July 14, 2025 • 38 mins
What if your persistent illness has a spiritual cause that Western medicine can't detect? Dr. Ibrahim Jaffe, both a licensed physician and Sufi spiritual teacher, believes most chronic conditions have roots beyond the physical body - and he's helped over 50,000 people worldwide prove it.
On this illuminating episode, Dr. Jaffe explains how modern medicine has become increasingly algorithm-driven, with doctors following rigid protocols that treat symptoms rather than seeking true cures. "Medicine today is not curative," he observes. "It really just prolongs and kind of protects a little bit, but it doesn't ever cure, or very rarely."
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Dr. Jaffe shares his journey into spiritual healing, beginning with a profound experience in medical school involving a dying teenage girl and Orthodox rabbis using an ancient healing ritual with doves. This pivotal moment launched his exploration of the spiritual dimensions of illness.
Through compelling case studies, Dr. Jaffe demonstrates how diseases manifest as physical expressions of spiritual disconnections. "Most breast cancer is about betrayal of love," he explains, while sharing the remarkable story of a woman with end-stage heart failure whose condition stemmed from spiritual betrayal and anger toward God. After resolving these deep wounds, her enlarged heart returned to normal size within weeks.
Dr. Jaffe's approach doesn't reject conventional medicine but enhances it by addressing what's happening at the soul level. He teaches patients and practitioners to look beyond symptoms to find the spiritual qualities being thwarted - whether it's love, compassion, or divine connection. When these spiritual blockages are resolved, profound physical healing often follows.
Ready to explore the spiritual dimensions of your health challenges? Visit SufiUniversity.org or InstituteofSpiritualHealing.com to learn more about Dr. Jaffe's groundbreaking work and discover how spiritual healing might complement your medical treatment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
His name is Dr Ibrahim Jaffe.
He's an MD, a licensed medicaldoctor and a world-renowned
spiritual teacher.
He pioneered the field ofmedical spiritual healing, a
deeply integrative approach thataddresses the root of physical,
(00:24):
emotional and spiritual illness.
He bridges Western medicinewith Sufi spiritual wisdom.
Dr Jaffe has helped over 50,000people worldwide, including
celebrities, ceos and even thoseon the brink of death, heal
chronic conditions, awaken theirhearts and transform their
lives.
And Dr Jaffe, that's prettyimpressive.
(00:52):
I am looking forward to ourconversation.
It seems that we have a lot incommon of especially combining
the notions of Western medicineand spirituality and herbalism
and all of these things to findanswers.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm happy to be here and glad to talk about these
things.
It needs to go out for ourpatients, or everybody, so they
have the best chance to heal.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I agree, as we just had a brief conversation.
I've been mired in Westernmedicine recently, with all
these oncologists and all thesedifferent doctors trying to tell
me what they think I should do,and it's interesting because
I've become my own advocate,I've become my own expert and I
(01:39):
believe that I'm the world'sforemost expert on the cancer
that I have, and because it'severything so unique and as a
physician, my experience hasalways been my dad was a surgeon
, so I grew up in the medicalworld and physicians have this
training that they receive andthen they practice what they are
(02:01):
trained and they haveinfluences of pharmaceutical
companies and the schools thatthey are taught by and their
funders and all of that, andthey seldom stray from their
lessons and every once in awhile you'll find somebody who
has an integrative approach andthey welcome additional
(02:25):
resources and and ideas and itseems that that's where you're
coming from yeah, I think I meanmedicine has changed a lot in
the past 20 years.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I I got my degree 1983, okay, and um, you know.
So the the changes are, it'sbecome much more controlled.
So as a doctor, you have tofollow certain algorithms, right
, you know?
And if you don't, you will loseyour license or you'll get a
(02:59):
malpractice.
Right Standard of care.
Exactly, you got to do it andunfortunately, what it's done is
brought a lot of fear intodoctors, and then it's also
created a limitation whichallows, you know, the pharmacy
groups at Big Pharma to controlthe use of what we're doing.
(03:20):
And so as doctors we get stuckin that and it's very hard to
get out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, I understand the sort of the conundrum you know
and and yet I've found doctorsare people and sometimes a
doctor will take matters intohis own hands and decide that
you know, I'm going to do what'sright, as opposed to this thing
(03:47):
that they are going to try tomake me do.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Exactly, and I think that there's more and more of us
around like that.
But you know we take that riskbecause you're you know you're
risking your license and you'rerisking your practice and your
livelihood if you do it.
But I think those of us who youknow appreciate that.
As a patient, if I was apatient, I want the best chance
to live that I can get.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Heck yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't want someone telling me this is all you can
do, because I know there's a lotof other things that can help.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well, and really as a patient and really as a patient
you'll come to realize thatwith doctors have become so
specialized nowadays wherebefore there was a lot of
general practitioners andinternal medicine doctors and
sort of more broad rangingpractices, and nowadays
(04:40):
everything is really honed downto these little specifics and a
surgeon is just a surgeon.
And you know the medicaloncologist, she just does the
chemo.
And you know, everybody hastheir own little thing.
But when you start talking toall these different doctors,
you'll realize that they don'teven agree.
And one doctor will read out ofhis playbook and say, well, you
(05:02):
need surgery.
And the next doctor will say,well, if you get surgery, you're
going to be deformed and youneed radiation.
And the other doctor will say,well, I think you need chemo,
but we want radiation too.
And then you go to theintegrative guy and he's like
well, you know, there's thiswhole different approach that we
could go after.
And then you do your ownresearch and you come up with
(05:23):
answers.
I think that you know, thespecialization has really
changed things a lot, and maybenot for the better.
I mean in the better in someways, because you have people
that have gotten very skilled attheir craft.
You have surgeons that are justamazing, doing work that
couldn't have been done withrobots and nanoparticles and
(05:45):
things, but at the same time,you know, the human body is is a
miraculous machine on its ownand sometimes all it needs to be
is let heal itself, right?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I I'm with you 100 and and I agree with you that
there's enough discord amongspecialists that it's very hard
to get In medicine.
It's hard to get to the truthof what's best.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right.
Well, I think another thingthat I've discovered in Western
medicine is that it's verysymptomatic, it's not really
cure-based.
I mean, I don't think thatdoctors are really particularly
trying to cure you.
They're treating you and onceyou get into a doctor's care of
an illness, generally you justnever leave.
(06:35):
You're now in treatment forever.
It seems that maybe if we getto the root of things, we start
finding cures and maybe thewhole goal is to not need a
doctor anymore.
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
That's supposedly what we're supposed to be doing.
But I agree, Medicine today isnot curative.
It really just prolongs andkind of protects a little bit,
but it doesn't ever cure, orvery rarely.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And I don't even think they're trying to, or very
rarely and I don't even thinkthey're trying to.
I think it's about mitigatingquality of life problems and
keeping a thing from gettingworse or removing it.
They like to remove things alot.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's true.
But you know the other side ofit is that medicine does bring
so much good, you know,especially emergency care oh,
absolutely it's done so muchgood for people, especially
emergency care.
And oh, absolutely it's done somuch good for people asthma
that they have, you know there'sso many things that's treated
that people would really suffer.
So it's.
You know we're walking thatline between incredibly good but
then also not getting to theroot of why people are sick.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And that's one of the points I wanted to get into as
we start talking about some ofyour other practices is that one
of the things I've discoveredis that everything seems to have
a double edge to it, andthere's a benefit and there's
always a cost to pay, whetherit's a side effect or a cost or
some issue.
(07:59):
And I think just about everyelement of health has to come
with making choices that weighout, you know, the benefits
versus the cost.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, I don't know.
I just have a little bitdifferent philosophy, which is
every system of healing hasbenefit, sure, and there's
actually ways to figure outwhich system is going to work
for somebody.
So ideally, like when I'mworking with, I don't really
(08:37):
think about the cost so much.
What I think about is okay,what are the possibilities with
healing something?
And then I take it intoguidance and there's there's
different ways of reaching itand try to say, okay, when I
bring it into this place, thishappens.
When I bring it into adifferent place, something else
happens.
So I try to go through the, theoptions.
(08:58):
For example, uh, you know, saysomebody, I had a guy that just
had a parotid tumor, kind ofsimilar to what you were dealing
with, and he was looking at,you know, mexican clinics,
german clinics, austrian clinics, swiss clinics, you know all
different.
But when we really looked atthe guidance for there was only
maybe two clinics that reallymade a difference Okay, so we
(09:20):
were able to cut out all theother clinics and he ended up
going to a German clinic and hehad complete success.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's completely gone.
Nice, excellent, excellent.
Doing the research.
It makes a difference sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It makes a difference , and so I think, for your
listeners, we've got to first ofall understand that doctors
alone are socialized intothinking our way is the best.
It's not, but it has value.
So we don't want to cut it out,we don't want to throw it away,
sure, but we want to make surethat we don't get caught in the
(09:52):
quagmire of you know, our way isthe allopathic medicine is the
best way to go.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right or the only way to go, or the only way Exactly.
I'm very interested in hearingabout your Sufi practices, and I
don't know much about that.
I'd like to hear about whatthat is all about.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Okay.
Well, sufism is a spiritualpath.
It has to do.
I don't know if you know aboutRumi, and it's the same as
basically what Rumi teaches, buta little bit different.
It's about walking the heart toGod, so you're essentially
bringing your heart into God.
Realization, nice, okay, andthe whole system is based on
(10:35):
surrendering to divine will.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Wow, I've had to learn that one recently.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I bet you have.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It's a found way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, well, in Sufism we have practices that directly
put you into divine light,divine love, divine will, and
once you get there, you open upto the guidance that comes and
then you do the work that has tohappen.
So, let's say, you havesomebody with you know, breast
(11:06):
cancer is a common one.
If you went into the guidancewith God, you'd see that most
breast cancer is about betrayalof love.
Okay, in other words, thatsomething in the woman who has
breast cancer, she's either feltbetrayed, possibly she's
betrayed somebody, but there's a, there's a nature where love
(11:29):
got betrayed and that manifestsin the breast.
Interesting, yeah, thatfascinating and so not
surprising, though necessarilyno, because we're, you know, as
a culture where we've forgottenabout love.
You know we're, we don't loveanymore.
Right, you know.
And of course, for women, youknow you're not really valued
(11:50):
when you're deeply loving.
A lot of days it's you'revalued for how you look, or
you're valued for being a man orhow productive you are, but
you're not getting valued foryour core, which is your nature
of compassion and love, which iswhat women are all about.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I totally agree, and that makes a lot of sense.
So you become aware of thecause of the problem now.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Exactly.
You've got to get to the root.
Which the root problems are?
Either in the soul you have toget to the soul or they're in
the heart Right, and sometimesthey're in the emotions,
sometimes they're in thepsychology.
So there's different places.
You have to go to find what'sthe root.
Where does it live?
And every disease, you know, isconnected to a chakra, it's
(12:43):
connected to an energy center.
So there's clues, you know.
If you get a lung cancer or youhave something in your lung,
you know it's connected to yourthroat center and so it has to
do with expression or creationor some type of.
You know it's connected to yourthroat center and so it has to
do with expression or creationor some type of.
You know cancer is always abouta way that the natural movement
of the soul gets subjected to afalse reality and gets turned
(13:07):
away Right.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, I, like I said, I've recently become very aware
of what cancer is and isn't, andit turned out it wasn't much of
what I thought it was to beginwith, and I had my ideas about
things.
And then you come to experienceit and really seek to solve it
(13:30):
and you're like whoa, there's alot going on here that I did not
expect and, like you said, it'sa lot of internal work.
Um, just as much as the.
You know what I I always.
What I discovered was it's aspiritual healing, but you got
to do the work in the physicalrealm as well it's got to be
(13:51):
both you're.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You know're exactly right.
You've got to address it likeyou did.
Maybe allopathicallyconventional medicine, maybe you
do integrative medicine in someway which it sounds like you
did.
You did the herb?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Absolutely yeah, we used a little bit of everything,
yep.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's the best way to go about it every time, but
at the core of it, if you don'tget to the spiritual roots it's
going to, it would come back.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And I'm kind of curious.
I like to hear the stories thatyou know.
We've had some amazing gueststhat all come from these
different places and we all findourselves on this path of, of,
of healing and and wellness.
And how did you find thisSufism?
(14:36):
Is it something that youlearned at a young age or did
you discover it later on in life?
How did you find your way tothis?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, it's a long story, but I was always a healer
.
But, um, when I was in medicalschool, they had a.
A girl came in.
She was 17.
She was dying of acutehepatitis and I had her in the
(15:05):
ICU and, uh, she was running.
You know, she was unconscious,she was in coma, but her, she
was running.
You could see her legsconstantly running.
Wow.
So I was like what is sherunning from?
I couldn't quite figure it out.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So I was watching her the first 10, 15 minutes just
kind of watching her run in thebed.
And then, um, I decided to putmy stethoscope, you know, to
examine her, and I put thestethoscope and literally
something jumped out of.
It was like, oh, I mean it was.
I mean I had my eyes closed, butit was like a black lightning
bolt, wow it went into my handholding the stethoscope and then
(15:43):
it was like ice cold and itwent up my arm and I almost
passed out.
It was so and I realized that,you know, there were like hidden
things like this wasn't Right.
There is a spiritual realm andincredibly powerful, I mean, you
know.
So we tried to heal her.
(16:03):
You know she was in Chicago andwe talked to, you know,
university of Chicago, rush andUniversity of Illinois.
We're all trying to figure outhow to heal her and nobody could
figure it out.
So you know, we gave her thisback in 1983, we're giving her,
you know, large doses ofcortisone and, you know,
whatever antivirals we had atthe time, which were almost
(16:23):
nothing and she was dying.
So around that time, all of asudden the head of medicine was
contacted by the Jewishcommunity in Chicago and they
said that the, that this girlwas part of a Jewish school,
(16:46):
that they had had like fivedeaths of of weird diseases in
the school that year, and theneverything happened and they
were concerned, like was youknow what was going on.
So they asked the, they calledto uh Jerusalem, they spoke to
the head, uh Svartic, uh rabbi,he went into the Talmud and they
(17:08):
found this ancient uh remedy,3000 years old, for healing
hepatitis, ancient remedy 3,000years old for healing hepatitis.
So the next day the chief ofmedicine allowed it to happen,
in comes about 20 Orthodoxrabbis and they're carrying a
box and in the box there wereabout 30 or 40 doves, really
(17:34):
yeah, and they brought it intothe ICU, which was a big deal.
Were about 30 or 40 doves,really yeah?
And they brought it into theICU, which was a big deal.
And you know the other doctorswere going crazy, because
anybody that gets sick from theanimals, the birds.
But anyways, they brought it in, they did some work with the
dove that cleared some feathersand then they placed it on the
belly button of the girl withthe hepatitis and exactly what
(17:59):
happened to me, that blacklightning bolt shot out.
Wow, dove.
The dove screamed and fell overdead.
Wow.
So they went through 18 doves,each one taking longer and
(18:20):
longer and longer to die as itpulled out this blackness from
the girl.
And in the meantime the nursewas adjusting the levophed.
Levophed is a presser agent,pushes the blood pressure up
okay because she, when she camein, when they started, they had
50 over zero, meaning theycouldn't find the diastolic.
Wow, and she and should be 120over 80.
(18:40):
She was 50 over, so she wasbarely perfusing her body.
She was close to death, wow,and that was on full dose
levophed.
By the time, 18 doves later,they had discontinued all the
levophed, all the vital signshad come back to normal.
Wow, all the blackness wasoutside of her body and she was
(19:03):
recovering.
She actually started to recover,she was coming out of it and,
unfortunately, at that timethere was a mutiny in the
hospital and all the doctors gotin the cafeteria and they got
together and they said we haveto stop this.
This is bad.
It's against traditionalmedicine.
People are going to getpsittacosis from the doves.
(19:26):
And they came up they didn'thave shotguns, but they should
have.
And they came up like a lynchparty and they threw the
orthodox rabbis out.
Wow, and they just nailed thechief of medicine who was in
tears.
He was 80 years old, but he wasin tears because he was trying
(19:46):
to save her.
Yeah, uh, she ended up dying,uh, like a day or so later.
Oh, so it was.
It was a shame, but, but all ofthe whatever that evil was
because it really was it wasgone wow, wow, that's what a
(20:06):
story.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I mean that's and and yet I can, I could see what
you're describing happening andit's, it's something that I
could, I, you took me to thatplace, I could, I could, I could
, I could feel it.
And you just got to wonder whatif they had not done that?
(20:28):
What if they had not?
You know, yeah, would she haverecovered and that was always my
question in my own heart if wehad?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
just just you know, would she have recovered that
was always my question in my ownheart if we had just given her
a little more time, Right?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Especially considering that she was already
.
She had gone from a place of noreturn almost, and she was
already recovering without theaid of this drug that's propping
her blood pressure up, exactly,exactly.
That's unbelievable, wow, so weshare a lot of that.
(21:04):
I believe I've had a similarnot similar in the description
of it, but I've dealt with manyspiritual experiences that would
defy people's logic and and youknow it's, it's you come to
realize that everything'shappening on that place and the
(21:25):
physical world kind of manifestswhat's really happening.
It's almost a reflection ofwhat's really going on.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
It's not almost.
I mean the physical world is,in my understanding is, a
condensation of the spiritualreality.
So you know, what's happeningup there is being kind of
condensed and precipitated downhere.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Right.
No, I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right, so I totally agree.
So you have a practice today,and when somebody comes to you,
what is the scope of yourpractice?
Well, I founded a universityexcuse me and mostly what I'm
doing is teaching people to healnow, so I'm not doing so much
practice anymore.
Okay, but when people come,when I see, you know maybe five,
ten people a week.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
What I do is I review all their medical records.
Once I know essentially whatthe medical issues are and I
like to have you know.
I like a CT scan, I like labs.
I like to know what's going on.
Yeah, yeah, and I like to haveyou know.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I like a CT scan.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I like labs, I like to know what's going on yeah?
And then I go into the energybody.
I look at the etheric body, Ilook at the energy body, the
aura, to see what are theenergetic patternings that are
going on, that are in the energyfield, that cause the
precipitation into the body.
Okay, and then once I kind ofhave that down, then I put
(22:57):
myself into the presence of Godand in prayer ask the most high
to give me a way through.
Like, how do I get throughwhatever is there in the energy
field of the body?
And usually at that pointthere's light that starts to
come in as guidance.
So I start to follow that lightand usually that's a deeper
(23:22):
level of diagnosis.
So I'll end up in the person'ssoul.
I'll be looking at the qualitiesof the soul, such as mercy and
compassion and love.
Look at what you know, whatmight be blocking it, like,
let's say it was breast cancer.
So I might end up in the soul.
I would be looking at thequality of El Wadud, which is a
(23:43):
quality of divine love, and thenI'll see where the quality has
been thwarted or twisted orturned in the soul, blocking it.
And then, once that's clear,where it lives, then we start
the process of trying totransmute the memories or the
(24:04):
belief systems or the images orexperiences that caused the soul
to reflect light of God in thewrong way.
Okay, okay, once we can clearit and then the reflection of
the divinity begins to manifestin the soul.
Usually that is enough in manycases just to get the healing.
(24:26):
Once that happens, we start tosee the healing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And in cancer it's a little bit more because it's
deeper and it's you know, thecancer is stronger.
So you don't just often get itone time, you have to usually
take more time and then, once wework it out, we kind of take it
down to the heart.
Or we can go the other way, wecan also start from the body and
work it up to the divine.
(24:50):
But maybe an example would begood.
So a woman came in to me.
She had congestive heartfailure and she was uh end stage
.
Her ejection fraction was about28.
Normal is uh 40 to 60.
Uh 25 is usually the the doorof they hit 25, they're out.
(25:13):
She was on full drugs, you knowfrom the allopathic, to change
it but it wasn't working.
And she came in for a personalretreat with me, which was a
four-day course and the firstthing I did is I looked at the
field and around her heart shehad, you know, just a massive
black light that was sitting inher heart.
(25:34):
Wow, and you know.
And then when I went to thesoul, the soul was, can you
imagine, taking like a piece ofbamboo and running a knife over
it?
So it's like broken into layers.
That was what the soul lookedlike, like the soul was
fractionating like that.
Wow.
(25:54):
So what we started to, westarted to, you know, I said to
her, why are you sick?
And she said well, I was in aretreat in New Mexico.
Um, I thought it was going tohelp me, it was a retreat to get
me to God, but I was in alittle casita and underneath the
casita there was swamp.
You know, it was like a septictank and there were swamp gases
(26:17):
that came up and they caused meto have congestive heart failure
.
I was, I got swamp gaspoisoning.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Oh, yeah, it sounds odd, but not pleasant Not
pleasant.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So if you're building casitas on your property, do
not put any.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
No, I know where the septic tank is.
We're not going to go anywherenear it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Good.
But when we looked deep I waslike you know, she's talking
about the septic, but thatwasn't the black light in her
heart.
So I said OK, let's go intothat.
And we went into it and withthe light of God, with the light
of God, and what she saw wasthat, um, she was enraged
because she, this, was areligious I won't say what
(26:59):
denomination, but she went intoa religious retreat to find God
and the, the uh, the leader ofthe community, molested her.
Oh, geez, Okay.
So she was dealing with Deepestbetrayal.
Yeah, deep betrayal.
And also she was probably late50s, so this was kind of her
(27:23):
chance to get to know God.
And so here she went, to thissupposed place and instead of
finding what she wanted, she raninto the molestation and,
emotionally, the anger and thebetrayal and she just that was
the blackness in her heart.
Yeah, okay, so we were able toget that out.
We got that out for a secondday we removed it, but then we
(27:45):
went deeper.
We went into the soul, and inthe soul what we found was that
she didn't trust God.
She felt betrayed by God andit's her own way she had
betrayed God, right, and so themolestation was actually like a
precipitation of the own issuesof betrayal that were inside of
(28:07):
her Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And that's difficult.
The problem itself is difficult, but realizing what caused it
must have been even moredifficult.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Anger at God.
She didn't know that she justwanted to come closer to God.
She didn't know that she hadcut off.
When she hit it, she startedshaking, she started rocking and
yelling and just the whole bodywent into almost like a seizure
.
But it wasn't.
It was energy releasing.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And then it broke through and the light just
cleared and she connected to God.
The light of God came down intoher heart, into her soul, and
she kind of lit up and shestarted glowing.
Wow, you know, like the lastday of the of the event.
Well, she went home and abouttwo and a half days later, and I
remember, her heart was threetimes or it was two times the
normal size, or almost threetimes.
(29:06):
It was massive.
Wow and the failure.
And three weeks later she callsme and she says you can't
believe this, my heart hasreturned to normal.
My, she calls me and she saysyou can't believe this, my heart
has returned to normal.
My ejection fraction is only40%, and I'm healthy.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Wow, wow, that is unbelievable.
Well, we're running low on time,but I have so much more I want
to talk to you about, and one ofthe things is my experience
working with people that arehealers, which is varied I mean
from Native American to SouthAmerican to, I mean all over the
(29:44):
world, all different spiritualpaths and we find that it's kind
of all the same thing.
If you're truly on the path,you're on the path and God is
God and you can.
You can come up with whatevername or stories you want to, but
it doesn't change what is andwhat I.
(30:05):
One of the things that I foundin common with many healers is a
deep empathy and the ability toconnect with people in a in a
way that is sometimes eventangible, but that takes a toll
on the healer, and so myquestion to you is I'm assuming
(30:26):
you have this empathy because ofjust the way that you're
speaking and that you'reconnecting with people in a very
deep way, but how do you takecare of yourself, because you've
got to shake all this stuff offafter you're done.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, I think that that's the teaching of healers.
Like spiritual, healers have tolearn how to not take it on,
and every system is different.
In the Sufi system, we havepractices that actually clean
your body.
Those are certain types ofprayers.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And so, for me, I pray five times a day.
Huh, and I wash.
When I'm done with the prayers,I wash off whatever I've taken
from the person.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And that really has worked.
And the other thing which Ilike about symbolism a lot is
you know, there's magnetichealing, which is where you're
pulling the light off, andthere's radiatory, where you're
transmitting light.
In Sympathism tends to be moreradiatory, so by radiating it
we're not taking it on so much.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Oh, okay, all right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah Well, unfortunately it we're not
taking it on so much.
Okay, all right, that makessense.
Yeah, unfortunately I'm also amagnetic killer, so I do it.
So I have to wash it, but but Ilike the radiatory better
you've got the tool to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I I am going to spend some time studying sufism a
little bit and it seems very,you know, Rumi has always
resonated the wisdom and thesaints, but I never went deeper
than that, you know, and I neverreally, you know, got into it.
(32:05):
But I've explored and studiedmany traditions and many
practices and have found valuein all of them and many
practices and have found valuein all of them, and I think that
this is going to add anotherlevel to my understanding.
This is something that I'veexperienced and most recently I
(32:25):
came to a similar kind of aplace, in a way, where I was
losing a battle and I was losinga battle and I was doing
everything I knew to do and Iwas working with a type of
prayer ceremony, working withpeyote, and it's a very powerful
tool and you know you'repraying all night and it's a big
(32:49):
deal when you're serious aboutit, and it helped me to find the
answers that I needed and tofind the clarity that I needed
and in spite of all of that,learning what was going to work,
I was still losing and I cameup with an answer that I knew
(33:09):
would work, but then I was on atimetable and trying to get
insurance to cover this and thatand all these things, and it
was chaotic.
And the one thing I've learnedand maybe it's just me, but I've
had a deep connection with Godsince I was a young kid.
I was raised Catholic and I hadthis sort of connection in a
(33:30):
way that Catholicism reallydidn't give me and it's gone
from there.
But, for whatever reason, Godhas always given me hard work to
do and then at the very, very,very, very last second, he comes
in and fixes everything, andthis no exception.
(33:53):
And for me it was like I wasliterally, like my faith was
strong, I knew this was going towork.
I even saw in one of myexperiences, I saw the healing.
I was like I've done this, I'mthere already, but I had to do
the work on the physical level,so my heart was good.
I was like I know I've got this, I know I'm on the right path,
(34:15):
I know I solved this.
And meanwhile this thing'schoking me out, it's pushing on
my carotid artery.
I can't sleep because of thepain and I'm like where are you?
You know?
And then, literally at the lastsecond of the last, you know,
the minute of the last day.
All of a sudden I got lifted up.
But what is with the lastsecond thing?
(34:36):
Is that just me, or has ithappened to a lot of people?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I think it happens to a lot of people because it's
about faith.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Are you going to give up, or how long does your faith
last for?
Yeah, yeah, Well, I guess Ifound that out a few times.
Well, listen, Ibrahim, I amvery tickled about this
conversation and I feel likewe've just barely scratched the
surface.
I would certainly love towelcome you back anytime you
feel up to it.
This actually was a last-minutenotice.
(35:10):
I got your assistant reachedout to me yesterday and here we
are today, so I find thatserendipitous.
I think those things don'thappen on accident.
So, before we wrap up, how doessomebody find you?
And if somebody wants to engagewith your services, how would
they find that?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah Well, first of all, we just purchased some
property up in Santa Barbara, ohnice.
So we're going to have thatavailable shortly if people want
to come up and actually visitus, both for the school and the
clinic.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Wow, I may have to come up and visit you.
Yeah, you'd come up, you'd bewelcome.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Go to SufiUniversityorg or you can go
to the Institute of SpiritualHealingcom.
You can find me at Dr JaffeMDas well, but those are the
places you'd look to find us andwe do have work for people who
are wanting to get to thespiritual side.
That's our focus.
(36:11):
So if you really want to get tothe root, like what's behind
your illness, that's our focus.
So if you really want to get tothe root, like what's behind
your illness, what's the soulbase, what's the core issue,
what's manifesting, why did itcome?
That's the work that we'rereally focusing on for people I
love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I love it.
Well, I, I couldn't be moreimpressed and again, I I would
love to, uh, continue ourconversation.
Um, again, I'm just, I can'tsay enough.
So, dr Jaffe, it's been anabsolute pleasure and this has
been another episode of theHealthy Living Podcast.
(36:45):
I thank you for all yoursupport and we will see you next
time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
His name is Dr Ibrahim Jaffe.
He's an MD, a licensed medicaldoctor and a world-renowned
spiritual teacher.
He pioneered the field ofmedical spiritual healing, a
deeply integrative approach thataddresses the root of physical,
(00:24):
emotional and spiritual illness.
He bridges Western medicinewith Sufi spiritual wisdom.
Dr Jaffe has helped over 50,000people worldwide, including
celebrities, ceos and even thoseon the brink of death, heal
chronic conditions, awaken theirhearts and transform their
lives.
And Dr Jaffe, that's prettyimpressive.
(00:52):
I am looking forward to ourconversation.
It seems that we have a lot incommon of especially combining
the notions of Western medicineand spirituality and herbalism
and all of these things to findanswers.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm happy to be here and glad to talk about these
things.
It needs to go out for ourpatients, or everybody, so they
have the best chance to heal.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I agree, as we just had a brief conversation.
I've been mired in Westernmedicine recently, with all
these oncologists and all thesedifferent doctors trying to tell
me what they think I should do,and it's interesting because
I've become my own advocate,I've become my own expert and I
(01:39):
believe that I'm the world'sforemost expert on the cancer
that I have, and because it'severything so unique and as a
physician, my experience hasalways been my dad was a surgeon
, so I grew up in the medicalworld and physicians have this
training that they receive andthen they practice what they are
(02:01):
trained and they haveinfluences of pharmaceutical
companies and the schools thatthey are taught by and their
funders and all of that, andthey seldom stray from their
lessons and every once in awhile you'll find somebody who
has an integrative approach andthey welcome additional
(02:25):
resources and and ideas and itseems that that's where you're
coming from yeah, I think I meanmedicine has changed a lot in
the past 20 years.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I I got my degree 1983, okay, and um, you know.
So the the changes are, it'sbecome much more controlled.
So as a doctor, you have tofollow certain algorithms, right
, you know?
And if you don't, you will loseyour license or you'll get a
(02:59):
malpractice.
Right Standard of care.
Exactly, you got to do it andunfortunately, what it's done is
brought a lot of fear intodoctors, and then it's also
created a limitation whichallows, you know, the pharmacy
groups at Big Pharma to controlthe use of what we're doing.
(03:20):
And so as doctors we get stuckin that and it's very hard to
get out of it.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, I understand the sort of the conundrum you know
and and yet I've found doctorsare people and sometimes a
doctor will take matters intohis own hands and decide that
you know, I'm going to do what'sright, as opposed to this thing
(03:47):
that they are going to try tomake me do.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Exactly, and I think that there's more and more of us
around like that.
But you know we take that riskbecause you're you know you're
risking your license and you'rerisking your practice and your
livelihood if you do it.
But I think those of us who youknow appreciate that.
As a patient, if I was apatient, I want the best chance
to live that I can get.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Heck yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't want someone telling me this is all you can
do, because I know there's a lotof other things that can help.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Well, and really as a patient and really as a patient
you'll come to realize thatwith doctors have become so
specialized nowadays wherebefore there was a lot of
general practitioners andinternal medicine doctors and
sort of more broad rangingpractices, and nowadays
(04:40):
everything is really honed downto these little specifics and a
surgeon is just a surgeon.
And you know the medicaloncologist, she just does the
chemo.
And you know, everybody hastheir own little thing.
But when you start talking toall these different doctors,
you'll realize that they don'teven agree.
And one doctor will read out ofhis playbook and say, well, you
(05:02):
need surgery.
And the next doctor will say,well, if you get surgery, you're
going to be deformed and youneed radiation.
And the other doctor will say,well, I think you need chemo,
but we want radiation too.
And then you go to theintegrative guy and he's like
well, you know, there's thiswhole different approach that we
could go after.
And then you do your ownresearch and you come up with
(05:23):
answers.
I think that you know, thespecialization has really
changed things a lot, and maybenot for the better.
I mean in the better in someways, because you have people
that have gotten very skilled attheir craft.
You have surgeons that are justamazing, doing work that
couldn't have been done withrobots and nanoparticles and
(05:45):
things, but at the same time,you know, the human body is is a
miraculous machine on its ownand sometimes all it needs to be
is let heal itself, right?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I I'm with you 100 and and I agree with you that
there's enough discord amongspecialists that it's very hard
to get In medicine.
It's hard to get to the truthof what's best.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right.
Well, I think another thingthat I've discovered in Western
medicine is that it's verysymptomatic, it's not really
cure-based.
I mean, I don't think thatdoctors are really particularly
trying to cure you.
They're treating you and onceyou get into a doctor's care of
an illness, generally you justnever leave.
(06:35):
You're now in treatment forever.
It seems that maybe if we getto the root of things, we start
finding cures and maybe thewhole goal is to not need a
doctor anymore.
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
That's supposedly what we're supposed to be doing.
But I agree, Medicine today isnot curative.
It really just prolongs andkind of protects a little bit,
but it doesn't ever cure, orvery rarely.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And I don't even think they're trying to, or very
rarely and I don't even thinkthey're trying to.
I think it's about mitigatingquality of life problems and
keeping a thing from gettingworse or removing it.
They like to remove things alot.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
That's true.
But you know the other side ofit is that medicine does bring
so much good, you know,especially emergency care oh,
absolutely it's done so muchgood for people, especially
emergency care.
And oh, absolutely it's done somuch good for people asthma
that they have, you know there'sso many things that's treated
that people would really suffer.
So it's.
You know we're walking thatline between incredibly good but
then also not getting to theroot of why people are sick.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And that's one of the points I wanted to get into as
we start talking about some ofyour other practices is that one
of the things I've discoveredis that everything seems to have
a double edge to it, andthere's a benefit and there's
always a cost to pay, whetherit's a side effect or a cost or
some issue.
(07:59):
And I think just about everyelement of health has to come
with making choices that weighout, you know, the benefits
versus the cost.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Well, I don't know.
I just have a little bitdifferent philosophy, which is
every system of healing hasbenefit, sure, and there's
actually ways to figure outwhich system is going to work
for somebody.
So ideally, like when I'mworking with, I don't really
(08:37):
think about the cost so much.
What I think about is okay,what are the possibilities with
healing something?
And then I take it intoguidance and there's there's
different ways of reaching itand try to say, okay, when I
bring it into this place, thishappens.
When I bring it into adifferent place, something else
happens.
So I try to go through the, theoptions.
(08:58):
For example, uh, you know, saysomebody, I had a guy that just
had a parotid tumor, kind ofsimilar to what you were dealing
with, and he was looking at,you know, mexican clinics,
german clinics, austrian clinics, swiss clinics, you know all
different.
But when we really looked atthe guidance for there was only
maybe two clinics that reallymade a difference Okay, so we
(09:20):
were able to cut out all theother clinics and he ended up
going to a German clinic and hehad complete success.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's completely gone.
Nice, excellent, excellent.
Doing the research.
It makes a difference sometimes.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It makes a difference , and so I think, for your
listeners, we've got to first ofall understand that doctors
alone are socialized intothinking our way is the best.
It's not, but it has value.
So we don't want to cut it out,we don't want to throw it away,
sure, but we want to make surethat we don't get caught in the
(09:52):
quagmire of you know, our way isthe allopathic medicine is the
best way to go.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right or the only way to go, or the only way Exactly.
I'm very interested in hearingabout your Sufi practices, and I
don't know much about that.
I'd like to hear about whatthat is all about.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Okay.
Well, sufism is a spiritualpath.
It has to do.
I don't know if you know aboutRumi, and it's the same as
basically what Rumi teaches, buta little bit different.
It's about walking the heart toGod, so you're essentially
bringing your heart into God.
Realization, nice, okay, andthe whole system is based on
(10:35):
surrendering to divine will.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Wow, I've had to learn that one recently.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I bet you have.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It's a found way, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, well, in Sufism we have practices that directly
put you into divine light,divine love, divine will, and
once you get there, you open upto the guidance that comes and
then you do the work that has tohappen.
So, let's say, you havesomebody with you know, breast
(11:06):
cancer is a common one.
If you went into the guidancewith God, you'd see that most
breast cancer is about betrayalof love.
Okay, in other words, thatsomething in the woman who has
breast cancer, she's either feltbetrayed, possibly she's
betrayed somebody, but there's a, there's a nature where love
(11:29):
got betrayed and that manifestsin the breast.
Interesting, yeah, thatfascinating and so not
surprising, though necessarilyno, because we're, you know, as
a culture where we've forgottenabout love.
You know we're, we don't loveanymore.
Right, you know.
And of course, for women, youknow you're not really valued
(11:50):
when you're deeply loving.
A lot of days it's you'revalued for how you look, or
you're valued for being a man orhow productive you are, but
you're not getting valued foryour core, which is your nature
of compassion and love, which iswhat women are all about.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
I totally agree, and that makes a lot of sense.
So you become aware of thecause of the problem now.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Exactly.
You've got to get to the root.
Which the root problems are?
Either in the soul you have toget to the soul or they're in
the heart Right, and sometimesthey're in the emotions,
sometimes they're in thepsychology.
So there's different places.
You have to go to find what'sthe root.
Where does it live?
And every disease, you know, isconnected to a chakra, it's
(12:43):
connected to an energy center.
So there's clues, you know.
If you get a lung cancer or youhave something in your lung,
you know it's connected to yourthroat center and so it has to
do with expression or creationor some type of.
You know it's connected to yourthroat center and so it has to
do with expression or creationor some type of.
You know cancer is always abouta way that the natural movement
of the soul gets subjected to afalse reality and gets turned
(13:07):
away Right.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
No, I, like I said, I've recently become very aware
of what cancer is and isn't, andit turned out it wasn't much of
what I thought it was to beginwith, and I had my ideas about
things.
And then you come to experienceit and really seek to solve it
(13:30):
and you're like whoa, there's alot going on here that I did not
expect and, like you said, it'sa lot of internal work.
Um, just as much as the.
You know what I I always.
What I discovered was it's aspiritual healing, but you got
to do the work in the physicalrealm as well it's got to be
(13:51):
both you're.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
You know're exactly right.
You've got to address it likeyou did.
Maybe allopathicallyconventional medicine, maybe you
do integrative medicine in someway which it sounds like you
did.
You did the herb?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Absolutely yeah, we used a little bit of everything,
yep.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's the best way to go about it every time, but
at the core of it, if you don'tget to the spiritual roots it's
going to, it would come back.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And I'm kind of curious.
I like to hear the stories thatyou know.
We've had some amazing gueststhat all come from these
different places and we all findourselves on this path of, of,
of healing and and wellness.
And how did you find thisSufism?
(14:36):
Is it something that youlearned at a young age or did
you discover it later on in life?
How did you find your way tothis?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, it's a long story, but I was always a healer
.
But, um, when I was in medicalschool, they had a.
A girl came in.
She was 17.
She was dying of acutehepatitis and I had her in the
(15:05):
ICU and, uh, she was running.
You know, she was unconscious,she was in coma, but her, she
was running.
You could see her legsconstantly running.
Wow.
So I was like what is sherunning from?
I couldn't quite figure it out.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
So I was watching her the first 10, 15 minutes just
kind of watching her run in thebed.
And then, um, I decided to putmy stethoscope, you know, to
examine her, and I put thestethoscope and literally
something jumped out of.
It was like, oh, I mean it was.
I mean I had my eyes closed, butit was like a black lightning
bolt, wow it went into my handholding the stethoscope and then
(15:43):
it was like ice cold and itwent up my arm and I almost
passed out.
It was so and I realized that,you know, there were like hidden
things like this wasn't Right.
There is a spiritual realm andincredibly powerful, I mean, you
know.
So we tried to heal her.
(16:03):
You know she was in Chicago andwe talked to, you know,
university of Chicago, rush andUniversity of Illinois.
We're all trying to figure outhow to heal her and nobody could
figure it out.
So you know, we gave her thisback in 1983, we're giving her,
you know, large doses ofcortisone and, you know,
whatever antivirals we had atthe time, which were almost
(16:23):
nothing and she was dying.
So around that time, all of asudden the head of medicine was
contacted by the Jewishcommunity in Chicago and they
said that the, that this girlwas part of a Jewish school,
(16:46):
that they had had like fivedeaths of of weird diseases in
the school that year, and theneverything happened and they
were concerned, like was youknow what was going on.
So they asked the, they calledto uh Jerusalem, they spoke to
the head, uh Svartic, uh rabbi,he went into the Talmud and they
(17:08):
found this ancient uh remedy,3000 years old, for healing
hepatitis, ancient remedy 3,000years old for healing hepatitis.
So the next day the chief ofmedicine allowed it to happen,
in comes about 20 Orthodoxrabbis and they're carrying a
box and in the box there wereabout 30 or 40 doves, really
(17:34):
yeah, and they brought it intothe ICU, which was a big deal.
Were about 30 or 40 doves,really yeah?
And they brought it into theICU, which was a big deal.
And you know the other doctorswere going crazy, because
anybody that gets sick from theanimals, the birds.
But anyways, they brought it in, they did some work with the
dove that cleared some feathersand then they placed it on the
belly button of the girl withthe hepatitis and exactly what
(17:59):
happened to me, that blacklightning bolt shot out.
Wow, dove.
The dove screamed and fell overdead.
Wow.
So they went through 18 doves,each one taking longer and
(18:20):
longer and longer to die as itpulled out this blackness from
the girl.
And in the meantime the nursewas adjusting the levophed.
Levophed is a presser agent,pushes the blood pressure up
okay because she, when she camein, when they started, they had
50 over zero, meaning theycouldn't find the diastolic.
Wow, and she and should be 120over 80.
(18:40):
She was 50 over, so she wasbarely perfusing her body.
She was close to death, wow,and that was on full dose
levophed.
By the time, 18 doves later,they had discontinued all the
levophed, all the vital signshad come back to normal.
Wow, all the blackness wasoutside of her body and she was
(19:03):
recovering.
She actually started to recover,she was coming out of it and,
unfortunately, at that timethere was a mutiny in the
hospital and all the doctors gotin the cafeteria and they got
together and they said we haveto stop this.
This is bad.
It's against traditionalmedicine.
People are going to getpsittacosis from the doves.
(19:26):
And they came up they didn'thave shotguns, but they should
have.
And they came up like a lynchparty and they threw the
orthodox rabbis out.
Wow, and they just nailed thechief of medicine who was in
tears.
He was 80 years old, but he wasin tears because he was trying
(19:46):
to save her.
Yeah, uh, she ended up dying,uh, like a day or so later.
Oh, so it was.
It was a shame, but, but all ofthe whatever that evil was
because it really was it wasgone wow, wow, that's what a
(20:06):
story.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I mean that's and and yet I can, I could see what
you're describing happening andit's, it's something that I
could, I, you took me to thatplace, I could, I could, I could
, I could feel it.
And you just got to wonder whatif they had not done that?
(20:28):
What if they had not?
You know, yeah, would she haverecovered and that was always my
question in my own heart if wehad?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
just just you know, would she have recovered that
was always my question in my ownheart if we had just given her
a little more time, Right?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Especially considering that she was already
.
She had gone from a place of noreturn almost, and she was
already recovering without theaid of this drug that's propping
her blood pressure up, exactly,exactly.
That's unbelievable, wow, so weshare a lot of that.
(21:04):
I believe I've had a similarnot similar in the description
of it, but I've dealt with manyspiritual experiences that would
defy people's logic and and youknow it's, it's you come to
realize that everything'shappening on that place and the
(21:25):
physical world kind of manifestswhat's really happening.
It's almost a reflection ofwhat's really going on.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
It's not almost.
I mean the physical world is,in my understanding is, a
condensation of the spiritualreality.
So you know, what's happeningup there is being kind of
condensed and precipitated downhere.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Right.
No, I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right, so I totally agree.
So you have a practice today,and when somebody comes to you,
what is the scope of yourpractice?
Well, I founded a universityexcuse me and mostly what I'm
doing is teaching people to healnow, so I'm not doing so much
practice anymore.
Okay, but when people come,when I see, you know maybe five,
ten people a week.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
What I do is I review all their medical records.
Once I know essentially whatthe medical issues are and I
like to have you know.
I like a CT scan, I like labs.
I like to know what's going on.
Yeah, yeah, and I like to haveyou know.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I like a CT scan.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I like labs, I like to know what's going on yeah?
And then I go into the energybody.
I look at the etheric body, Ilook at the energy body, the
aura, to see what are theenergetic patternings that are
going on, that are in the energyfield, that cause the
precipitation into the body.
Okay, and then once I kind ofhave that down, then I put
(22:57):
myself into the presence of Godand in prayer ask the most high
to give me a way through.
Like, how do I get throughwhatever is there in the energy
field of the body?
And usually at that pointthere's light that starts to
come in as guidance.
So I start to follow that lightand usually that's a deeper
(23:22):
level of diagnosis.
So I'll end up in the person'ssoul.
I'll be looking at the qualitiesof the soul, such as mercy and
compassion and love.
Look at what you know, whatmight be blocking it, like,
let's say it was breast cancer.
So I might end up in the soul.
I would be looking at thequality of El Wadud, which is a
(23:43):
quality of divine love, and thenI'll see where the quality has
been thwarted or twisted orturned in the soul, blocking it.
And then, once that's clear,where it lives, then we start
the process of trying totransmute the memories or the
(24:04):
belief systems or the images orexperiences that caused the soul
to reflect light of God in thewrong way.
Okay, okay, once we can clearit and then the reflection of
the divinity begins to manifestin the soul.
Usually that is enough in manycases just to get the healing.
(24:26):
Once that happens, we start tosee the healing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And in cancer it's a little bit more because it's
deeper and it's you know, thecancer is stronger.
So you don't just often get itone time, you have to usually
take more time and then, once wework it out, we kind of take it
down to the heart.
Or we can go the other way, wecan also start from the body and
work it up to the divine.
(24:50):
But maybe an example would begood.
So a woman came in to me.
She had congestive heartfailure and she was uh end stage
.
Her ejection fraction was about28.
Normal is uh 40 to 60.
Uh 25 is usually the the doorof they hit 25, they're out.
(25:13):
She was on full drugs, you knowfrom the allopathic, to change
it but it wasn't working.
And she came in for a personalretreat with me, which was a
four-day course and the firstthing I did is I looked at the
field and around her heart shehad, you know, just a massive
black light that was sitting inher heart.
(25:34):
Wow, and you know.
And then when I went to thesoul, the soul was, can you
imagine, taking like a piece ofbamboo and running a knife over
it?
So it's like broken into layers.
That was what the soul lookedlike, like the soul was
fractionating like that.
Wow.
(25:54):
So what we started to, westarted to, you know, I said to
her, why are you sick?
And she said well, I was in aretreat in New Mexico.
Um, I thought it was going tohelp me, it was a retreat to get
me to God, but I was in alittle casita and underneath the
casita there was swamp.
You know, it was like a septictank and there were swamp gases
(26:17):
that came up and they caused meto have congestive heart failure
.
I was, I got swamp gaspoisoning.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Oh, yeah, it sounds odd, but not pleasant Not
pleasant.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So if you're building casitas on your property, do
not put any.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
No, I know where the septic tank is.
We're not going to go anywherenear it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Good.
But when we looked deep I waslike you know, she's talking
about the septic, but thatwasn't the black light in her
heart.
So I said OK, let's go intothat.
And we went into it and withthe light of God, with the light
of God, and what she saw wasthat, um, she was enraged
because she, this, was areligious I won't say what
(26:59):
denomination, but she went intoa religious retreat to find God
and the, the uh, the leader ofthe community, molested her.
Oh, geez, Okay.
So she was dealing with Deepestbetrayal.
Yeah, deep betrayal.
And also she was probably late50s, so this was kind of her
(27:23):
chance to get to know God.
And so here she went, to thissupposed place and instead of
finding what she wanted, she raninto the molestation and,
emotionally, the anger and thebetrayal and she just that was
the blackness in her heart.
Yeah, okay, so we were able toget that out.
We got that out for a secondday we removed it, but then we
(27:45):
went deeper.
We went into the soul, and inthe soul what we found was that
she didn't trust God.
She felt betrayed by God andit's her own way she had
betrayed God, right, and so themolestation was actually like a
precipitation of the own issuesof betrayal that were inside of
(28:07):
her Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And that's difficult.
The problem itself is difficult, but realizing what caused it
must have been even moredifficult.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Anger at God.
She didn't know that she justwanted to come closer to God.
She didn't know that she hadcut off.
When she hit it, she startedshaking, she started rocking and
yelling and just the whole bodywent into almost like a seizure
.
But it wasn't.
It was energy releasing.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
And then it broke through and the light just
cleared and she connected to God.
The light of God came down intoher heart, into her soul, and
she kind of lit up and shestarted glowing.
Wow, you know, like the lastday of the of the event.
Well, she went home and abouttwo and a half days later, and I
remember, her heart was threetimes or it was two times the
normal size, or almost threetimes.
(29:06):
It was massive.
Wow and the failure.
And three weeks later she callsme and she says you can't
believe this, my heart hasreturned to normal.
My, she calls me and she saysyou can't believe this, my heart
has returned to normal.
My ejection fraction is only40%, and I'm healthy.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Wow, wow, that is unbelievable.
Well, we're running low on time,but I have so much more I want
to talk to you about, and one ofthe things is my experience
working with people that arehealers, which is varied I mean
from Native American to SouthAmerican to, I mean all over the
(29:44):
world, all different spiritualpaths and we find that it's kind
of all the same thing.
If you're truly on the path,you're on the path and God is
God and you can.
You can come up with whatevername or stories you want to, but
it doesn't change what is andwhat I.
(30:05):
One of the things that I foundin common with many healers is a
deep empathy and the ability toconnect with people in a in a
way that is sometimes eventangible, but that takes a toll
on the healer, and so myquestion to you is I'm assuming
(30:26):
you have this empathy because ofjust the way that you're
speaking and that you'reconnecting with people in a very
deep way, but how do you takecare of yourself, because you've
got to shake all this stuff offafter you're done.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, I think that that's the teaching of healers.
Like spiritual, healers have tolearn how to not take it on,
and every system is different.
In the Sufi system, we havepractices that actually clean
your body.
Those are certain types ofprayers.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
And so, for me, I pray five times a day.
Huh, and I wash.
When I'm done with the prayers,I wash off whatever I've taken
from the person.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
And that really has worked.
And the other thing which Ilike about symbolism a lot is
you know, there's magnetichealing, which is where you're
pulling the light off, andthere's radiatory, where you're
transmitting light.
In Sympathism tends to be moreradiatory, so by radiating it
we're not taking it on so much.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Oh, okay, all right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah Well, unfortunately it we're not
taking it on so much.
Okay, all right, that makessense.
Yeah, unfortunately I'm also amagnetic killer, so I do it.
So I have to wash it, but but Ilike the radiatory better
you've got the tool to do that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I I am going to spend some time studying sufism a
little bit and it seems very,you know, Rumi has always
resonated the wisdom and thesaints, but I never went deeper
than that, you know, and I neverreally, you know, got into it.
(32:05):
But I've explored and studiedmany traditions and many
practices and have found valuein all of them and many
practices and have found valuein all of them, and I think that
this is going to add anotherlevel to my understanding.
This is something that I'veexperienced and most recently I
(32:25):
came to a similar kind of aplace, in a way, where I was
losing a battle and I was losinga battle and I was doing
everything I knew to do and Iwas working with a type of
prayer ceremony, working withpeyote, and it's a very powerful
tool and you know you'repraying all night and it's a big
(32:49):
deal when you're serious aboutit, and it helped me to find the
answers that I needed and tofind the clarity that I needed
and in spite of all of that,learning what was going to work,
I was still losing and I cameup with an answer that I knew
(33:09):
would work, but then I was on atimetable and trying to get
insurance to cover this and thatand all these things, and it
was chaotic.
And the one thing I've learnedand maybe it's just me, but I've
had a deep connection with Godsince I was a young kid.
I was raised Catholic and I hadthis sort of connection in a
(33:30):
way that Catholicism reallydidn't give me and it's gone
from there.
But, for whatever reason, Godhas always given me hard work to
do and then at the very, very,very, very last second, he comes
in and fixes everything, andthis no exception.
(33:53):
And for me it was like I wasliterally, like my faith was
strong, I knew this was going towork.
I even saw in one of myexperiences, I saw the healing.
I was like I've done this, I'mthere already, but I had to do
the work on the physical level,so my heart was good.
I was like I know I've got this, I know I'm on the right path,
(34:15):
I know I solved this.
And meanwhile this thing'schoking me out, it's pushing on
my carotid artery.
I can't sleep because of thepain and I'm like where are you?
You know?
And then, literally at the lastsecond of the last, you know,
the minute of the last day.
All of a sudden I got lifted up.
But what is with the lastsecond thing?
(34:36):
Is that just me, or has ithappened to a lot of people?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I think it happens to a lot of people because it's
about faith.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Are you going to give up, or how long does your faith
last for?
Yeah, yeah, Well, I guess Ifound that out a few times.
Well, listen, Ibrahim, I amvery tickled about this
conversation and I feel likewe've just barely scratched the
surface.
I would certainly love towelcome you back anytime you
feel up to it.
This actually was a last-minutenotice.
(35:10):
I got your assistant reachedout to me yesterday and here we
are today, so I find thatserendipitous.
I think those things don'thappen on accident.
So, before we wrap up, how doessomebody find you?
And if somebody wants to engagewith your services, how would
they find that?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah Well, first of all, we just purchased some
property up in Santa Barbara, ohnice.
So we're going to have thatavailable shortly if people want
to come up and actually visitus, both for the school and the
clinic.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Wow, I may have to come up and visit you.
Yeah, you'd come up, you'd bewelcome.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Go to SufiUniversityorg or you can go
to the Institute of SpiritualHealingcom.
You can find me at Dr JaffeMDas well, but those are the
places you'd look to find us andwe do have work for people who
are wanting to get to thespiritual side.
That's our focus.
(36:11):
So if you really want to get tothe root, like what's behind
your illness, that's our focus.
So if you really want to get tothe root, like what's behind
your illness, what's the soulbase, what's the core issue,
what's manifesting, why did itcome?
That's the work that we'rereally focusing on for people I
love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I love it.
Well, I, I couldn't be moreimpressed and again, I I would
love to, uh, continue ourconversation.
Um, again, I'm just, I can'tsay enough.
So, dr Jaffe, it's been anabsolute pleasure and this has
been another episode of theHealthy Living Podcast.
(36:45):
I thank you for all yoursupport and we will see you next
time.
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