September 3, 2025 • 25 mins
The journey with sacred plant medicines rarely follows a straight path. After four decades of cannabis use—from teenage experimentation to activist battles with the government—I've discovered something profound: true healing emerges when we approach these powerful allies with reverence.
My first real connection with cannabis wasn't through consumption but through cultivation. As a 12-year-old tending a secret plant in my father's greenhouse, I developed a relationship that transcended recreation. Though that first plant met an untimely end, it sparked a lifelong exploration of ethnobotanicals—from kratom and kanna to the potent DMT extracted from mimosa hostilis. Throughout these explorations, I've learned that sacredness isn't limited to plants; it extends to minerals, animal-derived compounds, and even elements like sunlight when approached as medicine.
What transforms any substance from potentially harmful to deeply healing is intention. The coca plant—demonized in its refined cocaine form—provides gentle, nutritive medicine when used traditionally. Cannabis can relieve cancer-related symptoms or trigger anxiety, depending on one's approach. During my darkest moments battling cancer, this plant "spoke" to me in ways I'd never experienced despite our long history together. This spiritual connection revealed something crucial: we're working with living teachers, not mere substances. When we recognize the sacred nature of these medicines, we tap into healing that extends beyond the physical—connecting us to the creative force flowing through all things, whatever name we give it. The most powerful medicine isn't found in the plant itself, but in our relationship with it.
Ready to explore the sacred dimension of plant medicines? Listen now and discover how intention transforms everything.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we're going to have a
conversation about sacredmedicines.
And you know, just like so manythings, there are practices
that are potentially reallypositive for people's health,
(00:27):
that go back maybe all the wayinto history, and they have
awakenings that happen from timeto time.
And I believe that you know,right now we're in sort of a
crazy time, but you know we'vealways been in a crazy time.
Now we're in sort of a crazytime, but you know we've always
(00:47):
been in a crazy time, but youknow, spiritual wellness,
retreats, plant medicines, uh,indigenous practices these are
all very in vogue in a lot ofways, and there are people that
are profiting from it,capitalizing on it, becoming
(01:08):
quote, famous for it, whateverall these things.
And so be it right.
I mean, it always has happened,it'll always happen.
But I want to talk about thesacred element of medicines and
what makes that different fromthe latest thing, and we're
(01:33):
going to talk about intentions.
We're going to talk about howwe treat things.
We're going to talk about whatwe're actually doing.
What we're trying to actuallydo.
My experience with sacredmedicines goes back, I would
have to say to probably about1980, maybe 78, I guess, or 70,
(02:00):
yeah, 77, 78.
I was just a kid and I triedcannabis for the first time and
that was my first experiencewith the sacred plant medicine.
I didn't consider it to besacred at the time.
In fact I didn't really knowanything about what I was doing.
(02:21):
I was influenced by a friend.
Anything about what I was doing, I was influenced by a friend.
It seemed all right, it seemedfun, I tried it.
I didn't really get a whole lotfrom it, but over the next few
years I dabbled here and thereand became connected with the
(02:41):
plant.
But really the first time Ireally connected with the plant
was, I would have to say it wasprobably about maybe 1982, and I
had some tie stick that I hadgotten and and you know that was
(03:02):
a pretty important piece of thepuzzle back then.
You know, if you could getahold of some tie stick back
then, that was some a goodexperience.
And of course, like most of thepot back in those days, it had
seeds in it and I planted myfirst seed, and so it wasn't so
(03:25):
much with the imbibing of themedicine that I connected with
this plant, it was actuallygrowing it and I can remember,
as I don't know what was I 13years old, maybe 12, 13?
(03:46):
I remember connecting with thislittle plant and we had this
little greenhouse that my dadnever really went in and I
planted it in there and overtime it grew up.
I didn't know what I was doing,I just had it in a little pot
and basically just watered it,but spent time with it and
connected with it and it was aplant that I would go out and
(04:09):
visit every day and share myenergy with.
Now, I wasn't doing that withintention, because I had no idea
what it was.
I was a 12-year-old kid, but insome way, shape or form, the
plant connected with me on adeeper level and I felt drawn to
the plant and I never even gota chance to harvest it or smoke
(04:31):
it.
My dad ended up finding it andkilling it and, um, kind of
broke my heart a little bit.
But I planted another plantanother spot in the yard.
We had a pretty big backyardand a lot of hiding places and
the next plant I grew turned outto be male and I didn't know
anything about, you know, maleand female plants back then.
(04:52):
I mean, this is.
You know, early 80s therewasn't all the information there
is today.
There was no youtube, there wasno computers, there was no
internet, none of that.
There was, you know, a coupleof books here and there, and I
think Ed Rosenthal was a bigdeal back then.
But over time I learned andeventually found a mentor and
(05:15):
learned how to really grow andgot some good genetics and
walked down that road and duringthat time I experimented with a
lot of different things.
And when I talk about sacredmedicines, I'm not just talking
about plants.
You know there are mineralsinvolved in some medicines,
there's animals involved in somemedicines.
(05:37):
It's not the sacredness of acompound, isn't specific to it
being a plant, and I know I workwith a lot of plants.
For a lot of reasons.
I make products with plants andI think plants are a very
amazing way that God putstogether compounds in a way that
(06:02):
we can use them, and so I amextremely prejudiced towards
plants.
I love plants.
I have a botanical garden.
I work with plants on many, manylevels, but I don't hold them
in higher regard than I do otherthings, for example.
You know, for example, you knowsunlight, minerals, animals and
(06:38):
other ways that we can find,harvest, prepare medicines that
can help us to heal.
I dabbled around with justabout every drug you can imagine
, even did a little laudanumback in my day, which is an
opiate tincture.
Enough to know that I needed tokeep away from that because it
was just too darn lovely.
And you know there's a lot ofplant medicines that can be
deadly, and I think that's oneof the reasons why dealing with
(07:03):
the sacred aspect of it is soimportant, because when we lose
sight of that, we can takesomething that is powerful and
could and should and often isused for good, but it can also
cause harm without the thought,without the care, without the
(07:24):
love, without the respect,without the love, without the
respect, without the sacredelement being recognized.
And even pot, even cannabis,can be debilitating to some
people.
It can be devastating, it cancause problems and I never
wanted to see that.
You know, if anybody knows me,I've been a cannabis activist
(07:46):
for 20 years.
I've been locked up for mysupport of cannabis medicine and
helping people.
More than a few times I wentthrough a six-year battle with
the government.
I stood my ground, I fought forthis plant and you know I
continue to do that on somelevel, but not in the same way
(08:09):
that I used to, and partlybecause I realize some things
that you know.
We hold sometimes things insuch high regard that we think
they can do no harm, and we tellourselves that and we believe
it.
But the truth is anything cancause harm in the wrong hands,
(08:30):
when it's not respected, whenit's abused and abuse is a word
that you know we can do withjust about any any subject.
You know if you, you can abusewater to the point where you die
from it.
So if you can do that, anyplant that has any possible
toxicity level to it couldcertainly be harmful in the
(08:52):
wrong hands, with the wrongintention, in the wrong way.
So that's part of what I wantto really make sure we address,
as we're looking at the sacredside of things.
There are plants that peopleconsider to be, you know,
problematic, like the coca plant.
You know cocaine and all of theproblems that it causes.
(09:15):
But coca plant's a sacred plantif used correctly, in the right
hands, in the right way.
There's a medicine that is madeout of the leaf and you know
it's used as a like a dip.
You put it in your mouth andand just kind of suck on it and
it can give you, um, not acocaine high at all, but a more
(09:41):
of like a vitamin, um, cleansingenergetic level of of medicine
that is so different from thechaotic, just wild energy that
cocaine has when it's refineddown to its pure form.
(10:02):
A lot of the things that plantsbring is a double edge.
You know a lot ofethnobotanical plants, which is
a term that used to be used alot more.
I don't know, I don't hear thatterm very much anymore.
I guess back in the 90s, early2000s, I was working with a guy,
(10:39):
what we used to call FarmerHank, and he collected
ethnobotanical seeds and whatthese are are different plants
that are used historically byindigenous people in various
areas all around the world, andthere's hundreds and hundreds of
these plants.
I used to I have a plant bookcalled Plants of the Gods or
Food of the Gods, and it's, youknow, a story of a number of
(10:59):
different ethnobotanical plantsand what we find is that all
around the world, differentcultures have connected with the
energies of different plantsand they've learned how to make
extracts and to deal with these.
A lot of plants will havemultiple compounds in their
(11:22):
whole form and they'll havemaybe a chemical compound that
connects with certain receptorsin your brain or causes you to
feel or behave a certain way.
But also that same plant mayhave certain alkaloids that can
be very toxic, and often there'sa preparation that's necessary,
(11:46):
whether it's, you know, chewingthis plant with that mineral,
or cooking it a certain way, orblending it with other herbs or
plants, or there's just so manydifferent ways that things need
to be prepared in some cases.
And like, for example, I met aguy.
(12:06):
And like, for example, I met aguy this isn't all that long ago
, maybe about 15 years ago or sothat was making DMT out of
mimosa hostilis root and hetaught me how to do it.
(12:41):
I didn't really take good notesbecause I thought we were going
to work together for years.
I had a pretty powerful coupleof experiences with it, but I
can't say that I I treated it ina sacred way, more of like a
science experiment, more of anexploration, if you will.
And you know, in my life I'vebeen an explorer, I've been a
(13:07):
curious individual and I'd liketo see what happens when you do
certain things, and so I've usedmyself as a science experiment
in many ways, and sometimesputting a spiritual element to
it, other times not so much justseeing what happens for the
sake of seeing what happens.
And I believe he approached itfrom a more reverent position
(13:32):
than I did at the time.
But I followed his lead.
I did what he did, how he didit, and got a really powerful
experience from it and felt thatit was transformative in some
way.
But again, I wasn't purposelyconnecting with spirit that way.
(13:52):
I wasn't seeking to get closerto my creator or nature or any
other thing like that, assometimes we do.
Later on the guy turned out tobe a dick and just disappeared
and got upset over some stupidthing and I said, well, I'm
(14:15):
probably not going to make thatmedicine anymore because it was
connected to that.
And even though I'm not callingmyself any kind of a shaman or a
medicine man or anything likethat, I'm a tinkerer is what I
call myself.
I make things that help peoplein the best way I can.
I make my own medicine.
(14:35):
I do things I work on myself,basically, and if I help other
people, I do, but I don't runceremonies or anything like that
.
That's not to say that Ihaven't and can't and that sort
of thing.
It's just not my.
It's not my place in this worldright now and with these
(15:01):
ethnobotanicals there were manyof them.
I remember back in the time Imean this is again, again almost
over 25 years ago I was workingwith this guy that was bringing
kratom in and nobody knew aboutkratom and we were working with
a herb called canna and lion'stail and Syrian rue and all
(15:21):
these different plants.
And I remember at the time Isaw a movie I can't remember
what it was called EmeraldForest or something, and it was
about ayahuasca.
And you know, this is againalmost 30 years ago and it was a
story about a guy who went intothe jungle and worked with some
(15:42):
medicine people and hisexperience with ayahuasca was
done as some kind of a snuff andthey shoot it up your nose and,
uh, how he became the forest.
And it was a very interestingstory and caused me to be
interested in in the power ofsome of these medicines.
(16:04):
Now, I've never done ayahuascato this day.
My wife has, but if and when itcalls to me, I will look at it.
But that's part of what thisconversation is about.
It's always been a veryrecreational plant, but it's
(16:26):
also in its recreation is wherethe medicine can be.
Sometimes you know medicine ina plant can be, you know, a
(16:51):
powerful psychedelic experiencewhere you see things that either
aren't really there or arethere and we normally can't see
them.
Or you experience, you know,sounds on a different level,
light, all these differentsensory experiences, or they can
just be very internal,meditative, message oriented
experience, or they can just bevery relaxing or very uplifting
or very contemplative, andcannabis can tap into all those
things and at the same time ithas some powerful medicinal
(17:15):
properties at its fingertips.
It can attack cancer cells, itcan cause sleep to be easily had
.
It can vanquish anxiety, stress, fears, but it can also bring
them.
It can cause you to have anappetite when you struggle to
(17:36):
have one.
It can relieve nausea.
For me going through my cancerexperience, that's been a tool
that I've been using as a verymedicinal experience.
A couple little hits and thenausea and lack of appetite can
(17:58):
be diminished and turn around sothat I can eat a decent meal
and keep my weight strong.
These are all very powerfulexperiences.
But today, you know, I spent 40years playing with this plant
and 25 years now probably about35 years making medicine with
(18:19):
the plant.
At the same time no-transcriptseeing it in the same sacred
light that I do today.
Let's just say that.
(18:40):
But when I went through thedarkest time, as I was literally
on my deathbed with this cancer, and as I began to turn it
around and see the light again,see that I had a chance and see
that I was gonna, I wasultimately gonna win um, I saw,
(19:04):
I connected with the sacred sideof it and it spoke to me in a
way that spirits can speak toyou, and it said you know I can
help you.
And I was whoa, you're right,and and and so for the last
maybe four or five months, I'vehad a different relationship
with this plant and we have along history and we have a good
(19:29):
history.
But I also had a littleheartbreak and it wasn't able to
help me with some things that Ithought it would, and I had to
overcome that.
And now I've connected with itin in a, in a spirit way that I
see that it's it's.
Things aren't necessarily goodor bad.
It has a lot to do with yourintention and how you're
(19:53):
connecting with the thing thatbrings out the good and bad as
it applies to you.
That brings out the good andbad as it applies to you.
As I said, I've dabbled withmost compounds out there in some
(20:15):
way shape or form and Irecognize that there are some
compounds that are so powerfulthat I just need to keep them at
arm's reach because I don'tknow how to work with them in a
sacred way and I don't know thatI want to.
The addictive nature of somethings are very difficult.
I've recently re-established arelationship with tobacco.
(20:36):
Now, tobacco is a very, verysacred plant and it's also very,
very abused and it's also very,very potentially dangerous to a
lot of people when and ifabused.
But if you work with the sacredside of it, in the sense of you
(20:57):
work with its true spirit, withreverence and in a sacred way, I
it's been used historically, umto carry a prayer.
You know we we're human beingsand and you know it's funny I
have a lot of people in my lifethat I've shared pretty deep
(21:19):
experiences with that arespiritual and vulnerable and my
connection to God or source orspirit or creator, whatever,
jesus, you know all the waysthat that we express our human
experience of something that isnot human, or even of this world
(21:46):
, for that matter.
We live this three-dimensional,low-vibrational life and even
the best of us are just animalsand we've got to really be
honest about that.
You know, if you think aboutthe nature of things in the
(22:08):
universe and the creative powerthat is moving things, and again
you can believe what you want.
We all will do that.
But I believe there's acreative force in this universe
that causes everything to happenin a way that I'll never
(22:28):
probably understand, and for meto be stuck holding a name or a
face or a picture or an image ora set of words that applies to
everything as the be-all andend-all, in my opinion is
limiting, and I know for many,many people it's good, it's
(22:53):
enough, and I suppose it couldbe enough for me as well.
But I believe in really theunlimited potential of the human
experience.
I believe we have inside of usthe very particles that create a
force and that we have insideof us the ability to connect and
(23:15):
become or be or use or expressthat part of us if we figure out
or
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we're going to have a
conversation about sacredmedicines.
And you know, just like so manythings, there are practices
that are potentially reallypositive for people's health,
(00:27):
that go back maybe all the wayinto history, and they have
awakenings that happen from timeto time.
And I believe that you know,right now we're in sort of a
crazy time, but you know we'vealways been in a crazy time.
Now we're in sort of a crazytime, but you know we've always
(00:47):
been in a crazy time, but youknow, spiritual wellness,
retreats, plant medicines, uh,indigenous practices these are
all very in vogue in a lot ofways, and there are people that
are profiting from it,capitalizing on it, becoming
(01:08):
quote, famous for it, whateverall these things.
And so be it right.
I mean, it always has happened,it'll always happen.
But I want to talk about thesacred element of medicines and
what makes that different fromthe latest thing, and we're
(01:33):
going to talk about intentions.
We're going to talk about howwe treat things.
We're going to talk about whatwe're actually doing.
What we're trying to actuallydo.
My experience with sacredmedicines goes back, I would
have to say to probably about1980, maybe 78, I guess, or 70,
(02:00):
yeah, 77, 78.
I was just a kid and I triedcannabis for the first time and
that was my first experiencewith the sacred plant medicine.
I didn't consider it to besacred at the time.
In fact I didn't really knowanything about what I was doing.
(02:21):
I was influenced by a friend.
Anything about what I was doing, I was influenced by a friend.
It seemed all right, it seemedfun, I tried it.
I didn't really get a whole lotfrom it, but over the next few
years I dabbled here and thereand became connected with the
(02:41):
plant.
But really the first time Ireally connected with the plant
was, I would have to say it wasprobably about maybe 1982, and I
had some tie stick that I hadgotten and and you know that was
(03:02):
a pretty important piece of thepuzzle back then.
You know, if you could getahold of some tie stick back
then, that was some a goodexperience.
And of course, like most of thepot back in those days, it had
seeds in it and I planted myfirst seed, and so it wasn't so
(03:25):
much with the imbibing of themedicine that I connected with
this plant, it was actuallygrowing it and I can remember,
as I don't know what was I 13years old, maybe 12, 13?
(03:46):
I remember connecting with thislittle plant and we had this
little greenhouse that my dadnever really went in and I
planted it in there and overtime it grew up.
I didn't know what I was doing,I just had it in a little pot
and basically just watered it,but spent time with it and
connected with it and it was aplant that I would go out and
(04:09):
visit every day and share myenergy with.
Now, I wasn't doing that withintention, because I had no idea
what it was.
I was a 12-year-old kid, but insome way, shape or form, the
plant connected with me on adeeper level and I felt drawn to
the plant and I never even gota chance to harvest it or smoke
(04:31):
it.
My dad ended up finding it andkilling it and, um, kind of
broke my heart a little bit.
But I planted another plantanother spot in the yard.
We had a pretty big backyardand a lot of hiding places and
the next plant I grew turned outto be male and I didn't know
anything about, you know, maleand female plants back then.
(04:52):
I mean, this is.
You know, early 80s therewasn't all the information there
is today.
There was no youtube, there wasno computers, there was no
internet, none of that.
There was, you know, a coupleof books here and there, and I
think Ed Rosenthal was a bigdeal back then.
But over time I learned andeventually found a mentor and
(05:15):
learned how to really grow andgot some good genetics and
walked down that road and duringthat time I experimented with a
lot of different things.
And when I talk about sacredmedicines, I'm not just talking
about plants.
You know there are mineralsinvolved in some medicines,
there's animals involved in somemedicines.
(05:37):
It's not the sacredness of acompound, isn't specific to it
being a plant, and I know I workwith a lot of plants.
For a lot of reasons.
I make products with plants andI think plants are a very
amazing way that God putstogether compounds in a way that
(06:02):
we can use them, and so I amextremely prejudiced towards
plants.
I love plants.
I have a botanical garden.
I work with plants on many, manylevels, but I don't hold them
in higher regard than I do otherthings, for example.
You know, for example, you knowsunlight, minerals, animals and
(06:38):
other ways that we can find,harvest, prepare medicines that
can help us to heal.
I dabbled around with justabout every drug you can imagine
, even did a little laudanumback in my day, which is an
opiate tincture.
Enough to know that I needed tokeep away from that because it
was just too darn lovely.
And you know there's a lot ofplant medicines that can be
deadly, and I think that's oneof the reasons why dealing with
(07:03):
the sacred aspect of it is soimportant, because when we lose
sight of that, we can takesomething that is powerful and
could and should and often isused for good, but it can also
cause harm without the thought,without the care, without the
(07:24):
love, without the respect,without the love, without the
respect, without the sacredelement being recognized.
And even pot, even cannabis,can be debilitating to some
people.
It can be devastating, it cancause problems and I never
wanted to see that.
You know, if anybody knows me,I've been a cannabis activist
(07:46):
for 20 years.
I've been locked up for mysupport of cannabis medicine and
helping people.
More than a few times I wentthrough a six-year battle with
the government.
I stood my ground, I fought forthis plant and you know I
continue to do that on somelevel, but not in the same way
(08:09):
that I used to, and partlybecause I realize some things
that you know.
We hold sometimes things insuch high regard that we think
they can do no harm, and we tellourselves that and we believe
it.
But the truth is anything cancause harm in the wrong hands,
(08:30):
when it's not respected, whenit's abused and abuse is a word
that you know we can do withjust about any any subject.
You know if you, you can abusewater to the point where you die
from it.
So if you can do that, anyplant that has any possible
toxicity level to it couldcertainly be harmful in the
(08:52):
wrong hands, with the wrongintention, in the wrong way.
So that's part of what I wantto really make sure we address,
as we're looking at the sacredside of things.
There are plants that peopleconsider to be, you know,
problematic, like the coca plant.
You know cocaine and all of theproblems that it causes.
(09:15):
But coca plant's a sacred plantif used correctly, in the right
hands, in the right way.
There's a medicine that is madeout of the leaf and you know
it's used as a like a dip.
You put it in your mouth andand just kind of suck on it and
it can give you, um, not acocaine high at all, but a more
(09:41):
of like a vitamin, um, cleansingenergetic level of of medicine
that is so different from thechaotic, just wild energy that
cocaine has when it's refineddown to its pure form.
(10:02):
A lot of the things that plantsbring is a double edge.
You know a lot ofethnobotanical plants, which is
a term that used to be used alot more.
I don't know, I don't hear thatterm very much anymore.
I guess back in the 90s, early2000s, I was working with a guy,
(10:39):
what we used to call FarmerHank, and he collected
ethnobotanical seeds and whatthese are are different plants
that are used historically byindigenous people in various
areas all around the world, andthere's hundreds and hundreds of
these plants.
I used to I have a plant bookcalled Plants of the Gods or
Food of the Gods, and it's, youknow, a story of a number of
(10:59):
different ethnobotanical plantsand what we find is that all
around the world, differentcultures have connected with the
energies of different plantsand they've learned how to make
extracts and to deal with these.
A lot of plants will havemultiple compounds in their
(11:22):
whole form and they'll havemaybe a chemical compound that
connects with certain receptorsin your brain or causes you to
feel or behave a certain way.
But also that same plant mayhave certain alkaloids that can
be very toxic, and often there'sa preparation that's necessary,
(11:46):
whether it's, you know, chewingthis plant with that mineral,
or cooking it a certain way, orblending it with other herbs or
plants, or there's just so manydifferent ways that things need
to be prepared in some cases.
And like, for example, I met aguy.
(12:06):
And like, for example, I met aguy this isn't all that long ago
, maybe about 15 years ago or sothat was making DMT out of
mimosa hostilis root and hetaught me how to do it.
(12:41):
I didn't really take good notesbecause I thought we were going
to work together for years.
I had a pretty powerful coupleof experiences with it, but I
can't say that I I treated it ina sacred way, more of like a
science experiment, more of anexploration, if you will.
And you know, in my life I'vebeen an explorer, I've been a
(13:07):
curious individual and I'd liketo see what happens when you do
certain things, and so I've usedmyself as a science experiment
in many ways, and sometimesputting a spiritual element to
it, other times not so much justseeing what happens for the
sake of seeing what happens.
And I believe he approached itfrom a more reverent position
(13:32):
than I did at the time.
But I followed his lead.
I did what he did, how he didit, and got a really powerful
experience from it and felt thatit was transformative in some
way.
But again, I wasn't purposelyconnecting with spirit that way.
(13:52):
I wasn't seeking to get closerto my creator or nature or any
other thing like that, assometimes we do.
Later on the guy turned out tobe a dick and just disappeared
and got upset over some stupidthing and I said, well, I'm
(14:15):
probably not going to make thatmedicine anymore because it was
connected to that.
And even though I'm not callingmyself any kind of a shaman or a
medicine man or anything likethat, I'm a tinkerer is what I
call myself.
I make things that help peoplein the best way I can.
I make my own medicine.
(14:35):
I do things I work on myself,basically, and if I help other
people, I do, but I don't runceremonies or anything like that
.
That's not to say that Ihaven't and can't and that sort
of thing.
It's just not my.
It's not my place in this worldright now and with these
(15:01):
ethnobotanicals there were manyof them.
I remember back in the time Imean this is again, again almost
over 25 years ago I was workingwith this guy that was bringing
kratom in and nobody knew aboutkratom and we were working with
a herb called canna and lion'stail and Syrian rue and all
(15:21):
these different plants.
And I remember at the time Isaw a movie I can't remember
what it was called EmeraldForest or something, and it was
about ayahuasca.
And you know, this is againalmost 30 years ago and it was a
story about a guy who went intothe jungle and worked with some
(15:42):
medicine people and hisexperience with ayahuasca was
done as some kind of a snuff andthey shoot it up your nose and,
uh, how he became the forest.
And it was a very interestingstory and caused me to be
interested in in the power ofsome of these medicines.
(16:04):
Now, I've never done ayahuascato this day.
My wife has, but if and when itcalls to me, I will look at it.
But that's part of what thisconversation is about.
It's always been a veryrecreational plant, but it's
(16:26):
also in its recreation is wherethe medicine can be.
Sometimes you know medicine ina plant can be, you know, a
(16:51):
powerful psychedelic experiencewhere you see things that either
aren't really there or arethere and we normally can't see
them.
Or you experience, you know,sounds on a different level,
light, all these differentsensory experiences, or they can
just be very internal,meditative, message oriented
experience, or they can just bevery relaxing or very uplifting
or very contemplative, andcannabis can tap into all those
things and at the same time ithas some powerful medicinal
(17:15):
properties at its fingertips.
It can attack cancer cells, itcan cause sleep to be easily had
.
It can vanquish anxiety, stress, fears, but it can also bring
them.
It can cause you to have anappetite when you struggle to
(17:36):
have one.
It can relieve nausea.
For me going through my cancerexperience, that's been a tool
that I've been using as a verymedicinal experience.
A couple little hits and thenausea and lack of appetite can
(17:58):
be diminished and turn around sothat I can eat a decent meal
and keep my weight strong.
These are all very powerfulexperiences.
But today, you know, I spent 40years playing with this plant
and 25 years now probably about35 years making medicine with
(18:19):
the plant.
At the same time no-transcriptseeing it in the same sacred
light that I do today.
Let's just say that.
(18:40):
But when I went through thedarkest time, as I was literally
on my deathbed with this cancer, and as I began to turn it
around and see the light again,see that I had a chance and see
that I was gonna, I wasultimately gonna win um, I saw,
(19:04):
I connected with the sacred sideof it and it spoke to me in a
way that spirits can speak toyou, and it said you know I can
help you.
And I was whoa, you're right,and and and so for the last
maybe four or five months, I'vehad a different relationship
with this plant and we have along history and we have a good
(19:29):
history.
But I also had a littleheartbreak and it wasn't able to
help me with some things that Ithought it would, and I had to
overcome that.
And now I've connected with itin in a, in a spirit way that I
see that it's it's.
Things aren't necessarily goodor bad.
It has a lot to do with yourintention and how you're
(19:53):
connecting with the thing thatbrings out the good and bad as
it applies to you.
That brings out the good andbad as it applies to you.
As I said, I've dabbled withmost compounds out there in some
(20:15):
way shape or form and Irecognize that there are some
compounds that are so powerfulthat I just need to keep them at
arm's reach because I don'tknow how to work with them in a
sacred way and I don't know thatI want to.
The addictive nature of somethings are very difficult.
I've recently re-established arelationship with tobacco.
(20:36):
Now, tobacco is a very, verysacred plant and it's also very,
very abused and it's also very,very potentially dangerous to a
lot of people when and ifabused.
But if you work with the sacredside of it, in the sense of you
(20:57):
work with its true spirit, withreverence and in a sacred way, I
it's been used historically, umto carry a prayer.
You know we we're human beingsand and you know it's funny I
have a lot of people in my lifethat I've shared pretty deep
(21:19):
experiences with that arespiritual and vulnerable and my
connection to God or source orspirit or creator, whatever,
jesus, you know all the waysthat that we express our human
experience of something that isnot human, or even of this world
(21:46):
, for that matter.
We live this three-dimensional,low-vibrational life and even
the best of us are just animalsand we've got to really be
honest about that.
You know, if you think aboutthe nature of things in the
(22:08):
universe and the creative powerthat is moving things, and again
you can believe what you want.
We all will do that.
But I believe there's acreative force in this universe
that causes everything to happenin a way that I'll never
(22:28):
probably understand, and for meto be stuck holding a name or a
face or a picture or an image ora set of words that applies to
everything as the be-all andend-all, in my opinion is
limiting, and I know for many,many people it's good, it's
(22:53):
enough, and I suppose it couldbe enough for me as well.
But I believe in really theunlimited potential of the human
experience.
I believe we have inside of usthe very particles that create a
force and that we have insideof us the ability to connect and
(23:15):
become or be or use or expressthat part of us if we figure out
or
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