August 13, 2025 • 50 mins
Rama Mayo, co-founder of Hall of Flowers, shares how he transformed his experience in music, art, and fashion into creating one of cannabis's most respected trade shows focused on high-quality brand and buyer connections.
• Building successful cannabis brands requires clear mission, vision, and values as foundation
• The tension between "money people" and "cannabis operators" creates challenges that require mutual respect to overcome
• Cannabis companies need both business expertise and plant knowledge to succeed long-term
• Mentorship from industry leaders like Shep Gordon provided the confidence to become a cannabis thought leader
• Hall of Flowers expanded from California to Toronto and now to New York, adapting to each market's unique challenges
• Cannabis events need careful curation to maintain value—Hall of Flowers deliberately limits exhibitors to ensure quality
• Daily operations in cannabis are like "The Walking Dead"—new unexpected challenges arise constantly
• The East Coast cannabis market resembles California's market from 6-7 years ago
• For cannabis events to create real value, they must focus on facilitating meaningful business connections
• Perseverance is the essential quality for anyone looking to succeed in the cannabis industry
--
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rama Mayo (00:00):
Rama, if the right people don't step up and take
control of cannabis, the wrongpeople will.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:13):
Hey everybody , welcome to episode 101 of High
Spirits.
I'm Anna Rae Grabstein and it'sTuesday, august 12th 2025.
I'm here solo today.
Ben is out in the world doingsomething, but we will see him
next week again soon and me I'mhaving a really good week.
You know it's been hot inCalifornia and the weather's
(00:35):
turned.
It's foggy.
I've had some really good timeto get into my work this week
and exercise.
I'm feeling good and we've gotan incredible guest today.
Rama Mayo from Hall of Flowerswill be welcoming in just a
minute after my news update.
On the news front, it's kind ofhard to miss the news that
(00:57):
everyone, whether you're onLinkedIn or X, is talking about
that President Trump says hisadministration is looking at
reclassification of marijuana,but for many of us, this doesn't
really feel like new news We'vegot.
The past administration wasalso looking at reclassifying
and rescheduling specifically.
That effort seemed to die withthis new administration, but now
(01:20):
, with some advocacy and a lotof pushing, people are talking
about it again.
Trump says quote it's a verycomplicated subject, noting that
he's heard positive thingsabout medical use and bad things
about other aspects.
So I will say that I'm notholding my breath.
There's a lot of people makingguesses about how long it will
take and how soon we'll hear anannouncement, and I think I'm
(01:45):
just not going to put my chipson anything at this moment.
If you guys have ideas, you letme know, but I don't have any
inside information to share.
What I will say is that it waspretty wild to watch the
cannabis stocks yesterday.
Just because of Trumpindicating that he'll think
about reclassification, we sawmassive stock surges Monday.
A bunch of even Canadianoperators that don't operate in
(02:07):
the US, like Tilray, which hassome beer and a few things in
the US, but almost none Kronos,aurora they saw double digit
gains.
Msos, which is the ETF that hasa lot of US operators in it,
gained over 25% and there weresome individual US MSOs that I
was watching yesterday that sawraises of over 40%.
(02:29):
So it was very wild to see howlittle bits of news can really
send the stock market into acrazy direction.
With retail investors andcannabis.
I hope nobody is losing theirasses with these investments, so
we'll see what happens on thatfront.
Generally, after theseannouncements, we've seen stocks
(02:49):
go up fast and then come backdown just as fast.
We'll give it a week, see ifthey hold One more kind of fun
piece of news to share before wego further.
No, virgin Atlantic is notserving a THC infused beverage
on its flight, but some of usmight have gotten tricked by a
stunt last week.
(03:09):
There is a THC beverage companycalled Drippy.
They sell drinks with 10milligrams of THC and 10
milligrams of CBN, and theylaunched a video and put out a
fake, forged screenshot of aletter that said it was from
Virgin Atlantic CEO, as well asan email that claimed to come
(03:30):
from another executive in theairline, announcing a
partnership that Virgin Atlanticwould soon be selling these
drinks next to all of the otheralcohol that they would be
selling on their menu for guestson their flights.
And while the CEO of Drippyquickly explained that it was a
stunt and he said that there'sno official partnership and we
(03:52):
staged the whole thing to make apoint.
But he also pointed out he saysit's wild that you can slam
three vodkas on a flight but notsip a federally legal drink
designed to help you relax andfeel more comfortable.
I don't know.
I think that this stunt waspretty good.
A bunch of people fell for it,including BevNet, which is a
(04:13):
pretty legit trade publicationcovering the beverage space.
So I had a good laugh.
Some people don't like jokeslike this quite as much, so,
anyway, who's got the next goodstunt coming up in cannabis
right?
All right, everybody, let'sjump into our guest intro.
He's much more interesting thanme.
Today's guest has spent severaldecades turning counterculture
(04:36):
into true culture launching ahigh school indie label that
signed At the Drive-In and JimmyEat World, producing global
campaigns for Beats by Dre andPepsi and ultimately, more
recently in 2018, co-foundingHall of Flowers, the cannabis
trade show celebrated for highROI matchmaking, immersive
art-driven activations andoverall collisions of people who
(04:59):
are making things happen,launching brands in the space he
shaped music, art, fashion,branding and now one of the most
respected events in cannabis,rama Mayo is here.
Rama, welcome to High Spirits.
Rama Mayo (05:11):
Cool, thanks for having me.
It's mayo technically, but it'sokay, don't worry.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:15):
Grab the mayo .
Rama Mayo (05:17):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
Thanks for having me.
That was a nice intro.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:20):
It's like makes me seem like I did a lot,
maybe a lot cooler than I am,maybe yeah, you know, I got to
meet you last week for the firsttime and and I hung up after
our intro call and thought, god,this guy's got some rick rubin
energy.
Um, and I don't know if it'sjust the beard for those, uh,
for those that aren't watching,but I think that the music
(05:42):
industry and, and the and thesouthern california too, got me
thinking about Rick Rubin alittle bit.
Rama Mayo (05:49):
Sure, yeah, rick, actually I was working with a
band called the InternationalNoise Conspiracy and it was an
offshoot of a band calledRefused.
That was a really big band thatkind of broke up early but then
became super iconic and thesinger and guitar player started
another band calledInternational Noise Conspiracy
and I put out their first recordin America and Rick Rubin then
(06:14):
signed them from my label to hislabel, american Recordings, at
the time and I was at SIRStudios in Hollywood, which is
like the, where the bands rentto like go if they're going on
tour, they rent these likeproduction things or they go
record albums there or, like youknow, like whatever demo music,
really famous SIR and uh, and Iwas there with a man called say
(06:37):
anything that I was alsoworking on a record with, and I
saw Dennis from internationalnoise conspiracy and refused in
the hallway and he's like Rama,we're in with Rick, you want to
come meet him?
And I was just like holy shit,icon, of course, same, you know,
we both started our labels inthe dorm room kind of thing,
right.
So got to meet Rick and he wasas cool as everyone thinks that
he is and he's always been, andhe had like a lounge chair that
(07:00):
they brought in like his ownChase Lounge.
That was just like Rick'slounge.
He had him at all his places, Iguess you know, and he was just
sitting there like stroking hisbeard listening to the music,
like lying down with his glasseson.
It was fucking awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:13):
That's so cool, I'll take it.
I'll take it Amazing.
Well, let's just jump in.
Let's start with Hall ofFlowers.
What was the spark that madeyou think we need an event like
this in cannabis, and how'd youbring it to life?
Rama Mayo (07:23):
Yeah, so I did the punk rock record label and then
after that I actually started alittle fashion trade show and
you know, and fashion tradeshows have existed for a hundred
years, you know.
So my shows were like theselittle satellite shows around
the bigger shows and I ended upmeeting some other people that
had much bigger and better tradeshows in the fashion world
along the way and kind ofworking with them on different
(07:44):
projects along the way.
And when I got into cannabis,the clients essentially the
clients that I had at the agencyat Green Street needed a show,
you needed places to go to, sowe'd go to these different shows
and nothing was like on thelevel of the B2B side, you know,
consumer side.
There was awesome stuff, youknow, but the B2B side just
(08:04):
really was kind of lacking.
So I just took what I learnedin the fashion trade show world
and went to my some friends inthe fashion trade show world and
really begged them for years tostart Hall of Flowers and
finally they did and the timingwas right with it.
You know, maybe we would havelaunched it too early
potentially if I had done itright when I was trying to do it
(08:25):
.
You know it took a couple ofyears to even get it to come to
fruition.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:29):
When was the first one?
Rama Mayo (08:31):
The first one was 2017, maybe or something Okay,
something like that.
I think COVID blurred my brainwith the dates.
Everything's a blur now still,but it really took my finding my
partner, danny like really runsthe trade show, the CEO company
, and he was the CFO at otherbig fashion trade shows for
years.
You know it really took him tocome in and execute.
(08:53):
You know, like, I'm an idea guyand I know that execution is
everything.
You know it took me a long timeto like, realize that and even
longer to admit it.
You know, but now I realizethat you know, to admit it.
You know, uh, but now I realizethat you know, ideas are are,
you know, maybe not worth thatas much as I thought they used
to be.
You know it's all aboutexecution.
AnnaRae Grabstein (09:12):
That's an interesting point.
Well, so for for those peoplewho maybe have been under a rock
in the cannabis space, um, howtell us a little bit about Hall
of Flowers, where, where it'sbeen and where it's going?
Rama Mayo (09:26):
Sure, yeah, I mean really it's there to solve a
problem, right, and that problem, you know, years ago was
wholesale, you know, sales tostores from brands.
So that's where it was.
That was the focus.
That's really still.
The focus now is just reallyconnecting buyers and brands
together, you know.
(09:50):
But we did it in a cool way andwe incorporated the culture and
a lot of the thought leaders aspart of it and it just became
something much bigger than thanthat, you know.
It became more of thisdestination family reunion, you
know, kind of you know, butthat's really what it does, you
know, but it's it's become likethe, the meetup that you know,
the semiannual meetup for theindustry, essentially in
California.
And then we expanded intoToronto a few years ago and the
(10:12):
whole kind of point of that wasreally to set up being used to
people seeing it on the EastCoast in general.
We kind of knew that our hunchwas that we would eventually
maybe move it from Toronto downto New York, which is what we
just did, and that first showwill happen this October.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:29):
Nice, and when you are thinking about your
background in music and art,I'm wondering how that is
shaping the experience is forpeople who are coming to Hall of
Flowers.
Rama Mayo (10:41):
Yeah, I'd say it.
I mean a ton, even if theydon't know it.
You know, like we had actuallya lighter right here, like this
lighter, this little logo here,hall of Flowers.
You know this is something wedid with an artist named Alvaro
Ilzarbe.
That's a Peruvian artist thatyou know did all the decor of
one of the shows.
We worked with an artist namedCody Hudson and did another, you
(11:01):
know, full kind of takeover ofthe branding and everything for
the show.
So I owned an art gallery foryears.
I'm like an art collector.
I make art not good stuffnecessarily, not something that
people are buying, but I lovemaking art and so art has a huge
anchor as part of the show, I'dsay.
(11:22):
And then I have a background inmusic.
So you know we naturally wantedto work with different
musicians and stuff like thisalong the way, and a lot of the
musicians also have cannabisprojects, so they want to be
involved in Hall of Flowers.
you know also some of the otheryou know, actors and celebrities
and comedians that have kind ofcannabis interest all really
(11:45):
end up coming to Hall of Flowersand really want to work with us
on ideas or projects or stufflike that.
So we're really fortunate toget a lot of inbound interest,
you know.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:54):
Cool?
Well you have.
You've got this really greatbackground in brands and you've
worked with some of the biggestand really most iconic cultural
brands out there.
Like I think about Beats by DreI'm wearing the headphones
right now Pepsi.
Rama Mayo (12:09):
There, you go.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:10):
Yeah, I'd love to just talk about this
concept of cannabis brandingright now and what you think
about it.
What is happening in the marketwith cannabis brands?
Rama Mayo (12:22):
I think there's a lot of products right, not
necessarily a lot of brands, youknow, and I think that those
products will develop and thesecompanies will develop into
brands.
I think about it tons of ways.
There's so many differentpieces of it, you know.
So I think there's people thatare doing branding super well
and they have not great products.
(12:43):
I think vice versa.
Bezos says something like youknow, your brand is what people
say about you when you're not inthe room or whatever.
You know.
That's like his quote andthat's kind of what I think
about when you ask the question.
And then I just start thinkingabout, like you know, like a
rifling through of all thesedifferent companies and brands
that are in my head.
But yeah, maybe what aboutcannabis branding?
(13:05):
Let's get more specific.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:07):
Yeah, let's dive in a lot deeper.
So I think cannabis isinteresting in that we are
restricted into thestate-by-state supply chain
model and that means that thereare restrictions on scale in
some ways and that the supplyhas to come from the market.
But now we're starting to seethat there's brands that are
traversing these state lines butstill having to solve unique
(13:30):
supply chain problems in eachmarket, and so it becomes
challenging to really envision abrand scaling, because you
can't always make the sameproducts in every market and the
consistency for the consumerisn't always the same.
So, yeah, I guess they'redifferent businesses, but trying
(13:50):
, but trying to show up for theconsumer in the same way.
Just wondering if you thinkthat anybody really has a brand
in cannabis yet and and if ifanybody's really got that
consumer loyalty that that trulyingrained cultural brands will
have yeah.
Rama Mayo (14:09):
So first part are there brands?
Short answer is yes, I'll comeback to it.
It's long question.
Others, brand loyalty?
I don't think so.
I think brand loyalty is passeddown generation to generation,
really, or?
Or you know, it's like my momdrank this alcohol or my uncle
smoked this cigarette orwhatever the heck.
You know what I mean.
So I just think that therehasn't really been that and I
(14:31):
think right now the way to provethat would be like if you went
into a dispensary and you askedfor a product from a name brand
or a marquee brand and theydidn't have it, are you going to
leave and go get a differentproduct?
Probably not.
You're probably going to belike okay, well, what's close?
You know, and maybe you'll tryit and maybe you'll go back to
(14:52):
the other one, whatever, but youknow you're not going to like
walk out of the bar because theydon't have a certain beer you
like.
Or you know you're not going towalk out of the dispensary,
necessarily, you know.
So that's my thought on brandloyalty.
As far as the brand, yeah, Imean it is very hard because
every single state it'sessentially a different business
for these companies.
You know, whatever, you knowwe'll leave names out of it, but
(15:20):
there's brands that are in alot of states and it's a whole
different business, literally.
You know, different company,different everything, different
regulations, all that kind ofstuff, everything, different
regulations, all that kind ofstuff.
But you know, I remember when Iwould go to like on tour with
the bands and we'd be in Utahand we'd go to like get a beer
and the beer was like half thealcohol volume but it still
looked just like the Corona,like you couldn't really tell
the difference, you know, oranything like that.
Even the taste was the same.
So I think eventually it willget there, but for now, I'm sure
(15:42):
that that brands have likedifferent top selling SKUs in
every market they're in.
You know, I'll bet you it'slike a different whole,
different product.
Even even I know brands thathave completely different
product offerings because youknow it's California wants one
thing and you know Florida wantssomething different, you know.
So there's a lot of people thatare also doing it right.
(16:03):
But, like you mentioned the, the, the, the split of the
manufacturing, you know theproblem there.
The real problem is themarketing, the social.
How do you build a brand whenyour Instagram gets taken out
every fucking day.
You know what I mean.
So even LinkedIn, I knowthey're being a lot nicer, but
they're still not perfect, and Xor Twitter seems to let you do
(16:27):
whatever you want, but that's apretty toxic environment in
general.
I don't know if people reallywant to play in there too much,
and I think that's the problemis that you can't really stay in
front of the consumer's mindwithout being able to make
content and build brand stuff.
Also, brands are so differentthese days.
Look at brands are now builtbasically like the complete
opposite way they used to bebuilt right Before.
(16:48):
They were built like from theretail level up.
Now you're seeing like a poppyor whatever, building from like
the social world into retailsecondary.
You know that's never reallyhappened before.
You know maybe somecircumstances, but it's a
different world altogether.
Final part I'll say is retailis around the board in every
industry, really fucking hardright.
(17:10):
So like, if you're a retailer,you're nervous right now and
regardless of whatever you'reselling, you know.
So I'd say that doesn't help.
Brands exist because you knowif the retailer is kind of
nervous and the brand doesn'treally know what they're doing,
too much the company they'retrying to figure it out.
Still, it's like, not like thebest place to.
You know how do you launch a20-year company if the business
(17:33):
is all working on it?
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:34):
I've only been around for six months, or
whatever you know sure, how doyou think about cannabis brands
and the right product mix thatdoesn't dilute the brand promise
?
We see we see cannabiscompanies take different
approaches.
Some will create a portfolio ofbrands because they have
manufacturing capacity to doeverything under the sun, and so
(17:57):
they'll have a separate ediblebrand from a flower brand.
And then we also see cannabisbrands that will take one
flagship brand and launch everydifferent product category under
that brand.
Do you think that there's oneright way or one wrong way to do
it?
Rama Mayo (18:10):
No, I think you could do both for sure.
Obviously, like Procter Gamblemodel is the first thing you
mentioned, right, where it'slike they own all the candy or
Kraft is one of my favorites,actually, to be honest.
Like, I'm sorry, mars, Iapologize, you know these are
all the same terrible, ruthlesscompanies, you know.
But, like you know, mars ownslike every piece of sugar on the
(18:31):
shelf or whatever, right youknow.
So I'd say, like that's, likethat's the big goal, right, 30
years from now, it makes senseto have this big, wide portfolio
.
You know, 10, 20 years from nowkind of thing, of course.
But I do think and I don't knowwho's proven it yet, and I'm
sure some people have, and let'sput some stuff in the comments
if anyone's listening but like Ido believe my partner, gary
vaynerchuk, uses the wordpermission a lot like if you do
(18:53):
something really good, you have,if you make an amazing hat, you
have the permission to make ajacket or whatever, right you
know.
So I do think that there'sbrands that could have product
offering across the board, andI've argued with with ex-clients
in the past where I was likethey want to launch a, a vape
roll, vape thing from theirpre-roll and I'm like you should
(19:14):
call it the same thing.
And they're like no, no, wedon't, we make pre-rolls.
And it's like but you reallymake cannabis products right.
You're like what I don't, youknow what I mean like I think
you're too stuck in, like theway the big companies did it.
So yeah, because again, back totrust and back to the brand
loyalty and stuff.
You know, do you want tointroduce?
You want to introduce a newcompany, another new company?
(19:36):
yeah like it's a lot so muchwork it's so much work for sure.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:41):
you've talked about there being a tension
between the money people and thecannabis people and that that
dynamic has been shiftingrecently, in the more recent
history of cannabis industry.
What do you mean by that?
What are, who are the moneypeople and who are the cannabis
people?
Rama Mayo (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lack of respect
between the money people and thecannabis operators.
That's really what I think itis.
You know, and I've been in somany meetings where you know the
money people say, well, howhard can it be?
My cousin grows tomatoes, youknow.
And then the money people, orthen the cannabis people, are
like fuck those, you know suits,whatever, like I have, I'll go
(20:19):
dig up a barrel of money orwhatever from my backyard, you
know, kind of thing.
So I think that's how it's been, at least the past 15 years
that I've been involved in theindustry, you know.
But I do believe that that'schanging.
I believe like the next wave iscoming.
You know you mentioned, on yournews thing, the potential
rescheduling from fromWashington DC.
I think you're going to see thenext wave of of hopefully the
(20:42):
respect is there on both sidesand there's experts on both
sides, you know, because, likerunning a business is so hard,
like actually running thebusiness, you know, like, like
that's what I when I talk aboutdanny or my partner, hall
flowers, like you know he runs,like the business side of the
business is what I say, which ispeople like what do you mean?
That's like everything and I'mlike, yeah, it's fucking, yes,
it is everything, you know Imean, because the is is a
(21:06):
different expertise.
You know what I mean, Honestly.
But a lot of the cultivators,the, the, the operators, you
know they don't have like themost amazing business skills
necessarily, you know.
So they don't.
That's how I was when I startedthe punk label.
You could get loans and, youknow, sell equity and you know,
raise money.
I, you know you had no idea howto do that stuff, so I just
(21:28):
like knew how to make records,you know.
So I kind of feel like that'swhat's going on with the, that's
what's been going on withcannabis, and I'm hoping that
finally people will findpartners before it's too late,
because you know they'reeveryone's in the money, People
are not investing as much andthe brands are hurting, you know
.
So that that's.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:48):
That's what I think is different is.
I think that there's there's alot less money and the people
that have stuck around are theones that are resolutely
committed to the plant, likethey're holding on to the soul
of cannabis and and the money,the money.
People realize how much theyneed those people.
Otherwise all the money is gonebecause somebody's got to take
care of the plants and and takecare of that manufacturing.
(22:09):
And it's, it's, it's not simple,and when they've, they've
thought that it was simple andthey tried to do it themselves.
Those people are not hereanymore.
Rama Mayo (22:18):
Yeah, I think there's also like the idea of, like I'm
a lifer in the space, I I paytwo bucks an hour or whatever.
You know what I mean.
Like this isn't like a moneything, right, you know, and but
I believe that we'll be in agreat position.
You know, in years and yearsand years from now.
You know.
Again back to my music world.
That's how it was.
I made no money for 10 years.
You know, I think that there's abig difference between those
(22:41):
people that are in the industryversus, like, the people that
leave the music industry or theenergy drink industry or fashion
industry to get into cannabisand they want the salary and
they think it's going to be likeeasy and all this stuff.
And then when they get in, theyrealize, holy shit, like this
is I.
I brought somebody in from fromalcohol into cannabis.
He lasted maybe three monthsbefore he was just like he quit,
(23:04):
he gave up.
He was like this is so hard.
Oh my god, like I had no ideahow crazy this was, because you
know it's just every day I knowyou wanted short sound bites
every day in cannabis is likethe walking dead, okay, and what
I mean by that is you kick openthe door, bang and oh my god,
there's new zombies in newplaces every day.
(23:25):
So every day you have to putout some new fire or there's a
new type of zombie.
So that you the plans doesn'tmatter, doesn't matter how good
your plan is, because it'schanging every single day.
You know, so, you need so.
If you don't have a plan thatyou can stick to every day which
a lot of people don't and thenyou don't have like a true
long-term vision, a true likenorth star, like that you're
following, die hard forever,then how, how easy is it to get
(23:48):
lost?
You don't know where you'regoing and you don't know what
you can do now.
It's a very hard approach.
So I think people like you or I, or people that are in the
space, like lifers, that arededicated, we're like oh,
whatever, it's a 10-year plan,20-year plan, versus like what
am I going to do this week?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:06):
Yeah, there's so much in what you just said
that resonates with me and andspeaks to the type of way that I
move through cannabis and and II think that it's it's two part
.
It has to do with the way thatwe show up for ourselves as
leaders and also the way that wecreate vision and intention in
companies and how that'scommunicated to the people who
(24:27):
work in those companies so thatthen they can understand what
piece they play in creating thatvision.
And so I think of it as, likethere's foundational stuff
that's just part of building acompany, building a brand.
If you don't have that visionand that mission and that
clarity, then everything thatyou're going to build on top of
it is going to get blown over inthe hurricane 100%, yeah.
(24:51):
And then, on the leadershipside, it's about connecting with
that, and so you've talkedabout bringing people in.
You've talked about people thathave mentored and been partners
to you.
I would love to dive into thata little bit deeper.
Learn first of all, about theway that you see mentorship and
leadership in cannabis, and ifyou have any stories of of being
mentored yourself or mentoringothers.
(25:13):
I think it would be reallygreat to hear sure, of course,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rama Mayo (25:16):
And then, just before that, you know you, you, I
certainly say it this way whatyou just said, it, you know
mission, vision values, andthat's what a brand needs, right
.
So back to the very firstquestion.
If you took all 200, 300, 400of the best cannabis you know,
putting numbers on the boardbrands out there right now and
you ask them their mission andvision values, what's the
percentage that actually know it?
(25:37):
Probably five or 10% of thosecompanies actually have that
figured out.
Honestly.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So that, to me, that's thething, and I talk about it all
the time, literally.
I don't even work with clientsanymore because they don't want
to take the time to build thatfoundation in order to build the
hundred story building on topof it.
They don't even care.
We'll get back to mission,vision values.
Can you work on the products?
(25:58):
And it's like no, what do youknow?
Can you give us a logo and it'slike no, I can't without
knowing what you stand for.
What are you talking about?
You know what I mean.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:07):
So, anyway, but people, don't want to put
the work.
What's wild is that you saythat as a marketer and as a
person creating brands and Iwork on corporate and commercial
strategy and I say the samething.
It's like how can I help yougrow your business, how can I
help you improve your bottomline, if we don't understand
what your foundational missionand purpose and vision is?
(26:28):
And so, yeah, it's socritically important and there's
no way that the humans insidethe company can have success
without that foundationalinfrastructure.
I can't agree.
Rama Mayo (26:38):
What are you getting out of bed every day to do?
You don't know.
And everyone's on the same,everyone on different pages and
anyway, okay, so it's on thethroat there.
Now you're talking aboutmentors.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:47):
Mentors.
Rama Mayo (26:49):
So, anyway, okay, so it's on the throat there.
Now you're talking aboutmentors, mentor.
So mentors is a huge thing forme, huge, huge, triple, huge.
Because, um, I, I grew upsingle mom.
You know, I've never met my dad.
My mentors were like myneighbors and then soon after,
like the people I startedworking with, the band members
and the stuff they were like alittle older than me that I'd
put out their records or youknow, and back then, four years
(27:10):
was a lot, you know what I mean.
From high school to collegeit's like, oh, my god, you're an
adult, you know.
So, uh, so I've had a lot ofamazing mentors and, um, you
know, I'd say like the biggestmentors in cannabis for me are
probably shep gordon, who we hadspeak at hall flowers one year
sh Supermensch, incredibledocumentary film about Shep.
(27:32):
He was kind of like the mosticonic music manager of all time
one of them and then ended upmanaging and creating the idea
of the Celebrity Chef and thenwent on to create a ton of other
amazing products and brands andall this stuff.
I was staying with him at hishouse on whole in on maui and in
hawaii and he was, uh, he got acheck when I was there for like
(27:54):
uh, the bam spices likeemeralds, you know bam, and you
throw the spice in the thinglike he.
He's like been getting paid forthat for 25 years.
You know what I mean.
So he also made movies.
The first movie he ever madewon best picture, won academy
award for best picture, kiss ofthe spider woman.
Went on to make they live,which was like an amazing movie
for me growing up and all thesecrazy movies.
(28:15):
So chef was an amazing mentorfull open book, gave you tons of
advice, anything you asked for,he'd help with connections,
whatever.
But the main thing that he toldme that really went to my brain
was Rama.
If the right people don't stepup and take control of cannabis,
(28:35):
the wrong people will.
And so I was like fuck.
So it gave me the confidence toget in and really be like a
thought leader in the space andtry to like be up there.
Amongst the other, you knowcorporates or whatever you want
to call them, you know.
So Shep was a huge mentor.
Another big mentor is Craig Fox.
I mentioned his name to youearlier.
(28:55):
You know, craig, I call him myYoda, I call him my Yoda and he,
you know, was from Live Nationand then iHeartRadio and then
Dick Clark Productions and thenGrateful Dead and you know all
this stuff here.
So he's been the same way youknow.
But I think like, if you're likea really successful in business
, like you know, retired forever, your family will never have to
(29:17):
work again, type of person, andyou meet someone like me that
just like, loves work and lovesbusiness and is inquisitive and
wants to learn and know, andjust like you know, I want to be
their grasshopper style.
You know I want to be their,their intern or whatever you
know.
So I think I think people likethat you know what I mean I
think I think business peoplelike the interest and they want
(29:38):
to share and stuff like that.
So I'd say those are some of my, like my two biggest mentors in
cannabis.
Oh then Gary V I mean fuckingJesus, I mean Gary's my partner,
but he, oh my God, it's like 10out of 10, human, 11 out of 10,
if you could do it Like I don'tgive anyone a perfect score
except for Gary Gary's been sounbelievable to us, such an
(30:01):
unbelievable mentor, you know,and and since we're in business
together, it's not just likebasic ideas, it's like you know
he gives me stuff and I executeand report back.
You know what I mean.
So it's it's partnership, butit really is mentorship, you
know.
The final one that pops in mybrain I'd say is Darren
Romanelli.
He's who I started Green Streetwith, originally Dr Romanelli,
(30:24):
and he's an incredible designer,artist, unbelievable guy,
hilarious, super cool, and hewas the one that was like I had
a couple of clients in SanFrancisco when I lived there
very cold I know, you live inthe Bay Area, I lived there for
three cold years and I had alittle agency in San Francisco
with my friend, john LaCroix andI wanted to get back to LA and
(30:48):
I talked to Darren and he hadhis little agency going and
working with big clients.
That's where I get to work with.
Beats by Dre and Pepsi and allthese companies is through
Darren's company and you knowthat's where, also where we
started Green Street together,you know.
So we did the G-Pen brand atGreen Street Sorry, at Street
Virus, which is where Darren'scompany and we were doing Beats,
(31:08):
disney, dreamworks, g-pen, andthen that's what kind of spun
off and had us start a cannabisagency.
You know, is that?
So those would be like mybiggest mentors, I'd say.
AnnaRae Grabstein (31:19):
Well then, flip it around.
How about mentoring the nextgeneration?
Rama Mayo (31:23):
Yeah, Even to be called a mentor.
It makes me like blush, youknow what I mean.
So I would love to help people.
I don't know if I'm a mentorwith some of these people
because I don't know if I'm surepeople may look at me in that
sense because I help tons ofpeople just just for the love or
just because you know.
But I don't feel like I'm likeI don't have like a weekly or
ongoing check-in with people.
(31:44):
That you know what I mean.
Like I'm not like a scheduledmentor.
You know if you will, but Italked about my punk label back
in the day and I was talking tothe owner of this company called
Iodine Records, who I actuallystarted working with.
He started reissuing my oldrecords from 30 years ago, which
(32:04):
started re-reissuing my oldrecords from 30 years ago just
crazy.
And.
But when I spoke to him uh, youknow, recently I hadn't talked
to him in 20 years he was likerama, like I came to your record
label, you sat me down, yougave me all the answers to the
test, you gave me everyone'sphone numbers.
You told me what to avoid.
You told me how to do it.
He's like you taught me how tolike get a record label started
and now he has like a very, verysuccessful business.
Now he's doing a deal with meand putting out my music.
(32:25):
You know what I mean.
So that's like I'd say like hewould consider me a mentor back
then because I really helped him.
Today I don't think I can evensay who would consider me a
mentor.
It's so weird, it's like tooweird of a brag I don't know me
a mentor.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:40):
it's so weird , it's like too weird of a brag
yeah yeah, I get that for sure.
Rama Mayo (32:41):
No, but I but anyone listening like I love I get
emails, not all the time, butevery week I'll get an email.
That's like it's set.
You say that you want to talkto people.
I'm just reaching out with thisweird thing and I'm like
fucking let's go.
You know what I mean.
I got an email the other dayfrom a guy that wanted to do
like dungeons and dragons andcannabis and cannabis and I was
like absolutely yes, like own it, be the person that that is
(33:05):
like the expert in this.
Go, go, go.
Like why wait, you know?
But again, like I think anyadvice I would give to people
like that is probably like a mixfrom what Gary would give me or
any other.
You know, it's like nothing newfrom my brain, necessarily.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:18):
Well, I think we all lean on our mentors a
lot when we're growing andexpanding our businesses, if
we're lucky enough to have them.
And you've taken this vision ofHall of Flowers you created in
California, you took it toToronto and now you're launching
in New York and I'm curiousabout how hard that's been, how
(33:40):
easy it's been.
Kind of what like takingsomething to New York is its own
animal right.
Rama Mayo (33:45):
It's not the same.
Yeah, yes, correct, I would saynot easy.
So you know very hard, yeah,very hard.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:53):
Tell us, from your perspective, what are some
of the differences.
What is the difference betweenthe East coast and West coast
cannabis that you are rubbing upagainst right now?
Rama Mayo (34:01):
You know, I don't think there's the difference
isn't really cannabis, it's justbusiness, right, like we have a
union facility in New York,because they're all union
facilities basically you knowwhere in Santa Rosa and Ventura
they're not.
So that's a big difference forour exhibitors.
You can't carry, you got tocarry shit in, you can't draw
whatever right.
You know it's like unionfacilities, a lot more fees,
(34:26):
essentially right.
You know we're dealing with thecity, new york, which sees a
million events a year.
So our economic impact in santarosa and ventura is like maybe
like five million bucks orsomething like that.
You know that we bring to thecity, which is a lot of money.
New york's like what, who givesa shit about that?
Like we do that every second.
You know what I mean.
So they don't, they're not likeoh my god, yes, please come in.
(34:46):
You know, when we did the showsout in the palm springs area,
they were like the mayor wouldcome to the event and walk
around take his photo witheverybody because they were so
excited.
You know we were there kind ofthing, right, you know.
So I'd say the just thedifferences.
Now the good news is my partner, danny, mostly did shows in new
york.
You know he, he did shows wherewe're doing our show that 12
(35:09):
years ago or whatever it was 15years ago or whatever it was.
You know so he's been doingtrade shows, fashion trade, big
fashion trade shows in new yorkfor for 15 years.
You know.
So we have that.
That's like really our, our,the only way we'd be able to do
it.
I personally would never gointo New York myself and try to
navigate because it's just toodifficult.
But since he has the friendsand past, history and
(35:31):
infrastructure in the past, youknow it's some of the same
people he's like talking to thesame people he used to talk to
and they still do the same job,you know so, um, or the the boss
now, or whatever.
So, um, yeah, so I'd say that.
But you know it's, it's uh, it'slike a time machine, right,
like it's it's six years ago inCalifornia, seven years ago in
(35:51):
California, right.
So it's like it's everyone'ssuper excited.
You know everyone is like theenergy is just unbelievable.
Everyone's down to try stuffout and experiment because you
know they don't, they haven'tdone it yet, they're they're
going through it for the firsttime.
Most of the brands and theretailers, you know it's the
first time they've been doingthis.
So.
(36:12):
So that's the good news.
The bad news is it's also thefirst time they've been doing
this Right.
So they might not know, likethis is how it works or this is,
you know, like, if you think ofa retailer in California that's
been doing it for whatever,seven, eight, ten years more,
some of them, you know they justare going to just know more
(36:33):
Right Versus, you know, the onesin New York.
So so I'd say that's thedifference.
But the excitement, enthusiasmis unbelievable.
And when we call retailers upand invite them to Hall of
Flowers, they're like fucking,yes, let's go.
A lot of them have heard aboutit, some of them have attended,
but it's built for them.
You know what I mean.
So that's really the focus.
As long as we can get themthere, then you know everything
else kind of happens.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:53):
Do you have any special surprises that
you're planning for New Yorkthat you can share with our
audience?
Rama Mayo (37:02):
Well, they wouldn't be a surprise if I did it.
But you know, um, these aren'tnecessarily maybe surprises.
The last one potentially is.
But, uh, you know, but wehaven't really announced this
yet.
But we are doing, um, thisthing called bud tender blitz,
which on day two will invite outyou know, a thousand ish bud
tenders.
I don't know how many will endup coming, but you know we'll
invite out all of them basicallyto kind of come on day two.
Educational stuff.
Some brands are going to workon some exclusive kind of
(37:25):
special offerings for them.
We're trying it in Santa Rosafor the first time this year we
have Access which is like ourlike executive lounge kind of
space.
So HPI Canna, which is like oneof the biggest operators in new
york, they have like a spaceand access versus a booth, you
know, and it's like more private.
(37:46):
They don't have to build awhole big installation but they
can still have their meetingsand stuff.
So access is new.
It's a kind of a brain child ofmy partner, danny.
Um, he his vision, is it?
It kind of becomes like oursoho house kind of feel.
Eventually we're far away fromthat that, but that's like the
idea.
And then we have some afterparties.
We're working on One of themwould be really awesome.
(38:10):
We're working on nailing it.
I'm hoping to get it kind ofdone this week, which we'll
announce soon if we do it.
But we have parties all aroundthe city.
We're doing a few differentevents for like the different
vibes people want to kind ofcreate to keep the trade show
kind of the businessconversations going.
AnnaRae Grabstein (38:25):
Cool and you guys have done a very
intentional job of the way thatyou've curated attendance at
these events.
Yeah, I remember at the verybeginning like you wouldn't let
anybody but brands exhibit atall, like now.
I do see some digital platformsand POS companies, but it's
still it's not open to anybodyto be able to to exhibit, and
(38:49):
then it's also not open toanybody to be able to attend.
And, uh, I'd love to to hearmore about those intentional
choices and why you made them.
Rama Mayo (39:02):
Yeah, I mean every other show in, not just cannabis
, but in every industry.
Basically, you know most of thetrade shows.
If your check clears, you getin the show.
That's.
That's the application process,right, you know.
So my partner, nanny, comes fromthe fashion world and it was
very, very, very curated.
I actually even tried to attend.
(39:22):
They had two trade shows sideby side, same parent co, but
different consumers.
One was more streetwear, onewas more high-end.
I was working with thestreetwear one and there's a
door to connecting the twothings and I try to walk through
to Danny's show, the high-endone.
They're like, no, you can'tcome in.
And I'm like, no, you can'tcome in.
(39:42):
And I'm like, no, do you knowwho I am?
I'm like you know, and Icouldn't get into Danny's show
and I was so upset and then Iwas like what the fuck?
And then I talked to him yearslater about it, before we
started Hall of Flowers.
But why, why?
And he's like you fuck up thenumbers, I don't.
Why would I want you in theshow so you can go bug people
about getting business from themor asking them for money?
AnnaRae Grabstein (40:04):
He's like no, no, I want only credited buyers
.
Rama Mayo (40:07):
You know, in these shows Because that's the whole
point is the brands have towrite orders and make money.
They need to make, you know, itneeds to be worth it to them.
So, from going into it, dannywas ridiculously strict with the
guests.
Even was ridiculously strictwith the guests.
Even myself I'm not evenexaggerating even starting the
show In the beginning, I stillhad to give Danny my guest list
(40:28):
and he still wanted to look atevery single person was on there
and we'd look at their LinkedInand justify, like why they
should get to come to the show.
It was wild.
So, but you know him beingsuper strict, especially on the
exhibitor side, is probably whywe're at where we're at.
You know we we've turned downhundreds, hundreds of companies,
(40:49):
hundreds of companies to do theshow.
You know and cause.
One thing is a big thing alsois we don't want them to do the
show and it's not worth it forthem.
We don't want them to buy abooth and not want to come back.
So we know if someone's notgoing to connect or do well, we
won't even sell them.
You know we have a, a, a brandcalled Xylem.
That's like a um, uh, uh,automation company, brilliant,
(41:10):
brilliant company, brilliantguys, and, um, the one team that
works there, and uh, andthey've been trying to do the
show for years and Danny keptsaying no, no, no, no, no, cause
he just didn't understand whythey would want to be in the
show.
And then this guy tracked Dannydown, I believe, at the airport
, and like harassed Danny into,like making him allowed you know
(41:32):
him to be in the show, and itwas like a whole big deal.
You know what I mean.
Any other company would be likeyou want to pay 20 grand or
whatever it is.
You know more, of course, who'sturning that person down, you
know, um.
But then when you go to some ofthese other shows and you see,
like the snowblower booth orwhatever, or like the tile floor
tile guy, or like the, you knowthese weird spaces, you know
(41:54):
just like what's the?
You know it's like everyone'sjust walking right past them.
Like you know it's, it doesn'treally give much value, except
for the bottom line of therevenue of the show, which my
partner, danny, again brilliantman, he'd rather we have barely
only a few boosts left for SantaRosa and he was like, well, I'd
rather get the right brands inthan sell them to people at
(42:17):
higher prices.
You know what I mean.
So it's all like just set up,set up, set up for the next one,
the next one, the next one.
Again.
He's done it for so long thathe's thinking multiple shows
ahead.
AnnaRae Grabstein (42:28):
Yeah Well, and thinking about the
difference between what you'redoing in California versus what
you're launching in New York, itoccurs to me that there's some
kind of mature market versusemerging market dynamics, and
that you've had an opportunityto, to witness, or to even to
make certain insights intowhat's happening in the industry
, based on who's signing up toto to show at the shows, and I'd
(42:54):
love for you to to share someof that, of what you've noticed
over the years, of how theCalifornia industry has changed
and who's showing up at theshows compared to who's showing
up in the shows in New York.
Rama Mayo (43:03):
Okay, that's a good question.
So, so, new York, we are likewaiting list like crazy still
for, like the non-cannabisbrands.
Right, we want, we really wantcannabis, licensed cannabis
brands, that's it Now.
Of course, if Puffco or one ofthe other companies that we've
worked with forever thateveryone loves, that we love, of
course, wants to do it, ofcourse that's fine.
(43:25):
But even, like you said, likethe ATM companies or the
packaging companies or all thatstuff, most of those people are
on waiting lists and we justwon't take them in, probably.
And New York, it's the firsttime, so it's hard to gauge,
right, we don't really knowwhat's going to happen.
And New York also has a limitedfootprint.
We can't expand.
(43:46):
You know, santa Rosa, we have abillion square feet, so we can
kind of compress and expand andcontract as the shows.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:52):
In New York?
Will you include, like NewJersey brands or Massachusetts
brand, like other Northeastbrands or or buyers from places
that are, because it's so dense,there?
Rama Mayo (44:02):
yeah, that the the goal is that, of course and I
thought we'd have a lot more ofthat but with the new york law,
the way that that we are readingit, it's um, those brands could
come but they couldn't have orshare product whatsoever.
So if that brand wants to comeand show hardware or something
(44:22):
or packaging, of course, butwithout them being able to, even
if they bought, brought, boughtproduct and brought it over and
sampled it, they could stillget in trouble because you know,
we don't have a license in newyork yet they don't have them
for licenses or whatever.
Um, and that's other, I'd saythe other big thing, the biggest
thing is probably thecompliance right.
Hallflower Santa Rosa andVentura is a compliant event.
(44:42):
Licensed is so difficult tolike, do the every part of it,
the planning and the permits andthe fire department and all the
different stuff that needs tohappen to go into it, you know.
And then we're alwaysexperimenting.
Even this show in Santa Rosa,we're changing it up again.
We're changing the entrance.
We're changing the entrance,we're changing the format.
We added a, we took the layoutof the big building, we flipped
(45:06):
it like, almost like reversed ita little bit inside, uh, which
created like a lot more space inthe middle.
We are expanding the outdoorarea, we're pulling back from
some of the other structuresthat that we did in the past,
because you know we want to puteveryone kind of tighter.
But it's just like an ongoing.
It will never stop evolving.
You know the plat, we call it aplatform, I call flowers
(45:27):
platform.
It would always kind of evolveas the industry does.
In 10 years it could be likehere's how we do it, but now
every time we're like what's new, what's you know, and we're
we're so in touch with theexhibitors and the buyers.
We like pull them surveys andall that kind of stuff that you
know, we, you know everythingthey don't like.
We try to fix the next show andthings like that.
(45:48):
So you know we just haven'tbeen able to do it for New York
yet.
You know we don't know what tofix yet.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:53):
Yeah, so there are a lot of cannabis
events.
You've touched on them a littlebit and some of the others kind
of how do you think about that?
Does it feel like like it's ahighly competitive space?
Does it feel like there's roomfor everybody?
Uh, what, what does it takereally to have a winning event
in the space?
Rama Mayo (46:09):
yeah, before I say that, I would say that and this
is coming from me that thereneeds to be more events.
All right, and I think that'sfor Like, imagine, if you think,
if we're music or something youknow, and there was one
festival a year only, you knowwhat I mean or one concert, you
know what I mean.
Like music or football.
(46:29):
Think of your sports.
There was only the Super Bowland no, nothing in between.
Yeah, it'd be big but therewouldn't be, like you know, it
wouldn't be this big worldwidephenomenon.
You know what I mean.
So I think the consumers need alot more to go to Every weekend
.
There needs to be somethinghappening for all the different
types of consumers to startgoing out, right.
So to me, I would say that'show I really look at it Like we
(46:51):
need more.
And then, as far as thecompetition and stuff, I mean I
think we're friends witheverybody.
You know, like we're for themost part, maybe not the b2b
shows as much, but like you knowgeorge gage with mj unpacked,
we're friends.
You know he gives us ticketsand takes care of us.
We take care of him.
You know, we know the bakedguys that do parties around us
(47:11):
respect my region does somestuff.
We know them very well.
Um, who else do we like?
The knee can guy was very nice.
We've reached out, talked acouple times.
I'm blanking on his name,fucking dr k kush.
Doc is a dear friend of ours,dear, dear, dear friend of ours.
You know, um, I don't know it'solympics, but that looks, that
event looks incredible and thereneeds to be more of those, you
(47:33):
know.
So.
Yeah, I don't know.
I, I'm my name's rama.
My mom's a crazy hippie lady.
You know it's like my partnerdanny would probably think
everyone's our competitor.
You know what I mean.
But you know.
But the state fair justhappened.
We love them.
What embark and James up thereare doing, you know um, outside
lands with grasslands, we love.
You know what outside lands andthen bark and super fly are
(47:54):
doing, you know.
So I want, I want the industryto be gigantic.
I had an old client that had asurf company and still has a
surf company and a brilliant,brilliant guy, and he came to me
and originally said I want tolaunch a surf company but I
(48:15):
don't want to take away fromwhat's there.
I want to raise the pond somuch that the little amount we
take away is it's fine becausewe've raised it.
You know what I mean.
So that was like a wow, it's aninteresting approach, you know.
So that's how I feel with withcannabis Like we need everyone
in on this.
You know what I mean.
We need we need all thegrandmas, we need all the
corporate companies in on this,we need Taco Bells and all these
(48:36):
people coming in to the spacefor it to really to be like as
big as we all want it to be.
You know, awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (48:43):
Well, why don't you just put it out there
for the audience of when theupcoming Hall of Flowers is and
where the location is, so peopleknow how to find you?
Rama Mayo (48:51):
Yeah, so Hall of Flowers is in Santa Rosa
September 10th and 11th and B2Bonly.
And then we're in New York CityOctober.
Did I say September 10th and11thB only, and then we're in
New York City October.
Did I say September 10th and11th?
Yeah, let me start over.
Okay, I did Give her yeahanyway.
And then we're in October inNew York City on October 8th and
9th.
Yeah, b2b as well.
So Pier 36 in New York City andSonoma County Fairgrounds in
(49:17):
Santa Rosa.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:18):
Awesome and this has been an incredible
conversation.
It is time yeah, it's so fun tolearn about your story and
everything you're doing.
It is time for our last callRama.
So what is?
Your final message for ourlisteners.
It can be advice, call toaction.
Closing thought.
Rama Mayo (49:34):
Are the listeners all like industry people-ish, b2b
industry people, right?
Yeah, mostly, as we talkedabout before.
Yeah, perseverance, that's mymessage.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:44):
Perseverance I love that.
I agree, yeah, yeah, stayresolute folks.
Well, rama, thank you so much.
Um, it's been a pleasure, Ihope, to hang out and see you
and share a joint at an upcominghall of flowers.
Rama Mayo (49:58):
So absolutely, absolutely.
AnnaRae Grabstein (50:01):
Let's, let's do it.
Rama Mayo (50:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
AnnaRae Grabstein (50:03):
Well, thanks for joining us today.
Have a great one.
Well, what'd you think folks?
Rama's?
Pretty cool, right?
I appreciate everybody that isengaging with this podcast
listening live.
Um, thank you so much to ourteams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer
and to our producer, ericRossetti.
If you enjoyed this podcast,please drop a review on Apple,
(50:26):
spotify, youtube or wherever youlisten.
It helps listeners like youfind our content.
So, thank you.
Please like, subscribe, shareand, as always, folks stay
curious, stay informed and, mostimportantly, keep your spirits
high.
That's our show.
Rama, if the right people don't step up and take
control of cannabis, the wrongpeople will.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:13):
Hey everybody , welcome to episode 101 of High
Spirits.
I'm Anna Rae Grabstein and it'sTuesday, august 12th 2025.
I'm here solo today.
Ben is out in the world doingsomething, but we will see him
next week again soon and me I'mhaving a really good week.
You know it's been hot inCalifornia and the weather's
(00:35):
turned.
It's foggy.
I've had some really good timeto get into my work this week
and exercise.
I'm feeling good and we've gotan incredible guest today.
Rama Mayo from Hall of Flowerswill be welcoming in just a
minute after my news update.
On the news front, it's kind ofhard to miss the news that
(00:57):
everyone, whether you're onLinkedIn or X, is talking about
that President Trump says hisadministration is looking at
reclassification of marijuana,but for many of us, this doesn't
really feel like new news We'vegot.
The past administration wasalso looking at reclassifying
and rescheduling specifically.
That effort seemed to die withthis new administration, but now
(01:20):
, with some advocacy and a lotof pushing, people are talking
about it again.
Trump says quote it's a verycomplicated subject, noting that
he's heard positive thingsabout medical use and bad things
about other aspects.
So I will say that I'm notholding my breath.
There's a lot of people makingguesses about how long it will
take and how soon we'll hear anannouncement, and I think I'm
(01:45):
just not going to put my chipson anything at this moment.
If you guys have ideas, you letme know, but I don't have any
inside information to share.
What I will say is that it waspretty wild to watch the
cannabis stocks yesterday.
Just because of Trumpindicating that he'll think
about reclassification, we sawmassive stock surges Monday.
A bunch of even Canadianoperators that don't operate in
(02:07):
the US, like Tilray, which hassome beer and a few things in
the US, but almost none Kronos,aurora they saw double digit
gains.
Msos, which is the ETF that hasa lot of US operators in it,
gained over 25% and there weresome individual US MSOs that I
was watching yesterday that sawraises of over 40%.
(02:29):
So it was very wild to see howlittle bits of news can really
send the stock market into acrazy direction.
With retail investors andcannabis.
I hope nobody is losing theirasses with these investments, so
we'll see what happens on thatfront.
Generally, after theseannouncements, we've seen stocks
(02:49):
go up fast and then come backdown just as fast.
We'll give it a week, see ifthey hold One more kind of fun
piece of news to share before wego further.
No, virgin Atlantic is notserving a THC infused beverage
on its flight, but some of usmight have gotten tricked by a
stunt last week.
(03:09):
There is a THC beverage companycalled Drippy.
They sell drinks with 10milligrams of THC and 10
milligrams of CBN, and theylaunched a video and put out a
fake, forged screenshot of aletter that said it was from
Virgin Atlantic CEO, as well asan email that claimed to come
(03:30):
from another executive in theairline, announcing a
partnership that Virgin Atlanticwould soon be selling these
drinks next to all of the otheralcohol that they would be
selling on their menu for guestson their flights.
And while the CEO of Drippyquickly explained that it was a
stunt and he said that there'sno official partnership and we
(03:52):
staged the whole thing to make apoint.
But he also pointed out he saysit's wild that you can slam
three vodkas on a flight but notsip a federally legal drink
designed to help you relax andfeel more comfortable.
I don't know.
I think that this stunt waspretty good.
A bunch of people fell for it,including BevNet, which is a
(04:13):
pretty legit trade publicationcovering the beverage space.
So I had a good laugh.
Some people don't like jokeslike this quite as much, so,
anyway, who's got the next goodstunt coming up in cannabis
right?
All right, everybody, let'sjump into our guest intro.
He's much more interesting thanme.
Today's guest has spent severaldecades turning counterculture
(04:36):
into true culture launching ahigh school indie label that
signed At the Drive-In and JimmyEat World, producing global
campaigns for Beats by Dre andPepsi and ultimately, more
recently in 2018, co-foundingHall of Flowers, the cannabis
trade show celebrated for highROI matchmaking, immersive
art-driven activations andoverall collisions of people who
(04:59):
are making things happen,launching brands in the space he
shaped music, art, fashion,branding and now one of the most
respected events in cannabis,rama Mayo is here.
Rama, welcome to High Spirits.
Rama Mayo (05:11):
Cool, thanks for having me.
It's mayo technically, but it'sokay, don't worry.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:15):
Grab the mayo .
Rama Mayo (05:17):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.
Thanks for having me.
That was a nice intro.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:20):
It's like makes me seem like I did a lot,
maybe a lot cooler than I am,maybe yeah, you know, I got to
meet you last week for the firsttime and and I hung up after
our intro call and thought, god,this guy's got some rick rubin
energy.
Um, and I don't know if it'sjust the beard for those, uh,
for those that aren't watching,but I think that the music
(05:42):
industry and, and the and thesouthern california too, got me
thinking about Rick Rubin alittle bit.
Rama Mayo (05:49):
Sure, yeah, rick, actually I was working with a
band called the InternationalNoise Conspiracy and it was an
offshoot of a band calledRefused.
That was a really big band thatkind of broke up early but then
became super iconic and thesinger and guitar player started
another band calledInternational Noise Conspiracy
and I put out their first recordin America and Rick Rubin then
(06:14):
signed them from my label to hislabel, american Recordings, at
the time and I was at SIRStudios in Hollywood, which is
like the, where the bands rentto like go if they're going on
tour, they rent these likeproduction things or they go
record albums there or, like youknow, like whatever demo music,
really famous SIR and uh, and Iwas there with a man called say
(06:37):
anything that I was alsoworking on a record with, and I
saw Dennis from internationalnoise conspiracy and refused in
the hallway and he's like Rama,we're in with Rick, you want to
come meet him?
And I was just like holy shit,icon, of course, same, you know,
we both started our labels inthe dorm room kind of thing,
right.
So got to meet Rick and he wasas cool as everyone thinks that
he is and he's always been, andhe had like a lounge chair that
(07:00):
they brought in like his ownChase Lounge.
That was just like Rick'slounge.
He had him at all his places, Iguess you know, and he was just
sitting there like stroking hisbeard listening to the music,
like lying down with his glasseson.
It was fucking awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:13):
That's so cool, I'll take it.
I'll take it Amazing.
Well, let's just jump in.
Let's start with Hall ofFlowers.
What was the spark that madeyou think we need an event like
this in cannabis, and how'd youbring it to life?
Rama Mayo (07:23):
Yeah, so I did the punk rock record label and then
after that I actually started alittle fashion trade show and
you know, and fashion tradeshows have existed for a hundred
years, you know.
So my shows were like theselittle satellite shows around
the bigger shows and I ended upmeeting some other people that
had much bigger and better tradeshows in the fashion world
along the way and kind ofworking with them on different
(07:44):
projects along the way.
And when I got into cannabis,the clients essentially the
clients that I had at the agencyat Green Street needed a show,
you needed places to go to, sowe'd go to these different shows
and nothing was like on thelevel of the B2B side, you know,
consumer side.
There was awesome stuff, youknow, but the B2B side just
(08:04):
really was kind of lacking.
So I just took what I learnedin the fashion trade show world
and went to my some friends inthe fashion trade show world and
really begged them for years tostart Hall of Flowers and
finally they did and the timingwas right with it.
You know, maybe we would havelaunched it too early
potentially if I had done itright when I was trying to do it
(08:25):
.
You know it took a couple ofyears to even get it to come to
fruition.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:29):
When was the first one?
Rama Mayo (08:31):
The first one was 2017, maybe or something Okay,
something like that.
I think COVID blurred my brainwith the dates.
Everything's a blur now still,but it really took my finding my
partner, danny like really runsthe trade show, the CEO company
, and he was the CFO at otherbig fashion trade shows for
years.
You know it really took him tocome in and execute.
(08:53):
You know, like, I'm an idea guyand I know that execution is
everything.
You know it took me a long timeto like, realize that and even
longer to admit it.
You know, but now I realizethat you know, to admit it.
You know, uh, but now I realizethat you know, ideas are are,
you know, maybe not worth thatas much as I thought they used
to be.
You know it's all aboutexecution.
AnnaRae Grabstein (09:12):
That's an interesting point.
Well, so for for those peoplewho maybe have been under a rock
in the cannabis space, um, howtell us a little bit about Hall
of Flowers, where, where it'sbeen and where it's going?
Rama Mayo (09:26):
Sure, yeah, I mean really it's there to solve a
problem, right, and that problem, you know, years ago was
wholesale, you know, sales tostores from brands.
So that's where it was.
That was the focus.
That's really still.
The focus now is just reallyconnecting buyers and brands
together, you know.
(09:50):
But we did it in a cool way andwe incorporated the culture and
a lot of the thought leaders aspart of it and it just became
something much bigger than thanthat, you know.
It became more of thisdestination family reunion, you
know, kind of you know, butthat's really what it does, you
know, but it's it's become likethe, the meetup that you know,
the semiannual meetup for theindustry, essentially in
California.
And then we expanded intoToronto a few years ago and the
(10:12):
whole kind of point of that wasreally to set up being used to
people seeing it on the EastCoast in general.
We kind of knew that our hunchwas that we would eventually
maybe move it from Toronto downto New York, which is what we
just did, and that first showwill happen this October.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:29):
Nice, and when you are thinking about your
background in music and art,I'm wondering how that is
shaping the experience is forpeople who are coming to Hall of
Flowers.
Rama Mayo (10:41):
Yeah, I'd say it.
I mean a ton, even if theydon't know it.
You know, like we had actuallya lighter right here, like this
lighter, this little logo here,hall of Flowers.
You know this is something wedid with an artist named Alvaro
Ilzarbe.
That's a Peruvian artist thatyou know did all the decor of
one of the shows.
We worked with an artist namedCody Hudson and did another, you
(11:01):
know, full kind of takeover ofthe branding and everything for
the show.
So I owned an art gallery foryears.
I'm like an art collector.
I make art not good stuffnecessarily, not something that
people are buying, but I lovemaking art and so art has a huge
anchor as part of the show, I'dsay.
(11:22):
And then I have a background inmusic.
So you know we naturally wantedto work with different
musicians and stuff like thisalong the way, and a lot of the
musicians also have cannabisprojects, so they want to be
involved in Hall of Flowers.
you know also some of the otheryou know, actors and celebrities
and comedians that have kind ofcannabis interest all really
(11:45):
end up coming to Hall of Flowersand really want to work with us
on ideas or projects or stufflike that.
So we're really fortunate toget a lot of inbound interest,
you know.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:54):
Cool?
Well you have.
You've got this really greatbackground in brands and you've
worked with some of the biggestand really most iconic cultural
brands out there.
Like I think about Beats by DreI'm wearing the headphones
right now Pepsi.
Rama Mayo (12:09):
There, you go.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:10):
Yeah, I'd love to just talk about this
concept of cannabis brandingright now and what you think
about it.
What is happening in the marketwith cannabis brands?
Rama Mayo (12:22):
I think there's a lot of products right, not
necessarily a lot of brands, youknow, and I think that those
products will develop and thesecompanies will develop into
brands.
I think about it tons of ways.
There's so many differentpieces of it, you know.
So I think there's people thatare doing branding super well
and they have not great products.
(12:43):
I think vice versa.
Bezos says something like youknow, your brand is what people
say about you when you're not inthe room or whatever.
You know.
That's like his quote andthat's kind of what I think
about when you ask the question.
And then I just start thinkingabout, like you know, like a
rifling through of all thesedifferent companies and brands
that are in my head.
But yeah, maybe what aboutcannabis branding?
(13:05):
Let's get more specific.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:07):
Yeah, let's dive in a lot deeper.
So I think cannabis isinteresting in that we are
restricted into thestate-by-state supply chain
model and that means that thereare restrictions on scale in
some ways and that the supplyhas to come from the market.
But now we're starting to seethat there's brands that are
traversing these state lines butstill having to solve unique
(13:30):
supply chain problems in eachmarket, and so it becomes
challenging to really envision abrand scaling, because you
can't always make the sameproducts in every market and the
consistency for the consumerisn't always the same.
So, yeah, I guess they'redifferent businesses, but trying
(13:50):
, but trying to show up for theconsumer in the same way.
Just wondering if you thinkthat anybody really has a brand
in cannabis yet and and if ifanybody's really got that
consumer loyalty that that trulyingrained cultural brands will
have yeah.
Rama Mayo (14:09):
So first part are there brands?
Short answer is yes, I'll comeback to it.
It's long question.
Others, brand loyalty?
I don't think so.
I think brand loyalty is passeddown generation to generation,
really, or?
Or you know, it's like my momdrank this alcohol or my uncle
smoked this cigarette orwhatever the heck.
You know what I mean.
So I just think that therehasn't really been that and I
(14:31):
think right now the way to provethat would be like if you went
into a dispensary and you askedfor a product from a name brand
or a marquee brand and theydidn't have it, are you going to
leave and go get a differentproduct?
Probably not.
You're probably going to belike okay, well, what's close?
You know, and maybe you'll tryit and maybe you'll go back to
(14:52):
the other one, whatever, but youknow you're not going to like
walk out of the bar because theydon't have a certain beer you
like.
Or you know you're not going towalk out of the dispensary,
necessarily, you know.
So that's my thought on brandloyalty.
As far as the brand, yeah, Imean it is very hard because
every single state it'sessentially a different business
for these companies.
You know, whatever, you knowwe'll leave names out of it, but
(15:20):
there's brands that are in alot of states and it's a whole
different business, literally.
You know, different company,different everything, different
regulations, all that kind ofstuff, everything, different
regulations, all that kind ofstuff.
But you know, I remember when Iwould go to like on tour with
the bands and we'd be in Utahand we'd go to like get a beer
and the beer was like half thealcohol volume but it still
looked just like the Corona,like you couldn't really tell
the difference, you know, oranything like that.
Even the taste was the same.
So I think eventually it willget there, but for now, I'm sure
(15:42):
that that brands have likedifferent top selling SKUs in
every market they're in.
You know, I'll bet you it'slike a different whole,
different product.
Even even I know brands thathave completely different
product offerings because youknow it's California wants one
thing and you know Florida wantssomething different, you know.
So there's a lot of people thatare also doing it right.
(16:03):
But, like you mentioned the, the, the, the split of the
manufacturing, you know theproblem there.
The real problem is themarketing, the social.
How do you build a brand whenyour Instagram gets taken out
every fucking day.
You know what I mean.
So even LinkedIn, I knowthey're being a lot nicer, but
they're still not perfect, and Xor Twitter seems to let you do
(16:27):
whatever you want, but that's apretty toxic environment in
general.
I don't know if people reallywant to play in there too much,
and I think that's the problemis that you can't really stay in
front of the consumer's mindwithout being able to make
content and build brand stuff.
Also, brands are so differentthese days.
Look at brands are now builtbasically like the complete
opposite way they used to bebuilt right Before.
(16:48):
They were built like from theretail level up.
Now you're seeing like a poppyor whatever, building from like
the social world into retailsecondary.
You know that's never reallyhappened before.
You know maybe somecircumstances, but it's a
different world altogether.
Final part I'll say is retailis around the board in every
industry, really fucking hardright.
(17:10):
So like, if you're a retailer,you're nervous right now and
regardless of whatever you'reselling, you know.
So I'd say that doesn't help.
Brands exist because you knowif the retailer is kind of
nervous and the brand doesn'treally know what they're doing,
too much the company they'retrying to figure it out.
Still, it's like, not like thebest place to.
You know how do you launch a20-year company if the business
(17:33):
is all working on it?
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:34):
I've only been around for six months, or
whatever you know sure, how doyou think about cannabis brands
and the right product mix thatdoesn't dilute the brand promise
?
We see we see cannabiscompanies take different
approaches.
Some will create a portfolio ofbrands because they have
manufacturing capacity to doeverything under the sun, and so
(17:57):
they'll have a separate ediblebrand from a flower brand.
And then we also see cannabisbrands that will take one
flagship brand and launch everydifferent product category under
that brand.
Do you think that there's oneright way or one wrong way to do
it?
Rama Mayo (18:10):
No, I think you could do both for sure.
Obviously, like Procter Gamblemodel is the first thing you
mentioned, right, where it'slike they own all the candy or
Kraft is one of my favorites,actually, to be honest.
Like, I'm sorry, mars, Iapologize, you know these are
all the same terrible, ruthlesscompanies, you know.
But, like you know, mars ownslike every piece of sugar on the
(18:31):
shelf or whatever, right youknow.
So I'd say, like that's, likethat's the big goal, right, 30
years from now, it makes senseto have this big, wide portfolio
.
You know, 10, 20 years from nowkind of thing, of course.
But I do think and I don't knowwho's proven it yet, and I'm
sure some people have, and let'sput some stuff in the comments
if anyone's listening but like Ido believe my partner, gary
vaynerchuk, uses the wordpermission a lot like if you do
(18:53):
something really good, you have,if you make an amazing hat, you
have the permission to make ajacket or whatever, right you
know.
So I do think that there'sbrands that could have product
offering across the board, andI've argued with with ex-clients
in the past where I was likethey want to launch a, a vape
roll, vape thing from theirpre-roll and I'm like you should
(19:14):
call it the same thing.
And they're like no, no, wedon't, we make pre-rolls.
And it's like but you reallymake cannabis products right.
You're like what I don't, youknow what I mean like I think
you're too stuck in, like theway the big companies did it.
So yeah, because again, back totrust and back to the brand
loyalty and stuff.
You know, do you want tointroduce?
You want to introduce a newcompany, another new company?
(19:36):
yeah like it's a lot so muchwork it's so much work for sure.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:41):
you've talked about there being a tension
between the money people and thecannabis people and that that
dynamic has been shiftingrecently, in the more recent
history of cannabis industry.
What do you mean by that?
What are, who are the moneypeople and who are the cannabis
people?
Rama Mayo (19:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lack of respect
between the money people and thecannabis operators.
That's really what I think itis.
You know, and I've been in somany meetings where you know the
money people say, well, howhard can it be?
My cousin grows tomatoes, youknow.
And then the money people, orthen the cannabis people, are
like fuck those, you know suits,whatever, like I have, I'll go
(20:19):
dig up a barrel of money orwhatever from my backyard, you
know, kind of thing.
So I think that's how it's been, at least the past 15 years
that I've been involved in theindustry, you know.
But I do believe that that'schanging.
I believe like the next wave iscoming.
You know you mentioned, on yournews thing, the potential
rescheduling from fromWashington DC.
I think you're going to see thenext wave of of hopefully the
(20:42):
respect is there on both sidesand there's experts on both
sides, you know, because, likerunning a business is so hard,
like actually running thebusiness, you know, like, like
that's what I when I talk aboutdanny or my partner, hall
flowers, like you know he runs,like the business side of the
business is what I say, which ispeople like what do you mean?
That's like everything and I'mlike, yeah, it's fucking, yes,
it is everything, you know Imean, because the is is a
(21:06):
different expertise.
You know what I mean, Honestly.
But a lot of the cultivators,the, the, the operators, you
know they don't have like themost amazing business skills
necessarily, you know.
So they don't.
That's how I was when I startedthe punk label.
You could get loans and, youknow, sell equity and you know,
raise money.
I, you know you had no idea howto do that stuff, so I just
(21:28):
like knew how to make records,you know.
So I kind of feel like that'swhat's going on with the, that's
what's been going on withcannabis, and I'm hoping that
finally people will findpartners before it's too late,
because you know they'reeveryone's in the money, People
are not investing as much andthe brands are hurting, you know
.
So that that's.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:48):
That's what I think is different is.
I think that there's there's alot less money and the people
that have stuck around are theones that are resolutely
committed to the plant, likethey're holding on to the soul
of cannabis and and the money,the money.
People realize how much theyneed those people.
Otherwise all the money is gonebecause somebody's got to take
care of the plants and and takecare of that manufacturing.
(22:09):
And it's, it's, it's not simple,and when they've, they've
thought that it was simple andthey tried to do it themselves.
Those people are not hereanymore.
Rama Mayo (22:18):
Yeah, I think there's also like the idea of, like I'm
a lifer in the space, I I paytwo bucks an hour or whatever.
You know what I mean.
Like this isn't like a moneything, right, you know, and but
I believe that we'll be in agreat position.
You know, in years and yearsand years from now.
You know.
Again back to my music world.
That's how it was.
I made no money for 10 years.
You know, I think that there's abig difference between those
(22:41):
people that are in the industryversus, like, the people that
leave the music industry or theenergy drink industry or fashion
industry to get into cannabisand they want the salary and
they think it's going to be likeeasy and all this stuff.
And then when they get in, theyrealize, holy shit, like this
is I.
I brought somebody in from fromalcohol into cannabis.
He lasted maybe three monthsbefore he was just like he quit,
(23:04):
he gave up.
He was like this is so hard.
Oh my god, like I had no ideahow crazy this was, because you
know it's just every day I knowyou wanted short sound bites
every day in cannabis is likethe walking dead, okay, and what
I mean by that is you kick openthe door, bang and oh my god,
there's new zombies in newplaces every day.
(23:25):
So every day you have to putout some new fire or there's a
new type of zombie.
So that you the plans doesn'tmatter, doesn't matter how good
your plan is, because it'schanging every single day.
You know, so, you need so.
If you don't have a plan thatyou can stick to every day which
a lot of people don't and thenyou don't have like a true
long-term vision, a true likenorth star, like that you're
following, die hard forever,then how, how easy is it to get
(23:48):
lost?
You don't know where you'regoing and you don't know what
you can do now.
It's a very hard approach.
So I think people like you or I, or people that are in the
space, like lifers, that arededicated, we're like oh,
whatever, it's a 10-year plan,20-year plan, versus like what
am I going to do this week?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:06):
Yeah, there's so much in what you just said
that resonates with me and andspeaks to the type of way that I
move through cannabis and and II think that it's it's two part
.
It has to do with the way thatwe show up for ourselves as
leaders and also the way that wecreate vision and intention in
companies and how that'scommunicated to the people who
(24:27):
work in those companies so thatthen they can understand what
piece they play in creating thatvision.
And so I think of it as, likethere's foundational stuff
that's just part of building acompany, building a brand.
If you don't have that visionand that mission and that
clarity, then everything thatyou're going to build on top of
it is going to get blown over inthe hurricane 100%, yeah.
(24:51):
And then, on the leadershipside, it's about connecting with
that, and so you've talkedabout bringing people in.
You've talked about people thathave mentored and been partners
to you.
I would love to dive into thata little bit deeper.
Learn first of all, about theway that you see mentorship and
leadership in cannabis, and ifyou have any stories of of being
mentored yourself or mentoringothers.
(25:13):
I think it would be reallygreat to hear sure, of course,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rama Mayo (25:16):
And then, just before that, you know you, you, I
certainly say it this way whatyou just said, it, you know
mission, vision values, andthat's what a brand needs, right
.
So back to the very firstquestion.
If you took all 200, 300, 400of the best cannabis you know,
putting numbers on the boardbrands out there right now and
you ask them their mission andvision values, what's the
percentage that actually know it?
(25:37):
Probably five or 10% of thosecompanies actually have that
figured out.
Honestly.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So that, to me, that's thething, and I talk about it all
the time, literally.
I don't even work with clientsanymore because they don't want
to take the time to build thatfoundation in order to build the
hundred story building on topof it.
They don't even care.
We'll get back to mission,vision values.
Can you work on the products?
(25:58):
And it's like no, what do youknow?
Can you give us a logo and it'slike no, I can't without
knowing what you stand for.
What are you talking about?
You know what I mean.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:07):
So, anyway, but people, don't want to put
the work.
What's wild is that you saythat as a marketer and as a
person creating brands and Iwork on corporate and commercial
strategy and I say the samething.
It's like how can I help yougrow your business, how can I
help you improve your bottomline, if we don't understand
what your foundational missionand purpose and vision is?
(26:28):
And so, yeah, it's socritically important and there's
no way that the humans insidethe company can have success
without that foundationalinfrastructure.
I can't agree.
Rama Mayo (26:38):
What are you getting out of bed every day to do?
You don't know.
And everyone's on the same,everyone on different pages and
anyway, okay, so it's on thethroat there.
Now you're talking aboutmentors.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:47):
Mentors.
Rama Mayo (26:49):
So, anyway, okay, so it's on the throat there.
Now you're talking aboutmentors, mentor.
So mentors is a huge thing forme, huge, huge, triple, huge.
Because, um, I, I grew upsingle mom.
You know, I've never met my dad.
My mentors were like myneighbors and then soon after,
like the people I startedworking with, the band members
and the stuff they were like alittle older than me that I'd
put out their records or youknow, and back then, four years
(27:10):
was a lot, you know what I mean.
From high school to collegeit's like, oh, my god, you're an
adult, you know.
So, uh, so I've had a lot ofamazing mentors and, um, you
know, I'd say like the biggestmentors in cannabis for me are
probably shep gordon, who we hadspeak at hall flowers one year
sh Supermensch, incredibledocumentary film about Shep.
(27:32):
He was kind of like the mosticonic music manager of all time
one of them and then ended upmanaging and creating the idea
of the Celebrity Chef and thenwent on to create a ton of other
amazing products and brands andall this stuff.
I was staying with him at hishouse on whole in on maui and in
hawaii and he was, uh, he got acheck when I was there for like
(27:54):
uh, the bam spices likeemeralds, you know bam, and you
throw the spice in the thinglike he.
He's like been getting paid forthat for 25 years.
You know what I mean.
So he also made movies.
The first movie he ever madewon best picture, won academy
award for best picture, kiss ofthe spider woman.
Went on to make they live,which was like an amazing movie
for me growing up and all thesecrazy movies.
(28:15):
So chef was an amazing mentorfull open book, gave you tons of
advice, anything you asked for,he'd help with connections,
whatever.
But the main thing that he toldme that really went to my brain
was Rama.
If the right people don't stepup and take control of cannabis,
(28:35):
the wrong people will.
And so I was like fuck.
So it gave me the confidence toget in and really be like a
thought leader in the space andtry to like be up there.
Amongst the other, you knowcorporates or whatever you want
to call them, you know.
So Shep was a huge mentor.
Another big mentor is Craig Fox.
I mentioned his name to youearlier.
(28:55):
You know, craig, I call him myYoda, I call him my Yoda and he,
you know, was from Live Nationand then iHeartRadio and then
Dick Clark Productions and thenGrateful Dead and you know all
this stuff here.
So he's been the same way youknow.
But I think like, if you're likea really successful in business
, like you know, retired forever, your family will never have to
(29:17):
work again, type of person, andyou meet someone like me that
just like, loves work and lovesbusiness and is inquisitive and
wants to learn and know, andjust like you know, I want to be
their grasshopper style.
You know I want to be their,their intern or whatever you
know.
So I think I think people likethat you know what I mean I
think I think business peoplelike the interest and they want
(29:38):
to share and stuff like that.
So I'd say those are some of my, like my two biggest mentors in
cannabis.
Oh then Gary V I mean fuckingJesus, I mean Gary's my partner,
but he, oh my God, it's like 10out of 10, human, 11 out of 10,
if you could do it Like I don'tgive anyone a perfect score
except for Gary Gary's been sounbelievable to us, such an
(30:01):
unbelievable mentor, you know,and and since we're in business
together, it's not just likebasic ideas, it's like you know
he gives me stuff and I executeand report back.
You know what I mean.
So it's it's partnership, butit really is mentorship, you
know.
The final one that pops in mybrain I'd say is Darren
Romanelli.
He's who I started Green Streetwith, originally Dr Romanelli,
(30:24):
and he's an incredible designer,artist, unbelievable guy,
hilarious, super cool, and hewas the one that was like I had
a couple of clients in SanFrancisco when I lived there
very cold I know, you live inthe Bay Area, I lived there for
three cold years and I had alittle agency in San Francisco
with my friend, john LaCroix andI wanted to get back to LA and
(30:48):
I talked to Darren and he hadhis little agency going and
working with big clients.
That's where I get to work with.
Beats by Dre and Pepsi and allthese companies is through
Darren's company and you knowthat's where, also where we
started Green Street together,you know.
So we did the G-Pen brand atGreen Street Sorry, at Street
Virus, which is where Darren'scompany and we were doing Beats,
(31:08):
disney, dreamworks, g-pen, andthen that's what kind of spun
off and had us start a cannabisagency.
You know, is that?
So those would be like mybiggest mentors, I'd say.
AnnaRae Grabstein (31:19):
Well then, flip it around.
How about mentoring the nextgeneration?
Rama Mayo (31:23):
Yeah, Even to be called a mentor.
It makes me like blush, youknow what I mean.
So I would love to help people.
I don't know if I'm a mentorwith some of these people
because I don't know if I'm surepeople may look at me in that
sense because I help tons ofpeople just just for the love or
just because you know.
But I don't feel like I'm likeI don't have like a weekly or
ongoing check-in with people.
(31:44):
That you know what I mean.
Like I'm not like a scheduledmentor.
You know if you will, but Italked about my punk label back
in the day and I was talking tothe owner of this company called
Iodine Records, who I actuallystarted working with.
He started reissuing my oldrecords from 30 years ago, which
(32:04):
started re-reissuing my oldrecords from 30 years ago just
crazy.
And.
But when I spoke to him uh, youknow, recently I hadn't talked
to him in 20 years he was likerama, like I came to your record
label, you sat me down, yougave me all the answers to the
test, you gave me everyone'sphone numbers.
You told me what to avoid.
You told me how to do it.
He's like you taught me how tolike get a record label started
and now he has like a very, verysuccessful business.
Now he's doing a deal with meand putting out my music.
(32:25):
You know what I mean.
So that's like I'd say like hewould consider me a mentor back
then because I really helped him.
Today I don't think I can evensay who would consider me a
mentor.
It's so weird, it's like tooweird of a brag I don't know me
a mentor.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:40):
it's so weird , it's like too weird of a brag
yeah yeah, I get that for sure.
Rama Mayo (32:41):
No, but I but anyone listening like I love I get
emails, not all the time, butevery week I'll get an email.
That's like it's set.
You say that you want to talkto people.
I'm just reaching out with thisweird thing and I'm like
fucking let's go.
You know what I mean.
I got an email the other dayfrom a guy that wanted to do
like dungeons and dragons andcannabis and cannabis and I was
like absolutely yes, like own it, be the person that that is
(33:05):
like the expert in this.
Go, go, go.
Like why wait, you know?
But again, like I think anyadvice I would give to people
like that is probably like a mixfrom what Gary would give me or
any other.
You know, it's like nothing newfrom my brain, necessarily.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:18):
Well, I think we all lean on our mentors a
lot when we're growing andexpanding our businesses, if
we're lucky enough to have them.
And you've taken this vision ofHall of Flowers you created in
California, you took it toToronto and now you're launching
in New York and I'm curiousabout how hard that's been, how
(33:40):
easy it's been.
Kind of what like takingsomething to New York is its own
animal right.
Rama Mayo (33:45):
It's not the same.
Yeah, yes, correct, I would saynot easy.
So you know very hard, yeah,very hard.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:53):
Tell us, from your perspective, what are some
of the differences.
What is the difference betweenthe East coast and West coast
cannabis that you are rubbing upagainst right now?
Rama Mayo (34:01):
You know, I don't think there's the difference
isn't really cannabis, it's justbusiness, right, like we have a
union facility in New York,because they're all union
facilities basically you knowwhere in Santa Rosa and Ventura
they're not.
So that's a big difference forour exhibitors.
You can't carry, you got tocarry shit in, you can't draw
whatever right.
You know it's like unionfacilities, a lot more fees,
(34:26):
essentially right.
You know we're dealing with thecity, new york, which sees a
million events a year.
So our economic impact in santarosa and ventura is like maybe
like five million bucks orsomething like that.
You know that we bring to thecity, which is a lot of money.
New york's like what, who givesa shit about that?
Like we do that every second.
You know what I mean.
So they don't, they're not likeoh my god, yes, please come in.
(34:46):
You know, when we did the showsout in the palm springs area,
they were like the mayor wouldcome to the event and walk
around take his photo witheverybody because they were so
excited.
You know we were there kind ofthing, right, you know.
So I'd say the just thedifferences.
Now the good news is my partner, danny, mostly did shows in new
york.
You know he, he did shows wherewe're doing our show that 12
(35:09):
years ago or whatever it was 15years ago or whatever it was.
You know so he's been doingtrade shows, fashion trade, big
fashion trade shows in new yorkfor for 15 years.
You know.
So we have that.
That's like really our, our,the only way we'd be able to do
it.
I personally would never gointo New York myself and try to
navigate because it's just toodifficult.
But since he has the friendsand past, history and
(35:31):
infrastructure in the past, youknow it's some of the same
people he's like talking to thesame people he used to talk to
and they still do the same job,you know so, um, or the the boss
now, or whatever.
So, um, yeah, so I'd say that.
But you know it's, it's uh, it'slike a time machine, right,
like it's it's six years ago inCalifornia, seven years ago in
(35:51):
California, right.
So it's like it's everyone'ssuper excited.
You know everyone is like theenergy is just unbelievable.
Everyone's down to try stuffout and experiment because you
know they don't, they haven'tdone it yet, they're they're
going through it for the firsttime.
Most of the brands and theretailers, you know it's the
first time they've been doingthis.
So.
(36:12):
So that's the good news.
The bad news is it's also thefirst time they've been doing
this Right.
So they might not know, likethis is how it works or this is,
you know, like, if you think ofa retailer in California that's
been doing it for whatever,seven, eight, ten years more,
some of them, you know they justare going to just know more
(36:33):
Right Versus, you know, the onesin New York.
So so I'd say that's thedifference.
But the excitement, enthusiasmis unbelievable.
And when we call retailers upand invite them to Hall of
Flowers, they're like fucking,yes, let's go.
A lot of them have heard aboutit, some of them have attended,
but it's built for them.
You know what I mean.
So that's really the focus.
As long as we can get themthere, then you know everything
else kind of happens.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:53):
Do you have any special surprises that
you're planning for New Yorkthat you can share with our
audience?
Rama Mayo (37:02):
Well, they wouldn't be a surprise if I did it.
But you know, um, these aren'tnecessarily maybe surprises.
The last one potentially is.
But, uh, you know, but wehaven't really announced this
yet.
But we are doing, um, thisthing called bud tender blitz,
which on day two will invite outyou know, a thousand ish bud
tenders.
I don't know how many will endup coming, but you know we'll
invite out all of them basicallyto kind of come on day two.
Educational stuff.
Some brands are going to workon some exclusive kind of
(37:25):
special offerings for them.
We're trying it in Santa Rosafor the first time this year we
have Access which is like ourlike executive lounge kind of
space.
So HPI Canna, which is like oneof the biggest operators in new
york, they have like a spaceand access versus a booth, you
know, and it's like more private.
(37:46):
They don't have to build awhole big installation but they
can still have their meetingsand stuff.
So access is new.
It's a kind of a brain child ofmy partner, danny.
Um, he his vision, is it?
It kind of becomes like oursoho house kind of feel.
Eventually we're far away fromthat that, but that's like the
idea.
And then we have some afterparties.
We're working on One of themwould be really awesome.
(38:10):
We're working on nailing it.
I'm hoping to get it kind ofdone this week, which we'll
announce soon if we do it.
But we have parties all aroundthe city.
We're doing a few differentevents for like the different
vibes people want to kind ofcreate to keep the trade show
kind of the businessconversations going.
AnnaRae Grabstein (38:25):
Cool and you guys have done a very
intentional job of the way thatyou've curated attendance at
these events.
Yeah, I remember at the verybeginning like you wouldn't let
anybody but brands exhibit atall, like now.
I do see some digital platformsand POS companies, but it's
still it's not open to anybodyto be able to to exhibit, and
(38:49):
then it's also not open toanybody to be able to attend.
And, uh, I'd love to to hearmore about those intentional
choices and why you made them.
Rama Mayo (39:02):
Yeah, I mean every other show in, not just cannabis
, but in every industry.
Basically, you know most of thetrade shows.
If your check clears, you getin the show.
That's.
That's the application process,right, you know.
So my partner, nanny, comes fromthe fashion world and it was
very, very, very curated.
I actually even tried to attend.
(39:22):
They had two trade shows sideby side, same parent co, but
different consumers.
One was more streetwear, onewas more high-end.
I was working with thestreetwear one and there's a
door to connecting the twothings and I try to walk through
to Danny's show, the high-endone.
They're like, no, you can'tcome in.
And I'm like, no, you can'tcome in.
(39:42):
And I'm like, no, do you knowwho I am?
I'm like you know, and Icouldn't get into Danny's show
and I was so upset and then Iwas like what the fuck?
And then I talked to him yearslater about it, before we
started Hall of Flowers.
But why, why?
And he's like you fuck up thenumbers, I don't.
Why would I want you in theshow so you can go bug people
about getting business from themor asking them for money?
AnnaRae Grabstein (40:04):
He's like no, no, I want only credited buyers
.
Rama Mayo (40:07):
You know, in these shows Because that's the whole
point is the brands have towrite orders and make money.
They need to make, you know, itneeds to be worth it to them.
So, from going into it, dannywas ridiculously strict with the
guests.
Even was ridiculously strictwith the guests.
Even myself I'm not evenexaggerating even starting the
show In the beginning, I stillhad to give Danny my guest list
(40:28):
and he still wanted to look atevery single person was on there
and we'd look at their LinkedInand justify, like why they
should get to come to the show.
It was wild.
So, but you know him beingsuper strict, especially on the
exhibitor side, is probably whywe're at where we're at.
You know we we've turned downhundreds, hundreds of companies,
(40:49):
hundreds of companies to do theshow.
You know and cause.
One thing is a big thing alsois we don't want them to do the
show and it's not worth it forthem.
We don't want them to buy abooth and not want to come back.
So we know if someone's notgoing to connect or do well, we
won't even sell them.
You know we have a, a, a brandcalled Xylem.
That's like a um, uh, uh,automation company, brilliant,
(41:10):
brilliant company, brilliantguys, and, um, the one team that
works there, and uh, andthey've been trying to do the
show for years and Danny keptsaying no, no, no, no, no, cause
he just didn't understand whythey would want to be in the
show.
And then this guy tracked Dannydown, I believe, at the airport
, and like harassed Danny into,like making him allowed you know
(41:32):
him to be in the show, and itwas like a whole big deal.
You know what I mean.
Any other company would be likeyou want to pay 20 grand or
whatever it is.
You know more, of course, who'sturning that person down, you
know, um.
But then when you go to some ofthese other shows and you see,
like the snowblower booth orwhatever, or like the tile floor
tile guy, or like the, you knowthese weird spaces, you know
(41:54):
just like what's the?
You know it's like everyone'sjust walking right past them.
Like you know it's, it doesn'treally give much value, except
for the bottom line of therevenue of the show, which my
partner, danny, again brilliantman, he'd rather we have barely
only a few boosts left for SantaRosa and he was like, well, I'd
rather get the right brands inthan sell them to people at
(42:17):
higher prices.
You know what I mean.
So it's all like just set up,set up, set up for the next one,
the next one, the next one.
Again.
He's done it for so long thathe's thinking multiple shows
ahead.
AnnaRae Grabstein (42:28):
Yeah Well, and thinking about the
difference between what you'redoing in California versus what
you're launching in New York, itoccurs to me that there's some
kind of mature market versusemerging market dynamics, and
that you've had an opportunityto, to witness, or to even to
make certain insights intowhat's happening in the industry
, based on who's signing up toto to show at the shows, and I'd
(42:54):
love for you to to share someof that, of what you've noticed
over the years, of how theCalifornia industry has changed
and who's showing up at theshows compared to who's showing
up in the shows in New York.
Rama Mayo (43:03):
Okay, that's a good question.
So, so, new York, we are likewaiting list like crazy still
for, like the non-cannabisbrands.
Right, we want, we really wantcannabis, licensed cannabis
brands, that's it Now.
Of course, if Puffco or one ofthe other companies that we've
worked with forever thateveryone loves, that we love, of
course, wants to do it, ofcourse that's fine.
(43:25):
But even, like you said, likethe ATM companies or the
packaging companies or all thatstuff, most of those people are
on waiting lists and we justwon't take them in, probably.
And New York, it's the firsttime, so it's hard to gauge,
right, we don't really knowwhat's going to happen.
And New York also has a limitedfootprint.
We can't expand.
(43:46):
You know, santa Rosa, we have abillion square feet, so we can
kind of compress and expand andcontract as the shows.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:52):
In New York?
Will you include, like NewJersey brands or Massachusetts
brand, like other Northeastbrands or or buyers from places
that are, because it's so dense,there?
Rama Mayo (44:02):
yeah, that the the goal is that, of course and I
thought we'd have a lot more ofthat but with the new york law,
the way that that we are readingit, it's um, those brands could
come but they couldn't have orshare product whatsoever.
So if that brand wants to comeand show hardware or something
(44:22):
or packaging, of course, butwithout them being able to, even
if they bought, brought, boughtproduct and brought it over and
sampled it, they could stillget in trouble because you know,
we don't have a license in newyork yet they don't have them
for licenses or whatever.
Um, and that's other, I'd saythe other big thing, the biggest
thing is probably thecompliance right.
Hallflower Santa Rosa andVentura is a compliant event.
(44:42):
Licensed is so difficult tolike, do the every part of it,
the planning and the permits andthe fire department and all the
different stuff that needs tohappen to go into it, you know.
And then we're alwaysexperimenting.
Even this show in Santa Rosa,we're changing it up again.
We're changing the entrance.
We're changing the entrance,we're changing the format.
We added a, we took the layoutof the big building, we flipped
(45:06):
it like, almost like reversed ita little bit inside, uh, which
created like a lot more space inthe middle.
We are expanding the outdoorarea, we're pulling back from
some of the other structuresthat that we did in the past,
because you know we want to puteveryone kind of tighter.
But it's just like an ongoing.
It will never stop evolving.
You know the plat, we call it aplatform, I call flowers
(45:27):
platform.
It would always kind of evolveas the industry does.
In 10 years it could be likehere's how we do it, but now
every time we're like what's new, what's you know, and we're
we're so in touch with theexhibitors and the buyers.
We like pull them surveys andall that kind of stuff that you
know, we, you know everythingthey don't like.
We try to fix the next show andthings like that.
(45:48):
So you know we just haven'tbeen able to do it for New York
yet.
You know we don't know what tofix yet.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:53):
Yeah, so there are a lot of cannabis
events.
You've touched on them a littlebit and some of the others kind
of how do you think about that?
Does it feel like like it's ahighly competitive space?
Does it feel like there's roomfor everybody?
Uh, what, what does it takereally to have a winning event
in the space?
Rama Mayo (46:09):
yeah, before I say that, I would say that and this
is coming from me that thereneeds to be more events.
All right, and I think that'sfor Like, imagine, if you think,
if we're music or something youknow, and there was one
festival a year only, you knowwhat I mean or one concert, you
know what I mean.
Like music or football.
(46:29):
Think of your sports.
There was only the Super Bowland no, nothing in between.
Yeah, it'd be big but therewouldn't be, like you know, it
wouldn't be this big worldwidephenomenon.
You know what I mean.
So I think the consumers need alot more to go to Every weekend
.
There needs to be somethinghappening for all the different
types of consumers to startgoing out, right.
So to me, I would say that'show I really look at it Like we
(46:51):
need more.
And then, as far as thecompetition and stuff, I mean I
think we're friends witheverybody.
You know, like we're for themost part, maybe not the b2b
shows as much, but like you knowgeorge gage with mj unpacked,
we're friends.
You know he gives us ticketsand takes care of us.
We take care of him.
You know, we know the bakedguys that do parties around us
(47:11):
respect my region does somestuff.
We know them very well.
Um, who else do we like?
The knee can guy was very nice.
We've reached out, talked acouple times.
I'm blanking on his name,fucking dr k kush.
Doc is a dear friend of ours,dear, dear, dear friend of ours.
You know, um, I don't know it'solympics, but that looks, that
event looks incredible and thereneeds to be more of those, you
(47:33):
know.
So.
Yeah, I don't know.
I, I'm my name's rama.
My mom's a crazy hippie lady.
You know it's like my partnerdanny would probably think
everyone's our competitor.
You know what I mean.
But you know.
But the state fair justhappened.
We love them.
What embark and James up thereare doing, you know um, outside
lands with grasslands, we love.
You know what outside lands andthen bark and super fly are
(47:54):
doing, you know.
So I want, I want the industryto be gigantic.
I had an old client that had asurf company and still has a
surf company and a brilliant,brilliant guy, and he came to me
and originally said I want tolaunch a surf company but I
(48:15):
don't want to take away fromwhat's there.
I want to raise the pond somuch that the little amount we
take away is it's fine becausewe've raised it.
You know what I mean.
So that was like a wow, it's aninteresting approach, you know.
So that's how I feel with withcannabis Like we need everyone
in on this.
You know what I mean.
We need we need all thegrandmas, we need all the
corporate companies in on this,we need Taco Bells and all these
(48:36):
people coming in to the spacefor it to really to be like as
big as we all want it to be.
You know, awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (48:43):
Well, why don't you just put it out there
for the audience of when theupcoming Hall of Flowers is and
where the location is, so peopleknow how to find you?
Rama Mayo (48:51):
Yeah, so Hall of Flowers is in Santa Rosa
September 10th and 11th and B2Bonly.
And then we're in New York CityOctober.
Did I say September 10th and11thB only, and then we're in
New York City October.
Did I say September 10th and11th?
Yeah, let me start over.
Okay, I did Give her yeahanyway.
And then we're in October inNew York City on October 8th and
9th.
Yeah, b2b as well.
So Pier 36 in New York City andSonoma County Fairgrounds in
(49:17):
Santa Rosa.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:18):
Awesome and this has been an incredible
conversation.
It is time yeah, it's so fun tolearn about your story and
everything you're doing.
It is time for our last callRama.
So what is?
Your final message for ourlisteners.
It can be advice, call toaction.
Closing thought.
Rama Mayo (49:34):
Are the listeners all like industry people-ish, b2b
industry people, right?
Yeah, mostly, as we talkedabout before.
Yeah, perseverance, that's mymessage.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:44):
Perseverance I love that.
I agree, yeah, yeah, stayresolute folks.
Well, rama, thank you so much.
Um, it's been a pleasure, Ihope, to hang out and see you
and share a joint at an upcominghall of flowers.
Rama Mayo (49:58):
So absolutely, absolutely.
AnnaRae Grabstein (50:01):
Let's, let's do it.
Rama Mayo (50:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
AnnaRae Grabstein (50:03):
Well, thanks for joining us today.
Have a great one.
Well, what'd you think folks?
Rama's?
Pretty cool, right?
I appreciate everybody that isengaging with this podcast
listening live.
Um, thank you so much to ourteams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer
and to our producer, ericRossetti.
If you enjoyed this podcast,please drop a review on Apple,
(50:26):
spotify, youtube or wherever youlisten.
It helps listeners like youfind our content.
So, thank you.
Please like, subscribe, shareand, as always, folks stay
curious, stay informed and, mostimportantly, keep your spirits
high.
That's our show.
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