May 22, 2025 • 27 mins
A revolutionary cancer treatment story unfolds on this episode as host Joe Grumbine shares stunning progress in his personal battle against head and neck cancer. The tumor that once dominated his appearance has shrunk dramatically—now less than a third of its original size—thanks to a groundbreaking approach combining strategic fasting, methionine restriction, and targeted chemotherapy.
Joined by renowned cancer researcher Dr. Robert Hoffman, Joe reveals how his oncologist was "blown away" by his results. The medical team that initially pushed for aggressive radiation and surgery now watches in amazement as Joe's carefully researched alternative protocol delivers remarkable results with minimal side effects. "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it," his doctor told him—words that validate months of disciplined adherence to a metabolic approach targeting cancer's unique vulnerabilities.
This conversation goes beyond personal triumph to address the broader implications for cancer treatment. Dr. Hoffman, who has published hundreds of scientific papers since 1976, is documenting Joe's case for publication in the medical literature. Together, they're creating a blueprint for others while building a community of informed patients committed to fighting cancer intelligently. The episode highlights that successful treatment requires unwavering dedication and continuous learning—"You can never let up, not one inch," as Joe emphasizes. For anyone facing cancer or supporting someone who is, this compelling discussion demonstrates how knowledge, commitment, and scientific innovation can change outcomes and potentially transform the standard of care.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today, once again, we have
Dr Robert Hoffman joining us.
Robert, how are you doing today?
I'm doing good, joe.
How are you?
I am fantastic.
It's a great day to be alive andit's a great day to have a
tumor smaller than it wasyesterday.
What do you think about that?
So we've been walking down thisroad now for a few months and
(00:30):
it's been quite a journey.
We had some uphills and somedownhills and some obstacles,
and we're learning about scienceand changing paradigms, and
this has become quite a robustconversation, wouldn't you say?
Yeah, I think so.
So the last time we started inon other things.
(00:55):
This time I'd like to jump intothe update and then we'll get
into some other things.
When we last spoke, I wasgetting ready to do my second
session of chemotherapy andremember this is the
chemotherapy that we presentedto the medical oncologist not
(01:17):
the, not the regimen that theyhad in mind, which was going to
be a lot more toxic and includeradiation, and fortunately we
delivered it well enough thatthey accepted the notion and
inside of it I had my one-twopunch, and we've been working
(01:40):
really hard on this diet andfasting and oxygen therapy, and
the whole idea was that thisthing was going to make the
chemotherapy work extra good andgive me reduced amount of side
effects.
And it's done exactly that.
So Monday I went in and I and II was right on my point I did
(02:03):
my three-day fast.
I've been taking extramethionine A's I said nothing
for that cancer in preparationfor this chemotherapy.
I've been getting good sleep.
I think that's a big factor inall this.
My appetite's been strong inspite of the nausea side effects
(02:27):
from the chemotherapy.
I've really not needed only thesmallest amount of cannabis a
couple of times really is all Ineeded to knock that down.
So Monday I go in.
Well, friday I went in and gotmy blood work and I had talked
to the doctor on Friday.
(02:48):
That's when I had the Zoommeeting with the medical
oncologist and she was so blownaway.
She just I mean her reaction.
I wish I would have recorded itbecause it was just wide eyed
and just smiling.
She was so happy and you know,basically her response was
(03:09):
whatever you're doing, keepdoing it.
And that was the response wehad hoped for.
And I asked her about gettingthese circulating tumor blood
tests and she says no, that'sreally not in her wheelhouse to
order.
She just didn't see the.
You know it wasn't somethingshe was going to do, but she did
(03:31):
order the virus load.
This is a virus caused tumor.
So there is a marker that showsthe virus load in the
bloodstream.
That she believes is a bettermarker for this.
And she said that because therewas such a hassle with
switching over the regimen andthen the delay in the port that
(03:54):
somehow that order got lost inthe shuffle.
So she reordered it and Mondaywhen I went in to get the
chemotherapy they took my bloodfor that test.
So we're going to have abaseline marker.
The last time it was taken wasNovember, so we'll have a mark
(04:16):
from November till now and thenwe'll begin that in my regular
regimen.
The good news is thechemotherapy, the precursor
blood work, was on point.
They said everything was inline.
So I had been.
I was low on magnesium and I'veincreased that medical food,
(04:39):
the hominics, and that's pretty.
It's got a pretty good, notjust amino acids but it's got a
pretty good spectrum of mineralsand things in it too.
So I've upped that to twice aday and I think it's helped
balance keeping my proteinlevels good without bringing in
(05:01):
the cysteine and methionine.
So I'm really modulating this alot and paying attention to
everything that's going into mybody and when, and all of that.
I was able to maintain my weightthis time.
So when I got off the fast Iwas still in a healthy range and
I got to tell you what wasexpected was a worse effect.
(05:30):
Like right now I have a pump onand I have this port and it's
pumping this five fluorosil intomy body.
At every 30 seconds or so itputs another little pump in
(05:51):
there and I've got about well.
I get it taken out on saturday.
So the last time we did this Idid the same round.
I we did chemotherapy on monday.
On tuesday or wednesday, I feltreally good and I went out and
overworked myself.
Thursday I was beat.
We didn't have.
(06:11):
We ended up doing the podcast,I think the next day yeah time,
um, it's been much better.
I actually, the next morning Iwent on a hike.
I said I'm just going to seewhat I can do.
I, before I broke my fast, Isaid I'm going to just go walk
up the hill and see how far Ican get.
(06:32):
And I got up to the top of thehill I watched the sunrise,
walked back down.
I was a little wobbly, I wasreal careful walks, but I
carried my pump up there andeverything and I said you know
what, if I can do that, thatthat really puts me over over a
(06:53):
hump.
And, um, I've been reallypaying attention now.
So I'm, I'm working, goingoutside, getting some things
done.
Then I feel a little quiet, goin and take a nap and I'm
letting myself recover.
I didn't.
The nausea has been mild thistime.
I asked the doctor to cut backon the nausea medication that
(07:13):
they put in the IV.
They give it to you initiallyand I she, she cut it back to
one of the two medicines and Ididn't have the side effects of
the constipation and theheadache at all.
So I was able once again tomitigate a little adjustment and
I got almost no side effectfrom it.
(07:35):
The fluorosil causes mouthulcers and the last time it got
me pretty good and the problemwith that obviously is it makes
it hard to eat and you got toeat.
And the problem with thatobviously is it makes it hard to
eat and you got to eat, and sothis time I preemptively started
swishing my mouth with.
I get this buffered salinesolution and it really helps to
(08:00):
keep it off, and I use the um,the glycerin, ozonated glycerin.
I swish with that too, so sofar my mouth is good.
Um, I'm really I'm poweringthrough this.
This time I didn't, I didn'treally have a down day and I, as
you can see, the tumor hasgotten.
(08:22):
It's less than half of what itwas and this is really much less
.
It's about down to a third, Ithink, of what it was, maybe
even less than that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Been less than four weeks Right out, but I don't
(08:58):
care.
I think I look just fine and Icouldn't care less.
Anyways, I'd rather have a, nohair and a and no tumor than all
the hair and a tumor.
There you go.
So I think that what I've beenable to do with this now is my
voice.
People are noticing I, I, I'm,I'm strong.
(09:19):
But the people aren't evenlistening to my me talking on
the phone.
They're like, wow, you soundgreat.
And I says, well, you know, mystrength is returning.
My, my, I'm a long way frombeing done.
I tell everybody, you know what?
What people think is thatyou're looking better, so we're
good.
And you know as well as I dothis is not over.
(09:39):
It's actually never over for menow.
But even the big battle, Ican't let up one inch.
You know if I give this thingan inch, it'll come back
ferociously.
You can never let up, never,never, and that's the lesson
that people need to learn.
I had a lady come over.
You know now that people knowthat I'm getting ahead of this.
(10:01):
People are coming around askingquestions.
More cancer patients arereaching out to me now and I'm
sending them the link to thecall on Sunday and I believe
more and more people are goingto start to pop in and get some
understanding.
You know, I talked to this oneguy or this lady who came over a
(10:23):
couple days ago and she saidher son-in-law had I think it
was.
It was an internal cancer thatwas pretty bad, pancreatic I
think it was one of the realones you don't want and it was
aggressive.
It was stage four, metastasized, and the guy was doing what I
was doing he cut the sugar out,cut the carbs out, and he's
(10:46):
eating protein and he's down toa hundred pounds.
And I'm like you can't.
You got to get this guy to stop.
And he had the same problem Ihad.
I believed I was going to healmyself and he's like it's okay,
god's going to heal me and I'mlike you know what?
That's not how it works.
You got to do the work.
You know you might get healed,but you got to do the work and
(11:07):
you got to learn and you got toget smart.
And I just told her.
I said you know, I can tell youwhat I know, but he's got to
accept it and you can't force itdown his throat.
I gave him, I gave her thecontact.
I gave her the contact I gaveher.
You know the basics.
I told her about methionine, Itold her about you, I told her
about my experience, and youknow that's really what I could
(11:29):
do.
But the thing that's great is,people are reaching out and I
think that we're going to beable to take this case and use
it, because it's undeniable.
I sent you all those pictures.
What'd you think about all that?
Fantastic, you know.
So what's your thoughts about?
You know how we're writing up acase report now.
(11:51):
I love that.
So what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We're going to publish.
We're going to publish yourresults.
We want to wait a little morebefore we would like to, you
know, see it shrink a bit more,but we already have a great
result.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Absolutely, and I'm continuing to take two pictures
a day, so I have another file.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Send them on to me, joe.
I will, I will, and so we'regoing to publish it.
The paper will be on PubMed.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I love it.
Everybody can read it.
I love it, you know.
That's where I wanted to go.
Next, you know this.
This is you.
You have an instrumental rolein this in two places.
One is obviously your wealth ofexperience, and now you have
this group of people that arethat are utilizing the tools
(12:39):
that you put out there andsharing their experiences, which
is helping us all.
But two, you're a professionalin the industry and, whether
everybody respects your work ornot, you are in a league where
you can publish these findingsand they'll be peer reviewed,
(13:00):
and I think that's powerful.
And not only that, but you'redoing it.
How many papers have youpublished on this topic?
A?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
few hundred.
There you go.
There you go First paper was1976 on this topic, wow.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And so you know that makes you one of the world's
foremost scholars on thissubject.
I know there are other peoplethat have done work before you
and there's other people doingthis work, but you're really you
know they've named it theHoffman effect for a reason, and
you know this is.
I'm actually really excited tobe part of this, in this element
(13:43):
, because, as horrible as You'rea pioneer, joe yes, absolutely,
you're a poster boy.
Kuhn's book, you know, onscientific revolution not every
(14:07):
pioneer mattered.
People did, have done amazingwork over the years and it never
got seen.
And this, I believe we have achance to piggyback on top of
all the other work you're doingand all these other case studies
and I'm not going to be quietabout it, I'll take this to
anybody who will hear me and Ithink we're going to be able to
(14:29):
make a change with it.
At least help you know, one ata time.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
One at a time is okay .
Well, and it doesn't have to beanother funeral Every time we
get a serious patient Right, apatient that's going to really
you know I'm not interested inthese dilettantes that come in,
they try it, they go away.
Whatever that's a waste ofmethioninase yes, that are going
(14:57):
to really really get into it,be diligent and also do tons of
reading.
That's the kind of patient Iwant.
Exactly Well that's what I bringto the table.
I wanted me to hire him to do anew website.
I said no.
I said our main website isPubMed.
(15:20):
Oh, a lot of people don'tunderstand PubMed.
I say that's the point.
I want the patients that canunderstand it.
Yes, I want the intelligentpatient that's going to really
understand what they have to doto get better.
I agree, and that's where Idirect everybody.
I don't waste my time onpatients who don't get it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well, not only that, even if they get it and they
think they get it, there's acommitment that most people
don't have Absolutely, andthat's what I tell people.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a really, really big thing.
Without the commitment, they'rewasting the methioninase,
wasting our time and throwingaway their life.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And it's hard.
I mean you know, but I tellpeople you know what else is
hard.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's difficult and requires a high level of
intelligence.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It is All of it.
All of it, and you know I'mconfident that I'm doing the
very best that I can and as I'mlearning more, I'm adjusting as
needed and I'm willing to makeany adjustments that we got to
do.
My goal is to live a long andhealthy life.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, and we have to.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
we all have to learn, every day learn learn, learn
Exactly, Exactly, and that's, Ithink that's one of the problems
we get.
That's what I had.
One of my biggest problems wasI knew too much.
I knew already what I knew andI didn't want to hear anything
else at first.
And then, once I got hit withthat, you know you have this
(16:49):
disease.
It changed everything.
I says, well, I obviouslydidn't know what I thought I
knew and I got to get startlearning again and that's that's
how I stumbled on.
You was just reading, I wasjust learning and reading.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You read the scientific papers, not some
bullshit website.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Exactly.
And you know, I think it'simportant that and I tell people
I go, if you're going to listento anybody, you got to listen
to somebody who's done it andyou got to listen to information
that's been reviewed, and thenyou have a place to start.
And just because somebody'sdone it doesn't mean it's going
to work for you.
You just have to say, well, howdid you get to where you're at?
(17:31):
And that's where this group isso important, where everybody
nobody has the same story, butwe all have a lot in common and
we're sharing the differencesalong with what's in common.
And I think that's reallypowerful, because the thing we
have in common is the knowledgeof this diet, the knowledge of
(17:51):
this enzyme, the knowledge ofwhat it does, and then all the
differences come out, all thedifferent.
You know, a lot of people haveprostate cancer, so they have
certain tests that they do, andthen some people have, you know,
fully metastasized aggressivecancers that they're going after
.
And you know, then we haveShahiro and myself, who have
(18:15):
this great story of a tumorgoing away, and we have, you
know, emil, dr Exime, and hisamazing story of, four and a
half years later, still here andfighting through it and you
know these are just tools thatyou're not going to find in
(18:37):
somebody's book and you're notgoing to find in some website
that's telling you to buy anextract or a fruit or something,
that's for sure.
So when you're going along andyou know you've written all
these papers, is there, is theresome kind of a I don't know
(18:59):
some kind of a marker orsomething that you go ha, I know
this is something that I needto write about.
Like how do you know, as you'regoing along, that you've got
the next thing to go after?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, when we write up the clinical reports which
we've written, 12 so far wechoose the patients that have
gotten a good result and wethink that should be shared with
the public, so we publish it.
In science we do experiments.
We try to learn more aboutmethionine addiction.
We try to learn more about howwe can more effectively target
(19:35):
it, kill the cancer cells betterwithout hurting the normal
cells, what we can combine withmethioninase be it ivermectin,
chloroquine, rapamycin, allkinds of interesting things.
So we get a good result that wethink adds to our knowledge or
adds to our ability to help thepatient we want to publish it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I'm curious about.
You know, I've always been a.
I call myself a tinkerer.
I formulate things and you knowI work with natural formulas
and I of course experiment onmyself before I think I'm going
to give anything to anybody else.
And you know I always startwith the safety first and work
with ingredients that I knowwhat they're going to do, and
(20:20):
then we test it and see howeffective they might be.
But that's very unscientificreally.
I mean, it's just tinkering, Idon't.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Well, a lot of science is tinkering too,
gathering information Exactlyand trying to make sense out of
it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And when you're working with things like herbals
, there's so many compounds tothem you can never really know
what's doing what.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
No, but we can identify herbs that we think
have helped patients, that's agood tool.
We don't need to know everycompound inside Exactly.
If we identify an herb that'shelping people with cancer,
that's good.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I agree.
That's why I do it, and I don'ttry to necessarily understand
every molecular mechanism.
I observe what's happening.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
We can't do it Exactly Right now.
The most important thing is tobe practical Right Patients that
need help yes and, uh, thestandard therapy.
For a lot of cancers you getthe standard result right
(21:32):
five-year survival 10.
We don't want that.
No, we've got to improve onthat.
Yes, so we start with thestandard therapy and we improve
it.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right Agreed, and you know there's two elements to
this.
Like like their standardtherapy was going to be very
detrimental to my long-termhealth the way they proposed it,
and we came up with a standardtherapy that met their standard
of care, so they didn't rejectit.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's a standard of care, right?
Um, it's not an unstandardcombination.
Chemotherapy for squamous cellhead and neck cancer is standard
of care, right.
There are options that youroncologist wanted to add
radiation, right?
Uh, the radiologist probablywouldn't care if there was chemo
(22:23):
or not, he'd just do he, she doradiation.
The surgeon just wanted to dosurgery.
Yep, you can still haveradiation later if the chemo
reaches a point where it can'tshrink it anymore.
We'll consider radiationAbsolutely.
We'll even possibly considersurgery, depending on how
disfiguring it's going to be.
(22:43):
But I think there's a goodchance we won't have to go there
.
Why your tumor should stopshrinking.
I don't think so I think it'sgoing to keep shrinking.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
What she said was you know, initially there was a lot
of inflammation that went downalong with the tumor, so that
the first, the first shrinkingwas so dramatic because there
was a lot of inflammation.
She said what's likely tohappen as the tumor is getting
to more massive area that'sshrinking, that there's going to
(23:15):
be necrotic tissue that'll takemore time to dissipate.
And she said you might come toa point where it seems like it's
not really shrinking much, butit's just because your body
takes longer to process thatback into whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What's your well, um, I mean, you've shrunk so much
already, I know, I mean what Ithink.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm just going to keep going.
I think it's just.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I looked at a picture that I took last year.
I'm getting ready to go on myannual trip to the Sierras and
last year about the same time, Ilooked at the picture and I'm
pretty confident that I my tumoris smaller than it was last
year at this time.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And that's incredible .
Speaker 2 (24:08):
There's no reason to think it's not going to keep
shrinking.
Not at all, I'm confident it'sgoing to.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Just like Chihiro.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
We don't know this for sure, but it keeps shrinking
.
So why are we?
Okay, keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Exactly that's where I'm at and I'm being more
diligent with my regimen.
I'm not backing off one ounceand you know, everybody that
comes around says, oh, you'relooking so great.
I'm like, yeah, I'm staying'mstaying on point and we'll keep
on, keep on going.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So I am.
That's what we need to do, joe.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Exactly Well.
I'm excited to keep sharingthis with you and looking
forward to continuing.
I'll send you over the nextround of pictures.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Please, it's a handful.
My young student is so excitedabout writing up your case
report.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Excellent.
Well, I'm excited to be sharingit.
Hey Joe, I look forward tocontinuing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's going to be available to the whole world.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I love it.
Well, we're changing a paradigmhere and there will one day be
a world where this is part ofstandard of care and people will
understand it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's an unstoppable force.
Yes, it just has its owntimeline.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Exactly.
Well, I'm here to push itforward.
Thank you for being here, asalways, robert, we'll see you.
Thank you, joe.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Thank you for being such a wonderful super patient
that does everything I wantevery other patient to do.
I just want to live a long,healthy life.
Yeah, and you will, and so manyother of the patients can do it
too, if they follow your lead.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Exactly.
All right, Robert, we'll seeyou next time.
Thank you for being here.
Okay, we'll see you on Sunday,Joe.
All right, take care.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Okay.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today, once again, we have
Dr Robert Hoffman joining us.
Robert, how are you doing today?
I'm doing good, joe.
How are you?
I am fantastic.
It's a great day to be alive andit's a great day to have a
tumor smaller than it wasyesterday.
What do you think about that?
So we've been walking down thisroad now for a few months and
(00:30):
it's been quite a journey.
We had some uphills and somedownhills and some obstacles,
and we're learning about scienceand changing paradigms, and
this has become quite a robustconversation, wouldn't you say?
Yeah, I think so.
So the last time we started inon other things.
(00:55):
This time I'd like to jump intothe update and then we'll get
into some other things.
When we last spoke, I wasgetting ready to do my second
session of chemotherapy andremember this is the
chemotherapy that we presentedto the medical oncologist not
(01:17):
the, not the regimen that theyhad in mind, which was going to
be a lot more toxic and includeradiation, and fortunately we
delivered it well enough thatthey accepted the notion and
inside of it I had my one-twopunch, and we've been working
(01:40):
really hard on this diet andfasting and oxygen therapy, and
the whole idea was that thisthing was going to make the
chemotherapy work extra good andgive me reduced amount of side
effects.
And it's done exactly that.
So Monday I went in and I and II was right on my point I did
(02:03):
my three-day fast.
I've been taking extramethionine A's I said nothing
for that cancer in preparationfor this chemotherapy.
I've been getting good sleep.
I think that's a big factor inall this.
My appetite's been strong inspite of the nausea side effects
(02:27):
from the chemotherapy.
I've really not needed only thesmallest amount of cannabis a
couple of times really is all Ineeded to knock that down.
So Monday I go in.
Well, friday I went in and gotmy blood work and I had talked
to the doctor on Friday.
(02:48):
That's when I had the Zoommeeting with the medical
oncologist and she was so blownaway.
She just I mean her reaction.
I wish I would have recorded itbecause it was just wide eyed
and just smiling.
She was so happy and you know,basically her response was
(03:09):
whatever you're doing, keepdoing it.
And that was the response wehad hoped for.
And I asked her about gettingthese circulating tumor blood
tests and she says no, that'sreally not in her wheelhouse to
order.
She just didn't see the.
You know it wasn't somethingshe was going to do, but she did
(03:31):
order the virus load.
This is a virus caused tumor.
So there is a marker that showsthe virus load in the
bloodstream.
That she believes is a bettermarker for this.
And she said that because therewas such a hassle with
switching over the regimen andthen the delay in the port that
(03:54):
somehow that order got lost inthe shuffle.
So she reordered it and Mondaywhen I went in to get the
chemotherapy they took my bloodfor that test.
So we're going to have abaseline marker.
The last time it was taken wasNovember, so we'll have a mark
(04:16):
from November till now and thenwe'll begin that in my regular
regimen.
The good news is thechemotherapy, the precursor
blood work, was on point.
They said everything was inline.
So I had been.
I was low on magnesium and I'veincreased that medical food,
(04:39):
the hominics, and that's pretty.
It's got a pretty good, notjust amino acids but it's got a
pretty good spectrum of mineralsand things in it too.
So I've upped that to twice aday and I think it's helped
balance keeping my proteinlevels good without bringing in
(05:01):
the cysteine and methionine.
So I'm really modulating this alot and paying attention to
everything that's going into mybody and when, and all of that.
I was able to maintain my weightthis time.
So when I got off the fast Iwas still in a healthy range and
I got to tell you what wasexpected was a worse effect.
(05:30):
Like right now I have a pump onand I have this port and it's
pumping this five fluorosil intomy body.
At every 30 seconds or so itputs another little pump in
(05:51):
there and I've got about well.
I get it taken out on saturday.
So the last time we did this Idid the same round.
I we did chemotherapy on monday.
On tuesday or wednesday, I feltreally good and I went out and
overworked myself.
Thursday I was beat.
We didn't have.
(06:11):
We ended up doing the podcast,I think the next day yeah time,
um, it's been much better.
I actually, the next morning Iwent on a hike.
I said I'm just going to seewhat I can do.
I, before I broke my fast, Isaid I'm going to just go walk
up the hill and see how far Ican get.
(06:32):
And I got up to the top of thehill I watched the sunrise,
walked back down.
I was a little wobbly, I wasreal careful walks, but I
carried my pump up there andeverything and I said you know
what, if I can do that, thatthat really puts me over over a
(06:53):
hump.
And, um, I've been reallypaying attention now.
So I'm, I'm working, goingoutside, getting some things
done.
Then I feel a little quiet, goin and take a nap and I'm
letting myself recover.
I didn't.
The nausea has been mild thistime.
I asked the doctor to cut backon the nausea medication that
(07:13):
they put in the IV.
They give it to you initiallyand I she, she cut it back to
one of the two medicines and Ididn't have the side effects of
the constipation and theheadache at all.
So I was able once again tomitigate a little adjustment and
I got almost no side effectfrom it.
(07:35):
The fluorosil causes mouthulcers and the last time it got
me pretty good and the problemwith that obviously is it makes
it hard to eat and you got toeat.
And the problem with thatobviously is it makes it hard to
eat and you got to eat, and sothis time I preemptively started
swishing my mouth with.
I get this buffered salinesolution and it really helps to
(08:00):
keep it off, and I use the um,the glycerin, ozonated glycerin.
I swish with that too, so sofar my mouth is good.
Um, I'm really I'm poweringthrough this.
This time I didn't, I didn'treally have a down day and I, as
you can see, the tumor hasgotten.
(08:22):
It's less than half of what itwas and this is really much less
.
It's about down to a third, Ithink, of what it was, maybe
even less than that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Been less than four weeks Right out, but I don't
(08:58):
care.
I think I look just fine and Icouldn't care less.
Anyways, I'd rather have a, nohair and a and no tumor than all
the hair and a tumor.
There you go.
So I think that what I've beenable to do with this now is my
voice.
People are noticing I, I, I'm,I'm strong.
(09:19):
But the people aren't evenlistening to my me talking on
the phone.
They're like, wow, you soundgreat.
And I says, well, you know, mystrength is returning.
My, my, I'm a long way frombeing done.
I tell everybody, you know what?
What people think is thatyou're looking better, so we're
good.
And you know as well as I dothis is not over.
(09:39):
It's actually never over for menow.
But even the big battle, Ican't let up one inch.
You know if I give this thingan inch, it'll come back
ferociously.
You can never let up, never,never, and that's the lesson
that people need to learn.
I had a lady come over.
You know now that people knowthat I'm getting ahead of this.
(10:01):
People are coming around askingquestions.
More cancer patients arereaching out to me now and I'm
sending them the link to thecall on Sunday and I believe
more and more people are goingto start to pop in and get some
understanding.
You know, I talked to this oneguy or this lady who came over a
(10:23):
couple days ago and she saidher son-in-law had I think it
was.
It was an internal cancer thatwas pretty bad, pancreatic I
think it was one of the realones you don't want and it was
aggressive.
It was stage four, metastasized, and the guy was doing what I
was doing he cut the sugar out,cut the carbs out, and he's
(10:46):
eating protein and he's down toa hundred pounds.
And I'm like you can't.
You got to get this guy to stop.
And he had the same problem Ihad.
I believed I was going to healmyself and he's like it's okay,
god's going to heal me and I'mlike you know what?
That's not how it works.
You got to do the work.
You know you might get healed,but you got to do the work and
(11:07):
you got to learn and you got toget smart.
And I just told her.
I said you know, I can tell youwhat I know, but he's got to
accept it and you can't force itdown his throat.
I gave him, I gave her thecontact.
I gave her the contact I gaveher.
You know the basics.
I told her about methionine, Itold her about you, I told her
about my experience, and youknow that's really what I could
(11:29):
do.
But the thing that's great is,people are reaching out and I
think that we're going to beable to take this case and use
it, because it's undeniable.
I sent you all those pictures.
What'd you think about all that?
Fantastic, you know.
So what's your thoughts about?
You know how we're writing up acase report now.
(11:51):
I love that.
So what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
We're going to publish.
We're going to publish yourresults.
We want to wait a little morebefore we would like to, you
know, see it shrink a bit more,but we already have a great
result.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Absolutely, and I'm continuing to take two pictures
a day, so I have another file.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Send them on to me, joe.
I will, I will, and so we'regoing to publish it.
The paper will be on PubMed.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I love it.
Everybody can read it.
I love it, you know.
That's where I wanted to go.
Next, you know this.
This is you.
You have an instrumental rolein this in two places.
One is obviously your wealth ofexperience, and now you have
this group of people that arethat are utilizing the tools
(12:39):
that you put out there andsharing their experiences, which
is helping us all.
But two, you're a professionalin the industry and, whether
everybody respects your work ornot, you are in a league where
you can publish these findingsand they'll be peer reviewed,
(13:00):
and I think that's powerful.
And not only that, but you'redoing it.
How many papers have youpublished on this topic?
A?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
few hundred.
There you go.
There you go First paper was1976 on this topic, wow.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And so you know that makes you one of the world's
foremost scholars on thissubject.
I know there are other peoplethat have done work before you
and there's other people doingthis work, but you're really you
know they've named it theHoffman effect for a reason, and
you know this is.
I'm actually really excited tobe part of this, in this element
(13:43):
, because, as horrible as You'rea pioneer, joe yes, absolutely,
you're a poster boy.
Kuhn's book, you know, onscientific revolution not every
(14:07):
pioneer mattered.
People did, have done amazingwork over the years and it never
got seen.
And this, I believe we have achance to piggyback on top of
all the other work you're doingand all these other case studies
and I'm not going to be quietabout it, I'll take this to
anybody who will hear me and Ithink we're going to be able to
(14:29):
make a change with it.
At least help you know, one ata time.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
One at a time is okay .
Well, and it doesn't have to beanother funeral Every time we
get a serious patient Right, apatient that's going to really
you know I'm not interested inthese dilettantes that come in,
they try it, they go away.
Whatever that's a waste ofmethioninase yes, that are going
(14:57):
to really really get into it,be diligent and also do tons of
reading.
That's the kind of patient Iwant.
Exactly Well that's what I bringto the table.
I wanted me to hire him to do anew website.
I said no.
I said our main website isPubMed.
(15:20):
Oh, a lot of people don'tunderstand PubMed.
I say that's the point.
I want the patients that canunderstand it.
Yes, I want the intelligentpatient that's going to really
understand what they have to doto get better.
I agree, and that's where Idirect everybody.
I don't waste my time onpatients who don't get it.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Well, not only that, even if they get it and they
think they get it, there's acommitment that most people
don't have Absolutely, andthat's what I tell people.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a really, really big thing.
Without the commitment, they'rewasting the methioninase,
wasting our time and throwingaway their life.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And it's hard.
I mean you know, but I tellpeople you know what else is
hard.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's difficult and requires a high level of
intelligence.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
It is All of it.
All of it, and you know I'mconfident that I'm doing the
very best that I can and as I'mlearning more, I'm adjusting as
needed and I'm willing to makeany adjustments that we got to
do.
My goal is to live a long andhealthy life.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, and we have to.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
we all have to learn, every day learn learn, learn
Exactly, Exactly, and that's, Ithink that's one of the problems
we get.
That's what I had.
One of my biggest problems wasI knew too much.
I knew already what I knew andI didn't want to hear anything
else at first.
And then, once I got hit withthat, you know you have this
(16:49):
disease.
It changed everything.
I says, well, I obviouslydidn't know what I thought I
knew and I got to get startlearning again and that's that's
how I stumbled on.
You was just reading, I wasjust learning and reading.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
You read the scientific papers, not some
bullshit website.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Exactly.
And you know, I think it'simportant that and I tell people
I go, if you're going to listento anybody, you got to listen
to somebody who's done it andyou got to listen to information
that's been reviewed, and thenyou have a place to start.
And just because somebody'sdone it doesn't mean it's going
to work for you.
You just have to say, well, howdid you get to where you're at?
(17:31):
And that's where this group isso important, where everybody
nobody has the same story, butwe all have a lot in common and
we're sharing the differencesalong with what's in common.
And I think that's reallypowerful, because the thing we
have in common is the knowledgeof this diet, the knowledge of
(17:51):
this enzyme, the knowledge ofwhat it does, and then all the
differences come out, all thedifferent.
You know, a lot of people haveprostate cancer, so they have
certain tests that they do, andthen some people have, you know,
fully metastasized aggressivecancers that they're going after
.
And you know, then we haveShahiro and myself, who have
(18:15):
this great story of a tumorgoing away, and we have, you
know, emil, dr Exime, and hisamazing story of, four and a
half years later, still here andfighting through it and you
know these are just tools thatyou're not going to find in
(18:37):
somebody's book and you're notgoing to find in some website
that's telling you to buy anextract or a fruit or something,
that's for sure.
So when you're going along andyou know you've written all
these papers, is there, is theresome kind of a I don't know
(18:59):
some kind of a marker orsomething that you go ha, I know
this is something that I needto write about.
Like how do you know, as you'regoing along, that you've got
the next thing to go after?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, when we write up the clinical reports which
we've written, 12 so far wechoose the patients that have
gotten a good result and wethink that should be shared with
the public, so we publish it.
In science we do experiments.
We try to learn more aboutmethionine addiction.
We try to learn more about howwe can more effectively target
(19:35):
it, kill the cancer cells betterwithout hurting the normal
cells, what we can combine withmethioninase be it ivermectin,
chloroquine, rapamycin, allkinds of interesting things.
So we get a good result that wethink adds to our knowledge or
adds to our ability to help thepatient we want to publish it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
So I'm curious about.
You know, I've always been a.
I call myself a tinkerer.
I formulate things and you knowI work with natural formulas
and I of course experiment onmyself before I think I'm going
to give anything to anybody else.
And you know I always startwith the safety first and work
with ingredients that I knowwhat they're going to do, and
(20:20):
then we test it and see howeffective they might be.
But that's very unscientificreally.
I mean, it's just tinkering, Idon't.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Well, a lot of science is tinkering too,
gathering information Exactlyand trying to make sense out of
it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And when you're working with things like herbals
, there's so many compounds tothem you can never really know
what's doing what.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
No, but we can identify herbs that we think
have helped patients, that's agood tool.
We don't need to know everycompound inside Exactly.
If we identify an herb that'shelping people with cancer,
that's good.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I agree.
That's why I do it, and I don'ttry to necessarily understand
every molecular mechanism.
I observe what's happening.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
We can't do it Exactly Right now.
The most important thing is tobe practical Right Patients that
need help yes and, uh, thestandard therapy.
For a lot of cancers you getthe standard result right
(21:32):
five-year survival 10.
We don't want that.
No, we've got to improve onthat.
Yes, so we start with thestandard therapy and we improve
it.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Right Agreed, and you know there's two elements to
this.
Like like their standardtherapy was going to be very
detrimental to my long-termhealth the way they proposed it,
and we came up with a standardtherapy that met their standard
of care, so they didn't rejectit.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's a standard of care, right?
Um, it's not an unstandardcombination.
Chemotherapy for squamous cellhead and neck cancer is standard
of care, right.
There are options that youroncologist wanted to add
radiation, right?
Uh, the radiologist probablywouldn't care if there was chemo
(22:23):
or not, he'd just do he, she doradiation.
The surgeon just wanted to dosurgery.
Yep, you can still haveradiation later if the chemo
reaches a point where it can'tshrink it anymore.
We'll consider radiationAbsolutely.
We'll even possibly considersurgery, depending on how
disfiguring it's going to be.
(22:43):
But I think there's a goodchance we won't have to go there
.
Why your tumor should stopshrinking.
I don't think so I think it'sgoing to keep shrinking.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
What she said was you know, initially there was a lot
of inflammation that went downalong with the tumor, so that
the first, the first shrinkingwas so dramatic because there
was a lot of inflammation.
She said what's likely tohappen as the tumor is getting
to more massive area that'sshrinking, that there's going to
(23:15):
be necrotic tissue that'll takemore time to dissipate.
And she said you might come toa point where it seems like it's
not really shrinking much, butit's just because your body
takes longer to process thatback into whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
What's your well, um, I mean, you've shrunk so much
already, I know, I mean what Ithink.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I'm just going to keep going.
I think it's just.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I looked at a picture that I took last year.
I'm getting ready to go on myannual trip to the Sierras and
last year about the same time, Ilooked at the picture and I'm
pretty confident that I my tumoris smaller than it was last
year at this time.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And that's incredible .
Speaker 2 (24:08):
There's no reason to think it's not going to keep
shrinking.
Not at all, I'm confident it'sgoing to.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Just like Chihiro.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
We don't know this for sure, but it keeps shrinking
.
So why are we?
Okay, keep going.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Exactly that's where I'm at and I'm being more
diligent with my regimen.
I'm not backing off one ounceand you know, everybody that
comes around says, oh, you'relooking so great.
I'm like, yeah, I'm staying'mstaying on point and we'll keep
on, keep on going.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So I am.
That's what we need to do, joe.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Exactly Well.
I'm excited to keep sharingthis with you and looking
forward to continuing.
I'll send you over the nextround of pictures.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Please, it's a handful.
My young student is so excitedabout writing up your case
report.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Excellent.
Well, I'm excited to be sharingit.
Hey Joe, I look forward tocontinuing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's going to be available to the whole world.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I love it.
Well, we're changing a paradigmhere and there will one day be
a world where this is part ofstandard of care and people will
understand it.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's an unstoppable force.
Yes, it just has its owntimeline.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Exactly.
Well, I'm here to push itforward.
Thank you for being here, asalways, robert, we'll see you.
Thank you, joe.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Thank you for being such a wonderful super patient
that does everything I wantevery other patient to do.
I just want to live a long,healthy life.
Yeah, and you will, and so manyother of the patients can do it
too, if they follow your lead.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Exactly.
All right, Robert, we'll seeyou next time.
Thank you for being here.
Okay, we'll see you on Sunday,Joe.
All right, take care.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Okay.
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