August 22, 2025 • 43 mins
A simple greeting card with a painted rose and a profound quote by Anaïs Nin became the catalyst for Megan Edge's transformation: "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." This powerful insight revealed the connection between her chronic physical pain and the emotional patterns she'd been maintaining in her life and relationships.
In this deeply moving conversation, Megan shares how expressive arts became her pathway to healing and ultimately led to her contribution to the bestselling book "Expressive Arts: The Ultimate Creative Guide to Transforming Stress." Drawing from her extensive background as a counselor, metaphysical practitioner, and nature-connected healer, she illuminates how creative processes help us bypass our conscious resistance and tap into our body's innate wisdom.
We explore the fascinating intersection between creativity and wellness, examining how photography, writing, gardening, and even foraging can become powerful therapeutic tools. Megan reveals how photographing heart shapes she discovered in nature began as a personal healing practice and eventually evolved into her Heart's Journey Oracle Cards and guidebook.
The conversation takes a powerful turn as Megan courageously shares her personal journey of following her intuition through a difficult marriage transition, highlighting how vulnerability and emotional authenticity are essential components of true healing. She offers compelling insights into how traditional medicine often addresses symptoms while holistic approaches can address root causes by considering emotional, spiritual, and energetic dimensions alongside physical symptoms.
Whether you're navigating physical pain, emotional challenges, or simply seeking more authentic self-expression, this episode offers practical wisdom about harnessing your creative impulses as pathways to wholeness and health. Try Megan's simple yet profound suggestion today: do something creative, anything at all, and notice how it feels in your body. Your healing journey might begin with a single creative act.
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On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Expressive-Arts-Ultimate-Creative-Transforming/dp/1961493780
Amazon Author Page: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Megan-Edge/author/B01C3EDMR8
https://meganedgehealing.thrivecart.com/expressive-arts/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I'm super excited.
Today we have back for thesecond time, megan Edge, and if
you have listened to her before,I will tell you again about her
amazing background.
And if you haven't, I encourageyou to listen to the first
(00:23):
episode we did a couple monthsago.
And what an amazing woman.
So since 2007, megan Edge hasbeen helping people through her
counseling services, with afocus on empowerment and deep
healing of emotional, energeticand physical trauma.
After three decades of study inthe metaphysical fields of
(00:44):
astral projections, runes,stones, dream work, tarot
chakras, eft, auras, angeltherapy and past lives, and
completing various certificateprograms, along with degrees in
social work, women's study andgeology, she's been named a
master healer, a generationalforager, and Megan has ethically
(01:06):
harvested from the forest sincea kid.
Amazing stories about that fromthat first episode and now,
through her shot Beyond theGarden Gate, she shares Mother
Nature's healing bounty with herteas, salves and tinctures.
She's also the creator of theHeart's Journey, healing Hearts,
oracle Guards and Guidebook,and she's got a website.
(01:26):
But today we're here to talkabout a book that she has
participated in, and it's calledExpressive Arts the Ultimate
Creative Guide to TransformingStress.
And this just matches rightalong with everything, megan.
Without further ado, welcomeback to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Thank you so much, Joe.
I'm really excited to be here.
It's so interesting when Iexperience that when you go back
, I do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
When people ask me for a bio, I'm like, well, what
do you want me to focus on?
Because I've got you know allthese different worlds that I've
lived my life in and I thinkwhen you're talking about, you
know people's personalempowerment.
A lot of times we get lost inwhere we're at and the struggles
that we're in and we feel likeI'm not doing anything, I'm
(02:30):
stuck, I can't get anywhere.
But if you just take a secondlook back a little bit, you're
like oh wow, I've been climbingthis big old mountain one step
at a time.
Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's so true, and actually that just reminds me
that years and years ago I usedto help people write their
resumes, and part of thatprocess is helping a person
remember all the things thatthey have done in their lives
that have value and thatcontribute to who they are and
why someone would want to hirethem.
(03:00):
And there's so many parts of aperson's life that they don't
necessarily appreciate makesthem unique or gives them a
different perspective or a newway of looking at it.
And with something as simplebut also important as a resume
or a CV, being able to pullthose skill sets out and then
communicate them in a way thatis understandable by somebody
(03:23):
else is a really important partof that process of defining who
we are.
And so many times after we'dcompleted a person's resume,
they'd look at it.
Then they'd say exactly what Ijust said who is this person?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
But it's them.
Well, it's so funny that youknow people think that to get a
job, the only experience thatqualifies you are previous jobs.
But you know, I never graduatedcollege but I work with doctors
on a peer-to-peer level.
Your life's experience is justthat and you know we can take it
(04:00):
and do with it as we see fit.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Absolutely, and the life experience.
That is the learning.
That's where the wisdom comesfrom.
You know, saying that youworked at McDonald's for six
months or you were an assistantsomebody for a year, that
doesn't tell anyone anythingabout you, right, about your
life and the parts of your lifethat you're able to acknowledge
(04:23):
as being significant, even ifthey seem minor.
That's a whole different levelof communicating with another
person who you are and howyou're showing up in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So I'm really excited.
You know you've already writtenmany things and you created
these oracle cards and you knowyou're a creative person.
As, as it is um me working withthe gardens of hope, we're
starting to um work on some arttype projects with rock painting
(04:56):
and and even just the gardensthemselves I consider to be an
artwork.
Absolutely, I really believethat art is a healing tool, that
I really believe that mosthealing comes from inside, comes
from your own body just puttingitself back together.
(05:17):
We're given the ability to dothat and we we rely on doctors
and drugs so much to do thesethings for us, but the truth is
they don't do it for us.
They cover things up, they openup doors, they they make it
possible for us to do itourselves.
But art and music and andhorticultural therapy, all these
(05:43):
things that we're talking about, they, I believe, sort of put
us in a place, just likemeditation or prayer or whatever
.
You let your guard down, youconnect with yourself on a level
that kind of just lets it flow.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, that's exactly it.
You get out of your own waybecause we are our own worst
enemies, and especially when itcomes to our health and
well-being, mainly because we'vebeen taught to give away our
health sovereignty to astructure that is profit-driven.
Let's be honest yeah, so thereisn't a lot of impetus in
(06:24):
mainstream medicine for thepatient to become well not at
all and there's certainly not alot of education around
empowering ourselves.
You know, we don't go to thedoctor and say, hey, how can you
help me change my life?
We go to the doctor and saythis hurts, and the doctor says
here's a prescription right, letme treat you so that I can keep
on treating you.
(06:44):
Yes, yeah, and, and I know thatthat's not always why a person
goes into medicine.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
It's not sinister necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
No but.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is the nature of the beast, and so something like
the expressive arts and thisamazing book that I was invited
to be a co-author in, wasinvited to be a co-author in it
really is allowing and helpingto educate people, demonstrating
to people how important theholistic approach to wholeness
and wellness is.
And for me personally, mychapter is chapter 18, and it's
(07:16):
titled the Heart's Journey toHealing and Wholeness from
Chronic Pain to Self-Love.
Chronic pain is an indicatorthat the individual is not
loving themselves at that level,and we can look at inflammation
and we can look at markers andwe can look at all of those
things at the physical level,but that physical pain is the
(07:39):
body's attempt to communicatewith the individual, with the
host.
Hey.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I'm over here.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I'm over here and hey , you're not addressing these
circumstances.
And for me, the journey wasthis aha moment that I had
standing in a metaphysical shophere in Victoria BC where I live
, and I was looking at a card.
It was just like a littlegreeting card and on the outside
of the card was this beautifulpainted rose and the rose was
(08:08):
tight in a bud but it was juststarting to unfurl.
Nice, can I read it from you?
Yes, please, absolutely Okay.
This is how it all started andthis actually ties in with the
heart's journey, because theheart's journey Oracle cards,
hearts that I found in naturewas my symbol.
I believed from the universewhen I said please show me a
(08:29):
symbol that I'm following myheart.
Wow, through thistransformative experience of
realizing that the man I wasmarried to, we were no longer
together on the journey, wow.
Wow.
So it all ties into it.
But so I say the story my storystarts with.
How does she know?
How does Anais Nin knowprecisely how I feel?
(08:53):
Before I even know.
All these years I've asked why?
Why am I in such pain?
Why does my body hurt, ache,feel numb and tight all the time
?
I stand in front of a rack ofgreeting cards in a local
metaphysical shop.
The shop is full of customersbrowsing the shelves and seeking
answers to solve their problems.
(09:14):
In a world of crystals, oraclecards, candles and incense.
I'm drawn to a card with apainted rose just beginning to
(09:38):
open.
I like the pink hues and theWow.
And the day came when the riskto remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk ittook to blossom.
That quote, joe, changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
More accurately.
I let that quote change my life.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right, because I read that and I felt something just
go like clunk in my body, adefining moment.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, it was like this lightning bolt of
recognition where I realized, ohmy God, all the pain I'm
carrying in my body is likebeing that tight little bud and
instead of naturally allowingmyself to open and blossom and
express and be in the world inthis beautiful being that I am,
I was denying myself that and Iwas denying the world that.
(10:28):
The energy it took to stay tight.
That's where the pain wascoming from, and with that
understanding, I could start tounweave all the things that I
had woven together to keepmyself safe and protected, which
was creating all the pain.
And that journey began withthat quote.
(10:49):
And then it took all of mycourage and, some days, all of
my vulnerability to realize thatI couldn't go backwards, right.
I couldn't go back into the bud.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We never can.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
No, we never can, you can't?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No, no, it doesn't.
And for me, part of thatjourney was the realization that
part of who I was keepingmyself tight as a bud for was
for my husband at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I had fit myself into his expectation of me and I had
allowed that to become who Iwas, and his expectation of me
was that I would never change,that I would always stay the
same, and he even said thatthose were his words in one of
our many exhaustiveconversations over the next
couple of years, which was youcan't change.
I want you to be the woman Imarried forever.
Wow.
(11:47):
I was 27, when we got married.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's funny.
I always tell people you'reeither going forward or you're
going backwards.
And if you're going backwards,it's generally because you're
not doing anything, because theworld's turning, you can't not
move.
You're either going to go oneway or you're going to go the
(12:10):
other way.
And the other thing is thatword vulnerability.
I think that we just did amen's circle a couple of weeks
ago and that came up as thepower of vulnerability.
It's, it's weird because, uh,you know, as I'm doing more work
on myself, I get all emotionaleasier and easier and I'm like
(12:32):
whoa, where are these tearscoming from?
I just turned into a big oldcry baby all the time.
And it's not that I'm sad, Ijust, you know, I just feel
emotion.
I just I don't even know whatit is.
Sometimes you hear music andtears start coming.
I'm like what the heck is this?
Yeah, but there's somethingabout, like what you're talking
about, all that energy to holdsomething back.
(12:53):
Answer is just letting go well,let yourself, start to unfold,
let yourself be this thing thatit's trying to be.
It doesn't truly even take aneffort.
It takes just to be able torelax.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And for me, the expressive arts part of it.
Like you said earlier, I am avery creative person and I feel
(13:28):
like now in my life, at 56,everything I do is a creative
process, Whether I'm dryingmushrooms that I just went out
into the forest and picked andI'm thinking what am I going to
make with these mushrooms?
Am I going to powder them?
Am I going to cook them andfreeze them?
Am I going to dry them?
How am I going to use themmedicinally that whole process,
that whole thought process, is acreative expression when we
look at our health and ourwell-being.
(13:49):
And in this book.
There's 22 authors from aroundthe world who've contributed to
this book.
And each of us shares a story ofwhen our creative process
became the healing modality thatwe now share and teach.
And then we share a tool at theend of the chapter, and the
tool that I teach is about howto create a sacred space for an
(14:10):
oracle card reading.
You can tap into that innerknowing and that inner wisdom
that you have.
I never thought of myself as anartist, particularly.
I can still draw really greatstick figures and I look at my
daughters.
My daughters are incredibleartists.
They are amazing.
I don't think it came from menecessarily.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
All right, I would be a great artist, as about a
three-year-old, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
But the creativity the creativity that I like to
think that came from me becauseI'm always engaged in that
creative process.
So where I went and how thisall ties in to the healing
journey, to the work that I do,to nature, to the Oracle cards
and all of it, is that when Istarted to see these hearts in
nature, like little hearts instones on the beach or the shape
(15:00):
of clouds or in trees or leaves, I started to take photographs
of them and I'd always lovedphotography.
I especially loved microphotography, and I tried
numerous times in my life tolearn how to be a photographer
and it never really took holduntil I decided that it was okay
.
I gave myself permission that'sa key point.
(15:21):
I gave myself permission tojust take pictures of these
hearts with my phone, as I foundthem Right, and so the quality
of these photographs, I mean.
Here's an example of one ofthem.
This is a beautiful Ousmane,it's a type of lichen.
Wow, a little heart shape inthe middle of it.
You know, here's a cloud I loveit wow I'm not a professional
(15:45):
photographer.
Here's one that's a littleheart-shaped rock.
I love it, but I can see things.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I see things differently than other people
yeah, yeah, that's really thekey to photography.
My wife is a great photographer.
I go around, I just clickbuttons and you know, sometimes
I get lucky and catch a good onewhere she just like every time
she clicks something like, well,how'd you get that?
You know it's, it's, it's, it'san eye, it's a.
It's definitely a gift.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's an intuitive process, right, and that's
that's the whole thing with withthe expressive arts, it isn't.
It's tapping into yourintuition.
Whether you're dancing oryou're painting, or you're
taking photographs or you'recreating meditations, whatever
it is, you're creating gardens,it's all part of that intuitive
creative spark that we all have.
(16:32):
How does that tie intowell-being?
Because what better way isthere to help manage and
navigate stress?
And I use those wordsparticularly, rather than deal
with stress, Because dealingwith stress is a very, you know,
task-oriented,masculine-oriented way of
(16:53):
achieving something.
Achieving results.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It's actually kind of bullshit really.
I mean to be frank, stress ispart of life and you know it's
like sailing.
You know you're never going tomaster the ocean, you're just
going to try to navigate it, tryto keep yourself afloat.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's right, and I love that word navigate.
I have a client right now whois in.
She has stage four kidneycancer and she's in hospice
right now and a lot of peopleare talking about how she's
dying of cancer and I keepreminding her look, you're still
alive, so you're living withthis cancer.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Can testify to that one.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, exactly, you know.
And I say to her you can walkout of hospice.
People do leave hospice alive.
It can happen many times.
And part of her creativeprocess right now is writing her
book, her next book, Nice.
It's a beautiful book and I'mhelping her to edit it and to do
the word crafting oh fantastic,I'm also an editor as well.
(17:57):
Just one more thing I do.
Just one more thing I do.
And her book is all aboutletters and it's called.
It's called, If you Only Knew,A Healing Book of Letters.
And these are letters she'swritten over her lifetime to
various people, places,experiences and using.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
There's a lost art.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Exactly Well, and that's part of this book is
reintroducing people to the lostart of letter writing, and then
also using letter writing as atherapeutic tool, and also the
destruction of letters that nolonger serve a purpose or that
you're ready to release theenergy of Powerful work.
Yeah, I love it and this iswork that she and I are doing
(18:36):
while she's living with cancerin hospice right.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
She's probably forgetting that she's dying too.
Huh, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Aging in a creative process.
So I would say, for anybody whohas been given any kind of
diagnosis and cancer is one ofthose diagnoses, as you well and
intimately know is just one ofthose devastating oh my gosh.
And the immediate response isyou've got to start taking chemo
and you've got to start takingradiation or we're going to cut
it out or whatever.
It's very drastic yeah.
(19:04):
Yeah, it's very aggressive.
It's very aggressive.
It would be so fascinating andso wonderful if an oncologist,
upon delivering this news, ifthe first words out of his or
her mouth were so what kind ofcreative process would you like
to?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
engage.
I love it.
Yeah, you never know.
I mean, I've been meeting a lotof oncologists and some of
these integrative folks have gotsome pretty good tricks up
their sleeves.
So I think that there's as muchas the standard of care side of
things is rigid and strong andoverpowering.
(19:41):
There's a handful of rebelssort of breaking free and seeing
some truth on the other side ofit.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Absolutely, and it's so beautiful to watch that.
And there's amazingdocumentaries that are being
produced right now, looking atthis phenomenon of cancer, for
example, and then differentplaces in the world's response
to it, beliefs about it,research on it, understanding
what it is, and then looking atalternative.
(20:07):
I mean, we call themalternatives, but really in many
other cultures, the primarycare is right.
Let's start counselingimmediately.
What are you carrying in yourbody?
Anger-wise, trauma-wise,belief-wise, grief-wise?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Relationships like yeah, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And you know it's interesting because when I was
in that first marriage and heand I, we met when we were
teenagers, we were best friends,we had wonderful beautiful
times.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I had one of those too, yeah beautiful times.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
We created two beautiful daughters.
I mean, you know it wasn't likeit was all bad by any stretch
of the imagination, but I doremember, as I was coming into
this process of beginning torecognize my own need for
healing at a really deep level,and that part of the pain I was
carrying was the dysfunction inthe relationship.
I remember feeling intuitivelyif I don't do something about
(21:04):
this, I will get cancer.
And of all the diseases I couldmanifest, all the ways my body
could tell me that it wasn'thappy, that things were not
going well.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right, right, right.
That's about the most dramaticone.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And it's not that I wanted it at all but I remember
that little voice at the back ofmy head saying listen, you've
got to change something aboutthis relationship, something
about your relationship withyourself.
You have to start taking careof yourself, or else this is how
it's going to show up for you,and then that will be your
(21:37):
journey.
And I mean it's always ajourney, right, Right, it hasn't
been my journey to have acancer diagnosis.
I've never had cancer that.
I'm aware of.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Should it stay that way the rest of your life?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Instantaneously heal all sorts of things, yeah, but
having worked with many, manyclients for whom that is their
journey or has been theirjourney, I feel just so
passionate about helping peoplerecognize the importance of
holistic health Agreed.
On every level, and that's wherethe food as medicine comes in,
(22:10):
that's where nature as medicinecomes in, that's where just
taking care of yourself andasking questions outside the box
about the why of this, and whenI hear some of the beautiful
things that you're doing on yourown healing journey with this,
I want that for everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Me too.
That's part of the purpose ofthis podcast and building a
community around holisticwellness, you know, and all
these different facets andthings I never even thought of
sometimes.
And you know I'm grateful thatyou've become part of the
community, coming back, and youactually sat in one of Dr
Hoffman's calls and you knowyou'd get able to get a taste.
(22:50):
One day you're going to comeout and see our gardens and
maybe forest, and you know, butthat's what it's all about is
sharing our experiences and, andyou know, we're all teachers
and we're all students andunless we don't do anything and
yes, it's all up to us well, Ireally would like to hear a
(23:11):
little more about your chapter.
And you know we talk aboutexpressive arts and unfurling
your potential and all of this.
But let's get into like, whatsort of?
You know, are we talking aboutpainting?
Are we talking about music?
How do we get into this?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
For me personally.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, no, just as you shared with the chapter in the
book.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right.
Well, in my chapter, what I'msharing is that, that moment of
recognition like the oh my gosh,this is what I'm doing.
And then what happened when Iarrived home that day?
Okay and said to my husband ohmy gosh, I had this incredible
epiphany.
You know, let let's do thistogether.
(23:59):
Let's blossom together.
And the response that Ireceived was not what I was
expecting.
This is somebody that I'd spentso much of my youth with, and my
20s and my 30s, and I thoughtthat I knew him and then I
discovered that I didn't.
(24:20):
And if I can read a little bitmore, I'll share it, oh, please
yeah yeah, I write.
I can't wait to get home andshare this epiphany with my
husband.
I always take care of hisemotional needs, but it's time
for things to change.
Later that evening, after Imake dinner, clean the kitchen
and put our daughters to bed,I'm ready to relax and tell him
about my day and my newfoundunderstanding.
(24:40):
I can't wait to show him mygreeting card and read the quote
together.
I know he's going to be asmoved as I am.
It turns out I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I don't see any reason to change anything about
our lives, he tells me, leavethe past in the past.
What do you need to rehash?
Everything that's rich Comingfrom the man who only lives in
(25:14):
the past and is afraid ofplanning for the.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
He sees the look on my face, he realizes I'm serious
and he backpedals.
I promise to be a betterhusband.
I'll help more around the houseand stop leaving my dirty socks
on the floor.
I'll look after the girls whenI get home from work so you can
have a break.
I'll do anything you need me todo.
Just promise me one thing Don'tchange so much that you realize
(25:39):
you don't need me.
Just don't leave me.
This isn't the first time I'veheard this mantra of promises.
I must have absorbed AeneasNin's words into my very cells
because I feel an unsettlingemotion.
I think it's distrust.
I realize my husband's promiseshave an emptiness to them.
(26:00):
There's a pattern he says thewords but fails to follow up
with lasting actions.
His love comes with thecondition that I don't question
his motives or his behaviors.
This is it, I think to myself.
This is the moment his controlof me begins to slip, because I
can see through hismanipulations.
(26:21):
I can see what he's so afraidof.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Wow, that's heavy.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yes, and from that moment, you see, the gift that I
gave myself was that I startedto look at my life.
I started to notice certainpatterns, behaviors in myself in
response to him.
And he was just coming from ascared place.
(26:50):
I get that Nobody wants theirlife to suddenly be upheaved.
Oh, no, I'm sorry, all of thosechanges, yeah, so I go on to say
I see red flags within mymarriage trying to get my
attention my husband's emotionalaffairs, his addiction to
spending our money on hiscollections, and his controlling
and manipulative behaviors.
(27:10):
And the question I had to askmyself was this how have I
allowed these behaviors topersist?
And, more importantly, why?
How have I unwillingly orwillingly participated?
And, more importantly, why?
How have I unwillingly orwillingly participated?
How is it possible that I findmyself in an emotionally and
financially abusive marriage?
This must be the emotionalsource of my pain.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Wow, that's powerful because you took ownership.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Exactly, exactly.
But here's the wake-up call.
This is this moment.
Oh, where are we now?
Right?
So there's a car accident,which was also a pivotal point
to this whole story.
Okay, and what I had done is Ihad said to the universe I think
I need a wake-up call, like Ican't see the way through, I
(27:56):
can't see the forest for thetrees.
Something needs to happenthat's going to pull the rug out
from underneath me, and in somepeople's cases it's a diagnosis
of cancer that stops you inyour tracks and you go.
Wait, I have to look at my lifenow, right For me.
When the car accident happened,I thought that was the wake-up
call, because I'd never been ina car accident before.
(28:18):
We were rear-ended.
It's a whole series of events.
We were rear-ended and I wasthe one that got injured.
My husband and my children werein the car too.
They were okay, thank goodness.
And so I thought, right, well,this is the thing that stops me,
because I can't be Wonder Womananymore.
With my injuries, I can't doall the things that I used to do
.
But that wasn't the wake-upcall.
(28:45):
It's a few weeks after theaccident and my husband comes
home from work grinning.
You'll never guess who poked meon Facebook.
I go through the list of ourhigh school friends but come up
empty-handed and a littleexasperated.
I have three pots on the stove,a two-year-old wearing nothing
but the Cheerios she's justdumped all over the floor and
herself and my neck is killingme.
Read the room.
I want to shout at him here.
I'll show you.
He says as he opens hisFacebook page At my husband's
(29:08):
insistence I don't have aFacebook account, you don't have
the time.
He says All our friends are thesame anyways, you don't need
your own account.
Oh my god, that's my firstboyfriend from high school.
Oh my god, that's my firstboyfriend from high school.
How on earth my heart dropsinto my stomach when I see the
photo of him and his wife.
That should have been me.
(29:29):
Wait what?
Where did that come from?
I'm perfectly happy in mymarriage.
I intend to spend the rest ofmy life with my husband, grow
old with him and live happilyever after, don't I?
Aren't we going to save ourmarriage together?
I don't want this.
This can't be happening.
I don't need this.
You should message him.
I hear the words, but I don'tunderstand what he means.
(29:52):
Whatever, for I say Well, toclear away any lingering
feelings you still have for him,it'll be good for both of us,
if you do like, how it's beengood for me to reconnect with
all my past crushes.
But there are no lingeringfeelings.
I loved him once, but that waslong ago.
I'm not holding a torch for him.
Of this I am very aware, atleast not for the boy he was
(30:14):
then.
The man he is now, I don't know.
Yet.
I realize my husband is stilltalking to me.
I smell the now overcookedbroccoli and realize my daughter
is no longer in the kitchen.
I follow the trail of Cheeriosinto the living room to find her
.
I need a distraction.
I can't deal with this rightnow.
It's midnight and the house isasleep, except for me.
(30:37):
I quietly get out of bed andhead to the kitchen.
I open the family computer.
My husband's left his Facebookpage open, just in case you
change your mind, he told me.
I look at my old boyfriend'sprofile, feeling deliciously
daring and equally terrified.
I feel an unmistakable pull ofenergy, vast and insistent.
(30:58):
So this is my wake-up call, theone thing I cannot ignore, make
sense of or dismiss.
Now, what?
Now, what?
Indeed, with nothing to lose, Iask the universe Show me a sign
, a sign so obvious I can't missit.
A sign so that I will know I amfollowing my heart above all
(31:19):
other voices and making mychoices from a place of
integrity and love.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Healing comes from so many different places.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah , comes from so many different
places.
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah.
And and from that did you endup reaching out to him, or did?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
you just realize what you needed to do.
I am married to him.
Oh my God I've been for thelast 15 years Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Wow yeah, holy cow man, your intuition is quite a
guiding light for you.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It is, and you know, here's the thing about listening
to one's intuition.
It isn't always easy.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Our intuition tells us the things we need to know,
but then it's our job to chooseor not to choose to follow that
intuition.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And it's often not what we want to hear.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
It is often not what we want to hear.
And for the next two years,after that realization and that
reconnection, at my thenhusband's assistance, so many
things changed, obviously, butso many things had to be healed
in that process and they had tobe questioned in that process,
(32:34):
and I had to learn to speak mytruth, to stand up for myself.
And most of that time was spentboth with myself and my now
husband desperately fightingagainst what was showing up for
us Right.
And if you've been in thatsituation, I get it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I've gone down in my quest to live the life I'm here
to live.
I've done things that I justwas not going to do.
But when my goal and my desirewas to do what I'm here to do, I
(33:13):
couldn't avoid those things.
And now I embrace them.
But when you're walking up intoit, you're going this is not
what I want to do and I don'tlike this, but I have to do it
for whatever reason.
And you do what you need to doif you have integrity.
And then you find yourself it'slike oh wow, I wouldn't have
(33:36):
ever discovered this world orthis purpose or this talent or
whatever, had I not, you know,just stuck to what I should have
done.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, that's exactly it, and the thing that happens I
know from personal experienceand also all the clients that
I've worked with over the yearswhen those blinders fall off,
whatever they are for, and Ialways think of it like a horse
that has the blinders on so thatit can't get distracted by the
things that are on the sideright it's a great analogy when
those blinders fall off and youstart looking around and
(34:06):
realizing, huh, there are thingsthat I have been ignoring.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
And the things that I've been ignoring are the cause
of my pain, my disease, myinjury, whatever it is the way
that the body is trying to helpyou get back on track, and I
know that when a person is stuck, it's usually because there
aren't the things yet in placefor them to move forward.
(34:34):
Got it the things yet in placefor them to move forward.
So that being stuck keeps youin a safe, comfortable place.
Even if that comfortableness isdiscomfort and dis-ease, I love
it.
Until everything is in placeright.
I was prepared to go through theincredible, excruciating pain
that I was in after my caraccident and I'd already been
living with chronic pain,fibromyalgia, for decades and
(34:58):
all kinds of other, a host ofother health issues for a very
long time.
So I was familiar with pain,but this was a different level
of pain that I was in after thecar accident.
But I was prepared to gothrough the physiotherapy, take
the medication.
I was on Demerol for the painand I was just ready to, you
know, shoulder forward and keepgoing and get back to being
(35:20):
Wonder Woman.
And when this showed up, it hitme at a deep physical level in
a way that I had neverexperienced before and there was
no going back.
There was no going back even ifmy then husband and I had been
able to somehow cross thatbridge over all the water that
(35:41):
was already under it, it neverwould have been the same.
It wouldn't have, and itwouldn't have been the same for
him nor for me.
By him I mean my former husband.
And here's the other point ofit.
In any relationship, joe,there's two people participating
.
We get there together and Iremember sitting in counseling
with my then husband and hebelieves he's desperately trying
(36:04):
to save the marriage.
I'm trying to understand how wegot to that point in the
marriage.
That's what I said to thecounselor If this marriage is
saved, okay.
But before that can happen Ineed to understand how and why
we got to this place together.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And considering that it was my then husband who kept
insisting that I reconnect withthis old boyfriend, for whom I
truly had no residual feelingsat all, he must have known on
some level.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
He knew, he did know.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
He knew his own unhappiness.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And he knew his own inability at the time to do
anything about it Right.
So he put it on me and I saidokay, as the stronger one in
this relationship, I will be theone.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Somebody's got to take that step, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, and it's not an easy step to take, but it's
also a very empowering step,exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Well it never comes without discomfort, that's for
sure, or at least it doesn'tseem to.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Well, sure, and like it wasn't a breeze, you know,
there was a lot, of, a lot oflong, painful conversations into
the night.
There was a lot of a lot ofthings that came up for me
physically, health wise, as Iwas processing all of it and
really getting clear on who do Iwant to be in the world and how
(37:29):
do I want to show up in theworld, and is this the person
who can support me and walk withme in order to do that?
And, by his own admission, hewas not that man to walk with me
.
And when my now husband showedup, there was just something
there that I didn't want at thetime, but I did.
(37:53):
I just didn't know.
That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Absolutely.
But you were putting yourselfin a place where you could
understand that.
Well, listen, as I suspectedwe're going to, we breezed
through our block of time and Ireally want you know, this book
sounds fascinating, and that'syou know.
Really, I don't mean just, andthat's you know.
Really I don't mean just, butthat's your chapter 18 out of
(38:16):
how many chapters?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
22.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
It's amazing.
So what I'll do, joe, is I'llsend a link to the author page
on well, send a link to myauthor page because it's listed
there, but also the books pageon Amazon.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And I'll create a coupon that.
I can send to your audience andso if anybody wants to purchase
the book through me, I willsign it and I'm happy to do that
on the personal, or they canpurchase it directly through
Amazon, and that helps all of usauthors too, because every
purchase brings us up.
We are number one in sixdifferent categories in health
(38:54):
and wellness and self-help, andempowerment and stress, and I
think on the launch week we werenumber five on Amazon for this
book.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Well, I love it.
Sign me up.
I will certainly purchase acopy and have your signature on
it and send me what I need to do.
And I'm tickled.
I think this is fantastic andwe'll put all that stuff into
the show notes so everybody cansee it.
And, megan, this is I guessyou're you're parting shot.
(39:23):
What's that mean?
It sounds like an amazing,powerful book.
I I look forward to moreconversations with you.
Every time we get in here, it'sa easier conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I love it.
I love this connection thatwe've created on and off the
podcast and I'm really lookingforward to coming down and
seeing what you've created andin the future, as a parting, I
want to bring it back to thisidea of the expressive arts.
And what is that?
And really what it is is howyou choose to express yourself
(39:58):
creatively, and if all you candraw is stick figures, then draw
stick figures.
You know, you don't have to doit for anybody else, you do it
for yourself.
And when I first started takingphotographs of these hearts as
I was going through this wholeprocess, I just kept them for
myself.
I had no intention of sharingthem and I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
They're magnificent.
I mean, I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, thank you.
Yes, me as well, but that's thepoint.
You know, I did it for me.
And then they became somethingthat helped other people, and
that's a beautiful thing.
If it should happen or you knowwhat I could have just kept
them on my phone and had themjust be for me, and that would
have been perfect as well.
So do something today whenyou're listening to this
beautiful podcast.
(40:43):
Do something creative today,anything.
And just notice how you feel,feel it in your body, see what
happens.
Why not?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I love it.
That's a beautiful, a beautifulset of words and, Megan, I'm
just so tickled and I lookforward to having you back to
continue this conversation andto the listeners.
I'm super grateful for all thesupport we're getting.
This podcast continues to growand thank you for all your
support and we will see you nexttime.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I'm super excited.
Today we have back for thesecond time, megan Edge, and if
you have listened to her before,I will tell you again about her
amazing background.
And if you haven't, I encourageyou to listen to the first
(00:23):
episode we did a couple monthsago.
And what an amazing woman.
So since 2007, megan Edge hasbeen helping people through her
counseling services, with afocus on empowerment and deep
healing of emotional, energeticand physical trauma.
After three decades of study inthe metaphysical fields of
(00:44):
astral projections, runes,stones, dream work, tarot
chakras, eft, auras, angeltherapy and past lives, and
completing various certificateprograms, along with degrees in
social work, women's study andgeology, she's been named a
master healer, a generationalforager, and Megan has ethically
(01:06):
harvested from the forest sincea kid.
Amazing stories about that fromthat first episode and now,
through her shot Beyond theGarden Gate, she shares Mother
Nature's healing bounty with herteas, salves and tinctures.
She's also the creator of theHeart's Journey, healing Hearts,
oracle Guards and Guidebook,and she's got a website.
(01:26):
But today we're here to talkabout a book that she has
participated in, and it's calledExpressive Arts the Ultimate
Creative Guide to TransformingStress.
And this just matches rightalong with everything, megan.
Without further ado, welcomeback to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Thank you so much, Joe.
I'm really excited to be here.
It's so interesting when Iexperience that when you go back
, I do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
When people ask me for a bio, I'm like, well, what
do you want me to focus on?
Because I've got you know allthese different worlds that I've
lived my life in and I thinkwhen you're talking about, you
know people's personalempowerment.
A lot of times we get lost inwhere we're at and the struggles
that we're in and we feel likeI'm not doing anything, I'm
(02:30):
stuck, I can't get anywhere.
But if you just take a secondlook back a little bit, you're
like oh wow, I've been climbingthis big old mountain one step
at a time.
Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's so true, and actually that just reminds me
that years and years ago I usedto help people write their
resumes, and part of thatprocess is helping a person
remember all the things thatthey have done in their lives
that have value and thatcontribute to who they are and
why someone would want to hirethem.
(03:00):
And there's so many parts of aperson's life that they don't
necessarily appreciate makesthem unique or gives them a
different perspective or a newway of looking at it.
And with something as simplebut also important as a resume
or a CV, being able to pullthose skill sets out and then
communicate them in a way thatis understandable by somebody
(03:23):
else is a really important partof that process of defining who
we are.
And so many times after we'dcompleted a person's resume,
they'd look at it.
Then they'd say exactly what Ijust said who is this person?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
But it's them.
Well, it's so funny that youknow people think that to get a
job, the only experience thatqualifies you are previous jobs.
But you know, I never graduatedcollege but I work with doctors
on a peer-to-peer level.
Your life's experience is justthat and you know we can take it
(04:00):
and do with it as we see fit.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Absolutely, and the life experience.
That is the learning.
That's where the wisdom comesfrom.
You know, saying that youworked at McDonald's for six
months or you were an assistantsomebody for a year, that
doesn't tell anyone anythingabout you, right, about your
life and the parts of your lifethat you're able to acknowledge
(04:23):
as being significant, even ifthey seem minor.
That's a whole different levelof communicating with another
person who you are and howyou're showing up in the world.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So I'm really excited.
You know you've already writtenmany things and you created
these oracle cards and you knowyou're a creative person.
As, as it is um me working withthe gardens of hope, we're
starting to um work on some arttype projects with rock painting
(04:56):
and and even just the gardensthemselves I consider to be an
artwork.
Absolutely, I really believethat art is a healing tool, that
I really believe that mosthealing comes from inside, comes
from your own body just puttingitself back together.
(05:17):
We're given the ability to dothat and we we rely on doctors
and drugs so much to do thesethings for us, but the truth is
they don't do it for us.
They cover things up, they openup doors, they they make it
possible for us to do itourselves.
But art and music and andhorticultural therapy, all these
(05:43):
things that we're talking about, they, I believe, sort of put
us in a place, just likemeditation or prayer or whatever
.
You let your guard down, youconnect with yourself on a level
that kind of just lets it flow.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Well, that's exactly it.
You get out of your own waybecause we are our own worst
enemies, and especially when itcomes to our health and
well-being, mainly because we'vebeen taught to give away our
health sovereignty to astructure that is profit-driven.
Let's be honest yeah, so thereisn't a lot of impetus in
(06:24):
mainstream medicine for thepatient to become well not at
all and there's certainly not alot of education around
empowering ourselves.
You know, we don't go to thedoctor and say, hey, how can you
help me change my life?
We go to the doctor and saythis hurts, and the doctor says
here's a prescription right, letme treat you so that I can keep
on treating you.
(06:44):
Yes, yeah, and, and I know thatthat's not always why a person
goes into medicine.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
It's not sinister necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
No but.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
It's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
It is the nature of the beast, and so something like
the expressive arts and thisamazing book that I was invited
to be a co-author in, wasinvited to be a co-author in it
really is allowing and helpingto educate people, demonstrating
to people how important theholistic approach to wholeness
and wellness is.
And for me personally, mychapter is chapter 18, and it's
(07:16):
titled the Heart's Journey toHealing and Wholeness from
Chronic Pain to Self-Love.
Chronic pain is an indicatorthat the individual is not
loving themselves at that level,and we can look at inflammation
and we can look at markers andwe can look at all of those
things at the physical level,but that physical pain is the
(07:39):
body's attempt to communicatewith the individual, with the
host.
Hey.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I'm over here.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I'm over here and hey , you're not addressing these
circumstances.
And for me, the journey wasthis aha moment that I had
standing in a metaphysical shophere in Victoria BC where I live
, and I was looking at a card.
It was just like a littlegreeting card and on the outside
of the card was this beautifulpainted rose and the rose was
(08:08):
tight in a bud but it was juststarting to unfurl.
Nice, can I read it from you?
Yes, please, absolutely Okay.
This is how it all started andthis actually ties in with the
heart's journey, because theheart's journey Oracle cards,
hearts that I found in naturewas my symbol.
I believed from the universewhen I said please show me a
(08:29):
symbol that I'm following myheart.
Wow, through thistransformative experience of
realizing that the man I wasmarried to, we were no longer
together on the journey, wow.
Wow.
So it all ties into it.
But so I say the story my storystarts with.
How does she know?
How does Anais Nin knowprecisely how I feel?
(08:53):
Before I even know.
All these years I've asked why?
Why am I in such pain?
Why does my body hurt, ache,feel numb and tight all the time
?
I stand in front of a rack ofgreeting cards in a local
metaphysical shop.
The shop is full of customersbrowsing the shelves and seeking
answers to solve their problems.
(09:14):
In a world of crystals, oraclecards, candles and incense.
I'm drawn to a card with apainted rose just beginning to
(09:38):
open.
I like the pink hues and theWow.
And the day came when the riskto remain tight in a bud was
more painful than the risk ittook to blossom.
That quote, joe, changed mylife.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
More accurately.
I let that quote change my life.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right, because I read that and I felt something just
go like clunk in my body, adefining moment.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, it was like this lightning bolt of
recognition where I realized, ohmy God, all the pain I'm
carrying in my body is likebeing that tight little bud and
instead of naturally allowingmyself to open and blossom and
express and be in the world inthis beautiful being that I am,
I was denying myself that and Iwas denying the world that.
(10:28):
The energy it took to stay tight.
That's where the pain wascoming from, and with that
understanding, I could start tounweave all the things that I
had woven together to keepmyself safe and protected, which
was creating all the pain.
And that journey began withthat quote.
(10:49):
And then it took all of mycourage and, some days, all of
my vulnerability to realize thatI couldn't go backwards, right.
I couldn't go back into the bud.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We never can.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
No, we never can, you can't?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
No, no, it doesn't.
And for me, part of thatjourney was the realization that
part of who I was keepingmyself tight as a bud for was
for my husband at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I had fit myself into his expectation of me and I had
allowed that to become who Iwas, and his expectation of me
was that I would never change,that I would always stay the
same, and he even said thatthose were his words in one of
our many exhaustiveconversations over the next
couple of years, which was youcan't change.
I want you to be the woman Imarried forever.
Wow.
(11:47):
I was 27, when we got married.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It doesn't make any sense at all.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's funny.
I always tell people you'reeither going forward or you're
going backwards.
And if you're going backwards,it's generally because you're
not doing anything, because theworld's turning, you can't not
move.
You're either going to go oneway or you're going to go the
(12:10):
other way.
And the other thing is thatword vulnerability.
I think that we just did amen's circle a couple of weeks
ago and that came up as thepower of vulnerability.
It's, it's weird because, uh,you know, as I'm doing more work
on myself, I get all emotionaleasier and easier and I'm like
(12:32):
whoa, where are these tearscoming from?
I just turned into a big oldcry baby all the time.
And it's not that I'm sad, Ijust, you know, I just feel
emotion.
I just I don't even know whatit is.
Sometimes you hear music andtears start coming.
I'm like what the heck is this?
Yeah, but there's somethingabout, like what you're talking
about, all that energy to holdsomething back.
(12:53):
Answer is just letting go well,let yourself, start to unfold,
let yourself be this thing thatit's trying to be.
It doesn't truly even take aneffort.
It takes just to be able torelax.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And for me, the expressive arts part of it.
Like you said earlier, I am avery creative person and I feel
(13:28):
like now in my life, at 56,everything I do is a creative
process, Whether I'm dryingmushrooms that I just went out
into the forest and picked andI'm thinking what am I going to
make with these mushrooms?
Am I going to powder them?
Am I going to cook them andfreeze them?
Am I going to dry them?
How am I going to use themmedicinally that whole process,
that whole thought process, is acreative expression when we
look at our health and ourwell-being.
(13:49):
And in this book.
There's 22 authors from aroundthe world who've contributed to
this book.
And each of us shares a story ofwhen our creative process
became the healing modality thatwe now share and teach.
And then we share a tool at theend of the chapter, and the
tool that I teach is about howto create a sacred space for an
(14:10):
oracle card reading.
You can tap into that innerknowing and that inner wisdom
that you have.
I never thought of myself as anartist, particularly.
I can still draw really greatstick figures and I look at my
daughters.
My daughters are incredibleartists.
They are amazing.
I don't think it came from menecessarily.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
All right, I would be a great artist, as about a
three-year-old, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
But the creativity the creativity that I like to
think that came from me becauseI'm always engaged in that
creative process.
So where I went and how thisall ties in to the healing
journey, to the work that I do,to nature, to the Oracle cards
and all of it, is that when Istarted to see these hearts in
nature, like little hearts instones on the beach or the shape
(15:00):
of clouds or in trees or leaves, I started to take photographs
of them and I'd always lovedphotography.
I especially loved microphotography, and I tried
numerous times in my life tolearn how to be a photographer
and it never really took holduntil I decided that it was okay
.
I gave myself permission that'sa key point.
(15:21):
I gave myself permission tojust take pictures of these
hearts with my phone, as I foundthem Right, and so the quality
of these photographs, I mean.
Here's an example of one ofthem.
This is a beautiful Ousmane,it's a type of lichen.
Wow, a little heart shape inthe middle of it.
You know, here's a cloud I loveit wow I'm not a professional
(15:45):
photographer.
Here's one that's a littleheart-shaped rock.
I love it, but I can see things.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I see things differently than other people
yeah, yeah, that's really thekey to photography.
My wife is a great photographer.
I go around, I just clickbuttons and you know, sometimes
I get lucky and catch a good onewhere she just like every time
she clicks something like, well,how'd you get that?
You know it's, it's, it's, it'san eye, it's a.
It's definitely a gift.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's an intuitive process, right, and that's
that's the whole thing with withthe expressive arts, it isn't.
It's tapping into yourintuition.
Whether you're dancing oryou're painting, or you're
taking photographs or you'recreating meditations, whatever
it is, you're creating gardens,it's all part of that intuitive
creative spark that we all have.
(16:32):
How does that tie intowell-being?
Because what better way isthere to help manage and
navigate stress?
And I use those wordsparticularly, rather than deal
with stress, Because dealingwith stress is a very, you know,
task-oriented,masculine-oriented way of
(16:53):
achieving something.
Achieving results.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It's actually kind of bullshit really.
I mean to be frank, stress ispart of life and you know it's
like sailing.
You know you're never going tomaster the ocean, you're just
going to try to navigate it, tryto keep yourself afloat.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
That's right, and I love that word navigate.
I have a client right now whois in.
She has stage four kidneycancer and she's in hospice
right now and a lot of peopleare talking about how she's
dying of cancer and I keepreminding her look, you're still
alive, so you're living withthis cancer.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Can testify to that one.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, exactly, you know.
And I say to her you can walkout of hospice.
People do leave hospice alive.
It can happen many times.
And part of her creativeprocess right now is writing her
book, her next book, Nice.
It's a beautiful book and I'mhelping her to edit it and to do
the word crafting oh fantastic,I'm also an editor as well.
(17:57):
Just one more thing I do.
Just one more thing I do.
And her book is all aboutletters and it's called.
It's called, If you Only Knew,A Healing Book of Letters.
And these are letters she'swritten over her lifetime to
various people, places,experiences and using.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
There's a lost art.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Exactly Well, and that's part of this book is
reintroducing people to the lostart of letter writing, and then
also using letter writing as atherapeutic tool, and also the
destruction of letters that nolonger serve a purpose or that
you're ready to release theenergy of Powerful work.
Yeah, I love it and this iswork that she and I are doing
(18:36):
while she's living with cancerin hospice right.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
She's probably forgetting that she's dying too.
Huh, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Aging in a creative process.
So I would say, for anybody whohas been given any kind of
diagnosis and cancer is one ofthose diagnoses, as you well and
intimately know is just one ofthose devastating oh my gosh.
And the immediate response isyou've got to start taking chemo
and you've got to start takingradiation or we're going to cut
it out or whatever.
It's very drastic yeah.
(19:04):
Yeah, it's very aggressive.
It's very aggressive.
It would be so fascinating andso wonderful if an oncologist,
upon delivering this news, ifthe first words out of his or
her mouth were so what kind ofcreative process would you like
to?
Speaker 1 (19:20):
engage.
I love it.
Yeah, you never know.
I mean, I've been meeting a lotof oncologists and some of
these integrative folks have gotsome pretty good tricks up
their sleeves.
So I think that there's as muchas the standard of care side of
things is rigid and strong andoverpowering.
(19:41):
There's a handful of rebelssort of breaking free and seeing
some truth on the other side ofit.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Absolutely, and it's so beautiful to watch that.
And there's amazingdocumentaries that are being
produced right now, looking atthis phenomenon of cancer, for
example, and then differentplaces in the world's response
to it, beliefs about it,research on it, understanding
what it is, and then looking atalternative.
(20:07):
I mean, we call themalternatives, but really in many
other cultures, the primarycare is right.
Let's start counselingimmediately.
What are you carrying in yourbody?
Anger-wise, trauma-wise,belief-wise, grief-wise?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
What are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Relationships like yeah, all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
And you know it's interesting because when I was
in that first marriage and heand I, we met when we were
teenagers, we were best friends,we had wonderful beautiful
times.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I had one of those too, yeah beautiful times.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
We created two beautiful daughters.
I mean, you know it wasn't likeit was all bad by any stretch
of the imagination, but I doremember, as I was coming into
this process of beginning torecognize my own need for
healing at a really deep level,and that part of the pain I was
carrying was the dysfunction inthe relationship.
I remember feeling intuitivelyif I don't do something about
(21:04):
this, I will get cancer.
And of all the diseases I couldmanifest, all the ways my body
could tell me that it wasn'thappy, that things were not
going well.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right, right, right.
That's about the most dramaticone.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And it's not that I wanted it at all but I remember
that little voice at the back ofmy head saying listen, you've
got to change something aboutthis relationship, something
about your relationship withyourself.
You have to start taking careof yourself, or else this is how
it's going to show up for you,and then that will be your
(21:37):
journey.
And I mean it's always ajourney, right, Right, it hasn't
been my journey to have acancer diagnosis.
I've never had cancer that.
I'm aware of.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Should it stay that way the rest of your life?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Instantaneously heal all sorts of things, yeah, but
having worked with many, manyclients for whom that is their
journey or has been theirjourney, I feel just so
passionate about helping peoplerecognize the importance of
holistic health Agreed.
On every level, and that's wherethe food as medicine comes in,
(22:10):
that's where nature as medicinecomes in, that's where just
taking care of yourself andasking questions outside the box
about the why of this, and whenI hear some of the beautiful
things that you're doing on yourown healing journey with this,
I want that for everybody.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Me too.
That's part of the purpose ofthis podcast and building a
community around holisticwellness, you know, and all
these different facets andthings I never even thought of
sometimes.
And you know I'm grateful thatyou've become part of the
community, coming back, and youactually sat in one of Dr
Hoffman's calls and you knowyou'd get able to get a taste.
(22:50):
One day you're going to comeout and see our gardens and
maybe forest, and you know, butthat's what it's all about is
sharing our experiences and, andyou know, we're all teachers
and we're all students andunless we don't do anything and
yes, it's all up to us well, Ireally would like to hear a
(23:11):
little more about your chapter.
And you know we talk aboutexpressive arts and unfurling
your potential and all of this.
But let's get into like, whatsort of?
You know, are we talking aboutpainting?
Are we talking about music?
How do we get into this?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
For me personally.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Well, no, just as you shared with the chapter in the
book.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Right.
Well, in my chapter, what I'msharing is that, that moment of
recognition like the oh my gosh,this is what I'm doing.
And then what happened when Iarrived home that day?
Okay and said to my husband ohmy gosh, I had this incredible
epiphany.
You know, let let's do thistogether.
(23:59):
Let's blossom together.
And the response that Ireceived was not what I was
expecting.
This is somebody that I'd spentso much of my youth with, and my
20s and my 30s, and I thoughtthat I knew him and then I
discovered that I didn't.
(24:20):
And if I can read a little bitmore, I'll share it, oh, please
yeah yeah, I write.
I can't wait to get home andshare this epiphany with my
husband.
I always take care of hisemotional needs, but it's time
for things to change.
Later that evening, after Imake dinner, clean the kitchen
and put our daughters to bed,I'm ready to relax and tell him
about my day and my newfoundunderstanding.
(24:40):
I can't wait to show him mygreeting card and read the quote
together.
I know he's going to be asmoved as I am.
It turns out I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I don't see any reason to change anything about
our lives, he tells me, leavethe past in the past.
What do you need to rehash?
Everything that's rich Comingfrom the man who only lives in
(25:14):
the past and is afraid ofplanning for the.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
He sees the look on my face, he realizes I'm serious
and he backpedals.
I promise to be a betterhusband.
I'll help more around the houseand stop leaving my dirty socks
on the floor.
I'll look after the girls whenI get home from work so you can
have a break.
I'll do anything you need me todo.
Just promise me one thing Don'tchange so much that you realize
(25:39):
you don't need me.
Just don't leave me.
This isn't the first time I'veheard this mantra of promises.
I must have absorbed AeneasNin's words into my very cells
because I feel an unsettlingemotion.
I think it's distrust.
I realize my husband's promiseshave an emptiness to them.
(26:00):
There's a pattern he says thewords but fails to follow up
with lasting actions.
His love comes with thecondition that I don't question
his motives or his behaviors.
This is it, I think to myself.
This is the moment his controlof me begins to slip, because I
can see through hismanipulations.
(26:21):
I can see what he's so afraidof.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Wow, that's heavy.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yes, and from that moment, you see, the gift that I
gave myself was that I startedto look at my life.
I started to notice certainpatterns, behaviors in myself in
response to him.
And he was just coming from ascared place.
(26:50):
I get that Nobody wants theirlife to suddenly be upheaved.
Oh, no, I'm sorry, all of thosechanges, yeah, so I go on to say
I see red flags within mymarriage trying to get my
attention my husband's emotionalaffairs, his addiction to
spending our money on hiscollections, and his controlling
and manipulative behaviors.
(27:10):
And the question I had to askmyself was this how have I
allowed these behaviors topersist?
And, more importantly, why?
How have I unwillingly orwillingly participated?
And, more importantly, why?
How have I unwillingly orwillingly participated?
How is it possible that I findmyself in an emotionally and
financially abusive marriage?
This must be the emotionalsource of my pain.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Wow, that's powerful because you took ownership.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Exactly, exactly.
But here's the wake-up call.
This is this moment.
Oh, where are we now?
Right?
So there's a car accident,which was also a pivotal point
to this whole story.
Okay, and what I had done is Ihad said to the universe I think
I need a wake-up call, like Ican't see the way through, I
(27:56):
can't see the forest for thetrees.
Something needs to happenthat's going to pull the rug out
from underneath me, and in somepeople's cases it's a diagnosis
of cancer that stops you inyour tracks and you go.
Wait, I have to look at my lifenow, right For me.
When the car accident happened,I thought that was the wake-up
call, because I'd never been ina car accident before.
(28:18):
We were rear-ended.
It's a whole series of events.
We were rear-ended and I wasthe one that got injured.
My husband and my children werein the car too.
They were okay, thank goodness.
And so I thought, right, well,this is the thing that stops me,
because I can't be Wonder Womananymore.
With my injuries, I can't doall the things that I used to do
.
But that wasn't the wake-upcall.
(28:45):
It's a few weeks after theaccident and my husband comes
home from work grinning.
You'll never guess who poked meon Facebook.
I go through the list of ourhigh school friends but come up
empty-handed and a littleexasperated.
I have three pots on the stove,a two-year-old wearing nothing
but the Cheerios she's justdumped all over the floor and
herself and my neck is killingme.
Read the room.
I want to shout at him here.
I'll show you.
He says as he opens hisFacebook page At my husband's
(29:08):
insistence I don't have aFacebook account, you don't have
the time.
He says All our friends are thesame anyways, you don't need
your own account.
Oh my god, that's my firstboyfriend from high school.
Oh my god, that's my firstboyfriend from high school.
How on earth my heart dropsinto my stomach when I see the
photo of him and his wife.
That should have been me.
(29:29):
Wait what?
Where did that come from?
I'm perfectly happy in mymarriage.
I intend to spend the rest ofmy life with my husband, grow
old with him and live happilyever after, don't I?
Aren't we going to save ourmarriage together?
I don't want this.
This can't be happening.
I don't need this.
You should message him.
I hear the words, but I don'tunderstand what he means.
(29:52):
Whatever, for I say Well, toclear away any lingering
feelings you still have for him,it'll be good for both of us,
if you do like, how it's beengood for me to reconnect with
all my past crushes.
But there are no lingeringfeelings.
I loved him once, but that waslong ago.
I'm not holding a torch for him.
Of this I am very aware, atleast not for the boy he was
(30:14):
then.
The man he is now, I don't know.
Yet.
I realize my husband is stilltalking to me.
I smell the now overcookedbroccoli and realize my daughter
is no longer in the kitchen.
I follow the trail of Cheeriosinto the living room to find her
.
I need a distraction.
I can't deal with this rightnow.
It's midnight and the house isasleep, except for me.
(30:37):
I quietly get out of bed andhead to the kitchen.
I open the family computer.
My husband's left his Facebookpage open, just in case you
change your mind, he told me.
I look at my old boyfriend'sprofile, feeling deliciously
daring and equally terrified.
I feel an unmistakable pull ofenergy, vast and insistent.
(30:58):
So this is my wake-up call, theone thing I cannot ignore, make
sense of or dismiss.
Now, what?
Now, what?
Indeed, with nothing to lose, Iask the universe Show me a sign
, a sign so obvious I can't missit.
A sign so that I will know I amfollowing my heart above all
(31:19):
other voices and making mychoices from a place of
integrity and love.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Healing comes from so many different places.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah , comes from so many different
places.
Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah.
And and from that did you endup reaching out to him, or did?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
you just realize what you needed to do.
I am married to him.
Oh my God I've been for thelast 15 years Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Wow yeah, holy cow man, your intuition is quite a
guiding light for you.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
It is, and you know, here's the thing about listening
to one's intuition.
It isn't always easy.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Our intuition tells us the things we need to know,
but then it's our job to chooseor not to choose to follow that
intuition.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
And it's often not what we want to hear.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
It is often not what we want to hear.
And for the next two years,after that realization and that
reconnection, at my thenhusband's assistance, so many
things changed, obviously, butso many things had to be healed
in that process and they had tobe questioned in that process,
(32:34):
and I had to learn to speak mytruth, to stand up for myself.
And most of that time was spentboth with myself and my now
husband desperately fightingagainst what was showing up for
us Right.
And if you've been in thatsituation, I get it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I've gone down in my quest to live the life I'm here
to live.
I've done things that I justwas not going to do.
But when my goal and my desirewas to do what I'm here to do, I
(33:13):
couldn't avoid those things.
And now I embrace them.
But when you're walking up intoit, you're going this is not
what I want to do and I don'tlike this, but I have to do it
for whatever reason.
And you do what you need to doif you have integrity.
And then you find yourself it'slike oh wow, I wouldn't have
(33:36):
ever discovered this world orthis purpose or this talent or
whatever, had I not, you know,just stuck to what I should have
done.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, that's exactly it, and the thing that happens I
know from personal experienceand also all the clients that
I've worked with over the yearswhen those blinders fall off,
whatever they are for, and Ialways think of it like a horse
that has the blinders on so thatit can't get distracted by the
things that are on the sideright it's a great analogy when
those blinders fall off and youstart looking around and
(34:06):
realizing, huh, there are thingsthat I have been ignoring.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
And the things that I've been ignoring are the cause
of my pain, my disease, myinjury, whatever it is the way
that the body is trying to helpyou get back on track, and I
know that when a person is stuck, it's usually because there
aren't the things yet in placefor them to move forward.
(34:34):
Got it the things yet in placefor them to move forward.
So that being stuck keeps youin a safe, comfortable place.
Even if that comfortableness isdiscomfort and dis-ease, I love
it.
Until everything is in placeright.
I was prepared to go through theincredible, excruciating pain
that I was in after my caraccident and I'd already been
living with chronic pain,fibromyalgia, for decades and
(34:58):
all kinds of other, a host ofother health issues for a very
long time.
So I was familiar with pain,but this was a different level
of pain that I was in after thecar accident.
But I was prepared to gothrough the physiotherapy, take
the medication.
I was on Demerol for the painand I was just ready to, you
know, shoulder forward and keepgoing and get back to being
(35:20):
Wonder Woman.
And when this showed up, it hitme at a deep physical level in
a way that I had neverexperienced before and there was
no going back.
There was no going back even ifmy then husband and I had been
able to somehow cross thatbridge over all the water that
(35:41):
was already under it, it neverwould have been the same.
It wouldn't have, and itwouldn't have been the same for
him nor for me.
By him I mean my former husband.
And here's the other point ofit.
In any relationship, joe,there's two people participating
.
We get there together and Iremember sitting in counseling
with my then husband and hebelieves he's desperately trying
(36:04):
to save the marriage.
I'm trying to understand how wegot to that point in the
marriage.
That's what I said to thecounselor If this marriage is
saved, okay.
But before that can happen Ineed to understand how and why
we got to this place together.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And considering that it was my then husband who kept
insisting that I reconnect withthis old boyfriend, for whom I
truly had no residual feelingsat all, he must have known on
some level.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
He knew, he did know.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
He knew his own unhappiness.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
And he knew his own inability at the time to do
anything about it Right.
So he put it on me and I saidokay, as the stronger one in
this relationship, I will be theone.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Somebody's got to take that step, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, and it's not an easy step to take, but it's
also a very empowering step,exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Well it never comes without discomfort, that's for
sure, or at least it doesn'tseem to.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Well, sure, and like it wasn't a breeze, you know,
there was a lot, of, a lot oflong, painful conversations into
the night.
There was a lot of a lot ofthings that came up for me
physically, health wise, as Iwas processing all of it and
really getting clear on who do Iwant to be in the world and how
(37:29):
do I want to show up in theworld, and is this the person
who can support me and walk withme in order to do that?
And, by his own admission, hewas not that man to walk with me
.
And when my now husband showedup, there was just something
there that I didn't want at thetime, but I did.
(37:53):
I just didn't know.
That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Absolutely.
But you were putting yourselfin a place where you could
understand that.
Well, listen, as I suspectedwe're going to, we breezed
through our block of time and Ireally want you know, this book
sounds fascinating, and that'syou know.
Really, I don't mean just, andthat's you know.
Really I don't mean just, butthat's your chapter 18 out of
(38:16):
how many chapters?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
22.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
It's amazing.
So what I'll do, joe, is I'llsend a link to the author page
on well, send a link to myauthor page because it's listed
there, but also the books pageon Amazon.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And I'll create a coupon that.
I can send to your audience andso if anybody wants to purchase
the book through me, I willsign it and I'm happy to do that
on the personal, or they canpurchase it directly through
Amazon, and that helps all of usauthors too, because every
purchase brings us up.
We are number one in sixdifferent categories in health
(38:54):
and wellness and self-help, andempowerment and stress, and I
think on the launch week we werenumber five on Amazon for this
book.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Well, I love it.
Sign me up.
I will certainly purchase acopy and have your signature on
it and send me what I need to do.
And I'm tickled.
I think this is fantastic andwe'll put all that stuff into
the show notes so everybody cansee it.
And, megan, this is I guessyou're you're parting shot.
(39:23):
What's that mean?
It sounds like an amazing,powerful book.
I I look forward to moreconversations with you.
Every time we get in here, it'sa easier conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I love it.
I love this connection thatwe've created on and off the
podcast and I'm really lookingforward to coming down and
seeing what you've created andin the future, as a parting, I
want to bring it back to thisidea of the expressive arts.
And what is that?
And really what it is is howyou choose to express yourself
(39:58):
creatively, and if all you candraw is stick figures, then draw
stick figures.
You know, you don't have to doit for anybody else, you do it
for yourself.
And when I first started takingphotographs of these hearts as
I was going through this wholeprocess, I just kept them for
myself.
I had no intention of sharingthem and I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
They're magnificent.
I mean, I'm glad you did.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, thank you.
Yes, me as well, but that's thepoint.
You know, I did it for me.
And then they became somethingthat helped other people, and
that's a beautiful thing.
If it should happen or you knowwhat I could have just kept
them on my phone and had themjust be for me, and that would
have been perfect as well.
So do something today whenyou're listening to this
beautiful podcast.
(40:43):
Do something creative today,anything.
And just notice how you feel,feel it in your body, see what
happens.
Why not?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
I love it.
That's a beautiful, a beautifulset of words and, Megan, I'm
just so tickled and I lookforward to having you back to
continue this conversation andto the listeners.
I'm super grateful for all thesupport we're getting.
This podcast continues to growand thank you for all your
support and we will see you nexttime.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.