March 31, 2025 • 26 mins
Paddle into the remarkable world of Kamini Jain, an Olympic kayaker whose journey from shy teenager to Hall of Fame paddler reveals powerful lessons about perseverance, community, and finding strength on the water.
Kamini's story begins with a quiet 14-year-old discovering kayaking – a perfect fit for her introverted nature that would eventually lead to Olympic finals, 11 World Cup medals, and induction into three different Halls of Fame.
Kamini has a unique perspective, with her breadth of experience across multiple paddle disciplines. From sprint kayaking to dragon boating to outrigger canoes, she illuminates the technical foundations that connect these sports while celebrating their unique challenges. Her global coaching camps have shared this expertise with paddlers around the world, creating communities bonded by their love of water.
Particularly moving is Kamini's work with breast cancer survivors through dragon boat programs. These initiatives provide not just physical benefits but crucial emotional support networks. "It brings them into an environment where people know about the treatment options, they know about how tired you are," she explains. This perspective gained even deeper meaning during her own five-year cancer journey, teaching her vulnerability alongside strength.
The conversation concludes with a heartwarming tale about Choti, a street dog Kamini rescued in India who serendipitously ended up with host Susannah's family – a beautiful reminder of how unexpected connections enrich our lives, much like the communities formed through paddle sports. Whether you're a seasoned paddler or simply curious about how athletic pursuits shape character, this conversation will inspire you to find your own rhythm in life's currents.
About Kamini Jain
Kamini Jain is an Olympian and World Champion dragon boat and outrigger canoe coach and paddler, and the founder of Right Angle Performance, a paddle sport service company in Vancouver.
Right Angle Performance delivers to teams, individuals and coaches technical, tactical and training education for dragon boat, outrigger canoe, surfski and kayak racing.
Kamini sees sport as a way for people to expand their boundaries, live without limits, and gain empowerment by proving their physical strength and mental discipline. Her coaching objective is to encourage paddlers to set ambitious goals and provide them with the tools to perform their absolute best & fulfill their objectives.
Heart of Motion Podcast host Susannah Steers is a Pilates & Integrated Movement Specialist and owner of Moving Spirit Pilates in North Vancouver, BC. She is passionate about movement, about connections and about life.
Through movement teaching, speaking, and facilitating workshops, she supports people in creating movement practices that promote fitness from the inside out. She loves building community, and participating in multi-disciplinary collaborations.
Along with her friend and colleague Gillian McCormick, Susannah also co-hosts The Small Conversations for a Better World podcast – an interview based podcast dedicated to promoting the kind of conversations about health that can spark positive change in individuals, families, communities and across the globe.
Social Media Links:
Moving Spirit Pilates Instagram
Moving Spirit Pilates Facebook
Susannah Steers Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susannah Steers (00:00):
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast.
I'm Susanna Steers and I'll beyour host as we explore the
heart, soul and science ofmovement as a pathway to more
active, vibrant and connectedliving.
Nothing happens until somethingmoves, so let's get started.
You might not know this, butdragon boat racing is a big deal
(00:21):
in Canada, with more than80,000 people participating
annually in over 300 festivalsand events across the country.
In fact, the biggest, mostcompetitive dragon boat festival
in North America, the CanadianInternational Dragon Boat
Festival, happens every yearright here in Vancouver in June
and, judging by the scores ofinternational awards, it seems
(00:43):
that Canadians are pretty goodat it too.
Today I'm thrilled to introduceyou to maybe one of the reasons
why.
Kamini Jain is the heart, souland drive behind Right Angle
Performance, providinghigh-performance paddle sport
coaching to folks all over theworld.
As an athlete herself, Kaminispent nine years on the Canadian
(01:05):
National Sprint Kayak Team,winning 11 World Cup medals and
competing in two Olympic finalsin 2000 and 2004.
I could list her coachinghighlights, but we'd be here for
a while.
She's been inducted into theInternational Dragon Boat
Federation Hall of Fame, theCanadian Outrigger Hall of Fame
and the Canadian Dragon BoatHall of Fame.
Clearly to say she understandspaddling is an understatement.
(01:28):
I wanted to connect with Kaminiabout her experiences as an
athlete and a coach and to findout what she's learned about
life from her 30-odd years ofsuccess in the sport.
Welcome to the podcast.
Kamini Jain (01:40):
Kamini.
Thank you, Susanna.
It's really great to be hereand talk to you today.
Susannah Steers (01:51):
Well, I kind of feel like I'm in the presence
of Canadian paddle sport royalty.
You've racked up some seriousstats and awards over the years,
but maybe we can start withsome humble beginnings.
Where did it all start for you?
What drew you to the sport?
Kamini Jain (02:00):
Humble beginnings are that I always gravitated
towards athletics, especiallythe individual ones, because I
was a really, really shy kid.
So it just gave me a way tofeel like I expressed myself and
to feel quite comfortable inmyself and in my body.
So when I found kayak as a14-year-old nearly 15-year-old
(02:21):
it just seemed like the thing,because there's nothing more
isolating, nothing more singularthan being in a kayak racing
out by yourself, but at the sametime there are crew boats.
So that fulfilled my need to besocialized and I did love
having friends and I started ata time when there were girls my
(02:41):
own age, so we just became likeinseparable, fast friends
through our whole lives to thisdate.
Susannah Steers (02:48):
Oh, I love it.
So when you were in it and youwere in your canoe and you had
your teammates that you wereworking with, was it that that
kept you going, or did you haveOlympic dreams even then?
Kamini Jain (02:59):
Well, I had Olympic dreams, since I was 11 years
old and watched Chariots of Fire.
There were a couple sort offormative things in my life.
One was that my neighbors weretwins, super popular and super,
you know, like we were friends.
But again, I was shy and theirdad was just a couple inches off
of making the Olympic team whenhe was a young man.
(03:19):
So they would talk about it, no, as a high jumper, so high
jumper.
So they would talk about how hecould jump over the house and
how he was so amazing.
So that put Olympics in my head.
And then watching Chariots ofFire in 1981, and my mom really
loving the whole feeling behindthat movie also, way that one
could excel or, you know,fulfill a need to, you know,
(03:49):
feel successful.
Susannah Steers (03:51):
So when you got to those finish lines, did you
hear that anthem, did you hearthat soundtrack playing in your
head?
Kamini Jain (04:01):
No, not really.
Susannah Steers (04:02):
I just need to breathe.
I just need to breathe.
Kamini Jain (04:04):
Yes, yes.
It comes to mind that thecharacter that I actually looked
up to the most was thesteeplechase runner and women
didn't race steeplechase untilrecently because I did want to
be a runner at one point, butthe picture of him he's always
in mud.
He wasn't the most known, hewasn't the star of the movie,
(04:25):
but he was the one that Ithought and it was just the
blood, sweat and tears and mudthat was part of his story.
That work ethic, real process,real process oriented and loving
the actual moment that you'rein.
Susannah Steers (04:39):
Oh, I love it.
There's something that kind ofhas to shift, though, right when
you go from being arecreational athlete and you're
hanging with your friends andyou're in high school and you're
doing things to the point wherenow you're a serious athlete on
track to major internationalcompetitions, and it seems to me
that at that point you got tobe living, eating and breathing
(05:01):
the sport and your conditioningfor it to be able to perform at
that next level and I know youcan speak to this as an athlete
and as a coach but what createsthat high performance athlete
who's going to do well in thosesettings?
Kamini Jain (05:16):
Well, you know what , in my experience I've, you
know, obviously, I've met a lotof high performance athletes and
there is a variation betweenthem.
There's a variation in theirmotivation and their backgrounds
and you know how they approachsuccess.
Some train really fast and racethe same, some train not as
fast but then race spectacularlywell, and some had parents in
(05:36):
the sport.
Some, you know, there's just awhole variation in it, but it
wasn't something that we talkedabout a lot Like why do you do
this, right?
But for me it was not really achoice.
It's one of those passionatethings where this is what I'm
going to do and if I don'tcontinue it until I feel like
I've given every shot atsucceeding, I am going to have
(05:58):
regrets and at the end of theday, I'm going to have regrets
anyway, because you don't knowhow to reach the top of a
journey when you've never donethe journey before.
So I think that's one of thereasons why I coach is because I
have that look back and say, oh, if you know this or this, this
should be in place, this wasgood, this could have been
(06:18):
better.
You know, all of those sort ofhindsight things that in some
way I'm trying to fill thosegaps
Susannah Steers (06:24):
Okay, so as an athlete who works with a whole
array and as a coach who workswith a whole array of different
kinds of paddlers, you must havea pretty deep understanding of
the different paddlingtechniques required for each.
I can't imagine that kayakingtechniques are the same as you
would use in a dragon boat, sowhat kind of crossover is
between them and how did you getinvolved from kayaking into all
(06:46):
of these different kinds ofpaddle sports?
Kamini Jain (06:54):
Yeah, well, what's really interesting is that I
find there is a lot of crossoverin some of the fundamental
things of certain ergonomicsmake for a strong stroke,
certain ways of movement makefor balance, and best
transmission or myinterpretation of best
transmission of linear movementof a canoe or kayak.
Equipment is different, seatingposition is different, but a
lot of it is the same.
(07:14):
But one of the things that'sgreat cool about upbringing and
sprint canoe is that I was akayaker but we also dabbled in
high kneel canoe.
We also, as Canadians, we havethis really cool sport called
war canoe, where you're highkneeling, meaning on one knee
with the other leg forward, andthere's seven of you on each
side and then you have acoxswain steering standing up on
the back, so that's like ouriconic Canadian sprint sport.
(07:37):
So it gave, you know, gave us awhole avenue of, yeah, a paddle
with what we'd call a doublebladed kayak, but also had that
experience in the single bladed.
And then started dragon boatingat 19, just to do more cross
training.
It was always like, you know,when you're 19, boundless energy
, let's just do more.
Susannah Steers (07:55):
More, more, more, more!
Kamini Jain (07:56):
And then, you know, just started the club that I'm
at, falls Creek Racing CanoeClub down on Granville Island.
We have outrigger canoes.
So you jump into that, becauseby this time I was social.
You jump into those things.
You get invited to a race toHawaii, so you just do it.
But there's similarities,there's differences.
That come into the kind ofwater.
Hawaiian water is differentthan Falls Creek water.
You wouldn't paddle a sprintkayak down in the ocean in
(08:16):
Hawaii but yeah, there's a lotof carryover.
Susannah Steers (08:19):
And as you're training those athletes I can
hear it in your voice.
You're dealing with differentkinds of water and different
equipment and different seatingpositions.
So there's technical aspects.
There's even just in terms oftraining the capacity of the
athlete to do the job.
What kind of things do paddlingathletes do to prepare for the
sport other than paddle?
Kamini Jain (08:41):
Other than paddle.
Lots of gym work.
It's a power sport.
You got to pack on some muscles.
It's a power sport.
You got to pack on some muscles.
You know a lot of paddlers herewhere we are in Vancouver,
because we have paddling allyear round and I'm coaching sort
of recreational high-end thing,not Olympic-level athletes now.
So they'll go to the gym.
If they like running, they'llrun.
(09:02):
If they like skiing, they'llski.
Eastern Canadians will ski,they will swim.
Susannah Steers (09:11):
Years ago I was working with a sports
psychologist who asked me what Idid when I was working with
athletes who would literallykill.
To get the point, in my work,most of the time I'm not working
with athletes right up againsttheir competitions.
If I'm working with athletes,it's usually as a way to survive
their sport, to help them beable to move forces through
their bodies better with betterefficiency, that kind of thing.
(09:32):
But what I find interesting isworking with high-level athletes
.
Whether it's high-level,recreational or high, you know,
internationally, there's a driveto get the job done, push to
train to their absolute limitsand to push always, always,
always for getting better.
I know in my years as a dancer,rest was like a four-letter
word and I guess that there'sthe young part there too.
(09:55):
But I think things have changeda lot over the years.
But there's still that in orderto perform at that level you
got to be pushing the edges allthe time.
So how do you balance highintensity needs of that kind of
training with things like safedevelopment, rest, appropriate
supports for the athlete inpursuit of the sport?
Kamini Jain (10:16):
Yeah, as an elite athlete it was relatively easy
to do that once a certain levelwas attained.
It wasn't easy as a fighting toget on national team because
you weren't very smart yet, youdidn't know what your limits
were, so it was super easy toovertrain.
I would imagine most of usspent a couple of years where we
kind of trained too much andgot injured and got slow and all
(10:39):
that sort of stuff that we onewould expect.
But once you made the team,then it was easier because
finances were somewhat easier.
You know, you're often away attraining camps, so basically you
ate, slept and trained, so thatwas easier.
In the realm that I'm coachingright now, everybody has
full-time jobs or they'refull-time students or you know,
and they train when they can.
(10:59):
They come after work, they'retired.
The challenge is for them tolearn how to put in everything
they can for that, because it'soften distracted training as
opposed to an Olympian.
What are you going to bedistracted by, right?
So that's one of the challengesis how do you get them to
actually focus so they can dowhat you're saying is prepare to
(11:19):
their maximum each time, but atthe same time, yes, they need
their rest.
They can't go to work from nineto five and train every night
and train every morning.
There needs to be some managingof their expectations based on
their current fitness level,their health, their one could
say age.
But we'll say that can go inwith current fitness level and
health.
So, yeah, that's a learning.
(11:41):
Some of them just get too tired, like the whole team might.
You might be a certain time inthe year and you get too many
people saying they're sick.
It's like no, no, can't workthis boat with three people.
Yeah, yeah, and it's a matterof just being okay with being
tired sometimes and knowing thedifference with yeah, it's okay,
I'm tired.
That's what being an athlete isabout and being like, oh, I am
(12:02):
too tired.
Susannah Steers (12:03):
When it's going to tip over into injury or just
not being able to function inyour own life.
Kamini Jain (12:09):
Right, you know the other stuff you got to do,
right.
Susannah Steers (12:11):
Well, I know you've been involved with the
Abreast in a Boat dragon boatorganization and I know you've
coached paddlers recovering frombreast cancer to go on to win
gold medals around the world.
I've worked with some of thefolks who competed and I know
how much that experience oftraining and becoming champions,
how much that meant to them,especially while they were in
(12:34):
the midst of this whole cancerjourney.
At the same time, what do youthink that dragon boating brings
to people, and maybe especiallyto folks dealing with cancer?
Kamini Jain (12:44):
Well, definitely brings a support network.
You know, with the, I'll talkabout the, the non-breast cancer
teams, for a second.
It brings like friends,definitely brings a support
network.
You know, with the, I'll talkabout the non-breast cancer
teams for a second.
It brings like friends.
It brings dating opportunities.
You know that I don't have togo online.
I'm going to join Dragon Boatteam, that sort of thing.
It brings fitness, it bringshealth and for these other,
there's a lot of specialinterest groups that are in
(13:04):
Dragon Boat and the breastcancer paddlers, as you say, is
a huge one.
And it brings them, you know,it brings them into an
environment where people knowabout the options of treatment,
they know about how tired youare, they know about what they
can advise you for certain,helping with you with certain
challenges that you're having.
And then also this athleticphysical empowerment and a lot
(13:27):
of women and it's changing nowsignificantly but a lot of women
weren't raised with sport beingsomething that was parallel to
their being growing up.
So they're coming into sportand finding it so to use the
word again empowering orenlightening, or just something
that they hadn't beenexperiencing before, and that's,
(13:49):
in these women's groups, like abreast in a boat.
That's, I think, quite asignificant part for a lot of
them.
I've never been an athletebefore.
And then to treat them, whenyou're coaching them, as, yeah,
you're not a breast cancer.
That's not why we're definingyou.
You're an athlete now.
And if you're an athlete, Iexpect this of you.
I expect you to listen, Iexpect you to try to do what I
(14:10):
say, and you expect me to giveyou feedback as to whether or
not you're accomplishing whatwe're trying to accomplish.
Susannah Steers (14:18):
And it seems like, if you're in a place where
it feels, maybe, like your bodyhas betrayed you, or that
you're, you know that all of asudden you can do something and,
like you say, it's thatempowering all of a sudden okay,
look, this body can do allthese fabulous things.
That's pretty amazing.
Yeah, now I'm going to turn itto you, because I know you've
had your own cancer journey.
(14:39):
Are there things that youlearned from your Abreast in a
Boat athletes that have helpedyou along your journey?
Are there things that coachingand paddling have brought to you
during that process?
Kamini Jain (14:53):
So it's been five years of two cancer diagnoses
and a whole crap load oftreatments luckily not chemo,
and so I've been fortunate inthat regard.
But it's a little bit differentfor me because, as opposed to
what you just said, where DragonBoat has shown these people
that they're in control of theirbody, sport has shown me that
I'm not.
Like with cancer.
I am not in control.
(15:13):
There's a vulnerability there.
It is so much harder to get upand to do anything because
everything comes with adiscomfort.
So in that way it has taught mewhat it is like for anybody
who's going through.
I already knew what it was likeif you injured your shoulder,
but if you injure your shoulder,you injured it doing something
(15:33):
fun, right?
Not getting radiation, 25treatments in a row.
So just that vulnerability andunderstanding how, yeah, we're
out to feel empowered but at thesame time, the discomfort can
be victimizing.
And trying to figure out, formy own sake and for coaching,
how to balance those two things.
Susannah Steers (15:53):
Right, well, that was going to be next
question.
H as it shifted how you coach?
Kamini Jain (15:58):
I don't think it has.
Um, I started off as quite ahard-nosed coach and then I did
a master's in leadership and Ibecame a soft, squishy coach,
and that didn't work for anybody.
So I'm sitting somewhere in themiddle, I think, now.
But I think this illness hasjust made me think that
everybody else, if you'rehealthy, then just get out and
(16:21):
do it right, Like just get itdone.
And if you're my teammate, getit done too, because I can't get
it done.
So can you please do my parttoo?
And I say that in jest, I don'tthink it really affects my
coaching much, really.
Susannah Steers (16:35):
I'm curious, too, about your choice to go and
do your master's in leadership.
I understand the motivation.
I'm curious to know why itshifted you from a hard nose
coach to a squishy coach.
Kamini Jain (16:47):
Because they tell you.
They tell you why I decided todo it was I wanted to see.
You know, as an athlete I had alot of different coaches, most
of them really good.
A couple of them taught me hownot to be, but most of them I
really learned a lot from inpositive ways.
And then I just thought, well,what does the scholastic side of
(17:08):
this look like and is there away I can move into a different
form of business?
And I went through it all and Istayed in the same business.
So what they taught me wasthings like you know, you got to
listen to people, yeah,obviously, but a lot of these
sort of soft skills of I kept,just kept getting the impression
(17:29):
that I had to be nicer and Iwas never that stereotypical
Eastern European coach which Ihad, many of which they were,
and you know, you learn how to,how to work with them and you
actually get a lot out of them.
But that won't work for a nonelite athlete.
Susannah Steers (17:44):
There's a level when I think back to some of my
ballet teachers or danceteachers over the years and
you'll get an inconvenientlittle pain in your buttocks and
you keep going.
That's cute, good accent.
But you know all of this stuffwhere it was, it seemed pretty
harsh at the time and there weretears.
(18:05):
And certainly when I thinkabout being pushed into
positions, physically pushedinto positions, or pulled into
positions to make it happen, andthere's no way you know I would
never lay my hands on anybodythe way that it was for me in my
twenties but sometimes I wonderthere's a line between being
nice and being effective andsometimes you really do have to
(18:28):
say no, that's not working, stepit up.
Kamini Jain (18:31):
I agree you got to harden up.
You can't be an athlete and besoft.
You got to harden up.
You got to ride through yourbumps.
You got to ride through thetough teammates, the pains.
But then you got to be smart.
If you got a pain, you got togo to a therapist.
You have to do something aboutit.
You have to learn what yourcoach wants.
You have to learn how to be agood teammate.
There's all sorts of thingsthat make that tough love
(18:54):
actually work for you.
But soft love doesn't work, Idon't think, for athletes.
Susannah Steers (18:58):
Well and how to advocate for yourself.
That, I think, was one of thebiggest lessons that I learned
was you know, what's good forthe sport is not always good for
the body in terms of whetherit's techniques or positions or
repetition or whatever it is,and there are ways that you have
to look after yourself, and theway your bestie looks after
herself or himself is notnecessarily going to be what
(19:20):
works for you.
So you can use the community tolearn, but you do have to learn
and figure out.
Like you say, you got to go getthe treatment if you need the
treatment, you got to stop.
If you need to stop, you needto do all those things.
Maybe that is just growing up.
Kamini Jain (19:35):
And I think athletics is either a really
long journey where you livethrough the ups and downs and
stuff, or it can be a reasonablyshort journey where you succeed
in a short amount of time andthen you stop before you have to
deal with the ups and downs ofthings breaking and stuff like
that.
Susannah Steers (19:51):
I thought you were going to say you blow out.
But yeah, that's another avenue.
Right, stop before you blow out.
I know that you do a bunch ofcoaching clinics all over the
world and I call it a clinic.
That might not be what you callit.
How do those work?
Who comes?
Kamini Jain (20:12):
So good, I do a variety of things.
Like a team will ask me to comeand coach, so I'll go and coach
them.
It could be an outrigger teamor dragon boat team and then
just go, or it can be I do somecamps.
So like I'm going down to theStates, I'll do some camps and
people sign up so anybody cansign up for them.
One of them is in Arizona, soit's five days and then we race
in a dragon boat regatta.
So a lot of people from my ownteams that I coach at Falls
Creek come to that, and as wellas a variety of people from all
(20:35):
over come to that, and I've donethem in France and Thailand.
Yeah, it's just really great tohave Outrigger in California.
So that's just like try to putit out to the universe and have
people sign up.
That's fantastic.
Susannah Steers (20:49):
Yeah, it's really fun.
And then have you got stuff.
I mean there's the bigcompetition coming up in June
here.
Have you got teams preparingfor that?
Kamini Jain (20:58):
Yeah, my focus is on two teams.
One is a women's team of over60s.
They're really great.
We went to a world event lastyear and won two of the three
distances, so that was prettycool.
So I wanted to take more of abreak from coaching, but they
wanted to get out on the water,so we have been out and it's
proving to be.
We've had two practices so farand they're rocking it.
(21:19):
And then a group of youngermixed, so men and women in a
younger group.
Those are my two focuses.
Susannah Steers (21:26):
So we know who to root for when it comes to
June.
That's right, june at FallsCreek, we're looking for those
two teams.
The other thing I wanted totalk about today was how we met,
because I think, it's kind of amagical story.
It really is.
We met over the love of a dog,and so maybe I'll let you tell
(21:47):
the first part, because you knowthis part.
Kamini Jain (21:50):
This is one of the most amazing things in my life.
My father is Indian.
So we were in India and outsideof Delhi, a place called Noida,
and we just arrived the daybefore and the night before
staying at my uncle's house, andmy mom, myself and my niece had
gone for a walk and there wasthis dog standing there this
really busy road.
And there's this dog standingnext to these tuk-tuk drivers
(22:10):
and she's standing on three legsand she's the cutest little dog
you ever saw, tricolored andsort of looks like she's got
some whippet in her and thensomething else.
And she's standing there onthree legs.
And then I look away and then Ilook back and she's standing
right next to my niece and I.
She's just standing therelooking into space, just
standing there, and I look ather leg and she's got this like
three inch gouge right down tothe bone on the bottom of one of
(22:33):
her legs and she's just lookingthere, standing there.
So I'm like, okay, we got tosave this doggie.
So I sent my mom somewhere.
My cousin went to see what hecould do.
He didn't.
He thought I was crazy.
And then I stood there tryingto hold this dog because she was
starting to shake.
So I was holding her leg up andthen I'm like, oh, what the
hell?
I'm just going to see if she'llsit on my lap.
So I'm sitting there.
She was so sweet, she's sittingon my lap.
(22:56):
We ended up getting into arickshaw.
It's on my lap.
We're driving, we think we knowwhere there's a vet, but there
was no vet.
Then we found a vet.
And in this vet we ran into awoman from we'd driven on this
rickshaw forever, but shebrought in her street dog and
she lived like a block from myuncle and she fed all the street
dogs.
So it was like the mostfortuitous thing ever.
(23:17):
So this dog that I called Choti, which means little one in
Hindi, she got her treatment.
She was so sweet, her mouth wasso soft even as she was getting
these sizzling treatments, andthis woman Nidhi said let me
know where you leave her andI'll make sure she gets her
medicine every day.
But I couldn't leave her.
I brought her to my uncle'splace.
Oh man, he was so pissed.
Anyway, long story short, needyended up having a friend with a
(23:40):
shelter.
They took Choji to the shelterI organized to get her to Canada
.
I had a friend who, I was solucky, agreed to take her and
then she came to Canada and shelived with them for a couple of
years, but it didn't work outwith her other dog and then she
ended up with you?
Susannah Steers (23:56):
She did.
You know we had gone to theSPCA and you know we'd had a dog
for years.
We moved to this apartment andand the dog that we'd had
reached the end of his life andmy son was like we need another
dog, we need another dog.
So we went to the SPCA and he'dseen her online already and
said, NOW.
(24:16):
We're going.
And so we went and we took herfor a walk and did all the
things and anyway, long storyshort, finally ended up bringing
her home and she has justfulfilled our lives.
It's been really, really fun.
I was talking to a client abouther and telling the story that
we found this dog and she camefrom India and we were really
(24:38):
excited about her and her namewas Choti.
And this woman her eyes justopened right up and she said
what she said I know this dog.
I said what are you talkingabout?
You know this dog.
She said do you have a picture?
And I said yes.
So I showed her a picture andshe said oh my God, I know this
dog.
She had been one of yourathletes over the years and
recognized Choti and put ustogether, and so I always love
(25:02):
to say that she's got a fairygodmother.
Kamini Jain (25:05):
Oh, does she ever! I was so scared to contact you
because I thought you might sayI don't want anything to do with
you and then I'd be so sad.
But I thought I'd never seethis dog again.
I was visiting her at the SPCAand then she was not there
anymore.
She's great.
Susannah Steers (25:20):
I think that's great.
So we have this shared lifebetween us, which I think is
really fun, and that we get towalk her together sometimes is
pretty special, sweet, yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Kamini, for joining me today.
Thank you, I will put in theshow notes your website and
where people can find you.
Is there anything that you wantpeople to know about that's
(25:43):
coming up?
Kamini Jain (25:44):
Yeah, just come to the Vancouver Festival and see
what the sport is all about.
It's pretty fun.
It's got all sorts ofentertainment and all sorts of
things going on.
And then cheer for Falls CreekRacing Canoe Club Woo-woo.
Susannah Steers (25:56):
All right, well , thank you so much for joining
me, and I hope we'll gettogether for a walk again soon.
Kamini Jain (26:02):
Sounds good.
Thanks, Susannah.
Susannah Steers (26:03):
Bye-bye,
Kamini Jain (26:04):
Bye
Susannah Steers (26:04):
.
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast.
I'm Susanna Steers and I'll beyour host as we explore the
heart, soul and science ofmovement as a pathway to more
active, vibrant and connectedliving.
Nothing happens until somethingmoves, so let's get started.
You might not know this, butdragon boat racing is a big deal
(00:21):
in Canada, with more than80,000 people participating
annually in over 300 festivalsand events across the country.
In fact, the biggest, mostcompetitive dragon boat festival
in North America, the CanadianInternational Dragon Boat
Festival, happens every yearright here in Vancouver in June
and, judging by the scores ofinternational awards, it seems
(00:43):
that Canadians are pretty goodat it too.
Today I'm thrilled to introduceyou to maybe one of the reasons
why.
Kamini Jain is the heart, souland drive behind Right Angle
Performance, providinghigh-performance paddle sport
coaching to folks all over theworld.
As an athlete herself, Kaminispent nine years on the Canadian
(01:05):
National Sprint Kayak Team,winning 11 World Cup medals and
competing in two Olympic finalsin 2000 and 2004.
I could list her coachinghighlights, but we'd be here for
a while.
She's been inducted into theInternational Dragon Boat
Federation Hall of Fame, theCanadian Outrigger Hall of Fame
and the Canadian Dragon BoatHall of Fame.
Clearly to say she understandspaddling is an understatement.
(01:28):
I wanted to connect with Kaminiabout her experiences as an
athlete and a coach and to findout what she's learned about
life from her 30-odd years ofsuccess in the sport.
Welcome to the podcast.
Kamini Jain (01:40):
Kamini.
Thank you, Susanna.
It's really great to be hereand talk to you today.
Susannah Steers (01:51):
Well, I kind of feel like I'm in the presence
of Canadian paddle sport royalty.
You've racked up some seriousstats and awards over the years,
but maybe we can start withsome humble beginnings.
Where did it all start for you?
What drew you to the sport?
Kamini Jain (02:00):
Humble beginnings are that I always gravitated
towards athletics, especiallythe individual ones, because I
was a really, really shy kid.
So it just gave me a way tofeel like I expressed myself and
to feel quite comfortable inmyself and in my body.
So when I found kayak as a14-year-old nearly 15-year-old
(02:21):
it just seemed like the thing,because there's nothing more
isolating, nothing more singularthan being in a kayak racing
out by yourself, but at the sametime there are crew boats.
So that fulfilled my need to besocialized and I did love
having friends and I started ata time when there were girls my
(02:41):
own age, so we just became likeinseparable, fast friends
through our whole lives to thisdate.
Susannah Steers (02:48):
Oh, I love it.
So when you were in it and youwere in your canoe and you had
your teammates that you wereworking with, was it that that
kept you going, or did you haveOlympic dreams even then?
Kamini Jain (02:59):
Well, I had Olympic dreams, since I was 11 years
old and watched Chariots of Fire.
There were a couple sort offormative things in my life.
One was that my neighbors weretwins, super popular and super,
you know, like we were friends.
But again, I was shy and theirdad was just a couple inches off
of making the Olympic team whenhe was a young man.
(03:19):
So they would talk about it, no, as a high jumper, so high
jumper.
So they would talk about how hecould jump over the house and
how he was so amazing.
So that put Olympics in my head.
And then watching Chariots ofFire in 1981, and my mom really
loving the whole feeling behindthat movie also, way that one
could excel or, you know,fulfill a need to, you know,
(03:49):
feel successful.
Susannah Steers (03:51):
So when you got to those finish lines, did you
hear that anthem, did you hearthat soundtrack playing in your
head?
Kamini Jain (04:01):
No, not really.
Susannah Steers (04:02):
I just need to breathe.
I just need to breathe.
Kamini Jain (04:04):
Yes, yes.
It comes to mind that thecharacter that I actually looked
up to the most was thesteeplechase runner and women
didn't race steeplechase untilrecently because I did want to
be a runner at one point, butthe picture of him he's always
in mud.
He wasn't the most known, hewasn't the star of the movie,
(04:25):
but he was the one that Ithought and it was just the
blood, sweat and tears and mudthat was part of his story.
That work ethic, real process,real process oriented and loving
the actual moment that you'rein.
Susannah Steers (04:39):
Oh, I love it.
There's something that kind ofhas to shift, though, right when
you go from being arecreational athlete and you're
hanging with your friends andyou're in high school and you're
doing things to the point wherenow you're a serious athlete on
track to major internationalcompetitions, and it seems to me
that at that point you got tobe living, eating and breathing
(05:01):
the sport and your conditioningfor it to be able to perform at
that next level and I know youcan speak to this as an athlete
and as a coach but what createsthat high performance athlete
who's going to do well in thosesettings?
Kamini Jain (05:16):
Well, you know what , in my experience I've, you
know, obviously, I've met a lotof high performance athletes and
there is a variation betweenthem.
There's a variation in theirmotivation and their backgrounds
and you know how they approachsuccess.
Some train really fast and racethe same, some train not as
fast but then race spectacularlywell, and some had parents in
(05:36):
the sport.
Some, you know, there's just awhole variation in it, but it
wasn't something that we talkedabout a lot Like why do you do
this, right?
But for me it was not really achoice.
It's one of those passionatethings where this is what I'm
going to do and if I don'tcontinue it until I feel like
I've given every shot atsucceeding, I am going to have
(05:58):
regrets and at the end of theday, I'm going to have regrets
anyway, because you don't knowhow to reach the top of a
journey when you've never donethe journey before.
So I think that's one of thereasons why I coach is because I
have that look back and say, oh, if you know this or this, this
should be in place, this wasgood, this could have been
(06:18):
better.
You know, all of those sort ofhindsight things that in some
way I'm trying to fill thosegaps
Susannah Steers (06:24):
Okay, so as an athlete who works with a whole
array and as a coach who workswith a whole array of different
kinds of paddlers, you must havea pretty deep understanding of
the different paddlingtechniques required for each.
I can't imagine that kayakingtechniques are the same as you
would use in a dragon boat, sowhat kind of crossover is
between them and how did you getinvolved from kayaking into all
(06:46):
of these different kinds ofpaddle sports?
Kamini Jain (06:54):
Yeah, well, what's really interesting is that I
find there is a lot of crossoverin some of the fundamental
things of certain ergonomicsmake for a strong stroke,
certain ways of movement makefor balance, and best
transmission or myinterpretation of best
transmission of linear movementof a canoe or kayak.
Equipment is different, seatingposition is different, but a
lot of it is the same.
(07:14):
But one of the things that'sgreat cool about upbringing and
sprint canoe is that I was akayaker but we also dabbled in
high kneel canoe.
We also, as Canadians, we havethis really cool sport called
war canoe, where you're highkneeling, meaning on one knee
with the other leg forward, andthere's seven of you on each
side and then you have acoxswain steering standing up on
the back, so that's like ouriconic Canadian sprint sport.
(07:37):
So it gave, you know, gave us awhole avenue of, yeah, a paddle
with what we'd call a doublebladed kayak, but also had that
experience in the single bladed.
And then started dragon boatingat 19, just to do more cross
training.
It was always like, you know,when you're 19, boundless energy
, let's just do more.
Susannah Steers (07:55):
More, more, more, more!
Kamini Jain (07:56):
And then, you know, just started the club that I'm
at, falls Creek Racing CanoeClub down on Granville Island.
We have outrigger canoes.
So you jump into that, becauseby this time I was social.
You jump into those things.
You get invited to a race toHawaii, so you just do it.
But there's similarities,there's differences.
That come into the kind ofwater.
Hawaiian water is differentthan Falls Creek water.
You wouldn't paddle a sprintkayak down in the ocean in
(08:16):
Hawaii but yeah, there's a lotof carryover.
Susannah Steers (08:19):
And as you're training those athletes I can
hear it in your voice.
You're dealing with differentkinds of water and different
equipment and different seatingpositions.
So there's technical aspects.
There's even just in terms oftraining the capacity of the
athlete to do the job.
What kind of things do paddlingathletes do to prepare for the
sport other than paddle?
Kamini Jain (08:41):
Other than paddle.
Lots of gym work.
It's a power sport.
You got to pack on some muscles.
It's a power sport.
You got to pack on some muscles.
You know a lot of paddlers herewhere we are in Vancouver,
because we have paddling allyear round and I'm coaching sort
of recreational high-end thing,not Olympic-level athletes now.
So they'll go to the gym.
If they like running, they'llrun.
(09:02):
If they like skiing, they'llski.
Eastern Canadians will ski,they will swim.
Susannah Steers (09:11):
Years ago I was working with a sports
psychologist who asked me what Idid when I was working with
athletes who would literallykill.
To get the point, in my work,most of the time I'm not working
with athletes right up againsttheir competitions.
If I'm working with athletes,it's usually as a way to survive
their sport, to help them beable to move forces through
their bodies better with betterefficiency, that kind of thing.
(09:32):
But what I find interesting isworking with high-level athletes
.
Whether it's high-level,recreational or high, you know,
internationally, there's a driveto get the job done, push to
train to their absolute limitsand to push always, always,
always for getting better.
I know in my years as a dancer,rest was like a four-letter
word and I guess that there'sthe young part there too.
(09:55):
But I think things have changeda lot over the years.
But there's still that in orderto perform at that level you
got to be pushing the edges allthe time.
So how do you balance highintensity needs of that kind of
training with things like safedevelopment, rest, appropriate
supports for the athlete inpursuit of the sport?
Kamini Jain (10:16):
Yeah, as an elite athlete it was relatively easy
to do that once a certain levelwas attained.
It wasn't easy as a fighting toget on national team because
you weren't very smart yet, youdidn't know what your limits
were, so it was super easy toovertrain.
I would imagine most of usspent a couple of years where we
kind of trained too much andgot injured and got slow and all
(10:39):
that sort of stuff that we onewould expect.
But once you made the team,then it was easier because
finances were somewhat easier.
You know, you're often away attraining camps, so basically you
ate, slept and trained, so thatwas easier.
In the realm that I'm coachingright now, everybody has
full-time jobs or they'refull-time students or you know,
and they train when they can.
(10:59):
They come after work, they'retired.
The challenge is for them tolearn how to put in everything
they can for that, because it'soften distracted training as
opposed to an Olympian.
What are you going to bedistracted by, right?
So that's one of the challengesis how do you get them to
actually focus so they can dowhat you're saying is prepare to
(11:19):
their maximum each time, but atthe same time, yes, they need
their rest.
They can't go to work from nineto five and train every night
and train every morning.
There needs to be some managingof their expectations based on
their current fitness level,their health, their one could
say age.
But we'll say that can go inwith current fitness level and
health.
So, yeah, that's a learning.
(11:41):
Some of them just get too tired, like the whole team might.
You might be a certain time inthe year and you get too many
people saying they're sick.
It's like no, no, can't workthis boat with three people.
Yeah, yeah, and it's a matterof just being okay with being
tired sometimes and knowing thedifference with yeah, it's okay,
I'm tired.
That's what being an athlete isabout and being like, oh, I am
(12:02):
too tired.
Susannah Steers (12:03):
When it's going to tip over into injury or just
not being able to function inyour own life.
Kamini Jain (12:09):
Right, you know the other stuff you got to do,
right.
Susannah Steers (12:11):
Well, I know you've been involved with the
Abreast in a Boat dragon boatorganization and I know you've
coached paddlers recovering frombreast cancer to go on to win
gold medals around the world.
I've worked with some of thefolks who competed and I know
how much that experience oftraining and becoming champions,
how much that meant to them,especially while they were in
(12:34):
the midst of this whole cancerjourney.
At the same time, what do youthink that dragon boating brings
to people, and maybe especiallyto folks dealing with cancer?
Kamini Jain (12:44):
Well, definitely brings a support network.
You know, with the, I'll talkabout the, the non-breast cancer
teams, for a second.
It brings like friends,definitely brings a support
network.
You know, with the, I'll talkabout the non-breast cancer
teams for a second.
It brings like friends.
It brings dating opportunities.
You know that I don't have togo online.
I'm going to join Dragon Boatteam, that sort of thing.
It brings fitness, it bringshealth and for these other,
there's a lot of specialinterest groups that are in
(13:04):
Dragon Boat and the breastcancer paddlers, as you say, is
a huge one.
And it brings them, you know,it brings them into an
environment where people knowabout the options of treatment,
they know about how tired youare, they know about what they
can advise you for certain,helping with you with certain
challenges that you're having.
And then also this athleticphysical empowerment and a lot
(13:27):
of women and it's changing nowsignificantly but a lot of women
weren't raised with sport beingsomething that was parallel to
their being growing up.
So they're coming into sportand finding it so to use the
word again empowering orenlightening, or just something
that they hadn't beenexperiencing before, and that's,
(13:49):
in these women's groups, like abreast in a boat.
That's, I think, quite asignificant part for a lot of
them.
I've never been an athletebefore.
And then to treat them, whenyou're coaching them, as, yeah,
you're not a breast cancer.
That's not why we're definingyou.
You're an athlete now.
And if you're an athlete, Iexpect this of you.
I expect you to listen, Iexpect you to try to do what I
(14:10):
say, and you expect me to giveyou feedback as to whether or
not you're accomplishing whatwe're trying to accomplish.
Susannah Steers (14:18):
And it seems like, if you're in a place where
it feels, maybe, like your bodyhas betrayed you, or that
you're, you know that all of asudden you can do something and,
like you say, it's thatempowering all of a sudden okay,
look, this body can do allthese fabulous things.
That's pretty amazing.
Yeah, now I'm going to turn itto you, because I know you've
had your own cancer journey.
(14:39):
Are there things that youlearned from your Abreast in a
Boat athletes that have helpedyou along your journey?
Are there things that coachingand paddling have brought to you
during that process?
Kamini Jain (14:53):
So it's been five years of two cancer diagnoses
and a whole crap load oftreatments luckily not chemo,
and so I've been fortunate inthat regard.
But it's a little bit differentfor me because, as opposed to
what you just said, where DragonBoat has shown these people
that they're in control of theirbody, sport has shown me that
I'm not.
Like with cancer.
I am not in control.
(15:13):
There's a vulnerability there.
It is so much harder to get upand to do anything because
everything comes with adiscomfort.
So in that way it has taught mewhat it is like for anybody
who's going through.
I already knew what it was likeif you injured your shoulder,
but if you injure your shoulder,you injured it doing something
(15:33):
fun, right?
Not getting radiation, 25treatments in a row.
So just that vulnerability andunderstanding how, yeah, we're
out to feel empowered but at thesame time, the discomfort can
be victimizing.
And trying to figure out, formy own sake and for coaching,
how to balance those two things.
Susannah Steers (15:53):
Right, well, that was going to be next
question.
H as it shifted how you coach?
Kamini Jain (15:58):
I don't think it has.
Um, I started off as quite ahard-nosed coach and then I did
a master's in leadership and Ibecame a soft, squishy coach,
and that didn't work for anybody.
So I'm sitting somewhere in themiddle, I think, now.
But I think this illness hasjust made me think that
everybody else, if you'rehealthy, then just get out and
(16:21):
do it right, Like just get itdone.
And if you're my teammate, getit done too, because I can't get
it done.
So can you please do my parttoo?
And I say that in jest, I don'tthink it really affects my
coaching much, really.
Susannah Steers (16:35):
I'm curious, too, about your choice to go and
do your master's in leadership.
I understand the motivation.
I'm curious to know why itshifted you from a hard nose
coach to a squishy coach.
Kamini Jain (16:47):
Because they tell you.
They tell you why I decided todo it was I wanted to see.
You know, as an athlete I had alot of different coaches, most
of them really good.
A couple of them taught me hownot to be, but most of them I
really learned a lot from inpositive ways.
And then I just thought, well,what does the scholastic side of
(17:08):
this look like and is there away I can move into a different
form of business?
And I went through it all and Istayed in the same business.
So what they taught me wasthings like you know, you got to
listen to people, yeah,obviously, but a lot of these
sort of soft skills of I kept,just kept getting the impression
(17:29):
that I had to be nicer and Iwas never that stereotypical
Eastern European coach which Ihad, many of which they were,
and you know, you learn how to,how to work with them and you
actually get a lot out of them.
But that won't work for a nonelite athlete.
Susannah Steers (17:44):
There's a level when I think back to some of my
ballet teachers or danceteachers over the years and
you'll get an inconvenientlittle pain in your buttocks and
you keep going.
That's cute, good accent.
But you know all of this stuffwhere it was, it seemed pretty
harsh at the time and there weretears.
(18:05):
And certainly when I thinkabout being pushed into
positions, physically pushedinto positions, or pulled into
positions to make it happen, andthere's no way you know I would
never lay my hands on anybodythe way that it was for me in my
twenties but sometimes I wonderthere's a line between being
nice and being effective andsometimes you really do have to
(18:28):
say no, that's not working, stepit up.
Kamini Jain (18:31):
I agree you got to harden up.
You can't be an athlete and besoft.
You got to harden up.
You got to ride through yourbumps.
You got to ride through thetough teammates, the pains.
But then you got to be smart.
If you got a pain, you got togo to a therapist.
You have to do something aboutit.
You have to learn what yourcoach wants.
You have to learn how to be agood teammate.
There's all sorts of thingsthat make that tough love
(18:54):
actually work for you.
But soft love doesn't work, Idon't think, for athletes.
Susannah Steers (18:58):
Well and how to advocate for yourself.
That, I think, was one of thebiggest lessons that I learned
was you know, what's good forthe sport is not always good for
the body in terms of whetherit's techniques or positions or
repetition or whatever it is,and there are ways that you have
to look after yourself, and theway your bestie looks after
herself or himself is notnecessarily going to be what
(19:20):
works for you.
So you can use the community tolearn, but you do have to learn
and figure out.
Like you say, you got to go getthe treatment if you need the
treatment, you got to stop.
If you need to stop, you needto do all those things.
Maybe that is just growing up.
Kamini Jain (19:35):
And I think athletics is either a really
long journey where you livethrough the ups and downs and
stuff, or it can be a reasonablyshort journey where you succeed
in a short amount of time andthen you stop before you have to
deal with the ups and downs ofthings breaking and stuff like
that.
Susannah Steers (19:51):
I thought you were going to say you blow out.
But yeah, that's another avenue.
Right, stop before you blow out.
I know that you do a bunch ofcoaching clinics all over the
world and I call it a clinic.
That might not be what you callit.
How do those work?
Who comes?
Kamini Jain (20:12):
So good, I do a variety of things.
Like a team will ask me to comeand coach, so I'll go and coach
them.
It could be an outrigger teamor dragon boat team and then
just go, or it can be I do somecamps.
So like I'm going down to theStates, I'll do some camps and
people sign up so anybody cansign up for them.
One of them is in Arizona, soit's five days and then we race
in a dragon boat regatta.
So a lot of people from my ownteams that I coach at Falls
Creek come to that, and as wellas a variety of people from all
(20:35):
over come to that, and I've donethem in France and Thailand.
Yeah, it's just really great tohave Outrigger in California.
So that's just like try to putit out to the universe and have
people sign up.
That's fantastic.
Susannah Steers (20:49):
Yeah, it's really fun.
And then have you got stuff.
I mean there's the bigcompetition coming up in June
here.
Have you got teams preparingfor that?
Kamini Jain (20:58):
Yeah, my focus is on two teams.
One is a women's team of over60s.
They're really great.
We went to a world event lastyear and won two of the three
distances, so that was prettycool.
So I wanted to take more of abreak from coaching, but they
wanted to get out on the water,so we have been out and it's
proving to be.
We've had two practices so farand they're rocking it.
(21:19):
And then a group of youngermixed, so men and women in a
younger group.
Those are my two focuses.
Susannah Steers (21:26):
So we know who to root for when it comes to
June.
That's right, june at FallsCreek, we're looking for those
two teams.
The other thing I wanted totalk about today was how we met,
because I think, it's kind of amagical story.
It really is.
We met over the love of a dog,and so maybe I'll let you tell
(21:47):
the first part, because you knowthis part.
Kamini Jain (21:50):
This is one of the most amazing things in my life.
My father is Indian.
So we were in India and outsideof Delhi, a place called Noida,
and we just arrived the daybefore and the night before
staying at my uncle's house, andmy mom, myself and my niece had
gone for a walk and there wasthis dog standing there this
really busy road.
And there's this dog standingnext to these tuk-tuk drivers
(22:10):
and she's standing on three legsand she's the cutest little dog
you ever saw, tricolored andsort of looks like she's got
some whippet in her and thensomething else.
And she's standing there onthree legs.
And then I look away and then Ilook back and she's standing
right next to my niece and I.
She's just standing therelooking into space, just
standing there, and I look ather leg and she's got this like
three inch gouge right down tothe bone on the bottom of one of
(22:33):
her legs and she's just lookingthere, standing there.
So I'm like, okay, we got tosave this doggie.
So I sent my mom somewhere.
My cousin went to see what hecould do.
He didn't.
He thought I was crazy.
And then I stood there tryingto hold this dog because she was
starting to shake.
So I was holding her leg up andthen I'm like, oh, what the
hell?
I'm just going to see if she'llsit on my lap.
So I'm sitting there.
She was so sweet, she's sittingon my lap.
(22:56):
We ended up getting into arickshaw.
It's on my lap.
We're driving, we think we knowwhere there's a vet, but there
was no vet.
Then we found a vet.
And in this vet we ran into awoman from we'd driven on this
rickshaw forever, but shebrought in her street dog and
she lived like a block from myuncle and she fed all the street
dogs.
So it was like the mostfortuitous thing ever.
(23:17):
So this dog that I called Choti, which means little one in
Hindi, she got her treatment.
She was so sweet, her mouth wasso soft even as she was getting
these sizzling treatments, andthis woman Nidhi said let me
know where you leave her andI'll make sure she gets her
medicine every day.
But I couldn't leave her.
I brought her to my uncle'splace.
Oh man, he was so pissed.
Anyway, long story short, needyended up having a friend with a
(23:40):
shelter.
They took Choji to the shelterI organized to get her to Canada
.
I had a friend who, I was solucky, agreed to take her and
then she came to Canada and shelived with them for a couple of
years, but it didn't work outwith her other dog and then she
ended up with you?
Susannah Steers (23:56):
She did.
You know we had gone to theSPCA and you know we'd had a dog
for years.
We moved to this apartment andand the dog that we'd had
reached the end of his life andmy son was like we need another
dog, we need another dog.
So we went to the SPCA and he'dseen her online already and
said, NOW.
(24:16):
We're going.
And so we went and we took herfor a walk and did all the
things and anyway, long storyshort, finally ended up bringing
her home and she has justfulfilled our lives.
It's been really, really fun.
I was talking to a client abouther and telling the story that
we found this dog and she camefrom India and we were really
(24:38):
excited about her and her namewas Choti.
And this woman her eyes justopened right up and she said
what she said I know this dog.
I said what are you talkingabout?
You know this dog.
She said do you have a picture?
And I said yes.
So I showed her a picture andshe said oh my God, I know this
dog.
She had been one of yourathletes over the years and
recognized Choti and put ustogether, and so I always love
(25:02):
to say that she's got a fairygodmother.
Kamini Jain (25:05):
Oh, does she ever! I was so scared to contact you
because I thought you might sayI don't want anything to do with
you and then I'd be so sad.
But I thought I'd never seethis dog again.
I was visiting her at the SPCAand then she was not there
anymore.
She's great.
Susannah Steers (25:20):
I think that's great.
So we have this shared lifebetween us, which I think is
really fun, and that we get towalk her together sometimes is
pretty special, sweet, yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Kamini, for joining me today.
Thank you, I will put in theshow notes your website and
where people can find you.
Is there anything that you wantpeople to know about that's
(25:43):
coming up?
Kamini Jain (25:44):
Yeah, just come to the Vancouver Festival and see
what the sport is all about.
It's pretty fun.
It's got all sorts ofentertainment and all sorts of
things going on.
And then cheer for Falls CreekRacing Canoe Club Woo-woo.
Susannah Steers (25:56):
All right, well , thank you so much for joining
me, and I hope we'll gettogether for a walk again soon.
Kamini Jain (26:02):
Sounds good.
Thanks, Susannah.
Susannah Steers (26:03):
Bye-bye,
Kamini Jain (26:04):
Bye
Susannah Steers (26:04):
.
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