November 4, 2024 • 69 mins
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Join me in conversation with Kat Gordon, founder of the Yarrow Resilience Institute, as we explore the transformative wisdom of plant medicine and the sacred practice of plant dieta, a tradition rooted in the indigenous cultures of the South American Amazon. Kat reveals how connecting with plant spirits can unlock a “living library” of healing and guidance, transcending traditional texts. I share insights from her five-week rose dieta container and how it has changed my life. Together, we journey through stories of Andean wisdom, community gardens, and ceremonial practices, discussing the responsibilities and rewards of integrating these traditions into modern wellness with respect and reciprocity. Tune in for a heart-centered exploration of personal and societal healing through plant allies.
About Kat:
Originally from California, Kat Gordon has immersed herself in the Andean-Amazonian cosmovision of Peru for the past 13 years. Her work blends ancient wisdom from indigenous and modern traditions with her local bioregion, with nature as her greatest teacher.
Kat's journey began in the high Andes, where she learned from wise women—keepers of herbal knowledge and stewards of the earth. She has traveled through the Amazon Rainforest, the Andean mountains, Europe, and California, connecting deeply with the land and its wisdom keepers.
After years of inner exploration guided by master plants, Kat now walks the path of the wise woman, sharing teachings that help others connect with their unique wisdom and blossom in life. Her offerings draw from her studies in Amazonian healing, folk herbalism, yoga, permaculture, and sacred rituals. She is honored to guide others on their journeys.
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CREDITS:
Introduction script: Jessica Tardy
Introduction mix and master: Ed Arnold
Theme Song: "Heart Light" by Jenee Halstead and Dave Brophy
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This podcast is presented solely for entertainment and education purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, psychotherapist, or any other qualified professional. We shall in no event be held liable to any party for any reason arising directly or indirectly for the use or interpretation of the information presented in this audio. Copyright 2024, Heart Light Media, LLC - All rights reserved.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenee (00:06):
Welcome to the Heartlight Sessions, a podcast about light
working your way through darktimes.
I'm Janae Halstead.
I'm a singer-songwriter,holistic vocal coach, intuitive
guide and plant medicinefacilitator.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm on a lifelong healingjourney and along the way, I
(00:28):
want to share the ideas andteachings that rock my world.
Every week on HeartlightSessions, I call in artists,
healers and thinkers to explorewhat's helped them live and
thrive from a heart-centeredplace, Because the heart, it's
where the best things happen.
If you've ever wondered how tounlock your biggest
(00:51):
breakthroughs or how to comeback from that stuff that tried
to kill you, you know the stuffI'm talking about, the stuff
that's supposed to make youstronger.
Or if you've ever wondered howto just do you straight from the
heart, you're in the rightplace.
So join me, won't you?
Let's turn on that heart light.
All right, we are rolling.
(01:19):
So I have Kat Gordon with meand she has the yarrow
resilience institute.
She's the founder.
She is a plant medicine guide,an herbalist, um, an earth
tender any any other titles thatcovers it pretty much yes
(01:42):
and I am.
I have the wonderfullife-changing opportunity to be
in a container with Kat and it'sBeth Weinstein.
You guys have you're hosting afive-week rose dieta and so I am
on week two with you and it'sbeen like, wow, what a medicine.
(02:09):
And I feel like it came at likesuch a perfect time and you
know, I know the idea around itwas to do it before the election
.
You know Beth was saying likethe whole country needs this
dieta right now.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about what a dieta is and
then maybe we can like talkabout the rose and the rose
magic.
Kat (02:30):
Yes, absolutely I would love to.
So I've been thinking a lotabout actually how to explain
this, because the word dietaitself comes from the South
American Amazonian indigenoustraditions.
Specifically, the strongestgroup I know that works yet is
the Shipibo, but many differentgroups who are holders of
(02:55):
ancient knowledge, ways thatprotect the living plant
libraries.
They have something they call adieta, and it's basically a
deep immersion and relationshipbuilding with the spirit of a
plant, and the purpose of thatis one to learn the mysteries or
the secrets that a plant holds,or the teachings that it holds
(03:17):
for us, collectively andindividually, and then it is
also to receive healing andguidance from the plant.
And so, whatever you receive,there are overall messages that
particular plants offer up, andthat's why a teacher would be
like, hey, why don't you dietthis versus this?
And then, of course, how you'regoing to receive the messages
(03:40):
and the way it comes through isbased on your unique lived
experience, and so that is wherethe healing and the insights
come.
So there are some overallmessages one may receive.
Many people who diet rose willreceive similar messages, and
then there's going to be theseindividualized.
It's both a study, it's both a.
It's a study, it's a healingjourney and it's basically
(04:02):
connecting with the energy bodyof a plant.
But I will add, I always liketo add so dieta is one name for
these plant spirit immersions.
But cultures, all ancientcultures around the world, have,
from my studies and what I'veseen, have something similar to
(04:23):
a dieta.
They may work a little bitdifferently.
They have different masterplants.
That's what we call what wediet in the traditions that they
work with.
But this process of engagingwith the plant, beyond its
physical constituents and beyondwhat it can offer you for
(04:43):
physical healing, what we calllike the herbal actions of a
plant.
It's that engagement with theenergetic spiritual body of the
plant and kind of like takingthat in and inviting that energy
and that soul like into communewith your soul.
Jenee (05:02):
That's so beautiful.
What did you say?
The living library of.
Kat (05:08):
Yeah, that's what I call.
So I've been doing these dietasfor years where I go to the
Amazon and actually sit withplants.
I actually started my journeywith dieta with the Brazilian
tribes also.
Jenee (05:25):
So I've done.
Kat (05:26):
Sorry I didn't start, but I have done many different
traditions.
I misspoke.
I started with the Shipibo.
I started this whole journeywith the Shipibo elders in Peru.
But I've learned over the years.
So you know, a lot of times inherbalism and when we're trying
to learn a skill, but especiallyherbalism, we'll go to like
(05:48):
herbal skill.
Nowadays there's tons of onlinecourses.
When I first started thatwasn't really the case.
Or a book, right?
The other way is like you lookat a book, you see a plant, you
learn about it, and so when,with these traditions that are
like still living in deeprelationship with the plants,
there is no transmission likewritten.
(06:11):
Everything is orally transmittedand it's also a transmission
like from the plant to you.
Of course, you have theseelders who are both gatekeepers,
which I think is important tohonor and respect that we do
need gatekeepers in these spaces, but they are also translators
and for us to understand, likethe spirit talk of the plants,
(06:34):
right, and so they don't reallylike give us a manuscript, like
okay, your plant that you'redieting is going to do this.
It's more of this living,breathing thing that is teaching
you.
And so I call these plants likethe living library, because
they're not written about oftenin books.
Now you see here and therethings popping up, but they're
(06:56):
truly downloading theirinformation to you like you
would read it in a book, justthrough this, like energetic
transmission and livedexperience, if that makes sense.
That's why I call it that, andI feel like the plants told me
this many years ago, like thisis what we are.
We are the living library.
You can go to university, youcan get your PhD and study all
(07:18):
about plants, but this is alsoanother way to study the plants
in a very deep way, and this isa different type of university,
if you will.
Jenee (07:27):
Wow, I love that.
Before we get into the rose,I'm really curious, like how you
were drawn to South America andwere you working initially with
with herbs and plants in theStates and just curious how you
ended up on your on your journey.
Kat (07:46):
Yeah, it was a long and winding one.
Looking back, everything makessense.
But I really started workingwith plants through agriculture,
so I studied sustainable foodsystems, agroecology and
international development incollege so I very much focused
(08:10):
in the sustainable food systemsaspect of things and through
that I found agroecology, whichis a social, a political and an
environmental movement aroundfood, food scapes and the people
involved in those, and so food,foodscapes and the people
involved in those and soobviously growing food and
growing herbs in that context isvery embedded in a lifestyle.
(08:32):
It's like very holistic way ofseeing things.
And then I really realizedquickly that I just like growing
food.
So I quickly like You're like, Iwant to be a farmer.
Yeah, truly.
I found my way to communitygardens quite quickly,
educational spaces mainly, andthen I started farming, and that
is how I found my way to Peru.
(08:53):
I was fascinated by the highaltitude agricultural systems
that the descendants of theIncans farm, so I made my way to
the Sacred Valley and just fellin love with it.
It was definitely a spirit,like a spirit connection with
the place.
Yeah, I couldn't see it all atthe time, and so that was when I
(09:14):
was 21 years old I went to theSacred Valley of Peru the first
time, and about two years laterI finally found a way to move
down there.
So at that point I was already.
Jenee (09:22):
I finally found a way to move down there.
Kat (09:23):
So at that point I was already farming and I just
became incredibly fascinatedwith the wild edibles and wild
medicinals.
That just through observation,I was learning from the Andean
women farmers, like watchingthem.
Yes, they had some farminggoing on, but they are totally
in this, like deep relationshipwith the landscape.
(09:46):
And so I started to observe,learn, ask questions and I was
working.
I was part of the foundinggroup of a nonprofit doing high
altitude agricultural projects,so that's how I was exposed to
all these women and I was reallyon the ground and so you know I
was still into the agriculture,I was also growing food there,
(10:07):
but I kind of just like bywatching this magic in front of
me and you know, learning fromthe women how they bathe like
the babies the first time, androses and plants and all these
things.
I was just like wow this wholeworld just burst open for me.
I start, I don't speak Quechualike fluently by any means, but
(10:30):
I started to understand certainelements so I could communicate
with a lot of the women thatdon't speak Spanish even, and a
lot of it was just throughobservation them showing me
things and really spending a lotof time immersed in the
highlands up there in the highaltitude communities.
And then, yeah, long storyshort, I ended up like back in
(10:53):
the States for some yearsfarming and just slowly realized
, as I started to make medicinefor myself with friends just for
fun, that the herbalism, andthen soon after that, the really
spiritual side of it, was whatcalled me and then, I was.
I was living in the sacredValley for many years, so
(11:14):
naturally, I found my way to theplant medicine.
Jenee (11:17):
Yes, yes.
Kat (11:19):
That was a long, long story , thank you.
Jenee (11:21):
That was amazing, I knew you had.
I was like a long, long story,thank you.
That was amazing, I knew youhad.
I was like I cannot wait tohear about your, the depth of
your education and your.
Just sitting with you in thefirst week of of the dieta, I
felt so much knowledge and liketransmission coming off of you.
I was like, ah, I can't wait toto learn more about you, know
(11:46):
your path and your history,cause I knew it was really deep.
Kat (11:50):
Oh, thank you.
Jenee (11:51):
Yeah.
So maybe let's stay on this,this route of like the evolution
and and how you know the sacredplant medicines really kind of
evolved in your life and and ledyou to the path now of being in
service and facilitatingmedicine.
Kat (12:13):
Yeah, any specifics you want me to just share away?
Jenee (12:17):
Yeah, like I just would love to hear a little bit about
your evolution and you know,kind of from from farming down
there into like starting to workwith the mother.
You know Madre and um let's see.
Kat (12:35):
Well, I can go back to the very early stages.
The whole reason I got intofood and farming.
One my mom's, whole side of mymom's family is in farming um my
grandfather was a cattlerancher.
All of my mom's brothers werein farming, were and are, and so
(12:58):
I think it was a little bit inmy blood.
The plants, the connectionplants my grandmother was an
herbalist Also.
I have come to understand mygreat, great grandmother, so it
all kind of makes sense.
But my mother had breast cancertwice when I was a kid and then
my sister had some likepsychological stuff going on,
(13:20):
and so from an early age I wasjust kind of like, okay, I want
to find a way to always behealthy and vibrant and thriving
and have tools to deal with allthe things that happen in life,
right?
Jenee (13:37):
Yeah.
Kat (13:38):
So I found my way into farming just through my
obsession with food and soilhealth and I did a lot of
studying around, like pesticidesand their impact on human
health, and so quickly I kind ofwent into that world and that,
I think, really framed a lot ofmy interest in going into
(13:59):
herbalism, which then led me tothe plant medicine, because it
was food and it was herbs forhealing.
But it was really this biggerholistic picture around like how
do we live our lives in morewellness and more vibrancy and
in more sovereignty, where wehave choices over what goes into
(14:20):
our food, what goes into oursoil, what goes into our bodies.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm notagainst like the Western
medical model either.
I think it's.
I think all things weavetogether.
But I was like I want to havemore choices and that drove me
into the herbalism.
So that was more like therational minded me, you know.
(14:42):
The rational minded me, youknow.
But at the same time, I thinkonce I hit the ground in Peru, I
realized that our entirecontext of the Western culture
just didn't make sense to me.
And from a very young age.
I was just kind of confused.
Jenee (14:58):
But didn't know why.
Kat (15:00):
I grew up in California.
Everything seemed normal, it'sbeautiful, but I was just like I
don't fit in here.
I was born here.
I don't understand how thingswork Like societal constructions
, just like they didn't makesense to me.
Understood them, but I was likeI don't get it and I think you
know I went into competitivesports.
(15:22):
I was like a high, highachieving student and all of
that was just like me.
Jenee (15:28):
Numbing is what I realized Totally.
Kat (15:31):
Yeah, like realized I was numbing out.
Because I was super sensitiveand interested in things.
My soul was drawn to thingsthat didn't make sense or
weren't valued in our culture.
Jenee (15:43):
Yep.
Kat (15:43):
So when I got to Peru, I was like, oh, this whole
worldview of being inrelationship with nature, like
there is no connection, and evenI mean you hear this term, aini
, thrown around a lot these daysthis idea of sacred reciprocity
, it is truly like just one ofmany terms that defines the
(16:06):
culture in the Andean region,where it's just this like give
and take and it's really trulylike you're in.
It's not just like, oh, let'slike make an offering to the
earth before we take something.
It's like this deeprelationship you're in with the
earth and all living things.
that is informing, like how wemove through the world and in
(16:28):
honoring and in almost like apraying, you know, and a deep,
spiraling interaction.
So I'm probably getting alittle off course here, but it's
all good, we can weave howeverwe want.
Yeah, I think, though I willlike rein it back in and stay,
(16:51):
because I could go on for hours.
You know, I really whathappened was I had a breaking
point in this culture, in theWestern culture, where I was
just I hit a limit.
I hurt myself really badly incompetitive sports because I
wasn't nourishing my soul.
You, know, it was just push,push, push, nom nom nom super
(17:13):
intense in school and my soulthe way I see it and describe
now was like my soul was likedying.
You know what I mean.
It wasn't being fed, it wasn'tbeing nourished.
Everything on the outsidelooked beautiful and I was like
dying inside and I didn't knowhow to describe it, so I didn't
(17:35):
know how to get help, you know.
I was like I don't know whatthis feeling I'm having is.
I couldn't even put words to it.
It wasn't until I drank plantmedicine that I understood.
And so I did start on myspiritual journey with yoga.
Like from 18, I was practicingthe physical asana, and then in
(17:56):
college I started to get moreinto the spiritual side, but I
really didn't connect to it thatdeeply.
So it was like my soul wassearching for something.
And then by the time I got toPeru, I was still, you know,
working very hard, long hours,trying to prove something.
I had a.
(18:16):
Our organization had aconnection with universities, so
I was still trying to like fitin this construct, but I
everything was just kind of likecrumbling around me.
And um, I think I got to a point.
I call, I tell people like I Iwas like scraping rock bottom in
the sense of like.
Again everything looked great,but I was just like my soul was
(18:41):
withering and I had been to manyceremonies at this point, but
nothing with plant medicine Ihad been to like many um Kero
and Quechua style ceremoniesthat are just woven into the
fabric of everyday life andintentionally attending ones,
but a lot of them just in thefarming communities likeago a la
(19:05):
pacha, payments to mother earth, things that despachos and
different types of ceremoniesthat they do to ask for
permission or like when weharvest you would go and you
know, make a payment, have afeast for mother earth, and then
there's like communal work days, and so I had been in all these
rhythms but I was like I needsomething more and I felt like
(19:31):
the plants were already healingme just the gentle herbs and the
wild weeds, and I was likeyou know, still in this very
logical mindset, like this storyhas to be told, I have to write
a book, write a paper, I don'tknow, get funding to tell this
story about these women andtheir plants and their medicinal
(19:51):
.
And then I was like no, that isjust rewriting the story of
extractionism, Like what is thatgoing to do?
Now, looking back, I'm likeokay, that might have been an
extreme viewpoint.
Also, it could have fed a lotof beautiful things.
Jenee (20:07):
Yeah.
Kat (20:08):
At that point I was very like anti, you know.
I was like going there, I swunglike very far in the other
direction.
Jenee (20:14):
Yeah.
Kat (20:16):
And from what I knew and was born into, and so I slowly
just made my way towardsgrandmother medicine.
A friend invited me to aceremony.
My first ceremony was not inthe jungle, it was in the Sacred
Valley with a teacher who isnow passed but has still a
beautiful legacy of starting oneof, like, the strongest
(20:38):
medicine communities in thevalley, and I sat in a full moon
ceremony in this beautifultemple where the moonlight was
streaming through.
Jenee (20:50):
Wow.
I was totally unaware of what Iwas getting myself into.
Kat (20:56):
You know, I was like my friends had been inviting me and
I was just kind of like I didno research.
Jenee (21:02):
Yeah, I didn't know?
Kat (21:04):
Yeah, you know, my first ceremony was the same.
I had no research.
Jenee (21:06):
Yeah, I didn't know.
Yeah, you know, my firstceremony was the same.
I had no clue.
Showed up Like what.
Kat (21:10):
Drank a juice right before, like no idea.
I mean like in Peru you can goto the market and just drink,
like a fresh juice of fruit andveggies, but still like I had
zero idea, yeah, and I was justlike okay, but still like I had
zero idea.
Yeah, and I was just like okay.
I asked a friend to come withme and I went with some other
friends who were very deep inthe path, who I had come to love
(21:31):
and find as guides, and I wentand it was the most beautiful
experience of my entire life Iam.
This was 14 years ago and I'mstill unpacking my first
ceremony, Like I was justobviously there were scary parts
, yeah, and there were reallyintense parts, but I just went
(21:54):
in with full surrender because Ireally had no idea.
Wow blew my heart open andshowed me so many things that it
just rewove the entire fabricof my life and how I moved
through the world.
After that it was like I openeda door and I couldn't go back,
and I know a lot of people havescary first experiences.
(22:17):
I think it was just like and itwas very physical, very visual,
very everything but I was justthere for it and it was like I
felt like I was home.
Jenee (22:29):
Yeah.
Kat (22:30):
I didn't know what was happening, but I was like
there's snakes like riding in mybody, but that's cool, like
we're going with it, you know.
And I was just like this iswhat's supposed to happen.
It felt like the most naturalthing ever.
Jenee (22:42):
Wow, the most natural thing ever.
Wow, I know I think back to myfirst ceremony and, um, it was
in Brazil and, uh, I would sayend of a two week healing
training that I was doing withmy teacher and her husband is,
he serves there and is awell-known musician in Brazil
(23:03):
and I think if I would haveknown what I was getting into, I
would not, I don't think Iwould have sat for one and I
think I would have been likescared.
I mean there would have justbeen so many things kind of
placed on it that I would nothave been able to meet what
(23:24):
everything that I met that nightwith full, like surrender, and
same thing like I felt once youopen that door, like you know,
and it's a very, it's a veryhard one to close, and, yeah, I
mean the world of the world ofplant medicines is especially
(23:45):
the Madre.
It's like there's no words.
I mean the amount of healingthat I've received from that
medicine like, and the amount ofmagic and how it's weaving
through my life, it's.
You know, I would love to talka little bit more about this and
(24:06):
then maybe we can talk a bitabout, like, the ethic, the
ethical part of of sitting withplant medicine and the
reciprocity and stuff like that.
But I want to hear more aboutyour journey from that moment on
.
Kat (24:25):
Yeah, wow, how to describe it.
Jenee (24:30):
There's no words.
Kat (24:32):
I'm still on it.
Like I said, it changed theentire direction of my life, but
I didn't even realize it.
I mean, for sure, I came out ofthe ceremony being like, wow, I
just reframed.
You know reframed andredirected, but didn't mean that
it was all like rainbows andbutterflies.
It was a long road to today,but I mean I just kept coming
(24:55):
back.
Really, I realized that myrelationships needed adjustment.
The biggest relationship was myrelationship to myself yeah you
know, and that's some a theme Isee over and over, it's so
simple, it's just self-love,like that is like at the root of
so many of these things thatthen seed into bigger things in
(25:16):
our lives.
But so I went on that journeyand I continue.
You know, I ended up going tothe jungle and, like I said, my
first teachers were Shipibo andI really loved that.
That journey, that deep, deep,deep inside journey and into the
depths and the shadows, and wasso inspired by this, this plant
(25:37):
spirit world that they workedwith.
It's not just the grandmothermedicine.
It's so many different thingsand this whole idea of, like I
said, this living library, like,oh, these lived, immersive
experiences with the plants, itfinally made sense to me.
Plants have spirits.
We can speak to them, they canguide us, they can heal us and
(25:58):
we're in constant reciprocalrelationship with them.
And it's not just like they canheal us and we're in constant
reciprocal relationship withthem, and it's not just like
what can I get from taking thisthing or putting it in on and
around me, but truly like whatcan I do to feed this
relationship back and forth?
and beyond and spiraling in alldirections.
And again, not just about me andmy relationship with
(26:21):
grandmother or the other plants.
What about the ones that openedthis world to me and are the
true like wisdom holders, youknow, and that is an element I
feel is missing in many journeys, and I think it's just the
nature of our, the culture whichwe are raised in, and I'm
(26:41):
seeing shifts.
But, um, so yeah, the shipibo,you know, went to the jungle,
spent a lot of time there was,coming back and forth between
always living in the valley, andthen I will say I got to a
point where I was like, okay, myhealing's done, like I'm done,
that was fun, that was fun, thatwas a fun little phase.
Anyways, time to go, you know.
(27:04):
And so I made my way, actuallylived in Denmark for about two
years.
I fell in love and made my waythere and I was still in the
herbalism and permaculture worldbut I was like, okay, that was
a nice journey, you know.
Yeah, little did I know it wasjust getting started and so I
(27:31):
tried to kind of like push thatpart away.
But, like I said earlier, onceyou open this door, especially
once you start like dietingplants, it's not like something
you do and have an experienceand then you go away.
If you really go deep into it,it's a path, it's a lifestyle.
So I soon started having dreamsthat I like, over and over and
(27:52):
over, for about six months,tried to ignore them, but it was
several different things.
One was of energies in thevalley, some of the Apus
mountains I worked with, andsome was this woman standing in
the forest like beckoning me,and I was like, okay, it's
grandmother, it's Madre, likeshe wants me to come.
She was like come home, comehome.
(28:12):
And I was thinking, okay, stillthinking like this is just about
my personal journey.
And then I finally listened,because I went to a Reiki
session and the woman was like,hey, I just had these two images
and it was the same dream Ikept having so I was like, okay,
I'm going to Peru, I booked myticket and I ended up moving
(28:34):
back, um, but the funny thing isI did not know why I was there
or where I was going to sit.
I didn't feel called to go tothe jungle, to the the Amazon in
Peru.
So I sat there in the Valleyand I was like I just gave up
this whole life, like what am I?
What am I doing here?
You know it was, and there waslike she just kind of like
(28:55):
stretched it out, like are youwilling to trust?
You know?
And this one didn't go to anyceremonies.
I was like when it's the moment, I will be, I will know.
Jenee (29:05):
Wow.
Kat (29:05):
And I was invited by many people and I was just like, okay
, stay steady.
I almost lost it and just likewent back to California, but
right before that happened.
I met my my now husband, Wow Um, and we didn't meet.
Through the medicine I waslooking for a home and I walked
into his house where he had somespaces rented and to rent and
(29:28):
he was watching a video of theHuni Queen.
Wow, Because he was workingwith different leaders in the
Brazilian.
Amazon, and so we quicklyobviously connected.
We didn't really talk aboutmedicine.
We just watched the videostogether and it was like obvious
(29:52):
that we were both on this path.
And then, not long after that,he brought a group of Huni Queen
and we had started dating.
And so I was helping with theretreat, and I mean from there.
I ended up going to Brazil,going into very deep
relationship with Huni QueenShananawa Sambarinawa Yawanawa
teachers.
Jenee (30:11):
Wow.
Kat (30:12):
Mainly Huni Queen.
And then our teachers were kindof like.
They were like you know,francisco, my partner, he had
already been working one-on-onewith people.
At that point I wasn't serving,I had worked in spaces, I had
been in service but I wasn'tserving.
And our teachers are basicallylike this is like now's the time
(30:33):
for you to like carry this intoplaces.
We can't go so okay.
We've done a tour with um tour,with the Huni Queen, all over
the US, a three-month tour.
We take community to Dieta inAmazon, in Peru.
We've gone down to Vivencias inBrazil and over time, and
(30:56):
especially during the pandemic,they were like you carry this
altar, you know so actually ouraltar is a weaving of different
teachers and different lineages.
That what works in the UnitedStates or works for Westerners,
(31:22):
even if they come to like we didhave a retreat center in the
Sacred Valley to us is there'slike a step before going to the
Amazon for some people.
And so we weave this likebeautiful altar.
That is a style.
It has Shipibo elements andthen it has the Brazilian like
Huni Queen, kashina Wa elementsin it as well.
(31:43):
So yeah, it's an interestingmix.
But we bring a lot of like thatmessage of joy, of alegría, of
taking personal responsibilityfor your journey and community
into the space, because I saw onmy path like so many people get
lost just in like the like muckof their personal journey and
(32:10):
also a lot of people get stuckin the shadow and can't get out.
So we found this way to likeweave everything so that we can
help guide and like lift theenergy, because I really feel
like both community and and umjoy are two things that our
culture is missing.
Jenee (32:28):
Absolutely so.
When you're now offering umceremony with your husband, um,
you're bringing these elementsin and then what's your?
Do you have kind of like a pre,like a, like a pre um, uh, what
do I want to say?
Kat (32:48):
Um, like a prep preparation period where you're, you know,
working with, like certainelements of the plant and then
the plant and then, or if it'sjust more like group group work
and yeah, we have a lot ofdifferent ways we work um,
everything we do has a deeppreparation process.
(33:10):
We know the name of everyperson that sits with us.
We work small groups orone-on-one privates and we do a
lot of preparation aroundunderstanding what it is, the
context, understanding whysomeone is coming to us, and
that helps us understand how towork with them, both in ceremony
(33:32):
and then the bigger containerof like coming in and coming out
.
So there's like a lot of thatpre-work that happens.
Then, of course, we have ourceremonial container and then we
have a lot of integrationsupport as well.
Some of that is built in, nomatter what, if you come to an
(33:54):
experience with us.
And then we have additionalprograms that we offer people,
like my dietas or with plantslike rose or rosemary or
calendula or something gentle.
That is a really powerfulintegrative tool and also helps
people understand this wholeworld.
(34:14):
Or it's more concrete tools,rituals, practices that are very
tailored to someone's processand what they're going for.
So we go really deep withpeople.
Our journey over the years hasbeen smaller, more focused, like
that's kind of what we've cometo, and then particular
(34:35):
individuals who really want towalk this path.
We will take them for likedieta or to a viventia,
depending, like there'sdifferent paths in the medicine,
like you well know, and so it'slike whatever fits an
individual's needs journey wherethey're at everything.
Jenee (34:53):
Absolutely.
Wow.
That's so fascinating.
How did you and your husbandend up moving back to the States
?
Did you feel that call from thetime you were working with the
tribes?
Kat (35:08):
Yeah, I mean, the first step was when we did the tour In
2022, we did a tour with theHuni Queen, a three-month tour
all over the States and then wemoved back to Peru and we
previously had been running aretreat space in Peru and from
(35:29):
about 20, 20, 20, or like 2018to 2019 was like group stuff.
Then, you know, the pandemichappened.
We were here and also in Peruand after the pandemic we opened
a retreat space in Peru andpeople were coming to us that
fed into this tour and werealized that we had so many
(35:52):
people we had served medicine toin the United States that were
lacking support, community orwanted to go deeper on the path.
And we also saw that a lot ofthe communities we had visited
didn't really contain or hold orcontextualize for people.
It was just like people go to aceremony, I don't know,
(36:14):
sometimes rooted in tradition,sometimes not yes.
And then you're just on your own.
You know, and there's, I sayit's like the US is like the
Wild West, absolutely Of thisspace, and so we were just like,
okay, we had built a solidcommunity.
And while many people werecoming to us in Peru, we also
felt like we need to be therefor follow up.
(36:37):
We need to, we want to, we feelvery called to be um going
deeper and that I also believethe us needs some really big
healing right now yeah or thewestern world in general, and
then, um, just that in-personfollow-up and the ability to
(36:58):
reach greater community andbring some context to this space
, because both of us have livedin Peru for on and off, for over
10 years, and these things docome from traditions, they do
come from beautiful lineages andfrom people, from humans and
environments that I believe weshould continue linking these
(37:20):
traditions and rituals to andthat was a big part of our
message too.
Jenee (37:25):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like the reciprocity aspect and the
deepening of of peopleunderstanding, you know what
what this relationship truly isum with with any of the
Amazonian plants, and I findmyself, like, since I started
(37:45):
working with plant medicine,like I'm trying to heal deeply.
It's like I don't I don't wantto say like the colonizer, but
they're that voracious, like oneway stream.
That I feel like is thementality of, you know, the
(38:09):
Western world, and especiallywith the United States, and I'm
meeting myself constantly inthat space of like one being
like how can I be in morereciprocity, like, how can I be
more reciprocity with the earth?
How can I be more in morereciprocity with the medicine
(38:30):
that we serve and you know, andthe tribe that we receive that
medicine from?
Like how can I heal this?
Because some days it just feelslike it's daunting that feeling
inside, and I catch myselfoften and I feel like it's the
(38:50):
nature of the I don't want tosay matrix, but it's the nature
of the way this system is set up.
It's the nature of the way thissystem is set up.
So, yeah, I myself have reallystarted to heal and I feel like
there's so much that needs tohappen around healing that.
(39:13):
You know that relationship andI don't know if you want to
speak to that and maybe some oflike the ethics of receiving
medicine and reciprocity.
Kat (39:27):
Yeah, I mean I feel you 100% that, like I call it, like
the extraction mindset, yeah, soclear, and especially because I
lived away from here for solong and away from the United
States and I will say saywhatever you want about other
countries, whatever everyone hastheir opinions, but I found in
(39:50):
Denmark and Europe at least thethe circles I moved through so
much more of a communal mindsetyeah that I really um, I see a
desire, like a thirst for theUnited States, but there's this
like extraction, where I, you'relike, I see it all the time you
engage with someone or you comeinto a situation and it's so
subconscious.
(40:11):
I don't want to judge peoplebecause it and I, I see it in
myself and I'm always, like yousaid, working.
It is this idea of what can Iget from this?
Yes.
Or you can watch in someonelike as they're learning
something instead of being inlike full relationship and truly
learning and embodying it.
(40:33):
It's like they think they'redoing that, but in the mind is
already like how can I talkabout this in my class?
Jenee (40:40):
I'm going to teach later my social media.
How can I make money off this?
Kat (40:44):
Yeah, flip and sell and again like with so much
compassion because it's sodeeply embedded in our
subconscious, and I think that'sreally scary, though, when you
get into the medicine or healingspace in general, but it's also
a really big topic, and so I'llspeak like a few things.
(41:06):
But of course, you know, therewas a time in my life where I
was like, well, everythingshould be for free.
And then there was a time in mylife where I was like only you
know, indigenous wisdom holders.
I do hear that rhetoric and Ihonor it and I actually really
value where it's coming from.
Only indigenous wisdom holdersshould carry these medicines,
(41:30):
you know.
Or even like what I do with therose yeah, I really really sat
with that because the rose is mymost popular public one I work
with.
I work with many plants, butwe're in this rose container
together and it's not the sameat all.
Like I said, it's a plant spiritimmersion, but I do use the
word dieta.
I really have sat with that andI actually took almost all of
(41:54):
last year off after coming outof two dietas in the Amazon to
be like how do I walk this pathin integrity?
And is this like really steppingback to see if I was in
integrity, despite the fact that, like one of my Huni Queen
teachers, she was like let's dothis.
(42:15):
Obviously I didn't do all thefacilitation, but she took my
rose medicine.
We would do like ceremoniestogether.
She was like loving it.
You know and she it openedthings for her, then she opened
things for me.
So, um, despite all of that,you know, and so I was, like I
really have been always in, inthinking like how can I be in
(42:35):
reciprocity, how can I be inlike an ethical carrier of these
medicines, these ways, even ifyou don't serve, like all of
these traditions?
Should we even have access tothese things, you know, outside
of the Amazon or as Westernersin general, like are we doing
good or are we damaging?
(42:56):
Like so many questions, and Iwill say, like my husband's from
South America, so that has beena really beautiful place of
learning and growing and a safespace for me to ask questions
and also to access.
Like I have had way more accessto the roots of these cultures
(43:19):
because he is like a trustedbridge.
We always talk like he's likemy bridge to the indigenous
wisdom holders in the Amazon oreven in the Andes, and I'm like
his bridge to the Westernculture.
Beautiful and it's like thisbeautiful weaving, and so I'm
really grateful that that hasgiven me the perspectives and
(43:40):
the learnings it has, and also Ifeel like the confidence to
speak about this stuff because,um, but yeah, I think just
sitting in the sitting withmedicines like watch, you are
the grandmother, or or othermedicines, you know, other
expansive medicines they in andof themselves you're truly
(44:02):
coming for your healing.
They're going to show you thesethings.
And then my thing is like to bein ethical relationship and
integrity, like are you going tolisten to that If it means you
have to change things about howyou move through the world?
If anything as simple as askinga space holder, can I touch
(44:23):
your altar, can I share thissong?
That is like an ancient healingchant with my friend, or having
that, and I think a lot of uscome to that and we know deep
inside of us that we should ask,but we don't have that mindset.
So the first and simplest thingI always invite people when
(44:44):
they're working.
This is like ask, you know askfor permission you know just
like when you harvest a plant inthe, in the wild or in your
garden.
You ask and it's not always ayes and like can you, as an
adult, handle that you?
Can.
You say, okay, you know whatit's a no, and it might hurt my
(45:06):
ego because I don't understandand I'm in process, it might
make me get all like grumpy.
But instead of going in thatdirection, maybe ask why you
know why why not, and can youteach me more about this?
Jenee (45:19):
that's one thing.
Kat (45:20):
I really dedicate myself to is, and I I see that the
teachers in Amazon.
If you have good teachers, theywill teach you too.
If you ask why, why do you dothis, is this okay If I share?
How can I work with this inrespect?
You know, like tobacco is oneplant that I think shows this
(45:43):
whole thing in a really big andobvious way.
This whole imbalance that wehave Tobacco in and of itself
and this may trigger some peopleis not bad.
It's a powerful healing spirit.
It's a very, very powerfulspirit Very powerful.
Deeply healing plant and it hasa spirit, a very strong spirit,
(46:07):
and that's one thing like partof why I do this plant spirit
work is to invite people to seeevery plant has a spirit.
So let's look at this Like if aplant has a spirit and tobacco
is a big master plant in everyhealing tradition around the
world.
It's just like grandfather,elder energy protection.
(46:28):
It opens clarity.
It's like I call it themedicine of immediate truth,
like all the bullshit.
My language is boom.
I love it my language, just boom, I love it.
So look, we see in the Westernculture, people you know be like
if you smoke tobacco you'll dieof lung cancer, blah blah.
It's like okay, well one, let'sbreak this down.
(46:55):
First, we're mixing a bunch ofstuff with this tobacco.
It's not grown in a way wherewe're honoring the earth yeah
then we're inhaling it into ourbody.
Every culture that works withthese.
You do not take it into yourlungs.
Yeah, blow the, the smoke out.
And so that is like we'retaking, we're trying to like,
take the spirit like intoourselves, and it's a really big
spirit, so of course it's we'renot respecting it, so of course
(47:19):
it's wreaking havoc on oursystems, right, and so the
problem is not the plant, theproblem is our relationship to
the plant and this idea that wecan just take it, use it, sell
it, and it's like the individualis just a part of this bigger
construct.
But somewhere along the way,that respect got lost and that
(47:41):
extractive mindset put us wherewe are now.
And so you can imagine how manylayers of unlearning get to
happen, and it's so easy to getlost in that.
Well, they did it to us.
It's like we're not victimsonce we know we can do something
and I see that with themedicine space, you know like
pulling it back in.
(48:01):
Yeah, you know, do you havepermission?
If you are serving these things, are you doing your own work?
One like I said, if you'redoing your own work, you're
going to first and foremostyou're going to see these things
.
There's no ignoring them, andyou have a teacher that's going
to guide you.
I know everyone's like I'm myown shaman and I'm like.
(48:23):
My partner actually said this,so this is his quote and I was
like I love this.
He's like I'm not my own shaman.
I have my teachers.
I have my teachers, my guides,my elders, my wisdom holders,
because they help me walk thepath of integrity, understand
what is in alignment for my souland help me sense, make and see
(48:47):
things I can't see, and I am sograteful to have that.
So it's like seeking theguidance of those who have
walked before us, honoring that,also, knowing that people are
human.
So, you know, not going intothat like let's put everyone on
a pedestal and whatever they sayis.
Is it Because that's?
a dicey area we get into whenpeople also try to work in
(49:10):
reciprocity, like giving ourpower away, like an alignment
and integrity, understandingyour truth when you're doing
your work and then asking forpermission.
Giving back so easy.
There's so many ways to giveback.
It doesn't have to be justmonetarily.
Jenee (49:28):
Yes.
Kat (49:29):
Art, music, sharing, taking community to the roots, always
honoring your teachers when youdo serve these things, knowing
as someone who does servemedicine too, with honoring your
teachers when you do servethese things, knowing as someone
who does serve medicine too,like with discernment when is it
okay to be like no, this isn'tfor you yet.
(49:54):
You know, not because someonewants something and they're
willing to pay us for it.
Do we give and that's part ofwhy like, for example, the rose
diet, to these soft dietas?
I'm like these are beautifulopportunities for people to
understand.
Is this even a path I want togo down?
Or can I receive so muchbeautiful healing messages,
guidance, life giving,nourishment from the plants all
(50:15):
around me and that's truly justperfect for me?
You know not saying this isn'tfor you, but why don't we do
this?
This is beautiful andlife-giving and nourishing and
context building.
And then if you want to keepgoing like, let's go here, and
if not, there's a myriad of waysyou can go.
Jenee (50:34):
Yes.
Kat (50:35):
That is not down the down the like big expansive medicine
paths.
Jenee (50:40):
Yeah, I love.
Just coming back to the dieta,finally, and like it's powerful
medicine, Like Rose, that, wow.
You know I was thinking thisweek I've been thinking about it
because I feel like I Maybe mefive years ago, more numbed out,
(51:08):
wouldn't have been able to bein communion with the plant
right now in the way that I am,but the first two days she blew
me open.
I was like everything's sobeautiful, beautiful, Thank you.
(51:29):
I was like thank you, thank you, thank you, like, like weeping
at, like the beauty of the world, my, um, my subtle nervous
system and the places I'vereally wanted to sit with myself
(51:53):
and haven't.
Like, there's like a littlebuzz constantly going on with me
and and part of it also is likecaffeine and I stopped like
drinking caffeine alongside.
So, um, yeah, I feel like it'sinteresting.
I'm wondering if, like me fiveyears ago, wouldn't have really
(52:14):
been able to like fully, um,have that kind of transformation
from, from the medicine.
Kat (52:20):
Yeah, that's a great point.
First, just loving everythingyou shared.
Um, first just lovingeverything you shared.
Yes, it's just like Rose islike this beautiful cocoon of
love and nourishment, and it'strue.
I think what you say is verytrue.
I mean, it's hard for someonewho has never sat with plants,
(52:44):
and even these expansive plantsor medicines that open us up, to
be able to commune with thesesubtle spirits or understand
like what it even is.
It can be hard for someone tohave as deep of an experience as
you're having and I will say,at the same time, they have it.
(53:04):
If that makes sense, it's justthe awareness or the real-time
awareness of it may not alwaysbe present.
It may be like a reflectionover years where they start to
realize, or it may be that theyget like one big deep thing from
it.
But I will say that's why it'sso important to have a guide
(53:26):
especially if you don't workwith other plants and these big
I call them the big expanderswhich, to your point, also with
the nervous system we are like,so addicted in our society to
these big expansive experiencesand subtlety.
There's so much healing in thesubtle, especially I mean for me
(53:48):
.
I'm really passionate aboutthis for women.
Jenee (53:50):
Yeah.
Kat (53:51):
Like and like what is serving you and what time in
your life you know andespecially as space holders,
when we are in these bigexpansive medicines so often,
how can we support and nourishourselves?
Because even if we feel like,yeah, we're in the flow, because
we see all this, like ourbody's like wait, like why is
(54:12):
everything so big all the time?
And this embeds this like deeptensions that we don't even
realize are there.
And another beautiful andfavorite quote by my partner is
like between one and a hundred,there's 99 different levels,
right, Even with our grandmother.
Like some of my favoriteexperiences have been like the
(54:32):
small and deepest have been thesmallest amounts.
Jenee (54:35):
Me too.
Kat (54:36):
So that's where these yeah, you get it these something like
the rose dieta, for example, Ihave worked with a lot of you
know.
Usually I do, actually in fullhonesty, usually I work with
women with the rose yet to Ibelieve it's for everyone, but
that just seems to be who likecomes to me and how I channeled
the, the spirit, immersion partof it, which is these deepening
(55:00):
exercises and embodimentpractices and um towards the
feminine body.
And I have had people where theyare calling me every day,
texting me, because when I workone-on-one we have a very deep
dive, one-on-one calls, so we'rein like constant communication
and I'll have women say to meyou know, kat, I'm not feeling
(55:23):
anything or I don't know if thisis working and it's.
I'm like, just keep showing up,just keep going to your altar
every day, drink the tea, do theexercises.
I promise something ishappening.
But then I start to ask themquestions just to kind of like
see and show them so they candiscover it themselves, because
(55:44):
I can see it working.
But, no one wants someone totell you like well, I see the
softening around your eyes orthe change in the way you write
the text, or this or that or thethings you're talking about, or
the fact that you just told meyou offered your tea to the tree
in the morning these thingsthat you would have never.
(56:06):
I've never heard you say, andpeople even will say, like well,
I did walk by this wall andthere was like a mural of the
rose and I'm like that's it.
Or I had a conversation withsomeone and it was much more
easeful than I expected and I'mlike that's the rose or whatever
plant you're working with, likethat is the plant working.
(56:26):
It just isn't what we expect itto be.
So that's the entry point whereI think having a guide is
really beautiful, where you canstart to like tease that out for
someone and be like I know youhave no idea what it should look
like and also everyone'sexperience looks different and I
know I told you what it maylook like.
(56:47):
But once you start talking aboutwhat's happening at work, in
your lived experience becausethese are experiences in
everyday life we can starttogether to be like oh for you,
this is how Rose speaks to you,or these are the subtle changes
that are happening and sometimesthey lead to big, expansive
(57:08):
things and other times not, andif nothing else, just this act
of coming into ritual at leastonce a day at an altar drinking
a tea, the act of bathing andlike just gifting yourself that
moment, even if you don't feellike the plant coming into you
or ever feel like the spiritspeaks to you, just gifting
(57:31):
yourself that sacred pause, isactually building a very solid
habit and context for connectingto the sacred and the visible,
and that in of itself is huge,for me If that's all someone
gets out of it yet to, becausethat can shift the entire fabric
(57:53):
of somebody's life.
If they never pause, or neverspeak a kind word or make a bath
for themselves, or somethingyou know you would, you would be
surprised.
It makes me sad, but so oftenit's just like even that is huge
and we forget that when we'reso deep on these like spiritual
(58:14):
paths.
you know, that and that's why Icontinue offering these things,
these gentle plant ally accesspoints and my plant spirit,
herbal medicine, because I'mlike, like everyone deserves to
access these things totally andnot everyone is ready or wants
to come sit in a big plantmedicine ceremony, and those
(58:36):
people that maybe take atincture or an essence or sign
up for the dieta even thoughthey don't know what they're
doing, those are the people thatare like probably one need it
the most and two like, if we canshift that every person I feel
like I touch, like they touch anentire community and a family,
(58:59):
and then, of course, people likeyou, who is like you're, a
medicine woman.
It's like, when you have thesedeep, profound experiences,
imagine one, what it, what it'sdoing for you, and then, like
our, we get to connect and makea row.
It's like this I always say,it's like this collective
rosebush we're always ontogether, once we, once I work
with someone, but then imagine,like, how it ripples into your
(59:19):
relationship with your husband,with your mother, like with
everything the people you workwith.
Jenee (59:25):
Oh, it's amazing.
The plants I know.
It's like really amazing howmuch it's really like integrated
a lot of my big journeys Likevery interesting in the last two
weeks and I've done a lot oflike heart opening medicine, but
(01:00:11):
like just something this subtleand daily and just that thing
like I'm constantly takingcareand the bath like so luxurious.
Like just yesterday I did thebath, or it was Monday I did the
second bath and like justhaving the rose like in my hair
and like, oh, it's so luxuriousand I just go to sleep like with
(01:00:32):
my hair wet and it's been,she's really held me and I'm
realizing how much I really needto deeply take care of myself
in the spaces that I, whetherit's just coming to my altar
every day, you know, um, and Ithink even more as, like you
(01:00:55):
know, we know things are goingto get crazier too and so it's
going to be all hands on deckfor for the lightworkers and,
and you know, star seeds orwhatever you want to say, and I
think, um, you know, havingsomething that you can lean into
, that is is that subtle butthat profound, you know.
Kat (01:01:20):
Yeah, I love that you shared that, because when I did
my rose yet to the first time,did it like the rose just called
me out in the garden and like,gave me this journey over some
weeks and I was integratingafter a really big time in the
Amazon and ended up back herelike straight out of the Amazon,
back to visit family and justby the nature of the state of
(01:01:44):
the world, I was not able to dothe integration and life that I
would have wished, and that'ssometimes how it is, and same
like just the.
It really brought me home toself and I wonder how long it
would have really taken me tointegrate that if not, if I
hadn't had the rose.
And that's the thing.
(01:02:04):
It's like you're doing nothingbut it's doing everything.
And it's like those small,subtle and yes, the rose is
always reminding me and also mysubtle practices, like of
feeding the invisible, is alwaysreminding me and showing me how
I get to deepen into self-careas a space holder, because it's
(01:02:25):
like I think I'm doing it, butsometimes I'm going through the
motions.
But when you're in deeprelationship with a plant, it
also cares and tends for you.
If you tend to it, so like onceyou diet a plant, it walks with
you for your life, if you keepfeeding that relationship and so
she'll remind me.
You know, like when I'm out ofthat balance and it happens, but
(01:02:46):
to be like okay, and the more Ifeed and take care of myself,
the more I can like give, and soI'll start to notice that and
it's just sometimes it happens.
But yes, like we are, I believeyou know these beautiful plant
and expansive, all types ofexpansive medicines.
It's like, yes, we can connectto the mysteries of the ancients
(01:03:10):
and all these downloads.
And don't get me wrong, like Ilove playing in that world.
It's like endless and um, but Ido really think it's about being
here and being, you know,really rooted, and really
grounded and really tending toour communities.
And if we're always expandingand we're like not able to root
(01:03:36):
in all the beautiful thingswe're learning and apply it into
our life, then it's like what'sit for?
It's for something, but then,to your point, like we also
can't be martyrs and I see thathappening a lot in the medicine
space it's like no, nourishyourself nourish nourish.
Nourish so that you can give.
And like we don't need to playout old traumas of like give
(01:03:59):
without filling ourselves up orlike abandoning our most
intimate relationships to feedcommunity, or like meet
someone's needs that oftentimesare based in an urgency that's
not real you know, and so I lovethat you have this ally as a
space holder.
But, yeah, like all the plantscan hold us and that subtleness
(01:04:22):
is like that's where the magicis.
Jenee (01:04:25):
So grateful, so grateful for you.
Can I read um, I think youwrote this poem, that it's, it's
your, your post with thelabyrinth outside.
Kat (01:04:39):
Oh yeah, can I read that?
Jenee (01:04:41):
as as just a finishing, uh, finishing up of our
conversation, cause I think it'sso beautiful, um, and of course
now I'm realizing I needglasses, my glasses, that I
think it's so beautiful, and ofcourse now I'm realizing I need
glasses my glasses that I don'thave right now.
Okay, I have, I think it's, Ihave walked through.
It says I have waked through.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I have walkedDefinitely walked, yeah, I have
(01:05:02):
walked through the halls of thedeepest, darkest parts of my
soul over and over, and soaredin the most exquisite halls of
beauty, flown on the winged ones, enchanted with the ancient
ones, sat in ceremony undergiant sacred trees in the Amazon
.
Mysteries of the universedecoded before my very eyes, the
(01:05:24):
universe decoded before my veryeyes, sat with others in the
depths of their darkest moment,only to witness them come into
their full glory.
I have seen the light, andstill it's truly when my feet
are on the ground, in the hereand now, tending a sweet gentle
herb in the garden, digging inthe soil or sipping my favorite
(01:05:47):
herbal ally, watching the sundance across the sky.
I thought that was so, sobeautiful and such a perfect um,
(01:06:11):
just little antidote forconversation, and I'm really
grateful for this conversation.
I'm grateful for you and forBeth, for this medicine and the
space um you offer.
You offer happy and song circlein your community, like in a
(01:06:33):
beach.
That sounds amazing.
I'm like philip we need to godo that.
Philip's like, he's like that'shis medicine big time.
My husband so, um, I was likewe should go to laguna sometime
and come visit sit with them andvisit and um, um and what else
let's see.
Oh, and you have an album outthat sounds amazing of kind of
(01:06:56):
channeled channel plant medicinesongs so you can find that.
I will post that on the um, onthe podcast page, if, if anyone
wants to check that out, and Iwill post Kat's website and
anything else that you want toannounce that you've got coming
up yeah, I have always open, soI just invite people to message
(01:07:20):
me.
Kat (01:07:21):
I do one-on-one rose dietas and then I also do one-on-ones.
People come and will tell mehey, hey, this is what's alive
for me, whether it's integrating, expansive experience to life,
and I will kind of work with youto find a plant and construct a
dieta for you.
So our plant spirit, immersion,so that's always an option.
(01:07:42):
Please reach out.
Um, and also, yeah, I just wantto thank Beth too.
Beth has been such anencouragement and also pulled me
out of my deep meditative, likemulling of whether I should
continue walking with this dieta, and brought it back to the
world, and so I'm like eternallygrateful.
She's such a beautiful humanguide.
(01:08:03):
She has been in my coach sistermedicine woman, so I want to
thank her and thank you for yourbeautiful work.
Do come visit, I'm grateful tobe here.
Yeah, I want to talk more, andit's so fun to get to share here
.
Jenee (01:08:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the conversationcontinues.
Kat (01:08:24):
Yes.
Jenee (01:08:24):
So thank you.
Kat (01:08:26):
Thank you.
Jenee (01:08:33):
The Heartlight Sessions podcast is executive produced
and hosted by me, janae Halstead.
It's edited, mixed and masteredby me too, and that theme song
you hear it's called Heartlight.
And yep, you guessed it, it'sfrom my record.
Disposable Love.
Got questions about a certainhealing modality or about
heart-centered healing, or maybeyou just need some advice on
life, love or creativity.
(01:08:53):
Send it my way, email me atletters at heartlightpodcastcom.
Until next time, I'm JanaeHalstead, and thanks for
listening to Heartlight Sessions, turning on my hot light,
thousand volts of sunshine.
Welcome to the Heartlight Sessions, a podcast about light
working your way through darktimes.
I'm Janae Halstead.
I'm a singer-songwriter,holistic vocal coach, intuitive
guide and plant medicinefacilitator.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm also a survivor ofchildhood abuse, autoimmune
issues and my 30s.
I'm on a lifelong healingjourney and along the way, I
(00:28):
want to share the ideas andteachings that rock my world.
Every week on HeartlightSessions, I call in artists,
healers and thinkers to explorewhat's helped them live and
thrive from a heart-centeredplace, Because the heart, it's
where the best things happen.
If you've ever wondered how tounlock your biggest
(00:51):
breakthroughs or how to comeback from that stuff that tried
to kill you, you know the stuffI'm talking about, the stuff
that's supposed to make youstronger.
Or if you've ever wondered howto just do you straight from the
heart, you're in the rightplace.
So join me, won't you?
Let's turn on that heart light.
All right, we are rolling.
(01:19):
So I have Kat Gordon with meand she has the yarrow
resilience institute.
She's the founder.
She is a plant medicine guide,an herbalist, um, an earth
tender any any other titles thatcovers it pretty much yes
(01:42):
and I am.
I have the wonderfullife-changing opportunity to be
in a container with Kat and it'sBeth Weinstein.
You guys have you're hosting afive-week rose dieta and so I am
on week two with you and it'sbeen like, wow, what a medicine.
(02:09):
And I feel like it came at likesuch a perfect time and you
know, I know the idea around itwas to do it before the election
.
You know Beth was saying likethe whole country needs this
dieta right now.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about what a dieta is and
then maybe we can like talkabout the rose and the rose
magic.
Kat (02:30):
Yes, absolutely I would love to.
So I've been thinking a lotabout actually how to explain
this, because the word dietaitself comes from the South
American Amazonian indigenoustraditions.
Specifically, the strongestgroup I know that works yet is
the Shipibo, but many differentgroups who are holders of
(02:55):
ancient knowledge, ways thatprotect the living plant
libraries.
They have something they call adieta, and it's basically a
deep immersion and relationshipbuilding with the spirit of a
plant, and the purpose of thatis one to learn the mysteries or
the secrets that a plant holds,or the teachings that it holds
(03:17):
for us, collectively andindividually, and then it is
also to receive healing andguidance from the plant.
And so, whatever you receive,there are overall messages that
particular plants offer up, andthat's why a teacher would be
like, hey, why don't you dietthis versus this?
And then, of course, how you'regoing to receive the messages
(03:40):
and the way it comes through isbased on your unique lived
experience, and so that is wherethe healing and the insights
come.
So there are some overallmessages one may receive.
Many people who diet rose willreceive similar messages, and
then there's going to be theseindividualized.
It's both a study, it's both a.
It's a study, it's a healingjourney and it's basically
(04:02):
connecting with the energy bodyof a plant.
But I will add, I always liketo add so dieta is one name for
these plant spirit immersions.
But cultures, all ancientcultures around the world, have,
from my studies and what I'veseen, have something similar to
(04:23):
a dieta.
They may work a little bitdifferently.
They have different masterplants.
That's what we call what wediet in the traditions that they
work with.
But this process of engagingwith the plant, beyond its
physical constituents and beyondwhat it can offer you for
(04:43):
physical healing, what we calllike the herbal actions of a
plant.
It's that engagement with theenergetic spiritual body of the
plant and kind of like takingthat in and inviting that energy
and that soul like into communewith your soul.
Jenee (05:02):
That's so beautiful.
What did you say?
The living library of.
Kat (05:08):
Yeah, that's what I call.
So I've been doing these dietasfor years where I go to the
Amazon and actually sit withplants.
I actually started my journeywith dieta with the Brazilian
tribes also.
Jenee (05:25):
So I've done.
Kat (05:26):
Sorry I didn't start, but I have done many different
traditions.
I misspoke.
I started with the Shipibo.
I started this whole journeywith the Shipibo elders in Peru.
But I've learned over the years.
So you know, a lot of times inherbalism and when we're trying
to learn a skill, but especiallyherbalism, we'll go to like
(05:48):
herbal skill.
Nowadays there's tons of onlinecourses.
When I first started thatwasn't really the case.
Or a book, right?
The other way is like you lookat a book, you see a plant, you
learn about it, and so when,with these traditions that are
like still living in deeprelationship with the plants,
there is no transmission likewritten.
(06:11):
Everything is orally transmittedand it's also a transmission
like from the plant to you.
Of course, you have theseelders who are both gatekeepers,
which I think is important tohonor and respect that we do
need gatekeepers in these spaces, but they are also translators
and for us to understand, likethe spirit talk of the plants,
(06:34):
right, and so they don't reallylike give us a manuscript, like
okay, your plant that you'redieting is going to do this.
It's more of this living,breathing thing that is teaching
you.
And so I call these plants likethe living library, because
they're not written about oftenin books.
Now you see here and therethings popping up, but they're
(06:56):
truly downloading theirinformation to you like you
would read it in a book, justthrough this, like energetic
transmission and livedexperience, if that makes sense.
That's why I call it that, andI feel like the plants told me
this many years ago, like thisis what we are.
We are the living library.
You can go to university, youcan get your PhD and study all
(07:18):
about plants, but this is alsoanother way to study the plants
in a very deep way, and this isa different type of university,
if you will.
Jenee (07:27):
Wow, I love that.
Before we get into the rose,I'm really curious, like how you
were drawn to South America andwere you working initially with
with herbs and plants in theStates and just curious how you
ended up on your on your journey.
Kat (07:46):
Yeah, it was a long and winding one.
Looking back, everything makessense.
But I really started workingwith plants through agriculture,
so I studied sustainable foodsystems, agroecology and
international development incollege so I very much focused
(08:10):
in the sustainable food systemsaspect of things and through
that I found agroecology, whichis a social, a political and an
environmental movement aroundfood, food scapes and the people
involved in those, and so food,foodscapes and the people
involved in those and soobviously growing food and
growing herbs in that context isvery embedded in a lifestyle.
(08:32):
It's like very holistic way ofseeing things.
And then I really realizedquickly that I just like growing
food.
So I quickly like You're like, Iwant to be a farmer.
Yeah, truly.
I found my way to communitygardens quite quickly,
educational spaces mainly, andthen I started farming, and that
is how I found my way to Peru.
(08:53):
I was fascinated by the highaltitude agricultural systems
that the descendants of theIncans farm, so I made my way to
the Sacred Valley and just fellin love with it.
It was definitely a spirit,like a spirit connection with
the place.
Yeah, I couldn't see it all atthe time, and so that was when I
(09:14):
was 21 years old I went to theSacred Valley of Peru the first
time, and about two years laterI finally found a way to move
down there.
So at that point I was already.
Jenee (09:22):
I finally found a way to move down there.
Kat (09:23):
So at that point I was already farming and I just
became incredibly fascinatedwith the wild edibles and wild
medicinals.
That just through observation,I was learning from the Andean
women farmers, like watchingthem.
Yes, they had some farminggoing on, but they are totally
in this, like deep relationshipwith the landscape.
(09:46):
And so I started to observe,learn, ask questions and I was
working.
I was part of the foundinggroup of a nonprofit doing high
altitude agricultural projects,so that's how I was exposed to
all these women and I was reallyon the ground and so you know I
was still into the agriculture,I was also growing food there,
(10:07):
but I kind of just like bywatching this magic in front of
me and you know, learning fromthe women how they bathe like
the babies the first time, androses and plants and all these
things.
I was just like wow this wholeworld just burst open for me.
I start, I don't speak Quechualike fluently by any means, but
(10:30):
I started to understand certainelements so I could communicate
with a lot of the women thatdon't speak Spanish even, and a
lot of it was just throughobservation them showing me
things and really spending a lotof time immersed in the
highlands up there in the highaltitude communities.
And then, yeah, long storyshort, I ended up like back in
(10:53):
the States for some yearsfarming and just slowly realized
, as I started to make medicinefor myself with friends just for
fun, that the herbalism, andthen soon after that, the really
spiritual side of it, was whatcalled me and then, I was.
I was living in the sacredValley for many years, so
(11:14):
naturally, I found my way to theplant medicine.
Jenee (11:17):
Yes, yes.
Kat (11:19):
That was a long, long story , thank you.
Jenee (11:21):
That was amazing, I knew you had.
I was like a long, long story,thank you.
That was amazing, I knew youhad.
I was like I cannot wait tohear about your, the depth of
your education and your.
Just sitting with you in thefirst week of of the dieta, I
felt so much knowledge and liketransmission coming off of you.
I was like, ah, I can't wait toto learn more about you, know
(11:46):
your path and your history,cause I knew it was really deep.
Kat (11:50):
Oh, thank you.
Jenee (11:51):
Yeah.
So maybe let's stay on this,this route of like the evolution
and and how you know the sacredplant medicines really kind of
evolved in your life and and ledyou to the path now of being in
service and facilitatingmedicine.
Kat (12:13):
Yeah, any specifics you want me to just share away?
Jenee (12:17):
Yeah, like I just would love to hear a little bit about
your evolution and you know,kind of from from farming down
there into like starting to workwith the mother.
You know Madre and um let's see.
Kat (12:35):
Well, I can go back to the very early stages.
The whole reason I got intofood and farming.
One my mom's, whole side of mymom's family is in farming um my
grandfather was a cattlerancher.
All of my mom's brothers werein farming, were and are, and so
(12:58):
I think it was a little bit inmy blood.
The plants, the connectionplants my grandmother was an
herbalist Also.
I have come to understand mygreat, great grandmother, so it
all kind of makes sense.
But my mother had breast cancertwice when I was a kid and then
my sister had some likepsychological stuff going on,
(13:20):
and so from an early age I wasjust kind of like, okay, I want
to find a way to always behealthy and vibrant and thriving
and have tools to deal with allthe things that happen in life,
right?
Jenee (13:37):
Yeah.
Kat (13:38):
So I found my way into farming just through my
obsession with food and soilhealth and I did a lot of
studying around, like pesticidesand their impact on human
health, and so quickly I kind ofwent into that world and that,
I think, really framed a lot ofmy interest in going into
(13:59):
herbalism, which then led me tothe plant medicine, because it
was food and it was herbs forhealing.
But it was really this biggerholistic picture around like how
do we live our lives in morewellness and more vibrancy and
in more sovereignty, where wehave choices over what goes into
(14:20):
our food, what goes into oursoil, what goes into our bodies.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm notagainst like the Western
medical model either.
I think it's.
I think all things weavetogether.
But I was like I want to havemore choices and that drove me
into the herbalism.
So that was more like therational minded me, you know.
(14:42):
The rational minded me, youknow.
But at the same time, I thinkonce I hit the ground in Peru, I
realized that our entirecontext of the Western culture
just didn't make sense to me.
And from a very young age.
I was just kind of confused.
Jenee (14:58):
But didn't know why.
Kat (15:00):
I grew up in California.
Everything seemed normal, it'sbeautiful, but I was just like I
don't fit in here.
I was born here.
I don't understand how thingswork Like societal constructions
, just like they didn't makesense to me.
Understood them, but I was likeI don't get it and I think you
know I went into competitivesports.
(15:22):
I was like a high, highachieving student and all of
that was just like me.
Jenee (15:28):
Numbing is what I realized Totally.
Kat (15:31):
Yeah, like realized I was numbing out.
Because I was super sensitiveand interested in things.
My soul was drawn to thingsthat didn't make sense or
weren't valued in our culture.
Jenee (15:43):
Yep.
Kat (15:43):
So when I got to Peru, I was like, oh, this whole
worldview of being inrelationship with nature, like
there is no connection, and evenI mean you hear this term, aini
, thrown around a lot these daysthis idea of sacred reciprocity
, it is truly like just one ofmany terms that defines the
(16:06):
culture in the Andean region,where it's just this like give
and take and it's really trulylike you're in.
It's not just like, oh, let'slike make an offering to the
earth before we take something.
It's like this deeprelationship you're in with the
earth and all living things.
that is informing, like how wemove through the world and in
(16:28):
honoring and in almost like apraying, you know, and a deep,
spiraling interaction.
So I'm probably getting alittle off course here, but it's
all good, we can weave howeverwe want.
Yeah, I think, though I willlike rein it back in and stay,
(16:51):
because I could go on for hours.
You know, I really whathappened was I had a breaking
point in this culture, in theWestern culture, where I was
just I hit a limit.
I hurt myself really badly incompetitive sports because I
wasn't nourishing my soul.
You, know, it was just push,push, push, nom nom nom super
(17:13):
intense in school and my soulthe way I see it and describe
now was like my soul was likedying.
You know what I mean.
It wasn't being fed, it wasn'tbeing nourished.
Everything on the outsidelooked beautiful and I was like
dying inside and I didn't knowhow to describe it, so I didn't
(17:35):
know how to get help, you know.
I was like I don't know whatthis feeling I'm having is.
I couldn't even put words to it.
It wasn't until I drank plantmedicine that I understood.
And so I did start on myspiritual journey with yoga.
Like from 18, I was practicingthe physical asana, and then in
(17:56):
college I started to get moreinto the spiritual side, but I
really didn't connect to it thatdeeply.
So it was like my soul wassearching for something.
And then by the time I got toPeru, I was still, you know,
working very hard, long hours,trying to prove something.
I had a.
(18:16):
Our organization had aconnection with universities, so
I was still trying to like fitin this construct, but I
everything was just kind of likecrumbling around me.
And um, I think I got to a point.
I call, I tell people like I Iwas like scraping rock bottom in
the sense of like.
Again everything looked great,but I was just like my soul was
(18:41):
withering and I had been to manyceremonies at this point, but
nothing with plant medicine Ihad been to like many um Kero
and Quechua style ceremoniesthat are just woven into the
fabric of everyday life andintentionally attending ones,
but a lot of them just in thefarming communities likeago a la
(19:05):
pacha, payments to mother earth, things that despachos and
different types of ceremoniesthat they do to ask for
permission or like when weharvest you would go and you
know, make a payment, have afeast for mother earth, and then
there's like communal work days, and so I had been in all these
rhythms but I was like I needsomething more and I felt like
(19:31):
the plants were already healingme just the gentle herbs and the
wild weeds, and I was likeyou know, still in this very
logical mindset, like this storyhas to be told, I have to write
a book, write a paper, I don'tknow, get funding to tell this
story about these women andtheir plants and their medicinal
(19:51):
.
And then I was like no, that isjust rewriting the story of
extractionism, Like what is thatgoing to do?
Now, looking back, I'm likeokay, that might have been an
extreme viewpoint.
Also, it could have fed a lotof beautiful things.
Jenee (20:07):
Yeah.
Kat (20:08):
At that point I was very like anti, you know.
I was like going there, I swunglike very far in the other
direction.
Jenee (20:14):
Yeah.
Kat (20:16):
And from what I knew and was born into, and so I slowly
just made my way towardsgrandmother medicine.
A friend invited me to aceremony.
My first ceremony was not inthe jungle, it was in the Sacred
Valley with a teacher who isnow passed but has still a
beautiful legacy of starting oneof, like, the strongest
(20:38):
medicine communities in thevalley, and I sat in a full moon
ceremony in this beautifultemple where the moonlight was
streaming through.
Jenee (20:50):
Wow.
I was totally unaware of what Iwas getting myself into.
Kat (20:56):
You know, I was like my friends had been inviting me and
I was just kind of like I didno research.
Jenee (21:02):
Yeah, I didn't know?
Kat (21:04):
Yeah, you know, my first ceremony was the same.
I had no research.
Jenee (21:06):
Yeah, I didn't know.
Yeah, you know, my firstceremony was the same.
I had no clue.
Showed up Like what.
Kat (21:10):
Drank a juice right before, like no idea.
I mean like in Peru you can goto the market and just drink,
like a fresh juice of fruit andveggies, but still like I had
zero idea, yeah, and I was justlike okay, but still like I had
zero idea.
Yeah, and I was just like okay.
I asked a friend to come withme and I went with some other
friends who were very deep inthe path, who I had come to love
(21:31):
and find as guides, and I wentand it was the most beautiful
experience of my entire life Iam.
This was 14 years ago and I'mstill unpacking my first
ceremony, Like I was justobviously there were scary parts
, yeah, and there were reallyintense parts, but I just went
(21:54):
in with full surrender because Ireally had no idea.
Wow blew my heart open andshowed me so many things that it
just rewove the entire fabricof my life and how I moved
through the world.
After that it was like I openeda door and I couldn't go back,
and I know a lot of people havescary first experiences.
(22:17):
I think it was just like and itwas very physical, very visual,
very everything but I was justthere for it and it was like I
felt like I was home.
Jenee (22:29):
Yeah.
Kat (22:30):
I didn't know what was happening, but I was like
there's snakes like riding in mybody, but that's cool, like
we're going with it, you know.
And I was just like this iswhat's supposed to happen.
It felt like the most naturalthing ever.
Jenee (22:42):
Wow, the most natural thing ever.
Wow, I know I think back to myfirst ceremony and, um, it was
in Brazil and, uh, I would sayend of a two week healing
training that I was doing withmy teacher and her husband is,
he serves there and is awell-known musician in Brazil
(23:03):
and I think if I would haveknown what I was getting into, I
would not, I don't think Iwould have sat for one and I
think I would have been likescared.
I mean there would have justbeen so many things kind of
placed on it that I would nothave been able to meet what
(23:24):
everything that I met that nightwith full, like surrender, and
same thing like I felt once youopen that door, like you know,
and it's a very, it's a veryhard one to close, and, yeah, I
mean the world of the world ofplant medicines is especially
(23:45):
the Madre.
It's like there's no words.
I mean the amount of healingthat I've received from that
medicine like, and the amount ofmagic and how it's weaving
through my life, it's.
You know, I would love to talka little bit more about this and
(24:06):
then maybe we can talk a bitabout, like, the ethic, the
ethical part of of sitting withplant medicine and the
reciprocity and stuff like that.
But I want to hear more aboutyour journey from that moment on
.
Kat (24:25):
Yeah, wow, how to describe it.
Jenee (24:30):
There's no words.
Kat (24:32):
I'm still on it.
Like I said, it changed theentire direction of my life, but
I didn't even realize it.
I mean, for sure, I came out ofthe ceremony being like, wow, I
just reframed.
You know reframed andredirected, but didn't mean that
it was all like rainbows andbutterflies.
It was a long road to today,but I mean I just kept coming
(24:55):
back.
Really, I realized that myrelationships needed adjustment.
The biggest relationship was myrelationship to myself yeah you
know, and that's some a theme Isee over and over, it's so
simple, it's just self-love,like that is like at the root of
so many of these things thatthen seed into bigger things in
(25:16):
our lives.
But so I went on that journeyand I continue.
You know, I ended up going tothe jungle and, like I said, my
first teachers were Shipibo andI really loved that.
That journey, that deep, deep,deep inside journey and into the
depths and the shadows, and wasso inspired by this, this plant
(25:37):
spirit world that they workedwith.
It's not just the grandmothermedicine.
It's so many different thingsand this whole idea of, like I
said, this living library, like,oh, these lived, immersive
experiences with the plants, itfinally made sense to me.
Plants have spirits.
We can speak to them, they canguide us, they can heal us and
(25:58):
we're in constant reciprocalrelationship with them.
And it's not just like they canheal us and we're in constant
reciprocal relationship withthem, and it's not just like
what can I get from taking thisthing or putting it in on and
around me, but truly like whatcan I do to feed this
relationship back and forth?
and beyond and spiraling in alldirections.
And again, not just about me andmy relationship with
(26:21):
grandmother or the other plants.
What about the ones that openedthis world to me and are the
true like wisdom holders, youknow, and that is an element I
feel is missing in many journeys, and I think it's just the
nature of our, the culture whichwe are raised in, and I'm
(26:41):
seeing shifts.
But, um, so yeah, the shipibo,you know, went to the jungle,
spent a lot of time there was,coming back and forth between
always living in the valley, andthen I will say I got to a
point where I was like, okay, myhealing's done, like I'm done,
that was fun, that was fun, thatwas a fun little phase.
Anyways, time to go, you know.
(27:04):
And so I made my way, actuallylived in Denmark for about two
years.
I fell in love and made my waythere and I was still in the
herbalism and permaculture worldbut I was like, okay, that was
a nice journey, you know.
Yeah, little did I know it wasjust getting started and so I
(27:31):
tried to kind of like push thatpart away.
But, like I said earlier, onceyou open this door, especially
once you start like dietingplants, it's not like something
you do and have an experienceand then you go away.
If you really go deep into it,it's a path, it's a lifestyle.
So I soon started having dreamsthat I like, over and over and
(27:52):
over, for about six months,tried to ignore them, but it was
several different things.
One was of energies in thevalley, some of the Apus
mountains I worked with, andsome was this woman standing in
the forest like beckoning me,and I was like, okay, it's
grandmother, it's Madre, likeshe wants me to come.
She was like come home, comehome.
(28:12):
And I was thinking, okay, stillthinking like this is just about
my personal journey.
And then I finally listened,because I went to a Reiki
session and the woman was like,hey, I just had these two images
and it was the same dream Ikept having so I was like, okay,
I'm going to Peru, I booked myticket and I ended up moving
(28:34):
back, um, but the funny thing isI did not know why I was there
or where I was going to sit.
I didn't feel called to go tothe jungle, to the the Amazon in
Peru.
So I sat there in the Valleyand I was like I just gave up
this whole life, like what am I?
What am I doing here?
You know it was, and there waslike she just kind of like
(28:55):
stretched it out, like are youwilling to trust?
You know?
And this one didn't go to anyceremonies.
I was like when it's the moment, I will be, I will know.
Jenee (29:05):
Wow.
Kat (29:05):
And I was invited by many people and I was just like, okay
, stay steady.
I almost lost it and just likewent back to California, but
right before that happened.
I met my my now husband, Wow Um, and we didn't meet.
Through the medicine I waslooking for a home and I walked
into his house where he had somespaces rented and to rent and
(29:28):
he was watching a video of theHuni Queen.
Wow, Because he was workingwith different leaders in the
Brazilian.
Amazon, and so we quicklyobviously connected.
We didn't really talk aboutmedicine.
We just watched the videostogether and it was like obvious
(29:52):
that we were both on this path.
And then, not long after that,he brought a group of Huni Queen
and we had started dating.
And so I was helping with theretreat, and I mean from there.
I ended up going to Brazil,going into very deep
relationship with Huni QueenShananawa Sambarinawa Yawanawa
teachers.
Jenee (30:11):
Wow.
Kat (30:12):
Mainly Huni Queen.
And then our teachers were kindof like.
They were like you know,francisco, my partner, he had
already been working one-on-onewith people.
At that point I wasn't serving,I had worked in spaces, I had
been in service but I wasn'tserving.
And our teachers are basicallylike this is like now's the time
(30:33):
for you to like carry this intoplaces.
We can't go so okay.
We've done a tour with um tour,with the Huni Queen, all over
the US, a three-month tour.
We take community to Dieta inAmazon, in Peru.
We've gone down to Vivencias inBrazil and over time, and
(30:56):
especially during the pandemic,they were like you carry this
altar, you know so actually ouraltar is a weaving of different
teachers and different lineages.
That what works in the UnitedStates or works for Westerners,
(31:22):
even if they come to like we didhave a retreat center in the
Sacred Valley to us is there'slike a step before going to the
Amazon for some people.
And so we weave this likebeautiful altar.
That is a style.
It has Shipibo elements andthen it has the Brazilian like
Huni Queen, kashina Wa elementsin it as well.
(31:43):
So yeah, it's an interestingmix.
But we bring a lot of like thatmessage of joy, of alegría, of
taking personal responsibilityfor your journey and community
into the space, because I saw onmy path like so many people get
lost just in like the like muckof their personal journey and
(32:10):
also a lot of people get stuckin the shadow and can't get out.
So we found this way to likeweave everything so that we can
help guide and like lift theenergy, because I really feel
like both community and and umjoy are two things that our
culture is missing.
Jenee (32:28):
Absolutely so.
When you're now offering umceremony with your husband, um,
you're bringing these elementsin and then what's your?
Do you have kind of like a pre,like a, like a pre um, uh, what
do I want to say?
Kat (32:48):
Um, like a prep preparation period where you're, you know,
working with, like certainelements of the plant and then
the plant and then, or if it'sjust more like group group work
and yeah, we have a lot ofdifferent ways we work um,
everything we do has a deeppreparation process.
(33:10):
We know the name of everyperson that sits with us.
We work small groups orone-on-one privates and we do a
lot of preparation aroundunderstanding what it is, the
context, understanding whysomeone is coming to us, and
that helps us understand how towork with them, both in ceremony
(33:32):
and then the bigger containerof like coming in and coming out
.
So there's like a lot of thatpre-work that happens.
Then, of course, we have ourceremonial container and then we
have a lot of integrationsupport as well.
Some of that is built in, nomatter what, if you come to an
(33:54):
experience with us.
And then we have additionalprograms that we offer people,
like my dietas or with plantslike rose or rosemary or
calendula or something gentle.
That is a really powerfulintegrative tool and also helps
people understand this wholeworld.
(34:14):
Or it's more concrete tools,rituals, practices that are very
tailored to someone's processand what they're going for.
So we go really deep withpeople.
Our journey over the years hasbeen smaller, more focused, like
that's kind of what we've cometo, and then particular
(34:35):
individuals who really want towalk this path.
We will take them for likedieta or to a viventia,
depending, like there'sdifferent paths in the medicine,
like you well know, and so it'slike whatever fits an
individual's needs journey wherethey're at everything.
Jenee (34:53):
Absolutely.
Wow.
That's so fascinating.
How did you and your husbandend up moving back to the States
?
Did you feel that call from thetime you were working with the
tribes?
Kat (35:08):
Yeah, I mean, the first step was when we did the tour In
2022, we did a tour with theHuni Queen, a three-month tour
all over the States and then wemoved back to Peru and we
previously had been running aretreat space in Peru and from
(35:29):
about 20, 20, 20, or like 2018to 2019 was like group stuff.
Then, you know, the pandemichappened.
We were here and also in Peruand after the pandemic we opened
a retreat space in Peru andpeople were coming to us that
fed into this tour and werealized that we had so many
(35:52):
people we had served medicine toin the United States that were
lacking support, community orwanted to go deeper on the path.
And we also saw that a lot ofthe communities we had visited
didn't really contain or hold orcontextualize for people.
It was just like people go to aceremony, I don't know,
(36:14):
sometimes rooted in tradition,sometimes not yes.
And then you're just on your own.
You know, and there's, I sayit's like the US is like the
Wild West, absolutely Of thisspace, and so we were just like,
okay, we had built a solidcommunity.
And while many people werecoming to us in Peru, we also
felt like we need to be therefor follow up.
(36:37):
We need to, we want to, we feelvery called to be um going
deeper and that I also believethe us needs some really big
healing right now yeah or thewestern world in general, and
then, um, just that in-personfollow-up and the ability to
(36:58):
reach greater community andbring some context to this space
, because both of us have livedin Peru for on and off, for over
10 years, and these things docome from traditions, they do
come from beautiful lineages andfrom people, from humans and
environments that I believe weshould continue linking these
(37:20):
traditions and rituals to andthat was a big part of our
message too.
Jenee (37:25):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like the reciprocity aspect and the
deepening of of peopleunderstanding, you know what
what this relationship truly isum with with any of the
Amazonian plants, and I findmyself, like, since I started
(37:45):
working with plant medicine,like I'm trying to heal deeply.
It's like I don't I don't wantto say like the colonizer, but
they're that voracious, like oneway stream.
That I feel like is thementality of, you know, the
(38:09):
Western world, and especiallywith the United States, and I'm
meeting myself constantly inthat space of like one being
like how can I be in morereciprocity, like, how can I be
more reciprocity with the earth?
How can I be more in morereciprocity with the medicine
(38:30):
that we serve and you know, andthe tribe that we receive that
medicine from?
Like how can I heal this?
Because some days it just feelslike it's daunting that feeling
inside, and I catch myselfoften and I feel like it's the
(38:50):
nature of the I don't want tosay matrix, but it's the nature
of the way this system is set up.
It's the nature of the way thissystem is set up.
So, yeah, I myself have reallystarted to heal and I feel like
there's so much that needs tohappen around healing that.
(39:13):
You know that relationship andI don't know if you want to
speak to that and maybe some oflike the ethics of receiving
medicine and reciprocity.
Kat (39:27):
Yeah, I mean I feel you 100% that, like I call it, like
the extraction mindset, yeah, soclear, and especially because I
lived away from here for solong and away from the United
States and I will say saywhatever you want about other
countries, whatever everyone hastheir opinions, but I found in
(39:50):
Denmark and Europe at least thethe circles I moved through so
much more of a communal mindsetyeah that I really um, I see a
desire, like a thirst for theUnited States, but there's this
like extraction, where I, you'relike, I see it all the time you
engage with someone or you comeinto a situation and it's so
subconscious.
(40:11):
I don't want to judge peoplebecause it and I, I see it in
myself and I'm always, like yousaid, working.
It is this idea of what can Iget from this?
Yes.
Or you can watch in someonelike as they're learning
something instead of being inlike full relationship and truly
learning and embodying it.
(40:33):
It's like they think they'redoing that, but in the mind is
already like how can I talkabout this in my class?
Jenee (40:40):
I'm going to teach later my social media.
How can I make money off this?
Kat (40:44):
Yeah, flip and sell and again like with so much
compassion because it's sodeeply embedded in our
subconscious, and I think that'sreally scary, though, when you
get into the medicine or healingspace in general, but it's also
a really big topic, and so I'llspeak like a few things.
(41:06):
But of course, you know, therewas a time in my life where I
was like, well, everythingshould be for free.
And then there was a time in mylife where I was like only you
know, indigenous wisdom holders.
I do hear that rhetoric and Ihonor it and I actually really
value where it's coming from.
Only indigenous wisdom holdersshould carry these medicines,
(41:30):
you know.
Or even like what I do with therose yeah, I really really sat
with that because the rose is mymost popular public one I work
with.
I work with many plants, butwe're in this rose container
together and it's not the sameat all.
Like I said, it's a plant spiritimmersion, but I do use the
word dieta.
I really have sat with that andI actually took almost all of
(41:54):
last year off after coming outof two dietas in the Amazon to
be like how do I walk this pathin integrity?
And is this like really steppingback to see if I was in
integrity, despite the fact that, like one of my Huni Queen
teachers, she was like let's dothis.
(42:15):
Obviously I didn't do all thefacilitation, but she took my
rose medicine.
We would do like ceremoniestogether.
She was like loving it.
You know and she it openedthings for her, then she opened
things for me.
So, um, despite all of that,you know, and so I was, like I
really have been always in, inthinking like how can I be in
(42:35):
reciprocity, how can I be inlike an ethical carrier of these
medicines, these ways, even ifyou don't serve, like all of
these traditions?
Should we even have access tothese things, you know, outside
of the Amazon or as Westernersin general, like are we doing
good or are we damaging?
(42:56):
Like so many questions, and Iwill say, like my husband's from
South America, so that has beena really beautiful place of
learning and growing and a safespace for me to ask questions
and also to access.
Like I have had way more accessto the roots of these cultures
(43:19):
because he is like a trustedbridge.
We always talk like he's likemy bridge to the indigenous
wisdom holders in the Amazon oreven in the Andes, and I'm like
his bridge to the Westernculture.
Beautiful and it's like thisbeautiful weaving, and so I'm
really grateful that that hasgiven me the perspectives and
(43:40):
the learnings it has, and also Ifeel like the confidence to
speak about this stuff because,um, but yeah, I think just
sitting in the sitting withmedicines like watch, you are
the grandmother, or or othermedicines, you know, other
expansive medicines they in andof themselves you're truly
(44:02):
coming for your healing.
They're going to show you thesethings.
And then my thing is like to bein ethical relationship and
integrity, like are you going tolisten to that If it means you
have to change things about howyou move through the world?
If anything as simple as askinga space holder, can I touch
(44:23):
your altar, can I share thissong?
That is like an ancient healingchant with my friend, or having
that, and I think a lot of uscome to that and we know deep
inside of us that we should ask,but we don't have that mindset.
So the first and simplest thingI always invite people when
(44:44):
they're working.
This is like ask, you know askfor permission you know just
like when you harvest a plant inthe, in the wild or in your
garden.
You ask and it's not always ayes and like can you, as an
adult, handle that you?
Can.
You say, okay, you know whatit's a no, and it might hurt my
(45:06):
ego because I don't understandand I'm in process, it might
make me get all like grumpy.
But instead of going in thatdirection, maybe ask why you
know why why not, and can youteach me more about this?
Jenee (45:19):
that's one thing.
Kat (45:20):
I really dedicate myself to is, and I I see that the
teachers in Amazon.
If you have good teachers, theywill teach you too.
If you ask why, why do you dothis, is this okay If I share?
How can I work with this inrespect?
You know, like tobacco is oneplant that I think shows this
(45:43):
whole thing in a really big andobvious way.
This whole imbalance that wehave Tobacco in and of itself
and this may trigger some peopleis not bad.
It's a powerful healing spirit.
It's a very, very powerfulspirit Very powerful.
Deeply healing plant and it hasa spirit, a very strong spirit,
(46:07):
and that's one thing like partof why I do this plant spirit
work is to invite people to seeevery plant has a spirit.
So let's look at this Like if aplant has a spirit and tobacco
is a big master plant in everyhealing tradition around the
world.
It's just like grandfather,elder energy protection.
(46:28):
It opens clarity.
It's like I call it themedicine of immediate truth,
like all the bullshit.
My language is boom.
I love it my language, just boom, I love it.
So look, we see in the Westernculture, people you know be like
if you smoke tobacco you'll dieof lung cancer, blah blah.
It's like okay, well one, let'sbreak this down.
(46:55):
First, we're mixing a bunch ofstuff with this tobacco.
It's not grown in a way wherewe're honoring the earth yeah
then we're inhaling it into ourbody.
Every culture that works withthese.
You do not take it into yourlungs.
Yeah, blow the, the smoke out.
And so that is like we'retaking, we're trying to like,
take the spirit like intoourselves, and it's a really big
spirit, so of course it's we'renot respecting it, so of course
(47:19):
it's wreaking havoc on oursystems, right, and so the
problem is not the plant, theproblem is our relationship to
the plant and this idea that wecan just take it, use it, sell
it, and it's like the individualis just a part of this bigger
construct.
But somewhere along the way,that respect got lost and that
(47:41):
extractive mindset put us wherewe are now.
And so you can imagine how manylayers of unlearning get to
happen, and it's so easy to getlost in that.
Well, they did it to us.
It's like we're not victimsonce we know we can do something
and I see that with themedicine space, you know like
pulling it back in.
(48:01):
Yeah, you know, do you havepermission?
If you are serving these things, are you doing your own work?
One like I said, if you'redoing your own work, you're
going to first and foremostyou're going to see these things
.
There's no ignoring them, andyou have a teacher that's going
to guide you.
I know everyone's like I'm myown shaman and I'm like.
(48:23):
My partner actually said this,so this is his quote and I was
like I love this.
He's like I'm not my own shaman.
I have my teachers.
I have my teachers, my guides,my elders, my wisdom holders,
because they help me walk thepath of integrity, understand
what is in alignment for my souland help me sense, make and see
(48:47):
things I can't see, and I am sograteful to have that.
So it's like seeking theguidance of those who have
walked before us, honoring that,also, knowing that people are
human.
So, you know, not going intothat like let's put everyone on
a pedestal and whatever they sayis.
Is it Because that's?
a dicey area we get into whenpeople also try to work in
(49:10):
reciprocity, like giving ourpower away, like an alignment
and integrity, understandingyour truth when you're doing
your work and then asking forpermission.
Giving back so easy.
There's so many ways to giveback.
It doesn't have to be justmonetarily.
Jenee (49:28):
Yes.
Kat (49:29):
Art, music, sharing, taking community to the roots, always
honoring your teachers when youdo serve these things, knowing
as someone who does servemedicine too, with honoring your
teachers when you do servethese things, knowing as someone
who does serve medicine too,like with discernment when is it
okay to be like no, this isn'tfor you yet.
(49:54):
You know, not because someonewants something and they're
willing to pay us for it.
Do we give and that's part ofwhy like, for example, the rose
diet, to these soft dietas?
I'm like these are beautifulopportunities for people to
understand.
Is this even a path I want togo down?
Or can I receive so muchbeautiful healing messages,
guidance, life giving,nourishment from the plants all
(50:15):
around me and that's truly justperfect for me?
You know not saying this isn'tfor you, but why don't we do
this?
This is beautiful andlife-giving and nourishing and
context building.
And then if you want to keepgoing like, let's go here, and
if not, there's a myriad of waysyou can go.
Jenee (50:34):
Yes.
Kat (50:35):
That is not down the down the like big expansive medicine
paths.
Jenee (50:40):
Yeah, I love.
Just coming back to the dieta,finally, and like it's powerful
medicine, Like Rose, that, wow.
You know I was thinking thisweek I've been thinking about it
because I feel like I Maybe mefive years ago, more numbed out,
(51:08):
wouldn't have been able to bein communion with the plant
right now in the way that I am,but the first two days she blew
me open.
I was like everything's sobeautiful, beautiful, Thank you.
(51:29):
I was like thank you, thank you, thank you, like, like weeping
at, like the beauty of the world, my, um, my subtle nervous
system and the places I'vereally wanted to sit with myself
(51:53):
and haven't.
Like, there's like a littlebuzz constantly going on with me
and and part of it also is likecaffeine and I stopped like
drinking caffeine alongside.
So, um, yeah, I feel like it'sinteresting.
I'm wondering if, like me fiveyears ago, wouldn't have really
(52:14):
been able to like fully, um,have that kind of transformation
from, from the medicine.
Kat (52:20):
Yeah, that's a great point.
First, just loving everythingyou shared.
Um, first just lovingeverything you shared.
Yes, it's just like Rose islike this beautiful cocoon of
love and nourishment, and it'strue.
I think what you say is verytrue.
I mean, it's hard for someonewho has never sat with plants,
(52:44):
and even these expansive plantsor medicines that open us up, to
be able to commune with thesesubtle spirits or understand
like what it even is.
It can be hard for someone tohave as deep of an experience as
you're having and I will say,at the same time, they have it.
(53:04):
If that makes sense, it's justthe awareness or the real-time
awareness of it may not alwaysbe present.
It may be like a reflectionover years where they start to
realize, or it may be that theyget like one big deep thing from
it.
But I will say that's why it'sso important to have a guide
(53:26):
especially if you don't workwith other plants and these big
I call them the big expanderswhich, to your point, also with
the nervous system we are like,so addicted in our society to
these big expansive experiencesand subtlety.
There's so much healing in thesubtle, especially I mean for me
(53:48):
.
I'm really passionate aboutthis for women.
Jenee (53:50):
Yeah.
Kat (53:51):
Like and like what is serving you and what time in
your life you know andespecially as space holders,
when we are in these bigexpansive medicines so often,
how can we support and nourishourselves?
Because even if we feel like,yeah, we're in the flow, because
we see all this, like ourbody's like wait, like why is
(54:12):
everything so big all the time?
And this embeds this like deeptensions that we don't even
realize are there.
And another beautiful andfavorite quote by my partner is
like between one and a hundred,there's 99 different levels,
right, Even with our grandmother.
Like some of my favoriteexperiences have been like the
(54:32):
small and deepest have been thesmallest amounts.
Jenee (54:35):
Me too.
Kat (54:36):
So that's where these yeah, you get it these something like
the rose dieta, for example, Ihave worked with a lot of you
know.
Usually I do, actually in fullhonesty, usually I work with
women with the rose yet to Ibelieve it's for everyone, but
that just seems to be who likecomes to me and how I channeled
the, the spirit, immersion partof it, which is these deepening
(55:00):
exercises and embodimentpractices and um towards the
feminine body.
And I have had people where theyare calling me every day,
texting me, because when I workone-on-one we have a very deep
dive, one-on-one calls, so we'rein like constant communication
and I'll have women say to meyou know, kat, I'm not feeling
(55:23):
anything or I don't know if thisis working and it's.
I'm like, just keep showing up,just keep going to your altar
every day, drink the tea, do theexercises.
I promise something ishappening.
But then I start to ask themquestions just to kind of like
see and show them so they candiscover it themselves, because
(55:44):
I can see it working.
But, no one wants someone totell you like well, I see the
softening around your eyes orthe change in the way you write
the text, or this or that or thethings you're talking about, or
the fact that you just told meyou offered your tea to the tree
in the morning these thingsthat you would have never.
(56:06):
I've never heard you say, andpeople even will say, like well,
I did walk by this wall andthere was like a mural of the
rose and I'm like that's it.
Or I had a conversation withsomeone and it was much more
easeful than I expected and I'mlike that's the rose or whatever
plant you're working with, likethat is the plant working.
(56:26):
It just isn't what we expect itto be.
So that's the entry point whereI think having a guide is
really beautiful, where you canstart to like tease that out for
someone and be like I know youhave no idea what it should look
like and also everyone'sexperience looks different and I
know I told you what it maylook like.
(56:47):
But once you start talking aboutwhat's happening at work, in
your lived experience becausethese are experiences in
everyday life we can starttogether to be like oh for you,
this is how Rose speaks to you,or these are the subtle changes
that are happening and sometimesthey lead to big, expansive
(57:08):
things and other times not, andif nothing else, just this act
of coming into ritual at leastonce a day at an altar drinking
a tea, the act of bathing andlike just gifting yourself that
moment, even if you don't feellike the plant coming into you
or ever feel like the spiritspeaks to you, just gifting
(57:31):
yourself that sacred pause, isactually building a very solid
habit and context for connectingto the sacred and the visible,
and that in of itself is huge,for me If that's all someone
gets out of it yet to, becausethat can shift the entire fabric
(57:53):
of somebody's life.
If they never pause, or neverspeak a kind word or make a bath
for themselves, or somethingyou know you would, you would be
surprised.
It makes me sad, but so oftenit's just like even that is huge
and we forget that when we'reso deep on these like spiritual
(58:14):
paths.
you know, that and that's why Icontinue offering these things,
these gentle plant ally accesspoints and my plant spirit,
herbal medicine, because I'mlike, like everyone deserves to
access these things totally andnot everyone is ready or wants
to come sit in a big plantmedicine ceremony, and those
(58:36):
people that maybe take atincture or an essence or sign
up for the dieta even thoughthey don't know what they're
doing, those are the people thatare like probably one need it
the most and two like, if we canshift that every person I feel
like I touch, like they touch anentire community and a family,
(58:59):
and then, of course, people likeyou, who is like you're, a
medicine woman.
It's like, when you have thesedeep, profound experiences,
imagine one, what it, what it'sdoing for you, and then, like
our, we get to connect and makea row.
It's like this I always say,it's like this collective
rosebush we're always ontogether, once we, once I work
with someone, but then imagine,like, how it ripples into your
(59:19):
relationship with your husband,with your mother, like with
everything the people you workwith.
Jenee (59:25):
Oh, it's amazing.
The plants I know.
It's like really amazing howmuch it's really like integrated
a lot of my big journeys Likevery interesting in the last two
weeks and I've done a lot oflike heart opening medicine, but
(01:00:11):
like just something this subtleand daily and just that thing
like I'm constantly takingcareand the bath like so luxurious.
Like just yesterday I did thebath, or it was Monday I did the
second bath and like justhaving the rose like in my hair
and like, oh, it's so luxuriousand I just go to sleep like with
(01:00:32):
my hair wet and it's been,she's really held me and I'm
realizing how much I really needto deeply take care of myself
in the spaces that I, whetherit's just coming to my altar
every day, you know, um, and Ithink even more as, like you
(01:00:55):
know, we know things are goingto get crazier too and so it's
going to be all hands on deckfor for the lightworkers and,
and you know, star seeds orwhatever you want to say, and I
think, um, you know, havingsomething that you can lean into
, that is is that subtle butthat profound, you know.
Kat (01:01:20):
Yeah, I love that you shared that, because when I did
my rose yet to the first time,did it like the rose just called
me out in the garden and like,gave me this journey over some
weeks and I was integratingafter a really big time in the
Amazon and ended up back herelike straight out of the Amazon,
back to visit family and justby the nature of the state of
(01:01:44):
the world, I was not able to dothe integration and life that I
would have wished, and that'ssometimes how it is, and same
like just the.
It really brought me home toself and I wonder how long it
would have really taken me tointegrate that if not, if I
hadn't had the rose.
And that's the thing.
(01:02:04):
It's like you're doing nothingbut it's doing everything.
And it's like those small,subtle and yes, the rose is
always reminding me and also mysubtle practices, like of
feeding the invisible, is alwaysreminding me and showing me how
I get to deepen into self-careas a space holder, because it's
(01:02:25):
like I think I'm doing it, butsometimes I'm going through the
motions.
But when you're in deeprelationship with a plant, it
also cares and tends for you.
If you tend to it, so like onceyou diet a plant, it walks with
you for your life, if you keepfeeding that relationship and so
she'll remind me.
You know, like when I'm out ofthat balance and it happens, but
(01:02:46):
to be like okay, and the more Ifeed and take care of myself,
the more I can like give, and soI'll start to notice that and
it's just sometimes it happens.
But yes, like we are, I believeyou know these beautiful plant
and expansive, all types ofexpansive medicines.
It's like, yes, we can connectto the mysteries of the ancients
(01:03:10):
and all these downloads.
And don't get me wrong, like Ilove playing in that world.
It's like endless and um, but Ido really think it's about being
here and being, you know,really rooted, and really
grounded and really tending toour communities.
And if we're always expandingand we're like not able to root
(01:03:36):
in all the beautiful thingswe're learning and apply it into
our life, then it's like what'sit for?
It's for something, but then,to your point, like we also
can't be martyrs and I see thathappening a lot in the medicine
space it's like no, nourishyourself nourish nourish.
Nourish so that you can give.
And like we don't need to playout old traumas of like give
(01:03:59):
without filling ourselves up orlike abandoning our most
intimate relationships to feedcommunity, or like meet
someone's needs that oftentimesare based in an urgency that's
not real you know, and so I lovethat you have this ally as a
space holder.
But, yeah, like all the plantscan hold us and that subtleness
(01:04:22):
is like that's where the magicis.
Jenee (01:04:25):
So grateful, so grateful for you.
Can I read um, I think youwrote this poem, that it's, it's
your, your post with thelabyrinth outside.
Kat (01:04:39):
Oh yeah, can I read that?
Jenee (01:04:41):
as as just a finishing, uh, finishing up of our
conversation, cause I think it'sso beautiful, um, and of course
now I'm realizing I needglasses, my glasses, that I
think it's so beautiful, and ofcourse now I'm realizing I need
glasses my glasses that I don'thave right now.
Okay, I have, I think it's, Ihave walked through.
It says I have waked through.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I have walkedDefinitely walked, yeah, I have
(01:05:02):
walked through the halls of thedeepest, darkest parts of my
soul over and over, and soaredin the most exquisite halls of
beauty, flown on the winged ones, enchanted with the ancient
ones, sat in ceremony undergiant sacred trees in the Amazon
.
Mysteries of the universedecoded before my very eyes, the
(01:05:24):
universe decoded before my veryeyes, sat with others in the
depths of their darkest moment,only to witness them come into
their full glory.
I have seen the light, andstill it's truly when my feet
are on the ground, in the hereand now, tending a sweet gentle
herb in the garden, digging inthe soil or sipping my favorite
(01:05:47):
herbal ally, watching the sundance across the sky.
I thought that was so, sobeautiful and such a perfect um,
(01:06:11):
just little antidote forconversation, and I'm really
grateful for this conversation.
I'm grateful for you and forBeth, for this medicine and the
space um you offer.
You offer happy and song circlein your community, like in a
(01:06:33):
beach.
That sounds amazing.
I'm like philip we need to godo that.
Philip's like, he's like that'shis medicine big time.
My husband so, um, I was likewe should go to laguna sometime
and come visit sit with them andvisit and um, um and what else
let's see.
Oh, and you have an album outthat sounds amazing of kind of
(01:06:56):
channeled channel plant medicinesongs so you can find that.
I will post that on the um, onthe podcast page, if, if anyone
wants to check that out, and Iwill post Kat's website and
anything else that you want toannounce that you've got coming
up yeah, I have always open, soI just invite people to message
(01:07:20):
me.
Kat (01:07:21):
I do one-on-one rose dietas and then I also do one-on-ones.
People come and will tell mehey, hey, this is what's alive
for me, whether it's integrating, expansive experience to life,
and I will kind of work with youto find a plant and construct a
dieta for you.
So our plant spirit, immersion,so that's always an option.
(01:07:42):
Please reach out.
Um, and also, yeah, I just wantto thank Beth too.
Beth has been such anencouragement and also pulled me
out of my deep meditative, likemulling of whether I should
continue walking with this dieta, and brought it back to the
world, and so I'm like eternallygrateful.
She's such a beautiful humanguide.
(01:08:03):
She has been in my coach sistermedicine woman, so I want to
thank her and thank you for yourbeautiful work.
Do come visit, I'm grateful tobe here.
Yeah, I want to talk more, andit's so fun to get to share here
.
Jenee (01:08:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the conversationcontinues.
Kat (01:08:24):
Yes.
Jenee (01:08:24):
So thank you.
Kat (01:08:26):
Thank you.
Jenee (01:08:33):
The Heartlight Sessions podcast is executive produced
and hosted by me, janae Halstead.
It's edited, mixed and masteredby me too, and that theme song
you hear it's called Heartlight.
And yep, you guessed it, it'sfrom my record.
Disposable Love.
Got questions about a certainhealing modality or about
heart-centered healing, or maybeyou just need some advice on
life, love or creativity.
(01:08:53):
Send it my way, email me atletters at heartlightpodcastcom.
Until next time, I'm JanaeHalstead, and thanks for
listening to Heartlight Sessions, turning on my hot light,
thousand volts of sunshine.
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