July 4, 2025 • 35 mins
The battle against cancer often feels like navigating a maze where the map keeps changing. In this deeply personal episode, host Joe Grumbine shares breakthrough news – his recent CT scan reveals his major tumor has completely resolved, while a secondary mass has shrunk by 50%. This remarkable progress comes after just three cycles of chemotherapy combined with a strict methionine restriction diet.
Dr. Robert Hoffman joins Joe to dissect these promising results while confronting a critical crossroads in treatment. Despite clear evidence that Joe's current approach is working, his oncologist insists radiation therapy is the necessary next step. Together, they explore the concerning long-term side effects of radiation and discuss alternative approaches that could deliver results without devastating collateral damage.
What makes this conversation so valuable is how it pulls back the curtain on cancer treatment decision-making. Joe shares conversations with fellow patients who suffered permanent damage from radiation therapy, his research into continuing chemotherapy without radiation, and his plans to travel to Japan for specialized testing unavailable in the US. The discussion reveals how combining "workhorse" chemotherapy drugs with dietary interventions might be creating a synergistic effect against cancer cells that standard protocols alone cannot achieve.
Beyond medical strategies, Joe candidly discusses his recovery journey – rebuilding strength after significant weight loss, finding supplements that support healing without compromising his anti-cancer diet, and maintaining the mental fortitude to challenge medical consensus when necessary. His experience demonstrates that being an active participant rather than a passive recipient of care can dramatically alter treatment outcomes.
Whether you're facing cancer yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers invaluable insights into navigating the complex landscape of treatment options with knowledge, courage, and hope. Join us for a compelling look at how integrating traditional medicine with complementary approaches might create more effective, personalized cancer treatment pathways.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have back with us
Dr Robert Hoffman.
Robert, welcome back to theshow.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Always glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Oh yeah, it's been quite a busy couple of weeks but
we're moving forward right.
We sure are.
So just this past Monday I hada CT scan and they did it with a
contrast and they inject thatradioactive and it sort of sees
(00:37):
what is active, what's moving orwhat is lighting up because of
the glucose being in yourbloodstream.
Is that right?
I'm not sure, joe.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm not sure what the contrast agent is for CT Got it
All right.
That would be for the glucosepet, for sure, but the contrast
agent for CT.
Let me see if I can look up alittle bit on my other phone.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, this is interesting because when we're
talking about these things, partof it is just to share the
story of what's going on, butthe other part is just so people
can learn and understand.
You know what's happening,People get yeah, I mean it's so
invaluable, what's?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
who could tell it better than a patient?
Exactly, yeah, I mean.
And zero For sure, let's see.
Okay, c-t contrast agent.
Hang on for me, please.
(01:56):
Yeah, no worries, all right,here we go.
No-transcript.
(02:29):
These agents are typicallyinjected into a vein or
administered orally to improvethe clarity of CT images.
So I think they're not glucose.
I think you're right.
Glucose agent is for glucosePET.
I think you're right, Glucoseagent is for glucose PET.
Here the type CT contrastagents are so-called iodinated
(02:50):
contrast agents that are maybelinked to iodine, barium sulfate
, for example.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's an old timer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So the contrast agents work by changing the way
x-rays interact with the body.
The absorbed x-rays morereadily than surrounding tissues
, causing them to appearbrighter on the ct image.
Okay, blah, blah, good, allright, you had it, it's good.
Some people don't want to takeit.
Um, I think everybody shouldtake it.
Uh, it's not the most pleasantstuff, but we need an accurate
image, we need accurate imaging,and this is especially true in
(03:30):
your case.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Exactly.
You know, I've got, I hadmultiple tumors, I had the
beginnings of metastasis, so itwas starting to move into my
lymph nodes a little bit, and sowe need to be able to see
everything we can a little bit,and so we need to be able to see
everything we can.
And you know, the good news isis it showed some of the tumor.
Was they called it resolved,which means it's basically gone,
(03:54):
not basically it's gone.
It's gone, it's not thereanymore.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And then they referred to it as the big mass
on the neck Right and it saidresolved, that means gone.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yes, and so that to me was the best news.
And then all the other littlethings.
They talked about vasculatureand all the different little you
know descriptions of things,and everything that was noted
was unremarkable, which is againthe best news ever.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You have what they call the nodal mass Right, which
I guess is.
They say it originated in lymphnode metastatic lymph node
probably and it shrunk about 50%.
Yeah, shrunk about 50%, yeah,so that was very encouraging,
(04:48):
but it means we have to be onthe lookout.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Right, right, we're still in this, even though you
know it's been, you know, nineweeks.
We've undone what this thingtook 20 years to make, yeah, and
so that's great, but we're notdone yet.
Well, I think we're in timewarp speed.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah agreed and now we have to see what's going on
with this lymph node mass, thatyou head off to Japan for a
methionine pet, a med petthat'll tell us if that mass, or
(05:30):
whatever we wish to call it, isactive.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Right, right, absolutely.
And you know, I think that myopinion and my thought is that
the chemotherapy is still in mysystem, it's still working.
It's not, it's, it's stillcirculating, I still feel it, I
still taste it, it's still inthere, and so it's still working
(05:56):
.
It's still working and, and I,um, I, I took a little, a little
bit of a break, but not really,I mean, I, I, I, I just relaxed
a little bit while I went on myvacation, but I'm back in
lockstep with my protocols andeven being a little more
aggressive, as though it was ina really bad spot, and I think
(06:18):
it's important right now to makethe most of this drugs that are
in my body to knock this thingout completely.
But part of the, the answer,until I can get to japan, is to
determine, you know what do wegot, what's going on, and you
know they have this nav dx test,which tests for the presence of
(06:39):
the virus that caused this,which is important.
I certainly want to know ifthat's coming back, but the last
test was zero and hopefullyit'll remain that way.
But we found several other teststhat will.
You know, there was onespecific for squamous cell
carcinoma antigen, which seemedlike that would be very helpful
(07:00):
in identifying if I've got anyactivity going on.
And then there's a few othertests that I have in my little
dialogue there that says Ireally want to get a regimen of
regular testing, maybe evenevery month, done until I can
(07:20):
determine you know what's goingon, is there any activity going
on?
And you know what's going on.
Is there any activity going on?
And you know I can feel thisthing continuing to shrink.
There's still some solidmaterial or mass here, but if
you think about it, this tumorwas huge.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The big tumor.
Joe is gone, right.
What I think you're feeling iswhat the radiologists call this
lymph node or nodal, call it anodal mass, right, right, kind
of jargony, but I think that'swhat you're feeling.
He said about 6.3 centimetersdown to 4.
(08:02):
4 is a little more than an inchand a half.
That's probably still shrinking, but we really need to know
what that is.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
That's part of what this is allabout.
This whole conversation hasbeen about trying to get to the
bottom of the problem and how tosolve it, and so far, the
actions that we're taking seemto be working extremely well.
But we also have to stayfocused on understanding what we
(08:40):
have, and I'm really lookingforward to getting the rest of
the results, because they scanmy chest as well and I don't
have that those results yet youcan be pretty confident that
that's going to be a negative.
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, anyway, we'll get it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I want the image.
When I get the image as well,that'll be interesting to see,
because I've got an image fromnot quite a year ago of a CT
scan and then I've got the PETscan from about eight months ago
to contrast it with.
So we're going to have a prettydramatic contrast, I believe.
(09:22):
Well, we don't need the scan toknow that.
Right, exactly, exactly I.
I just look in the mirror andthat's uh, that's, that's,
that's exciting stuff, but Ijust, you know, part of the
thing is is for me.
I'm doubling down on my effortright now because the the, the
(09:42):
difference from I just found outI have it to this giant mass is
a huge difference, and now thatit's gotten so small, it'd be
easy to go okay, we're good, butwe're not good until we're,
until we're done.
And even when we're done, weget on a maintenance schedule,
and we got to figure that outstill.
So so, one step at a time.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I think for now we we've, and we'll confirm
this when you, you know, talk tothe doctor and get the rest of
the scan.
We have to focus on that nodalmass Right, exactly and, and,
and, and see what we have to doto do Yep, and I, you know I'm
(10:30):
up against the radiologist orthe radiation oncologist and the
medical oncologist.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They have their plan.
What they want to do, which is,you know, hit me hard with
radiation and chemo again.
And you know it's interesting,I've met some people.
I have a friend who I've knownfor many years and I discovered
after her listening to some ofmy podcasts and us just talking,
she had the exact same thingthat I had, or the same cancer.
(10:54):
It didn't manifest exactly thesame, but they gave her the
treatment that they want to giveme, where they screw your head
down to the table and they hityou with the radiation and then
the chemo on top of it.
And she has suffered horrendousside effects for many, many
years and it's never going to goaway.
And I know another person whohad a very similar situation as
(11:20):
well and she said you know, theinside of her mouth turned into
hamburger and she said theburning in her esophagus and
just her memory has been shotand just a lot of really bad
side effects that I don't wantany part of.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And, joe, I got a little bit of encouragement.
Yeah, when you say they want togive you chemo plus the
radiation right, well, maybeit's a different chemo and we
can go just with the chemo,because that's what I would
suggest so well, right, whydon't we just stay with chemo?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
well, and I suggested that to the, to the uh medical
oncologist, and she says no,it's not the, not the standard
of care that she works with.
She said it's a combination ofthose two and she said more
chemo wouldn't do any good byitself is what she said.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And well, she tried to tell you that in the
beginning I know I'm gonna.
She wanted you to do chemoradiation exactly what.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm gonna ask her what the drugs are, so that at
least I'll know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, and we can get somebody else to prescribe them
if we have to.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Exactly that's what my thought is, is if I can
figure out what that cocktail isand then we can say, okay, well
, let me.
The good news is is I still gotto deal with my mouth, and I
wasn't able to do that while Iwas going through the chemo.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Even so, Joe, it seems radiation is so, it seems,
so perilous.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, I don't want it .
I don't want it.
I mean, you know, if it's goingto come to life and death, okay
, that's another conversation,but we're not at that place and
we're not going to.
We're real far from that andit's never going to get back to
where it was Cause we're notgoing to let it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
No no, it's never going to go back to where it was
.
You know, I just can'tunderstand the logic these
doctors have.
You know that you had threecycles of chemo very good
standard drugs.
(13:31):
You had docetaxel, right, yeah,docetaxel, yeah, docetaxel.
Cisplatin, 5-fluoruracil theseare all warhorses.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, they did a great job.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
They're the $10 drugs too.
They've been around forgenerations and they work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
They did a knockout job.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm just curious.
Uh, it seems to me, if you'regoing to get another chemo, we
could.
We could do more of the same,or we?
Maybe the logic just sort ofsays hey, wait a minute, let's
do another cycle of the same.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's what I asked her originally when we had our
last meeting and I said well,let's just say we get close but
we don't finish it.
I said would you be willing toorder another cycle of the same?
And she was flat out she saysthree cycles is going to do what
it's going to do.
She said another cycle wouldn'tdo anything.
How do we know that?
I know, I agree, I totallyagree.
(14:36):
So what we know is we havethose three drugs that did work
extremely well and we're goingto find out what their other
cycle would be.
And if we have to go and findanother doctor that could order
that, then maybe that's ouranswer.
If it comes down to it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You know, I think we have to go with chemo as far as
we can on that mass.
But maybe before we get tooinvolved with it we need that
methionine Pat to see if it'sactive agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I'm going to work on on being able to get out
there and do that and figureout exactly.
How do I, how do I?
From lax joe oh, I'm an hourand a half, no big deal I can
get to lax easy okay, there'sabout umpteen flights to Japan
every day.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, chihiro used to work for United.
She knows exactly how to usethat airline, okay, and get a
good deal.
And you got, you know, you gother to take care of you.
You got Mr Whale he's such anice guy okay, so you got a
(15:59):
whole team there ready to takecare of you, all right.
So, all right, let's see.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Let's see, let's get the rest of the conversation
with the doctor and see whatthey have to say.
We'll get the rest of the scanand meanwhile that'll be my.
My next plan is to to get outthere and let's get this thing
going and find out some realanswers.
All the blood work in the worldgives you clues, but this will
(16:25):
tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, the med pet will tell you if this is an
active cancer.
Absolutely I suspect that it is, but we have to know.
The really good news is, geez,it went from 6.3 centimeters to
4, for God's sake, absolutely.
(16:47):
That's so good.
Why we stop?
I know I don't get it.
I don't either.
I think you know minimum, hey,let's do, let's do another cycle
.
That would make sense to me.
It's not that you've reachedyour limit of toleration, I
(17:08):
don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
In fact I looked at the the I.
I researched those drugs andthey said you can do up to six
cycles.
That's what the standard ofcare is Before it becomes a
toxic dose.
You can take up to six cyclesof that she's giving it.
(17:29):
We have to stop at three.
It doesn't say why she saidit'll do all the good it's going
to do is what she said?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Those were her words, well, first of all, she has no
experience of combining thechemotherapy with the methionine
restriction.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Exactly, but she don't want to hear that she
doesn't.
No, and I get that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I get that she doesn't want to hear that.
You know, and it's ironic, joe,yeah, I'll tell you this and
you can do a little research.
Uh, uc, irvine, where yourworks, yep, some other branch or
whatever they're going to do aclinical trial on a low
(18:14):
methionine diet.
So and I forgot the name of thedoctor, but she's probably you
can look her up.
Yeah, she's from romania, okay,so you may want to see who the
I'll see if I can make it.
Who are the medical oncologistsat UCI?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And we find a name that looks a little bit Romanian
, we can get in touch with her.
I will absolutely do that.
It's so ironic, and probablyyour doctor.
What's your name again, nibar?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Nibar, yeah, I think she's Pakistani, or she's some
whatever yeah nabar.
So dabar nabar is is in anotheruniverse than these other looks
in a parallel universe right,exactly working out the same
building it could be.
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to say,but yeah, it's wild.
(19:16):
In speaking with Cynthia, sheinterviewed me for her blog and
she came on my podcast, but shetold me about her story and she
worked with UC San Francisco, Ithink.
Yeah, so this UC system, Ithink, has got a good medical
program, but it was flawed withher as well.
They wanted to do surgery andall this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
They're all reading the same guidebook, okay.
Whether it's the fanciestuniversity, or East Podunk U,
they're all the same.
And oh, I'm going to go toSloan Kettering, I'm going to
get the best of the best.
No, you get it Sloan Kettering,you get it Podunk Right, it's
the same guidebook.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
It's the same book, written by the same pharma
companies and the same pharmacompanies.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Hey, we're not against the pharma companies.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
But it's just, that's an influence.
It's the same drugs andironically, joe and I'll tell
you I'm a little bit surprisedthinking back on it that it was
so easy to get your drugsbecause they're all generic now
and for a while they were reallyin short supply because nobody
(20:28):
wants to make them.
Why should you make cisplatinum, 5-luoroyluracil, docetaxel,
the $10 drugs, when you could bemaking Keytruda or something
like it?
It took in $24 billion.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There you go, and now they've got all these fancy
immunotherapy drugs, and they'reall coming out with something
new every week.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah now the new fancy drugs, joe, are the
antibody drug conjugates?
Right Boy, are they expensive?
There you go.
I mean you know and so.
But the old war horses, the oldwar horses are good.
Yeah, are they good enough?
Usually not, but they're good,and we're hoping, and we see
(21:12):
with you.
Looks like methioninerestriction makes them a lot
better.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And a giant end of fasting, and a lot of other
folks too.
Yeah, agreed, and I think thefasting I'm big on the war
horses, joe, I'm big on them, Ilove it.
I love it.
You know you work with whatworks, and I couldn't agree more
, and that's why I embraced thisplan.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And I'm glad I did well.
You can't argue with.
You cannot argue, you don'tneed scans.
We just need to look at joe 1.0and joe 2.0 exactly like
different people?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
oh, absolutely, and you know the best thing is is is
I, my body's, rebuilding itselfnow and I'm getting stronger
every day, and you know the thethe thing that happens is.
it's crazy because the when youwhen you get, you look a lot
better without hair.
Well, that's what a lot ofpeople say, and and and.
(22:13):
As I said before, I couldn'tcare less one way or the other.
You know, I, I, what I don'thave is this, and that's what I
do care about.
You got rid of that monster.
Yes, exactly, so the thing wasas well.
I was battling that.
It took so much out of me.
You know, I lost all thisweight from the diet and from
just not being able to be active, and I lost a lot of muscle
(22:39):
mass, I lost my stamina, Iwasn't sleeping, so my immune
system was compromised and I wasreally weak there.
For right towards the end I wasin the worst state I'd ever
been in my life and once Istarted sleeping again, it made
a big difference.
And then I've been reallyfocused on the diet and, you
(23:01):
know, trying to get all thecalories I need without bringing
the methionine in, and I'vebeen doing pretty good with that
.
I've found, you know, thesefoods that I can eat, that that
have some calories to them, andI'm trying to find hominids eat
that that have some calories tothem, and I'm trying to find
hominix.
I found hominix.
I love that stuff I, I, I, Itake we all love it three doses
(23:22):
a day now, and I take them firstthing in the morning.
And a lot of calories, yeah,and I and I burn it off.
All your aminos, exactly nocysteine, no methionine, yeah,
so so you know, that's enablingme to rebuild my muscles and
it's made all the difference inthe world.
(23:42):
I've gained back 10 pounds fromwhere I had lost 25, and so I'm
I'm, probably at a best weightI've been in a long time, and
it's, it's I be, everybody thatsees me.
Here's my voice.
They say you know you'resounding stronger.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You just, and I just know I'm getting stronger, and
that to me, and you are, you areyou know, joe, this, your case,
I think, really highlights theroadmap that cancer patients
have to go through.
Yeah, you know, they could takeone roadmap and just do
(24:18):
everything the doc says and yes,doctor, right.
Or they can study and learnthemselves and know that there's
other things possible than whatthe doctor knows about and
tells about.
Yeah, but how to get there?
How?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
to get there, yeah, and you got to be willing to
pivot and change and admityou're wrong and realize that
sometimes things change.
And you know, my path has gonehere and there and here and
there and I thought I was on agood road and I found out I was
on a wrong road.
And then, even doing all theright things, I had to find out
(24:56):
there was adjustments.
You know, the diet caused azinc deficiency.
Dr Castro found that.
So I get a supplement.
And as we're going along, youknow all of these little pivots
and you know and speaking ofthat, I don't know if you got a
chance to look at it I sent youover a bunch of links about the
NMN.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I just don't know about that, Joe.
It's just not my area.
No, no, no it's my philosophyIf it doesn't hurt, do it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Exactly Well what I did a precursory research and it
turned out.
There's a lot of informationfrom a lot of different angles
and I haven't studied all thesereports, but I scanned them and
looked at the abstract and I gotat least a little snapshot of
what it is.
And just to begin thediscussion of it because I don't
(25:48):
know that this is going to beany holy grail or anything but
it seems that it had a multitudeof benefits and one of the
benefits was that it helped toameliorate the negative effects
(26:09):
of cisplatin and it helped someof the other chemo drugs.
Where you get these sideeffects, you get a brain fog,
you get weakness, you get nausea, and one of the benefits of
this was it lessened thosethings or they're claiming this
anyways, and that's a good thingwas it seemed to work with a
(26:38):
number of different tests tofind these cancers and help them
to work better.
And it was a number of cancerscolorectal cancer and I believe
there was a head and neck cancerand there was a few different
(26:58):
cancers.
And there's these differenttests that you know can
determine.
You know, if you've got thelike the PSA test and all these
other tests where it says, well,you've got these markers that
will indicate that you've got aproblem or you don't.
And apparently there are somestudies that are showing that
this can help improve the theefficacy of those tests.
(27:20):
And then there were severalstudies that showed there were
mechanisms that helped toactually attack the tumors.
And I didn't study this deep, Ijust, you know, did a brief
scan and on the abstracts but Ibelieve that I'm going to spend
(27:41):
more time studying this Icouldn't find anything to the
contrary, and one of the thingsone of the studies was talking
about One of the studies wastalking about it was increasing
the apoptosis.
Yeah, and that's a good thingtoo.
(28:03):
Yeah, and that's a system thatcan help destroy the cancer
cells.
That's right, and so it seemedthat that was making that work
better.
So it seems that I couldn'tfind anything that said it's got
(28:23):
a problem and that it's causingany of these problems.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So that's kind of my.
You can try it out.
I'm using it right now.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, I went back to taking it and and immediately I
can feel the the positivebenefit from it, where it gives
you a benefit of stamina, youknow, reset your DNA and and
work on, you know there's a lotof anti-aging properties to it,
(28:57):
where it's restoring things thatare going wrong.
So I'm, I'm, yeah, yeah, it'snothing, nothing I could find.
If it makes you feel better, doit.
I mean, why not?
Yeah, so that's, that's kind ofexciting.
And you know, again, I'm notlooking at anything as a silver
bullet, but I look at sort ofI've got this quiver of tools
(29:21):
and I'm trying to eliminate asmany of them that don't work,
because why mess around withthings that don't work or don't
serve me?
And I'm trying to take the thefewest amount of things that do
the most good, and that way Ican manage it and the diet's
enough, you know, to keep mebusy.
So I try to.
I try to keep all the extrathings.
(29:41):
You know, I like my soursop tea.
I think that's got some benefitand it doesn't hurt, and you
know it's easy enough to drinkand all of that but other other
than that, you know just.
I think the message really is,though, that this search for
answers and finding, beingwilling to take action when you
(30:02):
learned about something, andtaking the time to, you know,
get good information, listeningto different people Like I
shared these results with half adozen people that all have
medical backgrounds, and theyall basically agreed the same.
They all had about the same,the same result.
You know, full congratulationsand and and we're we're well on
(30:22):
our way.
So that, to me, was justundeniable.
Yeah, yeah.
But you know, sometimes there'sthere's information that could
be interpreted one way oranother, and that's why you know
, sometimes there's informationthat could be interpreted one
way or another, and that's why,you know, I try to get the
feedback from people I respectand look for.
You know anything, but I didn'tget anything other than
positive, so that makes me realhappy.
I'm looking forward to the 11th.
(30:44):
I have my appointment with themedical oncologist, so we're
going to be talking about theresults and you know what they
ask her.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Joe, you know, maybe not in the beginning, you just
say, well, with your proposedchemo radiation for the next
treatment, what would be the?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
chemo Right.
Exactly, that's exactly whatI'm going to do, and I've been
able to communicate with her,even when we didn't necessarily
agree, without beingconfrontational, and she's been
respectful of my point of view.
So I think we're okay to havethis conversation with her.
You know the?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
very fact that she treated you with this first trip
.
You know cycles of chemo, whichis really not in her guidebook?
Yeah, you know, it sort of is,but that's a good sign already.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Exactly, that's the way I looked at it.
It was in her playbook, enoughto consider it and she didn't
take any time to agree.
And you know I was in a direspace and I needed something to
happen and she knew that.
So I think that you know thathelped her make the decision
pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
but it didn't matter.
She's got to be impressed withthis result.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Oh, she is.
She is Absolutely Every timeshe's.
She's seen me twice since webegan the treatments and both
times she, you know her eyes gotbig and she's like here, get up
close to the camera.
I want to see that closer.
And you know she was real, realimpressed.
And then you know the, thepractitioner that I meet with or
(32:23):
was meeting with, you know,prior to the infusions she'd do
the same thing.
You know she was actually thereand you just watch her.
She'd be looking at me likewhoa.
You know it was just such asuch a dramatic change, you know
what's up?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
I just got a message on my phone that it's starting
to overheat got it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
We're about to the end.
I'm a little worried, okay?
Well, let's just go ahead andwe'll we'll close the session
down and we'll let your phoneget back to normal temperature.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Joe, then we'll see you on Sunday.
I look forward to it.
This has been another editionof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine.
Thank you for all your supportand we'll see you next week.
Bye for now.
All right, take care.
Hey, well, hello and welcome back to the Healthy
Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine,and today we have back with us
Dr Robert Hoffman.
Robert, welcome back to theshow.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Always glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Oh yeah, it's been quite a busy couple of weeks but
we're moving forward right.
We sure are.
So just this past Monday I hada CT scan and they did it with a
contrast and they inject thatradioactive and it sort of sees
(00:37):
what is active, what's moving orwhat is lighting up because of
the glucose being in yourbloodstream.
Is that right?
I'm not sure, joe.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm not sure what the contrast agent is for CT Got it
All right.
That would be for the glucosepet, for sure, but the contrast
agent for CT.
Let me see if I can look up alittle bit on my other phone.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, this is interesting because when we're
talking about these things, partof it is just to share the
story of what's going on, butthe other part is just so people
can learn and understand.
You know what's happening,People get yeah, I mean it's so
invaluable, what's?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
who could tell it better than a patient?
Exactly, yeah, I mean.
And zero For sure, let's see.
Okay, c-t contrast agent.
Hang on for me, please.
(01:56):
Yeah, no worries, all right,here we go.
No-transcript.
(02:29):
These agents are typicallyinjected into a vein or
administered orally to improvethe clarity of CT images.
So I think they're not glucose.
I think you're right.
Glucose agent is for glucosePET.
I think you're right, Glucoseagent is for glucose PET.
Here the type CT contrastagents are so-called iodinated
(02:50):
contrast agents that are maybelinked to iodine, barium sulfate
, for example.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's an old timer.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So the contrast agents work by changing the way
x-rays interact with the body.
The absorbed x-rays morereadily than surrounding tissues
, causing them to appearbrighter on the ct image.
Okay, blah, blah, good, allright, you had it, it's good.
Some people don't want to takeit.
Um, I think everybody shouldtake it.
Uh, it's not the most pleasantstuff, but we need an accurate
image, we need accurate imaging,and this is especially true in
(03:30):
your case.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Exactly.
You know, I've got, I hadmultiple tumors, I had the
beginnings of metastasis, so itwas starting to move into my
lymph nodes a little bit, and sowe need to be able to see
everything we can a little bit,and so we need to be able to see
everything we can.
And you know, the good news isis it showed some of the tumor.
Was they called it resolved,which means it's basically gone,
(03:54):
not basically it's gone.
It's gone, it's not thereanymore.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
And then they referred to it as the big mass
on the neck Right and it saidresolved, that means gone.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yes, and so that to me was the best news.
And then all the other littlethings.
They talked about vasculatureand all the different little you
know descriptions of things,and everything that was noted
was unremarkable, which is againthe best news ever.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You have what they call the nodal mass Right, which
I guess is.
They say it originated in lymphnode metastatic lymph node
probably and it shrunk about 50%.
Yeah, shrunk about 50%, yeah,so that was very encouraging,
(04:48):
but it means we have to be onthe lookout.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Right, right, we're still in this, even though you
know it's been, you know, nineweeks.
We've undone what this thingtook 20 years to make, yeah, and
so that's great, but we're notdone yet.
Well, I think we're in timewarp speed.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah agreed and now we have to see what's going on
with this lymph node mass, thatyou head off to Japan for a
methionine pet, a med petthat'll tell us if that mass, or
(05:30):
whatever we wish to call it, isactive.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Right, right, absolutely.
And you know, I think that myopinion and my thought is that
the chemotherapy is still in mysystem, it's still working.
It's not, it's, it's stillcirculating, I still feel it, I
still taste it, it's still inthere, and so it's still working
(05:56):
.
It's still working and, and I,um, I, I took a little, a little
bit of a break, but not really,I mean, I, I, I, I just relaxed
a little bit while I went on myvacation, but I'm back in
lockstep with my protocols andeven being a little more
aggressive, as though it was ina really bad spot, and I think
(06:18):
it's important right now to makethe most of this drugs that are
in my body to knock this thingout completely.
But part of the, the answer,until I can get to japan, is to
determine, you know what do wegot, what's going on, and you
know they have this nav dx test,which tests for the presence of
(06:39):
the virus that caused this,which is important.
I certainly want to know ifthat's coming back, but the last
test was zero and hopefullyit'll remain that way.
But we found several other teststhat will.
You know, there was onespecific for squamous cell
carcinoma antigen, which seemedlike that would be very helpful
(07:00):
in identifying if I've got anyactivity going on.
And then there's a few othertests that I have in my little
dialogue there that says Ireally want to get a regimen of
regular testing, maybe evenevery month, done until I can
(07:20):
determine you know what's goingon, is there any activity going
on?
And you know what's going on.
Is there any activity going on?
And you know I can feel thisthing continuing to shrink.
There's still some solidmaterial or mass here, but if
you think about it, this tumorwas huge.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The big tumor.
Joe is gone, right.
What I think you're feeling iswhat the radiologists call this
lymph node or nodal, call it anodal mass, right, right, kind
of jargony, but I think that'swhat you're feeling.
He said about 6.3 centimetersdown to 4.
(08:02):
4 is a little more than an inchand a half.
That's probably still shrinking, but we really need to know
what that is.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
That's part of what this is allabout.
This whole conversation hasbeen about trying to get to the
bottom of the problem and how tosolve it, and so far, the
actions that we're taking seemto be working extremely well.
But we also have to stayfocused on understanding what we
(08:40):
have, and I'm really lookingforward to getting the rest of
the results, because they scanmy chest as well and I don't
have that those results yet youcan be pretty confident that
that's going to be a negative.
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, anyway, we'll get it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I want the image.
When I get the image as well,that'll be interesting to see,
because I've got an image fromnot quite a year ago of a CT
scan and then I've got the PETscan from about eight months ago
to contrast it with.
So we're going to have a prettydramatic contrast, I believe.
(09:22):
Well, we don't need the scan toknow that.
Right, exactly, exactly I.
I just look in the mirror andthat's uh, that's, that's,
that's exciting stuff, but Ijust, you know, part of the
thing is is for me.
I'm doubling down on my effortright now because the the, the
(09:42):
difference from I just found outI have it to this giant mass is
a huge difference, and now thatit's gotten so small, it'd be
easy to go okay, we're good, butwe're not good until we're,
until we're done.
And even when we're done, weget on a maintenance schedule,
and we got to figure that outstill.
So so, one step at a time.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I think for now we we've, and we'll confirm
this when you, you know, talk tothe doctor and get the rest of
the scan.
We have to focus on that nodalmass Right, exactly and, and,
and, and see what we have to doto do Yep, and I, you know I'm
(10:30):
up against the radiologist orthe radiation oncologist and the
medical oncologist.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
They have their plan.
What they want to do, which is,you know, hit me hard with
radiation and chemo again.
And you know it's interesting,I've met some people.
I have a friend who I've knownfor many years and I discovered
after her listening to some ofmy podcasts and us just talking,
she had the exact same thingthat I had, or the same cancer.
(10:54):
It didn't manifest exactly thesame, but they gave her the
treatment that they want to giveme, where they screw your head
down to the table and they hityou with the radiation and then
the chemo on top of it.
And she has suffered horrendousside effects for many, many
years and it's never going to goaway.
And I know another person whohad a very similar situation as
(11:20):
well and she said you know, theinside of her mouth turned into
hamburger and she said theburning in her esophagus and
just her memory has been shotand just a lot of really bad
side effects that I don't wantany part of.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And, joe, I got a little bit of encouragement.
Yeah, when you say they want togive you chemo plus the
radiation right, well, maybeit's a different chemo and we
can go just with the chemo,because that's what I would
suggest so well, right, whydon't we just stay with chemo?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
well, and I suggested that to the, to the uh medical
oncologist, and she says no,it's not the, not the standard
of care that she works with.
She said it's a combination ofthose two and she said more
chemo wouldn't do any good byitself is what she said.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And well, she tried to tell you that in the
beginning I know I'm gonna.
She wanted you to do chemoradiation exactly what.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm gonna ask her what the drugs are, so that at
least I'll know.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, and we can get somebody else to prescribe them
if we have to.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Exactly that's what my thought is, is if I can
figure out what that cocktail isand then we can say, okay, well
, let me.
The good news is is I still gotto deal with my mouth, and I
wasn't able to do that while Iwas going through the chemo.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Even so, Joe, it seems radiation is so, it seems,
so perilous.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, I don't want it .
I don't want it.
I mean, you know, if it's goingto come to life and death, okay
, that's another conversation,but we're not at that place and
we're not going to.
We're real far from that andit's never going to get back to
where it was Cause we're notgoing to let it.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
No no, it's never going to go back to where it was
.
You know, I just can'tunderstand the logic these
doctors have.
You know that you had threecycles of chemo very good
standard drugs.
(13:31):
You had docetaxel, right, yeah,docetaxel, yeah, docetaxel.
Cisplatin, 5-fluoruracil theseare all warhorses.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, they did a great job.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
They're the $10 drugs too.
They've been around forgenerations and they work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
They did a knockout job.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm just curious.
Uh, it seems to me, if you'regoing to get another chemo, we
could.
We could do more of the same,or we?
Maybe the logic just sort ofsays hey, wait a minute, let's
do another cycle of the same.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's what I asked her originally when we had our
last meeting and I said well,let's just say we get close but
we don't finish it.
I said would you be willing toorder another cycle of the same?
And she was flat out she saysthree cycles is going to do what
it's going to do.
She said another cycle wouldn'tdo anything.
How do we know that?
I know, I agree, I totallyagree.
(14:36):
So what we know is we havethose three drugs that did work
extremely well and we're goingto find out what their other
cycle would be.
And if we have to go and findanother doctor that could order
that, then maybe that's ouranswer.
If it comes down to it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You know, I think we have to go with chemo as far as
we can on that mass.
But maybe before we get tooinvolved with it we need that
methionine Pat to see if it'sactive agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I'm going to work on on being able to get out
there and do that and figureout exactly.
How do I, how do I?
From lax joe oh, I'm an hourand a half, no big deal I can
get to lax easy okay, there'sabout umpteen flights to Japan
every day.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, chihiro used to work for United.
She knows exactly how to usethat airline, okay, and get a
good deal.
And you got, you know, you gother to take care of you.
You got Mr Whale he's such anice guy okay, so you got a
(15:59):
whole team there ready to takecare of you, all right.
So, all right, let's see.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Let's see, let's get the rest of the conversation
with the doctor and see whatthey have to say.
We'll get the rest of the scanand meanwhile that'll be my.
My next plan is to to get outthere and let's get this thing
going and find out some realanswers.
All the blood work in the worldgives you clues, but this will
(16:25):
tell the truth.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, the med pet will tell you if this is an
active cancer.
Absolutely I suspect that it is, but we have to know.
The really good news is, geez,it went from 6.3 centimeters to
4, for God's sake, absolutely.
(16:47):
That's so good.
Why we stop?
I know I don't get it.
I don't either.
I think you know minimum, hey,let's do, let's do another cycle
.
That would make sense to me.
It's not that you've reachedyour limit of toleration, I
(17:08):
don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
In fact I looked at the the I.
I researched those drugs andthey said you can do up to six
cycles.
That's what the standard ofcare is Before it becomes a
toxic dose.
You can take up to six cyclesof that she's giving it.
(17:29):
We have to stop at three.
It doesn't say why she saidit'll do all the good it's going
to do is what she said?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Those were her words, well, first of all, she has no
experience of combining thechemotherapy with the methionine
restriction.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Exactly, but she don't want to hear that she
doesn't.
No, and I get that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I get that she doesn't want to hear that.
You know, and it's ironic, joe,yeah, I'll tell you this and
you can do a little research.
Uh, uc, irvine, where yourworks, yep, some other branch or
whatever they're going to do aclinical trial on a low
(18:14):
methionine diet.
So and I forgot the name of thedoctor, but she's probably you
can look her up.
Yeah, she's from romania, okay,so you may want to see who the
I'll see if I can make it.
Who are the medical oncologistsat UCI?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And we find a name that looks a little bit Romanian
, we can get in touch with her.
I will absolutely do that.
It's so ironic, and probablyyour doctor.
What's your name again, nibar?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Nibar, yeah, I think she's Pakistani, or she's some
whatever yeah nabar.
So dabar nabar is is in anotheruniverse than these other looks
in a parallel universe right,exactly working out the same
building it could be.
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to say,but yeah, it's wild.
(19:16):
In speaking with Cynthia, sheinterviewed me for her blog and
she came on my podcast, but shetold me about her story and she
worked with UC San Francisco, Ithink.
Yeah, so this UC system, Ithink, has got a good medical
program, but it was flawed withher as well.
They wanted to do surgery andall this.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
They're all reading the same guidebook, okay.
Whether it's the fanciestuniversity, or East Podunk U,
they're all the same.
And oh, I'm going to go toSloan Kettering, I'm going to
get the best of the best.
No, you get it Sloan Kettering,you get it Podunk Right, it's
the same guidebook.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
It's the same book, written by the same pharma
companies and the same pharmacompanies.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Hey, we're not against the pharma companies.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
But it's just, that's an influence.
It's the same drugs andironically, joe and I'll tell
you I'm a little bit surprisedthinking back on it that it was
so easy to get your drugsbecause they're all generic now
and for a while they were reallyin short supply because nobody
(20:28):
wants to make them.
Why should you make cisplatinum, 5-luoroyluracil, docetaxel,
the $10 drugs, when you could bemaking Keytruda or something
like it?
It took in $24 billion.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There you go, and now they've got all these fancy
immunotherapy drugs, and they'reall coming out with something
new every week.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah now the new fancy drugs, joe, are the
antibody drug conjugates?
Right Boy, are they expensive?
There you go.
I mean you know and so.
But the old war horses, the oldwar horses are good.
Yeah, are they good enough?
Usually not, but they're good,and we're hoping, and we see
(21:12):
with you.
Looks like methioninerestriction makes them a lot
better.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And a giant end of fasting, and a lot of other
folks too.
Yeah, agreed, and I think thefasting I'm big on the war
horses, joe, I'm big on them, Ilove it.
I love it.
You know you work with whatworks, and I couldn't agree more
, and that's why I embraced thisplan.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And I'm glad I did well.
You can't argue with.
You cannot argue, you don'tneed scans.
We just need to look at joe 1.0and joe 2.0 exactly like
different people?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
oh, absolutely, and you know the best thing is is is
I, my body's, rebuilding itselfnow and I'm getting stronger
every day, and you know the thethe thing that happens is.
it's crazy because the when youwhen you get, you look a lot
better without hair.
Well, that's what a lot ofpeople say, and and and.
(22:13):
As I said before, I couldn'tcare less one way or the other.
You know, I, I, what I don'thave is this, and that's what I
do care about.
You got rid of that monster.
Yes, exactly, so the thing wasas well.
I was battling that.
It took so much out of me.
You know, I lost all thisweight from the diet and from
just not being able to be active, and I lost a lot of muscle
(22:39):
mass, I lost my stamina, Iwasn't sleeping, so my immune
system was compromised and I wasreally weak there.
For right towards the end I wasin the worst state I'd ever
been in my life and once Istarted sleeping again, it made
a big difference.
And then I've been reallyfocused on the diet and, you
(23:01):
know, trying to get all thecalories I need without bringing
the methionine in, and I'vebeen doing pretty good with that
.
I've found, you know, thesefoods that I can eat, that that
have some calories to them, andI'm trying to find hominids eat
that that have some calories tothem, and I'm trying to find
hominix.
I found hominix.
I love that stuff I, I, I, Itake we all love it three doses
(23:22):
a day now, and I take them firstthing in the morning.
And a lot of calories, yeah,and I and I burn it off.
All your aminos, exactly nocysteine, no methionine, yeah,
so so you know, that's enablingme to rebuild my muscles and
it's made all the difference inthe world.
(23:42):
I've gained back 10 pounds fromwhere I had lost 25, and so I'm
I'm, probably at a best weightI've been in a long time, and
it's, it's I be, everybody thatsees me.
Here's my voice.
They say you know you'resounding stronger.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
You just, and I just know I'm getting stronger, and
that to me, and you are, you areyou know, joe, this, your case,
I think, really highlights theroadmap that cancer patients
have to go through.
Yeah, you know, they could takeone roadmap and just do
(24:18):
everything the doc says and yes,doctor, right.
Or they can study and learnthemselves and know that there's
other things possible than whatthe doctor knows about and
tells about.
Yeah, but how to get there?
How?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
to get there, yeah, and you got to be willing to
pivot and change and admityou're wrong and realize that
sometimes things change.
And you know, my path has gonehere and there and here and
there and I thought I was on agood road and I found out I was
on a wrong road.
And then, even doing all theright things, I had to find out
(24:56):
there was adjustments.
You know, the diet caused azinc deficiency.
Dr Castro found that.
So I get a supplement.
And as we're going along, youknow all of these little pivots
and you know and speaking ofthat, I don't know if you got a
chance to look at it I sent youover a bunch of links about the
NMN.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I just don't know about that, Joe.
It's just not my area.
No, no, no it's my philosophyIf it doesn't hurt, do it.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Exactly Well what I did a precursory research and it
turned out.
There's a lot of informationfrom a lot of different angles
and I haven't studied all thesereports, but I scanned them and
looked at the abstract and I gotat least a little snapshot of
what it is.
And just to begin thediscussion of it because I don't
(25:48):
know that this is going to beany holy grail or anything but
it seems that it had a multitudeof benefits and one of the
benefits was that it helped toameliorate the negative effects
(26:09):
of cisplatin and it helped someof the other chemo drugs.
Where you get these sideeffects, you get a brain fog,
you get weakness, you get nausea, and one of the benefits of
this was it lessened thosethings or they're claiming this
anyways, and that's a good thingwas it seemed to work with a
(26:38):
number of different tests tofind these cancers and help them
to work better.
And it was a number of cancerscolorectal cancer and I believe
there was a head and neck cancerand there was a few different
(26:58):
cancers.
And there's these differenttests that you know can
determine.
You know, if you've got thelike the PSA test and all these
other tests where it says, well,you've got these markers that
will indicate that you've got aproblem or you don't.
And apparently there are somestudies that are showing that
this can help improve the theefficacy of those tests.
(27:20):
And then there were severalstudies that showed there were
mechanisms that helped toactually attack the tumors.
And I didn't study this deep, Ijust, you know, did a brief
scan and on the abstracts but Ibelieve that I'm going to spend
(27:41):
more time studying this Icouldn't find anything to the
contrary, and one of the thingsone of the studies was talking
about One of the studies wastalking about it was increasing
the apoptosis.
Yeah, and that's a good thingtoo.
(28:03):
Yeah, and that's a system thatcan help destroy the cancer
cells.
That's right, and so it seemedthat that was making that work
better.
So it seems that I couldn'tfind anything that said it's got
(28:23):
a problem and that it's causingany of these problems.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
So that's kind of my.
You can try it out.
I'm using it right now.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, I went back to taking it and and immediately I
can feel the the positivebenefit from it, where it gives
you a benefit of stamina, youknow, reset your DNA and and
work on, you know there's a lotof anti-aging properties to it,
(28:57):
where it's restoring things thatare going wrong.
So I'm, I'm, yeah, yeah, it'snothing, nothing I could find.
If it makes you feel better, doit.
I mean, why not?
Yeah, so that's, that's kind ofexciting.
And you know, again, I'm notlooking at anything as a silver
bullet, but I look at sort ofI've got this quiver of tools
(29:21):
and I'm trying to eliminate asmany of them that don't work,
because why mess around withthings that don't work or don't
serve me?
And I'm trying to take the thefewest amount of things that do
the most good, and that way Ican manage it and the diet's
enough, you know, to keep mebusy.
So I try to.
I try to keep all the extrathings.
(29:41):
You know, I like my soursop tea.
I think that's got some benefitand it doesn't hurt, and you
know it's easy enough to drinkand all of that but other other
than that, you know just.
I think the message really is,though, that this search for
answers and finding, beingwilling to take action when you
(30:02):
learned about something, andtaking the time to, you know,
get good information, listeningto different people Like I
shared these results with half adozen people that all have
medical backgrounds, and theyall basically agreed the same.
They all had about the same,the same result.
You know, full congratulationsand and and we're we're well on
(30:22):
our way.
So that, to me, was justundeniable.
Yeah, yeah.
But you know, sometimes there'sthere's information that could
be interpreted one way oranother, and that's why you know
, sometimes there's informationthat could be interpreted one
way or another, and that's why,you know, I try to get the
feedback from people I respectand look for.
You know anything, but I didn'tget anything other than
positive, so that makes me realhappy.
I'm looking forward to the 11th.
(30:44):
I have my appointment with themedical oncologist, so we're
going to be talking about theresults and you know what they
ask her.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Joe, you know, maybe not in the beginning, you just
say, well, with your proposedchemo radiation for the next
treatment, what would be the?
Speaker 1 (31:05):
chemo Right.
Exactly, that's exactly whatI'm going to do, and I've been
able to communicate with her,even when we didn't necessarily
agree, without beingconfrontational, and she's been
respectful of my point of view.
So I think we're okay to havethis conversation with her.
You know the?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
very fact that she treated you with this first trip
.
You know cycles of chemo, whichis really not in her guidebook?
Yeah, you know, it sort of is,but that's a good sign already.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Exactly, that's the way I looked at it.
It was in her playbook, enoughto consider it and she didn't
take any time to agree.
And you know I was in a direspace and I needed something to
happen and she knew that.
So I think that you know thathelped her make the decision
pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
but it didn't matter.
She's got to be impressed withthis result.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Oh, she is.
She is Absolutely Every timeshe's.
She's seen me twice since webegan the treatments and both
times she, you know her eyes gotbig and she's like here, get up
close to the camera.
I want to see that closer.
And you know she was real, realimpressed.
And then you know the, thepractitioner that I meet with or
(32:23):
was meeting with, you know,prior to the infusions she'd do
the same thing.
You know she was actually thereand you just watch her.
She'd be looking at me likewhoa.
You know it was just such asuch a dramatic change, you know
what's up?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
I just got a message on my phone that it's starting
to overheat got it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
We're about to the end.
I'm a little worried, okay?
Well, let's just go ahead andwe'll we'll close the session
down and we'll let your phoneget back to normal temperature.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Joe, then we'll see you on Sunday.
I look forward to it.
This has been another editionof the Healthy Living Podcast.
I'm your host, joe Grumbine.
Thank you for all your supportand we'll see you next week.
Bye for now.
All right, take care.
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