May 5, 2025 • 27 mins
What happens when healthcare providers decide they've had enough of a broken system? Dr. Sarah Crawford is pioneering a revolutionary approach with Anchor Wellness, a cooperative model that's changing how healthcare services are delivered and accessed.
The statistics are startling – a mere 18% of licensed physical therapists are currently practicing in clinical settings, hospitals are hemorrhaging money (with regional losses in the hundreds of millions), and doctors are fleeing traditional systems in record numbers. Meanwhile, insurance companies continue to thrive. This fundamental disconnect illuminates why our healthcare system so often fails both patients and providers.
As a doctor of physical therapy specializing in complex pain conditions, Crawford discovered early in her 14-year career that traditional healthcare models severely limited her ability to provide effective care. Her approach evolved to examine the whole person – their nutrition, sleep patterns, social connections, occupational stressors, and trauma history – recognizing that humans are complex, dynamic beings rather than straightforward machines in need of simple fixes. But implementing this comprehensive care model proved nearly impossible within conventional healthcare structures.
Anchor Wellness emerged from this challenge – a co-op where like-minded health and wellness entrepreneurs share physical space, administrative support, and business consulting. This innovative model liberates practitioners from bureaucratic constraints while fostering collaboration across disciplines including physical therapy, nutrition therapy, trauma therapy, massage, strength training, Pilates, and yoga. The result? Providers can focus on delivering exceptional care while building sustainable businesses, and patients receive the personalized, comprehensive treatment they deserve.
Ready to experience healthcare that puts humans first? Visit anchorscincy.com or find Anchor Wellness Cincy on social media platforms. For providers interested in joining this movement or bringing this model to new communities, contact Sarah directly at sarah@anchorcincy.com and become part of the solution transforming healthcare access nationwide.
Intro for podcast
information about subscriptions
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest and her name is Sarah.
And Sarah Crawford is a doctor,the founder of Anchor Wellness,
and she's got a lot of greatinformation.
You know, we talk a lot aboutproducts and services and
(00:24):
practices and patients anddoctors and practitioners of all
kinds, but behind the scenes ofall of these is an engine, a
vehicle, a way to get a productor service from the person
that's creating it to the personwho needs it, product or
(00:44):
service from the person that'screating it to the person who
needs it.
And many of us that are in theindustry in any way are really
good at creating things andbuilding ideas, but terrible at
executing and bringing them tothe people that need it and
maybe figuring out how to makeenough money to sustain this,
and Sarah's got some ideas aboutall that.
Welcome to the show.
(01:05):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm doing really well.
Reflecting on a rough dayyesterday, spending the day at a
funeral, and so I feel veryfortunate and grateful to be
here with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Nice, well, likewise, yeah, tell us a little bit
about you.
Know your business, maybe alittle bit about yourself.
How'd you come into this AnchorWellness project?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sure.
So I am a doctor of physicaltherapy.
I've been practicing for 14years and I have some specialty
training that specifically workswith people with more complex
pain, and I found very quicklythat the way that I was trained
wasn't effective in thetraditional model of physical
(01:53):
therapy, and so most of my carelooks more like talking to
somebody about what's going onin their life, what their
nutrition looks like, what theirsleep habits look like, what
their social interactions areoccupationally, what they do,
where their stress lies, whattrauma they've potentially
experienced.
And all of that helps meformulate why are you
(02:15):
experiencing this particularpain phenomenon?
And most of those people needmore than just me to get to
wherever they want to be from ahealth standpoint right.
Sometimes I can help somebodyget pretty far along, but it
usually takes a team becausewe're complex.
Human beings are really complex.
We're really dynamic.
We aren't these just kind ofstraightforward machines like
(02:39):
cars are.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I'd like to stop you there just for a second, because
what you said is very impactful.
As I'm working to cure mycancer, I've learned that having
a team is not just importantbut critical, and building a
community is really what thispodcast is all about, and so the
fact that you nailed that righton the head is important.
(03:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, you know, so we are.
We have needs that are really,like I said, dynamic, and so I
found myself naturallygravitating to other providers
who thought like me, right, whorecognized the biopsychosocial
model and its relevance incaring for human beings, and
(03:25):
what I found is that we were alljust really dispersed from one
another.
We were, you know, we wereacross town, we were in
different systems, we are ondifferent EMRs, we had different
billing procedures, like it wasjust all so spread out, and so
what I sought out was anopportunity to gather all the
(03:46):
people who thought like me, thathad similar values and missions
, and let's get them all intothe same space and let's get
them out of this bureaucraticred tape that is traditional
health care, where insurance ismaking decisions.
And so I wrote this businessplan for Anchor in 2013.
(04:06):
I didn't execute on it until2019 because I was in debt from
student loans and young and dumband didn't have any money, and
so I sat on it for a while.
But Anchor is essentially aco-op where we bring like-minded
health and wellnessentrepreneurs into the same
physical space.
We time, share out space, weshare administrators and
(04:31):
operations, and then we supportthem on the back end of their
business, as well as businessconsulting and strategy to help
them really execute running abusiness.
As you mentioned, there arereally great providers in this
country, amazing providers.
There are people in everydiscipline, from the highest end
(04:52):
medical trained to the lowestend certification based whether
that's like a reflexology or ahealing touch provider, all the
way up to your neurosurgeons.
And what really often gets inthe way of them providing care
is the systems in which they'reworking.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And so, yeah, anchor was created to create systems
that allow these reallyfantastic providers to operate
and grow a business withoutworrying about the headache that
is the back end, and be incommunity because you can be
really good and go and have yourown square box that you're in
by yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But then when you get stunted with a client or you
get to a place where you're likeyou know what this is.
Just this is outside of mycanoe.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And you'll always find that probably quicker than
you thought.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Exactly, but then you have nowhere to send them right
, you've got no other brains tobounce ideas off of or borrow,
and so I wanted to create aplace where people could be
autonomous and independent intheir own practices but still
have the support that a systemtraditionally offers, and so
that's what Anchor is.
So at this point we havephysical therapy, nutrition
(06:03):
therapy, physical therapy,nutrition therapy, trauma
therapy, massage therapy,strength training, pilates, yoga
therapy, health coaching.
Uh, if I had my way, by the endof the year we would have an
internal medicine, functionalmedicine, orthopedics, mental
health.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So we still have a lot of disciplines or therapies
that are emerging right now,like ozone therapy and different
oxygen modalities that I'mworking with a lot with.
You know my cancer, and most ofthem, or many of them, are not
(06:41):
covered by traditional insurance, or many of them are not
covered by traditional insuranceand they're expensive and
people need to find a way tonavigate that, and I think that
there's a bridge that can bebuilt.
Sounds like what you're talkingabout is a perfect place for
something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think , when you really think about it
, who is winning when we look attraditional healthcare right
now?
It's not the consumer,certainly not us, it's not the
consumer, it's not the providers.
No, their burnout rates areexceptional.
They're leaving.
18% of licensed physicaltherapists in this country are
working in a clinic right nowRight One-eighth.
(07:18):
That's astonishing.
Physicians are leaving.
There's a mass exodus ofprimary care doctors leaving
these giant organizations, sophysicians aren't benefiting.
The hospitals aren't winning.
These hospitals regionally I'mhere in Cincinnati regionally
there's a half a billion dollarsin lost revenue year to date,
so far this year.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Everybody's leaving, except for the insurance
companies.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Who's winning?
The insurance companies, right,and so we won't get there until
there are more providers likeus who say we're not going to
participate with you insurancebecause the longer we continue
to participate, the morecomplicit we are in their
systems.
So you're going to see it, butnow what you'll?
What you have probably found islike in my physical therapy
(08:00):
practice that I own, we bill atabout one half to a third the
amount that insurance-basedpractices bill.
But when you go back topre-1950s insurance, where all
people paid for in their monthlypremium was catastrophic care,
right, hospitalizations, andyou're now just paying that
minimum premium, that's like,hey, when I'm really sick I need
(08:22):
you, but when I'm kind of sick,I got it, I got myself.
I think we're watching thathappen, but it's only going to
happen when more and moreproviders start to pull out of
these.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Even with that I mean , that's the route I had to go,
being self-employed and nothaving, you know, having to put
all my energy into this you getthis deductible that says, well,
we're not going to give youmuch of anything until you pay
that.
And so, for even the littlestuff on the way to a big thing,
you'll have this overwhelmingdeductible to cover because your
(08:55):
premiums were quote unquote low, and you put yourself either
way into this unsolvable problem.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, and that's the thing.
People just don't understandhow insurance works Exactly.
Yeah, and that's the thingPeople just don't understand how
insurance works.
I think the more due diligencepeople do when they're choosing
their insurances.
You know you're starting to seea lot more of these like
MedShare programs, pop up.
A lot of them are sort ofreligious based, but that
doesn't require you to be.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's what true insurance is.
It's let's all put money into apot right, pull from it when we
need it, exactly.
And large businesses do that.
They self-insure.
And you see, you know a lot ofthese hospital systems are
self-insured right, they're notpaying the insurance companies
exactly um, but anyway you know.
so I think it really myperspective is that every person
(09:48):
has the ability to heal, right,and just like every individual
who wants to be a business ownerhas the ability to succeed.
But what is in your internaland external environment is what
matters the most, and it'sreally quite basic for most of
us, right?
It's having the right peoplearound you, having the right
nutrition, having the righthydration, getting sleep and
(10:09):
moving your body.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And that is the same whether we're talking about a
consumer of health care servicesor a provider of the show.
I just really want to emphasizethat that the community that
you build is maybe one of themost important tools, because
it's you're.
No matter what you're doing,you can't do it all.
And no matter what you'relearning, you won't learn it all
(10:40):
, and if you can surroundyourself with people that have
an expertise or additionalexperience in any one of the
points, it can be so valuable oryou don't have to start from
scratch, especially if you'redealing with a serious illness
or injury, you have to put somuch energy at that alone that
(11:04):
it takes away from your abilityto go find and learn new things
and to have a community that youcan rely on.
You know a vetted group ofpeople that you can say well, I
know, if I go here, I'm morelikely not to be led down a
wrong path and more likely to beled down a good path.
I think that's some of whatyou're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah for sure.
So you know, for our businessowners that we support that's
exactly what we do, right?
Instead of you, joe, going tostart your business and you know
some square box down the roadand me, sarah, go in and you
know I'm going to go try andfind all my own services.
Right, I got to decide who toget internet from, decide who to
(11:49):
pay water to decide what systemto use to keep track of my
scheduling and appointments andmedical records.
You know we're collecting that.
But also you get to this pointwhere, like, okay, that's all
like the foundation, the stuffyou need to operate, but then
it's like, but now how do Istart to grow?
And so you get to learn fromother people's shared
experiences, right, hey, I'mthinking about mentoring into
this digital advertising.
(12:11):
Has anybody had any experiencewith that?
Who'd you try?
What should I know?
Going into these conversationswith so-and-so?
And it's the same thing we doas consumers, right?
Hopefully, not everybody does,but hopefully you're pulling
your friends to say, hey, hasanybody been to this place or
seen this doctor?
Somebody just told me I neededsurgery, but I'd like to get a
(12:32):
second opinion.
Anybody have somebody theyrecommend, and so, again, it's
the same thing.
That's what I said to youbefore the show.
No matter what the audience is,we all have the same basic
needs.
Right needs and having people inyour corner, people in your
(12:54):
sphere of influence, that youcan pop ideas off of and get
feedback from right.
That's the other importantthing is being open to feedback.
And you might say, hey, Sarah,I'm going to go see this
particular provider and ifyou're not open to feedback, I'm
going to say, okay.
But if you're open to feedbackand I've got some past
experiences with them, I don'tthink that's the best place for
(13:16):
you to go.
But you have to be willing tobe open for feedback and that is
not always the case.
I've seen that clinically as apractitioner for 14 years, where
patients come in and they wantto be better, but they don't
want to do the work and they'renot open to changing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right.
They're not open to walkingaway from a really tumultuous
marriage that they know hasnever worked, or a challenging
job, or creating some sort ofenergetic barriers to you know a
mother-in-law.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Who knows.
You know, there's a couple ofquestions that I generally look
at as to determine if somebodyis even willing to have a
conversation, and I use that.
As my energy is diminished, Ineed to be very careful where I
put it, and so I'll ask somebodywell, what's your goal, what
are you trying to accomplish andwhat are you willing to do?
And if you can answer both ofthose questions honestly, then
(14:08):
it tells me if we're ready for aconversation or if I say well,
thank you for your time and Iwish you well, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, it's so true, and I think when you ask that
more consistently, you probablyrealize how few people are
really, you know, compatible.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right, exactly.
And we waste so much timetrying to convince people of
things and you're never going todo that unless they're seeking
those things you're trying to.
You have to offer.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, and the nice thing about Anchor because we
are such a specialty collection,we generally get people here
who do want to make change.
Right, and I think that's theother piece about taking
insurance out of it is you getto work with people who are
choosing the services that theywant.
They're typically in thedriver's seat themselves.
(14:58):
Right, they're not beingdictated to.
Hey, I want you to go see thisperson and do this procedure and
get this test done and try thissupplement, and blah, blah,
blah, blah.
Right, they're in the driver'sseat.
They're coming to somebody inour organization for guidance,
support, um, navigationpotentially.
But they also own the decision,right, they're not just like,
(15:20):
well, whatever insurance paysfor I'll take.
Right, they're saying I have,uh, my own autonomy in this, in
this situation and for thiscondition, and I have an outcome
that I want to go after, and sothe motivation's there.
And when you have motivation,you can almost always get what
you want.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, it's huge.
I mean, you know you can tellthe person that's driven.
That's why you know I lovedoing this show, because
generally the guests that Ibring in have that motivation.
They believe in what they'redoing enough that they really
are exuberant about sharing itand you can just tell.
That's why I like to look youin the eye because I can tell
you're not reading off a scriptand just saying the thing you've
(16:01):
said a thousand times.
You're sharing your experienceand that's powerful.
And when somebody is moved todo something and they have to go
outside of the norm to get it,most people won't do that.
Most people will just stay withtheir standard of care and do
what the doctor says, or you dowhat the insurance says.
They say they can't do it.
I guess I can't do it.
(16:22):
And yet there are some of usthat say, well then, let me find
another way.
And I think those are thepeople finding you.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well then, let me find another way, and I think
those are the people finding you.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, I'malways, I'm always mindful to
say that like I think thiscountry has some of the smartest
people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Some of the smartest people.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Some of the dumbest too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't say that, joe, you did.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know, but that's OK , it's my show.
I can say it if I want to.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
But no, we do.
It's just that our systemsdon't allow it right.
It is reactive and it is sickcare, and we all know it.
And as long as providerscontinue to be complicit in it,
it is going to be that way.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And so my goal.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
My why is I want to change how healthcare is
accessed.
That's all I care about.
That is what I live for everysingle day.
Because I see way too manypeople get to me and I'm just a
measly little physical therapist, right, you know, bottom of the
totem pole in the healthcaresphere.
They get to me and they'rereally in bad shape and simple
things make a world ofdifference, right?
(17:22):
All of a sudden they're offstatins.
All of a sudden they're eatingmore vegetables.
All of a sudden theircholesterols come down, they're
sleeping better, they've lost alittle weight.
Because we talked about onething, right, we've got the time
to have those conversations.
And when you work in aninsurance based setting, you
don't, because it is aboutvolume, yes, volume over
(17:43):
everything else.
And and that's the job don't?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
care about you genuinely, genuinely.
If you find a practitioner, adoctor who does, that's
challenge, they don't care aboutyou genuinely.
If you find a practitioner or adoctor who does, that's
wonderful.
They don't always, but it'smore likely.
But to the insurance people,you're a number, yeah, and it's
going to be more than that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and the providers do they?
Just their hands are tied.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Their hands are tied because they've got somebody
booked 10 minutes later and theyget bonus based off of customer
satisfaction.
And if you sit for an hourwaiting for an appointment
you're going to be pissed.
So you know they're.
They're in a damned if they doand damned if they don't
situation.
So I try not to fault theproviders as much as possible.
(18:26):
Some are to your point, yeah,just not good, just you know,
basically cashing a check.
But there are a lot of reallypassionate, intelligent people
out there that just can't figureout a way.
And health education in thiscountry is exceptionally
expensive.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So you've got people who are coming into their
positions in these really kindof quite powerful positions, who
are upside down and wealth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Right Also just to spend their time thinking about
that, and that's that takes awayfrom you to execute the
practice.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, I mean I consistently tell people not to
go into physical therapy today.
You know, if I've got a highschool student that will observe
with me, I'm like, don't, don'tlike if you're lucky enough to
practice in a setting like this,but it's hard.
It's hard because I don't haveinsurance feeding me patients,
right?
So we have to go find our ownclients and we have to keep them
happy and we have to be reallyunique.
(19:24):
And we spend a lot of time withpeople, so you're absorbing a
lot of people's stuff.
You've got to know how tomanage that, so, um, and not
everybody can, so yeah, so it'san interesting time and space,
and I think what Anchor ishoping to solve for is is
creating that place where peoplecan still work in the way that
they were trained and what theywent to school for in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And create some wealth for themselves, sure
Without having to, you know,sell their soul to the devil.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I couldn't agree more .
I'm curious we're getting alittle low on time, but I'd like
to hear about the genesis, thefirst.
As you just begun this, youknow you made the leap, you
opened the doors.
Tell me about the first fewclients that came through and
how that worked out.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, I opened my doors six months before COVID,
so Always a great time to starta business right.
So there was that, so we openedin July of 19, and then
obviously COVID started, and theblessing of COVID for this
situation is real estate becamewidely available.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And so I took a leap of faith and expanded in August
of 20, unsure of whether or notI'd be the only person in the
fiscal space or not, and it tookus about a year to really get
another.
The new will come right, yeah,yeah.
(20:52):
And so you know that's been aninteresting thing that I think
has changed since COVID.
There's a lot more access totelehealth.
I personally and I'm an N ofone in my opinion means nothing
to most people, but I personallybelieve that we as healthcare
providers have a responsibilityto get people into physical
(21:12):
space with one another.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I agree there is some things with an initial
consultation with telehealth,but beyond that that one-on-one
time is is instrumental.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, I think if you are taking a biomedical approach
, telehealth works just fine,right Cause I can look at labs,
I can look at some images, youknow.
But when we are talking aboutbiopsychosocial and I need to
know, when I bring up like oh,how'd you get here today and you
sit back in your chair a littleweird, or you cross your arms
or maybe you start to shake yourfoot, I need to be able to see
(21:46):
that, right, or I need to knowwhat happens.
I need to feel what happens toyou when I start to have a
challenging conversation, and soI do think that there's a
responsibility of healthcareproviders to get people back.
There's also still just a lotof fear about being out in
community and amongst peoplepost COVID.
So so, yeah, it took us alittle while and I think this
(22:09):
model is very much based off ofreal estate.
Right, it's a we share, we time, share out physical space, and
so a lot of people have theability now to flex virtual
versus in person, and that was asurprise and a hiccup, but the
nice thing is is like we can, wecan adjust with it.
I just try and seek providersto come into this network who,
(22:32):
um, who believe the same thingas me, right, who believe that
we do have a responsibility tobeing in physical space with
somebody.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But so far, you know, we're growing.
I think, uh, I think we are alittle ahead of the game in
terms of what is happening, um,nationally, from a healthcare
perspective.
With this, like I said, thesehospital systems are losing
primary care doctors hand overfoot and I think these primary
care docs are not making nearlythe money that they used to.
(23:01):
And so I'm saying, look, if I'mnot going to make as much money
, I'm just going to go out andopen up a concierge or a direct
primary care practice.
See one-tenth of the patientsand make money and provide
better care.
So I think we are well set up tobe able to absorb some people
who are currently in systemscontemplating making a move.
(23:25):
So I think we're hopefullypioneers in that regard.
But yeah, it was a doozygetting through COVID.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, why don't you tell us about the area that you
serve and how people can get ahold of you?
As this show is growing, we'regetting a lot of new
practitioners and physiciansthat are sharing their
experiences, and I just knowthat this is a resource that I'd
like to make available to them.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, thank you, so we are right now in them.
Well, thank you, so we areright now in Cincinnati.
We have two locations, and soto find us online is
anchorsincycomA-N-C-H-O-R-C-I-N-C-Ycom, and
you can find us on Instagram,facebook, linkedin, anchor
Wellness Cincy on all three ofthose, and I'm always reachable
(24:12):
by email, sarah with an H atanchorcincycom.
But my goal has always been toreally grow.
Like I said, like I want tochange how healthcare is
accessed, I want to make it moreefficient for consumers and I
want to make sure that providersare thriving, not surviving,
and so you know our goal is tobe to have an anchor wellness
center everywhere you look rightLike I would love to have one
(24:34):
regionally in Indianapolis andColumbus or down into Lexington.
So you know those are whatwe're looking for for next moves
, but you know we we would lookfor somebody like me who has a
practice and really believes intrying to to raise the ceiling
on what our potential is andwants and believes in
multidisciplinary care.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Well, sarah, I appreciate you joining us today
and, as you're developing andgrowing, I'd love to have you
back to continue theconversation.
I want to thank all thelisteners that have made this
show increasingly more popularand effective.
We're building a community foryou and, sarah, you're now part
of that community.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Ah, I feel so blessed .
Thank you, thanks for having meJoe.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine,and we will see you next time.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest and her name is Sarah.
And Sarah Crawford is a doctor,the founder of Anchor Wellness,
and she's got a lot of greatinformation.
You know, we talk a lot aboutproducts and services and
(00:24):
practices and patients anddoctors and practitioners of all
kinds, but behind the scenes ofall of these is an engine, a
vehicle, a way to get a productor service from the person
that's creating it to the personwho needs it, product or
(00:44):
service from the person that'screating it to the person who
needs it.
And many of us that are in theindustry in any way are really
good at creating things andbuilding ideas, but terrible at
executing and bringing them tothe people that need it and
maybe figuring out how to makeenough money to sustain this,
and Sarah's got some ideas aboutall that.
Welcome to the show.
(01:05):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
I'm doing really well.
Reflecting on a rough dayyesterday, spending the day at a
funeral, and so I feel veryfortunate and grateful to be
here with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Nice, well, likewise, yeah, tell us a little bit
about you.
Know your business, maybe alittle bit about yourself.
How'd you come into this AnchorWellness project?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sure.
So I am a doctor of physicaltherapy.
I've been practicing for 14years and I have some specialty
training that specifically workswith people with more complex
pain, and I found very quicklythat the way that I was trained
wasn't effective in thetraditional model of physical
(01:53):
therapy, and so most of my carelooks more like talking to
somebody about what's going onin their life, what their
nutrition looks like, what theirsleep habits look like, what
their social interactions areoccupationally, what they do,
where their stress lies, whattrauma they've potentially
experienced.
And all of that helps meformulate why are you
(02:15):
experiencing this particularpain phenomenon?
And most of those people needmore than just me to get to
wherever they want to be from ahealth standpoint right.
Sometimes I can help somebodyget pretty far along, but it
usually takes a team becausewe're complex.
Human beings are really complex.
We're really dynamic.
We aren't these just kind ofstraightforward machines like
(02:39):
cars are.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I'd like to stop you there just for a second, because
what you said is very impactful.
As I'm working to cure mycancer, I've learned that having
a team is not just importantbut critical, and building a
community is really what thispodcast is all about, and so the
fact that you nailed that righton the head is important.
(03:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, you know, so we are.
We have needs that are really,like I said, dynamic, and so I
found myself naturallygravitating to other providers
who thought like me, right, whorecognized the biopsychosocial
model and its relevance incaring for human beings, and
(03:25):
what I found is that we were alljust really dispersed from one
another.
We were, you know, we wereacross town, we were in
different systems, we are ondifferent EMRs, we had different
billing procedures, like it wasjust all so spread out, and so
what I sought out was anopportunity to gather all the
(03:46):
people who thought like me, thathad similar values and missions
, and let's get them all intothe same space and let's get
them out of this bureaucraticred tape that is traditional
health care, where insurance ismaking decisions.
And so I wrote this businessplan for Anchor in 2013.
(04:06):
I didn't execute on it until2019 because I was in debt from
student loans and young and dumband didn't have any money, and
so I sat on it for a while.
But Anchor is essentially aco-op where we bring like-minded
health and wellnessentrepreneurs into the same
physical space.
We time, share out space, weshare administrators and
(04:31):
operations, and then we supportthem on the back end of their
business, as well as businessconsulting and strategy to help
them really execute running abusiness.
As you mentioned, there arereally great providers in this
country, amazing providers.
There are people in everydiscipline, from the highest end
(04:52):
medical trained to the lowestend certification based whether
that's like a reflexology or ahealing touch provider, all the
way up to your neurosurgeons.
And what really often gets inthe way of them providing care
is the systems in which they'reworking.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And so, yeah, anchor was created to create systems
that allow these reallyfantastic providers to operate
and grow a business withoutworrying about the headache that
is the back end, and be incommunity because you can be
really good and go and have yourown square box that you're in
by yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But then when you get stunted with a client or you
get to a place where you're likeyou know what this is.
Just this is outside of mycanoe.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And you'll always find that probably quicker than
you thought.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Exactly, but then you have nowhere to send them right
, you've got no other brains tobounce ideas off of or borrow,
and so I wanted to create aplace where people could be
autonomous and independent intheir own practices but still
have the support that a systemtraditionally offers, and so
that's what Anchor is.
So at this point we havephysical therapy, nutrition
(06:03):
therapy, physical therapy,nutrition therapy, trauma
therapy, massage therapy,strength training, pilates, yoga
therapy, health coaching.
Uh, if I had my way, by the endof the year we would have an
internal medicine, functionalmedicine, orthopedics, mental
health.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So we still have a lot of disciplines or therapies
that are emerging right now,like ozone therapy and different
oxygen modalities that I'mworking with a lot with.
You know my cancer, and most ofthem, or many of them, are not
(06:41):
covered by traditional insurance, or many of them are not
covered by traditional insuranceand they're expensive and
people need to find a way tonavigate that, and I think that
there's a bridge that can bebuilt.
Sounds like what you're talkingabout is a perfect place for
something like that.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think , when you really think about it
, who is winning when we look attraditional healthcare right
now?
It's not the consumer,certainly not us, it's not the
consumer, it's not the providers.
No, their burnout rates areexceptional.
They're leaving.
18% of licensed physicaltherapists in this country are
working in a clinic right nowRight One-eighth.
(07:18):
That's astonishing.
Physicians are leaving.
There's a mass exodus ofprimary care doctors leaving
these giant organizations, sophysicians aren't benefiting.
The hospitals aren't winning.
These hospitals regionally I'mhere in Cincinnati regionally
there's a half a billion dollarsin lost revenue year to date,
so far this year.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Everybody's leaving, except for the insurance
companies.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Who's winning?
The insurance companies, right,and so we won't get there until
there are more providers likeus who say we're not going to
participate with you insurancebecause the longer we continue
to participate, the morecomplicit we are in their
systems.
So you're going to see it, butnow what you'll?
What you have probably found islike in my physical therapy
(08:00):
practice that I own, we bill atabout one half to a third the
amount that insurance-basedpractices bill.
But when you go back topre-1950s insurance, where all
people paid for in their monthlypremium was catastrophic care,
right, hospitalizations, andyou're now just paying that
minimum premium, that's like,hey, when I'm really sick I need
(08:22):
you, but when I'm kind of sick,I got it, I got myself.
I think we're watching thathappen, but it's only going to
happen when more and moreproviders start to pull out of
these.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Even with that I mean , that's the route I had to go,
being self-employed and nothaving, you know, having to put
all my energy into this you getthis deductible that says, well,
we're not going to give youmuch of anything until you pay
that.
And so, for even the littlestuff on the way to a big thing,
you'll have this overwhelmingdeductible to cover because your
(08:55):
premiums were quote unquote low, and you put yourself either
way into this unsolvable problem.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, and that's the thing.
People just don't understandhow insurance works Exactly.
Yeah, and that's the thingPeople just don't understand how
insurance works.
I think the more due diligencepeople do when they're choosing
their insurances.
You know you're starting to seea lot more of these like
MedShare programs, pop up.
A lot of them are sort ofreligious based, but that
doesn't require you to be.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
That's what true insurance is.
It's let's all put money into apot right, pull from it when we
need it, exactly.
And large businesses do that.
They self-insure.
And you see, you know a lot ofthese hospital systems are
self-insured right, they're notpaying the insurance companies
exactly um, but anyway you know.
so I think it really myperspective is that every person
(09:48):
has the ability to heal, right,and just like every individual
who wants to be a business ownerhas the ability to succeed.
But what is in your internaland external environment is what
matters the most, and it'sreally quite basic for most of
us, right?
It's having the right peoplearound you, having the right
nutrition, having the righthydration, getting sleep and
(10:09):
moving your body.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And that is the same whether we're talking about a
consumer of health care servicesor a provider of the show.
I just really want to emphasizethat that the community that
you build is maybe one of themost important tools, because
it's you're.
No matter what you're doing,you can't do it all.
And no matter what you'relearning, you won't learn it all
(10:40):
, and if you can surroundyourself with people that have
an expertise or additionalexperience in any one of the
points, it can be so valuable oryou don't have to start from
scratch, especially if you'redealing with a serious illness
or injury, you have to put somuch energy at that alone that
(11:04):
it takes away from your abilityto go find and learn new things
and to have a community that youcan rely on.
You know a vetted group ofpeople that you can say well, I
know, if I go here, I'm morelikely not to be led down a
wrong path and more likely to beled down a good path.
I think that's some of whatyou're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah for sure.
So you know, for our businessowners that we support that's
exactly what we do, right?
Instead of you, joe, going tostart your business and you know
some square box down the roadand me, sarah, go in and you
know I'm going to go try andfind all my own services.
Right, I got to decide who toget internet from, decide who to
(11:49):
pay water to decide what systemto use to keep track of my
scheduling and appointments andmedical records.
You know we're collecting that.
But also you get to this pointwhere, like, okay, that's all
like the foundation, the stuffyou need to operate, but then
it's like, but now how do Istart to grow?
And so you get to learn fromother people's shared
experiences, right, hey, I'mthinking about mentoring into
this digital advertising.
(12:11):
Has anybody had any experiencewith that?
Who'd you try?
What should I know?
Going into these conversationswith so-and-so?
And it's the same thing we doas consumers, right?
Hopefully, not everybody does,but hopefully you're pulling
your friends to say, hey, hasanybody been to this place or
seen this doctor?
Somebody just told me I neededsurgery, but I'd like to get a
(12:32):
second opinion.
Anybody have somebody theyrecommend, and so, again, it's
the same thing.
That's what I said to youbefore the show.
No matter what the audience is,we all have the same basic
needs.
Right needs and having people inyour corner, people in your
(12:54):
sphere of influence, that youcan pop ideas off of and get
feedback from right.
That's the other importantthing is being open to feedback.
And you might say, hey, Sarah,I'm going to go see this
particular provider and ifyou're not open to feedback, I'm
going to say, okay.
But if you're open to feedbackand I've got some past
experiences with them, I don'tthink that's the best place for
(13:16):
you to go.
But you have to be willing tobe open for feedback and that is
not always the case.
I've seen that clinically as apractitioner for 14 years, where
patients come in and they wantto be better, but they don't
want to do the work and they'renot open to changing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right.
They're not open to walkingaway from a really tumultuous
marriage that they know hasnever worked, or a challenging
job, or creating some sort ofenergetic barriers to you know a
mother-in-law.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Who knows.
You know, there's a couple ofquestions that I generally look
at as to determine if somebodyis even willing to have a
conversation, and I use that.
As my energy is diminished, Ineed to be very careful where I
put it, and so I'll ask somebodywell, what's your goal, what
are you trying to accomplish andwhat are you willing to do?
And if you can answer both ofthose questions honestly, then
(14:08):
it tells me if we're ready for aconversation or if I say well,
thank you for your time and Iwish you well, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, it's so true, and I think when you ask that
more consistently, you probablyrealize how few people are
really, you know, compatible.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Right, exactly.
And we waste so much timetrying to convince people of
things and you're never going todo that unless they're seeking
those things you're trying to.
You have to offer.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, and the nice thing about Anchor because we
are such a specialty collection,we generally get people here
who do want to make change.
Right, and I think that's theother piece about taking
insurance out of it is you getto work with people who are
choosing the services that theywant.
They're typically in thedriver's seat themselves.
(14:58):
Right, they're not beingdictated to.
Hey, I want you to go see thisperson and do this procedure and
get this test done and try thissupplement, and blah, blah,
blah, blah.
Right, they're in the driver'sseat.
They're coming to somebody inour organization for guidance,
support, um, navigationpotentially.
But they also own the decision,right, they're not just like,
(15:20):
well, whatever insurance paysfor I'll take.
Right, they're saying I have,uh, my own autonomy in this, in
this situation and for thiscondition, and I have an outcome
that I want to go after, and sothe motivation's there.
And when you have motivation,you can almost always get what
you want.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, it's huge.
I mean, you know you can tellthe person that's driven.
That's why you know I lovedoing this show, because
generally the guests that Ibring in have that motivation.
They believe in what they'redoing enough that they really
are exuberant about sharing itand you can just tell.
That's why I like to look youin the eye because I can tell
you're not reading off a scriptand just saying the thing you've
(16:01):
said a thousand times.
You're sharing your experienceand that's powerful.
And when somebody is moved todo something and they have to go
outside of the norm to get it,most people won't do that.
Most people will just stay withtheir standard of care and do
what the doctor says, or you dowhat the insurance says.
They say they can't do it.
I guess I can't do it.
(16:22):
And yet there are some of usthat say, well then, let me find
another way.
And I think those are thepeople finding you.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well then, let me find another way, and I think
those are the people finding you.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, I'malways, I'm always mindful to
say that like I think thiscountry has some of the smartest
people.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Some of the smartest people.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Some of the dumbest too.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I didn't say that, joe, you did.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know, but that's OK , it's my show.
I can say it if I want to.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
But no, we do.
It's just that our systemsdon't allow it right.
It is reactive and it is sickcare, and we all know it.
And as long as providerscontinue to be complicit in it,
it is going to be that way.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And so my goal.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
My why is I want to change how healthcare is
accessed.
That's all I care about.
That is what I live for everysingle day.
Because I see way too manypeople get to me and I'm just a
measly little physical therapist, right, you know, bottom of the
totem pole in the healthcaresphere.
They get to me and they'rereally in bad shape and simple
things make a world ofdifference, right?
(17:22):
All of a sudden they're offstatins.
All of a sudden they're eatingmore vegetables.
All of a sudden theircholesterols come down, they're
sleeping better, they've lost alittle weight.
Because we talked about onething, right, we've got the time
to have those conversations.
And when you work in aninsurance based setting, you
don't, because it is aboutvolume, yes, volume over
(17:43):
everything else.
And and that's the job don't?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
care about you genuinely, genuinely.
If you find a practitioner, adoctor who does, that's
challenge, they don't care aboutyou genuinely.
If you find a practitioner or adoctor who does, that's
wonderful.
They don't always, but it'smore likely.
But to the insurance people,you're a number, yeah, and it's
going to be more than that.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, and the providers do they?
Just their hands are tied.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Their hands are tied because they've got somebody
booked 10 minutes later and theyget bonus based off of customer
satisfaction.
And if you sit for an hourwaiting for an appointment
you're going to be pissed.
So you know they're.
They're in a damned if they doand damned if they don't
situation.
So I try not to fault theproviders as much as possible.
(18:26):
Some are to your point, yeah,just not good, just you know,
basically cashing a check.
But there are a lot of reallypassionate, intelligent people
out there that just can't figureout a way.
And health education in thiscountry is exceptionally
expensive.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
So you've got people who are coming into their
positions in these really kindof quite powerful positions, who
are upside down and wealth.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Right Also just to spend their time thinking about
that, and that's that takes awayfrom you to execute the
practice.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, I mean I consistently tell people not to
go into physical therapy today.
You know, if I've got a highschool student that will observe
with me, I'm like, don't, don'tlike if you're lucky enough to
practice in a setting like this,but it's hard.
It's hard because I don't haveinsurance feeding me patients,
right?
So we have to go find our ownclients and we have to keep them
happy and we have to be reallyunique.
(19:24):
And we spend a lot of time withpeople, so you're absorbing a
lot of people's stuff.
You've got to know how tomanage that, so, um, and not
everybody can, so yeah, so it'san interesting time and space,
and I think what Anchor ishoping to solve for is is
creating that place where peoplecan still work in the way that
they were trained and what theywent to school for in the first
place.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And create some wealth for themselves, sure
Without having to, you know,sell their soul to the devil.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I couldn't agree more .
I'm curious we're getting alittle low on time, but I'd like
to hear about the genesis, thefirst.
As you just begun this, youknow you made the leap, you
opened the doors.
Tell me about the first fewclients that came through and
how that worked out.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, I opened my doors six months before COVID,
so Always a great time to starta business right.
So there was that, so we openedin July of 19, and then
obviously COVID started, and theblessing of COVID for this
situation is real estate becamewidely available.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
And so I took a leap of faith and expanded in August
of 20, unsure of whether or notI'd be the only person in the
fiscal space or not, and it tookus about a year to really get
another.
The new will come right, yeah,yeah.
(20:52):
And so you know that's been aninteresting thing that I think
has changed since COVID.
There's a lot more access totelehealth.
I personally and I'm an N ofone in my opinion means nothing
to most people, but I personallybelieve that we as healthcare
providers have a responsibilityto get people into physical
(21:12):
space with one another.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I agree there is some things with an initial
consultation with telehealth,but beyond that that one-on-one
time is is instrumental.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, I think if you are taking a biomedical approach
, telehealth works just fine,right Cause I can look at labs,
I can look at some images, youknow.
But when we are talking aboutbiopsychosocial and I need to
know, when I bring up like oh,how'd you get here today and you
sit back in your chair a littleweird, or you cross your arms
or maybe you start to shake yourfoot, I need to be able to see
(21:46):
that, right, or I need to knowwhat happens.
I need to feel what happens toyou when I start to have a
challenging conversation, and soI do think that there's a
responsibility of healthcareproviders to get people back.
There's also still just a lotof fear about being out in
community and amongst peoplepost COVID.
So so, yeah, it took us alittle while and I think this
(22:09):
model is very much based off ofreal estate.
Right, it's a we share, we time, share out physical space, and
so a lot of people have theability now to flex virtual
versus in person, and that was asurprise and a hiccup, but the
nice thing is is like we can, wecan adjust with it.
I just try and seek providersto come into this network who,
(22:32):
um, who believe the same thingas me, right, who believe that
we do have a responsibility tobeing in physical space with
somebody.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
But so far, you know, we're growing.
I think, uh, I think we are alittle ahead of the game in
terms of what is happening, um,nationally, from a healthcare
perspective.
With this, like I said, thesehospital systems are losing
primary care doctors hand overfoot and I think these primary
care docs are not making nearlythe money that they used to.
(23:01):
And so I'm saying, look, if I'mnot going to make as much money
, I'm just going to go out andopen up a concierge or a direct
primary care practice.
See one-tenth of the patientsand make money and provide
better care.
So I think we are well set up tobe able to absorb some people
who are currently in systemscontemplating making a move.
(23:25):
So I think we're hopefullypioneers in that regard.
But yeah, it was a doozygetting through COVID.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Well, why don't you tell us about the area that you
serve and how people can get ahold of you?
As this show is growing, we'regetting a lot of new
practitioners and physiciansthat are sharing their
experiences, and I just knowthat this is a resource that I'd
like to make available to them.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Well, thank you, so we are right now in them.
Well, thank you, so we areright now in Cincinnati.
We have two locations, and soto find us online is
anchorsincycomA-N-C-H-O-R-C-I-N-C-Ycom, and
you can find us on Instagram,facebook, linkedin, anchor
Wellness Cincy on all three ofthose, and I'm always reachable
(24:12):
by email, sarah with an H atanchorcincycom.
But my goal has always been toreally grow.
Like I said, like I want tochange how healthcare is
accessed, I want to make it moreefficient for consumers and I
want to make sure that providersare thriving, not surviving,
and so you know our goal is tobe to have an anchor wellness
center everywhere you look rightLike I would love to have one
(24:34):
regionally in Indianapolis andColumbus or down into Lexington.
So you know those are whatwe're looking for for next moves
, but you know we we would lookfor somebody like me who has a
practice and really believes intrying to to raise the ceiling
on what our potential is andwants and believes in
multidisciplinary care.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Well, sarah, I appreciate you joining us today
and, as you're developing andgrowing, I'd love to have you
back to continue theconversation.
I want to thank all thelisteners that have made this
show increasingly more popularand effective.
We're building a community foryou and, sarah, you're now part
of that community.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Ah, I feel so blessed .
Thank you, thanks for having meJoe.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Well, this has been another episode of the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine,and we will see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.