December 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Some moments feel like they were made just for you. That’s where we begin: with signs that don’t demand worship, but invite movement. Joe shares a mysterious “divine download” memory and Bishop Kevin reframes it as a signal that did its job. From there we trace a throughline of purpose: how to recognize direction, how to respond without getting stuck, and how to keep evolving even when the road dips into a valley after a peak.
We ground transformation in something you can hold: a butterfly garden. Watching a chrysalis split open makes struggle look different. Kevin urges us to step back from our lives like observers in a garden, celebrate what’s growing, and accept that cycles repeat at higher levels. The key is rhythm. Celebrate and pivot. To drive it home, we unpack a sharp parable: Blockbuster vs. Netflix. Stay in the party too long and you miss the future; iterate and you lead it. That mindset applies to health, faith, leadership, and relationships.
Music becomes the universal language in this story. Kevin walks us through his self-taught journey from drums to songwriting and the message behind his favorite track, Already Won. We explore how melody reaches places words can’t, including one guest’s recovery from a severe mental health battle. Then we widen the lens to ministry at scale: a multicultural, multi-generational, hybrid church that measures impact by changed lives, not busy schedules. Thousands of faith decisions, meals and toys distributed, a leadership network across the seven spheres of society, and a digital reach that proves a phone can be a sanctuary.
The most gripping moment is quiet: a staff member planning to end her life prays for a sign; minutes later, Kevin feels an odd urge to drive to the campus and unknowingly interrupts the plan. That theme repeats daily in smaller ways—short videos, timely messages, answered DMs—that give someone one more day. We close with a practice you can use right now: pray to see the signs and respond to them. If this conversation spoke life into you, subscribe, share it with someone who needs a sign today, and leave a review to help more people find it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we have back with us a
very special guest, Bishop KevinForeman.
We had a great uh conversationback in September, and we talked
a lot about transformation, uhincredible health journey, um
choices, and all sorts ofthings.
(00:45):
And you know, Kevin, I felt likeuh we just barely scratched the
surface.
So I'm really glad you were ableto make some time to join us
again.
How you been?
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Oh, listen, been amazing and glad to be with you
today.
I'll tell you what, it's uh it'salways great when uh
conversations go well and you'reable to have follow-up and what
have you.
And so, again, as I said before,thanks for having me.
Big salute to you for what youdo and and uh the conversations
you're having.
And I think conversations arecatalysts for change.
And so I appreciate you fordoing that.
And I agree, we just scratchedthe surface.
(01:16):
We had so much we could have gotinto.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
You know, it's it's really amazing this this
podcast.
You know, you talked the lasttime about your uh divine
download where you were you knowlooking for answers, and all of
a sudden a a Netflix movie comesup and you're watching it, and
it was like just perfectlytailored for you.
And then you tried to go andfind it again, it wasn't there.
And I I've met a number ofpeople who've had sort of
(01:41):
similar experiences where theywere searching and and and
asking God for, you know, giveme an answer, and all of a
sudden it's like a specialchannel comes on just for them.
And then they go back and try togo share it with somebody and
who knows where it is.
And it's amazing how God works,you know.
I've had personal experienceswhere God spoke to me, you know,
(02:01):
in in a language that's likeit's words, but it's not words,
you know, it's it's in your it'sin your heart, it's in your
spirit, and you know, it's sopowerful when you when you reach
out and connect to the divinesource, which is God, of course,
and and and you make thatconnection, like you can't let
(02:24):
go of that.
You can't ever go back to Idon't understand, I don't, I
don't know, I don't feel, Idon't trust, I don't anything.
Like you're stuck in a placewhere you're like, Yeah, I'm
connected and and I got apurpose and I better step up and
do my job.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's it's there's aphrase that says he's the God of
miracles, signs, and wonders.
And so I think the signs are arethe most important thing that
you know, a sign is to point youin a direction.
It's not the answer, it's topoint you to an answer.
It's not the destination, it'sto point you to a destination.
It's not where you're going,it's to get you where you're
going.
And so when you view it thatway, it's sort of like how you
(03:02):
mentioned uh, you know, I couldwent back, couldn't find it.
And others will go back andthey're trying to share it and
they can't share it, or they'retrying to communicate to someone
what happened and they can'tquite articulate it well.
It's kind of like driving.
Once I've gone past that sign,um, there's no need for me to go
back past that sign.
I've gone past that sign.
And so I think for many times inlife, the reason you can't
(03:24):
duplicate it is because the signdid what it was supposed to do.
It got you past it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
I totally agree.
I think sometimes we get stuckin a in a piece of a process and
we keep looping back, trying tobecause you know, it was
powerful or it was beautiful orit was something special about
it.
And so we want to go back andrelive it, recreate it, you
know, watch that rerun, feel itagain.
But that's not how journeys are,you know, like you're saying,
(03:48):
you you you keep going, and youknow, we're born, we live, we
die, and and that's a beautifuljourney.
And after we die, we have uh aneternity of of of of ongoing
journey.
And uh I I think that gettingstuck is where so many other
(04:09):
problems happen.
And you know, last time wetalked about this amazing uh uh
weight loss transformation thatyou had, and and we both shared
some of that, but yours was alot more uh uh pronounced than
mine was.
And um, you know, you talkedabout transformation and uh you
(04:29):
used the butterfly um yeah,yeah, evolution.
And what's interesting, sincethat time, you know, my wife and
I have a uh nonprofit calledGardens of Hope, and we use our
botanical garden to help peoplefind healing and and you know,
mental, physical, spiritualhealing.
And um just very recently we meta woman who's teaching us how to
(04:53):
grow a butterfly garden.
And most literally, I have I'mlooking across the way at a
table of a butterfly that justcame out of a chrysalis, and
we've been watching it grow inthis little thing, and you know,
you get a caterpillar and yougive it what it needs to eat,
and next thing you know, it'shanging up in the top, and it
(05:14):
makes this little cocoon, andthen sometime later, you know,
weeks or months, even all of asudden, this amazing creature
comes out of this thing, and somuch like us, you know, we go
through these struggles, we gothrough these journeys, and um
you know, you get hit with thisdifficulty.
(05:35):
And if you do it right, youknow, you go to God and say,
Hey, I need your help.
And somehow, some way you youyou get this direction or this
inspiration, and you you do thisthing, whatever it is,
everybody's got their thing.
And if you do it right, youknow, you come out as this
transformed individual, what doyou have for all that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
Yeah, you know, but I I think one for you to be able
to see it, uh I think is awesomebecause talking about it is one
thing, seeing it in nature isanother thing, seeing it up
close and personal, I thinkgives it a totally different uh
view, totally differentexperience, totally different
understanding, because you getto see uh in real time this this
(06:19):
process isn't just a theory,it's that process.
And you get to see um thatjourney.
And I think I think sometimesthe challenge as humans that we
can have is because we're in thejourney, we don't always see our
journey.
So sometimes one of the bestthings to do is to step back,
just like you're able to watchthis, step back, watch your own
journey, watch your own life,celebrate your progress,
(06:41):
celebrate where you've come to,but then also celebrate the fact
that there's still more ahead ofyou.
Like this isn't the end.
If you got a pulse, there'sstill a plan, there's more to
do, there's more life ahead ofyou.
And what I also love about itis, you know, as humans, we're
in a constant, we're in aconstant evolution where you're
gonna go back through that samecycle in a different area of
(07:03):
life.
You may go back through thatsame cycle in the same area of
life, just bigger.
Um, and I think recognizing thatit helps take away some of the
feelings of frustration or angeror depression or anxiety or
worry, um, some of thosenegative emotions that don't
really service.
You're able to overcome thosenegative emotions when you
(07:24):
recognize this is normal, thisis part of my journey.
I've done this before, I'm doingthis again, but I'm doing it at
a higher level, at a biggerlevel, whatever that might be.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
I love it.
I love it.
You know, it's um it'sincredible how wherever you are,
there's this amazing experiencethat you can have, you can learn
so much, and then you don't evensee what's in front of you.
You don't see how high you cango or how far you can go.
And uh each time you make astep, like you last time you
(07:57):
talked about sometimes you getup on a peak and you have a
celebration, but you don'tnecessarily remember or realize
that there's gonna be a valleyin front of you if you keep
walking.
Yep.
And that's uh it's an important,it's an important lesson because
you know it's it's good tocelebrate, it's good to feel
good about accomplishing and andand looking back on, hey, wow,
(08:20):
look where we come.
I imagine if you take a momentand look back on your on your
life and and all theaccomplishments that you've had,
man, you could have a good longparty about it all, but it
doesn't seem to me you spend awhole lot of time there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
No, you're right about it.
I you know what?
Uh no, I will be honest.
One of the areas that um, and Idon't live with regret, but I do
live with a healthy sense of umwhat would you do different?
And I think that's a veryimportant distinction because I
think regret leads to negativeplaces and spaces mentally.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
(08:57):
You did the best you could basedon the information you had.
One of the things I would dodifferent is exactly what you
just said.
It's in my celebration,celebrating the fact a friend of
mine uh was just visiting withme, and uh he said, you know,
you you you don't often talkabout all of what you've done,
what you have, what you'vebuilt, what you've accomplished.
You don't talk about that.
(09:18):
I said, you know, that's a goodpoint.
I said, that's because I've justmoved on to get it to do it
more.
I just moved on to accomplishingmore.
I've just moved on to impactingmore lives or whatever it might
be.
Um and so I can admit, one ofthe areas that I do need to do,
uh uh uh let me say it this way,that I'm constantly learning to
do a better job of is in thosecelebrations.
Because I think I've done apretty good job of learning how
(09:40):
to pivot and move on to thenext, the next thing, the next,
the next thing to conquer.
And so um, to your point, right?
I don't stay there too long.
I I'm typically, that was great.
Okay, now we gotta go do this.
And what I what I should do andwhat I am learning to do better
is okay, great.
Let's sit in this for a half aday.
Let's enjoy this.
Now let's move on.
(10:01):
Because ultimately, life is acollection of experiences.
Um, that's it.
It's a collection of memories.
Um, the reality is none of it wecan take with us when we exit
this earth in terms of materialthings.
Um, you can't take people withyou when you exit the earth.
What you can take is the impactthat you left while you were in
the earth.
And so I think at the end of theday, um, you know, for me, I'm
(10:25):
learning to constantly celebratemore.
Um, but I think I have, I won'tsay perfected because I'm always
a student, I'm always strivingto get better.
But I but I have, I have, Ihave, uh, I think I've pretty
well figured out how to pivotand move on to the next thing.
And I think sometimes it's theinverse for most people.
They sit in a celebration foryears, but they haven't pivoted
(10:46):
and moved on to the next thing.
I think a great example of thatyou could look at if we were to
use a business example, uh,would be Blockbuster.
You remember Blockbuster?
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Yeah, Blockbuster.
SPEAKER_00 (10:57):
Yeah, I definitely remember.
Yeah, you remember this.
SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
So, Blockbuster, you know, the story goes, of course,
Netflix, the juggernaut that itis today.
The story goes that at one pointBlockbuster had an opportunity
to buy Netflix, and I think itwas like 40 million bucks.
Um, and Blockbuster had been thejuggernaut, and they were
sitting on the success, and theywere Blockbuster.
You know, what is anybody elseever going to do to us?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
And today, there's one left, I believe it's in
Alaska.
There's one Blockbuster left,and Netflix is, you know, this
juggernaut, this multi-billiondollar multinational operation.
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
Getting ready to take over some major studios.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Exactly.
You know, like an$80 million, orexcuse me, billion dollar, be it
and for Warner Discovery.
But the point is this is that umBlockbuster spent too much time
celebrating.
So they couldn't pivot.
And I think that's a lesson foreverybody.
Who do you want to be,Blockbuster or Netflix?
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
100%.
I agree.
I'd like to take a second, andyou know, we didn't talk about a
lot of your accomplishments oror even if you don't want to
call it that, is is the placesthat you've explored and the
ways that you touch people, andone of them is music.
Yeah, and we don't think we evenmentioned music on the last
conversation, but it's been abig old part of your journey,
(12:20):
your experience, and what you'veshared with people.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
I think music is one of the waysthat um God really touches us,
you know.
It doesn't need wordsnecessarily, just the sound and
the you know, those notes arejust so powerful.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
Yeah, you know, so I I got you know, so from from the
last episode we did, the the thejoke is I came out of my mom's
room with a Bible and abriefcase.
So I had this affinity towardsbusiness and spirituality.
Um and those two things alwaysworked in tandem for me.
And it's a biblical principle.
Some people see those asseparate, they're not.
Biblically speaking, there's ascripture, Revelation 5:10, that
says God makes us kings andpriests, spiritual and
(13:01):
successful in one person.
Um, and we see this concept fromthis guy named Meltezede.
But the point is this um is thatthat's just I always had this
affinity.
But with that, I also had thislove for music.
And interestingly enough, Itried several different
instruments and didn't like themin uh at all.
I trombone, hated it.
(13:21):
My stepfather played it, that'swhy I tried it, hated it.
Tried trumpet, hated it.
Tried the alto sax, loved itbecause at that time I think
Clinton was president and heplayed sax.
And so, you know, uh, or Iremember Clinton playing sax on
like the Jay Leno show orsomething like that.
Yeah, yeah.
And so uh because I was a kidwhen he was president, but
(13:42):
nonetheless, uh, you know, Iremembered that.
And so as a result of that, Iended up um, you know, thinking
that I liked that.
I was playing alto sax.
I'm like, yeah, you know what?
I don't really, I don't reallylike this.
And so um I eventually um got adrum set because a friend of
mine, he and I were verycompetitive, and he was an
actual musician, he could play,and he got a drum set.
(14:04):
So I went home and said, I wanta drum set.
They said, Well, you can't evenplay drums.
I said, but I'm gonna learn.
I said, just like all the otherinstruments.
I said, no, but this isdifferent.
And it was different.
I got that drum set, I learnedhow to play, taught myself how
to play.
And um, from there, I taughtmyself how to play keys and uh
what have you.
And I was eventually inductedinto the Colorado Gospel Music
(14:24):
Hall of Fame.
And uh and so big leap there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
You go from taught myself a few things, and whoop,
there I go, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
Yeah, to the Hall of Fame, which I didn't even know
we had one until I had thepleasure of being inducted into
it.
And uh for music, and I wroteall of our songs um that we've
released um that folks can getat bishopforman.com.
Amazing music, too.
It's really inspirational.
My favorite of all the songsI've written is this song called
Already One, W-O-N.
(14:53):
And it talks about how everybattle we face, it's ultimately
already won.
We're we're walking out thejourney, but the battle has
already been won.
I wrote that song, um, and allof our music has done amazingly
well, and uh it's it's beenreceived so well.
And uh, you know, I it it's uhit's it was a great, it was a
(15:14):
great accomplishment.
And it's one of those thingswhere I and I'll be honest, I
haven't touched uh songwritingin the last couple of years as
we've been in this transitionalperiod, uh moving our
headquarters from Denver toAtlanta.
But it is one of those thingsthat it's on my, I always have a
list, uh I say a list of thingsthat are pending, and it's on my
list because I've I've gottensome things because what I'll
(15:35):
literally do during a service,I'll just write a song on the
stage.
So actually, let me correct thatstatement.
While I have not sat in a studioand wrote songs, every Sunday
I'm writing a song.
Like literally, I'll justrandomly make something up on
the stage, mic in hand, whateverthe flow is with the musicians,
we'll literally write writesongs right there on the spot.
(15:57):
So let me let me correct thatbecause that's not accurate.
Um, but again, that see, thatkind of shows you my mindset.
I'm so fast moving on to thenext thing.
I didn't even recognize youknow, didn't even recognize that
that's how I was doing that.
But nonetheless, uh love it.
I think music is universal.
It speaks to everybody, speaksto anybody, regardless of your
race, regardless of yourbackground, regardless of even
your musical preferences.
(16:18):
There are some songs that justthe lyrics of it, just the flow
of it, the chords that are usedcan invoke a level of
connectivity, a level ofemotion, a level of depth that
um does something that oftenmaybe conversation couldn't do.
Um, maybe even a presentationcouldn't do, but music has the
ability to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Yeah, music can touch you in a way that that I
don't know that anything elsecan.
I had a guest that had a majormental disorder, and she was
talking about how music was thetool that she was able to start
to find her way out of it.
And uh, you know, it's reallypowerful.
You know, I'd like to hear alittle bit about your ministry
as well.
Obviously, that's a big part ofof who you are and what you do,
(17:01):
probably the biggest part, Iwould imagine.
Yeah, talking about um, youknow, moving and shaking and and
changing.
And uh why don't you tell us alittle bit about the where you
come from and and where youwhere you are and where you're
going with it?
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
Got it.
Yeah, so you know, I um I um youyou're right.
Number one, the ministry is ahuge part, it it dominates my
time.
Um, but I love it.
I mean, the impact that we'vehad in the lives of people um is
is fantastic.
We measure it.
Uh, we have something we callharvest at a glance, and uh
we're actually getting ready tochange the name at the top of
the year to History MakersChurch, which just reflects the
(17:40):
next level, the next phase ofwhat we're doing.
But um, but in that, um, youknow, the ministry, it's
multicultural,multi-generational.
We reach a lot of what we callunchurched or dechurched people.
So um for those unfamiliar withthose terms, unchurch just means
somebody never grew up inchurch.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
D-church just means somebody that grew up in church,
but for whatever reason,disconnected, fell away.
So we reach a lot of people inthose two categories.
And so that hence the term thepeople's bishop, because uh I I
just I connect with people rightwhere they're at, regardless of
where they're at, to get themcloser, to go further, faster in
their relationship with God.
(18:17):
And so um that's really thepremise of what we do.
So out of the ministry, uh, youknow, we've so many amazing
things that have happened.
We just crossed the 12,500 markof people who have made
decisions of faith uh and becomeChristians.
Uh, this year alone, we've done,we're knocking at the door of
1,800 just this year.
Um, and uh we've given almost amillion dollars in emissions
(18:39):
domestic and abroad.
Almost 28,000 toys we've givenaway after this Christmas
season, it'll exceed the 28,000mark.
We've adopted thousands offamilies.
Uh, we've given away, you know,over uh a quarter of a million
pounds of food.
At one point we ran Denver's orAurora, the suburb of Denver,
the largest food bank.
Uh, we ran that largestlocation.
(19:01):
So we're all about changinglives.
We have the Bible college wherepeople can earn associates
through doctoral level degrees.
We have the leadership networkthat pours into leaders, not
just church leaders, butbusiness leaders, um, any seven
of the seven spirits of society,art and entertainment, business,
education, government, media,um, church, and uh family.
So, you know, it keeps it keepsme, I won't say busy, because to
(19:23):
me, busy is like being on atreadmill.
I gotta tell you something.
Yesterday, it was the first dayI typically don't like doing
in-gym cardio.
I don't like it at all.
So the last time I've donein-gym cardio, you know, like an
elliptical or treadmill, I don'tlike it because mentally I don't
like the concept of putting outthe energy, but I didn't go
anywhere.
I don't like the I don't likethe construct in my mind.
But in Atlanta, it's been socold that it was in the low 40s
(19:48):
yesterday.
And so I did my first in-gymcardio yesterday.
And uh, and so I was reminded, Iwas like, this isn't bad, but I
was reminded of why I don't likeit.
I say, because this is, youknow, it associates to me, it
connects to busy, where you'rein one place, you're doing, um,
you're putting out energy, butyou're not going anywhere.
So I don't like to say busy, uh,um, but it keeps me very
(20:10):
productive.
Every day is a journey.
Every day it's amazing, youknow, you're you're you're
connecting with people allacross America, around the
world, because we're a hyperchurch, not just in buildings,
but online.
And the majority of peopleconnected to us have actually
never stepped foot in abuilding.
Um, our database is well over16,000 people who are connected,
and the majority of them havenever stepped in a building.
SPEAKER_00 (20:32):
You know, and I I think that's important.
You know, people connect theidea of church to some sort of a
structure, and that wasn't whatJesus was talking about at all.
He was talking about his family,his body, uh the body, and
that's it, you know.
So whether you're in a buildingor in a garden or talking online
(20:55):
or or communicating however youare, that's that's the power of
the church right there.
SPEAKER_02 (21:01):
Right, right, absolutely.
Yeah.
And and to see that, I gotta behonest, that was one of those
evolutions for me because I wasI was very, I was a very big
believer, and and in many ways,still am to some extent, in the
power of gathering physically.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
And so almost to the point to where when we started,
we we got into technology prettyearly with streaming and apps
and all that.
And so for us, it became a thingwhere we were like, okay, we got
to do this and we're gonna dothis pretty early.
We're gonna do this pretty,pretty, you know, pretty, you
know, uh avant-garde at the timewhen streaming used to cost, you
know, 1,500 bucks a month, 2,000bucks a month.
Of course, now most of this isit's it's very cheap.
(21:39):
Um, depending on how you do it,you can even do it free.
Uh but um that was then.
Um, so we were doing that, uh,but I still believed um in the
power of people being in thebuilding.
And then the pandemic hits.
And because of our nature, wejust kept flowing.
In fact, we grew at an amazingrate during that time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
But um actually people were kind of stuck in a
place and they were looking foruh a connection, they were
looking for for a way to findsome fulfillment in a place
where in a time when therewasn't a lot of that to be had.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Oh, exactly.
And you know, you you sawinstantly the power of a phone,
the power of an internetconnection, the power of a
video.
You saw that instantly.
And I think what that really didum was just show me another way.
So then even when we opened thedoors back up uh during the
pandemic, we noticed some, youknow, uh easing.
(22:39):
Um, Denver was, of course, wewere in Denver primarily at the
time.
And Denver, um, we noticed thatit was our number one streaming
audience.
And so, in seeing this, we wereable to say, okay, we sit we're
seeing this amazing streamingaudience.
We're seeing um these amazingnumbers of people's lives being
impacted.
And for us, um, it really began,you know, this evolutionary
(23:02):
process of saying, you know,we're a hybrid church, um, which
many in practice are.
But I looked at it almost liketwo different business models.
Walmart is a brook and mortarwith a website.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Amazon is an online business with regional
distribution.
And uh, you know, the second,and whether people like Walmart
or Amazon, it's not the point,it's just the model that I'm
going to.
Uh, the second is the power.
I mean, listen, people are gonnabe listening to this podcast
across America, around theworld, who have never, they've
never met you in person, nevermet me in person, but their
(23:35):
lives are being impacted.
And so I think there's a lot,um, there's so much to learn and
to gain from that.
Um, and and seeing that.
Because I used to have a verytraditionalist view that you
(24:38):
gotta get in the building, yougotta get in the building, and
and and there is value to that.
But at the same time, there isthe experience that people are
able to have right there in theliving rooms, right there
online, right there watching,um, that uh we see it because
it's just as powerful as peoplewho step foot in the building.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
I agree.
And I'd like to touch on thisbecause you know, as as you
broadcast and you're reachingthis broad audience of many
people that you'll never meet,or or maybe you will, maybe you
won't, but you're gonna you'regonna touch people right that
you that you're not aware of.
Right.
Absolutely.
(25:16):
And it seems to me that you knowyou've gotten that as a an
important element of yourministry because you know that's
that's what Jesus did.
He walked from place to placeand talked to everybody that
came around, and and you know,his whole point was to to touch
all the people he could while hewas here.
And and you're walking in asimilar way, except for you got
(25:39):
technology now in a way thatwasn't around a couple thousand
years ago.
And yet I get the sense, basedon what I've read about you and
what I've heard, is that youhave a very personal and
intimate relationship withanybody who comes near you, and
and you're you're not hard toreach, and you're not um
(26:00):
somebody needs to tug your ear alittle bit.
It seems that seems that youalways have that to offer.
I suspect that there's been someamazing interactions and um
interventions and things thatyou've experienced.
I like it if you could share atleast one of those with our
(26:20):
audience about somebody who youjust you didn't see it coming
and uh somehow, you know, therewas a giant impact.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Yeah, you know that's an amazing question.
Um, so many, because um, and andI don't say this just to click
out a cliche or just you know,certainly not out of
self-organized, but literallyevery day we read the
testimonies, we read the praisereports of lives that are
impacted.
I'll tell you one story thatoften uh it's a similar theme
(26:51):
that happens.
Uh, because everybody goesthrough trauma, drama uh in life
in different ways.
People handle it in differentways.
And uh to your point, I striveto be the kind of person,
despite how full my schedule is,despite how full life is, um, to
make sure that, you know, to me,you can never be too busy for
(27:12):
people.
Because if you're too busy forpeople, like this is the
business of people.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:16):
And so, you know, why have a platform if you're
not gonna connect with people?
Sometimes people will sendmessages, and it takes me a
little bit to get back to it.
You know, on Instagram alone, Iget two, three hundred messages,
often close to four or fivehundred messages a day.
So it takes me a while to getback.
And people, I see people'sresponses.
I'm shocked you responded.
I'm shocked you even got themessage.
And uh, I listened to that and Ithink, you know, you know, well,
(27:39):
there that's the difference.
You're dealing with the people'sbishop.
You know, I want to connect.
But the thing that often comesto mind are thoughts when people
are in deep places of despair.
And sometimes that despair canturn into thoughts of self-harm,
not just ideations, but actions.
And uh, one of the stories thatactually stands out to me the
most, um, this is years ago,there was one of our staffers,
(28:03):
and she um was um, you know, shewas uh going through some things
internally in her mind and whathave you.
And those things really began touh weigh down on her.
And uh, and so one day, um I,you know, I they've been gone
from the campus for a while, andI got this urge to just go to
(28:26):
the campus.
It was the weirdest thingbecause I generally, you know,
just wouldn't go.
And if I would go, I wouldtypically have a staff or
someone with me.
And so I went and I happened tosee your car back there.
And um, yeah, I was like, whatare you doing here?
And you know, and so there's aconversation, and oh, I'm good,
sir.
(28:47):
Everything, you know, was fine,everything's good, everything's
great.
And um, you know, I didn't thinkmuch of it.
I just thought it was a weirdthing.
Um, and this just goes to showyou the power of of what we
started this conversation withof signs, and so um I didn't
think anything else of it.
I just thought, okay, well,maybe there's a reason.
I said there's a reason I camehere.
(29:07):
I don't know what that reasonis, but there's a reason I'm
here because I got from my home,drove all the way over here.
Bye-bye.
And I have no clue why I'm here.
I have no reason to be in thisbuilding.
It wasn't until a couple ofyears later, when I was
listening to a testimony videoof hers, that we found out that
that evening she had justwritten her goodbye letter to
(29:31):
her family and her daughter, andthat night she was planning to
take her life.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_02 (29:37):
She was planning to close to the campus, there was
the you know, like the lightrail um type of a stape stop.
She was planning, according toher, she was planning to jump in
front of that, and that wasgonna be the end of her life.
And she prayed and said, God, Idon't, you know, essentially she
didn't think her life was worthliving anymore.
(30:00):
And uh, and that unless she gota sign that that was gonna be
her last night on the earth.
I have no clue of that.
And after she prays that, whopulls up?
I pull up.
Um and I didn't know that.
And I think that's the powerfulthing.
Now, that theme, I see thathappen all the time.
(30:21):
I have people who say, I wasjust going through the day and I
was watching your video.
I get I get approached by peopleall the time, everywhere.
I was in the gym one day.
Guy walks over to me, and um,you know, he's he walks over, he
turns his phone towards me, andhe shows me a video of me.
And they're like, Yeah, that'sme.
And uh, and he says, uh he says,Oh my God, he says, Listen, I
(30:43):
just moved here from, I believeit was Illinois.
I just moved here to here,meaning Atlanta from Illinois.
He says, uh, he maybe was in his60s, 70s, something like that.
He said, uh, you have no cluehow every day I literally can't
wait to see the video yourelease, to see what you have
for me.
He then shows me his phone andbegins showing me all the videos
(31:05):
I've already said.
And he said, I was going througha rough, I believe it was a uh
uh situation with his career,with his job.
And similar story.
He said, You know, I was justover and I was done.
I just thought life was over.
He said, but I started listeningto your videos, I started
connecting with you, followingyou.
Again, a gentleman I had neverever seen before and uh met
(31:27):
before.
That happens all the time.
One lady, again, at the gym.
A lot of this happens at the gymbecause I spend the most time in
one place outside of, you know,outside of you know,
environment, you know,environments, the office or
whatever.
But um uh and a lady almostfalls off the treadmill and
says, You're the TikTok guy.
(31:47):
I I said that.
She says, Oh my god, she says,You you literally have no clue
how what you do.
Uh she said, I I wait on pinsand needles, just waiting to see
what you're gonna release.
It's the theme of lives whereyou don't know who needed the
small thing you said that feltlike, okay, I can keep living, I
(32:08):
can keep going.
Those stories literally happenevery day.
And I'm not desensitized tothem, but every single day,
there's at least five to ten ofthose stories every single day.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
I love that.
Well, you're clearly living thelife that you're intended to,
and I'm I'm grateful for that.
Um, is there a single thoughtthat you'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
I know, like always, I suspect,and I hope to have you back
again.
We've got Oh, I'd love to.
You connected, you definitelyfull show and you know,
(32:40):
scratched a little bit more, butuh so much more to talk about.
Um, but is there a thought thatyou'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
You know, I I think what I would say is this.
Um, you know, a lot of what wetalked about today, um, we
started the conversation withsigns.
And I think for every personlistening, um God's given you
signs and they're all aroundyou.
Um and I think one of the bestthings to pray is a simple
prayer.
God, let me recognize, let mesee the signs.
(33:10):
The signs are pointing me in theright direction, they're
pointing me to the right people,right places, right things,
right ideas.
Let me recognize the signs.
Let me not only recognize thesigns, but then let me respond
to the signs.
Let me take the action the signis saying to take.
And I think my life is full ofthat, where I've I've seen the
(33:30):
signs and I've responded.
And I'll be honest, I've notalways responded quickly, I've
not always responded accurately,but what I strive to do is to
respond.
And I say to everybody, lookaround you, respond, because
heaven is speaking.
We just have to respond.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
I love that.
That's beautiful.
And uh, Kevin, it's been anabsolute treat to share some
more time with you.
I hope to do it again soon.
Um, yeah, and of course, howdoes anybody get a hold of you?
I know there's people waiting ontheir and on their fingers,
pins, and needles like, how theheck do I get a hold of this
guy?
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
Yeah, just bishopforeman.com.
That's the website that'll getyou connected.
And then on all social platformsat BishopForeman.
And if you're listening to this,I'd love to know that something
spoke life into you.
So please shoot me a message.
You'll get a response.
It might not be for a coupledays, but you will get a
response from me.
Let me know that it uhencouraged you, spoke life to
you, built you up in some way,edified you.
(34:23):
But bishopforeman.com or onsocial at Bishop Foreman for all
the uh social platforms.
If you go to TikTok, make sureyou look for the blue check on
all my platforms.
Look for the blue check.
There's like a hundred fakeprofiles of me on TikTok.
So I always like to say that topeople because we get messages
from people saying, Is thisother than you?
And I almost sometimes it'scomical.
I'm like, well, if you had toask me if that's me, I think
(34:45):
that tells you that it's not me.
But you know, I just like peopleto know that because sometimes
people just search it andsometimes I may not be the one
that comes up for first things.
unknown (34:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Excellent.
Well, Kevin, thank you so much.
Um, and uh just again, gratefulthat you're able to take some
time with us today.
And it's my pleasure.
For all the listeners, this hasbeen another episode of the
Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumba.
I want to thank all of you whoare making this show possible,
and we will see you next time.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andtoday we have back with us a
very special guest, Bishop KevinForeman.
We had a great uh conversationback in September, and we talked
a lot about transformation, uhincredible health journey, um
choices, and all sorts ofthings.
(00:45):
And you know, Kevin, I felt likeuh we just barely scratched the
surface.
So I'm really glad you were ableto make some time to join us
again.
How you been?
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Oh, listen, been amazing and glad to be with you
today.
I'll tell you what, it's uh it'salways great when uh
conversations go well and you'reable to have follow-up and what
have you.
And so, again, as I said before,thanks for having me.
Big salute to you for what youdo and and uh the conversations
you're having.
And I think conversations arecatalysts for change.
And so I appreciate you fordoing that.
And I agree, we just scratchedthe surface.
(01:16):
We had so much we could have gotinto.
SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
You know, it's it's really amazing this this
podcast.
You know, you talked the lasttime about your uh divine
download where you were you knowlooking for answers, and all of
a sudden a a Netflix movie comesup and you're watching it, and
it was like just perfectlytailored for you.
And then you tried to go andfind it again, it wasn't there.
And I I've met a number ofpeople who've had sort of
(01:41):
similar experiences where theywere searching and and and
asking God for, you know, giveme an answer, and all of a
sudden it's like a specialchannel comes on just for them.
And then they go back and try togo share it with somebody and
who knows where it is.
And it's amazing how God works,you know.
I've had personal experienceswhere God spoke to me, you know,
(02:01):
in in a language that's likeit's words, but it's not words,
you know, it's it's in your it'sin your heart, it's in your
spirit, and you know, it's sopowerful when you when you reach
out and connect to the divinesource, which is God, of course,
and and and you make thatconnection, like you can't let
(02:24):
go of that.
You can't ever go back to Idon't understand, I don't, I
don't know, I don't feel, Idon't trust, I don't anything.
Like you're stuck in a placewhere you're like, Yeah, I'm
connected and and I got apurpose and I better step up and
do my job.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's it's there's aphrase that says he's the God of
miracles, signs, and wonders.
And so I think the signs are arethe most important thing that
you know, a sign is to point youin a direction.
It's not the answer, it's topoint you to an answer.
It's not the destination, it'sto point you to a destination.
It's not where you're going,it's to get you where you're
going.
And so when you view it thatway, it's sort of like how you
(03:02):
mentioned uh, you know, I couldwent back, couldn't find it.
And others will go back andthey're trying to share it and
they can't share it, or they'retrying to communicate to someone
what happened and they can'tquite articulate it well.
It's kind of like driving.
Once I've gone past that sign,um, there's no need for me to go
back past that sign.
I've gone past that sign.
And so I think for many times inlife, the reason you can't
(03:24):
duplicate it is because the signdid what it was supposed to do.
It got you past it.
SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
I totally agree.
I think sometimes we get stuckin a in a piece of a process and
we keep looping back, trying tobecause you know, it was
powerful or it was beautiful orit was something special about
it.
And so we want to go back andrelive it, recreate it, you
know, watch that rerun, feel itagain.
But that's not how journeys are,you know, like you're saying,
(03:48):
you you you keep going, and youknow, we're born, we live, we
die, and and that's a beautifuljourney.
And after we die, we have uh aneternity of of of of ongoing
journey.
And uh I I think that gettingstuck is where so many other
(04:09):
problems happen.
And you know, last time wetalked about this amazing uh uh
weight loss transformation thatyou had, and and we both shared
some of that, but yours was alot more uh uh pronounced than
mine was.
And um, you know, you talkedabout transformation and uh you
(04:29):
used the butterfly um yeah,yeah, evolution.
And what's interesting, sincethat time, you know, my wife and
I have a uh nonprofit calledGardens of Hope, and we use our
botanical garden to help peoplefind healing and and you know,
mental, physical, spiritualhealing.
And um just very recently we meta woman who's teaching us how to
(04:53):
grow a butterfly garden.
And most literally, I have I'mlooking across the way at a
table of a butterfly that justcame out of a chrysalis, and
we've been watching it grow inthis little thing, and you know,
you get a caterpillar and yougive it what it needs to eat,
and next thing you know, it'shanging up in the top, and it
(05:14):
makes this little cocoon, andthen sometime later, you know,
weeks or months, even all of asudden, this amazing creature
comes out of this thing, and somuch like us, you know, we go
through these struggles, we gothrough these journeys, and um
you know, you get hit with thisdifficulty.
(05:35):
And if you do it right, youknow, you go to God and say,
Hey, I need your help.
And somehow, some way you youyou get this direction or this
inspiration, and you you do thisthing, whatever it is,
everybody's got their thing.
And if you do it right, youknow, you come out as this
transformed individual, what doyou have for all that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
Yeah, you know, but I I think one for you to be able
to see it, uh I think is awesomebecause talking about it is one
thing, seeing it in nature isanother thing, seeing it up
close and personal, I thinkgives it a totally different uh
view, totally differentexperience, totally different
understanding, because you getto see uh in real time this this
(06:19):
process isn't just a theory,it's that process.
And you get to see um thatjourney.
And I think I think sometimesthe challenge as humans that we
can have is because we're in thejourney, we don't always see our
journey.
So sometimes one of the bestthings to do is to step back,
just like you're able to watchthis, step back, watch your own
journey, watch your own life,celebrate your progress,
(06:41):
celebrate where you've come to,but then also celebrate the fact
that there's still more ahead ofyou.
Like this isn't the end.
If you got a pulse, there'sstill a plan, there's more to
do, there's more life ahead ofyou.
And what I also love about itis, you know, as humans, we're
in a constant, we're in aconstant evolution where you're
gonna go back through that samecycle in a different area of
(07:03):
life.
You may go back through thatsame cycle in the same area of
life, just bigger.
Um, and I think recognizing thatit helps take away some of the
feelings of frustration or angeror depression or anxiety or
worry, um, some of thosenegative emotions that don't
really service.
You're able to overcome thosenegative emotions when you
(07:24):
recognize this is normal, thisis part of my journey.
I've done this before, I'm doingthis again, but I'm doing it at
a higher level, at a biggerlevel, whatever that might be.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
I love it.
I love it.
You know, it's um it'sincredible how wherever you are,
there's this amazing experiencethat you can have, you can learn
so much, and then you don't evensee what's in front of you.
You don't see how high you cango or how far you can go.
And uh each time you make astep, like you last time you
(07:57):
talked about sometimes you getup on a peak and you have a
celebration, but you don'tnecessarily remember or realize
that there's gonna be a valleyin front of you if you keep
walking.
Yep.
And that's uh it's an important,it's an important lesson because
you know it's it's good tocelebrate, it's good to feel
good about accomplishing and andand looking back on, hey, wow,
(08:20):
look where we come.
I imagine if you take a momentand look back on your on your
life and and all theaccomplishments that you've had,
man, you could have a good longparty about it all, but it
doesn't seem to me you spend awhole lot of time there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:36):
No, you're right about it.
I you know what?
Uh no, I will be honest.
One of the areas that um, and Idon't live with regret, but I do
live with a healthy sense of umwhat would you do different?
And I think that's a veryimportant distinction because I
think regret leads to negativeplaces and spaces mentally.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
(08:57):
You did the best you could basedon the information you had.
One of the things I would dodifferent is exactly what you
just said.
It's in my celebration,celebrating the fact a friend of
mine uh was just visiting withme, and uh he said, you know,
you you you don't often talkabout all of what you've done,
what you have, what you'vebuilt, what you've accomplished.
You don't talk about that.
(09:18):
I said, you know, that's a goodpoint.
I said, that's because I've justmoved on to get it to do it
more.
I just moved on to accomplishingmore.
I've just moved on to impactingmore lives or whatever it might
be.
Um and so I can admit, one ofthe areas that I do need to do,
uh uh uh let me say it this way,that I'm constantly learning to
do a better job of is in thosecelebrations.
Because I think I've done apretty good job of learning how
(09:40):
to pivot and move on to thenext, the next thing, the next,
the next thing to conquer.
And so um, to your point, right?
I don't stay there too long.
I I'm typically, that was great.
Okay, now we gotta go do this.
And what I what I should do andwhat I am learning to do better
is okay, great.
Let's sit in this for a half aday.
Let's enjoy this.
Now let's move on.
(10:01):
Because ultimately, life is acollection of experiences.
Um, that's it.
It's a collection of memories.
Um, the reality is none of it wecan take with us when we exit
this earth in terms of materialthings.
Um, you can't take people withyou when you exit the earth.
What you can take is the impactthat you left while you were in
the earth.
And so I think at the end of theday, um, you know, for me, I'm
(10:25):
learning to constantly celebratemore.
Um, but I think I have, I won'tsay perfected because I'm always
a student, I'm always strivingto get better.
But I but I have, I have, Ihave, uh, I think I've pretty
well figured out how to pivotand move on to the next thing.
And I think sometimes it's theinverse for most people.
They sit in a celebration foryears, but they haven't pivoted
(10:46):
and moved on to the next thing.
I think a great example of thatyou could look at if we were to
use a business example, uh,would be Blockbuster.
You remember Blockbuster?
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Yeah, Blockbuster.
SPEAKER_00 (10:57):
Yeah, I definitely remember.
Yeah, you remember this.
SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
So, Blockbuster, you know, the story goes, of course,
Netflix, the juggernaut that itis today.
The story goes that at one pointBlockbuster had an opportunity
to buy Netflix, and I think itwas like 40 million bucks.
Um, and Blockbuster had been thejuggernaut, and they were
sitting on the success, and theywere Blockbuster.
You know, what is anybody elseever going to do to us?
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
And today, there's one left, I believe it's in
Alaska.
There's one Blockbuster left,and Netflix is, you know, this
juggernaut, this multi-billiondollar multinational operation.
SPEAKER_00 (11:35):
Getting ready to take over some major studios.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Exactly.
You know, like an$80 million, orexcuse me, billion dollar, be it
and for Warner Discovery.
But the point is this is that umBlockbuster spent too much time
celebrating.
So they couldn't pivot.
And I think that's a lesson foreverybody.
Who do you want to be,Blockbuster or Netflix?
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
100%.
I agree.
I'd like to take a second, andyou know, we didn't talk about a
lot of your accomplishments oror even if you don't want to
call it that, is is the placesthat you've explored and the
ways that you touch people, andone of them is music.
Yeah, and we don't think we evenmentioned music on the last
conversation, but it's been abig old part of your journey,
(12:20):
your experience, and what you'veshared with people.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
I think music is one of the waysthat um God really touches us,
you know.
It doesn't need wordsnecessarily, just the sound and
the you know, those notes arejust so powerful.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
Yeah, you know, so I I got you know, so from from the
last episode we did, the the thejoke is I came out of my mom's
room with a Bible and abriefcase.
So I had this affinity towardsbusiness and spirituality.
Um and those two things alwaysworked in tandem for me.
And it's a biblical principle.
Some people see those asseparate, they're not.
Biblically speaking, there's ascripture, Revelation 5:10, that
says God makes us kings andpriests, spiritual and
(13:01):
successful in one person.
Um, and we see this concept fromthis guy named Meltezede.
But the point is this um is thatthat's just I always had this
affinity.
But with that, I also had thislove for music.
And interestingly enough, Itried several different
instruments and didn't like themin uh at all.
I trombone, hated it.
(13:21):
My stepfather played it, that'swhy I tried it, hated it.
Tried trumpet, hated it.
Tried the alto sax, loved itbecause at that time I think
Clinton was president and heplayed sax.
And so, you know, uh, or Iremember Clinton playing sax on
like the Jay Leno show orsomething like that.
Yeah, yeah.
And so uh because I was a kidwhen he was president, but
(13:42):
nonetheless, uh, you know, Iremembered that.
And so as a result of that, Iended up um, you know, thinking
that I liked that.
I was playing alto sax.
I'm like, yeah, you know what?
I don't really, I don't reallylike this.
And so um I eventually um got adrum set because a friend of
mine, he and I were verycompetitive, and he was an
actual musician, he could play,and he got a drum set.
(14:04):
So I went home and said, I wanta drum set.
They said, Well, you can't evenplay drums.
I said, but I'm gonna learn.
I said, just like all the otherinstruments.
I said, no, but this isdifferent.
And it was different.
I got that drum set, I learnedhow to play, taught myself how
to play.
And um, from there, I taughtmyself how to play keys and uh
what have you.
And I was eventually inductedinto the Colorado Gospel Music
(14:24):
Hall of Fame.
And uh and so big leap there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
You go from taught myself a few things, and whoop,
there I go, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
Yeah, to the Hall of Fame, which I didn't even know
we had one until I had thepleasure of being inducted into
it.
And uh for music, and I wroteall of our songs um that we've
released um that folks can getat bishopforman.com.
Amazing music, too.
It's really inspirational.
My favorite of all the songsI've written is this song called
Already One, W-O-N.
(14:53):
And it talks about how everybattle we face, it's ultimately
already won.
We're we're walking out thejourney, but the battle has
already been won.
I wrote that song, um, and allof our music has done amazingly
well, and uh it's it's beenreceived so well.
And uh, you know, I it it's uhit's it was a great, it was a
(15:14):
great accomplishment.
And it's one of those thingswhere I and I'll be honest, I
haven't touched uh songwritingin the last couple of years as
we've been in this transitionalperiod, uh moving our
headquarters from Denver toAtlanta.
But it is one of those thingsthat it's on my, I always have a
list, uh I say a list of thingsthat are pending, and it's on my
list because I've I've gottensome things because what I'll
(15:35):
literally do during a service,I'll just write a song on the
stage.
So actually, let me correct thatstatement.
While I have not sat in a studioand wrote songs, every Sunday
I'm writing a song.
Like literally, I'll justrandomly make something up on
the stage, mic in hand, whateverthe flow is with the musicians,
we'll literally write writesongs right there on the spot.
(15:57):
So let me let me correct thatbecause that's not accurate.
Um, but again, that see, thatkind of shows you my mindset.
I'm so fast moving on to thenext thing.
I didn't even recognize youknow, didn't even recognize that
that's how I was doing that.
But nonetheless, uh love it.
I think music is universal.
It speaks to everybody, speaksto anybody, regardless of your
race, regardless of yourbackground, regardless of even
your musical preferences.
(16:18):
There are some songs that justthe lyrics of it, just the flow
of it, the chords that are usedcan invoke a level of
connectivity, a level ofemotion, a level of depth that
um does something that oftenmaybe conversation couldn't do.
Um, maybe even a presentationcouldn't do, but music has the
ability to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:38):
Yeah, music can touch you in a way that that I
don't know that anything elsecan.
I had a guest that had a majormental disorder, and she was
talking about how music was thetool that she was able to start
to find her way out of it.
And uh, you know, it's reallypowerful.
You know, I'd like to hear alittle bit about your ministry
as well.
Obviously, that's a big part ofof who you are and what you do,
(17:01):
probably the biggest part, Iwould imagine.
Yeah, talking about um, youknow, moving and shaking and and
changing.
And uh why don't you tell us alittle bit about the where you
come from and and where youwhere you are and where you're
going with it?
SPEAKER_02 (17:16):
Got it.
Yeah, so you know, I um I um youyou're right.
Number one, the ministry is ahuge part, it it dominates my
time.
Um, but I love it.
I mean, the impact that we'vehad in the lives of people um is
is fantastic.
We measure it.
Uh, we have something we callharvest at a glance, and uh
we're actually getting ready tochange the name at the top of
the year to History MakersChurch, which just reflects the
(17:40):
next level, the next phase ofwhat we're doing.
But um, but in that, um, youknow, the ministry, it's
multicultural,multi-generational.
We reach a lot of what we callunchurched or dechurched people.
So um for those unfamiliar withthose terms, unchurch just means
somebody never grew up inchurch.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
D-church just means somebody that grew up in church,
but for whatever reason,disconnected, fell away.
So we reach a lot of people inthose two categories.
And so that hence the term thepeople's bishop, because uh I I
just I connect with people rightwhere they're at, regardless of
where they're at, to get themcloser, to go further, faster in
their relationship with God.
(18:17):
And so um that's really thepremise of what we do.
So out of the ministry, uh, youknow, we've so many amazing
things that have happened.
We just crossed the 12,500 markof people who have made
decisions of faith uh and becomeChristians.
Uh, this year alone, we've done,we're knocking at the door of
1,800 just this year.
Um, and uh we've given almost amillion dollars in emissions
(18:39):
domestic and abroad.
Almost 28,000 toys we've givenaway after this Christmas
season, it'll exceed the 28,000mark.
We've adopted thousands offamilies.
Uh, we've given away, you know,over uh a quarter of a million
pounds of food.
At one point we ran Denver's orAurora, the suburb of Denver,
the largest food bank.
Uh, we ran that largestlocation.
(19:01):
So we're all about changinglives.
We have the Bible college wherepeople can earn associates
through doctoral level degrees.
We have the leadership networkthat pours into leaders, not
just church leaders, butbusiness leaders, um, any seven
of the seven spirits of society,art and entertainment, business,
education, government, media,um, church, and uh family.
So, you know, it keeps it keepsme, I won't say busy, because to
(19:23):
me, busy is like being on atreadmill.
I gotta tell you something.
Yesterday, it was the first dayI typically don't like doing
in-gym cardio.
I don't like it at all.
So the last time I've donein-gym cardio, you know, like an
elliptical or treadmill, I don'tlike it because mentally I don't
like the concept of putting outthe energy, but I didn't go
anywhere.
I don't like the I don't likethe construct in my mind.
But in Atlanta, it's been socold that it was in the low 40s
(19:48):
yesterday.
And so I did my first in-gymcardio yesterday.
And uh, and so I was reminded, Iwas like, this isn't bad, but I
was reminded of why I don't likeit.
I say, because this is, youknow, it associates to me, it
connects to busy, where you'rein one place, you're doing, um,
you're putting out energy, butyou're not going anywhere.
So I don't like to say busy, uh,um, but it keeps me very
(20:10):
productive.
Every day is a journey.
Every day it's amazing, youknow, you're you're you're
connecting with people allacross America, around the
world, because we're a hyperchurch, not just in buildings,
but online.
And the majority of peopleconnected to us have actually
never stepped foot in abuilding.
Um, our database is well over16,000 people who are connected,
and the majority of them havenever stepped in a building.
SPEAKER_00 (20:32):
You know, and I I think that's important.
You know, people connect theidea of church to some sort of a
structure, and that wasn't whatJesus was talking about at all.
He was talking about his family,his body, uh the body, and
that's it, you know.
So whether you're in a buildingor in a garden or talking online
(20:55):
or or communicating however youare, that's that's the power of
the church right there.
SPEAKER_02 (21:01):
Right, right, absolutely.
Yeah.
And and to see that, I gotta behonest, that was one of those
evolutions for me because I wasI was very, I was a very big
believer, and and in many ways,still am to some extent, in the
power of gathering physically.
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (21:16):
And so almost to the point to where when we started,
we we got into technology prettyearly with streaming and apps
and all that.
And so for us, it became a thingwhere we were like, okay, we got
to do this and we're gonna dothis pretty early.
We're gonna do this pretty,pretty, you know, pretty, you
know, uh avant-garde at the timewhen streaming used to cost, you
know, 1,500 bucks a month, 2,000bucks a month.
Of course, now most of this isit's it's very cheap.
(21:39):
Um, depending on how you do it,you can even do it free.
Uh but um that was then.
Um, so we were doing that, uh,but I still believed um in the
power of people being in thebuilding.
And then the pandemic hits.
And because of our nature, wejust kept flowing.
In fact, we grew at an amazingrate during that time.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
But um actually people were kind of stuck in a
place and they were looking foruh a connection, they were
looking for for a way to findsome fulfillment in a place
where in a time when therewasn't a lot of that to be had.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Oh, exactly.
And you know, you you sawinstantly the power of a phone,
the power of an internetconnection, the power of a
video.
You saw that instantly.
And I think what that really didum was just show me another way.
So then even when we opened thedoors back up uh during the
pandemic, we noticed some, youknow, uh easing.
(22:39):
Um, Denver was, of course, wewere in Denver primarily at the
time.
And Denver, um, we noticed thatit was our number one streaming
audience.
And so, in seeing this, we wereable to say, okay, we sit we're
seeing this amazing streamingaudience.
We're seeing um these amazingnumbers of people's lives being
impacted.
And for us, um, it really began,you know, this evolutionary
(23:02):
process of saying, you know,we're a hybrid church, um, which
many in practice are.
But I looked at it almost liketwo different business models.
Walmart is a brook and mortarwith a website.
SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Amazon is an online business with regional
distribution.
And uh, you know, the second,and whether people like Walmart
or Amazon, it's not the point,it's just the model that I'm
going to.
Uh, the second is the power.
I mean, listen, people are gonnabe listening to this podcast
across America, around theworld, who have never, they've
never met you in person, nevermet me in person, but their
(23:35):
lives are being impacted.
And so I think there's a lot,um, there's so much to learn and
to gain from that.
Um, and and seeing that.
Because I used to have a verytraditionalist view that you
(24:38):
gotta get in the building, yougotta get in the building, and
and and there is value to that.
But at the same time, there isthe experience that people are
able to have right there in theliving rooms, right there
online, right there watching,um, that uh we see it because
it's just as powerful as peoplewho step foot in the building.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
I agree.
And I'd like to touch on thisbecause you know, as as you
broadcast and you're reachingthis broad audience of many
people that you'll never meet,or or maybe you will, maybe you
won't, but you're gonna you'regonna touch people right that
you that you're not aware of.
Right.
Absolutely.
(25:16):
And it seems to me that you knowyou've gotten that as a an
important element of yourministry because you know that's
that's what Jesus did.
He walked from place to placeand talked to everybody that
came around, and and you know,his whole point was to to touch
all the people he could while hewas here.
And and you're walking in asimilar way, except for you got
(25:39):
technology now in a way thatwasn't around a couple thousand
years ago.
And yet I get the sense, basedon what I've read about you and
what I've heard, is that youhave a very personal and
intimate relationship withanybody who comes near you, and
and you're you're not hard toreach, and you're not um
(26:00):
somebody needs to tug your ear alittle bit.
It seems that seems that youalways have that to offer.
I suspect that there's been someamazing interactions and um
interventions and things thatyou've experienced.
I like it if you could share atleast one of those with our
(26:20):
audience about somebody who youjust you didn't see it coming
and uh somehow, you know, therewas a giant impact.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Yeah, you know that's an amazing question.
Um, so many, because um, and andI don't say this just to click
out a cliche or just you know,certainly not out of
self-organized, but literallyevery day we read the
testimonies, we read the praisereports of lives that are
impacted.
I'll tell you one story thatoften uh it's a similar theme
(26:51):
that happens.
Uh, because everybody goesthrough trauma, drama uh in life
in different ways.
People handle it in differentways.
And uh to your point, I striveto be the kind of person,
despite how full my schedule is,despite how full life is, um, to
make sure that, you know, to me,you can never be too busy for
(27:12):
people.
Because if you're too busy forpeople, like this is the
business of people.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:16):
And so, you know, why have a platform if you're
not gonna connect with people?
Sometimes people will sendmessages, and it takes me a
little bit to get back to it.
You know, on Instagram alone, Iget two, three hundred messages,
often close to four or fivehundred messages a day.
So it takes me a while to getback.
And people, I see people'sresponses.
I'm shocked you responded.
I'm shocked you even got themessage.
And uh, I listened to that and Ithink, you know, you know, well,
(27:39):
there that's the difference.
You're dealing with the people'sbishop.
You know, I want to connect.
But the thing that often comesto mind are thoughts when people
are in deep places of despair.
And sometimes that despair canturn into thoughts of self-harm,
not just ideations, but actions.
And uh, one of the stories thatactually stands out to me the
most, um, this is years ago,there was one of our staffers,
(28:03):
and she um was um, you know, shewas uh going through some things
internally in her mind and whathave you.
And those things really began touh weigh down on her.
And uh, and so one day, um I,you know, I they've been gone
from the campus for a while, andI got this urge to just go to
(28:26):
the campus.
It was the weirdest thingbecause I generally, you know,
just wouldn't go.
And if I would go, I wouldtypically have a staff or
someone with me.
And so I went and I happened tosee your car back there.
And um, yeah, I was like, whatare you doing here?
And you know, and so there's aconversation, and oh, I'm good,
sir.
(28:47):
Everything, you know, was fine,everything's good, everything's
great.
And um, you know, I didn't thinkmuch of it.
I just thought it was a weirdthing.
Um, and this just goes to showyou the power of of what we
started this conversation withof signs, and so um I didn't
think anything else of it.
I just thought, okay, well,maybe there's a reason.
I said there's a reason I camehere.
(29:07):
I don't know what that reasonis, but there's a reason I'm
here because I got from my home,drove all the way over here.
Bye-bye.
And I have no clue why I'm here.
I have no reason to be in thisbuilding.
It wasn't until a couple ofyears later, when I was
listening to a testimony videoof hers, that we found out that
that evening she had justwritten her goodbye letter to
(29:31):
her family and her daughter, andthat night she was planning to
take her life.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Whoa.
SPEAKER_02 (29:37):
She was planning to close to the campus, there was
the you know, like the lightrail um type of a stape stop.
She was planning, according toher, she was planning to jump in
front of that, and that wasgonna be the end of her life.
And she prayed and said, God, Idon't, you know, essentially she
didn't think her life was worthliving anymore.
(30:00):
And uh, and that unless she gota sign that that was gonna be
her last night on the earth.
I have no clue of that.
And after she prays that, whopulls up?
I pull up.
Um and I didn't know that.
And I think that's the powerfulthing.
Now, that theme, I see thathappen all the time.
(30:21):
I have people who say, I wasjust going through the day and I
was watching your video.
I get I get approached by peopleall the time, everywhere.
I was in the gym one day.
Guy walks over to me, and um,you know, he's he walks over, he
turns his phone towards me, andhe shows me a video of me.
And they're like, Yeah, that'sme.
And uh, and he says, uh he says,Oh my God, he says, Listen, I
(30:43):
just moved here from, I believeit was Illinois.
I just moved here to here,meaning Atlanta from Illinois.
He says, uh, he maybe was in his60s, 70s, something like that.
He said, uh, you have no cluehow every day I literally can't
wait to see the video yourelease, to see what you have
for me.
He then shows me his phone andbegins showing me all the videos
(31:05):
I've already said.
And he said, I was going througha rough, I believe it was a uh
uh situation with his career,with his job.
And similar story.
He said, You know, I was justover and I was done.
I just thought life was over.
He said, but I started listeningto your videos, I started
connecting with you, followingyou.
Again, a gentleman I had neverever seen before and uh met
(31:27):
before.
That happens all the time.
One lady, again, at the gym.
A lot of this happens at the gymbecause I spend the most time in
one place outside of, you know,outside of you know,
environment, you know,environments, the office or
whatever.
But um uh and a lady almostfalls off the treadmill and
says, You're the TikTok guy.
(31:47):
I I said that.
She says, Oh my god, she says,You you literally have no clue
how what you do.
Uh she said, I I wait on pinsand needles, just waiting to see
what you're gonna release.
It's the theme of lives whereyou don't know who needed the
small thing you said that feltlike, okay, I can keep living, I
(32:08):
can keep going.
Those stories literally happenevery day.
And I'm not desensitized tothem, but every single day,
there's at least five to ten ofthose stories every single day.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
I love that.
Well, you're clearly living thelife that you're intended to,
and I'm I'm grateful for that.
Um, is there a single thoughtthat you'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
I know, like always, I suspect,and I hope to have you back
again.
We've got Oh, I'd love to.
You connected, you definitelyfull show and you know,
(32:40):
scratched a little bit more, butuh so much more to talk about.
Um, but is there a thought thatyou'd like to leave our
listeners with today?
SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
You know, I I think what I would say is this.
Um, you know, a lot of what wetalked about today, um, we
started the conversation withsigns.
And I think for every personlistening, um God's given you
signs and they're all aroundyou.
Um and I think one of the bestthings to pray is a simple
prayer.
God, let me recognize, let mesee the signs.
(33:10):
The signs are pointing me in theright direction, they're
pointing me to the right people,right places, right things,
right ideas.
Let me recognize the signs.
Let me not only recognize thesigns, but then let me respond
to the signs.
Let me take the action the signis saying to take.
And I think my life is full ofthat, where I've I've seen the
(33:30):
signs and I've responded.
And I'll be honest, I've notalways responded quickly, I've
not always responded accurately,but what I strive to do is to
respond.
And I say to everybody, lookaround you, respond, because
heaven is speaking.
We just have to respond.
SPEAKER_00 (33:44):
I love that.
That's beautiful.
And uh, Kevin, it's been anabsolute treat to share some
more time with you.
I hope to do it again soon.
Um, yeah, and of course, howdoes anybody get a hold of you?
I know there's people waiting ontheir and on their fingers,
pins, and needles like, how theheck do I get a hold of this
guy?
SPEAKER_02 (34:03):
Yeah, just bishopforeman.com.
That's the website that'll getyou connected.
And then on all social platformsat BishopForeman.
And if you're listening to this,I'd love to know that something
spoke life into you.
So please shoot me a message.
You'll get a response.
It might not be for a coupledays, but you will get a
response from me.
Let me know that it uhencouraged you, spoke life to
you, built you up in some way,edified you.
(34:23):
But bishopforeman.com or onsocial at Bishop Foreman for all
the uh social platforms.
If you go to TikTok, make sureyou look for the blue check on
all my platforms.
Look for the blue check.
There's like a hundred fakeprofiles of me on TikTok.
So I always like to say that topeople because we get messages
from people saying, Is thisother than you?
And I almost sometimes it'scomical.
I'm like, well, if you had toask me if that's me, I think
(34:45):
that tells you that it's not me.
But you know, I just like peopleto know that because sometimes
people just search it andsometimes I may not be the one
that comes up for first things.
unknown (34:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Excellent.
Well, Kevin, thank you so much.
Um, and uh just again, gratefulthat you're able to take some
time with us today.
And it's my pleasure.
For all the listeners, this hasbeen another episode of the
Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumba.
I want to thank all of you whoare making this show possible,
and we will see you next time.
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