June 29, 2025 • 26 mins
Plastic is changing fish biology—and possibly human biology too. Could our everyday products be contributing to environmental and health shifts we're only beginning to understand?
Kate Assaraf, founder of Dip Sustainable Hair Care, joins us to share her remarkable journey from a beauty industry insider to a sustainability pioneer. Her transformation began with a startling discovery while reading about the impact of plastic pollution on fish in the Potomac River. This revelation led her to question everything about our plastic-saturated world and ultimately inspired her to create high-performance, plastic-free hair care products.
We delve into the world of refilleries—stores where you can refill your containers instead of purchasing new packaging—and explore how these community hubs are making sustainability accessible to everyone. Kate challenges our black-and-white thinking about ingredients, explaining why "natural" isn't always better and how thoughtful synthetic formulations sometimes offer safer, more sustainable options. Her approach prioritizes performance first, believing that truly sustainable products must work exceptionally well to create lasting change.
What makes this conversation special is Kate's refreshing honesty about sustainability. Rather than making empty promises or using eco-buzzwords, she's built a business model around helping people buy less, not more—her conditioner bars last six months to two years for most users. We explore how small, consistent changes create meaningful impact and why the wellness journey encompasses both personal and planetary health.
Whether you're a sustainability expert or just beginning to think about reducing your environmental footprint, this episode offers practical wisdom and unexpected insights about making choices that benefit your health and our shared planet. Ready to rethink your relationship with everyday products? Listen now and discover how small shifts in your routine can contribute to a healthier world.
Find Dip at dipready.com or @dip on Instagram and explore refilleries in your area to start your own plastic-reduction journey today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
Her name is Kate Aseroff andshe's the founder and CEO of Dip
, sustainable Health Hair Care,a clean beauty brand built on
the belief that sustainability,transparency and integrity
(00:25):
aren't just buzzwords, they'renon-negotiable.
And she's got a great story.
And you know, just remember,this is a podcast about healthy
living mind, body and spirit,and so hair care, any skin care,
all of these sort of conceptsare a big part of that.
And, kate, welcome to the show.
(00:47):
I'm glad to have you here.
I'd love to hear about yourstory.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for having me here.
It's my pleasure.
So tell me a little bit aboutyourself and how you got into
this world of hair care.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I have been in the beauty industry for almost two
decades.
I've done every bit, fromformulation to marketing to
sales.
And you know, around 10 yearsago, when I was pregnant with my
first son, I read this book.
It was called Boys Adrift andit was about how to raise a son
to be a productive member ofsociety.
(01:22):
It was like all the pitfallsthat are happening in modern
life, and one of them was, likeyou know, video games.
One of them was like men,fathers and sons don't hunt a
lot together anymore.
And then one of the things inthe book that really just, it
wasn't even a big part of thebook, it was just a little tiny
slice that stuck with me foreverwas about plastics, and so, if
(01:43):
you can imagine, in 2014, I wasreading about how the author was
talking about how runoffs froma plastic factory in the Potomac
River was changing the biologyof male fish and allowing them
to lay eggs, and so that wassomething that, for me, that was
so, so mind blowing to me.
(02:04):
My mom had a PhD inanthropology and she'd always
talk to me about evolution.
It's a slow process, and herewe have, you know, this very
fast change in aquatic life, andnow we're discovering, 10 years
later, the impacts that plasticis having on human health.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And even without getting political or anything
like that, I mean, if you lookat sociology and society and how
people are today versus 20, 30,50 years ago, and this whole
gender fluidity thing, which Idon't even have an opinion about
(02:44):
, but it didn't exist when I wasa kid, or it was in such a
small amount that whatever wasaffecting it.
And I don't know if plastic hasanything to do with it, but it
might be worth considering.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It's worth considering.
I don't know either, but theauthor seemed to kind of have a
nod to that because of what washappening.
Was the plastic bottled water?
You know, heyday?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So I was chugging, chugging, chugging.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And then I came to this chapter in this book and
then I was like, oh, maybe notsuch a good idea.
And you know that that put meon a different course.
Suddenly, you, when you seethat plastic is everywhere and
you know how beauty is packagedin plastic, water in plastic,
and then you look at food inplastic and medical equipment in
(03:49):
plastic, it's just, it's aflooded it's.
You can't get away from it and Idon't expect anyone to get away
from it, but what I tried to dofor myself and my family was to
find, you know, substitutes forum items that I regularly
purchased in plastic, and inthat mission I discovered
something called a refillery.
I think they've been aroundmaybe five, six years, and so a
(04:14):
refillery is basically, foranyone that doesn't know, you
bring, like your jug ofdetergent and then you bring it
to a place and then fill it.
Instead of buying a new jug,you fill it at the store with
only what you need to buy or youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I have actually not heard of that and I am like on
top of so many things, so Icertainly need to explore that.
I think that's a fantastic idea.
I produce natural products andI've offered that sort of a
service myself, but on a realsmall scale.
Where would you find thesethings?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
They're in every state.
Actually, if you go to whereI'm so passionate about people
getting into refilleries that Isell my hair care in almost all
of the refilleries around thecountry because I want people to
go into a refillery, Maybethey're going to buy dip, which
is what I sell, but then theycan just by accident be exposed
to all the other plastic-freeoptions that are out there.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm going to explore this and blow it up.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
My gosh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
We're about health, right, but that's also planet
health, it's everything health,and it's all connected.
Health, it's everything health,and it's all connected.
And we live in such adisposable world that is such a
big part of the problem in somany ways that, if we can just
think about you know, in oldentimes they built things out of
clay and metal and glass andthings that you just reused over
(05:43):
and over and over again, andnowadays everything's one and
done and the landfills fill.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's everywhere, and so somerefilleries have just, you know,
body care essentials and youknow, plastic-free swaps Like
you can.
You know you don't never haveto buy saran wrap again.
They have solutions for thatthat are plastic-free and like
zip that stuff.
But you know there are alsomany refilleries that carry food
too.
So if you want to go and refillyour pasta or refill, like you
(06:14):
know, any grains or anythingthat you buy regularly, they're
there for you as well, and Ithink I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I'm gonna go explore.
Hopefully there's one close tome in Southern California
because I'm oh man, there's somany over there.
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You're a good man, you're going to hear about it
for sure, awesome.
So yeah, that's, I mean likethat's a big, a big piece of.
So you know, I read this book.
It changed my life.
I felt like the world suddenlylooked.
I don't want to say toxic Causethat's not like a a right way
to say it is, but it's also Idon't want to.
If you say toxic too much, itstarts to lose its meaning.
(06:52):
I agree.
And then it starts to be, itstarts to like bring it out to
life too, yeah.
Yeah, and so so you know, Inever say like completely
plastic free your life, but likeplastic, just be plastic
conscious, not don't be plasticblind things.
So yeah, and I think you know,a big part of sustainability now
(07:13):
is there.
We had a big blip insustainability and I think in
2020, 2021, during the pandemic,and sustainability became such
a buzzword itself that it lostits meaning.
exactly, people are so now yeahyeah, everyone's so fed up
because everything's calleditself sustainable.
Everyone big companies madesustainability uh promises and
(07:34):
then they quietly likebacktracked on all these, all
these.
Actually, yeah, it's a lot ofwork like I, you know I love my
company and that it's what Ithink sustainability should be,
but that it's not like peopleare that excited to start a
company where the goal is to getpeople to buy less stuff less
often.
(07:55):
Ignored directors wouldn't behappy about it Because even
though I purposely made aconditioner bar so it lasts most
people around six months to twoyears, depending on the length
of hair.
People are like how are yousustaining a business that way?
And I was like I made sure itwas so good that once someone
(08:17):
bought it they told all of theirfriends.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I totally agree with that business model.
I make natural products as welland I make them very
concentrated and very pure andthey come in little containers
and they last forever.
And people are like, why don'tyou make it in the big bottle?
I'm like, well, it would go badbefore it would be finished and
it's all natural, so why wouldI do that?
You know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, exactly, it's a very strange thing to explain
to someone that you want peopleto buy less, but the people that
get it get it and theyappreciate it, and I think
that's like a really importantthing.
It's like I don't need to sellmy dip bars to everybody, I just
need to sell them to the peoplethat really value that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Get it.
Yeah, slowly but surely thatsort of collective consciousness
is improving.
Slowly but surely that sort ofcollective consciousness is
improving.
People are sifting through allthe information and all the
things and finding things thatwork and telling people about
them.
I think it's starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think so too, and I don't need it to be so fast.
Do you know what I mean?
Because once a shift happenstoo fast, immediately it kind of
kind of fall, yeah, yeah it canfall off and so, and so I think
this is a true paradigm changeI think, yeah, I think it's.
it's one of those things thatlike requires a lot of people to
(09:41):
just slowly, you know, creepinto the movement, make a couple
changes at a time and thenstart to like learn with these
new changes.
Like, for something that isprobably relatable to everyone
is everyone in America buyspaper towels like crazy.
They're expensive and they'rewasteful and you know you can
(10:02):
just use reusable paper towels,which is like a fancy way to
call it, let's say, rag.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right, I was going to say we used to have wash rags
and dish rags as just a stapleand you know, you'd have maybe
paper napkins, but even thenthey had cloth napkins as well.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah.
And so now you know, I thinkI'm probably six years into just
not buying paper towels.
I've probably had one pack.
That's lasted, it's still.
You know, it's still going,because I only use it in the
rare instances I host people andthey want bacon.
There you go, that's a papertowel.
Yeah, the paper towel is goodfor that, or French fries, yeah
(10:39):
it's the hero for that onespecific thing, but every other
instance that I would use apaper towel like the rag
completes that mission.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Old t-shirts at all.
It's works great, those things.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah.
So I think I think this shiftis so important and part of part
of what I tried to create.
I tried to create a hair carebrand that was so good that I
didn't need to mention theplastic free part of it in the
marketing and, um, you know,part of that was really really
focusing on performance, youknow, and not putting any of the
(11:12):
messaging that, hey, this isplastic free, like most of the
messaging is actually like hey,this is sold in salons.
It's not just saying it's salongrade, which is not a regulated
term, like right on shelves likethis is in almost all the
refill stores because they tryevery version of a shampoo and
conditioner bar.
And this is in almost all therefill stores because they try
every version of a shampoo andconditioner bar and this is the
one that they choose to sellbecause it is so good.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It works.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, and that, basically, is like what
motivates me and it gets me.
It gets me so excited to seesomeone who's never been in a
refill store, never discoveredit, go to our store locator and
suddenly find one by them, or tofind a salon near them that is
starting to shift their chemicaluse, you know, because they're
(11:55):
they're discovering thathairstylists are are getting
like ill after chronic illness.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Anything about hair, yeah, especially things like
coloring and totally all of thatis so friggin toxic.
Like people have no idea whatthey're putting on their skin,
that's their brain, which Idon't know.
If you know anything about skin, it's pretty, pretty permeable.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, and the long term exposure of someone
standing over these chemicalsand breathing them.
They're discovering it's likeit's.
It's become a real issue.
So so if you look at dip andyou on the store locator and you
find a salon that you didn'tknow existed but seems to
prioritize plastic free productsor other, you know dip lives in
a world with other, on a shelfwith, like other eco-friendly or
(12:43):
sustainable products Like I'mhappy if you don't choose this
one and you choose another one.
That's just better for you.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, you came from the beauty industry and that's a
pretty broad spectrum ofproducts.
You know from skincare,anti-aging, you know all sorts
of serums and everything.
What caused you to go to thehair side of things.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I secretly have always loved hair.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Nice hair.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I got to tell you you can't see it from the podcast,
but it's um, you know when I,when I, you know, a lot of times
when I meet people, I noticethe hair before the smile I
noticed, you know, like I, justI, I've loved, yeah, I've just
loved hair my whole life andI've had all different kinds of
hair I've had.
Yeah, I've just loved hair mywhole life and I've had all
different kinds of hair I've had.
(13:31):
I've had a purple beehive for amoment in New York I had.
I've had black hair, superblonde hair.
I've had even box braids.
I've had literally every kindof hair you could think of.
I've had it made silver foreditorial and I just, I, just I
think there's something funnyabout hair to me, like it's so
emotional, like you could have.
(13:53):
You could have a white t-shirtand jeans on every day and
amazing hair and still feel likea million bucks.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Absolutely.
I agree.
I used to have real long hair.
I'm going through chemotherapyright now, so I don't have any
hair right now, but that'semotional.
It's way emotional.
Oh yeah, no, I had for most ofmy life.
I had hair down the middle ofmy back and loved it and uh, so
it'll be back.
But I know, I know where you'recoming from yeah, I, I mean
(14:19):
that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
That's another.
Another thing is we offerfragrance free products because
there are a lot ofimmunocompromised people going
through chemotherapy and youknow any kind of extra, anything
, anything, yeah products iseverything it is.
It's not that it's risky, it'sjust that it's not um ended
(14:40):
right.
So we I have probably eightdifferent SKUs that have no
scent at all and and a lot ofpeople that are going through uh
, chemo, ivf I don't know anykind of uh like they have.
Some people have thyroid issuesor any of these, like I tell
them to do many things thatcould be affected.
(15:01):
Absolutely, yeah, like just staywith the fragrance free and you
know something that I just wantto talk about fragrance.
I suspect you have thoughts onit being in the industry.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I'm an essential oil guy.
But you know there's limits towhat essential oils can do and
how long they last, and all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Totally, and you know , sometimes something's
something I learned like thedark side of essential oils is
sometimes they're cold pressedwith pesticides on the plant.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Oh, absolutely, you never know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You have no idea what's actually going on your
skin, or you know.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It's a broad brush and, just like everything else
finding good sources, getting toknow suppliers I mean it's a
lot of work to put out a goodproduct.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, I know, and so you know.
A non-traditional choice that Imade was using synthetic really
like the gold standard ofsynthetic fragrance for our bars
, mostly because I know thatthere are risks with essential
oils and not knowing thesuppliers.
Of course, if you're buyinglittle bits at a time from a
small farm, you can trust.
(16:06):
That's one thing.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But if you're buying something they generally don't
produce the volume that youwould bits at a time from a
small farm you can trust.
That's one thing, but buyingsomething they generally don't
produce the volume that youwould need at a price Right.
This is an important thing, Ithink, for people to hear and I
talk about this a lot, andespecially with my cancer
journey and things like that.
People have this notion aboutnatural and health and safety,
(16:33):
natural and health and safety.
And they also have a notionabout synthetic or chemical and
health and safety.
And the truth is everything's adouble-edged sword, totally
thing.
And and just because it grewout of the ground doesn't mean
it's not going to kill you.
And just because it wassynthesized from a mineral or
some other compound that comesout of the earth, which is what
all chemicals are, doesn't meanit's bad for you.
(16:53):
And there are plenty ofminerals and chemicals that are
inert or basically inert, andand there you can it's swimming
them and they're not going tohurt you.
And and so these broad brushesthat so many of us that are
trying to be healthy live by,you come to find out when you
start doing real research thatyou're just fooling yourself in
(17:16):
so many ways, so I canappreciate where you're coming
from going after something safeand good quality thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That it's it's a, it's a very, it's a very touchy
subject.
Fragrance and essential oilsare also like you know.
There's people that go to thechurch of essential oils and
you're like there's there's someessential oils are amazing and
it depends on where they comefrom.
Some are amazing in one respect, but then you know know, they
(17:43):
create so much biomass to create, to to make them, or the places
where that that plant is growndoesn't have great labor
practices.
So people are like you know,you know not, they're not
treated well that are bringingthat oil to you and sometimes
the oil is at such a lowpercentage that you're not
getting the benefits that youthought you were getting right,
(18:05):
right.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, oil labeling is horrible in this industry and
people, yeah, call it pure andthen you come to find out it's.
You know, cut 80 with a carrierand you don't even know what
that is so I agree and I youknow, this show is all about
people learning for themselveshow to solve their problems, and
I think getting a broad base ofinformation is important and,
(18:29):
you know, taking the care tosource your ingredients.
That's the part that matters.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Absolutely and really really understanding the nuance
between one supplier andanother of the same ingredient.
It could be totally different,and so it's so nice to talk to
someone that understands that,because so often, sometimes, I'm
talking to someone that justhears fragrance bad, or
essential oils good, and that'sit yeah.
(18:54):
And I'm like, yeah, somefragrance is horrible and you
shouldn't go anywhere near it.
You shouldn't plug it into yourwalls and breathe it Like it's
all about exposure and some ithas, you know, is coming from
like a scientist, a phd chemist,who really knows what they're
doing and understands regulatorylimitations and so it's.
(19:18):
It's wild out there I, Itotally agree.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
but you know, again and again, even with things like
labeling, people will stickanything on their label and
they'll say this and that andthat doesn't make it so.
So really doing that researchis is really where the only
place you're going to findanswers and you know
manufacturers that take thatcare.
That's one of the reasons thatI would feature you know a
(19:43):
manufacturer of a product on ahealth show is because it
matters.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, and I want to talk about health and
refilleries real quick.
Yeah, I love so.
I know many of our stores.
We sold in a few hundred storesaround the country just just
for refilleries and I know manyof these, these people that have
opened these stores on you know.
I know them personally becausepeople that have opened these
stores I know them personallybecause I spend a lot of time
(20:09):
learning about them andinvesting in them as
entrepreneurs.
Also, it's a partnership whenone of them sells dip, because
we're doing it together.
Mostly, what I love about thismovement is that these people
are so, so in tune with whatshould and shouldn't go on their
shelves, health wise.
(20:31):
Like they really make sure thatthe ingredients of everything
they put on their shelves.
Like they do all the homeworkfor you, so you don't have to go
in there and and like panicabout what's on the shelves.
Like some people go into aTarget or Walmart and they like
are, you know, taking the appsand scanning all of them, but
(20:53):
the refilleries those owners areso passionate about ingredients
and your health that they doall of the homework for you, and
I think that that's somethingthat we should celebrate.
And, like you know, instead ofclicking add to cart, like get
up, get in your car, go to theirstore and really experience it.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
I'm excited.
I can't wait to visit one andget to know these people.
And again, this is I don't knowhow.
I never even stumbled upon thisin my life.
I mean, I've been sustainablepermaculture farmer for 40 years
.
Oh my God, what did you grow?
Oh, I still.
I have a.
I have a nonprofit calledGardens of Hope and we offer
(21:34):
what we call therapeutichorticulture and education.
So I've got a little two and ahalf acre botanical garden and a
small farm and we grow seasonalvegetables, we grow herbs and
flowers and people participatein the process.
So it's a healing garden by notonly the process of growing it
(21:55):
but the things that we grow andharvest that's so cool, I bet I
bet for the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Getting in that garden is probably magical and
my own healing journey.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's been instrumental.
And we have, you know, mentalhealth groups that come over,
special needs groups come overand everybody that touches the
ground benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's amazing and it's a nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, 501 c, three gardens of hope.
You bet I'll donate.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I'll donate when we get off the.
I think that's a really, reallyworthy cause and I think it's
really so exciting that thatexists.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I wish it existed for me.
You as a sponsor, yeah,absolutely, we'll help you.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, that's like you know.
I went through like a toughtime at one point and what I
really needed to do I didn'tknow about the parasympathetic
nervous system.
Like didn't know, this wassomething that hadn't come in
into my brain before we talkedabout it and now just like
refilleries yeah, like I didn'tcame in, I had no idea that that
(22:56):
.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
You know, the things that were I needed to heal were
like a gratitude journal goingoutside in a hammock and you
know, among the flowers and justhear, hear the sounds of the
birds.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, like not listening to podcasts or music,
when I'm walking in the woodsand noticing like the light come
through the trees, like that.
That was something I didn'tknow was part of the medicine I
needed and um and it, it totallyblew my mind that there was
this whole thing that we neverlearned in health class.
That was vital and crucial toyour well-being.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Absolutely, absolutely Well.
We're all about it and we lovesharing it, and if you're ever
in Southern California, I'd loveto show you around.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, absolutely, I'd love to come see the farm,
especially Exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Well, listen, we're getting close to that bewitching
hour.
This has been exciting hearingabout your story, your products
and this is where I give you acouple of minutes to give your
final thoughts and elevatorpitch and how everybody can get
ahold of you.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Sure, hey.
So my name is Kate Assaraf.
I own Dip.
It is very serious hair carefor not so serious people, and
what it is is it's plastic free,sold in small stores and salons
and surf shops around thecountry, and it actually works.
So you don't have to worry.
We don't hire influencers andwe don't pay people to pretend
that they bought it like theonly hype you ever hear from
(24:17):
actual customers, and you canfind us at dipalreadycom and
also at at dip on Instagram andTikTok.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Fantastic.
Well, kate, it's been anabsolute pleasure to speak with
you.
I wasn't sure how thisconversation would go, because I
just didn't have much thoughtabout it, but I'm really glad to
have met you and I look forwardto furthering our conversation
as we go.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Me too.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Wonderful.
This has been another episodeof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine.
I thank you for your supportand we will see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
Her name is Kate Aseroff andshe's the founder and CEO of Dip
, sustainable Health Hair Care,a clean beauty brand built on
the belief that sustainability,transparency and integrity
(00:25):
aren't just buzzwords, they'renon-negotiable.
And she's got a great story.
And you know, just remember,this is a podcast about healthy
living mind, body and spirit,and so hair care, any skin care,
all of these sort of conceptsare a big part of that.
And, kate, welcome to the show.
(00:47):
I'm glad to have you here.
I'd love to hear about yourstory.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for having me here.
It's my pleasure.
So tell me a little bit aboutyourself and how you got into
this world of hair care.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So I have been in the beauty industry for almost two
decades.
I've done every bit, fromformulation to marketing to
sales.
And you know, around 10 yearsago, when I was pregnant with my
first son, I read this book.
It was called Boys Adrift andit was about how to raise a son
to be a productive member ofsociety.
(01:22):
It was like all the pitfallsthat are happening in modern
life, and one of them was, likeyou know, video games.
One of them was like men,fathers and sons don't hunt a
lot together anymore.
And then one of the things inthe book that really just, it
wasn't even a big part of thebook, it was just a little tiny
slice that stuck with me foreverwas about plastics, and so, if
(01:43):
you can imagine, in 2014, I wasreading about how the author was
talking about how runoffs froma plastic factory in the Potomac
River was changing the biologyof male fish and allowing them
to lay eggs, and so that wassomething that, for me, that was
so, so mind blowing to me.
(02:04):
My mom had a PhD inanthropology and she'd always
talk to me about evolution.
It's a slow process, and herewe have, you know, this very
fast change in aquatic life, andnow we're discovering, 10 years
later, the impacts that plasticis having on human health.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
And even without getting political or anything
like that, I mean, if you lookat sociology and society and how
people are today versus 20, 30,50 years ago, and this whole
gender fluidity thing, which Idon't even have an opinion about
(02:44):
, but it didn't exist when I wasa kid, or it was in such a
small amount that whatever wasaffecting it.
And I don't know if plastic hasanything to do with it, but it
might be worth considering.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It's worth considering.
I don't know either, but theauthor seemed to kind of have a
nod to that because of what washappening.
Was the plastic bottled water?
You know, heyday?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
So I was chugging, chugging, chugging.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And then I came to this chapter in this book and
then I was like, oh, maybe notsuch a good idea.
And you know that that put meon a different course.
Suddenly, you, when you seethat plastic is everywhere and
you know how beauty is packagedin plastic, water in plastic,
and then you look at food inplastic and medical equipment in
(03:49):
plastic, it's just, it's aflooded it's.
You can't get away from it and Idon't expect anyone to get away
from it, but what I tried to dofor myself and my family was to
find, you know, substitutes forum items that I regularly
purchased in plastic, and inthat mission I discovered
something called a refillery.
I think they've been aroundmaybe five, six years, and so a
(04:14):
refillery is basically, foranyone that doesn't know, you
bring, like your jug ofdetergent and then you bring it
to a place and then fill it.
Instead of buying a new jug,you fill it at the store with
only what you need to buy or youknow.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I have actually not heard of that and I am like on
top of so many things, so Icertainly need to explore that.
I think that's a fantastic idea.
I produce natural products andI've offered that sort of a
service myself, but on a realsmall scale.
Where would you find thesethings?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
They're in every state.
Actually, if you go to whereI'm so passionate about people
getting into refilleries that Isell my hair care in almost all
of the refilleries around thecountry because I want people to
go into a refillery, Maybethey're going to buy dip, which
is what I sell, but then theycan just by accident be exposed
to all the other plastic-freeoptions that are out there.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I'm going to explore this and blow it up.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
My gosh, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
We're about health, right, but that's also planet
health, it's everything health,and it's all connected.
Health, it's everything health,and it's all connected.
And we live in such adisposable world that is such a
big part of the problem in somany ways that, if we can just
think about you know, in oldentimes they built things out of
clay and metal and glass andthings that you just reused over
(05:43):
and over and over again, andnowadays everything's one and
done and the landfills fill.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's everywhere, and so somerefilleries have just, you know,
body care essentials and youknow, plastic-free swaps Like
you can.
You know you don't never haveto buy saran wrap again.
They have solutions for thatthat are plastic-free and like
zip that stuff.
But you know there are alsomany refilleries that carry food
too.
So if you want to go and refillyour pasta or refill, like you
(06:14):
know, any grains or anythingthat you buy regularly, they're
there for you as well, and Ithink I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I'm gonna go explore.
Hopefully there's one close tome in Southern California
because I'm oh man, there's somany over there.
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You're a good man, you're going to hear about it
for sure, awesome.
So yeah, that's, I mean likethat's a big, a big piece of.
So you know, I read this book.
It changed my life.
I felt like the world suddenlylooked.
I don't want to say toxic Causethat's not like a a right way
to say it is, but it's also Idon't want to.
If you say toxic too much, itstarts to lose its meaning.
(06:52):
I agree.
And then it starts to be, itstarts to like bring it out to
life too, yeah.
Yeah, and so so you know, Inever say like completely
plastic free your life, but likeplastic, just be plastic
conscious, not don't be plasticblind things.
So yeah, and I think you know,a big part of sustainability now
(07:13):
is there.
We had a big blip insustainability and I think in
2020, 2021, during the pandemic,and sustainability became such
a buzzword itself that it lostits meaning.
exactly, people are so now yeahyeah, everyone's so fed up
because everything's calleditself sustainable.
Everyone big companies madesustainability uh promises and
(07:34):
then they quietly likebacktracked on all these, all
these.
Actually, yeah, it's a lot ofwork like I, you know I love my
company and that it's what Ithink sustainability should be,
but that it's not like peopleare that excited to start a
company where the goal is to getpeople to buy less stuff less
often.
(07:55):
Ignored directors wouldn't behappy about it Because even
though I purposely made aconditioner bar so it lasts most
people around six months to twoyears, depending on the length
of hair.
People are like how are yousustaining a business that way?
And I was like I made sure itwas so good that once someone
(08:17):
bought it they told all of theirfriends.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I totally agree with that business model.
I make natural products as welland I make them very
concentrated and very pure andthey come in little containers
and they last forever.
And people are like, why don'tyou make it in the big bottle?
I'm like, well, it would go badbefore it would be finished and
it's all natural, so why wouldI do that?
You know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, exactly, it's a very strange thing to explain
to someone that you want peopleto buy less, but the people that
get it get it and theyappreciate it, and I think
that's like a really importantthing.
It's like I don't need to sellmy dip bars to everybody, I just
need to sell them to the peoplethat really value that.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Get it.
Yeah, slowly but surely thatsort of collective consciousness
is improving.
Slowly but surely that sort ofcollective consciousness is
improving.
People are sifting through allthe information and all the
things and finding things thatwork and telling people about
them.
I think it's starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I think so too, and I don't need it to be so fast.
Do you know what I mean?
Because once a shift happenstoo fast, immediately it kind of
kind of fall, yeah, yeah it canfall off and so, and so I think
this is a true paradigm changeI think, yeah, I think it's.
it's one of those things thatlike requires a lot of people to
(09:41):
just slowly, you know, creepinto the movement, make a couple
changes at a time and thenstart to like learn with these
new changes.
Like, for something that isprobably relatable to everyone
is everyone in America buyspaper towels like crazy.
They're expensive and they'rewasteful and you know you can
(10:02):
just use reusable paper towels,which is like a fancy way to
call it, let's say, rag.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Right, I was going to say we used to have wash rags
and dish rags as just a stapleand you know, you'd have maybe
paper napkins, but even thenthey had cloth napkins as well.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah.
And so now you know, I thinkI'm probably six years into just
not buying paper towels.
I've probably had one pack.
That's lasted, it's still.
You know, it's still going,because I only use it in the
rare instances I host people andthey want bacon.
There you go, that's a papertowel.
Yeah, the paper towel is goodfor that, or French fries, yeah
(10:39):
it's the hero for that onespecific thing, but every other
instance that I would use apaper towel like the rag
completes that mission.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Old t-shirts at all.
It's works great, those things.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah.
So I think I think this shiftis so important and part of part
of what I tried to create.
I tried to create a hair carebrand that was so good that I
didn't need to mention theplastic free part of it in the
marketing and, um, you know,part of that was really really
focusing on performance, youknow, and not putting any of the
(11:12):
messaging that, hey, this isplastic free, like most of the
messaging is actually like hey,this is sold in salons.
It's not just saying it's salongrade, which is not a regulated
term, like right on shelves likethis is in almost all the
refill stores because they tryevery version of a shampoo and
conditioner bar.
And this is in almost all therefill stores because they try
every version of a shampoo andconditioner bar and this is the
one that they choose to sellbecause it is so good.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
It works.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah, and that, basically, is like what
motivates me and it gets me.
It gets me so excited to seesomeone who's never been in a
refill store, never discoveredit, go to our store locator and
suddenly find one by them, or tofind a salon near them that is
starting to shift their chemicaluse, you know, because they're
(11:55):
they're discovering thathairstylists are are getting
like ill after chronic illness.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Anything about hair, yeah, especially things like
coloring and totally all of thatis so friggin toxic.
Like people have no idea whatthey're putting on their skin,
that's their brain, which Idon't know.
If you know anything about skin, it's pretty, pretty permeable.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, and the long term exposure of someone
standing over these chemicalsand breathing them.
They're discovering it's likeit's.
It's become a real issue.
So so if you look at dip andyou on the store locator and you
find a salon that you didn'tknow existed but seems to
prioritize plastic free productsor other, you know dip lives in
a world with other, on a shelfwith, like other eco-friendly or
(12:43):
sustainable products Like I'mhappy if you don't choose this
one and you choose another one.
That's just better for you.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, you came from the beauty industry and that's a
pretty broad spectrum ofproducts.
You know from skincare,anti-aging, you know all sorts
of serums and everything.
What caused you to go to thehair side of things.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I secretly have always loved hair.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Nice hair.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I got to tell you you can't see it from the podcast,
but it's um, you know when I,when I, you know, a lot of times
when I meet people, I noticethe hair before the smile I
noticed, you know, like I, justI, I've loved, yeah, I've just
loved hair my whole life andI've had all different kinds of
hair I've had.
Yeah, I've just loved hair mywhole life and I've had all
different kinds of hair I've had.
(13:31):
I've had a purple beehive for amoment in New York I had.
I've had black hair, superblonde hair.
I've had even box braids.
I've had literally every kindof hair you could think of.
I've had it made silver foreditorial and I just, I, just I
think there's something funnyabout hair to me, like it's so
emotional, like you could have.
(13:53):
You could have a white t-shirtand jeans on every day and
amazing hair and still feel likea million bucks.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Absolutely.
I agree.
I used to have real long hair.
I'm going through chemotherapyright now, so I don't have any
hair right now, but that'semotional.
It's way emotional.
Oh yeah, no, I had for most ofmy life.
I had hair down the middle ofmy back and loved it and uh, so
it'll be back.
But I know, I know where you'recoming from yeah, I, I mean
(14:19):
that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
That's another.
Another thing is we offerfragrance free products because
there are a lot ofimmunocompromised people going
through chemotherapy and youknow any kind of extra, anything
, anything, yeah products iseverything it is.
It's not that it's risky, it'sjust that it's not um ended
(14:40):
right.
So we I have probably eightdifferent SKUs that have no
scent at all and and a lot ofpeople that are going through uh
, chemo, ivf I don't know anykind of uh like they have.
Some people have thyroid issuesor any of these, like I tell
them to do many things thatcould be affected.
(15:01):
Absolutely, yeah, like just staywith the fragrance free and you
know something that I just wantto talk about fragrance.
I suspect you have thoughts onit being in the industry.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I'm an essential oil guy.
But you know there's limits towhat essential oils can do and
how long they last, and all ofthat.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Totally, and you know , sometimes something's
something I learned like thedark side of essential oils is
sometimes they're cold pressedwith pesticides on the plant.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Oh, absolutely, you never know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
You have no idea what's actually going on your
skin, or you know.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
It's a broad brush and, just like everything else
finding good sources, getting toknow suppliers I mean it's a
lot of work to put out a goodproduct.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, I know, and so you know.
A non-traditional choice that Imade was using synthetic really
like the gold standard ofsynthetic fragrance for our bars
, mostly because I know thatthere are risks with essential
oils and not knowing thesuppliers.
Of course, if you're buyinglittle bits at a time from a
small farm, you can trust.
(16:06):
That's one thing.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But if you're buying something they generally don't
produce the volume that youwould bits at a time from a
small farm you can trust.
That's one thing, but buyingsomething they generally don't
produce the volume that youwould need at a price Right.
This is an important thing, Ithink, for people to hear and I
talk about this a lot, andespecially with my cancer
journey and things like that.
People have this notion aboutnatural and health and safety,
(16:33):
natural and health and safety.
And they also have a notionabout synthetic or chemical and
health and safety.
And the truth is everything's adouble-edged sword, totally
thing.
And and just because it grewout of the ground doesn't mean
it's not going to kill you.
And just because it wassynthesized from a mineral or
some other compound that comesout of the earth, which is what
all chemicals are, doesn't meanit's bad for you.
(16:53):
And there are plenty ofminerals and chemicals that are
inert or basically inert, andand there you can it's swimming
them and they're not going tohurt you.
And and so these broad brushesthat so many of us that are
trying to be healthy live by,you come to find out when you
start doing real research thatyou're just fooling yourself in
(17:16):
so many ways, so I canappreciate where you're coming
from going after something safeand good quality thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
That it's it's a, it's a very, it's a very touchy
subject.
Fragrance and essential oilsare also like you know.
There's people that go to thechurch of essential oils and
you're like there's there's someessential oils are amazing and
it depends on where they comefrom.
Some are amazing in one respect, but then you know know, they
(17:43):
create so much biomass to create, to to make them, or the places
where that that plant is growndoesn't have great labor
practices.
So people are like you know,you know not, they're not
treated well that are bringingthat oil to you and sometimes
the oil is at such a lowpercentage that you're not
getting the benefits that youthought you were getting right,
(18:05):
right.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, oil labeling is horrible in this industry and
people, yeah, call it pure andthen you come to find out it's.
You know, cut 80 with a carrierand you don't even know what
that is so I agree and I youknow, this show is all about
people learning for themselveshow to solve their problems, and
I think getting a broad base ofinformation is important and,
(18:29):
you know, taking the care tosource your ingredients.
That's the part that matters.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Absolutely and really really understanding the nuance
between one supplier andanother of the same ingredient.
It could be totally different,and so it's so nice to talk to
someone that understands that,because so often, sometimes, I'm
talking to someone that justhears fragrance bad, or
essential oils good, and that'sit yeah.
(18:54):
And I'm like, yeah, somefragrance is horrible and you
shouldn't go anywhere near it.
You shouldn't plug it into yourwalls and breathe it Like it's
all about exposure and some ithas, you know, is coming from
like a scientist, a phd chemist,who really knows what they're
doing and understands regulatorylimitations and so it's.
(19:18):
It's wild out there I, Itotally agree.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
but you know, again and again, even with things like
labeling, people will stickanything on their label and
they'll say this and that andthat doesn't make it so.
So really doing that researchis is really where the only
place you're going to findanswers and you know
manufacturers that take thatcare.
That's one of the reasons thatI would feature you know a
(19:43):
manufacturer of a product on ahealth show is because it
matters.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, and I want to talk about health and
refilleries real quick.
Yeah, I love so.
I know many of our stores.
We sold in a few hundred storesaround the country just just
for refilleries and I know manyof these, these people that have
opened these stores on you know.
I know them personally becausepeople that have opened these
stores I know them personallybecause I spend a lot of time
(20:09):
learning about them andinvesting in them as
entrepreneurs.
Also, it's a partnership whenone of them sells dip, because
we're doing it together.
Mostly, what I love about thismovement is that these people
are so, so in tune with whatshould and shouldn't go on their
shelves, health wise.
(20:31):
Like they really make sure thatthe ingredients of everything
they put on their shelves.
Like they do all the homeworkfor you, so you don't have to go
in there and and like panicabout what's on the shelves.
Like some people go into aTarget or Walmart and they like
are, you know, taking the appsand scanning all of them, but
(20:53):
the refilleries those owners areso passionate about ingredients
and your health that they doall of the homework for you, and
I think that that's somethingthat we should celebrate.
And, like you know, instead ofclicking add to cart, like get
up, get in your car, go to theirstore and really experience it.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
I'm excited.
I can't wait to visit one andget to know these people.
And again, this is I don't knowhow.
I never even stumbled upon thisin my life.
I mean, I've been sustainablepermaculture farmer for 40 years
.
Oh my God, what did you grow?
Oh, I still.
I have a.
I have a nonprofit calledGardens of Hope and we offer
(21:34):
what we call therapeutichorticulture and education.
So I've got a little two and ahalf acre botanical garden and a
small farm and we grow seasonalvegetables, we grow herbs and
flowers and people participatein the process.
So it's a healing garden by notonly the process of growing it
(21:55):
but the things that we grow andharvest that's so cool, I bet I
bet for the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Getting in that garden is probably magical and
my own healing journey.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's been instrumental.
And we have, you know, mentalhealth groups that come over,
special needs groups come overand everybody that touches the
ground benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's amazing and it's a nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, 501 c, three gardens of hope.
You bet I'll donate.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I'll donate when we get off the.
I think that's a really, reallyworthy cause and I think it's
really so exciting that thatexists.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I wish it existed for me.
You as a sponsor, yeah,absolutely, we'll help you.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, that's like you know.
I went through like a toughtime at one point and what I
really needed to do I didn'tknow about the parasympathetic
nervous system.
Like didn't know, this wassomething that hadn't come in
into my brain before we talkedabout it and now just like
refilleries yeah, like I didn'tcame in, I had no idea that that
(22:56):
.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
You know, the things that were I needed to heal were
like a gratitude journal goingoutside in a hammock and you
know, among the flowers and justhear, hear the sounds of the
birds.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, like not listening to podcasts or music,
when I'm walking in the woodsand noticing like the light come
through the trees, like that.
That was something I didn'tknow was part of the medicine I
needed and um and it, it totallyblew my mind that there was
this whole thing that we neverlearned in health class.
That was vital and crucial toyour well-being.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Absolutely, absolutely Well.
We're all about it and we lovesharing it, and if you're ever
in Southern California, I'd loveto show you around.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, absolutely, I'd love to come see the farm,
especially Exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Well, listen, we're getting close to that bewitching
hour.
This has been exciting hearingabout your story, your products
and this is where I give you acouple of minutes to give your
final thoughts and elevatorpitch and how everybody can get
ahold of you.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Sure, hey.
So my name is Kate Assaraf.
I own Dip.
It is very serious hair carefor not so serious people, and
what it is is it's plastic free,sold in small stores and salons
and surf shops around thecountry, and it actually works.
So you don't have to worry.
We don't hire influencers andwe don't pay people to pretend
that they bought it like theonly hype you ever hear from
(24:17):
actual customers, and you canfind us at dipalreadycom and
also at at dip on Instagram andTikTok.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Fantastic.
Well, kate, it's been anabsolute pleasure to speak with
you.
I wasn't sure how thisconversation would go, because I
just didn't have much thoughtabout it, but I'm really glad to
have met you and I look forwardto furthering our conversation
as we go.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Me too.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Wonderful.
This has been another episodeof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine.
I thank you for your supportand we will see you next time.
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