July 17, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode, Laura Dohanes shares how her early passion for reading contracts evolved into a nationwide tax planning practice serving investors and business owners. With experience defending over 3,000 IRS audits, she emphasizes why planning your exit before making an investment is critical and how it can protect you from costly tax pitfalls.
Laura also explores how AI can elevate, not replace, professional judgment, and delivers practical advice on managing risk, making grounded decisions, and preparing for the worst-case scenario before jumping into real estate or business ventures.
Her story is a reminder that real success isn’t just financial, it’s about passing on wisdom and building a legacy of critical thinking.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Heather (00:04):
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown.
I am your host, Heather Ewing,and today.
I have none other than LauraDonis, Laura welcome.
Laura (00:15):
Yes, thank you for having me.
Heather, Beautiful day.
Heather (00:19):
Definitely, and from what I understand, you are
across the country working rightnow.
Laura (00:27):
I'm across the ocean at this moment, but, yeah, I'm
coming back home.
I've been away for two monthsand you know as nice it is to
travel.
There's no place like home, soyou know.
I'm looking forward to comeback on US soil next week.
So yeah, absolutely.
Heather (00:47):
Perfect.
Well, we've been connectingthrough LinkedIn for about a
year year and a half and I knowyou have amazing tax strategies
and that's really your expertise.
Share with our audience alittle bit more about your
background, who you are aboutyour background, who you are.
Laura (01:10):
Yeah well, I am a CPA, who you know.
I think tax found me more thanI found in the tax world.
You know I loved law more thananything else and you know, if
someone would ask me how did Ibegin, I'd probably begin when I
was 10, 12 years old, readingcontracts and, as boring as it
sounds, that was very attractiveto me.
For some reason I got so pulledinto reading the contracts,
like purchase agreements orbuy-sell agreements.
(01:31):
You know my dad was in allkinds of businesses and
purchasing and all that, so thatfor me was pleasure to just
read the contracts, which soundsso boring.
So you know, obviously,contracts, which sounds so
boring.
So you know, obviously I gotinto the accounting world at a
very, very young age and I gotinto tax, probably by accident.
I was just fascinated.
I came to the United Statesabout 25 years ago and the tax
(01:56):
world just pulled me in and Igot a second job and then I got
another job.
It's like, oh, this tax worldis just more fascinating and
most fascinating.
And I got into representingbusiness owners and investors
into tax audits, which is suchan amazing field and I find that
very few CPAs or tax preparerof any kinds, have that
(02:20):
experience and the knowledge ofhow do you defend the position,
which kind of bridge between thelegal aspect of what I love and
the accounting and tax worldright and getting into how do
you defend a position.
After about 3,000 casesface-to-face with the IRS, I
realized that I want to be onthe other end of the road where
(02:41):
we can project what we want todo and we can project the
defendability of your positionbefore you even go into a
contract, before you even getinto a deal, before you even buy
the investment, before you makethat decision.
So I know it was a very longanswer, but it's a great deal
because once you understand that, you can project what your
(03:02):
outcome and what your exit wouldbe from the beginning.
That's why I get attracted toall of this.
So you know, we've built avirtual firm throughout the
United States serving clientsall over the US and just doing
that tax planning, which islooking ahead and projecting the
exit.
If I'm buying a building, how amI going to exit?
If I'm buying a business, howam I going to exit?
(03:23):
If I get married, how am Igoing to exit?
If I get married, how am Igoing to exit.
That was a joke, um, you know,but there's always an exit, like
there, the joke or not, there'salways an exit.
People don't realize it becauseyou can exit on your terms or
you can exit because you have toexit and you're not ready.
So, regardless, I mean, I thinkthe only one we don't have an
exit is kids.
If someone has an exit for kids, I know, I know that crossed
(03:49):
the line.
Heather (03:50):
Yeah, I know that crossed the line a little bit.
Laura (03:53):
It's just one of those things because you keep
investing, investing, investingand there's just no payback.
Maybe I'm still in the trenches, who knows if somebody has seen
the growth and they're actually.
We'll see.
We have hope.
Great, that never leaves us.
That's the journey, yeah.
Heather (04:09):
Definitely Well, and I think what you mentioned too is
I've always said you have tohave the end in sight before you
begin Any type of rigorousplanning.
You really want to be effective.
You want to utilize your energy, your time, your resources in
the best way.
So I love that you take thatvantage point and lens on it.
How did you get into, you know,the mindset for tax?
(04:33):
right Because like you said,there's not many young kids that
are intrigued by reading thesereports and different things
like that.
What do you think it is about?
Mindset.
Laura (04:42):
Not only that sparked your attention as a young child,
but has brought you to whereyou're at, helping people all
across the nation yeah, well, um, I think we have to kind of
take two pieces and I had aconversation um, today, um, and
it was very interesting thatsome people you have to, you
have to understand yourself andsome people never get the
(05:05):
understanding of who they are,what they really want, what
triggers them.
And, um, maybe I'm a more of alogical type of personality and,
as a person, I don't get, youknow, aroused by the adventure
necessarily of going and, youknow, jumping or bungee jumping
or doing, like, you know, goingoff road, it's not really, you
(05:27):
know, giving my adrenaline, andfor myself, the adrenaline is
like oh, this is a new businessmodel, this is an investment
model.
You do this and you get likecompound interest.
Are you kidding me?
Is that the most amazing?
So, call it nerd, call itwhatever you, you know we might
call it Like that's what sparkedmy interest as a kid.
And I'm looking at my businessowners because I'm serving
(05:49):
business owners and I'm servingthe investors that are building
businesses.
We have to understand that ifyou don't have that mental like
attractiveness to the numbers ordoing the math, or this model
or the statistics of what'sgoing to happen, you have to
realize where you need to hirethe right people or partner with
(06:12):
the right people.
So I mean, will everybody havethe same mindset of doing the
calculations and just doing thenerdy stuff?
I enjoy it.
It just sounds very boring.
It's not boring to me, like Iget mentally aroused by oh, this
is so cool, this is a new law.
How amazing this new law is.
How many people can you go fora coffee chat and having that
(06:34):
conversation?
Right, right, that's wherethey're like.
Heather (06:37):
Thank God for Laura.
Laura (06:39):
But, but it's, it's and it's, it's not.
It's so beautiful because whatI realized is that understanding
that we have limitations allowsus to partner with the right
people.
If I'm going buying a piece ofreal estate, I'm not going to go
and buy my own real estate.
I have a list of what I wantand I'm going to go to the right
person who can get the thingdone for me.
(06:59):
I just came, I was telling you,I came from a site.
They're building right now anew building and we went to see.
You know it's like the wholework in progress.
You know they're on the fourthlevel of build and all of that,
and I was looking at it.
I went with the list yeah, Iwant this, this, this.
Do I need to be nerding on the?
(07:21):
How do you build?
What do you put this?
How many outlets?
How's the electricity?
What kind of purpose do youneed?
I don't really care, it's notmy thing.
That's somebody else's hotspotwhere they can shine.
So I believe that we, you knowin the whole mindset is
understanding what makes youhappy and what gives you the
(07:43):
most joy.
That's where you can reallyhave the highest impact.
Because if I would do, I don'tknow how somebody can do this.
Just for what?
For money?
It just doesn't make any sense.
Heather (07:55):
I don't I don't think it's possible to your point when
you look around.
That's where I say some peopleare dead in the eyes and anytime
, whichever city that peopletypically finish their work day
it's 5, 530 here in Madison,wisconsin, but you'll just see
(08:19):
it like the eyes are glazed overand they're physically
breathing, but they are sotapped out and I think that's
the unfortunate thing is whatyou're sharing, too is it's all
a story that everyone plays intheir head and it does require a
lot of energy.
It requires a lot of suffering,really, which I think is
unfortunate.
So I love that you identifiedit early and that remains true
(08:41):
for you of your area ofexpertise, and I agree, laura,
that each of us individually, Ifeel like we have a duty to
ourselves and all of life toreally understand who we are,
what we are, align that and toreally serve at our highest
function, Because otherwise, ifyou think about it, you're
shorting yourself and everyoneelse and not living to your
(09:04):
potential.
So I think that's such a hugepoint.
I appreciate you bringing thatup With everything that's
happening and you think of AI,right?
How do you see that affectingtaxes and what you do?
Laura (09:22):
Well, I love it, you know , for one, it just makes things
easier.
And the same way, when thingsare becoming easier, we can
slack.
And I don't think AI meansyou're going to slack off, and I
think a lot of people aresaying, oh, we're going to lose
our jobs.
Might as well, not do anything.
Might as well, just you know,just hand your tools and we're
(09:46):
done here, whereas I see theopportunities that it can bring
and, you know, kind of puttingdifferent controls in place.
And if I'm thinking like when Ilearned, you know, tax
preparation, we learned it onpaper and it's just very
interesting.
It was just on paper and it'sjust very interesting.
It was just, it was just onpaper.
I had to be able to do a taxreturn from beginning to end on
(10:07):
paper and when it was done, Ihad to retroactively go and
break it apart on paper.
No calculators, no computercalculating the whole thing.
Now, not that because it was notavailable, because that's how
you understand.
So once we like, for example,in our world, because we work
with tax, it gets so much morecomplex.
Now I can't imagine doinganything on paper, like it would
(10:29):
be chaotic, but when we broughtthe computers in, we just had
to look at the same thing from anew angle.
It didn't get to be.
It got to be easier on someareas.
We just got to do more withwhat we had, and the laws are
more complex.
We're able to project differentthings in different ways.
So I feel like AI is doing thesame thing.
(10:50):
It's almost like giving us.
It's almost like you know wehave.
When you have real estate,you're selling a piece of real
estate.
Everybody used to have pictures.
The next level is like oh,we're going to do a 3D
walkthrough picture.
Now they're giving us a drone.
They're giving me the drone tosee around, which helps my
decision-making process so mucheasier, because I want to see
(11:12):
what's next to it, like is itthe forest?
It's like what's around it.
So AI, it's almost like now.
Instead of you looking at likea sniper little thing, oh, I'm
just looking at this little room, this little building.
Now I have a drone view and Iget to choose from each side, so
it's almost like a differentangle that gives you more
(11:34):
insight on the same thing.
You still have to discern.
You're not going to know how toread.
How many people are looking ata drone footage and they don't
know oh, oh, that's likewhatever sewage, oh, that's.
You know, you have likedifferent types of power, like
all these different things thatyou could look at.
People need to know how to readit, almost like you look at a
(11:55):
Google plot.
From you know up 10,000 footview, you're not going to know
Right.
From you know up 10,000 footview, you're not going to know
Right.
Heather (12:09):
It's funny you mentioned that, because I had a
deal recently where an attorneywas trying to read the drawings
and it uh, it removed the dealfrom the uh, from going forward
and then later, you know, wewere looking at it and it's like
no, he read it completely wrong, so they had to bring in an
architect to have it read.
So, to your point, everyone hastheir arena of expertise and
(12:31):
it's really important to utilizethose people for their various
skill sets, because it reallyrequires a team, and I think
sometimes people are under theimpression that one person can
do it all, and that reallycouldn't be further from the
truth.
It's handpicking that team sothat you can perform at your
best within each of thedifferent facets to have a great
(12:52):
deal, which also includes thetaxes, and I think a lot of
times, kind of like, the tax andthe attorney are somehow at the
end, and it's one of those.
No, they actually need to be inthe beginning as well.
Laura (13:07):
Yeah, and I'll give you an example.
You know, I see people slackingoff because of the AI and
everybody has ChatGPT on theirphones.
They have it everywhere.
You know, in the next year ortwo you're going to have the
same.
You have Alexa in your house.
You're going to talk to GPT totell you to find the next recipe
to whatever you want to do inthe house.
(13:28):
So it's going to be everywhere.
It's going to be incorporatedin our daily lives and people
are slacking off.
I'll give you a very simpleexample.
You know when somebody's lookingfor you know a piece of law.
The slacking piece begins whenyou don't want to read, you
don't want to digest, you don'twant to think, and that's the
last thing.
You want to outsource.
(13:49):
That intelligence power,whatever you want to call it,
cannot think for you.
You still have to be able tothink.
You can't outsource that, andif you're slacking off on the
thinking process, you will betaken advantage of and you will
be the dumbest person in theroom and it's just you and your
computer, and that's very sad.
Heather (14:12):
Well, I think it goes to what you said a little
earlier of when you werelearning of doing it all on
paper.
People need to.
I firmly believe people need tokeep really strong basics and I
learned that when I was inkarate back in the day of you.
You do all the fun flips andall of those high, high,
exciting types of moves, but youalways need solid basics and
(14:34):
that applies to any arena, fromtax to brokerage to investing
you name it and um, I agree it'sgoing to be something that will
have to be balanced and watched, and I've noticed, just even in
linkedin and also somedifferent emails, that it's like
come on you, you totally copied, chad, gpt, copy paste and put
(14:58):
it in.
And um, I think, like you said,there is going to be a shakeup
and then I think at some pointpeople will also learn that they
can't just copy paste and fullylean on AI.
They should still utilize theirmind and make it their own.
Laura (15:20):
So when I started the idea, we started on paper.
When we went on the computerversion, we had to put different
controls in place that you hadwhen you had on paper.
When we went from havingeverything done on paper, we
would have folders, we havecontrols, and controls is one
(15:41):
measure that would you knowchecks and balances, and I know
everybody hates that becauseonly accountants should have
checks and balances In yourhouse.
When winter comes, you have tohave checks and balances.
You're looking okay, am I allset?
When summer comes, am I all set?
There's different things inlife.
That you have checks andbalances, it's the same way.
You know when we went onelectronic or we went virtual.
(16:01):
Now we don't have a folder witha checkbox.
Say you check this, I did this,I did this.
So you have different controlsin place to verify the accuracy,
to verify data to look at,because it can still be.
You know you can have errors.
Human or computer, it can giveyou errors and it's not, because
you know they're both imperfect, even though AI can give you a
(16:24):
lot more, for you know thisfaster.
However, the AI will just bringdifferent controls in place and
once we learn, what kind ofcontrols do we have to put in
place before we deliver data,before we can give it up, and
I'll give you an example that Ireally really like Instead of
just jumping in.
And ChatGPT is a great tool.
I use it all the time, I loveit.
(16:45):
I mean, what am I going to say?
I talk to judging more than Italk to my husband, like right.
So, however, um, I reallybelieve that there are tools in
place and their software,different types of components
like research pieces that we wehave access to and these
companies have invested so muchin ai and it gives you that
intranet like that is doingresearch within the platform
(17:08):
that they have.
It's not external.
That is a very secure network.
I really like that.
For example, I like CCHresearch a lot.
It's just a tool in our spacefor tax research that if I need
to look at something, it's goingto look within the tax code,
it's going to look within thecourt cases that were showing up
interpretation everything isinside, not looking on all the
(17:30):
websites that can be completelyAI generated and completely, you
know, false information for thepublic.
So I think we just have to findthe controls.
Whatever we do, what kind ofcontrols do we need to put in
place to protect ourselves andthe people we serve.
It's really the most importantpiece, I believe.
Heather (17:48):
Definitely and along those lines, what is something
else that people need tounderstand about tax that may be
a frequent misconception orjust something that you really
want people to be aware of?
Laura (18:01):
Well, I'll give you a couple of things, and I love
stories because I live instories.
So many people migrated.
I have talked to so manycouples and families just this
year who left their careers,whatever it was.
Um, they thought real estate isgold and we're just gonna, you
(18:24):
know, hit a jackpot if we go inreal estate.
Real estate is veryunpredictable and you know
that's something that I'velearned that people can make a
lot one year and can makenothing the next two years.
It's very unpredictable, um,but there's no, there's no,
there's nothing that would stopyou to invest in what you want
to do, so you have to have aplan.
(18:45):
That's my first idea is like,just because you work for
somebody else doesn't mean it'sgoing to work for you, so you
have to have a plan plan A andplan B when you go into real
estate.
And number two that I reallythink a lot of people don't
understand is that even the goodthings too much of a good thing
can harm you.
I've seen so many people rightnow who have properties in
(19:06):
foreclosures that they haverecaptured because they have
bonus depreciation in 2021, 2022.
Now they're foreclosed and nowthey have phantom income on
their tax return.
They pay taxes on the propertythey lost.
That is very, very sad.
So too much of a good thing canbe a bad thing.
Heather (19:25):
Right, yeah that, that sounds very painful.
Laura (19:27):
It sounds very painful.
So you have to have a plan andyou have to be able to absorb
the best case scenario and theworst case scenario.
The best case I'm going to getout at 1.5 return, great Worst
case scenario I'm losing it all.
Can I absorb it?
Can I deal with that?
It's that black and white.
That kind of helps you put likelook at things into a
(19:49):
perspective that allows you tomake decisions in a really cold
manner without being emotionalabout it.
I think that's my two cents.
Like we could be on an extremevery, very easily when we go
into investments.
Heather (20:04):
Right and I think that's such an important point
because I see it a lot I'm sureyou do and other people do of
like build it.
They will come or take the leap.
You know like they're reallypersonifying.
You don't like your job, youshould be investing here and
you'll be on the beach andyou'll never lift a finger and
it's suddenly the good life atthe press of a button and it
(20:26):
doesn't work that way.
So I think your simple but yetprofound exercise look at the
upside, look to the downside,where are you from?
A risk tolerance and what canyou still sleep at night?
With right, it's reallyimportant.
So, as we transition to our lastquestion, this is the big one,
Laura of what does living fullymean to you?
Laura (20:50):
Well, that's a loaded question, Heather, really.
And you know I like to say Ilive fully.
And you know yes and no, youknow I like to do the things
that I enjoy, but at the sametime, you know, I have three
kids.
So living fully is, you know,again involving everybody else
around me.
So for me is living fully meansteaching my kids everything
(21:17):
that I can like, really, if Ican teach them everything that I
can.
And you know, some of you know,one or two of them are somewhat
teachable and one is does notwant to learn, which you know.
God knows how that's going toend up, but there's always has
to be one always.
Every family has to have one.
(21:37):
But the main idea for me isliving fully is I need to be
able to live beyond myself.
If I go and make a lot of money, I spend a lot of money and
just have a lot of fun.
I just don't leave anythingbehind.
I'm more of a legacy typeperson that just like to leave
something behind and thatsomething is investing in my
kids because I want them to beequipped.
(22:00):
I don't want them to bedeceived by the society, by the
laws.
Here's a president giving apiece of law.
Here's another president givinganother piece of law.
Here's this political party,here's another political.
There's so much deception goingaround and it's very hard to
discern what's right and what'swrong.
And if I can teach them how tothink, how to process
(22:22):
information, I don't have theanswers.
I can tell them.
This is the best way.
I can only teach them how toprocess information, how to
think for themselves and not tobe deceived by the system in
choosing one path or another.
Yes, you can go this way, justknow what's ahead, right.
So my investment living fullyis if I can do that for my
(22:44):
family and I, I think I've liveda full life.
Heather (22:46):
I would agree with that .
Laura (22:48):
Because I have material.
I mean how much more Like, howmuch more?
It's just, it's a very finiteroad on the material section.
So, living fully, what does itlike I don't have any more to
acquire to make me happier?
But that would make me veryfulfilled and I feel like I
leave something behind in mykids.
Heather (23:09):
I love that.
It's the gift that gives Laura.
Laura (23:11):
It's the gift that gives, so yeah, Well, perfect.
Heather (23:15):
How can people connect with you to learn more about the
tax structure strategies thatyou have?
Laura (23:22):
Yeah, um, as a matter of fact, we're having a webinar
about this one big, beautifulbill.
It's very in-depth.
We're going to have the webinarprobably in a couple of weeks.
I have a website where they canjoin and I think it's join.
Let me give you the exact one.
It's joinmycpaprocom, and theycan sign up for the webinar.
(23:48):
We'll go in a lot of differentdetails.
We're going to give examples.
We're going to have some Q&A.
At the end it probably will belonger than an hour because it's
a big bill.
So that will be great, and justjoin us on the webinar.
I think it's a great way to see.
Everybody will be affectedindividuals, business owners,
investors In this bill.
There's so much for everyone togo around, so that would be a
(24:13):
great way to see what we'redoing and to see how can you
connect with us further.
Heather (24:15):
Perfect Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me
today.
It was a true pleasureconnecting with you.
Laura (24:21):
Yes, thank you so much for having me, heather.
Heather (24:27):
You bet.
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown.
I am your host, Heather Ewing,and today.
I have none other than LauraDonis, Laura welcome.
Laura (00:15):
Yes, thank you for having me.
Heather, Beautiful day.
Heather (00:19):
Definitely, and from what I understand, you are
across the country working rightnow.
Laura (00:27):
I'm across the ocean at this moment, but, yeah, I'm
coming back home.
I've been away for two monthsand you know as nice it is to
travel.
There's no place like home, soyou know.
I'm looking forward to comeback on US soil next week.
So yeah, absolutely.
Heather (00:47):
Perfect.
Well, we've been connectingthrough LinkedIn for about a
year year and a half and I knowyou have amazing tax strategies
and that's really your expertise.
Share with our audience alittle bit more about your
background, who you are aboutyour background, who you are.
Laura (01:10):
Yeah well, I am a CPA, who you know.
I think tax found me more thanI found in the tax world.
You know I loved law more thananything else and you know, if
someone would ask me how did Ibegin, I'd probably begin when I
was 10, 12 years old, readingcontracts and, as boring as it
sounds, that was very attractiveto me.
For some reason I got so pulledinto reading the contracts,
like purchase agreements orbuy-sell agreements.
(01:31):
You know my dad was in allkinds of businesses and
purchasing and all that, so thatfor me was pleasure to just
read the contracts, which soundsso boring.
So you know, obviously,contracts, which sounds so
boring.
So you know, obviously I gotinto the accounting world at a
very, very young age and I gotinto tax, probably by accident.
I was just fascinated.
I came to the United Statesabout 25 years ago and the tax
(01:56):
world just pulled me in and Igot a second job and then I got
another job.
It's like, oh, this tax worldis just more fascinating and
most fascinating.
And I got into representingbusiness owners and investors
into tax audits, which is suchan amazing field and I find that
very few CPAs or tax preparerof any kinds, have that
(02:20):
experience and the knowledge ofhow do you defend the position,
which kind of bridge between thelegal aspect of what I love and
the accounting and tax worldright and getting into how do
you defend a position.
After about 3,000 casesface-to-face with the IRS, I
realized that I want to be onthe other end of the road where
(02:41):
we can project what we want todo and we can project the
defendability of your positionbefore you even go into a
contract, before you even getinto a deal, before you even buy
the investment, before you makethat decision.
So I know it was a very longanswer, but it's a great deal
because once you understand that, you can project what your
(03:02):
outcome and what your exit wouldbe from the beginning.
That's why I get attracted toall of this.
So you know, we've built avirtual firm throughout the
United States serving clientsall over the US and just doing
that tax planning, which islooking ahead and projecting the
exit.
If I'm buying a building, how amI going to exit?
If I'm buying a business, howam I going to exit?
(03:23):
If I get married, how am Igoing to exit?
If I get married, how am Igoing to exit.
That was a joke, um, you know,but there's always an exit, like
there, the joke or not, there'salways an exit.
People don't realize it becauseyou can exit on your terms or
you can exit because you have toexit and you're not ready.
So, regardless, I mean, I thinkthe only one we don't have an
exit is kids.
If someone has an exit for kids, I know, I know that crossed
(03:49):
the line.
Heather (03:50):
Yeah, I know that crossed the line a little bit.
Laura (03:53):
It's just one of those things because you keep
investing, investing, investingand there's just no payback.
Maybe I'm still in the trenches, who knows if somebody has seen
the growth and they're actually.
We'll see.
We have hope.
Great, that never leaves us.
That's the journey, yeah.
Heather (04:09):
Definitely Well, and I think what you mentioned too is
I've always said you have tohave the end in sight before you
begin Any type of rigorousplanning.
You really want to be effective.
You want to utilize your energy, your time, your resources in
the best way.
So I love that you take thatvantage point and lens on it.
How did you get into, you know,the mindset for tax?
(04:33):
right Because like you said,there's not many young kids that
are intrigued by reading thesereports and different things
like that.
What do you think it is about?
Mindset.
Laura (04:42):
Not only that sparked your attention as a young child,
but has brought you to whereyou're at, helping people all
across the nation yeah, well, um, I think we have to kind of
take two pieces and I had aconversation um, today, um, and
it was very interesting thatsome people you have to, you
have to understand yourself andsome people never get the
(05:05):
understanding of who they are,what they really want, what
triggers them.
And, um, maybe I'm a more of alogical type of personality and,
as a person, I don't get, youknow, aroused by the adventure
necessarily of going and, youknow, jumping or bungee jumping
or doing, like, you know, goingoff road, it's not really, you
(05:27):
know, giving my adrenaline, andfor myself, the adrenaline is
like oh, this is a new businessmodel, this is an investment
model.
You do this and you get likecompound interest.
Are you kidding me?
Is that the most amazing?
So, call it nerd, call itwhatever you, you know we might
call it Like that's what sparkedmy interest as a kid.
And I'm looking at my businessowners because I'm serving
(05:49):
business owners and I'm servingthe investors that are building
businesses.
We have to understand that ifyou don't have that mental like
attractiveness to the numbers ordoing the math, or this model
or the statistics of what'sgoing to happen, you have to
realize where you need to hirethe right people or partner with
(06:12):
the right people.
So I mean, will everybody havethe same mindset of doing the
calculations and just doing thenerdy stuff?
I enjoy it.
It just sounds very boring.
It's not boring to me, like Iget mentally aroused by oh, this
is so cool, this is a new law.
How amazing this new law is.
How many people can you go fora coffee chat and having that
(06:34):
conversation?
Right, right, that's wherethey're like.
Heather (06:37):
Thank God for Laura.
Laura (06:39):
But, but it's, it's and it's, it's not.
It's so beautiful because whatI realized is that understanding
that we have limitations allowsus to partner with the right
people.
If I'm going buying a piece ofreal estate, I'm not going to go
and buy my own real estate.
I have a list of what I wantand I'm going to go to the right
person who can get the thingdone for me.
(06:59):
I just came, I was telling you,I came from a site.
They're building right now anew building and we went to see.
You know it's like the wholework in progress.
You know they're on the fourthlevel of build and all of that,
and I was looking at it.
I went with the list yeah, Iwant this, this, this.
Do I need to be nerding on the?
(07:21):
How do you build?
What do you put this?
How many outlets?
How's the electricity?
What kind of purpose do youneed?
I don't really care, it's notmy thing.
That's somebody else's hotspotwhere they can shine.
So I believe that we, you knowin the whole mindset is
understanding what makes youhappy and what gives you the
(07:43):
most joy.
That's where you can reallyhave the highest impact.
Because if I would do, I don'tknow how somebody can do this.
Just for what?
For money?
It just doesn't make any sense.
Heather (07:55):
I don't I don't think it's possible to your point when
you look around.
That's where I say some peopleare dead in the eyes and anytime
, whichever city that peopletypically finish their work day
it's 5, 530 here in Madison,wisconsin, but you'll just see
(08:19):
it like the eyes are glazed overand they're physically
breathing, but they are sotapped out and I think that's
the unfortunate thing is whatyou're sharing, too is it's all
a story that everyone plays intheir head and it does require a
lot of energy.
It requires a lot of suffering,really, which I think is
unfortunate.
So I love that you identifiedit early and that remains true
(08:41):
for you of your area ofexpertise, and I agree, laura,
that each of us individually, Ifeel like we have a duty to
ourselves and all of life toreally understand who we are,
what we are, align that and toreally serve at our highest
function, Because otherwise, ifyou think about it, you're
shorting yourself and everyoneelse and not living to your
(09:04):
potential.
So I think that's such a hugepoint.
I appreciate you bringing thatup With everything that's
happening and you think of AI,right?
How do you see that affectingtaxes and what you do?
Laura (09:22):
Well, I love it, you know , for one, it just makes things
easier.
And the same way, when thingsare becoming easier, we can
slack.
And I don't think AI meansyou're going to slack off, and I
think a lot of people aresaying, oh, we're going to lose
our jobs.
Might as well, not do anything.
Might as well, just you know,just hand your tools and we're
(09:46):
done here, whereas I see theopportunities that it can bring
and, you know, kind of puttingdifferent controls in place.
And if I'm thinking like when Ilearned, you know, tax
preparation, we learned it onpaper and it's just very
interesting.
It was just on paper and it'sjust very interesting.
It was just, it was just onpaper.
I had to be able to do a taxreturn from beginning to end on
(10:07):
paper and when it was done, Ihad to retroactively go and
break it apart on paper.
No calculators, no computercalculating the whole thing.
Now, not that because it was notavailable, because that's how
you understand.
So once we like, for example,in our world, because we work
with tax, it gets so much morecomplex.
Now I can't imagine doinganything on paper, like it would
(10:29):
be chaotic, but when we broughtthe computers in, we just had
to look at the same thing from anew angle.
It didn't get to be.
It got to be easier on someareas.
We just got to do more withwhat we had, and the laws are
more complex.
We're able to project differentthings in different ways.
So I feel like AI is doing thesame thing.
(10:50):
It's almost like giving us.
It's almost like you know wehave.
When you have real estate,you're selling a piece of real
estate.
Everybody used to have pictures.
The next level is like oh,we're going to do a 3D
walkthrough picture.
Now they're giving us a drone.
They're giving me the drone tosee around, which helps my
decision-making process so mucheasier, because I want to see
(11:12):
what's next to it, like is itthe forest?
It's like what's around it.
So AI, it's almost like now.
Instead of you looking at likea sniper little thing, oh, I'm
just looking at this little room, this little building.
Now I have a drone view and Iget to choose from each side, so
it's almost like a differentangle that gives you more
(11:34):
insight on the same thing.
You still have to discern.
You're not going to know how toread.
How many people are looking ata drone footage and they don't
know oh, oh, that's likewhatever sewage, oh, that's.
You know, you have likedifferent types of power, like
all these different things thatyou could look at.
People need to know how to readit, almost like you look at a
(11:55):
Google plot.
From you know up 10,000 footview, you're not going to know
Right.
From you know up 10,000 footview, you're not going to know
Right.
Heather (12:09):
It's funny you mentioned that, because I had a
deal recently where an attorneywas trying to read the drawings
and it uh, it removed the dealfrom the uh, from going forward
and then later, you know, wewere looking at it and it's like
no, he read it completely wrong, so they had to bring in an
architect to have it read.
So, to your point, everyone hastheir arena of expertise and
(12:31):
it's really important to utilizethose people for their various
skill sets, because it reallyrequires a team, and I think
sometimes people are under theimpression that one person can
do it all, and that reallycouldn't be further from the
truth.
It's handpicking that team sothat you can perform at your
best within each of thedifferent facets to have a great
(12:52):
deal, which also includes thetaxes, and I think a lot of
times, kind of like, the tax andthe attorney are somehow at the
end, and it's one of those.
No, they actually need to be inthe beginning as well.
Laura (13:07):
Yeah, and I'll give you an example.
You know, I see people slackingoff because of the AI and
everybody has ChatGPT on theirphones.
They have it everywhere.
You know, in the next year ortwo you're going to have the
same.
You have Alexa in your house.
You're going to talk to GPT totell you to find the next recipe
to whatever you want to do inthe house.
(13:28):
So it's going to be everywhere.
It's going to be incorporatedin our daily lives and people
are slacking off.
I'll give you a very simpleexample.
You know when somebody's lookingfor you know a piece of law.
The slacking piece begins whenyou don't want to read, you
don't want to digest, you don'twant to think, and that's the
last thing.
You want to outsource.
(13:49):
That intelligence power,whatever you want to call it,
cannot think for you.
You still have to be able tothink.
You can't outsource that, andif you're slacking off on the
thinking process, you will betaken advantage of and you will
be the dumbest person in theroom and it's just you and your
computer, and that's very sad.
Heather (14:12):
Well, I think it goes to what you said a little
earlier of when you werelearning of doing it all on
paper.
People need to.
I firmly believe people need tokeep really strong basics and I
learned that when I was inkarate back in the day of you.
You do all the fun flips andall of those high, high,
exciting types of moves, but youalways need solid basics and
(14:34):
that applies to any arena, fromtax to brokerage to investing
you name it and um, I agree it'sgoing to be something that will
have to be balanced and watched, and I've noticed, just even in
linkedin and also somedifferent emails, that it's like
come on you, you totally copied, chad, gpt, copy paste and put
(14:58):
it in.
And um, I think, like you said,there is going to be a shakeup
and then I think at some pointpeople will also learn that they
can't just copy paste and fullylean on AI.
They should still utilize theirmind and make it their own.
Laura (15:20):
So when I started the idea, we started on paper.
When we went on the computerversion, we had to put different
controls in place that you hadwhen you had on paper.
When we went from havingeverything done on paper, we
would have folders, we havecontrols, and controls is one
(15:41):
measure that would you knowchecks and balances, and I know
everybody hates that becauseonly accountants should have
checks and balances In yourhouse.
When winter comes, you have tohave checks and balances.
You're looking okay, am I allset?
When summer comes, am I all set?
There's different things inlife.
That you have checks andbalances, it's the same way.
You know when we went onelectronic or we went virtual.
(16:01):
Now we don't have a folder witha checkbox.
Say you check this, I did this,I did this.
So you have different controlsin place to verify the accuracy,
to verify data to look at,because it can still be.
You know you can have errors.
Human or computer, it can giveyou errors and it's not, because
you know they're both imperfect, even though AI can give you a
(16:24):
lot more, for you know thisfaster.
However, the AI will just bringdifferent controls in place and
once we learn, what kind ofcontrols do we have to put in
place before we deliver data,before we can give it up, and
I'll give you an example that Ireally really like Instead of
just jumping in.
And ChatGPT is a great tool.
I use it all the time, I loveit.
(16:45):
I mean, what am I going to say?
I talk to judging more than Italk to my husband, like right.
So, however, um, I reallybelieve that there are tools in
place and their software,different types of components
like research pieces that we wehave access to and these
companies have invested so muchin ai and it gives you that
intranet like that is doingresearch within the platform
(17:08):
that they have.
It's not external.
That is a very secure network.
I really like that.
For example, I like CCHresearch a lot.
It's just a tool in our spacefor tax research that if I need
to look at something, it's goingto look within the tax code,
it's going to look within thecourt cases that were showing up
interpretation everything isinside, not looking on all the
(17:30):
websites that can be completelyAI generated and completely, you
know, false information for thepublic.
So I think we just have to findthe controls.
Whatever we do, what kind ofcontrols do we need to put in
place to protect ourselves andthe people we serve.
It's really the most importantpiece, I believe.
Heather (17:48):
Definitely and along those lines, what is something
else that people need tounderstand about tax that may be
a frequent misconception orjust something that you really
want people to be aware of?
Laura (18:01):
Well, I'll give you a couple of things, and I love
stories because I live instories.
So many people migrated.
I have talked to so manycouples and families just this
year who left their careers,whatever it was.
Um, they thought real estate isgold and we're just gonna, you
(18:24):
know, hit a jackpot if we go inreal estate.
Real estate is veryunpredictable and you know
that's something that I'velearned that people can make a
lot one year and can makenothing the next two years.
It's very unpredictable, um,but there's no, there's no,
there's nothing that would stopyou to invest in what you want
to do, so you have to have aplan.
(18:45):
That's my first idea is like,just because you work for
somebody else doesn't mean it'sgoing to work for you, so you
have to have a plan plan A andplan B when you go into real
estate.
And number two that I reallythink a lot of people don't
understand is that even the goodthings too much of a good thing
can harm you.
I've seen so many people rightnow who have properties in
(19:06):
foreclosures that they haverecaptured because they have
bonus depreciation in 2021, 2022.
Now they're foreclosed and nowthey have phantom income on
their tax return.
They pay taxes on the propertythey lost.
That is very, very sad.
So too much of a good thing canbe a bad thing.
Heather (19:25):
Right, yeah that, that sounds very painful.
Laura (19:27):
It sounds very painful.
So you have to have a plan andyou have to be able to absorb
the best case scenario and theworst case scenario.
The best case I'm going to getout at 1.5 return, great Worst
case scenario I'm losing it all.
Can I absorb it?
Can I deal with that?
It's that black and white.
That kind of helps you put likelook at things into a
(19:49):
perspective that allows you tomake decisions in a really cold
manner without being emotionalabout it.
I think that's my two cents.
Like we could be on an extremevery, very easily when we go
into investments.
Heather (20:04):
Right and I think that's such an important point
because I see it a lot I'm sureyou do and other people do of
like build it.
They will come or take the leap.
You know like they're reallypersonifying.
You don't like your job, youshould be investing here and
you'll be on the beach andyou'll never lift a finger and
it's suddenly the good life atthe press of a button and it
(20:26):
doesn't work that way.
So I think your simple but yetprofound exercise look at the
upside, look to the downside,where are you from?
A risk tolerance and what canyou still sleep at night?
With right, it's reallyimportant.
So, as we transition to our lastquestion, this is the big one,
Laura of what does living fullymean to you?
Laura (20:50):
Well, that's a loaded question, Heather, really.
And you know I like to say Ilive fully.
And you know yes and no, youknow I like to do the things
that I enjoy, but at the sametime, you know, I have three
kids.
So living fully is, you know,again involving everybody else
around me.
So for me is living fully meansteaching my kids everything
(21:17):
that I can like, really, if Ican teach them everything that I
can.
And you know, some of you know,one or two of them are somewhat
teachable and one is does notwant to learn, which you know.
God knows how that's going toend up, but there's always has
to be one always.
Every family has to have one.
(21:37):
But the main idea for me isliving fully is I need to be
able to live beyond myself.
If I go and make a lot of money, I spend a lot of money and
just have a lot of fun.
I just don't leave anythingbehind.
I'm more of a legacy typeperson that just like to leave
something behind and thatsomething is investing in my
kids because I want them to beequipped.
(22:00):
I don't want them to bedeceived by the society, by the
laws.
Here's a president giving apiece of law.
Here's another president givinganother piece of law.
Here's this political party,here's another political.
There's so much deception goingaround and it's very hard to
discern what's right and what'swrong.
And if I can teach them how tothink, how to process
(22:22):
information, I don't have theanswers.
I can tell them.
This is the best way.
I can only teach them how toprocess information, how to
think for themselves and not tobe deceived by the system in
choosing one path or another.
Yes, you can go this way, justknow what's ahead, right.
So my investment living fullyis if I can do that for my
(22:44):
family and I, I think I've liveda full life.
Heather (22:46):
I would agree with that .
Laura (22:48):
Because I have material.
I mean how much more Like, howmuch more?
It's just, it's a very finiteroad on the material section.
So, living fully, what does itlike I don't have any more to
acquire to make me happier?
But that would make me veryfulfilled and I feel like I
leave something behind in mykids.
Heather (23:09):
I love that.
It's the gift that gives Laura.
Laura (23:11):
It's the gift that gives, so yeah, Well, perfect.
Heather (23:15):
How can people connect with you to learn more about the
tax structure strategies thatyou have?
Laura (23:22):
Yeah, um, as a matter of fact, we're having a webinar
about this one big, beautifulbill.
It's very in-depth.
We're going to have the webinarprobably in a couple of weeks.
I have a website where they canjoin and I think it's join.
Let me give you the exact one.
It's joinmycpaprocom, and theycan sign up for the webinar.
(23:48):
We'll go in a lot of differentdetails.
We're going to give examples.
We're going to have some Q&A.
At the end it probably will belonger than an hour because it's
a big bill.
So that will be great, and justjoin us on the webinar.
I think it's a great way to see.
Everybody will be affectedindividuals, business owners,
investors In this bill.
There's so much for everyone togo around, so that would be a
(24:13):
great way to see what we'redoing and to see how can you
connect with us further.
Heather (24:15):
Perfect Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me
today.
It was a true pleasureconnecting with you.
Laura (24:21):
Yes, thank you so much for having me, heather.
Heather (24:27):
You bet.
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