Kim Gomez shares how her TikTok experiment with her mother turned into Soberish, a multi-million dollar online marketplace for hemp-based and non-alcoholic social alternatives without spending on advertising. Her accidental business journey provides insights into serving cannabis-curious consumers who are intimidated by dispensaries but eager to try low-dose products.
• Building a marketplace to curate quality hemp products after discovering that half the products brands sent were "garbage"
• Creating an education-first approach for customers completely new to cannabis who are nervous about getting too high
• Developing the Soberish Sampler Box where 67% of customers return to purchase full-size products
• Growing from $1 million in first-year revenue without ads to a projected $7 million this year with paid acquisition
• Navigating the complex regulatory landscape across states while maintaining seamless customer experiences
• Implementing an API-based dropship model that connects directly with brand inventories for real-time updates
• Targeting the untapped demographic of professional women in their 40s looking for alcohol alternatives
• Advocating for appropriate dosing (2-4mg) that new consumers actually enjoy versus the 10mg+ products dominating retail
Find Kimmy Gomez on social media platforms like Instagram, TikTok, or Facebook at Kimmy Gomez, or connect with her on LinkedIn where she shares industry insights and business tips.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kimmie Gamez (00:00):
I'm like a two to four, six milligram girly tops.
Like I turned into a raginghyena at five milligrams.
Like I can literally notcontrol my face.
I will like giggle.
People will like I thinkthey're looking at me, they're
not.
I start laughing Like it'sawful.
I mean, it's very fun because Ilike to laugh, but then I'm in
pain the next day because mycheeks hurt.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:17):
But anyway, hi friends, I'm Anna Rae,
co-host of High Spirits Pod, andwe are hitting our 100th
episode on August 5th.
We kind of can't believe it,but it's true.
Thanks for coming along for theride, thanks for being a part
of building this community.
Engaging with us, it really,really means a lot.
(00:37):
We are opening up to you, ourlisteners, in hopes that you
will ask us questions.
Anything that you want to knowabout us, about what we think
about the industry, reallyanything.
You can submit your questionsby going to high spirits podcom
slash ask, and you can submitaudio questions or send us a
(00:58):
text, and your submission mighteven end up on the podcast.
We are incredibly grateful forall of the guests who have
joined us over the past twoyears, all of the listeners that
have joined us.
You guys are an incrediblegroup of people that are trying
to up-level what you know aboutcannabis, think about things in
a new way, and we're just reallyglad to be along for the ride
(01:34):
along for the ride.
Ben Larson (01:34):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 98 of High
Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson and, as always,I'm joined today by Anna Rae
Grabstein.
It's Tuesday, july 22, 2025.
And I'm sitting in Denver,colorado, sipping on some one
milligram hemp beverages thatyou can pick up at a bar or
restaurant.
I didn't even know that was athing.
It's one milligram, I'm notgoing to get me too high, but
(01:56):
yeah, kind of normalizing, kindof cool.
Maybe I'll be a little bitsoberish on the show today.
And, rae, how are you?
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:03):
I'm good I'm back at my home studio today,
but I have been on this wildjourney deep in nature.
When I talked to you guys lastweek, I was about to depart and
I spent four days on the RogueRiver so deep in the wilderness
it was absolutely amazing.
(02:23):
I saw a bear, multiple baldeagles, we fished, we rafted, we
capsized, we slept under thestars.
It was fabulous and I totallydisconnected from all technology
and work.
I want to do it more.
I'm kind of sad to be back inlife, but it's cool.
(02:45):
I have a pretty good life too,and I'm aware of that.
Ben Larson (02:48):
Sounds majestic.
I was actually sitting havingcoffee this morning talking to a
couple of colleagues in thespace, and I have realized that
I have this unfounded, not fear,but I think I just decided that
one way I don't want toaccidentally go is drowning in a
capsized river raft, and so Idon't have this calling to go
(03:11):
whitewater rafting like mostpeople do, and I feel kind of
like a little disappointed withmyself, like I want to go white,
I want to want to go whitewaterrafting, if that makes any
sense.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:21):
I will tell you.
So we had these big rafts thatwe could go on in, the white
router rafts, or there were theinflatable whitewater kayaks and
there was singles and doublesand I went in a double kayak.
I was feeling confident with myeight-year-old son and I was in
the back steering, and we wentthrough one rapid.
(03:41):
It was great.
And the second rapid, we fullycapsized.
We both were out of the boat.
It was great.
And the second rapid, we fullycapsized.
We both were out of the boat.
I was floating down the riverquickly in front of him.
I turned back and saw hislittle helmet above the water,
so I knew he was okay.
But he was screaming and cryingand I immediately felt like, oh
my gosh, I can't help.
What do I do?
It was terrifying.
(04:03):
So I understand your fear andwe got through it.
It was fine.
It was totally safe.
He got back in the boat.
We had people around, but uh,yeah, not for the, not for the
faint of heart well, I will.
Ben Larson (04:19):
I will stay here and drink my coffee, and at the
clayton in denver.
It's a lovely spot.
Cherry creek, uh yeah.
And um hotel yeah, it's solid.
Got a nice little steam roominggym downstairs, pool on top and
you can order your fables atthe pool.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:35):
And again, I just this podcast is not
sponsored by fable no, no infact.
Ben Larson (04:41):
In fact uh, shout out to fabric, who I I also been
drinking they have a one and ahalf milligram.
So weird, colorado.
This is also going to be alearning opportunity, not just
an advertisement for Fabric andFable and also High Spirits,
although that says fivemilligrams, it's not allowed.
Oops, anyways, colorado, weirdlimits 1.75 milligrams of THC
(05:05):
plus at least 15 milligrams ofCBD or CBD or something, and so
that's what they've determinedthey being the legislators and
policymakers to benon-intoxicating.
And so we were meeting as thehemp beverage coalition here in
Colorado last night A greatgroup of people, people, a lot
of people that you've known inthe industry for for decade or
(05:27):
more trying to get that 1.75elevated to five so that we can
harmonize, like what's going onin all the other states.
Of course, that would requireremoving that 15 milligram
requirement and maybe removingthe word of non-intoxicating,
but, yeah, interestingfoundation, yeah, and that you
(05:48):
have a framework that works inwhere alcohol is sold.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:50):
Well, I think it's a great segue into talking
about some of the news that istop of mind in the space state
that has a pretty significanthemp industry that is talking
(06:10):
about intoxicating hempregulation or prohibition, and
that is Texas, texas.
So, yes, yesterday the sessionbegan, the special session that
the governor called, and thegovernor, as we all remember,
vetoed SB3 and directed thelegislature to continue its work
on hemp.
And yesterday that sessionstarted and Senator Charles
(06:33):
Perry basically reintroduced SB3as Senate Bill 5.
And the bill bans mostcannabinoids except CBD and CBG
and creates a bunch of criminalpenalties for sales and
possession and a lot of the samethings that SB3 does.
And this is just the beginningof a discussion.
(06:53):
It's what it sounds like.
It's the beginning of anegotiation.
I've been doing a lot ofnegotiations recently and I
think it's interesting to seehow people start off, like how
they want to play their hand,how aggressive they want to
start, and I think it'sinteresting to see how people
start off like how they want toplay their hand, how aggressive
they want to start, and I thinkthat what we're seeing is that
the prohibitionists in Texas arestarting out with a fairly
aggressive stance, but we havesome time to see where this
(07:15):
lands and where compromisehappens.
So I don't know.
The governor called forregulations, not prohibition.
What do you think?
Ben Larson (07:24):
Yeah, but the prohibitionists are still
calling for prohibition.
They've done so with SB5.
They've started the hearingthis morning.
It's been live streaming.
It might be live streamingright now when basically, we're
hearing the same talk track ofreefer madness and just trying
to say that this is equivalentto heroin and killing kids and
(07:45):
yada, yada, yada.
So same shit different day andwe just need to see where the
negotiation goes.
It feels kind of helpless, youknow, sitting on the outside,
but you know we do have peopleon the ground live tweeting or
slacking or whatever it is.
We need to see positivemovement here because it's not
the only state where this isbeing discussed.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:16):
And we have the federal discussion as well.
Cannabis that is being exportedinto Germany and it's really
pretty wild to see what'shappening.
Canada accounted for 43% of theimported dried flower into
Germany for the first quarter ofthis year and it actually seems
(08:37):
to be looking like the importedflower volume in 2025 is double
2024.
So we're talking about 100%growth in the market year over
year.
And Canada is just getting tohave it all because the US is
fighting over state levelprohibition instead of opening
(08:59):
up access to a global market forcannabis.
And the US could be thisincredible dominant global
player.
But unless the US shifts itsfederal prohibition on cannabis
exports and on cannabis ingeneral, it's going to continue
to forfeit all of thisopportunity that the Canadians
are just really happy to takeadvantage of while we sit on the
(09:21):
sidelines.
Ben Larson (09:22):
Yes, and they're really happy because it's saving
their businesses.
So I don't think the Canadianswould be so happy if they were
having to compete with us forthe demand in Germany.
So you know, I was talking tosome Canadian friends and
everyone knows the market's beenup there, has been pretty
dismal or just completelydominated by a few different
(09:43):
operations, but now, because ofthis dynamic, it is actually
more advantageous for them tosell into Germany than it is to
focus on their own domesticsales.
So yeah, it's an interestingmarket.
But yeah, I agree with you, Ithink the U?
S is far behind what theCalifornia manufacturers are are
being accused of doingillegally throughout the us.
(10:06):
The us wants to do legallyaround the world.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:10):
um, so we have a long ways to go to catch
up yeah, for years people havealways said that the canadian
cannabis was mids and thatcalifornia cannabis growers were
producing way better quality.
But doesn't really matter,because that's what's available
on the market and and I will sayI think the quality in Canada
has stepped up.
It's not bad, yeah.
So last little news updatebefore we jump into our awesome
(10:35):
guest, who's going to be waymore interesting than these
newest updates, is that theSenate did just this morning
confirm Terrence Cole to be thenew permanent leader of the DEA,
and obviously all of you knowwhat the DEA is, but notably
they are the agency in charge ofthe rescheduling process.
So we'll see what happens underthe new Cole administration at
(10:59):
the DEA.
More on that in the comingmonths.
Ben Larson (11:02):
More on that to come , and I did see NCAA just
released a press release urgingMr Cole to reassess rescheduling
, which is the number one thingthe DEA could probably do for us
in the near future, and whatI've been hearing from different
circles around the industry isthat maybe come fall, I think
(11:24):
there'll be a lot of pressure tosee rescheduling resurface in
the fall, so that would beamazing.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:30):
If we could be done with 280E before, before
the next tax year.
So anyway, today, on highspirits, we are talking with the
founder, who's not justbuilding a business.
She's reshaping how we'rethinking about drinking,
sobriety and what it means tofeel good.
I'm really excited to welcomeKim Gomez, who's a serial
(11:51):
entrepreneur and founder ofSoberish, which is an online
marketplace selling hemp-basedand non-alcoholic social
alternatives.
She went from a viral TikTokexperiment to a multi-million
dollar brand without a dollarspent on ads, so we're going to
hear about that.
What makes Kim's story sointeresting isn't just the
(12:12):
numbers, but it's also just theway that she's gone about it in
this bold, viral way, buildingsomething unique and special.
I stumbled on it I don't know,at least over a year ago,
because I was surprised thatthere were so many hemp brands
selling DTC, but there wasn'treally a curated store that you
could go to and see manydifferent brands or order
(12:36):
multiple products from differentcompanies at once, and Soberish
was actually the first companythat I saw doing that, which was
really exciting, and since thenthere have been some others
that have followed behind I'dsay fast followers, like I know
that Juana started a marketplacewhere they've curated some
additional products to their own, but I think that Soberish was
(13:00):
the first and really has taken adifferent approach to targeting
the consumer and curating areally cool mix of brands.
Ben Larson (13:08):
Yeah, no, I love it and I just, I just love the word
and I'm going to try to bringKimmy back up so she can join in
on the conversation, but Ithink it's just such a great
brand asset and I'm a big fan ofbeing sober.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:24):
We're really excited to welcome Kim today to
High Spirits.
Hi Kim.
Kimmie Gamez (13:29):
I'm sorry, I apologize.
About technology, it's onething, obviously, we love all
things technology, whether it'smarketing or the marketplace,
but man, is it failing us today?
So thank you first and foremostfor having me.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:42):
Oh, thanks for being here, and you sound
better now.
It's great.
So why don't you tell us wherethe name Soberish came from,
since we were just talking aboutit?
Kimmie Gamez (13:54):
and we think it's really creative and fun.
So you talked a little bitabout this.
Soberish was like a socialexperiment.
I was in my past life, with myprevious companies, I led all
things marketing, and so I wasreally just trying to see if I
could keep my marketing chops,because I took an amazing role
leading entrepreneurship andinnovation at Michigan State
University's Research Foundation.
So I just want to stay relevantand so I'm like I'm going to
use this app called TikTok and,you know, see if I can crack the
(14:15):
algorithm and then go back tomy teams and help, you know,
coach them with this newtrending tool.
And my daughter was like I waslike honey, I need who's 15?
.
I'm like you need to likecreate a name and whatever.
And she and I well, I'd started.
I was like Kim Gomez, something, something, number, number.
And she's like mom, that is solame, kimmy G.
And so we changed my name toKimmy G and so originally, when
(14:40):
we had the whole idea forsoberish, I was like what do we
call it?
Kimmy G's, something or another, and I'm like it's like we're
sober but not sober ish.
And I was like GoDaddycom isthe domain available?
So, yeah, that's how the namecame about.
AnnaRae Grabstein (14:55):
That's amazing.
Ben Larson (14:56):
That's awesome.
So you were launching Soberish.
But how was that interface inyour like discovery of where I
know you from the hemp beveragecommunity?
Was that all one and the same,or was it just this broader
concept of non-alcoholic kind oflifestyle?
Kimmie Gamez (15:14):
Oh, my goodness, it was like the happiest little
accident.
So, again, I'm a serialentrepreneur, have led a couple
companies to acquisition and mylast company I was like well, it
was a marketplace, grew to acouple million users and it was
acquired back in 2021.
And at the time I was like I amnot doing this again.
It's like a roller coasterbeing a founder, even though
there's, like you know, bigpayoffs, at the end it could all
(15:35):
crash and burn at any point.
And so I'm like I'm just goingto take this win and enjoy it.
And I got bored.
You know, I took this job at theuniversity and I'm like I'm
used to working founders hours,and so my mom, who struggles
with alcoholism, moved in withus.
It was actually two years ago,so I just actually saw like our
very first video and I was likemom, like let's try some of
these, like sober, like sobercurious is like this movement,
(15:57):
there's all these non-alcoholicproducts.
Like maybe we should try one.
And I want to do a video of uslike just because I want to use
this tool.
And so, yeah, I'm like I was anon-cannabis user, guys, I knew
nothing about any of it.
Like I was raised in the dareera.
I was like, oh no, Kim Gomezcan't do those things.
(16:18):
And so my very first product Itried was Little Saints, and it
had CBD in it.
And I remember asking my momI'm like, oh my gosh, are we
going to get high Like her mom's?
like old pro she's like no, likewe'll be just fine.
Well, and then so we tried itand I did not like it, but we
(16:42):
did a video and like so peoplewere like commenting other
products we should try, and sowe got our hands on some can and
again got the can and it waslike or got the products and
like two milligrams of THC and Idon't know four CBD or whatever
it is, and again, so we'reagain prop up the phone, I want
to use this tool and I'm likeall right, so nervous, like I
(17:03):
was like being completely raw,like in the video, sweating, and
I'm like it's probably gonnataste like a skunk's ass, but
mom and I are ready with doritosin case we get too stoned.
Like the couch is clean, likelet's do it.
And so mom and her still thereand I'm I now.
I think people on the other endof the camera probably like oh,
these poor souls.
But now I took it and I'm like,wait a minute, it actually
(17:26):
tastes really good, like what,and it's only 10 calories or
whatever it was in it.
And I was like what, and so I'mlike okay, I'll report back on
effects.
Well, I ended up getting alittle buzz and then totally
forgot about the camera.
So the next day I was like okay, so I have to say what happened
, and so I like just talk, likeyou know so.
I was like it felt like mine,you know.
And so what happened is peopleon the other end of the camera
(17:48):
watching this like shit show ofa series that I had started were
like, where can I get it?
Like how did you really feellike, did it?
Did it taste like skunk?
And it's like no, they're likebut is it like are you gonna go
to jail?
And I'm like I don't think so,and so, just me and my own
capacity, I'm like looking up,like how am I able to ship this
into michigan?
Like, and can I go to jailhaving this with me?
(18:10):
And so, yeah, that's how it allstarted and that's honestly.
I never wanted to become abusiness.
I honestly just wanted to seeif I could crack that silly
algorithm.
And but then brands startedseeing some of our videos were
like going viral and brands werereaching out for us to try
their products.
So my mom and I turned intothese really cringy influencers
trying a bunch of products andit was was really fun.
(18:31):
I mean, honestly, some of ourbest videos are just mom and I
just like belly laughing, likeabsolutely laughing, just like
raging hyenas and like we don'teven say anything, and those are
the ones that have gone likemega crazy, viral and so fun to
do it with my mom, sorry, backup, half of the products that
brands would send us weregarbage, and so I'm like, why is
(18:51):
there not like an Angie's listfor these products?
And so I'm like I can do amarketplace.
That was my last company didthat Like, let me just see, let
me just do a test.
And so I threw up like onelanding page with links out to
all the brands to trackconversions and I was like I'll
just see how much, how manysales we're getting for these
(19:12):
products we're talking about,and I thought maybe we were
selling like a couple of cases.
I didn't know.
We had $60,000 in sales throughthose links in the first month,
and so I was like, damn it,this is a business, this isn't a
hobby.
So, yeah, heads down built thisbridge we launched last
february, like a year and a halfago and now your mom's an
influencer.
(19:32):
Yeah, I love it yes and it isher birthday today, so oh, happy
birthday, mom.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:39):
Well, so this , this concept of a marketplace,
you talk about how organicallyit started, but really, when you
guys, there weren't any othermarketplaces for hemp beverages
and hemp intoxicating productsout there and I think it was a
really unique idea, why wasnobody else doing it?
(20:00):
Did you realize that no one wasdoing it when you did it, that
it was this really uniqueopportunity in the space at the
time?
Kimmie Gamez (20:07):
I would hate to think we were the first, because
there were other just likemarketplaces for all things like
hemp, cannabis, like smokablesand all of the things.
But they were very much likewhen I went to visit them.
It was like THC and big potleaves and like neon flashing
lights and all these things, andI was like, oh, like my kids
are going to see me on thiswebsite, you know.
And so, honestly, I was likeLike my kids are going to see me
(20:29):
on this website, you know.
And so honestly, I was like canI think there needs to be a
site for people just like me whoare very curious about this
category, who are non-cannabisusers, who do not understand the
cannabinoids, who do notunderstand all the science?
They just really want to knowhow does it taste and how am I
going to feel, and justliterally someone holding their
(20:51):
hand.
And so I think our whole ideaof being video first is because,
like, if you come to Soberish,the first video on the site is
like hey, girl, welcome, because98% of our customers are girls.
Like hey, girl welcome.
Like what are you interested in?
Like what are you here for?
Ben Larson (21:19):
And like one of the prompts is like I'm so terrified
but I really want to learn more.
You know like, and then we justwalk them through like a quiz,
like, and give them like sixoptions at the end, just as if
you're walking into a bottleshop or to a bar.
I of them are that kind oftotal new where, like, you're
helping convert them into thespace or in at least introduce
them potentially to the products.
Kimmie Gamez (21:36):
I would say over 90%.
So I don't know like we're notcapturing the data, like how
many times have you consumedcannabis?
But you know they're definitelyinterested in low dose options.
I'm terrified of getting twostoned.
So I think I joke that.
I think everybody has that gummystory.
You know that they had a gummyor took too many and then all of
(21:57):
a sudden, you know, ended uptwo stony baloney, as I say on
social media, and there's likethat was my thing.
I took a gummy with my brotherI have no idea how many, how
much, how much it was and I waslike where are my kneecaps?
I can't feel my legs.
Wait, I can feel my ankles, butI can't feel my like whatever.
And I'm like why would anyonewant to feel this way?
So I never tried another productagain and so I feel like, for
(22:17):
the most part, all of ourcustomers either are in that
never have tried, or they havehad something and had a bad
experience, whether it wasstraight THC and got a little
bit anxious or too much, um, butare definitely that.
You know it's not that theywant they have an issue with
alcohol, it's that they justwant an alternative one that you
(22:38):
know maybe our customers are ona weight loss journey so they
don't want the empty calories.
They also, um, can't hang withthe hangovers.
You know I hate, and I know wedon't really talk about that,
because you can get likehangover experience if you have
like too much cannabis or mix itor however, but for the most
part, I mean they're justlooking for alternatives in
their lifestyle.
Ben Larson (22:57):
Yeah, I love it that you're creating a place for
these products, because one ofthe conversations that we're
having in the space right now iswhat is the right dosing?
And I know in the space rightnow is what is the right dosing?
And I know it's a very broadanswer, very nuanced.
But when you ask a retailer andretailers will answer on based
on what it's selling it'susually capping out at whatever
(23:18):
is available in the market.
In most cases we're talkinglike 10 milligrams, like 10
milligrams are outselling fivemilligrams, you know 20 to one
or something like that.
And then you talk to otherbrands that are leveraging other
marketplaces and they're likeoh, 50 milligrams saved our
company.
And you go into a dispensaryand it's all 100 milligrams, and
so what happens is like thesenew consumers kind of have the
(23:42):
potential to get shut out of thegame because a retailer is just
following the money.
And I'm just curious as to yourperspective on that particular
conversation.
Kimmie Gamez (23:51):
Yeah, and I love this because I'm like a two to
four, six milligram girly tops,Like I turned into a raging
hyena at five milligrams, Like Ican literally not control my
face.
I will like giggle.
People will like I thinkthey're looking at me, they're
not.
I start laughing Like it'sawful.
I mean it's very fun because Ilike to laugh, but then I'm in
pain the next day because mycheeks hurt.
But anyway, my whole concernwith that is again I can only
(24:17):
speak for myself and ourcustomers is that if she has
already had a bad experiencewith a gummy and she goes into a
store and the only thing that'savailable or the only products
that are like kind of pushed orrecommended are 10 milligrams,
she's going to have that exactsame experience with that 10
milligram can as she had withthat 10 milligram gummy.
(24:39):
And because I don't think in ona retail store shelf they're
educating If you're new, startwith two milligrams.
And again, because it's not aconsumer behavior to open up a
can, to drink a quarter of thecan, Like it's, that's not
normal, Like you want to downthe entire beverage, Right.
And so I just think there's somuch we can do and that's like
(25:02):
kind of the next phase ofSoberish is like how can we help
both on premise, so inrestaurants and bars, as well as
in retail, because we areworking with, like you know, so
many brands in the category, butalso we really I think I don't
want to say we've nailed, butwe've worked really hard to try
to educate the consumer and Ithink we can bring that into
stores as well.
AnnaRae Grabstein (25:24):
You.
You brought up your consumergoing into a store or
potentially a dispensary.
You know that your home stateis Michigan store or potentially
a dispensary.
I know that your home state isMichigan, which is considered a
mature cannabis market.
There's been a medical programthere for a really long time and
adult use the prices are knownto be some of the cheapest in
the nation and the legalregulated space how, how do you
(25:44):
think about how you fit in andwhat you're doing as it relates
to the to the adult useregulated cannabis market?
Kimmie Gamez (25:53):
Again, I have only ever stepped foot in one
dispensary in my entire life,even when I was doing customer
discovery.
That was the one time Cause Iwas like, oh, and I'm like
somebody's gonna recognize mycar.
Like look at, think about howabsolutely stupid this sounds.
But I was like somebody's goingto recognize my car and be like
(26:15):
that's Kim Gomez, she is abusiness owner in town.
Like that was just that stigmathat I was raised with.
That I'm like what am I?
What am I doing?
And then I went in and I wasjust completely overwhelmed and
again it was just this reallyuncomfortable situation of them
like scanning my ID and I'm like, oh, my like, how, why is this
so hard?
And then I just felt soembarrassed asking questions
with these like ultraprofessionals, these bud tenders
(26:35):
behind the counter, and I'mlike this is just.
I just felt like this wasn'tmeant for me and so for us.
I think both things need toexist.
I think the heavy consumersthat are using cannabis for a
certain way, that need thatreally high, you know, milligram
count dispensaries go wherethey can get those high potency.
But then you need that likevery basic beginner level that
(26:58):
somebody should be able to ordera two to five milligram drink
at a bar, or order, you know, orgrab products on retail shelves
or, hopefully you know, comeand try products at Silverish.
Did that answer the question?
AnnaRae Grabstein (27:10):
You have just described in such an important,
clear nutshell kind of the, theopportunity that is outside of
the adult use channel, and howmany consumers, clearly like
yourself, are not being reachedby the dispensary model.
And I think that, within thecontext of access and choice,
(27:31):
dispensaries aren't hitting itfor everybody and it's it's
really it's nice to have you outhere educating the world about
this whole other group of peoplethat do deserve to have access
to cannabis products but aremost likely not going to enter a
dispensary a second time.
Kimmie Gamez (27:49):
Right.
Ben Larson (27:50):
Talking about this like regulatory convergence and
like creating what sounds like abifurcated system.
I think this is the kind of atopic that comes up a lot.
Even last night at the HempBeverage Coalition meeting.
In its current state and I knowthat's very fluid we mentioned
Texas at the top of the show.
You know there's the federalconversation going on, but how
(28:18):
do you, kimmy, as a platform,really navigate the complexity
of the landscape?
Right now and I talked to a lotof brand owners every brand
owner has a differentinterpretation of what they're
comfortable with versus the nextbrand, and so you're one that
kind of is representing a brandin of itself was soberish, but
also kind of reflecting whereall these other brands are being
sold.
So it's like what's yourphilosophy around just
(28:40):
navigating this, this fluidlegislative landscape?
Kimmie Gamez (28:44):
Oh, isn't our industry like a dumpster fire,
like every day?
It's something like every day,yeah.
Like the technology wasn'tworking.
I'm like it's like we don'thave enough to deal with.
You know, like everything inour industry, like my computer
should at least work, but yeah,so it's tough.
I mean so every brand.
So, again, going back to thebrands that we allow on our site
(29:06):
, we don't allow just anyone.
We do our full compliance of.
We have products shipped to us,we taste test them, we're
checking packaging, we'rechecking COAs, we're checking
their social media accounts,because these brands are a
direct reflection of Soberish,and so, with that, they also,
though, have their own what thestates they ship to.
(29:28):
So we try to stay flexible withthe brands, and, because of the
way that our platform is built,that there are some brands that
are shipping into 30 states,there's other brands that are
shipping into 46 states, and sowe're able to navigate that and
try to keep it, you know, notsuper confusing for the end
customer, but and just againapologize and using a lot of
(29:49):
content on online to talk, youknow, about our category and the
nuances, and so far that thecustomers have been receptive to
it, though, and can you talk alittle bit just to the extent
you're comfortable about whatthat kind of infrastructure
looks like?
Ben Larson (30:04):
Are you leveraging their existing 3PL systems or
are you like managing all yourown logistics?
Kimmie Gamez (30:10):
No, I'd love to tell you because I worked really
hard I was like team of one foralmost like a year building
Soberish.
So we built actually on Shopifyand then we have this really
incredible API connector on thebackend and it basically, if a
brand is on Shopify, we canconnect directly into via our
(30:34):
API, into their site, and so itis essentially a dropship model
and so we can connect and gettheir images, inventory counts,
variants, all the things, and atany time those things change on
their site.
Let's say they go out of stock,it comes out of stock on ours.
But on the flip side of that,when a customer orders let's say
they order Cycling, frog,costallo and Snoozy Gummies, she
(30:58):
gets one checkout experiencefrom Soberish.
She gets an email, thank youfor your order, and on the back
end it calls and makes orders ontheir platform, and so then
when those brands fulfill, theynotify us or our system.
They don't do anything, theyjust like fulfill their order in
Shopify like anybody else would, and then the information comes
back to Soberish, notifies thecustomer your snoozy gummies are
(31:21):
on their way, your Costello ison its way, and so it's seamless
because, again so, mybackground, my previous company,
was a marketplace and I saidthe only way for this to work is
if it's seamless.
Because, again so, my background, my previous company, was a
marketplace and I said the onlyway for this to work is if it's
a win-win for everyone and ifit's simple.
These brands do not want tobabysit one additional platform.
They don't want to have toupdate images anywhere when
they're out of stock.
They don't have to be like ohcrap, we have to go out of stock
(31:41):
on Sogrish.
No, all that information needsto pass over and it literally
needs to have like sign up infive minutes or less.
So our team, we can sign upbrands in five minutes or less
and customers have this againseamless shopping experience.
That again seems to be working,knock on wood.
But yeah, so that's how it allworks.
Is that what you're asking?
I'm assuming.
Ben Larson (32:00):
Yeah, that's awesome .
Thank you for going on thatgeeky journey.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:03):
I mean, I think that there are two ways to
look at building and it's usingoff the shelf tools and being
able to scale quickly with withtools that are exist other in
other places that you don't haveto be maintaining.
And then there's people thatare bringing in capital and
trying to build from scratch andand I think that what you've
described is is such a scalable,fast to market model that I I
(32:27):
really respect and I think itmakes a ton of sense and I love
the idea of a customer or abrand being able to get on the
platform so fast.
Will you share with us a littlebit about the level of scale
that you've achieved, how manyorders or customers, revenue,
whatever it is?
That are some ways that we canunderstand the growth from when
you started to where you aretoday.
Kimmie Gamez (32:46):
Yeah.
So again, I just went frommaking silly, you know, videos
with my mom.
I mean, they weren't likedances or anything crazy, we
were just giving like authenticreviews of these products.
Um, so that started two yearsago and February of last year,
so 18 months or, yeah, uh, 18months ago we launched soberish
and I thought let's justcontinue to try to drive this
(33:08):
organically.
Let's see what we can dowithout ads.
I'm like I don't want to giveFacebook $1.
Let's see what we can do.
I told my mom I said wouldn'tit be great if we could do
$100,000 this year without ads?
And she was like no way.
I'm like, let's try.
I'm like wouldn't that be fun?
We have to like keep up on ourstuff.
We did a million dollars in.
(33:29):
I remember when we firstlaunched we got like 600 orders
in like I don't know one of thelike very first days and I was
panicking because I'm like Ihope this site that I've been
doing all by myself actuallyworks, because I thought I'm
going to trickle in orders andlike test.
I didn't actually realizepeople were going to use it.
(33:50):
So that was last year and thenso in January of this year I
thought, well, that's silly Kim,take your own coaching advice.
If this is what you're doingwithout ads, think about what
you can do with ads.
And so we're going to.
We're on track to do 7 millionthis year and yeah, it's been.
It's been absolutely crazy.
So orders I think we're at like100,000 customers or we'll hit
(34:14):
that soon.
Yeah, it's just been absolutelycrazy to just kind of see
unfold.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:20):
And of those customers?
Are they coming back andordering more?
Are you doing a subscriptionmodel, which we're seeing a lot
of DTC brands do?
What are some of the patternsand behaviors that you're
noticing?
Kimmie Gamez (34:32):
Yeah.
So around 30% of our customersare repeat customers.
One of our number one skews isour soberish sampler.
So when we first launched,soberish customers are reaching
out and saying which products doyou recommend?
But can I buy like one of, likea variety?
(34:52):
And I'm like that's just nothow our model works, like I
can't, I can't do that, I can'thave the brands.
Just lend you one, you know can.
And so I just reached out tosome of the brands that we were
friendly with and I'm like hey,would you send me like a hundred
cans and I'll market them.
You don't have to pay anythingoutside of just the product.
You send me the product, I'llput together this sampler, we'll
sell it online, I'll covershipping, I'll cover all the
(35:14):
other things that go along withselling a product, and it'll be
samples and honestly, in frontof customers that you probably
would never be in front of.
And yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I'm like, wow, that waseasy.
And so we did that.
We launched our very first boxsold out in like two hours, I
(35:36):
think it was.
So was so crazy, and so then itwas let's try to do this once
every other month.
And so that started and nowfast forward again 18 months
later.
Where we are, we do at least umtwo to three samplers per month
and so we've have 500 um.
We have 500 sampler boxes perlaunch.
So brands now send us 500samples.
(35:57):
But again, it's a greatopportunity for brands to get
new products.
So if they're launching a newSKU and they want to get that
product, you know, into thehands of somebody who is paying
for the sample, that's adifferent mindset.
Somebody at a grocery storewho's just going to take the
free sample, just to take thesample, is a person.
But there's another personwho's paying for samples because
they actually want to buy.
(36:17):
So, going back to your originalquestion about retention, 67%
of customers who buy thatsampler box come back and buy a
full-size item.
Ben Larson (36:26):
That sounds like a pretty decent logistics lift and
just rewinding going to amillion instead of a hundred
thousand, like you're 10 X inyour your target.
So with that comes probablysome growing pains, I'm assuming
.
What are some of the like pinchpoints that you have felt over
(36:46):
the last 18 months that reallyrequired you to sit down Like
how do I solve this?
Like what do I need to hire for?
You know what were some ofthose, those growing pains?
Kimmie Gamez (36:56):
Customer support one.
You know, these brandsobviously are all shipping from
different locations at differenttimes, so that is sometimes a
bit, you know, confusing for acustomer.
Um, so we've hired a customerservice team to handle, you know
, customer service.
Gosh, there's just so much.
(37:17):
There's things like obviouslyoutside, like even when we
started that I didn't even thinkabout.
I'm like what do you mean?
I can't just use Shopifypayments, Like I have to use a
payment provider and then afteryou hit a certain threshold you
have different insurancerequirements and all of these
things.
I don't know.
There's just been so muchInventory management, running
ads.
Now that we're running ads,that is a beast.
(37:38):
Just because I came from a worldwhere anything kind of goes in
ads and this, I can't sayanything.
I'm literally selling snake oil, I feel like on social media,
and then driving them to a pagethat I still can't tell them
what they're buying, and then ithas to be at least one more
click in before I can be likegirl, it's THC.
Sorry, sorry about all thatback there, I actually can THC.
(38:01):
I always call it the gigglegrass, but so that's just all of
that is just so many learnings,so many challenges, Also with
everything that's happening, youknow state by state.
The customers have questions.
You know, in Texas, for example, a lot of our customers there
were like so where will I beable to buy the products?
And it's like nothing passed,so like you're okay for now.
(38:24):
And so there's just all this,because we're educating our
customer.
She comes to us as a friend,like so what now?
Or what should I do, or all ofthese things.
It's all overwhelming, but Ihave an amazing team, so we were
really enjoying like buildingthis together.
Ben Larson (38:43):
I'm going to keep you around, just so you can help
expand my vocabulary.
I'm really liking giggle grassand stony bologna, like this is.
This is excellent.
Kimmie Gamez (38:49):
Every video.
I'm like all right guys, I gota little stony bologna in the
grass last night.
Every video I'm like all rightguys, I got a little stone on
the grass last night.
AnnaRae Grabstein (38:57):
So you talked about coaching entrepreneurship
in the university setting andyou got there from a long kind
of career doing a bunch ofdifferent things and you share
online a lot about how you havea big family and you've started
a bunch of restaurants and anapp that you exited.
You know I'm wondering whatyou're building for this time.
(39:19):
What's the long game here?
Kimmie Gamez (39:22):
Goodness, there was no game.
That's the thing.
There was no.
Like I'm going to start thisbusiness to do this.
It was my mom needs me tosupport her.
Let's try to make this fun.
Was my mom needs me to supporther?
Let's try to make this fun?
So it really started with, likehow can we make you know this
responsible way of living funinstead of her always feeling
(39:44):
like she was like left out ofthe fun?
And so now, honestly, like if Icould touch more people like my
mom, who now has been soberwell, sober ish, but alcohol
free, you know for two years,you know if I can help support
them, great, but I'm also not afool girl.
I am doing this to make money.
So one day, if it's anacquisition, if it's building a
big brand that we're acquiringother brands, who knows I'm here
(40:05):
?
This has been.
It was a hobby.
It was just.
There was no gain, there was noplan, and I think that's what
makes it so beautiful, because Ididn't overthink anything.
I just let things happen and Ikept my eyes and ears open to
what was happening around me.
Even when it came to socialmedia, I was just.
I'm like I don't.
I've never made content online.
(40:26):
I always drove our teams tomake content for marketing but,
like I was never the face of ourbrands.
So I'm like nobody's going tofollow this 40 year old woman
who knows absolutely nothingabout these products that she's
consuming, and but I just waslike I'm just going to throw
this out here and I'm like, wow,that actually really worked.
Why did it work?
Can I do more of that?
Is there like a recipe or likea, like a model that I can mimic
(40:49):
?
And so it's just been reallynice to be able to like do all
of those things.
And then now I'm like holy,like I would have never thought
we would be here right now.
For, you know, as far as saleswise and number of customers,
it's hard to think big pictureand answer your question when,
again, our industry it's likeit's in a constant limbo.
And so I just want to continueto create a great, you know,
(41:11):
continue to support great brands, make great products, keep
customers happy, bringing morepeople into the category, and
then, at the end of the day, ifthere is some big sale or some
big win, I'm here for that.
Ben Larson (41:23):
You say continuing, so that means you're at least
enjoying it right now.
You know it's always a mixedbag when you talk to operators
in the space, so it's great tosee you finding a customer and a
, you know, a focused customerand really leaning into it.
We've talked a lot about thebeverage category kind of
(41:43):
tangentially today, but I wantto hear a little bit more about
what you see as the productsthat Soberish will continue to
offer or expand into.
You know, over the years, orjust, let's just say, the next
18 months, is there room forultra low dose edibles?
You know, I know you talkedabout your gummy experience.
(42:05):
Gummies are typically five or10 milligrams, if not more.
But I've always wondered it'slike, oh, maybe you could get a
box of candies, or each one isone milligram or something like
that.
And how do you think aboutinhalables?
Kimmie Gamez (42:19):
Great question.
So we initially startedSoberish, to kind of be your
virtual bartender to help you inthis category of beverages, and
we quickly added on gummies,really because more people were
familiar with gummies in thiscategory, and so it was like so
(42:40):
this beverage is like this kindof gummy.
They're similar, you're goingto feel the same way, but this
will actually like the wholelike nature of consuming a
beverage.
This you can have something inyour hand at a party where a
gummy you're going to like popbefore you go to the party.
And so we have gummies, we havesome mints now we just brought
on 1906.
So we have some.
(43:00):
They're drops or they're likepill.
You know format that they have.
Yeah, I mean, I don't see usgetting into any type of
smokable again, are really justthinking about what our brand
represents and it's, you know,trying to.
You know, if you want to take abreak from alcohol, this is an
opportunity and so any kind ofliquid form consumable is what
(43:21):
we're experimenting or we'relooking at.
Um, as far as what was theother question?
Oh, low dose.
So I do see where low dosebeverage, like the ones that
you're enjoying, you're able tosit there now and probably have
multiple cans, just as if youwere drinking a Miller Lite or
(43:41):
something and I'm not sayingthat's your drink of choice, but
you know what I mean Like youcan have multiple drinks, you
know.
In an event, the problem is cost.
If we can just throw it outthere, you know people don't
want to spend $4 a can at retail, or $5 or $6 or whatever it's
costing.
Like that's the kind of anexpensive evening at home they
(44:03):
might.
They'll be willing to pay, Ithink, at a restaurant, but not
when they're buying it in retail.
And so I think people, untilthe cost comes down, they're
going to be those value shoppersand I think that's what's
moving the 10 milligram optionsin store.
Ben Larson (44:16):
That's a really good point.
Kimmie Gamez (44:17):
And then, as far as on edibles, I would argue I
mean, it's not like you'rehaving an edible to be like, oh,
craving that like sweet treatno, because then you'd want to
eat the whole bag.
So I don't know if there's amarket for like a one milligram
gummy.
Again, because I think our, ourcustomer she might be new, but
she's not stupid Like, can Ijust like bite that in half or
in a quarter to get themilligrams that I need.
(44:38):
And so I really do love thebrands that are like scoring
their gummies because, again,it's just like really
simplifying what you need to doas a beginner.
Just take this much Um, butyeah, I don't, I don't know as
far as edibles.
I do see how it could work onbeverages, but yeah, I don't
know as far as edibles.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:55):
I do see how it could work.
On beverages, I want to push alittle harder on the inhalables
question because I think thatyou make it seem like a very
simple choice and I think thatit actually it kind of crosses
over into a lot of thelegislative kind of policy
questions that we're having,because the industry as a whole
is starting to bifurcate intokind of categories and form
(45:16):
factors to try to kind ofentrench their category into
state law in various places, assome states have started to feel
less comfortable withintoxicating hemp, be it certain
doses or certain form factors.
We've got the beverages lobbyingas beverages and trying to
(45:37):
ensure that the beverages arethere, while the inhalable
people are fighting really hard.
But I think having a morechallenging time and I think it
just touches on this complexityto operating in this space and
and I what I'm curious about isis really about how you think
about engaging as a growingcompany in this complex policy
(46:01):
stuff and I and you have thisapproach that's very uh, real
and uh and curious, uh and alsolike ah, whatever, I'm staying
out of this, I just know it'slegal, whatevs kind of thing.
But at some point you'vestarted to build something
really real and you want toprotect it and stick up for it,
(46:24):
and I'm wondering if you aregetting involved personally and
thinking about using the voicethat you've created to bring all
of these new consumers into thespace and teach them about THC,
if you're thinking aboutbringing that to the steps of of
state legislatures andadvocating for the plant and for
(46:44):
access.
Kimmie Gamez (46:46):
So in my entire professional career I've never
liked to take talk aboutpolitics, really take a stance
publicly one way or another,just because, like for like, I
had restaurants and bars for 17years.
Our customers are on both sides, so I had to stay very vanilla,
even though I know, as abusiness leader, I should use my
voice.
It's hard because I don't.
(47:07):
I love all of our customers andI don't really necessarily care
Like.
I do care, but I want to takecare of them and they will have
their own reasons to sit on oneside or the other.
As far as the smokeable, um, I'mnot a smoker and when we've,
you know, we have this thingcalled customer personas we say,
like who is our like number onecustomer?
(47:29):
Like, obviously it's not likethe one person, but like who
does she represent?
Like the person who's buyingthe most from us, the person
who's a repeat customer?
Or like she's a 40 year oldprofessional who has at least
one child, who still works?
You know her professional job,she's not smoking, and so for me
that's an easy.
(47:49):
Why would I bring in smokablesand potentially not want her to
represent?
Like, because you have to thinkpeople wear Lululemon or Nike
or whatever the brand is becauseit's a representation of
themselves, and so if ourcustomer already doesn't smoke,
I don't want them to maybe notwant to purchase from soberish
because we don't like representher.
Well.
(48:09):
But for now again, I don't liketo talk politics that smoke
bowls work for a lot of people.
You know the high milligramdosage and all the things work
for a lot of people.
That's not who I'm fighting for, which is my customer yeah,
yeah, this industry sucks youinto to politics.
Ben Larson (48:26):
I've waffled on this a lot because all my life I was
like I never want to be closeto politics.
And then I got into thecannabis industry and like, boom
, boom, there I am, andsometimes I take a step back.
I'm like it would be so mucheasier just to run my company on
whatever game board is in frontof me, and I would probably
save 30% of my time.
Kimmie Gamez (48:46):
Nice though I found that when you do have a
voice, it's you know, a reasonyou know, and that you put a
story behind it and that youhave empathy for those on the
other side, because typicallythere is something tragic, a
reason why families or peopledon't want, you know, a certain
product in the market and we asan industry should empathize
(49:09):
with them and not just take theother side.
But we need to look at them asmothers, as fathers, as you know
just another human and say I'mso sorry, like what can we do?
Can we not sit on oppositesides of the table?
Can we literally sit on thesame side of the table and try
to create something that worksfor everyone, so that that
(49:31):
doesn't happen again?
And I don't know.
So it's hard, like not to getinvolved.
But when you?
But I just would hope that thebrands, when they do that, they
take that approach and I'mtrying to take that approach.
For example, I sent out an emailto a hundred thousand plus
emails today saying hey, if youare so inclined, there's this
thing happening at the federalgovernment.
(49:52):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Here's the form if you want toquickly take literally one
minute of your time to fill out.
If you do not, that is fine.
I just want you to know what'shappening in our space and I
would really appreciate it andplease let me know if you have
any questions.
And so again, just like I'm notasking you to, I'm leaving this
with you if you'd like to do it, so anyway.
(50:12):
Anyway, again on a tangentthere, but hopefully that all
made sense.
Ben Larson (50:16):
No, absolutely.
I love that.
I just saw a photo on LinkedInyesterday I think it showed,
like Paramount Stein andJonathan Miller and a couple
others, like sitting on the sameside of the table on the hill,
and it's like that's good,that's progress right On the
hill, and it's like that's good,that's progress Right.
That's, you know, building aunified voice when we are
(50:37):
typically used to seeing thesefolks sitting Polar opposite at
the table.
But, yeah, I love that message,kimmy, it is political.
Whether you're engaged or not,you are a public figure In a
politicized space, and so I'mcurious, not having expected to
be here, how does that feel?
(50:59):
You know, wearing that andrepresenting that, and what are
you excited about?
The future of what that meansfor you?
Kimmie Gamez (51:07):
I just left Atlanta for the Hemp Beverage
Expo and people would come up tome like, oh, I follow you.
Or I'll honestly run intorandom strangers when I'm out
and about and they're like, oh,I follow what you're doing, this
is so great and so one.
I'm honored to be in thiscategory.
I'm also it's almost like pinchme that this category actually
(51:32):
respects me Because I knownothing about it.
I'm such an outsider and I feellike any other category, I
think, like automotive.
If there was this six foot tallwhite chick from Michigan that's
like I'm going to start a newcar company but I know nothing
about.
I don't even know how to makean engine or what an engine
looks like.
I would be eaten alive.
This category has been openarms.
(51:53):
Look, I'm on this podcast withyou all.
It's so amazing and so I'mhonored to be here.
I hope I do it justice.
That's why I try not to say toomuch, because I feel like I
just don't know enough to have astance on some things, except
that I know what it's doing forour business, for our customers
and again, just trying toempathize with those that could
(52:14):
potentially be against it.
Ben Larson (52:17):
I think it's that humility that makes people
willing to open their arms toyou.
So the industry is lucky tohave you.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:25):
Yeah, I'm so glad to have your voice out
there.
I've been in cannabis for along time and when legalization
first started unfolding, peopletalked a lot about bringing the
yoga moms and the soccer momsand the new consumers into the
space and they really just nevermaterialized in the dispensary
channel and I think you havereally become an ambassador for
(52:49):
that customer and for women inthe space.
So it's really fun to see whatyou're doing and, with that, as
much as we would love to keephearing about it, it is time for
our last call.
So, kim, what is your finalmessage for our listeners today?
Advice, call to action, closingthought.
(53:10):
Mic is yours.
Kimmie Gamez (53:12):
Yeah, if you're a brand and you're struggling on
where to start marketing, wise,just throw up a camera, start
talking about your journey.
Be a real person.
People will flock to you.
People will want to be a partof your journey, with you, and
so, with that, those that arelistening.
I share every piece of myjourney, whether it's I'm
married to a Mexican man, here'smy farm with my goat named
(53:32):
Turkey and my five kids here inMichigan.
Me struggling on the strugglebus with the business because
something didn't go right, orit's me getting a little stony
baloney with my mom, you know,over some giggle grass infused
cocktails on a Saturdayafternoon.
I post it all on social media,whether it's Instagram, tiktok
or Facebook.
You can typically find me atKimmy Gomez and on LinkedIn.
(53:54):
I would love to connect withany brands or business
professionals there.
I'm trying to stay more activeand share all of my tips and
tricks for things that I'velearned in the industry, because
I'm an open book.
If I can do it, everyone elseshould be able to do it, and so
I just love to share the wisdom.
So follow me there or connectwith me on LinkedIn.
Ben Larson (54:09):
There you have it, folks.
Kimmy Gomez, soberish, thankyou so much.
Thank you, go enjoy some gigglegrass and get Stoney Bologna
and check in.
Let us know how it's going.
Will do All right, we'll talkto you soon.
Kimmie Gamez (54:23):
Thank you.
AnnaRae Grabstein (54:28):
All right, anna Rae Well here's to a little
bit more giggle grass andgetting Stoney Bologna.
She's so fun.
I want to hang out with her.
Like I get why she is a magnetfor women and new consumers.
And and uh, even though shesaid that she doesn't get
involved in politics, then shedropped that.
She sent out an email to ahundred thousand customers.
Um so, uh, I will you know.
(54:48):
I'll call that out, as I thinkthat counts.
And uh, when we have platforms,it is important to use them,
and I think it sounds likeKimmy's doing that.
Ben Larson (54:57):
Absolutely, absolutely Well.
What do you think, folks?
Thank you so much for watching.
Thank you for engaging, liking,subscribing, doing all the
things the new consumer exists.
Don't forget about them.
Thank you to our teams atVirtosa and Wolfmeyer, of course
, our fabulous producer, ericRosetti.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please stop.
(55:18):
Drop a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify, anywhere you listen.
As always, folks stay curious,stay informed and keep your
spirits high Until next time.
That's the show.
I'm like a two to four, six milligram girly tops.
Like I turned into a raginghyena at five milligrams.
Like I can literally notcontrol my face.
I will like giggle.
People will like I thinkthey're looking at me, they're
not.
I start laughing Like it'sawful.
I mean, it's very fun because Ilike to laugh, but then I'm in
pain the next day because mycheeks hurt.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:17):
But anyway, hi friends, I'm Anna Rae,
co-host of High Spirits Pod, andwe are hitting our 100th
episode on August 5th.
We kind of can't believe it,but it's true.
Thanks for coming along for theride, thanks for being a part
of building this community.
Engaging with us, it really,really means a lot.
(00:37):
We are opening up to you, ourlisteners, in hopes that you
will ask us questions.
Anything that you want to knowabout us, about what we think
about the industry, reallyanything.
You can submit your questionsby going to high spirits podcom
slash ask, and you can submitaudio questions or send us a
(00:58):
text, and your submission mighteven end up on the podcast.
We are incredibly grateful forall of the guests who have
joined us over the past twoyears, all of the listeners that
have joined us.
You guys are an incrediblegroup of people that are trying
to up-level what you know aboutcannabis, think about things in
a new way, and we're just reallyglad to be along for the ride
(01:34):
along for the ride.
Ben Larson (01:34):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 98 of High
Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson and, as always,I'm joined today by Anna Rae
Grabstein.
It's Tuesday, july 22, 2025.
And I'm sitting in Denver,colorado, sipping on some one
milligram hemp beverages thatyou can pick up at a bar or
restaurant.
I didn't even know that was athing.
It's one milligram, I'm notgoing to get me too high, but
(01:56):
yeah, kind of normalizing, kindof cool.
Maybe I'll be a little bitsoberish on the show today.
And, rae, how are you?
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:03):
I'm good I'm back at my home studio today,
but I have been on this wildjourney deep in nature.
When I talked to you guys lastweek, I was about to depart and
I spent four days on the RogueRiver so deep in the wilderness
it was absolutely amazing.
(02:23):
I saw a bear, multiple baldeagles, we fished, we rafted, we
capsized, we slept under thestars.
It was fabulous and I totallydisconnected from all technology
and work.
I want to do it more.
I'm kind of sad to be back inlife, but it's cool.
(02:45):
I have a pretty good life too,and I'm aware of that.
Ben Larson (02:48):
Sounds majestic.
I was actually sitting havingcoffee this morning talking to a
couple of colleagues in thespace, and I have realized that
I have this unfounded, not fear,but I think I just decided that
one way I don't want toaccidentally go is drowning in a
capsized river raft, and so Idon't have this calling to go
(03:11):
whitewater rafting like mostpeople do, and I feel kind of
like a little disappointed withmyself, like I want to go white,
I want to want to go whitewaterrafting, if that makes any
sense.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:21):
I will tell you.
So we had these big rafts thatwe could go on in, the white
router rafts, or there were theinflatable whitewater kayaks and
there was singles and doublesand I went in a double kayak.
I was feeling confident with myeight-year-old son and I was in
the back steering, and we wentthrough one rapid.
(03:41):
It was great.
And the second rapid, we fullycapsized.
We both were out of the boat.
It was great.
And the second rapid, we fullycapsized.
We both were out of the boat.
I was floating down the riverquickly in front of him.
I turned back and saw hislittle helmet above the water,
so I knew he was okay.
But he was screaming and cryingand I immediately felt like, oh
my gosh, I can't help.
What do I do?
It was terrifying.
(04:03):
So I understand your fear andwe got through it.
It was fine.
It was totally safe.
He got back in the boat.
We had people around, but uh,yeah, not for the, not for the
faint of heart well, I will.
Ben Larson (04:19):
I will stay here and drink my coffee, and at the
clayton in denver.
It's a lovely spot.
Cherry creek, uh yeah.
And um hotel yeah, it's solid.
Got a nice little steam roominggym downstairs, pool on top and
you can order your fables atthe pool.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:35):
And again, I just this podcast is not
sponsored by fable no, no infact.
Ben Larson (04:41):
In fact uh, shout out to fabric, who I I also been
drinking they have a one and ahalf milligram.
So weird, colorado.
This is also going to be alearning opportunity, not just
an advertisement for Fabric andFable and also High Spirits,
although that says fivemilligrams, it's not allowed.
Oops, anyways, colorado, weirdlimits 1.75 milligrams of THC
(05:05):
plus at least 15 milligrams ofCBD or CBD or something, and so
that's what they've determinedthey being the legislators and
policymakers to benon-intoxicating.
And so we were meeting as thehemp beverage coalition here in
Colorado last night A greatgroup of people, people, a lot
of people that you've known inthe industry for for decade or
(05:27):
more trying to get that 1.75elevated to five so that we can
harmonize, like what's going onin all the other states.
Of course, that would requireremoving that 15 milligram
requirement and maybe removingthe word of non-intoxicating,
but, yeah, interestingfoundation, yeah, and that you
(05:48):
have a framework that works inwhere alcohol is sold.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:50):
Well, I think it's a great segue into talking
about some of the news that istop of mind in the space state
that has a pretty significanthemp industry that is talking
(06:10):
about intoxicating hempregulation or prohibition, and
that is Texas, texas.
So, yes, yesterday the sessionbegan, the special session that
the governor called, and thegovernor, as we all remember,
vetoed SB3 and directed thelegislature to continue its work
on hemp.
And yesterday that sessionstarted and Senator Charles
(06:33):
Perry basically reintroduced SB3as Senate Bill 5.
And the bill bans mostcannabinoids except CBD and CBG
and creates a bunch of criminalpenalties for sales and
possession and a lot of the samethings that SB3 does.
And this is just the beginningof a discussion.
(06:53):
It's what it sounds like.
It's the beginning of anegotiation.
I've been doing a lot ofnegotiations recently and I
think it's interesting to seehow people start off, like how
they want to play their hand,how aggressive they want to
start, and I think it'sinteresting to see how people
start off like how they want toplay their hand, how aggressive
they want to start, and I thinkthat what we're seeing is that
the prohibitionists in Texas arestarting out with a fairly
aggressive stance, but we havesome time to see where this
(07:15):
lands and where compromisehappens.
So I don't know.
The governor called forregulations, not prohibition.
What do you think?
Ben Larson (07:24):
Yeah, but the prohibitionists are still
calling for prohibition.
They've done so with SB5.
They've started the hearingthis morning.
It's been live streaming.
It might be live streamingright now when basically, we're
hearing the same talk track ofreefer madness and just trying
to say that this is equivalentto heroin and killing kids and
(07:45):
yada, yada, yada.
So same shit different day andwe just need to see where the
negotiation goes.
It feels kind of helpless, youknow, sitting on the outside,
but you know we do have peopleon the ground live tweeting or
slacking or whatever it is.
We need to see positivemovement here because it's not
the only state where this isbeing discussed.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:16):
And we have the federal discussion as well.
Cannabis that is being exportedinto Germany and it's really
pretty wild to see what'shappening.
Canada accounted for 43% of theimported dried flower into
Germany for the first quarter ofthis year and it actually seems
(08:37):
to be looking like the importedflower volume in 2025 is double
2024.
So we're talking about 100%growth in the market year over
year.
And Canada is just getting tohave it all because the US is
fighting over state levelprohibition instead of opening
(08:59):
up access to a global market forcannabis.
And the US could be thisincredible dominant global
player.
But unless the US shifts itsfederal prohibition on cannabis
exports and on cannabis ingeneral, it's going to continue
to forfeit all of thisopportunity that the Canadians
are just really happy to takeadvantage of while we sit on the
(09:21):
sidelines.
Ben Larson (09:22):
Yes, and they're really happy because it's saving
their businesses.
So I don't think the Canadianswould be so happy if they were
having to compete with us forthe demand in Germany.
So you know, I was talking tosome Canadian friends and
everyone knows the market's beenup there, has been pretty
dismal or just completelydominated by a few different
(09:43):
operations, but now, because ofthis dynamic, it is actually
more advantageous for them tosell into Germany than it is to
focus on their own domesticsales.
So yeah, it's an interestingmarket.
But yeah, I agree with you, Ithink the U?
S is far behind what theCalifornia manufacturers are are
being accused of doingillegally throughout the us.
(10:06):
The us wants to do legallyaround the world.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:10):
um, so we have a long ways to go to catch
up yeah, for years people havealways said that the canadian
cannabis was mids and thatcalifornia cannabis growers were
producing way better quality.
But doesn't really matter,because that's what's available
on the market and and I will sayI think the quality in Canada
has stepped up.
It's not bad, yeah.
So last little news updatebefore we jump into our awesome
(10:35):
guest, who's going to be waymore interesting than these
newest updates, is that theSenate did just this morning
confirm Terrence Cole to be thenew permanent leader of the DEA,
and obviously all of you knowwhat the DEA is, but notably
they are the agency in charge ofthe rescheduling process.
So we'll see what happens underthe new Cole administration at
(10:59):
the DEA.
More on that in the comingmonths.
Ben Larson (11:02):
More on that to come , and I did see NCAA just
released a press release urgingMr Cole to reassess rescheduling
, which is the number one thingthe DEA could probably do for us
in the near future, and whatI've been hearing from different
circles around the industry isthat maybe come fall, I think
(11:24):
there'll be a lot of pressure tosee rescheduling resurface in
the fall, so that would beamazing.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:30):
If we could be done with 280E before, before
the next tax year.
So anyway, today, on highspirits, we are talking with the
founder, who's not justbuilding a business.
She's reshaping how we'rethinking about drinking,
sobriety and what it means tofeel good.
I'm really excited to welcomeKim Gomez, who's a serial
(11:51):
entrepreneur and founder ofSoberish, which is an online
marketplace selling hemp-basedand non-alcoholic social
alternatives.
She went from a viral TikTokexperiment to a multi-million
dollar brand without a dollarspent on ads, so we're going to
hear about that.
What makes Kim's story sointeresting isn't just the
(12:12):
numbers, but it's also just theway that she's gone about it in
this bold, viral way, buildingsomething unique and special.
I stumbled on it I don't know,at least over a year ago,
because I was surprised thatthere were so many hemp brands
selling DTC, but there wasn'treally a curated store that you
could go to and see manydifferent brands or order
(12:36):
multiple products from differentcompanies at once, and Soberish
was actually the first companythat I saw doing that, which was
really exciting, and since thenthere have been some others
that have followed behind I'dsay fast followers, like I know
that Juana started a marketplacewhere they've curated some
additional products to their own, but I think that Soberish was
(13:00):
the first and really has taken adifferent approach to targeting
the consumer and curating areally cool mix of brands.
Ben Larson (13:08):
Yeah, no, I love it and I just, I just love the word
and I'm going to try to bringKimmy back up so she can join in
on the conversation, but Ithink it's just such a great
brand asset and I'm a big fan ofbeing sober.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:24):
We're really excited to welcome Kim today to
High Spirits.
Hi Kim.
Kimmie Gamez (13:29):
I'm sorry, I apologize.
About technology, it's onething, obviously, we love all
things technology, whether it'smarketing or the marketplace,
but man, is it failing us today?
So thank you first and foremostfor having me.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:42):
Oh, thanks for being here, and you sound
better now.
It's great.
So why don't you tell us wherethe name Soberish came from,
since we were just talking aboutit?
Kimmie Gamez (13:54):
and we think it's really creative and fun.
So you talked a little bitabout this.
Soberish was like a socialexperiment.
I was in my past life, with myprevious companies, I led all
things marketing, and so I wasreally just trying to see if I
could keep my marketing chops,because I took an amazing role
leading entrepreneurship andinnovation at Michigan State
University's Research Foundation.
So I just want to stay relevantand so I'm like I'm going to
use this app called TikTok and,you know, see if I can crack the
(14:15):
algorithm and then go back tomy teams and help, you know,
coach them with this newtrending tool.
And my daughter was like I waslike honey, I need who's 15?
.
I'm like you need to likecreate a name and whatever.
And she and I well, I'd started.
I was like Kim Gomez, something, something, number, number.
And she's like mom, that is solame, kimmy G.
And so we changed my name toKimmy G and so originally, when
(14:40):
we had the whole idea forsoberish, I was like what do we
call it?
Kimmy G's, something or another, and I'm like it's like we're
sober but not sober ish.
And I was like GoDaddycom isthe domain available?
So, yeah, that's how the namecame about.
AnnaRae Grabstein (14:55):
That's amazing.
Ben Larson (14:56):
That's awesome.
So you were launching Soberish.
But how was that interface inyour like discovery of where I
know you from the hemp beveragecommunity?
Was that all one and the same,or was it just this broader
concept of non-alcoholic kind oflifestyle?
Kimmie Gamez (15:14):
Oh, my goodness, it was like the happiest little
accident.
So, again, I'm a serialentrepreneur, have led a couple
companies to acquisition and mylast company I was like well, it
was a marketplace, grew to acouple million users and it was
acquired back in 2021.
And at the time I was like I amnot doing this again.
It's like a roller coasterbeing a founder, even though
there's, like you know, bigpayoffs, at the end it could all
(15:35):
crash and burn at any point.
And so I'm like I'm just goingto take this win and enjoy it.
And I got bored.
You know, I took this job at theuniversity and I'm like I'm
used to working founders hours,and so my mom, who struggles
with alcoholism, moved in withus.
It was actually two years ago,so I just actually saw like our
very first video and I was likemom, like let's try some of
these, like sober, like sobercurious is like this movement,
(15:57):
there's all these non-alcoholicproducts.
Like maybe we should try one.
And I want to do a video of uslike just because I want to use
this tool.
And so, yeah, I'm like I was anon-cannabis user, guys, I knew
nothing about any of it.
Like I was raised in the dareera.
I was like, oh no, Kim Gomezcan't do those things.
(16:18):
And so my very first product Itried was Little Saints, and it
had CBD in it.
And I remember asking my momI'm like, oh my gosh, are we
going to get high Like her mom's?
like old pro she's like no, likewe'll be just fine.
Well, and then so we tried itand I did not like it, but we
(16:42):
did a video and like so peoplewere like commenting other
products we should try, and sowe got our hands on some can and
again got the can and it waslike or got the products and
like two milligrams of THC and Idon't know four CBD or whatever
it is, and again, so we'reagain prop up the phone, I want
to use this tool and I'm likeall right, so nervous, like I
(17:03):
was like being completely raw,like in the video, sweating, and
I'm like it's probably gonnataste like a skunk's ass, but
mom and I are ready with doritosin case we get too stoned.
Like the couch is clean, likelet's do it.
And so mom and her still thereand I'm I now.
I think people on the other endof the camera probably like oh,
these poor souls.
But now I took it and I'm like,wait a minute, it actually
(17:26):
tastes really good, like what,and it's only 10 calories or
whatever it was in it.
And I was like what, and so I'mlike okay, I'll report back on
effects.
Well, I ended up getting alittle buzz and then totally
forgot about the camera.
So the next day I was like okay, so I have to say what happened
, and so I like just talk, likeyou know so.
I was like it felt like mine,you know.
And so what happened is peopleon the other end of the camera
(17:48):
watching this like shit show ofa series that I had started were
like, where can I get it?
Like how did you really feellike, did it?
Did it taste like skunk?
And it's like no, they're likebut is it like are you gonna go
to jail?
And I'm like I don't think so,and so, just me and my own
capacity, I'm like looking up,like how am I able to ship this
into michigan?
Like, and can I go to jailhaving this with me?
(18:10):
And so, yeah, that's how it allstarted and that's honestly.
I never wanted to become abusiness.
I honestly just wanted to seeif I could crack that silly
algorithm.
And but then brands startedseeing some of our videos were
like going viral and brands werereaching out for us to try
their products.
So my mom and I turned intothese really cringy influencers
trying a bunch of products andit was was really fun.
(18:31):
I mean, honestly, some of ourbest videos are just mom and I
just like belly laughing, likeabsolutely laughing, just like
raging hyenas and like we don'teven say anything, and those are
the ones that have gone likemega crazy, viral and so fun to
do it with my mom, sorry, backup, half of the products that
brands would send us weregarbage, and so I'm like, why is
(18:51):
there not like an Angie's listfor these products?
And so I'm like I can do amarketplace.
That was my last company didthat Like, let me just see, let
me just do a test.
And so I threw up like onelanding page with links out to
all the brands to trackconversions and I was like I'll
just see how much, how manysales we're getting for these
(19:12):
products we're talking about,and I thought maybe we were
selling like a couple of cases.
I didn't know.
We had $60,000 in sales throughthose links in the first month,
and so I was like, damn it,this is a business, this isn't a
hobby.
So, yeah, heads down built thisbridge we launched last
february, like a year and a halfago and now your mom's an
influencer.
(19:32):
Yeah, I love it yes and it isher birthday today, so oh, happy
birthday, mom.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:39):
Well, so this , this concept of a marketplace,
you talk about how organicallyit started, but really, when you
guys, there weren't any othermarketplaces for hemp beverages
and hemp intoxicating productsout there and I think it was a
really unique idea, why wasnobody else doing it?
(20:00):
Did you realize that no one wasdoing it when you did it, that
it was this really uniqueopportunity in the space at the
time?
Kimmie Gamez (20:07):
I would hate to think we were the first, because
there were other just likemarketplaces for all things like
hemp, cannabis, like smokablesand all of the things.
But they were very much likewhen I went to visit them.
It was like THC and big potleaves and like neon flashing
lights and all these things, andI was like, oh, like my kids
are going to see me on thiswebsite, you know.
And so, honestly, I was likeLike my kids are going to see me
(20:29):
on this website, you know.
And so honestly, I was like canI think there needs to be a
site for people just like me whoare very curious about this
category, who are non-cannabisusers, who do not understand the
cannabinoids, who do notunderstand all the science?
They just really want to knowhow does it taste and how am I
going to feel, and justliterally someone holding their
(20:51):
hand.
And so I think our whole ideaof being video first is because,
like, if you come to Soberish,the first video on the site is
like hey, girl, welcome, because98% of our customers are girls.
Like hey, girl welcome.
Like what are you interested in?
Like what are you here for?
Ben Larson (21:19):
And like one of the prompts is like I'm so terrified
but I really want to learn more.
You know like, and then we justwalk them through like a quiz,
like, and give them like sixoptions at the end, just as if
you're walking into a bottleshop or to a bar.
I of them are that kind oftotal new where, like, you're
helping convert them into thespace or in at least introduce
them potentially to the products.
Kimmie Gamez (21:36):
I would say over 90%.
So I don't know like we're notcapturing the data, like how
many times have you consumedcannabis?
But you know they're definitelyinterested in low dose options.
I'm terrified of getting twostoned.
So I think I joke that.
I think everybody has that gummystory.
You know that they had a gummyor took too many and then all of
(21:57):
a sudden, you know, ended uptwo stony baloney, as I say on
social media, and there's likethat was my thing.
I took a gummy with my brotherI have no idea how many, how
much, how much it was and I waslike where are my kneecaps?
I can't feel my legs.
Wait, I can feel my ankles, butI can't feel my like whatever.
And I'm like why would anyonewant to feel this way?
So I never tried another productagain and so I feel like, for
(22:17):
the most part, all of ourcustomers either are in that
never have tried, or they havehad something and had a bad
experience, whether it wasstraight THC and got a little
bit anxious or too much, um, butare definitely that.
You know it's not that theywant they have an issue with
alcohol, it's that they justwant an alternative one that you
(22:38):
know maybe our customers are ona weight loss journey so they
don't want the empty calories.
They also, um, can't hang withthe hangovers.
You know I hate, and I know wedon't really talk about that,
because you can get likehangover experience if you have
like too much cannabis or mix itor however, but for the most
part, I mean they're justlooking for alternatives in
their lifestyle.
Ben Larson (22:57):
Yeah, I love it that you're creating a place for
these products, because one ofthe conversations that we're
having in the space right now iswhat is the right dosing?
And I know in the space rightnow is what is the right dosing?
And I know it's a very broadanswer, very nuanced.
But when you ask a retailer andretailers will answer on based
on what it's selling it'susually capping out at whatever
(23:18):
is available in the market.
In most cases we're talkinglike 10 milligrams, like 10
milligrams are outselling fivemilligrams, you know 20 to one
or something like that.
And then you talk to otherbrands that are leveraging other
marketplaces and they're likeoh, 50 milligrams saved our
company.
And you go into a dispensaryand it's all 100 milligrams, and
so what happens is like thesenew consumers kind of have the
(23:42):
potential to get shut out of thegame because a retailer is just
following the money.
And I'm just curious as to yourperspective on that particular
conversation.
Kimmie Gamez (23:51):
Yeah, and I love this because I'm like a two to
four, six milligram girly tops,Like I turned into a raging
hyena at five milligrams, Like Ican literally not control my
face.
I will like giggle.
People will like I thinkthey're looking at me, they're
not.
I start laughing Like it'sawful.
I mean it's very fun because Ilike to laugh, but then I'm in
pain the next day because mycheeks hurt.
But anyway, my whole concernwith that is again I can only
(24:17):
speak for myself and ourcustomers is that if she has
already had a bad experiencewith a gummy and she goes into a
store and the only thing that'savailable or the only products
that are like kind of pushed orrecommended are 10 milligrams,
she's going to have that exactsame experience with that 10
milligram can as she had withthat 10 milligram gummy.
(24:39):
And because I don't think in ona retail store shelf they're
educating If you're new, startwith two milligrams.
And again, because it's not aconsumer behavior to open up a
can, to drink a quarter of thecan, Like it's, that's not
normal, Like you want to downthe entire beverage, Right.
And so I just think there's somuch we can do and that's like
(25:02):
kind of the next phase ofSoberish is like how can we help
both on premise, so inrestaurants and bars, as well as
in retail, because we areworking with, like you know, so
many brands in the category, butalso we really I think I don't
want to say we've nailed, butwe've worked really hard to try
to educate the consumer and Ithink we can bring that into
stores as well.
AnnaRae Grabstein (25:24):
You.
You brought up your consumergoing into a store or
potentially a dispensary.
You know that your home stateis Michigan store or potentially
a dispensary.
I know that your home state isMichigan, which is considered a
mature cannabis market.
There's been a medical programthere for a really long time and
adult use the prices are knownto be some of the cheapest in
the nation and the legalregulated space how, how do you
(25:44):
think about how you fit in andwhat you're doing as it relates
to the to the adult useregulated cannabis market?
Kimmie Gamez (25:53):
Again, I have only ever stepped foot in one
dispensary in my entire life,even when I was doing customer
discovery.
That was the one time Cause Iwas like, oh, and I'm like
somebody's gonna recognize mycar.
Like look at, think about howabsolutely stupid this sounds.
But I was like somebody's goingto recognize my car and be like
(26:15):
that's Kim Gomez, she is abusiness owner in town.
Like that was just that stigmathat I was raised with.
That I'm like what am I?
What am I doing?
And then I went in and I wasjust completely overwhelmed and
again it was just this reallyuncomfortable situation of them
like scanning my ID and I'm like, oh, my like, how, why is this
so hard?
And then I just felt soembarrassed asking questions
with these like ultraprofessionals, these bud tenders
(26:35):
behind the counter, and I'mlike this is just.
I just felt like this wasn'tmeant for me and so for us.
I think both things need toexist.
I think the heavy consumersthat are using cannabis for a
certain way, that need thatreally high, you know, milligram
count dispensaries go wherethey can get those high potency.
But then you need that likevery basic beginner level that
(26:58):
somebody should be able to ordera two to five milligram drink
at a bar, or order, you know, orgrab products on retail shelves
or, hopefully you know, comeand try products at Silverish.
Did that answer the question?
AnnaRae Grabstein (27:10):
You have just described in such an important,
clear nutshell kind of the, theopportunity that is outside of
the adult use channel, and howmany consumers, clearly like
yourself, are not being reachedby the dispensary model.
And I think that, within thecontext of access and choice,
(27:31):
dispensaries aren't hitting itfor everybody and it's it's
really it's nice to have you outhere educating the world about
this whole other group of peoplethat do deserve to have access
to cannabis products but aremost likely not going to enter a
dispensary a second time.
Kimmie Gamez (27:49):
Right.
Ben Larson (27:50):
Talking about this like regulatory convergence and
like creating what sounds like abifurcated system.
I think this is the kind of atopic that comes up a lot.
Even last night at the HempBeverage Coalition meeting.
In its current state and I knowthat's very fluid we mentioned
Texas at the top of the show.
You know there's the federalconversation going on, but how
(28:18):
do you, kimmy, as a platform,really navigate the complexity
of the landscape?
Right now and I talked to a lotof brand owners every brand
owner has a differentinterpretation of what they're
comfortable with versus the nextbrand, and so you're one that
kind of is representing a brandin of itself was soberish, but
also kind of reflecting whereall these other brands are being
sold.
So it's like what's yourphilosophy around just
(28:40):
navigating this, this fluidlegislative landscape?
Kimmie Gamez (28:44):
Oh, isn't our industry like a dumpster fire,
like every day?
It's something like every day,yeah.
Like the technology wasn'tworking.
I'm like it's like we don'thave enough to deal with.
You know, like everything inour industry, like my computer
should at least work, but yeah,so it's tough.
I mean so every brand.
So, again, going back to thebrands that we allow on our site
(29:06):
, we don't allow just anyone.
We do our full compliance of.
We have products shipped to us,we taste test them, we're
checking packaging, we'rechecking COAs, we're checking
their social media accounts,because these brands are a
direct reflection of Soberish,and so, with that, they also,
though, have their own what thestates they ship to.
(29:28):
So we try to stay flexible withthe brands, and, because of the
way that our platform is built,that there are some brands that
are shipping into 30 states,there's other brands that are
shipping into 46 states, and sowe're able to navigate that and
try to keep it, you know, notsuper confusing for the end
customer, but and just againapologize and using a lot of
(29:49):
content on online to talk, youknow, about our category and the
nuances, and so far that thecustomers have been receptive to
it, though, and can you talk alittle bit just to the extent
you're comfortable about whatthat kind of infrastructure
looks like?
Ben Larson (30:04):
Are you leveraging their existing 3PL systems or
are you like managing all yourown logistics?
Kimmie Gamez (30:10):
No, I'd love to tell you because I worked really
hard I was like team of one foralmost like a year building
Soberish.
So we built actually on Shopifyand then we have this really
incredible API connector on thebackend and it basically, if a
brand is on Shopify, we canconnect directly into via our
(30:34):
API, into their site, and so itis essentially a dropship model
and so we can connect and gettheir images, inventory counts,
variants, all the things, and atany time those things change on
their site.
Let's say they go out of stock,it comes out of stock on ours.
But on the flip side of that,when a customer orders let's say
they order Cycling, frog,costallo and Snoozy Gummies, she
(30:58):
gets one checkout experiencefrom Soberish.
She gets an email, thank youfor your order, and on the back
end it calls and makes orders ontheir platform, and so then
when those brands fulfill, theynotify us or our system.
They don't do anything, theyjust like fulfill their order in
Shopify like anybody else would, and then the information comes
back to Soberish, notifies thecustomer your snoozy gummies are
(31:21):
on their way, your Costello ison its way, and so it's seamless
because, again so, mybackground, my previous company,
was a marketplace and I saidthe only way for this to work is
if it's seamless.
Because, again so, my background, my previous company, was a
marketplace and I said the onlyway for this to work is if it's
a win-win for everyone and ifit's simple.
These brands do not want tobabysit one additional platform.
They don't want to have toupdate images anywhere when
they're out of stock.
They don't have to be like ohcrap, we have to go out of stock
(31:41):
on Sogrish.
No, all that information needsto pass over and it literally
needs to have like sign up infive minutes or less.
So our team, we can sign upbrands in five minutes or less
and customers have this againseamless shopping experience.
That again seems to be working,knock on wood.
But yeah, so that's how it allworks.
Is that what you're asking?
I'm assuming.
Ben Larson (32:00):
Yeah, that's awesome .
Thank you for going on thatgeeky journey.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:03):
I mean, I think that there are two ways to
look at building and it's usingoff the shelf tools and being
able to scale quickly with withtools that are exist other in
other places that you don't haveto be maintaining.
And then there's people thatare bringing in capital and
trying to build from scratch andand I think that what you've
described is is such a scalable,fast to market model that I I
(32:27):
really respect and I think itmakes a ton of sense and I love
the idea of a customer or abrand being able to get on the
platform so fast.
Will you share with us a littlebit about the level of scale
that you've achieved, how manyorders or customers, revenue,
whatever it is?
That are some ways that we canunderstand the growth from when
you started to where you aretoday.
Kimmie Gamez (32:46):
Yeah.
So again, I just went frommaking silly, you know, videos
with my mom.
I mean, they weren't likedances or anything crazy, we
were just giving like authenticreviews of these products.
Um, so that started two yearsago and February of last year,
so 18 months or, yeah, uh, 18months ago we launched soberish
and I thought let's justcontinue to try to drive this
(33:08):
organically.
Let's see what we can dowithout ads.
I'm like I don't want to giveFacebook $1.
Let's see what we can do.
I told my mom I said wouldn'tit be great if we could do
$100,000 this year without ads?
And she was like no way.
I'm like, let's try.
I'm like wouldn't that be fun?
We have to like keep up on ourstuff.
We did a million dollars in.
(33:29):
I remember when we firstlaunched we got like 600 orders
in like I don't know one of thelike very first days and I was
panicking because I'm like Ihope this site that I've been
doing all by myself actuallyworks, because I thought I'm
going to trickle in orders andlike test.
I didn't actually realizepeople were going to use it.
(33:50):
So that was last year and thenso in January of this year I
thought, well, that's silly Kim,take your own coaching advice.
If this is what you're doingwithout ads, think about what
you can do with ads.
And so we're going to.
We're on track to do 7 millionthis year and yeah, it's been.
It's been absolutely crazy.
So orders I think we're at like100,000 customers or we'll hit
(34:14):
that soon.
Yeah, it's just been absolutelycrazy to just kind of see
unfold.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:20):
And of those customers?
Are they coming back andordering more?
Are you doing a subscriptionmodel, which we're seeing a lot
of DTC brands do?
What are some of the patternsand behaviors that you're
noticing?
Kimmie Gamez (34:32):
Yeah.
So around 30% of our customersare repeat customers.
One of our number one skews isour soberish sampler.
So when we first launched,soberish customers are reaching
out and saying which products doyou recommend?
But can I buy like one of, likea variety?
(34:52):
And I'm like that's just nothow our model works, like I
can't, I can't do that, I can'thave the brands.
Just lend you one, you know can.
And so I just reached out tosome of the brands that we were
friendly with and I'm like hey,would you send me like a hundred
cans and I'll market them.
You don't have to pay anythingoutside of just the product.
You send me the product, I'llput together this sampler, we'll
sell it online, I'll covershipping, I'll cover all the
(35:14):
other things that go along withselling a product, and it'll be
samples and honestly, in frontof customers that you probably
would never be in front of.
And yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I'm like, wow, that waseasy.
And so we did that.
We launched our very first boxsold out in like two hours, I
(35:36):
think it was.
So was so crazy, and so then itwas let's try to do this once
every other month.
And so that started and nowfast forward again 18 months
later.
Where we are, we do at least umtwo to three samplers per month
and so we've have 500 um.
We have 500 sampler boxes perlaunch.
So brands now send us 500samples.
(35:57):
But again, it's a greatopportunity for brands to get
new products.
So if they're launching a newSKU and they want to get that
product, you know, into thehands of somebody who is paying
for the sample, that's adifferent mindset.
Somebody at a grocery storewho's just going to take the
free sample, just to take thesample, is a person.
But there's another personwho's paying for samples because
they actually want to buy.
(36:17):
So, going back to your originalquestion about retention, 67%
of customers who buy thatsampler box come back and buy a
full-size item.
Ben Larson (36:26):
That sounds like a pretty decent logistics lift and
just rewinding going to amillion instead of a hundred
thousand, like you're 10 X inyour your target.
So with that comes probablysome growing pains, I'm assuming
.
What are some of the like pinchpoints that you have felt over
(36:46):
the last 18 months that reallyrequired you to sit down Like
how do I solve this?
Like what do I need to hire for?
You know what were some ofthose, those growing pains?
Kimmie Gamez (36:56):
Customer support one.
You know, these brandsobviously are all shipping from
different locations at differenttimes, so that is sometimes a
bit, you know, confusing for acustomer.
Um, so we've hired a customerservice team to handle, you know
, customer service.
Gosh, there's just so much.
(37:17):
There's things like obviouslyoutside, like even when we
started that I didn't even thinkabout.
I'm like what do you mean?
I can't just use Shopifypayments, Like I have to use a
payment provider and then afteryou hit a certain threshold you
have different insurancerequirements and all of these
things.
I don't know.
There's just been so muchInventory management, running
ads.
Now that we're running ads,that is a beast.
(37:38):
Just because I came from a worldwhere anything kind of goes in
ads and this, I can't sayanything.
I'm literally selling snake oil, I feel like on social media,
and then driving them to a pagethat I still can't tell them
what they're buying, and then ithas to be at least one more
click in before I can be likegirl, it's THC.
Sorry, sorry about all thatback there, I actually can THC.
(38:01):
I always call it the gigglegrass, but so that's just all of
that is just so many learnings,so many challenges, Also with
everything that's happening, youknow state by state.
The customers have questions.
You know, in Texas, for example, a lot of our customers there
were like so where will I beable to buy the products?
And it's like nothing passed,so like you're okay for now.
(38:24):
And so there's just all this,because we're educating our
customer.
She comes to us as a friend,like so what now?
Or what should I do, or all ofthese things.
It's all overwhelming, but Ihave an amazing team, so we were
really enjoying like buildingthis together.
Ben Larson (38:43):
I'm going to keep you around, just so you can help
expand my vocabulary.
I'm really liking giggle grassand stony bologna, like this is.
This is excellent.
Kimmie Gamez (38:49):
Every video.
I'm like all right guys, I gota little stony bologna in the
grass last night.
Every video I'm like all rightguys, I got a little stone on
the grass last night.
AnnaRae Grabstein (38:57):
So you talked about coaching entrepreneurship
in the university setting andyou got there from a long kind
of career doing a bunch ofdifferent things and you share
online a lot about how you havea big family and you've started
a bunch of restaurants and anapp that you exited.
You know I'm wondering whatyou're building for this time.
(39:19):
What's the long game here?
Kimmie Gamez (39:22):
Goodness, there was no game.
That's the thing.
There was no.
Like I'm going to start thisbusiness to do this.
It was my mom needs me tosupport her.
Let's try to make this fun.
Was my mom needs me to supporther?
Let's try to make this fun?
So it really started with, likehow can we make you know this
responsible way of living funinstead of her always feeling
(39:44):
like she was like left out ofthe fun?
And so now, honestly, like if Icould touch more people like my
mom, who now has been soberwell, sober ish, but alcohol
free, you know for two years,you know if I can help support
them, great, but I'm also not afool girl.
I am doing this to make money.
So one day, if it's anacquisition, if it's building a
big brand that we're acquiringother brands, who knows I'm here
(40:05):
?
This has been.
It was a hobby.
It was just.
There was no gain, there was noplan, and I think that's what
makes it so beautiful, because Ididn't overthink anything.
I just let things happen and Ikept my eyes and ears open to
what was happening around me.
Even when it came to socialmedia, I was just.
I'm like I don't.
I've never made content online.
(40:26):
I always drove our teams tomake content for marketing but,
like I was never the face of ourbrands.
So I'm like nobody's going tofollow this 40 year old woman
who knows absolutely nothingabout these products that she's
consuming, and but I just waslike I'm just going to throw
this out here and I'm like, wow,that actually really worked.
Why did it work?
Can I do more of that?
Is there like a recipe or likea, like a model that I can mimic
(40:49):
?
And so it's just been reallynice to be able to like do all
of those things.
And then now I'm like holy,like I would have never thought
we would be here right now.
For, you know, as far as saleswise and number of customers,
it's hard to think big pictureand answer your question when,
again, our industry it's likeit's in a constant limbo.
And so I just want to continueto create a great, you know,
(41:11):
continue to support great brands, make great products, keep
customers happy, bringing morepeople into the category, and
then, at the end of the day, ifthere is some big sale or some
big win, I'm here for that.
Ben Larson (41:23):
You say continuing, so that means you're at least
enjoying it right now.
You know it's always a mixedbag when you talk to operators
in the space, so it's great tosee you finding a customer and a
, you know, a focused customerand really leaning into it.
We've talked a lot about thebeverage category kind of
(41:43):
tangentially today, but I wantto hear a little bit more about
what you see as the productsthat Soberish will continue to
offer or expand into.
You know, over the years, orjust, let's just say, the next
18 months, is there room forultra low dose edibles?
You know, I know you talkedabout your gummy experience.
(42:05):
Gummies are typically five or10 milligrams, if not more.
But I've always wondered it'slike, oh, maybe you could get a
box of candies, or each one isone milligram or something like
that.
And how do you think aboutinhalables?
Kimmie Gamez (42:19):
Great question.
So we initially startedSoberish, to kind of be your
virtual bartender to help you inthis category of beverages, and
we quickly added on gummies,really because more people were
familiar with gummies in thiscategory, and so it was like so
(42:40):
this beverage is like this kindof gummy.
They're similar, you're goingto feel the same way, but this
will actually like the wholelike nature of consuming a
beverage.
This you can have something inyour hand at a party where a
gummy you're going to like popbefore you go to the party.
And so we have gummies, we havesome mints now we just brought
on 1906.
So we have some.
(43:00):
They're drops or they're likepill.
You know format that they have.
Yeah, I mean, I don't see usgetting into any type of
smokable again, are really justthinking about what our brand
represents and it's, you know,trying to.
You know, if you want to take abreak from alcohol, this is an
opportunity and so any kind ofliquid form consumable is what
(43:21):
we're experimenting or we'relooking at.
Um, as far as what was theother question?
Oh, low dose.
So I do see where low dosebeverage, like the ones that
you're enjoying, you're able tosit there now and probably have
multiple cans, just as if youwere drinking a Miller Lite or
(43:41):
something and I'm not sayingthat's your drink of choice, but
you know what I mean Like youcan have multiple drinks, you
know.
In an event, the problem is cost.
If we can just throw it outthere, you know people don't
want to spend $4 a can at retail, or $5 or $6 or whatever it's
costing.
Like that's the kind of anexpensive evening at home they
(44:03):
might.
They'll be willing to pay, Ithink, at a restaurant, but not
when they're buying it in retail.
And so I think people, untilthe cost comes down, they're
going to be those value shoppersand I think that's what's
moving the 10 milligram optionsin store.
Ben Larson (44:16):
That's a really good point.
Kimmie Gamez (44:17):
And then, as far as on edibles, I would argue I
mean, it's not like you'rehaving an edible to be like, oh,
craving that like sweet treatno, because then you'd want to
eat the whole bag.
So I don't know if there's amarket for like a one milligram
gummy.
Again, because I think our, ourcustomer she might be new, but
she's not stupid Like, can Ijust like bite that in half or
in a quarter to get themilligrams that I need.
(44:38):
And so I really do love thebrands that are like scoring
their gummies because, again,it's just like really
simplifying what you need to doas a beginner.
Just take this much Um, butyeah, I don't, I don't know as
far as edibles.
I do see how it could work onbeverages, but yeah, I don't
know as far as edibles.
AnnaRae Grabstein (44:55):
I do see how it could work.
On beverages, I want to push alittle harder on the inhalables
question because I think thatyou make it seem like a very
simple choice and I think thatit actually it kind of crosses
over into a lot of thelegislative kind of policy
questions that we're having,because the industry as a whole
is starting to bifurcate intokind of categories and form
(45:16):
factors to try to kind ofentrench their category into
state law in various places, assome states have started to feel
less comfortable withintoxicating hemp, be it certain
doses or certain form factors.
We've got the beverages lobbyingas beverages and trying to
(45:37):
ensure that the beverages arethere, while the inhalable
people are fighting really hard.
But I think having a morechallenging time and I think it
just touches on this complexityto operating in this space and
and I what I'm curious about isis really about how you think
about engaging as a growingcompany in this complex policy
(46:01):
stuff and I and you have thisapproach that's very uh, real
and uh and curious, uh and alsolike ah, whatever, I'm staying
out of this, I just know it'slegal, whatevs kind of thing.
But at some point you'vestarted to build something
really real and you want toprotect it and stick up for it,
(46:24):
and I'm wondering if you aregetting involved personally and
thinking about using the voicethat you've created to bring all
of these new consumers into thespace and teach them about THC,
if you're thinking aboutbringing that to the steps of of
state legislatures andadvocating for the plant and for
(46:44):
access.
Kimmie Gamez (46:46):
So in my entire professional career I've never
liked to take talk aboutpolitics, really take a stance
publicly one way or another,just because, like for like, I
had restaurants and bars for 17years.
Our customers are on both sides, so I had to stay very vanilla,
even though I know, as abusiness leader, I should use my
voice.
It's hard because I don't.
(47:07):
I love all of our customers andI don't really necessarily care
Like.
I do care, but I want to takecare of them and they will have
their own reasons to sit on oneside or the other.
As far as the smokeable, um, I'mnot a smoker and when we've,
you know, we have this thingcalled customer personas we say,
like who is our like number onecustomer?
(47:29):
Like, obviously it's not likethe one person, but like who
does she represent?
Like the person who's buyingthe most from us, the person
who's a repeat customer?
Or like she's a 40 year oldprofessional who has at least
one child, who still works?
You know her professional job,she's not smoking, and so for me
that's an easy.
(47:49):
Why would I bring in smokablesand potentially not want her to
represent?
Like, because you have to thinkpeople wear Lululemon or Nike
or whatever the brand is becauseit's a representation of
themselves, and so if ourcustomer already doesn't smoke,
I don't want them to maybe notwant to purchase from soberish
because we don't like representher.
Well.
(48:09):
But for now again, I don't liketo talk politics that smoke
bowls work for a lot of people.
You know the high milligramdosage and all the things work
for a lot of people.
That's not who I'm fighting for, which is my customer yeah,
yeah, this industry sucks youinto to politics.
Ben Larson (48:26):
I've waffled on this a lot because all my life I was
like I never want to be closeto politics.
And then I got into thecannabis industry and like, boom
, boom, there I am, andsometimes I take a step back.
I'm like it would be so mucheasier just to run my company on
whatever game board is in frontof me, and I would probably
save 30% of my time.
Kimmie Gamez (48:46):
Nice though I found that when you do have a
voice, it's you know, a reasonyou know, and that you put a
story behind it and that youhave empathy for those on the
other side, because typicallythere is something tragic, a
reason why families or peopledon't want, you know, a certain
product in the market and we asan industry should empathize
(49:09):
with them and not just take theother side.
But we need to look at them asmothers, as fathers, as you know
just another human and say I'mso sorry, like what can we do?
Can we not sit on oppositesides of the table?
Can we literally sit on thesame side of the table and try
to create something that worksfor everyone, so that that
(49:31):
doesn't happen again?
And I don't know.
So it's hard, like not to getinvolved.
But when you?
But I just would hope that thebrands, when they do that, they
take that approach and I'mtrying to take that approach.
For example, I sent out an emailto a hundred thousand plus
emails today saying hey, if youare so inclined, there's this
thing happening at the federalgovernment.
(49:52):
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Here's the form if you want toquickly take literally one
minute of your time to fill out.
If you do not, that is fine.
I just want you to know what'shappening in our space and I
would really appreciate it andplease let me know if you have
any questions.
And so again, just like I'm notasking you to, I'm leaving this
with you if you'd like to do it, so anyway.
(50:12):
Anyway, again on a tangentthere, but hopefully that all
made sense.
Ben Larson (50:16):
No, absolutely.
I love that.
I just saw a photo on LinkedInyesterday I think it showed,
like Paramount Stein andJonathan Miller and a couple
others, like sitting on the sameside of the table on the hill,
and it's like that's good,that's progress right On the
hill, and it's like that's good,that's progress Right.
That's, you know, building aunified voice when we are
(50:37):
typically used to seeing thesefolks sitting Polar opposite at
the table.
But, yeah, I love that message,kimmy, it is political.
Whether you're engaged or not,you are a public figure In a
politicized space, and so I'mcurious, not having expected to
be here, how does that feel?
(50:59):
You know, wearing that andrepresenting that, and what are
you excited about?
The future of what that meansfor you?
Kimmie Gamez (51:07):
I just left Atlanta for the Hemp Beverage
Expo and people would come up tome like, oh, I follow you.
Or I'll honestly run intorandom strangers when I'm out
and about and they're like, oh,I follow what you're doing, this
is so great and so one.
I'm honored to be in thiscategory.
I'm also it's almost like pinchme that this category actually
(51:32):
respects me Because I knownothing about it.
I'm such an outsider and I feellike any other category, I
think, like automotive.
If there was this six foot tallwhite chick from Michigan that's
like I'm going to start a newcar company but I know nothing
about.
I don't even know how to makean engine or what an engine
looks like.
I would be eaten alive.
This category has been openarms.
(51:53):
Look, I'm on this podcast withyou all.
It's so amazing and so I'mhonored to be here.
I hope I do it justice.
That's why I try not to say toomuch, because I feel like I
just don't know enough to have astance on some things, except
that I know what it's doing forour business, for our customers
and again, just trying toempathize with those that could
(52:14):
potentially be against it.
Ben Larson (52:17):
I think it's that humility that makes people
willing to open their arms toyou.
So the industry is lucky tohave you.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:25):
Yeah, I'm so glad to have your voice out
there.
I've been in cannabis for along time and when legalization
first started unfolding, peopletalked a lot about bringing the
yoga moms and the soccer momsand the new consumers into the
space and they really just nevermaterialized in the dispensary
channel and I think you havereally become an ambassador for
(52:49):
that customer and for women inthe space.
So it's really fun to see whatyou're doing and, with that, as
much as we would love to keephearing about it, it is time for
our last call.
So, kim, what is your finalmessage for our listeners today?
Advice, call to action, closingthought.
(53:10):
Mic is yours.
Kimmie Gamez (53:12):
Yeah, if you're a brand and you're struggling on
where to start marketing, wise,just throw up a camera, start
talking about your journey.
Be a real person.
People will flock to you.
People will want to be a partof your journey, with you, and
so, with that, those that arelistening.
I share every piece of myjourney, whether it's I'm
married to a Mexican man, here'smy farm with my goat named
(53:32):
Turkey and my five kids here inMichigan.
Me struggling on the strugglebus with the business because
something didn't go right, orit's me getting a little stony
baloney with my mom, you know,over some giggle grass infused
cocktails on a Saturdayafternoon.
I post it all on social media,whether it's Instagram, tiktok
or Facebook.
You can typically find me atKimmy Gomez and on LinkedIn.
(53:54):
I would love to connect withany brands or business
professionals there.
I'm trying to stay more activeand share all of my tips and
tricks for things that I'velearned in the industry, because
I'm an open book.
If I can do it, everyone elseshould be able to do it, and so
I just love to share the wisdom.
So follow me there or connectwith me on LinkedIn.
Ben Larson (54:09):
There you have it, folks.
Kimmy Gomez, soberish, thankyou so much.
Thank you, go enjoy some gigglegrass and get Stoney Bologna
and check in.
Let us know how it's going.
Will do All right, we'll talkto you soon.
Kimmie Gamez (54:23):
Thank you.
AnnaRae Grabstein (54:28):
All right, anna Rae Well here's to a little
bit more giggle grass andgetting Stoney Bologna.
She's so fun.
I want to hang out with her.
Like I get why she is a magnetfor women and new consumers.
And and uh, even though shesaid that she doesn't get
involved in politics, then shedropped that.
She sent out an email to ahundred thousand customers.
Um so, uh, I will you know.
(54:48):
I'll call that out, as I thinkthat counts.
And uh, when we have platforms,it is important to use them,
and I think it sounds likeKimmy's doing that.
Ben Larson (54:57):
Absolutely, absolutely Well.
What do you think, folks?
Thank you so much for watching.
Thank you for engaging, liking,subscribing, doing all the
things the new consumer exists.
Don't forget about them.
Thank you to our teams atVirtosa and Wolfmeyer, of course
, our fabulous producer, ericRosetti.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please stop.
(55:18):
Drop a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify, anywhere you listen.
As always, folks stay curious,stay informed and keep your
spirits high Until next time.
That's the show.
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