September 29, 2021 • 35 mins
1. How can we help women get rid of debt in a sustainable and less stressful way?
2. What are the tangible habits or tips that can help us get out of debt sustainably?
Did you know that Americans carry student debt in the trillions of dollars and that women bear the burden of most of it? Coupled with the pandemic, the weight and stress of carrying debt has become worse for women and made it even more difficult to save for retirement, emergency funds, and pay for healthcare. So what can we do to turn this situation around for women?
In this episode, I sat down with Katy Almstrom, a financial coach, teacher, and speaker who works with women who are ready to pay off their debt in a sustainable way. We discuss her journey to becoming debt-free and the actionable tips that women can implement to get rid of their debt in a sustainable, and yes, joyful way!
Whether it's student, credit card, medical, or any other type of debt, we hope you come away with the knowledge and information you need to pay off your debt and learn to live debt-free.
Get access to Katy's must-have FREE guide to help you in your journey to a debt-free life. Details available at the end of our podcast conversation.
Subscribe to HerCanvas today to get your answers to the questions that matter most to you, and ultimately, find the inspiration to live your best life.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Americans carry a whopping 1.7 trillion Institute
in debt of that women,especially women of color bear,
the burden of most of it, 929billion, which is two thirds of
the nation's student debt.
According to the Americanassociation of university women,
black women carry about 20% moredebt on average than white
(00:22):
women, or more than any othergroup, the pandemic has made it
even worse with women losingmore jobs than men due to lack
of childcare and being in thehardest hit industries, coupled
with earning less income due tothe gender pay gap, which is
also wider for women of colorand then paid maternity leave.
It's no surprise.
Women's struggle to repay theirdebt, the ramifications of
(00:45):
carrying more debt and theinability to pay it off a dire.
It means women do not haveenough money to save for
retirement.
Emergency funds, auto pay forhealthcare.
No wonder women are stressedout.
So what can we do to turn thissituation around for women?
How can we help women get rid ofdebt in a sustainable and less
(01:06):
stressful way?
What are the tangible habits ortips that can help us get out of
debt sustainably?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hey everyone, welcome to her canvas podcast, where we
discuss the topics that mattermost to women and help us find
the inspiration to live our bestlives.
I'm your host Janita curanderatoday I'm joined by Katie
Armstrong.
Katie is a financial coach,teacher and speaker who works
with women who are ready to payoff that debt in a sustainable
(01:45):
way with over a decade ofexperience in teaching and
coaching combined with her owndebt free journey and simplified
life.
Katie provides a unique servicefor our clients to help them
slow down, map out their ownjoyful debt-free journey and
create a life that has way lessstress around money.
Like many of us Katie hasexperienced the stress that
(02:06):
comes along with carrying debtwith a student loan or credit
card debt.
The burden of debt can beunbearable.
And the idea of paying it offcan feel unattainable.
She's here today to share herjourney, to becoming debt free
and to provide actionable tipsthat women can implement to get
rid of their debt in asustainable and joyful way.
(02:29):
Welcome to the show, Katie.
I'm so excited to have you ontoday.
I'm
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So happy to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Oh, I'm, I'm really happy to have you.
Maybe you can start by tellingus more about your background
and your journey to becoming afinancial coach, teacher and
speaker.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Absolutely.
So, you know, it's really funnybecause when I decided to start
this journey of being afinancial coach, I was at the
time a high school Latinteacher, and I was a coach.
I was a college advisor.
And so when I announced toeveryone, I'm going to be a
financial coach, I'm going tohelp women get out of debt.
(03:11):
They were so confused because itwas such a different, um, kind
of, uh, path than what I wasdoing as a teacher.
But the thing is, you know, whenI was in my mid twenties, I had
a lot of credit card debt hadabout$20,000 in credit card
debt.
And I know for some people, 3000feels like a lot 80,000 feels
(03:33):
like a lot, no matter whatyou're carrying and credit card
debt, it feels like a burden.
It is a burden, right?
And it feels like a lot to us.
So for me,$20,000 in credit carddebt felt like a lot.
I also had student loans that Iwas working on paying off and I
had some medical debt.
So I was 24, 25 years old.
(03:56):
I was working as a brand newteacher, making very little
income and feeling this burdenof the debt feeling at that
time.
And I know a lot of us, you know, go through this in our early
twenties, mid twenties, gosh,even into our thirties and
wonder, are we going to makemore money?
Are we going to grow?
Are we going to grow into biggercareers?
(04:19):
Are we going to make progress?
And am I going to be able totake care of this thing?
Am I going to be able to handlethis debt that I have?
And for me, I really felt like Iwasn't going to be able to
handle it.
And so I was caught up in thiscycle of well, because I'm
always going to be in debt.
(04:39):
I might just want to use mycredit cards.
So I might as well go out todinner and put it on a credit
card.
I might as well, like, forgetabout having a budget.
I mean, this is just how my lifewas going to be in it kind of
accepted it for a time, whichwas really, which was really
hard.
That was really heavy.
And, um, basically I hit a 0.1day where enough was enough and
(05:00):
I needed to do somethingdifferently about the debt.
So I did, I found a program thathad, step-by-step really sort
of, what do you focus on first?
What do you do next?
And I really gravitated towardsthat.
That felt really good to me atthe time that was my personality
type.
And that was just the, you know,I was single, I was on my own.
(05:23):
I had the capacity to really dothis by myself.
Um, and for me that was what wasexciting sort of going for this
new goal, working a plan thatwas laid out for me.
Um, and so that was my journey.
I took about two years to payoff all of my debt.
I worked my butt off and I had,you know, and that doesn't work
(05:46):
for everybody.
You know, my journey was myjourney, my circumstances at the
time or my circumstances.
Um, I babysat, I dog sat, Ihouse sat.
I, you know, did all this sortof behind the scenes jobs I
could, when I wasn't teaching, Ihad, I had a support system
around me.
You know, my boyfriend at thetime would take me out to
(06:06):
dinner.
And so I had a very supportivesystem around me and people
encouraging me.
And I was, you know, I wasreally just motivated by the
results that I started to seeearly on.
So it was, it was, uh, you know,I talk about becoming debt free
joyfully.
It was a joyful journey for me.
I was excited by the progress.
(06:30):
I was excited by the sort ofidea that things would change
for me.
Things were changing for me,those initial first steps I took
just that it really shifted mymindset around my future with
money and how quickly things canchange when you decide to
change.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Wow.
What a great journey.
Thank you for sharing that.
Katie, you know, some, you know,something that struck me
actually, while you were talkingabout your background is this
idea of joy, right?
The idea, because when you thinkdebt and trying to get rid of
debt, you don't think of, ofjoy, but then the more I think
about it, the more I think,well, you know, it's already
(07:09):
stressful carrying the burden ofdebt.
Why do we want to add the stressof now trying to pay it off?
Why not find a way that you can,uh, try to, to get rid of it in
a way that doesn't cause youadditional stress.
So I, I'm really excited to hearmore, more about that because we
(07:31):
can change the trajectory of howpeople approach that and how to
get rid of it.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You know, I think you, you said it already, I
mean, this idea that it shouldbe joyful does seem
counterintuitive, but that is,that is the truth.
You're not, you're not joyful inyour current circumstances and
not to say that some peoplearen't completely joyful and
their circumstances, thisinterview probably isn't for
(07:58):
you.
If you're sitting with debt andyou're, you know, pretty happy
about it.
But you know, for, for a lot of,for a lot of women, the reality
is they're, they're carryingdebt and they're not happy about
it.
There's no joy around that.
And so the idea is I believethat there is a path.
I believe that there's a journeyfor every single one of us to
(08:22):
pay off debt in a way that feelsbetter than what we're
experiencing right now.
And it comes down to a really,there's a couple of things that
I see again and again and again.
And one that, one of the mostimportant things is that we
haven't yet decided that we aregoing to go on this journey,
(08:42):
right?
We haven't committed to it.
And a lot of that just has to dowith our faith in ourselves to
take the steps every day that itrequires.
Um, and so like anytransformation in our lives,
whether it's the way we takecare of our bodies, right?
With exercise or how we eat,whether it is our intimate
relationships and how muchenergy and effort we pour into
(09:05):
those, it takes time.
Nothing really transformsovernight, but you can take
certain steps that do feel likea major shift is happening.
And there are there's, you know,these initial, these wins that
we experienced that feels sogood and keep us motivated.
(09:26):
And so I think that's where thejoy comes in is when we commit
to something and we allowourselves to have those early
wins, which really justreinforced, you know, this, this
faith that we can take a stepand we can feel success, and
then we can take the next stepand feel success.
Um, but that truly takes acommitment and a willingness to
(09:48):
keep trying until we have thoseearly wins.
So that's one thing.
The other thing that I find sooften is that we, we don't go on
to step free journey.
We don't commit to thisdebt-free journey.
We don't feel the joy because nomatter what we try to, you know,
in terms of the pain off thedebt, whatever we try to pay off
(10:10):
the debt, we haven't yet learnedhow to live without debt.
And so we might feel reallyexcited to make a big payment on
our credit card.
Or we might say, I'm going toknock out this, you know, this
little student loan in the nextsix months, like that's really
great, but if you haven'tfigured out a way to live
(10:32):
without new debt consistentlyweek over week, month over
month, any time you then usedebt again, even when you're
trying to pay off that, it justfeels like we're going one step
forward and then two steps back.
Or we just feel the weight ofit.
Even if you just have, you know,you might have Netflix or Hulu
(10:54):
Disney plus, right?
All the little things get audit.
They automatically go on yourcredit card every month, even
though you're not actively goingand spending money, you still,
you, you are using the card.
You are seeing those purchases.
You are, you feel the burden ofit, no matter how little.
And so something I like to dowith my clients is really say,
(11:17):
okay, let's forget about thisdebt.
We want to pay off just for aminute.
And let's really commit toliving for the next few months
without using debt, withoutusing our credit cards, without
adding to it whatsoever.
Even if you're paying it all offevery month, how can we build up
that faith in ourselves build upthat evidence that we can live
(11:38):
month over month without debt.
Because that truly is what beingdebt free is that is living a
debt free lifestyle when you areno longer using debt.
So that is oftentimes somethingthat people miss.
They don't put enough energyaround.
They don't put the effort intothat commitment into those
habits.
And so any effort to actuallypaying off the debt, just, it
(12:01):
feels kind of pointless.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Wow.
I love that.
I love so much of what you said.
Um, I love the whole idea ofcommitting to something and then
celebrating the wins.
The small wins.
I find that when you celebratewins, that it is an amazing
motivator.
Like you said, um, even thetiniest win can make you feel
(12:27):
like, oh, I can do this.
And then I hadn't really thoughtabout, you know, what?
You said, that even if you'repaying it off every month, if
you're continuing to use it,then you don't feel like you're
making any headway.
I can see how we don't look atit that way.
And the, and how important it isto actually start looking at it
(12:47):
that way, which, um, leads meinto my next question.
What happens when the debt freejourney is not approached
sustainably?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Oh, that's a great question.
You know, something that one ofmy coaches has said time, and
again, is the way youexperienced the journey is the
way that you're going toexperience the outcome or the
result of that journey.
And so what that means is let'ssay you are trying to pay off
(13:18):
debt and you really cut outeverything in your life.
Everything that makes you happyand you are just plugging away
every single month saying, youknow, we're never going to step
foot in a restaurant.
We're never gonna, um, you know,we're never going to sign the
kids up for an activity.
(13:38):
We're not going on any vacation,not even a weekend away, you
know, by car, we're not doinganything.
All we're allowed to do is payoff this step, that journey,
that restriction and that amountof just frustration and focus
that that takes is going to, ifyou even pay off all your debt
(14:00):
that way, and not many people dothat, you know, that focus that
determined.
Um, and I, I want to quicklysay, you know, focus is really
important, no matter what yourjourney is, but I guess what I'm
saying is sort of that focus ononly paying off debt and doing
it, really doing nothing else.
We get to the end and we nolonger know how to spend money
(14:24):
appropriately.
We don't know.
And I've had this happen withclients before where they really
do almost go too fast.
And when they get to the endthere, they're scared to spend
money on anything they feel asif they don't have a goal to
(14:45):
work towards with their moneyanymore.
And they feel very lost.
And so I think where we reallyhave to think about
sustainability, because numberone, we want to enjoy the
process.
We want to enjoy the journeywhen you become debt free, your
money journey is not over.
(15:05):
I mean, debt debt, freedom is aworthy goal.
I support the debt free journey,but it is not the last piece.
There's, there's, there's morethere.
There's more after the debt freejourney.
And if you have not cultivatedthese habits and behaviors that
we've talked about, right, in away that makes it joyful in a
(15:28):
way, in a way where you aremaking the most important parts
of your lives, the prioritypaying off debt should never be
the number one priority.
Um, and so a lot of times I'llmeet with a couple and they're
worried about their marriage.
I mean, they're, they're really,their marriages is on the rocks
(15:50):
and they just think, uh, or oneperson might think, right.
If we just pay off the debt, ifwe just pay off the debt,
believe me paying off the debtis not the answer.
So how are we making sure thatwe prioritize the marriage, or
if we have a child in need, howdo we prioritize, you know, our
child, if we are really focusedon our health right now, because
(16:12):
we've had some health scares, mygosh, let's put that debt free
journey a bit on hold.
Let's focus on the health.
Let's focus on healthy habits.
Let's focus on living withoutdebt, but we don't necessarily
have to attack the debt that is,you know, that we're holding
onto right now.
If, if there's something elsethat's more important.
(16:33):
So I think the sustainabilitypiece is so key because some
people think that you have tojust pay it off as quickly as
possible.
And I'll be honest.
I felt that way for a time.
Um, this was pre COVID.
This was, you know, when I wasyoung and single and didn't have
children, I mean, my journey, mycircumstances allowed me to just
(16:56):
kind of quickly do it, but thatis not the answer for every
woman.
And so sustainability to memeans that when we get to the
end of the debt-free journey,we're excited about the next
step we are feeling good.
We are, we're ready to spendmoney in a healthy way.
(17:17):
We have been practicing spendingmoney in a healthy way.
And we aren't going to justcompletely kind of like binge on
spending or, you know, w wehaven't been so restricted and
so sort of scared of spendingmoney that we now have to
unravel that and figure out theappropriate ways to behave with
(17:40):
money after we pay off the debt.
So that's where I see a lack ofsustainability, really making
the journey not enjoyable.
And we might just go right backto where we started, if we're
not careful how we approach thejourney and how we approach
paying off debt.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Gosh, that is amazing.
That whole idea ofsustainability and the approach
to the debt-free journey.
I've never heard of it spokenabout this way, but it makes
sense.
And it actually made me think ofhealthy eating, like when people
decide or when we decide aswomen that want to change by
(18:22):
eating habits, you know, we wantto, um, change a lifestyle.
A lot of times you see thewomen, you know, deny themselves
everything.
I'm just going to go on thisdiet and I'm going to eat all
the healthy stuff that they'retelling me to eat.
And I'm not, I'm going to stayaway from anything that I enjoy
(18:43):
any type of food that I enjoy.
And they go on this journey andsure enough, you know, maybe
they lose the weight that theywant to lose and they look how
they want to look.
And it does last and it doesn'tlast because it is not
enjoyable.
Right?
And to your point aboutforgetting how to spend money
appropriately, it's the same wayforgetting how to eat, right?
(19:07):
Because you have deniedyourself, all of these things,
all of a sudden, you're like,okay, now when you're done with
your diet or whatever, how do Ieat?
How do I sustain it?
And for a lot of women, theytend to go backwards, right?
Where you put back on all theweight, or you go back to eating
all the stuff that you didn'twant to eat.
And, um, a few years back, Iremember I published a blog post
(19:30):
about this, where it's aboutchanging your lifestyle.
You know, I love bread.
I am never going to give upbread, but I'm going to learn.
I'm going to learn how to eatbread.
You know what I mean?
I love cheesecake.
It's like the best cake in theworld.
I'm not going to give upcheesecake, but I'm going to
learn how to eat cheesecake, youknow?
(19:51):
And, uh, just by making thoselittle changes of saying, I
still want to enjoy the thingsthat I love, I was able to
sustain that lifestyle.
So I think this is great.
And I'm so excited that we'retalking about it this way now, I
guess the next question I throwin
Speaker 4 (20:10):
The story in there.
May I throw another story inthere?
I didn't tell you about this.
Oh, absolutely.
So when, when you w what youjust said there reminded me, I
can't believe I didn't mentionthis before, but about eight
years ago, I was a competitivebodybuilder.
Oh, wow.
And I went on, I went on a 12week journey with food and
(20:33):
exercise that I would not wishon any woman.
Um, and it was, it was theepitome of what I'm talking
about with this unsustainable,what does the unsustainable debt
free journey look like?
I went on an unsustainableeating and exercise routine,
(20:55):
basically to get prepared forthe show.
And I had an eating disorderafter the show.
I could not stop putting food inmy mouth.
I was starving.
And it was one of the scariestand most frustrating several
weeks, because I had poured allthis time and energy and effort
(21:18):
and money into a process.
And I wasn't taught how to becareful.
I wasn't taught how to come awayfrom this.
You know, how the, what was theother half of the process,
right?
How do we, or what to expect?
Like nobody told me what toexpect.
(21:39):
And so when I think about thatwoman just slogging her way to
debt freedom.
That's sort of, that is really,the image is like, and now she
is she's sick.
She doesn't know what to do withher money.
She's scared of her money.
She's, she's spending her money.
Um, and you know, she's not usedto having it.
(22:01):
It's always had this purpose ofpaying off the bad debt, pay off
the debt, um, again, which is aworthy goal, but it's the way we
approach it.
And it's the way that we're, weprepare for, you know, how we're
gonna, how are we going to feelabout money?
How do we feel about money rightnow?
How do we feel about money onthe debt free journey, and
really having thoseconversations and paying
attention to that.
So I just thought that was sointeresting.
(22:22):
He talks about the dieting and,um, you know, you go to extreme
and then you just, you know,gain it all right back.
I have that exact experience.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah.
It's, I mean, it's veryrelatable, you know, and it
makes sense when you're thinkingabout money too, and debt.
The other thing that you pointedout that really struck me was
the idea of prioritization,because you get inundated with
this messages that, you know,debt is bad.
You have to pay, you have to payit.
So you, you tend to prioritizeit before anything else when
(22:56):
something else in your lifecould be going terribly, that's
actually more important, butyou're not focusing on it
because all you tend to hear islike, debt is bad.
You need to get rid of it.
You, you know, you're drowningin it and all of that stuff.
And to me, that really struck methat we do need to prioritize it
with everything else that we'redoing in our lives.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Absolutely.
And for some people drowning indebt is the most important thing
to focus on right now.
And I have, but, but there'salways there.
There's always steps that youcan take to make it feel more
sustainable.
And so, you know, I, I, I do, Ido meet sometimes with women who
(23:37):
they don't necessarily have afamily, they are, you know,
they're going on this journey ontheir own and truly money.
Stress is, it is the thing thatthey want to tackle, starting to
pay off this debt.
It is the thing, but evenputting money towards debt,
isn't the priority.
It is.
How do I, again, start with notusing debt?
(24:00):
How do I get comfortable puttinga plan together for my money for
the next month?
So that I'm building up that newevidence, that I'm the kind of
person who doesn't use debt.
And that is what creates thesustainability, because we are
building these habits andbehaviors that are healthy.
(24:20):
And when the debt is gone,someday, we now know how to
continue to live appropriatelywith money so that we don't add
to it ever again.
Um, and so starting notnecessarily with how much money
can I put together to throw itdebt.
It's just, how can I start tocreate this sense of peace
within me that I will not haveto rely on debt for the rest of
(24:42):
my life.
And that is the priority.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That's fantastic.
And a great segue to our lastquestion, which is what are the
tangible habits?
I think you just mentioned oneof them.
So what are the tangible habitswith tips to help women
sustainably get out of it?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, well, I mean, I would not be a good financial
coach if I didn't say half abudget.
So let me, let me just, you know, let me talk a little bit about
what I think that means.
Um, you know, something that Ilike to say is that a budget is
freeing.
And what I mean by that is abudget is simply a plan.
(25:25):
It is a little bit of structureand that structure, that bit of
a plan is what frees us, becausewe are not second guessing
ourselves.
We are not sitting up in themiddle of the night, wondering
if the money will be there topay this bill that's due in a
couple of days, it allows us toplan out what needs to happen
(25:49):
and have the confidence that themost important things will be
taken care of.
And again, that's just part of,sort of reducing stress, because
we know that the most importantthings are going to be taken
care of.
And maybe we'll just have tomake some choices about the
non-essentials, but a budgetdoes not.
It does not take away yourresources.
(26:10):
I, I feel like a lot of timessomeone will, or I'll, I'll talk
to a client about a budget andthey say, well, I don't really
want to do a budget because thenI'm not going to be able to
spend any money.
And it's like, well, it's the,you're going to have the exact
same amount of money to spendactually, like, I'm not, I'm not
going, I'm not taking any ofyour money away.
All I'm asking you to do is tosay ahead of time, what you
(26:33):
would like to spend your moneyon.
And, you know, I, I haven't yetfound a woman who says, gosh, I
really am so glad that I spentall that money that I didn't
mean to spend on you fill in theblank, you know, Amazon, or, you
know, no one says I'm so glad Idid that reckless spending that
(26:53):
I didn't plan to do.
Um, but, but when you create abudget and you know, I want to
get a few things on Amazon, or Iwant to have a little money for
me to spend on.
Now, we go through the Starbucksdrive through, or we go on
Amazon and pick something outthat we've been wanting to buy.
It's been sitting in our cart.
(27:14):
Um, and we don't feel that guiltbecause we planned for it.
It's part of the budget, like aspart of the plan.
And so that's all it is, is howdo we just put a plan together
ahead of time so that when wemake purchases, we've never had
that guilty feeling.
And I shouldn't say never.
I mean, it it's sometimes youstill have it, but it's a very
different, um, process of sortof emotions when you plan ahead.
(27:38):
And I mean, isn't that thetruth, you know, we'll put
something in our wishlist,right?
Or we'll add something to cartand it's something that we
actually want.
And then you'll turn around andgo buy three or four things that
you don't actually want.
And it was the same amount ofmoney as that thing in the cart
that you actually want.
(27:59):
I mean, so that's what I'mtalking about.
Like, if you're going to spend$50 on Amazon, let's make sure
it's going towards the thingthat you actually want and have
those lit up moments and havethat, that this is the joyful
journey, right?
Have experiences every singlemonth where you are buying
something or doing something foryourself that feels good.
(28:21):
You know, what's in the planand, oh my gosh, I'm actually
paying off debt too at the sametime.
So it just simplifies and sortthrough, what's actually
important to us.
And what do we want to takeaction on this month without
just guessing our way throughthe month?
I love that that's one tip, butthat's the first one.
(28:45):
That's always the first one.
Um, and you know, gosh, I mean,it's like with everything, we
just talked about the food andthe fitness, when it comes to
starting any new set of habits,when you, it comes to starting
any new plan, it's so easy forus to say, okay, well, I'll do
it on Monday.
I'll start on Monday.
I'll start next month.
(29:07):
Um, you know, it makes sense toprobably create a budget for
next month, but that doesn'tmean you can't start doing
something today.
So if you're listening to thisand you feel like, oh gosh, this
money stuff, I really should dosomething, do something today.
And the one thing you might dois just, you know, go on your,
open up your bank statement andjust see how things are going.
(29:28):
See, what did you spend money onthe last week?
And do you feel good going intothe next week?
Um, you know, do you, iseverything there that you need
to pay your bills?
Are you, have you had aconversation with your spouse
about recently and should youjust mention to your spouse,
Hey, I think we should have achat about doing a budget for
October.
(29:48):
You don't have to have the chat,but just say maybe we should
have a chat about doing abudget, just do something a
little that takes you, you know,you're taking action because
that is going to make you morelikely to take another action
the next day, or to pick up abook or listen to another
podcast, right.
Just continue to take littleactions until you feel like,
(30:11):
okay, this is a plan I want togo on, or this is a process I
want to try, but do somethingtoday, something little, and
that's going to allow you tocontinue, right.
Build some momentum behind thisthing.
And then, gosh, I mean, the lastthing I would say is really,
really know that you can dothis.
(30:32):
Um, you can pay off the debt.
You can go on a journey that issuited for you.
And that for the most part, thiskind of stuff does take time.
And so if you're feeling that,that frustration that, well, I'm
not, I'm never going to be outof debt or I'm not going to be
fast enough.
Maybe it's not going to be superfast, but the journey should be
(30:55):
more joyful than where you areright now.
And so why not start thejourney?
Why not get started?
It is going the habits andbehaviors needed to pay off debt
to live debt free are what willserve you for the rest of your
life with money.
And it is absolutely never tooearly to start and never too
(31:16):
late to start.
And so, you know, if you feellike, well, next year, or when
we get this raise or when we getthis next job, like, please,
like I said, last time, justtake that first action and just
have the faith that it is neverever, ever too early or too late
to start.
And that first step can be assimple as you want it to be, but
(31:36):
do something and allow thatmomentum to start to build for
you.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, I love that.
That is a great way to come tothis close, like start something
like any action is better thanno action at all.
Right.
Absolutely.
And I really, I love that.
Gosh, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Uh, Katie, absolutely sharingyour debt-free journey.
(32:01):
I feel like we could go onforever because you have so much
, uh, you know, so manyinsights.
It was extremely insightful tome and very helpful to me and
I'm sure to our listeners.
And so I really appreciate yourtime.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
The listeners want to learn more, how can they get in
touch with you?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Absolutely.
So actually a really great nextstep.
Like I said, you know, connectwith someone, listen to a
podcast.
I have a group where I am livein Facebook every single week,
doing a training, very similarto this actually.
And my group is called thesimplified budget.
That is a great place to get toknow me and connect with me and
(32:45):
just learn more about how to goon your own sustainable and
joyful debt-free journey.
And I also have a resource thatcould be a great first step on
your journey that has to do withending the, um, relationship
with debt and specifically howto break up with your credit
cards.
So it doesn't have to be creditcard specific, but it definitely
(33:08):
takes you through steps abouthow to stop using your credit
card, how to end therelationship with debt.
And that is again, like one ofthe most important things you
can do on that debt-free journeyis to start living without debt
in your day-to-day life.
So that is a great resource thatis available for you as well.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
That's awesome.
But I'm glad that you talkedabout the free resource that you
offering our listeners today.
So head on over to a Facebookgroup, got new swim in where I
will be posting the link to thatguide that Katie talked about
right after the show.
So you can have, um, access toit.
Um, once again, thank you somuch for joining us, Katie.
(33:50):
It was so great having you
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Thank you to do that.
I really appreciate this andwould love to chat with you
again some time.
This was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
We have to do it again.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The idea thought and experience of paying off debt
does not have to be stressfulfor women with the right
approach.
We can do it both sustainablyand joyfully.
Start by making a commitment toyourself, to do it, have the
faith that you can do it, remindyourself that it takes time.
And most importantly, celebratesmall wins at every step of your
(34:23):
journey.
Every woman's journey may bedifferent, but with the right
plan and attitude towards that,we can all achieve a debt-free
life.
So go ahead, have a budget starttoday and believe that you've
got this.
That's all for our show today.
Be sure to subscribe to ourpodcast on apple podcasts,
(34:43):
Spotify, Google podcasts, andPandora.
One to continue thisconversation connect with our
Facebook community at gap usewomen.
As I mentioned earlier in ourconversation, I will be posting
Katie's free guide on the nineways to break up with your
credit card to the group, rightafter the show.
Also head on over to our blog,guppies.com to discover more
(35:06):
resources on financial wellnessuntil next time, stay safe and
find the inspiration to liveyour best life.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
[inaudible].
Americans carry a whopping 1.7 trillion Institute
in debt of that women,especially women of color bear,
the burden of most of it, 929billion, which is two thirds of
the nation's student debt.
According to the Americanassociation of university women,
black women carry about 20% moredebt on average than white
(00:22):
women, or more than any othergroup, the pandemic has made it
even worse with women losingmore jobs than men due to lack
of childcare and being in thehardest hit industries, coupled
with earning less income due tothe gender pay gap, which is
also wider for women of colorand then paid maternity leave.
It's no surprise.
Women's struggle to repay theirdebt, the ramifications of
(00:45):
carrying more debt and theinability to pay it off a dire.
It means women do not haveenough money to save for
retirement.
Emergency funds, auto pay forhealthcare.
No wonder women are stressedout.
So what can we do to turn thissituation around for women?
How can we help women get rid ofdebt in a sustainable and less
(01:06):
stressful way?
What are the tangible habits ortips that can help us get out of
debt sustainably?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hey everyone, welcome to her canvas podcast, where we
discuss the topics that mattermost to women and help us find
the inspiration to live our bestlives.
I'm your host Janita curanderatoday I'm joined by Katie
Armstrong.
Katie is a financial coach,teacher and speaker who works
with women who are ready to payoff that debt in a sustainable
(01:45):
way with over a decade ofexperience in teaching and
coaching combined with her owndebt free journey and simplified
life.
Katie provides a unique servicefor our clients to help them
slow down, map out their ownjoyful debt-free journey and
create a life that has way lessstress around money.
Like many of us Katie hasexperienced the stress that
(02:06):
comes along with carrying debtwith a student loan or credit
card debt.
The burden of debt can beunbearable.
And the idea of paying it offcan feel unattainable.
She's here today to share herjourney, to becoming debt free
and to provide actionable tipsthat women can implement to get
rid of their debt in asustainable and joyful way.
(02:29):
Welcome to the show, Katie.
I'm so excited to have you ontoday.
I'm
Speaker 4 (02:35):
So happy to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Oh, I'm, I'm really happy to have you.
Maybe you can start by tellingus more about your background
and your journey to becoming afinancial coach, teacher and
speaker.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Absolutely.
So, you know, it's really funnybecause when I decided to start
this journey of being afinancial coach, I was at the
time a high school Latinteacher, and I was a coach.
I was a college advisor.
And so when I announced toeveryone, I'm going to be a
financial coach, I'm going tohelp women get out of debt.
(03:11):
They were so confused because itwas such a different, um, kind
of, uh, path than what I wasdoing as a teacher.
But the thing is, you know, whenI was in my mid twenties, I had
a lot of credit card debt hadabout$20,000 in credit card
debt.
And I know for some people, 3000feels like a lot 80,000 feels
(03:33):
like a lot, no matter whatyou're carrying and credit card
debt, it feels like a burden.
It is a burden, right?
And it feels like a lot to us.
So for me,$20,000 in credit carddebt felt like a lot.
I also had student loans that Iwas working on paying off and I
had some medical debt.
So I was 24, 25 years old.
(03:56):
I was working as a brand newteacher, making very little
income and feeling this burdenof the debt feeling at that
time.
And I know a lot of us, you know, go through this in our early
twenties, mid twenties, gosh,even into our thirties and
wonder, are we going to makemore money?
Are we going to grow?
Are we going to grow into biggercareers?
(04:19):
Are we going to make progress?
And am I going to be able totake care of this thing?
Am I going to be able to handlethis debt that I have?
And for me, I really felt like Iwasn't going to be able to
handle it.
And so I was caught up in thiscycle of well, because I'm
always going to be in debt.
(04:39):
I might just want to use mycredit cards.
So I might as well go out todinner and put it on a credit
card.
I might as well, like, forgetabout having a budget.
I mean, this is just how my lifewas going to be in it kind of
accepted it for a time, whichwas really, which was really
hard.
That was really heavy.
And, um, basically I hit a 0.1day where enough was enough and
(05:00):
I needed to do somethingdifferently about the debt.
So I did, I found a program thathad, step-by-step really sort
of, what do you focus on first?
What do you do next?
And I really gravitated towardsthat.
That felt really good to me atthe time that was my personality
type.
And that was just the, you know,I was single, I was on my own.
(05:23):
I had the capacity to really dothis by myself.
Um, and for me that was what wasexciting sort of going for this
new goal, working a plan thatwas laid out for me.
Um, and so that was my journey.
I took about two years to payoff all of my debt.
I worked my butt off and I had,you know, and that doesn't work
(05:46):
for everybody.
You know, my journey was myjourney, my circumstances at the
time or my circumstances.
Um, I babysat, I dog sat, Ihouse sat.
I, you know, did all this sortof behind the scenes jobs I
could, when I wasn't teaching, Ihad, I had a support system
around me.
You know, my boyfriend at thetime would take me out to
(06:06):
dinner.
And so I had a very supportivesystem around me and people
encouraging me.
And I was, you know, I wasreally just motivated by the
results that I started to seeearly on.
So it was, it was, uh, you know,I talk about becoming debt free
joyfully.
It was a joyful journey for me.
I was excited by the progress.
(06:30):
I was excited by the sort ofidea that things would change
for me.
Things were changing for me,those initial first steps I took
just that it really shifted mymindset around my future with
money and how quickly things canchange when you decide to
change.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Wow.
What a great journey.
Thank you for sharing that.
Katie, you know, some, you know,something that struck me
actually, while you were talkingabout your background is this
idea of joy, right?
The idea, because when you thinkdebt and trying to get rid of
debt, you don't think of, ofjoy, but then the more I think
about it, the more I think,well, you know, it's already
(07:09):
stressful carrying the burden ofdebt.
Why do we want to add the stressof now trying to pay it off?
Why not find a way that you can,uh, try to, to get rid of it in
a way that doesn't cause youadditional stress.
So I, I'm really excited to hearmore, more about that because we
(07:31):
can change the trajectory of howpeople approach that and how to
get rid of it.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
You know, I think you, you said it already, I
mean, this idea that it shouldbe joyful does seem
counterintuitive, but that is,that is the truth.
You're not, you're not joyful inyour current circumstances and
not to say that some peoplearen't completely joyful and
their circumstances, thisinterview probably isn't for
(07:58):
you.
If you're sitting with debt andyou're, you know, pretty happy
about it.
But you know, for, for a lot of,for a lot of women, the reality
is they're, they're carryingdebt and they're not happy about
it.
There's no joy around that.
And so the idea is I believethat there is a path.
I believe that there's a journeyfor every single one of us to
(08:22):
pay off debt in a way that feelsbetter than what we're
experiencing right now.
And it comes down to a really,there's a couple of things that
I see again and again and again.
And one that, one of the mostimportant things is that we
haven't yet decided that we aregoing to go on this journey,
(08:42):
right?
We haven't committed to it.
And a lot of that just has to dowith our faith in ourselves to
take the steps every day that itrequires.
Um, and so like anytransformation in our lives,
whether it's the way we takecare of our bodies, right?
With exercise or how we eat,whether it is our intimate
relationships and how muchenergy and effort we pour into
(09:05):
those, it takes time.
Nothing really transformsovernight, but you can take
certain steps that do feel likea major shift is happening.
And there are there's, you know,these initial, these wins that
we experienced that feels sogood and keep us motivated.
(09:26):
And so I think that's where thejoy comes in is when we commit
to something and we allowourselves to have those early
wins, which really justreinforced, you know, this, this
faith that we can take a stepand we can feel success, and
then we can take the next stepand feel success.
Um, but that truly takes acommitment and a willingness to
(09:48):
keep trying until we have thoseearly wins.
So that's one thing.
The other thing that I find sooften is that we, we don't go on
to step free journey.
We don't commit to thisdebt-free journey.
We don't feel the joy because nomatter what we try to, you know,
in terms of the pain off thedebt, whatever we try to pay off
(10:10):
the debt, we haven't yet learnedhow to live without debt.
And so we might feel reallyexcited to make a big payment on
our credit card.
Or we might say, I'm going toknock out this, you know, this
little student loan in the nextsix months, like that's really
great, but if you haven'tfigured out a way to live
(10:32):
without new debt consistentlyweek over week, month over
month, any time you then usedebt again, even when you're
trying to pay off that, it justfeels like we're going one step
forward and then two steps back.
Or we just feel the weight ofit.
Even if you just have, you know,you might have Netflix or Hulu
(10:54):
Disney plus, right?
All the little things get audit.
They automatically go on yourcredit card every month, even
though you're not actively goingand spending money, you still,
you, you are using the card.
You are seeing those purchases.
You are, you feel the burden ofit, no matter how little.
And so something I like to dowith my clients is really say,
(11:17):
okay, let's forget about thisdebt.
We want to pay off just for aminute.
And let's really commit toliving for the next few months
without using debt, withoutusing our credit cards, without
adding to it whatsoever.
Even if you're paying it all offevery month, how can we build up
that faith in ourselves build upthat evidence that we can live
(11:38):
month over month without debt.
Because that truly is what beingdebt free is that is living a
debt free lifestyle when you areno longer using debt.
So that is oftentimes somethingthat people miss.
They don't put enough energyaround.
They don't put the effort intothat commitment into those
habits.
And so any effort to actuallypaying off the debt, just, it
(12:01):
feels kind of pointless.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Wow.
I love that.
I love so much of what you said.
Um, I love the whole idea ofcommitting to something and then
celebrating the wins.
The small wins.
I find that when you celebratewins, that it is an amazing
motivator.
Like you said, um, even thetiniest win can make you feel
(12:27):
like, oh, I can do this.
And then I hadn't really thoughtabout, you know, what?
You said, that even if you'repaying it off every month, if
you're continuing to use it,then you don't feel like you're
making any headway.
I can see how we don't look atit that way.
And the, and how important it isto actually start looking at it
(12:47):
that way, which, um, leads meinto my next question.
What happens when the debt freejourney is not approached
sustainably?
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Oh, that's a great question.
You know, something that one ofmy coaches has said time, and
again, is the way youexperienced the journey is the
way that you're going toexperience the outcome or the
result of that journey.
And so what that means is let'ssay you are trying to pay off
(13:18):
debt and you really cut outeverything in your life.
Everything that makes you happyand you are just plugging away
every single month saying, youknow, we're never going to step
foot in a restaurant.
We're never gonna, um, you know,we're never going to sign the
kids up for an activity.
(13:38):
We're not going on any vacation,not even a weekend away, you
know, by car, we're not doinganything.
All we're allowed to do is payoff this step, that journey,
that restriction and that amountof just frustration and focus
that that takes is going to, ifyou even pay off all your debt
(14:00):
that way, and not many people dothat, you know, that focus that
determined.
Um, and I, I want to quicklysay, you know, focus is really
important, no matter what yourjourney is, but I guess what I'm
saying is sort of that focus ononly paying off debt and doing
it, really doing nothing else.
We get to the end and we nolonger know how to spend money
(14:24):
appropriately.
We don't know.
And I've had this happen withclients before where they really
do almost go too fast.
And when they get to the endthere, they're scared to spend
money on anything they feel asif they don't have a goal to
(14:45):
work towards with their moneyanymore.
And they feel very lost.
And so I think where we reallyhave to think about
sustainability, because numberone, we want to enjoy the
process.
We want to enjoy the journeywhen you become debt free, your
money journey is not over.
(15:05):
I mean, debt debt, freedom is aworthy goal.
I support the debt free journey,but it is not the last piece.
There's, there's, there's morethere.
There's more after the debt freejourney.
And if you have not cultivatedthese habits and behaviors that
we've talked about, right, in away that makes it joyful in a
(15:28):
way, in a way where you aremaking the most important parts
of your lives, the prioritypaying off debt should never be
the number one priority.
Um, and so a lot of times I'llmeet with a couple and they're
worried about their marriage.
I mean, they're, they're really,their marriages is on the rocks
(15:50):
and they just think, uh, or oneperson might think, right.
If we just pay off the debt, ifwe just pay off the debt,
believe me paying off the debtis not the answer.
So how are we making sure thatwe prioritize the marriage, or
if we have a child in need, howdo we prioritize, you know, our
child, if we are really focusedon our health right now, because
(16:12):
we've had some health scares, mygosh, let's put that debt free
journey a bit on hold.
Let's focus on the health.
Let's focus on healthy habits.
Let's focus on living withoutdebt, but we don't necessarily
have to attack the debt that is,you know, that we're holding
onto right now.
If, if there's something elsethat's more important.
(16:33):
So I think the sustainabilitypiece is so key because some
people think that you have tojust pay it off as quickly as
possible.
And I'll be honest.
I felt that way for a time.
Um, this was pre COVID.
This was, you know, when I wasyoung and single and didn't have
children, I mean, my journey, mycircumstances allowed me to just
(16:56):
kind of quickly do it, but thatis not the answer for every
woman.
And so sustainability to memeans that when we get to the
end of the debt-free journey,we're excited about the next
step we are feeling good.
We are, we're ready to spendmoney in a healthy way.
(17:17):
We have been practicing spendingmoney in a healthy way.
And we aren't going to justcompletely kind of like binge on
spending or, you know, w wehaven't been so restricted and
so sort of scared of spendingmoney that we now have to
unravel that and figure out theappropriate ways to behave with
(17:40):
money after we pay off the debt.
So that's where I see a lack ofsustainability, really making
the journey not enjoyable.
And we might just go right backto where we started, if we're
not careful how we approach thejourney and how we approach
paying off debt.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Gosh, that is amazing.
That whole idea ofsustainability and the approach
to the debt-free journey.
I've never heard of it spokenabout this way, but it makes
sense.
And it actually made me think ofhealthy eating, like when people
decide or when we decide aswomen that want to change by
(18:22):
eating habits, you know, we wantto, um, change a lifestyle.
A lot of times you see thewomen, you know, deny themselves
everything.
I'm just going to go on thisdiet and I'm going to eat all
the healthy stuff that they'retelling me to eat.
And I'm not, I'm going to stayaway from anything that I enjoy
(18:43):
any type of food that I enjoy.
And they go on this journey andsure enough, you know, maybe
they lose the weight that theywant to lose and they look how
they want to look.
And it does last and it doesn'tlast because it is not
enjoyable.
Right?
And to your point aboutforgetting how to spend money
appropriately, it's the same wayforgetting how to eat, right?
(19:07):
Because you have deniedyourself, all of these things,
all of a sudden, you're like,okay, now when you're done with
your diet or whatever, how do Ieat?
How do I sustain it?
And for a lot of women, theytend to go backwards, right?
Where you put back on all theweight, or you go back to eating
all the stuff that you didn'twant to eat.
And, um, a few years back, Iremember I published a blog post
(19:30):
about this, where it's aboutchanging your lifestyle.
You know, I love bread.
I am never going to give upbread, but I'm going to learn.
I'm going to learn how to eatbread.
You know what I mean?
I love cheesecake.
It's like the best cake in theworld.
I'm not going to give upcheesecake, but I'm going to
learn how to eat cheesecake, youknow?
(19:51):
And, uh, just by making thoselittle changes of saying, I
still want to enjoy the thingsthat I love, I was able to
sustain that lifestyle.
So I think this is great.
And I'm so excited that we'retalking about it this way now, I
guess the next question I throwin
Speaker 4 (20:10):
The story in there.
May I throw another story inthere?
I didn't tell you about this.
Oh, absolutely.
So when, when you w what youjust said there reminded me, I
can't believe I didn't mentionthis before, but about eight
years ago, I was a competitivebodybuilder.
Oh, wow.
And I went on, I went on a 12week journey with food and
(20:33):
exercise that I would not wishon any woman.
Um, and it was, it was theepitome of what I'm talking
about with this unsustainable,what does the unsustainable debt
free journey look like?
I went on an unsustainableeating and exercise routine,
(20:55):
basically to get prepared forthe show.
And I had an eating disorderafter the show.
I could not stop putting food inmy mouth.
I was starving.
And it was one of the scariestand most frustrating several
weeks, because I had poured allthis time and energy and effort
(21:18):
and money into a process.
And I wasn't taught how to becareful.
I wasn't taught how to come awayfrom this.
You know, how the, what was theother half of the process,
right?
How do we, or what to expect?
Like nobody told me what toexpect.
(21:39):
And so when I think about thatwoman just slogging her way to
debt freedom.
That's sort of, that is really,the image is like, and now she
is she's sick.
She doesn't know what to do withher money.
She's scared of her money.
She's, she's spending her money.
Um, and you know, she's not usedto having it.
(22:01):
It's always had this purpose ofpaying off the bad debt, pay off
the debt, um, again, which is aworthy goal, but it's the way we
approach it.
And it's the way that we're, weprepare for, you know, how we're
gonna, how are we going to feelabout money?
How do we feel about money rightnow?
How do we feel about money onthe debt free journey, and
really having thoseconversations and paying
attention to that.
So I just thought that was sointeresting.
(22:22):
He talks about the dieting and,um, you know, you go to extreme
and then you just, you know,gain it all right back.
I have that exact experience.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah.
It's, I mean, it's veryrelatable, you know, and it
makes sense when you're thinkingabout money too, and debt.
The other thing that you pointedout that really struck me was
the idea of prioritization,because you get inundated with
this messages that, you know,debt is bad.
You have to pay, you have to payit.
So you, you tend to prioritizeit before anything else when
(22:56):
something else in your lifecould be going terribly, that's
actually more important, butyou're not focusing on it
because all you tend to hear islike, debt is bad.
You need to get rid of it.
You, you know, you're drowningin it and all of that stuff.
And to me, that really struck methat we do need to prioritize it
with everything else that we'redoing in our lives.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Absolutely.
And for some people drowning indebt is the most important thing
to focus on right now.
And I have, but, but there'salways there.
There's always steps that youcan take to make it feel more
sustainable.
And so, you know, I, I, I do, Ido meet sometimes with women who
(23:37):
they don't necessarily have afamily, they are, you know,
they're going on this journey ontheir own and truly money.
Stress is, it is the thing thatthey want to tackle, starting to
pay off this debt.
It is the thing, but evenputting money towards debt,
isn't the priority.
It is.
How do I, again, start with notusing debt?
(24:00):
How do I get comfortable puttinga plan together for my money for
the next month?
So that I'm building up that newevidence, that I'm the kind of
person who doesn't use debt.
And that is what creates thesustainability, because we are
building these habits andbehaviors that are healthy.
(24:20):
And when the debt is gone,someday, we now know how to
continue to live appropriatelywith money so that we don't add
to it ever again.
Um, and so starting notnecessarily with how much money
can I put together to throw itdebt.
It's just, how can I start tocreate this sense of peace
within me that I will not haveto rely on debt for the rest of
(24:42):
my life.
And that is the priority.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
That's fantastic.
And a great segue to our lastquestion, which is what are the
tangible habits?
I think you just mentioned oneof them.
So what are the tangible habitswith tips to help women
sustainably get out of it?
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Yeah, well, I mean, I would not be a good financial
coach if I didn't say half abudget.
So let me, let me just, you know, let me talk a little bit about
what I think that means.
Um, you know, something that Ilike to say is that a budget is
freeing.
And what I mean by that is abudget is simply a plan.
(25:25):
It is a little bit of structureand that structure, that bit of
a plan is what frees us, becausewe are not second guessing
ourselves.
We are not sitting up in themiddle of the night, wondering
if the money will be there topay this bill that's due in a
couple of days, it allows us toplan out what needs to happen
(25:49):
and have the confidence that themost important things will be
taken care of.
And again, that's just part of,sort of reducing stress, because
we know that the most importantthings are going to be taken
care of.
And maybe we'll just have tomake some choices about the
non-essentials, but a budgetdoes not.
It does not take away yourresources.
(26:10):
I, I feel like a lot of timessomeone will, or I'll, I'll talk
to a client about a budget andthey say, well, I don't really
want to do a budget because thenI'm not going to be able to
spend any money.
And it's like, well, it's the,you're going to have the exact
same amount of money to spendactually, like, I'm not, I'm not
going, I'm not taking any ofyour money away.
All I'm asking you to do is tosay ahead of time, what you
(26:33):
would like to spend your moneyon.
And, you know, I, I haven't yetfound a woman who says, gosh, I
really am so glad that I spentall that money that I didn't
mean to spend on you fill in theblank, you know, Amazon, or, you
know, no one says I'm so glad Idid that reckless spending that
(26:53):
I didn't plan to do.
Um, but, but when you create abudget and you know, I want to
get a few things on Amazon, or Iwant to have a little money for
me to spend on.
Now, we go through the Starbucksdrive through, or we go on
Amazon and pick something outthat we've been wanting to buy.
It's been sitting in our cart.
(27:14):
Um, and we don't feel that guiltbecause we planned for it.
It's part of the budget, like aspart of the plan.
And so that's all it is, is howdo we just put a plan together
ahead of time so that when wemake purchases, we've never had
that guilty feeling.
And I shouldn't say never.
I mean, it it's sometimes youstill have it, but it's a very
different, um, process of sortof emotions when you plan ahead.
(27:38):
And I mean, isn't that thetruth, you know, we'll put
something in our wishlist,right?
Or we'll add something to cartand it's something that we
actually want.
And then you'll turn around andgo buy three or four things that
you don't actually want.
And it was the same amount ofmoney as that thing in the cart
that you actually want.
(27:59):
I mean, so that's what I'mtalking about.
Like, if you're going to spend$50 on Amazon, let's make sure
it's going towards the thingthat you actually want and have
those lit up moments and havethat, that this is the joyful
journey, right?
Have experiences every singlemonth where you are buying
something or doing something foryourself that feels good.
(28:21):
You know, what's in the planand, oh my gosh, I'm actually
paying off debt too at the sametime.
So it just simplifies and sortthrough, what's actually
important to us.
And what do we want to takeaction on this month without
just guessing our way throughthe month?
I love that that's one tip, butthat's the first one.
(28:45):
That's always the first one.
Um, and you know, gosh, I mean,it's like with everything, we
just talked about the food andthe fitness, when it comes to
starting any new set of habits,when you, it comes to starting
any new plan, it's so easy forus to say, okay, well, I'll do
it on Monday.
I'll start on Monday.
I'll start next month.
(29:07):
Um, you know, it makes sense toprobably create a budget for
next month, but that doesn'tmean you can't start doing
something today.
So if you're listening to thisand you feel like, oh gosh, this
money stuff, I really should dosomething, do something today.
And the one thing you might dois just, you know, go on your,
open up your bank statement andjust see how things are going.
(29:28):
See, what did you spend money onthe last week?
And do you feel good going intothe next week?
Um, you know, do you, iseverything there that you need
to pay your bills?
Are you, have you had aconversation with your spouse
about recently and should youjust mention to your spouse,
Hey, I think we should have achat about doing a budget for
October.
(29:48):
You don't have to have the chat,but just say maybe we should
have a chat about doing abudget, just do something a
little that takes you, you know,you're taking action because
that is going to make you morelikely to take another action
the next day, or to pick up abook or listen to another
podcast, right.
Just continue to take littleactions until you feel like,
(30:11):
okay, this is a plan I want togo on, or this is a process I
want to try, but do somethingtoday, something little, and
that's going to allow you tocontinue, right.
Build some momentum behind thisthing.
And then, gosh, I mean, the lastthing I would say is really,
really know that you can dothis.
(30:32):
Um, you can pay off the debt.
You can go on a journey that issuited for you.
And that for the most part, thiskind of stuff does take time.
And so if you're feeling that,that frustration that, well, I'm
not, I'm never going to be outof debt or I'm not going to be
fast enough.
Maybe it's not going to be superfast, but the journey should be
(30:55):
more joyful than where you areright now.
And so why not start thejourney?
Why not get started?
It is going the habits andbehaviors needed to pay off debt
to live debt free are what willserve you for the rest of your
life with money.
And it is absolutely never tooearly to start and never too
(31:16):
late to start.
And so, you know, if you feellike, well, next year, or when
we get this raise or when we getthis next job, like, please,
like I said, last time, justtake that first action and just
have the faith that it is neverever, ever too early or too late
to start.
And that first step can be assimple as you want it to be, but
(31:36):
do something and allow thatmomentum to start to build for
you.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Oh, I love that.
That is a great way to come tothis close, like start something
like any action is better thanno action at all.
Right.
Absolutely.
And I really, I love that.
Gosh, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Uh, Katie, absolutely sharingyour debt-free journey.
(32:01):
I feel like we could go onforever because you have so much
, uh, you know, so manyinsights.
It was extremely insightful tome and very helpful to me and
I'm sure to our listeners.
And so I really appreciate yourtime.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
The listeners want to learn more, how can they get in
touch with you?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Absolutely.
So actually a really great nextstep.
Like I said, you know, connectwith someone, listen to a
podcast.
I have a group where I am livein Facebook every single week,
doing a training, very similarto this actually.
And my group is called thesimplified budget.
That is a great place to get toknow me and connect with me and
(32:45):
just learn more about how to goon your own sustainable and
joyful debt-free journey.
And I also have a resource thatcould be a great first step on
your journey that has to do withending the, um, relationship
with debt and specifically howto break up with your credit
cards.
So it doesn't have to be creditcard specific, but it definitely
(33:08):
takes you through steps abouthow to stop using your credit
card, how to end therelationship with debt.
And that is again, like one ofthe most important things you
can do on that debt-free journeyis to start living without debt
in your day-to-day life.
So that is a great resource thatis available for you as well.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
That's awesome.
But I'm glad that you talkedabout the free resource that you
offering our listeners today.
So head on over to a Facebookgroup, got new swim in where I
will be posting the link to thatguide that Katie talked about
right after the show.
So you can have, um, access toit.
Um, once again, thank you somuch for joining us, Katie.
(33:50):
It was so great having you
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Thank you to do that.
I really appreciate this andwould love to chat with you
again some time.
This was wonderful.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
We have to do it again.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The idea thought and experience of paying off debt
does not have to be stressfulfor women with the right
approach.
We can do it both sustainablyand joyfully.
Start by making a commitment toyourself, to do it, have the
faith that you can do it, remindyourself that it takes time.
And most importantly, celebratesmall wins at every step of your
(34:23):
journey.
Every woman's journey may bedifferent, but with the right
plan and attitude towards that,we can all achieve a debt-free
life.
So go ahead, have a budget starttoday and believe that you've
got this.
That's all for our show today.
Be sure to subscribe to ourpodcast on apple podcasts,
(34:43):
Spotify, Google podcasts, andPandora.
One to continue thisconversation connect with our
Facebook community at gap usewomen.
As I mentioned earlier in ourconversation, I will be posting
Katie's free guide on the nineways to break up with your
credit card to the group, rightafter the show.
Also head on over to our blog,guppies.com to discover more
(35:06):
resources on financial wellnessuntil next time, stay safe and
find the inspiration to liveyour best life.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
[inaudible].
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.