October 8, 2025 • 36 mins
Ever feel like everyone’s talking and no one’s hearing a thing? We sat down with Emmy-winning journalist and reinvention coach Jane Hanson to unpack how curiosity, presence, and clear delivery can turn noise into connection—and anxiety into confidence. From prairie roots to New York newsrooms, Jane shares why big changes demand new communication muscles and how anyone can build them with intention.
We dig into active listening as the real superpower: asking better questions, reflecting what you heard, and creating space for nuance so tension cools and ideas sharpen. Jane explains why first impressions form in seconds and how body language, tone, and pacing outweigh your script. We break down Aristotle’s ethos, logos, pathos in plain English—trust, logic, and emotion—and show how to apply them to pitches, team updates, and even talks with your kids. If your message keeps getting lost, it’s probably not the message; it’s the delivery.
You’ll leave with a DIY toolkit: a three-step recording routine to audit your speaking, a simple method to cut filler words by embracing strategic pauses, an eye contact map to engage the whole room, and a storytelling prompt that turns dry data into meaning. Jane’s golf anecdote proves the point—bring real emotion and specific detail, and audiences lean in while your talk gets shorter and clearer. Whether you’re leading a board meeting, returning to office life, or trying to be more present on Zoom, these habits will help you show up with credibility and warmth.
Subscribe, share with a friend who wants to communicate with more clarity, and leave a quick review to tell us the one skill you’re committing to improve this week.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Jane Hansen, andshe's an Emmy-winning
journalist, and she turned intoa communication and reinvention
expert, and she helps peoplestep into their confidence,
(00:22):
refine their voice, and embracereinvention at any stage of
life.
And as we're talking abouthealthy living, mind, body,
spirit, uh, this certainlyencompasses a lot of that.
June, welcome to the show.
I'm so glad that you could joinus today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Well, thank you very much for having me.
I'm I'm thrilled to be here.
And of course, we're talkingabout my favorite subject.
So why wouldn't I want to behere?
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
I love it.
I love it.
And you know, communication andand presentation and invention
and reinvention, you know, umthe human being, we're made of
all these different parts,right?
We got a body, we have a mind, aspirit, but the mind and spirit
really are so instrumental inour health.
(01:08):
And if we can get those twoworking right and feeling good
and um being an active part ofuh whatever it is we're we're
seeking to be part of, man, itcan be so instrumental.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and how you
came to this place?
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
I love the fact you're talking about the mind
and how the mind really can helpreset us for being healthier and
wiser and all those good thingsbecause it's paramount, and I
don't think we even recognizehow paramount it can be.
So congratulations on bringingall of that to the forefront.
Um, so I'm a Midwestern girl.
(01:49):
I grew up in rural Minnesota.
Uh, if anybody rememberswatching the show Little House
on the Prairie, my hometown isabout 40 miles from there.
So all you see miles and milesand miles and miles is prairie.
And it's still the same way asit was when I was a child.
Um, but I I've lived in New YorkCity for most of my adult life,
(02:12):
uh, working as a journalist forthe NBC Networks.
SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
That's a contrast, huh?
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yep.
My dad was a little afraid whenhe heard I was moving to like
that very much, but um, he alsoloved coming to visit.
So it was a it was a yes, it wasa significant change, um, but
one that I was very eager tomake and enjoyed every second of
it.
Um, and I think when we make bigchanges like that in our life,
(02:40):
and mine came when I was in myearly 20s, you really have to
refocus who you are, and thenhow do you continue to have
well-being and strength and andand and do your best to make the
adaptations you have to in yourin your head for this new type
of life?
For instead of seeing the same1200 people for an entire year,
(03:03):
I'm now seeing eight million,not all once, but but you never
know what you're going to meet.
And so it's for me, it was avery healthy and a very good
experience to understand thatthe world is comprised of so
many different types of people,from everything from their
(03:23):
beliefs to their ages to um youknow, to their whatever their
makeup is, uh to their culture,etc.
And so that for me was justabout the the curiosity that
that won out over everything,which by the way, I happen to
believe is one of the bestthings in the world that we can
have to continue to keep ushealthy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
100%.
100%.
I think that curiosity and uhthe the joy of discovery is
really like for me, it taps mylittle my inner little boy, you
know, always wanting to lookunder the next rock and see
what's there or peek around thetree and see what's hiding
(04:05):
behind there.
It's just like it's a constantstate of anticipation and um
excitement.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
It is, it is, and it's important for us to
continue to have that all of ourlife because I think when we get
stuck, we're stuck because we'reno longer curious.
And that and people who getstuck, it turns them upside
down.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Well, and it seems to be sort of the human nature
to either get stuck or findourselves in a rut.
Like we we carve these pathwaysto simple, easiest ways to
things, and we just keep doingthose things over and over again
until it becomes a habit, aritual, or whatever.
(04:50):
And you know, growth comes fromgetting outside of those comfort
zones.
And so, what you're talkingabout, the discovery and um, you
know, making these these leapsof faith, going from 1200 people
to 8 million people, like what atremendous um, you know, leap of
faith that would be.
(05:11):
And yet that's where you knowtrue growth comes from.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Absolutely.
You could you couldn't be truerwords have not been spoken, Joe.
They just haven't.
So um, so when when you talkabout the the the first of all,
we have a lot of issues in ourworld today when it comes to um
the communication aspects, whichis what I have lived my whole
(05:38):
life on, is about how do wecommunicate better.
And communication, when we don'tcommunicate well, that's where
we get into trouble.
Right.
We're not communicating so wellright now.
We're not listening.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
Oh my god, in the world.
Woo! It's like everybody speaks,it's like the Tower of Babel.
Everybody speaks a differentlanguage and nobody knows what
the hell each other's sayinganymore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
Yeah, exactly.
So so if there's one thing thatI would love people to carry
away from our conversationtoday, it's just this notion of
how do I actually how do how canI communicate better?
And that is part of whatcuriosity is, because a huge
(06:23):
part of communicating isn'tabout me talking or you talking,
but it's about me listening andyou listening.
And listening is far moreimportant much of the time than
talking.
And active listening issomething that I teach a lot in
my work.
And what do I mean by activelistening?
(06:44):
It means you're not just waitingfor somebody to finish talking
so that you can then jump in andsay what you think.
Right.
What you're doing is you'relistening, you're absorbing it,
you ask more questions to askthem to elaborate.
And the moment that you start toreally become interested in what
somebody else is saying, itcompletely changes the ball
(07:07):
game.
Now, it may not mean that you'rethat they've changed your point
of view or that or that, but youmight understand better why
somebody could feel differentlythan you, or they might add one
part of it that says, hmm,there's a place I can make a
compromise, or there's somethingthat happens, and and and those
(07:28):
people, by the way, walk awayfrom this conversation thinking
you're one of the greatestpeople ever because you
listened.
Right.
So it's it's really it, it'sit's just some mind-boggling to
me that absolutely listening.
We're so prone to saying, Oh,yes, that happened to me.
(07:48):
Let me tell you how you fix it.
Instead of, hmm, how'd you feelabout that?
Or elaborate about why thathappened.
Um, or I'm not, I didn't quiteunderstand.
Just make it, can you can youmake it a little clearer for me?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Or even it's just expanding on a point that you
made that says, Well, theycaught that.
Like when you're speaking tosomebody, you know, there's two
elements.
One, I've got this thing I wantto say and share, but two, I'm
actually wanting somebody tocatch it and and and absorb it
and maybe bounce it back to me.
And so many times, you know,you're talking, you know, we're
(08:28):
broadcasting all the time,right?
We're on this podcast, and ourhope is that listeners are gonna
hear it, but we'll never know.
And except for looking atnumbers and things, or maybe
somebody will reach back andsay, hey, I was listening to
that thing you said, and you'relike, oh wow, somebody actually
heard me.
But when you're having aconversation like you and I are
right now, and somebody actuallyengages, and you're like, they
(08:51):
couldn't have said that to beunless they actually heard what
I was saying and thought aboutit and got it back to me,
there's this level of, you know,you're talking to most people
and you just see their eyes andthey're off thinking about
something else or whatever.
Like there's this sort ofsemi-engagement.
But when you're actually engagedin a true conversation and
you're sharing ideas andthoughts, um, there's something
(09:14):
different that happens.
You know, I can see in your eyesthat you're hearing what I'm
saying, and you can see in myeyes that I'm hearing what
you're saying.
And it's just there's aconnection of energy there that
changes the dynamic of it all.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
It does, which is leading me to one other part
that's so important in all ofthis, which is what our bodies
are doing when we'recommunicating.
And when you if you really thinkabout it, we haven't had a
spoken language, considering howlong man or woman has walked on
(09:50):
earth, we've only, which ismillions of years, we've only
had a spoken language, it'sestimated, by about of about
160,000 years.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
Yeah, exactly.
So before that, everything wedid was through the way we
looked at each other, the way welistened to each other, the way
we approached each other, theway we made gestures, uh, the
way we held our bodies, ourposture, our facial expressions,
all of that was extraordinarilycrucial.
(10:22):
And it still is.
I mean, you gotta you gottaadmit that the moment because
we're doing this, even thoughthey can't see us, we're
actually still doing it on a ona Zoom and looking at each
other.
(10:42):
The moment you saw me, you madea judgment about me.
Yeah.
And the moment I saw you, I madea judgment about you.
We always do.
Yeah.
And those judgments are reallybig deals because it's
considered again.
I've got all this these facts,this data points.
(11:06):
But there's a study that sayssomebody will make a decision
about you, a first impression ofyou, in less than seven seconds.
Absolutely.
So you haven't even opened yourmouth.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
Right.
A little micro expression hereor there, and you're like,
whoop, I've just read that.
And you're like, and I don'teven my brain isn't even telling
me what I'm thinking.
No, I just feel this thing,whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
Right.
So so that's so it's so innate.
And and we need to we need tothink about that.
And I mean, I've had don't youhave people that you've either
worked with or friends or yourfamily, and they go, I don't
like that person.
Oh why?
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
And they can't explain it to you.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
But it needs to be something about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
Something happened in those few seconds.
They go, nope, don't like them,don't like them.
And it takes it, and this thesame study says it takes eight
subsequent interactions withthat person before they will
even consider changing theirmind about you.
About that.
And it might have been becauseyou were in a bad mood.
(12:24):
Maybe you were you're hungry.
Or you're hungry.
You're hungry and you're like,oh, I gotta have something to
eat.
And in in their mind, they'regoing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
So it's just the dumbest.
Some of it's some of it isstupid, and some of it is
brilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Right.
Right.
You might you might recognize apsychopath just with uh the way
they're squint their eyes at youfor some reason or whatever, and
go, Wow, I gotta keep away fromthis guy, or I don't trust him,
or whatever.
The other side of it is like Isaid, somebody might have an
upset stomach, and you might,you know, get an imp an
incorrect read on somebody andand judge them harshly when, in
(13:09):
fact, like you said, they'rejust having a bad moment.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Right.
And we all do, which is why it'sso important, like in the world
of business, that no matter howyou're feeling, you gotta show
up in the best possible way andbe really super present, be
really present because we'redistracted, you know.
(13:34):
We got those little stupid phonethings in that column, whatever
they are, and we when we gotwe're so bummed.
We're just it's like it allcomes at us, and and and some
days it's overwhelming, and somedays you're so overwhelmed that
you can't even respond right tosomebody.
And then I do something terriblesometimes, which I know I have
(13:55):
to change, it's one of my vowsis I'll be talking to somebody
on the phone, and at themeantime, I'm watching my emails
come in, uh answering emails,and I and I'm not fully
distracted just like that, andyou know what?
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
They know they know they know 100%.
I can always tell whensomebody's doing something else.
I'm like, should we just do thisanother time?
Because I, you know, and it isfunny, like for me, I I these
Zoom calls are the closest thingwe can get to uh sitting in the
same room.
I'd always rather sit in thesame room if it's at all
(14:34):
possible.
I do a lot of these podcastsside by side with my guests just
sitting right next to mewhenever I can.
But emails and texts to me arethe value of them is recording
something you said so thatnobody can say, Well, you didn't
say that or whatever.
But that's it.
(14:54):
Other than that, you know,unless you're a brilliant writer
and you can inflect in yourwriting what you're trying to
say, the way you're trying tosay it, like even our
conversation, there's facialexpressions and gestures, and
the the tone goes up and downand faster and slower that
denotes really the conversationmore than the words themselves.
(15:16):
And unless you're a brilliantwriter and you can express that
in a beautiful way, it getslost, and people get take it
wrong all the time.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
That's exactly right.
There's another statistic, whichis that 93% of the way people
give us credibility or how orhow we resonate is the way we
deliver what we're saying andnot what we're saying, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
And that's charisma, that's your personality, that's
the not the words you're saying,it's how you say them.
And your ability to, I think allit really is is your ability to
let out what's inside because weall have this amazing thing
inside of us, but we've got youknow miles of shields and
barricades and traumas andthings that keep them from
(16:07):
getting out.
And so, you know, we becomerobotic or whatever the thing,
our our defense mechanism isthat keeps us from letting this
beautiful thing out.
But if you can, you know, that'syour that's your personality,
that's your charisma, that'syour game, whatever you want to
call it.
It absolutely is.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
So one of my jobs is to help people let it out.
Nice.
And I I do a couple of littleexperiments, and and actually
anybody could do this.
This is what you're gonna useyour phone because you're gonna
record yourself, right?
And I want, and so what I wantis for people to record
themselves uh just talking,telling the story, and then
(16:54):
listen back to it, and howenergetic is it?
How enticing is it?
How are you saying the words?
And by the way, when you read astory to a child, we will say,
the big bad wolf, right, thelittle beautiful girl in her red
(17:16):
riding suit, and we and the waywe describe things, kids
immediately get it.
But as we grow up, we stoplosing all of that, and we go,
the big bad wolf met the littlegirl in the red riding suit.
unknown (17:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
So we have to get back to thinking of how we can
express things better becausethe more we bring it to life,
the better I'm going tounderstand what you're trying to
say.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Totally agree.
We should spend more time aroundthe campfire, you know, telling
the stories, you know, the ghoststories and the whatever, you
know, because that's where youreally get into that narrative,
you know, you're trying to raiseup an energy and get people to
get into your story, right?
So you, you know, you tell it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
I know it's just again stories are wonderful, and
they're they truly are the bestway of helping promote
understanding because when youtell me something that happened
to you, then I begin tounderstand why you might be
acting the way you are, or whysomething something there's
(18:23):
something that you can'ttolerate, or there that really
bothers you, some behavior.
But until if I don't know thestory, I think, what a weirdo.
Or you know, that guy's anutcase.
Instead of understanding, well,do you know what happened to
him?
Right.
Once somebody tells you that,then you feel you feel horrible
(18:44):
for having you having judgedsomeone when you didn't know the
facts, but yet they're notvulnerable or capable of telling
you that story because you're astranger.
So you know, and that gets backto curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Well, and I think that you know, most of the
negative experiences we havewith people, we tend to just get
defensive and push them away.
But the truth is, anybody who'sever mean to you, they're hurt.
Oh, yeah.
There's just no there, it's it.
I don't think there's anyexception to it.
Like, people aren't naturallyjust mean.
I suppose there's a fewpsychopaths out there that are
(19:17):
just born mean, but generallyspeaking, when somebody, you
know, then you look at kids whenthey meet each other, hey, how's
it going?
Do you want to be friends?
Like kids don't walk up to eachother and bop each other on the
head, generally, they they theywant to share something
together, and we're notdifferent, you know.
But when things happen to usthat cause us to whatever, be
(19:39):
damaged or traumatized, we startacting differently.
And and and when somebody treatsyou poorly right off the bat,
instead of us going, oh, Igotta, you know, push back or
get them or whatever, you know,I I would say if you could
figure out, hey, what's wrong,you know, you okay?
(19:59):
And um, that would change thedynamic of of most of these
negative experiences we havewith people.
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
I absolutely agree with you.
When you think about little, youthink about kids and bullying.
I mean, the bullies are bulliesbecause they're insecure or
they're scared or somethinghappened to them, or they've got
some terrible situation at athome, or there's something going
on that has nothing to do withyou.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
100%, 100%.
Well, June, you know, you youhave a program now and you're
helping people.
I'd like to hear about that, youknow.
Um, this is something that to mewe have all these people that
come around and share theirstories and they they had this
experience or they have thatprogram or business or product
(20:50):
or whatever, but how it worksand how people come to you and
the transformative element ofthat, I'd really like to hear
about that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
So I mainly work with uh people in the business
world.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
And so I mean, I I should all I should also clarify
that by saying I work withpeople of all of all, you know,
all from all across allindustries.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
And so I will work with charitable organizations
and I will work with top-levelCEOs, and I'll work with people
in the in the tech space,because these communication
skills are completelytransferable across every
imaginable situation.
I work with authors, I work withactors, I work with sports
figures, I work with you, I meanyou name it, and I've worked
(21:39):
with them.
And and here's why they come tome.
They come to me for a number ofdifferent reasons.
Maybe they've they've gotten anew job that's very high
profile, and they know now thatthe words that they say and and
and and what how they appear isgoing to deeply affect the
(21:59):
reputation of the company thatthey work for, that they are the
spokesperson.
Or they may come to me becausethey don't have the confidence
to do something that involvesthem either getting on a stage
or making a lot ofpresentations, or maybe doing
podcasts, or or uh they're theythey're put into a position now
(22:20):
where they have to be much moreum much more of a of a speaker.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Maybe there's somebody who's now going to get
a lot of media attention,they're going to be doing
interviews, that sort of thing.
Uh it's and or maybe it's peoplethat are going back to work and
haven't worked for a long time.
I get a I've I've worked with alot of of moms who stayed at
home for a while.
Now they're going back to theworkplace and they they don't
feel confident.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
So now you're dealing with a lot more of that
since COVID and all the peoplekind of working from home or not
working or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
It is.
And this whole thing of workingfrom home, that's inspired a lot
of people who don't feel asconfident now when they're going
into an office.
So that's a whole other thing.
And I also, because I was doingZoom calls and things long
before we actually had COVID,because I was doing a lot of
international stuff where travelwasn't sometimes didn't work.
(23:13):
Sure.
Actually, I actually had a headstart on Zooms and Google Meets
and all that stuff long beforeit became um a verb.
Um so what I do with people is Ihelp them understand what it is
that's causing kind of theirstuckness or causing their um
(23:37):
what what what is it what'stheir goal?
Where do they want to get andwhy do they need help getting
there?
And then through uh then I thenI I highly customize all of my
programming because it has tobe.
Everybody's an individual, andwhat may be may be a big fear
for one person is not a fear foranother, but they've got
(23:59):
something else that they needhelp with.
And so we do a lot of work inparamount, yeah, is who are we?
It's you know, there's threecore parts of it.
One is who's our audience, whoare we talking to, where are we
carrying our message?
Uh do how well do we know them?
What do we need to know aboutthem?
How are we going to resonatewith them?
(24:20):
Then two, what are we actuallysaying and what's the key
message that we have for theworld?
Um, and usually there's onebottom line message that we're
carrying forth.
So how are we going to deliverthem or how are we going to we
got to help create that messagein a way where it's easily
understood?
And then um, and then it's howare we delivering it, which gets
(24:43):
into the body language.
So, you know, first who am Italking to?
What am I saying, and how am Isaying it?
And I take a lot of what I dofrom the guy considered the
father of communications, who isAristotle.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, and Aristotle, and that long time ago, okay,
long time ago.
And so yeah, and it's still thesame stuff.
So he had um ethos or um, can Itrust you?
Uh-huh.
You the expert, can I trust you?
Which is important, you know,important in business.
Business is basically we want tobe, we want to work with
(25:16):
somebody we trust and we want tolike them.
So it's possibility.
Then the second part is logos orlogic.
Are you explaining it in a way Ican understand?
Is it reasonable?
Is it logical?
And then the third part ispathos or pathos, which is
emotions.
Because in everything that wedo, we're either trying to
(25:39):
provide information, persuadesomebody, uh, um, entertain
them, whatever it is we'retrying to do in that
conversation, thatcommunication, then we have to
think about the emotions thatare needed to be able to relate
to that human being.
So now so those are the thingsthat we work on.
(26:01):
I use a lot of video, I recordpeople, nice, and we pay play it
back and we talk about what theyand I I they were partners.
I'm not sitting there going,well, this is what you did
wrong.
And here I you tell me what youthink of that video because our
perception of ourselves is awhole lot different than the
(26:24):
other way people perceive us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
I think that's powerful.
I mean, if you look at you know,public speakers and the the
tools that many of them talkabout, it's it's practicing and
reviewing and looking atyourself and being honest and
listening to yourself.
And it's kind of hard to do.
Like, I know when I startedspeaking in public, you know,
(26:48):
people would say, Well, you'redoing pretty good, but you're
always looking up in the air, oryou're you know, you you're
uming too much or whatever.
And then I'm like, Okay, Ibetter just start listening to
myself, and then you do, andyou're like, Oh, all right, I
can see that.
And and if you're honest, you'relike, that's a solvable problem.
I can just practice my waythrough that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
It all is, yeah, and that's why I'm saying take the
phones and record yourself,right?
So then, so record yourself justtelling a story, or maybe maybe
you do have a presentation ofsome sort, record for the first
five minutes of it now.
Listen, then listen to it.
The first time you listen to it,I want you to do it with your
(27:28):
eyes closed.
Okay.
So now all you're doing ishearing it.
How does it sound?
What are the words that you'reare you are you emphasizing the
right words?
Is the message clear?
Are you what are you feelingfrom it?
Then the second time, look at itwith the sound off and just your
(27:49):
body.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
And then so now you're seeing how is what are my
facial expressions like?
What's my eye contact like?
Am I smiling?
Am I frowning?
Am I emphasizing well?
Then look at the full thing.
Nice.
And but but there's one problem,which is we're all way too
self-critical.
Absolutely.
So now you're gonna you'vewritten down 15 things and
(28:13):
you're going, ah, I give up.
SPEAKER_00 (28:14):
Most people are never gonna pay that much
attention.
Well, you'd be surprised.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Well, subconsciously they certainly will, but but
yeah, so so what so then what Iwant you to do is pick out one
thing, the one thing thatbothered you the most, or the
one thing that you think wouldreally help.
And for the next two weeks,you're gonna work on that one
thing.
Okay, be it the ums.
I'm saying, um, I'm using thatfiller word.
(28:41):
Now I'm gonna figure out how amI going to stop doing the um.
And once you're aware of it, youstop pretty quickly.
But it's also it's also twoother things factor in one, we
usually use those words whenwe're not well prepared.
And secondly, we use them tofill dead air.
So instead pause.
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
Right.
Pause is worth a hundred badwords.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Exactly.
So now, so now you've you'veyou've maybe you cu you cured
the filler word problem.
Now do it again two weeks later.
And now you pick out somethingelse and you say, Oh, I have no
eye contact.
Just like you said that peoplelooked at the that told you you
looked up all the time.
They say eye contact.
So what am I gonna do?
(29:28):
Okay, so now how how how do Ihow do I make sure I'm doing a
better job of that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
And and why am I not looking at people?
Am I afraid that they're gonnagive me ugly looks that they're
not gonna be listening?
So now you just start looking atyour audience.
I divide if I'm in a a room withmore than like five people, I
divide it into three pieces,slices of pizza, and I look at
one side, then I look at themiddle, and I look at the other
(29:54):
side, and then I look atindividuals.
But I'm just making sure that Igot good eye contact.
Okay, so now you solve twoproblems, right?
So, and as you go along, you getbetter and better and more
confident.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Comfortable, yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, listen, we're getting alittle low on time.
I really like to hear a um anexample of one of the people
you've worked with that youthought was maybe really
transformative or impactful insome personal way.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Well, most of the people I work with, I do not
give out their names.
Oh no, we don't need names, justjust so what I particularly love
is when there's an aha moment.
Nice.
So I remember uh once I wasworking with this uh this man
who worked for an insurancecompany, and talking about
(30:51):
insurance at a presentation cansometimes be incredibly boring.
SPEAKER_00 (30:55):
I would imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
So he was doing this presentation and he'd done it
two or three or four times, andhe kept saying, It's not getting
any better.
I said, Okay, I want you to dosomething different.
And he said, What?
I said, What's your favorite?
What do you like to do outsideof work?
And he said, play golf.
I said, Okay, I want you to tellme the story, which I recorded
(31:20):
of the last time that you hadyour best round of golf.
Okay, why?
And so he did.
And he's like, Oh, it was thisbeautiful sunny day.
I was playing with my bestfriend, and I and I hadn't been
able to hit my pitching wedge.
We got up to this.
He said, I had this, I had thisdrive that was the longest drive
(31:40):
I've ever had.
And then I knew all I had was apitching wedge.
And he gets into this whole longthing about the pitching wedge,
and and he said, and I looked atit and I thought, I am gonna get
this thing to the hole.
And it got landed about justabout two inches from the hole.
Wow, and that went right in.
And he goes, I birdied the hole,and he said this.
(32:03):
I said, Okay, you heard thatemotion that you just had in
that?
And he goes, Yep.
And I said, Why don't you thinkabout a story about somebody
within your insurance, someeither client that you've helped
or a problem that you solved,put that in the presentation and
let's try this again.
So he thought for a few minutesand he put a story into the
(32:26):
presentation, and the wholething became interesting and
dynamic.
And by the way, about 10 minutesshorter.
And it was so good.
I got oh my god, that that I I Inever thought I could do that
presentation.
So think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
I love it, love it, love it.
Well, Jane, I this has beenriveting.
I I I wasn't sure, you know,walking into this.
We've misfired three timestrying to get together.
I'm like, all right, well,hopefully this time.
And um I this has just been anabsolutely riveting
conversation.
So if you could wrap up yourthoughts and and deliver your
(33:09):
you know, 20-second elevatorpitch to somebody, what would
you what would you tell ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
I would tell them that every part of life, whether
it's you making a presentationto the chairman of the board of
the biggest company in theworld, or talking to your
five-year-old, all of life isjust a conversation.
And so make sure that you arehaving the best conversation you
can with whomever you aretalking to.
(33:35):
Listen well, don't jump in andbe really truly present.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
I love it.
That is some wisdom right there.
Well, as always, I always try togive our guests an opportunity
to connect with the listeners.
And I know you're probablypretty well booked in in fancy
uh New York City and all thatgood stuff.
However, um, if somebody doeswant to reach out and and engage
(34:02):
you, how would they get a holdof you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:05):
Well, it's pretty easy, and by the way, I travel
almost anywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
Oh, beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
Um, so I have a website, janehanson,
h-a-n-s-o-n.com.
And my email that goes alongwith that website is jane at
janehanson.com.
It's really, really simple.
And I love talking to people andI love working with anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Beautiful.
Well, you're providing a verynecessary service.
If you're ever in SouthernCalifornia, I'd love to meet up
with you and uh have anotherconversation.
Um, it's been an absolutepleasure.
I want to thank you for joiningthe show and uh certainly
welcome you back anytime uh itstrikes your fancy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:45):
Joe, thank you so much.
I had a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
Beautiful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grombine.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners for making this
possible, and we will see younext time.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we've got a very special
guest.
Her name is Jane Hansen, andshe's an Emmy-winning
journalist, and she turned intoa communication and reinvention
expert, and she helps peoplestep into their confidence,
(00:22):
refine their voice, and embracereinvention at any stage of
life.
And as we're talking abouthealthy living, mind, body,
spirit, uh, this certainlyencompasses a lot of that.
June, welcome to the show.
I'm so glad that you could joinus today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Well, thank you very much for having me.
I'm I'm thrilled to be here.
And of course, we're talkingabout my favorite subject.
So why wouldn't I want to behere?
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
I love it.
I love it.
And you know, communication andand presentation and invention
and reinvention, you know, umthe human being, we're made of
all these different parts,right?
We got a body, we have a mind, aspirit, but the mind and spirit
really are so instrumental inour health.
(01:08):
And if we can get those twoworking right and feeling good
and um being an active part ofuh whatever it is we're we're
seeking to be part of, man, itcan be so instrumental.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and how you
came to this place?
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
I love the fact you're talking about the mind
and how the mind really can helpreset us for being healthier and
wiser and all those good thingsbecause it's paramount, and I
don't think we even recognizehow paramount it can be.
So congratulations on bringingall of that to the forefront.
Um, so I'm a Midwestern girl.
(01:49):
I grew up in rural Minnesota.
Uh, if anybody rememberswatching the show Little House
on the Prairie, my hometown isabout 40 miles from there.
So all you see miles and milesand miles and miles is prairie.
And it's still the same way asit was when I was a child.
Um, but I I've lived in New YorkCity for most of my adult life,
(02:12):
uh, working as a journalist forthe NBC Networks.
SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
That's a contrast, huh?
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yep.
My dad was a little afraid whenhe heard I was moving to like
that very much, but um, he alsoloved coming to visit.
So it was a it was a yes, it wasa significant change, um, but
one that I was very eager tomake and enjoyed every second of
it.
Um, and I think when we make bigchanges like that in our life,
(02:40):
and mine came when I was in myearly 20s, you really have to
refocus who you are, and thenhow do you continue to have
well-being and strength and andand and do your best to make the
adaptations you have to in yourin your head for this new type
of life?
For instead of seeing the same1200 people for an entire year,
(03:03):
I'm now seeing eight million,not all once, but but you never
know what you're going to meet.
And so it's for me, it was avery healthy and a very good
experience to understand thatthe world is comprised of so
many different types of people,from everything from their
(03:23):
beliefs to their ages to um youknow, to their whatever their
makeup is, uh to their culture,etc.
And so that for me was justabout the the curiosity that
that won out over everything,which by the way, I happen to
believe is one of the bestthings in the world that we can
have to continue to keep ushealthy.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
100%.
100%.
I think that curiosity and uhthe the joy of discovery is
really like for me, it taps mylittle my inner little boy, you
know, always wanting to lookunder the next rock and see
what's there or peek around thetree and see what's hiding
(04:05):
behind there.
It's just like it's a constantstate of anticipation and um
excitement.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
It is, it is, and it's important for us to
continue to have that all of ourlife because I think when we get
stuck, we're stuck because we'reno longer curious.
And that and people who getstuck, it turns them upside
down.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Well, and it seems to be sort of the human nature
to either get stuck or findourselves in a rut.
Like we we carve these pathwaysto simple, easiest ways to
things, and we just keep doingthose things over and over again
until it becomes a habit, aritual, or whatever.
(04:50):
And you know, growth comes fromgetting outside of those comfort
zones.
And so, what you're talkingabout, the discovery and um, you
know, making these these leapsof faith, going from 1200 people
to 8 million people, like what atremendous um, you know, leap of
faith that would be.
(05:11):
And yet that's where you knowtrue growth comes from.
SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Absolutely.
You could you couldn't be truerwords have not been spoken, Joe.
They just haven't.
So um, so when when you talkabout the the the first of all,
we have a lot of issues in ourworld today when it comes to um
the communication aspects, whichis what I have lived my whole
(05:38):
life on, is about how do wecommunicate better.
And communication, when we don'tcommunicate well, that's where
we get into trouble.
Right.
We're not communicating so wellright now.
We're not listening.
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
Oh my god, in the world.
Woo! It's like everybody speaks,it's like the Tower of Babel.
Everybody speaks a differentlanguage and nobody knows what
the hell each other's sayinganymore.
SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
Yeah, exactly.
So so if there's one thing thatI would love people to carry
away from our conversationtoday, it's just this notion of
how do I actually how do how canI communicate better?
And that is part of whatcuriosity is, because a huge
(06:23):
part of communicating isn'tabout me talking or you talking,
but it's about me listening andyou listening.
And listening is far moreimportant much of the time than
talking.
And active listening issomething that I teach a lot in
my work.
And what do I mean by activelistening?
(06:44):
It means you're not just waitingfor somebody to finish talking
so that you can then jump in andsay what you think.
Right.
What you're doing is you'relistening, you're absorbing it,
you ask more questions to askthem to elaborate.
And the moment that you start toreally become interested in what
somebody else is saying, itcompletely changes the ball
(07:07):
game.
Now, it may not mean that you'rethat they've changed your point
of view or that or that, but youmight understand better why
somebody could feel differentlythan you, or they might add one
part of it that says, hmm,there's a place I can make a
compromise, or there's somethingthat happens, and and and those
(07:28):
people, by the way, walk awayfrom this conversation thinking
you're one of the greatestpeople ever because you
listened.
Right.
So it's it's really it, it'sit's just some mind-boggling to
me that absolutely listening.
We're so prone to saying, Oh,yes, that happened to me.
(07:48):
Let me tell you how you fix it.
Instead of, hmm, how'd you feelabout that?
Or elaborate about why thathappened.
Um, or I'm not, I didn't quiteunderstand.
Just make it, can you can youmake it a little clearer for me?
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Or even it's just expanding on a point that you
made that says, Well, theycaught that.
Like when you're speaking tosomebody, you know, there's two
elements.
One, I've got this thing I wantto say and share, but two, I'm
actually wanting somebody tocatch it and and and absorb it
and maybe bounce it back to me.
And so many times, you know,you're talking, you know, we're
(08:28):
broadcasting all the time,right?
We're on this podcast, and ourhope is that listeners are gonna
hear it, but we'll never know.
And except for looking atnumbers and things, or maybe
somebody will reach back andsay, hey, I was listening to
that thing you said, and you'relike, oh wow, somebody actually
heard me.
But when you're having aconversation like you and I are
right now, and somebody actuallyengages, and you're like, they
(08:51):
couldn't have said that to beunless they actually heard what
I was saying and thought aboutit and got it back to me,
there's this level of, you know,you're talking to most people
and you just see their eyes andthey're off thinking about
something else or whatever.
Like there's this sort ofsemi-engagement.
But when you're actually engagedin a true conversation and
you're sharing ideas andthoughts, um, there's something
(09:14):
different that happens.
You know, I can see in your eyesthat you're hearing what I'm
saying, and you can see in myeyes that I'm hearing what
you're saying.
And it's just there's aconnection of energy there that
changes the dynamic of it all.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
It does, which is leading me to one other part
that's so important in all ofthis, which is what our bodies
are doing when we'recommunicating.
And when you if you really thinkabout it, we haven't had a
spoken language, considering howlong man or woman has walked on
(09:50):
earth, we've only, which ismillions of years, we've only
had a spoken language, it'sestimated, by about of about
160,000 years.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
Yeah, exactly.
So before that, everything wedid was through the way we
looked at each other, the way welistened to each other, the way
we approached each other, theway we made gestures, uh, the
way we held our bodies, ourposture, our facial expressions,
all of that was extraordinarilycrucial.
(10:22):
And it still is.
I mean, you gotta you gottaadmit that the moment because
we're doing this, even thoughthey can't see us, we're
actually still doing it on a ona Zoom and looking at each
other.
(10:42):
The moment you saw me, you madea judgment about me.
Yeah.
And the moment I saw you, I madea judgment about you.
We always do.
Yeah.
And those judgments are reallybig deals because it's
considered again.
I've got all this these facts,this data points.
(11:06):
But there's a study that sayssomebody will make a decision
about you, a first impression ofyou, in less than seven seconds.
Absolutely.
So you haven't even opened yourmouth.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
Right.
A little micro expression hereor there, and you're like,
whoop, I've just read that.
And you're like, and I don'teven my brain isn't even telling
me what I'm thinking.
No, I just feel this thing,whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01 (11:35):
Right.
So so that's so it's so innate.
And and we need to we need tothink about that.
And I mean, I've had don't youhave people that you've either
worked with or friends or yourfamily, and they go, I don't
like that person.
Oh why?
SPEAKER_00 (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
And they can't explain it to you.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
But it needs to be something about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
Something happened in those few seconds.
They go, nope, don't like them,don't like them.
And it takes it, and this thesame study says it takes eight
subsequent interactions withthat person before they will
even consider changing theirmind about you.
About that.
And it might have been becauseyou were in a bad mood.
(12:24):
Maybe you were you're hungry.
Or you're hungry.
You're hungry and you're like,oh, I gotta have something to
eat.
And in in their mind, they'regoing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
So it's just the dumbest.
Some of it's some of it isstupid, and some of it is
brilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
Right.
Right.
You might you might recognize apsychopath just with uh the way
they're squint their eyes at youfor some reason or whatever, and
go, Wow, I gotta keep away fromthis guy, or I don't trust him,
or whatever.
The other side of it is like Isaid, somebody might have an
upset stomach, and you might,you know, get an imp an
incorrect read on somebody andand judge them harshly when, in
(13:09):
fact, like you said, they'rejust having a bad moment.
SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
Right.
And we all do, which is why it'sso important, like in the world
of business, that no matter howyou're feeling, you gotta show
up in the best possible way andbe really super present, be
really present because we'redistracted, you know.
(13:34):
We got those little stupid phonethings in that column, whatever
they are, and we when we gotwe're so bummed.
We're just it's like it allcomes at us, and and and some
days it's overwhelming, and somedays you're so overwhelmed that
you can't even respond right tosomebody.
And then I do something terriblesometimes, which I know I have
(13:55):
to change, it's one of my vowsis I'll be talking to somebody
on the phone, and at themeantime, I'm watching my emails
come in, uh answering emails,and I and I'm not fully
distracted just like that, andyou know what?
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
They know they know they know 100%.
I can always tell whensomebody's doing something else.
I'm like, should we just do thisanother time?
Because I, you know, and it isfunny, like for me, I I these
Zoom calls are the closest thingwe can get to uh sitting in the
same room.
I'd always rather sit in thesame room if it's at all
(14:34):
possible.
I do a lot of these podcastsside by side with my guests just
sitting right next to mewhenever I can.
But emails and texts to me arethe value of them is recording
something you said so thatnobody can say, Well, you didn't
say that or whatever.
But that's it.
(14:54):
Other than that, you know,unless you're a brilliant writer
and you can inflect in yourwriting what you're trying to
say, the way you're trying tosay it, like even our
conversation, there's facialexpressions and gestures, and
the the tone goes up and downand faster and slower that
denotes really the conversationmore than the words themselves.
(15:16):
And unless you're a brilliantwriter and you can express that
in a beautiful way, it getslost, and people get take it
wrong all the time.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
That's exactly right.
There's another statistic, whichis that 93% of the way people
give us credibility or how orhow we resonate is the way we
deliver what we're saying andnot what we're saying, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
And that's charisma, that's your personality, that's
the not the words you're saying,it's how you say them.
And your ability to, I think allit really is is your ability to
let out what's inside because weall have this amazing thing
inside of us, but we've got youknow miles of shields and
barricades and traumas andthings that keep them from
(16:07):
getting out.
And so, you know, we becomerobotic or whatever the thing,
our our defense mechanism isthat keeps us from letting this
beautiful thing out.
But if you can, you know, that'syour that's your personality,
that's your charisma, that'syour game, whatever you want to
call it.
It absolutely is.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
So one of my jobs is to help people let it out.
Nice.
And I I do a couple of littleexperiments, and and actually
anybody could do this.
This is what you're gonna useyour phone because you're gonna
record yourself, right?
And I want, and so what I wantis for people to record
themselves uh just talking,telling the story, and then
(16:54):
listen back to it, and howenergetic is it?
How enticing is it?
How are you saying the words?
And by the way, when you read astory to a child, we will say,
the big bad wolf, right, thelittle beautiful girl in her red
(17:16):
riding suit, and we and the waywe describe things, kids
immediately get it.
But as we grow up, we stoplosing all of that, and we go,
the big bad wolf met the littlegirl in the red riding suit.
unknown (17:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
So we have to get back to thinking of how we can
express things better becausethe more we bring it to life,
the better I'm going tounderstand what you're trying to
say.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Totally agree.
We should spend more time aroundthe campfire, you know, telling
the stories, you know, the ghoststories and the whatever, you
know, because that's where youreally get into that narrative,
you know, you're trying to raiseup an energy and get people to
get into your story, right?
So you, you know, you tell it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
I know it's just again stories are wonderful, and
they're they truly are the bestway of helping promote
understanding because when youtell me something that happened
to you, then I begin tounderstand why you might be
acting the way you are, or whysomething something there's
(18:23):
something that you can'ttolerate, or there that really
bothers you, some behavior.
But until if I don't know thestory, I think, what a weirdo.
Or you know, that guy's anutcase.
Instead of understanding, well,do you know what happened to
him?
Right.
Once somebody tells you that,then you feel you feel horrible
(18:44):
for having you having judgedsomeone when you didn't know the
facts, but yet they're notvulnerable or capable of telling
you that story because you're astranger.
So you know, and that gets backto curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Well, and I think that you know, most of the
negative experiences we havewith people, we tend to just get
defensive and push them away.
But the truth is, anybody who'sever mean to you, they're hurt.
Oh, yeah.
There's just no there, it's it.
I don't think there's anyexception to it.
Like, people aren't naturallyjust mean.
I suppose there's a fewpsychopaths out there that are
(19:17):
just born mean, but generallyspeaking, when somebody, you
know, then you look at kids whenthey meet each other, hey, how's
it going?
Do you want to be friends?
Like kids don't walk up to eachother and bop each other on the
head, generally, they they theywant to share something
together, and we're notdifferent, you know.
But when things happen to usthat cause us to whatever, be
(19:39):
damaged or traumatized, we startacting differently.
And and and when somebody treatsyou poorly right off the bat,
instead of us going, oh, Igotta, you know, push back or
get them or whatever, you know,I I would say if you could
figure out, hey, what's wrong,you know, you okay?
(19:59):
And um, that would change thedynamic of of most of these
negative experiences we havewith people.
SPEAKER_01 (20:07):
I absolutely agree with you.
When you think about little, youthink about kids and bullying.
I mean, the bullies are bulliesbecause they're insecure or
they're scared or somethinghappened to them, or they've got
some terrible situation at athome, or there's something going
on that has nothing to do withyou.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
100%, 100%.
Well, June, you know, you youhave a program now and you're
helping people.
I'd like to hear about that, youknow.
Um, this is something that to mewe have all these people that
come around and share theirstories and they they had this
experience or they have thatprogram or business or product
(20:50):
or whatever, but how it worksand how people come to you and
the transformative element ofthat, I'd really like to hear
about that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
So I mainly work with uh people in the business
world.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
And so I mean, I I should all I should also clarify
that by saying I work withpeople of all of all, you know,
all from all across allindustries.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
And so I will work with charitable organizations
and I will work with top-levelCEOs, and I'll work with people
in the in the tech space,because these communication
skills are completelytransferable across every
imaginable situation.
I work with authors, I work withactors, I work with sports
figures, I work with you, I meanyou name it, and I've worked
(21:39):
with them.
And and here's why they come tome.
They come to me for a number ofdifferent reasons.
Maybe they've they've gotten anew job that's very high
profile, and they know now thatthe words that they say and and
and and what how they appear isgoing to deeply affect the
(21:59):
reputation of the company thatthey work for, that they are the
spokesperson.
Or they may come to me becausethey don't have the confidence
to do something that involvesthem either getting on a stage
or making a lot ofpresentations, or maybe doing
podcasts, or or uh they're theythey're put into a position now
(22:20):
where they have to be much moreum much more of a of a speaker.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Maybe there's somebody who's now going to get
a lot of media attention,they're going to be doing
interviews, that sort of thing.
Uh it's and or maybe it's peoplethat are going back to work and
haven't worked for a long time.
I get a I've I've worked with alot of of moms who stayed at
home for a while.
Now they're going back to theworkplace and they they don't
feel confident.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
So now you're dealing with a lot more of that
since COVID and all the peoplekind of working from home or not
working or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
It is.
And this whole thing of workingfrom home, that's inspired a lot
of people who don't feel asconfident now when they're going
into an office.
So that's a whole other thing.
And I also, because I was doingZoom calls and things long
before we actually had COVID,because I was doing a lot of
international stuff where travelwasn't sometimes didn't work.
(23:13):
Sure.
Actually, I actually had a headstart on Zooms and Google Meets
and all that stuff long beforeit became um a verb.
Um so what I do with people is Ihelp them understand what it is
that's causing kind of theirstuckness or causing their um
(23:37):
what what what is it what'stheir goal?
Where do they want to get andwhy do they need help getting
there?
And then through uh then I thenI I highly customize all of my
programming because it has tobe.
Everybody's an individual, andwhat may be may be a big fear
for one person is not a fear foranother, but they've got
(23:59):
something else that they needhelp with.
And so we do a lot of work inparamount, yeah, is who are we?
It's you know, there's threecore parts of it.
One is who's our audience, whoare we talking to, where are we
carrying our message?
Uh do how well do we know them?
What do we need to know aboutthem?
How are we going to resonatewith them?
(24:20):
Then two, what are we actuallysaying and what's the key
message that we have for theworld?
Um, and usually there's onebottom line message that we're
carrying forth.
So how are we going to deliverthem or how are we going to we
got to help create that messagein a way where it's easily
understood?
And then um, and then it's howare we delivering it, which gets
(24:43):
into the body language.
So, you know, first who am Italking to?
What am I saying, and how am Isaying it?
And I take a lot of what I dofrom the guy considered the
father of communications, who isAristotle.
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, and Aristotle, and that long time ago, okay,
long time ago.
And so yeah, and it's still thesame stuff.
So he had um ethos or um, can Itrust you?
Uh-huh.
You the expert, can I trust you?
Which is important, you know,important in business.
Business is basically we want tobe, we want to work with
(25:16):
somebody we trust and we want tolike them.
So it's possibility.
Then the second part is logos orlogic.
Are you explaining it in a way Ican understand?
Is it reasonable?
Is it logical?
And then the third part ispathos or pathos, which is
emotions.
Because in everything that wedo, we're either trying to
(25:39):
provide information, persuadesomebody, uh, um, entertain
them, whatever it is we'retrying to do in that
conversation, thatcommunication, then we have to
think about the emotions thatare needed to be able to relate
to that human being.
So now so those are the thingsthat we work on.
(26:01):
I use a lot of video, I recordpeople, nice, and we pay play it
back and we talk about what theyand I I they were partners.
I'm not sitting there going,well, this is what you did
wrong.
And here I you tell me what youthink of that video because our
perception of ourselves is awhole lot different than the
(26:24):
other way people perceive us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
I think that's powerful.
I mean, if you look at you know,public speakers and the the
tools that many of them talkabout, it's it's practicing and
reviewing and looking atyourself and being honest and
listening to yourself.
And it's kind of hard to do.
Like, I know when I startedspeaking in public, you know,
(26:48):
people would say, Well, you'redoing pretty good, but you're
always looking up in the air, oryou're you know, you you're
uming too much or whatever.
And then I'm like, Okay, Ibetter just start listening to
myself, and then you do, andyou're like, Oh, all right, I
can see that.
And and if you're honest, you'relike, that's a solvable problem.
I can just practice my waythrough that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
It all is, yeah, and that's why I'm saying take the
phones and record yourself,right?
So then, so record yourself justtelling a story, or maybe maybe
you do have a presentation ofsome sort, record for the first
five minutes of it now.
Listen, then listen to it.
The first time you listen to it,I want you to do it with your
(27:28):
eyes closed.
Okay.
So now all you're doing ishearing it.
How does it sound?
What are the words that you'reare you are you emphasizing the
right words?
Is the message clear?
Are you what are you feelingfrom it?
Then the second time, look at itwith the sound off and just your
(27:49):
body.
SPEAKER_00 (27:50):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
And then so now you're seeing how is what are my
facial expressions like?
What's my eye contact like?
Am I smiling?
Am I frowning?
Am I emphasizing well?
Then look at the full thing.
Nice.
And but but there's one problem,which is we're all way too
self-critical.
Absolutely.
So now you're gonna you'vewritten down 15 things and
(28:13):
you're going, ah, I give up.
SPEAKER_00 (28:14):
Most people are never gonna pay that much
attention.
Well, you'd be surprised.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Well, subconsciously they certainly will, but but
yeah, so so what so then what Iwant you to do is pick out one
thing, the one thing thatbothered you the most, or the
one thing that you think wouldreally help.
And for the next two weeks,you're gonna work on that one
thing.
Okay, be it the ums.
I'm saying, um, I'm using thatfiller word.
(28:41):
Now I'm gonna figure out how amI going to stop doing the um.
And once you're aware of it, youstop pretty quickly.
But it's also it's also twoother things factor in one, we
usually use those words whenwe're not well prepared.
And secondly, we use them tofill dead air.
So instead pause.
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
Right.
Pause is worth a hundred badwords.
SPEAKER_01 (29:07):
Exactly.
So now, so now you've you'veyou've maybe you cu you cured
the filler word problem.
Now do it again two weeks later.
And now you pick out somethingelse and you say, Oh, I have no
eye contact.
Just like you said that peoplelooked at the that told you you
looked up all the time.
They say eye contact.
So what am I gonna do?
(29:28):
Okay, so now how how how do Ihow do I make sure I'm doing a
better job of that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
And and why am I not looking at people?
Am I afraid that they're gonnagive me ugly looks that they're
not gonna be listening?
So now you just start looking atyour audience.
I divide if I'm in a a room withmore than like five people, I
divide it into three pieces,slices of pizza, and I look at
one side, then I look at themiddle, and I look at the other
(29:54):
side, and then I look atindividuals.
But I'm just making sure that Igot good eye contact.
Okay, so now you solve twoproblems, right?
So, and as you go along, you getbetter and better and more
confident.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Comfortable, yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
Well, listen, we're getting alittle low on time.
I really like to hear a um anexample of one of the people
you've worked with that youthought was maybe really
transformative or impactful insome personal way.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Well, most of the people I work with, I do not
give out their names.
Oh no, we don't need names, justjust so what I particularly love
is when there's an aha moment.
Nice.
So I remember uh once I wasworking with this uh this man
who worked for an insurancecompany, and talking about
(30:51):
insurance at a presentation cansometimes be incredibly boring.
SPEAKER_00 (30:55):
I would imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
So he was doing this presentation and he'd done it
two or three or four times, andhe kept saying, It's not getting
any better.
I said, Okay, I want you to dosomething different.
And he said, What?
I said, What's your favorite?
What do you like to do outsideof work?
And he said, play golf.
I said, Okay, I want you to tellme the story, which I recorded
(31:20):
of the last time that you hadyour best round of golf.
Okay, why?
And so he did.
And he's like, Oh, it was thisbeautiful sunny day.
I was playing with my bestfriend, and I and I hadn't been
able to hit my pitching wedge.
We got up to this.
He said, I had this, I had thisdrive that was the longest drive
(31:40):
I've ever had.
And then I knew all I had was apitching wedge.
And he gets into this whole longthing about the pitching wedge,
and and he said, and I looked atit and I thought, I am gonna get
this thing to the hole.
And it got landed about justabout two inches from the hole.
Wow, and that went right in.
And he goes, I birdied the hole,and he said this.
(32:03):
I said, Okay, you heard thatemotion that you just had in
that?
And he goes, Yep.
And I said, Why don't you thinkabout a story about somebody
within your insurance, someeither client that you've helped
or a problem that you solved,put that in the presentation and
let's try this again.
So he thought for a few minutesand he put a story into the
(32:26):
presentation, and the wholething became interesting and
dynamic.
And by the way, about 10 minutesshorter.
And it was so good.
I got oh my god, that that I I Inever thought I could do that
presentation.
So think about that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:47):
I love it, love it, love it.
Well, Jane, I this has beenriveting.
I I I wasn't sure, you know,walking into this.
We've misfired three timestrying to get together.
I'm like, all right, well,hopefully this time.
And um I this has just been anabsolutely riveting
conversation.
So if you could wrap up yourthoughts and and deliver your
(33:09):
you know, 20-second elevatorpitch to somebody, what would
you what would you tell ourlisteners?
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
I would tell them that every part of life, whether
it's you making a presentationto the chairman of the board of
the biggest company in theworld, or talking to your
five-year-old, all of life isjust a conversation.
And so make sure that you arehaving the best conversation you
can with whomever you aretalking to.
(33:35):
Listen well, don't jump in andbe really truly present.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
I love it.
That is some wisdom right there.
Well, as always, I always try togive our guests an opportunity
to connect with the listeners.
And I know you're probablypretty well booked in in fancy
uh New York City and all thatgood stuff.
However, um, if somebody doeswant to reach out and and engage
(34:02):
you, how would they get a holdof you?
SPEAKER_01 (34:05):
Well, it's pretty easy, and by the way, I travel
almost anywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
Oh, beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
Um, so I have a website, janehanson,
h-a-n-s-o-n.com.
And my email that goes alongwith that website is jane at
janehanson.com.
It's really, really simple.
And I love talking to people andI love working with anybody.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Beautiful.
Well, you're providing a verynecessary service.
If you're ever in SouthernCalifornia, I'd love to meet up
with you and uh have anotherconversation.
Um, it's been an absolutepleasure.
I want to thank you for joiningthe show and uh certainly
welcome you back anytime uh itstrikes your fancy.
SPEAKER_01 (34:45):
Joe, thank you so much.
I had a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
Beautiful.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grombine.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners for making this
possible, and we will see younext time.
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