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February 17, 2025 26 mins

Enhance your health through the power of breath, and discover how such a simple act can profoundly impact your physical and emotional well-being. Join me, Susannah Steers, as I guide you through the often-overlooked science of breathing, drawing insights from James Nestor's "Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art." Together, we'll navigate the intricate connections between breathing patterns and health. Learn about the role of the diaphragm in effective breathing, and how modern society's loss of  fundamental breathing skills affects everything from posture to athletic performance. Whether you're into Pilates, fitness or sport or or whether you're someone curious about ways to improve your wellbeing, you'll gain valuable insights into how movement practices like Pilates, and deep nasal breath can help you live healthier and feel better.

Some references for this episode: 

  • Breath: The New Science of a Lost Art,” James Nestor, Riverhead Books/Penguin Random House, USA, 2020
  • Spark: The Revolutionary Science of Exercise and the Brain,” John J.Ratey, MD with Erik Hagerman, Little Brown and Company, Hachette Book Group. New York, NY 2008 
  • Multidisciplinary Approaches to Breathing Pattern Disorders,” Leon Chaitow, Dinah Bradley, Christopher Gilbert, Churchill Livingstone, 2002. 




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Heart of Motion Podcast host Susannah Steers is a Pilates & Integrated Movement Specialist and owner of Moving Spirit Pilates in North Vancouver, BC. She is passionate about movement, about connections and about life.

Through movement teaching, speaking, and facilitating workshops, she supports people in creating movement practices that promote fitness from the inside out. She loves building community, and participating in multi-disciplinary collaborations.

Along with her friend and colleague Gillian McCormick, Susannah also co-hosts The Small Conversations for a Better World podcast – an interview based podcast dedicated to promoting the kind of conversations about health that can spark positive change in individuals, families, communities and across the globe.

Social Media Links:
Moving Spirit Pilates Instagram
Moving Spirit Pilates Facebook

Susannah Steers Instagram

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susannah Steers (00:00):
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast.
I'm Susanna Steers and I'll beyour host as we explore the
heart, soul and science ofmovement as a pathway to more
active, vibrant and connectedliving.
Nothing happens until somethingmoves, so let's get started.
Breath we take it for granted.
We breathe in, we breathe out,typically.

(00:24):
Unless something is very wrong,we don't have to think about it
, it just happens.
And yet breath ties intoliterally everything we do.
It supports posture and acts asthe bedrock for almost every
single system in our bodies.
Breath integrates thesympathetic fight or flight side
of our nervous system to theparasympathetic rest-and-digest

(00:46):
part.
It can be a powerful tool inhelping us to regulate our
emotions.
Breath is an integral part ofthe body's core and works as a
platform and even a springboardfor physical fitness.
Breath connects the being partof us to the doing part.
It connects spirit to form,part of us to the doing part.

(01:08):
It connects spirit to form.
Honestly, there are very fewthings as important to our
health as the ability to breathewell.
It is really our most importantmovement skill and yet as a
society we've lost the abilityto do it well at all.
.
In his best-selling book Breaththe New Science of a Lost Art
author, james Nestor describeshuman beings as the worst
breathers in the animal kingdom.
A significant portion of theworld's population suffers from

(01:31):
breathing pattern disorders, andmost don't know it, and many of
those patterns may either be asymptom or a cause of a whole
host of health problems.
The problems I tend to think offirst are things like asthma
and allergies, copd and ageneral susceptibility to
respiratory illnesses and I saythat having just spent a week in

(01:53):
bed with a wicked upperrespiratory infection.
Anyway, sleep apnea might be inthere too.
Those of us over 50 might bemore interested to note that
breath pattern disorders cancontribute to things like
elevated blood pressure,increased heart rate and poor
circulation.
If you're an athlete, you mightbe more interested in things

(02:16):
like breath pattern disorderscausing inefficient oxygen use,
decreased athletic performanceand a general overworking of the
body's systems just in order tobreathe.
Now, if we broaden ourawareness and include mental
health, we can consider thatbreath pattern dysfunctions can
play a role in heightened stressand anxiety.

(02:36):
It might even mean decreasedcognitive function and mental
clarity.
You might experience poor sleepquality and insomnia.
A lot of that might havesomething to do with menopause
too, who knows?
And on top of all of thosebreath pattern disorders may
worsen things like chronic painand even have a role in
structural and developmentalchallenges.

(02:57):
Conversations around healthpromotion typically revolve
around physical activity,nutrition, body composition,
inflammation, stress and thosekind of things.
When we talk aboutcardiovascular health, we're
usually talking about our heartand our lungs and the quality of
oxygen exchange, maybe ourblood pressure and the speed
that our heart rate returns tonormal after exercise, and

(03:18):
unless we're dealing with anidentified respiratory condition
, we're probably not talkingabout the actual quality of the
breaths that we take.
Lately, though, that seems tobe changing.
I don't know if you've noticedit.
It seems that breath is havinga moment in pop culture, and I
am here for it.
As with all things pop culture,though, the headlines and the

(03:38):
hashtags rarely get down to theheart of things.
With breath in particular, Ithink how you move matters.
Over the last 30-odd years as amovement educator, I've watched
lots of trends come and go, evenwith respect to breathing.
In my earlier training as aPilates teacher, I was taught
very specific breathingtechniques.

(03:58):
Yoga and some martial arts havetheir own specialized breathing
too.
Recently, you might have heardabout breathing techniques to
improve the tone of your vagusnerve as a way to regulate the
nervous system.
There are different techniquesfor different sports, for
singing, for speaking and acting, even for something like cold
plunging.
And if you've read JamesNestor's book about breath, then

(04:19):
you might even have triedtaping your lips together as a
way to discourage mouthbreathing and shift to more
nasal breath.
All of these differentbreathing techniques support
different systems and activities, and all of them presuppose
that certain biomechanicalconditions are present which in
a body living life in the modernworld may or may not be present
.
So today we're going to takesome time to actually talk about

(04:41):
breath, to bring it out of thatsubconscious realm where it
just happens, and maybe bring itinto a state of awareness.
It's rare that something sobasic can make such a huge
difference to our health andwell-being.
Before we can really talk aboutbreath, we need to understand
how it works, and to do that weneed to get the lay of the land.
Let's start with the diaphragm,which is your main respiratory

(05:03):
muscle.
It's a dome-shaped muscle whichattaches to the inner surfaces
at the bottom of your breastbone, at the front, your mid-spine,
at the back and all the wayaround your lower six ribs.
The muscle fibers of that domeconnect to their own central
tendon at the top.
And then there are longtendinous crura which extend
down along the front of thespine like little legs, from the

(05:24):
diaphragm down to the firstcouple of vertebrae in your
lumbar spine in your lower back.
So if you picture that the mainbody of the diaphragm is like a
parachute, then the crurasliding down are a little bit
like a ripcord.
So that's the main structure.
But what actually creates breath?
There are a lot of things wecould factor in here, but for
our purposes today I'm justgoing to talk about the basic

(05:45):
mechanics of respiration.
And it actually all starts as achemical reaction.
Sensors in the brain and nearthe blood vessels register
elevated levels of carbondioxide in the blood, which is
actually poisonous for us, andthat triggers the reflex debris.
Once stimulated, the muscularfibers of the diaphragm contract

(06:05):
and they draw its dome downward.
There are muscles in your neckand around your ribs that help
to expand the rib cage at thesame time.
Now your lungs sit just abovethe diaphragm.
They're a little spongy andthey can't expand and contract
on their own.
They depend on the movement ofthe rib cage for that.
So the lungs live inside afascial bag of connective tissue

(06:28):
called pleura, and it'simportant to understand this
because the attachments of thepleura to the top of your
diaphragm, at the bottom, to theribs and the sternum and the
upper spine, even at the back ofyour neck, create a supportive
and connected web thatfacilitates the movement of your
lungs.
So as you inhale, when thediaphragm contracts and draws
down and the ribs elevate andexpand an action often called

(06:52):
bucket handling the lung tissuesare effectively pulled open and
the volume inside the lungsincreases and the air pressure
decreases.
The universe abhors a vacuum,pressure decreases, the universe
abhors a vacuum, and so oxygenis literally pushed into the
lungs by the higher air pressureoutside of them.
Your body then takes all ofthat fresh oxygen and moves it

(07:14):
through your tissues to feed allyour various functions.
When you exhale, the diaphragmand accessory muscles relax and
the lungs naturally deflate ontheir own, much like an elastic
balloon will deflate when youlet it go.
If you're physically active,the abdominal muscles and the
pelvic floor will become moreinvolved, contracting and
increasing the pressure upwardunder the diaphragm, while those

(07:37):
muscles between your ribscontract to compress the rib
cage, all of it increasing theair pressure and decreasing the
volume of the lungs.
Many of the deep core musclesact almost like a bellows,
effectively pushing the air outof the lungs.
The harder you're workingphysically, the more accessory

(07:58):
muscles will work and you'reprobably going to feel the work
of those muscles as you breathe.
But at rest breathing shouldn'treally feel like work.
While there are lots of expertswho approach breathwork from the
perspective of the nervoussystem or chemical reactions in
the body or with a view toimproving psychological and
emotional states, I often workwith breath from a movement

(08:18):
perspective.
In my experience, goodbreathing patterns usually
equate to generally decentmovement patterns and, on the
flip side, poor breathingpatterns can actively get in the
way of free and functionalmovement in the rest of the body
.
The two are linked in everypossible way.
In the book MultidisciplinaryApproaches to Breathing Pattern
Disorders, author Leon Chaitau,who was an osteopath, dinah

(08:42):
Bradley, who was a respiratoryphysiotherapist, and Christopher
Gilbert, who is a psychologistor psychiatrist, I can't
remember which, they report thatnowhere in the body is the
axiom of structure governingfunction more apparent than it
is in relation to respiration.
They go on to say that this isalso a region in which prolonged
modifications of functioninevitably induce structural

(09:05):
changes.
Given time, structuraladaptations can prevent normal
breathing function and abnormalbreathing function ensures
continued structuraladaptational stresses.
But you might be thinking wait,we're talking about breathing
and that's in my chest.
How does breath affect the restof my movement?
And if that's what you'rethinking, here we go.

(09:27):
Remember, in my world, everymovement is a whole body
movement.
Being a Pilates teacher,something I spend a lot of time
with people working on is goodfunction of the body's core.
And you know what the core is apressure zone.
Earlier we looked at howchanging volume and pressures
inside and outside your lungsmight affect breath.
What you might not realize isthat the body's core is very

(09:50):
much influenced by pressures inthe body, but in a slightly
different way.
Let's shift focus for a momentand think about the core which
is located in the area belowyour ribcage and above your hips
.
The deep system core, which isresponsible for some important
roles supporting the pelvis, thespine and the trunk, is made up
of four main parts.

(10:10):
At the front there's the deepabdominal wall or the transverse
abdominal muscles.
At the back, there are deepsegmental muscles known as the
multifidus and the spine.
They look a little like achevron sign going up the spine,
from the sacrum to the skull.
At the bottom we have thepelvic floor, which is made up
of deep muscles at the bottom ofthe pelvis and on the top is

(10:31):
the respiratory diaphragm.
Most people don't think aboutthe diaphragm as being a core
muscle, but I'd say it'sarguably the most important one.
All these deep core structurescreate a kind of cylinder in the
middle of the body in whichlive all our abdominal organs.
The organs are packed prettydensely together in another
fascial bag, this one called theperitoneum.

(10:51):
You might think of this bagfull of organs like a water
balloon, and if you've eversqueezed a water balloon balloon
between your hands, you knowyou can't compress it without
having some part of it squishout somewhere.
Now remember the action of thediaphragm on the inhale, how it
descends downward as you breathein, increasing the volume and

(11:11):
decreasing the pressure insidethe lungs.
Well, at the same time thatdescending diaphragm is
increasing the pressure on theabdominal organs below it.
The point is, when you applypressure to the abdominal area,
the volume of the tissues can'tdecrease the way your lungs can,
because they're not full of air.
There's nowhere for it to go.

(11:32):
So, a little bit like the waterballoon, when those tissues are
compressed, they get squishedinto areas that will allow them
the space to do it.
In the best case scenario,there's a beautiful piston-like
action between the diaphragm andthe pelvic floor, on the inhale
and on the exhale.
When you breathe in, thediaphragm descends, the organs

(11:54):
are pushed downward a little andthe pelvic floor lengthens to
allow a little space for that tohappen.
When you breathe out, thediaphragm relaxes, the pelvic
floor rises a little, helping tomove the organs back up and the
air out of your lungs.
This wonderful relationshipdoes all kinds of good things
for the healthy functioning ofthe cardiovascular system, of
the organs, for the lymphaticsystem, for the circulatory

(12:17):
system, as well as providingimportant muscular support for
the spine, the pelvis and thehips.
When the breath and the coreare well integrated, then every
single breath you take is a coreexercise.
Okay, so if that's true andwe're breathing all the time,
wouldn't it follow that weshould all have fabulous core
strength and stability?

(12:37):
Well, no, and I think this iswhat Leon Chaitau and friends
were talking about when theydescribed this loop of
dysfunction that can arisebetween breath and movement
patterns.
There's a delicate balancebetween all these deep core
structures.
Beyond the core.
There are other musculoskeletalinfluences.
Probably one of the easiest waysto talk about them is through

(13:00):
the work of a guy named VladimirYanda.
Yanda was a Czech physician anda rehab specialist who, in the
late 1970s and 80s, identifiedwhat he called the crossed
syndromes.
These are patterns of muscleimbalances that can lead to poor
posture, movement problems,breathing issues and pain.
They create a kind of tug ofwar between different muscle

(13:20):
groups in the body, pulling thebones and other tissues into
relationships that can impairtheir function.
While Yanda didn't explicitlyconnect his crossed syndromes to
breathing disorders, subsequentresearch has demonstrated a
clear relationship between thetwo.
The cross syndromes just giveus an easy way to visualize
those relationships, so let'stalk about them for a second.

(13:41):
Imagine you are looking at yourbody from the side and you have
a giant X across your upper body, from your neck to your chest.
In an upper cross syndrome, themuscles at the front of your
neck and your chest becomeshortened and tight, and the
muscles behind your neck andyour chest become shortened and
tight, and the muscles behindyour neck and in your upper back
become weak and stretched out.
This tends to lead to a forwardhead posture, as if you're

(14:03):
constantly kind of peering outat something, trying to read the
small print or texting on yourphone, and it might include
rounded shoulders and a hunchedupper back, like you're
constantly slouched at yourcomputer.
The upper cross syndrome ispretty common for people who
spend a lot of time sitting atthe desk at their computer.
What does all that mean forbreathing?
Well, tight pectoral muscles atthe front of the chest can

(14:24):
restrict the expansion of therib cage as you breathe in,
those tight pecs actuallyprevent the movement of the ribs
that is necessary to expand theribs and draw the diaphragm
down At the same time,overactivity of accessory
breathing muscles like the uppertrapezius and the later scapula
, which are upper back andshoulder girdle muscles, can
mean you default to an upperchest breathing pattern instead

(14:47):
of a diaphragmatic breathingpattern.
So you're getting most of yourair in the upper lobes of your
lung.
We need to get oxygen down intothe lower lobes of the lungs
for the best oxygen exchange tohappen.
In an upper cross syndrome,we're having to use more muscle
and more energy in order tobreathe, which costs us in terms
of oxygen and musculoskeletalfunction.

(15:08):
So let's picture another giantX, this time from your lower
back to your hips.
This is the lower crossedsyndrome.
The muscles in your lower backand in the front of your hips
become tight and short.
The muscles in your abdomen andyour buttocks become weak and
stretched out, and this can leadto an exaggerated arch in your
low back and cause your pelvisto tip forward a little bit.
You might even see a protrudingbelly.

(15:30):
This is often seen in peoplewho sit a lot or who have weak
core muscles.
Lower cross syndrome involvesthe tightness of extensors in
the thoracolumbar spine betweenthe ribs and the lower back and
your hip flexors, with weaknessof deep abdominals and gluteal
muscles.
Sometimes this creates ananterior tilt pelvis that may
alter that vertical piston-likerelationship between the

(15:52):
diaphragm and the pelvic floorin breathing.
It might also compromise thestabilizing function of the deep
abdominal wall, which plays arole in both postural control
and respiration.
And if we keep our attention inthe context of rehab and motor
control, research has actuallyshown that patients with chronic
low back pain exhibit alteredbreathing patterns during motor

(16:13):
control tests.
So breathing pattern disorderscan lead to funky motor control
strategies and reduce trunkstability, potentially
contributing to musculoskeletalpain.
The diaphragm is the primarybreathing muscle and it
contributes to trunk stabilityand postural control, so the
coordination of both functionscan get very complicated when

(16:34):
demand increases on posturalsupport, motor control and or
respiratory function.
We could dive way deeper intoall the pieces and parts of this
, and the truth is that the wayswe move and breathe most often
are going to be our defaultpatterns.
Bottom line, though, and what Ilove about this is that the

(16:54):
relationships involved here giveus so many different ways to
make a difference.
If that's something we want todo.
Attending to how we move andhow we breathe gives us a window
into shifting that tricky loopof function and dysfunction.
Untangling it really just takesa little time, attention and
some dedicated practice, and Ithink that's one of the reasons

(17:15):
I like Pilates for this.
We can explore it all inside aregular movement practice if we
want to.
What if we're doing all kindsof movement and
exercise-centered work and theyare not doing the trick?
Reports are that a significantportion of the world's
population, particularly fromthe developed world, which I
find interesting suffers frombreathing pattern disorders.
Some even put that numberaround 20%.

(17:37):
Among the most common issuesare over-breathing and
mouth-breathing, and you mightnot get to the bottom of these
challenges exclusively throughmovement.
Over-breathing is a pattern inwhich the depth and rate of
breathing are greater than thebody's metabolic needs, so you
get more oxygen than you need touse.
You can recognizeover-breathing in a few ways.
Typically it involves upperchest breathing and a higher

(18:00):
than normal rate of respiration,often more than 14 breaths per
minute.
Typically an overuse ofaccessory breathing muscles like
your shoulders or upper back,inefficient use of oxygen and
sometimes hypocapnea, whichmeans the level of carbon
dioxide in the blood is low.
Too much CO2 is dangerous, buttoo little isn't good either.
You might notice a habit offrequent deep sighs or yawns in

(18:25):
someone with this pattern.
Those sighs are a little lessabout the inhale and more about
exhaling to try and rebalancethe oxygen and carbon dioxide.
The effects of chronicover-breathing mean a reduced
oxygen delivery to your tissues,altered heart rate variability
and potential contribution tohypertension, changes in the
blood flow to your brain andmore.
It can increase anxiety andcontribute to sleep disruption.

(18:47):
It might also mean chronicactivity in some of those
accessory breathing muscleswhich can alter your body's
posture and your structure overthe long term.
The other massive culprit ismouth breathing.
You're likely already awarethat folks who breathe mostly
through their mouths are morelikely to snore or have
something like sleep apnea.
There may be a thousand reasonsthat they breathe through their

(19:08):
mouths, but as a result, theirrisk of respiratory, sinus, ear
and throat infections is higher.
Mouth breathing is associatedwith chronic inflammation and
high blood pressure.
That list goes on to includecognitive, metabolic and dental
issues, and even developmentalchanges to the shape of the
mouth and the skull in kids.
Mouth breathing is somethingyou probably don't notice day to

(19:28):
day, unless your partnercomplains about your snoring,
and yet it can have some prettyprofound effects on your health.
So what do we do?
Recommendations are to get good, slow, diaphragmatic breaths
through your nose.
Nasal breathing immediatelydoes a few things.
It filters, warms andhumidifies the air that you
breathe in, making it cleanerand easier to absorb.

(19:50):
It activates the diaphragm moreeffectively, bringing the air
more quickly and directly intothe lower lobes of your lungs,
increasing oxygen absorption byabout 20% compared to breathing
through your mouth.
If you're an athlete, that canmean better athletic performance
.
It helps regulate your heartrate, lower your blood pressure
and improve your heart ratevariability.

(20:11):
Your brain gets more oxygen,supporting brain function, and
it also activates theparasympathetic nervous system
that rest and digest stuff,which will help manage anxiety
and stress.
Overall markers of chronicinflammation go down with nasal
breathing, which does reallygood things for every aspect of
your health.
Seems simple enough, right?

(20:31):
James Nestor, again from theBreath Book, advocates for
slowing down the breath rate.
He suggests aiming for about5.5 breaths per minute, which
translates to inhaling for about5.5 seconds and exhaling for
5.5 seconds.
He claims this pattern can helpimprove focus, reduce stress
and enhance overall well-being.

(20:53):
So why don't we take a minuteright now and give it a try?
If you're driving a car ordoing something that requires
your full attention, pull overfirst or come back and listen
again to try it later.
I have my timer here and we'lldo the pattern for one full
minute.
It won't be exact, but I thinkyou'll get at least the

(21:14):
beginning of a feel for thisbreath pattern.
Inhale through the nose forfive and a half seconds and
exhale through the nose for fiveand a half seconds.
Ready, here we go.
Three, two, one.
Inhale and exhale, inhale andexhale, Inhale, exhale, inhale

(22:07):
and exhale.
Inhale, exhale, exhale, inhaleand exhale.
All done, how did it feel?

(22:33):
Could you get the air that youwanted?
What else did you noticehappening in your body If you're
someone with nasal or sinuscongestion, this might not be
the easiest thing to do rightoff the bat, and if you're
someone who over breathes or haspostural or movement challenges
that have changed your breathpatterns, you might have a hard
time shifting to nasal breathingright away.

(22:56):
So you start simple.
Start with a few cycles of thatbreathing, practice it daily
and see if you can increase thenumber of cycles that you can do
.
Start wherever you are.
Right now Can you adopt thatbreath at different times of the
day, even when you'rephysically active.
And if you're an athlete, youmight want to take that a step
further and see if you canexplore some breath holding as

(23:18):
you train.
That's something thatsynchronized swimmers do really
well, although it's just anecessity of the sport.
The idea behind breath holdingexercises while you're training
is to increase the body'stolerance to carbon dioxide,
which can be really helpful forathletes looking to improve
their endurance.
Now in the book, nestor talksabout finding ways to address

(23:40):
the things that are getting inyour way, exploring ways of
managing the sinus issues orworking on your posture or any
of the things that make itdifficult to get that good deep
nasal breath.
For me, the point is this.
Breathing, like health ingeneral, is something that can
be managed and supported in awhole bunch of different ways.

(24:01):
The most important thing isjust to start somewhere, and
bringing awareness to yourbreathing could be the first
step.
What do you notice about yourbreathing?
What challenges do you observe,if any?
What happens when you play withdifferent aspects of your
breathing?
As you open yourself up tonoticing this stuff, you may

(24:22):
decide you want to dig deeper,and whether that's through
specific breathing exercises ormovement, or dealing with
chronic congestion or making adecision to improve your
cardiovascular capacity overall,there's really no wrong way to
go.
Longevity is having a momentthese days, at least among a lot
of the people I connect with,and whether we're talking about
physical health, prevention ofAlzheimer's and dementia,

(24:45):
management of stress and anxietydisorders, menopause or even
most diseases associated withaging, breath, movement and
cardiovascular health are alwayson the table as key mitigating
factors.
Spending a little time with anyor all of them can only improve
your life, so why not play alittle?

(25:06):
If you've got questions orcomments on what we talked about
today, reach out.
Send me an email at sue, atmovingspiritca.
I might even include yourthoughts in a future episode and
if you enjoyed what you'veheard, please consider leaving a
comment or a review on whateverplatform you're listening to or
share it with a friend.

(25:26):
In the next few weeks, I've gotsome great guests coming up.
I'll be talking aboutmeditation as medicine with
physiotherapist SiobhanO'Connell, and about high
performance paddling and cancerrecovery with Olympian Kamini
Jain.
You are not going to want tomiss a single moment.
For now, though, thanks so muchfor listening and have a great
week.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.

(25:49):
Subscribe and, if you love whatyou heard, leave a five-star
review and tell people what youenjoyed most.
Join me here again in a coupleof weeks.
For now, let's get moving.
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