that because there
are some that look very muchlike elderberry, but they're
actually poisonous.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
So got it.
And I haven't ever eaten these.
I just it's like they grow wild,they seem to be pretty hardy.
I'm like, well, it'd be neat ifI could harvest these, but right
now I just let them be.
I'm learning more than you know,I don't just naturally go, oh, I
think this is a thing.
So what is the like you're onthe east coast?
Where exactly are you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
So we're actually in northern Indiana.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Oh, oh you're you're Midwest.
Okay.
Midwest, yep.
All right, and so you get uh youget snow in the winter, you get
oh yeah, a lot of rain in thesummer, so you're you're you
have a much different climatethan we get.
What is the plant like?
What is it is what kind of aplant is it?
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
So, yeah, different from the European uh variety,
actually, the European variety,which is what everybody is
making their product with, it'sit is more of a tree.
It has a central trunk and it'sit's more of a short shrubby
tree.
The American varieties that wegrow grow off of a primacane
system, and they're very similarto like a black berry.
(10:01):
Oh they send up new shoots everyyear.
Okay, and and then you get theseclusters of berries.
The berries themselves are aboutthe size of a pea, so they are
very, very small, but they growin they grow in large clusters.
Uh, and then um, and then once,yeah, once we harvest it, the
plants die back and they godormant in the in the winter.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
They're smooth, they don't have any thorns or
anything, so they're not.
That's correct.
That's correct.
That way, all right.
Interesting.
I'll do more research on that.
Yep.
They require a lot of water, orhow how do you take care of
them?
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
So, yeah, you mentioned about the rain
earlier.
Yeah, uh, yes, we generally geta lot of rain.
Uh northern Indiana right now isactually which you're probably
like, oh, that's every year forus.
We're actually in an exceptionaldrought right now, right?
Right, exactly.
That is not normal for Indianato be in an exceptional drought.
(10:56):
So it's been a very, very dry.
So we have irrigation running toall of our plants.
SPEAKER_00 (11:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
Uh, and in periods of dry drought like this, we're
always watering.
So yeah, they they are a plant.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
So they're like a regular berry in that sense.
Most berries want a lot ofwater, anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Yeah, exactly.
And where you're gonna find theelderberries, if they're growing
wild, primarily you'll find themin creek beds, along ditches,
stuff like that.
Is it's because they really,really do like water.
You almost can't water themenough.
I mean, they can live instanding water for a period of
time and be totally fine.
So, yeah, they they really theyreally need the water.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Interesting.
And how do you harvest them?
Are you just harvest them all byhand?
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
It's a hundred percent by hand.
So, yeah, it's about it's abouta six-week period.
Our different varieties ripen atdifferent times.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
That makes it nice, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
It does.
Um, but it's still about sixweeks, all hands on deck.
We're out there picking them.
So, our process is we we harvestin the morning, so we're picking
them in the morning.
Uh, in the afternoon, rightafter lunch, we switch to
destemming.
So we run them through adestemming machine, they are
pressed that afternoon, and thejuice that we have is frozen by
(12:08):
night.
Nice.
So it is a very, very quickturnaround time.
That's the other thing aboutelderberry is that they are such
a fragile berry.
They they really need very quickprocessing, um, and they they
will go bad real fast on you.
If we would even wait 24 hoursand just kind of leave them out,
they would all it would be ahuge degradation of the quality
(12:31):
of berry already.
So it's a very quick process.
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Now, freezing is really supposed to be one of the
very best ways they say buyingfrozen berries oftentimes is
even more healthy than buyingfresh berries because they're
generally picked ripe and theygotta be like you said, they
gotta be frozen quick or they gobad.
So you're getting peak of seasonharvest with a frozen berry
(12:56):
where you don't have to do thatearly picking and let them ripen
in the box or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Yep, exactly.
Yep.
So we the only thing we have towatch out for is the birds.
The birds love the elderberries,and so we're out there uh before
they do to kind of get thequality.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
But uh yeah, so that's a good sign, though.
If that if the animals like athing, it's probably pretty good
for you, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Oh my goodness, yeah.
We have every morning we havedeer and everything else walking
through our elderberry fieldsmunching on them.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
So in in my products, um, I found the same
thing that you did, you know,all the syrups are just full of
water.
Yeah, and I I find myself usingwhat they call a concentrate,
and they'll call it, you know,four to one, five to one, ten to
one.
And it's more of a thickproduct, not quite a paste, but
certainly not like you just youdon't just pour it out, it comes
(13:47):
out as a more thick product.
Is that yeah?
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
So the only I know exactly what you're saying.
So even even to get thatconcentrate, uh, you have to put
it through a pretty extensiveprocess, a heating process to
get that, remove that water outof there.
We really want to stick steerclear of that personally.
Uh so what we do with ourproduct, it's only five
ingredients.
Okay, so our elderberry surfacefive ingredients.
(14:11):
It's the bottle is north of 80%pure elderberry juice.
We also add in our raw honeyfrom our farm, freshly pressed
ginger, cylon cinnamon, and staranise.
Those are the only fiveingredients.
We don't add any water, sugar,preservatives, and nothing.
Okay, so uh it's about as aboutas pure of an elderberry syrup
(14:32):
as you can.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
So saying that actually acts as a preservative,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
Yeah, to some extent it does.
The high sugar content in thesugar or in the honey definitely
does help with a little bitpreserving it.
So the only thickener that wehave in our elderberry syrup is
the raw honey.
Okay, okay, so um, and in theraw honey, it's about 15% of the
bottle.
So um that is the onlythickener.
(14:56):
So if you're if you're comparingit to like um a sambacall or
something like that that hasthickeners, raw sugar, all this
other stuff with it, it's it'swords you can't pronounce, yeah.
It it and that's really been aneducational thing for us because
a lot of folks will say the samething to us, like, oh, it's not
as thick as my samba call orsome of these other varieties.
(15:17):
And it's just more of aneducation thing.
Well, look at the back of theyou know, look at the
ingredients.
That right there, that's athickener, you know, stuff like
that.
So so it's not even it's abetter it thick thick does not
translate to better necessarily.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Agreed, agreed.
So well, that's that's that'samazing.
So um you you start out withbees, and I I would love to have
another conversation with youjust about the bees, because
sure that that's certainly asimportant of a of an element, a
totally different conversation,but um with the honey.
(15:54):
So are are the bees pollinatingyour elderberries as well?
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
Yeah, they elderberries are pretty
self-pollinating as long as youhave a um as long as you have a
uh cross-pollinator plant.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
So we and we alternate rows with
cross-pollinators with eachother, but the bees do work
blueberries where they have uhthey grow one kind and then they
have so many plants they put adifferent one in there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Exactly right, exactly.
So elderberries the bees do workthe elderberry flower, um, but
bees are about what theypollinate.
They they they want to go afterthe best nectar and the best
pollen sources that they can,right?
They're trying to get absolutelyyeah, they're trying to get
ready for winter and bulk up.
So yeah, um, elder flower doesnot have virtual, it has
(16:44):
virtually no nectar quality toit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
It does have so interested in those trees.
SPEAKER_01 (16:49):
They do have that it does have pollen, so the elder
flowers do have pollen that thebees work.
Um, but uh but yeah, I'venoticed the same.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
I don't generally see a lot of bees.
We have wild bees around here,yeah.
And I I look at the plants thatthe bees tend to hang out on,
and they like the fruit trees,they like the plum trees and the
peach trees, but I generallydon't see them swarming around
the elders, yeah.
Or whatever it is I have.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
And that and it very well could be an elderberry
plant.
Yeah, it it just doesn't produceany nectar to speak of.
It's it's a level.
Uh you couldn't you couldn't geta honey crop uh uh off of
elderberry plants.
SPEAKER_00 (17:29):
I've never heard of elderberry honey anyway, so it
makes sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
And that's probably why.
But um, so yeah, they work thema little bit, but it's it's just
kind of sporadic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
So when you decided to do this, like you went from
growing bees to gee, it'd benice to have this elderberry
syrup like we used to, to let'splant some elderberries.
That's a big leap from that toI've got a commercial farm and
(18:01):
we're making a product.
So why don't you tell us abouthow you went from one to the
next?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I I was actually um while Iwas running the bee business and
growing that, I was actuallyworking full-time in a corporate
position.
Imagine, yeah.
So I I when the bee business gotto a level where um it was just
no longer like I can't do bothmentality.
Uh, I ended up leaving thatcorporate position and just
(18:28):
pursuing the bee business.
And I did that for about fouryears, just strictly on the bee
business.
And then when we started theelderberry planting and and that
just grew so rapidly, it waslike the the biggest light bulb
moment ever that there is such amarket for this, and and it's a
market that it was like people,you know, folks want elderberry
(18:51):
syrup, yeah, and they're buyingelderberry syrup at really a
record pace.
I mean, especially since uh youknow, I hate to bring it up, but
COVID, there was a lot of folkswere looking for alternative
ways to stay healthy.
They don't necessarily want togo and you know do vaccines and
everything else, they're lookingfor natural remedies, sure.
So that really gave elderberrysyrup a boost, and it also gave
(19:13):
a lot of studies.
Um, a lot of studies came outduring COVID about elderberry
syrup and the and the benefitsof it.
So it was kind of just thisepitome, uh, this moment of um
this epiphany of like, man, ifwe like this elderberry so much,
and we just kept growing.
So, like I said, that the secondyear we only had 50 plants in
(19:34):
the ground the first year, andthe second the second year we
did 3,000 plants.
Wow, and like I said, we'redoing thousands of plants every
year, and we almost cannot keepup with the demand because once
people are starting to realizelike there is a different level
of quality of elderberry syrups,it's it's not even a selling
(19:55):
thing, it's just an educationthing.
It's like if you can understandthat, like what the differences
are, it's it speaks for itself.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
So most of your customers are just individuals
that are just taking it forpersonal use, or do you have
people like me that areformulators, make products with
them?
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
I yeah, I don't have any formulators.
We uh it's mostly just families,right?
So we yeah, we we sell it uh umwe're on Amazon, Walmart.
Uh we have uh stores locally inIndiana, northern Indiana,
several stores we sell it to.
Our own website um is a greatresource, and it can also be
purchased on there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Um, but so how'd you get into Walmart?
Now that's a that's a marketthat you don't just walk into.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
So it's it's actually on Walmart.com.
So a little bit easy, it leavesmuch easier to break into
Walmart.com and start selling onthere than actually in stores.
But um, so as of right now, itwe wouldn't even be able to keep
up with Walmart, anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Generally, it's not a little farm product, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
And we would have we'd have to have hundreds of
acres at that point.
So maybe we'll get there oneday, but yeah, we're we are
super focused on maintaining thequality of this product, and
that's that that will never goaway.
I don't care if we have 500acres uh of elderberries, the
quality is gonna be the same asit was when we made it for our
(21:14):
own family, and that's gonnastay the same.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
So so now there's two elements, you know.
Uh there's the farming and theharvesting of the food product,
yeah, and preserving it, andthen there's manufacturing big
deal, a food product.
That's an entirely separatebusiness with an entirely
separate set of rules andequipment and expertise.
(21:38):
So now that's a whole nothertransition.
So, how'd you get from one tothe other there?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
Yeah, exactly.
That was a big learning curvefor us for sure.
So to grow from to go from asmall-scale grower when I'm
talking 50 plants to to over25,000 plants is what I think we
have in the ground right now.
That is a big leap, and itdoesn't happen overnight.
So we actually partnered withthe University of Georgia.
Oh, nice and in the and theirdepartment, and we did certified
(22:08):
lab testing, shelf lifestability studies, um, and then
just worked with them onmanufacturing compliance, uh,
food products and things likethat.
So they what a blessing.
Really, they helped guide usthrough the entire process of
making sure that our product isis shelf stable as long as it
needs to be, and that we'remanufacturing it to the
standards that we need to.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Oh, that's amazing.
So, how did they approach you?
Did you reach out?
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
We we went to them.
Yeah, they okay.
The University of Georgiaactually has a um a department
that are they are very familiarwith elderberry specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
So they yeah, they they've got a couple projects
working uh on the research sideuh of elderberries, kind of just
scratching the surface on onwhat elderberry can do and what
what the benefits to the bodyand stuff like that.
But then they also have uh inthat same department, they also
kind of teach you um how topreserve it, just different
(23:02):
things like that, and how to howto how to manufacture.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
That is fantastic.
So, your manufacturing facility,I assume you started out in your
kitchen and uh like so many ofus do, and then how did it go
from there?
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
100%.
Yeah, you nailed it.
So we were making our first yearbatches just straight in our
kitchen, right?
Uh in a in a in a 15-gallonstainless steel tank, actually.
Gotcha.
So yeah, from that, and now wehave a 400-gallon tank that
we're running out of now.
It's still it we still do ithere on the farm.
It's just in a it's just in abuilding that we had built for
(23:38):
specifically for manufacturing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
So I love it.
So it's it's grown quite a bit.
Mostly family, or do you are youhiring outside people now?
How's your business structure?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Do during the harvest season, it is it is we
need as many, as much help as wecan possibly get.
Uh, so yeah, we definitely hireduring that six-week window.
The rest of the season, justmanufacturing and stuff like
that, it actually is almost allfamily.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Nice.
I love that.
So with with things like, youknow, as again, I'm a small
little cottage thing too.
It's just me and my wife rightnow.
And uh we we've grown and shrunkas as things have needed to, but
I I've been battling my ownhealth issues right now.
So I'm we shrunk back downagain.
It's just me and her makingstuff.
But the point is, is there'slevels of you know, technology
(24:28):
and equipment and expense thatyou can do.
You can literally hand pourbottles and then you can have a
whole line that runs thousandsof bottles an hour, um, and
everything in between.
So uh what's been yourprogression there?
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Yeah, 100%.
So you're you nailed it.
So that 15-gallon tank that wehad initially, it was all it was
all hand poured, right?
So every every bottle done that,I know it, yeah.
So it's like, okay, this isgonna take forever.
So and it was fine for the firstyear or so, but then you know,
when you're sitting down, like Ineed I need 500 bottles here,
(25:03):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
You get carpal tunnel going on pretty quick
after a while.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
It gets very, very tedious.
So, yeah, it just systematicallywe said, okay, what's next?
What once where's our currentbottleneck?
Yeah, let's go get that piece ofequipment.
Uh, so from from the from thelarger tank sizes that we've
had, and we have grown as we'veneeded to on that.
We now have a full uh fillingline.
(25:28):
Nice, it's all automated.
So the bottles all get filled.
There's no, yeah, is the leastamount of hands that touch these
bottles, the better for usbecause it just speeds up
manufacturing.
But um probably has lessmistakes too.
Yeah, no doubt about it.
So, yeah, it's it's it's runningpretty well, which is why we can
really keep it in-house and justkeep it with the family at this
(25:48):
point.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
I love that.
And have you run into like I Iknow that during COVID, I ran
into a lot of supply chainissues, especially with things
like containers and seals andthings like that.
Do you run into any of thoseproblems?
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
Not really with not really with the containers.
Okay.
So yeah, we we we we puteverything in glass bottles, and
we always have about fivepallets on hand at one time.
We don't really like to go belowthat just in case we do run into
issues.
But uh there was there werelonger lead times, but it was
all we were always able to getget the bottles when we needed
(26:22):
them.
But then the other thing is weproduce all the elderberry
juice, we produce all the honey.
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
All right, you got most of the supply chain right
in your own back pocket.
SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
And the funny thing is the folks that are making it
with the imported drieddehydration, they were
scrambling to try to find itbecause it's like everybody
wanted you know to makeelderberry syrup, yeah.
Uh, and that was the only waythey knew how to do it was these
dehydrated berries.
So, luckily for us, we uh asgrowers, uh, we kind of just had
a steady supply coming in.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Do you ever get approached by people that want
to make a similar product to buyyour raw materials?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
I have not, uh, and I I really wouldn't even have
anything to sell up.
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
Oh, I wouldn't imagine you would.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
I just yeah, no, it is yeah, we we are like this
year, for example, we were like,okay, come on, berries, you
gotta get right here because weneeded juice.
We needed to restock thatfreezer uh because we were
running pretty low on juice atthat point.
So um, yeah, that the ourbusiness really has grown, you
(27:23):
know, thankfully, so well in thelast couple of years, it's just
it's our biggest challenge rightnow is keeping up with the
demand and keeping enoughelderberry juice on hand to to
satisfy the orders.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Wow, what a beautiful story.
I I I love to hear uh successstories like this.
You're living the dream.
I mean, really, you you uh andand your family.
Um, how many kids you got?
I mean, how many people areinvolved in the operation here?
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Yeah, I my wife and I have two kids, but they're
both they're both too young toactually do any work.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
So it's just you and the wife mostly.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Well, yeah, it's my it's me and my wife.
Uh, I have my mom, I have mycouple sisters, okay, and I have
some bro, a brother-in-law.
So all right.
Uh, yeah, we we're stayingpretty busy with keeping it in
the family, and we haven't Ilove it.
We're we we still talk to eachother, so that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
I was gonna say, you know, those kind of things
either bring you closer togetheror send send somebody packing.
So that's exactly it's workingout this way.
Well, um, is there any kind of acentral message that you know
you've you've brought a lot tothe table, and I'm I can't tell
you how impressed I am thatthere are actually people out
there committed to quality theway that you guys are.
(28:34):
Um, like I said, as aformulator, I grow some of the
ingredients and I always say,look, I know what I grew and I
know how I grew it.
And I can tell you the qualityof that.
But when I buy from anotherplace, unless I've been to their
farm and get to know the people,which I do best as I can.
Oh, sure.
You can only do what you can do.
And um, I always say outside ofthat, I do my best to source the
(28:57):
best ingredients, but um reallyit's it's so refreshing to to
meet somebody who has that sameuh sense of of the importance of
all this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I certainly appreciatethat.
I take that as a hugecompliment.
But yeah, like I said, westarted this off as our family
thing, just to supply ourfamily, and and we are not
deviating no matter how big weever get from that same level of
quality.
The I think the last thing Iwould just leave with with your
listeners is if you'reinterested about elderberry
syrup, if that's you know, I'msure you probably most people
(29:29):
have heard of it, whetherthey've taken it or not.
But if you've heard ofelderberry syrup, um, we really
made our website and designed itpurposefully to be an
educational one.
Uh, so the website is justheartland elderberryfarms.com.
Um, and it's really we do apretty we try to do a really
good job of uh doing somecomparisons between dried
(29:50):
berries and fresh berries andthe and the potency and just
different things like that.
So it's not just trying to sellanything, it's really more for
an educational.
But the other the other thing IWould say is if you just I
challenge you to look at yourown label.
Like if you take elderberrysyrup, just flip that label
around.
And if that first ingredient iswater, then you know right then
(30:12):
and there it's made with adehydrated berry that's
imported.
So um, and and I will just tellyou if that's the case, there
are better options out there.
Elderberry syrup, it's not thecheapest thing in the world.
Uh, and I and while we really dostrive to price it uh very
competitively, even though wemake it with pure juice, um, you
know, if you're gonna buy it,you know, maybe just most people
(30:35):
want the best quality they canget.
It's it's more potent.
We've had it third-party testedfor potency, uh, and it really
it's through the roof in termsof just using water and
dehydrated berry.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
Well, I can tell you this.
I'm going to uh locate a sourceand I'm gonna purchase some and
I'm gonna make a batch of uh Imake a um respiratory support
elixir.
Yes, and elderberry is one ofthe key components of it.
Um, and I'm gonna make a batchwith it and try it out for
myself.
So um I'm you know we do smallbatch things, so it's it's um
(31:10):
I'm I'm right there with you.
I I I'll let you know, but I Isuspect I'm gonna really um
notice a difference.
Um, Russell, it's been anabsolute pleasure to have this
conversation.
I would love to come back andtalk about your bees another
time.
Um great.
But uh just thank you for beinga part of our of our community
(31:30):
here.
And um I just that's it.
I'm really grateful.
Yeah, Joe, I appreciate youhaving me.
I appreciate the conversation.
Fantastic.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumba, and Iwant to thank our listeners for
making this all possible, and wewill see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
His name's Russell Carter, andhe's from the Heartland
Elderberry Farms.
And you know, this is a guy whoactually I'm interested in
talking to because as many ofyou know, I'm a formulator and
(00:24):
you know I work with naturalingredients and finding good
sources, especially today inthis world where so much comes
from China and and othercountries where they claim
things and you have no idea whatyou're getting.
Um, to work with the farmers, towork with the the people that uh
are actually involved in theprocess is really important.
(00:47):
So uh Russell, without furtherado, welcome to the show.
How are you doing today?
Joe, I'm doing well.
Appreciate you having us on.
Fantastic.
So, you know, I always like tostart off an interview with sort
of the Genesis stories.
So why don't you tell us, youknow, elderberries, it's a thing
that many of us natural guysknow about.
Yeah.
Um, it's a fairly common enoughterm, but you know, tell us
(01:10):
about how you got involved inelderberries.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So uh it actually started withuh uh our business started with
honey bees, actually.
Uh we we actually run twoseparate businesses.
Uh we we have a commercialbeekeeping operation as well as
the elderberry farm.
Nice.
Uh, but uh so we we started withbees about 10 years ago and kind
(01:33):
of grew that.
We're currently running about450 hives.
Nice.
And and 100% of the raw honeythat we produce on our own farm
goes into our elderberry syrup.
So it's a great great innervertically uh vertically
integrated company.
So but we've been my family andI, even growing up uh as a kid,
(01:55):
we were taking elderberries, butwe were my mom and parents, my
mom and dad were always like,let's go out and forage for
them, right?
So as you I'm sure are aware,and most people are aware,
elderberries grow wild.
If you can find if you can finda nice patch of them away from
any agricultural stuff likethat, um it's kind of like uh
you know, a free-for-all, it'skind of a secret.
(02:16):
You don't want to tell anybodythat's there, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
Right, right, exactly.
But you can just pick them offthe tree and eat them, really,
right?
Oh, we do it all the time.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Okay, they had to be processed.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
So that is a that is a that is the consensus that
gets thrown around a lot.
Okay.
Okay, so um I will I will saythis the studies kind of show
the European variety ofelderberry uh has a high higher
level of toxicity, the seeds do,than the American elderberries.
Okay, we all and I and listen,I'm I'm the farmer guy, I'm not
(02:50):
the science guy, I'm not thejust tell you what we do.
We eat we eat fresh elderberrieswhen they're ripe, as we're
picking them every single everysingle day for about six weeks.
So and I'm still kicking, so Ihey, you know what?
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Let's let the proof be in the pudding.
I exactly I'm all about uh theexperience as well as the
science.
So this is great.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
So yeah, so as a kid, we used to forage for
elderberries, and my mom wouldalways make elderberry jams,
elderberry jellies, elderberrysyrups for the cold and flu
season, using using freshberries, right?
So she would press, she wouldpress the juice and we'd make
it.
Well, as my wife and I gotmarried and started having kids,
we didn't really necessarilyhave the time to go do that,
(03:34):
right?
So what we what we started whatwe started doing was we just
bought what was commerciallyavailable, the sambacalls, the
Mary Ruth's, the all the all thebrands out there that you've
heard of.
Sure.
And it's it is so noticeablydifferent of a product um than
what you're than what you uhwhat you'll get if you make it
(03:55):
yourself with a fresh berry.
So we started looking at thatand we're like, why like what
are the what are the differenceshere?
And time and time again, thefirst thing that we saw when we
were looking at the ingredientsingredient labels on all of
these packages, the firstingredient is water.
Okay, so that was the firstthing.
(04:16):
So you're already starting witha diluted product, right?
And then and then we startedreally getting in getting down
the rabbit hole of it all, andreally came to find out about
95%, 90 to 95 percent of everycommercially available
elderberry syrup on the marketis first ingredient, is water.
Okay, yeah, so it's and and allof the listeners, if they're got
(04:39):
elderberry in their coverage, gojust flip it over and look for
yourself.
And I would guarantee it's gonnabe water.
So we were like, Well, why isthat?
Like, what is the reason for thewater?
Because it just sounds sounds tous like you're immediately
deliberately have lots of waterin them all by themselves,
right?
Exactly, and why mess with whatGod gave us?
Let's just keep it pure andsimple and whatever.
Well, the answer, the answer isthat elderberry farming is very,
(05:03):
very niche in the United States.
Okay, so there are very few whatwhat I would consider commercial
elderberry farmers in the UnitedStates, but okay, so if you look
at there are if you look at theelderberry syrup market, there
are hundreds of of small tomedium to large uh manufacturers
of elderberry syrup, everybodyfrom you know somebody local
(05:25):
that just makes it in theirkitchen up to up to the samba
calls of the world, right?
So, where are all these peoplegetting their elderberries if
nobody's growing it, right?
So so the answer was they'reimporting them, right?
So you are getting exactly whatyou said at the beginning of the
podcast, Joe.
You're getting an importeddehydrated berry that has been
(05:49):
sitting on the shelf for whoknows how long, yeah, and and
then they're bringing it overand they're producing it with a
dehydrated berry.
And that there's a coupleproblems with that that we saw,
certainly.
One, there's no standard for howmuch water to put into the
product to reconstitute it.
So a lot of times when we and wehave tried, we have tried dozens
(06:11):
of commercial elderberry syrupson the market.
A lot of times we were findingit's just super watery.
Like, what like what is going onhere?
So it just seemed very dilutedto us.
The second problem with that isthe minute you dehydrate a
berry, it loses up to 30% of thenutritional value of the berry.
unknown (06:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
So cooking it, it it you are cooking it really.
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Yeah, exactly right.
That's exactly right.
So it's it's it really was aninferior product.
So that kind of brings us to theelderberry.
We already had the honey, right?
We had plenty of honey.
So we're like, we said, I toldmy wife, I said, I'm just gonna
make a small planting ofelderberries.
We put 50 plants in the groundsix years ago, and it was just
(06:55):
for us, my immediate family, andfriends that asked for it.
We would provide them withelderberry syrup.
And when we started making thatand kind of passing it out to
family and friends, we couldn'tmake it fast enough.
It was like, it was like, man,this is the product I remember
as a kid.
This is what we this is the thisis the pure product that that
(07:16):
everybody was looking for, butit just was not really
commercially available.
So since that year, we have beenputting in the ground two to
three thousand elderberry plantsevery year.
And we have expanded into asecond farm, and we're just I
just tilled up three acres of ofground that's gonna be planted
next year.
SPEAKER_00 (07:35):
So that is so exciting.
Now, I just as a point ofreference, uh I'm down here in
Southern California.
Sure.
We have a plant that I've alwayscalled Mexican elder, and it's
it's a kind of a scrubby tree, atall bush.
Not it, it it um it makes aberry, it it goes dormant early,
(07:57):
like they're already starting togo dormant.
They're one of the first thingsto get their leaves back on,
usually in January.
Um, they'll put a they'll put aberry up, but it's really small.
Um and usually by the time theyget ripe, they're already
starting to dry up.
Um, is that a viable elderberryor is that something that you
(08:19):
wouldn't mess with?
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
Yeah, I know elderberry, I've never that is
not a plant that I am familiarwith.
Got it.
Okay, so that is not the typicallifestyle or life cycle, I'm
sorry, of of the elderberryplant that we grow.
We actually grow six varietiesof elderberry.
Okay.
Um, and we we did a test plantof about 12 varieties and and
stuck with the six that growbetter the best around here.
(08:43):
What's in Southern California,it that very well could be an
elderberry, but I will also tellyou there are several look-alike
plants.
Um, so you got to be a littlecareful about that because there
are some that look very muchlike elderberry, but they're
actually poisonous.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
So got it.
And I haven't ever eaten these.
I just it's like they grow wild,they seem to be pretty hardy.
I'm like, well, it'd be neat ifI could harvest these, but right
now I just let them be.
I'm learning more than you know,I don't just naturally go, oh, I
think this is a thing.
So what is the like you're onthe east coast?
Where exactly are you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
So we're actually in northern Indiana.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Oh, oh you're you're Midwest.
Okay.
Midwest, yep.
All right, and so you get uh youget snow in the winter, you get
oh yeah, a lot of rain in thesummer, so you're you're you
have a much different climatethan we get.
What is the plant like?
What is it is what kind of aplant is it?
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
So, yeah, different from the European uh variety,
actually, the European variety,which is what everybody is
making their product with, it'sit is more of a tree.
It has a central trunk and it'sit's more of a short shrubby
tree.
The American varieties that wegrow grow off of a primacane
system, and they're very similarto like a black berry.
(10:01):
Oh they send up new shoots everyyear.
Okay, and and then you get theseclusters of berries.
The berries themselves are aboutthe size of a pea, so they are
very, very small, but they growin they grow in large clusters.
Uh, and then um, and then once,yeah, once we harvest it, the
plants die back and they godormant in the in the winter.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
They're smooth, they don't have any thorns or
anything, so they're not.
That's correct.
That's correct.
That way, all right.
Interesting.
I'll do more research on that.
Yep.
They require a lot of water, orhow how do you take care of
them?
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
So, yeah, you mentioned about the rain
earlier.
Yeah, uh, yes, we generally geta lot of rain.
Uh northern Indiana right now isactually which you're probably
like, oh, that's every year forus.
We're actually in an exceptionaldrought right now, right?
Right, exactly.
That is not normal for Indianato be in an exceptional drought.
(10:56):
So it's been a very, very dry.
So we have irrigation running toall of our plants.
SPEAKER_00 (11:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
Uh, and in periods of dry drought like this, we're
always watering.
So yeah, they they are a plant.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
So they're like a regular berry in that sense.
Most berries want a lot ofwater, anyways.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
Yeah, exactly.
And where you're gonna find theelderberries, if they're growing
wild, primarily you'll find themin creek beds, along ditches,
stuff like that.
Is it's because they really,really do like water.
You almost can't water themenough.
I mean, they can live instanding water for a period of
time and be totally fine.
So, yeah, they they really theyreally need the water.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Interesting.
And how do you harvest them?
Are you just harvest them all byhand?
SPEAKER_01 (11:37):
It's a hundred percent by hand.
So, yeah, it's about it's abouta six-week period.
Our different varieties ripen atdifferent times.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
That makes it nice, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
It does.
Um, but it's still about sixweeks, all hands on deck.
We're out there picking them.
So, our process is we we harvestin the morning, so we're picking
them in the morning.
Uh, in the afternoon, rightafter lunch, we switch to
destemming.
So we run them through adestemming machine, they are
pressed that afternoon, and thejuice that we have is frozen by
(12:08):
night.
Nice.
So it is a very, very quickturnaround time.
That's the other thing aboutelderberry is that they are such
a fragile berry.
They they really need very quickprocessing, um, and they they
will go bad real fast on you.
If we would even wait 24 hoursand just kind of leave them out,
they would all it would be ahuge degradation of the quality
(12:31):
of berry already.
So it's a very quick process.
SPEAKER_00 (12:34):
Now, freezing is really supposed to be one of the
very best ways they say buyingfrozen berries oftentimes is
even more healthy than buyingfresh berries because they're
generally picked ripe and theygotta be like you said, they
gotta be frozen quick or they gobad.
So you're getting peak of seasonharvest with a frozen berry
(12:56):
where you don't have to do thatearly picking and let them ripen
in the box or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Yep, exactly.
Yep.
So we the only thing we have towatch out for is the birds.
The birds love the elderberries,and so we're out there uh before
they do to kind of get thequality.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
But uh yeah, so that's a good sign, though.
If that if the animals like athing, it's probably pretty good
for you, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Oh my goodness, yeah.
We have every morning we havedeer and everything else walking
through our elderberry fieldsmunching on them.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
So in in my products, um, I found the same
thing that you did, you know,all the syrups are just full of
water.
Yeah, and I I find myself usingwhat they call a concentrate,
and they'll call it, you know,four to one, five to one, ten to
one.
And it's more of a thickproduct, not quite a paste, but
certainly not like you just youdon't just pour it out, it comes
(13:47):
out as a more thick product.
Is that yeah?
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
So the only I know exactly what you're saying.
So even even to get thatconcentrate, uh, you have to put
it through a pretty extensiveprocess, a heating process to
get that, remove that water outof there.
We really want to stick steerclear of that personally.
Uh so what we do with ourproduct, it's only five
ingredients.
Okay, so our elderberry surfacefive ingredients.
(14:11):
It's the bottle is north of 80%pure elderberry juice.
We also add in our raw honeyfrom our farm, freshly pressed
ginger, cylon cinnamon, and staranise.
Those are the only fiveingredients.
We don't add any water, sugar,preservatives, and nothing.
Okay, so uh it's about as aboutas pure of an elderberry syrup
(14:32):
as you can.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
So saying that actually acts as a preservative,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
Yeah, to some extent it does.
The high sugar content in thesugar or in the honey definitely
does help with a little bitpreserving it.
So the only thickener that wehave in our elderberry syrup is
the raw honey.
Okay, okay, so um, and in theraw honey, it's about 15% of the
bottle.
So um that is the onlythickener.
(14:56):
So if you're if you're comparingit to like um a sambacall or
something like that that hasthickeners, raw sugar, all this
other stuff with it, it's it'swords you can't pronounce, yeah.
It it and that's really been aneducational thing for us because
a lot of folks will say the samething to us, like, oh, it's not
as thick as my samba call orsome of these other varieties.
(15:17):
And it's just more of aneducation thing.
Well, look at the back of theyou know, look at the
ingredients.
That right there, that's athickener, you know, stuff like
that.
So so it's not even it's abetter it thick thick does not
translate to better necessarily.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Agreed, agreed.
So well, that's that's that'samazing.
So um you you start out withbees, and I I would love to have
another conversation with youjust about the bees, because
sure that that's certainly asimportant of a of an element, a
totally different conversation,but um with the honey.
(15:54):
So are are the bees pollinatingyour elderberries as well?
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
Yeah, they elderberries are pretty
self-pollinating as long as youhave a um as long as you have a
uh cross-pollinator plant.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
So we and we alternate rows with
cross-pollinators with eachother, but the bees do work
blueberries where they have uhthey grow one kind and then they
have so many plants they put adifferent one in there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Exactly right, exactly.
So elderberries the bees do workthe elderberry flower, um, but
bees are about what theypollinate.
They they they want to go afterthe best nectar and the best
pollen sources that they can,right?
They're trying to get absolutelyyeah, they're trying to get
ready for winter and bulk up.
So yeah, um, elder flower doesnot have virtual, it has
(16:44):
virtually no nectar quality toit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
It does have so interested in those trees.
SPEAKER_01 (16:49):
They do have that it does have pollen, so the elder
flowers do have pollen that thebees work.
Um, but uh but yeah, I'venoticed the same.
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
I don't generally see a lot of bees.
We have wild bees around here,yeah.
And I I look at the plants thatthe bees tend to hang out on,
and they like the fruit trees,they like the plum trees and the
peach trees, but I generallydon't see them swarming around
the elders, yeah.
Or whatever it is I have.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
And that and it very well could be an elderberry
plant.
Yeah, it it just doesn't produceany nectar to speak of.
It's it's a level.
Uh you couldn't you couldn't geta honey crop uh uh off of
elderberry plants.
SPEAKER_00 (17:29):
I've never heard of elderberry honey anyway, so it
makes sense, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
And that's probably why.
But um, so yeah, they work thema little bit, but it's it's just
kind of sporadic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
So when you decided to do this, like you went from
growing bees to gee, it'd benice to have this elderberry
syrup like we used to, to let'splant some elderberries.
That's a big leap from that toI've got a commercial farm and
(18:01):
we're making a product.
So why don't you tell us abouthow you went from one to the
next?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So I I was actually um while Iwas running the bee business and
growing that, I was actuallyworking full-time in a corporate
position.
Imagine, yeah.
So I I when the bee business gotto a level where um it was just
no longer like I can't do bothmentality.
Uh, I ended up leaving thatcorporate position and just
(18:28):
pursuing the bee business.
And I did that for about fouryears, just strictly on the bee
business.
And then when we started theelderberry planting and and that
just grew so rapidly, it waslike the the biggest light bulb
moment ever that there is such amarket for this, and and it's a
market that it was like people,you know, folks want elderberry
(18:51):
syrup, yeah, and they're buyingelderberry syrup at really a
record pace.
I mean, especially since uh youknow, I hate to bring it up, but
COVID, there was a lot of folkswere looking for alternative
ways to stay healthy.
They don't necessarily want togo and you know do vaccines and
everything else, they're lookingfor natural remedies, sure.
So that really gave elderberrysyrup a boost, and it also gave
(19:13):
a lot of studies.
Um, a lot of studies came outduring COVID about elderberry
syrup and the and the benefitsof it.
So it was kind of just thisepitome, uh, this moment of um
this epiphany of like, man, ifwe like this elderberry so much,
and we just kept growing.
So, like I said, that the secondyear we only had 50 plants in
(19:34):
the ground the first year, andthe second the second year we
did 3,000 plants.
Wow, and like I said, we'redoing thousands of plants every
year, and we almost cannot keepup with the demand because once
people are starting to realizelike there is a different level
of quality of elderberry syrups,it's it's not even a selling
(19:55):
thing, it's just an educationthing.
It's like if you can understandthat, like what the differences
are, it's it speaks for itself.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
So most of your customers are just individuals
that are just taking it forpersonal use, or do you have
people like me that areformulators, make products with
them?
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
I yeah, I don't have any formulators.
We uh it's mostly just families,right?
So we yeah, we we sell it uh umwe're on Amazon, Walmart.
Uh we have uh stores locally inIndiana, northern Indiana,
several stores we sell it to.
Our own website um is a greatresource, and it can also be
purchased on there.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
Um, but so how'd you get into Walmart?
Now that's a that's a marketthat you don't just walk into.
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
So it's it's actually on Walmart.com.
So a little bit easy, it leavesmuch easier to break into
Walmart.com and start selling onthere than actually in stores.
But um, so as of right now, itwe wouldn't even be able to keep
up with Walmart, anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (20:51):
Generally, it's not a little farm product, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:54):
And we would have we'd have to have hundreds of
acres at that point.
So maybe we'll get there oneday, but yeah, we're we are
super focused on maintaining thequality of this product, and
that's that that will never goaway.
I don't care if we have 500acres uh of elderberries, the
quality is gonna be the same asit was when we made it for our
(21:14):
own family, and that's gonnastay the same.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
So so now there's two elements, you know.
Uh there's the farming and theharvesting of the food product,
yeah, and preserving it, andthen there's manufacturing big
deal, a food product.
That's an entirely separatebusiness with an entirely
separate set of rules andequipment and expertise.
(21:38):
So now that's a whole nothertransition.
So, how'd you get from one tothe other there?
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
Yeah, exactly.
That was a big learning curvefor us for sure.
So to grow from to go from asmall-scale grower when I'm
talking 50 plants to to over25,000 plants is what I think we
have in the ground right now.
That is a big leap, and itdoesn't happen overnight.
So we actually partnered withthe University of Georgia.
Oh, nice and in the and theirdepartment, and we did certified
(22:08):
lab testing, shelf lifestability studies, um, and then
just worked with them onmanufacturing compliance, uh,
food products and things likethat.
So they what a blessing.
Really, they helped guide usthrough the entire process of
making sure that our product isis shelf stable as long as it
needs to be, and that we'remanufacturing it to the
standards that we need to.
SPEAKER_00 (22:29):
Oh, that's amazing.
So, how did they approach you?
Did you reach out?
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
We we went to them.
Yeah, they okay.
The University of Georgiaactually has a um a department
that are they are very familiarwith elderberry specifically.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
So they yeah, they they've got a couple projects
working uh on the research sideuh of elderberries, kind of just
scratching the surface on onwhat elderberry can do and what
what the benefits to the bodyand stuff like that.
But then they also have uh inthat same department, they also
kind of teach you um how topreserve it, just different
(23:02):
things like that, and how to howto how to manufacture.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
That is fantastic.
So, your manufacturing facility,I assume you started out in your
kitchen and uh like so many ofus do, and then how did it go
from there?
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
100%.
Yeah, you nailed it.
So we were making our first yearbatches just straight in our
kitchen, right?
Uh in a in a in a 15-gallonstainless steel tank, actually.
Gotcha.
So yeah, from that, and now wehave a 400-gallon tank that
we're running out of now.
It's still it we still do ithere on the farm.
It's just in a it's just in abuilding that we had built for
(23:38):
specifically for manufacturing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
So I love it.
So it's it's grown quite a bit.
Mostly family, or do you are youhiring outside people now?
How's your business structure?
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Do during the harvest season, it is it is we
need as many, as much help as wecan possibly get.
Uh, so yeah, we definitely hireduring that six-week window.
The rest of the season, justmanufacturing and stuff like
that, it actually is almost allfamily.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Nice.
I love that.
So with with things like, youknow, as again, I'm a small
little cottage thing too.
It's just me and my wife rightnow.
And uh we we've grown and shrunkas as things have needed to, but
I I've been battling my ownhealth issues right now.
So I'm we shrunk back downagain.
It's just me and her makingstuff.
But the point is, is there'slevels of you know, technology
(24:28):
and equipment and expense thatyou can do.
You can literally hand pourbottles and then you can have a
whole line that runs thousandsof bottles an hour, um, and
everything in between.
So uh what's been yourprogression there?
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Yeah, 100%.
So you're you nailed it.
So that 15-gallon tank that wehad initially, it was all it was
all hand poured, right?
So every every bottle done that,I know it, yeah.
So it's like, okay, this isgonna take forever.
So and it was fine for the firstyear or so, but then you know,
when you're sitting down, like Ineed I need 500 bottles here,
(25:03):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
You get carpal tunnel going on pretty quick
after a while.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
It gets very, very tedious.
So, yeah, it just systematicallywe said, okay, what's next?
What once where's our currentbottleneck?
Yeah, let's go get that piece ofequipment.
Uh, so from from the from thelarger tank sizes that we've
had, and we have grown as we'veneeded to on that.
We now have a full uh fillingline.
(25:28):
Nice, it's all automated.
So the bottles all get filled.
There's no, yeah, is the leastamount of hands that touch these
bottles, the better for usbecause it just speeds up
manufacturing.
But um probably has lessmistakes too.
Yeah, no doubt about it.
So, yeah, it's it's it's runningpretty well, which is why we can
really keep it in-house and justkeep it with the family at this
(25:48):
point.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
I love that.
And have you run into like I Iknow that during COVID, I ran
into a lot of supply chainissues, especially with things
like containers and seals andthings like that.
Do you run into any of thoseproblems?
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
Not really with not really with the containers.
Okay.
So yeah, we we we we puteverything in glass bottles, and
we always have about fivepallets on hand at one time.
We don't really like to go belowthat just in case we do run into
issues.
But uh there was there werelonger lead times, but it was
all we were always able to getget the bottles when we needed
(26:22):
them.
But then the other thing is weproduce all the elderberry
juice, we produce all the honey.
SPEAKER_00 (26:27):
All right, you got most of the supply chain right
in your own back pocket.
SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
And the funny thing is the folks that are making it
with the imported drieddehydration, they were
scrambling to try to find itbecause it's like everybody
wanted you know to makeelderberry syrup, yeah.
Uh, and that was the only waythey knew how to do it was these
dehydrated berries.
So, luckily for us, we uh asgrowers, uh, we kind of just had
a steady supply coming in.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Do you ever get approached by people that want
to make a similar product to buyyour raw materials?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
I have not, uh, and I I really wouldn't even have
anything to sell up.
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
Oh, I wouldn't imagine you would.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
I just yeah, no, it is yeah, we we are like this
year, for example, we were like,okay, come on, berries, you
gotta get right here because weneeded juice.
We needed to restock thatfreezer uh because we were
running pretty low on juice atthat point.
So um, yeah, that the ourbusiness really has grown, you
(27:23):
know, thankfully, so well in thelast couple of years, it's just
it's our biggest challenge rightnow is keeping up with the
demand and keeping enoughelderberry juice on hand to to
satisfy the orders.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Wow, what a beautiful story.
I I I love to hear uh successstories like this.
You're living the dream.
I mean, really, you you uh andand your family.
Um, how many kids you got?
I mean, how many people areinvolved in the operation here?
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Yeah, I my wife and I have two kids, but they're
both they're both too young toactually do any work.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
So it's just you and the wife mostly.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Well, yeah, it's my it's me and my wife.
Uh, I have my mom, I have mycouple sisters, okay, and I have
some bro, a brother-in-law.
So all right.
Uh, yeah, we we're stayingpretty busy with keeping it in
the family, and we haven't Ilove it.
We're we we still talk to eachother, so that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
I was gonna say, you know, those kind of things
either bring you closer togetheror send send somebody packing.
So that's exactly it's workingout this way.
Well, um, is there any kind of acentral message that you know
you've you've brought a lot tothe table, and I'm I can't tell
you how impressed I am thatthere are actually people out
there committed to quality theway that you guys are.
(28:34):
Um, like I said, as aformulator, I grow some of the
ingredients and I always say,look, I know what I grew and I
know how I grew it.
And I can tell you the qualityof that.
But when I buy from anotherplace, unless I've been to their
farm and get to know the people,which I do best as I can.
Oh, sure.
You can only do what you can do.
And um, I always say outside ofthat, I do my best to source the
(28:57):
best ingredients, but um reallyit's it's so refreshing to to
meet somebody who has that sameuh sense of of the importance of
all this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I certainly appreciatethat.
I take that as a hugecompliment.
But yeah, like I said, westarted this off as our family
thing, just to supply ourfamily, and and we are not
deviating no matter how big weever get from that same level of
quality.
The I think the last thing Iwould just leave with with your
listeners is if you'reinterested about elderberry
syrup, if that's you know, I'msure you probably most people
(29:29):
have heard of it, whetherthey've taken it or not.
But if you've heard ofelderberry syrup, um, we really
made our website and designed itpurposefully to be an
educational one.
Uh, so the website is justheartland elderberryfarms.com.
Um, and it's really we do apretty we try to do a really
good job of uh doing somecomparisons between dried
(29:50):
berries and fresh berries andthe and the potency and just
different things like that.
So it's not just trying to sellanything, it's really more for
an educational.
But the other the other thing IWould say is if you just I
challenge you to look at yourown label.
Like if you take elderberrysyrup, just flip that label
around.
And if that first ingredient iswater, then you know right then
(30:12):
and there it's made with adehydrated berry that's
imported.
So um, and and I will just tellyou if that's the case, there
are better options out there.
Elderberry syrup, it's not thecheapest thing in the world.
Uh, and I and while we really dostrive to price it uh very
competitively, even though wemake it with pure juice, um, you
know, if you're gonna buy it,you know, maybe just most people
(30:35):
want the best quality they canget.
It's it's more potent.
We've had it third-party testedfor potency, uh, and it really
it's through the roof in termsof just using water and
dehydrated berry.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
Well, I can tell you this.
I'm going to uh locate a sourceand I'm gonna purchase some and
I'm gonna make a batch of uh Imake a um respiratory support
elixir.
Yes, and elderberry is one ofthe key components of it.
Um, and I'm gonna make a batchwith it and try it out for
myself.
So um I'm you know we do smallbatch things, so it's it's um
(31:10):
I'm I'm right there with you.
I I I'll let you know, but I Isuspect I'm gonna really um
notice a difference.
Um, Russell, it's been anabsolute pleasure to have this
conversation.
I would love to come back andtalk about your bees another
time.
Um great.
But uh just thank you for beinga part of our of our community
(31:30):
here.
And um I just that's it.
I'm really grateful.
Yeah, Joe, I appreciate youhaving me.
I appreciate the conversation.
Fantastic.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumba, and Iwant to thank our listeners for
making this all possible, and wewill see you next time.
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