April 25, 2025 • 35 mins
Navigating the complex world of cancer treatment requires more than just medical expertise—it demands a willingness to question established paradigms and seek out cutting-edge information. In this deeply personal episode, host Joe Grumbine shares the latest developments in his cancer journey, including a setback with his port installation and his preparations for beginning chemotherapy.
Dr. Robert Hoffman of the Anti-Cancer Organization returns to discuss his recent trip to Japan, where he met with Dr. Sato and his groundbreaking MetPet imaging center. Together, they explore the scientific revolution happening in cancer treatment—specifically the shift from viewing cancer primarily through the lens of glucose addiction (the Warburg effect) to understanding the critical role of methionine addiction.
Drawing insights from Thomas Kuhn's landmark book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions," they examine why medical paradigms are so resistant to change despite compelling evidence. As Dr. Hoffman notes, "Science progresses one funeral at a time," reflecting how established viewpoints often only give way when their most ardent defenders are no longer dominant in the field.
The conversation takes a passionate turn when addressing the misinformation surrounding cancer treatments. Both men emphasize the importance of evidence-based approaches, noting that chemotherapy has successfully treated millions of patients over 75+ years, despite what internet videos might claim. They stress the need to evaluate sources based on the strength of evidence—from anecdotes (weak) to large clinical trials (strong).
Perhaps most powerfully, they discuss how patients themselves are driving the methionine revolution by educating themselves through scientific literature. As Dr. Hoffman advises, those facing cancer must "study like crazy" and become experts on their own condition, spending hours on PubMed and similar resources to make informed decisions about their treatment.
If you're battling cancer or supporting someone who is, don't miss the weekly support group meeting every Sunday at 4pm Pacific time, where patients and medical professionals share knowledge and experiences in a supportive environment. Join us to learn why taking charge of your cancer journey might be the most important step you can take toward recovery.
Intro for podcast
information about subscriptions
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have back with me Dr
Robert Hoffman with theAnti-Cancer Organization.
And Robert man, you've beentraveling the world the last
little while, huh let's see.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, I was in Japan for a few days, not quite the
world, but well, the other sideof it and you were able to meet
with some doctors over there andI met with the key person, dr
Sato, who's our most importantcollaborator.
He has the unique who's ourmost important collaborator.
(00:47):
He has the unique MetPetimaging center and he's got lots
of patients getting the bestimaging you can for cancer
methionine PET, metp-pet.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I love it.
I want to.
I'm looking forward to hearingmore about that and I want to
continue our discussion aboutinformation and the structure of
scientific revolution as itapplies.
I think it's a really importantas I'm getting close to
finishing the read on that.
It's a powerful read and Ithink it's important that people
(01:27):
who have opinions about thingsconsider where those opinions
come from.
I did want to bring a littleupdate, so I had a little mishap
at the plant, if you will.
I was scheduled to have my portinstalled last week, or well,
no, I was waiting to getclearance.
They finally gave me clearanceearlier this week and everything
(01:52):
was fast-tracked.
I went in on Tuesday, I got myblood work done, but prior to
that last week I have been sortof tinkering around with this
thing and you know I've beendealing with this thing for a
(02:12):
while and it's gettingoppressive and I am trying to do
everything I can to put thingsin my favor prior to.
You know this first linetreatment I'm going to be doing,
because waiting for me justisn't a good idea.
You know I'm doing my diet, I'mdoing my methioninease, I'm
doing oxygen therapy and I wasdoing this chlorine dioxide
(02:35):
where I was spraying ittopically on my skin and then
putting a little DMSO over it soit would penetrate, thinking
that you know that was going tomaybe start making some things
happen in there.
And it started to.
It actually started to raise upthese little white spots and it
almost looked like a whitehead,but it didn't seem to be filled
(02:58):
with fluid.
And as I continued doing thisand I do it three, four times a
day just a little spritz of thechlorine dioxide, which is a
very safe material, and the DMSO, which causes it to go through
the skin, seemed safe as well.
And it started to, you know,raise these things and then they
(03:18):
would kind of peel away just alittle bit and I thought, wow,
this is good, something'shappening.
At the same time, dr Castro hadrecognized that I was zinc
deficient.
I was put on a zinc acetatesupplement and all of this
activity was happening shortlyafterwards.
So I was under the assumptionthat you know, my immune system
(03:41):
starting to work and recognizethe tumor, maybe it was going to
go and start to attack it alittle bit.
I'm thinking this is a goodidea.
It's continuing to happen alittle bit more aggressively and
I'm like, okay, well, I'm justgoing to keep going and see what
happens.
I wake up Thursday morning aweek ago that's one of the
(04:02):
reasons we didn't do the showthis last week and I must have
scratched it.
You know, this thing's gettingbig and I can't move around
without bumping into it andsleeping's real difficult and
you don't know what you do whenyou're sleeping.
And I woke up in the morningand I had a little nick and
there was a little blood andanother little nick and there
(04:23):
was a little like plasma leakingout, just a little, and I
thought, well, let me make surethis doesn't get a problem.
So I sprayed a little peroxideon it and it bubbled up and I
was like, oh OK, well, let mejust keep doing that.
And throughout the course ofthe day I kept spraying peroxide
on it and it kept bubbling andI didn't think much about it, I
(04:48):
just said, well, it'll go away,you know.
And it continued.
The part that was bleeding wentaway, but the part that was
oozing a little it turned moreinto like white blood cells,
like a little pus, not reallythick or anything, but it was
just a slow, very, very slowdrain.
(05:10):
And I had a friend come over onFriday and it continued.
It was and I was.
I had gotten pretty aggressive,putting that peroxide on after
a while and my friend was kindof intuitive and she says, you
know you got.
You gotta watch out you're notgoing to get an infection.
I was like, yeah, you're right.
And I reached out to Emil and Isaid I told him what happened.
(05:31):
I said you know, I don't know,maybe you've got some insight on
is this going to get in my way?
I'm supposed to be getting aport put in and you know, in the
next few days and I don't wantyou know anything to get in my
way of this chemo.
And he said, well, you need tomake sure you don't have a sore,
(05:51):
an exposed sore, or they maynot give you the chemo because
you know your immune system'sgoing to get trashed while
you're going through the therapyand it wouldn't heal right,
heal right.
So he said you need to makesure that thing gets cleared up.
So I start treating it a littlebit, just kind of.
(06:12):
And it just continued, it didn't?
I kind of messed it up prettybad with that peroxide.
I didn't realize how bad theperoxide was, but it was pretty
strong peroxide and I I went toofar and far and it ulcerated
the area pretty badly.
And you know I just messed up,you know, in an attempt to do
something good.
Sometimes pioneers makemistakes, and that's what I did.
(06:35):
And anyways, I let it go.
It was drying up, it seemed likeit was going to be OK and I
went in on Tuesday to go get myport installed and they said,
well, we need you to do lab workfirst, so you go in an hour
early, get your lab work doneand then we'll go get the port.
I go ahead and get my lab work.
(06:56):
It was real quick, it was justlike one or two tests.
And then I'm sitting there inthe surgery prep and they're
going over everything, whatthey're going to do.
They shaved me down.
We're all ready.
I'm minutes away from gettingrolled in there.
I'm excited.
My wife's already gone off togo get something to eat.
And then all of a sudden theycome back and they say we just
(07:18):
got your blood work back.
Your white blood cell count isup high.
We're not going to be able todo the port today.
And I was just like you'rekidding me.
And so they sent me home and Iwas just like frustrated as all
get out.
As you can imagine, I've beenpushing on this thing for a
couple of months now and we'refinally right there and so
(07:42):
waiting, going back and forthwith the doctor's assistant, and
they're like well, I told himwhat happened and I said you
know, there's a, it's a, it's alittle bit of weeping.
And she says well, you know,your blood cell or your white
blood cell count is generallygoing to be elevated, just
simply because you have cancer.
That's a, that's a normal thingto happen.
And I said but I know this isprobably a part of it.
(08:03):
And so they put me on anantibiotic.
I got on it yesterday afternoon.
I'm taking it every six hours.
I'm clockwork.
As soon as I got theprescription, I ran down, got it
and today the weeping hasstopped and they got me set,
scheduled, to go back tomorrow.
So I'm set to get the port putin tomorrow.
(08:27):
I'm on the antibiotics, so I'mconfident they're going to go
forward with it, and Monday I'mset to have my first round of
chemo.
Fantastic.
So it's been a bumpy road.
But you know, as we're talkingabout information and science
(08:47):
and pioneers you had saidsomething about, you know,
science is advanced one funeralat a time, and that's Max Planck
.
Yeah, and historically,scientists have experimented on
themselves before they've, youknow.
I mean, they're experimentingon everything, but you know,
generally the more dangerousstuff that they test on
(09:09):
themselves and many, manyscientists has died in the in
the quest for knowledge.
And that certainly is nevergoing to be my, my ambition.
But when it comes down tothings, you sometimes you think
something safe and you think youknow my body, I know my body, I
think I know what's going tohappen, but we don't realize
(09:30):
sometimes how delicate and your,your body can be and sometimes
just a little imbalance, goingone side or another, can set off
a chain of events that youreally can't stop easily.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, you've had a few bumps, but it seems that
your trajectory is good.
You've got a good set ofdoctors.
Hopefully the port will go intomorrow.
If you have to wait anothercouple of days, no biggie, but I
(10:08):
think it'll go in tomorrow.
Yeah, I feel good about it.
I think all is good Joe.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, I feel good.
You know, the hardest thing isnot having a target that I can
focus on.
You know that keeps gettingpushed out, pushed out.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, your focus is to get chemo right, and it's a
big event.
Chemo is not trivial.
They want you to be in goodshape for it, right.
They want you to have a port.
Um, they're worried about thehigh blood, high white cell
count, so they want to get youdown to baseline.
(10:52):
It's all normal.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I feel like they're doing a good job.
I feel you know, yeah, you'redoing a great job.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Your attitude is really really good.
The attitude is the mostimportant thing in cancer for
getting better.
More than the medicine, morethan anything, the attitude is
the most important.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's the only thing I control, so I'm certainly not
going to let that one slipthrough me.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
No no, you'll be okay .
You let me know tomorrow aboutthe port.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Oh, I will for sure.
You're on a very short list ofpeople I share information with.
Thank you, joe.
You know it's important.
I think we're good.
Yeah, I feel that too.
I feel like this time we'rethrough it.
I was a little like underneathmy breath.
I was thinking to myself I hopethis isn't gonna mess this up
(11:50):
thinking, you know, somewhere inmy in my heart I'm like I I
might have overdone it and uh,you know, sure enough, I was
right a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And it's okay.
It's okay, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, the doctor team is really great.
They're very communicative,they're very supportive.
They've been very quick torespond.
I can send a message to any ofthe team and they get back with
me within a few hours.
It's been really.
This UCI Medical Center teamhas been really incredible.
(12:26):
Well, I'm really glad to hearthat.
Yeah, I couldn't be morepleased, and previously the
negative experience I had withsome of these doctors was, you
know, putting me in a kind of adefensive spot.
But these guys have just beenreally.
They really seem like they havemy interest in mind, not just
pushing their agenda.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, it's a really good medical school there.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Cutting edge so, yeah , I feel I feel good about it,
so I I'm gonna keep pushingforward and, uh, tomorrow, uh,
at one o'clock, I should begoing under the knife.
So let's, uh, let's see a goodthing going on there.
They're gonna put it on yourwrist, no, no, right on my
(13:14):
shoulder.
Okay, are they?
gonna give you a generalanesthetic or a local uh, it's
gonna be be local, but they'regiving me an IV drip.
They've got some littlecocktail they have planned.
They said they're going to hita big good with the local and
then they're going to give mesome kind of intravenous pain
stuff and anti-anxiety stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I just said Okay, that's great, and I can see why
they want you to be in goodcondition to do that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's not a trivial thing, right, right, yeah.
They say they're putting theport kind of near my heart and
then it's got this little pouchthat ends up being right
underneath the skin and thenwhen they go to hit me with the
chemo, they just pinch it andput the thing right in there and
instead of, you know, tearingmy veins up, up every time, it
(14:03):
just goes right into this littlebladder.
Yeah, so I'm good, very pleasedabout that.
The way I understand, thissounds like a state-of-the-art
port too.
Yeah, yeah, it looked like itwas.
Um, you know, they, they laidout how it was going to be.
It was about a week, about aweek recovery before I can lift
things up again, and you know,I'll walk right out of there.
(14:25):
Right out of there.
I just can't shower for 24hours, but after that it's no
problem.
Don't lift anything heavy for aweek and you'll be good to go.
Sounds good, joe, I never wouldthink that I'd be excited to
put a poison cocktail in my body, but I tell you what I'm
looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, it's going to help you.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
You might have to grit your teeth a bit sometimes,
but it's going to help.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
No, I agree and I'm as prepared as I can be.
I'm now over almost threemonths into this low methionine
diet and I have not wavered.
I haven't touched any meat ordairy or anything.
I've been on a real lowmethionine diet.
I've taken the methionine aids.
I'm even upping the methionineaids to three times a day now as
(15:17):
I'm getting closer to the chemo.
I just want to make everythingon.
I'll be fasting two days before, one day after, to maximize
everything, All the right things.
I feel like it's going to be asgood.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You know it's not going to be a miracle, the
thing's not going to go away ina day, no, and there might even
be a lag phase before it startsto shrink, but we're going to be
good.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But it will begin.
And you know the doctor saidthat this cocktail is usually
very quickly responsive and shehas the highest hopes for that.
So I said, well, we're allsystems go.
So I'm looking forward to thatGood, good show.
You know, one of the thingsthat kind of gets me.
(16:04):
You know it's a crazy ridebecause you know sleep is so
important and this thing has gotme where I'm having a difficult
time sleeping a lot, justsimply because of where it's at
and trying to find a comfortableposition and all that and you
know it gets at you, sometimeswears at you.
And I always have people.
(16:25):
You know I have a wonderfulsupport team, not just the group
on Sunday, but I have wonderfulpeople surrounding me.
I'm surrounded with a lot oflove and care and also a lot of
people who, you know, have theirown thoughts about medicine and
their own thoughts about cancerand their own thoughts about
things.
And you know, I know you hearthis all the time and I'm sure
(16:48):
everybody goes through it.
But in your best interest,people are constantly or my best
interest, people are constantlygiving me advice or tips or
things that they've heard andit's really wild, as you know, I
tell them over and over again Isays listen, I am on this.
I am the world's expert on mycancer right now.
(17:11):
There isn't anybody who knowsmore about my cancer than I do
right now.
And I am doing everything, thatI can do everything and I
guarantee you, if it's good, I'mdoing it and I appreciate do
Everything.
And I guarantee you, if it'sgood, I'm doing it and I
appreciate everybody's input.
But you know, trust me, I'veeither seen it, done it or
chosen not to.
And it's wild how you knowpeople, they receive information
(17:37):
from all these sources.
You know they look on theinternet.
Somebody puts out a video thetruth about chemotherapy, the
truth about this, the truthabout that, and it's a bunch of
crap.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
If you were, on our Zoom call a few weeks ago, or
maybe a little longer ago, drExame Emil said there's levels
of evidence, right, it's somevideo that has no basis whatever
(18:11):
On the one hand, or I heardthis or I heard that on the
other hand, and then you get,for example, on the other hand,
and then you get, for example,on the other extreme, a phase
three clinical trial of a couplethousand people.
That's huge level of evidence,right, these people?
(18:32):
Oh, I heard the video.
My friend told me this orchemos know this.
No good, joe.
Uh, chemotherapy has been givento cancer patients since the
late 40s, believe it or not.
One of the first patients wasBabe Ruth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And he had an initial response.
It was so primitive back then.
Millions of people have beenhelped by chemotherapy, millions
and millions and millions formore than 75 years.
So somebody just says chemo isno good, this has no meaning,
and just take it for that.
(19:15):
Levels of evidence.
You tell me something, okay.
Can you tell me about aclinical trial?
Can you tell me about animalstudies?
Can you?
What scientific publicationscan you tell me about?
You know there's too much ofthis crap going on, not only
about chemo, about a lot ofother things.
(19:36):
People talking without anyfactual basis of what they're
talking about.
People talking without anyfactual basis of what they're
talking about, and you know thatstuff deserves to go in one ear
and out the other.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, and the other side of it is is I have been
touting that book to a lot ofpeople and I've got some people
to buy it and some people thatare reading it, and I think a
lot of it is just simpleignorance.
People believe that they're onthe right path, they believe in
something they you know, they'veseen evidence of something.
This is not religion, Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's science.
Oh, I know Exactly what Ibelieve in.
I believe in data, right.
So you know.
Just, you'll see that many ofthe patients on the Zoom have
had a similar experience.
Sure, sometimes the spouse hasbeen so against what they're
(20:31):
doing.
On and on and on People sayingthings that have no basis and
then a lot of them talking aboutconspiracy theories.
If they read Kuhn they'dunderstand why things take so
long to change.
(20:52):
And it's not about conspiracytheory, it's about how science
progresses and Kuhn makes thatvery clear.
So I hope a lot of people readKuhn.
(21:14):
But remember, chemotherapy hasbeen around for 75, more than 75
years.
Has been around for 75, morethan 75 years.
All those children who wouldautomatically die with the
childhood cancers probably 80%,90% live now.
Why?
Chemo?
Head and neck cancer, as youhave, is one of the most chemo
(21:37):
responsive.
Some of the cancers just don'tmake it with chemo alone, like
pancreatic cancer, and that'swhy we're trying to improve it
with methionine A's, lowmethionine diet, ivermectin.
We're trying to improve what'sout there, not replace it with
no basis.
Trying to improve it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So, as we're talking about paradigms and the changing
of paradigms, you know we'vegone through this, you know it's
really not been that long.
It's only been a few hundredyears really, if you get down to
it, a few thousand years atmost, you know science as we
(22:20):
know it really started maybe inthe 1600s with Galileo or those
guys, or with Copernicus.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Science is pretty new and so it's still a young
endeavor and it takes I mean,people had the sun going around
the earth for hundreds of years,exactly Hundreds of years to
(22:58):
shift the paradigm that theearth goes around the sun, and
in cancer the main paradigm isthe Warburg effect.
Oh, the cancers are alladdicted to glucose, right, and
so much is built around that.
And for the paradigm to changethat cancers are really much
more addicted to methionine,even though there's tons of data
(23:20):
that show it is, kuhn explainswhy it's hard to get that
paradigm shift.
It's like moving a mountain.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Exactly.
Well, there's certain stressorsthat can cause change, but a
lot of times it's when there's amassive anomaly that shows up
and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Once in a while.
That's not going to be the casewith cancer.
No, once in a while that's notgoing to be the case with cancer
.
Max Planck's adage aboutscience progresses one funeral
at a time.
That fits in right.
With Kuhn, right, the paradigmleader leaves the scene.
That makes room for the nextrevolution, right, which results
(24:02):
in the next paradigm.
We're in the middle of thatright now.
We're in a revolution that'sshowing methionine is a very
important part of cancer and wehave to attack it.
We're in the middle of arevolution right now.
We haven't reached where it'sthe dominant paradigm.
It probably won't happen in mylifetime, but it's okay.
(24:25):
One patient at a time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No, I agree and I think that, as we're.
Every time that there'sevidence gathered, every time
another one of these papers getspublished, every time another
physician opens their eyes andentertains the notion, I think
it just it does it.
It it's a very slow movingwheel, but I think it's, I think
it's moving.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It's definitely, definitely moving and I'm
getting so many inquiries frompatients all over the world oh
good, all over the world.
So, as I've said many times,the big force now in moving that
wheel, getting to thismethionine paradigm to be the
(25:12):
dominant one, it's the patients,and eventually they're going to
win.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And you know you've said something a couple of times
in these meetings and foranybody who's listening, there's
a meeting at four o'clock onSunday, pacific time.
Every Sunday it goes on for acouple of hours.
If you're listening to this andyou either have had cancer,
have cancer or know somebody whohas, I encourage you to
participate in this meeting.
We share the link.
(25:39):
If you're, it's, everybody canattend.
You can show up for a minute anhour.
The whole time you can speak orlisten whatever you want.
It's a beautiful group, veryeducated people sharing their
experiences.
Usually there's four or fivephysicians on.
At least Many of them aredealing with their own cancers.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
All the physicians on are dealing with their own
cancer cancers.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
All the physicians on are dealing with their own
cancer.
It's just one of the mostpowerful groups I've ever met,
simply because everybody'ssharing their truths as they're
experiencing them.
And I think the most importantthing people need to remember
about cancer is we don't knowanything about cancer as a whole
because every cancer is unique.
We don't know anything aboutcancer as a whole because every
(26:27):
cancer is unique and we canlearn things about how things
happen, mechanisms and switchesand types of cancers and things
that they do, but the one thingcancer does so quickly and
easily is it changes, and sowe'll never probably know it as
well as we would want to,because it's never going to be
the same for very long.
And I think that thatunderstanding that we're
(26:49):
starting to gather with justthese general rules, like
methionine, addiction, likethese different things that
we're learning, I think, nomatter what cancer adapts to,
these are going to be tools thatwe'll be able to use.
What's your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So when people come along and they have these
opinions about cancer as a bigword a big word, you know
there's only, I think, a handfulof things that we can even
categorize all cancers as really.
I mean, there's just so fewthings that they all share in
common other than you know, theywant to live and they want to
(27:37):
grow.
Short of that, they want tospread.
They want to spread.
Yeah, that's it Just like everyliving thing, right?
They want to spread.
They want to spread.
Yeah, that's it Just like everyliving thing, right?
Yep, so you know the geneticmakeup.
(27:58):
You know I have Dr Castroworking on my biopsy, getting
genetic work on, so I'm hopingthat we're going to uncover some
tools with that.
But there's not any one silverbullet in all of this.
It's always going to be alayered solution and it's always
going to be a lifelong solution.
This is another thing peopleneed to remember.
In my best case scenario, I gointo full remission, I have zero
(28:19):
tumor markers and I get to livethe rest of my life knowing
that if I went back to doingwhat I was doing before, it will
probably come back, and if Ican keep myself in a good one
second for me, joe, I'm sorry,hang on just one second.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh, no problem, no problem one second.
Yeah, no worries I'm on joe'szoom.
I'll call you back in a fewminutes.
Thank you, bye.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Sorry, joe that was jihiro.
Oh, okay, no worries, noworries.
And then for everybody who, whoyou know, doesn't know much
about dr hoffman, he's one ofthe busiest guys I've known and
he deals with people all overthe world and you know, we're
just really blessed that youspend your time with us having
these conversations and you know, I really just wanted to really
(29:12):
focus on that sort of tidbitthat, as cutting edge as we are
and the procedures andtechnologies that are developing
the imaging procedures andtechnologies that are developing
the imaging um, we're still sofar away from really knowing the
things that we wish we knew andand for there being um.
You know, these blanket answers, these blanket cures, um are
(29:36):
just no blanket answers arecured exactly, but we know more
than we used to.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
We've learned so much from all our and we think we
have a good chance with eachpatient to improve their chance
of a good outcome what yoursituation is if you find
(30:06):
yourself diagnosed with canceror a loved one.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You need to spend the rest of your time learning and
meeting people who are willingto share information, and openly
.
You know, and reading books isgreat, but these personal
experiences, people that aredealing with it one-on-one-
critical, dealing with itone-on-one critical.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, I think the what one of the main things
we've learned on our zoom groupyou've got to be in charge of
yourself, absolutely.
Oh, my doctor didn't tell methis, didn't tell me that.
Okay, go learn, go study 12hours a day.
Your life depends on it.
We can't depend on somebodythat's going to do it for us.
The doc, he, she can offer us alot, but only we can take full
(30:55):
responsibility for ourself andget on PubMed and learn and
learn and learn.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yes, 100%.
That is the best advice anybodycould get, and we live in a
world where we have access tothe latest science at our
fingertips.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
We've got 40 million papers on PubMed.
Yes, it is.
The PubMed basically containsthe current knowledge of science
.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
It's there the current knowledge of science.
It's there.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yes, so people with cancer have to study like crazy
to learn as much as they can, tohelp themselves as much as they
can.
Like you, you went in and hadsuch an intelligent conversation
with the doctor and she agreedwith what you wanted, because
you came to her with facts andshe respects my opinion.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
through this and now we communicate on a different
level and it changes that littleparadigm.
When you go to a doctor andyou're submissive or just don't
have much to say.
They were going to give youwhat they think that you need.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But when you get your three minutes and the next
patient comes in.
But if you go in there andyou're prepared and you're
asking a lot of importantquestions, the doc's not going
to kick you out of that room sofast.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Not at all, and you know they want you to do well,
they want you to recover.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You wouldn't be a doctor if you didn't want your
patient to do well, exactly sothat's for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So I think that's another piece of it.
When a patient is activelyworking on their own behalf, I
think it shows the doctor theirwillingness to do what it takes.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And so the doc says I'm going to do extra for you
because you're going out of yourway to do extra for yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Exactly A hundred percent.
I'm running a little bit low onjuice, and that's okay.
We're running a little bit outof time, so we're going to call
it a day.
I appreciate you being heretoday.
We had a great discussion Everytime.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
And let me know tomorrow about the port.
I will.
I expect it to be in.
If you gotta wait a couple moredays, it's okay, but we're
hoping to get it in tomorrow.
But if not, we'll get it in onmonday or tuesday, you bet all
right.
Well, we'll see you on sunday,for sure I'll call you and see
you next thursday and see anyother time in between,
(33:23):
absolutely All right.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Thank you for joining the.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Healthy Living Podcast.
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Thank you for having me.
You bet.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today I have back with me Dr
Robert Hoffman with theAnti-Cancer Organization.
And Robert man, you've beentraveling the world the last
little while, huh let's see.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, I was in Japan for a few days, not quite the
world, but well, the other sideof it and you were able to meet
with some doctors over there andI met with the key person, dr
Sato, who's our most importantcollaborator.
He has the unique who's ourmost important collaborator.
(00:47):
He has the unique MetPetimaging center and he's got lots
of patients getting the bestimaging you can for cancer
methionine PET, metp-pet.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I love it.
I want to.
I'm looking forward to hearingmore about that and I want to
continue our discussion aboutinformation and the structure of
scientific revolution as itapplies.
I think it's a really importantas I'm getting close to
finishing the read on that.
It's a powerful read and Ithink it's important that people
(01:27):
who have opinions about thingsconsider where those opinions
come from.
I did want to bring a littleupdate, so I had a little mishap
at the plant, if you will.
I was scheduled to have my portinstalled last week, or well,
no, I was waiting to getclearance.
They finally gave me clearanceearlier this week and everything
(01:52):
was fast-tracked.
I went in on Tuesday, I got myblood work done, but prior to
that last week I have been sortof tinkering around with this
thing and you know I've beendealing with this thing for a
(02:12):
while and it's gettingoppressive and I am trying to do
everything I can to put thingsin my favor prior to.
You know this first linetreatment I'm going to be doing,
because waiting for me justisn't a good idea.
You know I'm doing my diet, I'mdoing my methioninease, I'm
doing oxygen therapy and I wasdoing this chlorine dioxide
(02:35):
where I was spraying ittopically on my skin and then
putting a little DMSO over it soit would penetrate, thinking
that you know that was going tomaybe start making some things
happen in there.
And it started to.
It actually started to raise upthese little white spots and it
almost looked like a whitehead,but it didn't seem to be filled
(02:58):
with fluid.
And as I continued doing thisand I do it three, four times a
day just a little spritz of thechlorine dioxide, which is a
very safe material, and the DMSO, which causes it to go through
the skin, seemed safe as well.
And it started to, you know,raise these things and then they
(03:18):
would kind of peel away just alittle bit and I thought, wow,
this is good, something'shappening.
At the same time, dr Castro hadrecognized that I was zinc
deficient.
I was put on a zinc acetatesupplement and all of this
activity was happening shortlyafterwards.
So I was under the assumptionthat you know, my immune system
(03:41):
starting to work and recognizethe tumor, maybe it was going to
go and start to attack it alittle bit.
I'm thinking this is a goodidea.
It's continuing to happen alittle bit more aggressively and
I'm like, okay, well, I'm justgoing to keep going and see what
happens.
I wake up Thursday morning aweek ago that's one of the
(04:02):
reasons we didn't do the showthis last week and I must have
scratched it.
You know, this thing's gettingbig and I can't move around
without bumping into it andsleeping's real difficult and
you don't know what you do whenyou're sleeping.
And I woke up in the morningand I had a little nick and
there was a little blood andanother little nick and there
(04:23):
was a little like plasma leakingout, just a little, and I
thought, well, let me make surethis doesn't get a problem.
So I sprayed a little peroxideon it and it bubbled up and I
was like, oh OK, well, let mejust keep doing that.
And throughout the course ofthe day I kept spraying peroxide
on it and it kept bubbling andI didn't think much about it, I
(04:48):
just said, well, it'll go away,you know.
And it continued.
The part that was bleeding wentaway, but the part that was
oozing a little it turned moreinto like white blood cells,
like a little pus, not reallythick or anything, but it was
just a slow, very, very slowdrain.
(05:10):
And I had a friend come over onFriday and it continued.
It was and I was.
I had gotten pretty aggressive,putting that peroxide on after
a while and my friend was kindof intuitive and she says, you
know you got.
You gotta watch out you're notgoing to get an infection.
I was like, yeah, you're right.
And I reached out to Emil and Isaid I told him what happened.
(05:31):
I said you know, I don't know,maybe you've got some insight on
is this going to get in my way?
I'm supposed to be getting aport put in and you know, in the
next few days and I don't wantyou know anything to get in my
way of this chemo.
And he said, well, you need tomake sure you don't have a sore,
(05:51):
an exposed sore, or they maynot give you the chemo because
you know your immune system'sgoing to get trashed while
you're going through the therapyand it wouldn't heal right,
heal right.
So he said you need to makesure that thing gets cleared up.
So I start treating it a littlebit, just kind of.
(06:12):
And it just continued, it didn't?
I kind of messed it up prettybad with that peroxide.
I didn't realize how bad theperoxide was, but it was pretty
strong peroxide and I I went toofar and far and it ulcerated
the area pretty badly.
And you know I just messed up,you know, in an attempt to do
something good.
Sometimes pioneers makemistakes, and that's what I did.
(06:35):
And anyways, I let it go.
It was drying up, it seemed likeit was going to be OK and I
went in on Tuesday to go get myport installed and they said,
well, we need you to do lab workfirst, so you go in an hour
early, get your lab work doneand then we'll go get the port.
I go ahead and get my lab work.
(06:56):
It was real quick, it was justlike one or two tests.
And then I'm sitting there inthe surgery prep and they're
going over everything, whatthey're going to do.
They shaved me down.
We're all ready.
I'm minutes away from gettingrolled in there.
I'm excited.
My wife's already gone off togo get something to eat.
And then all of a sudden theycome back and they say we just
(07:18):
got your blood work back.
Your white blood cell count isup high.
We're not going to be able todo the port today.
And I was just like you'rekidding me.
And so they sent me home and Iwas just like frustrated as all
get out.
As you can imagine, I've beenpushing on this thing for a
couple of months now and we'refinally right there and so
(07:42):
waiting, going back and forthwith the doctor's assistant, and
they're like well, I told himwhat happened and I said you
know, there's a, it's a, it's alittle bit of weeping.
And she says well, you know,your blood cell or your white
blood cell count is generallygoing to be elevated, just
simply because you have cancer.
That's a, that's a normal thingto happen.
And I said but I know this isprobably a part of it.
(08:03):
And so they put me on anantibiotic.
I got on it yesterday afternoon.
I'm taking it every six hours.
I'm clockwork.
As soon as I got theprescription, I ran down, got it
and today the weeping hasstopped and they got me set,
scheduled, to go back tomorrow.
So I'm set to get the port putin tomorrow.
(08:27):
I'm on the antibiotics, so I'mconfident they're going to go
forward with it, and Monday I'mset to have my first round of
chemo.
Fantastic.
So it's been a bumpy road.
But you know, as we're talkingabout information and science
(08:47):
and pioneers you had saidsomething about, you know,
science is advanced one funeralat a time, and that's Max Planck
.
Yeah, and historically,scientists have experimented on
themselves before they've, youknow.
I mean, they're experimentingon everything, but you know,
generally the more dangerousstuff that they test on
(09:09):
themselves and many, manyscientists has died in the in
the quest for knowledge.
And that certainly is nevergoing to be my, my ambition.
But when it comes down tothings, you sometimes you think
something safe and you think youknow my body, I know my body, I
think I know what's going tohappen, but we don't realize
(09:30):
sometimes how delicate and your,your body can be and sometimes
just a little imbalance, goingone side or another, can set off
a chain of events that youreally can't stop easily.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Well, you've had a few bumps, but it seems that
your trajectory is good.
You've got a good set ofdoctors.
Hopefully the port will go intomorrow.
If you have to wait anothercouple of days, no biggie, but I
(10:08):
think it'll go in tomorrow.
Yeah, I feel good about it.
I think all is good Joe.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, I feel good.
You know, the hardest thing isnot having a target that I can
focus on.
You know that keeps gettingpushed out, pushed out.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Well, your focus is to get chemo right, and it's a
big event.
Chemo is not trivial.
They want you to be in goodshape for it, right.
They want you to have a port.
Um, they're worried about thehigh blood, high white cell
count, so they want to get youdown to baseline.
(10:52):
It's all normal.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I feel like they're doing a good job.
I feel you know, yeah, you'redoing a great job.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Your attitude is really really good.
The attitude is the mostimportant thing in cancer for
getting better.
More than the medicine, morethan anything, the attitude is
the most important.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
That's the only thing I control, so I'm certainly not
going to let that one slipthrough me.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
No no, you'll be okay .
You let me know tomorrow aboutthe port.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Oh, I will for sure.
You're on a very short list ofpeople I share information with.
Thank you, joe.
You know it's important.
I think we're good.
Yeah, I feel that too.
I feel like this time we'rethrough it.
I was a little like underneathmy breath.
I was thinking to myself I hopethis isn't gonna mess this up
(11:50):
thinking, you know, somewhere inmy in my heart I'm like I I
might have overdone it and uh,you know, sure enough, I was
right a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And it's okay.
It's okay, no big deal.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Well, the doctor team is really great.
They're very communicative,they're very supportive.
They've been very quick torespond.
I can send a message to any ofthe team and they get back with
me within a few hours.
It's been really.
This UCI Medical Center teamhas been really incredible.
(12:26):
Well, I'm really glad to hearthat.
Yeah, I couldn't be morepleased, and previously the
negative experience I had withsome of these doctors was, you
know, putting me in a kind of adefensive spot.
But these guys have just beenreally.
They really seem like they havemy interest in mind, not just
pushing their agenda.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, it's a really good medical school there.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Cutting edge so, yeah , I feel I feel good about it,
so I I'm gonna keep pushingforward and, uh, tomorrow, uh,
at one o'clock, I should begoing under the knife.
So let's, uh, let's see a goodthing going on there.
They're gonna put it on yourwrist, no, no, right on my
(13:14):
shoulder.
Okay, are they?
gonna give you a generalanesthetic or a local uh, it's
gonna be be local, but they'regiving me an IV drip.
They've got some littlecocktail they have planned.
They said they're going to hita big good with the local and
then they're going to give mesome kind of intravenous pain
stuff and anti-anxiety stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I just said Okay, that's great, and I can see why
they want you to be in goodcondition to do that.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's not a trivial thing, right, right, yeah.
They say they're putting theport kind of near my heart and
then it's got this little pouchthat ends up being right
underneath the skin and thenwhen they go to hit me with the
chemo, they just pinch it andput the thing right in there and
instead of, you know, tearingmy veins up, up every time, it
(14:03):
just goes right into this littlebladder.
Yeah, so I'm good, very pleasedabout that.
The way I understand, thissounds like a state-of-the-art
port too.
Yeah, yeah, it looked like itwas.
Um, you know, they, they laidout how it was going to be.
It was about a week, about aweek recovery before I can lift
things up again, and you know,I'll walk right out of there.
(14:25):
Right out of there.
I just can't shower for 24hours, but after that it's no
problem.
Don't lift anything heavy for aweek and you'll be good to go.
Sounds good, joe, I never wouldthink that I'd be excited to
put a poison cocktail in my body, but I tell you what I'm
looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, it's going to help you.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
You might have to grit your teeth a bit sometimes,
but it's going to help.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
No, I agree and I'm as prepared as I can be.
I'm now over almost threemonths into this low methionine
diet and I have not wavered.
I haven't touched any meat ordairy or anything.
I've been on a real lowmethionine diet.
I've taken the methionine aids.
I'm even upping the methionineaids to three times a day now as
(15:17):
I'm getting closer to the chemo.
I just want to make everythingon.
I'll be fasting two days before, one day after, to maximize
everything, All the right things.
I feel like it's going to be asgood.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You know it's not going to be a miracle, the
thing's not going to go away ina day, no, and there might even
be a lag phase before it startsto shrink, but we're going to be
good.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
But it will begin.
And you know the doctor saidthat this cocktail is usually
very quickly responsive and shehas the highest hopes for that.
So I said, well, we're allsystems go.
So I'm looking forward to thatGood, good show.
You know, one of the thingsthat kind of gets me.
(16:04):
You know it's a crazy ridebecause you know sleep is so
important and this thing has gotme where I'm having a difficult
time sleeping a lot, justsimply because of where it's at
and trying to find a comfortableposition and all that and you
know it gets at you, sometimeswears at you.
And I always have people.
(16:25):
You know I have a wonderfulsupport team, not just the group
on Sunday, but I have wonderfulpeople surrounding me.
I'm surrounded with a lot oflove and care and also a lot of
people who, you know, have theirown thoughts about medicine and
their own thoughts about cancerand their own thoughts about
things.
And you know, I know you hearthis all the time and I'm sure
(16:48):
everybody goes through it.
But in your best interest,people are constantly or my best
interest, people are constantlygiving me advice or tips or
things that they've heard andit's really wild, as you know, I
tell them over and over again Isays listen, I am on this.
I am the world's expert on mycancer right now.
(17:11):
There isn't anybody who knowsmore about my cancer than I do
right now.
And I am doing everything, thatI can do everything and I
guarantee you, if it's good, I'mdoing it and I appreciate do
Everything.
And I guarantee you, if it'sgood, I'm doing it and I
appreciate everybody's input.
But you know, trust me, I'veeither seen it, done it or
chosen not to.
And it's wild how you knowpeople, they receive information
(17:37):
from all these sources.
You know they look on theinternet.
Somebody puts out a video thetruth about chemotherapy, the
truth about this, the truthabout that, and it's a bunch of
crap.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
If you were, on our Zoom call a few weeks ago, or
maybe a little longer ago, drExame Emil said there's levels
of evidence, right, it's somevideo that has no basis whatever
(18:11):
On the one hand, or I heardthis or I heard that on the
other hand, and then you get,for example, on the other hand,
and then you get, for example,on the other extreme, a phase
three clinical trial of a couplethousand people.
That's huge level of evidence,right, these people?
(18:32):
Oh, I heard the video.
My friend told me this orchemos know this.
No good, joe.
Uh, chemotherapy has been givento cancer patients since the
late 40s, believe it or not.
One of the first patients wasBabe Ruth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
And he had an initial response.
It was so primitive back then.
Millions of people have beenhelped by chemotherapy, millions
and millions and millions formore than 75 years.
So somebody just says chemo isno good, this has no meaning,
and just take it for that.
(19:15):
Levels of evidence.
You tell me something, okay.
Can you tell me about aclinical trial?
Can you tell me about animalstudies?
Can you?
What scientific publicationscan you tell me about?
You know there's too much ofthis crap going on, not only
about chemo, about a lot ofother things.
(19:36):
People talking without anyfactual basis of what they're
talking about.
People talking without anyfactual basis of what they're
talking about, and you know thatstuff deserves to go in one ear
and out the other.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Well, and the other side of it is is I have been
touting that book to a lot ofpeople and I've got some people
to buy it and some people thatare reading it, and I think a
lot of it is just simpleignorance.
People believe that they're onthe right path, they believe in
something they you know, they'veseen evidence of something.
This is not religion, Joe.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's science.
Oh, I know Exactly what Ibelieve in.
I believe in data, right.
So you know.
Just, you'll see that many ofthe patients on the Zoom have
had a similar experience.
Sure, sometimes the spouse hasbeen so against what they're
(20:31):
doing.
On and on and on People sayingthings that have no basis and
then a lot of them talking aboutconspiracy theories.
If they read Kuhn they'dunderstand why things take so
long to change.
(20:52):
And it's not about conspiracytheory, it's about how science
progresses and Kuhn makes thatvery clear.
So I hope a lot of people readKuhn.
(21:14):
But remember, chemotherapy hasbeen around for 75, more than 75
years.
Has been around for 75, morethan 75 years.
All those children who wouldautomatically die with the
childhood cancers probably 80%,90% live now.
Why?
Chemo?
Head and neck cancer, as youhave, is one of the most chemo
(21:37):
responsive.
Some of the cancers just don'tmake it with chemo alone, like
pancreatic cancer, and that'swhy we're trying to improve it
with methionine A's, lowmethionine diet, ivermectin.
We're trying to improve what'sout there, not replace it with
no basis.
Trying to improve it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So, as we're talking about paradigms and the changing
of paradigms, you know we'vegone through this, you know it's
really not been that long.
It's only been a few hundredyears really, if you get down to
it, a few thousand years atmost, you know science as we
(22:20):
know it really started maybe inthe 1600s with Galileo or those
guys, or with Copernicus.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Science is pretty new and so it's still a young
endeavor and it takes I mean,people had the sun going around
the earth for hundreds of years,exactly Hundreds of years to
(22:58):
shift the paradigm that theearth goes around the sun, and
in cancer the main paradigm isthe Warburg effect.
Oh, the cancers are alladdicted to glucose, right, and
so much is built around that.
And for the paradigm to changethat cancers are really much
more addicted to methionine,even though there's tons of data
(23:20):
that show it is, kuhn explainswhy it's hard to get that
paradigm shift.
It's like moving a mountain.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Exactly.
Well, there's certain stressorsthat can cause change, but a
lot of times it's when there's amassive anomaly that shows up
and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Once in a while.
That's not going to be the casewith cancer.
No, once in a while that's notgoing to be the case with cancer
.
Max Planck's adage aboutscience progresses one funeral
at a time.
That fits in right.
With Kuhn, right, the paradigmleader leaves the scene.
That makes room for the nextrevolution, right, which results
(24:02):
in the next paradigm.
We're in the middle of thatright now.
We're in a revolution that'sshowing methionine is a very
important part of cancer and wehave to attack it.
We're in the middle of arevolution right now.
We haven't reached where it'sthe dominant paradigm.
It probably won't happen in mylifetime, but it's okay.
(24:25):
One patient at a time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
No, I agree and I think that, as we're.
Every time that there'sevidence gathered, every time
another one of these papers getspublished, every time another
physician opens their eyes andentertains the notion, I think
it just it does it.
It it's a very slow movingwheel, but I think it's, I think
it's moving.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It's definitely, definitely moving and I'm
getting so many inquiries frompatients all over the world oh
good, all over the world.
So, as I've said many times,the big force now in moving that
wheel, getting to thismethionine paradigm to be the
(25:12):
dominant one, it's the patients,and eventually they're going to
win.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And you know you've said something a couple of times
in these meetings and foranybody who's listening, there's
a meeting at four o'clock onSunday, pacific time.
Every Sunday it goes on for acouple of hours.
If you're listening to this andyou either have had cancer,
have cancer or know somebody whohas, I encourage you to
participate in this meeting.
We share the link.
(25:39):
If you're, it's, everybody canattend.
You can show up for a minute anhour.
The whole time you can speak orlisten whatever you want.
It's a beautiful group, veryeducated people sharing their
experiences.
Usually there's four or fivephysicians on.
At least Many of them aredealing with their own cancers.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
All the physicians on are dealing with their own
cancer cancers.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
All the physicians on are dealing with their own
cancer.
It's just one of the mostpowerful groups I've ever met,
simply because everybody'ssharing their truths as they're
experiencing them.
And I think the most importantthing people need to remember
about cancer is we don't knowanything about cancer as a whole
because every cancer is unique.
We don't know anything aboutcancer as a whole because every
(26:27):
cancer is unique and we canlearn things about how things
happen, mechanisms and switchesand types of cancers and things
that they do, but the one thingcancer does so quickly and
easily is it changes, and sowe'll never probably know it as
well as we would want to,because it's never going to be
the same for very long.
And I think that thatunderstanding that we're
(26:49):
starting to gather with justthese general rules, like
methionine, addiction, likethese different things that
we're learning, I think, nomatter what cancer adapts to,
these are going to be tools thatwe'll be able to use.
What's your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So when people come along and they have these
opinions about cancer as a bigword a big word, you know
there's only, I think, a handfulof things that we can even
categorize all cancers as really.
I mean, there's just so fewthings that they all share in
common other than you know, theywant to live and they want to
(27:37):
grow.
Short of that, they want tospread.
They want to spread.
Yeah, that's it Just like everyliving thing, right?
They want to spread.
They want to spread.
Yeah, that's it Just like everyliving thing, right?
Yep, so you know the geneticmakeup.
(27:58):
You know I have Dr Castroworking on my biopsy, getting
genetic work on, so I'm hopingthat we're going to uncover some
tools with that.
But there's not any one silverbullet in all of this.
It's always going to be alayered solution and it's always
going to be a lifelong solution.
This is another thing peopleneed to remember.
In my best case scenario, I gointo full remission, I have zero
(28:19):
tumor markers and I get to livethe rest of my life knowing
that if I went back to doingwhat I was doing before, it will
probably come back, and if Ican keep myself in a good one
second for me, joe, I'm sorry,hang on just one second.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Oh, no problem, no problem one second.
Yeah, no worries I'm on joe'szoom.
I'll call you back in a fewminutes.
Thank you, bye.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Sorry, joe that was jihiro.
Oh, okay, no worries, noworries.
And then for everybody who, whoyou know, doesn't know much
about dr hoffman, he's one ofthe busiest guys I've known and
he deals with people all overthe world and you know, we're
just really blessed that youspend your time with us having
these conversations and you know, I really just wanted to really
(29:12):
focus on that sort of tidbitthat, as cutting edge as we are
and the procedures andtechnologies that are developing
the imaging procedures andtechnologies that are developing
the imaging um, we're still sofar away from really knowing the
things that we wish we knew andand for there being um.
You know, these blanket answers, these blanket cures, um are
(29:36):
just no blanket answers arecured exactly, but we know more
than we used to.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
We've learned so much from all our and we think we
have a good chance with eachpatient to improve their chance
of a good outcome what yoursituation is if you find
(30:06):
yourself diagnosed with canceror a loved one.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
You need to spend the rest of your time learning and
meeting people who are willingto share information, and openly
.
You know, and reading books isgreat, but these personal
experiences, people that aredealing with it one-on-one-
critical, dealing with itone-on-one critical.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, I think the what one of the main things
we've learned on our zoom groupyou've got to be in charge of
yourself, absolutely.
Oh, my doctor didn't tell methis, didn't tell me that.
Okay, go learn, go study 12hours a day.
Your life depends on it.
We can't depend on somebodythat's going to do it for us.
The doc, he, she can offer us alot, but only we can take full
(30:55):
responsibility for ourself andget on PubMed and learn and
learn and learn.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yes, 100%.
That is the best advice anybodycould get, and we live in a
world where we have access tothe latest science at our
fingertips.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
We've got 40 million papers on PubMed.
Yes, it is.
The PubMed basically containsthe current knowledge of science
.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
It's there the current knowledge of science.
It's there.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yes, so people with cancer have to study like crazy
to learn as much as they can, tohelp themselves as much as they
can.
Like you, you went in and hadsuch an intelligent conversation
with the doctor and she agreedwith what you wanted, because
you came to her with facts andshe respects my opinion.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
through this and now we communicate on a different
level and it changes that littleparadigm.
When you go to a doctor andyou're submissive or just don't
have much to say.
They were going to give youwhat they think that you need.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But when you get your three minutes and the next
patient comes in.
But if you go in there andyou're prepared and you're
asking a lot of importantquestions, the doc's not going
to kick you out of that room sofast.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Not at all, and you know they want you to do well,
they want you to recover.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You wouldn't be a doctor if you didn't want your
patient to do well, exactly sothat's for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So I think that's another piece of it.
When a patient is activelyworking on their own behalf, I
think it shows the doctor theirwillingness to do what it takes.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And so the doc says I'm going to do extra for you
because you're going out of yourway to do extra for yourself.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Exactly A hundred percent.
I'm running a little bit low onjuice, and that's okay.
We're running a little bit outof time, so we're going to call
it a day.
I appreciate you being heretoday.
We had a great discussion Everytime.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
And let me know tomorrow about the port.
I will.
I expect it to be in.
If you gotta wait a couple moredays, it's okay, but we're
hoping to get it in tomorrow.
But if not, we'll get it in onmonday or tuesday, you bet all
right.
Well, we'll see you on sunday,for sure I'll call you and see
you next thursday and see anyother time in between,
(33:23):
absolutely All right.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Thank you for joining the.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Healthy Living Podcast.
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Thank you for having me.
You bet.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.