The cannabis industry faces an existential crisis as political developments threaten businesses across multiple fronts despite growing public acceptance. State and federal politics are creating contradictory and often hostile environments for cannabis operators while simultaneously claiming to support legalization.
• Texas Governor Abbott vetoed SB3, preserving the hemp industry with a special session starting soon to determine the regulatory framework
• North Carolina scaled back hemp restrictions to focus on age limits and synthetic cannabinoid prohibitions
• Federal appropriations bills contain language that could redefine hemp and effectively ban all intoxicating products
• Senate bill provisions could strip protections preventing federal enforcement against state-legal cannabis programs
• California implemented a 25% excise tax increase on cannabis while Governor Newsom made performative promises to stop it
• California's cannabis tax collections are down 11% year-over-year as the industry contracts under regulatory pressure
• Stanley Brothers (Charlotte's Web founders) are pursuing FDA approval for THC medicines, potentially creating billion-dollar pharmaceutical applications
• Epidiolex, a CBD-based FDA-approved medicine, generated $972 million in sales last year
• Potential cannabis rescheduling to Schedule III could open doors for medical applications while providing tax relief
• Connected Cannabis filed a lawsuit challenging California's punitive testing requirements for aspergillus
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben Larson (00:00):
This is the final straw Like.
This is just a state thatdidn't legalize cannabis.
It was all performative, theentire thing Since 2016,.
It's been performativelegalization and all they've
done since 2016 is try to killthe cannabis industry.
I was here, you were hereduring the Prop 215 days.
Those are the good old days.
Hey everybody, welcome toepisode 95 of High Spirits.
(00:35):
I'm Ben Larson and with me, asalways, is Anna Rae Grabstein,
recording Thursday July 1st 2025.
And I'm back from vacation.
Good thing, nothing bighappened over the last two weeks
.
We have a cannabis businessnews roundup for you.
This week.
We'll be talking about the vetoof SB3 in Texas.
(00:55):
We have North Carolina and thegutting of House Bill 328.
We have an appropriations bill,a big, beautiful bill.
Many, many things to talk about, and we'll get there.
But first I need to check inwith my co-host, anna Rae.
Anna Rae, how are you doing?
Do you miss me?
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:13):
I'm good.
I miss you so much, ben.
You've been in Japan texting meincredible photos of food which
I can't wait to hear all aboutMe.
I have been working away thecrazy wilds of summer and
cannabis, uh.
But the big news you know onthe home front is that my kid is
at summer camp for the firsttime ever.
Ben Larson (01:34):
Sleep away camp oh, sleep away camp yeah, you're
basically like having vacationat home that's exactly right.
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:43):
So I, what my husband and I talked about, was
like, well, should we go out oftown?
It was like heck, no, we shouldstay home.
Our kid, isn't here.
And so we decided that we weregoing to cancel dinner, Like we
aren't allowed to talk aboutdinner all week, which if you
are a parent you know it's kindof like the bane of all parents.
(02:03):
Existence is to what is fordinner.
So we're still eating in theevenings, but we're not using
the word dinner, and it mightjust like be whatever's in the
fridge or a snack at the cheeseplate.
It's exactly right and like alot of desserts, so many
desserts.
And so, to top it all off, wehave a hot tub in our backyard.
It's beautiful, sonoma County.
(02:24):
We we had our not dinner atabout 9pm last night and then we
went out into the hot tub forlike a lovely no kid evening and
we were basking in the glory.
After about 10 minutes I lookedat my husband and I said do you
smell that it's taking a turn?
It's taking a turn.
He said no, what are youtalking about?
(02:46):
It smells something funny.
The hot tub is it mildewy?
What's going on?
Our hot tub is always reallypristine and nice and he turns
on the light in the hot tub,which we had had off.
It was dark and lovely andthere were dead frogs in.
Oh, no.
Yeah, all romance averted Moodkiller.
And I was like I screamed.
(03:10):
I get out, I wrap my towelaround myself.
I look at him like, uh-oh, doyou need my help?
What do I do?
I need to take a shower.
I'm going to smell you frogstoo and run inside.
So anyway, it's the adventuresof of being childless.
Is is not as quite romanticalas we are hoping so far, but
(03:31):
we're working on it and it'sbeen great either way.
Ben Larson (03:33):
So I'm I'm doing well.
Thanks to the frogs for keepingthe show PG All right.
We we also were childish,childish.
We were childish and childlessfor two weeks, which was really
incredible.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:48):
Isn't it funny how you get rid of your
kids and then you actuallybecome childish again.
I love that you said that, yeah.
Ben Larson (03:54):
Yeah, freudian slip, but your schedule becomes
whatever it is that you want,you eat whatever you want, you
do whatever you want, and theonly thing different now is that
hopefully you have money to doit right.
And there were hot tubs, therewas a lot of great food,
incredible sites.
My first day there, it was acombination of me being alone.
(04:17):
I didn't meet up with my wifeuntil three days later and I was
around Tokyo.
I was getting reacquainted withmy camera and fighting, making
sure I didn't get jet lag.
So I got like 30,000 steps inmy first day and I saw a ton of
Tokyo and I just it was a blast,it was hot, it was, it was.
It was hot and humid.
(04:37):
So there's a lot of sweat, butI also just put it in my head.
I'm like, oh, it's like beingin a sauna all day and, yeah, it
was a great time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:45):
That's so cool.
I can't wait to go to Japan.
You've really inspired me, tellme a little bit the cannabis
scene is like in Japan,non-existent.
Ben Larson (04:55):
I mean, I saw two CBD shops in two different
cities.
There was some CBD gummies Isaw that were oddly, I will say,
here in the US we're hyperaware of making sure that we're
not advertising to children, beit hemp or alcohol.
I know alcohol is a little bitof a slippery conversation, but
(05:16):
for the most part there'salcohol sections and it's clear.
We were walking around somestores where you'd be looking at
Legos and then all of a suddenyou look to the right and
there's like a handle of whiskeyand then you turn a little bit
further and then there's the 18only section where there's like
vibrators and all this kind ofstuff and it's all branded the
same.
It's like big, bold, cutecartoons and I'm just I'm like
(05:39):
holy shit, like norm, our friendat the fda would just have a
heart attack walking through, uh, this grocery store and so,
yeah, that part was interesting,but I didn't smell weed for two
weeks and that was reallyinteresting because anytime
you're walking around here,especially in the bay area, you
know you walk around the corner,you get, you get hit with a
(06:01):
nice cloud and, depending on whoyou are, you either really
enjoy it or you're disgusted.
Um.
Myself I love the smell of weedand so that was like that was
an interesting aspect.
So we have some work to dothere, but otherwise, dream
vacation.
Everything is so well organized, so efficient, such like a
hospitality bent to everything,like nothing is.
(06:22):
There's just no entitlementfrom the service side.
Right, they live to serve andthey take such pride in
everything they do, from thefood to the crossing guards.
I wrote a post about it onlinkedin, posted some pictures,
yeah, but yeah, it's just reallyimpressed I.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:39):
hospitality is something that is sorely
lacking in the US these days.
I think the pandemic killedservice.
I grew up in a restaurant.
My family ran an Italianrestaurant and I would spend
after school days there, andthen, once I got my first job, I
worked in a coffee shop in highschool and I think that
hospitality prepared me forcannabis just as well as my
(07:04):
business school MBA educationdid.
It was to learn about servingpeople, because this really is a
service business, and thinkingabout what it is that people
want, meeting them where theyare those are all things that
you learn in such a hands-on waywhen you work in the service
space, so it's good to see thatservice is still alive somewhere
.
Ben Larson (07:22):
Yeah, no, it's something I'm hyper aware of and
, like you know, I'm still I'm alittle old school in that
fashion like it significantlyaffects the tip that I want to
give and I say want because II'm also a generous giver.
I spent time as a server incollege and I think that people
that do do hospitality of somesort, or even just retail, like
(07:46):
where you have to serve thecustomer at an early age, like
it shapes you and so oftentimeswhen I'm interviewing people
I'll ask them I'm like, what didyou do in college to make money
or to get by?
And I think it's just verytelling about, like, how that
person is wired obviouslydoesn't determine whether
they're hired or not, butcertainly gives them some bonus
points if they say they were awaiter or a busser or or a bag
(08:10):
person amazing.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:13):
Uh well, we have missed all of you.
To our listeners out there, benand I have been separate.
Now this is.
It's been three weeks sincewe've recorded together.
There's two episodes this isour longest break since we
started and it's episode 95, 95it's a lot, and it's it's been
two years since we've been doingthis every week with y'all, so,
(08:34):
um, thanks everyone for forcoming and let's jump in.
Ben Larson (08:38):
Let's, uh, let's talk about texas, texas yeah, so
texas governor greg abbott,texas yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:44):
So Texas Governor Greg Abbott shocked the
cannabis world when he vetoedSB3, maybe shocked some people.
Other people worked really hardto get that veto, preserving
the state's hemp industry fornow.
Ben Larson (08:58):
Yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:59):
But what is about to happen, Ben?
Ben Larson (09:02):
Yeah.
So there's a special sessionstarting in 20 days where the
legislature will come togetherand try to decide on the path
forward and this will determinewhat the hemp situation is in
Texas for the next two years andit'll be final right.
And so I think there's a lot ofpeople that are saying, yes, we
(09:23):
want regulations, we just don'twant prohibition, and there's a
little theme that is startingto roll out across the US about
this.
But I think, as long as thoseregulations aren't hyper
restrictive and look a lot likethe CUP program, that people
will generally be happy.
A lot of the hemp industry hasbeen calling for regulations and
structure and things that makepublic safety feel safe, but
(09:46):
what we also might get is justthe status quo, which is this
crazy hemp industry that istotally growing and on fire and,
I think, anywhere between thosetwo.
Personally, I'm happy.
I was laying in bed in Japanand got news that the veto came
through and I was tracking itvery closely and, yeah, it was
(10:10):
just one of those moments.
I'm like holy shit, it happenedand there was just so much that
went into that and so many jobs, so much revenue and a
signaling to the rest of thehemp and cannabis industry about
where reefer madness is placesin society these days.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:27):
Well, there was a lot of reefer madness
leading up to this veto and alot of misinformation in Texas
about the difference betweencannabis and hemp and and how,
what was happening to people asa result of consuming cannabis,
and just a lot of fear, whichwas really, really disheartening
for people who spend a lot oftime good people trying to do
the right thing.
(10:48):
At the same time, we know thatthere has been a lack of
oversight in Texas and I thinkwhat the governor is calling for
is more guardrails and I'minterested to see what those
guardrails are and if certainproducts or form factors are
reined in in Texas and ifthere's potency restrictions or
limitations, especially because,while the governor vetoed the
(11:13):
hemp prohibition, he greenlitthe expansion of the medical
program and now the regulatorsare required by the end of the
year to license nine additionalmedical providers in Texas and a
total of 15 licenses need to beissued by April of next year,
which means that there is goingto be more competition and
(11:37):
business happening in themedical space in Texas and those
folks are going to need to beset up to succeed and I do think
that the legislature, asthey're considering the
governor's request to regulatethe industry, are going to be
weighing what is the right pathfor both spaces to exist, so
that there can bedifferentiation between what's
(11:58):
happening in the medical marketand what's happening in the hemp
side of the market.
But we know that things arecomplicated because the industry
got really big withoutoversight in the state, and so
there's a lot of people thathave a lot to lose, and we'll
see what happens starting onJuly 21st.
Ben Larson (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm interested to see how it affects
the conversation going into2026, not to put the cart before
the horse, but like we see whatcan happen if we don't get
proactive about putting inregulations that do promote
public safety and some control,responsible control and so maybe
(12:35):
what this will do is create alot more opportunity for seeing
proactive hemp bills coming tothe table for the 2026
legislative session proactivehemp bills coming to the table
for the 2026 legislative session.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:53):
I agree, and I think that had the governor
decided to let SB3 move forwardinstead of veto it, there was a
lot of indication that otherstates would take that as a
signal as well.
So hopefully this is going tobe a signal that Texas is going
to be a leader here and dosomething that's good.
This is going to be a signalthat.
Ben Larson (13:04):
Texas is going to be a leader here and do something.
That's, that's good, yeah.
The immediate one that followedwas was North Carolina right,
like there was House Bill 328,the Protecting Our Community Act
.
It surfaced very close to theend of session and was being
railroaded through, and itbasically was another
prohibition to hemp likemovement and, long story short,
(13:26):
all that came out of it reallywas seemed to be uh, the 21 age
restriction and then removingsynthetic cannabinoids, and so I
think this is another examplethat we need regulations and not
prohibition, and I just wonderit's like it has happened in
(13:48):
such close concert with whathappened in Texas Like, would
that outcome have been differenthad Texas not done the veto?
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:54):
Yeah, what occurs to me when I see this
North Carolina update is thatthis is really becoming adult
use cannabis.
When a state moves to regulatehemp, like what North Carolina
is doing, they're creating asystem to access cannabinoids,
and in a state like NorthCarolina that does not have an
(14:17):
adult use cannabis program,they're doing that type of work,
as they're thinking about it,that we've seen happen in other
states with cannabis programs,and just doing it within a
different ecosystem in terms ofthe input ingredient that these
products are going to have andopening up different channels
for retail access and consumersto access these products.
(14:39):
But it just reminds me of theways that states have discussed
what type of regulations theywant for adult use cannabis and
now they're just using thosesame ideas and, instead of
prohibiting these products,they're thinking about how to
make it safe for people to beable to access them.
So I like to see it.
Ben Larson (14:59):
Yeah yeah, another version of red state weed.
Like what we talked about withHersh back on episode 36.
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:07):
Yeah, that's right.
Ben Larson (15:08):
Yeah, but you know, all this might be moot in the
future Hopefully not, probablynot, I'd like to say but there's
some pretty big, scary thingshappening at the federal level.
I think we should talk aboutthat first before we settle on
our home state of california,which is its own hot mess of a
situation.
(15:29):
So there's like multiple bigbills, some of them beautiful.
Uh, that are, I think ugly,ugly, ugly, ugly.
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:39):
Bills, ugly, ugly bills.
Ben Larson (15:41):
Not beautiful big ugly bills some of them called
the big beautiful bill that havevery significant impacts on
cannabis and hemp.
So which one do you want tostart with?
The appropriations bill, thebig beautiful bill?
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:56):
Yeah, let's talk about the appropriations
bill.
I talked about getting in myhot tub last night and it being
like smelly frog soup.
That's what the appropriationsbill is.
This is some smelly frog soup.
That's what the appropriationsbill is.
This is some smelly frog soup.
This is controversial languagethat could redefine hemp in a
way that would virtually ban allconsumable products that are
(16:19):
intoxicating in any way.
So, really, thc and everythingthat is like thc yeah, that is
what is being proposed in thisbill.
Ben Larson (16:27):
Yeah, and it's complicated.
There's the fiscal year 25appropriations bill where this
first came up, so this became anissue last year.
I don't know how much attentionit got not much, but the Miller
Amendment the famous MillerAmendment that was presented in
the farm bill was also put intothe Appropriations Bill for
fiscal year 2025.
And, like every well-runbusiness, fiscal year 2025
(16:51):
Appropriations Bill has not beenpassed yet.
That needs to pass by September.
So good job our government inpassing your Appropriations Bill
in September of the year ofwhich you're operating.
Anyways, fiscal year 26 is nowalso being discussed.
This language has also beenincluded in the fiscal year 26
bill, but obviously 25 has toget settled before 26.
(17:14):
And either way, both are beingdiscussed.
We need to fix this.
And appropriations, as thisdiscussion is suggesting,
visited every year, and so nowhemp regulation is starting to
be included into an annuallyvisited bill, which is just
(17:35):
problematic.
We don't want to be fightingfor our lives every single year
and in this particular case,it's an existential crisis, so
it needs to be addressed.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:45):
And, that said, there is not bipartisan or
even within the party'sagreement over this issue.
Senator Rand Paul hasintroduced the Hemp Act, and the
Hemp Act seeks to raise THClimits, as part of the
definition of hemp, to 1% from0.3%, and this is looked at as a
(18:08):
countermeasure to preservemarket access as opposed to
limit it.
And Rand Paul is from themajority party, the Republicans.
So I think it remains to beseen whether the Republicans
that are pushing forwarddifferent temp language, be it a
(18:28):
prohibition or an expansion,are going to step up and make
this an issue worth fighting for, or if this language will just
get stripped from appropriationsin order to be able to move
forward able to move forward.
Ben Larson (18:45):
Well, and I think it'll be, probably at the moment
, I think it'll be reallytelling of the, the political
chess that goes on and in all ofthis you know, like we were
just talking about northcarolina and texas and the
signaling that those leaderswant to see a regulated hemp
industry to serve theirconstituents.
Those are the same constituentsthat those on the Hill, the
senators and houserepresentatives, are supposed to
(19:08):
represent.
It's just like a topsy-turvyupside down world when you're
comparing the state levelactions and what's happening at
the federal level.
But at some point it's allgoing to have to come together.
And I'm a business person.
I'm merely reporting, kind oflike, my observations of this.
I'm not a political pundit,anna Rae, I don't know how you
want to identify, but Not apolitical pundit.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:31):
The way that I see all of this is like what
I'm trying to learn and bestunderstand in order to
metabolize it, to understandwhat the opportunities are for
the businesses that I'm workingwith and that we're talking to,
because that's the reality isthat these laws, these
regulations, have realimplications to the people who
(19:51):
are living out the execution onthe ground and all these
different states and markets,and whether or not the
politicians remember it, doesreally affect lives and
opportunity, yeah, and so mypoint here is if you're
listening to this and be likethese guys are idiots like I
know what's happening Pleasereach out, let us know.
Ben Larson (20:11):
We'll get you on the show and you can give us the
real, the real news that'shappening either on the Hill or
in the States, but I don't thinkanyone really knows.
I think what thisadministration has proven to us
is that they like the art of thedeal and they like to keep
people on their toes and ontheir heels or whichever one is
the right analogy here.
But I feel like I'm on both.
(20:32):
I'm rocking from my heels to mytoes and I'm just trying to
navigate it the best that I can.
AnnaRae Grabstein (20:38):
With that.
Our understanding is thatinside the big beautiful, stinky
bill that is moving through theSenate as we record that, there
is language to strip priorprotections of state programs
from federal enforcement from abudgetary perspective.
(21:00):
And so this was a measure thatthe feds have for years chosen
not to put money behind effortsto enforce federal prohibitions
in states that have legalprograms.
And our understanding is thatthe big beautiful bill will
remove that, that budgetprohibition, and empower the
(21:23):
federal government to use, touse their money however they
want and if they want to be ableto go after state programs,
they could um yeah, which there.
Ben Larson (21:35):
There's so many concerning things about this and
many different just threadsthat my brain starts to take so.
So one of them the the actionsthat the current administration
has been taking through ICE andhow a lot of those attacks seem
to be happening in city centersin democratic states.
So when I see something likethis, I'm like it's a removal of
(21:57):
barriers and it's giving themleverage to use tools to do
whatever the hell they want,wherever they want.
This might be bad if you're aregulated cannabis operator.
I'd be extremely scared if Iwas a regulated cannabis
operator in a blue state.
Or maybe it's just a way forthe federal government to go
after the state government andloot their coffers for once,
(22:18):
instead of ours.
The other thing is is just thatI don't know it removes this
moral high ground that theregulated cannabis operators
often exert over theproliferating intoxicating hemp
market.
Right, it's like now we're bothon unsteady ground and we're
(22:39):
all fighting the same fight, andwe've been having this
conversation intoxicating hempis cannabis and all that fight,
and we've been having thisconversation hemp, intoxicating
hemp is cannabis and all allthat.
And so it's like kind of levels, the playing field as far as
like we're all fucking breakingthe law at this point, we're all
at risk and yeah, yeah, it'svery unsettling I, I do.
AnnaRae Grabstein (22:56):
I.
I think that you're queuing inon something that is very true,
which is the performative natureof a lot of the enforcement
that's been coming down in thefederal level.
Certainly what you were talkingabout about city centers, like
what happened in Los Angeles,and there was a whole bunch of
National Guard folks that, afterthings died down in Los Angeles
(23:17):
, were deployed as part of ahuge bust of an illegal, illicit
, unregulated part of a hugebust of an illegal, illicit,
unregulated, unlicensed growingoperation in the desert in
California.
But it played into thisperformative nature of putting
law enforcement's enforcementactions against different things
(23:39):
happening in states more in thepublic's eyes.
I think that there has been lawenforcement and and and things
coming up for a long time, butthis administration is making a
point to make sure that it'sit's ending up in people's
social feeds and that there'svideo and cameras there
documenting this type ofenforcement to really scare
(24:00):
people.
And I'm not feeling that.
So I would like it if the fedswould let our businesses move
forward with some type ofconfidence and some federal
reform would be awesome, butless prohibition would also be a
great great step.
Ben Larson (24:16):
Speaking of performative politics, should we
move to California?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:20):
Oh yeah, let's talk about California.
Ben Larson (24:23):
What's happening in California.
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:24):
So there's a lot happening in California.
Today is July 1.
And unfortunately in Californiathat means that the cannabis
excise tax at the retail levelfor consumers today just
increased 25%.
It went up from 15% to 19%, andthat's just the state excise
tax.
So if you're a cannabisconsumer at a dispensary you are
(24:47):
likely also paying sales tax,which is somewhere between nine
and ten percent plus thecannabis excise tax.
Plus there might also be othertaxes at a local level, a
cannabis tax that is not a statetax but is a municipal tax.
So it gets up close to 50% insome places.
(25:07):
And this was a massive, massivedisappointment to the California
cannabis industry that lobbiedreally hard to get an emergency
stop to this tax increase.
And this is after there was abill that has continued to move
through 546, sponsored by MattHaney of San Francisco, to stop
(25:29):
this tax increase, but that ismoving through the regular
legislative process and mightnot get signed even until
September, if at all.
And so in the meantime thiscannabis tax is happening, tax
is happening, and a few days agoGovernor Newsom loudly came out
and said if the legislatureputs something in front of me to
(25:51):
sign, I will stop the increasein cannabis taxes, knowing clear
well that there wasn't apathway for the legislature to
put something in front of himthat quickly.
I think that's thatperformativeness that maybe you
are referring to.
So we should pause.
Let's talk about the taxes.
But there's some otherimportant stuff going on in
California, also on theregulatory side, with testing
(26:13):
pesticides and molds as well.
What do you think about allthis tax stuff, ben?
Ben Larson (26:19):
I just this is me biting my tongue and not
exploding but like Newsome, whenhe decides he doesn't want
something, he has proven that heis willing to be creative and
wield a sword and ban the hempindustry.
(26:39):
He did that very quickly thehemp industry he did that very
quickly, and now he is virtue,signaling His support so clearly
of the cannabis industryBecause he could do something.
He allowed the Senate To blockand strip the tax freeze Out of
(27:00):
the current bill, and so, ifyou're going to help, actually
help Like.
He deserves every f***ing titlethat people have given him over
the years New scum, whateveryou want to call him he is and I
hope he runs for president sothat the entire state of
(27:22):
California can light him up forhow s how he's been as a
representative of the people who, yeah, I think that Newsom has,
on the surface, been aproponent of legal cannabis, but
when the industry has reallyneeded him, he has not been here
for us, and this tax issue justseals the deal so it's crazy,
(27:43):
it's like to fix thispeople.
People know like I'm involvedin both the hemp and cannabis
side, but we've been a we'vebeen a licensed cannabis entity
since 2018 and we've beensupportive of this category.
I'm supportive of this industryand have tried to like work our
way through it, but this is thefinal straw.
This is just a state thatdidn't legalize cannabis.
(28:07):
It was all performative theentire thing since 2016,.
It's been performativelegalization.
All they've done since 2016 istry to kill the cannabis
industry.
I was here, you were hereduring the Prop 215 days.
Those are the good old days.
AnnaRae Grabstein (28:22):
People made money.
They were happy, patients werewell served, lots of products in
the market.
We needed some quality control.
There needed to be someregulatory framework for
businesses to be able to haveconfidence and succeed, but what
we got with Prop 64 has been adisaster.
And in the midst of all of this, while this tax increase is
(28:43):
coming, it's on the back of theregulatory agency in the state,
the DC.
This, while this tax increaseis coming, it's on the back of
the regulatory agency in thestate, the DCC, also announcing
that they're down 11% year overyear in their tax collection,
and that is because the industryis shrinking.
And if they think that raisingthe taxes is going to do
anything other than continue toharm the top line performance of
(29:05):
anyone that's still alive inthis market, they are sorely
mistaken.
This is a big mistake.
Ben Larson (29:11):
This is why the Democratic Party has a huge
branding issue and I said we'renot political pundits, we're not
going to dive too deep intothat.
But you have New York electinga socialist mayor, you have
whatever the hell's happeninghere in california, but they're
killing capitalism, andcapitalism is the one thing that
has made california great.
It's the reason we get to claimbeing the fourth largest
(29:33):
economy in the world.
But that's not going to happen.
If you keep killing businessesand saying that we need to move
15 tax up to 19% tax, likeyou're going to force out all
the business and you're going tokill companies.
AnnaRae Grabstein (29:46):
Yeah, and on that note, there is other
regulatory stuff on the docket.
In California.
There's an open comment periodright now for an increase to
pesticide requirements for allcannabis traveling through the
legal supply chain for allcannabis traveling through the
(30:07):
legal supply chain and whilethis, on its head, is not a bad
thing and safety is superparamount and I don't want any
harmful pesticides to be presentin products for humans in the
supply chain we also have a bigproblem going on in the state of
California with themicrobiological contamination
requirements as well, and thereis a detect or no detect, pass
(30:31):
or fail requirement forAspergillus, and it's causing a
lot of punitive damage acrossthe supply chain.
And I just need the state ofCalifornia and the whole
industry to really think aboutcreating quality control
standards that are based inscience and safety and not fear
and lack of knowledge, becausewhat we're seeing is companies
(30:54):
that are truly being harmed bygetting these fails of whole
batches of product foraspergillus, and I'm just not
convinced that this is goodscience.
And Connected Cannabis, one ofthe most impactful, large,
well-known brands in the state,just filed a suit yesterday
(31:15):
suing the Department of CannabisControl alleging that their
recall process is unfair andpunitive and that this whole
Aspergillus system is broken.
And the state of Oregon had asimilar lawsuit a couple of
years ago and the cannabisoperators won and they rolled
back some of the aspergillusrequirements.
And I think the state ofCalifornia needs to take a
(31:36):
really hard look at theenvironment that they're
creating for operators and makesure that, as they're balancing
public safety, that they're alsolooking at real science and not
over-regulating the industry toa place that it just becomes
impossible to produce producthere, which is what it seems
like they're doing.
Ben Larson (31:55):
I mean I feel like I get a DCC recall notice every
day and I thought the point oftesting requirements was to
avoid that.
So just the whole system seemsbroken.
Yeah, I hear you and it wouldbe great politics could involve
science a lot more.
Like that.
That statement can be includedin any one of these
(32:18):
conversations that we've beentalking about, about hemp or
cannabis, anything.
It's just like it comes up whenwe talk about converted or or
synthetic cannabinoids likethere's good science that proves
, like that is a very viable wayto support a supply chain.
But politicians are just, theyget scared and they're looking
for a quick fix so they say banit.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:39):
and it's just , it's untenable, it's not
serving the people yeah, it'suntenable, and we we both
started our cannabis careershere in the state of California,
and so we have an outsizedcommitment and dedication to
hoping that we can figure thisout.
And it's it's not clear howit's all going to move forward,
(32:59):
and it seems like what the stateoperators in California are
having to spend time doing isfighting against it getting
worse, and that just seemsabsolutely absurd when the state
should be locking arms with thelicensed canvas operators right
now to figure out how to openup a clear path for them to
succeed.
If they're going to do thingslike shut down the hemp industry
(33:23):
that was just getting startedin the state, they need to face
head on that the environmentthat they're created for the
legal operators is not workingeither.
Otherwise, they're justcreating this massive
opportunity for the illicitcannabis market to to flourish.
Ben Larson (33:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's wild man.
That was a roller coaster.
I started out feeling verypositive about things and sorry
everyone for all the F-bombs,but you start talking about
California and the reality thatwe've been living for the last
eight plus years 10 years, Iguess you know, you and I have
(34:02):
tried to take a fairly neutralposition.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:05):
in a lot of ways.
We clearly have a have aposition when it comes to
cannabis reform, but we havebeen careful about pointing the
finger at at Newsom or at Trumpand everyone in between, because
we haven't wanted to box peopleout and we've wanted to remain
a place where everybody feltlike they could be a part of
this conversation.
(34:25):
But it's kind of escalatingrecently and it's and it's time
to just say it how it is and tospeak truth to power a little
bit.
So, uh, I feel a little bitmore emboldened than I have
before.
Ben Larson (34:38):
I mean, I mean it's kind of like what do we have to
lose Right?
Might as well be real, yeah,and it's and it's not like it's
Republican of like what do wehave to lose right?
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:42):
might as well be real yeah and it's, and it's
not like it's republican ordemocrats, like they're, they're
all messing up, uh.
So it's it's time for everybodyto just get on, get on board
and do better yeah we can dogood things, people.
We don't just have to take thelowest common denominator,
minimum viable approach.
Like we can do things that arethoughtful and strategic and
(35:05):
that can solve some of theseproblems in a creative way, if,
if people are willing to do thework.
I think yeah, amen.
Amen.
That said, let's talk about abusiness that's doing something
pretty innovative.
Ben Larson (35:18):
Business, not politics.
I think that that's a way tokeep things a little bit more
lighthearted.
I think that's a way to keepthings a little bit more
lighthearted.
AnnaRae Grabstein (35:24):
Yeah, let's do that.
Have you heard of Charlotte'sWeb folks?
I'm sure you have Early earlyentrance into the CBD space and
the founders of Charlotte's Web,the Stanley Brothers, are
turning their attention tomoving THC and other
psychoactive products likepsilocybin through the FDA.
Ben Larson (35:46):
Wow, wow, that's huge.
First credit to the Stanleybrothers and everything.
They are the ones who got meemotionally committed to the
cannabis industry and, yeah,coming out of out of the tech
sector and into cannabis.
Truthfully, like transparently,I mean I started a venture fund
(36:07):
so obviously I thought thatthere was a good capital
opportunity for me.
But pretty much immediately Istarted reading the stories
about Charlotte Figge and I wasstill traveling on kind of the
speaking circuit, especiallyacross Europe and was giving
talks and the stories aboutCharlotte and what the Stanley
(36:28):
Brothers did it would justcaptivate thousands of people
and just draw silence acrossthese crowds and it was so
powerful and I mean that ispretty much what ingrained in me
.
It's like this is what I haveto do with my career versus what
I can do to make money.
(36:49):
And so, yeah, huge, huge shoutout to them, but excited to see
them take it to the next level.
I think it's really good forthe brand of cannabis and this
whole conversation aboutcannabis is medicine.
AnnaRae Grabstein (37:00):
Yeah, and Epidiolex has passed through the
FDA's approval process and is acannabinoid based medicine, but
it's not intoxicating.
It's based off CBD and whatthese guys are doing now is
actually working on pushingthrough a THC derived medicine
and it's interesting in light ofthe conversation that has
(37:21):
gotten quieter as we talkedabout federal reform today.
We did not talk aboutrescheduling, but there was a
lot of discussion over the pastyear about rescheduling and the
move towards putting cannabisinto Schedule 3.
And while we talked a lot aboutthe business implications of
that being a elimination of 280Efor cannabis operators 280E for
(37:46):
cannabis operators the otherthing that a Schedule III
reclassification would do isopen the door to cannabis being
looked at as a medicine in adifferent way than it is today
and of creating a comfortabilityfor pharma companies to start
looking at the space in a waythat they haven't been up until
now.
And I think that this approachthat the Stanley brothers are
bringing THC to the FDA andlooking at getting approval for
(38:09):
a THC focused product asindicative of what I saw and
what I thought would happen withschedule three is more THC and
intoxicating medicines beingcreated and commercialized in
different, unique ways.
So I do think that this has thepotential to really disrupt
(38:29):
cannabinoid consumption andreach new consumers that we
aren't reaching now.
But we've been reaching a lotof new consumers with hemp
beverage and with hempcommercialization and I think
cannabinoid THC medicalizationthrough an FDA approved medicine
will broaden the umbrella evenmore to new demographics of
(38:50):
people that would never trycannabis for recreational
purposes.
So I do think it's exciting.
I think we'll see what happens,how successful they are.
It's not easy to get throughFDA.
Ben Larson (39:01):
No, no, it's very expensive, which they have very
strong backers, I'm told.
So that's very, very good, yeah, and it's a huge part of this
multi-pronged approach tonormalization, right and, and
how we think about medicine andhow we think about ingredients,
and if both can be true at thesame time, of there being a
pharmaceutical thc that is veryprescribed for medicine and is
(39:24):
backed by insurance and you cango to the grocery store and buy
a beverage, that is huge forchanging our perspective about
what is the versatility of thisplant and its ingredients?
AnnaRae Grabstein (39:38):
Yeah, the Forbes article about the
Charlotte's Web team looking atTHC is very focused on THC as a
pathway to support autism, whichis a hot topic, with RFK
Juniors, hhs, talking a lotabout autism.
Yeah, so I think that it'spossible that these guys might
(40:01):
find that they have some alliesat HHS.
Certainly, autism is somethingthat is being talked about on a
larger stage yeah we'll see whathappens and keep you up to date
.
Ben Larson (40:12):
if we go a couple layers deeper, I I have heard um
some utterances of us seeingrevisiting rescheduling come the
fall, so that that kind of alsostarts to fall in line and and
look, I mean bat, one of thebackers is like they've got deep
pockets and they know how tolobby.
This isn't happeninghaphazardly and I'm certain that
(40:36):
there's a lot more happeningbehind the scenes that shows
that this is potentially apositive signaling for the
trajectory of Schedule 3.
AnnaRae Grabstein (40:43):
Yeah, I agree , and a quick, quick drop of a
little bit of data that the oneother cannabinoid based medicine
, epidiolex, that is approved,did $972 million of sales last
year and is on track to achieve$1 billion of sales this year.
That one product and thefamilies are saying that THC
(41:04):
based autism drug that they'relooking to get approved, they
think could achieve far greatersuccess than Epidiolex.
So they have their eyes on thebillions, not the millions, of
what this product mean in themarket, which is pretty
substantial.
Ben Larson (41:20):
Well then, after you've been through the process
once for one application, youknow, we all know, thc has a
multitude of applications, soyou pick the pick.
The next ailment and I can onlyimagine that the approval
process is is that much smoother, um, getting through, because
you don't have to worry aboutdoing all the toxicity reporting
(41:40):
and all that kind of stuffright, wow.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:44):
so I think that's it for our news update,
you guys?
Oh my gosh, that was a lot.
Ben Larson (41:49):
That was intense.
I should take vacation moreoften.
It just kind of I don't knowit's been a busy news week or
things just compressed becauseI've been gone for a couple
weeks.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:59):
Yeah, you're looking a little red.
I can tell that all this stuffis heating you up.
Ben Larson (42:04):
I also spent two weeks in the sun, because it's
summer in Japan.
AnnaRae Grabstein (42:08):
Yeah Well, so I think, on the back of this
emotionally filled episode whereyou guys all heard from Ben and
I a little bit more about howwe feel about some of these
legislators, ben, why don't youdo the last calls today and
leave us with the final messagefor our listeners?
Ben Larson (42:27):
Last call, all right , well, I'm going to take it to
something adjacent, not cannabisrelated, let's see.
So, right before this, I had mytherapy session.
So it was nice to come backfrom my vacation, settle in and
do a therapy session whilethings felt really great and
(42:49):
going into it, it's like, oh,what are we going to talk about?
How great our trip was and allthe awesomeness that we are, and
it was amazing, hey.
So shout out to to matthew uh,he's an incredible couples
therapist and he was able todraw tears out when we didn't
even know something was underthe surface.
But that's not what this isabout, what we.
(43:09):
The big takeaway is to bepresent in conversations and be
truly present, no matter who itis your loved one, your business
partner, your coworker and notonly hear what the people are
saying, but seeing how they'resaying it and seeing what
they're feeling and trying tosee if the two align.
(43:31):
And I don't think that'ssomething that people spend
enough time doing, and I thinkit's hyper important for
business leaders cannabisbusiness leaders alike to do
that with their team.
All right, you're hearing onething, you're hearing how
they're feeling, but is itcongruent with their body
language and their facialexpressions and is there an
opportunity for you to dig alittle bit deeper and be a
(43:53):
little bit more curious, andit's a lesson that my wife and I
took away today.
I think it's something that Ipride myself in and I have that
tendency to seek that out, butit's also having the courage to
cross your gut and dig a littlebit deeper and just promote
(44:14):
deeper connection with whoeveryou're talking with.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:17):
I love that.
I think that I might want tohave a little last call after
your last call.
Ben Larson (44:24):
Let's do it To follow up on it.
Double last call.
Yeah, today's the day.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:28):
I like how you leaned into a lesson from
your relationship and took thatinto business.
And I think that there'ssomething that I've been
thinking about also that Ididn't talk about at my check-in
, and that is about what happenswhen we fail and how we get
back up in two ways.
I have been doing weighttraining, and part of the weight
(44:50):
training is all about figuringout where your muscles fail,
like pushing you to the edge ofwhere you literally can't lift
anymore and that actuallysymbolizes a win because it
helps you to understand whatyour limit is, and also like
where you are trying to go next.
And then also, I've talkedabout on the show before how my
son does jujitsu, and over theweekend he did his first
(45:11):
competition and he got his buttwhooped.
He lost hard and was devastatedand he just failed.
This kid that he went up againstwas a beast and took him down,
and as a parent I was faced withoh my gosh, how do I help, help
him navigate this feeling offailure?
(45:31):
His first thought was I should.
I don't want to go back tojujitsu.
I thought what we do not giveup.
We cannot give up.
We have to take these cues fromfailure and keep trying,
because that's part of thediscipline.
I guess that's what my lastcall will be too is that failure
can teach us tremendous lessons.
There's been a lot of failurewith hopes and dreams as it
(45:55):
relates to legislation, market,environments, all of those
things, but those failures arejust helping us to understand
what we need to do next and tokeep getting right back up.
Ben Larson (46:05):
I love that.
I love that.
I had a similar feeling withAlistair this past weekend
because he had a basketballtournament.
So he played two games and hewon the first game.
So I got to be excited aboutthat, he got to be excited about
that, and then they got theirbutt whooped in the second game
and I'm like, oh, this is good,this is character building.
So it's like a little humilityis healthy for a seven year old.
So I hope he bounces back.
(46:26):
I hope he gets back in the ringand pours that W for himself.
AnnaRae Grabstein (46:30):
I hope so too .
We're going to process it andfigure out how to understand
that failure can just be fuelfor the fire.
Ben Larson (46:37):
Yeah Well, man, if that isn't indicative of our
journey in the cannabis industry, I don't know what is.
But what do you think, folks?
I am so grateful to be back.
I what do you think, folks?
I am so grateful to be back.
I'm grateful for you.
Thank you for watching, forlistening, for engaging.
Thank you to our teams atVirtosa and Wolfmeyer.
Thank you to our producer, ericRossetti.
(46:57):
If you've enjoyed this episode,please drop us a review, a
rating on Apple Podcasts,spotify or wherever you listen.
Smash that subscribe on YouTube.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, as always.
That subscribe on YouTube.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As always, folks stay curious,stay informed and, most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh Until next time.
(47:19):
That's the show.
This is the final straw Like.
This is just a state thatdidn't legalize cannabis.
It was all performative, theentire thing Since 2016,.
It's been performativelegalization and all they've
done since 2016 is try to killthe cannabis industry.
I was here, you were hereduring the Prop 215 days.
Those are the good old days.
Hey everybody, welcome toepisode 95 of High Spirits.
(00:35):
I'm Ben Larson and with me, asalways, is Anna Rae Grabstein,
recording Thursday July 1st 2025.
And I'm back from vacation.
Good thing, nothing bighappened over the last two weeks
.
We have a cannabis businessnews roundup for you.
This week.
We'll be talking about the vetoof SB3 in Texas.
(00:55):
We have North Carolina and thegutting of House Bill 328.
We have an appropriations bill,a big, beautiful bill.
Many, many things to talk about, and we'll get there.
But first I need to check inwith my co-host, anna Rae.
Anna Rae, how are you doing?
Do you miss me?
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:13):
I'm good.
I miss you so much, ben.
You've been in Japan texting meincredible photos of food which
I can't wait to hear all aboutMe.
I have been working away thecrazy wilds of summer and
cannabis, uh.
But the big news you know onthe home front is that my kid is
at summer camp for the firsttime ever.
Ben Larson (01:34):
Sleep away camp oh, sleep away camp yeah, you're
basically like having vacationat home that's exactly right.
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:43):
So I, what my husband and I talked about, was
like, well, should we go out oftown?
It was like heck, no, we shouldstay home.
Our kid, isn't here.
And so we decided that we weregoing to cancel dinner, Like we
aren't allowed to talk aboutdinner all week, which if you
are a parent you know it's kindof like the bane of all parents.
(02:03):
Existence is to what is fordinner.
So we're still eating in theevenings, but we're not using
the word dinner, and it mightjust like be whatever's in the
fridge or a snack at the cheeseplate.
It's exactly right and like alot of desserts, so many
desserts.
And so, to top it all off, wehave a hot tub in our backyard.
It's beautiful, sonoma County.
(02:24):
We we had our not dinner atabout 9pm last night and then we
went out into the hot tub forlike a lovely no kid evening and
we were basking in the glory.
After about 10 minutes I lookedat my husband and I said do you
smell that it's taking a turn?
It's taking a turn.
He said no, what are youtalking about?
(02:46):
It smells something funny.
The hot tub is it mildewy?
What's going on?
Our hot tub is always reallypristine and nice and he turns
on the light in the hot tub,which we had had off.
It was dark and lovely andthere were dead frogs in.
Oh, no.
Yeah, all romance averted Moodkiller.
And I was like I screamed.
(03:10):
I get out, I wrap my towelaround myself.
I look at him like, uh-oh, doyou need my help?
What do I do?
I need to take a shower.
I'm going to smell you frogstoo and run inside.
So anyway, it's the adventuresof of being childless.
Is is not as quite romanticalas we are hoping so far, but
(03:31):
we're working on it and it'sbeen great either way.
Ben Larson (03:33):
So I'm I'm doing well.
Thanks to the frogs for keepingthe show PG All right.
We we also were childish,childish.
We were childish and childlessfor two weeks, which was really
incredible.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:48):
Isn't it funny how you get rid of your
kids and then you actuallybecome childish again.
I love that you said that, yeah.
Ben Larson (03:54):
Yeah, freudian slip, but your schedule becomes
whatever it is that you want,you eat whatever you want, you
do whatever you want, and theonly thing different now is that
hopefully you have money to doit right.
And there were hot tubs, therewas a lot of great food,
incredible sites.
My first day there, it was acombination of me being alone.
(04:17):
I didn't meet up with my wifeuntil three days later and I was
around Tokyo.
I was getting reacquainted withmy camera and fighting, making
sure I didn't get jet lag.
So I got like 30,000 steps inmy first day and I saw a ton of
Tokyo and I just it was a blast,it was hot, it was, it was.
It was hot and humid.
(04:37):
So there's a lot of sweat, butI also just put it in my head.
I'm like, oh, it's like beingin a sauna all day and, yeah, it
was a great time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:45):
That's so cool.
I can't wait to go to Japan.
You've really inspired me, tellme a little bit the cannabis
scene is like in Japan,non-existent.
Ben Larson (04:55):
I mean, I saw two CBD shops in two different
cities.
There was some CBD gummies Isaw that were oddly, I will say,
here in the US we're hyperaware of making sure that we're
not advertising to children, beit hemp or alcohol.
I know alcohol is a little bitof a slippery conversation, but
(05:16):
for the most part there'salcohol sections and it's clear.
We were walking around somestores where you'd be looking at
Legos and then all of a suddenyou look to the right and
there's like a handle of whiskeyand then you turn a little bit
further and then there's the 18only section where there's like
vibrators and all this kind ofstuff and it's all branded the
same.
It's like big, bold, cutecartoons and I'm just I'm like
(05:39):
holy shit, like norm, our friendat the fda would just have a
heart attack walking through, uh, this grocery store and so,
yeah, that part was interesting,but I didn't smell weed for two
weeks and that was reallyinteresting because anytime
you're walking around here,especially in the bay area, you
know you walk around the corner,you get, you get hit with a
(06:01):
nice cloud and, depending on whoyou are, you either really
enjoy it or you're disgusted.
Um.
Myself I love the smell of weedand so that was like that was
an interesting aspect.
So we have some work to dothere, but otherwise, dream
vacation.
Everything is so well organized, so efficient, such like a
hospitality bent to everything,like nothing is.
(06:22):
There's just no entitlementfrom the service side.
Right, they live to serve andthey take such pride in
everything they do, from thefood to the crossing guards.
I wrote a post about it onlinkedin, posted some pictures,
yeah, but yeah, it's just reallyimpressed I.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:39):
hospitality is something that is sorely
lacking in the US these days.
I think the pandemic killedservice.
I grew up in a restaurant.
My family ran an Italianrestaurant and I would spend
after school days there, andthen, once I got my first job, I
worked in a coffee shop in highschool and I think that
hospitality prepared me forcannabis just as well as my
(07:04):
business school MBA educationdid.
It was to learn about servingpeople, because this really is a
service business, and thinkingabout what it is that people
want, meeting them where theyare those are all things that
you learn in such a hands-on waywhen you work in the service
space, so it's good to see thatservice is still alive somewhere
.
Ben Larson (07:22):
Yeah, no, it's something I'm hyper aware of and
, like you know, I'm still I'm alittle old school in that
fashion like it significantlyaffects the tip that I want to
give and I say want because II'm also a generous giver.
I spent time as a server incollege and I think that people
that do do hospitality of somesort, or even just retail, like
(07:46):
where you have to serve thecustomer at an early age, like
it shapes you and so oftentimeswhen I'm interviewing people
I'll ask them I'm like, what didyou do in college to make money
or to get by?
And I think it's just verytelling about, like, how that
person is wired obviouslydoesn't determine whether
they're hired or not, butcertainly gives them some bonus
points if they say they were awaiter or a busser or or a bag
(08:10):
person amazing.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:13):
Uh well, we have missed all of you.
To our listeners out there, benand I have been separate.
Now this is.
It's been three weeks sincewe've recorded together.
There's two episodes this isour longest break since we
started and it's episode 95, 95it's a lot, and it's it's been
two years since we've been doingthis every week with y'all, so,
(08:34):
um, thanks everyone for forcoming and let's jump in.
Ben Larson (08:38):
Let's, uh, let's talk about texas, texas yeah, so
texas governor greg abbott,texas yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:44):
So Texas Governor Greg Abbott shocked the
cannabis world when he vetoedSB3, maybe shocked some people.
Other people worked really hardto get that veto, preserving
the state's hemp industry fornow.
Ben Larson (08:58):
Yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:59):
But what is about to happen, Ben?
Ben Larson (09:02):
Yeah.
So there's a special sessionstarting in 20 days where the
legislature will come togetherand try to decide on the path
forward and this will determinewhat the hemp situation is in
Texas for the next two years andit'll be final right.
And so I think there's a lot ofpeople that are saying, yes, we
(09:23):
want regulations, we just don'twant prohibition, and there's a
little theme that is startingto roll out across the US about
this.
But I think, as long as thoseregulations aren't hyper
restrictive and look a lot likethe CUP program, that people
will generally be happy.
A lot of the hemp industry hasbeen calling for regulations and
structure and things that makepublic safety feel safe, but
(09:46):
what we also might get is justthe status quo, which is this
crazy hemp industry that istotally growing and on fire and,
I think, anywhere between thosetwo.
Personally, I'm happy.
I was laying in bed in Japanand got news that the veto came
through and I was tracking itvery closely and, yeah, it was
(10:10):
just one of those moments.
I'm like holy shit, it happenedand there was just so much that
went into that and so many jobs, so much revenue and a
signaling to the rest of thehemp and cannabis industry about
where reefer madness is placesin society these days.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:27):
Well, there was a lot of reefer madness
leading up to this veto and alot of misinformation in Texas
about the difference betweencannabis and hemp and and how,
what was happening to people asa result of consuming cannabis,
and just a lot of fear, whichwas really, really disheartening
for people who spend a lot oftime good people trying to do
the right thing.
(10:48):
At the same time, we know thatthere has been a lack of
oversight in Texas and I thinkwhat the governor is calling for
is more guardrails and I'minterested to see what those
guardrails are and if certainproducts or form factors are
reined in in Texas and ifthere's potency restrictions or
limitations, especially because,while the governor vetoed the
(11:13):
hemp prohibition, he greenlitthe expansion of the medical
program and now the regulatorsare required by the end of the
year to license nine additionalmedical providers in Texas and a
total of 15 licenses need to beissued by April of next year,
which means that there is goingto be more competition and
(11:37):
business happening in themedical space in Texas and those
folks are going to need to beset up to succeed and I do think
that the legislature, asthey're considering the
governor's request to regulatethe industry, are going to be
weighing what is the right pathfor both spaces to exist, so
that there can bedifferentiation between what's
(11:58):
happening in the medical marketand what's happening in the hemp
side of the market.
But we know that things arecomplicated because the industry
got really big withoutoversight in the state, and so
there's a lot of people thathave a lot to lose, and we'll
see what happens starting onJuly 21st.
Ben Larson (12:14):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm interested to see how it affects
the conversation going into2026, not to put the cart before
the horse, but like we see whatcan happen if we don't get
proactive about putting inregulations that do promote
public safety and some control,responsible control and so maybe
(12:35):
what this will do is create alot more opportunity for seeing
proactive hemp bills coming tothe table for the 2026
legislative session proactivehemp bills coming to the table
for the 2026 legislative session.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:53):
I agree, and I think that had the governor
decided to let SB3 move forwardinstead of veto it, there was a
lot of indication that otherstates would take that as a
signal as well.
So hopefully this is going tobe a signal that Texas is going
to be a leader here and dosomething that's good.
This is going to be a signalthat.
Ben Larson (13:04):
Texas is going to be a leader here and do something.
That's, that's good, yeah.
The immediate one that followedwas was North Carolina right,
like there was House Bill 328,the Protecting Our Community Act
.
It surfaced very close to theend of session and was being
railroaded through, and itbasically was another
prohibition to hemp likemovement and, long story short,
(13:26):
all that came out of it reallywas seemed to be uh, the 21 age
restriction and then removingsynthetic cannabinoids, and so I
think this is another examplethat we need regulations and not
prohibition, and I just wonderit's like it has happened in
(13:48):
such close concert with whathappened in Texas Like, would
that outcome have been differenthad Texas not done the veto?
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:54):
Yeah, what occurs to me when I see this
North Carolina update is thatthis is really becoming adult
use cannabis.
When a state moves to regulatehemp, like what North Carolina
is doing, they're creating asystem to access cannabinoids,
and in a state like NorthCarolina that does not have an
(14:17):
adult use cannabis program,they're doing that type of work,
as they're thinking about it,that we've seen happen in other
states with cannabis programs,and just doing it within a
different ecosystem in terms ofthe input ingredient that these
products are going to have andopening up different channels
for retail access and consumersto access these products.
(14:39):
But it just reminds me of theways that states have discussed
what type of regulations theywant for adult use cannabis and
now they're just using thosesame ideas and, instead of
prohibiting these products,they're thinking about how to
make it safe for people to beable to access them.
So I like to see it.
Ben Larson (14:59):
Yeah yeah, another version of red state weed.
Like what we talked about withHersh back on episode 36.
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:07):
Yeah, that's right.
Ben Larson (15:08):
Yeah, but you know, all this might be moot in the
future Hopefully not, probablynot, I'd like to say but there's
some pretty big, scary thingshappening at the federal level.
I think we should talk aboutthat first before we settle on
our home state of california,which is its own hot mess of a
situation.
(15:29):
So there's like multiple bigbills, some of them beautiful.
Uh, that are, I think ugly,ugly, ugly, ugly.
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:39):
Bills, ugly, ugly bills.
Ben Larson (15:41):
Not beautiful big ugly bills some of them called
the big beautiful bill that havevery significant impacts on
cannabis and hemp.
So which one do you want tostart with?
The appropriations bill, thebig beautiful bill?
AnnaRae Grabstein (15:56):
Yeah, let's talk about the appropriations
bill.
I talked about getting in myhot tub last night and it being
like smelly frog soup.
That's what the appropriationsbill is.
This is some smelly frog soup.
That's what the appropriationsbill is.
This is some smelly frog soup.
This is controversial languagethat could redefine hemp in a
way that would virtually ban allconsumable products that are
(16:19):
intoxicating in any way.
So, really, thc and everythingthat is like thc yeah, that is
what is being proposed in thisbill.
Ben Larson (16:27):
Yeah, and it's complicated.
There's the fiscal year 25appropriations bill where this
first came up, so this became anissue last year.
I don't know how much attentionit got not much, but the Miller
Amendment the famous MillerAmendment that was presented in
the farm bill was also put intothe Appropriations Bill for
fiscal year 2025.
And, like every well-runbusiness, fiscal year 2025
(16:51):
Appropriations Bill has not beenpassed yet.
That needs to pass by September.
So good job our government inpassing your Appropriations Bill
in September of the year ofwhich you're operating.
Anyways, fiscal year 26 is nowalso being discussed.
This language has also beenincluded in the fiscal year 26
bill, but obviously 25 has toget settled before 26.
(17:14):
And either way, both are beingdiscussed.
We need to fix this.
And appropriations, as thisdiscussion is suggesting,
visited every year, and so nowhemp regulation is starting to
be included into an annuallyvisited bill, which is just
(17:35):
problematic.
We don't want to be fightingfor our lives every single year
and in this particular case,it's an existential crisis, so
it needs to be addressed.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:45):
And, that said, there is not bipartisan or
even within the party'sagreement over this issue.
Senator Rand Paul hasintroduced the Hemp Act, and the
Hemp Act seeks to raise THClimits, as part of the
definition of hemp, to 1% from0.3%, and this is looked at as a
(18:08):
countermeasure to preservemarket access as opposed to
limit it.
And Rand Paul is from themajority party, the Republicans.
So I think it remains to beseen whether the Republicans
that are pushing forwarddifferent temp language, be it a
(18:28):
prohibition or an expansion,are going to step up and make
this an issue worth fighting for, or if this language will just
get stripped from appropriationsin order to be able to move
forward able to move forward.
Ben Larson (18:45):
Well, and I think it'll be, probably at the moment
, I think it'll be reallytelling of the, the political
chess that goes on and in all ofthis you know, like we were
just talking about northcarolina and texas and the
signaling that those leaderswant to see a regulated hemp
industry to serve theirconstituents.
Those are the same constituentsthat those on the Hill, the
senators and houserepresentatives, are supposed to
(19:08):
represent.
It's just like a topsy-turvyupside down world when you're
comparing the state levelactions and what's happening at
the federal level.
But at some point it's allgoing to have to come together.
And I'm a business person.
I'm merely reporting, kind oflike, my observations of this.
I'm not a political pundit,anna Rae, I don't know how you
want to identify, but Not apolitical pundit.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:31):
The way that I see all of this is like what
I'm trying to learn and bestunderstand in order to
metabolize it, to understandwhat the opportunities are for
the businesses that I'm workingwith and that we're talking to,
because that's the reality isthat these laws, these
regulations, have realimplications to the people who
(19:51):
are living out the execution onthe ground and all these
different states and markets,and whether or not the
politicians remember it, doesreally affect lives and
opportunity, yeah, and so mypoint here is if you're
listening to this and be likethese guys are idiots like I
know what's happening Pleasereach out, let us know.
Ben Larson (20:11):
We'll get you on the show and you can give us the
real, the real news that'shappening either on the Hill or
in the States, but I don't thinkanyone really knows.
I think what thisadministration has proven to us
is that they like the art of thedeal and they like to keep
people on their toes and ontheir heels or whichever one is
the right analogy here.
But I feel like I'm on both.
(20:32):
I'm rocking from my heels to mytoes and I'm just trying to
navigate it the best that I can.
AnnaRae Grabstein (20:38):
With that.
Our understanding is thatinside the big beautiful, stinky
bill that is moving through theSenate as we record that, there
is language to strip priorprotections of state programs
from federal enforcement from abudgetary perspective.
(21:00):
And so this was a measure thatthe feds have for years chosen
not to put money behind effortsto enforce federal prohibitions
in states that have legalprograms.
And our understanding is thatthe big beautiful bill will
remove that, that budgetprohibition, and empower the
(21:23):
federal government to use, touse their money however they
want and if they want to be ableto go after state programs,
they could um yeah, which there.
Ben Larson (21:35):
There's so many concerning things about this and
many different just threadsthat my brain starts to take so.
So one of them the the actionsthat the current administration
has been taking through ICE andhow a lot of those attacks seem
to be happening in city centersin democratic states.
So when I see something likethis, I'm like it's a removal of
(21:57):
barriers and it's giving themleverage to use tools to do
whatever the hell they want,wherever they want.
This might be bad if you're aregulated cannabis operator.
I'd be extremely scared if Iwas a regulated cannabis
operator in a blue state.
Or maybe it's just a way forthe federal government to go
after the state government andloot their coffers for once,
(22:18):
instead of ours.
The other thing is is just thatI don't know it removes this
moral high ground that theregulated cannabis operators
often exert over theproliferating intoxicating hemp
market.
Right, it's like now we're bothon unsteady ground and we're
(22:39):
all fighting the same fight, andwe've been having this
conversation intoxicating hempis cannabis and all that fight,
and we've been having thisconversation hemp, intoxicating
hemp is cannabis and all allthat.
And so it's like kind of levels, the playing field as far as
like we're all fucking breakingthe law at this point, we're all
at risk and yeah, yeah, it'svery unsettling I, I do.
AnnaRae Grabstein (22:56):
I.
I think that you're queuing inon something that is very true,
which is the performative natureof a lot of the enforcement
that's been coming down in thefederal level.
Certainly what you were talkingabout about city centers, like
what happened in Los Angeles,and there was a whole bunch of
National Guard folks that, afterthings died down in Los Angeles
(23:17):
, were deployed as part of ahuge bust of an illegal, illicit
, unregulated part of a hugebust of an illegal, illicit,
unregulated, unlicensed growingoperation in the desert in
California.
But it played into thisperformative nature of putting
law enforcement's enforcementactions against different things
(23:39):
happening in states more in thepublic's eyes.
I think that there has been lawenforcement and and and things
coming up for a long time, butthis administration is making a
point to make sure that it'sit's ending up in people's
social feeds and that there'svideo and cameras there
documenting this type ofenforcement to really scare
(24:00):
people.
And I'm not feeling that.
So I would like it if the fedswould let our businesses move
forward with some type ofconfidence and some federal
reform would be awesome, butless prohibition would also be a
great great step.
Ben Larson (24:16):
Speaking of performative politics, should we
move to California?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:20):
Oh yeah, let's talk about California.
Ben Larson (24:23):
What's happening in California.
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:24):
So there's a lot happening in California.
Today is July 1.
And unfortunately in Californiathat means that the cannabis
excise tax at the retail levelfor consumers today just
increased 25%.
It went up from 15% to 19%, andthat's just the state excise
tax.
So if you're a cannabisconsumer at a dispensary you are
(24:47):
likely also paying sales tax,which is somewhere between nine
and ten percent plus thecannabis excise tax.
Plus there might also be othertaxes at a local level, a
cannabis tax that is not a statetax but is a municipal tax.
So it gets up close to 50% insome places.
(25:07):
And this was a massive, massivedisappointment to the California
cannabis industry that lobbiedreally hard to get an emergency
stop to this tax increase.
And this is after there was abill that has continued to move
through 546, sponsored by MattHaney of San Francisco, to stop
(25:29):
this tax increase, but that ismoving through the regular
legislative process and mightnot get signed even until
September, if at all.
And so in the meantime thiscannabis tax is happening, tax
is happening, and a few days agoGovernor Newsom loudly came out
and said if the legislatureputs something in front of me to
(25:51):
sign, I will stop the increasein cannabis taxes, knowing clear
well that there wasn't apathway for the legislature to
put something in front of himthat quickly.
I think that's thatperformativeness that maybe you
are referring to.
So we should pause.
Let's talk about the taxes.
But there's some otherimportant stuff going on in
California, also on theregulatory side, with testing
(26:13):
pesticides and molds as well.
What do you think about allthis tax stuff, ben?
Ben Larson (26:19):
I just this is me biting my tongue and not
exploding but like Newsome, whenhe decides he doesn't want
something, he has proven that heis willing to be creative and
wield a sword and ban the hempindustry.
(26:39):
He did that very quickly thehemp industry he did that very
quickly, and now he is virtue,signaling His support so clearly
of the cannabis industryBecause he could do something.
He allowed the Senate To blockand strip the tax freeze Out of
(27:00):
the current bill, and so, ifyou're going to help, actually
help Like.
He deserves every f***ing titlethat people have given him over
the years New scum, whateveryou want to call him he is and I
hope he runs for president sothat the entire state of
(27:22):
California can light him up forhow s how he's been as a
representative of the people who, yeah, I think that Newsom has,
on the surface, been aproponent of legal cannabis, but
when the industry has reallyneeded him, he has not been here
for us, and this tax issue justseals the deal so it's crazy,
(27:43):
it's like to fix thispeople.
People know like I'm involvedin both the hemp and cannabis
side, but we've been a we'vebeen a licensed cannabis entity
since 2018 and we've beensupportive of this category.
I'm supportive of this industryand have tried to like work our
way through it, but this is thefinal straw.
This is just a state thatdidn't legalize cannabis.
(28:07):
It was all performative theentire thing since 2016,.
It's been performativelegalization.
All they've done since 2016 istry to kill the cannabis
industry.
I was here, you were hereduring the Prop 215 days.
Those are the good old days.
AnnaRae Grabstein (28:22):
People made money.
They were happy, patients werewell served, lots of products in
the market.
We needed some quality control.
There needed to be someregulatory framework for
businesses to be able to haveconfidence and succeed, but what
we got with Prop 64 has been adisaster.
And in the midst of all of this, while this tax increase is
(28:43):
coming, it's on the back of theregulatory agency in the state,
the DC.
This, while this tax increaseis coming, it's on the back of
the regulatory agency in thestate, the DCC, also announcing
that they're down 11% year overyear in their tax collection,
and that is because the industryis shrinking.
And if they think that raisingthe taxes is going to do
anything other than continue toharm the top line performance of
(29:05):
anyone that's still alive inthis market, they are sorely
mistaken.
This is a big mistake.
Ben Larson (29:11):
This is why the Democratic Party has a huge
branding issue and I said we'renot political pundits, we're not
going to dive too deep intothat.
But you have New York electinga socialist mayor, you have
whatever the hell's happeninghere in california, but they're
killing capitalism, andcapitalism is the one thing that
has made california great.
It's the reason we get to claimbeing the fourth largest
(29:33):
economy in the world.
But that's not going to happen.
If you keep killing businessesand saying that we need to move
15 tax up to 19% tax, likeyou're going to force out all
the business and you're going tokill companies.
AnnaRae Grabstein (29:46):
Yeah, and on that note, there is other
regulatory stuff on the docket.
In California.
There's an open comment periodright now for an increase to
pesticide requirements for allcannabis traveling through the
legal supply chain for allcannabis traveling through the
(30:07):
legal supply chain and whilethis, on its head, is not a bad
thing and safety is superparamount and I don't want any
harmful pesticides to be presentin products for humans in the
supply chain we also have a bigproblem going on in the state of
California with themicrobiological contamination
requirements as well, and thereis a detect or no detect, pass
(30:31):
or fail requirement forAspergillus, and it's causing a
lot of punitive damage acrossthe supply chain.
And I just need the state ofCalifornia and the whole
industry to really think aboutcreating quality control
standards that are based inscience and safety and not fear
and lack of knowledge, becausewhat we're seeing is companies
(30:54):
that are truly being harmed bygetting these fails of whole
batches of product foraspergillus, and I'm just not
convinced that this is goodscience.
And Connected Cannabis, one ofthe most impactful, large,
well-known brands in the state,just filed a suit yesterday
(31:15):
suing the Department of CannabisControl alleging that their
recall process is unfair andpunitive and that this whole
Aspergillus system is broken.
And the state of Oregon had asimilar lawsuit a couple of
years ago and the cannabisoperators won and they rolled
back some of the aspergillusrequirements.
And I think the state ofCalifornia needs to take a
(31:36):
really hard look at theenvironment that they're
creating for operators and makesure that, as they're balancing
public safety, that they're alsolooking at real science and not
over-regulating the industry toa place that it just becomes
impossible to produce producthere, which is what it seems
like they're doing.
Ben Larson (31:55):
I mean I feel like I get a DCC recall notice every
day and I thought the point oftesting requirements was to
avoid that.
So just the whole system seemsbroken.
Yeah, I hear you and it wouldbe great politics could involve
science a lot more.
Like that.
That statement can be includedin any one of these
(32:18):
conversations that we've beentalking about, about hemp or
cannabis, anything.
It's just like it comes up whenwe talk about converted or or
synthetic cannabinoids likethere's good science that proves
, like that is a very viable wayto support a supply chain.
But politicians are just, theyget scared and they're looking
for a quick fix so they say banit.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:39):
and it's just , it's untenable, it's not
serving the people yeah, it'suntenable, and we we both
started our cannabis careershere in the state of California,
and so we have an outsizedcommitment and dedication to
hoping that we can figure thisout.
And it's it's not clear howit's all going to move forward,
(32:59):
and it seems like what the stateoperators in California are
having to spend time doing isfighting against it getting
worse, and that just seemsabsolutely absurd when the state
should be locking arms with thelicensed canvas operators right
now to figure out how to openup a clear path for them to
succeed.
If they're going to do thingslike shut down the hemp industry
(33:23):
that was just getting startedin the state, they need to face
head on that the environmentthat they're created for the
legal operators is not workingeither.
Otherwise, they're justcreating this massive
opportunity for the illicitcannabis market to to flourish.
Ben Larson (33:40):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's wild man.
That was a roller coaster.
I started out feeling verypositive about things and sorry
everyone for all the F-bombs,but you start talking about
California and the reality thatwe've been living for the last
eight plus years 10 years, Iguess you know, you and I have
(34:02):
tried to take a fairly neutralposition.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:05):
in a lot of ways.
We clearly have a have aposition when it comes to
cannabis reform, but we havebeen careful about pointing the
finger at at Newsom or at Trumpand everyone in between, because
we haven't wanted to box peopleout and we've wanted to remain
a place where everybody feltlike they could be a part of
this conversation.
(34:25):
But it's kind of escalatingrecently and it's and it's time
to just say it how it is and tospeak truth to power a little
bit.
So, uh, I feel a little bitmore emboldened than I have
before.
Ben Larson (34:38):
I mean, I mean it's kind of like what do we have to
lose Right?
Might as well be real, yeah,and it's and it's not like it's
Republican of like what do wehave to lose right?
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:42):
might as well be real yeah and it's, and it's
not like it's republican ordemocrats, like they're, they're
all messing up, uh.
So it's it's time for everybodyto just get on, get on board
and do better yeah we can dogood things, people.
We don't just have to take thelowest common denominator,
minimum viable approach.
Like we can do things that arethoughtful and strategic and
(35:05):
that can solve some of theseproblems in a creative way, if,
if people are willing to do thework.
I think yeah, amen.
Amen.
That said, let's talk about abusiness that's doing something
pretty innovative.
Ben Larson (35:18):
Business, not politics.
I think that that's a way tokeep things a little bit more
lighthearted.
I think that's a way to keepthings a little bit more
lighthearted.
AnnaRae Grabstein (35:24):
Yeah, let's do that.
Have you heard of Charlotte'sWeb folks?
I'm sure you have Early earlyentrance into the CBD space and
the founders of Charlotte's Web,the Stanley Brothers, are
turning their attention tomoving THC and other
psychoactive products likepsilocybin through the FDA.
Ben Larson (35:46):
Wow, wow, that's huge.
First credit to the Stanleybrothers and everything.
They are the ones who got meemotionally committed to the
cannabis industry and, yeah,coming out of out of the tech
sector and into cannabis.
Truthfully, like transparently,I mean I started a venture fund
(36:07):
so obviously I thought thatthere was a good capital
opportunity for me.
But pretty much immediately Istarted reading the stories
about Charlotte Figge and I wasstill traveling on kind of the
speaking circuit, especiallyacross Europe and was giving
talks and the stories aboutCharlotte and what the Stanley
(36:28):
Brothers did it would justcaptivate thousands of people
and just draw silence acrossthese crowds and it was so
powerful and I mean that ispretty much what ingrained in me
.
It's like this is what I haveto do with my career versus what
I can do to make money.
(36:49):
And so, yeah, huge, huge shoutout to them, but excited to see
them take it to the next level.
I think it's really good forthe brand of cannabis and this
whole conversation aboutcannabis is medicine.
AnnaRae Grabstein (37:00):
Yeah, and Epidiolex has passed through the
FDA's approval process and is acannabinoid based medicine, but
it's not intoxicating.
It's based off CBD and whatthese guys are doing now is
actually working on pushingthrough a THC derived medicine
and it's interesting in light ofthe conversation that has
(37:21):
gotten quieter as we talkedabout federal reform today.
We did not talk aboutrescheduling, but there was a
lot of discussion over the pastyear about rescheduling and the
move towards putting cannabisinto Schedule 3.
And while we talked a lot aboutthe business implications of
that being a elimination of 280Efor cannabis operators 280E for
(37:46):
cannabis operators the otherthing that a Schedule III
reclassification would do isopen the door to cannabis being
looked at as a medicine in adifferent way than it is today
and of creating a comfortabilityfor pharma companies to start
looking at the space in a waythat they haven't been up until
now.
And I think that this approachthat the Stanley brothers are
bringing THC to the FDA andlooking at getting approval for
(38:09):
a THC focused product asindicative of what I saw and
what I thought would happen withschedule three is more THC and
intoxicating medicines beingcreated and commercialized in
different, unique ways.
So I do think that this has thepotential to really disrupt
(38:29):
cannabinoid consumption andreach new consumers that we
aren't reaching now.
But we've been reaching a lotof new consumers with hemp
beverage and with hempcommercialization and I think
cannabinoid THC medicalizationthrough an FDA approved medicine
will broaden the umbrella evenmore to new demographics of
(38:50):
people that would never trycannabis for recreational
purposes.
So I do think it's exciting.
I think we'll see what happens,how successful they are.
It's not easy to get throughFDA.
Ben Larson (39:01):
No, no, it's very expensive, which they have very
strong backers, I'm told.
So that's very, very good, yeah, and it's a huge part of this
multi-pronged approach tonormalization, right and, and
how we think about medicine andhow we think about ingredients,
and if both can be true at thesame time, of there being a
pharmaceutical thc that is veryprescribed for medicine and is
(39:24):
backed by insurance and you cango to the grocery store and buy
a beverage, that is huge forchanging our perspective about
what is the versatility of thisplant and its ingredients?
AnnaRae Grabstein (39:38):
Yeah, the Forbes article about the
Charlotte's Web team looking atTHC is very focused on THC as a
pathway to support autism, whichis a hot topic, with RFK
Juniors, hhs, talking a lotabout autism.
Yeah, so I think that it'spossible that these guys might
(40:01):
find that they have some alliesat HHS.
Certainly, autism is somethingthat is being talked about on a
larger stage yeah we'll see whathappens and keep you up to date
.
Ben Larson (40:12):
if we go a couple layers deeper, I I have heard um
some utterances of us seeingrevisiting rescheduling come the
fall, so that that kind of alsostarts to fall in line and and
look, I mean bat, one of thebackers is like they've got deep
pockets and they know how tolobby.
This isn't happeninghaphazardly and I'm certain that
(40:36):
there's a lot more happeningbehind the scenes that shows
that this is potentially apositive signaling for the
trajectory of Schedule 3.
AnnaRae Grabstein (40:43):
Yeah, I agree , and a quick, quick drop of a
little bit of data that the oneother cannabinoid based medicine
, epidiolex, that is approved,did $972 million of sales last
year and is on track to achieve$1 billion of sales this year.
That one product and thefamilies are saying that THC
(41:04):
based autism drug that they'relooking to get approved, they
think could achieve far greatersuccess than Epidiolex.
So they have their eyes on thebillions, not the millions, of
what this product mean in themarket, which is pretty
substantial.
Ben Larson (41:20):
Well then, after you've been through the process
once for one application, youknow, we all know, thc has a
multitude of applications, soyou pick the pick.
The next ailment and I can onlyimagine that the approval
process is is that much smoother, um, getting through, because
you don't have to worry aboutdoing all the toxicity reporting
(41:40):
and all that kind of stuffright, wow.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:44):
so I think that's it for our news update,
you guys?
Oh my gosh, that was a lot.
Ben Larson (41:49):
That was intense.
I should take vacation moreoften.
It just kind of I don't knowit's been a busy news week or
things just compressed becauseI've been gone for a couple
weeks.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:59):
Yeah, you're looking a little red.
I can tell that all this stuffis heating you up.
Ben Larson (42:04):
I also spent two weeks in the sun, because it's
summer in Japan.
AnnaRae Grabstein (42:08):
Yeah Well, so I think, on the back of this
emotionally filled episode whereyou guys all heard from Ben and
I a little bit more about howwe feel about some of these
legislators, ben, why don't youdo the last calls today and
leave us with the final messagefor our listeners?
Ben Larson (42:27):
Last call, all right , well, I'm going to take it to
something adjacent, not cannabisrelated, let's see.
So, right before this, I had mytherapy session.
So it was nice to come backfrom my vacation, settle in and
do a therapy session whilethings felt really great and
(42:49):
going into it, it's like, oh,what are we going to talk about?
How great our trip was and allthe awesomeness that we are, and
it was amazing, hey.
So shout out to to matthew uh,he's an incredible couples
therapist and he was able todraw tears out when we didn't
even know something was underthe surface.
But that's not what this isabout, what we.
(43:09):
The big takeaway is to bepresent in conversations and be
truly present, no matter who itis your loved one, your business
partner, your coworker and notonly hear what the people are
saying, but seeing how they'resaying it and seeing what
they're feeling and trying tosee if the two align.
(43:31):
And I don't think that'ssomething that people spend
enough time doing, and I thinkit's hyper important for
business leaders cannabisbusiness leaders alike to do
that with their team.
All right, you're hearing onething, you're hearing how
they're feeling, but is itcongruent with their body
language and their facialexpressions and is there an
opportunity for you to dig alittle bit deeper and be a
(43:53):
little bit more curious, andit's a lesson that my wife and I
took away today.
I think it's something that Ipride myself in and I have that
tendency to seek that out, butit's also having the courage to
cross your gut and dig a littlebit deeper and just promote
(44:14):
deeper connection with whoeveryou're talking with.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:17):
I love that.
I think that I might want tohave a little last call after
your last call.
Ben Larson (44:24):
Let's do it To follow up on it.
Double last call.
Yeah, today's the day.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:28):
I like how you leaned into a lesson from
your relationship and took thatinto business.
And I think that there'ssomething that I've been
thinking about also that Ididn't talk about at my check-in
, and that is about what happenswhen we fail and how we get
back up in two ways.
I have been doing weighttraining, and part of the weight
(44:50):
training is all about figuringout where your muscles fail,
like pushing you to the edge ofwhere you literally can't lift
anymore and that actuallysymbolizes a win because it
helps you to understand whatyour limit is, and also like
where you are trying to go next.
And then also, I've talkedabout on the show before how my
son does jujitsu, and over theweekend he did his first
(45:11):
competition and he got his buttwhooped.
He lost hard and was devastatedand he just failed.
This kid that he went up againstwas a beast and took him down,
and as a parent I was faced withoh my gosh, how do I help, help
him navigate this feeling offailure?
(45:31):
His first thought was I should.
I don't want to go back tojujitsu.
I thought what we do not giveup.
We cannot give up.
We have to take these cues fromfailure and keep trying,
because that's part of thediscipline.
I guess that's what my lastcall will be too is that failure
can teach us tremendous lessons.
There's been a lot of failurewith hopes and dreams as it
(45:55):
relates to legislation, market,environments, all of those
things, but those failures arejust helping us to understand
what we need to do next and tokeep getting right back up.
Ben Larson (46:05):
I love that.
I love that.
I had a similar feeling withAlistair this past weekend
because he had a basketballtournament.
So he played two games and hewon the first game.
So I got to be excited aboutthat, he got to be excited about
that, and then they got theirbutt whooped in the second game
and I'm like, oh, this is good,this is character building.
So it's like a little humilityis healthy for a seven year old.
So I hope he bounces back.
(46:26):
I hope he gets back in the ringand pours that W for himself.
AnnaRae Grabstein (46:30):
I hope so too .
We're going to process it andfigure out how to understand
that failure can just be fuelfor the fire.
Ben Larson (46:37):
Yeah Well, man, if that isn't indicative of our
journey in the cannabis industry, I don't know what is.
But what do you think, folks?
I am so grateful to be back.
I what do you think, folks?
I am so grateful to be back.
I'm grateful for you.
Thank you for watching, forlistening, for engaging.
Thank you to our teams atVirtosa and Wolfmeyer.
Thank you to our producer, ericRossetti.
(46:57):
If you've enjoyed this episode,please drop us a review, a
rating on Apple Podcasts,spotify or wherever you listen.
Smash that subscribe on YouTube.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, as always.
That subscribe on YouTube.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As always, folks stay curious,stay informed and, most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh Until next time.
(47:19):
That's the show.
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