May 22, 2025 • 48 mins
When communication becomes challenging, how do we maintain the deep, meaningful connections that make life worth living? This provocative question lies at the heart of our conversation with Gael Hannan, writer, advocate, and bimodal hearing device user who brings remarkable insight into the intersection of hearing loss and intimate relationships.
Gail's perspective that "connection with others is as vital as air, water, food—and wine =) sets the tone for an exploration that goes far beyond technological solutions. She introduces us to the concept of "purpose-driven communication"—the deliberate structuring of interactions that allows for meaningful exchange despite hearing challenges. From morning routines with her husband to navigating arguments and emotional moments, Gael reveals the extra layer of consciousness required when hearing loss affects relationships.
What makes this discussion particularly valuable is its practical wisdom. Gael offers strategies for maintaining presence, creating structured opportunities for communication, and shifting focus from "hearing" to "communicating." She emphasizes that hearing aids work better when complemented by behavioral changes and attitude shifts, encouraging both those with hearing loss and their communication partners to develop deeper understanding.
Whether you're a hearing care professional seeking to better serve your patients, someone navigating relationships with hearing loss, or a communication partner trying to bridge the gap, this conversation offers profound guidance for moving beyond technological fixes to human solutions. Because at the end of the day, as Gael reminds us, "It's not just about hearing—it's about being heard."
Connect with the Hearing Matters Podcast Team
Email: hearingmatterspodcast@gmail.com
Instagram: @hearing_matters_podcast
Twitter: @hearing_mattas
Facebook: Hearing Matters Podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gael Hannan (00:00):
Well, that's a really personal question, Blaise
, and I'm actually very happy totalk about it.
Our rhythm in the morning and Idon't remember using that exact
phrase, but that's what youtook from that when I wake up in
the morning, I'm deaf, I'mnearsighted.
I'm really not at the top of mycommunication game.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - H (00:30):
You're tuned in to the hearing matters
podcast, the show thatdiscusses hearing technology,
best practices and a globalepidemic hearing loss.
Before we kick this episode off,a special thank you to our
partners.
Sycle (00:39):
built for the entire hearing care practice.
Redux (00:44):
the best dryer hands down.
CaptionC all by Sorenson (00:48):
Life is calling.
CareCredit (00:51):
here today to help more people hear tomorrow.
Fader Plugs (00:55):
the world's first custom adjustable earplug.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Hearing Matters Podcast.
I'm founder and host, blaiseDelfino, and, as a friendly
reminder, this podcast isseparate from my work at Starkey
.
You're tuned in to the HearingMatters Podcast, the show that
(01:18):
discusses hearing technology,best practices and a global
epidemic hearing loss.
I'm your host, blaise Delfino,and today we're exploring a
topic that's often overlooked inhearing healthcare but
essential to our emotional andrelational well-being intimacy
and hearing loss.
My guest is my good friend GaelHannan .
(01:41):
She is a writer, advocate andbimodal hearing device user who
brings both lived experience andthoughtful insight to this
conversation.
Gael has an upcoming TEDx talkon connection and human
communication, and today she'sgiving us a preview of some of
the powerful ideas she'll besharing.
From emotional closeness tophysical connection, Gael helps
(02:04):
us understand how hearing lossimpacts the way we show up in
relationships.
Whether you're a hearing careprofessional, someone with
hearing loss or a partnernavigating this path, this
episode has something for you.
So, Gael, let's get into it.
Welcome back to the HearingMatters podcast.
Gael Hannan (02:21):
I delight to be here, blaise, and I want to
thank you for laying such aheavy burden on me, having to
live up to that introduction andeverything we're going to talk
about, but it is an importanttopic and I'm absolutely
thrilled to be here with youtalking about it.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (02:36):
It is essential and this topic,
really, you brought to me inOctober and you planted the seed
and I had been thinking aboutthis and let's get right into it
.
You know, a couple of days ago,during a conversation that we
had, you had said that, blaise,connection with others is as
(02:58):
vital as air, water and food.
So can you just bring usthrough what inspired that
framing and how hearing loss hasshaped your understanding of
human connection?
Gael Hannan (03:11):
That's a really big question.
I just did want to correct youa little bit.
I did say it is as important asair, food and water, but you
left out wine and I just wantpodcast audience to understand
that.
That's fine.
That's fine.
It is as important that a humanconnection is vital to our
(03:36):
emotional well-being andsometimes even our physical
well-being, like, obviously, weneed to be able to breathe and
drink water and eat food.
But for so many of us, evenpeople who define themselves as
introverts, our connection withother people gives us our
humanity.
It gives us a reflection of whowe are.
(03:56):
It gives us a chance to behuman beings and live life fully
.
For us today, the conversationcomes around All right, we have
all that.
That connection is so importantfor life laughter, crying, loss
, dealing with these things.
But how does hearing loss impactthat?
And it has impacted my lifelifelong, because I have
(04:19):
congenital hearing loss and Igrew up with it, although it
took me years to understand,truly understand the impact of
my hearing loss on my daily lifeand my interactions with other
people.
And once I did start tounderstand that, as a person
(04:40):
with hearing loss, as a womanwith hearing loss, as a person
with hearing loss, as a womanwith hearing loss, it's a real
impact and I saw that perhaps Iwas not communicating to the
best of my ability, even with mydevices, and I made changes in
that and it was life changingand not everyone has that
opportunity to do that.
Because when you have hearingloss so often you go okay, I've
(05:02):
got hearing loss and you stayisolated.
You don't know you can reachout for help, you don't know
there are resources, you don'tknow that there are things that
you are missing.
So hearing loss has a bigimpact from missing the little
side comments that don't existto us because we didn't hear
them.
For us, struggling incommunication in difficult
(05:24):
surroundings and struggling whenwe are having moments of deep
humanness with other peoplewhether it's arguing with your
spouse and grief over loss of aparent or your cat Hearing loss
makes it harder, just puts anextra layer of work into the
conversation.
(05:44):
So I mean that's all thenegative side.
But then the things that we'regoing to get into today is talk
about how we can equalize thatbalance of struggle and
opportunity.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (05:56):
How do you bring up hearing loss
being isolating and we'll getinto this a little bit later.
But what I find so interestingis that in today's day and age,
we are the most sociallyconnected demographic really to
ever exist.
Then, put on top of theemerging technology with which
we have today those with hearingloss, you have incredible
(06:21):
technology.
You've got Bluetooth, you'vegot AuraCast being connected
from a technological standpoint.
Yet even though we have all ofthese technologies, individuals
who wear hearing technologyoftentimes still do feel
isolated, and you and Sherry anda bunch of other not only
(06:46):
subject matter experts, butthose living with the technology
are encouraging those wearingthe technology of.
This is how to remain connected, human to human while
leveraging that technology.
So in a recent conversation youhad mentioned that you and your
husband, doug have a uniquerhythm to your mornings.
Walk us through that experienceand really you know what it
(07:11):
reveals about intimacy andcommunication with hearing loss.
Gael Hannan (07:16):
Well, that's a really personal question, blaze,
and I'm actually very happy totalk about it.
Our rhythm in the morning and Idon't remember using that exact
phrase, but that's what youtook from that when I wake up in
the morning, I'm deaf, I'mnearsighted, I'm really not at
the top of my communication game.
So we don't verballycommunicate until I am connected
(07:43):
.
So I need to be connected andwe just, we just don't talk.
I'll tell you that's somethingI think about.
Oh, what would it be like to bea hearing person and what would
I love to be able to do?
And it would be the immediacyof communication that could wake
up in the morning and he'd saymorning honey, and I could say
(08:05):
morning honey, and then we justmove along with that little
moment.
We don't have those moments.
We have to create those momentsor to be able to communicate in
the dark, which I can't do.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (08:18):
Everyone's morning, of course, is
different and their morningroutine.
But you really touched thatpoint of you were saying how you
know.
Sure, it would be great if,when we woke up, we could say
good morning honey, good morningsweetheart.
You know I put the coffee onfor you, but you know we'll talk
about this purpose-drivencommunication.
You sort of have to prepyourself in the morning to have
(08:42):
that purpose-drivencommunication which absolutely
affects intimacy.
Gael Hannan (08:48):
Yeah, and I wonder if we could actually right now
just define what intimacy meansbefore we go any farther.
To me, intimacy so anyone who'stuning into this to figure out
a sex guide for people withhearing loss is going to be very
disappointed.
Maybe not completelydisappointed, but to me intimacy
is a deeper connection with aperson, and it could be your
(09:13):
lover, it could be your spouse,it can also be your family, your
children, and you know likehaving an intimate relationship
with my son means that we'reable to discuss things on a
level you know, a different kindof level.
So intimacy involvescommunication, and spoken
(09:33):
communication is the languagethat we use, regardless whether
it's English, italian, whatever.
Having hearing loss impacts thatability.
Whispered words we can't hear,so we have to ask someone to
repeat them or to speak up,which can cause the moment to
disappear or it can elevate it.
(09:57):
The barrier is we don't hear,but we have the ability to
overcome that using strategies.
But the other issue on intimacyis that we might hold ourselves
back from intimacy because weare afraid that we are not going
to hear someone.
That's going to be toodifficult.
So we and a typical example ofthis is what we used to call
(10:19):
slow dancing in high school youknow, slow dancing.
Oh, we're going to slow dancewith a boy tonight and you slow
dance.
But for a hearing aid user,instead of just like this, we're
like holding our head over herebecause we're nervous of our
hearing aids squealing and thisruins everything for us.
(10:40):
We're so focused on the fear ofembarrassing ourselves and
we're keeping ourselves frombeing intimate with that person.
Intimacy is a slow dance.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (10:51):
Gael , a couple of days ago we were
having a conversation and theword purpose-driven conversation
was brought up.
I thought it was so interestingbecause you had said that when
you and Doug wake up in themorning, you're essentially
priming yourself to then havethese purpose-driven
conversations.
So can you explain what youmean by purpose-driven
(11:15):
conversation and how that canshift relationship dynamics?
Gael Hannan (11:20):
Yeah, it can mean a number of different things and
it's different than a purposefulcommunication, which means that
I'm planning on talking to youand this is what I want to get
out of this conversation.
What I meant by purpose drivenis that it is set up and it is
managed.
So I need to communicate withyou.
(11:42):
I want to communicate with you.
I have to put things in placeso that can happen.
The basic is having my deviceson, making sure that we turn the
TV noise down and all of theseother things that we have to do
to manipulate our environment.
So it is a structured, so maybeit's structure conversation
(12:04):
might be a little bit, be moreapt here and again.
It's not about the content ofwhat we're talking about.
It's the actual interaction,the delivery of what we're
saying and receiving it fromthat other person.
I am always aware, always aware, and this is again, this is
where energy comes in.
I have to set it up.
(12:25):
Oh, I'm not going to hear himor her, or this is a group
situation.
So you sit over here.
You sit over here and so that Ican see your faces, and please
let us try to speak one at atime, all of these things.
So that is what I mean bypurpose-driven, a structured
communication for me.
(12:47):
I need to do what's right forme here, and if I don't do these
things, then I am not going tobe understanding at the same
level as the people with whomI'm communicating with.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (12:58):
I'm so excited because I truly
believe this episode is going tohelp a lot of individuals.
I recall when I was in privatepractice full time, you know the
patient would come in andoftentimes it was the husbands
who would say well, you know shejust mumbles, or my wife will
walk away and continue talking.
(13:20):
And there's that I don't wantto say denial, because the
patient's already in the office.
But they're definitely goingthrough that grieving process
and I could see how, let's say,someone in their 50s or 60s is
fit with hearing.
Technology is so used to howthey were communicating with
their loved one, with their wifeor their husband, for so many
(13:44):
years prior to that.
Now they almost have to learnhow to have these purpose-driven
conversations but then also tomaintain that intimacy.
It's almost like a changemanagement aspect as it relates
to communication.
Gael Hannan (14:00):
It totally is change management, which is not
a term we normally use inintimacy, but that's what it is.
If you don't, then you willdraw apart.
That's the isolating aspect andI'm sure you saw that so many
times with your clients in theoffices that they just retreat.
They're dealing with the stigmaof hearing loss.
(14:22):
The noise is bothering them.
It's just so much work tocommunicate that they don't, and
so that intimacy has beensuspended and I would say
suspended because I would hopethat they would regain that.
I had a bit of an advantage inthat I grew up with hearing loss
.
So when I connected with Doug,who I call the hearing husband
(14:46):
in my work, I already hadhearing loss.
In fact we worked together sowe first communicated in a
business environment, so alreadyknew and that was really
interesting to take that to apersonal level when it happened
and communicating well.
So we already had a leg upDoesn't mean he was always very
(15:08):
good at it.
I just throwing that in therebecause it's a learned behavior
and communication flow forhearing people.
You do what you do, you hear,you can't help it, Whereas we
and that's where the purposedriven, we, we deliberately have
to work to hear.
That's where the drive and the.
(15:28):
I know what I have to do.
How much time were you able tospend with your husband and wife
client to help them with thestrategies on that?
And that's why I know thistopic is very important to you.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (15:44):
Absolutely , and that's where, again, I
don't want to personally bringus down a rabbit hole but the
use of remote microphones reallyto bridge that gap of let's,
increase the signal to noiseratio.
So if you are apart from eachother in one room and the other
room, it's easier to communicate.
But, Gael, I'm curious, what issomething about communication
(16:07):
and connection that hearingpeople might take for granted
but might often be a challengeor even a conscious effort in
hearing loss relationships?
Gael Hannan (16:20):
We don't have the spontaneity that you have, and
so much can happen in a moment.
If we don't hear a comment, theconversation goes on without us
because we don't have thatinformation and we don't have
that information.
I can't tell you how many timesI have emerged from
(16:40):
conversation with a totally noteven different takeaway or
opinion.
But I'm on a different planetand we don't have that
spontaneity and which can causefriction down the road to.
We have two types of of whatarguing my husband and I.
One is when we're having adisagreement, which is rare,
(17:02):
because he doesn't like to argue.
I'd like to.
I should be Italian, I want toget it all out there.
He would just rather leave theroom.
One is that we're having adiscussion about something and I
might not catch what he'ssaying.
So it just takes more work inthis intimate argument, because
disagreements are part ofintimacy as well being able to
(17:22):
communicate and feel safe.
I might have misunderstood him.
Whatever we're talking about,that's one aspect of arguing
with hearing loss.
The other is we're arguingabout hearing loss and how, even
after a million years together,the hearing husband will go
blah, blah, blah, walks off.
(17:44):
Blah, blah, blah.
I said.
Do you think that my hearingreturned overnight.
Do you think my ability tounderstand returned overnight,
which doesn't help because I seedee, dee, dee.
So that is the other type.
We argue about communicationbecause it is a constant there.
As the third, it's the elephantin the room that we always have
(18:05):
to deal with every single day,my husband and I.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (18:08):
And thank you for being vulnerable
and sharing that Because, again,we want to encourage current
hearing aid users today whetheryou were just diagnosed or just
fit today, this week or, youknow, months prior to have that
open dialogue with your spouseon hey, you know, yes, this is
(18:32):
new for both of us, but how canwe continue to maintain our
intimacy and ensure that we'recommunicating effectively?
So, Gael, you shared ahilarious story about
glow-in-the-dark lipstick andnot hearing in the dark.
So what do moments like thatsort of teach us about adapting
(18:52):
humor and closeness inrelationships?
Gael Hannan (18:55):
Just a little background on this
hearing-in-the-dark lipstick,just in case someone goes that's
a great idea.
Well, it's not a great ideabecause, back to the point, I
can't converse in the dark, I amdeaf in the dark and if you
think about it, yeah, dark, twodifferent senses.
But no, I cannot communicate inthe dark.
Not going to happen, don't eventry.
(19:17):
I might hear a noise, so butagain, back to that spontaneity.
I would love to be able tocommunicate in the dark, and
this speaks to moments ofurgency, for example and this
has happened being parentsraising a child, and in the
middle, or whenever in themiddle of the night, I get a on
(19:38):
my shoulder which means there isan issue.
It could mean I'm snoring, butusually it means there's an
issue.
Get up and I go okay, all right, but what do I have to do?
I have to turn on the light,reach over, open my.
Actually now I have to go intoanother room, get out my devices
and have that conversation,which hopefully isn't too
(19:58):
serious.
I thought it would be.
So again, it's just a yearningfor that being able to be in the
moment, right then and therewith my husband or whoever.
The glow in the dark lipstick, Ithought, wouldn't that be a
great idea?
I'd be able to see his lipsmoving.
But if you know anything aboutspeech reading, if you saw the
(20:20):
lips moving.
There's no other context.
You don't know whether myhusband's crying because
something happened or he'sscared or whatever.
So it's just to illustrate thatso many things need to be in
place for us to have thosemoments, for us to communicate,
to share a moment, and so muchof communication is in the
(20:41):
little moments.
You know one thing that we'lldo if we pass each other he's
going outside, I'm coming insidewe just let our fingers touch
as we pass each other.
I'm sure everyone does this tosome degree, or maybe they don't
, but that is our touch, is somuch of our connection and our
(21:03):
looks and our smiles, our facialexpressions.
Unfortunately, I often like I'msmiling now, but my go-to face
is this, and that's because I'vespent a lifetime trying to
understand frown, frowning, andthis can be very off-putting for
(21:24):
people, especially when hearingloss enters a relationship of
people who've been together fora while.
It's frowning, people thinkthey've done something wrong, or
it's scary.
Growing up, my mother used tosay smile, Gael, I go, I am.
I didn't know I wasn't smiling,I was just focusing on what was
being said.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (21:44):
You said a couple of minutes ago
that touch and shared lookssometimes fill in the gaps where
words can't like.
When you and your husband passeach other and grazing hands, I
mean that is language betweenthe two of you and you're
maintaining that intimacy.
Talk to us about the role ofnonverbal communication in your
marriage and how that supportsemotional intimacy.
(22:06):
That sounds like a PhD thesis.
Well, Gael, if there's anyoneto write this thesis and talk
about it, it is absolutely you,because you are a distinguished
author.
Gael Hannan (22:17):
We are so visual, people with hearing loss.
We are so visual because wedepend on all the senses, even
the sense of smell.
We use these things we all doas people, but we rely heavy on
the visual.
It is a myth that if one sensegoes, another sense gets better.
(22:40):
Now what happens is that we useit more and we are more
dependent on it and we'velearned how to use it.
So, people with hearing loss,we are visual people, always
looking, and we need to look andtake information from the faces
of the people that we'recommunicating with.
That's why, if all of a sudden,people start frowning, what did
(23:04):
I miss?
What did I miss In speechreading?
We read, not just the lips.
I mean, I don't just stare atyour lips.
Blaze, May I compliment you ona well-trimmed mustache.
Very good, that's important.
But the eyes and the bodylanguage and all of these things
are so important.
And touch, oh touch.
(23:24):
Imagine if you couldn't, if youcouldn't touch someone, if you
couldn't.
You're a new dad, you know.
Touching your son, touchingyour wife.
It is a nonverbal form ofcommunication, reassurance of
love.
I, as a person with hearing loss, things are very, very
important to me.
If I can't see you, I'm notgoing to understand you, Unless,
(23:44):
of course, I'm the phone comingstraight into my ears.
But generally speaking, whenwe're talking face-to-face
communication or livenon-technical communication, I
need to see you, I need to sortof soak in what you're telling
me and I need to interpret that,which I still may misinterpret
(24:08):
frequently If the facialexpression isn't quite with the
words or tone of voice or thatperson is not being totally
present or intimate.
So all of those things, what wesee, what we hear, what we feel
.
And then there's that when Isay what we feel, what we hear,
what we feel, and then there'sthat I say what we feel, that
(24:28):
that emotional exchange, all ofthese other things contribute to
that emotional exchange orintimacy between people.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HI (24:37):
Thank you so much for touching on
that, Gael, because we've beenfor the.
You know the first half of thisepisode talking about emotional
intimacy because unfortunately,when someone hears the word
intimacy, they just go right tothe physical aspects and that's
not correct.
There's so much more tointimacy than just that.
But I do want to dive into thevulnerability of physical
(25:01):
intimacy, and you had shared adeeply moving story about a
former partner who gentlychallenged the choice to remove
your hearing aid during physicalintimacy.
And what did that moment teachyou and how did it carry into
your marriage with Doug?
Gael Hannan (25:21):
It's one of those moments that you only realize in
hindsight the impact of thatmoment.
And I had a partner, aboyfriend, and at the time I was
in the practice of beforehaving being intimate with a
partner and making love.
(25:48):
I would take out my device and,you know, at that time my
hearing loss wasn't as severe.
I could still hear someone, butessentially I took out my mode
of hearing and my boyfriend saidwhy do you do that?
And I said Well, I'm just justvery aware of it.
I'm afraid that it'll squeakand that's embarrassing and, uh,
(26:11):
I wasn't really worried aboutit falling out.
Um, but again, it was thatstigma.
And he said I, I don't want youto do that, I want you I mean
you, you know, without goinginto too much detail to be able
to hear and participate and talk.
And which, if I don't hear aswell, how am I going to, you
(26:31):
know?
So I went, oh, okay, so Istarted wearing my hearing aid.
Years later, with my nowhusband, I told him this story
and as I was telling him thisstory, it was so beautiful, His
(26:51):
eyes filled with tears and hesaid I am so grateful to him for
that gift that he gave you tohelp you through that moment.
So it was.
It was a big thing, and so thatwas my former boyfriend's gift
to my husband by helping methrough that and becoming truly
(27:16):
allowing myself to be moreintimate and fully communicating
with my partner, with my lover,with my husband.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (27:24):
Well , Gael, thank you.
Thank you so much for being sovulnerable because you know we
my lover with my husband Well,Gael, thank you.
Thank you so much for being sovulnerable, because you know we
had connected, of course, priorto recording this episode, and
that was a story that you wantedto share with our audience.
So so, thank you for that and,following up on that, a lot of
it was.
You had talked about feelingflawed.
(27:47):
The internal question that canarise of will I still be loved
now that I'm quote, flawed?
And for people who might bestruggling with that self-worth
in their relationships, whatwould you want them to hear?
Gael Hannan (28:02):
You have hearing loss.
You may be a flawed person, butit's not because of your
hearing loss, whatever flaws youwe're all flawed.
We're all flawed right, yeah,that hearing loss is.
You didn't cause this.
Most likely, you were not thecause of this A significant
percentage of the population.
This is part of the humancondition.
(28:23):
This is the physicalmanifestation of a body not
working.
We're organic beings and weshould not feel that we are
flawed, allowing ourselves tofeel that we are lesser than or
buying into that stigma becauseit might have been drilled into
us through our society, through,maybe, families.
I hear so many horror storiesof people growing up with
(28:46):
hearing loss and their familiesjust didn't want them to mention
it, talk about it, know aboutit.
You are not flawed and if youhold yourself back from things
that you used to do or being asopen with people and conversing
with them, communicating withthem, being intimate with them,
(29:09):
you're only causing yourselfundue stress.
This isn't something I learnedovernight.
I only realized how much stigmahad been driving me that guy.
We're expecting a baby and forthe first time, my hearing loss
worried me.
Because what if I couldn't hearmy child?
And I didn't know.
(29:30):
This is what actually led meinto hearing loss advocacy.
I didn't know anyone else withhearing loss or significant
hearing loss no one in my circleso I reached out to other
people with hearing loss.
I went to a conference theCanadian Heart of Hearing
Association.
A woman sat down with me andshe had a baby in her arms who
(29:53):
clearly had thrived, even thoughhis mommy or her mommy had
hearing loss, and that waswonderful.
That was very affirming for me.
But it was also being at thatconference and I walked out of
there a different person.
I walked out of there with awoman, a profound and new,
better self-image of myself as aperson with hearing loss and
(30:16):
that's what drove me forward toeverything.
What I started doing.
And you know my baby thrived.
He's almost 30.
He's six foot seven, the bestcommunicator I know, and he
really took having a mom withhearing loss to heart and he
knows he's a really goodcommunicator.
But the stigma vanished for meat that conference, which is why
(30:40):
, meeting other people withhearing loss or listening to
podcasts with people withhearing loss and taking what you
learn from them, with what youlearn from hearing care
providers, because hearing lossaffects all aspects of our life,
we need strategies for allaspects of our life, including
intimacy, including allowingourselves to reconnect and be
(31:02):
close to people again,regardless of what role they
play in our life and it doestake some knowledge and some
work and some time.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (31:11):
And Gael, you just teed me up there
because when you talk about,even after all these years of
being married, there's stillthis quote communication
friction, but the importance offinding your tribe and leaning
into a community and leaninginto individuals who know what
(31:32):
you're going through.
You don't feel so alone.
Then Hearing loss is isolatingalready and there's a book
called the Mountain Is you and Iread that for the first time
like three weeks ago and I waslike oh my gosh, and it might be
(31:56):
because of a stigma, but we'reencouraging.
If you're tuned in right nowand you are new to wearing
hearing technology, lean intothat community.
Reach out to Gael, because it'sso important.
Gael Hannan (32:03):
Finding community.
We use all these buzzwords butI did.
I found community.
I hear so many people say theyfeel caught between the hearing
world and the deaf world and Itried to argue that I don't have
the right words.
I understand they feel thatthey don't communicate
effectively with anyone Most ofus with acquired hearing loss or
(32:26):
who still use spoken language.
The deaf community is not ourcommunity, the signing deaf
community.
We use spoken language and ourcommunity might not be as well
defined, with its own languageand with its own cultures, but
it's about being able to learnhow to communicate better and by
(32:48):
having other people meetingwith them, even however briefly.
It's affirming.
It's just a sense of theyunderstand and oh, that's
interesting that they do that.
I'll try that.
That might work for me.
Peace, knowing that you're notflawed.
That this is a condition thatthe World Health Organization
(33:09):
says that by 2050, the number ofpeople worldwide with disabling
hearing loss meaning they needtechnology or help to hear will
double.
It's over 700 million In 25years.
That's going to happen.
It's a global epidemic.
A global epidemic.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (33:26):
I don't want to go too deep here,
but I do have the question aboutfiguring it out with your
spouse, meaning theconversational glitches that
might occur.
But I'm really interested, Gael, in psychology as a whole
because at the end of the day,humans it's all psychology,
right Our brains operate, ourbodies and how we respond and
(33:49):
act, and there is definitely adifference between the mind and
the brain.
Either way, I'm interested inwhat's called the maladaptive
schemas and there's differentschemas and one of them is like
unrelenting standards,punitiveness, and there's all
different ones and I just I liketo ask questions and be curious
(34:10):
.
And it's like you know, whensomeone is diagnosed with
hearing loss later in life, ifthey already presented with a
high schema of unrelentingstandards, that might increase
to very high because now they'reused to being performance
driven, performance based.
Now a hearing impairment, theymight think, is going to stop me
(34:32):
or hinder me, which is not thecase.
So the reason I bring that up totee out this question is
figuring it out and navigatingand pivoting, even after 35
years of marriage.
You've said that there's stillfriction, like Doug walking away
and mumbling.
I feel like we're picking onDoug a lot here and I haven't
(34:53):
even met him, but I'm sure he'sa wonderful, wonderful guy and
pleasure to meet you over thispodcast, Doug.
But what are some of theeveryday glitches that you've
learned to navigate and whatadvice would you give to couples
today?
Maybe one of them is hearingimpaired, the other is not still
figuring that out.
Gael Hannan (35:13):
First of all I would like to apologize to my
husband, doug, because he's notthe only one who causes the bad
communication moments.
I also make mistakes on a dailybasis.
You know.
One of the things that tonavigate it and this is really
important is what I've learnedafter that time.
(35:34):
At that conference, I startedto understand hearing loss
better when you understandwhat's going on and how hearing
works at its best, at its mostnatural, and what makes it not
work.
If you have a commitment tounderstanding that, then you
will understand howcommunication can go wrong and
(35:57):
how it can be improved.
And even now it constantlysurprises me that it's not going
to come out quite the right way.
Douglas can't instinctivelyunderstand hearing loss, even
though he's married to mebecause he is a hearing person.
He still operates under thefact that he hears well.
But as time has gone on and hebetter understands the reality
(36:22):
of hearing loss and he's totallyimpacted by my hearing loss.
So he understands what it'slike to be the hearing spouse of
a person with hearing loss.
But when he better understandshow hearing actually works and
what causes it not to, then hecan also anticipate when things
are not going to be good, and soI really believe that to
(36:43):
navigate it, to understand theimpact of hearing loss even
before the impact, understandhearing loss, understand its
impact, understand what willhelp restore communication, and
that takes work, it just does.
And this is where the role ofthe hearing care professional I
think should be amplified.
(37:05):
I think that the hearing careprofessional in some ways needs
to offer more support in thisarea of oral rehabilitation.
Yes, yeah, and if they can't doit in office, then use
resources outside of theirclinical time, which means
(37:25):
referring people and to peerresources.
And I'm also going to say Ithink that peer resources,
consumer resources, need to besupported by the professional
hearing care community, becausewhen you have organizations like
the Hearing Loss Association ofAmerica and other countries,
(37:45):
they need to be giving qualifiedadvice, they need to be giving
trained advice, and it does takemoney.
And I'm saying this because Isee so often that consumer
groups are sort of looked downon by professional groups and
sometimes consumer groups.
Blaise Delfino, M (38:02):
Collaboration is essential because it is
absolutely a trickle down effect.
I am a hearing careprofessional and when it comes
to the you know, oralrehabilitation, you do have
tools like Lace AI Pro.
That is a tool that isavailable to consumers today.
That addresses AR, which isoral rehabilitation.
(38:26):
But hearing care professionalsshould be walking with their
patients throughout this journeyand what are the conversations
they're having at theirfollow-ups?
The unfortunate truth, I guess,is majority of hearing care
professionals aren't evenconducting real ear measurement,
(38:46):
and that's a technologicalaspect of what we do.
I can imagine less than 15% ofhearing care professionals have
a oral rehabilitation program.
And why is that important?
Because you are working withyour patient on how to
communicate in this new hearingworld.
Gael Hannan (39:03):
Hearing aids work better when they have other
things in place.
So, and when Sherry Ebers and Italk about in our book here and
Beyond these other things thatpeople with hearing loss need,
beyond this understanding we'vebeen talking about is a shift in
attitudes, you know, gettingrid of the stigma and having
(39:25):
understanding how like, forexample, when I change my goal
from hearing to communicating.
Better things change for me,but we need that and we also
need to learn how tocommunication behaviors.
I think we're not going too faroff on intimacy, because how we
communicate affects ourintimate lives and hearing care
professionals.
(39:46):
So often I've been speaking touniversity audiology programs
for 20 to 30 years, and I'vespoken at many professional
conferences, and so often,though, we hear, I hear, and
Sherry hears, we hear together.
Oh, so great to hear the clientperspective Excuse me, the
(40:08):
client perspective.
It should be underpinning ofyour service to understanding
what we need, and too much of afocus on the hearing technology.
Yes, it's the first importantstop.
Oh, wow, now I can hear better.
But everything we've talkedabout is not the only thing in
communication.
Encourage all of themanufacturers to introduce to
(40:34):
not only their client networkhearing care professionals but
also their employees tounderstand the deep dive into
what we feel and need.
Yes, your hearing aid may begreat, but this is what you need
to know and I feel so stronglyabout this.
(40:55):
I feel that just stop with thetotal focus that if all of these
new technical terms, these newhearing aid come out, it has
this, this and this and this.
What the hell does that mean tome?
I don't know.
Is it going to help me in myconversation with my husband?
Is it going to help me dealwith the anxiety I feel?
How will I know how to do this?
(41:16):
How will I find the words toexpress my emotions in an
intimate setting?
So I just really encouragehearing care professionals to
make it a point to learn that.
Reach out to us really andabsorb.
Don't assume that you know itbecause you're an audiologist or
(41:36):
hearing instrument specialist,unless you have hearing loss
yourself.
You don't know it, in spite ofeverything you've learned in the
books.
Find out and add that knowledge, add that deeper level of
understanding of your client andyou will help yourself and you
will help us more, because weneed help.
We're not helpless people, butwe need help to communicate.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (42:00):
And Gael, the importance of being
present as a hearing careprofessional when you are
working with your patient,because you shouldn't be
thinking about the next patientyou have.
When you are fully presentthere.
You're learning about thepatient, learning about their
needs, who their communicationpartners are.
(42:20):
Are they married?
What does that look like?
What are some barriers to entrythat might be affecting this
specific patient?
And, speaking of being present,you've spoken about being
present in the moment and notbluffing.
Expand on what presence lookslike in practice for someone
(42:41):
who's hard of hearing or theirpartner.
Gael Hannan (42:43):
What I'm talking about being present is that I am
not bluffing.
I am fully engaged in thatconversation, regardless of what
that conversation is, and theonly way I can be fully engaged
is that I have created orensured that I am understanding
(43:05):
and hearing.
Therefore, I need to be able tohear, see the person.
So I've reduced backgroundnoise.
There's plenty of light, takeoff your ball cap, get your hand
away from your mouth.
These are all the simple thingsthat if I don't have these in
place, I can't possibly bepresent in the conversation.
(43:26):
The other type of presencemeans I'm really fully
interested in what you're saying, which I'm not always.
So that's a different type ofbeing present.
But for me, being present meansthat I've removed those
barriers and so I am free tofully communicate.
Those barriers are there.
I'm going to be straining.
(43:47):
That doesn't mean I won't saypardon, but I have created the
best possible communication withthat person.
So with my husband, we have ahot tub and we go in the hot tub
every morning and it is verymuch our time when we can sit
and it's just us talking ratherthan moving around, shifting,
(44:10):
doing things.
You know, working, writing.
My husband isn't one for long,long conversations, and so this
is why being in a hot tub for 40minutes and it's our time and
so we, that's really precious toboth of us.
He may not use the wordprecious, but it's important to
(44:31):
him, so that we're face to face,we can hear he turns off the
whirlpool because I can't hearwell the background noise, plus
it's outside.
I like to hear the birds.
So we created that is apurpose-driven conversation,
right, and that is an intimatemoment or intimate time with my
(44:54):
husband when we are focused oneach other.
And that's another definitionof intimacy, it's focus.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (45:02):
Absolutely , Gael.
This has been such a wonderfulconversation For our listeners
with hearing loss.
What message do you hope thatthey carry with them after
hearing your story?
Gael Hannan (45:20):
I would hope that it might be a starting point to
reflect on how you communicateand I would say you, it's a
starting point to reflect on howwe communicate.
You, that is a starting pointto reflect on how we communicate
.
You can look at your life withhearing loss and say I'm pretty
(45:40):
happy with it and I think I'mdoing all the right things.
That's great, but if not, it'sa starting point.
You have the right.
We have the right to intimacy.
We have the right toparticipate.
My byline for years was it'snot just about hearing, it's
about being heard, and that issomething that we all have the
(46:01):
right to and we can all grow.
You know we talked aboutrelationships growing and
deepening, and we can contributeto that by being more present
and being more purpose-driven.
So I hope this is a startingpoint for even if there's one
person listening or watching,that this might start a new
(46:26):
conversation in your life.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (46:27):
Well , that's it for today's episode
of the Hearing Matters podcast.
A huge thank you to Gael Hannonfor her openness, vulnerability
and, of course, wisdom.
Intimacy is about presence,communication and mutual care
and, Gael, you reminded us that,even with hearing loss, those
things are not out of reach.
(46:48):
They just take a littleintention, and if today's
episode resonated with you,please share it with someone you
care about.
And, as always, we'll catch younext time right here on the
Hearing Matters podcast.
Until next time, hear life'sstory.
Well, that's a really personal question, Blaise
, and I'm actually very happy totalk about it.
Our rhythm in the morning and Idon't remember using that exact
phrase, but that's what youtook from that when I wake up in
the morning, I'm deaf, I'mnearsighted.
I'm really not at the top of mycommunication game.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - H (00:30):
You're tuned in to the hearing matters
podcast, the show thatdiscusses hearing technology,
best practices and a globalepidemic hearing loss.
Before we kick this episode off,a special thank you to our
partners.
Sycle (00:39):
built for the entire hearing care practice.
Redux (00:44):
the best dryer hands down.
CaptionC all by Sorenson (00:48):
Life is calling.
CareCredit (00:51):
here today to help more people hear tomorrow.
Fader Plugs (00:55):
the world's first custom adjustable earplug.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Hearing Matters Podcast.
I'm founder and host, blaiseDelfino, and, as a friendly
reminder, this podcast isseparate from my work at Starkey
.
You're tuned in to the HearingMatters Podcast, the show that
(01:18):
discusses hearing technology,best practices and a global
epidemic hearing loss.
I'm your host, blaise Delfino,and today we're exploring a
topic that's often overlooked inhearing healthcare but
essential to our emotional andrelational well-being intimacy
and hearing loss.
My guest is my good friend GaelHannan .
(01:41):
She is a writer, advocate andbimodal hearing device user who
brings both lived experience andthoughtful insight to this
conversation.
Gael has an upcoming TEDx talkon connection and human
communication, and today she'sgiving us a preview of some of
the powerful ideas she'll besharing.
From emotional closeness tophysical connection, Gael helps
(02:04):
us understand how hearing lossimpacts the way we show up in
relationships.
Whether you're a hearing careprofessional, someone with
hearing loss or a partnernavigating this path, this
episode has something for you.
So, Gael, let's get into it.
Welcome back to the HearingMatters podcast.
Gael Hannan (02:21):
I delight to be here, blaise, and I want to
thank you for laying such aheavy burden on me, having to
live up to that introduction andeverything we're going to talk
about, but it is an importanttopic and I'm absolutely
thrilled to be here with youtalking about it.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (02:36):
It is essential and this topic,
really, you brought to me inOctober and you planted the seed
and I had been thinking aboutthis and let's get right into it
.
You know, a couple of days ago,during a conversation that we
had, you had said that, blaise,connection with others is as
(02:58):
vital as air, water and food.
So can you just bring usthrough what inspired that
framing and how hearing loss hasshaped your understanding of
human connection?
Gael Hannan (03:11):
That's a really big question.
I just did want to correct youa little bit.
I did say it is as important asair, food and water, but you
left out wine and I just wantpodcast audience to understand
that.
That's fine.
That's fine.
It is as important that a humanconnection is vital to our
(03:36):
emotional well-being andsometimes even our physical
well-being, like, obviously, weneed to be able to breathe and
drink water and eat food.
But for so many of us, evenpeople who define themselves as
introverts, our connection withother people gives us our
humanity.
It gives us a reflection of whowe are.
(03:56):
It gives us a chance to behuman beings and live life fully
.
For us today, the conversationcomes around All right, we have
all that.
That connection is so importantfor life laughter, crying, loss
, dealing with these things.
But how does hearing loss impactthat?
And it has impacted my lifelifelong, because I have
(04:19):
congenital hearing loss and Igrew up with it, although it
took me years to understand,truly understand the impact of
my hearing loss on my daily lifeand my interactions with other
people.
And once I did start tounderstand that, as a person
(04:40):
with hearing loss, as a womanwith hearing loss, as a person
with hearing loss, as a womanwith hearing loss, it's a real
impact and I saw that perhaps Iwas not communicating to the
best of my ability, even with mydevices, and I made changes in
that and it was life changingand not everyone has that
opportunity to do that.
Because when you have hearingloss so often you go okay, I've
(05:02):
got hearing loss and you stayisolated.
You don't know you can reachout for help, you don't know
there are resources, you don'tknow that there are things that
you are missing.
So hearing loss has a bigimpact from missing the little
side comments that don't existto us because we didn't hear
them.
For us, struggling incommunication in difficult
(05:24):
surroundings and struggling whenwe are having moments of deep
humanness with other peoplewhether it's arguing with your
spouse and grief over loss of aparent or your cat Hearing loss
makes it harder, just puts anextra layer of work into the
conversation.
(05:44):
So I mean that's all thenegative side.
But then the things that we'regoing to get into today is talk
about how we can equalize thatbalance of struggle and
opportunity.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (05:56):
How do you bring up hearing loss
being isolating and we'll getinto this a little bit later.
But what I find so interestingis that in today's day and age,
we are the most sociallyconnected demographic really to
ever exist.
Then, put on top of theemerging technology with which
we have today those with hearingloss, you have incredible
(06:21):
technology.
You've got Bluetooth, you'vegot AuraCast being connected
from a technological standpoint.
Yet even though we have all ofthese technologies, individuals
who wear hearing technologyoftentimes still do feel
isolated, and you and Sherry anda bunch of other not only
(06:46):
subject matter experts, butthose living with the technology
are encouraging those wearingthe technology of.
This is how to remain connected, human to human while
leveraging that technology.
So in a recent conversation youhad mentioned that you and your
husband, doug have a uniquerhythm to your mornings.
Walk us through that experienceand really you know what it
(07:11):
reveals about intimacy andcommunication with hearing loss.
Gael Hannan (07:16):
Well, that's a really personal question, blaze,
and I'm actually very happy totalk about it.
Our rhythm in the morning and Idon't remember using that exact
phrase, but that's what youtook from that when I wake up in
the morning, I'm deaf, I'mnearsighted, I'm really not at
the top of my communication game.
So we don't verballycommunicate until I am connected
(07:43):
.
So I need to be connected andwe just, we just don't talk.
I'll tell you that's somethingI think about.
Oh, what would it be like to bea hearing person and what would
I love to be able to do?
And it would be the immediacyof communication that could wake
up in the morning and he'd saymorning honey, and I could say
(08:05):
morning honey, and then we justmove along with that little
moment.
We don't have those moments.
We have to create those momentsor to be able to communicate in
the dark, which I can't do.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (08:18):
Everyone's morning, of course, is
different and their morningroutine.
But you really touched thatpoint of you were saying how you
know.
Sure, it would be great if,when we woke up, we could say
good morning honey, good morningsweetheart.
You know I put the coffee onfor you, but you know we'll talk
about this purpose-drivencommunication.
You sort of have to prepyourself in the morning to have
(08:42):
that purpose-drivencommunication which absolutely
affects intimacy.
Gael Hannan (08:48):
Yeah, and I wonder if we could actually right now
just define what intimacy meansbefore we go any farther.
To me, intimacy so anyone who'stuning into this to figure out
a sex guide for people withhearing loss is going to be very
disappointed.
Maybe not completelydisappointed, but to me intimacy
is a deeper connection with aperson, and it could be your
(09:13):
lover, it could be your spouse,it can also be your family, your
children, and you know likehaving an intimate relationship
with my son means that we'reable to discuss things on a
level you know, a different kindof level.
So intimacy involvescommunication, and spoken
(09:33):
communication is the languagethat we use, regardless whether
it's English, italian, whatever.
Having hearing loss impacts thatability.
Whispered words we can't hear,so we have to ask someone to
repeat them or to speak up,which can cause the moment to
disappear or it can elevate it.
(09:57):
The barrier is we don't hear,but we have the ability to
overcome that using strategies.
But the other issue on intimacyis that we might hold ourselves
back from intimacy because weare afraid that we are not going
to hear someone.
That's going to be toodifficult.
So we and a typical example ofthis is what we used to call
(10:19):
slow dancing in high school youknow, slow dancing.
Oh, we're going to slow dancewith a boy tonight and you slow
dance.
But for a hearing aid user,instead of just like this, we're
like holding our head over herebecause we're nervous of our
hearing aids squealing and thisruins everything for us.
(10:40):
We're so focused on the fear ofembarrassing ourselves and
we're keeping ourselves frombeing intimate with that person.
Intimacy is a slow dance.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (10:51):
Gael , a couple of days ago we were
having a conversation and theword purpose-driven conversation
was brought up.
I thought it was so interestingbecause you had said that when
you and Doug wake up in themorning, you're essentially
priming yourself to then havethese purpose-driven
conversations.
So can you explain what youmean by purpose-driven
(11:15):
conversation and how that canshift relationship dynamics?
Gael Hannan (11:20):
Yeah, it can mean a number of different things and
it's different than a purposefulcommunication, which means that
I'm planning on talking to youand this is what I want to get
out of this conversation.
What I meant by purpose drivenis that it is set up and it is
managed.
So I need to communicate withyou.
(11:42):
I want to communicate with you.
I have to put things in placeso that can happen.
The basic is having my deviceson, making sure that we turn the
TV noise down and all of theseother things that we have to do
to manipulate our environment.
So it is a structured, so maybeit's structure conversation
(12:04):
might be a little bit, be moreapt here and again.
It's not about the content ofwhat we're talking about.
It's the actual interaction,the delivery of what we're
saying and receiving it fromthat other person.
I am always aware, always aware, and this is again, this is
where energy comes in.
I have to set it up.
(12:25):
Oh, I'm not going to hear himor her, or this is a group
situation.
So you sit over here.
You sit over here and so that Ican see your faces, and please
let us try to speak one at atime, all of these things.
So that is what I mean bypurpose-driven, a structured
communication for me.
(12:47):
I need to do what's right forme here, and if I don't do these
things, then I am not going tobe understanding at the same
level as the people with whomI'm communicating with.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (12:58):
I'm so excited because I truly
believe this episode is going tohelp a lot of individuals.
I recall when I was in privatepractice full time, you know the
patient would come in andoftentimes it was the husbands
who would say well, you know shejust mumbles, or my wife will
walk away and continue talking.
(13:20):
And there's that I don't wantto say denial, because the
patient's already in the office.
But they're definitely goingthrough that grieving process
and I could see how, let's say,someone in their 50s or 60s is
fit with hearing.
Technology is so used to howthey were communicating with
their loved one, with their wifeor their husband, for so many
(13:44):
years prior to that.
Now they almost have to learnhow to have these purpose-driven
conversations but then also tomaintain that intimacy.
It's almost like a changemanagement aspect as it relates
to communication.
Gael Hannan (14:00):
It totally is change management, which is not
a term we normally use inintimacy, but that's what it is.
If you don't, then you willdraw apart.
That's the isolating aspect andI'm sure you saw that so many
times with your clients in theoffices that they just retreat.
They're dealing with the stigmaof hearing loss.
(14:22):
The noise is bothering them.
It's just so much work tocommunicate that they don't, and
so that intimacy has beensuspended and I would say
suspended because I would hopethat they would regain that.
I had a bit of an advantage inthat I grew up with hearing loss
.
So when I connected with Doug,who I call the hearing husband
(14:46):
in my work, I already hadhearing loss.
In fact we worked together sowe first communicated in a
business environment, so alreadyknew and that was really
interesting to take that to apersonal level when it happened
and communicating well.
So we already had a leg upDoesn't mean he was always very
(15:08):
good at it.
I just throwing that in therebecause it's a learned behavior
and communication flow forhearing people.
You do what you do, you hear,you can't help it, Whereas we
and that's where the purposedriven, we, we deliberately have
to work to hear.
That's where the drive and the.
(15:28):
I know what I have to do.
How much time were you able tospend with your husband and wife
client to help them with thestrategies on that?
And that's why I know thistopic is very important to you.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (15:44):
Absolutely , and that's where, again, I
don't want to personally bringus down a rabbit hole but the
use of remote microphones reallyto bridge that gap of let's,
increase the signal to noiseratio.
So if you are apart from eachother in one room and the other
room, it's easier to communicate.
But, Gael, I'm curious, what issomething about communication
(16:07):
and connection that hearingpeople might take for granted
but might often be a challengeor even a conscious effort in
hearing loss relationships?
Gael Hannan (16:20):
We don't have the spontaneity that you have, and
so much can happen in a moment.
If we don't hear a comment, theconversation goes on without us
because we don't have thatinformation and we don't have
that information.
I can't tell you how many timesI have emerged from
(16:40):
conversation with a totally noteven different takeaway or
opinion.
But I'm on a different planetand we don't have that
spontaneity and which can causefriction down the road to.
We have two types of of whatarguing my husband and I.
One is when we're having adisagreement, which is rare,
(17:02):
because he doesn't like to argue.
I'd like to.
I should be Italian, I want toget it all out there.
He would just rather leave theroom.
One is that we're having adiscussion about something and I
might not catch what he'ssaying.
So it just takes more work inthis intimate argument, because
disagreements are part ofintimacy as well being able to
(17:22):
communicate and feel safe.
I might have misunderstood him.
Whatever we're talking about,that's one aspect of arguing
with hearing loss.
The other is we're arguingabout hearing loss and how, even
after a million years together,the hearing husband will go
blah, blah, blah, walks off.
(17:44):
Blah, blah, blah.
I said.
Do you think that my hearingreturned overnight.
Do you think my ability tounderstand returned overnight,
which doesn't help because I seedee, dee, dee.
So that is the other type.
We argue about communicationbecause it is a constant there.
As the third, it's the elephantin the room that we always have
(18:05):
to deal with every single day,my husband and I.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (18:08):
And thank you for being vulnerable
and sharing that Because, again,we want to encourage current
hearing aid users today whetheryou were just diagnosed or just
fit today, this week or, youknow, months prior to have that
open dialogue with your spouseon hey, you know, yes, this is
(18:32):
new for both of us, but how canwe continue to maintain our
intimacy and ensure that we'recommunicating effectively?
So, Gael, you shared ahilarious story about
glow-in-the-dark lipstick andnot hearing in the dark.
So what do moments like thatsort of teach us about adapting
(18:52):
humor and closeness inrelationships?
Gael Hannan (18:55):
Just a little background on this
hearing-in-the-dark lipstick,just in case someone goes that's
a great idea.
Well, it's not a great ideabecause, back to the point, I
can't converse in the dark, I amdeaf in the dark and if you
think about it, yeah, dark, twodifferent senses.
But no, I cannot communicate inthe dark.
Not going to happen, don't eventry.
(19:17):
I might hear a noise, so butagain, back to that spontaneity.
I would love to be able tocommunicate in the dark, and
this speaks to moments ofurgency, for example and this
has happened being parentsraising a child, and in the
middle, or whenever in themiddle of the night, I get a on
(19:38):
my shoulder which means there isan issue.
It could mean I'm snoring, butusually it means there's an
issue.
Get up and I go okay, all right, but what do I have to do?
I have to turn on the light,reach over, open my.
Actually now I have to go intoanother room, get out my devices
and have that conversation,which hopefully isn't too
(19:58):
serious.
I thought it would be.
So again, it's just a yearningfor that being able to be in the
moment, right then and therewith my husband or whoever.
The glow in the dark lipstick, Ithought, wouldn't that be a
great idea?
I'd be able to see his lipsmoving.
But if you know anything aboutspeech reading, if you saw the
(20:20):
lips moving.
There's no other context.
You don't know whether myhusband's crying because
something happened or he'sscared or whatever.
So it's just to illustrate thatso many things need to be in
place for us to have thosemoments, for us to communicate,
to share a moment, and so muchof communication is in the
(20:41):
little moments.
You know one thing that we'lldo if we pass each other he's
going outside, I'm coming insidewe just let our fingers touch
as we pass each other.
I'm sure everyone does this tosome degree, or maybe they don't
, but that is our touch, is somuch of our connection and our
(21:03):
looks and our smiles, our facialexpressions.
Unfortunately, I often like I'msmiling now, but my go-to face
is this, and that's because I'vespent a lifetime trying to
understand frown, frowning, andthis can be very off-putting for
(21:24):
people, especially when hearingloss enters a relationship of
people who've been together fora while.
It's frowning, people thinkthey've done something wrong, or
it's scary.
Growing up, my mother used tosay smile, Gael, I go, I am.
I didn't know I wasn't smiling,I was just focusing on what was
being said.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (21:44):
You said a couple of minutes ago
that touch and shared lookssometimes fill in the gaps where
words can't like.
When you and your husband passeach other and grazing hands, I
mean that is language betweenthe two of you and you're
maintaining that intimacy.
Talk to us about the role ofnonverbal communication in your
marriage and how that supportsemotional intimacy.
(22:06):
That sounds like a PhD thesis.
Well, Gael, if there's anyoneto write this thesis and talk
about it, it is absolutely you,because you are a distinguished
author.
Gael Hannan (22:17):
We are so visual, people with hearing loss.
We are so visual because wedepend on all the senses, even
the sense of smell.
We use these things we all doas people, but we rely heavy on
the visual.
It is a myth that if one sensegoes, another sense gets better.
(22:40):
Now what happens is that we useit more and we are more
dependent on it and we'velearned how to use it.
So, people with hearing loss,we are visual people, always
looking, and we need to look andtake information from the faces
of the people that we'recommunicating with.
That's why, if all of a sudden,people start frowning, what did
(23:04):
I miss?
What did I miss In speechreading?
We read, not just the lips.
I mean, I don't just stare atyour lips.
Blaze, May I compliment you ona well-trimmed mustache.
Very good, that's important.
But the eyes and the bodylanguage and all of these things
are so important.
And touch, oh touch.
(23:24):
Imagine if you couldn't, if youcouldn't touch someone, if you
couldn't.
You're a new dad, you know.
Touching your son, touchingyour wife.
It is a nonverbal form ofcommunication, reassurance of
love.
I, as a person with hearing loss, things are very, very
important to me.
If I can't see you, I'm notgoing to understand you, Unless,
(23:44):
of course, I'm the phone comingstraight into my ears.
But generally speaking, whenwe're talking face-to-face
communication or livenon-technical communication, I
need to see you, I need to sortof soak in what you're telling
me and I need to interpret that,which I still may misinterpret
(24:08):
frequently If the facialexpression isn't quite with the
words or tone of voice or thatperson is not being totally
present or intimate.
So all of those things, what wesee, what we hear, what we feel
.
And then there's that when Isay what we feel, what we hear,
what we feel, and then there'sthat I say what we feel, that
(24:28):
that emotional exchange, all ofthese other things contribute to
that emotional exchange orintimacy between people.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HI (24:37):
Thank you so much for touching on
that, Gael, because we've beenfor the.
You know the first half of thisepisode talking about emotional
intimacy because unfortunately,when someone hears the word
intimacy, they just go right tothe physical aspects and that's
not correct.
There's so much more tointimacy than just that.
But I do want to dive into thevulnerability of physical
(25:01):
intimacy, and you had shared adeeply moving story about a
former partner who gentlychallenged the choice to remove
your hearing aid during physicalintimacy.
And what did that moment teachyou and how did it carry into
your marriage with Doug?
Gael Hannan (25:21):
It's one of those moments that you only realize in
hindsight the impact of thatmoment.
And I had a partner, aboyfriend, and at the time I was
in the practice of beforehaving being intimate with a
partner and making love.
(25:48):
I would take out my device and,you know, at that time my
hearing loss wasn't as severe.
I could still hear someone, butessentially I took out my mode
of hearing and my boyfriend saidwhy do you do that?
And I said Well, I'm just justvery aware of it.
I'm afraid that it'll squeakand that's embarrassing and, uh,
(26:11):
I wasn't really worried aboutit falling out.
Um, but again, it was thatstigma.
And he said I, I don't want youto do that, I want you I mean
you, you know, without goinginto too much detail to be able
to hear and participate and talk.
And which, if I don't hear aswell, how am I going to, you
(26:31):
know?
So I went, oh, okay, so Istarted wearing my hearing aid.
Years later, with my nowhusband, I told him this story
and as I was telling him thisstory, it was so beautiful, His
(26:51):
eyes filled with tears and hesaid I am so grateful to him for
that gift that he gave you tohelp you through that moment.
So it was.
It was a big thing, and so thatwas my former boyfriend's gift
to my husband by helping methrough that and becoming truly
(27:16):
allowing myself to be moreintimate and fully communicating
with my partner, with my lover,with my husband.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (27:24):
Well , Gael, thank you.
Thank you so much for being sovulnerable because you know we
my lover with my husband Well,Gael, thank you.
Thank you so much for being sovulnerable, because you know we
had connected, of course, priorto recording this episode, and
that was a story that you wantedto share with our audience.
So so, thank you for that and,following up on that, a lot of
it was.
You had talked about feelingflawed.
(27:47):
The internal question that canarise of will I still be loved
now that I'm quote, flawed?
And for people who might bestruggling with that self-worth
in their relationships, whatwould you want them to hear?
Gael Hannan (28:02):
You have hearing loss.
You may be a flawed person, butit's not because of your
hearing loss, whatever flaws youwe're all flawed.
We're all flawed right, yeah,that hearing loss is.
You didn't cause this.
Most likely, you were not thecause of this A significant
percentage of the population.
This is part of the humancondition.
(28:23):
This is the physicalmanifestation of a body not
working.
We're organic beings and weshould not feel that we are
flawed, allowing ourselves tofeel that we are lesser than or
buying into that stigma becauseit might have been drilled into
us through our society, through,maybe, families.
I hear so many horror storiesof people growing up with
(28:46):
hearing loss and their familiesjust didn't want them to mention
it, talk about it, know aboutit.
You are not flawed and if youhold yourself back from things
that you used to do or being asopen with people and conversing
with them, communicating withthem, being intimate with them,
(29:09):
you're only causing yourselfundue stress.
This isn't something I learnedovernight.
I only realized how much stigmahad been driving me that guy.
We're expecting a baby and forthe first time, my hearing loss
worried me.
Because what if I couldn't hearmy child?
And I didn't know.
(29:30):
This is what actually led meinto hearing loss advocacy.
I didn't know anyone else withhearing loss or significant
hearing loss no one in my circleso I reached out to other
people with hearing loss.
I went to a conference theCanadian Heart of Hearing
Association.
A woman sat down with me andshe had a baby in her arms who
(29:53):
clearly had thrived, even thoughhis mommy or her mommy had
hearing loss, and that waswonderful.
That was very affirming for me.
But it was also being at thatconference and I walked out of
there a different person.
I walked out of there with awoman, a profound and new,
better self-image of myself as aperson with hearing loss and
(30:16):
that's what drove me forward toeverything.
What I started doing.
And you know my baby thrived.
He's almost 30.
He's six foot seven, the bestcommunicator I know, and he
really took having a mom withhearing loss to heart and he
knows he's a really goodcommunicator.
But the stigma vanished for meat that conference, which is why
(30:40):
, meeting other people withhearing loss or listening to
podcasts with people withhearing loss and taking what you
learn from them, with what youlearn from hearing care
providers, because hearing lossaffects all aspects of our life,
we need strategies for allaspects of our life, including
intimacy, including allowingourselves to reconnect and be
(31:02):
close to people again,regardless of what role they
play in our life and it doestake some knowledge and some
work and some time.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (31:11):
And Gael, you just teed me up there
because when you talk about,even after all these years of
being married, there's stillthis quote communication
friction, but the importance offinding your tribe and leaning
into a community and leaninginto individuals who know what
(31:32):
you're going through.
You don't feel so alone.
Then Hearing loss is isolatingalready and there's a book
called the Mountain Is you and Iread that for the first time
like three weeks ago and I waslike oh my gosh, and it might be
(31:56):
because of a stigma, but we'reencouraging.
If you're tuned in right nowand you are new to wearing
hearing technology, lean intothat community.
Reach out to Gael, because it'sso important.
Gael Hannan (32:03):
Finding community.
We use all these buzzwords butI did.
I found community.
I hear so many people say theyfeel caught between the hearing
world and the deaf world and Itried to argue that I don't have
the right words.
I understand they feel thatthey don't communicate
effectively with anyone Most ofus with acquired hearing loss or
(32:26):
who still use spoken language.
The deaf community is not ourcommunity, the signing deaf
community.
We use spoken language and ourcommunity might not be as well
defined, with its own languageand with its own cultures, but
it's about being able to learnhow to communicate better and by
(32:48):
having other people meetingwith them, even however briefly.
It's affirming.
It's just a sense of theyunderstand and oh, that's
interesting that they do that.
I'll try that.
That might work for me.
Peace, knowing that you're notflawed.
That this is a condition thatthe World Health Organization
(33:09):
says that by 2050, the number ofpeople worldwide with disabling
hearing loss meaning they needtechnology or help to hear will
double.
It's over 700 million In 25years.
That's going to happen.
It's a global epidemic.
A global epidemic.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (33:26):
I don't want to go too deep here,
but I do have the question aboutfiguring it out with your
spouse, meaning theconversational glitches that
might occur.
But I'm really interested, Gael, in psychology as a whole
because at the end of the day,humans it's all psychology,
right Our brains operate, ourbodies and how we respond and
(33:49):
act, and there is definitely adifference between the mind and
the brain.
Either way, I'm interested inwhat's called the maladaptive
schemas and there's differentschemas and one of them is like
unrelenting standards,punitiveness, and there's all
different ones and I just I liketo ask questions and be curious
(34:10):
.
And it's like you know, whensomeone is diagnosed with
hearing loss later in life, ifthey already presented with a
high schema of unrelentingstandards, that might increase
to very high because now they'reused to being performance
driven, performance based.
Now a hearing impairment, theymight think, is going to stop me
(34:32):
or hinder me, which is not thecase.
So the reason I bring that up totee out this question is
figuring it out and navigatingand pivoting, even after 35
years of marriage.
You've said that there's stillfriction, like Doug walking away
and mumbling.
I feel like we're picking onDoug a lot here and I haven't
(34:53):
even met him, but I'm sure he'sa wonderful, wonderful guy and
pleasure to meet you over thispodcast, Doug.
But what are some of theeveryday glitches that you've
learned to navigate and whatadvice would you give to couples
today?
Maybe one of them is hearingimpaired, the other is not still
figuring that out.
Gael Hannan (35:13):
First of all I would like to apologize to my
husband, doug, because he's notthe only one who causes the bad
communication moments.
I also make mistakes on a dailybasis.
You know.
One of the things that tonavigate it and this is really
important is what I've learnedafter that time.
(35:34):
At that conference, I startedto understand hearing loss
better when you understandwhat's going on and how hearing
works at its best, at its mostnatural, and what makes it not
work.
If you have a commitment tounderstanding that, then you
will understand howcommunication can go wrong and
(35:57):
how it can be improved.
And even now it constantlysurprises me that it's not going
to come out quite the right way.
Douglas can't instinctivelyunderstand hearing loss, even
though he's married to mebecause he is a hearing person.
He still operates under thefact that he hears well.
But as time has gone on and hebetter understands the reality
(36:22):
of hearing loss and he's totallyimpacted by my hearing loss.
So he understands what it'slike to be the hearing spouse of
a person with hearing loss.
But when he better understandshow hearing actually works and
what causes it not to, then hecan also anticipate when things
are not going to be good, and soI really believe that to
(36:43):
navigate it, to understand theimpact of hearing loss even
before the impact, understandhearing loss, understand its
impact, understand what willhelp restore communication, and
that takes work, it just does.
And this is where the role ofthe hearing care professional I
think should be amplified.
(37:05):
I think that the hearing careprofessional in some ways needs
to offer more support in thisarea of oral rehabilitation.
Yes, yeah, and if they can't doit in office, then use
resources outside of theirclinical time, which means
(37:25):
referring people and to peerresources.
And I'm also going to say Ithink that peer resources,
consumer resources, need to besupported by the professional
hearing care community, becausewhen you have organizations like
the Hearing Loss Association ofAmerica and other countries,
(37:45):
they need to be giving qualifiedadvice, they need to be giving
trained advice, and it does takemoney.
And I'm saying this because Isee so often that consumer
groups are sort of looked downon by professional groups and
sometimes consumer groups.
Blaise Delfino, M (38:02):
Collaboration is essential because it is
absolutely a trickle down effect.
I am a hearing careprofessional and when it comes
to the you know, oralrehabilitation, you do have
tools like Lace AI Pro.
That is a tool that isavailable to consumers today.
That addresses AR, which isoral rehabilitation.
(38:26):
But hearing care professionalsshould be walking with their
patients throughout this journeyand what are the conversations
they're having at theirfollow-ups?
The unfortunate truth, I guess,is majority of hearing care
professionals aren't evenconducting real ear measurement,
(38:46):
and that's a technologicalaspect of what we do.
I can imagine less than 15% ofhearing care professionals have
a oral rehabilitation program.
And why is that important?
Because you are working withyour patient on how to
communicate in this new hearingworld.
Gael Hannan (39:03):
Hearing aids work better when they have other
things in place.
So, and when Sherry Ebers and Italk about in our book here and
Beyond these other things thatpeople with hearing loss need,
beyond this understanding we'vebeen talking about is a shift in
attitudes, you know, gettingrid of the stigma and having
(39:25):
understanding how like, forexample, when I change my goal
from hearing to communicating.
Better things change for me,but we need that and we also
need to learn how tocommunication behaviors.
I think we're not going too faroff on intimacy, because how we
communicate affects ourintimate lives and hearing care
professionals.
(39:46):
So often I've been speaking touniversity audiology programs
for 20 to 30 years, and I'vespoken at many professional
conferences, and so often,though, we hear, I hear, and
Sherry hears, we hear together.
Oh, so great to hear the clientperspective Excuse me, the
(40:08):
client perspective.
It should be underpinning ofyour service to understanding
what we need, and too much of afocus on the hearing technology.
Yes, it's the first importantstop.
Oh, wow, now I can hear better.
But everything we've talkedabout is not the only thing in
communication.
Encourage all of themanufacturers to introduce to
(40:34):
not only their client networkhearing care professionals but
also their employees tounderstand the deep dive into
what we feel and need.
Yes, your hearing aid may begreat, but this is what you need
to know and I feel so stronglyabout this.
(40:55):
I feel that just stop with thetotal focus that if all of these
new technical terms, these newhearing aid come out, it has
this, this and this and this.
What the hell does that mean tome?
I don't know.
Is it going to help me in myconversation with my husband?
Is it going to help me dealwith the anxiety I feel?
How will I know how to do this?
(41:16):
How will I find the words toexpress my emotions in an
intimate setting?
So I just really encouragehearing care professionals to
make it a point to learn that.
Reach out to us really andabsorb.
Don't assume that you know itbecause you're an audiologist or
(41:36):
hearing instrument specialist,unless you have hearing loss
yourself.
You don't know it, in spite ofeverything you've learned in the
books.
Find out and add that knowledge, add that deeper level of
understanding of your client andyou will help yourself and you
will help us more, because weneed help.
We're not helpless people, butwe need help to communicate.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (42:00):
And Gael, the importance of being
present as a hearing careprofessional when you are
working with your patient,because you shouldn't be
thinking about the next patientyou have.
When you are fully presentthere.
You're learning about thepatient, learning about their
needs, who their communicationpartners are.
(42:20):
Are they married?
What does that look like?
What are some barriers to entrythat might be affecting this
specific patient?
And, speaking of being present,you've spoken about being
present in the moment and notbluffing.
Expand on what presence lookslike in practice for someone
(42:41):
who's hard of hearing or theirpartner.
Gael Hannan (42:43):
What I'm talking about being present is that I am
not bluffing.
I am fully engaged in thatconversation, regardless of what
that conversation is, and theonly way I can be fully engaged
is that I have created orensured that I am understanding
(43:05):
and hearing.
Therefore, I need to be able tohear, see the person.
So I've reduced backgroundnoise.
There's plenty of light, takeoff your ball cap, get your hand
away from your mouth.
These are all the simple thingsthat if I don't have these in
place, I can't possibly bepresent in the conversation.
(43:26):
The other type of presencemeans I'm really fully
interested in what you're saying, which I'm not always.
So that's a different type ofbeing present.
But for me, being present meansthat I've removed those
barriers and so I am free tofully communicate.
Those barriers are there.
I'm going to be straining.
(43:47):
That doesn't mean I won't saypardon, but I have created the
best possible communication withthat person.
So with my husband, we have ahot tub and we go in the hot tub
every morning and it is verymuch our time when we can sit
and it's just us talking ratherthan moving around, shifting,
(44:10):
doing things.
You know, working, writing.
My husband isn't one for long,long conversations, and so this
is why being in a hot tub for 40minutes and it's our time and
so we, that's really precious toboth of us.
He may not use the wordprecious, but it's important to
(44:31):
him, so that we're face to face,we can hear he turns off the
whirlpool because I can't hearwell the background noise, plus
it's outside.
I like to hear the birds.
So we created that is apurpose-driven conversation,
right, and that is an intimatemoment or intimate time with my
(44:54):
husband when we are focused oneach other.
And that's another definitionof intimacy, it's focus.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. (45:02):
Absolutely , Gael.
This has been such a wonderfulconversation For our listeners
with hearing loss.
What message do you hope thatthey carry with them after
hearing your story?
Gael Hannan (45:20):
I would hope that it might be a starting point to
reflect on how you communicateand I would say you, it's a
starting point to reflect on howwe communicate.
You, that is a starting pointto reflect on how we communicate
.
You can look at your life withhearing loss and say I'm pretty
(45:40):
happy with it and I think I'mdoing all the right things.
That's great, but if not, it'sa starting point.
You have the right.
We have the right to intimacy.
We have the right toparticipate.
My byline for years was it'snot just about hearing, it's
about being heard, and that issomething that we all have the
(46:01):
right to and we can all grow.
You know we talked aboutrelationships growing and
deepening, and we can contributeto that by being more present
and being more purpose-driven.
So I hope this is a startingpoint for even if there's one
person listening or watching,that this might start a new
(46:26):
conversation in your life.
Blaise Delfino, M.S. - HIS (46:27):
Well , that's it for today's episode
of the Hearing Matters podcast.
A huge thank you to Gael Hannonfor her openness, vulnerability
and, of course, wisdom.
Intimacy is about presence,communication and mutual care
and, Gael, you reminded us that,even with hearing loss, those
things are not out of reach.
(46:48):
They just take a littleintention, and if today's
episode resonated with you,please share it with someone you
care about.
And, as always, we'll catch younext time right here on the
Hearing Matters podcast.
Until next time, hear life'sstory.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com