September 15, 2025 • 43 mins
A deeply personal and hopeful conversation unfolds as host Joe Grumbine shares remarkable progress in his cancer treatment journey alongside trusted colleague Dr. Robert Hoffman. Their exchange reveals the profound impact of finding the right medical team – one that listens, engages, and treats patients as partners rather than passive recipients of care.
Joe's voice brightens as he describes his oncologist, Dr. Song, who defies modern medical norms by personally administering treatments, performing blood tests before each session, and taking time to understand Joe's unique approach to healing. This level of personalized attention has created something rare in cancer care: absolute trust. Their relationship showcases how medical practitioners who combine technical expertise with genuine compassion can transform the patient experience during life's most challenging moments.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as they explore complementary approaches to standard treatments. From a Korean heat therapy technique using hot water foot soaks to methionine restriction protocols, these evidence-based strategies exist not to replace conventional medicine but to enhance its effectiveness while preserving quality of life. Dr. Hoffman shares a recently published case study about a Japanese woman with widespread metastasis who achieved remarkable recovery through combined approaches when traditional medicine alone had offered little hope.
Perhaps most valuable for listeners facing cancer diagnoses are the insights about patient advocacy. Both men emphasize how crucial it is to move beyond the shock of diagnosis and actively participate in treatment decisions. Their Sunday support group has empowered countless patients to seek second opinions, ask better questions, and explore comprehensive approaches rather than passively accepting standard care that often delivers merely standard outcomes.
As Joe prepares for his final round of chemotherapy with growing optimism about his prognosis, this episode stands as a powerful testament to how combining scientific rigor, open-minded exploration, and human connection can transform the cancer journey from one of despair to one of hope and possibility.
Join our supportive community by subscribing to the Healthy Living Podcast and discover how integrative approaches are helping patients defy expectations and reclaim their health.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and although it's been far too
long, we have back with us DrRobert Hoffman.
Robert, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Nice to be here, Joe, as always.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Well, you know, it's been a few weeks since we've
actually seen each other.
Yeah, it's been a few weekssince we've actually seen each
other.
Yeah, it's been a while.
I've even missed the call, andone week was because I was just
out of it.
Last week, our internet wasdown all day long.
I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
All right, that's all right.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Exactly.
Well, that's the good newsabout working with good people
is, you know, we're always therefor each other and we do what
we can every time.
So that's right, that's forsure.
I definitely want to catch upwith you and the work you've
been doing.
I wanted to share with you kindof a little update on my
situation, and you know it'sactually very positive.
(01:03):
You know, working with Dr Songhas been a godsend.
Once again, this is a doctor whoI literally told the last time
I saw him.
You know, doctor, I've neversaid this before to a doctor,
but I trust you and you knowI've had a lot of doctors in my
life.
(01:23):
My dad was a doctor.
I never said that to him.
I loved him.
But you know, as a doctor hedid things that I didn't
necessarily want done and Inever knew really what was going
on.
Something about this guy hespends time every time they do
an infusion.
He's the one who puts that inmy port, he actually told me.
(01:44):
He says you know, joe, they dida good job with your port, they
installed it well, and now whatdoctor's going to take the time
to notice that and share that?
Right?
Right, I mean, he really likehe pays attention to every
little thing.
He reminded me when we weretalking about like every time I
(02:05):
come to him with a thought or anidea, like I asked him the last
time, not the last time, thetime before that I saw him I
says well, you know, what do youthink about sauna?
Because I have a sweat lodge atmy place and we do that.
I do steam sauna and I knowthat cancer doesn't like heat
and it likes a cold environmentand anaerobic environment.
(02:25):
So you know, I've been doingthat.
But he said you know, joe, mywife loves the sauna, she loves
the steam sauna, but one timeshe burnt her lungs, you know.
You know, sometimes we steamjunkies we go a little too far,
you know you, you think you'reinvincible.
You crank that thing up, youtake a deep breath and, ooh ow,
(02:46):
you know you can get some hotsteam in there.
And he says you know, she gotan infection that turned into
pneumonia.
It turned out to be a problemfor her.
He says that generally doesn'thappen but it could.
And he says you know, I toldher there's an old Korean
technique that can avoid all ofthat.
(03:06):
It's kind of like an infraredsystem.
He goes you just take twobuckets, two five-gallon buckets
, and you put your feet in them.
And then you take hot water,hot as you can stand, and you
pour it over your feet and youjust keep that water, keep
adding to it until that, youknow, eventually the bucket
fills up.
But you keep it as hot as youcan stand.
(03:27):
And he says what happens isyour core will heat up.
You know your feet transmitheat pretty quickly and you know
, before you know it you'll besweating.
And he says you don't have toexpose your body to the outside
temperature the way that thesteam sauna does, and you don't
have to worry about breathing inall that steam and in fact you
(03:49):
don't even have to go inside aclosed room, a box.
You can sit outside and talk toyour wife or watch TV or work
on your computer, whatever youwant to do.
And I says, wow, what athoughtful gesture, right?
I mean for this guy, right,right, that's Dr.
Song what a thoughtful gesture,right, I mean for this right.
Right, that's dr song.
I have an alternative that'slike yeah, I agree, he goes, he
(04:10):
goes to me, he goes.
How did you know that?
You know the, the heat, I go,you know me, I'm always
researching, I go.
I'm always trying to find waysto make me stronger and the
cancer weaker, and he likes thatabout me.
He says you know, he didn't sayit, but I know.
When I ask him certainquestions he's like well, you're
actually thinking about thisand I can.
(04:30):
I think that's why he engagesme that way.
But then I watch him.
I sit in the infusion room right, and it's a small room, maybe
about I don't know eight bytwelve or something like that.
It's a pretty small room, threechairs in it, old fashioned.
You know UCI, they got thesereally fancy IV rigs and they've
(04:53):
got all these differentmonitors and sensors.
And you know you hook up fourbags at the same time and they
hook into these things.
He's got this old metal rack.
It's literally just a hook, ametal hook with an adjustable up
and down on it and wheels on.
That's all you need, I knowexactly.
And he hooks that bag up thereand it has a little sort of a
(05:17):
metering device.
It's just a simple little likea pinch thing and you lift it up
or down and let the thing drip,more or less.
But I watch him and he puts theneedle in everybody's port or if
they have another way that theydo it, and his partner does too
.
He's got this partner from Idon't know from Europe,
(05:41):
somewhere, I don't know where itmight be, germany, but he has
an accent, pretty strong accent,but this doctor does the same
somewhere, I don't know where itmight be, germany, but he has
an accent, pretty strong accent,but this doctor does the same
thing.
I've never seen a nurse or aphysician's assistant ever put
in or take out a needle.
It's always the actual doctorand I thought, man, that's
really special, that's unique,like at UCI.
(06:01):
I think UCI is doing a good job, I don't think anything ill of
them, but I've never seen adoctor.
When I'm getting an infusion,it's always a nurse or nurse
practitioner or some sort of a,not a doctor, and so it's a
different experience.
And so this last time you know,know, I got the infusion.
(06:26):
He gives me the, the dose oftaxol, half of it or no, no, he
gives me all the dose of taxol,half of the cisplatin, and then
he sends me home with the pumpwith the five fluoruracil, and
then friday I come back and hetakes the pump out and he gives
me the last, the cisplatin, andhe tells me about.
(06:49):
You know really what he's doing.
He asked me a lot of questions.
He takes blood.
Every time I see him he does ablood test, little finger test
and they check out.
I don't know what all they'relooking, but I see it.
I don't know what all they'relooking, but I see it.
I don't know what everythingstands for yet, but he knows,
prior to me doing that infusion,that my body's ready for it.
(07:12):
And if there's an issue,sometimes they'll say, well,
your protein's a little low.
And I go, I know my dietdoesn't allow me a lot of
protein, but I'm doing prettygood.
I know my diet doesn't allow mea lot of protein, but I'm doing
pretty good.
And he's like, yeah, you'reokay, just keep your eye on it.
And then he might wellgenerally after the infusion and
(07:39):
then the following week I go infor the immunotherapy.
So he gives me a few days offand then I go into the
immunotherapy and he does bloodthen too, and he'll say well,
you know, your white blood cellcounts down.
I says, well, you just gave mea whole bunch of chemo.
You know what do you think it'sgoing to do?
And he smiles, he goes.
(08:00):
I know he says but we're goingto watch you.
And sometimes he'll have me callin.
Last time he had me come in andhe was asking me a lot of
questions about my diet becausehe knows about my diet, and so
this time I came in he said well, I want you to come in Friday.
(08:22):
So I came in Wednesday to getthe Keytruda, the immunotherapy,
and then I came down Fridayjust to talk about the blood
result, because you know theyalways take blood.
I drove down there just to havea two-minute conversation with
him.
It was worth it.
And this guy sits with me and heasked me about my diet and he
(08:43):
said well, do you eat this?
Do you eat that?
Do you eat this, do you eatthat?
And I went through and and youknow some of the foods they said
yes to, some I said no to and Iexplained why.
Many understood.
And he had this little chart upon the wall and it's.
It says like uh, you know greenvegetables, um, you know onions
(09:05):
, beans, it's just you know it'sa good diet plan strategy and I
said I basically follow that.
You know I just am very carefulwith the protein, I don't.
You know I'm very careful withmy nuts, I'm very careful with
the legumes and you know there'sjust certain foods that I avoid
.
And he understood, you know hedidn't fight me on it.
He's still not sure I couldtell he kind of goes, you know
(09:25):
he says it's not hurting you, sohe's not telling me not to do
it.
He just still doesn'tnecessarily agree with.
I don't think he understandstruly the nature of what the
cancer's relationship withmethionine is.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
He doesn't understand , and the other day he asked you
if you're on glutaminerestriction or something Exactly
.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So because of that, I recognize that he knows very
well the things he knows, and heknows a lot more than any other
doctor I've ever talked toabout the things I'm dealing
with and this is a thing thatI'm not going to force down his
throat no, you don't need to.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And this is the thing that I'm not going to force
down his throat, but I can tellyou don't need to.
Oh, you, you, you, you, everyyou know we go with his strength
and he's got.
Maybe he's one of the leaders,if not the leader in the world,
and he doesn't have to knowanything about methionine.
We know about methionine.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Exactly, exactly about methionine, exactly
exactly, and so that's kind of abeauty that I I really wanted
to share with you, because I seehim recognizing the value of
what I'm doing withoutnecessarily understanding it,
and he's not telling me not todo it, he's he's just saying you
know, you go, do your thing,you're doing well.
And um, so this last time, thislast Friday, when I went out
(10:45):
there, I drove almost two hoursto go and see him for five
minutes, waited in his officefor an hour and a half before he
could see me and it was okay.
I just I smiled, I go, you know, but-.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, that five minutes is a treasure.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, when I went in there he ended up spending 15
minutes with me and he goes overevery little detail and he says
I said so how am I doing, doc?
I mean, you know what do youthink?
He says he says you're handlingthe medication, the chemo,
remarkably well.
And he says I know these drugs.
(11:18):
He goes every.
He reminded me that you know.
Again, he was on the team thatdiscovered cisplatin.
And he says you know, this isnot an easy treatment.
And he said but you're doingwell.
And he said you know you'rerecovering well, your white
blood cells have recovered.
And he hasn't had to give methat I forget the drug, but UCI
(11:41):
was always giving me after thefive fluors, so they gave me
this drug to cause my bonemarrow to produce white blood
cells better yeah, it's probablyone of these so-called colony
stimulating factors, somethinglike that?
yeah, I believe so.
So he said well, if you give itto you without you needing it,
(12:07):
it can kind of overstimulateyour system and maybe have some
negative side effects and youdon't need it.
Why take it Right?
So that's his thinking.
I'm like wow, great thinking,yeah, yeah, I mean you know His
mind is very clear oh my God,this guy's sharp as a tack and
(12:28):
again, his eyes aren't real good.
I see him.
He's got a magnifying glass.
He holds his glasses up to itwhen he needs to, but boom, boom
, boom, boom, boom.
Every little thing, everylittle detail.
He's on point and he's got agreat staff.
You can tell his nurses lovehim, his patients love him.
It's just a beautifulenvironment down there.
(12:52):
Had you not remembered that youknew him 40 years ago and
reached out to him, I know if Ihad cold called him and I just
discovered him on my own, hewouldn't have seen me.
No, he's not taking newpatients, but he remembered you
and you told him the story.
Maybe he remembered me, I don'tknow, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
(13:12):
But you told him a story insuch a way that he recognized
the value and he did take me,and I'm really, you know, still
kind of really taken by that.
That's really like it's part ofthis series of miracles that
have gotten me to the.
You know where I'm at now.
But what he said was you're,you're on a good road.
(13:34):
He's ordered an MRI.
Now I'm getting ready to takemy final round of this infusion.
And he said in his mind thatthis Keytruda is going to be our
maintenance.
He says I think that if we dothis right and it's working,
that that can be your, yourlong-term maintenance.
(13:55):
So he's already thinking thatwould be great.
I know, and I'm already doingwell with that, like I don't
seem to have any negative sideeffects from that.
I've had two rounds of it so farand it doesn't seem to like
right after I take it.
I haven't noticed anythingreally negative.
So hopefully, you know he'schecking my kidneys, he's
(14:17):
checking my.
You know all different.
He's monitoring a lot of stuff.
I see these blood results comeback and I don't know what they
all stand for because you knowthere's little abbreviations for
things and I haven't studiedthem all.
But the ones I do know, youknow the nutrients and the, the,
the um, uh, immunosystemmarkers and that kind of stuff.
(14:42):
I do recognize and I'm withinthe bounds with, you know, not a
flag on just about everything.
Anything I've been over orunder, it's been just by a hair,
so I've not really gone overany major line with this
protocol.
And the fact that he told methat you know he's expecting,
(15:05):
when I get these scans, thatwe're going to be complete, I'm
kind of excited about that.
Now the downside is and I'mbecoming very aware that this
chemo has sort of anaccumulative effect, because I
know that each round that I'vegotten in this second version
(15:30):
has hit me a little harder, andby that I mean, you know, the
nausea has been fairlyconsistent and been difficult to
keep my weight, getting myweight back.
So, like this time around, Idon't think I'm going to do a
full fast, I'm going to dofasting, mimicking, and I'll be
OK with that.
I just I didn't gain all myweight back this time, even
(15:52):
though I've been tryingno-transcript.
(16:20):
If I feel tired, I just sleep.
I said that's what my bodyneeds right now.
I'm not worried about it.
Only one more to go, joe.
Exactly, exactly, one more.
I'm kind of looking at it likeMuhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
When you poke yourself, what do you feel?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, I can definitely feel this thing.
The little bit of hardness thatis left is getting smaller and
I can feel both sides of my neckfeeling a lot more the same now
.
So we're definitely makingprogress in the last of it, and
remember, you remember how bigthat thing was?
(16:59):
I know oh boy, the grapefruit.
I know Exactly and I know for afact that some of this mass is
just necrotic tissue, it's justdead tissue.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It seems that way, and we will prove that with
methionine pet in Japan.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Exactly Exactly that with methionine pet in Japan.
Exactly exactly.
So I'm kind of getting excitedthat you know we're going to,
we're going to, he's going todeclare full remission and that
there's no cancer left.
Now we still know that it'slikely there's stem cells and
circulating tumor cells thatwill have to be dealt with on a
regular basis.
But you know what everybody has, those that will have to be
(17:37):
dealt with on a regular basis.
But you know what Everybody has, those and it's not that-.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well, you're going to stay on methionine restriction
and you'll go on Keytrudamaintenance Exactly Sounds good
and we'll monitor.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Exactly, exactly.
And the way I see it, when I goto Japan and I get the all
clear, we'll set a plan thatsays well, every whatever year
18 months, two years, whateverwe determine that sort of magic
number is we'll go back and doit again, Hopefully, you know,
my hope really is that thetechnology finds its way over
(18:12):
here and stays here.
You know, we know we have it.
They do brain scans with it,Right, but they do.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
There's a few clinics that do brain scans but they
don't do the full body scan.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Not that I know of it's hard to come.
I've never seen it Exactly soand hell.
I've never been to Japan andI've heard nothing but amazing
about it.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
you're going to love it.
Scott had the time of his life.
I heard that.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I heard that, so the last time I saw you, you had
just done this interview with aRussian.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, Russian TV.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, and I did end up seeing that.
Now I went to see it live and Idon't know, maybe they must
have played it like later on,but I watched it from 9 till
probably 9, 30 and it was.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Did you get the video recording?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
yeah, I finally saw the video recording of it so I
was able to see.
Did you get?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
the translated text.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I did yep, yep, I got both of that, so I was able to
um, thanks to shihiro and youguys and cynthia.
I think she's the one who putthat together.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I don't know who did it, but oh, shihiro put it
together, okay, and it was DrExame who got the translation
through his.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
AI, I love it.
I love it.
Well, that just shows thebeauty of this team.
When I see the group that meetson Sundays, I look at it as a
team.
You've got all these people.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
It's a team.
You got all these people.
It's a team and.
Joe, I'll tell you, and for thefolks listening, I really
appreciated what the Russian TVdid.
So the whole theme was based onan interview of Joe Rogan and
Mel Gibson Got it.
And Mel Gibson goes on and saysI have three friends and they
(19:59):
were stage four cancer and allthey took was ivermectin,
fenbendazole and methylene blueand they're all cancer free.
Right, of course that's a realhard one to believe, right, of
course that's a real hard one tobelieve, right?
(20:21):
So at the first, I don't knowwhat exactly came through on the
interview, but the first thingthey asked me is what do you
think about that?
I said it has no meaning for mebecause I only take information
from peer-reviewed papers inrecognized journals.
(20:41):
That's what I said.
And then they said are youworried that patients will
refuse standard therapy and dowhat Mel Gibson said to do?
And I said well, my patientsdon't refuse standard therapy,
(21:03):
right, that's what I said.
Those are basically the mainpoints.
Is, you know, people get on andthey're so glib and they talk.
Oh and then you know it was allabout a conspiracy.
The pharmaceutical companiesdon't want you to know about
(21:28):
ivermectin.
In my experience, joe, my ownexperience the pharmaceutical
companies don't even have anyidea whether you know ivermectin
or don't know ivermectincompletely out of their radar.
They don't give a darn.
What about that?
They're out to sell their drugs.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Exactly that's why they buy commercials.
That's yeah, they're out tomake money.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
No, hey, yes, hey.
What a revelation.
Commercial company wants tomake money.
So you know all this conspiracytherapy theories, I don't buy
it.
The pharmaceutical companypeople say to me why aren't the
pharmaceutical companiesinterested in methionine?
(22:14):
They don't see it to make anymoney, they don't see making
money from it.
It's not cool, likeimmunotherapy and Keytruda, and
fashionable.
I get it, but it's nothing todo with conspiracy, it's just
human nature.
These companies want to make abuck.
We, little or less we say whatthey make is, is, is, uh,
(22:44):
necessary, but for for a lot ofthe time, a lot of the patients,
it's not, it's not sufficient.
We need more, we need to add onto it absolutely that's what we
want to do.
So you know, like Dr Exame says,standard therapy gives you
(23:04):
standard outcome.
Okay, standard outcome is aheck of a lot better than
nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
But we want to improve it.
Right, yeah, three to fiveyears is great, if that's all
you think you have to live.
But the answer is about solvingthe problem Many patients.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
we can do better.
We think so.
We haven't proved it, but a lotof patients are doing well,
like you.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Right, you've got Dr Exime, you've got Gene, you've
got Chihiro, you've got Cynthia,you've got all these people
that are yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And a whole ton of patients in Japan, 20 years from
now, all these thingsDisappearing?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yes, you know, and that's huge.
And I think there's anotherlayer to this, doc, and it has
to do with quality of life andyou know the the standard of
care only solution generallyincludes one or more very
invasive, very disruptive,potentially devastating answers,
(24:10):
meaning extended radiation.
I'm not saying all radiation'sbad.
There's some people that havedone very well.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Joe, if we need it, it's there for us Exactly, and
there's times when we have nochoice.
We need it, but in your case wehad a choice.
It was clear.
We had a choice.
At some point we think there'sno choice, we're going to use it
.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Oh you bet.
I mean, my goal is to stayalive and and give myself the
very best quality of life that Ican, that I can muster.
That's exactly what you'redoing.
Yeah, absolutely, and I, Ithink you know, in talking to
various different doctors andyou know, I've, I've been
blessed, I've had a lot of greatguests on the show in the last
several months and somephysicians.
(24:59):
I talked to a plastic surgeonlast week from Beverly Hills.
He's probably real close to DrCastro where he operates from,
but this guy was actually a goodguy.
You think plastic surgeon,you're like, ah, you're just,
you know, whatever You're takingcare of, the movie stars.
But the truth is a lot ofplastic surgery is
reconstructive.
A lot of it has way more to dowith healing and health than
(25:24):
just, you know, vanity work, andit's not all cosmetic at all.
No, no.
And but the point was, is thisguy's approach was let's do the
least harmful thing to get themost results?
And I said, wow, I wish moreoncologists would think that way
, you know, and it doesn't seemthat the standard of care has
(25:50):
that approach it has.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's how you use the standard of care Correct
Standard of care has surgery, ithas chemotherapy and we'll
consider the immunotherapy aspart of chemotherapy, I believe.
So yeah, and it has radiology.
Okay, how are we going to useit?
Right, if we're going to dowhat they told you to do at UCI
(26:17):
take the chemo and getirradiated at the same time and
get a surgery?
That didn't seem very smart tome.
I don't know if you remember,mark, mark Lichty came over,
came and visited us and he saidhe's going to get chemo and or
(26:40):
androgen ADT, androgendeprivation therapy and
radiation.
I said, hey, mark, why you needthe radiation right now?
Let's ADT is really powerful.
Let's start with that, let'ssee how you do.
We can always come back for theradiation.
The ADT is not sufficient.
(27:00):
And he really listened.
I think he may go that way.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's fantastic and I think that's one of the real
powers of the group, because alot of times we get a new person
that comes in and they justcame back from their first trip
to the oncologist.
You know, they just gotdiagnosed and the first
recommendation that they receiveis you know, well, we're going
(27:23):
to do this.
And you know to anybody who'sever been diagnosed or has a
loved one who's been diagnosed,it's like a two by four across
your skull.
You know, you just are all of asudden going whoa, I'm a
healthy person.
Now they're telling me I havecancer.
And it's hard to swallow, nomatter who you are, no matter
(27:46):
what happens, no matter what,even if it's a seemingly minor
thing, you know, it's still likewow, that's for reals now.
And I think, whatever thedoctor tells you after that,
you're kind of in a fog, likeyou're like whoa, you know, and
I don't think you're ever goingto, no matter who you are, I
(28:09):
don't think you're ever going toprocess that.
Well, whoops, I think we lostyou for a second.
Hello, okay, okay, okay, yeah,all right, no worries, let me
put you on speaker then.
All right, all right, kim, youhear me okay.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I hear you really good.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
All right, perfect, we're going to do a hybrid
solution here.
Okay, one of these days we'regoing to have to get you a new
phone.
I know that phone.
You put that thing to a lot ofwork.
I see that thing overheat a fewtimes.
But anyways, we get these peoplethat come on to the Sunday
(28:57):
afternoon call and they've justbeen hit with this diagnosis and
it's like a ton of bricks andeven if you're a loved one, to
hear that your loved one hasbeen diagnosed with cancer and
we all know that, even if theysay, oh well, it's very
treatable, any cancer, can turninto a death sentence, sure, and
(29:21):
then they tell you, well, thisis what we're going to do.
And you know what?
You really can't process it.
You know, it's just like you,just kind of it's like you got
sucker punched and you're justsitting here, kind of like the
little cartoon birdies flyingaround your head and and you
just go.
Okay, you know, I and a lot ofpeople, what I'm finding out,
(29:45):
especially in this group thatI'm in on Facebook with the
squamous cell carcinoma people,is that a lot of people get
diagnosed and then they have towait weeks or even months to get
that first appointment and youknow if you're dealing with an
aggressive cancer like head andneck squamous cell carcinoma,
(30:06):
weeks and months can make adifference.
When it's spreading or, youknow, developing a blood system
or all the different things thathappen.
You can't give it any extratime and it kind of blows me
away that you know that you cango from a biopsy diagnosis and
(30:29):
then have to wait weeks or amonth to see an oncologist.
But that's just our system, Iguess right now the way it is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, you have to be very proactive and not tolerate
that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You're not going to see me, then I'm going to go see
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
If you have a cancer, you just can't be passive about
it, although part of thepatients are.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Many people are.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I think that that's a big part of what this group is.
The importance of this group is, you know, we share that
urgency and take charge ofyourself exactly, and when they
see somebody do it, it'sgenerally a lot easier to do it
yourself.
You know, like, yes, when, whenyou're out there in the, in the,
(31:20):
in the field, all by yourself,and you don't know anything and
you're just like, well, I don'tknow what to do, but I know I
need to do something and youknow you try whatever.
But when you got somebodystanding next to you going, all
right, well, you know, here'ssome things I did.
At least it gives you some kindof a map or a guidebook that
(31:40):
says, well, okay, and I believethat this group has probably
helped more than a handful ofpeople.
Oh for sure, get on the helpedmore than a handful of people.
Oh for sure, get on the courseof a lot of people, just a lot
of people.
Not even just getting better,but actually probably save some
lives, is what my guess is.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And I think that you know you've got to be awful
proud of that and know that youknow you're the heart of this
thing.
There wouldn't be a, therewouldn't be a Sunday afternoon
group if there wasn't a DrHoffman.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So we're all in it together, Joe, all contributing.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
We are absolutely so.
I always like to get to alittle piece of this.
It's it's not a.
It's not little because it'snot important.
It's little because there'salways tidbits that come out and
that I learned from, and I knowthat others, the listeners, do
as well.
You talk so much about.
You know the publishedpeer-reviewed sources of
(32:41):
information, as that's where youwork from, that's where you get
your information from.
But it's more than that.
You contribute to these things.
You have published more papersthan anybody I know, by a long
shot, but by even mostphysicians, most researchers.
(33:03):
You just have an extensiverange of papers that you've
published and I know justrecently there was a paper that
came out.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about that?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay, so this is a patient in Japan and she was
diagnosed with breast cancer.
She was diagnosed with breastcancer and I don't, I don't know
what happened, but she gotliterally whole body metastasis,
Yikes, and this.
So she went to see our Dr Satoin in Japan and in the flowers
(33:47):
away from Tokyo in Japan, in theflowers away from Tokyo, and he
started her on a type ofimmunotherapy, his special kind
of X-ray, which is not reallythe radiation treatment we think
about, and she started onmethioninase and a low
(34:10):
methionine diet and in I don'tknow five months or a relatively
short time, she cleared allmetastasis except in her liver.
And that's what we published.
And Dr Sato told me veryrecently she's now just on
(34:35):
methionine restriction and maybea little bit glucose
restriction and the livermetastasis is regressing Nice.
So that's the story in thatpaper.
The paper only goes to thepoint of metastasis clearing,
except the liver, and maybewe'll publish a follow-up paper
(34:56):
after her liver is cleared.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But that is so.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
No, I was going to say that is just so remarkable.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
It's remarkable I mean, you look at the image,
it's a regular PET scan, right,she's just full of metastasis,
yeah, and she clears.
And she is.
The Japanese have a specialkind of comic book, much more
sophisticated than our comicbooks.
(35:29):
Okay, it's called Manga, uh-huh, and she is a manga.
She does kind of medical manga,medical comic books, okay, and
she draws, wow, comic books.
All right, and she's going todo a manga story based on her
(35:49):
own cancer therapy.
Wow, she's gonna do it I loveit.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
love it now.
I don't know the statistics,but it's what I understand and
and the information I'vereceived is that most people
when metastasis has gone to thatplace where it's spread,
generally it's a death sentence,Like there's not Well her
(36:18):
hospital told her to go tohospice.
Right.
Instead she went to Dr Sato.
I love it.
I love it Because, if you thinkabout it, there's no surgery
that can operate, because it'sspread out throughout your body.
There's no radiation that youcan't treat, because radiation
is a localized treatment andchemotherapy generally by itself
(36:41):
isn't strong enough to knockout something that's spread in
all these different systems,because there's different kinds
of chemo for different kinds ofsystems and it doesn't seem like
I mean, I think most people,when, when, when you say
metastasize throughout your body, that to me says well, you're,
(37:01):
you know you're done, you knowthere isn't anybody says yes but
we've learned from her it's notnecessarily so.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
It may be in some cases Sure, but it's not
necessarily so.
And so somehow she was smartenough and lucky enough to
contact Dr Sato.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
And she's going to live.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Sounds like Dr Sato is kind of like our Dr Song out
here.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
He's a kind of Dr Song.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
A kind of modern Dr Song.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
I mean he's got all the newtools and all the things, but Dr
Song is working magic with thechemo tools.
Oh, you bet he is, you bet heis I strove.
Yeah, no, there's just no doubtat all, and I believe this
other doctor that he's workingwith is probably kind of a nut.
(38:00):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
name of this other doctor.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I don't know him offhand.
I'll take a picture of thething and I'll get it.
That's one thing.
That this has hit me so hard ismy memory Just remembering
little things has been it'scalled chemo brain Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I tell you Clear up.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You know it's so funny, robert.
I've had people in my life tellme about this and I always kind
of poo-pooed it.
I was like, yeah, whatever, youknow, it's like in my mind,
it's like depression.
I never had it, so I neverunderstood it.
I never had empathy, and boy, Igot an empathy bucket now.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
It clears up.
Chihiro had it.
Almost everybody has it.
Yeah, it clears up.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
No, I expect that I'm looking forward to you know
again.
That's where I say this chemosolution to me has been a
godsend Because, as far as Iunderstand and the doctor's
monitoring my kidneys very wellunless I was to not hydrate
myself enough it could do damageto the kidneys and possibly
(39:04):
Platinum attacks the kidneyRight.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's why Dr Song is being so careful.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And he gives me hydration withevery infusion and I'm always
drinking.
I'm always drinking water,coconut water, smoothies.
I'm a drinking fool.
Tea, I'm always.
You know, I'm constantly.
I monitor my urine color, Imean if it gets a little darker
than a little nice and clear I'mon, I'm on it.
(39:31):
So, yeah, I I feel very strongand confident that, um, you know
, my kidneys are going to comeout just fine and when I'm done
with this thing I'm going tocompletely recover, because
remember, I went almost eightweeks between cycles and I was
recovering remarkably well.
(39:52):
My hair was starting to growback and my head was getting
clearer.
The taste was leaving my mouth,I was putting weight on pretty
strong.
So I'm looking forward togetting back to that and I don't
think the Keytruda has thatkind of a side effect.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
No, no, Keytruda's different.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm excited.
I know that you submitted thatcase study on my case.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
It's right on schedule now.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
My guess is it'll come out about the beginning of
November.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I love it.
I can't wait to share that withDr Song.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, now you see what I'm saying.
Exactly, exactly.
He'll look at it a littledifferently after that.
I'm very confident.
I am too.
So anyways, well, robert, it'sa treat.
I feel like it's been way toolong since we talked, and I'm
glad that we're catching up.
(40:52):
Me too, I look forward to it.
Monday I get my infusion, butwe'll see how I'm doing.
I started really early thistime, so it's possible we'll be
able to come by and drop by andsee you this time.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, okay, All right .
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Well, thank you once again for joining us to come by
and drop by and see you thistime.
Okay, okay, so all right.
Well, thank you once again forjoining us.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
This has been.
It's been my pleasure, Joe,always to be on your program.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I love it.
I believe we're helping people.
I get people that tell me Allyou need to do is listen.
Exactly, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and we will see.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and although it's been far too
long, we have back with us DrRobert Hoffman.
Robert, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Nice to be here, Joe, as always.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Well, you know, it's been a few weeks since we've
actually seen each other.
Yeah, it's been a few weekssince we've actually seen each
other.
Yeah, it's been a while.
I've even missed the call, andone week was because I was just
out of it.
Last week, our internet wasdown all day long.
I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
All right, that's all right.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Exactly.
Well, that's the good newsabout working with good people
is, you know, we're always therefor each other and we do what
we can every time.
So that's right, that's forsure.
I definitely want to catch upwith you and the work you've
been doing.
I wanted to share with you kindof a little update on my
situation, and you know it'sactually very positive.
(01:03):
You know, working with Dr Songhas been a godsend.
Once again, this is a doctor whoI literally told the last time
I saw him.
You know, doctor, I've neversaid this before to a doctor,
but I trust you and you knowI've had a lot of doctors in my
life.
(01:23):
My dad was a doctor.
I never said that to him.
I loved him.
But you know, as a doctor hedid things that I didn't
necessarily want done and Inever knew really what was going
on.
Something about this guy hespends time every time they do
an infusion.
He's the one who puts that inmy port, he actually told me.
(01:44):
He says you know, joe, they dida good job with your port, they
installed it well, and now whatdoctor's going to take the time
to notice that and share that?
Right?
Right, I mean, he really likehe pays attention to every
little thing.
He reminded me when we weretalking about like every time I
(02:05):
come to him with a thought or anidea, like I asked him the last
time, not the last time, thetime before that I saw him I
says well, you know, what do youthink about sauna?
Because I have a sweat lodge atmy place and we do that.
I do steam sauna and I knowthat cancer doesn't like heat
and it likes a cold environmentand anaerobic environment.
(02:25):
So you know, I've been doingthat.
But he said you know, joe, mywife loves the sauna, she loves
the steam sauna, but one timeshe burnt her lungs, you know.
You know, sometimes we steamjunkies we go a little too far,
you know you, you think you'reinvincible.
You crank that thing up, youtake a deep breath and, ooh ow,
(02:46):
you know you can get some hotsteam in there.
And he says you know, she gotan infection that turned into
pneumonia.
It turned out to be a problemfor her.
He says that generally doesn'thappen but it could.
And he says you know, I toldher there's an old Korean
technique that can avoid all ofthat.
(03:06):
It's kind of like an infraredsystem.
He goes you just take twobuckets, two five-gallon buckets
, and you put your feet in them.
And then you take hot water,hot as you can stand, and you
pour it over your feet and youjust keep that water, keep
adding to it until that, youknow, eventually the bucket
fills up.
But you keep it as hot as youcan stand.
(03:27):
And he says what happens isyour core will heat up.
You know your feet transmitheat pretty quickly and you know
, before you know it you'll besweating.
And he says you don't have toexpose your body to the outside
temperature the way that thesteam sauna does, and you don't
have to worry about breathing inall that steam and in fact you
(03:49):
don't even have to go inside aclosed room, a box.
You can sit outside and talk toyour wife or watch TV or work
on your computer, whatever youwant to do.
And I says, wow, what athoughtful gesture, right?
I mean for this guy, right,right, that's Dr.
Song what a thoughtful gesture,right, I mean for this right.
Right, that's dr song.
I have an alternative that'slike yeah, I agree, he goes, he
(04:10):
goes to me, he goes.
How did you know that?
You know the, the heat, I go,you know me, I'm always
researching, I go.
I'm always trying to find waysto make me stronger and the
cancer weaker, and he likes thatabout me.
He says you know, he didn't sayit, but I know.
When I ask him certainquestions he's like well, you're
actually thinking about thisand I can.
(04:30):
I think that's why he engagesme that way.
But then I watch him.
I sit in the infusion room right, and it's a small room, maybe
about I don't know eight bytwelve or something like that.
It's a pretty small room, threechairs in it, old fashioned.
You know UCI, they got thesereally fancy IV rigs and they've
(04:53):
got all these differentmonitors and sensors.
And you know you hook up fourbags at the same time and they
hook into these things.
He's got this old metal rack.
It's literally just a hook, ametal hook with an adjustable up
and down on it and wheels on.
That's all you need, I knowexactly.
And he hooks that bag up thereand it has a little sort of a
(05:17):
metering device.
It's just a simple little likea pinch thing and you lift it up
or down and let the thing drip,more or less.
But I watch him and he puts theneedle in everybody's port or if
they have another way that theydo it, and his partner does too
.
He's got this partner from Idon't know from Europe,
(05:41):
somewhere, I don't know where itmight be, germany, but he has
an accent, pretty strong accent,but this doctor does the same
somewhere, I don't know where itmight be, germany, but he has
an accent, pretty strong accent,but this doctor does the same
thing.
I've never seen a nurse or aphysician's assistant ever put
in or take out a needle.
It's always the actual doctorand I thought, man, that's
really special, that's unique,like at UCI.
(06:01):
I think UCI is doing a good job, I don't think anything ill of
them, but I've never seen adoctor.
When I'm getting an infusion,it's always a nurse or nurse
practitioner or some sort of a,not a doctor, and so it's a
different experience.
And so this last time you know,know, I got the infusion.
(06:26):
He gives me the, the dose oftaxol, half of it or no, no, he
gives me all the dose of taxol,half of the cisplatin, and then
he sends me home with the pumpwith the five fluoruracil, and
then friday I come back and hetakes the pump out and he gives
me the last, the cisplatin, andhe tells me about.
(06:49):
You know really what he's doing.
He asked me a lot of questions.
He takes blood.
Every time I see him he does ablood test, little finger test
and they check out.
I don't know what all they'relooking, but I see it.
I don't know what all they'relooking, but I see it.
I don't know what everythingstands for yet, but he knows,
prior to me doing that infusion,that my body's ready for it.
(07:12):
And if there's an issue,sometimes they'll say, well,
your protein's a little low.
And I go, I know my dietdoesn't allow me a lot of
protein, but I'm doing prettygood.
I know my diet doesn't allow mea lot of protein, but I'm doing
pretty good.
And he's like, yeah, you'reokay, just keep your eye on it.
And then he might wellgenerally after the infusion and
(07:39):
then the following week I go infor the immunotherapy.
So he gives me a few days offand then I go into the
immunotherapy and he does bloodthen too, and he'll say well,
you know, your white blood cellcounts down.
I says, well, you just gave mea whole bunch of chemo.
You know what do you think it'sgoing to do?
And he smiles, he goes.
(08:00):
I know he says but we're goingto watch you.
And sometimes he'll have me callin.
Last time he had me come in andhe was asking me a lot of
questions about my diet becausehe knows about my diet, and so
this time I came in he said well, I want you to come in Friday.
(08:22):
So I came in Wednesday to getthe Keytruda, the immunotherapy,
and then I came down Fridayjust to talk about the blood
result, because you know theyalways take blood.
I drove down there just to havea two-minute conversation with
him.
It was worth it.
And this guy sits with me and heasked me about my diet and he
(08:43):
said well, do you eat this?
Do you eat that?
Do you eat this, do you eatthat?
And I went through and and youknow some of the foods they said
yes to, some I said no to and Iexplained why.
Many understood.
And he had this little chart upon the wall and it's.
It says like uh, you know greenvegetables, um, you know onions
(09:05):
, beans, it's just you know it'sa good diet plan strategy and I
said I basically follow that.
You know I just am very carefulwith the protein, I don't.
You know I'm very careful withmy nuts, I'm very careful with
the legumes and you know there'sjust certain foods that I avoid
.
And he understood, you know hedidn't fight me on it.
He's still not sure I couldtell he kind of goes, you know
(09:25):
he says it's not hurting you, sohe's not telling me not to do
it.
He just still doesn'tnecessarily agree with.
I don't think he understandstruly the nature of what the
cancer's relationship withmethionine is.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
He doesn't understand , and the other day he asked you
if you're on glutaminerestriction or something Exactly
.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So because of that, I recognize that he knows very
well the things he knows, and heknows a lot more than any other
doctor I've ever talked toabout the things I'm dealing
with and this is a thing thatI'm not going to force down his
throat no, you don't need to.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And this is the thing that I'm not going to force
down his throat, but I can tellyou don't need to.
Oh, you, you, you, you, everyyou know we go with his strength
and he's got.
Maybe he's one of the leaders,if not the leader in the world,
and he doesn't have to knowanything about methionine.
We know about methionine.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Exactly, exactly about methionine, exactly
exactly, and so that's kind of abeauty that I I really wanted
to share with you, because I seehim recognizing the value of
what I'm doing withoutnecessarily understanding it,
and he's not telling me not todo it, he's he's just saying you
know, you go, do your thing,you're doing well.
And um, so this last time, thislast Friday, when I went out
(10:45):
there, I drove almost two hoursto go and see him for five
minutes, waited in his officefor an hour and a half before he
could see me and it was okay.
I just I smiled, I go, you know, but-.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, that five minutes is a treasure.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, when I went in there he ended up spending 15
minutes with me and he goes overevery little detail and he says
I said so how am I doing, doc?
I mean, you know what do youthink?
He says he says you're handlingthe medication, the chemo,
remarkably well.
And he says I know these drugs.
(11:18):
He goes every.
He reminded me that you know.
Again, he was on the team thatdiscovered cisplatin.
And he says you know, this isnot an easy treatment.
And he said but you're doingwell.
And he said you know you'rerecovering well, your white
blood cells have recovered.
And he hasn't had to give methat I forget the drug, but UCI
(11:41):
was always giving me after thefive fluors, so they gave me
this drug to cause my bonemarrow to produce white blood
cells better yeah, it's probablyone of these so-called colony
stimulating factors, somethinglike that?
yeah, I believe so.
So he said well, if you give itto you without you needing it,
(12:07):
it can kind of overstimulateyour system and maybe have some
negative side effects and youdon't need it.
Why take it Right?
So that's his thinking.
I'm like wow, great thinking,yeah, yeah, I mean you know His
mind is very clear oh my God,this guy's sharp as a tack and
(12:28):
again, his eyes aren't real good.
I see him.
He's got a magnifying glass.
He holds his glasses up to itwhen he needs to, but boom, boom
, boom, boom, boom.
Every little thing, everylittle detail.
He's on point and he's got agreat staff.
You can tell his nurses lovehim, his patients love him.
It's just a beautifulenvironment down there.
(12:52):
Had you not remembered that youknew him 40 years ago and
reached out to him, I know if Ihad cold called him and I just
discovered him on my own, hewouldn't have seen me.
No, he's not taking newpatients, but he remembered you
and you told him the story.
Maybe he remembered me, I don'tknow, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
(13:12):
But you told him a story insuch a way that he recognized
the value and he did take me,and I'm really, you know, still
kind of really taken by that.
That's really like it's part ofthis series of miracles that
have gotten me to the.
You know where I'm at now.
But what he said was you're,you're on a good road.
(13:34):
He's ordered an MRI.
Now I'm getting ready to takemy final round of this infusion.
And he said in his mind thatthis Keytruda is going to be our
maintenance.
He says I think that if we dothis right and it's working,
that that can be your, yourlong-term maintenance.
(13:55):
So he's already thinking thatwould be great.
I know, and I'm already doingwell with that, like I don't
seem to have any negative sideeffects from that.
I've had two rounds of it so farand it doesn't seem to like
right after I take it.
I haven't noticed anythingreally negative.
So hopefully, you know he'schecking my kidneys, he's
(14:17):
checking my.
You know all different.
He's monitoring a lot of stuff.
I see these blood results comeback and I don't know what they
all stand for because you knowthere's little abbreviations for
things and I haven't studiedthem all.
But the ones I do know, youknow the nutrients and the, the,
the um, uh, immunosystemmarkers and that kind of stuff.
(14:42):
I do recognize and I'm withinthe bounds with, you know, not a
flag on just about everything.
Anything I've been over orunder, it's been just by a hair,
so I've not really gone overany major line with this
protocol.
And the fact that he told methat you know he's expecting,
(15:05):
when I get these scans, thatwe're going to be complete, I'm
kind of excited about that.
Now the downside is and I'mbecoming very aware that this
chemo has sort of anaccumulative effect, because I
know that each round that I'vegotten in this second version
(15:30):
has hit me a little harder, andby that I mean, you know, the
nausea has been fairlyconsistent and been difficult to
keep my weight, getting myweight back.
So, like this time around, Idon't think I'm going to do a
full fast, I'm going to dofasting, mimicking, and I'll be
OK with that.
I just I didn't gain all myweight back this time, even
(15:52):
though I've been tryingno-transcript.
(16:20):
If I feel tired, I just sleep.
I said that's what my bodyneeds right now.
I'm not worried about it.
Only one more to go, joe.
Exactly, exactly, one more.
I'm kind of looking at it likeMuhammad Ali.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
When you poke yourself, what do you feel?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, I can definitely feel this thing.
The little bit of hardness thatis left is getting smaller and
I can feel both sides of my neckfeeling a lot more the same now
.
So we're definitely makingprogress in the last of it, and
remember, you remember how bigthat thing was?
(16:59):
I know oh boy, the grapefruit.
I know Exactly and I know for afact that some of this mass is
just necrotic tissue, it's justdead tissue.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
It seems that way, and we will prove that with
methionine pet in Japan.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Exactly Exactly that with methionine pet in Japan.
Exactly exactly.
So I'm kind of getting excitedthat you know we're going to,
we're going to, he's going todeclare full remission and that
there's no cancer left.
Now we still know that it'slikely there's stem cells and
circulating tumor cells thatwill have to be dealt with on a
regular basis.
But you know what everybody has, those that will have to be
(17:37):
dealt with on a regular basis.
But you know what Everybody has, those and it's not that-.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well, you're going to stay on methionine restriction
and you'll go on Keytrudamaintenance Exactly Sounds good
and we'll monitor.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Exactly, exactly.
And the way I see it, when I goto Japan and I get the all
clear, we'll set a plan thatsays well, every whatever year
18 months, two years, whateverwe determine that sort of magic
number is we'll go back and doit again, Hopefully, you know,
my hope really is that thetechnology finds its way over
(18:12):
here and stays here.
You know, we know we have it.
They do brain scans with it,Right, but they do.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
There's a few clinics that do brain scans but they
don't do the full body scan.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Not that I know of it's hard to come.
I've never seen it Exactly soand hell.
I've never been to Japan andI've heard nothing but amazing
about it.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
you're going to love it.
Scott had the time of his life.
I heard that.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
I heard that, so the last time I saw you, you had
just done this interview with aRussian.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, Russian TV.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, and I did end up seeing that.
Now I went to see it live and Idon't know, maybe they must
have played it like later on,but I watched it from 9 till
probably 9, 30 and it was.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Did you get the video recording?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
yeah, I finally saw the video recording of it so I
was able to see.
Did you get?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
the translated text.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I did yep, yep, I got both of that, so I was able to
um, thanks to shihiro and youguys and cynthia.
I think she's the one who putthat together.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
I don't know who did it, but oh, shihiro put it
together, okay, and it was DrExame who got the translation
through his.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
AI, I love it.
I love it.
Well, that just shows thebeauty of this team.
When I see the group that meetson Sundays, I look at it as a
team.
You've got all these people.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
It's a team.
You got all these people.
It's a team and.
Joe, I'll tell you, and for thefolks listening, I really
appreciated what the Russian TVdid.
So the whole theme was based onan interview of Joe Rogan and
Mel Gibson Got it.
And Mel Gibson goes on and saysI have three friends and they
(19:59):
were stage four cancer and allthey took was ivermectin,
fenbendazole and methylene blueand they're all cancer free.
Right, of course that's a realhard one to believe, right, of
course that's a real hard one tobelieve, right?
(20:21):
So at the first, I don't knowwhat exactly came through on the
interview, but the first thingthey asked me is what do you
think about that?
I said it has no meaning for mebecause I only take information
from peer-reviewed papers inrecognized journals.
(20:41):
That's what I said.
And then they said are youworried that patients will
refuse standard therapy and dowhat Mel Gibson said to do?
And I said well, my patientsdon't refuse standard therapy,
(21:03):
right, that's what I said.
Those are basically the mainpoints.
Is, you know, people get on andthey're so glib and they talk.
Oh and then you know it was allabout a conspiracy.
The pharmaceutical companiesdon't want you to know about
(21:28):
ivermectin.
In my experience, joe, my ownexperience the pharmaceutical
companies don't even have anyidea whether you know ivermectin
or don't know ivermectincompletely out of their radar.
They don't give a darn.
What about that?
They're out to sell their drugs.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Exactly that's why they buy commercials.
That's yeah, they're out tomake money.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
No, hey, yes, hey.
What a revelation.
Commercial company wants tomake money.
So you know all this conspiracytherapy theories, I don't buy
it.
The pharmaceutical companypeople say to me why aren't the
pharmaceutical companiesinterested in methionine?
(22:14):
They don't see it to make anymoney, they don't see making
money from it.
It's not cool, likeimmunotherapy and Keytruda, and
fashionable.
I get it, but it's nothing todo with conspiracy, it's just
human nature.
These companies want to make abuck.
We, little or less we say whatthey make is, is, is, uh,
(22:44):
necessary, but for for a lot ofthe time, a lot of the patients,
it's not, it's not sufficient.
We need more, we need to add onto it absolutely that's what we
want to do.
So you know, like Dr Exame says,standard therapy gives you
(23:04):
standard outcome.
Okay, standard outcome is aheck of a lot better than
nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
But we want to improve it.
Right, yeah, three to fiveyears is great, if that's all
you think you have to live.
But the answer is about solvingthe problem Many patients.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
we can do better.
We think so.
We haven't proved it, but a lotof patients are doing well,
like you.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Right, you've got Dr Exime, you've got Gene, you've
got Chihiro, you've got Cynthia,you've got all these people
that are yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And a whole ton of patients in Japan, 20 years from
now, all these thingsDisappearing?
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yes, you know, and that's huge.
And I think there's anotherlayer to this, doc, and it has
to do with quality of life andyou know the the standard of
care only solution generallyincludes one or more very
invasive, very disruptive,potentially devastating answers,
(24:10):
meaning extended radiation.
I'm not saying all radiation'sbad.
There's some people that havedone very well.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Joe, if we need it, it's there for us Exactly, and
there's times when we have nochoice.
We need it, but in your case wehad a choice.
It was clear.
We had a choice.
At some point we think there'sno choice, we're going to use it
.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Oh you bet.
I mean, my goal is to stayalive and and give myself the
very best quality of life that Ican, that I can muster.
That's exactly what you'redoing.
Yeah, absolutely, and I, Ithink you know, in talking to
various different doctors andyou know, I've, I've been
blessed, I've had a lot of greatguests on the show in the last
several months and somephysicians.
(24:59):
I talked to a plastic surgeonlast week from Beverly Hills.
He's probably real close to DrCastro where he operates from,
but this guy was actually a goodguy.
You think plastic surgeon,you're like, ah, you're just,
you know, whatever You're takingcare of, the movie stars.
But the truth is a lot ofplastic surgery is
reconstructive.
A lot of it has way more to dowith healing and health than
(25:24):
just, you know, vanity work, andit's not all cosmetic at all.
No, no.
And but the point was, is thisguy's approach was let's do the
least harmful thing to get themost results?
And I said, wow, I wish moreoncologists would think that way
, you know, and it doesn't seemthat the standard of care has
(25:50):
that approach it has.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's how you use the standard of care Correct
Standard of care has surgery, ithas chemotherapy and we'll
consider the immunotherapy aspart of chemotherapy, I believe.
So yeah, and it has radiology.
Okay, how are we going to useit?
Right, if we're going to dowhat they told you to do at UCI
(26:17):
take the chemo and getirradiated at the same time and
get a surgery?
That didn't seem very smart tome.
I don't know if you remember,mark, mark Lichty came over,
came and visited us and he saidhe's going to get chemo and or
(26:40):
androgen ADT, androgendeprivation therapy and
radiation.
I said, hey, mark, why you needthe radiation right now?
Let's ADT is really powerful.
Let's start with that, let'ssee how you do.
We can always come back for theradiation.
The ADT is not sufficient.
(27:00):
And he really listened.
I think he may go that way.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's fantastic and I think that's one of the real
powers of the group, because alot of times we get a new person
that comes in and they justcame back from their first trip
to the oncologist.
You know, they just gotdiagnosed and the first
recommendation that they receiveis you know, well, we're going
(27:23):
to do this.
And you know to anybody who'sever been diagnosed or has a
loved one who's been diagnosed,it's like a two by four across
your skull.
You know, you just are all of asudden going whoa, I'm a
healthy person.
Now they're telling me I havecancer.
And it's hard to swallow, nomatter who you are, no matter
(27:46):
what happens, no matter what,even if it's a seemingly minor
thing, you know, it's still likewow, that's for reals now.
And I think, whatever thedoctor tells you after that,
you're kind of in a fog, likeyou're like whoa, you know, and
I don't think you're ever goingto, no matter who you are, I
(28:09):
don't think you're ever going toprocess that.
Well, whoops, I think we lostyou for a second.
Hello, okay, okay, okay, yeah,all right, no worries, let me
put you on speaker then.
All right, all right, kim, youhear me okay.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I hear you really good.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
All right, perfect, we're going to do a hybrid
solution here.
Okay, one of these days we'regoing to have to get you a new
phone.
I know that phone.
You put that thing to a lot ofwork.
I see that thing overheat a fewtimes.
But anyways, we get these peoplethat come on to the Sunday
(28:57):
afternoon call and they've justbeen hit with this diagnosis and
it's like a ton of bricks andeven if you're a loved one, to
hear that your loved one hasbeen diagnosed with cancer and
we all know that, even if theysay, oh well, it's very
treatable, any cancer, can turninto a death sentence, sure, and
(29:21):
then they tell you, well, thisis what we're going to do.
And you know what?
You really can't process it.
You know, it's just like you,just kind of it's like you got
sucker punched and you're justsitting here, kind of like the
little cartoon birdies flyingaround your head and and you
just go.
Okay, you know, I and a lot ofpeople, what I'm finding out,
(29:45):
especially in this group thatI'm in on Facebook with the
squamous cell carcinoma people,is that a lot of people get
diagnosed and then they have towait weeks or even months to get
that first appointment and youknow if you're dealing with an
aggressive cancer like head andneck squamous cell carcinoma,
(30:06):
weeks and months can make adifference.
When it's spreading or, youknow, developing a blood system
or all the different things thathappen.
You can't give it any extratime and it kind of blows me
away that you know that you cango from a biopsy diagnosis and
(30:29):
then have to wait weeks or amonth to see an oncologist.
But that's just our system, Iguess right now the way it is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, you have to be very proactive and not tolerate
that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
You're not going to see me, then I'm going to go see
somebody else.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
If you have a cancer, you just can't be passive about
it, although part of thepatients are.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Many people are.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I think that that's a big part of what this group is.
The importance of this group is, you know, we share that
urgency and take charge ofyourself exactly, and when they
see somebody do it, it'sgenerally a lot easier to do it
yourself.
You know, like, yes, when, whenyou're out there in the, in the,
(31:20):
in the field, all by yourself,and you don't know anything and
you're just like, well, I don'tknow what to do, but I know I
need to do something and youknow you try whatever.
But when you got somebodystanding next to you going, all
right, well, you know, here'ssome things I did.
At least it gives you some kindof a map or a guidebook that
(31:40):
says, well, okay, and I believethat this group has probably
helped more than a handful ofpeople.
Oh for sure, get on the helpedmore than a handful of people.
Oh for sure, get on the courseof a lot of people, just a lot
of people.
Not even just getting better,but actually probably save some
lives, is what my guess is.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
And I think that you know you've got to be awful
proud of that and know that youknow you're the heart of this
thing.
There wouldn't be a, therewouldn't be a Sunday afternoon
group if there wasn't a DrHoffman.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So we're all in it together, Joe, all contributing.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
We are absolutely so.
I always like to get to alittle piece of this.
It's it's not a.
It's not little because it'snot important.
It's little because there'salways tidbits that come out and
that I learned from, and I knowthat others, the listeners, do
as well.
You talk so much about.
You know the publishedpeer-reviewed sources of
(32:41):
information, as that's where youwork from, that's where you get
your information from.
But it's more than that.
You contribute to these things.
You have published more papersthan anybody I know, by a long
shot, but by even mostphysicians, most researchers.
(33:03):
You just have an extensiverange of papers that you've
published and I know justrecently there was a paper that
came out.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about that?
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Okay, so this is a patient in Japan and she was
diagnosed with breast cancer.
She was diagnosed with breastcancer and I don't, I don't know
what happened, but she gotliterally whole body metastasis,
Yikes, and this.
So she went to see our Dr Satoin in Japan and in the flowers
(33:47):
away from Tokyo in Japan, in theflowers away from Tokyo, and he
started her on a type ofimmunotherapy, his special kind
of X-ray, which is not reallythe radiation treatment we think
about, and she started onmethioninase and a low
(34:10):
methionine diet and in I don'tknow five months or a relatively
short time, she cleared allmetastasis except in her liver.
And that's what we published.
And Dr Sato told me veryrecently she's now just on
(34:35):
methionine restriction and maybea little bit glucose
restriction and the livermetastasis is regressing Nice.
So that's the story in thatpaper.
The paper only goes to thepoint of metastasis clearing,
except the liver, and maybewe'll publish a follow-up paper
(34:56):
after her liver is cleared.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But that is so.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
No, I was going to say that is just so remarkable.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
It's remarkable I mean, you look at the image,
it's a regular PET scan, right,she's just full of metastasis,
yeah, and she clears.
And she is.
The Japanese have a specialkind of comic book, much more
sophisticated than our comicbooks.
(35:29):
Okay, it's called Manga, uh-huh, and she is a manga.
She does kind of medical manga,medical comic books, okay, and
she draws, wow, comic books.
All right, and she's going todo a manga story based on her
(35:49):
own cancer therapy.
Wow, she's gonna do it I loveit.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
love it now.
I don't know the statistics,but it's what I understand and
and the information I'vereceived is that most people
when metastasis has gone to thatplace where it's spread,
generally it's a death sentence,Like there's not Well her
(36:18):
hospital told her to go tohospice.
Right.
Instead she went to Dr Sato.
I love it.
I love it Because, if you thinkabout it, there's no surgery
that can operate, because it'sspread out throughout your body.
There's no radiation that youcan't treat, because radiation
is a localized treatment andchemotherapy generally by itself
(36:41):
isn't strong enough to knockout something that's spread in
all these different systems,because there's different kinds
of chemo for different kinds ofsystems and it doesn't seem like
I mean, I think most people,when, when, when you say
metastasize throughout your body, that to me says well, you're,
(37:01):
you know you're done, you knowthere isn't anybody says yes but
we've learned from her it's notnecessarily so.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
It may be in some cases Sure, but it's not
necessarily so.
And so somehow she was smartenough and lucky enough to
contact Dr Sato.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
And she's going to live.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Sounds like Dr Sato is kind of like our Dr Song out
here.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
He's a kind of Dr Song.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
A kind of modern Dr Song.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
I mean he's got all the newtools and all the things, but Dr
Song is working magic with thechemo tools.
Oh, you bet he is, you bet heis I strove.
Yeah, no, there's just no doubtat all, and I believe this
other doctor that he's workingwith is probably kind of a nut.
(38:00):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
name of this other doctor.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I don't know him offhand.
I'll take a picture of thething and I'll get it.
That's one thing.
That this has hit me so hard ismy memory Just remembering
little things has been it'scalled chemo brain Joe.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I tell you Clear up.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
You know it's so funny, robert.
I've had people in my life tellme about this and I always kind
of poo-pooed it.
I was like, yeah, whatever, youknow, it's like in my mind,
it's like depression.
I never had it, so I neverunderstood it.
I never had empathy, and boy, Igot an empathy bucket now.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
It clears up.
Chihiro had it.
Almost everybody has it.
Yeah, it clears up.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
No, I expect that I'm looking forward to you know
again.
That's where I say this chemosolution to me has been a
godsend Because, as far as Iunderstand and the doctor's
monitoring my kidneys very wellunless I was to not hydrate
myself enough it could do damageto the kidneys and possibly
(39:04):
Platinum attacks the kidneyRight.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's why Dr Song is being so careful.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And he gives me hydration withevery infusion and I'm always
drinking.
I'm always drinking water,coconut water, smoothies.
I'm a drinking fool.
Tea, I'm always.
You know, I'm constantly.
I monitor my urine color, Imean if it gets a little darker
than a little nice and clear I'mon, I'm on it.
(39:31):
So, yeah, I I feel very strongand confident that, um, you know
, my kidneys are going to comeout just fine and when I'm done
with this thing I'm going tocompletely recover, because
remember, I went almost eightweeks between cycles and I was
recovering remarkably well.
(39:52):
My hair was starting to growback and my head was getting
clearer.
The taste was leaving my mouth,I was putting weight on pretty
strong.
So I'm looking forward togetting back to that and I don't
think the Keytruda has thatkind of a side effect.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
No, no, Keytruda's different.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm excited.
I know that you submitted thatcase study on my case.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
It's right on schedule now.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
My guess is it'll come out about the beginning of
November.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I love it.
I can't wait to share that withDr Song.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, now you see what I'm saying.
Exactly, exactly.
He'll look at it a littledifferently after that.
I'm very confident.
I am too.
So anyways, well, robert, it'sa treat.
I feel like it's been way toolong since we talked, and I'm
glad that we're catching up.
(40:52):
Me too, I look forward to it.
Monday I get my infusion, butwe'll see how I'm doing.
I started really early thistime, so it's possible we'll be
able to come by and drop by andsee you this time.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, okay, All right .
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Well, thank you once again for joining us to come by
and drop by and see you thistime.
Okay, okay, so all right.
Well, thank you once again forjoining us.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
This has been.
It's been my pleasure, Joe,always to be on your program.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I love it.
I believe we're helping people.
I get people that tell me Allyou need to do is listen.
Exactly, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and we will see.
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