April 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Nothing happens until something moves. This conversation with Jen Steers, my sister and lifelong movement practitioner, reveals how physical practices become powerful tools for navigating life's complexities.
From childhood outdoor adventures to competitive synchronized swimming, Jen's relationship with movement has always been about freedom and connection. When she discovered yoga, however, something unexpected happened—her busy mind quieted. The physical practice opened doors to philosophical insights that transformed her approach to challenging situations.
During her career working in emergency housing and homeless shelters, Jen found that these movement-based awareness practices became essential tools. Rather than approaching difficult situations with toughness or rigidity, she learned to lead with curiosity and compassion. "It's not about enforcing rules," she explains, "it's about listening, seeing the other in yourself, and helping people see themselves again—not as the issue they're dealing with."
Our conversation explores the fascinating parallels between yoga and equine-assisted learning. Horses, as prey animals with highly sensitive nervous systems, provide immediate, honest feedback about our emotional states. They teach us about authentic presence, boundaries, and the ability to move fluidly between focused action and receptive awareness—what might be called "autonomic flexibility."
Ready to explore how movement might transform your approach to life's challenges? Subscribe to Heart of Motion for more conversations about the science and soul of movement as a pathway to vibrant living.
About Jen Steers
Jen Steers has been dedicated to coordinating fitness facilities and community programs in Ottawa Housing neighborhoods. During COVID, she worked in emergency housing and homeless shelters - a big growth experience for her. Jen is passionate about working with people and finding ways to build better systems and relationships, especially with the most vulnerable populations. She integrates yoga, mindfulness, equine therapy and energy work into her daily life and into challenging situations.
After a successful career, Jen retired last summer from the City of Ottawa and is now offering one-on-one coaching group training and corporate wellness workshops in yoga, mindfulness, equine therapy and energy healing.
Heart of Motion Podcast host Susannah Steers is a Pilates & Integrated Movement Specialist and owner of Moving Spirit Pilates in North Vancouver, BC. She is passionate about movement, about connections and about life.
Through movement teaching, speaking, and facilitating workshops, she supports people in creating movement practices that promote fitness from the inside out. She loves building community, and participating in multi-disciplinary collaborations.
Along with her friend and colleague Gillian McCormick, Susannah also co-hosts The Small Conversations for a Better World podcast – an interview based podcast dedicated to promoting the kind of conversations about health that can spark positive change in individuals, families, communities and across the globe.
Social Media Links:
Moving Spirit Pilates Instagram
Moving Spirit Pilates Facebook
Susannah Steers Instagram
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susannah Steers (00:00):
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast.
I'm Susanna Steers and I'll beyour host as we explore the
heart, soul and science ofmovement as a pathway to more
active, vibrant and connectedliving.
Nothing happens until somethingmoves, so let's get started.
Today, I have the great pleasureof introducing you to someone I
(00:22):
have admired for a very, verylong time.
We grew up together.
My guest on this episode is mybest friend, my sister, my
partner in crime.
She absolutely knows where allthe bodies are buried.
She won't tell you this, but Ithink she's one of the most real
and courageous people I know.
Her movement practice is trulyintegrated with her life and
(00:45):
that's one of the many reasonsthat I wanted to share her with
you.
Over the course of her career,jen Steers has been dedicated to
coordinating fitness facilitiesand community programs in
Ottawa housing neighborhoods.
During COVID, she worked inemergency housing and homeless
shelters a big growth experiencefor her.
In challenging times, jen ispassionate about working with
(01:08):
people and finding ways to buildbetter systems and
relationships, especially withthe most vulnerable populations.
She integrates yoga,mindfulness, equine therapy and
energy work into her daily lifeand into challenging situations.
Her practice doesn't requirebeautiful, quiet, zen-like
settings, because life is hectic, awesome, real and raw, and
(01:31):
this is where her training andskills are the most helpful.
After a successful career, jenretired last summer from the
city of Ottawa and is nowoffering one-on-one coaching
group training and corporatewellness workshops in yoga.
Now offering one-on-onecoaching group training and
corporate wellness workshops inyoga, mindfulness, equine
therapy and energy healing.
Jen believes that thesemodalities, though different,
(01:54):
have many similarities and canbe mixed and matched to be
relatable for her clients,promoting better physical,
mental and emotional health.
Hey, Jen, welcome to thepodcast.
Jen Steers (02:03):
Oh, my goodness, what an introduction.
You got me all teary.
Susannah Steers (02:08):
Well, you know it comes from the heart.
I always know you, even fromthe time you were really little.
You were always an athletic kid.
You went to the juniornationals with the synchro team.
You were a lifeguard andaquatics instructor.
You've been riding horses yourwhole life.
You've run a half marathon.
What has all of that movementand all of that kind of athletic
(02:30):
, sporty stuff meant in yourlife?
What drew you to it?
Jen Steers (02:36):
Honestly, I think just outdoor play, I think you
know as kids it was like gooutside and play, get out of the
house, and we had the fortuneof being those rearranged kids,
right, you hop on your bike, youclimb a tree, you see where you
can go, you just kind ofadventure.
You're off, doing your thingand seeing what's what.
So I think that kind of led tojust a natural outdoors is fun,
(02:58):
moving is fun and it's socialand it's connecting with people
and moving your body.
So the idea of just kind ofsitting around it doesn't feel
right, it doesn't feel natural.
So I think that's it.
And then as you get into thingslike swimming, what more can you
do with it?
Where else can you go?
Like, I like playing around inthe water.
So, okay, I'm going to become alifeguard.
Hey, I can get paid to do this.
(03:19):
Cool, I'm going to teach aquafit why not?
You know, I'm going to join thesynchro team because it's
something to do and it's anactivity and it starts out as
just a after school kind ofthing and then it kind of morphs
into something a little bitmore, and so what does moving
well mean to you now?
Freedom, really Just the idea tobe able to do what I want to do
(03:40):
, so to get outside, to go for ahike, to go for a swim, to
day-to-day pick things up andcarry things and ride my bike,
and so I think it's movement,it's freedom, it's a way to
spend your time as well.
Like the idea of like this ishow I want to spend my time is
(04:00):
doing things.
Susannah Steers (04:03):
I was talking to somebody about the fact that
we were going to have thisconversation today, and this
person knows me as a Pilatesperson and said oh, your sister
does yoga?
And it's really funny because,as, as you know, there are a lot
of people who have verydifferent ideas about what
Pilates and yoga do.
And, "oh my goodness, she's inthe other camp and that's so not
what it was at all.
(04:23):
I am really curious as to whatdrew you to yoga.
What was happening in your lifeat the time?
What got you started?
Jen Steers (04:31):
Honestly, I didn't go to it searching for anything
in particular at all.
I was working at the fitnessfacility that I was running.
Well, I was running a fitnessfacility and there was a yoga
class that was being offered andI just decided why not try it?
You know, I didn't know what itwas about, but so in my mind it
was more just a fitness thingto do, like why not just jump in
(04:54):
the class and see what's whatand and get a chance to try it
out.
But what was different for mewas that I mean, I love doing
different things.
I, you know, I was doingspinning, teaching spinning, but
also love doing differentthings.
I was doing spinning, teachingspinning, but also participating
in spinning.
And sometimes I do aerobics,although I'm not very good at
that, and that's fun.
But this felt different for mein that it felt very grounding.
It quieted my mind.
(05:17):
I've got a pretty busy, activemind there's a lot like a lot of
us do, to be honest, but I gota really busy mind.
So for me, when I can quiet it,it's such a gift.
And so I just noticed, in thispractice it gave me the
opportunity to, yes, move mybody, which I love, but move it
in a way that calmed me down,that quieted me, that grounded
(05:39):
me and that to me, feels verysimilar to when I go for my
walks out in nature, when I'mout with the dogs in the woods,
when I'm, you know, just kind ofin nature.
That quiets me in the same waythat yoga did.
So there's something about thatthat I found really appealing.
Susannah Steers (06:01):
Was this sort of another let's see where it
can go," When you decided to doyour teacher training, or was
there a different reason behindthat choice?
Jen Steers (06:07):
I took the teacher training pretty much very
shortly after I took my firstclass, and it was because I
really really was curious aboutlike I feel good when I do this,
I feel grounded, I feel calm, Ifeel quiet and it lasts for
quite a while after.
What is that about?
And so I want to learn more.
I want to learn why, what wasit about?
What tell me more about thephilosophy and all the, all the
(06:29):
pieces of parts.
So I went into it as a aphysical activity just to work
out, to see what it was andcuriosity, and then then I
delved into the philosophy partand I found that really, really
rich and nourishing and less onthe mat, more in life.
Susannah Steers (06:46):
Well, so let's go there.
I've heard you talk about whatit means to live your yoga.
I guess that might havesomething to do with the other
parts of yoga that aren'ttypically practiced on a mat,
like the philosophical parts.
What does it mean to you tolive your yoga, and maybe can
you give us some examples oftimes when you felt you could
draw on your yoga training tolive your life?
Jen Steers (07:12):
That's a great question To me.
On the mat and on the mat cantranslate off the mat as well.
I tend to be.
I grew up well, grew up.
We grew up very much with theidea of push, go hard, go harder
.
If you're not getting what youwant, go harder still Doesn't
matter.
If you're tired it does notmatter, just keep going, and
(07:34):
sort of that bull in a chinashop mentality.
And so I found for me it wasreally interesting to be able to
kind of work with when is itappropriate to dig down and be
strong and go through discomfort?
And yeah, this is physicallyreally hard, but I'm doing it in
a way where I'm not beatingmyself up.
I'm doing it in a way that ismoving me forward versus this
(07:57):
doesn't make sense.
You're not respecting your body, you're not even paying
attention.
If you have to work this hardat something, probably you're
not even supposed to be doing it.
So, being able to learn in mybody, in my breath, in my mind
when I'm in those places, isthis a moment where I need to
stop, take a breath back up andgo.
(08:18):
How do I reframe this?
How do I redo this?
What makes sense?
Where can some self-care be, oris it?
What are these places whereit's like you know what?
This is a little bit hard, butyou got this find your breath.
Where can you relax so thatyou're not tension filled,
pushing, driving whatever?
Where, if it's like, okay,we're, we're in for a challenge
(08:38):
here, where can you find thesoftness within the work, within
the challenge?
So, um, feeling that in yourbody, but then also very much in
your mind as well, you know,and checking to see where the
mind goes, where the thoughts go, when you go into the spirals
and the stories and all thepieces, you're able to have
those moments of stop, of pause,of taking a breath, of
(08:58):
re-centering.
So I found for me that was huge, and I'm not coming to you
saying I'm an expert and I neverhave a day where I'm not going
in like a tornado in a teacup orwhatever.
That's a weird expression.
But yeah, there's days whereI'll definitely be spiraling,
but there's a lot more dayswhere I'll notice it, I'll feel
(09:18):
it in my body and go, huh,what's that about?
And be curious.
I'd be able to have that momentof pause to reframe, to
restructure, to check in so alot more intentional.
Susannah Steers (09:32):
There's a really interesting thing that
happens when we start to listento our bodies as opposed to just
drive our bodies.
I find the same thing.
I talk a lot about the ideathat movement is my first
language and I think a lot ofpeople think what the hell does
that mean?
How is that possible?
But I think it gets down to alittle bit to what you're
talking about is that desire tobe able to check in and not just
mindlessly bash yourselfthrough life.
(09:55):
And I think the body is often aplace where we can notice it
easily.
Sometimes it's hard to chasethose mental patterns and chase
those emotional habits, but whenwe see it and can recognize the
patterns physically in ourbodies, then we start to
recognize.
Oh yeah, okay, well, we're notcompartmentalized the way we
think we are.
And guess what?
That movement pattern you havein your body kind of probably
(10:17):
shows up somewhere in youremotional life and somewhere in
your mental being.
And how do we integrate?
You have worked in some prettychallenging situations in in
your, in your work life, and Iwould love to hear how, perhaps,
your yoga practice, in itscomprehensive nature, in the
(10:38):
whole whole being of it - howdoes that come into play when
you're working with the peoplethat you're working with?
Jen Steers (10:46):
I think, honestly, it comes into play in that it
keeps me grounded and groundedand in a place of curiosity, and
I try to be also in a place ofcompassion where I'm not
presupposing or judging, orhopefully, if I am, I'm able to
catch it quickly and reframe.
So of course, it's always thechallenge.
I was also, you know, am Itough enough?
(11:07):
Am I strong enough?
Am I hard enough?
And it was funny that I thoughtsomehow it needed to be about
not getting played, that peopleare going to see that I'm not
(11:28):
wise, and so what I foundinteresting, those are the
stories, the insecurities, thestuff that my mind is telling me
you know all those, oh, you'renot good enough to do this, blah
, blah, blah.
All these stories, and what Ireally found was going in there
and taking a deep breath andjust going in with an open heart
and a curiosity and reallytrying to be accepting of the
moment as it's presenting itself, made a huge difference.
(11:50):
And really it's not about beingtough, it's not about being hard
, it's not about enforcing rules, it's about listening, it's
about compassion, it's aboutseeing the other in yourself and
helping people see themselvesagain, not as the issue that
they're dealing with.
That's a piece and part oftheir story, but that is not
their entire story.
They are not the person thatneeds a sandwich and needs to go
(12:14):
get some substance to feelbetter.
That's not who they are.
That's a piece and part oftheir situation.
So that would be some of it.
Let's really get blessed to beable to meet a lot of really
really, really cool people,having a hard time, granted,
absolutely, but a lot of reallycreative people.
A lot of really resilient,strong, interesting characters.
(12:37):
You know what I mean Likereally great people.
So that was one thing I think.
For me that was prettyeye-opening was the power of
coming in going.
I don't know what I'm doingnecessarily, but I'm coming in
with just an open heart and anopen curiosity.
And how can I make this moment?
I can't fix the big picture ofthe world.
(12:57):
I can't make all these changesthat maybe need to be made.
I can't create more beds, Ican't create more mental health
facilities.
Those are things I'm not ableto do.
But in this moment, what can Ido to make this moment perhaps a
little bit easier?
I can remember that you reallylike the sweater green, the
color green, and get you a greensweater, because I found one
(13:21):
that's your size.
I remembered who you were.
I remembered what you liked.
This is important, and I knowyou needed a sweater, and it's
funny how something as simple asthat makes a difference,
because people want to be seen.
Susannah Steers (13:34):
I still remember a story that you told
about a man that you hadconnected about with books, and
how then he sought you outbecause he found a book that he
thought you would like, and Ithought that was really cool.
Jen Steers (13:48):
Oh my God, me too, that was.
That was like oh my heart, Istill have that book.
You know I can't bear to passit on because it's just the fact
that he carried it around inhis pack and and you know you
have to be pretty careful aboutwhat you choose to carry in your
pack.
So the fact that he did thattouched my heart so much, like
it was such a kind, kind, kindthing to do.
(14:09):
He doesn't have a lot and yethe's found this book and he's
carrying it and thinking of me,like how beautiful is that?
You know, some of the peoplethat have the least are the most
generous with what they have.
But the other thing I foundworking with the youth as well
as working in the shelter, andthat is really paying attention,
emotional regulation, payingattention.
(14:31):
And again, in your body, what?
What is yours?
Are you picking up energy thatdoesn't belong to you and are
you now sending it back outthere?
Are you escalating things?
Or are you able to realize whatis your energy and also bring
your energy down to helpde-escalate and help ground and
(14:51):
create a calmer environment?
And it's pretty powerful not totake on something that doesn't
belong to you, because that'snot good and it doesn't feel
good and a lot of the time, ifwe're not conscious about that,
you know we're angry, we're sad,we're stressed and it's not
ours to carry, but we've takenit and that's not helpful for
anybody.
So to be able to find that inyour body as well and I think
(15:13):
yoga has helped open that doorWorking with the horses has
definitely created thatawareness as well, and also
working with people and seeingit works when things are really
elevated, if you focus, not ontrying to control things right
away, but more just focusing onyourself and really paying
attention to what you'rebringing into the room energy
(15:34):
wise and then bringing it down,you can notice a pretty
significant difference.
And also then there's thatmoment of choice again, so
you're not reacting, you're ableto choose and act in the
situation.
What's the best way to act, asopposed to a reaction?
Susannah Steers (15:54):
That space, that moment in between, that
moment in between, it's a lot.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about equine therapy, Like
what is that?
I've heard about it.
Well, okay, I've heard a lotabout it from you, but maybe
some of our listeners don't knowwhat it's about.
Jen Steers (16:07):
So first I want to say I'm calling it equine
therapy more just because that'ssomething that people
understand, more than when I sayequine-assisted learning.
But I want to be really clearhere that I'm not a therapist,
right.
So when I do this work withhorses, sometimes I will team up
with somebody who's a mentalhealth professional.
If we're working with somebody,maybe that has more complex
(16:31):
issues or really needs some moresupport.
That way, you know, I've gotthat expert there.
But I also do equine-assistedlearning, which is sort of like
coaching.
So horses have a huge entericnervous system, basically an
energetic field.
As a prey animal they areconditioned to feeling into
their body.
(16:51):
They don't ask questions.
If they're afraid, they run.
They don't ask oh, I wonderwhat that is.
And so they will run or theywill do what they need to do to
move themselves to safety andthen very shortly after, once
they feel safe, they grace.
So even something as simple asthis we can learn from them,
whereas human beings what weoften do is we feel that feeling
(17:13):
.
So we have the same thing,except not maybe it's as
developed as a horse does, butwe'll feel that feeling of fear.
Then we question it.
I wonder oh, that's ridiculous?
No, I don't think it's that.
We, you know, and sometimes weend up in a situation where we
could have moved ourself tosafety but we didn't.
And then sometimes what we endup doing is we don't let go of
(17:34):
it either.
We relive it, we relive it, werelive it, and that's not good
for our nervous system either,as we make it bigger and more
scary each time, because yourbody actually thinks it's still
happening every time we get intoour stories stories.
with Working with the the horses, basically we spend, we work
with their beautiful energeticfield.
They mirror back a lot of thestuff that they are getting from
(17:54):
us.
So you can see if, working with, sometimes with some of the
younger women and I find inparticular I mean men as well,
but some of the younger womenit's really interesting to see
them be able to find boundariesand actually learn how to say no
and hold their space and do itin a way that's not over the top
(18:17):
and it's not under, but whenthey truly feel it, the horse
will respect it.
The horse, you know awell-rounded horse, obviously
not a horse that's been abusedor has been numbed to the point
that they just kind of trudgedthrough life, but a healthy
horse that has been allowed toexpress itself will mirror back
(18:40):
really beautifully the stuffthat we put out and they will
sit with pain if we're hurtingor they will show us how to set
a boundary or to work with themin a non, you can't.
You can't force a horse to dosomething.
They're big, they're strong,but they also make us pay
attention because they're bigand strong right.
Susannah Steers (18:59):
Well, so are you sitting in a ring with a
horse?
Are you like?
How does it work?
Are you in a field with a bunchof horses?
What does it look like?
Jen Steers (19:08):
You know what, honestly, it really depends.
A lot of the time I'll come inwith a plan or a loose plan of
what we're going to do and thenyou know, after I've spoken with
somebody, and then the horsestell me that plan's not going to
be how it's going to be at all.
So then I trust the horses.
It's a partnership.
It's not me planning and thehorse is a tool.
(19:28):
It's a partnership and a lot ofthe time the horses do most of
the work and I just hold thespace and just help support the,
the person that I'm workingwith, and also make sure that
the environment is safe.
So sometimes it's outside ofthe ring.
I've had people who are afraidof horses, so we do the work
outside of the ring and eventhat work is really good.
(19:49):
In terms of where in your bodydo you feel that discomfort when
you get afraid and what can youdo with that?
How do you get yourself back toa place of safety as well?
Very horse-like.
A horse won't try to please meand sit in discomfort because
they don't want to be aninconvenience.
Humans do that Right.
So when you were able to workwith horses when somebody's
(20:11):
afraid, I worked with a littleboy who was really afraid of
horses and he'd hold his breathand he, you know, he worried
about perfect, and perfect wasso important to him and pleasing
and making sure that everythingwas okay, and his sort of
little tell was he'd blink, buthe wouldn't say I'm scared.
So then when we started to getinto like, what does that feel?
(20:31):
Oh, it feels a bit tight.
Okay, what is tight?
So then we could work with whatis that in your body?
It feels tight.
If you step back, does it stillfeel tight?
No, okay, so we started to beable to.
He started to learn the cues ofwhen is your body telling you
to take a step back and what canyou do to move yourself to a
place of safety, a place whereyou can breathe and think and
(20:53):
you're able to function.
Susannah Steers (20:55):
And now let's work in that space and so now he
has the power to do that on hisown.
Jen Steers (21:01):
He does, yeah, and then he would get to the point
where he would tell me what hewas feeling and what he needed.
Susannah Steers (21:05):
Well, he really does.
It comes back to payingattention to the sensations, to
the experiences in your body and, as you say, sort of taking a
moment once you're aware ofthose things, and then you have
a choice.
You're not just reacting andholding your breath, as this
(21:25):
young boy did.
Jen Steers (21:26):
Yeah, and some people that we lead the horses.
They work with the horses.
It's never on their backs,we're not riding, but sometimes
it's in the ring.
Sometimes it's with one or twohorses, sometimes it's a number,
sometimes it's grooming themand just caring if it touches
something that you haven't hadfor a little bit, or caring for
somebody, or something nice forsomeone, um, with that sort of
(21:49):
unconditional space where you'regoing to be accepted.
Um, sometimes that's whatpeople really want to do.
So it really depends on wherethey, where they want to go,
also with where the really wantto do.
So it really depends on wherethey want to go, also, where the
horses want to go with them.
Susannah Steers (22:03):
It's that relational stuff, right?
I think so often we forget thatwe are in relation to everyone
and everything around us.
I haven't done your equineassisted learning, but I imagine
that that would be a reallypowerful experience to get into
a situation where you do feelthat relationship with another
(22:25):
being, and it's not about wordsand ideas spoken words and ideas
but that mere connection.
You are both beings on theplanet living lives.
Jen Steers (22:38):
I mean, and horses help us go to you know, sort of
that, a little bit more of thatyin state, that state where
we're not driving, I mean, ifwe're on the ground with them.
Anyways, if you're hanging out,let's suppose, with a bunch of
horses, often you're starting tonotice, when they throw their
head out, what are they lookingat, what are noticing what's in
(23:02):
the environment, um, and you'llstart to hear they're eating hay
or grass or and the blowing ofthe breath and it just it brings
you down, it brings you topresent.
You start to see in that widereye.
So instead of the sort of thepredatory gaze of what's
directly in front of you andit's sharp and it's focused,
instead we're looking from thatwider view.
(23:23):
So we're looking more from theeyes of a prey, where what's in
my whole environment, thatsofter, wide eye view.
Susannah Steers (23:32):
So if you think about yin and yang and I don't
know if this is true or not doesit relate in some ways to the
sympathetic and parasympatheticnervous systems, like if we're
talking about the energy states,and so the sympathetic nervous
system being that driving highfocus A to B as fast as you can
get there kind of idea, and theparasympathetic being more like
(23:55):
the yin state where we have thatwider, softer focus.
Jen Steers (24:01):
Exactly, and I think you know the thing is.
I think there's, we need both.
Yes, you know we need both.
We need sun, we need moon, weneed rain, we need you know we
need it all.
But I think we've gone in sucha place in our environment and
everything's fast, everything'sdriven, everything's heal,
everything's driven,everything's heal.
Your life in 10 minutes.
Be the biggest, most successful.
(24:23):
How much did you pack into aday?
So our nervous systems are sojacked up and you know it's,
it's.
I find it interesting when I'mwith people and we're going for
a walk, let's suppose, and theydon't see the flowers or the
birds or the sunset, or they'renot seeing anything, and I'm
like, how did you not see thatsunset?
(24:44):
And I'm not being judgy, it'sjust it was huge.
How did you miss it?
But that's not where they needmaybe a little more help and
support and time to be able toslow it down a little bit and
instead of thinking the next 12things you need to do, can you
take a moment to look at thesunset?
Um, so there's, there's placefor both.
(25:05):
We definitely need both.
It's how do you marry the twoso that you can be productive
and you can drive and you canmove forward, you can get things
done.
But there's also that where canyou slow down, where can you
feel?
Where's the space forcreativity or for beauty or for
breath and for just slowing downand seeing all the wonders
(25:26):
around us?
And I think that is huge foryour mental and physical
well-being.
But mental health-wise I thinkit's huge think it's huge.
Susannah Steers (25:42):
One of my great mentors, Howard L Jones, was a
physio and he was way ahead ofhis time with all kinds of
cranial and fascial work.
He used to describe it as astate of "autonomic flexibility.
It's not that either one is amore desired state.
It's the ability to flip andmove seamlessly and fluidly
between those things as you needthem.
We need to be able to have thatdrive, that push, that focus
(26:03):
when we need it, but we alsoneed to be able to step back.
Jen Steers (26:07):
I agree, and horses do that.
They'll run from danger.
So they're picking it up,they're going, they're doing
what they need to do, but thenthey let it go, so they're able
to let it go, and you'll seethem grazing.
A minute and a half ago, youwere running, you know, a bag
flew through the air.
Was it dangerous?
(26:27):
No, but did you perceive it wasyes, and you're not taking a
minute to ask questions.
You're, you're making sureyou're faster than your friend,
you're out of there and then,and then you let it go, so you
didn't keep the story spiraling.
So, like what you say, there'sthat fluidity and as people, we
(26:48):
get locked in our stories a lot,which is, I think, where we
have trouble shifting as well,as we get stuck in the story and
then the ego jumps in yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but.
Or we identify with the storyor the victim situation or
whatever came through.
Susannah Steers (27:05):
It's not something that you can learn in
an instant or in one class,whether you're learning it on a
yoga mat, whether you knowwherever it comes to you.
This kind of learning, and youand I obviously have found our
own ways into this kind ofthinking through movement of one
kind or another, throughrelationship with animals,
movement of one kind or anotherthrough relationship with
(27:29):
animals with nature.
It really is a practice, though, isn't it Like it's something
that takes a while to recognizein yourself and in your
situation, and then it alsotakes a while to figure out how
to feel that space between oh,this thing is happening and I'm
just going to react, you know,to sort of curate or allow for
(27:49):
that space where you have amoment to make a different
choice.
And it's interesting becausewe've been talking about the
fast pace of the world, and itseems to me and I've spoken
about it on this podcast we'reseeking transformation, you know
, a transformational change, amajor shift that's going to flip
a switch, and my life is goingto be different and I'm going to
(28:09):
be better, and I'm going to doall the things I want to do, and
I'm going to be able to do itin a hurry.
It's like the 10 easy lessons,right?
So I find I'm getting allergicto transformational change.
There are a few things that,yes, you can make a change, you
can see it different, but whenyou walk away from a workshop or
(28:31):
a class or something, there'sgot to be a way for you to carry
what you've learned into yourlife.
And if you're making a bigchange, that doesn't happen in
an instant and I feel like wehave to get used to the idea of
small, meaningful changes.
Consistent practice,groundedness.
(28:53):
It's not sexy, it's notsupercharged, it's you know,
oftentimes it's quite boringbecause you're doing daily small
things.
I would love to hear yourthoughts on that.
I agree, I agree it frustratesme when I see the change your
life in 10 minutes or you'llnever have a sad day, or all
(29:16):
those kind of things.
And people go to them and I'vegone to, I've gone to, "hey,
this sounds pretty good, I'mgoing to sign up for it, and
then kind of a disappointed byit.
You know you're hyped, you'reready to go and I know my life's
purpose by the end of thisweekend, and then I leave and
that's not how it was.
And I mean at the end of theday, I know that, just like it
(29:37):
would be fun to lose weight in30 seconds as well, but that's
not how it goes right.
But I find in yoga and maybesome other spiritual practices
as well, is what I findunfortunate is that the beauty
of it is the daily practice, isthe ahas, is the struggles, the
(30:00):
oh.
I tried this.
Oh, hey, my old pattern cameback, but this time I had a
second to notice it, which wasway better before, because
before I didn't even notice it,I didn't even know I had it a
month before that.
So I find that there's a lot ofpeople peddling stuff that
maybe isn't really true orspiritually bypassing.
(30:20):
If I come in as a teacher and Icome in and I pretend that I'm
calm every moment of the day andI've arrived and I don't have
any of these struggles anymore,am I being authentic?
Am I being honest?
Or maybe I don't even want tolook at my own work?
Maybe I don't have any of that,because I go oh, I don't want
to touch that, I don't want tolearn, I don't want to be
curious about why I do what I door why I think what I think.
(30:42):
There's no authenticity there,and you always feel that on some
level.
What I find unfortunate, though,is people sometimes, when
they're really, reallystruggling, are willing almost
to hand over their power, andthat is concerning to me,
because people aren't broken andpeople have what they need to
(31:03):
have to heal themselves, andwhen you find a really good
teacher, that teacher can maybehelp create that space and
container and help you with sometools and some practices and
some different modalities tokind of help you get there.
But, at the end of the day, theperson is in charge of their
own work, their own life, theirown story, and has all the power
(31:25):
and is able to heal themselves.
And anyone implying that you'rebroken or that you don't have
the power, or that I have thepower to do that, to you I would
say walk away.
No, run, run away.
Yes, turn and run.
And I do see that I see thatadvertised a lot, where they're
preying on your woundedness, um,you know in social media a lot
(31:48):
and also the, the quick fix, andthat's unfortunate.
One of one of my teachers, who,who I I have huge regard for, we
did, uh, numerous trainings.
Well, he trained me numerousfor many years, Pete Bernard,
in energy work and one of thethings he says about you know,
(32:10):
sometimes you do have fairly big, big ahas or breakthroughs, and
the body's ready for it, and ithappens, but that's not the
norm.
But it doesn't mean that thisbreakthrough was a big one and
is therefore it was a was areally, really good one.
The small one, the littlemoment, is, is not a
breakthrough, it's not healing,um, and so then it's not chasing
(32:33):
the big, the big reactions, thebig breakthroughs.
I'm sure you see that in yourwork too.
See where you know, one daymaybe somebody's hip opens up in
a way that never has before um,and so they.
But you can't chase that,because the next week they're
not going to have the same thing, but they're still making those
progresses and steps.
And what I like what he says ishe says we all like to drink
water, but we shouldn't drink itfrom a fire hose.
(32:57):
And so he talks about thenervous system.
Yeah, and I like that.
I think it's true, it's true,you know.
Jen Steers (33:02):
So the nervous system doesn't want to drink
water out of a fire hose.
It's too much, it's too, it'stoo intense, it's too crazy.
And so chasing the bigreactions all the time isn't
even good for us a lot of thetime and is not something that
we're able to hold onto, but,like you say, it's not exciting.
Susannah Steers (33:21):
Yeah, it's not sexy on the Instagram, that
daily work.
So I want to bring it backaround to yoga after our
discussion about all thattransformational change, and I
want to talk about the classexperience, like when you go.
I know I find this in Pilatestoo.
(33:42):
You can come to a Pilates classand you can bash out the
exercises the teacher gives youand walk away and you've had a
workout and that's fine.
It gives you something.
But if you, while you werethere, are paying attention to
your movement patterns and howyou engage with the springs and
the weights and with your bodyin different ways, how your
(34:02):
breathing works with your core,noticing all the patterns in
your movement, then you canleave the class and then, as you
are walking around in your lifeand playing with your kids and
doing your dishes and all ofthose things, you have different
skills for managing the work ofyour life.
(34:23):
I'm curious if you find there'sa relatable parallel to yoga
class.
Jen Steers (34:32):
Absolutely very much .
So I find you can, just as howI did.
I went into yoga as a I'm goingto be moving my body.
It's being offered at the gym,it's an exercise modality.
I'm going to give it a go andit is, and there's definitely
benefits to moving your body andyou can approach it as an
(34:53):
exercise class and that's fineand you're definitely getting a
benefit.
I'm never going to say don't,why not, why not move your body?
And maybe you're coming formovement, for flexibility, for
stability, maybe you're comingto do something with some
friends All good, these are allgood things to do.
Exercise opportunity, whereassome of the other people I have
(35:15):
have been coming for years withme and they, you know they're
more into the practice.
Is that I just invite theopportunity that it could be
more?
It could be a practice, it couldbe an exercise class, and
(35:38):
that's okay.
We're going to move our bodyand I'll tell you how to do it
in a manner that feels safe.
But if you're open to exploringthe practice, then it would be
things like really payingattention to the breath and when
let's suppose that you're notable to breathe while you're
holding a strong pose, do youforego the breath to keep the
(36:02):
pose going, in which case, ifyou're doing a yoga practice, I
might ask you to check in withyour thoughts and see what your
thoughts are around.
Why are you holding this posewhen right now, your body's
having a hard time with it?
You know so.
Yes, I understand you want tobuild strength.
I get that.
But if you're going to a placewhere now you're not maintaining
(36:23):
form or you're struggling, isthere be curious about what your
thoughts are?
What is going on in your mind?
Is there judgment?
Is there lack?
Is there attachment?
Is there?
You know?
Are you able to back out of thepose a little bit and can find
your breath again, find yourform again and notice there now?
Is there thoughts about?
(36:43):
Is there judgments around that?
So, just kind of getting tonotice different things that
come up in the practice andsometimes sitting through
discomfort.
So we talk about I'll say not torescue yourself, and sometimes
that means something as simpleas shavasana at the end, where
you're lying in stillness.
Um, I can see sometimes, youknow it's's really really
(37:06):
difficult for people.
They're trying to look at theirwatches and you know what is.
You know what did the workoutlook like on their watch.
What time is it?
Where are they going to go?
You can tell they're thinkingabout other things.
They just lying around on theground is driving them crazy.
I felt that before too.
So I'm not saying it in ajudgmental place.
But to sit with that, to go,okay, you know what?
(37:26):
Can you sit in stillness?
Can you lie in the stillnessand notice?
Yeah, you're kind of antsy here.
Your mind is busy, your body'sfidgety, you want to get up, you
want to go, you want to getgoing, but I'm asking you to
find that stillness and bepresent for a little minute.
And then what comes up for you?
So, yeah, I'm uncomfortable ashell.
Okay, can you just sit withthat, see what's on the other
(37:49):
side of it, be curious, don't bemean about it.
Just notice what's on the otherside of that.
Will it reveal something to you?
And generally, the harder it isto do that to take those five
minutes of just sitting instillness or lying in stillness
and letting whatever be, be,whatever comes up.
Whatever comes up comes up andyou're not changing it or trying
to fix it or rescue yourself,but just sit with it and see
(38:10):
where it is.
The harder it is, probably themore.
We need to do some of that.
That's sort of how you canchoose to play with it in your
practice.
But it's kind of to come into ayoga practice and say, you know,
as a, as a spiritual practice,I think that part really is
living your life off the mat.
So to come in it's kind of likegoing to church.
(38:31):
You can go to church and go andsit in church for an hour and
enjoy the service and think ofall the good things that you
should do.
But are you able when you walkout in life here's where the
opportunities are we kind ofplant the little seeds of the
practice.
Now, when you're in life, canyou have those seeds kind of
grow a little bit?
Take those moments.
Susannah Steers (38:51):
So, Jen, if people are interested in finding
you, are you doing onlineclasses?
Are you doing like?
Where can people find you,Either in the Ottawa area or if
they're outside of Ottawa?
Jen Steers (39:06):
Okay, what I'm working on my own self right now
is that idea of not waiting forthe perfect.
If you want to find me rightnow you're not going to find a
snazzy webpage because I don'thave it yet you know you could
find me on Facebook, so you canfind me there.
You can find me on Instagram,Jen Steers.
I have a little bit of a socialmedia.
(39:28):
I'm doing little reels on myphone, so if you want to reach
me at this moment, it wouldprobably be the easiest way it
would be through Facebook orMessenger or Instagram, and I
think they're going to getposted up on the show notes how
to find those.
So, yeah, feel free to readthem.
And I do one-on-one.
I can do one-on-one online, Ican do one-on-one in person.
(39:51):
I've also done and continue todo, you know, workshops for
offices or mental health orwellness workshops.
I've done that for schools too.
I've done some girls day schoolthings with the guidance
department, and then alsoone-on-ones corporates or a
(40:12):
person.
If you're in the Ottawa area,that's great.
Susannah Steers (40:17):
Well, Jen, I've got to say living 2,000 miles
and change apart is always hard,but it's great to be able to
spend a little bit of time withyou today and to get to share
you with my people.
Jen Steers (40:28):
I love spending time with you, too, all the time.
Susannah Steers (40:31):
All the time, all right, well, take care and
I'll see you soon.
Jen Steers (40:35):
Thank you for having me.
Susannah Steers (40:36):
Thanks for coming.
Take care.
Bye,
Jen Steers (40:38):
All right.
Bye.
Susannah Steers (40:41):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Subscribe and, if you love whatyou heard, leave a five-star
review and tell people what youenjoyed most.
Join me here again in a coupleof weeks For now let's get
moving.
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast.
I'm Susanna Steers and I'll beyour host as we explore the
heart, soul and science ofmovement as a pathway to more
active, vibrant and connectedliving.
Nothing happens until somethingmoves, so let's get started.
Today, I have the great pleasureof introducing you to someone I
(00:22):
have admired for a very, verylong time.
We grew up together.
My guest on this episode is mybest friend, my sister, my
partner in crime.
She absolutely knows where allthe bodies are buried.
She won't tell you this, but Ithink she's one of the most real
and courageous people I know.
Her movement practice is trulyintegrated with her life and
(00:45):
that's one of the many reasonsthat I wanted to share her with
you.
Over the course of her career,jen Steers has been dedicated to
coordinating fitness facilitiesand community programs in
Ottawa housing neighborhoods.
During COVID, she worked inemergency housing and homeless
shelters a big growth experiencefor her.
In challenging times, jen ispassionate about working with
(01:08):
people and finding ways to buildbetter systems and
relationships, especially withthe most vulnerable populations.
She integrates yoga,mindfulness, equine therapy and
energy work into her daily lifeand into challenging situations.
Her practice doesn't requirebeautiful, quiet, zen-like
settings, because life is hectic, awesome, real and raw, and
(01:31):
this is where her training andskills are the most helpful.
After a successful career, jenretired last summer from the
city of Ottawa and is nowoffering one-on-one coaching
group training and corporatewellness workshops in yoga.
Now offering one-on-onecoaching group training and
corporate wellness workshops inyoga, mindfulness, equine
therapy and energy healing.
Jen believes that thesemodalities, though different,
(01:54):
have many similarities and canbe mixed and matched to be
relatable for her clients,promoting better physical,
mental and emotional health.
Hey, Jen, welcome to thepodcast.
Jen Steers (02:03):
Oh, my goodness, what an introduction.
You got me all teary.
Susannah Steers (02:08):
Well, you know it comes from the heart.
I always know you, even fromthe time you were really little.
You were always an athletic kid.
You went to the juniornationals with the synchro team.
You were a lifeguard andaquatics instructor.
You've been riding horses yourwhole life.
You've run a half marathon.
What has all of that movementand all of that kind of athletic
(02:30):
, sporty stuff meant in yourlife?
What drew you to it?
Jen Steers (02:36):
Honestly, I think just outdoor play, I think you
know as kids it was like gooutside and play, get out of the
house, and we had the fortuneof being those rearranged kids,
right, you hop on your bike, youclimb a tree, you see where you
can go, you just kind ofadventure.
You're off, doing your thingand seeing what's what.
So I think that kind of led tojust a natural outdoors is fun,
(02:58):
moving is fun and it's socialand it's connecting with people
and moving your body.
So the idea of just kind ofsitting around it doesn't feel
right, it doesn't feel natural.
So I think that's it.
And then as you get into thingslike swimming, what more can you
do with it?
Where else can you go?
Like, I like playing around inthe water.
So, okay, I'm going to become alifeguard.
Hey, I can get paid to do this.
(03:19):
Cool, I'm going to teach aquafit why not?
You know, I'm going to join thesynchro team because it's
something to do and it's anactivity and it starts out as
just a after school kind ofthing and then it kind of morphs
into something a little bitmore, and so what does moving
well mean to you now?
Freedom, really Just the idea tobe able to do what I want to do
(03:40):
, so to get outside, to go for ahike, to go for a swim, to
day-to-day pick things up andcarry things and ride my bike,
and so I think it's movement,it's freedom, it's a way to
spend your time as well.
Like the idea of like this ishow I want to spend my time is
(04:00):
doing things.
Susannah Steers (04:03):
I was talking to somebody about the fact that
we were going to have thisconversation today, and this
person knows me as a Pilatesperson and said oh, your sister
does yoga?
And it's really funny because,as, as you know, there are a lot
of people who have verydifferent ideas about what
Pilates and yoga do.
And, "oh my goodness, she's inthe other camp and that's so not
what it was at all.
(04:23):
I am really curious as to whatdrew you to yoga.
What was happening in your lifeat the time?
What got you started?
Jen Steers (04:31):
Honestly, I didn't go to it searching for anything
in particular at all.
I was working at the fitnessfacility that I was running.
Well, I was running a fitnessfacility and there was a yoga
class that was being offered andI just decided why not try it?
You know, I didn't know what itwas about, but so in my mind it
was more just a fitness thingto do, like why not just jump in
(04:54):
the class and see what's whatand and get a chance to try it
out.
But what was different for mewas that I mean, I love doing
different things.
I, you know, I was doingspinning, teaching spinning, but
also love doing differentthings.
I was doing spinning, teachingspinning, but also participating
in spinning.
And sometimes I do aerobics,although I'm not very good at
that, and that's fun.
But this felt different for mein that it felt very grounding.
It quieted my mind.
(05:17):
I've got a pretty busy, activemind there's a lot like a lot of
us do, to be honest, but I gota really busy mind.
So for me, when I can quiet it,it's such a gift.
And so I just noticed, in thispractice it gave me the
opportunity to, yes, move mybody, which I love, but move it
in a way that calmed me down,that quieted me, that grounded
(05:39):
me and that to me, feels verysimilar to when I go for my
walks out in nature, when I'mout with the dogs in the woods,
when I'm, you know, just kind ofin nature.
That quiets me in the same waythat yoga did.
So there's something about thatthat I found really appealing.
Susannah Steers (06:01):
Was this sort of another let's see where it
can go," When you decided to doyour teacher training, or was
there a different reason behindthat choice?
Jen Steers (06:07):
I took the teacher training pretty much very
shortly after I took my firstclass, and it was because I
really really was curious aboutlike I feel good when I do this,
I feel grounded, I feel calm, Ifeel quiet and it lasts for
quite a while after.
What is that about?
And so I want to learn more.
I want to learn why, what wasit about?
What tell me more about thephilosophy and all the, all the
(06:29):
pieces of parts.
So I went into it as a aphysical activity just to work
out, to see what it was andcuriosity, and then then I
delved into the philosophy partand I found that really, really
rich and nourishing and less onthe mat, more in life.
Susannah Steers (06:46):
Well, so let's go there.
I've heard you talk about whatit means to live your yoga.
I guess that might havesomething to do with the other
parts of yoga that aren'ttypically practiced on a mat,
like the philosophical parts.
What does it mean to you tolive your yoga, and maybe can
you give us some examples oftimes when you felt you could
draw on your yoga training tolive your life?
Jen Steers (07:12):
That's a great question To me.
On the mat and on the mat cantranslate off the mat as well.
I tend to be.
I grew up well, grew up.
We grew up very much with theidea of push, go hard, go harder
.
If you're not getting what youwant, go harder still Doesn't
matter.
If you're tired it does notmatter, just keep going, and
(07:34):
sort of that bull in a chinashop mentality.
And so I found for me it wasreally interesting to be able to
kind of work with when is itappropriate to dig down and be
strong and go through discomfort?
And yeah, this is physicallyreally hard, but I'm doing it in
a way where I'm not beatingmyself up.
I'm doing it in a way that ismoving me forward versus this
(07:57):
doesn't make sense.
You're not respecting your body, you're not even paying
attention.
If you have to work this hardat something, probably you're
not even supposed to be doing it.
So, being able to learn in mybody, in my breath, in my mind
when I'm in those places, isthis a moment where I need to
stop, take a breath back up andgo.
(08:18):
How do I reframe this?
How do I redo this?
What makes sense?
Where can some self-care be, oris it?
What are these places whereit's like you know what?
This is a little bit hard, butyou got this find your breath.
Where can you relax so thatyou're not tension filled,
pushing, driving whatever?
Where, if it's like, okay,we're, we're in for a challenge
(08:38):
here, where can you find thesoftness within the work, within
the challenge?
So, um, feeling that in yourbody, but then also very much in
your mind as well, you know,and checking to see where the
mind goes, where the thoughts go, when you go into the spirals
and the stories and all thepieces, you're able to have
those moments of stop, of pause,of taking a breath, of
(08:58):
re-centering.
So I found for me that was huge, and I'm not coming to you
saying I'm an expert and I neverhave a day where I'm not going
in like a tornado in a teacup orwhatever.
That's a weird expression.
But yeah, there's days whereI'll definitely be spiraling,
but there's a lot more dayswhere I'll notice it, I'll feel
(09:18):
it in my body and go, huh,what's that about?
And be curious.
I'd be able to have that momentof pause to reframe, to
restructure, to check in so alot more intentional.
Susannah Steers (09:32):
There's a really interesting thing that
happens when we start to listento our bodies as opposed to just
drive our bodies.
I find the same thing.
I talk a lot about the ideathat movement is my first
language and I think a lot ofpeople think what the hell does
that mean?
How is that possible?
But I think it gets down to alittle bit to what you're
talking about is that desire tobe able to check in and not just
mindlessly bash yourselfthrough life.
(09:55):
And I think the body is often aplace where we can notice it
easily.
Sometimes it's hard to chasethose mental patterns and chase
those emotional habits, but whenwe see it and can recognize the
patterns physically in ourbodies, then we start to
recognize.
Oh yeah, okay, well, we're notcompartmentalized the way we
think we are.
And guess what?
That movement pattern you havein your body kind of probably
(10:17):
shows up somewhere in youremotional life and somewhere in
your mental being.
And how do we integrate?
You have worked in some prettychallenging situations in in
your, in your work life, and Iwould love to hear how, perhaps,
your yoga practice, in itscomprehensive nature, in the
(10:38):
whole whole being of it - howdoes that come into play when
you're working with the peoplethat you're working with?
Jen Steers (10:46):
I think, honestly, it comes into play in that it
keeps me grounded and groundedand in a place of curiosity, and
I try to be also in a place ofcompassion where I'm not
presupposing or judging, orhopefully, if I am, I'm able to
catch it quickly and reframe.
So of course, it's always thechallenge.
I was also, you know, am Itough enough?
(11:07):
Am I strong enough?
Am I hard enough?
And it was funny that I thoughtsomehow it needed to be about
not getting played, that peopleare going to see that I'm not
(11:28):
wise, and so what I foundinteresting, those are the
stories, the insecurities, thestuff that my mind is telling me
you know all those, oh, you'renot good enough to do this, blah
, blah, blah.
All these stories, and what Ireally found was going in there
and taking a deep breath andjust going in with an open heart
and a curiosity and reallytrying to be accepting of the
moment as it's presenting itself, made a huge difference.
(11:50):
And really it's not about beingtough, it's not about being hard
, it's not about enforcing rules, it's about listening, it's
about compassion, it's aboutseeing the other in yourself and
helping people see themselvesagain, not as the issue that
they're dealing with.
That's a piece and part oftheir story, but that is not
their entire story.
They are not the person thatneeds a sandwich and needs to go
(12:14):
get some substance to feelbetter.
That's not who they are.
That's a piece and part oftheir situation.
So that would be some of it.
Let's really get blessed to beable to meet a lot of really
really, really cool people,having a hard time, granted,
absolutely, but a lot of reallycreative people.
A lot of really resilient,strong, interesting characters.
(12:37):
You know what I mean Likereally great people.
So that was one thing I think.
For me that was prettyeye-opening was the power of
coming in going.
I don't know what I'm doingnecessarily, but I'm coming in
with just an open heart and anopen curiosity.
And how can I make this moment?
I can't fix the big picture ofthe world.
(12:57):
I can't make all these changesthat maybe need to be made.
I can't create more beds, Ican't create more mental health
facilities.
Those are things I'm not ableto do.
But in this moment, what can Ido to make this moment perhaps a
little bit easier?
I can remember that you reallylike the sweater green, the
color green, and get you a greensweater, because I found one
(13:21):
that's your size.
I remembered who you were.
I remembered what you liked.
This is important, and I knowyou needed a sweater, and it's
funny how something as simple asthat makes a difference,
because people want to be seen.
Susannah Steers (13:34):
I still remember a story that you told
about a man that you hadconnected about with books, and
how then he sought you outbecause he found a book that he
thought you would like, and Ithought that was really cool.
Jen Steers (13:48):
Oh my God, me too, that was.
That was like oh my heart, Istill have that book.
You know I can't bear to passit on because it's just the fact
that he carried it around inhis pack and and you know you
have to be pretty careful aboutwhat you choose to carry in your
pack.
So the fact that he did thattouched my heart so much, like
it was such a kind, kind, kindthing to do.
(14:09):
He doesn't have a lot and yethe's found this book and he's
carrying it and thinking of me,like how beautiful is that?
You know, some of the peoplethat have the least are the most
generous with what they have.
But the other thing I foundworking with the youth as well
as working in the shelter, andthat is really paying attention,
emotional regulation, payingattention.
(14:31):
And again, in your body, what?
What is yours?
Are you picking up energy thatdoesn't belong to you and are
you now sending it back outthere?
Are you escalating things?
Or are you able to realize whatis your energy and also bring
your energy down to helpde-escalate and help ground and
(14:51):
create a calmer environment?
And it's pretty powerful not totake on something that doesn't
belong to you, because that'snot good and it doesn't feel
good and a lot of the time, ifwe're not conscious about that,
you know we're angry, we're sad,we're stressed and it's not
ours to carry, but we've takenit and that's not helpful for
anybody.
So to be able to find that inyour body as well and I think
(15:13):
yoga has helped open that doorWorking with the horses has
definitely created thatawareness as well, and also
working with people and seeingit works when things are really
elevated, if you focus, not ontrying to control things right
away, but more just focusing onyourself and really paying
attention to what you'rebringing into the room energy
(15:34):
wise and then bringing it down,you can notice a pretty
significant difference.
And also then there's thatmoment of choice again, so
you're not reacting, you're ableto choose and act in the
situation.
What's the best way to act, asopposed to a reaction?
Susannah Steers (15:54):
That space, that moment in between, that
moment in between, it's a lot.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about equine therapy, Like
what is that?
I've heard about it.
Well, okay, I've heard a lotabout it from you, but maybe
some of our listeners don't knowwhat it's about.
Jen Steers (16:07):
So first I want to say I'm calling it equine
therapy more just because that'ssomething that people
understand, more than when I sayequine-assisted learning.
But I want to be really clearhere that I'm not a therapist,
right.
So when I do this work withhorses, sometimes I will team up
with somebody who's a mentalhealth professional.
If we're working with somebody,maybe that has more complex
(16:31):
issues or really needs some moresupport.
That way, you know, I've gotthat expert there.
But I also do equine-assistedlearning, which is sort of like
coaching.
So horses have a huge entericnervous system, basically an
energetic field.
As a prey animal they areconditioned to feeling into
their body.
(16:51):
They don't ask questions.
If they're afraid, they run.
They don't ask oh, I wonderwhat that is.
And so they will run or theywill do what they need to do to
move themselves to safety andthen very shortly after, once
they feel safe, they grace.
So even something as simple asthis we can learn from them,
whereas human beings what weoften do is we feel that feeling
(17:13):
.
So we have the same thing,except not maybe it's as
developed as a horse does, butwe'll feel that feeling of fear.
Then we question it.
I wonder oh, that's ridiculous?
No, I don't think it's that.
We, you know, and sometimes weend up in a situation where we
could have moved ourself tosafety but we didn't.
And then sometimes what we endup doing is we don't let go of
(17:34):
it either.
We relive it, we relive it, werelive it, and that's not good
for our nervous system either,as we make it bigger and more
scary each time, because yourbody actually thinks it's still
happening every time we get intoour stories stories.
with Working with the the horses, basically we spend, we work
with their beautiful energeticfield.
They mirror back a lot of thestuff that they are getting from
(17:54):
us.
So you can see if, working with, sometimes with some of the
younger women and I find inparticular I mean men as well,
but some of the younger womenit's really interesting to see
them be able to find boundariesand actually learn how to say no
and hold their space and do itin a way that's not over the top
(18:17):
and it's not under, but whenthey truly feel it, the horse
will respect it.
The horse, you know awell-rounded horse, obviously
not a horse that's been abusedor has been numbed to the point
that they just kind of trudgedthrough life, but a healthy
horse that has been allowed toexpress itself will mirror back
(18:40):
really beautifully the stuffthat we put out and they will
sit with pain if we're hurtingor they will show us how to set
a boundary or to work with themin a non, you can't.
You can't force a horse to dosomething.
They're big, they're strong,but they also make us pay
attention because they're bigand strong right.
Susannah Steers (18:59):
Well, so are you sitting in a ring with a
horse?
Are you like?
How does it work?
Are you in a field with a bunchof horses?
What does it look like?
Jen Steers (19:08):
You know what, honestly, it really depends.
A lot of the time I'll come inwith a plan or a loose plan of
what we're going to do and thenyou know, after I've spoken with
somebody, and then the horsestell me that plan's not going to
be how it's going to be at all.
So then I trust the horses.
It's a partnership.
It's not me planning and thehorse is a tool.
(19:28):
It's a partnership and a lot ofthe time the horses do most of
the work and I just hold thespace and just help support the,
the person that I'm workingwith, and also make sure that
the environment is safe.
So sometimes it's outside ofthe ring.
I've had people who are afraidof horses, so we do the work
outside of the ring and eventhat work is really good.
(19:49):
In terms of where in your bodydo you feel that discomfort when
you get afraid and what can youdo with that?
How do you get yourself back toa place of safety as well?
Very horse-like.
A horse won't try to please meand sit in discomfort because
they don't want to be aninconvenience.
Humans do that Right.
So when you were able to workwith horses when somebody's
(20:11):
afraid, I worked with a littleboy who was really afraid of
horses and he'd hold his breathand he, you know, he worried
about perfect, and perfect wasso important to him and pleasing
and making sure that everythingwas okay, and his sort of
little tell was he'd blink, buthe wouldn't say I'm scared.
So then when we started to getinto like, what does that feel?
(20:31):
Oh, it feels a bit tight.
Okay, what is tight?
So then we could work with whatis that in your body?
It feels tight.
If you step back, does it stillfeel tight?
No, okay, so we started to beable to.
He started to learn the cues ofwhen is your body telling you
to take a step back and what canyou do to move yourself to a
place of safety, a place whereyou can breathe and think and
(20:53):
you're able to function.
Susannah Steers (20:55):
And now let's work in that space and so now he
has the power to do that on hisown.
Jen Steers (21:01):
He does, yeah, and then he would get to the point
where he would tell me what hewas feeling and what he needed.
Susannah Steers (21:05):
Well, he really does.
It comes back to payingattention to the sensations, to
the experiences in your body and, as you say, sort of taking a
moment once you're aware ofthose things, and then you have
a choice.
You're not just reacting andholding your breath, as this
(21:25):
young boy did.
Jen Steers (21:26):
Yeah, and some people that we lead the horses.
They work with the horses.
It's never on their backs,we're not riding, but sometimes
it's in the ring.
Sometimes it's with one or twohorses, sometimes it's a number,
sometimes it's grooming themand just caring if it touches
something that you haven't hadfor a little bit, or caring for
somebody, or something nice forsomeone, um, with that sort of
(21:49):
unconditional space where you'regoing to be accepted.
Um, sometimes that's whatpeople really want to do.
So it really depends on wherethey, where they want to go,
also with where the really wantto do.
So it really depends on wherethey want to go, also, where the
horses want to go with them.
Susannah Steers (22:03):
It's that relational stuff, right?
I think so often we forget thatwe are in relation to everyone
and everything around us.
I haven't done your equineassisted learning, but I imagine
that that would be a reallypowerful experience to get into
a situation where you do feelthat relationship with another
(22:25):
being, and it's not about wordsand ideas spoken words and ideas
but that mere connection.
You are both beings on theplanet living lives.
Jen Steers (22:38):
I mean, and horses help us go to you know, sort of
that, a little bit more of thatyin state, that state where
we're not driving, I mean, ifwe're on the ground with them.
Anyways, if you're hanging out,let's suppose, with a bunch of
horses, often you're starting tonotice, when they throw their
head out, what are they lookingat, what are noticing what's in
(23:02):
the environment, um, and you'llstart to hear they're eating hay
or grass or and the blowing ofthe breath and it just it brings
you down, it brings you topresent.
You start to see in that widereye.
So instead of the sort of thepredatory gaze of what's
directly in front of you andit's sharp and it's focused,
instead we're looking from thatwider view.
(23:23):
So we're looking more from theeyes of a prey, where what's in
my whole environment, thatsofter, wide eye view.
Susannah Steers (23:32):
So if you think about yin and yang and I don't
know if this is true or not doesit relate in some ways to the
sympathetic and parasympatheticnervous systems, like if we're
talking about the energy states,and so the sympathetic nervous
system being that driving highfocus A to B as fast as you can
get there kind of idea, and theparasympathetic being more like
(23:55):
the yin state where we have thatwider, softer focus.
Jen Steers (24:01):
Exactly, and I think you know the thing is.
I think there's, we need both.
Yes, you know we need both.
We need sun, we need moon, weneed rain, we need you know we
need it all.
But I think we've gone in sucha place in our environment and
everything's fast, everything'sdriven, everything's heal,
everything's driven,everything's heal.
Your life in 10 minutes.
Be the biggest, most successful.
(24:23):
How much did you pack into aday?
So our nervous systems are sojacked up and you know it's,
it's.
I find it interesting when I'mwith people and we're going for
a walk, let's suppose, and theydon't see the flowers or the
birds or the sunset, or they'renot seeing anything, and I'm
like, how did you not see thatsunset?
(24:44):
And I'm not being judgy, it'sjust it was huge.
How did you miss it?
But that's not where they needmaybe a little more help and
support and time to be able toslow it down a little bit and
instead of thinking the next 12things you need to do, can you
take a moment to look at thesunset?
Um, so there's, there's placefor both.
(25:05):
We definitely need both.
It's how do you marry the twoso that you can be productive
and you can drive and you canmove forward, you can get things
done.
But there's also that where canyou slow down, where can you
feel?
Where's the space forcreativity or for beauty or for
breath and for just slowing downand seeing all the wonders
(25:26):
around us?
And I think that is huge foryour mental and physical
well-being.
But mental health-wise I thinkit's huge think it's huge.
Susannah Steers (25:42):
One of my great mentors, Howard L Jones, was a
physio and he was way ahead ofhis time with all kinds of
cranial and fascial work.
He used to describe it as astate of "autonomic flexibility.
It's not that either one is amore desired state.
It's the ability to flip andmove seamlessly and fluidly
between those things as you needthem.
We need to be able to have thatdrive, that push, that focus
(26:03):
when we need it, but we alsoneed to be able to step back.
Jen Steers (26:07):
I agree, and horses do that.
They'll run from danger.
So they're picking it up,they're going, they're doing
what they need to do, but thenthey let it go, so they're able
to let it go, and you'll seethem grazing.
A minute and a half ago, youwere running, you know, a bag
flew through the air.
Was it dangerous?
(26:27):
No, but did you perceive it wasyes, and you're not taking a
minute to ask questions.
You're, you're making sureyou're faster than your friend,
you're out of there and then,and then you let it go, so you
didn't keep the story spiraling.
So, like what you say, there'sthat fluidity and as people, we
(26:48):
get locked in our stories a lot,which is, I think, where we
have trouble shifting as well,as we get stuck in the story and
then the ego jumps in yeah, but, yeah, but, yeah, but.
Or we identify with the storyor the victim situation or
whatever came through.
Susannah Steers (27:05):
It's not something that you can learn in
an instant or in one class,whether you're learning it on a
yoga mat, whether you knowwherever it comes to you.
This kind of learning, and youand I obviously have found our
own ways into this kind ofthinking through movement of one
kind or another, throughrelationship with animals,
movement of one kind or anotherthrough relationship with
(27:29):
animals with nature.
It really is a practice, though, isn't it Like it's something
that takes a while to recognizein yourself and in your
situation, and then it alsotakes a while to figure out how
to feel that space between oh,this thing is happening and I'm
just going to react, you know,to sort of curate or allow for
(27:49):
that space where you have amoment to make a different
choice.
And it's interesting becausewe've been talking about the
fast pace of the world, and itseems to me and I've spoken
about it on this podcast we'reseeking transformation, you know
, a transformational change, amajor shift that's going to flip
a switch, and my life is goingto be different and I'm going to
(28:09):
be better, and I'm going to doall the things I want to do, and
I'm going to be able to do itin a hurry.
It's like the 10 easy lessons,right?
So I find I'm getting allergicto transformational change.
There are a few things that,yes, you can make a change, you
can see it different, but whenyou walk away from a workshop or
(28:31):
a class or something, there'sgot to be a way for you to carry
what you've learned into yourlife.
And if you're making a bigchange, that doesn't happen in
an instant and I feel like wehave to get used to the idea of
small, meaningful changes.
Consistent practice,groundedness.
(28:53):
It's not sexy, it's notsupercharged, it's you know,
oftentimes it's quite boringbecause you're doing daily small
things.
I would love to hear yourthoughts on that.
I agree, I agree it frustratesme when I see the change your
life in 10 minutes or you'llnever have a sad day, or all
(29:16):
those kind of things.
And people go to them and I'vegone to, I've gone to, "hey,
this sounds pretty good, I'mgoing to sign up for it, and
then kind of a disappointed byit.
You know you're hyped, you'reready to go and I know my life's
purpose by the end of thisweekend, and then I leave and
that's not how it was.
And I mean at the end of theday, I know that, just like it
(29:37):
would be fun to lose weight in30 seconds as well, but that's
not how it goes right.
But I find in yoga and maybesome other spiritual practices
as well, is what I findunfortunate is that the beauty
of it is the daily practice, isthe ahas, is the struggles, the
(30:00):
oh.
I tried this.
Oh, hey, my old pattern cameback, but this time I had a
second to notice it, which wasway better before, because
before I didn't even notice it,I didn't even know I had it a
month before that.
So I find that there's a lot ofpeople peddling stuff that
maybe isn't really true orspiritually bypassing.
(30:20):
If I come in as a teacher and Icome in and I pretend that I'm
calm every moment of the day andI've arrived and I don't have
any of these struggles anymore,am I being authentic?
Am I being honest?
Or maybe I don't even want tolook at my own work?
Maybe I don't have any of that,because I go oh, I don't want
to touch that, I don't want tolearn, I don't want to be
curious about why I do what I door why I think what I think.
(30:42):
There's no authenticity there,and you always feel that on some
level.
What I find unfortunate, though,is people sometimes, when
they're really, reallystruggling, are willing almost
to hand over their power, andthat is concerning to me,
because people aren't broken andpeople have what they need to
(31:03):
have to heal themselves, andwhen you find a really good
teacher, that teacher can maybehelp create that space and
container and help you with sometools and some practices and
some different modalities tokind of help you get there.
But, at the end of the day, theperson is in charge of their
own work, their own life, theirown story, and has all the power
(31:25):
and is able to heal themselves.
And anyone implying that you'rebroken or that you don't have
the power, or that I have thepower to do that, to you I would
say walk away.
No, run, run away.
Yes, turn and run.
And I do see that I see thatadvertised a lot, where they're
preying on your woundedness, um,you know in social media a lot
(31:48):
and also the, the quick fix, andthat's unfortunate.
One of one of my teachers, who,who I I have huge regard for, we
did, uh, numerous trainings.
Well, he trained me numerousfor many years, Pete Bernard,
in energy work and one of thethings he says about you know,
(32:10):
sometimes you do have fairly big, big ahas or breakthroughs, and
the body's ready for it, and ithappens, but that's not the
norm.
But it doesn't mean that thisbreakthrough was a big one and
is therefore it was a was areally, really good one.
The small one, the littlemoment, is, is not a
breakthrough, it's not healing,um, and so then it's not chasing
(32:33):
the big, the big reactions, thebig breakthroughs.
I'm sure you see that in yourwork too.
See where you know, one daymaybe somebody's hip opens up in
a way that never has before um,and so they.
But you can't chase that,because the next week they're
not going to have the same thing, but they're still making those
progresses and steps.
And what I like what he says ishe says we all like to drink
water, but we shouldn't drink itfrom a fire hose.
(32:57):
And so he talks about thenervous system.
Yeah, and I like that.
I think it's true, it's true,you know.
Jen Steers (33:02):
So the nervous system doesn't want to drink
water out of a fire hose.
It's too much, it's too, it'stoo intense, it's too crazy.
And so chasing the bigreactions all the time isn't
even good for us a lot of thetime and is not something that
we're able to hold onto, but,like you say, it's not exciting.
Susannah Steers (33:21):
Yeah, it's not sexy on the Instagram, that
daily work.
So I want to bring it backaround to yoga after our
discussion about all thattransformational change, and I
want to talk about the classexperience, like when you go.
I know I find this in Pilatestoo.
(33:42):
You can come to a Pilates classand you can bash out the
exercises the teacher gives youand walk away and you've had a
workout and that's fine.
It gives you something.
But if you, while you werethere, are paying attention to
your movement patterns and howyou engage with the springs and
the weights and with your bodyin different ways, how your
(34:02):
breathing works with your core,noticing all the patterns in
your movement, then you canleave the class and then, as you
are walking around in your lifeand playing with your kids and
doing your dishes and all ofthose things, you have different
skills for managing the work ofyour life.
(34:23):
I'm curious if you find there'sa relatable parallel to yoga
class.
Jen Steers (34:32):
Absolutely very much .
So I find you can, just as howI did.
I went into yoga as a I'm goingto be moving my body.
It's being offered at the gym,it's an exercise modality.
I'm going to give it a go andit is, and there's definitely
benefits to moving your body andyou can approach it as an
(34:53):
exercise class and that's fineand you're definitely getting a
benefit.
I'm never going to say don't,why not, why not move your body?
And maybe you're coming formovement, for flexibility, for
stability, maybe you're comingto do something with some
friends All good, these are allgood things to do.
Exercise opportunity, whereassome of the other people I have
(35:15):
have been coming for years withme and they, you know they're
more into the practice.
Is that I just invite theopportunity that it could be
more?
It could be a practice, it couldbe an exercise class, and
(35:38):
that's okay.
We're going to move our bodyand I'll tell you how to do it
in a manner that feels safe.
But if you're open to exploringthe practice, then it would be
things like really payingattention to the breath and when
let's suppose that you're notable to breathe while you're
holding a strong pose, do youforego the breath to keep the
(36:02):
pose going, in which case, ifyou're doing a yoga practice, I
might ask you to check in withyour thoughts and see what your
thoughts are around.
Why are you holding this posewhen right now, your body's
having a hard time with it?
You know so.
Yes, I understand you want tobuild strength.
I get that.
But if you're going to a placewhere now you're not maintaining
(36:23):
form or you're struggling, isthere be curious about what your
thoughts are?
What is going on in your mind?
Is there judgment?
Is there lack?
Is there attachment?
Is there?
You know?
Are you able to back out of thepose a little bit and can find
your breath again, find yourform again and notice there now?
Is there thoughts about?
(36:43):
Is there judgments around that?
So, just kind of getting tonotice different things that
come up in the practice andsometimes sitting through
discomfort.
So we talk about I'll say not torescue yourself, and sometimes
that means something as simpleas shavasana at the end, where
you're lying in stillness.
Um, I can see sometimes, youknow it's's really really
(37:06):
difficult for people.
They're trying to look at theirwatches and you know what is.
You know what did the workoutlook like on their watch.
What time is it?
Where are they going to go?
You can tell they're thinkingabout other things.
They just lying around on theground is driving them crazy.
I felt that before too.
So I'm not saying it in ajudgmental place.
But to sit with that, to go,okay, you know what?
(37:26):
Can you sit in stillness?
Can you lie in the stillnessand notice?
Yeah, you're kind of antsy here.
Your mind is busy, your body'sfidgety, you want to get up, you
want to go, you want to getgoing, but I'm asking you to
find that stillness and bepresent for a little minute.
And then what comes up for you?
So, yeah, I'm uncomfortable ashell.
Okay, can you just sit withthat, see what's on the other
(37:49):
side of it, be curious, don't bemean about it.
Just notice what's on the otherside of that.
Will it reveal something to you?
And generally, the harder it isto do that to take those five
minutes of just sitting instillness or lying in stillness
and letting whatever be, be,whatever comes up.
Whatever comes up comes up andyou're not changing it or trying
to fix it or rescue yourself,but just sit with it and see
(38:10):
where it is.
The harder it is, probably themore.
We need to do some of that.
That's sort of how you canchoose to play with it in your
practice.
But it's kind of to come into ayoga practice and say, you know,
as a, as a spiritual practice,I think that part really is
living your life off the mat.
So to come in it's kind of likegoing to church.
(38:31):
You can go to church and go andsit in church for an hour and
enjoy the service and think ofall the good things that you
should do.
But are you able when you walkout in life here's where the
opportunities are we kind ofplant the little seeds of the
practice.
Now, when you're in life, canyou have those seeds kind of
grow a little bit?
Take those moments.
Susannah Steers (38:51):
So, Jen, if people are interested in finding
you, are you doing onlineclasses?
Are you doing like?
Where can people find you,Either in the Ottawa area or if
they're outside of Ottawa?
Jen Steers (39:06):
Okay, what I'm working on my own self right now
is that idea of not waiting forthe perfect.
If you want to find me rightnow you're not going to find a
snazzy webpage because I don'thave it yet you know you could
find me on Facebook, so you canfind me there.
You can find me on Instagram,Jen Steers.
I have a little bit of a socialmedia.
(39:28):
I'm doing little reels on myphone, so if you want to reach
me at this moment, it wouldprobably be the easiest way it
would be through Facebook orMessenger or Instagram, and I
think they're going to getposted up on the show notes how
to find those.
So, yeah, feel free to readthem.
And I do one-on-one.
I can do one-on-one online, Ican do one-on-one in person.
(39:51):
I've also done and continue todo, you know, workshops for
offices or mental health orwellness workshops.
I've done that for schools too.
I've done some girls day schoolthings with the guidance
department, and then alsoone-on-ones corporates or a
(40:12):
person.
If you're in the Ottawa area,that's great.
Susannah Steers (40:17):
Well, Jen, I've got to say living 2,000 miles
and change apart is always hard,but it's great to be able to
spend a little bit of time withyou today and to get to share
you with my people.
Jen Steers (40:28):
I love spending time with you, too, all the time.
Susannah Steers (40:31):
All the time, all right, well, take care and
I'll see you soon.
Jen Steers (40:35):
Thank you for having me.
Susannah Steers (40:36):
Thanks for coming.
Take care.
Bye,
Jen Steers (40:38):
All right.
Bye.
Susannah Steers (40:41):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Subscribe and, if you love whatyou heard, leave a five-star
review and tell people what youenjoyed most.
Join me here again in a coupleof weeks For now let's get
moving.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.