September 8, 2025 • 28 mins
The journey from addiction to lasting recovery rarely follows a straight line. While treatment programs provide essential first steps, what happens afterward can determine long-term success. In this eye-opening conversation, Jim Boad reveals how he's revolutionizing addiction recovery through structured, supportive housing environments that bridge the crucial gap between intensive treatment and independent living.
With remarkable transparency, Boad shares how the pandemic's disruption to his traditional rental property business led him to discover an unexpected calling. When faced with potential financial ruin, he pivoted toward recovery housing—creating environments where people who've completed initial treatment programs can rebuild their lives within a supportive community. What began as financial necessity quickly evolved into a mission that's changed countless lives.
Boad debunks common misconceptions about recovery housing, explaining how these homes operate without requiring specialized licensing while still maintaining accountability through daily check-ins and random drug testing. He walks us through the practical aspects of the model, from resident selection processes to the protective legal framework provided by the Americans with Disabilities Act, which classifies addiction as a disease.
The financial sustainability of recovery housing creates a rare win-win-win scenario: residents gain affordable, supportive living environments; property owners receive premium rents with minimal management headaches; and operators build purpose-driven businesses. Boad's work through Group Home Accelerator now focuses on empowering entrepreneurs to replicate this model, with the ambitious goal of helping 1,000 people create housing that transforms lives.
Perhaps most compelling are the stories of transformation. When Bode describes a former resident who, after a year in recovery housing, rebuilt an engine, reconnected with family he hadn't seen in 20 years, and achieved his longest period of sobriety since age 14, the profound impact of this work becomes undeniable.
Ready to explore how recovery housing might fit into your investment portfolio or social impact goals? Visit grouphomeaccelerator.com to learn about Jim's programs, or find his guidebook on Amazon to take your first steps toward creating spaces where recovery can flourish.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we've got a special
guest, and the guy's name is JimBode, and we live in a world
that is plagued by addiction andsubstance abuse of all kinds,
(00:22):
and even action abuse, all sortsof things.
We're just living in a messedup world and I have yet to run
upon somebody who is working onthis field, so I'm kind of
interested to learn about this.
Jim's a founder of Group HomeAccelerator, where he teaches
entrepreneurs how to open andgrow recovery in group homes.
He's opened 14 homes in justtwo years and he's on a mission
(00:46):
to help 1,000 people createhousing that changes lives.
Now, this is a bit of acontroversial subject, as many
subjects are.
I know that there's all kindsof I don't even know what
exactly there's.
Probably you're going toexplain a lot to me.
I'll probably learn more inthis show than many shows I've
done, but there's all kinds ofhomes when it comes to halfway
(01:10):
houses and recovery homes andcenters, all sorts of things.
Jim, before we get going,welcome to the show.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you here?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Absolutely Super excited to be show.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you here?
Absolutely Super excited to behere.
Yeah, my recovery home path hasbeen kind of a fun one.
I've actually been running themfor about three years now,
Started out as just a realestate investor with fix and
flips and then rentals and justI'm going to really condense
quite a few years into a shorttime frame there.
But you know, when COVID hit,it really changed my whole
(01:47):
rental perspective because Ipretty much thought I was about
to lose everything becausepeople didn't pay their rent.
Right, I get you Absolutely, andso that really pushed me to
have to find a different pathwith that.
And I didn't really know muchabout recovery housing, but I
knew I've always kind of wantedto help and drug addiction has
been a pretty big part of mylife.
I grew up with family membersand parents that were drug
(02:10):
addicts.
So I've seen it.
I haven't lived it personally,but I saw it through my family
and a lot of friends and, like Isaid, I was looking for a
different path.
And June, scrolling online onenight just trying to get my mind
off of all of my failingrentals, I found somebody
talking about three poems, okay,and I jumped in and a lot of
(02:31):
what he was talking about weremore of elderly care, which just
wasn't really a passion for me.
But then when he startedtalking about the sober living
type homes, it really struck achord.
And as I started getting deeperinto it, I know I had the same
fears I think most people do.
Well, I'm not licensed to dothat.
You know you have to be incertain zoned areas and I just I
(02:51):
don't have the qualificationsor skills to do it, and what I
learned was that you reallydon't need any of those things.
I run only on licensed homesand and that's kind of what
really got me going down thispath.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So tell me a little bit about this world of I don't
know addiction therapy centers,if you will.
I know that, like I was talkingabout, there's all different
categories of things and youknow some of these.
You know exclusive resorts thatmovie stars go to when they get
caught up and they're likeliving in a resort, and then
(03:28):
others are, you know, courtordered, like a psych facility,
and then there's halfway housesand there's all these different
categories of things and itcomes.
Like you know, addiction is arough thing.
I was very fortunate.
It comes.
Like you know, addiction is arough thing.
I was very fortunate.
I battled a little bit ofaddiction early in my life but I
was able to manage it in my ownhouse and didn't have to seek
(03:52):
outside help.
But I consider myself veryfortunate.
I know most people many peopleat least don't find themselves
in that situation.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So tell us a little bit about that world.
Yes, like you were saying,there are many different levels
and types of these addictioncenters and mainly where I fit
in is I fit in after they'veactually had the treatments that
they get.
Okay, that's what keeps meunlicensed is really.
All I provide is housing.
I give a nice, soberenvironment with good structured
(04:24):
rules, but we do have checksand balances.
I do have staff that goes inand checks on the homes.
We do random drug testing andwe will remove people from the
homes if they can't pass thedrug test.
We have a process for it.
It's not one strike and you'recompletely out, but we do get
them out of the house almostimmediately and then, if they
(04:44):
can be clean in two weeks, wewill hold their spot for them
for a fee.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So do you have a staff member that lives on site
or they just come and visit?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I have staff members that do not live on site.
They come around and do dailycheckups, Okay, but the model
can be run where you can havesomeone who lives in the home
actually be that person for you.
So if you're just starting outin these, you're probably going
to do it yourself.
If you've got multiple homeslike if you're an investor who's
just switching a full of yourrental properties to this then
you're probably going to want tohire staff right away.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Sure.
So it sounds like what I'mgathering and what I know about
rental properties and propertiesin general just you know about
rental properties and propertiesin general.
It sounds like you sort of fitoutside of a category that
requires a lot of oversight andyou're basically offering a safe
(05:37):
place for somebody that wantsto recover and you're not
dealing with people that arebeing ordered to do a thing or
still actively engaged in aprogram or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Correct.
We need people when they comeinto our homes.
They have to be sober, theyhave to have already went
through some level of program orat least been sober for 30 days
.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Okay, so that makes some sense.
It lowers the risk level onyour side, I would imagine,
substantially.
I know even good people doreally terrible things under the
spell of substances and itdoesn't matter who you are.
It can get to you real bad andI've seen and experienced so
many just terrible things wheninvolving this.
(06:22):
What about your staff thingswhen involving this?
What about your staff?
Like I'm assuming you dobackground checks and you know
you want to make sure you've gotsome solid people.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You're looking for some kind of a particular
background or you know.
Not specifically, but what hashappened is the majority of my
staff come.
I have a female who runs all ofmy operations and she comes
from the elderly care world.
So she did basically the samething she's doing now, but she
just did it for elderly carehomes, and then I have my main
(06:55):
guy.
I'm down to just one personbecause I've got one guy doing
more now than him.
I used to have two part-timeguys, but now I just went to one
full.
He actually comes from.
You know, his background isn'tgreat, but it's perfect for what
we're doing.
He had a drug addiction and heactually got clean and he opened
his own home up to being one ofthese sober living homes.
(07:15):
He's been a valuable asset tome since the beginning of this,
because he lived in his firstsober living home.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He ended up having two of them and then, once he
started working with me,actually sold both of his homes
and now, now he doesn't have any, he just helps run mine well,
it sounds like being a littleopen-minded about that can be
helpful because, really, thepeople that have the most to
offer, the people that have beenthrough the problem and, uh,
you know, when you go through astruggle, you're given a gift of
(07:43):
empathy and you can identifywith somebody.
You know, when somebody isgoing through a problem like
that, the first you knowdefensive position is you don't
understand what I'm goingthrough, you don't know what I'm
dealing with.
And when you can come back andsay, no, actually I really do.
That's a whole differentconversation.
It is indeed so.
(08:05):
That sounds.
That sounds very positive.
Well, let's talk about thehistory.
You opened up one home out ofone of your rental properties.
It says you've opened up 14homes in the past two years.
Were they all your propertiesor were these other people's as
well?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was a mix, and it's one of the things that I
really help people do as well isyou can get into this and not
actually even have to own a home.
You can rent.
It's just, of course.
You need to be honest andupfront with what you're doing.
You don't want to get into arental acting like you're going
to be the person living thereand then turn it into a sober
living home.
You're going to get in trouble,but you can build great
(08:44):
relationships and ultimately,most of the people that I've
helped get into a rental workwith an investor and that
investor either has moreproperties or will actually buy
more properties once they seehow well this model works.
When you run the model, right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
it's an amazing model .
So you find somebody that isinterested in the project,
whether or not they have aproperty, and then you can help
match them with somebody thateither has a property or can
help acquire a property, so thatthey can begin their dream
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Because you know most landlords.
What they want to do is theywant to buy a house, throw it
over to a leasing agent andcollect checks.
Right, who wouldn't want that?
Lyn ALDEN Exactly.
It's a great model.
There are certain landlordsthat would want to take this on
themselves, but the majority ofpeople out there aren't and
don't.
It's a great connection whenyou can get a good investor with
(09:40):
a good person who wants tooperate these homes.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I know some about.
You know zoning and propertiesand this, and that I know that
you know if you're in an R1neighborhood, there's certain
things you can do in an R2 andall these different types of
zoning that there are.
My assumption is you don't haveone house for one person to be
(10:06):
living there, so how do you workthat out?
What kind of tenancy rate doyou have for each house?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
well, there have been some pretty good trailblazers
on this.
Oxford house is a structured,sober living home and they have
had some really big uh state andfederal case law that set
precedence with this, becauseaddiction is classified as a
disease, so it actually fallsunder ADA, so you can do these
almost anywhere.
(10:35):
I don't recommend that peoplego into HOAs and do it just
because you can, because thereality is is like they can't
discriminate against this andthey will get in trouble.
But it's just.
It's just a fight that youdon't really need to take on.
There's enough properties thataren't in HOAs.
So, cities come in.
(10:56):
I've got a guy I work with outof Texas where the city came to
him.
He had a fourplex and he'srunning one of these and they
told him your building isn'tzoned for this.
I sent him a bunch of the caselaw.
About two weeks later he got areally nice letter saying we're
very sorry, we were incorrect.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Good luck on your venture.
So that makes sense.
The city's trying to keep theirzoning in check so they don't
have an influx of complaintsfrom the people around the thing
that's doing the thing theysaid they weren't going to do,
and if they're on good groundthey don't care one way or the
other who's in the building, aslong as they don't have to deal
(11:30):
with a bunch of complaints.
Correct, so that makes somegood sense.
So back to my question how manypeople, I guess.
Is there a ratio of squarefootage to the house or rooms?
I mean, is it a bunkhouse likean old old school orphanage, or
how do you work it?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
People to bathroom ratio is kind of one of the big
ones, Okay, so you know.
So everybody's got a little bitdifferent, but I believe where
I'm at, I think we can do fourpeople per bathroom.
Okay, so I could put eightpeople in a two-bathroom house.
Now you know, you want enoughbedrooms for it as well.
The way I run mine is I do dotwo people per room because it
(12:15):
makes the most sense.
Also, it helps in thissituation too, because then no
one's ever just bunkering awayin their own room, potentially
doing bad things, hiding stuffor doing things.
You're in there with a littlebit more of accountability.
This is the first step on yourpath back.
It's not the end.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Step Right right, it's a lifetime yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And then because I do have houses where I'll move
people into solo rooms as theyprogress kind of down, because
it's still affordable housing aswell.
So it's really hard to get outthere and you can't even rent an
apartment in my area.
For what you can get one of therooms for.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I can imagine it's like that.
So you're in Texas, right, I'mactually out of Washington State
.
Oh, washington State, I don'tknow why.
I thought you were in CentralTime.
Okay, so whereabouts are youNorthern?
Where are you I?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
am on the west kind of northern side.
I'm right by Olympia, the statecapital.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, All right.
So there's no shortage ofaddiction up in that neck of the
woods.
There is not.
I know plenty of people up inOregon and Washington and
there's a lot of chaos andmayhem up there over those sorts
of things.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
It's everywhere.
I mean, I don't go anywhere.
That's really untouched.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm in Southern California, soit's everywhere.
Yeah yeah, we got it on everystreet corner, everywhere you go
.
So, like what I've discovered,with a lot of things that are
helping people, there's alwaysdouble edged swords to things.
So, for example, you know,doubling people up, it sounds
(13:58):
like on some levels it would bea really good idea, because
you're kind of holding people,keeping an eye on things without
it being obtrusive, but youalso are dealing with
potentially sensitive peoplethat don't know each other.
And do you ever have issueswhere you know people just like
you know, in any situation,where people bunk together in a
dorm of any kind and all of asudden you're like, whoa this?
But it seems like there's apotential for volatility, with
people in sort of a potentiallycompromised state yes, you know
(14:22):
it happens.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
We don't have it a lot.
But we, what we do is we, wehave the ability to ship people
around quite a bit because wehave a lot of we.
What we do is we, we have theability to ship people around
quite a bit because we have alot of space.
It'd be one thing if it wasjust one house and there were
four bedrooms and they're allfull.
Then you're trying to like getother people to move where you
know there's always some kind ofturn.
I mean no one's ever at a full100 capacity 100.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's what I was going to get to next.
So you don generally operate,you know, with people bulging
out the window.
You've always got a littlewiggle room.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
We do.
We have a waiting list most ofthe time, but there's still a
little bit of breaks in there.
It's like we have four peoplein the house same house because
normally if drugs or alcoholenter a home it kind of spreads
through that home very quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So we did have to let four people get out of our
houses, but within the week wehad those four people back in
the house, okay, so so how doessomebody qualify, you know, like
if say, somebody hears aboutthis home, they've gotten
through their program, they knowabout it, they got through
their 30 days sobriety.
Um, you know what do they haveto do?
To to, to even apply or qualify.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
The majority of our people are coming directly out
of some sort of inpatient drugclinic and we have great
relationships with them.
It's one of the things I showpeople how to do to build those
relationships.
So we normally know they'recoming before they're even done
with their program.
Okay, and then we do dointerviews and we run them
through a process because youknow, just kind of seeing where
they're at in life, and we'vegot a set of questions that we
(15:55):
go through and the process isthe same, even if they're not
coming from a drug planning, ifthey're coming straight off the
street well, not off the street,but like we have had people
that, like I'm an alcoholic, Ioff the street.
But like we have had peoplethat, like I'm an alcoholic, I'm
having a really hard timeliving where I'm living.
I can't get away from itbecause all of my roommates
drink, so they want to be inthat sober environment.
We run them just through thesame process okay.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So when it comes to this, I mean, it doesn't sound
like you're signing long-termleases um, how do you operate
that way?
It's not a hotel day-to-day,but what?
How do you do it?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, everything is pretty much.
The nice thing about these isthat they're never really in a
lease.
They're coming into a programso they're never really legally
a tenant, which is one of thenice things where it gives us a
little bit more teeth to removepeople that are doing bad things
, so they don't establishresidency in your place.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, no, they don't Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Helps you a lot, yeah , yeah.
So that helps a lot with beingable to get the bad characters
out, because you have to,because if we can't, then it
will just turn into drug housesthen at that point.
Exactly yeah, but we let peoplestay.
I've had people with me becauseI'm a little over three years
now, so we've had people with usfor a full three years.
We have some people that havecome in and they've been there
for two to four weeks and justit moved on.
(17:13):
Um, but it's it's.
You know, 90 days is kind ofthe minimum really for people to
see really lasting change inthis, and the longer they're
with us, the more it seems likeit's worked, because, uh, any
anybody who's been with us ayear really has gone out and
done some pretty amazing stuff,you know.
They've gotten into good jobs,they've gotten themselves
vehicles, and now I've got agirlfriend that I'm going to
(17:35):
move in with.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Sounds like that foundational support that's hard
to establish when you don'thave a bunch of resources.
So are there any programs thatassist these guys in paying for
their rent, or does this allcome separate?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Lots.
There is lots and lots ofprograms out there right now
state and federally funded.
Almost everybody that comes tous about 90% of the people that
come to us come to us forfunding and then, if they're in
and they're working the program,we have lots of different
funding that we can push them tothat they can apply for.
We've had people that havestayed.
I've got one guy that's beenwith us for over two years and
(18:18):
he's been funded the whole timeand then even when their funding
runs out, we have we have a.
It's like I said, there's kindof move ups.
So I have whole homes withpeople that are just self paying
for themselves and they're in areally good place because now
they're paying their own rentsand they're moving their own
lives forward.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's pretty amazing to see.
Well, that's great.
So are you operating as anonprofit or is this?
How do you operate this program?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I do have both.
I run as a for-profit and anonprofit and my nonprofit is
just starting to raise money anddo scholarships and things for
people.
So people come in and theirfunding runs out.
You know, the last thing wewant to do is tell somebody you
got to move because you can'tpay and you're not fully
recovered?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
yes, so, but you're able to receive funds from
non-profits as a for-profitcorrect.
All right, awesome.
I like to hear that.
So um, so when did you go?
Like?
How many did you do foryourself before you started
helping the first guy set up his?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
um, so you know my 14 .
It has kind of changed a littlebit because I I started kind of
switching properties out, so,like when I was starting with
rentals, I liked little rentalsas well too, because they were
cheap and I could get adifferent thing.
So I could do, you know, twoones and two twos.
So what I've done is I've beenkind of moving all of those off
and moving into less propertiesbut with more beds.
(19:36):
I like to have four to fivebedrooms minimum in my homes,
you know, and I've got somehouses coming up and I'm about
to finish that are 10 bedroomhomes, so so that's, that's kind
of the flow of that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
But when it comes to helping somebody else set up
their their first one, so I mean, that's this business that you
have is helping other people getstarted.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Absolutely, because you know it's the things we
don't know we're always thehardest things to do.
It's teaching people thatthere's just a lot, it's just
the little things.
It's it's picking that niche,you know, because within the
group homes there's all of thedifferent styles of group homes.
You can have elderly care, kidsphasing out of the foster care
system.
You can just do affordablehousing.
(20:24):
You can do, you know, soberliving.
You can do re-entry, which ispeople coming out of prison.
So there's a lot of differentones.
And you know, I've had somepeople that went out there and
they wanted to just blast outand try to do it all and then
you kind of get nothing becauseone guy wasn't telling me he was
doing that.
But as we dug into it I'm likeso what are they saying to you?
And he showed me some of theemails he was getting back from
(20:46):
some of the invasion drugclinics and like you don't
understand what a sober livinghome is, and then understand
what a sober living home isright.
Then I started auditing hisstuff a little bit more and I'm
like bud, this is the problemyou're sending on your website.
You say you help veterans, youhelp elderly, you help this.
Like this isn't what they want.
You have to have a sober livinghome and that's all that can be
in there.
You can't own legal and once heshifted that, he started having
(21:07):
much more success and peoplestarted sending him people to
his house.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So so do you hire yourself as a service or and and
charge for consulting, or doyou partner with people, or how
does it actually?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
work well for the coaching aspect of it.
What I've done is I've got abook out.
It's on amazon, just group homeaccelerator, so that's the
basic blueprint of it.
You know you could read thatand you could pretty much be
able to figure it out and do itall.
It's just not as detailed withthe scripts and the hand holding
.
And then I've got just a freerecorded one where you can just
get that and you can just kindof watch and learn all of the
(21:44):
things that I'll teach youthrough there.
Or we have the live coachingthat I do a script coaching, and
that's where we get into it,where we'll do phone calls
together and script and you canlisten to me, talk to somebody
and do it, or I can listen toyou and then we can go over it
and say, hey, here's how you canimprove that.
Talking with landlords and oneof the big things that really
helped too is like I talk to alot of landlords for people
(22:06):
because they ask why should I dothis, you, why should I do this
?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You know the language An investor.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
This is why you should do it, because you can
get a premium rent.
You've got way less to worryabout.
They're going to deal with allthe repairs and everything on
the home.
Basically, I rent from otherinvestors as well, because it
just makes sense.
It'll help me really evenbetter, but I take care of
everything.
I basically do like a triplenet lease.
I pay for everything.
(22:31):
I basically do like a triplenet lease I pay for everything
and I take care of everything.
They just do what they want.
They get to collect a checkevery month and not have to
think about their house.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
All right.
So you're pretty versatile inwhat you're offering and you'll
probably refine it as you'regoing.
You're only a few years into it, so you're sharpening your
point as you're going along aswell.
Yeah, getting close to the fourwell, yeah, getting close to the
(22:59):
four.
So I love it, I love it.
So I know that.
You know I hear stories on thenews.
I hear, you know, even justlocal thing, not where I live,
so much but you know people thatlive in fancy neighborhoods.
They, you know, all of a suddenone of these homes pops up in
the neighborhood and whetherit's an HOA or not, I don't know
, you know, I know if it is anHOA they get a lot more loud and
(23:19):
cantankerous pretty quickly.
Southern California we have alot of them, but I don't know
the details, but I do know fromtime to time you hear the, you
know the squawking about thesehomes popping up in the
neighborhood and now people arewandering around the streets of
dark and causing trouble,loitering around and doing, you
(23:40):
know, just causing perceived, Idon't know whatever.
You know that people like tohave a problem with things.
Um, how often does that pop up?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
For us not very often , because we have curfews.
We're really high touch.
I think where a lot of theseplaces get into trouble is
somebody who thinks that, hey, Ican just jam 10 people into
this home, make $7,000 a monthoff of this thing and not do any
rules so you give themguidelines that will help them
(24:20):
be successful and if they followthem, they'll probably be
successful.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Absolutely, I like it .
Well, I like to.
We're getting close to the thebitching moment, but I want to.
I always like to hear you knowgetting close to the bitching
moment, but I want to.
I always like to hear you knowsort of that story.
You know, you've been at thisfor three years.
You've been dealing with a lotof people, a lot of homes.
Tell me one story that standsout to you as particularly
insightful or inspiring.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, my favorite one was one of our first guys that
we got in our home.
He spent about a year with us.
When he came to us he wasmissing most of his teeth.
He was pretty broken down atthat point but he didn't really
look at you, wouldn't reallymake eye contact.
He had been a role man.
I mean he'd call trains.
He's got a hell of a hard storyand what was really cool was
(25:07):
when he hit that year he came tous with a big, bright smile
because he got.
He had a little toyota pickuptruck that he rebuilt the engine
on at one of our properties andwas so proud of it and he was
taken off across the country togo reconnect with his family
that he hadn't seen for 20 years.
And you know he broke down andlike, hey, this is the longest
I've been sober, since I was 14years old and he was almost 40.
(25:31):
So it was pretty amazing to seethat.
That's one of those things thatmake people like.
This is why I do this?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, absolutely, I love that.
I love that.
Well, this is the point where Ilike to give you, you know,
whatever the parting shot thatyou want to leave our listeners
with and, maybe most importantly, how they can get ahold of you
if they're interested in maybegetting into this fascinating
field.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Absolutely.
You know, biggest thing I canimpart on people is just taking
that imperfect action.
You got to get out there andjust take that first step.
Whether it's doing this orwhatever that passion is for you
to help people or to move yourlife forward, go make some
imperfect action and make somefailures, because that's where
you're going to get your biggrowth.
And getting a hold of me ispretty easy.
(26:17):
Um, you know, facebook, grouphome accelerator and then just
grouphomeacceleratorcom is whereyou can kind of find about my
programs and what I have tooffer.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Beautiful.
Well, jim, it's been a pleasure.
I've learned a lot and I'm sureour listeners have as well, and
, uh, I appreciate you being onthe show fantastic well, thank
you.
I appreciate you you.
This has been another editionof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I appreciate all the
listeners who've taken the timeto support this show.
We will see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we've got a special
guest, and the guy's name is JimBode, and we live in a world
that is plagued by addiction andsubstance abuse of all kinds,
(00:22):
and even action abuse, all sortsof things.
We're just living in a messedup world and I have yet to run
upon somebody who is working onthis field, so I'm kind of
interested to learn about this.
Jim's a founder of Group HomeAccelerator, where he teaches
entrepreneurs how to open andgrow recovery in group homes.
He's opened 14 homes in justtwo years and he's on a mission
(00:46):
to help 1,000 people createhousing that changes lives.
Now, this is a bit of acontroversial subject, as many
subjects are.
I know that there's all kindsof I don't even know what
exactly there's.
Probably you're going toexplain a lot to me.
I'll probably learn more inthis show than many shows I've
done, but there's all kinds ofhomes when it comes to halfway
(01:10):
houses and recovery homes andcenters, all sorts of things.
Jim, before we get going,welcome to the show.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you here?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Absolutely Super excited to be show.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about yourself and what
brought you here?
Absolutely Super excited to behere.
Yeah, my recovery home path hasbeen kind of a fun one.
I've actually been running themfor about three years now,
Started out as just a realestate investor with fix and
flips and then rentals and justI'm going to really condense
quite a few years into a shorttime frame there.
But you know, when COVID hit,it really changed my whole
(01:47):
rental perspective because Ipretty much thought I was about
to lose everything becausepeople didn't pay their rent.
Right, I get you Absolutely, andso that really pushed me to
have to find a different pathwith that.
And I didn't really know muchabout recovery housing, but I
knew I've always kind of wantedto help and drug addiction has
been a pretty big part of mylife.
I grew up with family membersand parents that were drug
(02:10):
addicts.
So I've seen it.
I haven't lived it personally,but I saw it through my family
and a lot of friends and, like Isaid, I was looking for a
different path.
And June, scrolling online onenight just trying to get my mind
off of all of my failingrentals, I found somebody
talking about three poems, okay,and I jumped in and a lot of
(02:31):
what he was talking about weremore of elderly care, which just
wasn't really a passion for me.
But then when he startedtalking about the sober living
type homes, it really struck achord.
And as I started getting deeperinto it, I know I had the same
fears I think most people do.
Well, I'm not licensed to dothat.
You know you have to be incertain zoned areas and I just I
(02:51):
don't have the qualificationsor skills to do it, and what I
learned was that you reallydon't need any of those things.
I run only on licensed homesand and that's kind of what
really got me going down thispath.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So tell me a little bit about this world of I don't
know addiction therapy centers,if you will.
I know that, like I was talkingabout, there's all different
categories of things and youknow some of these.
You know exclusive resorts thatmovie stars go to when they get
caught up and they're likeliving in a resort, and then
(03:28):
others are, you know, courtordered, like a psych facility,
and then there's halfway housesand there's all these different
categories of things and itcomes.
Like you know, addiction is arough thing.
I was very fortunate.
It comes.
Like you know, addiction is arough thing.
I was very fortunate.
I battled a little bit ofaddiction early in my life but I
was able to manage it in my ownhouse and didn't have to seek
(03:52):
outside help.
But I consider myself veryfortunate.
I know most people many peopleat least don't find themselves
in that situation.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
So tell us a little bit about that world.
Yes, like you were saying,there are many different levels
and types of these addictioncenters and mainly where I fit
in is I fit in after they'veactually had the treatments that
they get.
Okay, that's what keeps meunlicensed is really.
All I provide is housing.
I give a nice, soberenvironment with good structured
(04:24):
rules, but we do have checksand balances.
I do have staff that goes inand checks on the homes.
We do random drug testing andwe will remove people from the
homes if they can't pass thedrug test.
We have a process for it.
It's not one strike and you'recompletely out, but we do get
them out of the house almostimmediately and then, if they
(04:44):
can be clean in two weeks, wewill hold their spot for them
for a fee.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So do you have a staff member that lives on site
or they just come and visit?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I have staff members that do not live on site.
They come around and do dailycheckups, Okay, but the model
can be run where you can havesomeone who lives in the home
actually be that person for you.
So if you're just starting outin these, you're probably going
to do it yourself.
If you've got multiple homeslike if you're an investor who's
just switching a full of yourrental properties to this then
you're probably going to want tohire staff right away.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Sure.
So it sounds like what I'mgathering and what I know about
rental properties and propertiesin general just you know about
rental properties and propertiesin general.
It sounds like you sort of fitoutside of a category that
requires a lot of oversight andyou're basically offering a safe
(05:37):
place for somebody that wantsto recover and you're not
dealing with people that arebeing ordered to do a thing or
still actively engaged in aprogram or something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Correct.
We need people when they comeinto our homes.
They have to be sober, theyhave to have already went
through some level of program orat least been sober for 30 days
.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Okay, so that makes some sense.
It lowers the risk level onyour side, I would imagine,
substantially.
I know even good people doreally terrible things under the
spell of substances and itdoesn't matter who you are.
It can get to you real bad andI've seen and experienced so
many just terrible things wheninvolving this.
(06:22):
What about your staff thingswhen involving this?
What about your staff?
Like I'm assuming you dobackground checks and you know
you want to make sure you've gotsome solid people.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You're looking for some kind of a particular
background or you know.
Not specifically, but what hashappened is the majority of my
staff come.
I have a female who runs all ofmy operations and she comes
from the elderly care world.
So she did basically the samething she's doing now, but she
just did it for elderly carehomes, and then I have my main
(06:55):
guy.
I'm down to just one personbecause I've got one guy doing
more now than him.
I used to have two part-timeguys, but now I just went to one
full.
He actually comes from.
You know, his background isn'tgreat, but it's perfect for what
we're doing.
He had a drug addiction and heactually got clean and he opened
his own home up to being one ofthese sober living homes.
(07:15):
He's been a valuable asset tome since the beginning of this,
because he lived in his firstsober living home.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He ended up having two of them and then, once he
started working with me,actually sold both of his homes
and now, now he doesn't have any, he just helps run mine well,
it sounds like being a littleopen-minded about that can be
helpful because, really, thepeople that have the most to
offer, the people that have beenthrough the problem and, uh,
you know, when you go through astruggle, you're given a gift of
(07:43):
empathy and you can identifywith somebody.
You know, when somebody isgoing through a problem like
that, the first you knowdefensive position is you don't
understand what I'm goingthrough, you don't know what I'm
dealing with.
And when you can come back andsay, no, actually I really do.
That's a whole differentconversation.
It is indeed so.
(08:05):
That sounds.
That sounds very positive.
Well, let's talk about thehistory.
You opened up one home out ofone of your rental properties.
It says you've opened up 14homes in the past two years.
Were they all your propertiesor were these other people's as
well?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was a mix, and it's one of the things that I
really help people do as well isyou can get into this and not
actually even have to own a home.
You can rent.
It's just, of course.
You need to be honest andupfront with what you're doing.
You don't want to get into arental acting like you're going
to be the person living thereand then turn it into a sober
living home.
You're going to get in trouble,but you can build great
(08:44):
relationships and ultimately,most of the people that I've
helped get into a rental workwith an investor and that
investor either has moreproperties or will actually buy
more properties once they seehow well this model works.
When you run the model, right.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
it's an amazing model .
So you find somebody that isinterested in the project,
whether or not they have aproperty, and then you can help
match them with somebody thateither has a property or can
help acquire a property, so thatthey can begin their dream
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Because you know most landlords.
What they want to do is theywant to buy a house, throw it
over to a leasing agent andcollect checks.
Right, who wouldn't want that?
Lyn ALDEN Exactly.
It's a great model.
There are certain landlordsthat would want to take this on
themselves, but the majority ofpeople out there aren't and
don't.
It's a great connection whenyou can get a good investor with
(09:40):
a good person who wants tooperate these homes.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I know some about.
You know zoning and propertiesand this, and that I know that
you know if you're in an R1neighborhood, there's certain
things you can do in an R2 andall these different types of
zoning that there are.
My assumption is you don't haveone house for one person to be
(10:06):
living there, so how do you workthat out?
What kind of tenancy rate doyou have for each house?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
well, there have been some pretty good trailblazers
on this.
Oxford house is a structured,sober living home and they have
had some really big uh state andfederal case law that set
precedence with this, becauseaddiction is classified as a
disease, so it actually fallsunder ADA, so you can do these
almost anywhere.
(10:35):
I don't recommend that peoplego into HOAs and do it just
because you can, because thereality is is like they can't
discriminate against this andthey will get in trouble.
But it's just.
It's just a fight that youdon't really need to take on.
There's enough properties thataren't in HOAs.
So, cities come in.
(10:56):
I've got a guy I work with outof Texas where the city came to
him.
He had a fourplex and he'srunning one of these and they
told him your building isn'tzoned for this.
I sent him a bunch of the caselaw.
About two weeks later he got areally nice letter saying we're
very sorry, we were incorrect.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Good luck on your venture.
So that makes sense.
The city's trying to keep theirzoning in check so they don't
have an influx of complaintsfrom the people around the thing
that's doing the thing theysaid they weren't going to do,
and if they're on good groundthey don't care one way or the
other who's in the building, aslong as they don't have to deal
(11:30):
with a bunch of complaints.
Correct, so that makes somegood sense.
So back to my question how manypeople, I guess.
Is there a ratio of squarefootage to the house or rooms?
I mean, is it a bunkhouse likean old old school orphanage, or
how do you work it?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
People to bathroom ratio is kind of one of the big
ones, Okay, so you know.
So everybody's got a little bitdifferent, but I believe where
I'm at, I think we can do fourpeople per bathroom.
Okay, so I could put eightpeople in a two-bathroom house.
Now you know, you want enoughbedrooms for it as well.
The way I run mine is I do dotwo people per room because it
(12:15):
makes the most sense.
Also, it helps in thissituation too, because then no
one's ever just bunkering awayin their own room, potentially
doing bad things, hiding stuffor doing things.
You're in there with a littlebit more of accountability.
This is the first step on yourpath back.
It's not the end.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Step Right right, it's a lifetime yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And then because I do have houses where I'll move
people into solo rooms as theyprogress kind of down, because
it's still affordable housing aswell.
So it's really hard to get outthere and you can't even rent an
apartment in my area.
For what you can get one of therooms for.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I can imagine it's like that.
So you're in Texas, right, I'mactually out of Washington State
.
Oh, washington State, I don'tknow why.
I thought you were in CentralTime.
Okay, so whereabouts are youNorthern?
Where are you I?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
am on the west kind of northern side.
I'm right by Olympia, the statecapital.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Okay, All right.
So there's no shortage ofaddiction up in that neck of the
woods.
There is not.
I know plenty of people up inOregon and Washington and
there's a lot of chaos andmayhem up there over those sorts
of things.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
It's everywhere.
I mean, I don't go anywhere.
That's really untouched.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm in Southern California, soit's everywhere.
Yeah yeah, we got it on everystreet corner, everywhere you go
.
So, like what I've discovered,with a lot of things that are
helping people, there's alwaysdouble edged swords to things.
So, for example, you know,doubling people up, it sounds
(13:58):
like on some levels it would bea really good idea, because
you're kind of holding people,keeping an eye on things without
it being obtrusive, but youalso are dealing with
potentially sensitive peoplethat don't know each other.
And do you ever have issueswhere you know people just like
you know, in any situation,where people bunk together in a
dorm of any kind and all of asudden you're like, whoa this?
But it seems like there's apotential for volatility, with
people in sort of a potentiallycompromised state yes, you know
(14:22):
it happens.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
We don't have it a lot.
But we, what we do is we, wehave the ability to ship people
around quite a bit because wehave a lot of we.
What we do is we, we have theability to ship people around
quite a bit because we have alot of space.
It'd be one thing if it wasjust one house and there were
four bedrooms and they're allfull.
Then you're trying to like getother people to move where you
know there's always some kind ofturn.
I mean no one's ever at a full100 capacity 100.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's what I was going to get to next.
So you don generally operate,you know, with people bulging
out the window.
You've always got a littlewiggle room.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
We do.
We have a waiting list most ofthe time, but there's still a
little bit of breaks in there.
It's like we have four peoplein the house same house because
normally if drugs or alcoholenter a home it kind of spreads
through that home very quickly.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So we did have to let four people get out of our
houses, but within the week wehad those four people back in
the house, okay, so so how doessomebody qualify, you know, like
if say, somebody hears aboutthis home, they've gotten
through their program, they knowabout it, they got through
their 30 days sobriety.
Um, you know what do they haveto do?
To to, to even apply or qualify.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
The majority of our people are coming directly out
of some sort of inpatient drugclinic and we have great
relationships with them.
It's one of the things I showpeople how to do to build those
relationships.
So we normally know they'recoming before they're even done
with their program.
Okay, and then we do dointerviews and we run them
through a process because youknow, just kind of seeing where
they're at in life, and we'vegot a set of questions that we
(15:55):
go through and the process isthe same, even if they're not
coming from a drug planning, ifthey're coming straight off the
street well, not off the street,but like we have had people
that, like I'm an alcoholic, Ioff the street.
But like we have had peoplethat, like I'm an alcoholic, I'm
having a really hard timeliving where I'm living.
I can't get away from itbecause all of my roommates
drink, so they want to be inthat sober environment.
We run them just through thesame process okay.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So when it comes to this, I mean, it doesn't sound
like you're signing long-termleases um, how do you operate
that way?
It's not a hotel day-to-day,but what?
How do you do it?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, everything is pretty much.
The nice thing about these isthat they're never really in a
lease.
They're coming into a programso they're never really legally
a tenant, which is one of thenice things where it gives us a
little bit more teeth to removepeople that are doing bad things
, so they don't establishresidency in your place.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
No, no, they don't Got it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Helps you a lot, yeah , yeah.
So that helps a lot with beingable to get the bad characters
out, because you have to,because if we can't, then it
will just turn into drug housesthen at that point.
Exactly yeah, but we let peoplestay.
I've had people with me becauseI'm a little over three years
now, so we've had people with usfor a full three years.
We have some people that havecome in and they've been there
for two to four weeks and justit moved on.
(17:13):
Um, but it's it's.
You know, 90 days is kind ofthe minimum really for people to
see really lasting change inthis, and the longer they're
with us, the more it seems likeit's worked, because, uh, any
anybody who's been with us ayear really has gone out and
done some pretty amazing stuff,you know.
They've gotten into good jobs,they've gotten themselves
vehicles, and now I've got agirlfriend that I'm going to
(17:35):
move in with.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Sounds like that foundational support that's hard
to establish when you don'thave a bunch of resources.
So are there any programs thatassist these guys in paying for
their rent, or does this allcome separate?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Lots.
There is lots and lots ofprograms out there right now
state and federally funded.
Almost everybody that comes tous about 90% of the people that
come to us come to us forfunding and then, if they're in
and they're working the program,we have lots of different
funding that we can push them tothat they can apply for.
We've had people that havestayed.
I've got one guy that's beenwith us for over two years and
(18:18):
he's been funded the whole timeand then even when their funding
runs out, we have we have a.
It's like I said, there's kindof move ups.
So I have whole homes withpeople that are just self paying
for themselves and they're in areally good place because now
they're paying their own rentsand they're moving their own
lives forward.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's pretty amazing to see.
Well, that's great.
So are you operating as anonprofit or is this?
How do you operate this program?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
I do have both.
I run as a for-profit and anonprofit and my nonprofit is
just starting to raise money anddo scholarships and things for
people.
So people come in and theirfunding runs out.
You know, the last thing wewant to do is tell somebody you
got to move because you can'tpay and you're not fully
recovered?
Speaker 1 (18:56):
yes, so, but you're able to receive funds from
non-profits as a for-profitcorrect.
All right, awesome.
I like to hear that.
So um, so when did you go?
Like?
How many did you do foryourself before you started
helping the first guy set up his?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
um, so you know my 14 .
It has kind of changed a littlebit because I I started kind of
switching properties out, so,like when I was starting with
rentals, I liked little rentalsas well too, because they were
cheap and I could get adifferent thing.
So I could do, you know, twoones and two twos.
So what I've done is I've beenkind of moving all of those off
and moving into less propertiesbut with more beds.
(19:36):
I like to have four to fivebedrooms minimum in my homes,
you know, and I've got somehouses coming up and I'm about
to finish that are 10 bedroomhomes, so so that's, that's kind
of the flow of that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
But when it comes to helping somebody else set up
their their first one, so I mean, that's this business that you
have is helping other people getstarted.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Absolutely, because you know it's the things we
don't know we're always thehardest things to do.
It's teaching people thatthere's just a lot, it's just
the little things.
It's it's picking that niche,you know, because within the
group homes there's all of thedifferent styles of group homes.
You can have elderly care, kidsphasing out of the foster care
system.
You can just do affordablehousing.
(20:24):
You can do, you know, soberliving.
You can do re-entry, which ispeople coming out of prison.
So there's a lot of differentones.
And you know, I've had somepeople that went out there and
they wanted to just blast outand try to do it all and then
you kind of get nothing becauseone guy wasn't telling me he was
doing that.
But as we dug into it I'm likeso what are they saying to you?
And he showed me some of theemails he was getting back from
(20:46):
some of the invasion drugclinics and like you don't
understand what a sober livinghome is, and then understand
what a sober living home isright.
Then I started auditing hisstuff a little bit more and I'm
like bud, this is the problemyou're sending on your website.
You say you help veterans, youhelp elderly, you help this.
Like this isn't what they want.
You have to have a sober livinghome and that's all that can be
in there.
You can't own legal and once heshifted that, he started having
(21:07):
much more success and peoplestarted sending him people to
his house.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So so do you hire yourself as a service or and and
charge for consulting, or doyou partner with people, or how
does it actually?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
work well for the coaching aspect of it.
What I've done is I've got abook out.
It's on amazon, just group homeaccelerator, so that's the
basic blueprint of it.
You know you could read thatand you could pretty much be
able to figure it out and do itall.
It's just not as detailed withthe scripts and the hand holding
.
And then I've got just a freerecorded one where you can just
get that and you can just kindof watch and learn all of the
(21:44):
things that I'll teach youthrough there.
Or we have the live coachingthat I do a script coaching, and
that's where we get into it,where we'll do phone calls
together and script and you canlisten to me, talk to somebody
and do it, or I can listen toyou and then we can go over it
and say, hey, here's how you canimprove that.
Talking with landlords and oneof the big things that really
helped too is like I talk to alot of landlords for people
(22:06):
because they ask why should I dothis, you, why should I do this
?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
You know the language An investor.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
This is why you should do it, because you can
get a premium rent.
You've got way less to worryabout.
They're going to deal with allthe repairs and everything on
the home.
Basically, I rent from otherinvestors as well, because it
just makes sense.
It'll help me really evenbetter, but I take care of
everything.
I basically do like a triplenet lease.
I pay for everything.
(22:31):
I basically do like a triplenet lease I pay for everything
and I take care of everything.
They just do what they want.
They get to collect a checkevery month and not have to
think about their house.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
All right.
So you're pretty versatile inwhat you're offering and you'll
probably refine it as you'regoing.
You're only a few years into it, so you're sharpening your
point as you're going along aswell.
Yeah, getting close to the fourwell, yeah, getting close to the
(22:59):
four.
So I love it, I love it.
So I know that.
You know I hear stories on thenews.
I hear, you know, even justlocal thing, not where I live,
so much but you know people thatlive in fancy neighborhoods.
They, you know, all of a suddenone of these homes pops up in
the neighborhood and whetherit's an HOA or not, I don't know
, you know, I know if it is anHOA they get a lot more loud and
(23:19):
cantankerous pretty quickly.
Southern California we have alot of them, but I don't know
the details, but I do know fromtime to time you hear the, you
know the squawking about thesehomes popping up in the
neighborhood and now people arewandering around the streets of
dark and causing trouble,loitering around and doing, you
(23:40):
know, just causing perceived, Idon't know whatever.
You know that people like tohave a problem with things.
Um, how often does that pop up?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
For us not very often , because we have curfews.
We're really high touch.
I think where a lot of theseplaces get into trouble is
somebody who thinks that, hey, Ican just jam 10 people into
this home, make $7,000 a monthoff of this thing and not do any
rules so you give themguidelines that will help them
(24:20):
be successful and if they followthem, they'll probably be
successful.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Absolutely, I like it .
Well, I like to.
We're getting close to the thebitching moment, but I want to.
I always like to hear you knowgetting close to the bitching
moment, but I want to.
I always like to hear you knowsort of that story.
You know, you've been at thisfor three years.
You've been dealing with a lotof people, a lot of homes.
Tell me one story that standsout to you as particularly
insightful or inspiring.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Well, my favorite one was one of our first guys that
we got in our home.
He spent about a year with us.
When he came to us he wasmissing most of his teeth.
He was pretty broken down atthat point but he didn't really
look at you, wouldn't reallymake eye contact.
He had been a role man.
I mean he'd call trains.
He's got a hell of a hard storyand what was really cool was
(25:07):
when he hit that year he came tous with a big, bright smile
because he got.
He had a little toyota pickuptruck that he rebuilt the engine
on at one of our properties andwas so proud of it and he was
taken off across the country togo reconnect with his family
that he hadn't seen for 20 years.
And you know he broke down andlike, hey, this is the longest
I've been sober, since I was 14years old and he was almost 40.
(25:31):
So it was pretty amazing to seethat.
That's one of those things thatmake people like.
This is why I do this?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, absolutely, I love that.
I love that.
Well, this is the point where Ilike to give you, you know,
whatever the parting shot thatyou want to leave our listeners
with and, maybe most importantly, how they can get ahold of you
if they're interested in maybegetting into this fascinating
field.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Absolutely.
You know, biggest thing I canimpart on people is just taking
that imperfect action.
You got to get out there andjust take that first step.
Whether it's doing this orwhatever that passion is for you
to help people or to move yourlife forward, go make some
imperfect action and make somefailures, because that's where
you're going to get your biggrowth.
And getting a hold of me ispretty easy.
(26:17):
Um, you know, facebook, grouphome accelerator and then just
grouphomeacceleratorcom is whereyou can kind of find about my
programs and what I have tooffer.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Beautiful.
Well, jim, it's been a pleasure.
I've learned a lot and I'm sureour listeners have as well, and
, uh, I appreciate you being onthe show fantastic well, thank
you.
I appreciate you you.
This has been another editionof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I appreciate all the
listeners who've taken the timeto support this show.
We will see you next time.
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