June 12, 2025 • 32 mins
What if the most powerful medicine cabinet was already in your kitchen? Herbalist Rachelle Robinette reveals how we're all practicing herbalism without even realizing it—through the spices we cook with, the teas we drink, and the plants surrounding our homes.
Rachelle's journey from farm kid to New York fashion professional to renowned herbalist offers a fascinating glimpse into how plant medicine can transform lives. Despite growing up with a functional health practitioner mother and an anesthesiologist father, she never intended to make herbalism her career. Yet her lifelong fascination with healing traditions eventually led her to recognize herbalism as the perfect intersection of nutrition, fitness, medicine, mental health, spirituality, and community work.
During our conversation, Rachelle shares insights from her forthcoming book "Naturally, the Herbalist's Guide to Health and Transformation," explaining her unique categorical approach to organizing herbs by their uses rather than alphabetically—making complex herbal knowledge immediately practical for everyday health concerns. She addresses common misconceptions about herbal safety, advocates for empowering people beyond following recipes, and relates touching client success stories that demonstrate herbalism's potential to transform not just physical health but entire lives.
Perhaps most refreshing is her mission to make herbalism accessible to everyone by stripping away its esoteric reputation and demonstrating its scientific validity and relevance to modern urban life. Whether you're a complete newcomer curious about natural remedies or an experienced herbalist seeking fresh perspectives, Rochelle's balanced approach offers valuable wisdom about working with plants responsibly and effectively.
Ready to explore how herbalism might transform your own health journey? Discover "Naturally, the Herbalist's Guide to Health and Transformation" available July 22nd wherever books are sold, or connect with Rochelle through her website and Instagram for weekly herbalism insights through her free newsletter.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
Her name is Rochelle Robinetteand she is an herbalist and the
author of the forthcoming book,Naturally, the Herbalist's Guide
to Health and Transformation.
And, Rochelle, welcome to theshow.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you so much.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Nice.
So I have been involved withherbs for about 40 years and you
know I love to hear freshperspectives, and a new book
comes out is always exciting.
So I'd like to hear a littlebit from you.
What brings you here?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, first of all, I love tohear that you've been working
with the plants for 40 years.
That's incredible and you know,it reminds me of the fact that,
you know, herbalism is a partof so many of our lives already
and so many of us don't realizethat.
You know, it's in kitchens,it's in the backyard, it's it's
(01:07):
at the coffee shop, it's at thegrocery store, it's all around
us.
So you know, I think we're allprobably practicing herbalism
and in one way or another oneway or another, for sure.
Yeah, and, and realizing that,you know, and waking up to that,
as you well know, is lifechanging and health changing.
You know it's transformationalto realize that we're surrounded
(01:29):
by opportunities to be well, tobe better, to be more vital,
and we're surrounded by naturalmedicine.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know so the food aspect of health is one of the
most overlooked and importantpieces.
And you know, you drive downthe road and you see fast food
place after fast food place andthen you find some little corner
produce stand and that's wherefood actually is.
And you know, it's kind ofcrazy.
(02:00):
We've, we've, we're kind ofbackwards with all of that.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's true, it's really gotten to that point,
it's very true, and you knowsomething that your listeners
are probably very well aware of.
Um, but I like to remind peoplewho are less familiar with
herbalism you know thatherbalists will always start
with food.
You know it is our firstmedicine and if we can be well
with our food, much of which isalso, you know, herbal.
(02:27):
You think of blueberries orrosemary, or you know any of
these culinary spice vegetableor fruit is going to be an herb.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, I always say the definition of an herb is
a useful plant I make topicalskin products with them and
elixirs and things, and I, if Iput it in there and it came from
a plant, it's an herb.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's so true.
It's so true.
You know, and and if we can, ifwe can use food to reach a
state of you know, health andwellness and and not need herbs
as medicine on top of that, youknow any any herbalist will will
send you off with that.
You know, quote unquoteprotocol.
The goal is not to have, youknow, everybody taking a bunch
of herbs as medicine if we don'tneed them.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So yeah, chinese doctor, and they'll give you a
bowl of soup as a prescription,and you got to go to the Chinese
pharmacy and they pull out allthe parts and pieces and they go
, here you go, go make your soup.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Exactly, I love that, I love that, yeah.
So food is, food is critical,for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And to this.
Like you know, I have a storyhow I found my way to looking at
natural medicine.
But you know what got you tothis.
Where did you come from?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, I came from a to looking at natural
medicine, but you know what?
What got you to this?
Where did you come from?
Yeah, well, I came from a farmin the Pacific Northwest, the,
the.
The journey wasn't linearexactly.
I mean, in some ways it was.
You know, I grew up on thatfarm and I was surrounded by
nature.
We had an enormous garden.
My dad was an anesthesiologist,so I was exposed to Western
(04:06):
medicine and surgery and youknow bodies and all of the sort
of concepts of health from thatperspective.
And then my mom is a functionalhealth practitioner still.
So I had this sort of balanceof both.
I started taking supplementsand drinking teas and using
essential oils very, very young,you know, nice.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Built in a little bit to some degree.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's very built in.
You know, I never intended tomake it my career.
I went straight from that farmto New York City to work in
fashion.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Wow, what a juxtaposition there.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Dichotomy it was intentionally.
I wanted nothing to do withdirt for a long time.
That said, my personal study andmy personal practice of all of
these things which all of thesethings is herbalism never
stopped from the time I wasyoung.
I mean I was in junior high orelementary school, maybe I was
(05:08):
doing a report on traditionalChinese medicine and acupuncture
, you know, I was.
I was studying every healingtradition that I could get my
hands on.
From the time that I was veryyoung, mostly because I was I
was fascinated with the slightlymore philosophical perspective
of this sort of work, which is,you know, how does what we take
(05:33):
in through our senses affect ourexperience of being alive?
Sights, sounds, thoughts, light, of course food, of course
herbs, sounds, thoughts, light,of course food, of course herbs.
So I was really interested insort of that root root root
cause, if you will, of how ourstates change, how our health
changes, how our mind changes.
(05:53):
So I studied everything I couldget my hands on and even when I
was working in fashion, I wasraw vegan.
I was using my vacation days togo to Peru to do ayahuasca.
So I was always doing it, justnot always professionally.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, I suspect you found thatthe answer was a lot more ways
than anybody thinks.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Exactly exactly, and the answer that I found was it's
herbalism, because herbalism isall of this.
It is that holistic, it isabout nutrition and fitness and
medicine and mental health andspirituality and community.
As you well know, it is notjust plants as medicine, it is
(06:36):
the whole human and the wholeenvironment we are.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Nature is you know it's infinite, you know you'll
never be able to learn it all,because it's so regional and you
go from one place to the nextand their understandings and
uses of the same plants, even insome cases, are so different
and the differences of theplants grown in one region to
another can be so different.
And that's when I discoveredthat I'm like oh cool, I found
(07:03):
my life's path, because I'llnever get to the end of the road
.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I love that.
Yeah, I felt the same way.
You know, it's like I can marrythis because it will continue
to evolve, and evolve and evolve, and, you know, we'll continue
to discover more plants andwe'll continue to discover more
about the plants that we havealready discovered and more
about our bodies, and our bodieswill change.
It's.
It is fascinating and it isendless for those who want to.
(07:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Today is such an exciting time to be in because
when I started this, therewasn't computers, there wasn't
internet, and I foundinformation in old books from
the used bookstore and that'swhere I began my journey and
there was a handful of new books.
But you know, you read, youread.
There was no AI, there was noWikipedia, there was no Google,
(07:52):
there wasn't any of that.
And you read and you tried, andyou met people and talked and
that was kind of a I would neverwant to learn any other way
because, I learned in a way thatreally stuck to me by just, you
know, trying and all that.
But nowadays, if I want to learnsomething, look up a recipe, I
get a head start that takes meprobably about five books of not
(08:16):
having to read.
So we get at least a lot of.
It's an exciting time to belearning today.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It is exciting and you know, I had the Internet,
you, I had the internet when Iwas studying these things, but
the wellness industry didn'texist in the way that it exists
now.
When I started I was connectinga lot of dots from the
herbalism world and then thebiohacking bodybuilding world,
(08:44):
herbalism world and then thebiohacking sort of bodybuilding
world.
You know they were very, veryearly to a lot of the
supplements and things that are,you know, popular now.
Creatine is a perfect example.
You know I was in those likechat rooms and things, and it's
like they're talking aboutsimilar things that the
herbalists are talking about andlike starting to become popular
.
And one of the other things thatI tried to do early on and that
(09:04):
I definitely still dointentionally, um is to present
herbalism in a way that is asaccessible as possible to as
wide an audience as possible,because I think if you love
herbalism or you're an herbalist, like you get it.
You know the vibe, you know thelook and feel, or you're an
herbalist, like you get it.
You know the vibe, you know thelook and feel, you know it can
(09:26):
be.
It has a distinct kind of brand, if you will, and I wanted to,
I wanted to appeal to and excite, you know again, as many people
as possible and kind of wake upthe realization that this is
not fringe, it is not esoteric,it is not unscientific, it is so
(09:50):
relevant and so important formodern life, even modern urban
life.
You know it's, it can be sexy,it's, you know it is, is fair,
whatever you want it to be baby.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Exactly so, baby, exactly so, yeah, yeah, so
that's awesome and you know, Ithink that if you put
information out there in a way,that sort of filters itself, the
people who really need to findyou will and the people that are
just glossing over.
They'll do that and probablynot waste your time, so it's a
(10:24):
good way to go about it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, it feels like, yeah, naturally I love
this labor of love.
I mean naturally really is thesort of capstone project, the
culmination of over a decade,you know, working in herbalism,
or a lifetime, you know.
(10:47):
If we want to look at it thatway, my lifetime, sure, and
Naturally is for anyone who islooking for better health.
Naturally it is about herbalismand anyone who's interested in
herbalism will learn plenty.
If you're a beginner, if you'rea professional, it's all in
(11:10):
there.
And if you've never even heardof herbalism before, it's also
the book for you.
It's really about, you know.
It includes case studies frommy work with clients.
It includes history, itincludes new science, it
includes recipes.
It's really meant to and it's aand it's a.
(11:31):
you know, I really strive tomake it a literary experience,
so you sit down and you can readthis book for pleasure and
learn a lot along the way.
I was really determined to nothave it feel like a textbook.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Technical books are hard to read and for us that
research.
You just power through it andread it.
But and then readable booksgenerally don't have a lot of
good content that you can usefor research.
So you're marrying the twotogether.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, I really, really was determined to do that
, and I think it speaks to thatprevious point that I mentioned
about making this accessible.
You know, I wanted it to be anenjoyable experience.
I wanted people to be moved, tobe inspired and also to be, you
know, highly educated by theend of the book about what
herbalism can do and understand.
You know, if I just want totake one step, great.
(12:19):
If I want to change my wholelife, great.
So I think the other thingthat's important to note about
the book is that most of thechapters focus on a specific
category of herbs, because Ifind categories of herbs to be a
very easy way to understand howto navigate the thousands.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I can appreciate that a lot.
I've read a lot of herbal booksand a lot of them are just
alphabetical.
And then you go to the table ofcontents and you try to find
references, and the categoriesare what you're generally
looking for.
I'm looking for things that dothis, and A's, b's and C's, so I
think that's a great move youdid there.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I think it's.
It was the way that I bestlearned herbs and it's the way
that I've taught them and Ithink it makes a lot of sense
for people when they hear youknow, I've got stress.
What are the herbs for stress?
You know?
That's kind of the way that wespeak about them.
Anyway, I need help sleeping.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You for stress, you know that's kind of a way that
we speak about them.
Anyway, I need help sleeping.
You know there's a category forthat.
You know there's a category forneed states.
So so you start out and you'vegot these categories of herbs.
You talk about the plants, youtalk about what they do.
Do you talk about how to usethem?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I do, definitely, yeah.
So within each chapter there'sa case study, so I take through
a client that I had and theexact protocols that I used with
that client, and that includesherbs within that category, but
it also includes dietaryrecommendations, lifestyle
changes, and then there arespecifics in terms of, if I'm
(13:51):
talking about lavender, forexample, what's the best form to
take it in, what's arecommended dosage and what's
even more helpful I think forpeople is at the end of the book
.
There's a quite a large tableand it's a table of all of the
categories of herbs very easilyreferenced, you know, quickly.
You can just go look atlavender and say, okay, it's
(14:13):
best as a you know tea, forexample.
Or if I'm going to take acapsule, it's this capsule at
this dosage and here are anysafety concerns or notes.
You just reference it quickly.
So I think that tool you know,I haven't seen one of those in
the industry and it felt reallyimportant for me to include
something like that for peoplewho just want a quick you know,
(14:35):
quick check.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I like that.
I like it when an herbal hassort of two ways to look things
up.
One would be the uses of thisplant and the other one would be
, you know, teas or tinctures orinfusions and plants to use in
them, and that gives you twodifferent ways to go about it.
So I think that's a great wayto go forward.
(14:57):
Um, I noticed you did mentionthat things to be aware of as
far as, like contraindications.
I think that's an importantpiece, because people think that
, oh, it's an herb, so it's safeand I can just eat some of it,
it's great, take more, it'sbetter.
And so it's safe and I can justeat some of it, it's great,
take more, it's better.
And then people don't realizethat that is absolutely not the
(15:20):
case and some herbs can make youreally sick and even worse.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, there's a great quote.
I don't recall it was anotherherbalist who wrote this
somewhere.
She said just because it'snatural doesn't mean you can be
as stupid with it as you want tobe.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, that's a great .
That's a great saying Cause Iknow people who've damaged their
organs by just going too crazywith herbs.
It's like they tell you to take25 milligrams, so they take
2,500, and it's just like no.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, Well, I mean, a really easy way to not do that
is to take as directed you knowright, start a little less than
they tell you.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, up a little bit and see how you feel.
You know, take time with it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, and I really, I really work hard to ease the
fears around the safety withherbs, because I think there are
so many barriers to entryalready that concern of theirs,
you know, about their safety isit's overblown, of course.
Of course safety concerns exist, especially if we're taking,
(16:27):
you know, 100 times what therecommend.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That's generally where the problems come from.
Yeah, or a cup of tea, unlessyou're when the problems come
from.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah or poor quality.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Nobody's going to get sick from a cup of tea, unless
you're, you know, highlyallergic to something, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Exactly so you know, I think there are.
you know, generally, again, forthe general population, you know
what's available on the marketfrom reputable providers that is
high quality, that has aspecific, you know, dosage
recommendation on the product isnot something that we need to
be afraid of.
If anybody is taking medication, of course, you know you need
(17:00):
to check with a healthcareprovider and there are certain
herbs that you know we need tobe especially careful with.
But, like herb, you knowcontraindications within the
herbal world.
So, like herb-herb interactionsthat are, you know, dangerous,
are so uncommon and takingreasonable doses, you're
probably not going to have any,yeah yeah, of course.
(17:22):
So it's you know, it's somethingthat I like to to speak about,
of course, but really to try toto downplay responsibly, because
I think that's actually thetruth.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's the key really is that the client has to be
their own doctor and the clienthas to be mindful of what
they're doing, and they're theonly ones that know themselves
and how they feel and whatthey're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's true , it's true, and you know that
that reminds me of a relatedpoint in terms of, you know, our
taking our health and ourhealth into our own hands.
You know there are some recipesin the book as well, but I'm
pretty anti-recipe and thereason for that is that I really
, you know, I've always tried toteach people how to be
(18:11):
empowered to think forthemselves, to go beyond being
told what to do and to learn howto do it on their own, because
we can follow recipes, you know,until the end of time, but if
we don't have the right recipefor that thing, that happens
later on.
You know, what are we going todo?
Have we learned how to you know?
(18:32):
Have we learned these plans?
Have we learned our bodies insuch a way that we can create
our own recipe?
So I provide recipes, but Iprovide them as templates.
You know that can be customizedand personalized, because also
there's a compliance issue.
If you're like, well, this isthe recipe, but I don't like the
way this herb tastes.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, then what do you do?
You know Something else?
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that'sfantastic.
I think that, ultimately, thepeople that go into this, we all
start out with somebody else'srecipes and then we start
tweaking on them and the nextthing you know, you're like oh,
I see how this works as aformulator.
That's how I learned.
I didn't go to school for it, Ijust did it, and when I saw
that things worked, I kept doingthem, and if they didn't work,
(19:10):
I did something else.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Formulating is fascinating and so much fun.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's myfavorite part.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, mine too, I love to.
I just you know people are like, oh this, and that I'm a
tinkerer, I just like to tinkerwith things until I find
something that's nice.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
And you know I can understand.
You know, if people arestarting out like that's not
necessarily how they want tostart out.
I think I did.
I think, like you, I like tolearn about it and then try it.
You know, I did everything sortof on myself first.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Absolutely.
I'm the first test subject.
If I have an issue with it,then we put off.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
If I don't, then I got a few close friends that are
secondary test subjects and wego from there.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great wayto live, you know it's.
It's that direct experience andlike we have to, you know we
need to see the plant, taste it,touch it, feel it.
You can read about it in a book, you can read about life in a
book, but you know when you tryit for yourself, then then you
know in a different way.
(20:07):
So I love it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now, with herbs it's.
It's kind of when you'relooking at herbs in science,
it's kind of a complicated routebecause you have most herbs
contain multiple compounds andyou have this entourage effect
of multiple compounds.
Then you deal with supplementsand you're dealing with
generally single molecule, andso you have two different
elements, and you were talkingabout both supplements and herbs
(20:33):
.
How do you integrate these two?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, I definitely use both.
I'm a big fan of both, um, yeah, but it's a.
It's a great point, animportant point, and actually it
reminds me of, you know, thehypothetical person who's taking
100 times the recommended dose.
That's what happens withsupplements we isolate a
compound, concentrate it, takeit that way, um, and that's you
know.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And ironically, you know, there's so much less fear
in the market of thesesupplements than there are herbs
right, Exactly so over thecounter status, and all of a
sudden it's just nothing couldgo wrong.
Fda said it's okay, Right on,yeah so so, yeah, I like to work
with both.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I mean, there are some companies that do some
really brilliant formulationsthat include the nutraceuticals,
you know, as well as the herbs.
I love that.
I like to see, I really like tosee that.
Actually, I think that excitesme and it always has.
Yeah, you know, and when I'mcreating protocols for people,
if I want like, for example, Ilove amino acids, I find them
(21:32):
very, you know, easy to workwith wide therapeutic range.
So I might, you know, add and Itake those on my own routine as
well as a bunch of herbs, soit's really about the best
ingredient for the job.
But you know it's typically aplant-based or you know an
herbal blend.
But if there's, you know wewant to put some extra in there,
(21:53):
or you know something, then byall means means let's do that
agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I think when you know, even if it is uh extracted
or isolated from an animalproduct, by the time it's a
single molecule.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I don't think it matters yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
that that could be a like anethical thing, depending on the
person.
But uh, yeah, I don't discloseit, but I would.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I would.
It seems to me that you know ifyou got the compound.
It doesn't.
It is the compound whereverfrom.
Yeah, so tell me about yourpractice.
I know that you know you'retalking about clients and
whatnot.
How do people interact with youpersonally?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, well, I have actually retired from private
practice after many years andmany, many clients and many
classes and speaking engagements.
So I, at this point, I doeducation to wider audiences, so
we produce a lot of content, Iwrite a lot, I teach a lot
online or, you know, speakingengagements, that sort of thing.
(22:55):
But I moved away from theprivate practice around the time
that I started writing the book, maybe a little bit before that
, just because I wanted to scalea bit.
You know, so much that you learnwhen you're working one on one
with people.
But it got to a point where,just personally and
(23:16):
professionally, I was wanting tobranch out and also, you know,
to write a book like thisrequires an incredible amount of
time.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
People have no idea what it takes to write a book,
you got to write a book.
You got to write a book.
I'm like, yeah, I have to stopeverything else for a long
period of time and I've gotthings I'm doing.
So, yeah's, it's not everybodycan just write a book, that's
for sure a good one traumatic.
Yeah, no, that's for sure yeah,all the time and all the people
(23:46):
that you've worked with alwayslike to catch some kind of a
profound anecdote that no doubtthey had some interactions with
people that were just amazing.
You know where somebody had atransformation or an epiphany or
just some major positive change.
What kind of tell me one of thestories that came along your
(24:10):
path?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, there were so many of those.
I mean, I can't count thenumber of times that I, you know
, finished with a client andjust cried because it was
amazing to see their lives, howtheir lives had changed.
And usually you know alwaysactually that that comes because
they eventually took thispractice into their own hands
(24:34):
and began to their life.
You know more and more broadly,I think the one story that I
referenced most often, you know,when I'm thinking about these
transformations is one that Iincluded in, naturally and it's
a client when it was one of myvery first clients and we saw
each other for years and shecame in with digestive issues,
(24:56):
you know, maybe a little bit ofweight loss, that she was
looking to achieve some fairlyminor things, and we ended up
working together for years asher health evolved, as she got
pregnant, as she, you know, hadher children.
I ended up seeing her husbandas well.
But there was this point whereyou know she'd changed her diet,
(25:18):
she'd changed her lifestyle,she changed her relationship to
fitness.
You know all these things andshe comes to me and she says so.
This might sound strange, butlike do you think that herbalism
could help me start playing thepiano again.
I used to play the piano and Iloved it.
It brought me so much joy.
But I've lost it now that Ihave, you know, two kids and I'm
(25:40):
really, really busy, and youknow, long story short, yes, she
ended up playing the pianoagain, but the fact that she was
thinking that way was that wasit.
It was, you know.
Can you know this, thislifestyle, this lifestyle, this
holistic way of thinking andliving?
(26:01):
Where can it apply?
The answer is it can apply toanything, everywhere, exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I agree A hundred percent.
It's a tool to be used in anyway that you need it, and
there's something for everybodyif you look in the right places,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, so I love that story.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
She was very special has there been anybody that you
really weren't able to help andit was probably because of their
own, not willingness, but justcurious.
I mean, there's always thatstubborn client that you're just
like, I don't know, it doesn'twork, it doesn't work, it
doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That's great.
You know this sounds a littlebit unlikely, but it is true.
There was one person.
In all of the people that I saw, there was one person who was
really struggling to change.
It wasn't that they weren'tseeing results, but they were.
There was a lot of resistance.
You know, struggle, struggle.
And then, finally, she cameback to me and she said you know
(26:56):
what I realized?
I don't want to change, eventhough that's what it always
boils down to.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's always.
Yeah, I like the chaos, I likethe problem.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I know, I know that these things are not
healthy for me.
I've realized that they give mea certain kind of pleasure
because I don't have that inthis other part of my life, and
so I'm going to choose tocontinue to live the way that
I've lived.
But you know, she was helpedbecause she realized that.
You know.
So so much of this work alsoresembles therapy, I mean
(27:31):
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know, it's always when somebody wants to get
better that you.
You end up being a therapist,no matter what, and you have
whatever tools you use.
Well, I've got a final question.
You had mentioned that you'dgone to Peru, done ayahuasca.
I've worked with and studiedwhat we call ethnobotanicals for
40 years and I'm just curiousToday there's this resurgence in
(27:54):
what they call plant medicine.
You know there's a lot ofpeople experimenting and using
and working with some powerfulplant medicines.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
plants, those botanicals are certainly
powerful and have the potentialto be transformational in the
right, you know context, and Ithink there's an opportunity for
them to revolutionize, you know, mental health, the mental
health spaces as well.
Whether or not that's going tohappen is definitely to be seen,
and I think also there are alot of issues at this point with
(28:42):
the tourism related to, youknow, these, these retreats and
the you know quote unquote plantmedicines.
I think you know they'remedicines and they're, they're
effective.
They're not for everyone,they're not for all the time,
(29:03):
and so I think it's really amatter of treating them with
great care, respect and, youknow, maybe not jumping on the
bandwagon of it being trendyright now.
So a lot more to be said aboutit.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
But good advice, absolutely.
Well, this is the spot where Igive you your plug and, and you
know, get to share with usanything that you want to, as
far as how people can reach you.
Obviously, the book.
I'm looking forward to seeingthis when it comes out.
Looks like July 22.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The launch date that is correct, july 22.
Everywhere Books Are Sold,naturally, the Herbalist's Guide
to Health and TransformationReally a book for anyone who is
interested in better health,naturally, whether that is
herbal or not.
If you're interested inherbalism, this is the one for
you.
If you like to readentertaining books where you
also learn something, this oneis also for you.
(29:55):
Meantime, I can be found atRochelle Robinettecom and on
Instagram, rochelle Robinette.
We have a free newsletter thatwe send out herbalism
information every week.
That can be signed up for ineither of those places and
that's a great way to kind ofget into the scene that I've
(30:19):
created over the last decadeplus.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Interesting.
Well, this has been afascinating conversation and I'm
grateful that you came to joinus today and hopefully we'll
come back and talk more.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Wonderful Thanks, Joe .
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You bet this has been a Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and we'll see you next time.
Hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living
Podcast.
I'm your host, Joe Grumbine,and today we have a very special
guest.
Her name is Rochelle Robinetteand she is an herbalist and the
author of the forthcoming book,Naturally, the Herbalist's Guide
to Health and Transformation.
And, Rochelle, welcome to theshow.
It's great to have you here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you so much.
I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Nice.
So I have been involved withherbs for about 40 years and you
know I love to hear freshperspectives, and a new book
comes out is always exciting.
So I'd like to hear a littlebit from you.
What brings you here?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, first of all, I love tohear that you've been working
with the plants for 40 years.
That's incredible and you know,it reminds me of the fact that,
you know, herbalism is a partof so many of our lives already
and so many of us don't realizethat.
You know, it's in kitchens,it's in the backyard, it's it's
(01:07):
at the coffee shop, it's at thegrocery store, it's all around
us.
So you know, I think we're allprobably practicing herbalism
and in one way or another oneway or another, for sure.
Yeah, and, and realizing that,you know, and waking up to that,
as you well know, is lifechanging and health changing.
You know it's transformationalto realize that we're surrounded
(01:29):
by opportunities to be well, tobe better, to be more vital,
and we're surrounded by naturalmedicine.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know so the food aspect of health is one of the
most overlooked and importantpieces.
And you know, you drive downthe road and you see fast food
place after fast food place andthen you find some little corner
produce stand and that's wherefood actually is.
And you know, it's kind ofcrazy.
(02:00):
We've, we've, we're kind ofbackwards with all of that.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's true, it's really gotten to that point,
it's very true, and you knowsomething that your listeners
are probably very well aware of.
Um, but I like to remind peoplewho are less familiar with
herbalism you know thatherbalists will always start
with food.
You know it is our firstmedicine and if we can be well
with our food, much of which isalso, you know, herbal.
(02:27):
You think of blueberries orrosemary, or you know any of
these culinary spice vegetableor fruit is going to be an herb.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, I always say the definition of an herb is
a useful plant I make topicalskin products with them and
elixirs and things, and I, if Iput it in there and it came from
a plant, it's an herb.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's so true.
It's so true.
You know, and and if we can, ifwe can use food to reach a
state of you know, health andwellness and and not need herbs
as medicine on top of that, youknow any any herbalist will will
send you off with that.
You know, quote unquoteprotocol.
The goal is not to have, youknow, everybody taking a bunch
of herbs as medicine if we don'tneed them.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So yeah, chinese doctor, and they'll give you a
bowl of soup as a prescription,and you got to go to the Chinese
pharmacy and they pull out allthe parts and pieces and they go
, here you go, go make your soup.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Exactly, I love that, I love that, yeah.
So food is, food is critical,for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And to this.
Like you know, I have a storyhow I found my way to looking at
natural medicine.
But you know what got you tothis.
Where did you come from?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, well, I came from a to looking at natural
medicine, but you know what?
What got you to this?
Where did you come from?
Yeah, well, I came from a farmin the Pacific Northwest, the,
the.
The journey wasn't linearexactly.
I mean, in some ways it was.
You know, I grew up on thatfarm and I was surrounded by
nature.
We had an enormous garden.
My dad was an anesthesiologist,so I was exposed to Western
(04:06):
medicine and surgery and youknow bodies and all of the sort
of concepts of health from thatperspective.
And then my mom is a functionalhealth practitioner still.
So I had this sort of balanceof both.
I started taking supplementsand drinking teas and using
essential oils very, very young,you know, nice.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Built in a little bit to some degree.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It's very built in.
You know, I never intended tomake it my career.
I went straight from that farmto New York City to work in
fashion.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Wow, what a juxtaposition there.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Dichotomy it was intentionally.
I wanted nothing to do withdirt for a long time.
That said, my personal study andmy personal practice of all of
these things which all of thesethings is herbalism never
stopped from the time I wasyoung.
I mean I was in junior high orelementary school, maybe I was
(05:08):
doing a report on traditionalChinese medicine and acupuncture
, you know, I was.
I was studying every healingtradition that I could get my
hands on.
From the time that I was veryyoung, mostly because I was I
was fascinated with the slightlymore philosophical perspective
of this sort of work, which is,you know, how does what we take
(05:33):
in through our senses affect ourexperience of being alive?
Sights, sounds, thoughts, light, of course food, of course
herbs, sounds, thoughts, light,of course food, of course herbs.
So I was really interested insort of that root root root
cause, if you will, of how ourstates change, how our health
changes, how our mind changes.
(05:53):
So I studied everything I couldget my hands on and even when I
was working in fashion, I wasraw vegan.
I was using my vacation days togo to Peru to do ayahuasca.
So I was always doing it, justnot always professionally.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, I suspect you found thatthe answer was a lot more ways
than anybody thinks.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Exactly exactly, and the answer that I found was it's
herbalism, because herbalism isall of this.
It is that holistic, it isabout nutrition and fitness and
medicine and mental health andspirituality and community.
As you well know, it is notjust plants as medicine, it is
(06:36):
the whole human and the wholeenvironment we are.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Nature is you know it's infinite, you know you'll
never be able to learn it all,because it's so regional and you
go from one place to the nextand their understandings and
uses of the same plants, even insome cases, are so different
and the differences of theplants grown in one region to
another can be so different.
And that's when I discoveredthat I'm like oh cool, I found
(07:03):
my life's path, because I'llnever get to the end of the road
.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I love that.
Yeah, I felt the same way.
You know, it's like I can marrythis because it will continue
to evolve, and evolve and evolve, and, you know, we'll continue
to discover more plants andwe'll continue to discover more
about the plants that we havealready discovered and more
about our bodies, and our bodieswill change.
It's.
It is fascinating and it isendless for those who want to.
(07:28):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Today is such an exciting time to be in because
when I started this, therewasn't computers, there wasn't
internet, and I foundinformation in old books from
the used bookstore and that'swhere I began my journey and
there was a handful of new books.
But you know, you read, youread.
There was no AI, there was noWikipedia, there was no Google,
(07:52):
there wasn't any of that.
And you read and you tried, andyou met people and talked and
that was kind of a I would neverwant to learn any other way
because, I learned in a way thatreally stuck to me by just, you
know, trying and all that.
But nowadays, if I want to learnsomething, look up a recipe, I
get a head start that takes meprobably about five books of not
(08:16):
having to read.
So we get at least a lot of.
It's an exciting time to belearning today.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It is exciting and you know, I had the Internet,
you, I had the internet when Iwas studying these things, but
the wellness industry didn'texist in the way that it exists
now.
When I started I was connectinga lot of dots from the
herbalism world and then thebiohacking bodybuilding world,
(08:44):
herbalism world and then thebiohacking sort of bodybuilding
world.
You know they were very, veryearly to a lot of the
supplements and things that are,you know, popular now.
Creatine is a perfect example.
You know I was in those likechat rooms and things, and it's
like they're talking aboutsimilar things that the
herbalists are talking about andlike starting to become popular
.
And one of the other things thatI tried to do early on and that
(09:04):
I definitely still dointentionally, um is to present
herbalism in a way that is asaccessible as possible to as
wide an audience as possible,because I think if you love
herbalism or you're an herbalist, like you get it.
You know the vibe, you know thelook and feel, or you're an
herbalist, like you get it.
You know the vibe, you know thelook and feel, you know it can
(09:26):
be.
It has a distinct kind of brand, if you will, and I wanted to,
I wanted to appeal to and excite, you know again, as many people
as possible and kind of wake upthe realization that this is
not fringe, it is not esoteric,it is not unscientific, it is so
(09:50):
relevant and so important formodern life, even modern urban
life.
You know it's, it can be sexy,it's, you know it is, is fair,
whatever you want it to be baby.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Exactly so, baby, exactly so, yeah, yeah, so
that's awesome and you know, Ithink that if you put
information out there in a way,that sort of filters itself, the
people who really need to findyou will and the people that are
just glossing over.
They'll do that and probablynot waste your time, so it's a
(10:24):
good way to go about it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, it feels like, yeah, naturally I love
this labor of love.
I mean naturally really is thesort of capstone project, the
culmination of over a decade,you know, working in herbalism,
or a lifetime, you know.
(10:47):
If we want to look at it thatway, my lifetime, sure, and
Naturally is for anyone who islooking for better health.
Naturally it is about herbalismand anyone who's interested in
herbalism will learn plenty.
If you're a beginner, if you'rea professional, it's all in
(11:10):
there.
And if you've never even heardof herbalism before, it's also
the book for you.
It's really about, you know.
It includes case studies frommy work with clients.
It includes history, itincludes new science, it
includes recipes.
It's really meant to and it's aand it's a.
(11:31):
you know, I really strive tomake it a literary experience,
so you sit down and you can readthis book for pleasure and
learn a lot along the way.
I was really determined to nothave it feel like a textbook.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Technical books are hard to read and for us that
research.
You just power through it andread it.
But and then readable booksgenerally don't have a lot of
good content that you can usefor research.
So you're marrying the twotogether.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, I really, really was determined to do that
, and I think it speaks to thatprevious point that I mentioned
about making this accessible.
You know, I wanted it to be anenjoyable experience.
I wanted people to be moved, tobe inspired and also to be, you
know, highly educated by theend of the book about what
herbalism can do and understand.
You know, if I just want totake one step, great.
(12:19):
If I want to change my wholelife, great.
So I think the other thingthat's important to note about
the book is that most of thechapters focus on a specific
category of herbs, because Ifind categories of herbs to be a
very easy way to understand howto navigate the thousands.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I can appreciate that a lot.
I've read a lot of herbal booksand a lot of them are just
alphabetical.
And then you go to the table ofcontents and you try to find
references, and the categoriesare what you're generally
looking for.
I'm looking for things that dothis, and A's, b's and C's, so I
think that's a great move youdid there.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I think it's.
It was the way that I bestlearned herbs and it's the way
that I've taught them and Ithink it makes a lot of sense
for people when they hear youknow, I've got stress.
What are the herbs for stress?
You know?
That's kind of the way that wespeak about them.
Anyway, I need help sleeping.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
You for stress, you know that's kind of a way that
we speak about them.
Anyway, I need help sleeping.
You know there's a category forthat.
You know there's a category forneed states.
So so you start out and you'vegot these categories of herbs.
You talk about the plants, youtalk about what they do.
Do you talk about how to usethem?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I do, definitely, yeah.
So within each chapter there'sa case study, so I take through
a client that I had and theexact protocols that I used with
that client, and that includesherbs within that category, but
it also includes dietaryrecommendations, lifestyle
changes, and then there arespecifics in terms of, if I'm
(13:51):
talking about lavender, forexample, what's the best form to
take it in, what's arecommended dosage and what's
even more helpful I think forpeople is at the end of the book
.
There's a quite a large tableand it's a table of all of the
categories of herbs very easilyreferenced, you know, quickly.
You can just go look atlavender and say, okay, it's
(14:13):
best as a you know tea, forexample.
Or if I'm going to take acapsule, it's this capsule at
this dosage and here are anysafety concerns or notes.
You just reference it quickly.
So I think that tool you know,I haven't seen one of those in
the industry and it felt reallyimportant for me to include
something like that for peoplewho just want a quick you know,
(14:35):
quick check.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
I like that.
I like it when an herbal hassort of two ways to look things
up.
One would be the uses of thisplant and the other one would be
, you know, teas or tinctures orinfusions and plants to use in
them, and that gives you twodifferent ways to go about it.
So I think that's a great wayto go forward.
(14:57):
Um, I noticed you did mentionthat things to be aware of as
far as, like contraindications.
I think that's an importantpiece, because people think that
, oh, it's an herb, so it's safeand I can just eat some of it,
it's great, take more, it'sbetter.
And so it's safe and I can justeat some of it, it's great,
take more, it's better.
And then people don't realizethat that is absolutely not the
(15:20):
case and some herbs can make youreally sick and even worse.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, there's a great quote.
I don't recall it was anotherherbalist who wrote this
somewhere.
She said just because it'snatural doesn't mean you can be
as stupid with it as you want tobe.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Right, that's a great .
That's a great saying Cause Iknow people who've damaged their
organs by just going too crazywith herbs.
It's like they tell you to take25 milligrams, so they take
2,500, and it's just like no.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, Well, I mean, a really easy way to not do that
is to take as directed you knowright, start a little less than
they tell you.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, up a little bit and see how you feel.
You know, take time with it.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, and I really, I really work hard to ease the
fears around the safety withherbs, because I think there are
so many barriers to entryalready that concern of theirs,
you know, about their safety isit's overblown, of course.
Of course safety concerns exist, especially if we're taking,
(16:27):
you know, 100 times what therecommend.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
That's generally where the problems come from.
Yeah, or a cup of tea, unlessyou're when the problems come
from.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yeah or poor quality.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Nobody's going to get sick from a cup of tea, unless
you're, you know, highlyallergic to something, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Exactly so you know, I think there are.
you know, generally, again, forthe general population, you know
what's available on the marketfrom reputable providers that is
high quality, that has aspecific, you know, dosage
recommendation on the product isnot something that we need to
be afraid of.
If anybody is taking medication, of course, you know you need
(17:00):
to check with a healthcareprovider and there are certain
herbs that you know we need tobe especially careful with.
But, like herb, you knowcontraindications within the
herbal world.
So, like herb-herb interactionsthat are, you know, dangerous,
are so uncommon and takingreasonable doses, you're
probably not going to have any,yeah yeah, of course.
(17:22):
So it's you know, it's somethingthat I like to to speak about,
of course, but really to try toto downplay responsibly, because
I think that's actually thetruth.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
That's the key really is that the client has to be
their own doctor and the clienthas to be mindful of what
they're doing, and they're theonly ones that know themselves
and how they feel and whatthey're doing.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's true , it's true, and you know that
that reminds me of a relatedpoint in terms of, you know, our
taking our health and ourhealth into our own hands.
You know there are some recipesin the book as well, but I'm
pretty anti-recipe and thereason for that is that I really
, you know, I've always tried toteach people how to be
(18:11):
empowered to think forthemselves, to go beyond being
told what to do and to learn howto do it on their own, because
we can follow recipes, you know,until the end of time, but if
we don't have the right recipefor that thing, that happens
later on.
You know, what are we going todo?
Have we learned how to you know?
(18:32):
Have we learned these plans?
Have we learned our bodies insuch a way that we can create
our own recipe?
So I provide recipes, but Iprovide them as templates.
You know that can be customizedand personalized, because also
there's a compliance issue.
If you're like, well, this isthe recipe, but I don't like the
way this herb tastes.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Right, then what do you do?
You know Something else?
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that'sfantastic.
I think that, ultimately, thepeople that go into this, we all
start out with somebody else'srecipes and then we start
tweaking on them and the nextthing you know, you're like oh,
I see how this works as aformulator.
That's how I learned.
I didn't go to school for it, Ijust did it, and when I saw
that things worked, I kept doingthem, and if they didn't work,
(19:10):
I did something else.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Formulating is fascinating and so much fun.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's myfavorite part.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, mine too, I love to.
I just you know people are like, oh this, and that I'm a
tinkerer, I just like to tinkerwith things until I find
something that's nice.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah and yeah.
And you know I can understand.
You know, if people arestarting out like that's not
necessarily how they want tostart out.
I think I did.
I think, like you, I like tolearn about it and then try it.
You know, I did everything sortof on myself first.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Absolutely.
I'm the first test subject.
If I have an issue with it,then we put off.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
If I don't, then I got a few close friends that are
secondary test subjects and wego from there.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great wayto live, you know it's.
It's that direct experience andlike we have to, you know we
need to see the plant, taste it,touch it, feel it.
You can read about it in a book, you can read about life in a
book, but you know when you tryit for yourself, then then you
know in a different way.
(20:07):
So I love it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Now, with herbs it's.
It's kind of when you'relooking at herbs in science,
it's kind of a complicated routebecause you have most herbs
contain multiple compounds andyou have this entourage effect
of multiple compounds.
Then you deal with supplementsand you're dealing with
generally single molecule, andso you have two different
elements, and you were talkingabout both supplements and herbs
(20:33):
.
How do you integrate these two?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, I definitely use both.
I'm a big fan of both, um, yeah, but it's a.
It's a great point, animportant point, and actually it
reminds me of, you know, thehypothetical person who's taking
100 times the recommended dose.
That's what happens withsupplements we isolate a
compound, concentrate it, takeit that way, um, and that's you
know.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And ironically, you know, there's so much less fear
in the market of thesesupplements than there are herbs
right, Exactly so over thecounter status, and all of a
sudden it's just nothing couldgo wrong.
Fda said it's okay, Right on,yeah so so, yeah, I like to work
with both.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
I mean, there are some companies that do some
really brilliant formulationsthat include the nutraceuticals,
you know, as well as the herbs.
I love that.
I like to see, I really like tosee that.
Actually, I think that excitesme and it always has.
Yeah, you know, and when I'mcreating protocols for people,
if I want like, for example, Ilove amino acids, I find them
(21:32):
very, you know, easy to workwith wide therapeutic range.
So I might, you know, add and Itake those on my own routine as
well as a bunch of herbs, soit's really about the best
ingredient for the job.
But you know it's typically aplant-based or you know an
herbal blend.
But if there's, you know wewant to put some extra in there,
(21:53):
or you know something, then byall means means let's do that
agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I think when you know, even if it is uh extracted
or isolated from an animalproduct, by the time it's a
single molecule.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I don't think it matters yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
that that could be a like anethical thing, depending on the
person.
But uh, yeah, I don't discloseit, but I would.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I would.
It seems to me that you know ifyou got the compound.
It doesn't.
It is the compound whereverfrom.
Yeah, so tell me about yourpractice.
I know that you know you'retalking about clients and
whatnot.
How do people interact with youpersonally?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, well, I have actually retired from private
practice after many years andmany, many clients and many
classes and speaking engagements.
So I, at this point, I doeducation to wider audiences, so
we produce a lot of content, Iwrite a lot, I teach a lot
online or, you know, speakingengagements, that sort of thing.
(22:55):
But I moved away from theprivate practice around the time
that I started writing the book, maybe a little bit before that
, just because I wanted to scalea bit.
You know, so much that you learnwhen you're working one on one
with people.
But it got to a point where,just personally and
(23:16):
professionally, I was wanting tobranch out and also, you know,
to write a book like thisrequires an incredible amount of
time.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
People have no idea what it takes to write a book,
you got to write a book.
You got to write a book.
I'm like, yeah, I have to stopeverything else for a long
period of time and I've gotthings I'm doing.
So, yeah's, it's not everybodycan just write a book, that's
for sure a good one traumatic.
Yeah, no, that's for sure yeah,all the time and all the people
(23:46):
that you've worked with alwayslike to catch some kind of a
profound anecdote that no doubtthey had some interactions with
people that were just amazing.
You know where somebody had atransformation or an epiphany or
just some major positive change.
What kind of tell me one of thestories that came along your
(24:10):
path?
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, there were so many of those.
I mean, I can't count thenumber of times that I, you know
, finished with a client andjust cried because it was
amazing to see their lives, howtheir lives had changed.
And usually you know alwaysactually that that comes because
they eventually took thispractice into their own hands
(24:34):
and began to their life.
You know more and more broadly,I think the one story that I
referenced most often, you know,when I'm thinking about these
transformations is one that Iincluded in, naturally and it's
a client when it was one of myvery first clients and we saw
each other for years and shecame in with digestive issues,
(24:56):
you know, maybe a little bit ofweight loss, that she was
looking to achieve some fairlyminor things, and we ended up
working together for years asher health evolved, as she got
pregnant, as she, you know, hadher children.
I ended up seeing her husbandas well.
But there was this point whereyou know she'd changed her diet,
(25:18):
she'd changed her lifestyle,she changed her relationship to
fitness.
You know all these things andshe comes to me and she says so.
This might sound strange, butlike do you think that herbalism
could help me start playing thepiano again.
I used to play the piano and Iloved it.
It brought me so much joy.
But I've lost it now that Ihave, you know, two kids and I'm
(25:40):
really, really busy, and youknow, long story short, yes, she
ended up playing the pianoagain, but the fact that she was
thinking that way was that wasit.
It was, you know.
Can you know this, thislifestyle, this lifestyle, this
holistic way of thinking andliving?
(26:01):
Where can it apply?
The answer is it can apply toanything, everywhere, exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I agree A hundred percent.
It's a tool to be used in anyway that you need it, and
there's something for everybodyif you look in the right places,
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, so I love that story.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
She was very special has there been anybody that you
really weren't able to help andit was probably because of their
own, not willingness, but justcurious.
I mean, there's always thatstubborn client that you're just
like, I don't know, it doesn'twork, it doesn't work, it
doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
That's great.
You know this sounds a littlebit unlikely, but it is true.
There was one person.
In all of the people that I saw, there was one person who was
really struggling to change.
It wasn't that they weren'tseeing results, but they were.
There was a lot of resistance.
You know, struggle, struggle.
And then, finally, she cameback to me and she said you know
(26:56):
what I realized?
I don't want to change, eventhough that's what it always
boils down to.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's always.
Yeah, I like the chaos, I likethe problem.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I know, I know that these things are not
healthy for me.
I've realized that they give mea certain kind of pleasure
because I don't have that inthis other part of my life, and
so I'm going to choose tocontinue to live the way that
I've lived.
But you know, she was helpedbecause she realized that.
You know.
So so much of this work alsoresembles therapy, I mean
(27:31):
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know, it's always when somebody wants to get
better that you.
You end up being a therapist,no matter what, and you have
whatever tools you use.
Well, I've got a final question.
You had mentioned that you'dgone to Peru, done ayahuasca.
I've worked with and studiedwhat we call ethnobotanicals for
40 years and I'm just curiousToday there's this resurgence in
(27:54):
what they call plant medicine.
You know there's a lot ofpeople experimenting and using
and working with some powerfulplant medicines.
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
plants, those botanicals are certainly
powerful and have the potentialto be transformational in the
right, you know context, and Ithink there's an opportunity for
them to revolutionize, you know, mental health, the mental
health spaces as well.
Whether or not that's going tohappen is definitely to be seen,
and I think also there are alot of issues at this point with
(28:42):
the tourism related to, youknow, these, these retreats and
the you know quote unquote plantmedicines.
I think you know they'remedicines and they're, they're
effective.
They're not for everyone,they're not for all the time,
(29:03):
and so I think it's really amatter of treating them with
great care, respect and, youknow, maybe not jumping on the
bandwagon of it being trendyright now.
So a lot more to be said aboutit.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
But good advice, absolutely.
Well, this is the spot where Igive you your plug and, and you
know, get to share with usanything that you want to, as
far as how people can reach you.
Obviously, the book.
I'm looking forward to seeingthis when it comes out.
Looks like July 22.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The launch date that is correct, july 22.
Everywhere Books Are Sold,naturally, the Herbalist's Guide
to Health and TransformationReally a book for anyone who is
interested in better health,naturally, whether that is
herbal or not.
If you're interested inherbalism, this is the one for
you.
If you like to readentertaining books where you
also learn something, this oneis also for you.
(29:55):
Meantime, I can be found atRochelle Robinettecom and on
Instagram, rochelle Robinette.
We have a free newsletter thatwe send out herbalism
information every week.
That can be signed up for ineither of those places and
that's a great way to kind ofget into the scene that I've
(30:19):
created over the last decadeplus.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Interesting.
Well, this has been afascinating conversation and I'm
grateful that you came to joinus today and hopefully we'll
come back and talk more.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Wonderful Thanks, Joe .
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You bet this has been a Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and we'll see you next time.
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