May 16, 2025 • 32 mins
What happens when you cut off cancer's food supply? Dr. Robert Hoffman has spent five decades studying this question, discovering that cancer cells are uniquely addicted to the amino acid methionine. His groundbreaking work with methioninase—an enzyme that breaks down this critical nutrient—is now transforming lives.
The journey to this breakthrough wasn't straightforward. After a devastating setback that nearly ended the project, researchers made a surprising discovery: methioninase could be effective when taken orally, a rare quality for enzyme treatments. This resilient bacterial enzyme survives stomach acid and digestive processes, allowing it to deplete methionine in the digestive system without harmful side effects.
We witness this science in action through host Joe Grumbine's remarkable personal cancer journey. Combining conventional chemotherapy with methionine restriction through diet and supplementation, Joe reports significant tumor shrinkage that has impressed his medical team. His quality of life has dramatically improved—better sleep, increased energy, stable weight, and renewed appetite—all signs pointing toward potential complete remission.
This episode illuminates the real process of scientific discovery: not just eureka moments, but persistence through setbacks, logical thinking, hard work, and sometimes a bit of luck. Dr. Hoffman emphasizes that even after achieving "no evaluable disease" status, maintenance therapy remains crucial to prevent recurrence, shifting our understanding from "beating" cancer once to managing it long-term.
For anyone facing a cancer diagnosis or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers both hope and practical direction. The weekly support meetings mentioned provide community knowledge and resources that complement medical treatment—because patients who actively engage with their healing process consistently achieve better outcomes than those taking a passive approach.
Ready to learn more about methionine restriction or connect with this supportive community? The link to weekly Sunday meetings is in the show notes, or reach out to Joe directly to join this paradigm-shifting approach to cancer care.
Intro for podcast
Here is the link for Sunday's 4 pm Pacific time Zoom meeting
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I have today with us Dr
Robert Hoffman joining us.
And, dr Robert, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing pretty good , joe, no complaints.
Got some really good news fromuh the doctor in japan.
One of the uh breast cancerpatients with uh very extensive
metastasis is down to onemetastasis now with right okay.
(00:35):
So she, she's getting the work,she's getting chemo, she's
getting immunotherapy, she'sgetting methioninase, uh, and
she's getting radiation.
Okay, and sometimes you got togo all the way, um what it takes
you do what it takes exactly,and is that the one metastasis
(00:55):
now, wow, and dr sato is, uh,very pleased, yes and um, well,
we'll, we'll go from there.
He just gave her a dose ofradiation on some lymph node
metastasis.
It's very advanced breastcancer, but let's see.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You know and that's just a testament to the things
we've been talking about youknow, there's not one answer for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh, no, no, we dig in , it's so individualized.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Joe, yes, and we have to be open-minded to whatever's
going to work and it might notsuit our fancy People come and
say I'm not going to take chemo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, if you have advanced disease, that's the
wrong decision.
You're right.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I was one of them when I first walked into this.
That was my position and wow,look at what you saw.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Whatever you did, the tumor kept growing Exactly Once
we combine the chemo and themethioninase.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's just flying away Exactly.
Well, we're going to get intomy update in a little bit.
I did want to get back into ourconversation about you and your
work and you know I like peopleto understand.
People think they know howscience works and they think
they know how discoveries aremade and they think they know
how knowledge progresses.
(02:18):
And I think most people are atvery least under-informed, many
times misinformed and most ofthe time just plain ignorant.
And I think that if we can shedlight on the actual process of
things and the back and forthand the up and down and you know
(02:39):
, just to understand howknowledge is gained and verified
and validated, and that's howscience actually happens.
It doesn't just happen becausea couple of scientists do a
couple of things and whammo, wehave a new discovery.
You know, 50 years ago youbecame aware of the value of
(03:04):
methioninase and its effect oncancer and the actual need that
cancer cells have to reproduceand to divide and all the things
that they do, their reliance onmethionine.
You came to that discovery andyou've been working on resolving
mechanisms and validating andproving this for the last 50
(03:29):
years and I want to kind ofunderstand a little bit about
these processes.
You know you share with mepapers that you've written and
co-authored and studies thathave been done and these
experiments, and I want tounderstand for myself a little
bit about your process of youknow how do you go about.
(03:54):
You know you just you're tryingto prove how this works.
You're trying to understand howthese cancer cells work and and
how that we can affect them,how these cancer cells work and
how that we can affect them, andto even prove that this enzyme
restricts this amino acid thatthe cancer needs, and to
(04:14):
actually say, well, that had aneffect.
And we have to be able to proveit in such a way that we can
replicate it, that we can seethe same thing over and over
again and see it in an animal,see it in a human, see it in
vitro, see it in all thesedifferent ways.
Maybe share a little bit aboutthat process.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Okay, Joe.
So let me tell you a little bitabout our experience developing
methioninase.
Maybe that's a good example.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So we're not the inventor of methioninase, but we
developed it all the way to theclinic.
Let's see 25 years, just that.
(05:13):
And there was a huge gap.
So we were developingmethioninase.
This is just telling you howscience works up and down.
We were developing it, we weretesting it in mice.
The mice had tumors oh boy, wehad good effect.
We would combine themethioninase with chemo.
We would get a better effect onthe tumors in the mice for
years and years.
(05:35):
And we even put it in humans inthe late 90s, mid-90s, mid-late
90s on a one-shot deal.
And we found, wow, we couldjust deplete the patient of
methionine.
Woo, good, these werelate-stage cancer patients
across the border in Tijuana,working with my colleague, dr
(05:58):
Zavala.
Well then we worked with aJapanese company and tried to
test the methioninase in monkeys.
They didn't have cancer, it wasa safety test.
And we killed a monkey, andthat was very sad.
(06:23):
This was using methioninase asan injectable and we killed a
monkey, and that was very sad.
This was using methioninase asan injectable and for about 15
years we almost gave up theproject.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Over a monkey.
What are we going to do?
We knew we could modify themethioninase.
The monkey died from what'scalled anaphylaxis, a severe
allergic reaction.
When you repeatedly dose theanimal intravenously and
(07:02):
remember that the origin of thismethioninase is from bacteria,
so it's a very foreign enzyme.
The body sees that as ooh,what's coming in me?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we were very for 15 years.
We were really down in thedumps.
And then Dr Han and DrKawaguchi in the lab.
They didn't even tell me.
They said they started givingthe mice methionine, by mouth
methionase.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And it worked.
It worked just as well as whenyou injected it IV.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Holy moly, that's rare, especially for an amoeba.
Yeah, and so that changedeverything, Joe.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
We were on a roll and within two years we were giving
patients the methioninase bymouth and we had.
You know we didn't see miracles, but we had a lot of good
results and we published about12 of them.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And you didn't have any negative effects, though Did
you have anybody with it?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, We've given methioninase to about 340
patients.
Not one complaint of a negativeeffect, not one.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I agree, I don't have any.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's totally this.
I can say it's totally safebecause it stays in the
digestive system.
It breaks down the methioninethat comes in food you eat, even
the low methionine food, and itbreaks down methionine that
sometimes circulates back intothe digestive system.
(08:43):
That's made by the body but noside effects.
So I can say that.
So science involves trying tothink logically, design a good
experiment that will answer thevery specific question you want
(09:03):
to answer get data.
Answer a very specific question.
You want to answer get data.
Science also involves hangingin there when it's tough going,
like we did for 15 years, and itinvolves luck.
And you know Dr Hahn and DrKawaguchi had a great idea, but
(09:24):
they were also lucky that thisparticular enzyme, the gene of
which comes from this very toughsoil bacterium it's called
Pseudomonas pudida.
This bacterium is one heck of atough guy.
It can survive hightemperatures, acidity.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It can survive the conditions in the stomach and in
the gut, the stomach has ph ofI don't know, very low yeah,
yeah, the proteins that you eatright in your hamburger or
whatever, and it but it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And you can't give insulin by mouth.
Oh no, it would.
It would just be chopped upright but methionin, the
pseudomonas, methioninase, if Icould call it.
That, is one heck of a toughguy and it survives the acidity
of the stomach.
It survives all these so-calledproteolytic enzymes that break
(10:19):
down proteins.
Methionin is a typical protein.
It doesn't break it downbecause it's so tough.
So science is good thinking,logical thinking and design of
the experiments.
Hard work to do the experiments, sometimes night and day, and
when things aren't going yourway.
You got to hang in there if youreally believe in what you do,
(10:43):
and we hung in there for 15years.
And it involves luck.
It's a human endeavor.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Right, right Agreed.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Agreed and so.
And scientists are all kinds ofdifferent people Smart some,
Some not so smart, Somehardworking, Some not so
hardworking, some dedicated,some not so dedicated.
It's the same group of humans.
Some are crooks, unfortunatelysteal each other's stuff, but
(11:19):
those are the minority.
The majority are good people.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think, like most things, I think if you take any
cross-section of humanity,you'll find a similar breakdown.
That's right.
Well, I think that's a greatperspective and point of view.
I think, you know, every oncein a while, a discovery is made
that somebody just stumbles upona thing, and that happens
(11:44):
regularly enough because peopleare.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Sometimes people call it serendipity.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's total luck, yeah , and you know what Good on them
If you stumble into somethinggood.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Whatever you get, it's good Exactly the good luck
is not so common, but hey, ifyou get it, you take it.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Exactly exactly.
And it's interesting becausesometimes you stumble on a
discovery and you get sort of abig picture understanding of
something.
You don't really understand it,but you can observe it and
sometimes you don't understandit at all Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It takes another 40 years for you to figure out the
results of your own experiment.
Absolutely, absolutely, and Ithink this is important.
We made this discovery ofmethionine addiction in 1976.
Right, and I really didn't seethe real ramifications of it
until these guys in Singaporepublished a similar experiment
(12:46):
43 years later.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I said, holy, you know what?
We've got something back in 76.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, I love it , I love it.
Well, I got to tell you Icouldn't be happier that you
made those discoveries because Iam confident that my now
understanding of this and mychanging in my diet and adding
that methionine is instrumentalin the results that I've gotten.
(13:15):
It's not the only thing thatcaused them, but it certainly
had a big impact and I'mconfident of that and I'm very
grateful that you're our posterboy show.
Oh you bet, and I sing loudlyto this.
So I do want to give an update.
So when we last spoke, I hadmade some remarkable progress
and that has continued.
(13:36):
This tumor has continued toshrink.
I can I can actually feel itshrinking sometimes as it was
going the other direction.
It was hurting and stretchingand popping and pushing on
nerves and now I feel itretracting and there's almost
like that itchy, crampingfeeling of when you're getting
(13:58):
better, when a muscle injurystarts to heal.
It's almost like that.
Every once in a while I feelit's like stretching and I know
it's falling back into place.
And I had a meeting with thenurse practitioner that oversees
the chemotherapy and I did avideo conference with her and
(14:19):
when she saw me, her eyes gotbig and her smile got big and
she said whoa, really, oh my God, yeah, she was just blown away.
And she says what happened toyou?
I says it's working and I tookyour advice.
I didn't go talking about allthe things I did, I just said
(14:41):
it's working.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, be the mystery man.
I just said it's working, andno be the mystery man.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I just said it's working.
And and I says I sayseverything that we're doing is
working.
And she says it's thechemotherapy.
I go you bet.
I said it's working, that's allI care about.
And I told her.
I said you know, um, I, I'vebeen able to uh, to not have to
take the nausea medicine.
(15:05):
I said I've got a littlenauseous, but the side effects
from that was just untenable.
I don't want to be constipatedand I don't want headaches.
I'd rather be a little seasick,as long as I can eat.
And I said you know, I took alittle cannabis and it helped
calm me down.
I don't even need to do thatanymore.
I got it under control.
My appetite's great.
(15:31):
What happens is you get thiscascade of problems.
So this thing was pushing on mythroat, it was raising my heart
pressure, my blood pressure,pushing on my artery, it was
causing me pain.
So I wasn't sleeping Well, youdon't sleep.
All of a sudden, everythingstarts going out of whack.
And my appetite wasn't greatbecause I wasn't sleeping.
Everything was just out ofwhack.
The second it started to shrink.
(15:52):
The first thing that started tohappen was I started to sleep.
The second, I got some sleep.
All of a sudden, everythingstarts to shift.
My energy level started toraise up.
I started moving around more, Istarted walking, I started
getting a little bit of exercise.
Next thing I know I get alittle more hungry and I'm
staying tight on my diet.
(16:13):
I've increased the methionineA's.
Joe, you're going to have tocontinue on that indefinitely.
Oh, you bet I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's like I said, said whatever it may be forever.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I don't know, it may be.
Whatever it is, if that's theprice I gotta pay, I'll pay it
every day.
That's an easy price to pay.
Anyways, I'm gaining strength.
I'm gaining, gaining anappetite.
So I'm eating more vegetablesand eating more, a lot of fruit
and, you know, doing my thingright and, um, getting stronger,
(16:43):
gaining a little bit of weight.
I had lost a bunch of weightbecause I fasted before the
chemo and then I didn't have anyappetite for a while and I got
below what I wanted to.
So I've been pushing, eatingbetter and just keeping it
straight, and I got back up tomy weight that I want to be at,
which is still real low, butit's manageable and I'm keeping
(17:06):
my energy level.
Everything's good.
So that was a big change.
And you know, one of the sideeffects from one of the drugs is
it can make some ulcers in yourmouth.
It goes after the membranes andI said, well, I got baking soda
brushing my teeth with that andthat alkalizes the membrane,
(17:28):
keeps that from happening.
And I got this saline, bufferedsaline solution, rinsing my
mouth out with that and in acouple of days it cleared it up
as long as I was able to, youknow not have a raw mouth.
I can eat and my appetite keptgetting better.
So I've just been eating mycucumbers and apples and salads
(17:51):
and Fantastic Pias andstrawberries, and you know, just
going at it, and I eat mylittle bit of beans and rice and
potatoes and take my enzyme andI'm taking that medical food,
that hominix, that two, threetimes a day.
So I get fantastic.
I get nutrients with nomethionine, no cysteine and, um,
(18:11):
it's working.
And you know the only realnegative side effect, as you can
see, you're getting, I'mgetting more forehead and uh, I
don't see that at all I couldn'tcare less.
I told my wife, I go, I'm gonnaget me a few hats and we're just
gonna ride through this.
Who cares never die.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
You know, high forehead means high iq yeah
there you go.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I'm getting smarter as the day goes by.
There you go and you knowwhat's happening is.
Today I had a meeting with themedical oncologist In person.
Or Zoom, no Zoom, and I did thesame thing.
She, her eyes got so big.
Now, remember, holy moly, yeah,remember, she's the one that
(18:56):
originally was not reallyinterested in anything.
She wanted the radiation, chemoradiation, chemo radiation.
You were going to get both.
Yeah, that's what she wanted,and it was going to be a lot of
radiation.
And I wasn't getting it cleared.
This thing was getting worseand worse.
That's when we came up withthis plan.
I offered it to her and it madesense.
(19:19):
It fit in her guidelines offirst-line therapies and she
agreed to it.
And the second, she agreed toit.
That's when everything shiftedand she realized that I'm doing
my work.
I'm not trying to fight her, Iam trying to solve this problem.
And it was urgent.
And she was willing to changeher protocol.
(19:42):
She submitted it.
Give it to change her protocol.
She submitted it.
Give it back to Joe, yes.
And so today she was justtickled.
She was so happy and she saidyou know, that's the first time
she said we might be able totake this thing down to zero
with this, and I said we'regoing to do whatever it takes.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, that's what happened to Ms Ozumi.
I know that I think so, joe.
I think so.
This and I said we're going todo whatever it takes.
That's what happened to missozumi.
I know that I think so, joe.
I think so.
But keep this in mind forfuture.
If we're going to get down tozero, I want you to do what Ms
Hozumi is doing Negotiate withyour medical oncologist.
What you're taking now isreally called induction chemo.
(20:23):
Right, you know the inductionperiod, getting rid of the damn
thing Right.
But after that, when it lookslike zero, I want her to put you
on some other.
Chemo for maintenance.
Okay, maintenance chemo formaintenance.
Okay, maintenance chemo Fairenough.
Long term, years and years,that's fine.
(20:43):
So this thing never, ever comesback.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I would totally.
I will propose that to her.
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We're going to go down to zero first.
Yeah absolutely, and I love theway she said that because I
also think so.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, I love the way she said that, because I also
think so, yes, and so that's myhope is that I can manage the
chemo because there's not goingto be a long-term side effect.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You know, and chemo, if you do things right, like you
, fast around it and stuff, itain't that bad.
Everybody's so terrified ofchemo.
Oh, chemo, it's not so bad Ifyou just do a few things like
fasting and follow dr exome.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It's okay, I'm doing it all and and I, I, if, if.
It's here's the thing.
When I did that first round, Iwas at the weakest point in my
life and I and I survived it,and now I'm 10 times stronger
than I was that first time.
I suspect Monday, when I go in,I'm going to have a much better
(21:45):
recovery period and I'm goingat it the same way.
I'm beginning my fast tomorrow.
I'm eating my last good meal.
Tonight.
I'm doing a fasting mimicking.
I'm not going a straight fastbecause I it's okay exome does
too.
I think I'm just going zeromethionine and I'm, I'm, I'm
doubling, still doubling up.
(22:06):
The methionine is.
That's my biggest thing is thatcancer gets no methionine for
the next three days, not any,and so that that's gonna that's
my really good plus I'm doingthe oxygen therapy and and all,
the all the other things I'mdoing that just help give me
(22:27):
strength and uh, hey, listenit's whatever works.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yes, you're doing good, I wouldn't change anything
.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I'm not exactly, and that's what she said.
She goes.
You just keep doing whatyou're'm not exactly and that's
what she said she goes you justkeep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I says you know, that's what they say.
The open-minded doc who doesn'treally want to know what you're
doing but but is so happy withthe result, just says keep doing
what you're doing.
That's what the doctor wastelling the parents of one of
our little girls with braincancer she was doing.
Good.
The doc would say, hey,whatever you're doing yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And that's what really makes me feel good that
I've got a team that supports myhealth.
It's not.
They don't have their agenda.
And I asked her about umgetting the circulating tumor
cell test and she says I can'treally approve that.
That doesn't.
There's not really evidencethat's going to do what I need.
But she did.
(23:22):
Dr Castro will probably approveit, I agree.
But she also said she did order,I think.
So she did order another testthat's going to show some
markers and she had ordered itpreviously.
But remember they changed thewhole protocol and she said that
got lost in the in the in the.
It's okay, she said, but she'sordering it.
(23:43):
So prior to monday when I do mychemo, they're going to pull
that first test.
So she goes.
We have a test from back innovember when we did the, when
we did the last ct scan, andwe're going to have one now.
So she says we're going tofollow that along and she's
going to do.
She's going to order a scanabout three weeks after my third
(24:06):
round and we're going to beable to yeah, everything we
talked about.
And and I asked her I go, are wegoing to be able to do a scan
after this?
She goes, yep, she goes.
Let's wait until the thirdround.
Give it a couple three weeksafterward, and then we'll do the
next scan.
So we're on point.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Okay, and if you're what they call NED no evaluable
disease NED then you're going totell her I want maintenance
chemo, I want it A hundredpercent, you bet I'm right there
.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
This port is good for 50 years.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Because, Joe, even when you're NED by all the scans
, the chances are 99.999% youstill got a bunch of cancer
cells in there and we've got tokeep them sleeping.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I understand.
I'm right there with you.
I've seen it happen.
You know, in all thisexperience that I have with
cancer patients, I've watchedexactly what you're talking
about.
They go all the way intoremission.
They go back to their life andthen boom, a week, a month, a
year, year, two years, fiveyears later it comes back, and
it usually comes back.
Go back to the old life.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You gotta keep with the cancer life.
You keep this thing from comingback.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
The old life is over I understand and I'm right there
.
I embrace the new life.
I I welcome my new me all daylong.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I I'm a better me for it and, uh, I I'd rather live a
long inspiration is you knowthat lady that came on late on
the zoom?
Oh, I get all these differenttheories.
Yeah, I, I wish she would havecome on and seen you but okay
whatever well, you know what?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
you never know people .
People hear a thing and theycome back.
I, I got a lady, yeah yeah youknow, yesterday and her son was
just diagnosed withnon-hodgkin's lymphoma and she's
right now her.
A lady contacted me yesterday.
Okay, boy, she needs to get onthe zoom, that's it, and so
we're.
We're playing phone tag.
(26:13):
I haven't had a chance toconsult with her yet, but that's
exactly what's going to happen.
I'm going to send hereverything and hopefully bring
her on Sunday's call.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, well, you know, bring the horse to the water
Every time, every time.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So I just know that you know, this experience that
I'm going through has turned outto be a gift, and I've gotten a
gift of understanding of howpeople can help themselves.
I'm demonstrating it, I, I.
I took photographs twice a dayfor the past two months, so I
(26:48):
have a whole show.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I want you to share those with me.
I want to write up your as you,as a case report.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I will send you a.
It's a document that has allthe pictures in it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Okay, From the big baseball on down.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
All the way, it's just a whole series of pictures,
okay.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's what I want, Joe.
It's going to be a beautifulcase report.
Of course, we won't use yourname and we'll put something
over your eyes.
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
You can use me if you want.
It doesn't matter, I'm an openbook.
Okay, joe, I gladly help.
You're going to help millionsof people.
I know that, and I'm glad toshare everything we're doing.
I'm here.
I want as many people tobenefit as can.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's what they're going to Joe.
All these people say I get allthese theories.
I'm overwhelmed.
Hey, take a look at Joe,Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And I'll share my story with anybody that'll
listen.
Okay, you and Chihiro.
You know, you bet she's myinspiration when I saw what
happened to her.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I said I want that You're going to be a lot of
other people's inspiration.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Well, you know, between Shahiro and Dr Exime,
those two have just been really–I tell you, dr Exime is an
angel from heaven, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I talk to him regularly.
I talk to him probably morethan I talk to you.
Wow, I call him up in themorning he is such a genius.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh my God, and so kind and shares everything.
Yes, yes, oh my God, and sokind and shares everything.
Yes, and you know he's almoststarting year five now.
I know he was given a year fouryears ago and here he is, he's
just staying ahead of it.
I love it With his brain, withhis dedication, with his
(28:35):
motivation, with his greatenthusiasm to learn.
Yes, and you know, that's theway it is, joe the cancer
patient who just sits there andis passive about everything and
doesn't want to learn.
They ain't going to make it.
No, you've got to give iteverything you've got.
You've got to take it into yourown hands.
You've got to be so positive.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yes, 100%.
I've been able to share somereally you know day-to-day stuff
with him and he always takes mycall or he gets back to me and
he's given me just amazingadvice on getting the labs.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And just you know.
He gave me the information.
He was a practicing surgeon for35 years.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, I have no doubt he knows everything.
Yeah, he does.
He knows his science.
He knows, I mean, hisunderstanding of the things he
shares with me.
I understand at a veryrudimentary level and he's just
breaking it down molecularly.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I love it.
He breaks it down so everybodycan understand it.
Absolutely, it's not.
It's all his stuff isunderstandable.
Absolutely, it's not.
It's all this stuff isunderstandable.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, you know, the thing that's so great is on
Sunday at four o'clock Pacifictime every week, this whole
group of people gets togetherand shares their thoughts and
ideas.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And it's just, in my opinion, one of the most
valuable tools out there is thisthink tank of people, and new
people come, old people come,people that have been, people
that hang in there week afterweek.
They do better.
Yes, you know the one-timers.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Nope, you're going to get what you get.
No, no, I haven't missed a week.
Even if I wasn't feeling I wasin bad shape a couple of weeks,
I still showed up.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I shared what I can all the goodies yeah, all of it,
all of it.
So it's, it's powerful and, toanybody who's listening, the
link is in the show notes um,contact me, I'm easy to reach
and, uh, if you want to learnabout, uh, this thing that I'm
doing with this diet andmethionine is Dr Hoffman is
available.
(30:38):
He, he is been a godsend, awealth of information and
resources and just so glad to bea part of this.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
We're glad you'll be part of it too, joe.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We're a team.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
We're a team, we're moving, we're shifting that
paradigm.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yes, we are, and I'm going to keep on going until we
get it done.
Okay, all right, robert.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us again.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
We'll see you on Sunday.
My pleasure, Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I look forward to the next one.
You bet All right everybody.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And we'll see you on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yes, next Sunday, all right.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Bye Joe and bye all the podcasters.
Well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and I have today with us Dr
Robert Hoffman joining us.
And, dr Robert, how are youdoing today?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm doing pretty good , joe, no complaints.
Got some really good news fromuh the doctor in japan.
One of the uh breast cancerpatients with uh very extensive
metastasis is down to onemetastasis now with right okay.
(00:35):
So she, she's getting the work,she's getting chemo, she's
getting immunotherapy, she'sgetting methioninase, uh, and
she's getting radiation.
Okay, and sometimes you got togo all the way, um what it takes
you do what it takes exactly,and is that the one metastasis
(00:55):
now, wow, and dr sato is, uh,very pleased, yes and um, well,
we'll, we'll go from there.
He just gave her a dose ofradiation on some lymph node
metastasis.
It's very advanced breastcancer, but let's see.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You know and that's just a testament to the things
we've been talking about youknow, there's not one answer for
everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Oh, no, no, we dig in , it's so individualized.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Joe, yes, and we have to be open-minded to whatever's
going to work and it might notsuit our fancy People come and
say I'm not going to take chemo.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, if you have advanced disease, that's the
wrong decision.
You're right.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I was one of them when I first walked into this.
That was my position and wow,look at what you saw.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Whatever you did, the tumor kept growing Exactly Once
we combine the chemo and themethioninase.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's just flying away Exactly.
Well, we're going to get intomy update in a little bit.
I did want to get back into ourconversation about you and your
work and you know I like peopleto understand.
People think they know howscience works and they think
they know how discoveries aremade and they think they know
how knowledge progresses.
(02:18):
And I think most people are atvery least under-informed, many
times misinformed and most ofthe time just plain ignorant.
And I think that if we can shedlight on the actual process of
things and the back and forthand the up and down and you know
(02:39):
, just to understand howknowledge is gained and verified
and validated, and that's howscience actually happens.
It doesn't just happen becausea couple of scientists do a
couple of things and whammo, wehave a new discovery.
You know, 50 years ago youbecame aware of the value of
(03:04):
methioninase and its effect oncancer and the actual need that
cancer cells have to reproduceand to divide and all the things
that they do, their reliance onmethionine.
You came to that discovery andyou've been working on resolving
mechanisms and validating andproving this for the last 50
(03:29):
years and I want to kind ofunderstand a little bit about
these processes.
You know you share with mepapers that you've written and
co-authored and studies thathave been done and these
experiments, and I want tounderstand for myself a little
bit about your process of youknow how do you go about.
(03:54):
You know you just you're tryingto prove how this works.
You're trying to understand howthese cancer cells work and and
how that we can affect them,how these cancer cells work and
how that we can affect them, andto even prove that this enzyme
restricts this amino acid thatthe cancer needs, and to
(04:14):
actually say, well, that had aneffect.
And we have to be able to proveit in such a way that we can
replicate it, that we can seethe same thing over and over
again and see it in an animal,see it in a human, see it in
vitro, see it in all thesedifferent ways.
Maybe share a little bit aboutthat process.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Okay, Joe.
So let me tell you a little bitabout our experience developing
methioninase.
Maybe that's a good example.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So we're not the inventor of methioninase, but we
developed it all the way to theclinic.
Let's see 25 years, just that.
(05:13):
And there was a huge gap.
So we were developingmethioninase.
This is just telling you howscience works up and down.
We were developing it, we weretesting it in mice.
The mice had tumors oh boy, wehad good effect.
We would combine themethioninase with chemo.
We would get a better effect onthe tumors in the mice for
years and years.
(05:35):
And we even put it in humans inthe late 90s, mid-90s, mid-late
90s on a one-shot deal.
And we found, wow, we couldjust deplete the patient of
methionine.
Woo, good, these werelate-stage cancer patients
across the border in Tijuana,working with my colleague, dr
(05:58):
Zavala.
Well then we worked with aJapanese company and tried to
test the methioninase in monkeys.
They didn't have cancer, it wasa safety test.
And we killed a monkey, andthat was very sad.
(06:23):
This was using methioninase asan injectable and we killed a
monkey, and that was very sad.
This was using methioninase asan injectable and for about 15
years we almost gave up theproject.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Over a monkey.
What are we going to do?
We knew we could modify themethioninase.
The monkey died from what'scalled anaphylaxis, a severe
allergic reaction.
When you repeatedly dose theanimal intravenously and
(07:02):
remember that the origin of thismethioninase is from bacteria,
so it's a very foreign enzyme.
The body sees that as ooh,what's coming in me?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So we were very for 15 years.
We were really down in thedumps.
And then Dr Han and DrKawaguchi in the lab.
They didn't even tell me.
They said they started givingthe mice methionine, by mouth
methionase.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And it worked.
It worked just as well as whenyou injected it IV.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Holy moly, that's rare, especially for an amoeba.
Yeah, and so that changedeverything, Joe.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
We were on a roll and within two years we were giving
patients the methioninase bymouth and we had.
You know we didn't see miracles, but we had a lot of good
results and we published about12 of them.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And you didn't have any negative effects, though Did
you have anybody with it?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
No, We've given methioninase to about 340
patients.
Not one complaint of a negativeeffect, not one.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I agree, I don't have any.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
It's totally this.
I can say it's totally safebecause it stays in the
digestive system.
It breaks down the methioninethat comes in food you eat, even
the low methionine food, and itbreaks down methionine that
sometimes circulates back intothe digestive system.
(08:43):
That's made by the body but noside effects.
So I can say that.
So science involves trying tothink logically, design a good
experiment that will answer thevery specific question you want
(09:03):
to answer get data.
Answer a very specific question.
You want to answer get data.
Science also involves hangingin there when it's tough going,
like we did for 15 years, and itinvolves luck.
And you know Dr Hahn and DrKawaguchi had a great idea, but
(09:24):
they were also lucky that thisparticular enzyme, the gene of
which comes from this very toughsoil bacterium it's called
Pseudomonas pudida.
This bacterium is one heck of atough guy.
It can survive hightemperatures, acidity.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It can survive the conditions in the stomach and in
the gut, the stomach has ph ofI don't know, very low yeah,
yeah, the proteins that you eatright in your hamburger or
whatever, and it but it.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And you can't give insulin by mouth.
Oh no, it would.
It would just be chopped upright but methionin, the
pseudomonas, methioninase, if Icould call it.
That, is one heck of a toughguy and it survives the acidity
of the stomach.
It survives all these so-calledproteolytic enzymes that break
(10:19):
down proteins.
Methionin is a typical protein.
It doesn't break it downbecause it's so tough.
So science is good thinking,logical thinking and design of
the experiments.
Hard work to do the experiments, sometimes night and day, and
when things aren't going yourway.
You got to hang in there if youreally believe in what you do,
(10:43):
and we hung in there for 15years.
And it involves luck.
It's a human endeavor.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Right, right Agreed.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Agreed and so.
And scientists are all kinds ofdifferent people Smart some,
Some not so smart, Somehardworking, Some not so
hardworking, some dedicated,some not so dedicated.
It's the same group of humans.
Some are crooks, unfortunatelysteal each other's stuff, but
(11:19):
those are the minority.
The majority are good people.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think, like most things, I think if you take any
cross-section of humanity,you'll find a similar breakdown.
That's right.
Well, I think that's a greatperspective and point of view.
I think, you know, every oncein a while, a discovery is made
that somebody just stumbles upona thing, and that happens
(11:44):
regularly enough because peopleare.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Sometimes people call it serendipity.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's total luck, yeah , and you know what Good on them
If you stumble into somethinggood.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Whatever you get, it's good Exactly the good luck
is not so common, but hey, ifyou get it, you take it.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Exactly exactly.
And it's interesting becausesometimes you stumble on a
discovery and you get sort of abig picture understanding of
something.
You don't really understand it,but you can observe it and
sometimes you don't understandit at all Exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
It takes another 40 years for you to figure out the
results of your own experiment.
Absolutely, absolutely, and Ithink this is important.
We made this discovery ofmethionine addiction in 1976.
Right, and I really didn't seethe real ramifications of it
until these guys in Singaporepublished a similar experiment
(12:46):
43 years later.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I said, holy, you know what?
We've got something back in 76.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, I love it , I love it.
Well, I got to tell you Icouldn't be happier that you
made those discoveries because Iam confident that my now
understanding of this and mychanging in my diet and adding
that methionine is instrumentalin the results that I've gotten.
(13:15):
It's not the only thing thatcaused them, but it certainly
had a big impact and I'mconfident of that and I'm very
grateful that you're our posterboy show.
Oh you bet, and I sing loudlyto this.
So I do want to give an update.
So when we last spoke, I hadmade some remarkable progress
and that has continued.
(13:36):
This tumor has continued toshrink.
I can I can actually feel itshrinking sometimes as it was
going the other direction.
It was hurting and stretchingand popping and pushing on
nerves and now I feel itretracting and there's almost
like that itchy, crampingfeeling of when you're getting
(13:58):
better, when a muscle injurystarts to heal.
It's almost like that.
Every once in a while I feelit's like stretching and I know
it's falling back into place.
And I had a meeting with thenurse practitioner that oversees
the chemotherapy and I did avideo conference with her and
(14:19):
when she saw me, her eyes gotbig and her smile got big and
she said whoa, really, oh my God, yeah, she was just blown away.
And she says what happened toyou?
I says it's working and I tookyour advice.
I didn't go talking about allthe things I did, I just said
(14:41):
it's working.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, be the mystery man.
I just said it's working, andno be the mystery man.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I just said it's working.
And and I says I sayseverything that we're doing is
working.
And she says it's thechemotherapy.
I go you bet.
I said it's working, that's allI care about.
And I told her.
I said you know, um, I, I'vebeen able to uh, to not have to
take the nausea medicine.
(15:05):
I said I've got a littlenauseous, but the side effects
from that was just untenable.
I don't want to be constipatedand I don't want headaches.
I'd rather be a little seasick,as long as I can eat.
And I said you know, I took alittle cannabis and it helped
calm me down.
I don't even need to do thatanymore.
I got it under control.
My appetite's great.
(15:31):
What happens is you get thiscascade of problems.
So this thing was pushing on mythroat, it was raising my heart
pressure, my blood pressure,pushing on my artery, it was
causing me pain.
So I wasn't sleeping Well, youdon't sleep.
All of a sudden, everythingstarts going out of whack.
And my appetite wasn't greatbecause I wasn't sleeping.
Everything was just out ofwhack.
The second it started to shrink.
(15:52):
The first thing that started tohappen was I started to sleep.
The second, I got some sleep.
All of a sudden, everythingstarts to shift.
My energy level started toraise up.
I started moving around more, Istarted walking, I started
getting a little bit of exercise.
Next thing I know I get alittle more hungry and I'm
staying tight on my diet.
(16:13):
I've increased the methionineA's.
Joe, you're going to have tocontinue on that indefinitely.
Oh, you bet I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's like I said, said whatever it may be forever.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I don't know, it may be.
Whatever it is, if that's theprice I gotta pay, I'll pay it
every day.
That's an easy price to pay.
Anyways, I'm gaining strength.
I'm gaining, gaining anappetite.
So I'm eating more vegetablesand eating more, a lot of fruit
and, you know, doing my thingright and, um, getting stronger,
(16:43):
gaining a little bit of weight.
I had lost a bunch of weightbecause I fasted before the
chemo and then I didn't have anyappetite for a while and I got
below what I wanted to.
So I've been pushing, eatingbetter and just keeping it
straight, and I got back up tomy weight that I want to be at,
which is still real low, butit's manageable and I'm keeping
(17:06):
my energy level.
Everything's good.
So that was a big change.
And you know, one of the sideeffects from one of the drugs is
it can make some ulcers in yourmouth.
It goes after the membranes andI said, well, I got baking soda
brushing my teeth with that andthat alkalizes the membrane,
(17:28):
keeps that from happening.
And I got this saline, bufferedsaline solution, rinsing my
mouth out with that and in acouple of days it cleared it up
as long as I was able to, youknow not have a raw mouth.
I can eat and my appetite keptgetting better.
So I've just been eating mycucumbers and apples and salads
(17:51):
and Fantastic Pias andstrawberries, and you know, just
going at it, and I eat mylittle bit of beans and rice and
potatoes and take my enzyme andI'm taking that medical food,
that hominix, that two, threetimes a day.
So I get fantastic.
I get nutrients with nomethionine, no cysteine and, um,
(18:11):
it's working.
And you know the only realnegative side effect, as you can
see, you're getting, I'mgetting more forehead and uh, I
don't see that at all I couldn'tcare less.
I told my wife, I go, I'm gonnaget me a few hats and we're just
gonna ride through this.
Who cares never die.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
You know, high forehead means high iq yeah
there you go.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I'm getting smarter as the day goes by.
There you go and you knowwhat's happening is.
Today I had a meeting with themedical oncologist In person.
Or Zoom, no Zoom, and I did thesame thing.
She, her eyes got so big.
Now, remember, holy moly, yeah,remember, she's the one that
(18:56):
originally was not reallyinterested in anything.
She wanted the radiation, chemoradiation, chemo radiation.
You were going to get both.
Yeah, that's what she wanted,and it was going to be a lot of
radiation.
And I wasn't getting it cleared.
This thing was getting worseand worse.
That's when we came up withthis plan.
I offered it to her and it madesense.
(19:19):
It fit in her guidelines offirst-line therapies and she
agreed to it.
And the second, she agreed toit.
That's when everything shiftedand she realized that I'm doing
my work.
I'm not trying to fight her, Iam trying to solve this problem.
And it was urgent.
And she was willing to changeher protocol.
(19:42):
She submitted it.
Give it to change her protocol.
She submitted it.
Give it back to Joe, yes.
And so today she was justtickled.
She was so happy and she saidyou know, that's the first time
she said we might be able totake this thing down to zero
with this, and I said we'regoing to do whatever it takes.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, that's what happened to Ms Ozumi.
I know that I think so, joe.
I think so.
This and I said we're going todo whatever it takes.
That's what happened to missozumi.
I know that I think so, joe.
I think so.
But keep this in mind forfuture.
If we're going to get down tozero, I want you to do what Ms
Hozumi is doing Negotiate withyour medical oncologist.
What you're taking now isreally called induction chemo.
(20:23):
Right, you know the inductionperiod, getting rid of the damn
thing Right.
But after that, when it lookslike zero, I want her to put you
on some other.
Chemo for maintenance.
Okay, maintenance chemo formaintenance.
Okay, maintenance chemo Fairenough.
Long term, years and years,that's fine.
(20:43):
So this thing never, ever comesback.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I would totally.
I will propose that to her.
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We're going to go down to zero first.
Yeah absolutely, and I love theway she said that because I
also think so.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, I love the way she said that, because I also
think so, yes, and so that's myhope is that I can manage the
chemo because there's not goingto be a long-term side effect.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You know, and chemo, if you do things right, like you
, fast around it and stuff, itain't that bad.
Everybody's so terrified ofchemo.
Oh, chemo, it's not so bad Ifyou just do a few things like
fasting and follow dr exome.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It's okay, I'm doing it all and and I, I, if, if.
It's here's the thing.
When I did that first round, Iwas at the weakest point in my
life and I and I survived it,and now I'm 10 times stronger
than I was that first time.
I suspect Monday, when I go in,I'm going to have a much better
(21:45):
recovery period and I'm goingat it the same way.
I'm beginning my fast tomorrow.
I'm eating my last good meal.
Tonight.
I'm doing a fasting mimicking.
I'm not going a straight fastbecause I it's okay exome does
too.
I think I'm just going zeromethionine and I'm, I'm, I'm
doubling, still doubling up.
(22:06):
The methionine is.
That's my biggest thing is thatcancer gets no methionine for
the next three days, not any,and so that that's gonna that's
my really good plus I'm doingthe oxygen therapy and and all,
the all the other things I'mdoing that just help give me
(22:27):
strength and uh, hey, listenit's whatever works.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yes, you're doing good, I wouldn't change anything
.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I'm not exactly, and that's what she said.
She goes.
You just keep doing whatyou're'm not exactly and that's
what she said she goes you justkeep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I says you know, that's what they say.
The open-minded doc who doesn'treally want to know what you're
doing but but is so happy withthe result, just says keep doing
what you're doing.
That's what the doctor wastelling the parents of one of
our little girls with braincancer she was doing.
Good.
The doc would say, hey,whatever you're doing yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And that's what really makes me feel good that
I've got a team that supports myhealth.
It's not.
They don't have their agenda.
And I asked her about umgetting the circulating tumor
cell test and she says I can'treally approve that.
That doesn't.
There's not really evidencethat's going to do what I need.
But she did.
(23:22):
Dr Castro will probably approveit, I agree.
But she also said she did order,I think.
So she did order another testthat's going to show some
markers and she had ordered itpreviously.
But remember they changed thewhole protocol and she said that
got lost in the in the in the.
It's okay, she said, but she'sordering it.
(23:43):
So prior to monday when I do mychemo, they're going to pull
that first test.
So she goes.
We have a test from back innovember when we did the, when
we did the last ct scan, andwe're going to have one now.
So she says we're going tofollow that along and she's
going to do.
She's going to order a scanabout three weeks after my third
(24:06):
round and we're going to beable to yeah, everything we
talked about.
And and I asked her I go, are wegoing to be able to do a scan
after this?
She goes, yep, she goes.
Let's wait until the thirdround.
Give it a couple three weeksafterward, and then we'll do the
next scan.
So we're on point.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Okay, and if you're what they call NED no evaluable
disease NED then you're going totell her I want maintenance
chemo, I want it A hundredpercent, you bet I'm right there
.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
This port is good for 50 years.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Because, Joe, even when you're NED by all the scans
, the chances are 99.999% youstill got a bunch of cancer
cells in there and we've got tokeep them sleeping.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I understand.
I'm right there with you.
I've seen it happen.
You know, in all thisexperience that I have with
cancer patients, I've watchedexactly what you're talking
about.
They go all the way intoremission.
They go back to their life andthen boom, a week, a month, a
year, year, two years, fiveyears later it comes back, and
it usually comes back.
Go back to the old life.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You gotta keep with the cancer life.
You keep this thing from comingback.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
The old life is over I understand and I'm right there
.
I embrace the new life.
I I welcome my new me all daylong.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I I'm a better me for it and, uh, I I'd rather live a
long inspiration is you knowthat lady that came on late on
the zoom?
Oh, I get all these differenttheories.
Yeah, I, I wish she would havecome on and seen you but okay
whatever well, you know what?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
you never know people .
People hear a thing and theycome back.
I, I got a lady, yeah yeah youknow, yesterday and her son was
just diagnosed withnon-hodgkin's lymphoma and she's
right now her.
A lady contacted me yesterday.
Okay, boy, she needs to get onthe zoom, that's it, and so
we're.
We're playing phone tag.
(26:13):
I haven't had a chance toconsult with her yet, but that's
exactly what's going to happen.
I'm going to send hereverything and hopefully bring
her on Sunday's call.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Okay, well, you know, bring the horse to the water
Every time, every time.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So I just know that you know, this experience that
I'm going through has turned outto be a gift, and I've gotten a
gift of understanding of howpeople can help themselves.
I'm demonstrating it, I, I.
I took photographs twice a dayfor the past two months, so I
(26:48):
have a whole show.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I want you to share those with me.
I want to write up your as you,as a case report.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I will send you a.
It's a document that has allthe pictures in it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Okay, From the big baseball on down.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
All the way, it's just a whole series of pictures,
okay.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's what I want, Joe.
It's going to be a beautifulcase report.
Of course, we won't use yourname and we'll put something
over your eyes.
I don't care.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
You can use me if you want.
It doesn't matter, I'm an openbook.
Okay, joe, I gladly help.
You're going to help millionsof people.
I know that, and I'm glad toshare everything we're doing.
I'm here.
I want as many people tobenefit as can.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's what they're going to Joe.
All these people say I get allthese theories.
I'm overwhelmed.
Hey, take a look at Joe,Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
And I'll share my story with anybody that'll
listen.
Okay, you and Chihiro.
You know, you bet she's myinspiration when I saw what
happened to her.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
I said I want that You're going to be a lot of
other people's inspiration.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Well, you know, between Shahiro and Dr Exime,
those two have just been really–I tell you, dr Exime is an
angel from heaven, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I talk to him regularly.
I talk to him probably morethan I talk to you.
Wow, I call him up in themorning he is such a genius.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh my God, and so kind and shares everything.
Yes, yes, oh my God, and sokind and shares everything.
Yes, and you know he's almoststarting year five now.
I know he was given a year fouryears ago and here he is, he's
just staying ahead of it.
I love it With his brain, withhis dedication, with his
(28:35):
motivation, with his greatenthusiasm to learn.
Yes, and you know, that's theway it is, joe the cancer
patient who just sits there andis passive about everything and
doesn't want to learn.
They ain't going to make it.
No, you've got to give iteverything you've got.
You've got to take it into yourown hands.
You've got to be so positive.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yes, 100%.
I've been able to share somereally you know day-to-day stuff
with him and he always takes mycall or he gets back to me and
he's given me just amazingadvice on getting the labs.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
And just you know.
He gave me the information.
He was a practicing surgeon for35 years.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, I have no doubt he knows everything.
Yeah, he does.
He knows his science.
He knows, I mean, hisunderstanding of the things he
shares with me.
I understand at a veryrudimentary level and he's just
breaking it down molecularly.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I love it.
He breaks it down so everybodycan understand it.
Absolutely, it's not.
It's all his stuff isunderstandable.
Absolutely, it's not.
It's all this stuff isunderstandable.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Well, you know, the thing that's so great is on
Sunday at four o'clock Pacifictime every week, this whole
group of people gets togetherand shares their thoughts and
ideas.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And it's just, in my opinion, one of the most
valuable tools out there is thisthink tank of people, and new
people come, old people come,people that have been, people
that hang in there week afterweek.
They do better.
Yes, you know the one-timers.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Nope, you're going to get what you get.
No, no, I haven't missed a week.
Even if I wasn't feeling I wasin bad shape a couple of weeks,
I still showed up.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I shared what I can all the goodies yeah, all of it,
all of it.
So it's, it's powerful and, toanybody who's listening, the
link is in the show notes um,contact me, I'm easy to reach
and, uh, if you want to learnabout, uh, this thing that I'm
doing with this diet andmethionine is Dr Hoffman is
available.
(30:38):
He, he is been a godsend, awealth of information and
resources and just so glad to bea part of this.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
We're glad you'll be part of it too, joe.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
We're a team.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
We're a team, we're moving, we're shifting that
paradigm.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yes, we are, and I'm going to keep on going until we
get it done.
Okay, all right, robert.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us again.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
We'll see you on Sunday.
My pleasure, Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I look forward to the next one.
You bet All right everybody.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
And we'll see you on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yes, next Sunday, all right.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Bye Joe and bye all the podcasters.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.