June 11, 2025 • 48 mins
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What does it take to make music that truly resonates? In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Jenee sits down with Boston-based producer and multi-instrumentalist Dave Brophy to talk about creative trust, the art of listening, and the quiet magic of a good vocal take.
Known for his chill presence and deeply intuitive approach, Dave shares how his “go slow to go fast” philosophy shapes every session—from mantra recordings to singer-songwriter ballads. Instead of chasing perfection, he focuses on creating a space where artists feel relaxed, expressive, and free to explore. The result? Music that feels deeply soulful and alive.
They dive into everything from the power of scratch vocals and why overthinking kills vibe, to how Dave moved from touring drummer to full-time producer. His thoughts on supporting “difficult” artists, working across genres, and why smiling through the mic actually works are gold for musicians and creatives alike.
Whether you’re in the studio, recording in your home, or dreaming up your next project, this episode is a reminder that the best art often comes from ease, presence, and play.
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CREDITS:
Introduction script: Jessica Tardy
Introduction mix and master: Ed Arnold
Theme Song: "Heart Light" by Jenee Halstead and Dave Brophy
Heart Light Media, LLC - Disclaimer
This podcast is presented solely for entertainment and education purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. We shall in no event be held liable to any party for any reason arising directly or indirectly for the use or interpretation of the information presented in this audio. Copyright 2024, Heart Light Media, LLC - All rights reserved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenee (00:06):
Welcome to the Heartlight Sessions, a podcast about light
working your way through darktimes.
I'm Janae Halstead.
I'm a singer-songwriter,holistic vocal coach, intuitive
guide and plant medicinefacilitator.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm on a lifelong healingjourney and along the way, I
(00:28):
want to share the ideas andteachings that rock my world.
Every week on HeartlightSessions, I call in artists,
healers and thinkers to explorewhat's helped them live and
thrive from a heart-centeredplace, because the heart, it's
where the best things happen.
If you've ever wondered how tounlock your biggest
(00:51):
breakthroughs or how to comeback from that stuff that tried
to kill you, you know the stuffI'm talking about, the stuff
that's supposed to make youstronger.
Or if you've ever wondered howto just do you straight from the
heart, you're in the rightplace.
So join me, won't you?
Let's turn on that heart light.
Hello.
Dave (01:19):
Hey, how are you?
Jenee (01:20):
Good, how are you?
Dave (01:21):
I'm doing great.
Great to see you.
Jenee (01:22):
Great to see you.
I'm so excited.
Today I have my producer, DaveBrophy.
He's a Boston-based producer,musician, songwriter, and main
instruments are Drums is themain thing, drums is the main
thing, and then piano.
Dave (01:43):
Well, I only ever claim to be a drummer, okay.
Jenee (01:46):
So yeah, I just was thinking this week about.
I was like who do I want tointerview and I want to have a
conversation about highcreativity and art and music.
And I was like, who have I notinterviewed?
It's just odd that like I'veworked with you so much and I've
never talked to you reallyabout your own creative process
(02:09):
and how you work in the studio.
And I just absolutely adoreworking with you and I'm always
like judging to my friends abouthow you're the best to work
with.
And it's because you're so chilland you're so down for whatever
(02:32):
and you're so humble and I'mnot, and that's not like you
know, but like that combination,and then just being brilliant
musically at what you do andhaving a really broad language,
You're like a deadly combination.
Dave (02:51):
Well, I really, really appreciate you saying that,
because it really is a goal ofmine always to, when I work with
someone, to just make surethey're having the most relaxed,
most expressive experience thatthey can have, you know, and
just trying to like set up anenvironment where you know, like
(03:12):
when I'm working with you, Ijust want you to feel like you
can come up with any idea youwant and we'll pursue it.
There's no, you know, I neverwant to put limitations or
constraints on what people feellike they can explore when we're
trying to make somethingtogether.
Jenee (03:27):
So it's really nice to hear you say that yeah, I love.
I mean, I'm like I could bringlike a pile of garbage to you
and you're like, yeah, that'sgreat, that's great, we can work
with that.
Dave (03:38):
You never have brought a pile of garbage to me.
It's always.
There's always good ideas inthere.
It's so funny because I meanand it does kind of speak to me
it's always, there's always goodideas in there.
Jenee (03:46):
Yeah, for sure it's so funny because I mean, and it
does kind of speak to likeactually the, the, sometimes the
simplest ideas are the best,for sure, you know.
And so just bringing even likeramadasa, I was like that was
the simplest, silliest set ofmelodies but there's something
so beautiful about it when it'ssimple.
Dave (04:07):
It's just like there's.
It was.
It just came out so beautifullyand and sometimes the simplest
things are the most accessible,you know, and the most
intriguing I mean in terms ofthe approach to trying to make
(04:48):
sessions feel free and creativeand expressive is, I think a big
part of it is trying to not gointo.
I feel like just being open tofollowing where ideas lead you
and always being open toexploring ideas, like there's no
, there's no bad ideas, thereare no stupid ideas, there's no.
You know, I feel like a lot oftimes, um, you can shut down
avenues by not just exploringeverything that comes up, you
know, because you never know.
(05:09):
I always say, when I'm workingwith people, like I don't know
what the answer is.
You know, I'm not here to giveanswers, I'm here to facilitate
exploring ideas, you know, and Icould come up with something,
but that's not going to be thesame as if we come up with
something together or check outwhat you want to check out on an
idea or whatever.
But yeah, I think being openand just reacting is a big part
(05:32):
of it.
Their most effectiveperformances have been when they
just go into a scene and theyjust listen and they're just
open to going where it takesthem, as opposed to walking into
a scene or a session with apreset idea of how you want the
(05:53):
day to go.
You know you have all thesetools at your disposal, but I
think the main thing first isjust sit down and talk to each
other and listen to each otherand say, okay, I think this is
what you're trying to do.
Let's, let's start working inthis direction and see what
happens and knowing you canalways backtrack and start over
and, you know, just exploredifferent ideas.
But I think that's a good partof it.
Jenee (06:14):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting too because,you know, songwriters are such
characters and you know we'reoften like terribly insecure and
insecure about our musicianshipand I don't know I mean it's
just artists in general or canbe.
So you know, and yeah, I'vebeen in studios before where,
(06:38):
like I felt that there was anagenda or just a lack of
flexibility in that way, and andthat's fine, you know, that's
totally okay.
But for me, when I'm workingwith you, I feel completely
(07:00):
empowered, completely empowered.
You know.
Yeah, even even in times where,like I'm like okay, I'm feeling
really insecure about Iremember one day I had like
really bad brain fog.
I came into the studio and Ihadn't had any coffee yet and
you were like why don't you playthe, the piano part on this?
And my brain like exploded.
(07:21):
I was like I can't do my God, Ican't even like think straight
right now.
And it wasn't even like youjust like stepped up and you
were like you know it's likeokay, well, for one, we don't
really have time to waste, andfor two, like you know, wasn't
like a conversation, you justtook over, you know.
Dave (07:40):
Well, and I feel like you're talking about sometimes
walking into sessions and haveit feel like there's an agenda.
I feel like a lot of times thatagenda can be a time constraint
and can be okay.
We have to be efficient, wehave to get this done For sure,
(08:06):
finished.
But I feel like, more likelythan not, in those situations
when, at the end of the day, itends up taking up more time
trying to do something fast,because a week later, invariably
, the artist calls and says, hey, I don't really love that
version, the tempo is too fastor the key is wrong, or that you
know, and, yes, you got it donein time, but was it the right
thing?
I would rather, I would ratherbe inefficient in, to a certain
(08:26):
extent, in the studio andexplore things and make sure
okay, is this key right?
Is this comfortable?
Are we cool with this idea?
If we're not cool, don't worryabout it, let's go into
something else, or let's let'stry it in a different way, you
know, because I would rather, atthe end of the day, have
something that we're going tokeep, as opposed to five things
that we may or may not keep orthat I then have to convince an
artist exactly keeping you knowbecause it's I just want
(08:49):
everyone to feel like the thingyou leave with is absolutely the
right thing, and you're totallypsyched about it and and you're
armed with the knowledge thatif in a week you don't like it,
we can do it again.
You know, like it's, it's not abig deal, we won't stop until we
get it right.
Jenee (09:05):
Basically, you know I mean that's huge.
You know I I know so manyartists that have like well,
especially in their early albums, you know you don't really have
self kind of self-awareness oryou don't have the confidence.
And then you go in and maybeyou're making an album like
maybe you're making an album innashville with a bunch of studio
guys and maybe you're making analbum like maybe you're making
an album in Nashville with abunch of studio guys and like
(09:27):
you're just completely likenothing is yours, you don't have
artistic autonomy, and then youdon't want to put anything out
because you like get it back andthen you hate it.
And you know, I feel, I feelgrateful in that way, like
moving slow to get ahead.
You know.
Dave (09:43):
Yeah, exactly, and it's like we get to move slow.
But I think we are moreefficient in the long run
because we move slow and becauseit gets it gets the artist into
a mental state where they're nolonger worrying about whether
or not we're on the same team,and that eats up a lot of energy
sometimes.
So it, by taking that barrierdown and freeing up that energy,
(10:06):
you also become more efficientin your decision making as the
artist, because you know thatI'm not going to do anything
that goes against what you'reasking me to do, you know.
So it ends up being, I think, afaster way of doing things in
the long run and people are moresatisfied by it, I think.
Jenee (10:31):
Yeah, how do you see studios kind of changing?
And I think this is part of aninteresting conversation about,
you know, like being autonomousand being able to own your own
space, have your own space andwork you know, work as a
producer, producer, engineer andhaving all that skill set
because it just it, it allowsfor a breadth of um you know,
(10:51):
time and creativity to happenthat maybe wouldn't happen if
you're renting space or totally,totally.
Dave (10:58):
I mean, yeah, and I feel so lucky to um have wound up in
a space that functions well, asa studio that I own, that I can
be in charge of, because it doestake that that stress out of
the equation of when you'reworking on a project and and
(11:19):
maybe you start off in the wrongdirection, you have to
backtrack and make somedifferent decisions.
You're not looking at the clockand saying, well, okay, okay,
well, that that two hours costsus 300 bucks or whatever.
You know like, you're notticking away.
Each minute isn't costing you aton of money.
Um, because you have thefreedom of owning the space that
you're working in, and I thinkthat's so many people are doing
(11:39):
that now just for that reason.
You know, I think um, studiosare super expensive, but there
is, it's just a differentmentality.
I I, if I had my way, I wouldlove to be in someone else's
studio with someone else beingthe engineer and and I get to
just produce.
Because there is, it is a lot ofuh, um, mental strain to wear
(12:03):
the hat of the engineer and beplaying instruments on things
and be producing, becausesomething, uh, something is lost
when you're doing that manythings and if you can set it up
where someone else isengineering and you're just
producing, it just frees upenergy and brain space.
You know to totally payattention to different aspects
(12:25):
of things, so it comes at a cost, but it is easier and and a lot
more uh, affordable, obviously.
But.
But when everything lines upright and um, and you know
budgets align and and it feelslike you're prepared for a
record and you can go into astudio space, that that is kind
(12:47):
of an ideal setup.
But but when you're justexploring ideas and trying to be
really, uh, flexible, having aspace of your own to work in
this is really beneficial.
At least I have found it.
It works really well yeah, yeah.
I think that really is the keyis having you know, having the
band prepared, yeah, being armed, and before you're setting foot
(13:10):
in a space like that, you haveto have, essentially, made all
your decisions beforehand, youknow so that then it's just a
matter of physically doing thethings, setting up the room and
(13:33):
getting the sounds that you want, but you're not trying new
things necessarily in the studio, because that could eat up a
lot of time and that representsa lot of money.
So it's just two differentapproaches.
You know two differentapproaches to the process and I
don't think either is better orworse.
It's just.
It's just how.
What is your schedule allow?
(13:55):
What does your budget allow?
What kind of music are youtrying to make is?
Are we tracking it all live,with six or seven people playing
at the same time, or is it justyou and I in a room figuring
stuff out and building layersand then having people come by
and add things?
You know.
So it's just different ways ofcreating, you know.
Jenee (14:13):
Yeah, it's really fun watching video clips of like you
and Will Daly being in thestudio and played with each
other for years and played witheach other for years and you
know he's so profound in hismusicianship and has a real like
presence and kind of way thathe goes about his thing.
(14:35):
His thing is like solid youknow, so being able to step into
a space like that, and just youknow.
Dave (14:42):
Yeah, and that was an interesting experience because
it was a combination of the twothings we're talking about, in
that we had the luxury of ofbeing at q division for an
extended stay.
Um and he and I had worked outa lot of that material for the
record just the two of us, butwithout having worked out bass
(15:05):
parts or other guitar partsnecessarily.
We just had the basic idea ofeverything, and so we hired the
guys we wanted to hire, and thenevery day we wouldn't let them
hear the songs until the day wewere recording the song, so we
would play them the demo.
That was usually just me andWill on the demo.
We'd listen to the songtogether and then we'd just go
out and start playing it.
Because in that instance theresult was not pre preordained.
(15:31):
We didn't know exactly what wewanted.
We just knew that it was goingto be a cool version of the song
, you know.
So part of that was being opento whatever happened and not
being too nitpicky about oh, Iwant the bass part to be this,
so I want the base.
You know things like that.
So, uh, being open um to theresult was a big part of that
process and I think it turnedout great and it was such a good
(15:53):
energy and such a such a neatprocess.
Jenee (15:55):
When did you?
Oh, go ahead, Were you going to?
Dave (15:58):
say I was going to say it felt so luxurious too.
Jenee (16:00):
Yeah, totally it was.
Dave (16:01):
I forget what it was 10 days or something like that, so
it was great.
Jenee (16:05):
I know I really enjoyed watching the footage.
I was like, oh, this looks sofun.
Dave (16:09):
So much fun.
Jenee (16:12):
When did you decide that you wanted to produce music?
Dave (16:18):
It was actually, you know, I had always messed around with
recording when I was younger,like you know, in college, and I
did a lot of recording in highschool with bands and stuff, um,
and then over the years, youknow, had like an eight track
recorder that I messed aroundwith a lot and and then garage
(16:39):
band when it came out, did abunch of stuff on garage band
just kind of by myself, justtrying to learn about things.
And then when I moved to bostonI started doing getting a lot
more studio work as a drummerand the first thing I ever
really produced or got creditedfor producing was a Will Daly
(17:00):
record called National Throat.
Jenee (17:01):
Oh wow and um yeah.
Dave (17:01):
And yeah and thanks and uh , yeah it it did really well for
an independent record and won acouple like album of the year
awards and stuff like that andso it was really nice to have
produced that um, because it ledto a lot more work with other
bands, um, so, um, yeah, thatwas kind of the beginning of it
(17:25):
and it was more the experienceof spending so much time in
studios as a drummer andwatching producers and how they
went about things and and beingreally interested in the
technical side of things andmicrophones and preamps and you
know different drum setups andthings like that Um, it always
really intrigued me.
And then also just the spendinga couple of decades only being
(17:47):
a drummer like a liveperformance drummer, performance
drummer um, it started to wearon me in terms of just spending
that much time away from homeand traveling so much and and
carrying a drum set from placeto place, you know, packing up a
drum set every night and justliving the kind of late night
lifestyle and being on the roada lot.
that started to, uh, appeal tome less and less.
(18:07):
And then the notion of like, oh, maybe I could set up my life
where I do that a little bit,but I mostly work in studios and
mostly work on records.
So, thankfully, so far I'vebeen able to do that, and so
that was really one of themotivating factors to have.
Just, I don't love being on theroad all the time, so if I
could figure out a way to avoidthat, that'd be great, and I
(18:28):
also love making records.
So, yeah, I think it was about2015 was probably when I really
started producing mostly andkind of weaning myself out of
playing live as much.
But yeah, it's been.
So it's been pretty, prettybusy since then, pretty busy
since then.
(18:49):
And yeah, I'm just alwaystrying to hone the craft and
learn, you know, as much as Ican about mixing and producing
and, all you know, every aspectof it is really intriguing to me
.
So I'm just always trying topractice it and get better at it
.
Jenee (19:03):
Yeah, were you self-taught initially in just
some of the basic engineering,or were you taking?
Were you taking courses or no,complete, totally self-taught.
Dave (19:14):
And then, um uh, I mean I went to one uh mixing camp in
france I remember that was likeright when we.
It was much later on, yeah, itwas much later on.
It was like I had kind of, youknow, learned, learned from
friends and taught myself andagain just being in studios a
lot you get to pick people'sbrains and get to.
(19:36):
You know, luckily I have a lotof good engineer friends and
anytime something goes wrong I'mcalling, you know, pat DeCenzo,
or somebody and be like.
Hey man, so this thing justhappened in Pro Tools.
What do I do?
And when you're under pressurelike that, you learn pretty fast
.
You know you have people in theroom that are that think you
know what you're doing, right,right you're like I'll be right
(19:56):
back I know I'll be right back.
You're in the bathroom making acall totally, um, but no, mostly
self-taught and and taughtthrough friends.
You know, didn't have any anyformal uh engineering training.
You know, um, i't have any anyformal engineering training.
You know, I had gone to schoolfor music, gone to undergrad for
(20:17):
music and grad school for music, but not for production, just
for performance.
Jenee (20:21):
Yeah, and how?
Because we started my albumlike right when you got back
from France, I think yeah, andhow much of that, how helpful
was that it was really helpful.
Dave (20:35):
And I think actually I went to France right after we
tracked your record, I think,because I brought some of your
sessions to that thing and sosome of the tracks were used
over the course of the class,you know, to mess with drum
sounds and stuff like that.
It was really helpful.
(20:55):
I mean, it was really.
It was with a guy named ChadBlake, who's one of my favorite
mixing engineers, and it wasjust a beautiful experience to
have a week of waking up everymorning, having breakfast with a
group of people all going intothe studio and just spending the
entire day and night in thestudio listening to mixes,
talking about mixes, working onmixes, and having this guy, chad
(21:19):
Blake, who is, you know, one ofthe top mixing engineers in the
world and he's such a humble,sweet, open guy, sweet open guy,
um and so, uh, you could, youcould imagine someone like him,
who has such a unique process,being very secretive about how
he does what he does, and he'snot at all.
(21:40):
He's completely open about it,he's totally transparent with
what he's doing and he, he, hisphilosophy is I can tell you
every single thing I'm doing ona mix, and you're still going to
do it differently, like theresult will still be different
than if I did it, versus himdoing it.
You know, and it's true, it'sjust you can't replace the
personal aspect of that, andthat's one of the things about
(22:01):
mixing I like too.
It's like you can say a mix isgood or bad, if you want, but
the mix is an expression of theperson that's doing the mix or
or where they were mentally thatday, you know.
So it's, it's a cool uhdocument kind of of how that
person was feeling that day orwhat they were hearing.
And and it is a it's a strangeart too, because I'll I'll work
(22:22):
on mixes and think that itsounds really good and then I'll
go back and listen the next dayand think what, the what?
This is terrible, you know, ormy god, it's great, you know
it's just, it's a, it's a mentalgame.
You know, it's very strange.
It's unlike any other part ofmusic.
Jenee (22:36):
I feel like yeah I've heard that from a lot of
producers and it's interestingtoo, because a lot of it has to
do with like negative space aswell, like what's not coming
through.
Dave (22:48):
It does it does, and it's a strange, um, it's a strange
art form in that music,essentially, is meant to be a
fleeting thing.
You know, you, you, you hear itwhen it's being created or when
it's coming at you and itwashes over you and it's good
and it's gone.
It's meant to you experience itonce and so to then repeat it
(23:10):
over and over and hyperscrutinize a performance.
There's something unnaturalabout that, really,
fundamentally, and so, as aresult, you end up getting very
nitpicky about some very strangethings that you know, I can
listen to a song a hundred timeswhen I'm working on a mix and
I'll play it for you and you'llbe like, yeah, that sounds great
, like none of the nuance willmatter on one listen you know
(23:31):
and it's part of.
there's an interesting thing youcan do, like if you think of a
Motown song, think of a classicsong that everybody knows, you
know post Mr Postman, orsomething like that, my girl.
Yeah, and you're, when you thinkabout it right now, you think
of this majestic, beautifullyrecorded, rich sounding thing.
(23:51):
But then if you sit down, youknow, at a computer or something
, and you really scrutinizewhat's going on, you think man,
those hand claps and thattambourine are so loud and
there's like no low end and thebass and that is that vocal, a
little bit out of tune, like youcan.
Even these classic, beautifullyrecorded things, if you get
into the right mindset, you canbe really critical of them and
(24:12):
you wouldn't necessarily makethem better by mixing them again
.
It's just this weird mentalthing that happens when you're
asked to give an opinion aboutsomething.
You're going to come up with anopinion about it, whether it's
good or bad.
Yeah, totally, it's a tricky,tricky thing to, I don't know,
not to master, but just to putyourself through, you know.
Jenee (24:32):
It's a weird experience.
It's very subjective.
And I think there is somethingabout like it's interesting
because there's definitely likethe aesthetics and what you know
and something being good andall of these intangibles you
know good and these, all ofthese intangibles you know.
Dave (24:55):
but it can be like small tweaks that make or break a song
.
You know, I know it's reallyinteresting and it's, it's, yeah
, it's, uh.
It's a difficult thing not tobecome like super neurotic about
because you at some point youhave to say this is totally fine
you know, yeah, I mean there'sa great story about which a lot
of people know now, but aboutMichael Jackson mixing I think
it was beat it and he's with theengineer Bruce, with Dean who
(25:18):
tracked all that stuff, and theyhad worked on something like 96
mixes of the song and QuincyJones came into the studio and
they played him the 96 mix.
They said this is this, is it?
So check it out.
And he listens to it and hesays, okay, play me mix number
two.
And they play a mix number twoand he goes that's the one and
(25:39):
that's the one that came out.
You know, it's like you can getreally nitpicky and at the end
of the day it doesn't reallymake that big of a difference
with a lot of the decisions youmake it's.
Jenee (25:47):
It's similar also to scratch vocals, like, or, you
know, recording and like goingback and being like, oh my god,
I actually like the scratchvocals.
They're the best because thepressure, the pressure isn't
there, you know exactly, yeah,and and it's.
Dave (26:03):
It's really interesting, yeah, especially with the vocal
thing, because you can thinkthere is a natural uh emotion
that comes out when you'resinging and not thinking about
it, and then think there is anatural uh emotion that comes
out when you're singing and notthinking about it, and then
there's kind of a false emotionthat can come out when you're
thinking about oh, I know whatthis is supposed to be yeah, and
you're going into it with kindof a preset idea of how to react
to something or how to emotesomething, and sometimes it
(26:25):
doesn't work, as well as whenyou're not thinking about it.
Jenee (26:27):
Yeah, or you're hyper-concerned about technique,
or you're hyper-concerned aboutvowel placement, or, you know,
as singers, it's just like it'scrazy and I love working with
you as a singer.
You know, it was funny becauseJess, my friend Jess, is
starting to work with you.
And she, you know, I think shehad one session or I don't know
(26:52):
how many sessions, but shetexted me and she was like like
that was the best vocal sessionI've ever had.
Did she sing?
Dave (27:00):
She did yeah.
Jenee (27:01):
Yeah, she was like that was hands down, Like and she's
worked a ton in Nashville andlike she's made a lot of albums
and that's really sweet you know, I mean I.
Dave (27:11):
The only thing I can say about tracking vocals that I
have found to be helpful forsingers is, I think, um, with a
lot of producers or engineers,there's a tendency to have a
person do one or two takes of asong and then immediately start
giving notes yeah.
Hey, okay.
So on the first line, let's dothis, and maybe on the second
(27:32):
line we get, and then it alwaysseems to me that the singers
just kind of shut down a littlebit or it becomes too many
things to keep track of, andit's, it's just not then then
they're doing a different job.
Suddenly they're fulfilling achecklist that you've given them
.
They're not singing the song.
I tend to like to let someonesing full passes four or five
(27:53):
times.
Let them, you know, becausegenerally singers will make the
corrections they're supposed tomake if you just let them go
because they know what they'redoing, but I think, sing it,
sing it four or five times, comeout, listen to a couple takes,
see how it's translated.
Okay, go on and do a couple moreand you, I feel like that's
generally, you get what you need, and people tend to correct
(28:13):
their own, not mistakes, but thevariations that may or may not
work.
They tend to correct thosethemselves without you having to
.
You know, sometimes you have tomake notes and say, okay,
there's this one thing that Ithink would be better this way.
Great, let's get that, you know.
But in terms of overall, a fullperformance, I think letting
(28:33):
people guide themselves is a bigpart of it, you know, and not,
um, not stressing them out witha bunch of notes all at once.
Jenee (28:42):
Yeah, and I love you know , like you're saying, it's
sometimes it takes four or fivetimes before you're even like
warmed up.
Even if you've been singing,even if you've been singing now
it's like a new song or a newtake and you have to get into
the feel of it.
You know, and then it's like,okay, if the approach isn't
(29:03):
working, let's like let's stepback, maybe we can.
Dave (29:06):
You know we can approach this differently, but yeah, and
I think you at least want to getto the point where you're not
thinking about it actively asmuch.
When you're doing it, you know,the first couple takes.
You're always.
You're in front of a new mic,you're getting your headphones
set, you're, you feel weirdabout it because you can hear
yourself so well through theheadphone.
You know, and it takes a couplepasses to get become a little
(29:27):
bit mindless about it, which Ithink is the sweet spot of you
kind of forget that you'retracking, you're just listening
to the music I mean I have Iremember on you, on your, record
.
We ended up using a lot of theearly vocals.
Yeah, from early takes andtakes of you laying down on the
ground in my old place, and youknow just like things that were
so casual.
(29:48):
But there was something aboutthose performances generally
that was just so heartfelt andhad so much nuance to them.
You know just it was.
It was such a nice, such a funprocess.
Jenee (30:00):
Yeah, it's like the over singing is a big one for me, and
For everybody.
Yeah, yeah and overthinking.
And it's interesting with themantra album because it was so
different, like because you haveto be really careful about the
(30:23):
vowels, like you know the vowel,especially in sanskrit music,
um, or you know prayer, thevowel is the sacred um, you know
it.
It carries the sacred vibrationof the sound.
Yeah, yeah, yeah interesting andyou get, you get into it and
(30:45):
you're like you have to be socareful with, like your
consonants and your breath andlike how you're delivering, and
so it was like, wow, that wasjust a huge learning curve in
and of itself.
In and of itself.
Dave (31:03):
And that's an interesting setup too for a vocalist,
because in that scenario it isyour voice but you're not being
asked to be yourself necessarily.
I'm not saying, okay, how wouldyou say this line?
It's like you have a criteriathat you have to fulfill but
(31:24):
then also impart a little bit ofyourself at the same time.
So it was definitely aninteresting challenge.
I remember, on a couple ofthose takes, getting really good
takes and thinking, oh, that'sthe one.
And then you come out andlisten and say, oh wait, that
one vowel is not, that's not theright oh sound or you know, and
things that would be lost on me, not knowing intricacies of the
mantras.
So it was really great that youhad that knowledge.
But there were quite a fewreally great takes that we just
(31:47):
didn't use because it'd just bea subtle thing, you know.
Jenee (31:50):
Yeah, the pronunciation is, and then the meaning is off
and then it doesn't hold thevibrational code, it's so weird,
but head explodes but, it wasreally fun, like and then to be
able to be in your heart,because that's the other thing
(32:11):
is, like with mantra you want tobe able to actually express
this vibrational music, likethrough your heart, to be
heart-centered yeah and I lovelike.
A lot of times you'd be like,okay, now smile through this
phrase which is you know likeand that's a great.
Dave (32:31):
I love that trick, by the way yeah, it's a great trick it
works across the board.
It always like when people aresaying if someone sings a little
bit flat or someone's notsinging bright enough, it's like
you can you really can hearthat you can really hear when
someone's frowning or someone'ssmiling Totally.
It's an interesting thing, yeah, and just getting people like
(32:53):
in the mask, you know, orwhatever you want to call it.
Jenee (32:54):
But yeah, yeah, it was, it was super fun.
I definitely want to, you know,make another singer songwriter
album, but I'm like really onthis kick of like, wow, I love
the challenge of it.
Dave (33:09):
Oh, it's so much fun, yeah , and, and that that record was
so much fun to make.
I mean, we had fun, it was,yeah, it was just a great time
it was.
It was great, it was so relaxedand so creative and so yeah
yeah, it just felt great.
It was really a nice way tospend a bunch of days, you know
yeah, and it's I love.
Jenee (33:24):
What I love about that music is it doesn't it's not
like, okay, it's rock and it hasto have like this kind of
foundation it can be likewhatever it can be, whatever
yeah, anything you know totally,totally yeah, so we were, we
were pulling out all theinstruments and exploring.
Dave (33:43):
I love yeah.
Jenee (33:44):
Yeah, really fun.
So when you're, when you'reworking, do you have like a
specific set of?
I know you're saying you kindof want to meet people where
they're at you know, really beopen?
Do you have a mindset or aphilosophy or a way that you go
(34:08):
about working with quote unquotedifficult artists?
Dave (34:13):
I think you know it's like there can be artists that are
difficult to work with, I guess,but I think what it really is
is it's not so much that peopleare difficult.
A lot of times it's that peoplehave things that they want to
hear, but they might not havethe vocabulary to express
exactly what it is they'relooking for.
(34:34):
Or or they know, when they hearsomething that they don't like
it, but they're not sure what itis they don't like about it.
Or the opposite they reallylike something but they're not
sure how to express what it isthey like about it.
The opposite they really likesomething but they're not sure
how to express what it is theylike about it.
Um, so a lot of it, a lot of thetime, when things become, um,
(34:55):
like need extra effort or becomea little bit harder to uh, get
around, a lot of the time whatit ends up being is just trying
to decode what somebody istrying to say or what they're
feeling, or a lot of it is justtranslating people's feelings
into okay, what do they mean bythat?
Yeah, yeah, sometimes it's, youknow, if people feel like
(35:19):
things are getting beyond wherethey want it to be, a lot of
times, what I'll end up doing isum, I mean, we had had this
happen with a record recently,and I feel like a lot of times
when things aren't going well, Ijust start muting things in a
section you know, it's like okay, so if there's guitar, bass,
drums, piano, vocals, I'll justtake everything away, Like I
(35:41):
usually.
start with the drums, let's justmute all the drums, get rid of
everything that I did.
you know like, let's see whatthat does, because a lot of
times things get too congestedor things get pulled in a
certain way or um yeah, but Ifeel like a lot of times things,
some problems, can be solved byjust opening up the session,
mute half the things and see.
(36:02):
See if, fundamentally, thetrack is still good and maybe
it's just that it needs somebreathing room.
Maybe it's just, maybe there'stoo many things going on, maybe
the message is getting lostbecause I got overexcited about
oh, let's do this cool thing andthis other cool thing, you know
sometimes you can get carriedaway with that.
Um, but I think at the end ofthe day, it's not.
It's not about people beingdifficult or easy to work with,
(36:28):
it's not.
It's not about people beingdifficult or easy to work with.
It's about just trying to makepeople happy, and sometimes that
takes more work than othertimes.
You know, it's just,everybody's feelings are valid
when, especially when it's abouttheir music and the result of
their music.
You know, and and I always sayto people like we're not, the
record's not done until you'reso happy with it.
You know, like that's that's myonly goal is to.
(36:49):
It has very little to do with meor what I want it to sound like
, because I could make, I couldmake your record sound exactly
how I think it should be, andyou might be uncomfortable with
it, or you might say, yeah,that's not really the vibe I
wanted and so it has reallynothing to do with me.
No-transcript.
(37:27):
Plenty of records where, when Ilistened to him, I think this
doesn't sound like anything Iwould have made.
But I really enjoy it, you know, because it's it's making
decisions that, um, other peopleum, wanted to hear, and that's
that's great.
That's part of the job too as aproducer.
It's not all about my taste ormy putting my fingerprint on
(37:49):
something.
A lot of times it's just aboutfacilitating what people are
hearing, you know so yeah, andand I do think there's something
to be said about stretching anartist.
Jenee (37:59):
You know, like when I first started working with you,
I, I, I wanted to work with youbecause I love the work you did
and and it was so like edgy andneo soul and like I mean you
make all sorts of stuff, butlike I was really attracted to
that and then, like the firstsong that we worked on, you know
(38:20):
, the crying game and it comesback and the you know it's like
double vocals and all this stuffand I'm like what?
yeah and then.
But really like there issomething I think as an artist,
if you're gonna hire a producerand you are trying to go first,
(38:41):
you know, I wanted to level upmy sound yeah I wanted you know,
and so it was like yeah, likeyou definitely made some
concessions for me and like sureI don't know how many times
went back to the mix.
But um, which don't do that.
People don't do that to yourproducer, but really like it was
(39:01):
a super cool sound.
it's just like I had to attunemy ears to a different you know,
to a completely different wayof coming from, like the folk
world, and then you know yeah,yeah, and it's interesting
because that that could havegone either way.
Dave (39:20):
I could have sent you that crying game rough idea and you
could have been like no, this isnot at all what I want to do.
We got to do something, youknow, and that would have been
fine.
No, this is not at all what Iwant to do.
We got to do something, youknow, and that would have been
fine.
We would have done somethingelse, you know, or we would have
done a different version of thecrying game.
You know that that would havebeen fine, you know.
Yeah, um, but yeah, it's justinteresting because it is a
conversation, it is a back andforth and and the process always
has to start somewhere, and itgenerally starts with me putting
(39:43):
together a rough idea forsomebody and saying, hey, this
is what I'm thinking, what doyou think, how do, and then, and
then it just goes from therebecause you, you have to have a
place to start, you know.
Jenee (39:52):
Yeah.
Dave (39:52):
Um, but the crying game.
That just made me think.
I just had a flashback todriving around Marguerite, nova
Scotia and the.
The eighties version of thecrying game came on the radio
and I remember writing in myphone a note to myself cover
this song for Janae.
Because, it was before we hadstarted working on your record.
No way, yeah, I was like, ohGod, it's so cool.
(40:14):
I just had a flashback to that.
Jenee (40:16):
That's so funny.
It was the perfect song.
Dave (40:19):
Oh, I love that song so much.
It's just so, and your versionof it is the best.
And your version of it is thebest.
It's good.
Jenee (40:25):
It is really good and it's like really it gets a lot
of plays in Russia.
Like we're famous in Russia.
I'm like they love me in Moscow.
Amazing, I had this like guyreach out and he's like it was
so weird, it was like brokenEnglish, and he's like this is
the best version ever and I waslike where's this from?
(40:46):
And then it had gotten like5,000 Shazams in one day and I
guess this well-known Russianradio host found it and played
it.
Oh my gosh, amazing.
I love that.
You know this is so fun that itresonated with people.
I was like, yeah, no, totally,it's amazing, it's amazing.
I it's like, yeah, no, totallyit's amazing.
Dave (41:05):
It's amazing and it's the and whether it's 5 000 shazams
in a day or one shazam in a day,it's like the fact that someone
heard it and was intriguedenough to bother yeah to shazam
it or to you know it's likethat's, that's the power of, of,
of music and the wholecommunicative aspect of it.
Is you you're it's out of yourcontrol who loves it or hates it
?
You know, and you're justputting it.
Is you you're it's out of yourcontrol who loves it or hates it
(41:27):
?
You know, and you're justputting it out, and you can be
really pleasantly surprised bywho knew russian people were
gonna love a cover of the cryinggame.
But I'll take it whateverwhatever it is absolutely
positive or negative?
Jenee (41:41):
it's a reaction so it's good I definitely want to do a
covers album with you.
Dave (41:46):
I'm like that's next on the docket let's do it like
let's do it we could startdreaming into the songs
absolutely that'd be so much funit's gonna be amazing I'll get
started today.
Let's all right, I'll send yousome rough spice tonight.
Jenee (42:02):
I love it, I love it so I'm so glad I got to talk to you
.
I feel like I could talk to youfor hours about the creative
process.
Dave (42:10):
It's so much fun, I hope.
I hope I'm answering yourquestions in a sensical way, but
so fun, yeah, If.
Jenee (42:17):
What if you were talking to like a new producer?
Dave (42:23):
yeah.
Jenee (42:24):
What advice would you give to them?
Someone, someone young, maybethey just got out of like school
or they've got like a fewalbums under their belt well, I
would say, um, it's tough toknow.
Dave (42:36):
I guess it would depend what what kind of music they
were trying to make.
If they're, if they'reproducing their own music, if
they're producing music forother people, let's say they're
producing music for other peopleyeah, well, I think I think
even part of producing music forother people is to start by
producing for yourself.
(42:56):
Like have, have a folder oftracks that you've made for
nobody.
You know, like I have hundredsof songs that are just
instrumentals, that might havelike a rough vocal of me singing
an idea, but but it gives you,it gives you practice building,
uh, this kind of soundscapes andand working on song forms and
(43:19):
things like that.
And most of the things thatI've written as instrumentals
will never get used for anything, but elements of those tracks
will get used in the future.
Jenee (43:27):
Yeah.
Dave (43:28):
Um, and, and it's also nice when you're going into a
session with an artist to havesome instrumentals at the ready,
because you never know youcould, you know you could, uh,
work on a song and now it's justnot working.
And you, you know I've had in alot of sessions I'll say, well,
(43:51):
hey, check this out.
And I'll just play a rough ideaand be like, oh whoa, what's
that?
And then, all of a sudden,you're co-writing a track with
somebody or you're, you know, Imean, I'll be your man and
heartlight is a good idea, Likethat track.
That was just an instrumentaltrack that I put together and
you had those lyrics writtendown.
Jenee (44:03):
That's the podcast intro.
Dave (44:05):
That's there you go.
So yeah, that that instrumentalwas just.
That is funny.
Jenee (44:12):
That instrumental.
Dave (44:12):
I actually wrote that instrumental.
I was going into a session To.
I wasn't really sure what thesession was.
It was for an artist namedCliff Notes and I was going into
the session but I didn't knowif I was playing drums or if we
were just getting together towork on stuff.
So I wrote that track just tohave a track, in case.
(44:35):
He was like, hey, do you haveany track?
You know, and I just went inand I played drums on a couple
songs and that was it.
So I didn't use that track foranything.
But then it got used on yourrecords, so perfect, and use
that track for anything.
But then I got it got used onyour records, so perfect and
obviously the track changed alot and it got edited and the
form changed and stuff.
but the, the, uh, the essentialidea was there yeah, but I think
(44:56):
, for advice to a young producer, that like having just always
be working on music, whether youhave an artist in mind or not,
and I think um, uh, just beingopen to um, trying to produce as
many types of music as you can,it's, it's no different than
(45:16):
being a musician you want tolearn.
If you're going to be a drummer, you want to be able to play
any gig you get called for, orguitarist, you want to.
You know, you know um, you wantto have as much vocabulary at
your disposal as you possiblycan.
And I would say, do a lot of uhanalysis of recordings.
Listen to songs and try tofigure out how they were
(45:38):
recorded and what you know.
How did they get that drumsound?
Imagine where the mics are anddo a lot of style analysis.
You know.
I think it really is helpfulbecause a lot of times you go
into sessions and people willsay I want this to sound like X,
Y or Z and you have to havesome point of reference for
(45:58):
those things.
You have to know what peopleare talking about.
You have to have at least avague idea of where to start to
get those kind of sounds, youknow so.
Or be able to at least listenback and be like, okay, oh, I
have some yeah some semblance ofwhat they're doing there?
Jenee (46:11):
yeah, exactly exactly, um .
Dave (46:14):
So yeah, I think as many, as many types and styles of
music as you can have at yourdisposal, the better off you'll
be yeah, all right my.
All right Good to see you.
I know all there is to knowabout the crying girl.
(46:34):
I've had my share of the cryinggirl.
The Queen Gave First.
There are kisses.
Jenee (46:53):
Then there are sighs and then, before you know where you
are, you're saying goodbye.
(47:21):
It's edited, mixed and masteredby me too, and that theme song
you hear it's called Heartlight.
And yep, you guessed it, it'sfrom my record.
Disposable Love.
Got questions about a certainhealing modality or about
heart-centered healing, or maybeyou just need some advice on
life, love or creativity.
Send it my way, email me atletters at heartlightpodcastcom.
(47:42):
Until next time, I'm JanaeHalstead, and thanks for
listening to Heartlight Sessions.
Welcome to the Heartlight Sessions, a podcast about light
working your way through darktimes.
I'm Janae Halstead.
I'm a singer-songwriter,holistic vocal coach, intuitive
guide and plant medicinefacilitator.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm on a lifelong healingjourney and along the way, I
(00:28):
want to share the ideas andteachings that rock my world.
Every week on HeartlightSessions, I call in artists,
healers and thinkers to explorewhat's helped them live and
thrive from a heart-centeredplace, because the heart, it's
where the best things happen.
If you've ever wondered how tounlock your biggest
(00:51):
breakthroughs or how to comeback from that stuff that tried
to kill you, you know the stuffI'm talking about, the stuff
that's supposed to make youstronger.
Or if you've ever wondered howto just do you straight from the
heart, you're in the rightplace.
So join me, won't you?
Let's turn on that heart light.
Hello.
Dave (01:19):
Hey, how are you?
Jenee (01:20):
Good, how are you?
Dave (01:21):
I'm doing great.
Great to see you.
Jenee (01:22):
Great to see you.
I'm so excited.
Today I have my producer, DaveBrophy.
He's a Boston-based producer,musician, songwriter, and main
instruments are Drums is themain thing, drums is the main
thing, and then piano.
Dave (01:43):
Well, I only ever claim to be a drummer, okay.
Jenee (01:46):
So yeah, I just was thinking this week about.
I was like who do I want tointerview and I want to have a
conversation about highcreativity and art and music.
And I was like, who have I notinterviewed?
It's just odd that like I'veworked with you so much and I've
never talked to you reallyabout your own creative process
(02:09):
and how you work in the studio.
And I just absolutely adoreworking with you and I'm always
like judging to my friends abouthow you're the best to work
with.
And it's because you're so chilland you're so down for whatever
(02:32):
and you're so humble and I'mnot, and that's not like you
know, but like that combination,and then just being brilliant
musically at what you do andhaving a really broad language,
You're like a deadly combination.
Dave (02:51):
Well, I really, really appreciate you saying that,
because it really is a goal ofmine always to, when I work with
someone, to just make surethey're having the most relaxed,
most expressive experience thatthey can have, you know, and
just trying to like set up anenvironment where you know, like
(03:12):
when I'm working with you, Ijust want you to feel like you
can come up with any idea youwant and we'll pursue it.
There's no, you know, I neverwant to put limitations or
constraints on what people feellike they can explore when we're
trying to make somethingtogether.
Jenee (03:27):
So it's really nice to hear you say that yeah, I love.
I mean, I'm like I could bringlike a pile of garbage to you
and you're like, yeah, that'sgreat, that's great, we can work
with that.
Dave (03:38):
You never have brought a pile of garbage to me.
It's always.
There's always good ideas inthere.
It's so funny because I meanand it does kind of speak to me
it's always, there's always goodideas in there.
Jenee (03:46):
Yeah, for sure it's so funny because I mean, and it
does kind of speak to likeactually the, the, sometimes the
simplest ideas are the best,for sure, you know.
And so just bringing even likeramadasa, I was like that was
the simplest, silliest set ofmelodies but there's something
so beautiful about it when it'ssimple.
Dave (04:07):
It's just like there's.
It was.
It just came out so beautifullyand and sometimes the simplest
things are the most accessible,you know, and the most
intriguing I mean in terms ofthe approach to trying to make
(04:48):
sessions feel free and creativeand expressive is, I think a big
part of it is trying to not gointo.
I feel like just being open tofollowing where ideas lead you
and always being open toexploring ideas, like there's no
, there's no bad ideas, thereare no stupid ideas, there's no.
You know, I feel like a lot oftimes, um, you can shut down
avenues by not just exploringeverything that comes up, you
know, because you never know.
(05:09):
I always say, when I'm workingwith people, like I don't know
what the answer is.
You know, I'm not here to giveanswers, I'm here to facilitate
exploring ideas, you know, and Icould come up with something,
but that's not going to be thesame as if we come up with
something together or check outwhat you want to check out on an
idea or whatever.
But yeah, I think being openand just reacting is a big part
(05:32):
of it.
Their most effectiveperformances have been when they
just go into a scene and theyjust listen and they're just
open to going where it takesthem, as opposed to walking into
a scene or a session with apreset idea of how you want the
(05:53):
day to go.
You know you have all thesetools at your disposal, but I
think the main thing first isjust sit down and talk to each
other and listen to each otherand say, okay, I think this is
what you're trying to do.
Let's, let's start working inthis direction and see what
happens and knowing you canalways backtrack and start over
and, you know, just exploredifferent ideas.
But I think that's a good partof it.
Jenee (06:14):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting too because,you know, songwriters are such
characters and you know we'reoften like terribly insecure and
insecure about our musicianshipand I don't know I mean it's
just artists in general or canbe.
So you know, and yeah, I'vebeen in studios before where,
(06:38):
like I felt that there was anagenda or just a lack of
flexibility in that way, and andthat's fine, you know, that's
totally okay.
But for me, when I'm workingwith you, I feel completely
(07:00):
empowered, completely empowered.
You know.
Yeah, even even in times where,like I'm like okay, I'm feeling
really insecure about Iremember one day I had like
really bad brain fog.
I came into the studio and Ihadn't had any coffee yet and
you were like why don't you playthe, the piano part on this?
And my brain like exploded.
(07:21):
I was like I can't do my God, Ican't even like think straight
right now.
And it wasn't even like youjust like stepped up and you
were like you know it's likeokay, well, for one, we don't
really have time to waste, andfor two, like you know, wasn't
like a conversation, you justtook over, you know.
Dave (07:40):
Well, and I feel like you're talking about sometimes
walking into sessions and haveit feel like there's an agenda.
I feel like a lot of times thatagenda can be a time constraint
and can be okay.
We have to be efficient, wehave to get this done For sure,
(08:06):
finished.
But I feel like, more likelythan not, in those situations
when, at the end of the day, itends up taking up more time
trying to do something fast,because a week later, invariably
, the artist calls and says, hey, I don't really love that
version, the tempo is too fastor the key is wrong, or that you
know, and, yes, you got it donein time, but was it the right
thing?
I would rather, I would ratherbe inefficient in, to a certain
(08:26):
extent, in the studio andexplore things and make sure
okay, is this key right?
Is this comfortable?
Are we cool with this idea?
If we're not cool, don't worryabout it, let's go into
something else, or let's let'stry it in a different way, you
know, because I would rather, atthe end of the day, have
something that we're going tokeep, as opposed to five things
that we may or may not keep orthat I then have to convince an
artist exactly keeping you knowbecause it's I just want
(08:49):
everyone to feel like the thingyou leave with is absolutely the
right thing, and you're totallypsyched about it and and you're
armed with the knowledge thatif in a week you don't like it,
we can do it again.
You know, like it's, it's not abig deal, we won't stop until we
get it right.
Jenee (09:05):
Basically, you know I mean that's huge.
You know I I know so manyartists that have like well,
especially in their early albums, you know you don't really have
self kind of self-awareness oryou don't have the confidence.
And then you go in and maybeyou're making an album like
maybe you're making an album innashville with a bunch of studio
guys and maybe you're making analbum like maybe you're making
an album in Nashville with abunch of studio guys and like
(09:27):
you're just completely likenothing is yours, you don't have
artistic autonomy, and then youdon't want to put anything out
because you like get it back andthen you hate it.
And you know, I feel, I feelgrateful in that way, like
moving slow to get ahead.
You know.
Dave (09:43):
Yeah, exactly, and it's like we get to move slow.
But I think we are moreefficient in the long run
because we move slow and becauseit gets it gets the artist into
a mental state where they're nolonger worrying about whether
or not we're on the same team,and that eats up a lot of energy
sometimes.
So it, by taking that barrierdown and freeing up that energy,
(10:06):
you also become more efficientin your decision making as the
artist, because you know thatI'm not going to do anything
that goes against what you'reasking me to do, you know.
So it ends up being, I think, afaster way of doing things in
the long run and people are moresatisfied by it, I think.
Jenee (10:31):
Yeah, how do you see studios kind of changing?
And I think this is part of aninteresting conversation about,
you know, like being autonomousand being able to own your own
space, have your own space andwork you know, work as a
producer, producer, engineer andhaving all that skill set
because it just it, it allowsfor a breadth of um you know,
(10:51):
time and creativity to happenthat maybe wouldn't happen if
you're renting space or totally,totally.
Dave (10:58):
I mean, yeah, and I feel so lucky to um have wound up in
a space that functions well, asa studio that I own, that I can
be in charge of, because it doestake that that stress out of
the equation of when you'reworking on a project and and
(11:19):
maybe you start off in the wrongdirection, you have to
backtrack and make somedifferent decisions.
You're not looking at the clockand saying, well, okay, okay,
well, that that two hours costsus 300 bucks or whatever.
You know like, you're notticking away.
Each minute isn't costing you aton of money.
Um, because you have thefreedom of owning the space that
you're working in, and I thinkthat's so many people are doing
(11:39):
that now just for that reason.
You know, I think um, studiosare super expensive, but there
is, it's just a differentmentality.
I I, if I had my way, I wouldlove to be in someone else's
studio with someone else beingthe engineer and and I get to
just produce.
Because there is, it is a lot ofuh, um, mental strain to wear
(12:03):
the hat of the engineer and beplaying instruments on things
and be producing, becausesomething, uh, something is lost
when you're doing that manythings and if you can set it up
where someone else isengineering and you're just
producing, it just frees upenergy and brain space.
You know to totally payattention to different aspects
(12:25):
of things, so it comes at a cost, but it is easier and and a lot
more uh, affordable, obviously.
But.
But when everything lines upright and um, and you know
budgets align and and it feelslike you're prepared for a
record and you can go into astudio space, that that is kind
(12:47):
of an ideal setup.
But but when you're justexploring ideas and trying to be
really, uh, flexible, having aspace of your own to work in
this is really beneficial.
At least I have found it.
It works really well yeah, yeah.
I think that really is the keyis having you know, having the
band prepared, yeah, being armed, and before you're setting foot
(13:10):
in a space like that, you haveto have, essentially, made all
your decisions beforehand, youknow so that then it's just a
matter of physically doing thethings, setting up the room and
(13:33):
getting the sounds that you want, but you're not trying new
things necessarily in the studio, because that could eat up a
lot of time and that representsa lot of money.
So it's just two differentapproaches.
You know two differentapproaches to the process and I
don't think either is better orworse.
It's just.
It's just how.
What is your schedule allow?
(13:55):
What does your budget allow?
What kind of music are youtrying to make is?
Are we tracking it all live,with six or seven people playing
at the same time, or is it justyou and I in a room figuring
stuff out and building layersand then having people come by
and add things?
You know.
So it's just different ways ofcreating, you know.
Jenee (14:13):
Yeah, it's really fun watching video clips of like you
and Will Daly being in thestudio and played with each
other for years and played witheach other for years and you
know he's so profound in hismusicianship and has a real like
presence and kind of way thathe goes about his thing.
(14:35):
His thing is like solid youknow, so being able to step into
a space like that, and just youknow.
Dave (14:42):
Yeah, and that was an interesting experience because
it was a combination of the twothings we're talking about, in
that we had the luxury of ofbeing at q division for an
extended stay.
Um and he and I had worked outa lot of that material for the
record just the two of us, butwithout having worked out bass
(15:05):
parts or other guitar partsnecessarily.
We just had the basic idea ofeverything, and so we hired the
guys we wanted to hire, and thenevery day we wouldn't let them
hear the songs until the day wewere recording the song, so we
would play them the demo.
That was usually just me andWill on the demo.
We'd listen to the songtogether and then we'd just go
out and start playing it.
Because in that instance theresult was not pre preordained.
(15:31):
We didn't know exactly what wewanted.
We just knew that it was goingto be a cool version of the song
, you know.
So part of that was being opento whatever happened and not
being too nitpicky about oh, Iwant the bass part to be this,
so I want the base.
You know things like that.
So, uh, being open um to theresult was a big part of that
process and I think it turnedout great and it was such a good
(15:53):
energy and such a such a neatprocess.
Jenee (15:55):
When did you?
Oh, go ahead, Were you going to?
Dave (15:58):
say I was going to say it felt so luxurious too.
Jenee (16:00):
Yeah, totally it was.
Dave (16:01):
I forget what it was 10 days or something like that, so
it was great.
Jenee (16:05):
I know I really enjoyed watching the footage.
I was like, oh, this looks sofun.
Dave (16:09):
So much fun.
Jenee (16:12):
When did you decide that you wanted to produce music?
Dave (16:18):
It was actually, you know, I had always messed around with
recording when I was younger,like you know, in college, and I
did a lot of recording in highschool with bands and stuff, um,
and then over the years, youknow, had like an eight track
recorder that I messed aroundwith a lot and and then garage
(16:39):
band when it came out, did abunch of stuff on garage band
just kind of by myself, justtrying to learn about things.
And then when I moved to bostonI started doing getting a lot
more studio work as a drummerand the first thing I ever
really produced or got creditedfor producing was a Will Daly
(17:00):
record called National Throat.
Jenee (17:01):
Oh wow and um yeah.
Dave (17:01):
And yeah and thanks and uh , yeah it it did really well for
an independent record and won acouple like album of the year
awards and stuff like that andso it was really nice to have
produced that um, because it ledto a lot more work with other
bands, um, so, um, yeah, thatwas kind of the beginning of it
(17:25):
and it was more the experienceof spending so much time in
studios as a drummer andwatching producers and how they
went about things and and beingreally interested in the
technical side of things andmicrophones and preamps and you
know different drum setups andthings like that Um, it always
really intrigued me.
And then also just the spendinga couple of decades only being
(17:47):
a drummer like a liveperformance drummer, performance
drummer um, it started to wearon me in terms of just spending
that much time away from homeand traveling so much and and
carrying a drum set from placeto place, you know, packing up a
drum set every night and justliving the kind of late night
lifestyle and being on the roada lot.
that started to, uh, appeal tome less and less.
(18:07):
And then the notion of like, oh, maybe I could set up my life
where I do that a little bit,but I mostly work in studios and
mostly work on records.
So, thankfully, so far I'vebeen able to do that, and so
that was really one of themotivating factors to have.
Just, I don't love being on theroad all the time, so if I
could figure out a way to avoidthat, that'd be great, and I
(18:28):
also love making records.
So, yeah, I think it was about2015 was probably when I really
started producing mostly andkind of weaning myself out of
playing live as much.
But yeah, it's been.
So it's been pretty, prettybusy since then, pretty busy
since then.
(18:49):
And yeah, I'm just alwaystrying to hone the craft and
learn, you know, as much as Ican about mixing and producing
and, all you know, every aspectof it is really intriguing to me
.
So I'm just always trying topractice it and get better at it
.
Jenee (19:03):
Yeah, were you self-taught initially in just
some of the basic engineering,or were you taking?
Were you taking courses or no,complete, totally self-taught.
Dave (19:14):
And then, um uh, I mean I went to one uh mixing camp in
france I remember that was likeright when we.
It was much later on, yeah, itwas much later on.
It was like I had kind of, youknow, learned, learned from
friends and taught myself andagain just being in studios a
lot you get to pick people'sbrains and get to.
(19:36):
You know, luckily I have a lotof good engineer friends and
anytime something goes wrong I'mcalling, you know, pat DeCenzo,
or somebody and be like.
Hey man, so this thing justhappened in Pro Tools.
What do I do?
And when you're under pressurelike that, you learn pretty fast
.
You know you have people in theroom that are that think you
know what you're doing, right,right you're like I'll be right
(19:56):
back I know I'll be right back.
You're in the bathroom making acall totally, um, but no, mostly
self-taught and and taughtthrough friends.
You know, didn't have any anyformal uh engineering training.
You know, um, i't have any anyformal engineering training.
You know, I had gone to schoolfor music, gone to undergrad for
(20:17):
music and grad school for music, but not for production, just
for performance.
Jenee (20:21):
Yeah, and how?
Because we started my albumlike right when you got back
from France, I think yeah, andhow much of that, how helpful
was that it was really helpful.
Dave (20:35):
And I think actually I went to France right after we
tracked your record, I think,because I brought some of your
sessions to that thing and sosome of the tracks were used
over the course of the class,you know, to mess with drum
sounds and stuff like that.
It was really helpful.
(20:55):
I mean, it was really.
It was with a guy named ChadBlake, who's one of my favorite
mixing engineers, and it wasjust a beautiful experience to
have a week of waking up everymorning, having breakfast with a
group of people all going intothe studio and just spending the
entire day and night in thestudio listening to mixes,
talking about mixes, working onmixes, and having this guy, chad
(21:19):
Blake, who is, you know, one ofthe top mixing engineers in the
world and he's such a humble,sweet, open guy, sweet open guy,
um and so, uh, you could, youcould imagine someone like him,
who has such a unique process,being very secretive about how
he does what he does, and he'snot at all.
(21:40):
He's completely open about it,he's totally transparent with
what he's doing and he, he, hisphilosophy is I can tell you
every single thing I'm doing ona mix, and you're still going to
do it differently, like theresult will still be different
than if I did it, versus himdoing it.
You know, and it's true, it'sjust you can't replace the
personal aspect of that, andthat's one of the things about
(22:01):
mixing I like too.
It's like you can say a mix isgood or bad, if you want, but
the mix is an expression of theperson that's doing the mix or
or where they were mentally thatday, you know.
So it's, it's a cool uhdocument kind of of how that
person was feeling that day orwhat they were hearing.
And and it is a it's a strangeart too, because I'll I'll work
(22:22):
on mixes and think that itsounds really good and then I'll
go back and listen the next dayand think what, the what?
This is terrible, you know, ormy god, it's great, you know
it's just, it's a, it's a mentalgame.
You know, it's very strange.
It's unlike any other part ofmusic.
Jenee (22:36):
I feel like yeah I've heard that from a lot of
producers and it's interestingtoo, because a lot of it has to
do with like negative space aswell, like what's not coming
through.
Dave (22:48):
It does it does, and it's a strange, um, it's a strange
art form in that music,essentially, is meant to be a
fleeting thing.
You know, you, you, you hear itwhen it's being created or when
it's coming at you and itwashes over you and it's good
and it's gone.
It's meant to you experience itonce and so to then repeat it
(23:10):
over and over and hyperscrutinize a performance.
There's something unnaturalabout that, really,
fundamentally, and so, as aresult, you end up getting very
nitpicky about some very strangethings that you know, I can
listen to a song a hundred timeswhen I'm working on a mix and
I'll play it for you and you'llbe like, yeah, that sounds great
, like none of the nuance willmatter on one listen you know
(23:31):
and it's part of.
there's an interesting thing youcan do, like if you think of a
Motown song, think of a classicsong that everybody knows, you
know post Mr Postman, orsomething like that, my girl.
Yeah, and you're, when you thinkabout it right now, you think
of this majestic, beautifullyrecorded, rich sounding thing.
(23:51):
But then if you sit down, youknow, at a computer or something
, and you really scrutinizewhat's going on, you think man,
those hand claps and thattambourine are so loud and
there's like no low end and thebass and that is that vocal, a
little bit out of tune, like youcan.
Even these classic, beautifullyrecorded things, if you get
into the right mindset, you canbe really critical of them and
(24:12):
you wouldn't necessarily makethem better by mixing them again
.
It's just this weird mentalthing that happens when you're
asked to give an opinion aboutsomething.
You're going to come up with anopinion about it, whether it's
good or bad.
Yeah, totally, it's a tricky,tricky thing to, I don't know,
not to master, but just to putyourself through, you know.
Jenee (24:32):
It's a weird experience.
It's very subjective.
And I think there is somethingabout like it's interesting
because there's definitely likethe aesthetics and what you know
and something being good andall of these intangibles you
know good and these, all ofthese intangibles you know.
Dave (24:55):
but it can be like small tweaks that make or break a song
.
You know, I know it's reallyinteresting and it's, it's, yeah
, it's, uh.
It's a difficult thing not tobecome like super neurotic about
because you at some point youhave to say this is totally fine
you know, yeah, I mean there'sa great story about which a lot
of people know now, but aboutMichael Jackson mixing I think
it was beat it and he's with theengineer Bruce, with Dean who
(25:18):
tracked all that stuff, and theyhad worked on something like 96
mixes of the song and QuincyJones came into the studio and
they played him the 96 mix.
They said this is this, is it?
So check it out.
And he listens to it and hesays, okay, play me mix number
two.
And they play a mix number twoand he goes that's the one and
(25:39):
that's the one that came out.
You know, it's like you can getreally nitpicky and at the end
of the day it doesn't reallymake that big of a difference
with a lot of the decisions youmake it's.
Jenee (25:47):
It's similar also to scratch vocals, like, or, you
know, recording and like goingback and being like, oh my god,
I actually like the scratchvocals.
They're the best because thepressure, the pressure isn't
there, you know exactly, yeah,and and it's.
Dave (26:03):
It's really interesting, yeah, especially with the vocal
thing, because you can thinkthere is a natural uh emotion
that comes out when you'resinging and not thinking about
it, and then think there is anatural uh emotion that comes
out when you're singing and notthinking about it, and then
there's kind of a false emotionthat can come out when you're
thinking about oh, I know whatthis is supposed to be yeah, and
you're going into it with kindof a preset idea of how to react
to something or how to emotesomething, and sometimes it
(26:25):
doesn't work, as well as whenyou're not thinking about it.
Jenee (26:27):
Yeah, or you're hyper-concerned about technique,
or you're hyper-concerned aboutvowel placement, or, you know,
as singers, it's just like it'scrazy and I love working with
you as a singer.
You know, it was funny becauseJess, my friend Jess, is
starting to work with you.
And she, you know, I think shehad one session or I don't know
(26:52):
how many sessions, but shetexted me and she was like like
that was the best vocal sessionI've ever had.
Did she sing?
Dave (27:00):
She did yeah.
Jenee (27:01):
Yeah, she was like that was hands down, Like and she's
worked a ton in Nashville andlike she's made a lot of albums
and that's really sweet you know, I mean I.
Dave (27:11):
The only thing I can say about tracking vocals that I
have found to be helpful forsingers is, I think, um, with a
lot of producers or engineers,there's a tendency to have a
person do one or two takes of asong and then immediately start
giving notes yeah.
Hey, okay.
So on the first line, let's dothis, and maybe on the second
(27:32):
line we get, and then it alwaysseems to me that the singers
just kind of shut down a littlebit or it becomes too many
things to keep track of, andit's, it's just not then then
they're doing a different job.
Suddenly they're fulfilling achecklist that you've given them
.
They're not singing the song.
I tend to like to let someonesing full passes four or five
(27:53):
times.
Let them, you know, becausegenerally singers will make the
corrections they're supposed tomake if you just let them go
because they know what they'redoing, but I think, sing it,
sing it four or five times, comeout, listen to a couple takes,
see how it's translated.
Okay, go on and do a couple moreand you, I feel like that's
generally, you get what you need, and people tend to correct
(28:13):
their own, not mistakes, but thevariations that may or may not
work.
They tend to correct thosethemselves without you having to
.
You know, sometimes you have tomake notes and say, okay,
there's this one thing that Ithink would be better this way.
Great, let's get that, you know.
But in terms of overall, a fullperformance, I think letting
(28:33):
people guide themselves is a bigpart of it, you know, and not,
um, not stressing them out witha bunch of notes all at once.
Jenee (28:42):
Yeah, and I love you know , like you're saying, it's
sometimes it takes four or fivetimes before you're even like
warmed up.
Even if you've been singing,even if you've been singing now
it's like a new song or a newtake and you have to get into
the feel of it.
You know, and then it's like,okay, if the approach isn't
(29:03):
working, let's like let's stepback, maybe we can.
Dave (29:06):
You know we can approach this differently, but yeah, and
I think you at least want to getto the point where you're not
thinking about it actively asmuch.
When you're doing it, you know,the first couple takes.
You're always.
You're in front of a new mic,you're getting your headphones
set, you're, you feel weirdabout it because you can hear
yourself so well through theheadphone.
You know, and it takes a couplepasses to get become a little
(29:27):
bit mindless about it, which Ithink is the sweet spot of you
kind of forget that you'retracking, you're just listening
to the music I mean I have Iremember on you, on your, record
.
We ended up using a lot of theearly vocals.
Yeah, from early takes andtakes of you laying down on the
ground in my old place, and youknow just like things that were
so casual.
(29:48):
But there was something aboutthose performances generally
that was just so heartfelt andhad so much nuance to them.
You know just it was.
It was such a nice, such a funprocess.
Jenee (30:00):
Yeah, it's like the over singing is a big one for me, and
For everybody.
Yeah, yeah and overthinking.
And it's interesting with themantra album because it was so
different, like because you haveto be really careful about the
(30:23):
vowels, like you know the vowel,especially in sanskrit music,
um, or you know prayer, thevowel is the sacred um, you know
it.
It carries the sacred vibrationof the sound.
Yeah, yeah, yeah interesting andyou get, you get into it and
(30:45):
you're like you have to be socareful with, like your
consonants and your breath andlike how you're delivering, and
so it was like, wow, that wasjust a huge learning curve in
and of itself.
In and of itself.
Dave (31:03):
And that's an interesting setup too for a vocalist,
because in that scenario it isyour voice but you're not being
asked to be yourself necessarily.
I'm not saying, okay, how wouldyou say this line?
It's like you have a criteriathat you have to fulfill but
(31:24):
then also impart a little bit ofyourself at the same time.
So it was definitely aninteresting challenge.
I remember, on a couple ofthose takes, getting really good
takes and thinking, oh, that'sthe one.
And then you come out andlisten and say, oh wait, that
one vowel is not, that's not theright oh sound or you know, and
things that would be lost on me, not knowing intricacies of the
mantras.
So it was really great that youhad that knowledge.
But there were quite a fewreally great takes that we just
(31:47):
didn't use because it'd just bea subtle thing, you know.
Jenee (31:50):
Yeah, the pronunciation is, and then the meaning is off
and then it doesn't hold thevibrational code, it's so weird,
but head explodes but, it wasreally fun, like and then to be
able to be in your heart,because that's the other thing
(32:11):
is, like with mantra you want tobe able to actually express
this vibrational music, likethrough your heart, to be
heart-centered yeah and I lovelike.
A lot of times you'd be like,okay, now smile through this
phrase which is you know likeand that's a great.
Dave (32:31):
I love that trick, by the way yeah, it's a great trick it
works across the board.
It always like when people aresaying if someone sings a little
bit flat or someone's notsinging bright enough, it's like
you can you really can hearthat you can really hear when
someone's frowning or someone'ssmiling Totally.
It's an interesting thing, yeah, and just getting people like
(32:53):
in the mask, you know, orwhatever you want to call it.
Jenee (32:54):
But yeah, yeah, it was, it was super fun.
I definitely want to, you know,make another singer songwriter
album, but I'm like really onthis kick of like, wow, I love
the challenge of it.
Dave (33:09):
Oh, it's so much fun, yeah , and, and that that record was
so much fun to make.
I mean, we had fun, it was,yeah, it was just a great time
it was.
It was great, it was so relaxedand so creative and so yeah
yeah, it just felt great.
It was really a nice way tospend a bunch of days, you know
yeah, and it's I love.
Jenee (33:24):
What I love about that music is it doesn't it's not
like, okay, it's rock and it hasto have like this kind of
foundation it can be likewhatever it can be, whatever
yeah, anything you know totally,totally yeah, so we were, we
were pulling out all theinstruments and exploring.
Dave (33:43):
I love yeah.
Jenee (33:44):
Yeah, really fun.
So when you're, when you'reworking, do you have like a
specific set of?
I know you're saying you kindof want to meet people where
they're at you know, really beopen?
Do you have a mindset or aphilosophy or a way that you go
(34:08):
about working with quote unquotedifficult artists?
Dave (34:13):
I think you know it's like there can be artists that are
difficult to work with, I guess,but I think what it really is
is it's not so much that peopleare difficult.
A lot of times it's that peoplehave things that they want to
hear, but they might not havethe vocabulary to express
exactly what it is they'relooking for.
(34:34):
Or or they know, when they hearsomething that they don't like
it, but they're not sure what itis they don't like about it.
Or the opposite they reallylike something but they're not
sure how to express what it isthey like about it.
The opposite they really likesomething but they're not sure
how to express what it is theylike about it.
Um, so a lot of it, a lot of thetime, when things become, um,
(34:55):
like need extra effort or becomea little bit harder to uh, get
around, a lot of the time whatit ends up being is just trying
to decode what somebody istrying to say or what they're
feeling, or a lot of it is justtranslating people's feelings
into okay, what do they mean bythat?
Yeah, yeah, sometimes it's, youknow, if people feel like
(35:19):
things are getting beyond wherethey want it to be, a lot of
times, what I'll end up doing isum, I mean, we had had this
happen with a record recently,and I feel like a lot of times
when things aren't going well, Ijust start muting things in a
section you know, it's like okay, so if there's guitar, bass,
drums, piano, vocals, I'll justtake everything away, Like I
(35:41):
usually.
start with the drums, let's justmute all the drums, get rid of
everything that I did.
you know like, let's see whatthat does, because a lot of
times things get too congestedor things get pulled in a
certain way or um yeah, but Ifeel like a lot of times things,
some problems, can be solved byjust opening up the session,
mute half the things and see.
(36:02):
See if, fundamentally, thetrack is still good and maybe
it's just that it needs somebreathing room.
Maybe it's just, maybe there'stoo many things going on, maybe
the message is getting lostbecause I got overexcited about
oh, let's do this cool thing andthis other cool thing, you know
sometimes you can get carriedaway with that.
Um, but I think at the end ofthe day, it's not.
It's not about people beingdifficult or easy to work with,
(36:28):
it's not.
It's not about people beingdifficult or easy to work with.
It's about just trying to makepeople happy, and sometimes that
takes more work than othertimes.
You know, it's just,everybody's feelings are valid
when, especially when it's abouttheir music and the result of
their music.
You know, and and I always sayto people like we're not, the
record's not done until you'reso happy with it.
You know, like that's that's myonly goal is to.
(36:49):
It has very little to do with meor what I want it to sound like
, because I could make, I couldmake your record sound exactly
how I think it should be, andyou might be uncomfortable with
it, or you might say, yeah,that's not really the vibe I
wanted and so it has reallynothing to do with me.
No-transcript.
(37:27):
Plenty of records where, when Ilistened to him, I think this
doesn't sound like anything Iwould have made.
But I really enjoy it, you know, because it's it's making
decisions that, um, other peopleum, wanted to hear, and that's
that's great.
That's part of the job too as aproducer.
It's not all about my taste ormy putting my fingerprint on
(37:49):
something.
A lot of times it's just aboutfacilitating what people are
hearing, you know so yeah, andand I do think there's something
to be said about stretching anartist.
Jenee (37:59):
You know, like when I first started working with you,
I, I, I wanted to work with youbecause I love the work you did
and and it was so like edgy andneo soul and like I mean you
make all sorts of stuff, butlike I was really attracted to
that and then, like the firstsong that we worked on, you know
(38:20):
, the crying game and it comesback and the you know it's like
double vocals and all this stuffand I'm like what?
yeah and then.
But really like there issomething I think as an artist,
if you're gonna hire a producerand you are trying to go first,
(38:41):
you know, I wanted to level upmy sound yeah I wanted you know,
and so it was like yeah, likeyou definitely made some
concessions for me and like sureI don't know how many times
went back to the mix.
But um, which don't do that.
People don't do that to yourproducer, but really like it was
(39:01):
a super cool sound.
it's just like I had to attunemy ears to a different you know,
to a completely different wayof coming from, like the folk
world, and then you know yeah,yeah, and it's interesting
because that that could havegone either way.
Dave (39:20):
I could have sent you that crying game rough idea and you
could have been like no, this isnot at all what I want to do.
We got to do something, youknow, and that would have been
fine.
No, this is not at all what Iwant to do.
We got to do something, youknow, and that would have been
fine.
We would have done somethingelse, you know, or we would have
done a different version of thecrying game.
You know that that would havebeen fine, you know.
Yeah, um, but yeah, it's justinteresting because it is a
conversation, it is a back andforth and and the process always
has to start somewhere, and itgenerally starts with me putting
(39:43):
together a rough idea forsomebody and saying, hey, this
is what I'm thinking, what doyou think, how do, and then, and
then it just goes from therebecause you, you have to have a
place to start, you know.
Jenee (39:52):
Yeah.
Dave (39:52):
Um, but the crying game.
That just made me think.
I just had a flashback todriving around Marguerite, nova
Scotia and the.
The eighties version of thecrying game came on the radio
and I remember writing in myphone a note to myself cover
this song for Janae.
Because, it was before we hadstarted working on your record.
No way, yeah, I was like, ohGod, it's so cool.
(40:14):
I just had a flashback to that.
Jenee (40:16):
That's so funny.
It was the perfect song.
Dave (40:19):
Oh, I love that song so much.
It's just so, and your versionof it is the best.
And your version of it is thebest.
It's good.
Jenee (40:25):
It is really good and it's like really it gets a lot
of plays in Russia.
Like we're famous in Russia.
I'm like they love me in Moscow.
Amazing, I had this like guyreach out and he's like it was
so weird, it was like brokenEnglish, and he's like this is
the best version ever and I waslike where's this from?
(40:46):
And then it had gotten like5,000 Shazams in one day and I
guess this well-known Russianradio host found it and played
it.
Oh my gosh, amazing.
I love that.
You know this is so fun that itresonated with people.
I was like, yeah, no, totally,it's amazing, it's amazing.
I it's like, yeah, no, totallyit's amazing.
Dave (41:05):
It's amazing and it's the and whether it's 5 000 shazams
in a day or one shazam in a day,it's like the fact that someone
heard it and was intriguedenough to bother yeah to shazam
it or to you know it's likethat's, that's the power of, of,
of music and the wholecommunicative aspect of it.
Is you you're it's out of yourcontrol who loves it or hates it
?
You know, and you're justputting it.
Is you you're it's out of yourcontrol who loves it or hates it
(41:27):
?
You know, and you're justputting it out, and you can be
really pleasantly surprised bywho knew russian people were
gonna love a cover of the cryinggame.
But I'll take it whateverwhatever it is absolutely
positive or negative?
Jenee (41:41):
it's a reaction so it's good I definitely want to do a
covers album with you.
Dave (41:46):
I'm like that's next on the docket let's do it like
let's do it we could startdreaming into the songs
absolutely that'd be so much funit's gonna be amazing I'll get
started today.
Let's all right, I'll send yousome rough spice tonight.
Jenee (42:02):
I love it, I love it so I'm so glad I got to talk to you
.
I feel like I could talk to youfor hours about the creative
process.
Dave (42:10):
It's so much fun, I hope.
I hope I'm answering yourquestions in a sensical way, but
so fun, yeah, If.
Jenee (42:17):
What if you were talking to like a new producer?
Dave (42:23):
yeah.
Jenee (42:24):
What advice would you give to them?
Someone, someone young, maybethey just got out of like school
or they've got like a fewalbums under their belt well, I
would say, um, it's tough toknow.
Dave (42:36):
I guess it would depend what what kind of music they
were trying to make.
If they're, if they'reproducing their own music, if
they're producing music forother people, let's say they're
producing music for other peopleyeah, well, I think I think
even part of producing music forother people is to start by
producing for yourself.
(42:56):
Like have, have a folder oftracks that you've made for
nobody.
You know, like I have hundredsof songs that are just
instrumentals, that might havelike a rough vocal of me singing
an idea, but but it gives you,it gives you practice building,
uh, this kind of soundscapes andand working on song forms and
(43:19):
things like that.
And most of the things thatI've written as instrumentals
will never get used for anything, but elements of those tracks
will get used in the future.
Jenee (43:27):
Yeah.
Dave (43:28):
Um, and, and it's also nice when you're going into a
session with an artist to havesome instrumentals at the ready,
because you never know youcould, you know you could, uh,
work on a song and now it's justnot working.
And you, you know I've had in alot of sessions I'll say, well,
(43:51):
hey, check this out.
And I'll just play a rough ideaand be like, oh whoa, what's
that?
And then, all of a sudden,you're co-writing a track with
somebody or you're, you know, Imean, I'll be your man and
heartlight is a good idea, Likethat track.
That was just an instrumentaltrack that I put together and
you had those lyrics writtendown.
Jenee (44:03):
That's the podcast intro.
Dave (44:05):
That's there you go.
So yeah, that that instrumentalwas just.
That is funny.
Jenee (44:12):
That instrumental.
Dave (44:12):
I actually wrote that instrumental.
I was going into a session To.
I wasn't really sure what thesession was.
It was for an artist namedCliff Notes and I was going into
the session but I didn't knowif I was playing drums or if we
were just getting together towork on stuff.
So I wrote that track just tohave a track, in case.
(44:35):
He was like, hey, do you haveany track?
You know, and I just went inand I played drums on a couple
songs and that was it.
So I didn't use that track foranything.
But then it got used on yourrecords, so perfect, and use
that track for anything.
But then I got it got used onyour records, so perfect and
obviously the track changed alot and it got edited and the
form changed and stuff.
but the, the, uh, the essentialidea was there yeah, but I think
(44:56):
, for advice to a young producer, that like having just always
be working on music, whether youhave an artist in mind or not,
and I think um, uh, just beingopen to um, trying to produce as
many types of music as you can,it's, it's no different than
(45:16):
being a musician you want tolearn.
If you're going to be a drummer, you want to be able to play
any gig you get called for, orguitarist, you want to.
You know, you know um, you wantto have as much vocabulary at
your disposal as you possiblycan.
And I would say, do a lot of uhanalysis of recordings.
Listen to songs and try tofigure out how they were
(45:38):
recorded and what you know.
How did they get that drumsound?
Imagine where the mics are anddo a lot of style analysis.
You know.
I think it really is helpfulbecause a lot of times you go
into sessions and people willsay I want this to sound like X,
Y or Z and you have to havesome point of reference for
(45:58):
those things.
You have to know what peopleare talking about.
You have to have at least avague idea of where to start to
get those kind of sounds, youknow so.
Or be able to at least listenback and be like, okay, oh, I
have some yeah some semblance ofwhat they're doing there?
Jenee (46:11):
yeah, exactly exactly, um .
Dave (46:14):
So yeah, I think as many, as many types and styles of
music as you can have at yourdisposal, the better off you'll
be yeah, all right my.
All right Good to see you.
I know all there is to knowabout the crying girl.
(46:34):
I've had my share of the cryinggirl.
The Queen Gave First.
There are kisses.
Jenee (46:53):
Then there are sighs and then, before you know where you
are, you're saying goodbye.
(47:21):
It's edited, mixed and masteredby me too, and that theme song
you hear it's called Heartlight.
And yep, you guessed it, it'sfrom my record.
Disposable Love.
Got questions about a certainhealing modality or about
heart-centered healing, or maybeyou just need some advice on
life, love or creativity.
Send it my way, email me atletters at heartlightpodcastcom.
(47:42):
Until next time, I'm JanaeHalstead, and thanks for
listening to Heartlight Sessions.
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