December 6, 2025 • 36 mins
A “good scan” can feel like a finish line, but we dig into why it’s often just the start of smarter decisions. Joe walks through a favorable MRI, an attentive ENT visit, and the practical next move: get a CT to clarify what’s scar, what’s necrosis, and what—if anything—still needs attention. Along the way, we unpack the real limits of imaging, the differences between diagnostic radiation and therapeutic doses, and how to frame each test around a specific question so you get answers you can act on.
We also talk through the fork in the road if a suspicious area shows up. Needle biopsy can miss or confuse; open surgery can traumatize tissue and may not eliminate microscopic disease. That’s why we map out a measured path: layer CT for anatomy and consider Japan’s methionine PET for metabolic clarity before committing to invasive steps. Joe shares how coming prepared—records, images, drug history, and a clear timeline—transforms the clinical conversation. When you arrive with your binder and your goals, your care team can actually meet you where you are.
Beyond one case, we shine a light on a bolder vision: a dedicated hospital model for stage four patients, led by experts who combine advanced imaging, radiology, and supportive therapies instead of defaulting to “nothing left” and hospice. Many people still have options if we move with focus and creativity. That spirit is alive in our weekly support group where patients compare notes, trade resources, and help each other find second opinions and better questions to bring to their doctors.
If you’re navigating cancer or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers a roadmap: prepare, layer your data, pace your decisions, and keep your agency. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review with the one question you’re planning to ask your doctor next.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI'm excited today we have back
in the studio Dr.
Robert Hoffman.
Here I am.
Welcome back.
It's always great to have youhere.
Thank you, Joe.
It seems great to be here.
Seems like it's been a long timesince we've done a show, and uh,
(00:46):
you know, so much happens.
Like, you know, you live in areally fast-paced world, and um
my world is like a rollercoaster.
I never know what's coming myway, but um a lot water keeps
rolling under the bridge.
It's all good stuff though,right?
You bet.
So I uh I had a doctorappointment with a new doctor
(01:12):
today, and um Dr.
Song had uh ordered an MRI,which I brought over to you.
You saw the results, and it'sseemed pretty favorable.
I would say very favorable.
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, the the thingthat's funny about all these
scans are that they don't allknow what they're looking at.
(01:37):
You know, they tell certainthings, they say, oh well, you
have a mass, or you have someactivity, or you this is solid,
or this is liquid, or you know,there's something happening
here, but they really don't tellyou definitively what's
happening, right?
I mean, they they the they haveto be interpreted, and so
(01:58):
generally what happens is you'llget a a a disk or or some kind
of a file where you can see theactual scan.
And if you know what you'relooking at, it's kind of cool.
But if you don't, it looks likeblobs of things, lights.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Even if you know what you're looking at, every
every piece of information,whether it's a scan or a test,
has a limit.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
Right, exactly.
And I think maybe one of themost important limits is the
size, like it can only see athing if it's big enough to be
seen.
And you know, cancer starts outas a single cell.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
One cell.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
One cell, and one cell turns into two, turns into
four, and before you know it,you got 400,000.
And or a few billion, or a fewbillion, exactly.
And and and that happens a lotfaster than you can imagine.
You know, cancer cells are areby their nature um fast
replicating.
That's part of their theirgenetic makeup, is to grow fast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
And and some of them are not so fast, but they just
keep doing it.
Right.
Or they they're not so fast andthey don't keep doing it, but
they spread.
There's a whole lot of ways forthe cancer to hurt you.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Right.
And and it's all designed forthe cancer to live, and it's
really just a side effect of thecancer living, is that it eats
you up.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Well, the cancer is a parasite, right?
It it um it used to be you,right, uh, and then it kind of
it isn't you anymore, kind of.
It's semi you, and then it be itit becomes a a parasite, yeah.
Right.
It's living off you, yeah, andand it's so stupid it doesn't
(03:45):
know when to stop.
Exactly.
It it it keeps going until itkills you, and it kills itself
as well.
Well, it sometimes you can'tlive long enough for the cancer
to kill you, but it sure allhappens too much.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Exactly, exactly.
So that's really one of mybiggest problems with all these
scans is that um, you know,cancer starts out so small that
nothing can see it.
And you know, there's more andmore tests coming out, blood
tests and different types of umtests that that that recognize
(04:21):
anomalies and things that arelikely to be cancer.
I think there's likely acombination of things that's
always your best bet, but theydon't tell you that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
You know, the doctors don't tell you over they
they don't think in thatdirection very well.
Yeah.
Um you know uh you need a lot oftests, you need a lot of scans,
including multiple types ofscans to really know what's
going on.
Right.
And um you just go and get them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
And you know, everything seems to be a
double-edged sword because likesome of the scans are you know
radioactive, so they'reinjected.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
It's not enough, Joe.
I you know, you go up to 30,000feet in a plane, you probably
get more.
Okay, all right.
Uh and we know a little bit, alittle bit of radioactivity uh
is probably an immunostimulant.
Okay, excuse me, just for fivetwo seconds, please.
(05:22):
Yeah, yeah, no problem.
So I wouldn't necessarily saythe same about having forty
sessions of radiation.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Right, I agree.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
We know that that's a different story.
Right.
Um But I I I don't worry aboutthe scans, I don't worry about
the contrast agents.
I want good info.
Okay.
But you're gonna get you'reprobably gonna get soon or as
soon as you want, the ultimatecancer scan, a MetPed.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Right, right.
In Japan.
Well, that's where I'm that'swhere I'm headed.
So um Dr.
Sol.
SPEAKER_00 (06:15):
Tell me what the doctor said uh the ENT doc said
about this current scan.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was really kind of neat.
Um, this is a new clinic.
Um, the the clinic that I wentto, they've got multiple
branches.
This is a brand new branch thatwas just opened up, I guess.
And this is a doctor I've neverseen before.
Uh, but it was through the sameclinic where the guy that did my
biopsy um back in October oflast year did it.
(06:45):
So they had all my records.
Um I got the MRI and I got it,went back there and got a disc
and brought it in along with um,you know, the the report.
And it was interesting becausewhen I first checked in, you
know, the nurse comes in andgoes over your paperwork and and
(07:07):
asks questions.
And I I come in with this wholestack of information and a disc,
and she starts asking mequestions, and I'm like, boom,
boom, boom, boom, boom.
I got all the answers and andthen more.
And she's like, whoa, whoa, youdon't need me here.
She goes, You're you'recompletely prepared.
Doctor's gonna be real happy totalk to you.
Uh like they're not used topeople walking in having an idea
(07:31):
of what they're doing, and thatbecomes more and more apparent
to me as I walk in, you know,with I don't want to waste this
doctor's time.
I don't know how much time I'mgonna get.
So I want to have everything hemight need so that I can, you
know, get the most out of theexperience.
So he shows up, and you know, Ihad to kind of tell him the
(07:53):
whole story because he didn'tknow me, and all he had was my
records from you know thebiopsy, which he didn't probably
(08:51):
read.
Well, I I think he did actually.
I like this guy.
I like this guy, yeah.
Yeah, I'm I'm actually prettyimpressed.
So the yeah, the first thing Idid, he's also an Asian guy.
I don't know what denomination,but what's his name?
And I'll tell you.
Sun is his last name.
Fong Sun, S-U-N.
SPEAKER_00 (09:13):
Sung.
Whoa, that's a hard one.
It could be a Chinese or or aKorean.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
That's a I was thinking one of the two.
He's kind of tall.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
He's definitely one of the two, it's not Japanese,
yeah.
No, Song with a U.
Yeah.
Um like Sun, yeah, yeah.
Maybe Korean.
All right, 60 Korean, 40Chinese.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
All right.
Well, I I am okay with eitherone of those.
Um, the thing that I liked abouthim was he wasn't, he he was
probably a little bit youngerthan me, but very attentive.
He he I showed first thing I didis I showed him a picture.
I said, This was me in April.
(10:00):
And he looked back, he's like,whoa.
And then he looked at me, he'slike, what side was that on?
He I said, You gotta ask.
I said, That's good, I likethat.
And and so I, you know, Ipointed right to where it was
at, and he's looking at that,and he's looking at the picture,
and then he read the he read thereport of the scan, and um I
(10:20):
told him, you know, sort of thea history of what had happened,
where I went to UCI, and thenthat we proposed the
neo-adjuvant chemo solution.
I told him the three drugs.
Um, I told him that they, youknow, it shrunk it down and they
wouldn't go further.
Um, they wanted to hit me withthe radiation.
(10:41):
When I said that, he kind ofcrinkled his eyes a little bit,
like, really, like, why wouldyou know?
But then he goes, Well, that'stheir standard.
They go, that's the box thatthey operate in.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yes, at least that's their guideline.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Right.
And and and he understood whythey would be the way they were,
but he didn't necessarily agreewith it.
So an ENT is kind of aninteresting doctor because he's
not just a cancer doctor, hedoes ear, nose, and throat, all
different he sees a lot of headand neck cancer, my guess.
Sure.
Oh, absolutely, but he's notexclusive, so he's not stuck in
(11:20):
that that standard of carebubble because he does all sorts
of stuck in the guideline,right?
Absolutely.
So I I tell him now I tell himabout Dr.
Song.
And I you tell Dr.
Sung about Dr.
Song.
I did.
I tell Dr.
Sung about Dr.
(11:41):
Song.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
And um yeah, but after you sing your song, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
But he was very impressed with Dr.
Song.
He says, Wow, that's that's apretty uh pretty incredible
doctor.
I says, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
This is the first time he heard about him.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
Yes, yeah.
He didn't, and and I told himhe's a 80-year-old doctor
working out of uh uh San Diego.
I told him he was actually umone of the doctors that
discovered one of the drugs Iwas taking.
So he was like, okay, this guy'sreally, you know, got us chops.
And uh he was he was impressedwith his willingness to um work
(12:28):
outside of the the standard ofcare guidelines, and and that
he, you know, he just said, I'mI'm I'm really impressed with
this doctor.
And so I said, Okay, well I likethat.
I go, I am too.
And and so now we're getting,you know, through this.
And I he says, well, after helooked at the the reports, he
(12:52):
went and you know, he felt myneck, and uh then he he did take
that camera and he ran it downmy nose.
And um he said it was clear.
He said, Yeah, he's like,there's nothing there.
And um he said, he said, look,look, based on what I'm seeing
(13:13):
and what I feel, he says, youknow, I can feel the mass that's
there, but he said, your bodyjust absorbed this giant thing.
He goes, it's not done yet.
He goes, it's likely to benecrotic tissue or scar tissue
or both.
And he says, you could be doneright now.
And I said, I know, but this isthe critical part is we gotta
(13:37):
know.
Because if I'm not done, I can'tlet it sit there and grow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Well, Joe, you know, you know how how we think.
We think you're never done.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Right.
Well, I I I I talked to himabout my my course of treatment.
I talked about you, I talkedabout my diet, I talked about
um, you know, and what he saidwas, well, there's really, he
said the first thing I would dois just get a CT scan.
(14:09):
I told him about the MetPed inJapan, and he didn't know about
it, but he listened.
And I told him about it.
I told him about the radioactivemethionine, um, I told him about
how there is one here in theStates, but they only use it for
the brain, and they don't have awhole body version of it.
And I said, and he's listeningto me.
He's like, okay, he wasn'tdisagreeing with anything I had
(14:32):
to say.
He he says, I don't know aboutmethionine and this reaction,
but I'm I'm listening.
And and he said, That's seems tobe a good solution, but that's a
long trip and it's a big thing.
And I see he says, why don't wejust order a CT scan here?
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
I I think so, Joe.
It can there's nothing to loseby having a CT scan, and he's
willing to order it, I would gofor it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Well, exactly.
I go, you know, my insurancewill cover it, and whatever you
know, a little bit I gotta pay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
We'll we'll get a little bit more information.
I mean, just good and it's greatthat he's ordering it from you.
You got the MRI, right?
A lot of guys might have saidthat's enough already.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Right.
Well, and and he's he said, youknow, he's listening to me.
He says, You're really, youreally did your work.
He goes, he goes, I I'mimpressed with you know you're
how you're how you're thinking,how you're acting, you're you're
taking control of your own yourown health.
And I says, Well, yeah, I wantto live.
(15:40):
You know, and and I don't knowthat that would happen if I just
listened to the first doctorthat that was directing me.
And God forbid.
Well, exactly.
And so the first doctor wantedto do radiation right away.
Well, the first doctor wanted tooperate and then do oh, yeah,
that one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And well, anyways, so then hegoes, Okay, well, there's I
(16:02):
where my point of view, you cameto me for a consultation to see
what I have to say.
He goes, from my point of view,there's two ways forward after
the CT scan.
So if we do the CT scan and wesee nothing, well, then you're
probably good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
We can't assume that, but what what's that was
his point of view?
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
Yeah.
He says if we see something,sorry, then there's there's two
approaches.
He says, one approach is I cando a needle biopsy, and you
know, we can we can try to getthat where the spot is.
And but he agreed with me thatthat's really a uh a weak
approach.
(16:48):
I said, you know, it it canlikely cause problems if it does
hit something, number one, andit's liable to not hit where it
is and give us a false negative.
So either way, I don't know thatI like that idea.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
He says I don't either.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Yeah, he says the other way is we can go in and
open it up and do a test whileit's open and know for positive
if it's got cancer or not.
If it does have cancer, we canremove the whole thing and go
(17:26):
from there.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Well, Joe, that no matter how much they say they
can remove the whole thing, theycan't.
That's what I told him, anddefinitely what I told him.
And the residual cancer isthere's a big risk that that
surgery will stimulate it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
I agree, and that's what I took.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
If CT shows something, we're gonna go, we're
not gonna do anything, myrecommendation, until we go to
Japan and get a medpet.
Agreed.
Then we sit down, we sit downwith Dr.
Sato and Dr.
Sao, yeah, and see what we'regonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I agree, I I'm right there with you.
I I I listened to him and I Ithought that from his point of
view as a surgeon and as a guywho that's what he does.
I think he gave me what hethought was the very best
solution.
And I I agreed that you know,based on what we're talking
(18:22):
about, I I I liked his histhinking, and and we kind of
parted ways.
SPEAKER_00 (18:27):
I don't really have another course of action with
him until after Well, he you'regonna you're gonna take his C
his prescribed CT scan, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:35):
Well, no, I'm going to Dr.
Song with his recommendation,and Dr.
Song's gonna order the CT.
SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
Okay, so Dr.
Song sent you to that guy.
The guy said, Let's do a CT.
So I'm sure Dr.
Song will order it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Exactly.
And Dr.
Song has already alluded thatthat was possibly gonna be his
next course of action, anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
So that's that Dr.
Song just wanted to hear if hewanted to go in and do a biopsy
or he was gonna think to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
Well, he's also gonna want to hear he put the
camera up your nose and foundnothing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yes, and and not only that, but that Dr.
Sun said he was very, very happyand and impressed with my
results.
When I I told him about thedrugs that I took, uh, you know,
(19:32):
the chemo drugs and um the dietand all the things, and looking
at my picture, uh looking at thebiopsy uh report and and looking
at me now, he was like, Whoa,you know, you're you're he said
what he said was the problemwith you is that we don't have
(19:52):
any case studies that reflectwhat you did because people well
you shouldn't I think maybe youcan send them your paper.
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Here's the case.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
I am going to, and I but but you know, he doesn't
have a uh uh a guideline thatthat's come of that yet.
But I'm it's out of it's it'sout of his yeah, world, it's out
of his universe, exactly, andthat was really what he said.
He was like, you know, you'reyou're you took matters into
(20:22):
your hands and you did what youneeded to do, and you got the
results you were looking for.
And um, you know, I think thatthat's really uh an important
message to all the listenershere is, you know, um when I
walked in there and they werelike surprised that that I was
prepared, I think to myself,well, how would you go into a
(20:43):
doctor and not be prepared?
But then I think back to a yearand a half ago when I first went
to a doctor and I didn't knowanything about what was going
on.
I wasn't prepared.
I didn't know.
I was there to try to figure itout.
And you know, now that I'vegotten some uh some information
and and some guidance and umsome direction and and and some
(21:05):
purpose, it it's it's changed mywhole dynamic.
And now look at the conversationI have with the doctor.
You know, so different from youknow, well, I don't know, I
think I want to do this or that,and they go, Well, we don't
know.
Here's our thing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
And yeah, well, I mean, that's 99.9% of every pay,
all the patients.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
They don't know you're right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
And it uh they're not told to know, and they're
told to just do what they'retold.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
I I I couldn't agree more, and and you know, I think
that's one of the big messagesand in this conversation.
And I I did another um interviewwith a woman yesterday, and she
had she was a writer, and sheshe was a romance novel writer,
but she got diagnosed withbreast cancer um a couple of
(21:53):
years ago, and she was talkingabout her experience with that,
and I said, Well, you know,let's let's walk down that road
together, and and I'll sharewith you, you know, some of the
things I did.
And it was interesting.
Her, you know, the wholeexperience of getting diagnosed
with cancer and then having toreckon with it, acknowledge it,
(22:15):
decide to go and treat it, andthen walk through all these
different um obstacles oropportunities, depending on
where you go, because you don'teven know you spin the wheel of
a doctor and you don't know whoyou're gonna get.
And you know, hopefully you endup in a place like I did where I
found my way to this some goodtreatment, but I didn't I didn't
(22:37):
get put there initially, and thesystem didn't give it to me, you
know.
It was it was through uhresearch and and trial and error
and meeting you and and thegroup and and and you know
knocking on doors and and youknow just going after it, that
that ultimately we've we foundsomething that I think is um you
(22:59):
know making the difference here.
So we had a good conversation,and I I I came up, you know, she
ended up going down a littledifferent route, but when I told
her about the diet and I toldher about, you know, um, you
know, how I'm going after mylong-term treatment and um you
(23:21):
know how important just takingcare of your body is in the
right ways, you know, she waslike, Oh, I want to learn more,
so I'm gonna maybe bring her in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:33):
Taking charge, taking charge.
It's all about taking charge ofyour own destiny.
So much is you know you let theoncologists take over.
You know, you're just anotherone little guy in the waiting
room, next, next, next, next.
Um it's and he's gonna get paidwhether you respond to the chemo
(23:57):
or don't respond, he gets thesame money, um, no incentive.
And they're probably nicepeople, and you know they wish
you well, but they're not boughtinto you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
No, no, they don't have an object.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
I don't know if he buys into every patient.
He's certainly bought into you.
It certainly has.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
I I couldn't agree more.
I I I can tell when we have aconversation and when he looks
at my blood work, and you know,every time that we make some
progress, I I see him light up.
I I like we're winning, youknow.
Not I'm winning, but we'rewinning.
Like he's and it's we, yes, notyou, it's we.
(24:42):
I agree, and I I I feel that,you know, when I go into him,
and I I got the sense that thisnew doctor would be like that,
but he's not a doctor that wouldbe for long care long-term
treatment, anyways.
He would be a stepping stone,you know, on in the pro in the
program.
So I I I feel really good.
I'm I'm looking forward to uhI'm gonna talk to Dr.
(25:03):
Song tomorrow and share with himall of this and hopefully uh
have him order that CT scan anduh then I'll talk to Shahiro and
and start to do the preliminaryum figuring out what I need to
look at, look for um you know,to schedule this Japan trip.
And uh I'm looking forward toit.
(25:24):
So last week you you made a tripto Japan.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Yeah.
Well, I the main thing I wantedto meet with Dr.
Sato, and I told him about mydream about a hospital for stage
four cancer patients.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
And we discussed, and he ended up saying, I'm
gonna build it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
I love it.
I love it.
And like you said before,there's no such thing.
Like there's no no such thing.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Uh the big cancer centers basically boot you out
once you're stage three.
They certainly don't want youaround with you know, some
exceptions, but stage four, goto you know, it's basically uh
you come in, let's just say amedical oncology, you come in,
you get first line, you failfirst line, and this may take a
(26:20):
few years, you fail second line,and then you're offered a
clinical trial, and you take it,and almost all of them fail, and
then you're sent to hospice.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
That's that's it.
It's almost like you know,playing Monopoly, how you go
around the board.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
And um the the the sta and and Dr.
Sado in his book says stage fourdon't give up, and I say that
too.
Right there.
I mean, you can't take somebodyoff the deathbed, but there's a
heck of a lot of stage four thatstill can have a chance.
(27:02):
Let's put it there.
So Dr.
Sato's clinic, it it occupiestwo or three buildings and a
couple of three floors.
It's very uh super equipped forimaging and as well as uh
therapeutic radiology.
(27:25):
So to convert that into ahospital, basically you can
build a couple of floors oranother building on the campus
that has beds.
Right.
And I don't think we need asurgical suite because stage
four is usually not treated bysurgery.
Right.
It can be sent to acollaborating hospital.
(27:45):
But the point is they can thestage four patient can be
admitted and we can do a lot ofthings with them.
And in Japan, the culture is uheven the chemo would not be in
the doctor's office, it would bein the hospital.
Okay.
And a lot of people arehospitalized for the chemo
(28:08):
session overnight or whatever.
It's very different.
Okay.
And it's all covered by nationalhealth insurance, uh, insurance
for everybody, which in thiscountry is considered uh uh the
worst thing that ever happened.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
Um so um it's the worst thing that ever happened
unless you need it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So that was the main point.
He's agreed to do it, and I'msure he's planning it out.
Um that's exciting.
And you've been working with Dr.
Patient to go and to stay.
Yes, and not in hospice wherethey want to and generally what
(28:54):
they do in hospice is they giveyou enough drugs to die.
Right.
Enough sedatives or uh narcoticsor whatever.
They give you the high dose ofthat stuff, get you into a coma,
and and then you you know you'regone in another few hours.
That's the main goal of thehospice.
(29:15):
Drug you up and take you out ofthe box.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Palliative care isn't about getting you well,
it's just about keeping youcomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
No, it's about just facilitating the dying process.
Agreed.
And um it isn't, you know, forsome people, yeah, I get it.
It's like if you don't havewhatever, but I think there's a
very I can't tell you thepercentage, I don't know, but I
know there's a lot of peoplethat could be helped that are
(29:48):
staying for.
If only people would try to helpthem.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
I agree.
And you know, if you havesomebody who wants to live and
they're willing to do what ittakes to live, then it it makes
no sense to me why we don't havea a a facility and and and
because there's no money in it,right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:12):
There's no incentive in it, the doctors are not
trained to treat stage four,they're just told send them off
the hospice.
Right.
Uh in San Diego, the McDonald'swife uh gave huge money for a
fantastic, beautiful hospice.
(30:33):
A nice place to spend your finalcouple days.
Okay.
Um you know, that's not the wayI look at things.
And um so I I hope the stagefour hospital, Dr.
(30:53):
Sado's new hospital.
I hope it'll be an example tothe world.
Uh I doubt it'll catch on veryfast, but at least among us,
we've got a place.
SPEAKER_01 (31:07):
Agreed.
And you know, that's what whatthat's what we're all here is
looking to make change and andyou know, be that change we want
to see out there.
And so, you know, you have toget out of the way.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
You're just one person, I'm just one person.
Right.
Help out, and um, if it doesn'tcatch on, we just do it
ourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Exactly, exactly.
Well, I I want to shed a littlelight again on our Sunday group,
um, Sunday at four o'clock.
I I can't feel strong strongerabout the importance of people
sharing their experience.
We've we've had a lot of newpeople poking their heads in in
the last few weeks, and youknow, I think it's just really
(31:50):
important if anybody that'slistening um is either been
diagnosed with cancer, isrecovering from cancer, knows
somebody who is.
Um all the details coverseverybody in the world.
Exactly.
All the details are in the shownotes on the show, and you know,
you're welcome.
Just click that link.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
It's recorded too, and everybody's gets a free
recording.
SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
Absolutely.
So, and if you're interested,I'm easy to reach.
I'm I'm more than glad to uh toto give you any additional
information.
But you know, this group is isincredible.
It's made up of people fromaround the world that are alive,
and uh many of them would maybenot be alive had they not chosen
(32:36):
some of the treatments, thediet, the the things that we're
doing that we're sharing.
Um, I think there's a hugeamount of hope that gets shared.
Um, there's a lot of inspirationwhen you see one person that's
been willing to do the hardwork, and here he is.
He's here four years later afterthey told him he wasn't gonna
(32:57):
be.
Um, and he's out there helpingother people find these answers.
So um, and there's a dozens ofpeople that that that fit that
bill.
And um, of course, Dr.
Hoffman's here um with hiswisdom and knowledge, just uh
guiding along and answeringquestions and asking a lot of
questions.
You ask, I think, more questionsthan anybody, and I think that's
(33:21):
that's how we find out theseanswers.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
Yeah, that that's uh that's for sure.
And the support the patientsgive each other on that Zoom
group, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Well, I'm I'm proud and pleased to be a part of it,
and um me too.
I talk about it uh as one of theprimary features of treatment is
you know, getting a communityaround you and finding um
finding answers.
You know, we've had a lot ofpeople that you know, this group
(33:55):
is literally scattered acrossthe country and across the
world, so it's not like we havea necessarily a resource for
everybody, no matter where theyare, but we can show you how to
find what you're looking for.
And I think that when somebodycomes in and they say, Well, my
doctor told me this, and theyare approaching it as well,
(34:19):
that's where I am, that there'snot another, there's nothing
more.
And almost immediately one ofour group members will, you
know, toss in an alternative umsolution, or starts asking more
questions, and the personrealizes that, oh, well, maybe I
need to ask this doctor to do athing for me, or maybe I need to
(34:42):
find another doctor, or both.
And you know, all those thingsare legitimate, and uh, you
know, again, the patient needsto be the advocate.
I think that's one of theprimary messages here.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Absolutely.
The patient has to be in charge,Robert.
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
It's always a pleasure to spend time with you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
You uh you're you're you're an example for the world.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Well, and uh as are you.
So we're we make a great team.
I love working with you.
Me too.
I'm looking forward to uh thenext step.
I'm looking forward to findingout what's uh what's inside of
my neck.
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
Well, we're gonna get the CT scan, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
And I think one way or another we should plan Japan.
I think you're right.
I think you're right.
So all right.
Well, we will uh continue thissaga, and um, I'm looking
forward to uh talking to youagain on Sunday.
Me too.
Excellent.
Thanks for having me, Joe.
Oh, it's always a pleasure.
Me too.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
(35:46):
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine.
I want to thank you, Dr.
Hoffman, for joining us.
And I thank you for having me.
Thank the listeners for makingthe show possible, and we will
see you next time.
We sure will.
Well, hello, and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine, andI'm excited today we have back
in the studio Dr.
Robert Hoffman.
Here I am.
Welcome back.
It's always great to have youhere.
Thank you, Joe.
It seems great to be here.
Seems like it's been a long timesince we've done a show, and uh,
(00:46):
you know, so much happens.
Like, you know, you live in areally fast-paced world, and um
my world is like a rollercoaster.
I never know what's coming myway, but um a lot water keeps
rolling under the bridge.
It's all good stuff though,right?
You bet.
So I uh I had a doctorappointment with a new doctor
(01:12):
today, and um Dr.
Song had uh ordered an MRI,which I brought over to you.
You saw the results, and it'sseemed pretty favorable.
I would say very favorable.
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, the the thingthat's funny about all these
scans are that they don't allknow what they're looking at.
(01:37):
You know, they tell certainthings, they say, oh well, you
have a mass, or you have someactivity, or you this is solid,
or this is liquid, or you know,there's something happening
here, but they really don't tellyou definitively what's
happening, right?
I mean, they they the they haveto be interpreted, and so
(01:58):
generally what happens is you'llget a a a disk or or some kind
of a file where you can see theactual scan.
And if you know what you'relooking at, it's kind of cool.
But if you don't, it looks likeblobs of things, lights.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Even if you know what you're looking at, every
every piece of information,whether it's a scan or a test,
has a limit.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
Right, exactly.
And I think maybe one of themost important limits is the
size, like it can only see athing if it's big enough to be
seen.
And you know, cancer starts outas a single cell.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
One cell.
SPEAKER_01 (02:37):
One cell, and one cell turns into two, turns into
four, and before you know it,you got 400,000.
And or a few billion, or a fewbillion, exactly.
And and and that happens a lotfaster than you can imagine.
You know, cancer cells are areby their nature um fast
replicating.
That's part of their theirgenetic makeup, is to grow fast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
And and some of them are not so fast, but they just
keep doing it.
Right.
Or they they're not so fast andthey don't keep doing it, but
they spread.
There's a whole lot of ways forthe cancer to hurt you.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Right.
And and it's all designed forthe cancer to live, and it's
really just a side effect of thecancer living, is that it eats
you up.
SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Well, the cancer is a parasite, right?
It it um it used to be you,right, uh, and then it kind of
it isn't you anymore, kind of.
It's semi you, and then it be itit becomes a a parasite, yeah.
Right.
It's living off you, yeah, andand it's so stupid it doesn't
(03:45):
know when to stop.
Exactly.
It it it keeps going until itkills you, and it kills itself
as well.
Well, it sometimes you can'tlive long enough for the cancer
to kill you, but it sure allhappens too much.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Exactly, exactly.
So that's really one of mybiggest problems with all these
scans is that um, you know,cancer starts out so small that
nothing can see it.
And you know, there's more andmore tests coming out, blood
tests and different types of umtests that that that recognize
(04:21):
anomalies and things that arelikely to be cancer.
I think there's likely acombination of things that's
always your best bet, but theydon't tell you that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
You know, the doctors don't tell you over they
they don't think in thatdirection very well.
Yeah.
Um you know uh you need a lot oftests, you need a lot of scans,
including multiple types ofscans to really know what's
going on.
Right.
And um you just go and get them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
And you know, everything seems to be a
double-edged sword because likesome of the scans are you know
radioactive, so they'reinjected.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
It's not enough, Joe.
I you know, you go up to 30,000feet in a plane, you probably
get more.
Okay, all right.
Uh and we know a little bit, alittle bit of radioactivity uh
is probably an immunostimulant.
Okay, excuse me, just for fivetwo seconds, please.
(05:22):
Yeah, yeah, no problem.
So I wouldn't necessarily saythe same about having forty
sessions of radiation.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Right, I agree.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
We know that that's a different story.
Right.
Um But I I I don't worry aboutthe scans, I don't worry about
the contrast agents.
I want good info.
Okay.
But you're gonna get you'reprobably gonna get soon or as
soon as you want, the ultimatecancer scan, a MetPed.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Right, right.
In Japan.
Well, that's where I'm that'swhere I'm headed.
So um Dr.
Sol.
SPEAKER_00 (06:15):
Tell me what the doctor said uh the ENT doc said
about this current scan.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it was really kind of neat.
Um, this is a new clinic.
Um, the the clinic that I wentto, they've got multiple
branches.
This is a brand new branch thatwas just opened up, I guess.
And this is a doctor I've neverseen before.
Uh, but it was through the sameclinic where the guy that did my
biopsy um back in October oflast year did it.
(06:45):
So they had all my records.
Um I got the MRI and I got it,went back there and got a disc
and brought it in along with um,you know, the the report.
And it was interesting becausewhen I first checked in, you
know, the nurse comes in andgoes over your paperwork and and
(07:07):
asks questions.
And I I come in with this wholestack of information and a disc,
and she starts asking mequestions, and I'm like, boom,
boom, boom, boom, boom.
I got all the answers and andthen more.
And she's like, whoa, whoa, youdon't need me here.
She goes, You're you'recompletely prepared.
Doctor's gonna be real happy totalk to you.
Uh like they're not used topeople walking in having an idea
(07:31):
of what they're doing, and thatbecomes more and more apparent
to me as I walk in, you know,with I don't want to waste this
doctor's time.
I don't know how much time I'mgonna get.
So I want to have everything hemight need so that I can, you
know, get the most out of theexperience.
So he shows up, and you know, Ihad to kind of tell him the
(07:53):
whole story because he didn'tknow me, and all he had was my
records from you know thebiopsy, which he didn't probably
(08:51):
read.
Well, I I think he did actually.
I like this guy.
I like this guy, yeah.
Yeah, I'm I'm actually prettyimpressed.
So the yeah, the first thing Idid, he's also an Asian guy.
I don't know what denomination,but what's his name?
And I'll tell you.
Sun is his last name.
Fong Sun, S-U-N.
SPEAKER_00 (09:13):
Sung.
Whoa, that's a hard one.
It could be a Chinese or or aKorean.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
That's a I was thinking one of the two.
He's kind of tall.
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
He's definitely one of the two, it's not Japanese,
yeah.
No, Song with a U.
Yeah.
Um like Sun, yeah, yeah.
Maybe Korean.
All right, 60 Korean, 40Chinese.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
All right.
Well, I I am okay with eitherone of those.
Um, the thing that I liked abouthim was he wasn't, he he was
probably a little bit youngerthan me, but very attentive.
He he I showed first thing I didis I showed him a picture.
I said, This was me in April.
(10:00):
And he looked back, he's like,whoa.
And then he looked at me, he'slike, what side was that on?
He I said, You gotta ask.
I said, That's good, I likethat.
And and so I, you know, Ipointed right to where it was
at, and he's looking at that,and he's looking at the picture,
and then he read the he read thereport of the scan, and um I
(10:20):
told him, you know, sort of thea history of what had happened,
where I went to UCI, and thenthat we proposed the
neo-adjuvant chemo solution.
I told him the three drugs.
Um, I told him that they, youknow, it shrunk it down and they
wouldn't go further.
Um, they wanted to hit me withthe radiation.
(10:41):
When I said that, he kind ofcrinkled his eyes a little bit,
like, really, like, why wouldyou know?
But then he goes, Well, that'stheir standard.
They go, that's the box thatthey operate in.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yes, at least that's their guideline.
SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
Right.
And and and he understood whythey would be the way they were,
but he didn't necessarily agreewith it.
So an ENT is kind of aninteresting doctor because he's
not just a cancer doctor, hedoes ear, nose, and throat, all
different he sees a lot of headand neck cancer, my guess.
Sure.
Oh, absolutely, but he's notexclusive, so he's not stuck in
(11:20):
that that standard of carebubble because he does all sorts
of stuck in the guideline,right?
Absolutely.
So I I tell him now I tell himabout Dr.
Song.
And I you tell Dr.
Sung about Dr.
Song.
I did.
I tell Dr.
Sung about Dr.
(11:41):
Song.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
And um yeah, but after you sing your song, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
But he was very impressed with Dr.
Song.
He says, Wow, that's that's apretty uh pretty incredible
doctor.
I says, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
This is the first time he heard about him.
SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
Yes, yeah.
He didn't, and and I told himhe's a 80-year-old doctor
working out of uh uh San Diego.
I told him he was actually umone of the doctors that
discovered one of the drugs Iwas taking.
So he was like, okay, this guy'sreally, you know, got us chops.
And uh he was he was impressedwith his willingness to um work
(12:28):
outside of the the standard ofcare guidelines, and and that
he, you know, he just said, I'mI'm I'm really impressed with
this doctor.
And so I said, Okay, well I likethat.
I go, I am too.
And and so now we're getting,you know, through this.
And I he says, well, after helooked at the the reports, he
(12:52):
went and you know, he felt myneck, and uh then he he did take
that camera and he ran it downmy nose.
And um he said it was clear.
He said, Yeah, he's like,there's nothing there.
And um he said, he said, look,look, based on what I'm seeing
(13:13):
and what I feel, he says, youknow, I can feel the mass that's
there, but he said, your bodyjust absorbed this giant thing.
He goes, it's not done yet.
He goes, it's likely to benecrotic tissue or scar tissue
or both.
And he says, you could be doneright now.
And I said, I know, but this isthe critical part is we gotta
(13:37):
know.
Because if I'm not done, I can'tlet it sit there and grow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Well, Joe, you know, you know how how we think.
We think you're never done.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Right.
Well, I I I I talked to himabout my my course of treatment.
I talked about you, I talkedabout my diet, I talked about
um, you know, and what he saidwas, well, there's really, he
said the first thing I would dois just get a CT scan.
(14:09):
I told him about the MetPed inJapan, and he didn't know about
it, but he listened.
And I told him about it.
I told him about the radioactivemethionine, um, I told him about
how there is one here in theStates, but they only use it for
the brain, and they don't have awhole body version of it.
And I said, and he's listeningto me.
He's like, okay, he wasn'tdisagreeing with anything I had
(14:32):
to say.
He he says, I don't know aboutmethionine and this reaction,
but I'm I'm listening.
And and he said, That's seems tobe a good solution, but that's a
long trip and it's a big thing.
And I see he says, why don't wejust order a CT scan here?
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
I I think so, Joe.
It can there's nothing to loseby having a CT scan, and he's
willing to order it, I would gofor it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
Well, exactly.
I go, you know, my insurancewill cover it, and whatever you
know, a little bit I gotta pay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
We'll we'll get a little bit more information.
I mean, just good and it's greatthat he's ordering it from you.
You got the MRI, right?
A lot of guys might have saidthat's enough already.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Right.
Well, and and he's he said, youknow, he's listening to me.
He says, You're really, youreally did your work.
He goes, he goes, I I'mimpressed with you know you're
how you're how you're thinking,how you're acting, you're you're
taking control of your own yourown health.
And I says, Well, yeah, I wantto live.
(15:40):
You know, and and I don't knowthat that would happen if I just
listened to the first doctorthat that was directing me.
And God forbid.
Well, exactly.
And so the first doctor wantedto do radiation right away.
Well, the first doctor wanted tooperate and then do oh, yeah,
that one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And well, anyways, so then hegoes, Okay, well, there's I
(16:02):
where my point of view, you cameto me for a consultation to see
what I have to say.
He goes, from my point of view,there's two ways forward after
the CT scan.
So if we do the CT scan and wesee nothing, well, then you're
probably good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
We can't assume that, but what what's that was
his point of view?
SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
Yeah.
He says if we see something,sorry, then there's there's two
approaches.
He says, one approach is I cando a needle biopsy, and you
know, we can we can try to getthat where the spot is.
And but he agreed with me thatthat's really a uh a weak
approach.
(16:48):
I said, you know, it it canlikely cause problems if it does
hit something, number one, andit's liable to not hit where it
is and give us a false negative.
So either way, I don't know thatI like that idea.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
He says I don't either.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
Yeah, he says the other way is we can go in and
open it up and do a test whileit's open and know for positive
if it's got cancer or not.
If it does have cancer, we canremove the whole thing and go
(17:26):
from there.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Well, Joe, that no matter how much they say they
can remove the whole thing, theycan't.
That's what I told him, anddefinitely what I told him.
And the residual cancer isthere's a big risk that that
surgery will stimulate it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
I agree, and that's what I took.
SPEAKER_00 (17:43):
If CT shows something, we're gonna go, we're
not gonna do anything, myrecommendation, until we go to
Japan and get a medpet.
Agreed.
Then we sit down, we sit downwith Dr.
Sato and Dr.
Sao, yeah, and see what we'regonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I agree, I I'm right there with you.
I I I listened to him and I Ithought that from his point of
view as a surgeon and as a guywho that's what he does.
I think he gave me what hethought was the very best
solution.
And I I agreed that you know,based on what we're talking
(18:22):
about, I I I liked his histhinking, and and we kind of
parted ways.
SPEAKER_00 (18:27):
I don't really have another course of action with
him until after Well, he you'regonna you're gonna take his C
his prescribed CT scan, right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:35):
Well, no, I'm going to Dr.
Song with his recommendation,and Dr.
Song's gonna order the CT.
SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
Okay, so Dr.
Song sent you to that guy.
The guy said, Let's do a CT.
So I'm sure Dr.
Song will order it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:50):
Exactly.
And Dr.
Song has already alluded thatthat was possibly gonna be his
next course of action, anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
So that's that Dr.
Song just wanted to hear if hewanted to go in and do a biopsy
or he was gonna think to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
Well, he's also gonna want to hear he put the
camera up your nose and foundnothing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yes, and and not only that, but that Dr.
Sun said he was very, very happyand and impressed with my
results.
When I I told him about thedrugs that I took, uh, you know,
(19:32):
the chemo drugs and um the dietand all the things, and looking
at my picture, uh looking at thebiopsy uh report and and looking
at me now, he was like, Whoa,you know, you're you're he said
what he said was the problemwith you is that we don't have
(19:52):
any case studies that reflectwhat you did because people well
you shouldn't I think maybe youcan send them your paper.
SPEAKER_00 (20:00):
Here's the case.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
I am going to, and I but but you know, he doesn't
have a uh uh a guideline thatthat's come of that yet.
But I'm it's out of it's it'sout of his yeah, world, it's out
of his universe, exactly, andthat was really what he said.
He was like, you know, you'reyou're you took matters into
(20:22):
your hands and you did what youneeded to do, and you got the
results you were looking for.
And um, you know, I think thatthat's really uh an important
message to all the listenershere is, you know, um when I
walked in there and they werelike surprised that that I was
prepared, I think to myself,well, how would you go into a
(20:43):
doctor and not be prepared?
But then I think back to a yearand a half ago when I first went
to a doctor and I didn't knowanything about what was going
on.
I wasn't prepared.
I didn't know.
I was there to try to figure itout.
And you know, now that I'vegotten some uh some information
and and some guidance and umsome direction and and and some
(21:05):
purpose, it it's it's changed mywhole dynamic.
And now look at the conversationI have with the doctor.
You know, so different from youknow, well, I don't know, I
think I want to do this or that,and they go, Well, we don't
know.
Here's our thing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
And yeah, well, I mean, that's 99.9% of every pay,
all the patients.
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
They don't know you're right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
And it uh they're not told to know, and they're
told to just do what they'retold.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
I I I couldn't agree more, and and you know, I think
that's one of the big messagesand in this conversation.
And I I did another um interviewwith a woman yesterday, and she
had she was a writer, and sheshe was a romance novel writer,
but she got diagnosed withbreast cancer um a couple of
(21:53):
years ago, and she was talkingabout her experience with that,
and I said, Well, you know,let's let's walk down that road
together, and and I'll sharewith you, you know, some of the
things I did.
And it was interesting.
Her, you know, the wholeexperience of getting diagnosed
with cancer and then having toreckon with it, acknowledge it,
(22:15):
decide to go and treat it, andthen walk through all these
different um obstacles oropportunities, depending on
where you go, because you don'teven know you spin the wheel of
a doctor and you don't know whoyou're gonna get.
And you know, hopefully you endup in a place like I did where I
found my way to this some goodtreatment, but I didn't I didn't
(22:37):
get put there initially, and thesystem didn't give it to me, you
know.
It was it was through uhresearch and and trial and error
and meeting you and and thegroup and and and you know
knocking on doors and and youknow just going after it, that
that ultimately we've we foundsomething that I think is um you
(22:59):
know making the difference here.
So we had a good conversation,and I I I came up, you know, she
ended up going down a littledifferent route, but when I told
her about the diet and I toldher about, you know, um, you
know, how I'm going after mylong-term treatment and um you
(23:21):
know how important just takingcare of your body is in the
right ways, you know, she waslike, Oh, I want to learn more,
so I'm gonna maybe bring her in.
SPEAKER_00 (23:33):
Taking charge, taking charge.
It's all about taking charge ofyour own destiny.
So much is you know you let theoncologists take over.
You know, you're just anotherone little guy in the waiting
room, next, next, next, next.
Um it's and he's gonna get paidwhether you respond to the chemo
(23:57):
or don't respond, he gets thesame money, um, no incentive.
And they're probably nicepeople, and you know they wish
you well, but they're not boughtinto you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
No, no, they don't have an object.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
I don't know if he buys into every patient.
He's certainly bought into you.
It certainly has.
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
I I couldn't agree more.
I I I can tell when we have aconversation and when he looks
at my blood work, and you know,every time that we make some
progress, I I see him light up.
I I like we're winning, youknow.
Not I'm winning, but we'rewinning.
Like he's and it's we, yes, notyou, it's we.
(24:42):
I agree, and I I I feel that,you know, when I go into him,
and I I got the sense that thisnew doctor would be like that,
but he's not a doctor that wouldbe for long care long-term
treatment, anyways.
He would be a stepping stone,you know, on in the pro in the
program.
So I I I feel really good.
I'm I'm looking forward to uhI'm gonna talk to Dr.
(25:03):
Song tomorrow and share with himall of this and hopefully uh
have him order that CT scan anduh then I'll talk to Shahiro and
and start to do the preliminaryum figuring out what I need to
look at, look for um you know,to schedule this Japan trip.
And uh I'm looking forward toit.
(25:24):
So last week you you made a tripto Japan.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Yeah.
Well, I the main thing I wantedto meet with Dr.
Sato, and I told him about mydream about a hospital for stage
four cancer patients.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
And we discussed, and he ended up saying, I'm
gonna build it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
I love it.
I love it.
And like you said before,there's no such thing.
Like there's no no such thing.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Uh the big cancer centers basically boot you out
once you're stage three.
They certainly don't want youaround with you know, some
exceptions, but stage four, goto you know, it's basically uh
you come in, let's just say amedical oncology, you come in,
you get first line, you failfirst line, and this may take a
(26:20):
few years, you fail second line,and then you're offered a
clinical trial, and you take it,and almost all of them fail, and
then you're sent to hospice.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
That's that's it.
It's almost like you know,playing Monopoly, how you go
around the board.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
And um the the the sta and and Dr.
Sado in his book says stage fourdon't give up, and I say that
too.
Right there.
I mean, you can't take somebodyoff the deathbed, but there's a
heck of a lot of stage four thatstill can have a chance.
(27:02):
Let's put it there.
So Dr.
Sato's clinic, it it occupiestwo or three buildings and a
couple of three floors.
It's very uh super equipped forimaging and as well as uh
therapeutic radiology.
(27:25):
So to convert that into ahospital, basically you can
build a couple of floors oranother building on the campus
that has beds.
Right.
And I don't think we need asurgical suite because stage
four is usually not treated bysurgery.
Right.
It can be sent to acollaborating hospital.
(27:45):
But the point is they can thestage four patient can be
admitted and we can do a lot ofthings with them.
And in Japan, the culture is uheven the chemo would not be in
the doctor's office, it would bein the hospital.
Okay.
And a lot of people arehospitalized for the chemo
(28:08):
session overnight or whatever.
It's very different.
Okay.
And it's all covered by nationalhealth insurance, uh, insurance
for everybody, which in thiscountry is considered uh uh the
worst thing that ever happened.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:24):
Um so um it's the worst thing that ever happened
unless you need it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:31):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So that was the main point.
He's agreed to do it, and I'msure he's planning it out.
Um that's exciting.
And you've been working with Dr.
Patient to go and to stay.
Yes, and not in hospice wherethey want to and generally what
(28:54):
they do in hospice is they giveyou enough drugs to die.
Right.
Enough sedatives or uh narcoticsor whatever.
They give you the high dose ofthat stuff, get you into a coma,
and and then you you know you'regone in another few hours.
That's the main goal of thehospice.
(29:15):
Drug you up and take you out ofthe box.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Palliative care isn't about getting you well,
it's just about keeping youcomfortable.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
No, it's about just facilitating the dying process.
Agreed.
And um it isn't, you know, forsome people, yeah, I get it.
It's like if you don't havewhatever, but I think there's a
very I can't tell you thepercentage, I don't know, but I
know there's a lot of peoplethat could be helped that are
(29:48):
staying for.
If only people would try to helpthem.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
I agree.
And you know, if you havesomebody who wants to live and
they're willing to do what ittakes to live, then it it makes
no sense to me why we don't havea a a facility and and and
because there's no money in it,right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:12):
There's no incentive in it, the doctors are not
trained to treat stage four,they're just told send them off
the hospice.
Right.
Uh in San Diego, the McDonald'swife uh gave huge money for a
fantastic, beautiful hospice.
(30:33):
A nice place to spend your finalcouple days.
Okay.
Um you know, that's not the wayI look at things.
And um so I I hope the stagefour hospital, Dr.
(30:53):
Sado's new hospital.
I hope it'll be an example tothe world.
Uh I doubt it'll catch on veryfast, but at least among us,
we've got a place.
SPEAKER_01 (31:07):
Agreed.
And you know, that's what whatthat's what we're all here is
looking to make change and andyou know, be that change we want
to see out there.
And so, you know, you have toget out of the way.
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
You're just one person, I'm just one person.
Right.
Help out, and um, if it doesn'tcatch on, we just do it
ourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Exactly, exactly.
Well, I I want to shed a littlelight again on our Sunday group,
um, Sunday at four o'clock.
I I can't feel strong strongerabout the importance of people
sharing their experience.
We've we've had a lot of newpeople poking their heads in in
the last few weeks, and youknow, I think it's just really
(31:50):
important if anybody that'slistening um is either been
diagnosed with cancer, isrecovering from cancer, knows
somebody who is.
Um all the details coverseverybody in the world.
Exactly.
All the details are in the shownotes on the show, and you know,
you're welcome.
Just click that link.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
It's recorded too, and everybody's gets a free
recording.
SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
Absolutely.
So, and if you're interested,I'm easy to reach.
I'm I'm more than glad to uh toto give you any additional
information.
But you know, this group is isincredible.
It's made up of people fromaround the world that are alive,
and uh many of them would maybenot be alive had they not chosen
(32:36):
some of the treatments, thediet, the the things that we're
doing that we're sharing.
Um, I think there's a hugeamount of hope that gets shared.
Um, there's a lot of inspirationwhen you see one person that's
been willing to do the hardwork, and here he is.
He's here four years later afterthey told him he wasn't gonna
(32:57):
be.
Um, and he's out there helpingother people find these answers.
So um, and there's a dozens ofpeople that that that fit that
bill.
And um, of course, Dr.
Hoffman's here um with hiswisdom and knowledge, just uh
guiding along and answeringquestions and asking a lot of
questions.
You ask, I think, more questionsthan anybody, and I think that's
(33:21):
that's how we find out theseanswers.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
Yeah, that that's uh that's for sure.
And the support the patientsgive each other on that Zoom
group, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Well, I'm I'm proud and pleased to be a part of it,
and um me too.
I talk about it uh as one of theprimary features of treatment is
you know, getting a communityaround you and finding um
finding answers.
You know, we've had a lot ofpeople that you know, this group
(33:55):
is literally scattered acrossthe country and across the
world, so it's not like we havea necessarily a resource for
everybody, no matter where theyare, but we can show you how to
find what you're looking for.
And I think that when somebodycomes in and they say, Well, my
doctor told me this, and theyare approaching it as well,
(34:19):
that's where I am, that there'snot another, there's nothing
more.
And almost immediately one ofour group members will, you
know, toss in an alternative umsolution, or starts asking more
questions, and the personrealizes that, oh, well, maybe I
need to ask this doctor to do athing for me, or maybe I need to
(34:42):
find another doctor, or both.
And you know, all those thingsare legitimate, and uh, you
know, again, the patient needsto be the advocate.
I think that's one of theprimary messages here.
SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Absolutely.
The patient has to be in charge,Robert.
SPEAKER_01 (35:02):
It's always a pleasure to spend time with you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
You uh you're you're you're an example for the world.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Well, and uh as are you.
So we're we make a great team.
I love working with you.
Me too.
I'm looking forward to uh thenext step.
I'm looking forward to findingout what's uh what's inside of
my neck.
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
Well, we're gonna get the CT scan, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
And I think one way or another we should plan Japan.
I think you're right.
I think you're right.
So all right.
Well, we will uh continue thissaga, and um, I'm looking
forward to uh talking to youagain on Sunday.
Me too.
Excellent.
Thanks for having me, Joe.
Oh, it's always a pleasure.
Me too.
Well, this has been anotherepisode of the Healthy Living
(35:46):
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine.
I want to thank you, Dr.
Hoffman, for joining us.
And I thank you for having me.
Thank the listeners for makingthe show possible, and we will
see you next time.
We sure will.
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