February 1, 2024 • 48 mins
In episode 52, Mitch Wallis speaks to Maddy MacRae, a comedy creator who exploded onto the scene during lockdown with her hilarious and relatable skits about sex, dating and everything in-between. We go deep and explore previously untouched topics such as her mental health journey, her sexuality and the reality of life online.
This episode covers:
- rising quickly to online success but struggling internally
- her experience with therapy and navigating severe anxiety
- an obsessive concern that kept her paralysed on content creation
- navigating the rollercoaster of going viral online and chasing validation
- how to audit your belief system, build thick skin and stop people pleasing
- exploring sexuality, attachment style and enmeshment in her relationships
Stay connected:
www.instagram.com/maddy_macrae_
www.tiktok.com/@maddy_macrae_
www.instagram.com/mitch.wallis
Have feedback to share, questions you want answered or guests you want to see on the show? Get in touch: contact@mitchwallis.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Alright, we're on it. I wonder what you mean when you
use the word I use the word Idi,kicking break.
We have aversion to ourselves and to what's happening inside
(00:21):
us, inside of us. I've been very interested in
this problem for a long, long time.
Something settles today's guest is Maddie Mccrae, an Australian
content creator and very, very popular social media maker who
(00:45):
has exploded onto the scene on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
She is fucking hilarious. I was watching a few of her
videos in preparation for the interview and I was just killing
myself. She she talks about everything
from sex and dating to body image and memes and jokes with
parents. It truly is a unique and witty
(01:07):
and highly relatable style. She's got over 3 million fans
and she also is the Co host of the podcast.
Sometimes funny, always awkward.I hope you enjoy our discussion,
where of course in my field we get personal.
Ask her about her lived experience, her mental health
journey and how she's kind of processed and dealt with some of
(01:29):
her biggest fears that could have potentially held her back a
lot, moving into a public domainspace as she has.
But she talks about how she's worked with them and through
them to overcome and reach the other side where she is today,
still managing and needing to dothe daily work like we all are,
but not letting it hold her back.
(01:50):
So I'm stoked to be able to bring you this discussion with
Miss Mattie McRae. Maddie McRae.
Hey. It's so good to have you.
Here thank. You are.
Are you comfortable? Yeah, this couch is beautiful.
(02:12):
So comfortable. So we're trying this couch
thing. More of a home setup than the
studio, but I wanna make sure that like the the the guest
feels like they can settle in. Do you feel settled?
In Yeah, I could cry, You could cry.
Is that what's happening? That's what I was going.
For yeah, we're gonna. Cry.
(02:33):
I was going for high cry. For yeah, yeah, yeah, I could
cry. OK, cool that.
So, Speaking of crying, we usually like to start these
chats by asking what's a opinionthat you hold about mental
health that is controversial butyou wholeheartedly believe.
God, what a big question. Something about mental health
(02:55):
that I believe that's maybe controversial.
I don't think it is controversial.
I think we talk about it enough.I think we talk about it enough.
So what don't we do enough of? In society, I'm I'm trying to
(03:19):
think about my circle in generalis that I don't think I OK, let
me retract that statement. My circle, my close circle, my
family circle. I don't think we talk about it
enough. But people who are not as close
to me, I'm so much more open to talk to them about it.
Does that make sense? The people closest to me I find
(03:41):
hardest to talk about it. That's an interesting point and
I think many people can relate to that, which is it's almost
easier to make a social media thing like mental health is
really important. We all struggle.
And it's on a broad sense. Yeah.
Not quite in detail and so like in terms of being that really
(04:01):
vulnerable person and and givingthe most detailed, having the
most detailed chats with someone, I don't know where to
go. So it's either on a broad sense
to everyone or like I'm not ableto be detailed enough unless
it's with a professional person.Do you think that speaking to a
(04:21):
professional instead of speakingto a wider audience is harder
because you're forced to contemplate your own bullshit?
Oh my God. It's so it's the most vulnerable
place, the most vulnerable you'll ever be.
I think is like opening up on that level to a complete
(04:42):
stranger, really. And like, I see a therapist and
there have been times where I'vejust, like, not been able to
fully, fully let go because like, I'm in back.
I'm embarrassed by what I'm dealing with because like, I
have a logical brain. This is what I always talk to.
I have a logical brain who knowswhat my because it's about
anxiety. My logical brain knows that it's
(05:04):
so dumb and so like this part ofmy brain is judging me as I'm
talking to my therapist and thenit's that like anxiety brain
that's being really unreasonableand that's what I'm trying to
deal with, but logical brains being like, you're an idiot.
Say more about that. You're an idiot because.
Because it's embarrassing that you're anxious about it.
(05:25):
Because it shouldn't matter. Yes, OK, Yeah.
Because that's what I mean, at least for my anxiety and maybe
for some other people. Like, they're not rational
thoughts sometimes. Like, it's totally irrational
what you're anxious about or sadabout or whatever you're dealing
with. But there's.
And so, like, I have this like, very like, grounded part of
(05:46):
myself that knows that and absolutely judges myself for
feeling that way. Yeah, the internal narrative
which says you should or shouldn't be a certain.
Way. This is a personal question and
I like to probe. And usually in these
conversations I expect that as to adults, you'll tell me where
your boundary is. And I want this to feel like a
(06:10):
cathartic experience that's psychologically safe, not the
other way. So it's time to cry.
Great, Let's do it. Can you tell me something that
you're embarrassed about, an anxious thought that you might
not have being as honest about in the past?
Like, what are some of those things that you're actually
judging? What's an example?
(06:32):
It's actually quite relatable towhat I do, and it's something
that I had to deal with earlier this year because I've only been
making content for a year and a half really.
So it's very new to me and I grew really fast, really fast,
and it was so overwhelming and Iwas anxious about this is so
specific and so funny. And I remember talking to my
(06:56):
therapist, thought about it, andI was just like, this is so dumb
that I'm anxious about this, butI used to be anxious that my
videos were too loud and that somebody would wear headphones
and play a video and hurt their ears.
Is so conscientious of. You.
It's like, I was like I would spend hours on audio levels,
(07:20):
which left nobody, nobody does that.
Most people set up their iPhone and just like, shoot a video.
Yeah, I don't even use it. They don't even use an external
microphone. I do because I want to make sure
that it sounds right. You have this beautiful inner
ear fairy inside you that's so concerned for people.
Everyone's. Yeah.
(07:40):
And where do you think that comes from?
That's interesting because that to me is that there's a deeply
compassionate part of you that doesn't want to be annoying or
irritate anyone. Absolutely.
I'm a I'm a a terrible people pleaser and I want to be liked
by everybody and I always want to control how people see me,
(08:02):
view me. And I cannot, I cannot,
especially on the, on the platform I'm on, being seen by
millions of people. I cannot control how people see
me. And so I'm like, what can I
control? Yeah.
And I'm like, I can try. I can control what the video is
about. I can control what it looks
like, what I look like and how it sounds.
But the reason that that got triggered and me very early on
(08:24):
is I had a comment. It was from one comment, and it
was probably because she'd open the app and it was up for
volume. Sure.
And I was like, Oh no, I have tothink about this.
And then that burrowed into my brain for so long and then only
recently have I really been like, that is so silly.
I mean, it's not because nothing, anything that you're
(08:46):
anxious about isn't silly. You know, it comes from a real
place. And for me, it was just about
wanting to make sure that whatever people were what
viewing of me, like whatever I could control, they can't judge
me on. Do you know what?
It doesn't make sense. Yeah, it does.
Really silly. It makes a lot of sense.
You don't want to give people a reason not to like you.
Yes. And that's where, and it's been
(09:07):
really difficult because being on social media is you have to
have a really thick skin becausenot everyone's going to like
you. And I've had to like, have that
as an affirmation for myself daily.
And this is what I've worked with with my therapist.
It's like not everyone's gonna like you.
You don't like everyone in the world.
So how as in, like, there are people in your life that you've
(09:28):
come across that maybe you don'tlike.
Yeah. So how can you expect everyone
to like you? Yeah.
Can you tell me about a time further into our cry factor that
you didn't feel like maybe as a child?
What are some early memories where you're like, I wish these
people liked? Me.
(09:48):
I think this is also where it comes from as well.
All of that is like, there's definitely like an inner Maddie
who just wants to be accepted. And I think, like it comes a lot
from my upbringing as well. I'm I love my family, and I
don't think that they did anything consciously to make me
(10:08):
feel unloved. But I am a middle child and I
have a younger sister who's 11 months younger than me.
And so I was, you know, two or three months old when my mom
fell pregnant again. And I and I hear stories.
I hear stories from when I was very, very young, always trying
to get their attention. And I was a bit mean to my
(10:28):
sister because, you know, she's a sibling.
Yeah, she's taking the attention.
Yes. And so, like I was, I was awful
to her and even like growing up as a kid, I wouldn't let her
play with me and my friends, even though we were basically
the same age, You know, I was 11and then she turned 11 and for a
month were the same age. And she's like, I'm eleven now,
Can I come play with you and your friends?
And I'm like, well, no, you haveto be 11 and 11 months, so you
(10:51):
can't. Drift rules.
So it's quite mean to my sister growing up, and I like me and my
sister is so close now. But then there was this
narrative that I was nasty, thatI was a mean person.
Someone else's narrative or yournarrative?
Well, I've been, you know, your parents telling me that, You
know, my parents saying, like, don't be mean to your sister.
Yep. And so then there was this,
(11:14):
yeah, this concept or like, I was always being told off for
being mean. And that word nasty is actually
a word that was used a lot, which is it's a trigger word for
me now. Sure.
But nobody got nasty. And so but like, I was, I was
mean to her because she was a sibling.
And so then there was like this,you know, going into my teenage
years, there was always this kind of, like thing said about
(11:34):
me that I was mean. And then now I've really been
trying to not be that. And I'm like, I cannot, I cannot
have anyone believe that I'm a mean person.
And that's where this whole, like, um, narrative of not
narrative, but like this anxietythat I've got that I I'm trying
to control how people to see me.And it's hard in comedy because
(11:58):
I'm making fun of someone. Comedy is always at the expense
of someone. You're making fun of a thing, a
situation yourself, someone else, someone's going to get
offended, you know, if they don't have a thick skin.
Like often I do dating skits where I'm making fun of men.
I've got butt hurt men in my DM's telling me I'm a bitch.
You know what I mean? So it's just like it's it's just
(12:19):
weird balance that are like, I've landed in this comedy world
because it kind of happened by accident.
I didn't try to become a comedy creator.
I was just bored and locked downand a skit went off and I was
like, maybe I'm good at this. And then it kept going and now
I'm like, oh, I'm a covenant creator.
But it's yeah, so like, there's this weird balance that I'm
trying to may or I'm trying to make a balance between like this
(12:41):
intrinsic, like little girl Maddie who's just trying to
prove that she's not a mean person yet somehow make fun of
people to try and like, do my job.
It's really? Yeah.
It's a tightrope to. Walk it is.
And so earlier this year, like, I was having all of these
massive successes, but I was really struggling because I was
like, people don't like me. Hmm, What am I?
(13:02):
How do I? And I, I really tried to also
control, like, how I made a skit.
And I was, like, really trying to, even the way I played my
characters. I'm like, not trying to be too
judgmental to who I'm making funof.
Like, it's all a little bit dorky and a little bit awkward.
Do you know what I mean? So like, you can kind of see
like, oh, she's just being cute about.
It you can wiggle out of it a bit.
Yeah, because I'm still, I'm still trying to make people
(13:24):
believe that I'm not a mean person.
Can we? I like the exercise of like,
let's finish this sentence. So um, I don't want to be a mean
person because if I'm nasty, that will result in.
People like be feeling unloved. Unloved.
(13:46):
Yeah. So it's really, this whole thing
is actually pretty high stakes. Because I would imagine one of,
if not your core need is to feelloved.
Like most of us, Yeah. And you've essentially doubled
down on a career where you're putting that core need some
audit threat and you're rolling the dice on it.
And every day you're trying to thread the needle on expressing
(14:11):
yourself, being an actor, a comedian.
Uh, whilst improving the the love that you have and
mitigating the potential downside.
It's. Wild.
That's therapy, man. So, you know, you said that it
that it was embarrassing or small, but actually that sounds
pretty reasonable when you take that lens on it, Wouldn't you
(14:32):
agree? Absolutely.
It's far more than just I'm worried that the music's too
loud. It's like, OK, well let's roll
that onion back a few layers andsee what that actually is trying
to point to. What that's trying to point to
is how do I be successful in my career at the littlest expense
to others possible. And that's a worthwhile thing to
investigate in therapy in my opinion.
(14:56):
What I'm really curious about asa follow on is you know you're
someone who does put yourself out there and it requires a shit
tonne of confidence. Are you a confident person?
Yes. Where did that come from?
Well, I've performed my whole life and I think that that has.
(15:17):
That's just an innately part of my personality.
I'm always being outgoing. I think also like being the
middle child and always vying for everyone's attention comes
from it as well. But I've I've danced since I was
four and then been in drama forever and I just, I love
performing and I think that's where my confidence has really
(15:39):
come from. Exposure.
Yeah. Exposure to it where it could go
bad, but you did it anyway. Yeah, and like, even with my
online, my time online, when I first started, I wasn't
performing to millions of people.
It was tiny. And it's really, really
gradually grown to be in front of millions, which is wild.
(16:00):
But like, I've slowly gotten used to it being seen by that
many people. The first time I went viral when
I was like really, really small creator, that was so
overwhelming because again, it was like, is everyone gonna like
me? And like, it was really, it was
really great, really great feedback because it was I was
making fun of my parents and everyone can relate to that.
(16:20):
So it wasn't really, I wasn't the the person I was making fun
of really is just my mom and dad.
And they loved it. Yeah.
And so like it was this great validation in that very first
video, but then you don't go viral for a while and so then
you're chasing it. So it's a little bit different.
And so, like, that's been a weird balance to to kind of um
(16:42):
or like just something to come to terms with like you're not
always going to get it out of. Yeah.
And you can't, you can't expect it to and you can't base your
value on views and likes. And I did for awhile.
Do you still? Be honest sometimes.
Yeah. But I'm I'm.
I'm not I'm not as bad as I was like definitely like following
fluctuate. And I grew really crazy fast in
(17:04):
the beginning and I haven't. I haven't been able to match
that. Like that would be impossible to
try and grow at that trajectory forever.
It's not sustainable and it would drive me wild like crazy
if I kept trying to drive grow that way.
But I definitely do. When I'm making videos, I'm
always just like, how can I makethis like the most valuable so
(17:27):
that I will get good engagement?It's a business model rat, but
I'm really trying. I really try not to like base my
own personal value in views and likes.
I think a lot of people strugglewith value, self worth.
Do you think confidence is innate, like you're you're born
(17:50):
a more confident person or that it's social conditioning?
So I think social conditioning, yeah.
In your experience as someone who has built confidence, what
do you think has been other thanperforming in front of crowds?
What do you think is the single best thing that has helped you
build a thicker skin? You said it before exposure to
(18:13):
it. Yeah, just doing it over and
over and over again. Yeah.
Because I see a lot of people who they, maybe they've been
told in their life before that they're not allowed to be
themselves. Yeah.
And they shrink. Yeah.
And you tell someone, just don'tshrink, do what you want to do,
say what you want to say, be whoyou want to be.
And they're like, OK, And then they don't do it.
(18:34):
Yeah. And so I think, you know, a lot
of people need practical first steps or better yet, a different
belief system. And what do you, what have you
seen with people that lack confidence some of their belief
systems are? I think that if they've been
told from a young age that they have to be small, it's going to
(18:55):
be really, really hard for them to not try and be small.
Um. And so that's, that would be
really difficult to to fall out of that habit because sometimes
they might be doing stuff that they're not even conscious of to
make themselves feel. You know to be small, standing
in a corner in a in a crowded room, trying not to take up
space. And as a woman I think that this
(19:16):
happens a lot. I am, this is quite funny but a
personal story. Recently I got told to calm down
that I was being too loud recently by a person no longer
speaking to. Especially because it's the
noise trigger as. Well, yeah.
And I was like. You're like, don't shake that.
Yeah. And it was just like it was
(19:37):
quite interesting that the reaction that it had within me,
Sure, because it obviously has, is something that's happened to
me. Be smaller.
Be smaller, Yeah. Yeah.
And so then I like, I guess my reaction to it, and it has been
since I was a kid, even to my parents, to be like, well, fuck
you, I'm going to be louder. So I guess, like, it's my
response to it is different. Whereas other people I would
(19:59):
sense. But definitely someone tells
them to be smaller. I'm going to be smaller, I
haven't answered the question. Well, I think you've you've
better answered it, which is if we, if we are told a certain
narrative and we're young, it's really hard to drop when we're
older. Yeah.
And the only way to do that is to have the confidence to
(20:22):
bucket. But how do you, it's kind of
chicken and egg. How do you get the confidence to
bucket? You just gotta do.
It I think it's seeing people around you role model what it
means to go from small to growth.
And I don't know, at least for me, it's when there's a
shortcoming or set a more compassionate way, a limiting
(20:44):
belief within me. What I usually do is look
outwards and say, where can I find a version of this that I
can relate to? And they've done it because my
mindset is, for better or for worse could be delusion.
If one human being can do something, I can fucking do it
or get darn close. Yeah, and I know that, like,
(21:05):
heart on my sleeve started because I saw one guy wearing
his heart on his sleeve after a whole lifetime of hiding.
And I'm like, I can fucking do that.
And for for a lot of people, it is that if you see it work, you
can. And then when that thought says
no, but I can't because say fuckyou yeah to yourself and your
(21:28):
brain and that party. You.
Yeah, bring it out fully. All the other silly side to that
one can be quiet logical brain be loud.
Totally. And I think, like, again, this
is a privileged comment because I had maybe the childhood from
my mom especially that has enabled thoughts like this to
(21:49):
come. But for me, I'm like, I'm gonna
fucking die one day. Yeah, I'm gonna turn into dust.
And we're already just evolved fishes and monkeys.
Yeah, and the world's gonna spoon for another trillion years
and then some. Hmm.
So in moments that I want to shrink and I'm scared, I go who
the fuck cares? Yeah, it's this spotlight
(22:10):
effect. You as well, like nobody's
watching you as closely as you think they are single person.
And this is the whole thing withme and my anxieties as well.
Like nobody's looking at my numbers.
Nobody cares, didn't really cares.
And so sometimes I've really hadto have that brain as well, like
the spotlights not on you. So like nobody, if you, if you
speak up and do what you're afraid of, you are the one who's
(22:33):
focusing on on the how uncomfortable you are.
But most of the time, people, the other people, they're mostly
focusing on themselves anyway. Hmm.
So yeah, I just think, yeah, sayfuck it.
Do it. This is a usually something that
I'll ask at the end, but I feel like it's a good time to ask
now. What's the story that you used
to tell yourself that you no longer tell yourself?
(22:57):
That yeah, I think, I mean, we've kind of touched on it, but
there is something that I say tomyself every day because I have
like a list of affirmations thathelps me and one of them is that
I am going to remember I must read it off piece of paper.
So it's a terrible memory. It's like I'm strong, I'm
powerful and no one can take that away from me.
(23:18):
So like my power and my loudnessand my boldness is a strength.
And I'm just trying to. I'm trying to believe that it's
a strength. And not because obviously my
whole life trying not to. I'm trying to prove that I'm not
a mean person. But I think that like me being
bold and loud is is a powerful strength that I have and no one
can remove that. Like I have given myself that
(23:41):
title, that it's a strength. Nobody can make me believe
otherwise and if they believe it, they believe it.
But it's it's what I believe that's most important.
And in moments where like that guy did the other way, and in
moments where a TikTok troll will say whatever they say, hmm.
And then the old brain and narrative starts to chomp.
(24:02):
How do you stop that? I mean, she's there.
She's definitely there. But yeah, it stays.
It's reminding myself those words.
But also most of the time when I'm having like an anxious time,
I sleep on it. I allow myself to feel that way
for a day. And I'm like, I try not cause
like I'm going to think about itno matter what.
Like I'm gonna focus on it and sometimes I can't stop it and I
(24:26):
will let myself do it for a day.I'm like, you're allowed to feel
this way today, but we're going to go to bed and tomorrow we're
going to wake up different. What's your favourite emotion to
feel? No, I love all of them.
Some are harder than others. Probably joy.
(24:47):
When can you think about a memory where you felt most
joyous? Most recently I reunited with my
best friend in Japan. I haven't seen her in a while.
She lives in London and that wasjust pure joy.
Just we just held each other. So, so great Love, yeah, love.
(25:07):
The core need, yeah. And my dog as well.
He brings me so much joy. I got him this year.
He's changed my life. He's a good.
Boy, oh, he's so good. It's well, what for.
For me, what I needed this year,especially with this whole cycle
I was going through, because I work alone and I live alone and
so it's hard to get out of that space.
But he gave me a routine. Yeah, go for a walk in the
(25:29):
morning, we go for a walk at night.
He bookends my day and he allowsme to switch off because
literally forces me to. He's like mum, I'm ready now.
Took the laptop. Away out to ship myself.
Yeah, let's go. Unless you want to clean this
up. Yeah, so like, even that
unconditional love from a pet has been really helpful.
But yeah, Joy most recently was with my friend Hannah.
(25:50):
That was just, yeah, pure joy. And we speak every day on the
phone. And so, like, she is really
helpful. Like having a person in my life
that is so supportive, like she's my cheerleader no matter
what happens. And sometimes we'll have a cry
together. But it's just so it's the love.
It's so pure. Love it.
Speaking of love, you do a lot of content about dating.
(26:13):
Yes, I do. And it's so fucking funny.
I would encourage everyone to jump on and search Maddie McRae,
because that shit will give you some good lols and escape, but
obviously that comes from somewhere.
Oh yeah, we were just talking off there around how there was
the guy who got up like halfway through doing the hunky Dory and
(26:35):
block of cheese. It's like a real life
ratatouille, yeah. He got lightheaded.
It's fine, I guess. It's fine.
What? What draws you to that space?
Because it's my life. That's my life right now.
So like the content I make is it's all of the inspiration
comes from my life experience. I'm sure that if I started
dating someone, my content wouldshift into more like
(26:57):
relationship scenarios, But right now it's all about being
single because I mean, I'm to gotalk about relationships.
I'm mostly a monogamous relationship, girly, and from
the age of 15 to the age of 27, I was in long term
relationships. And the last three years I've
been single. And so, like, since being
online, I've been in this kind of like dating world.
(27:20):
And it's quite interesting because I feel like online
dating has really shifted since COVID.
Hmm. It's hilarious.
And there's so much content. It's dire and it's sad.
Swamp. It's a swamp, not a dating pool.
It's a dating swamp. And we're all just kind of just.
Finding out. Tricks.
You're just like breathing through your lips, just coming
above the water. It's just it's so but it's and
(27:42):
it's terrible. But I'm able to make fun of it
and make fun of myself, and obviously make other people feel
a little less alone in this awful dating swamp by making fun
of it. So make little skits about it,
and it's so much fun. They do so well because they're
so relatable. So relatable.
And like, in some ways, it's fucking sad that it's relatable
(28:04):
because it means. That so sad.
Everyone's out here just having the worst time on dates, Yeah,
but at least you get some good stories.
Out of it really do. And you How do you identify from
any sexuality perspective if you're open to sharing?
I'm bisexual. Bisexual.
And how does that inform your worldview?
(28:27):
I guess Like, is it a big part of who you are?
Is it shape the way you think about yourself and life?
Yes, but yes and no. I don't often talk about being
by online, and I don't often do skits with girls.
Like, they'll be in there sometimes with dating.
But I kind of really conform to the heteronormative worldview
(28:51):
because I didn't want it to be my key identifier, if that makes
sense, if you want to have to say Maddie McCray, bisexual
comedy creator. Because I find that, like, and I
love that there are people who do champion that.
But I was like, I just want to make a skit rat.
Sexuality is not a part of it, even though I do talk about sex
a lot. I mean, the main joke I make
(29:12):
about sex is it's literally the same joke I tell, just in
different ways, which is just a man not being able to find the
clitoris. Just, yeah, you know, sometimes
they do it with an elevator, youknow, he's going to the wrong
floor. Or other times she's at a party
and she's being ignored. And other times I've done it
with like a paper flower on the floor, like it's I'm making the
same joke, the sex content. Um, but in terms of like it
(29:36):
informing who I am, yes, but privately.
Going back to our original comments around boundaries and
psychological safety, please just let me know if I'm viewing
anywhere. This is Fuck you, you fuck you
bitch. Fuck yeah.
How dare you? Dare you.
(29:58):
Be quiet. I find the the psychology of
this fascinating because I I hada one of my ex partners, Alana.
She's so fucking awesome and after dating me she's now
married to a woman. Yeah.
And I was always curious for her.
And maybe you can speak to your experience is first and
(30:24):
foremost, were you first attracted to males or females,
if you know? And second of all, do you think
the secondary attraction came from an emotional or physical
expansion? Yeah, I I think consciously I
was attracted to men first, but I do have some like early
(30:47):
memories now that I've come out and become more aware of my
sexuality. That would definitely with
girls, but I didn't realise whatit was at the time.
So I feel like my first kind of like almost sexual encounter,
which really wasn't, but it's, you know, just touching.
But it was just like we were playing house, but it was like
(31:07):
we were playing a game. It wasn't like, I'm with you
because you're a girl. But now I think back and I'm
like, ohhhhhh, yeah, it was right there all alone.
Yeah. So I was definitely consciously
attracted to men first and then first time I was attracted to a
girl. Like, in real life, Like, I
(31:28):
think I've always found it attractive and like, in terms
of, like, what I was sexually attracted to, I think I've
always just, like, I just assumed everyone was attracted
to both. So I was just like, it's not
nothing, I'm never going to dateanother girl, but like,
everyone's attracted to women and men.
That was just kind of like my thought process when I became
sexually active, you know? But when I was actually
(31:49):
attracted to a woman and I wanted to, like, date her, that
was a physical reaction. A physical.
What was the word you used? Response.
Yeah, it was physical or drugs. Yeah, it was like we were
playing spin the bottle literally like a university
party. And we started kissing.
And then the game ended. Game ended.
(32:10):
And like, let's still kiss. Yeah, well, no, as in, like,
everyone left because we didn't stop.
I was like, oh, we better leave.Bye.
Sorry are we once again? Also shut out to spin the.
Bottle love Spin the bottle. Has straight up cut through so
many like awkward tensions and has enabled everyone's deepest
fantasies come true with any excuse.
(32:32):
Yeah, like. Yeah, but that was like a
physical response. Obviously you were kissing.
And then I was like, I really like this.
Yeah. And then I ended up dating her
for four years. She was my last partner.
Nice. Yeah.
Not looking good. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it just again, shout out to spin the bottle.
That needed to happen twice. It was good and what is?
(32:55):
It's awkward. I didn't know how to make the
first move oht fully, so we're like, well, the bottle said So
we have to make. Out.
It's literal. Magic in my mouth.
You're right now. I think Twister has a similar
effect. Yeah, yeah, just that.
Like it's got the. We're on top of each other.
Sorry, I'm straddling you and. Now we're married.
Yeah, sorry, but whoops. Twister.
(33:18):
What's the difference from an emotional standpoint, do you
think, with regard to, like yourattachment needs and feeling
loved, You find that differs a lot between men and women and
your security? It's hard.
That's a hard question for me toanswer because I've only been
with one woman and I think that her attachment style or out like
our relationship is not reflective of her being a woman.
(33:42):
I think it was just her and who she was.
So that's hard for me to comparebecause she had quite an anxious
attachment style and I don't think that that's say I'm not, I
don't want to say that all womenare like that.
No, cause I don't have an anxious attachment style.
What attachment style? Avoidant.
Yeah. I'm like, see you later.
Yeah. Things get hard.
(34:02):
I'm outta here. Yeah.
Which I'm dealing with. Yeah, but it's a style.
But yeah, so she had a Our relationship didn't end well.
Like it was quite a. Conflict heavy?
Yeah, it was. And do you know what?
And it's quite funny that we're doing a a podcast about mental
health because it had to do withmental health.
(34:23):
A lot of we had a lot of issues with mental health and that's
why the relationship eventually fell apart and we went our
separate ways. And she's doing much better now
and I'm doing much better now. I just think that like us two
together, we're not, we weren't compatible and we kind of
enabled our issues and it was just us swamp swampy.
(34:47):
It was so swampy, but it was also in the middle of COVID.
Yeah, so. There was a lot going on.
So it's also your first female relationship, so you're
adjusting to that. Absolutely And like you know
certain expectations from familythinking that I was gonna follow
the heteronormative yeah you know nuclear family.
So there was, there was a lot inthat relationship and it was a
(35:08):
lot of firsts there. And so it's hard for me to kind
of compare my relationship with men versus women.
Fair. Yeah, totally fair.
Yeah, it's funny. I been doing a lot of thinking
recently on the concept of do you need to heal on your own
first before getting into relationship or do you heal with
(35:30):
a partner? And I'm a big believer in saying
and more than awe as much as possible, and because I think
thinking in black and white often puts us into situations
that are unnatural because of the brain's desire for certainty
more than the brain's desire fortruth.
And I think you need to do a certain baseline level of work
(35:50):
before you enter into partnership, because otherwise
you just spew out Everything Everywhere and you use your
partner's love and affection andbutterflies as a way to escape
from the thing that you should confront.
But I also don't believe you need to be perfect to come into
relationship. And a lot of wounding can be
healed through the right type ofattachment in romance and pause.
(36:13):
Would you agree with that? Yes.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that like from my
own experience, especially goinginto relationships at such a
young age, um, and being single now, there's been so much more
discovery of who I am on my own.And when I first became single,
(36:34):
I really struggled. Like, it was really, really hard
to not have another person. But I've learned so much more
about myself through that process.
But I've always really loved those quote by somebody and I
don't know what it is. I don't know, maybe it was even
a TikTok, but it was about beinga person or being single.
It's about discovering a new city or like moving into a new
(36:55):
city and like learning the back streets and like understanding
all of the secret pathways and kind of like drawing a map.
You know you're you're discovering it on your own.
And when you meet someone, they're not completing your map,
you're showing them around your map.
Yep, fully. Agree.
And so, like, even if it's not fully complete, like what you
(37:16):
were saying before, like even you haven't, you can discover
stuff together because that's what happens.
You grow together as a person, and their interests become your
interests and tastes. Their tastes become your tastes.
And like, of course that's goingto happen.
But you really have to have a good foundation of who you are
before you welcome someone into it.
And that was hard for me becauseI was a chameleon.
I became who I dated for so long.
(37:39):
Like their mannerisms, their like even the way they spoke.
I develop like I it's that became me.
It was like I've had three majorrelationships in my life and I
was three different people in all three of them.
So this, like last three years has just been like, well, who
the fuck am I? I don't.
Know. Did you find an answer to that
question? Yeah, I.
(38:00):
Think so. Either way, if you dated someone
else, do you think you would chameleon into them?
No, I I don't know. I don't know cause I haven't
since being single, right. I hope not.
I think that like, I've really gotten good at setting good
boundaries, especially because the last relationship was like
probably the most chameleon. Like we were one person.
(38:21):
It was a weird pretzel, dementedpretzel.
We call this enmeshment. Enmeshment.
Yeah. And like, you know, you have
your circles of influence. This is what my therapist told
me. And she was in there.
You know, you're meant to just, it's meant to be you.
Just that in that inner circle. And then you've got your voices,
people, and like, shoots in my circle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was it was, you know, that should just
(38:43):
be you. Yeah.
So, like, I've had to really work at boundaries because I was
like, I can never be in a situation like that again.
We can't. Because otherwise you lose trust
in. Yourself, yeah.
And you forget what it's like toregulate on your own.
And then the moment any type of dysregulation or distress comes
up, you're like, where is my person as opposed to where am I?
(39:06):
Yeah. And I think we've normalised
maybe through Hollywood. Yeah, that it's it's romantic
and idealised to become whole through someone.
Yes, if psychologists had any right to review movies before
they were published, they would be like.
No. No, no, no.
No. No, no, no.
Why are we telling everyone thatthis is, like, aspirational?
(39:27):
Yeah, if someone's making you whole, you will inevitably fall
apart. But we grow up with that.
Disney taught us that. Yeah, you know, that's that's
what we grow up with. Like this discourse that you
have to have someone in order tolive happily ever after.
You cannot be alone. And then what happens if like
you, if you fight or you break up or you're in a situation that
(39:49):
requires your own values to orientate your way through it as
opposed to theirs? You spiral.
Yeah, and I'm not saying don't connect with others.
My whole fucking livelihood is built on teaching people to
connect. I'm saying that having an
independent sense of self that you can trust and regulate on
your own and also Co regulate with others, sometimes through
(40:13):
connection and feeling reassuredand comforted, both are needed.
But if you lean too far either way, you're fucked.
Yeah, yeah. My biggest, biggest revelation
that's happened is in related tothat, in this last like three
years of being single is that when something really great or
something really terrible happens to me, I used to always
(40:34):
immediately call my partner to get their advice, their opinion,
have a rant, and I don't have that.
I mean, I've got my sisters and my close friends and my dog and
I've got my dog. He has a lot.
Gotta be key controls like shut up.
You come home, he's wearing likeglasses and lying back on his.
Chair and. He's like, hit me, bitch.
(40:55):
Yeah, I'm ready. Take me for a walk first.
Yeah, so like then I've got you.I've had I don't have that
person And it's been funny because I had a conversation
with another content creator recently about this is it's been
difficult to not immediately jump on your Instagram story to
then get your Instagram followers responses because
(41:17):
that's also like kind of, I havethis relationship with my my
online community that that is filling a certain void that I
don't have personally, right. And so when something like
really crazy happens to me like this morning something fucked
happened with my real estate so angry.
And I guess I have that like instant response that I'm like I
(41:38):
have to call someone to tell them.
And I also get like a little pang of sadness because I'm
like, well, I wish I had a person, but it's kind of great
that I don't because I get to figure out how I respond to
first before I hear someone else's opinion.
Yeah, I think what it does matter is it forces you to go
toward the pain. And you know, we're speaking
earlier around that I believe isthe most helpful thing I've ever
(42:00):
done in my life is learn how to sit with pain.
Because when you do your, your nervous system does a bicep
curl. So it's basically three years of
working out and not running awayfrom that feeling by giving it
to someone else, but actually just resting in it and realising
holy fuck, I can do this. So when a partner comes into
your life, they're like, I don'tneed you, I want you though.
(42:22):
Yeah, and that's a really abundant place to be.
Hmm. Yeah.
And it's been, it's been kind ofamazing that this massive career
explosion that I've had, I've only had since being on my own.
And so I'm just like, I did thatmyself on the back.
It's great. And now I'm like, I feel like
I'm open to share. I'm open to sharing that with
(42:44):
someone. But I don't feel like I need
them there to continue on this journey that I'm on.
Just like I got this, you can come with me, you know, But I
got it. Yeah, you can add but I don't.
But you don't need to multiply until I'm enough.
So much goodness. Yeah, we got some good stuff.
Yeah, it's been rich. It's been rich.
(43:05):
Yes, just a chocolate pudding. It's really rich pudding.
Like, yeah, like mud cake. Speaking of might, actually,
that's where I want to go Last before we bring this home is,
yeah, what a when? When you're in the mud, can you
(43:26):
think about an example or a story of when someone has
supported you through a hard moment or hard chapter?
What are some of the things thatthey did?
What did I say and do that? You're like shit.
That was super helpful. Yeah, I do have that.
This, this last relationship that I just came out of was
(43:47):
really hard to leave. And I had a really close friend
helped me through that. Not by saying anything, she just
was there every day. Just call me, text me.
It was just like presents to be like, I'm here with you.
She couldn't spoon feed me the answers because she knew that it
was something that I had to do. But she was there every single
(44:10):
day and it was just knowing thatI had a person to.
She held me accountable really, because the easier option was to
not end it. The easier option was to stay
because it's hard ending a relationship that's so hard.
She she held me accountable justby like texting me everyday.
(44:31):
I think there's something to be said for I I don't know how to
say this other than this word thereness.
Like someone. Presentness.
Yeah. Presence.
It really gives you something tohold on to when you feel like
there's nothing to hold on to. Yeah, and sometimes we feel
negligent that just by showing up we're not doing enough.
(44:53):
But that's often what the personneeds.
Because sometimes, like, people go through awful stuff, right?
And you're just like, what do I even say?
Sometimes you don't have to, just have to be there.
Maddie, what's the question thatI didn't ask you, but you wish I
did? Why aren't you crying?
(45:15):
This is really vulnerable. Where are the 2?
Where are the tears? Which is actually quite funny
because it's a big sign to me that I am unable to be
vulnerable and I make jokes about everything.
I'm literally Chandler being I just.
I make a joke. Make up the jokes.
I make the jokes. Somebody like says something
vulnerable and I'm like, how canI make this funny?
Because I don't wanna cry. Do you hide behind comedy?
(45:36):
Absolutely. Like even when I'm like really
nervous and I'm meeting new people and like how can I be
self deprecating? How can I make fun of myself to
make myself? Like, if I make fun of myself
first, then I won't be embarrassed somehow.
I'll do it first. I'll be the one to point out the
flaws and, you know, diffuse this tension with laughter.
Absolutely. That didn't answer your
question, but it was a fun tidbit.
(45:59):
It was a It was a fun little U turn.
Yeah. I wanna come back to it.
Oht no. Hence the U turn.
What's the question you wish I'dask you, but I?
Didn't. I don't know.
I'm not sure. Yeah, because we did.
We went deeper. Liked it?
It? Was good.
Yeah, we covered a lot. Yeah.
Maybe that's the question I'd like to ask.
How do you feel now after havingthat conversation?
(46:22):
Cause I'm arguably, well, not anymore.
Now we're friends. Yeah.
But an hour ago I was a stranger.
How do you, how have you felt being quite real for the last, I
don't know how long we've been going, Maybe hour?
I look, I think we touched on itin the beginning.
Like, I find it kind of easy to be vulnerable with someone who I
don't know. I obviously didn't go that deep
(46:44):
into my deep fears. Like, I think about younger
Maddie and her need to be liked and I will weep thinking about
her. Do you know what I mean?
Like, there is definitely, like a lot of pain there.
But I feel good. I feel like what I've
experienced is probably what a lot of other people experience
(47:06):
in what I and I'm also very conscious that we have a
microphone right here and we're talking to people.
People are listening. So I want to make sure that
they're gaining value. But I feel good about how deep
we went. We didn't cross any boundaries.
Good. I feel good about it.
Thank you so much for having a yarn and looking forward to
staying connected and cheering you on.
(47:27):
Cheerleaders. There will be many people who
wanna follow you, so can you tell them where to find?
You. My name is Maddie McRae.
My handles. Maddie spoke with a Y
underscore. MACRAE throw in another
underscore at the end because somebody else took my handle.
Somebody else uses it. Fuck you, Maddie.
McCray. Who knows.
No one underscores. She's got my hand all I wanted
(47:48):
to do. Both of us.
But if you just look up Maddie McRae, you'll find me.
I'm on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.
Yeah, you'll know because of thegazillion followers and the darn
good content. Just a few, yeah.
You're a legend. Thanks so much.
Don't have a natural tendency todissipate unless they get
(48:09):
reinforced. And so if there's more thoughts,
more stories, more intentions come along.
So the act of how am I leaving it alone Is an act of not act.
Adding more stories, adding fuelto it.
So it might not go away in 2 minutes, but it begins to relax
with dissipate. And so, rather than being the
person who has to fix it, would become the person who makes
(48:29):
space for the heart, the mind torelax and settle away itself.
Alright, we're on it. I wonder what you mean when you
use the word I use the word Idi,kicking break.
We have aversion to ourselves and to what's happening inside
(00:21):
us, inside of us. I've been very interested in
this problem for a long, long time.
Something settles today's guest is Maddie Mccrae, an Australian
content creator and very, very popular social media maker who
(00:45):
has exploded onto the scene on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
She is fucking hilarious. I was watching a few of her
videos in preparation for the interview and I was just killing
myself. She she talks about everything
from sex and dating to body image and memes and jokes with
parents. It truly is a unique and witty
(01:07):
and highly relatable style. She's got over 3 million fans
and she also is the Co host of the podcast.
Sometimes funny, always awkward.I hope you enjoy our discussion,
where of course in my field we get personal.
Ask her about her lived experience, her mental health
journey and how she's kind of processed and dealt with some of
(01:29):
her biggest fears that could have potentially held her back a
lot, moving into a public domainspace as she has.
But she talks about how she's worked with them and through
them to overcome and reach the other side where she is today,
still managing and needing to dothe daily work like we all are,
but not letting it hold her back.
(01:50):
So I'm stoked to be able to bring you this discussion with
Miss Mattie McRae. Maddie McRae.
Hey. It's so good to have you.
Here thank. You are.
Are you comfortable? Yeah, this couch is beautiful.
(02:12):
So comfortable. So we're trying this couch
thing. More of a home setup than the
studio, but I wanna make sure that like the the the guest
feels like they can settle in. Do you feel settled?
In Yeah, I could cry, You could cry.
Is that what's happening? That's what I was going.
For yeah, we're gonna. Cry.
(02:33):
I was going for high cry. For yeah, yeah, yeah, I could
cry. OK, cool that.
So, Speaking of crying, we usually like to start these
chats by asking what's a opinionthat you hold about mental
health that is controversial butyou wholeheartedly believe.
God, what a big question. Something about mental health
(02:55):
that I believe that's maybe controversial.
I don't think it is controversial.
I think we talk about it enough.I think we talk about it enough.
So what don't we do enough of? In society, I'm I'm trying to
(03:19):
think about my circle in generalis that I don't think I OK, let
me retract that statement. My circle, my close circle, my
family circle. I don't think we talk about it
enough. But people who are not as close
to me, I'm so much more open to talk to them about it.
Does that make sense? The people closest to me I find
(03:41):
hardest to talk about it. That's an interesting point and
I think many people can relate to that, which is it's almost
easier to make a social media thing like mental health is
really important. We all struggle.
And it's on a broad sense. Yeah.
Not quite in detail and so like in terms of being that really
(04:01):
vulnerable person and and givingthe most detailed, having the
most detailed chats with someone, I don't know where to
go. So it's either on a broad sense
to everyone or like I'm not ableto be detailed enough unless
it's with a professional person.Do you think that speaking to a
(04:21):
professional instead of speakingto a wider audience is harder
because you're forced to contemplate your own bullshit?
Oh my God. It's so it's the most vulnerable
place, the most vulnerable you'll ever be.
I think is like opening up on that level to a complete
(04:42):
stranger, really. And like, I see a therapist and
there have been times where I'vejust, like, not been able to
fully, fully let go because like, I'm in back.
I'm embarrassed by what I'm dealing with because like, I
have a logical brain. This is what I always talk to.
I have a logical brain who knowswhat my because it's about
anxiety. My logical brain knows that it's
(05:04):
so dumb and so like this part ofmy brain is judging me as I'm
talking to my therapist and thenit's that like anxiety brain
that's being really unreasonableand that's what I'm trying to
deal with, but logical brains being like, you're an idiot.
Say more about that. You're an idiot because.
Because it's embarrassing that you're anxious about it.
(05:25):
Because it shouldn't matter. Yes, OK, Yeah.
Because that's what I mean, at least for my anxiety and maybe
for some other people. Like, they're not rational
thoughts sometimes. Like, it's totally irrational
what you're anxious about or sadabout or whatever you're dealing
with. But there's.
And so, like, I have this like, very like, grounded part of
(05:46):
myself that knows that and absolutely judges myself for
feeling that way. Yeah, the internal narrative
which says you should or shouldn't be a certain.
Way. This is a personal question and
I like to probe. And usually in these
conversations I expect that as to adults, you'll tell me where
your boundary is. And I want this to feel like a
(06:10):
cathartic experience that's psychologically safe, not the
other way. So it's time to cry.
Great, Let's do it. Can you tell me something that
you're embarrassed about, an anxious thought that you might
not have being as honest about in the past?
Like, what are some of those things that you're actually
judging? What's an example?
(06:32):
It's actually quite relatable towhat I do, and it's something
that I had to deal with earlier this year because I've only been
making content for a year and a half really.
So it's very new to me and I grew really fast, really fast,
and it was so overwhelming and Iwas anxious about this is so
specific and so funny. And I remember talking to my
(06:56):
therapist, thought about it, andI was just like, this is so dumb
that I'm anxious about this, butI used to be anxious that my
videos were too loud and that somebody would wear headphones
and play a video and hurt their ears.
Is so conscientious of. You.
It's like, I was like I would spend hours on audio levels,
(07:20):
which left nobody, nobody does that.
Most people set up their iPhone and just like, shoot a video.
Yeah, I don't even use it. They don't even use an external
microphone. I do because I want to make sure
that it sounds right. You have this beautiful inner
ear fairy inside you that's so concerned for people.
Everyone's. Yeah.
(07:40):
And where do you think that comes from?
That's interesting because that to me is that there's a deeply
compassionate part of you that doesn't want to be annoying or
irritate anyone. Absolutely.
I'm a I'm a a terrible people pleaser and I want to be liked
by everybody and I always want to control how people see me,
(08:02):
view me. And I cannot, I cannot,
especially on the, on the platform I'm on, being seen by
millions of people. I cannot control how people see
me. And so I'm like, what can I
control? Yeah.
And I'm like, I can try. I can control what the video is
about. I can control what it looks
like, what I look like and how it sounds.
But the reason that that got triggered and me very early on
(08:24):
is I had a comment. It was from one comment, and it
was probably because she'd open the app and it was up for
volume. Sure.
And I was like, Oh no, I have tothink about this.
And then that burrowed into my brain for so long and then only
recently have I really been like, that is so silly.
I mean, it's not because nothing, anything that you're
(08:46):
anxious about isn't silly. You know, it comes from a real
place. And for me, it was just about
wanting to make sure that whatever people were what
viewing of me, like whatever I could control, they can't judge
me on. Do you know what?
It doesn't make sense. Yeah, it does.
Really silly. It makes a lot of sense.
You don't want to give people a reason not to like you.
Yes. And that's where, and it's been
(09:07):
really difficult because being on social media is you have to
have a really thick skin becausenot everyone's going to like
you. And I've had to like, have that
as an affirmation for myself daily.
And this is what I've worked with with my therapist.
It's like not everyone's gonna like you.
You don't like everyone in the world.
So how as in, like, there are people in your life that you've
(09:28):
come across that maybe you don'tlike.
Yeah. So how can you expect everyone
to like you? Yeah.
Can you tell me about a time further into our cry factor that
you didn't feel like maybe as a child?
What are some early memories where you're like, I wish these
people liked? Me.
(09:48):
I think this is also where it comes from as well.
All of that is like, there's definitely like an inner Maddie
who just wants to be accepted. And I think, like it comes a lot
from my upbringing as well. I'm I love my family, and I
don't think that they did anything consciously to make me
(10:08):
feel unloved. But I am a middle child and I
have a younger sister who's 11 months younger than me.
And so I was, you know, two or three months old when my mom
fell pregnant again. And I and I hear stories.
I hear stories from when I was very, very young, always trying
to get their attention. And I was a bit mean to my
(10:28):
sister because, you know, she's a sibling.
Yeah, she's taking the attention.
Yes. And so, like I was, I was awful
to her and even like growing up as a kid, I wouldn't let her
play with me and my friends, even though we were basically
the same age, You know, I was 11and then she turned 11 and for a
month were the same age. And she's like, I'm eleven now,
Can I come play with you and your friends?
And I'm like, well, no, you haveto be 11 and 11 months, so you
(10:51):
can't. Drift rules.
So it's quite mean to my sister growing up, and I like me and my
sister is so close now. But then there was this
narrative that I was nasty, thatI was a mean person.
Someone else's narrative or yournarrative?
Well, I've been, you know, your parents telling me that, You
know, my parents saying, like, don't be mean to your sister.
Yep. And so then there was this,
(11:14):
yeah, this concept or like, I was always being told off for
being mean. And that word nasty is actually
a word that was used a lot, which is it's a trigger word for
me now. Sure.
But nobody got nasty. And so but like, I was, I was
mean to her because she was a sibling.
And so then there was like this,you know, going into my teenage
years, there was always this kind of, like thing said about
(11:34):
me that I was mean. And then now I've really been
trying to not be that. And I'm like, I cannot, I cannot
have anyone believe that I'm a mean person.
And that's where this whole, like, um, narrative of not
narrative, but like this anxietythat I've got that I I'm trying
to control how people to see me.And it's hard in comedy because
(11:58):
I'm making fun of someone. Comedy is always at the expense
of someone. You're making fun of a thing, a
situation yourself, someone else, someone's going to get
offended, you know, if they don't have a thick skin.
Like often I do dating skits where I'm making fun of men.
I've got butt hurt men in my DM's telling me I'm a bitch.
You know what I mean? So it's just like it's it's just
(12:19):
weird balance that are like, I've landed in this comedy world
because it kind of happened by accident.
I didn't try to become a comedy creator.
I was just bored and locked downand a skit went off and I was
like, maybe I'm good at this. And then it kept going and now
I'm like, oh, I'm a covenant creator.
But it's yeah, so like, there's this weird balance that I'm
trying to may or I'm trying to make a balance between like this
(12:41):
intrinsic, like little girl Maddie who's just trying to
prove that she's not a mean person yet somehow make fun of
people to try and like, do my job.
It's really? Yeah.
It's a tightrope to. Walk it is.
And so earlier this year, like, I was having all of these
massive successes, but I was really struggling because I was
like, people don't like me. Hmm, What am I?
(13:02):
How do I? And I, I really tried to also
control, like, how I made a skit.
And I was, like, really trying to, even the way I played my
characters. I'm like, not trying to be too
judgmental to who I'm making funof.
Like, it's all a little bit dorky and a little bit awkward.
Do you know what I mean? So like, you can kind of see
like, oh, she's just being cute about.
It you can wiggle out of it a bit.
Yeah, because I'm still, I'm still trying to make people
(13:24):
believe that I'm not a mean person.
Can we? I like the exercise of like,
let's finish this sentence. So um, I don't want to be a mean
person because if I'm nasty, that will result in.
People like be feeling unloved. Unloved.
(13:46):
Yeah. So it's really, this whole thing
is actually pretty high stakes. Because I would imagine one of,
if not your core need is to feelloved.
Like most of us, Yeah. And you've essentially doubled
down on a career where you're putting that core need some
audit threat and you're rolling the dice on it.
And every day you're trying to thread the needle on expressing
(14:11):
yourself, being an actor, a comedian.
Uh, whilst improving the the love that you have and
mitigating the potential downside.
It's. Wild.
That's therapy, man. So, you know, you said that it
that it was embarrassing or small, but actually that sounds
pretty reasonable when you take that lens on it, Wouldn't you
(14:32):
agree? Absolutely.
It's far more than just I'm worried that the music's too
loud. It's like, OK, well let's roll
that onion back a few layers andsee what that actually is trying
to point to. What that's trying to point to
is how do I be successful in my career at the littlest expense
to others possible. And that's a worthwhile thing to
investigate in therapy in my opinion.
(14:56):
What I'm really curious about asa follow on is you know you're
someone who does put yourself out there and it requires a shit
tonne of confidence. Are you a confident person?
Yes. Where did that come from?
Well, I've performed my whole life and I think that that has.
(15:17):
That's just an innately part of my personality.
I'm always being outgoing. I think also like being the
middle child and always vying for everyone's attention comes
from it as well. But I've I've danced since I was
four and then been in drama forever and I just, I love
performing and I think that's where my confidence has really
(15:39):
come from. Exposure.
Yeah. Exposure to it where it could go
bad, but you did it anyway. Yeah, and like, even with my
online, my time online, when I first started, I wasn't
performing to millions of people.
It was tiny. And it's really, really
gradually grown to be in front of millions, which is wild.
(16:00):
But like, I've slowly gotten used to it being seen by that
many people. The first time I went viral when
I was like really, really small creator, that was so
overwhelming because again, it was like, is everyone gonna like
me? And like, it was really, it was
really great, really great feedback because it was I was
making fun of my parents and everyone can relate to that.
(16:20):
So it wasn't really, I wasn't the the person I was making fun
of really is just my mom and dad.
And they loved it. Yeah.
And so like it was this great validation in that very first
video, but then you don't go viral for a while and so then
you're chasing it. So it's a little bit different.
And so, like, that's been a weird balance to to kind of um
(16:42):
or like just something to come to terms with like you're not
always going to get it out of. Yeah.
And you can't, you can't expect it to and you can't base your
value on views and likes. And I did for awhile.
Do you still? Be honest sometimes.
Yeah. But I'm I'm.
I'm not I'm not as bad as I was like definitely like following
fluctuate. And I grew really crazy fast in
(17:04):
the beginning and I haven't. I haven't been able to match
that. Like that would be impossible to
try and grow at that trajectory forever.
It's not sustainable and it would drive me wild like crazy
if I kept trying to drive grow that way.
But I definitely do. When I'm making videos, I'm
always just like, how can I makethis like the most valuable so
(17:27):
that I will get good engagement?It's a business model rat, but
I'm really trying. I really try not to like base my
own personal value in views and likes.
I think a lot of people strugglewith value, self worth.
Do you think confidence is innate, like you're you're born
(17:50):
a more confident person or that it's social conditioning?
So I think social conditioning, yeah.
In your experience as someone who has built confidence, what
do you think has been other thanperforming in front of crowds?
What do you think is the single best thing that has helped you
build a thicker skin? You said it before exposure to
(18:13):
it. Yeah, just doing it over and
over and over again. Yeah.
Because I see a lot of people who they, maybe they've been
told in their life before that they're not allowed to be
themselves. Yeah.
And they shrink. Yeah.
And you tell someone, just don'tshrink, do what you want to do,
say what you want to say, be whoyou want to be.
And they're like, OK, And then they don't do it.
(18:34):
Yeah. And so I think, you know, a lot
of people need practical first steps or better yet, a different
belief system. And what do you, what have you
seen with people that lack confidence some of their belief
systems are? I think that if they've been
told from a young age that they have to be small, it's going to
(18:55):
be really, really hard for them to not try and be small.
Um. And so that's, that would be
really difficult to to fall out of that habit because sometimes
they might be doing stuff that they're not even conscious of to
make themselves feel. You know to be small, standing
in a corner in a in a crowded room, trying not to take up
space. And as a woman I think that this
(19:16):
happens a lot. I am, this is quite funny but a
personal story. Recently I got told to calm down
that I was being too loud recently by a person no longer
speaking to. Especially because it's the
noise trigger as. Well, yeah.
And I was like. You're like, don't shake that.
Yeah. And it was just like it was
(19:37):
quite interesting that the reaction that it had within me,
Sure, because it obviously has, is something that's happened to
me. Be smaller.
Be smaller, Yeah. Yeah.
And so then I like, I guess my reaction to it, and it has been
since I was a kid, even to my parents, to be like, well, fuck
you, I'm going to be louder. So I guess, like, it's my
response to it is different. Whereas other people I would
(19:59):
sense. But definitely someone tells
them to be smaller. I'm going to be smaller, I
haven't answered the question. Well, I think you've you've
better answered it, which is if we, if we are told a certain
narrative and we're young, it's really hard to drop when we're
older. Yeah.
And the only way to do that is to have the confidence to
(20:22):
bucket. But how do you, it's kind of
chicken and egg. How do you get the confidence to
bucket? You just gotta do.
It I think it's seeing people around you role model what it
means to go from small to growth.
And I don't know, at least for me, it's when there's a
shortcoming or set a more compassionate way, a limiting
(20:44):
belief within me. What I usually do is look
outwards and say, where can I find a version of this that I
can relate to? And they've done it because my
mindset is, for better or for worse could be delusion.
If one human being can do something, I can fucking do it
or get darn close. Yeah, and I know that, like,
(21:05):
heart on my sleeve started because I saw one guy wearing
his heart on his sleeve after a whole lifetime of hiding.
And I'm like, I can fucking do that.
And for for a lot of people, it is that if you see it work, you
can. And then when that thought says
no, but I can't because say fuckyou yeah to yourself and your
(21:28):
brain and that party. You.
Yeah, bring it out fully. All the other silly side to that
one can be quiet logical brain be loud.
Totally. And I think, like, again, this
is a privileged comment because I had maybe the childhood from
my mom especially that has enabled thoughts like this to
(21:49):
come. But for me, I'm like, I'm gonna
fucking die one day. Yeah, I'm gonna turn into dust.
And we're already just evolved fishes and monkeys.
Yeah, and the world's gonna spoon for another trillion years
and then some. Hmm.
So in moments that I want to shrink and I'm scared, I go who
the fuck cares? Yeah, it's this spotlight
(22:10):
effect. You as well, like nobody's
watching you as closely as you think they are single person.
And this is the whole thing withme and my anxieties as well.
Like nobody's looking at my numbers.
Nobody cares, didn't really cares.
And so sometimes I've really hadto have that brain as well, like
the spotlights not on you. So like nobody, if you, if you
speak up and do what you're afraid of, you are the one who's
(22:33):
focusing on on the how uncomfortable you are.
But most of the time, people, the other people, they're mostly
focusing on themselves anyway. Hmm.
So yeah, I just think, yeah, sayfuck it.
Do it. This is a usually something that
I'll ask at the end, but I feel like it's a good time to ask
now. What's the story that you used
to tell yourself that you no longer tell yourself?
(22:57):
That yeah, I think, I mean, we've kind of touched on it, but
there is something that I say tomyself every day because I have
like a list of affirmations thathelps me and one of them is that
I am going to remember I must read it off piece of paper.
So it's a terrible memory. It's like I'm strong, I'm
powerful and no one can take that away from me.
(23:18):
So like my power and my loudnessand my boldness is a strength.
And I'm just trying to. I'm trying to believe that it's
a strength. And not because obviously my
whole life trying not to. I'm trying to prove that I'm not
a mean person. But I think that like me being
bold and loud is is a powerful strength that I have and no one
can remove that. Like I have given myself that
(23:41):
title, that it's a strength. Nobody can make me believe
otherwise and if they believe it, they believe it.
But it's it's what I believe that's most important.
And in moments where like that guy did the other way, and in
moments where a TikTok troll will say whatever they say, hmm.
And then the old brain and narrative starts to chomp.
(24:02):
How do you stop that? I mean, she's there.
She's definitely there. But yeah, it stays.
It's reminding myself those words.
But also most of the time when I'm having like an anxious time,
I sleep on it. I allow myself to feel that way
for a day. And I'm like, I try not cause
like I'm going to think about itno matter what.
Like I'm gonna focus on it and sometimes I can't stop it and I
(24:26):
will let myself do it for a day.I'm like, you're allowed to feel
this way today, but we're going to go to bed and tomorrow we're
going to wake up different. What's your favourite emotion to
feel? No, I love all of them.
Some are harder than others. Probably joy.
(24:47):
When can you think about a memory where you felt most
joyous? Most recently I reunited with my
best friend in Japan. I haven't seen her in a while.
She lives in London and that wasjust pure joy.
Just we just held each other. So, so great Love, yeah, love.
(25:07):
The core need, yeah. And my dog as well.
He brings me so much joy. I got him this year.
He's changed my life. He's a good.
Boy, oh, he's so good. It's well, what for.
For me, what I needed this year,especially with this whole cycle
I was going through, because I work alone and I live alone and
so it's hard to get out of that space.
But he gave me a routine. Yeah, go for a walk in the
(25:29):
morning, we go for a walk at night.
He bookends my day and he allowsme to switch off because
literally forces me to. He's like mum, I'm ready now.
Took the laptop. Away out to ship myself.
Yeah, let's go. Unless you want to clean this
up. Yeah, so like, even that
unconditional love from a pet has been really helpful.
But yeah, Joy most recently was with my friend Hannah.
(25:50):
That was just, yeah, pure joy. And we speak every day on the
phone. And so, like, she is really
helpful. Like having a person in my life
that is so supportive, like she's my cheerleader no matter
what happens. And sometimes we'll have a cry
together. But it's just so it's the love.
It's so pure. Love it.
Speaking of love, you do a lot of content about dating.
(26:13):
Yes, I do. And it's so fucking funny.
I would encourage everyone to jump on and search Maddie McRae,
because that shit will give you some good lols and escape, but
obviously that comes from somewhere.
Oh yeah, we were just talking off there around how there was
the guy who got up like halfway through doing the hunky Dory and
(26:35):
block of cheese. It's like a real life
ratatouille, yeah. He got lightheaded.
It's fine, I guess. It's fine.
What? What draws you to that space?
Because it's my life. That's my life right now.
So like the content I make is it's all of the inspiration
comes from my life experience. I'm sure that if I started
dating someone, my content wouldshift into more like
(26:57):
relationship scenarios, But right now it's all about being
single because I mean, I'm to gotalk about relationships.
I'm mostly a monogamous relationship, girly, and from
the age of 15 to the age of 27, I was in long term
relationships. And the last three years I've
been single. And so, like, since being
online, I've been in this kind of like dating world.
(27:20):
And it's quite interesting because I feel like online
dating has really shifted since COVID.
Hmm. It's hilarious.
And there's so much content. It's dire and it's sad.
Swamp. It's a swamp, not a dating pool.
It's a dating swamp. And we're all just kind of just.
Finding out. Tricks.
You're just like breathing through your lips, just coming
above the water. It's just it's so but it's and
(27:42):
it's terrible. But I'm able to make fun of it
and make fun of myself, and obviously make other people feel
a little less alone in this awful dating swamp by making fun
of it. So make little skits about it,
and it's so much fun. They do so well because they're
so relatable. So relatable.
And like, in some ways, it's fucking sad that it's relatable
(28:04):
because it means. That so sad.
Everyone's out here just having the worst time on dates, Yeah,
but at least you get some good stories.
Out of it really do. And you How do you identify from
any sexuality perspective if you're open to sharing?
I'm bisexual. Bisexual.
And how does that inform your worldview?
(28:27):
I guess Like, is it a big part of who you are?
Is it shape the way you think about yourself and life?
Yes, but yes and no. I don't often talk about being
by online, and I don't often do skits with girls.
Like, they'll be in there sometimes with dating.
But I kind of really conform to the heteronormative worldview
(28:51):
because I didn't want it to be my key identifier, if that makes
sense, if you want to have to say Maddie McCray, bisexual
comedy creator. Because I find that, like, and I
love that there are people who do champion that.
But I was like, I just want to make a skit rat.
Sexuality is not a part of it, even though I do talk about sex
a lot. I mean, the main joke I make
(29:12):
about sex is it's literally the same joke I tell, just in
different ways, which is just a man not being able to find the
clitoris. Just, yeah, you know, sometimes
they do it with an elevator, youknow, he's going to the wrong
floor. Or other times she's at a party
and she's being ignored. And other times I've done it
with like a paper flower on the floor, like it's I'm making the
same joke, the sex content. Um, but in terms of like it
(29:36):
informing who I am, yes, but privately.
Going back to our original comments around boundaries and
psychological safety, please just let me know if I'm viewing
anywhere. This is Fuck you, you fuck you
bitch. Fuck yeah.
How dare you? Dare you.
(29:58):
Be quiet. I find the the psychology of
this fascinating because I I hada one of my ex partners, Alana.
She's so fucking awesome and after dating me she's now
married to a woman. Yeah.
And I was always curious for her.
And maybe you can speak to your experience is first and
(30:24):
foremost, were you first attracted to males or females,
if you know? And second of all, do you think
the secondary attraction came from an emotional or physical
expansion? Yeah, I I think consciously I
was attracted to men first, but I do have some like early
(30:47):
memories now that I've come out and become more aware of my
sexuality. That would definitely with
girls, but I didn't realise whatit was at the time.
So I feel like my first kind of like almost sexual encounter,
which really wasn't, but it's, you know, just touching.
But it was just like we were playing house, but it was like
(31:07):
we were playing a game. It wasn't like, I'm with you
because you're a girl. But now I think back and I'm
like, ohhhhhh, yeah, it was right there all alone.
Yeah. So I was definitely consciously
attracted to men first and then first time I was attracted to a
girl. Like, in real life, Like, I
(31:28):
think I've always found it attractive and like, in terms
of, like, what I was sexually attracted to, I think I've
always just, like, I just assumed everyone was attracted
to both. So I was just like, it's not
nothing, I'm never going to dateanother girl, but like,
everyone's attracted to women and men.
That was just kind of like my thought process when I became
sexually active, you know? But when I was actually
(31:49):
attracted to a woman and I wanted to, like, date her, that
was a physical reaction. A physical.
What was the word you used? Response.
Yeah, it was physical or drugs. Yeah, it was like we were
playing spin the bottle literally like a university
party. And we started kissing.
And then the game ended. Game ended.
(32:10):
And like, let's still kiss. Yeah, well, no, as in, like,
everyone left because we didn't stop.
I was like, oh, we better leave.Bye.
Sorry are we once again? Also shut out to spin the.
Bottle love Spin the bottle. Has straight up cut through so
many like awkward tensions and has enabled everyone's deepest
fantasies come true with any excuse.
(32:32):
Yeah, like. Yeah, but that was like a
physical response. Obviously you were kissing.
And then I was like, I really like this.
Yeah. And then I ended up dating her
for four years. She was my last partner.
Nice. Yeah.
Not looking good. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it just again, shout out to spin the bottle.
That needed to happen twice. It was good and what is?
(32:55):
It's awkward. I didn't know how to make the
first move oht fully, so we're like, well, the bottle said So
we have to make. Out.
It's literal. Magic in my mouth.
You're right now. I think Twister has a similar
effect. Yeah, yeah, just that.
Like it's got the. We're on top of each other.
Sorry, I'm straddling you and. Now we're married.
Yeah, sorry, but whoops. Twister.
(33:18):
What's the difference from an emotional standpoint, do you
think, with regard to, like yourattachment needs and feeling
loved, You find that differs a lot between men and women and
your security? It's hard.
That's a hard question for me toanswer because I've only been
with one woman and I think that her attachment style or out like
our relationship is not reflective of her being a woman.
(33:42):
I think it was just her and who she was.
So that's hard for me to comparebecause she had quite an anxious
attachment style and I don't think that that's say I'm not, I
don't want to say that all womenare like that.
No, cause I don't have an anxious attachment style.
What attachment style? Avoidant.
Yeah. I'm like, see you later.
Yeah. Things get hard.
(34:02):
I'm outta here. Yeah.
Which I'm dealing with. Yeah, but it's a style.
But yeah, so she had a Our relationship didn't end well.
Like it was quite a. Conflict heavy?
Yeah, it was. And do you know what?
And it's quite funny that we're doing a a podcast about mental
health because it had to do withmental health.
(34:23):
A lot of we had a lot of issues with mental health and that's
why the relationship eventually fell apart and we went our
separate ways. And she's doing much better now
and I'm doing much better now. I just think that like us two
together, we're not, we weren't compatible and we kind of
enabled our issues and it was just us swamp swampy.
(34:47):
It was so swampy, but it was also in the middle of COVID.
Yeah, so. There was a lot going on.
So it's also your first female relationship, so you're
adjusting to that. Absolutely And like you know
certain expectations from familythinking that I was gonna follow
the heteronormative yeah you know nuclear family.
So there was, there was a lot inthat relationship and it was a
(35:08):
lot of firsts there. And so it's hard for me to kind
of compare my relationship with men versus women.
Fair. Yeah, totally fair.
Yeah, it's funny. I been doing a lot of thinking
recently on the concept of do you need to heal on your own
first before getting into relationship or do you heal with
(35:30):
a partner? And I'm a big believer in saying
and more than awe as much as possible, and because I think
thinking in black and white often puts us into situations
that are unnatural because of the brain's desire for certainty
more than the brain's desire fortruth.
And I think you need to do a certain baseline level of work
(35:50):
before you enter into partnership, because otherwise
you just spew out Everything Everywhere and you use your
partner's love and affection andbutterflies as a way to escape
from the thing that you should confront.
But I also don't believe you need to be perfect to come into
relationship. And a lot of wounding can be
healed through the right type ofattachment in romance and pause.
(36:13):
Would you agree with that? Yes.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that like from my
own experience, especially goinginto relationships at such a
young age, um, and being single now, there's been so much more
discovery of who I am on my own.And when I first became single,
(36:34):
I really struggled. Like, it was really, really hard
to not have another person. But I've learned so much more
about myself through that process.
But I've always really loved those quote by somebody and I
don't know what it is. I don't know, maybe it was even
a TikTok, but it was about beinga person or being single.
It's about discovering a new city or like moving into a new
(36:55):
city and like learning the back streets and like understanding
all of the secret pathways and kind of like drawing a map.
You know you're you're discovering it on your own.
And when you meet someone, they're not completing your map,
you're showing them around your map.
Yep, fully. Agree.
And so, like, even if it's not fully complete, like what you
(37:16):
were saying before, like even you haven't, you can discover
stuff together because that's what happens.
You grow together as a person, and their interests become your
interests and tastes. Their tastes become your tastes.
And like, of course that's goingto happen.
But you really have to have a good foundation of who you are
before you welcome someone into it.
And that was hard for me becauseI was a chameleon.
I became who I dated for so long.
(37:39):
Like their mannerisms, their like even the way they spoke.
I develop like I it's that became me.
It was like I've had three majorrelationships in my life and I
was three different people in all three of them.
So this, like last three years has just been like, well, who
the fuck am I? I don't.
Know. Did you find an answer to that
question? Yeah, I.
(38:00):
Think so. Either way, if you dated someone
else, do you think you would chameleon into them?
No, I I don't know. I don't know cause I haven't
since being single, right. I hope not.
I think that like, I've really gotten good at setting good
boundaries, especially because the last relationship was like
probably the most chameleon. Like we were one person.
(38:21):
It was a weird pretzel, dementedpretzel.
We call this enmeshment. Enmeshment.
Yeah. And like, you know, you have
your circles of influence. This is what my therapist told
me. And she was in there.
You know, you're meant to just, it's meant to be you.
Just that in that inner circle. And then you've got your voices,
people, and like, shoots in my circle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was it was, you know, that should just
(38:43):
be you. Yeah.
So, like, I've had to really work at boundaries because I was
like, I can never be in a situation like that again.
We can't. Because otherwise you lose trust
in. Yourself, yeah.
And you forget what it's like toregulate on your own.
And then the moment any type of dysregulation or distress comes
up, you're like, where is my person as opposed to where am I?
(39:06):
Yeah. And I think we've normalised
maybe through Hollywood. Yeah, that it's it's romantic
and idealised to become whole through someone.
Yes, if psychologists had any right to review movies before
they were published, they would be like.
No. No, no, no.
No. No, no, no.
Why are we telling everyone thatthis is, like, aspirational?
(39:27):
Yeah, if someone's making you whole, you will inevitably fall
apart. But we grow up with that.
Disney taught us that. Yeah, you know, that's that's
what we grow up with. Like this discourse that you
have to have someone in order tolive happily ever after.
You cannot be alone. And then what happens if like
you, if you fight or you break up or you're in a situation that
(39:49):
requires your own values to orientate your way through it as
opposed to theirs? You spiral.
Yeah, and I'm not saying don't connect with others.
My whole fucking livelihood is built on teaching people to
connect. I'm saying that having an
independent sense of self that you can trust and regulate on
your own and also Co regulate with others, sometimes through
(40:13):
connection and feeling reassuredand comforted, both are needed.
But if you lean too far either way, you're fucked.
Yeah, yeah. My biggest, biggest revelation
that's happened is in related tothat, in this last like three
years of being single is that when something really great or
something really terrible happens to me, I used to always
(40:34):
immediately call my partner to get their advice, their opinion,
have a rant, and I don't have that.
I mean, I've got my sisters and my close friends and my dog and
I've got my dog. He has a lot.
Gotta be key controls like shut up.
You come home, he's wearing likeglasses and lying back on his.
Chair and. He's like, hit me, bitch.
(40:55):
Yeah, I'm ready. Take me for a walk first.
Yeah, so like then I've got you.I've had I don't have that
person And it's been funny because I had a conversation
with another content creator recently about this is it's been
difficult to not immediately jump on your Instagram story to
then get your Instagram followers responses because
(41:17):
that's also like kind of, I havethis relationship with my my
online community that that is filling a certain void that I
don't have personally, right. And so when something like
really crazy happens to me like this morning something fucked
happened with my real estate so angry.
And I guess I have that like instant response that I'm like I
(41:38):
have to call someone to tell them.
And I also get like a little pang of sadness because I'm
like, well, I wish I had a person, but it's kind of great
that I don't because I get to figure out how I respond to
first before I hear someone else's opinion.
Yeah, I think what it does matter is it forces you to go
toward the pain. And you know, we're speaking
earlier around that I believe isthe most helpful thing I've ever
(42:00):
done in my life is learn how to sit with pain.
Because when you do your, your nervous system does a bicep
curl. So it's basically three years of
working out and not running awayfrom that feeling by giving it
to someone else, but actually just resting in it and realising
holy fuck, I can do this. So when a partner comes into
your life, they're like, I don'tneed you, I want you though.
(42:22):
Yeah, and that's a really abundant place to be.
Hmm. Yeah.
And it's been, it's been kind ofamazing that this massive career
explosion that I've had, I've only had since being on my own.
And so I'm just like, I did thatmyself on the back.
It's great. And now I'm like, I feel like
I'm open to share. I'm open to sharing that with
(42:44):
someone. But I don't feel like I need
them there to continue on this journey that I'm on.
Just like I got this, you can come with me, you know, But I
got it. Yeah, you can add but I don't.
But you don't need to multiply until I'm enough.
So much goodness. Yeah, we got some good stuff.
Yeah, it's been rich. It's been rich.
(43:05):
Yes, just a chocolate pudding. It's really rich pudding.
Like, yeah, like mud cake. Speaking of might, actually,
that's where I want to go Last before we bring this home is,
yeah, what a when? When you're in the mud, can you
(43:26):
think about an example or a story of when someone has
supported you through a hard moment or hard chapter?
What are some of the things thatthey did?
What did I say and do that? You're like shit.
That was super helpful. Yeah, I do have that.
This, this last relationship that I just came out of was
(43:47):
really hard to leave. And I had a really close friend
helped me through that. Not by saying anything, she just
was there every day. Just call me, text me.
It was just like presents to be like, I'm here with you.
She couldn't spoon feed me the answers because she knew that it
was something that I had to do. But she was there every single
(44:10):
day and it was just knowing thatI had a person to.
She held me accountable really, because the easier option was to
not end it. The easier option was to stay
because it's hard ending a relationship that's so hard.
She she held me accountable justby like texting me everyday.
(44:31):
I think there's something to be said for I I don't know how to
say this other than this word thereness.
Like someone. Presentness.
Yeah. Presence.
It really gives you something tohold on to when you feel like
there's nothing to hold on to. Yeah, and sometimes we feel
negligent that just by showing up we're not doing enough.
(44:53):
But that's often what the personneeds.
Because sometimes, like, people go through awful stuff, right?
And you're just like, what do I even say?
Sometimes you don't have to, just have to be there.
Maddie, what's the question thatI didn't ask you, but you wish I
did? Why aren't you crying?
(45:15):
This is really vulnerable. Where are the 2?
Where are the tears? Which is actually quite funny
because it's a big sign to me that I am unable to be
vulnerable and I make jokes about everything.
I'm literally Chandler being I just.
I make a joke. Make up the jokes.
I make the jokes. Somebody like says something
vulnerable and I'm like, how canI make this funny?
Because I don't wanna cry. Do you hide behind comedy?
(45:36):
Absolutely. Like even when I'm like really
nervous and I'm meeting new people and like how can I be
self deprecating? How can I make fun of myself to
make myself? Like, if I make fun of myself
first, then I won't be embarrassed somehow.
I'll do it first. I'll be the one to point out the
flaws and, you know, diffuse this tension with laughter.
Absolutely. That didn't answer your
question, but it was a fun tidbit.
(45:59):
It was a It was a fun little U turn.
Yeah. I wanna come back to it.
Oht no. Hence the U turn.
What's the question you wish I'dask you, but I?
Didn't. I don't know.
I'm not sure. Yeah, because we did.
We went deeper. Liked it?
It? Was good.
Yeah, we covered a lot. Yeah.
Maybe that's the question I'd like to ask.
How do you feel now after havingthat conversation?
(46:22):
Cause I'm arguably, well, not anymore.
Now we're friends. Yeah.
But an hour ago I was a stranger.
How do you, how have you felt being quite real for the last, I
don't know how long we've been going, Maybe hour?
I look, I think we touched on itin the beginning.
Like, I find it kind of easy to be vulnerable with someone who I
don't know. I obviously didn't go that deep
(46:44):
into my deep fears. Like, I think about younger
Maddie and her need to be liked and I will weep thinking about
her. Do you know what I mean?
Like, there is definitely, like a lot of pain there.
But I feel good. I feel like what I've
experienced is probably what a lot of other people experience
(47:06):
in what I and I'm also very conscious that we have a
microphone right here and we're talking to people.
People are listening. So I want to make sure that
they're gaining value. But I feel good about how deep
we went. We didn't cross any boundaries.
Good. I feel good about it.
Thank you so much for having a yarn and looking forward to
staying connected and cheering you on.
(47:27):
Cheerleaders. There will be many people who
wanna follow you, so can you tell them where to find?
You. My name is Maddie McRae.
My handles. Maddie spoke with a Y
underscore. MACRAE throw in another
underscore at the end because somebody else took my handle.
Somebody else uses it. Fuck you, Maddie.
McCray. Who knows.
No one underscores. She's got my hand all I wanted
(47:48):
to do. Both of us.
But if you just look up Maddie McRae, you'll find me.
I'm on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.
Yeah, you'll know because of thegazillion followers and the darn
good content. Just a few, yeah.
You're a legend. Thanks so much.
Don't have a natural tendency todissipate unless they get
(48:09):
reinforced. And so if there's more thoughts,
more stories, more intentions come along.
So the act of how am I leaving it alone Is an act of not act.
Adding more stories, adding fuelto it.
So it might not go away in 2 minutes, but it begins to relax
with dissipate. And so, rather than being the
person who has to fix it, would become the person who makes
(48:29):
space for the heart, the mind torelax and settle away itself.
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