September 18, 2025 • 50 mins
Marianne Cursetjee shares how she transformed from cancer patient to cannabis entrepreneur, building Alibi into a premium brand now expanding from Oregon to New York through strategic licensing partnerships.
• Breast cancer diagnosis in 2015 led to discovering cannabis's healing potential
• Built Alibi Cannabis in Oregon with a focus on premium indoor flower and adventure-focused branding
• Butterfly imagery represents breaking down walls for true connection and community
• Took five years of relationship-building before entering the New York market
• Chose licensing partnerships over owning supply chain for efficient expansion
• Reached cashflow positive in New York within five months, beating six-month projection
• Field marketing and authentic community engagement drive brand recognition
• Previous expansion attempts in Massachusetts and Arizona provided valuable lessons
• Maintaining financial discipline with "no debt" philosophy critical for survival
• Hand-trimming flower despite representing 20% of costs aligns with quality values
• New York cannabis market reached $2 billion in sales, with favorable energy compared to mature markets
• Looking at New Jersey and potentially European markets for future growth
Visit alibico.com or follow @alibiny on Instagram to learn more about their products and expansion journey.
--
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marianne Cursetjee (00:00):
Contracts are, of course, important, but
what matters more is what'sbehind it.
Is there actually intent, isthere actually capacity, is
there actually knowledge?
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:21):
Hey everybody , Welcome to episode 105 of High
Spirits.
I'm your host, AnnarieGrabstein, and we're recording
Tuesday, September 16th 2025.
I am flying solo as host today.
Ben is on the move, but I'vealso been on the move.
Last Wednesday I was in SantaRosa for the Hall of Flowers
(00:44):
event, which is really NorthernCalifornia's premier retail and
brand trade show.
And then I zipped east toJersey City for the opening of
an incredible new dispensarycalled Lady L Cannabis.
I actually helped them gettheir license three years ago
and they are finally open aftera very long journey.
So big congrats to the team atLady L.
(01:07):
And then I had the opportunityto stop into New York City and
go to Revelry, which isManhattan's brand and retailer
trade show, where our guest alsowas so excited to share some
things about that experiencewith you all.
And I'm finally back in my homestudio in Sonoma County to
record today, so happy to bejoining all of you and really
(01:29):
excited for a show today with anincredible guest who's going to
share some wisdom with us aboutbrand expansion and growth.
So we'll get to that in just asecond News for today California
cuts cannabis excise tax.
Finally, the lawmakers inCalifornia approved a measure to
(01:50):
reduce the cannabis excise taxfrom 19% down to 15%, starting
October 1st.
It will be in effect throughJune 30th of 2028.
It still needs to be signed bythe governor, but it seems
inevitable at this point.
Governor Gavin Newsom had saidput something in front of me and
I will sign it.
So the legislature has spokenand we're on our way in
(02:13):
California to bringing the taxesback down to what they were
before.
Incremental wins, guys.
We're just getting it back towhere it was.
I know most folks who arelistening to this probably want
the taxes to be a lot lower, andthat is a journey for tomorrow.
(02:33):
Over in Texas, the governor isalso taking action on banning
hemp-derived THC for peopleunder 21 years of age and
changing definitions of hemp andintoxicating cannabinoids.
The governor issued anexecutive order mandating these
changes after failed legislationand multiple sessions, special
sessions.
That happened after thelegislative session ended.
(02:54):
And then a little bit of brightnews New York's legal cannabis
market crossed over into $2billion of retail sales,
including over $1 billion so farin 2025.
Go, New York.
We're really excited to seethat market coming on.
So that's it for our newsupdate today, and we're going to
(03:14):
go right into our guest.
Today's guest is MarianneKersage.
She is the CEO and founder ofAlibi Cannabis.
Marianne didn't plan onbuilding a cannabis brand.
She came from the worlds offinance, business and e-commerce
, but after a breast cancerdiagnosis in 2015, she
experienced the plant's healingpotential firsthand and decided
(03:37):
to make cannabis her life's work.
Together with co-founders, shebuilt Alibi into a premium
Oregon brand known for highquality indoor flower and bold,
elegant branding, and eightyears later, she's leading the
company into new markets likeNew York, while staying grounded
in the values of adventure,authenticity and purpose.
We wanted to have Marianne onbecause, even though we've
(03:59):
talked about brand expansion andmarket entry before, every
journey is unique and Alibi'sstory offers a different
perspective on what it reallytakes to grow across markets.
I'm excited to welcome Mariannetoday.
Welcome Marianne.
Marianne Cursetjee (04:12):
Thanks, anna Rae, it's great to be here.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:14):
Yeah, it's so nice to finally meet you.
I feel like, as women incannabis, we sometimes travel in
these same circles, but thetruth is I don't know if we've
ever shaken hands before, so I'mreally glad that we get to know
each other better today on airwith all our friends.
Yes, and hopefully IRL soon,absolutely IRL.
All the time I'm all about that, yeah, so let's just jump in.
(04:37):
What was the turning point?
From patient to entrepreneur?
Marianne Cursetjee (04:41):
It really sometimes in the dark moments,
which of course there are incannabis.
I blame it on on chemo brain,because going through chemo and
radiation it has this toll onyour body where you're kind of
this permanent brain fog.
And I was just finishing upradiation when we came across
this piece of property and we'relike sure let's buy it, this
(05:05):
piece of property, and we'relike sure let's buy it.
So you know, 10 years laterit's kind of crazy that it's
turned into what it is, but itit.
It was an opportunity, thattiming was just right,
everything lined up, the cardswere just late, you know, laid
out the way it should be.
I was finishing up treatmentfrom cancer and I was at a place
in my life where we had Ididn't have a job to go back to
(05:26):
had some time and Oregon wasjust legalizing.
So I wanted to take what I hadexperienced in terms of the
healing power of the plant andshare that message and it just
kind of all worked out.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:39):
Amazing, and I'm curious why.
Alibi it doesn't seem like it'sa word that connects with the
journey to me when I first hearit.
So tell me about what does thebrand name tell?
What is the story there?
Marianne Cursetjee (05:52):
So it's interesting because there are a
lot of health and wellnessbrands and I specifically didn't
want to be pigeonholed as beinga pharmaceutical replacement we
are not going after like thepure health and wellness, but
that that mindset informs allthe products that we developed.
I'm I feel like cannabis canreally be life changing for more
(06:15):
than just a specific medicalneed today, but really life
changing and and part of thethings that you do every day so
the things that I do every daynot that I do them every day,
but you know the things that Ithink every day so the things
that I do every day not that Ido them every day, but you know
the things that I think are funor going on hikes, or exploring
adventures with friends, orgoing to shows, all of those
things that make life fun andexciting, alibi's there for it,
(06:37):
and that's that's really whatwe're about, because if you're,
if you're feeling better andfeeling connected with your
friends and your community, thenall of those adventures just
create a beautiful life.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:49):
Yeah, beauty is something that, when I saw
your booth at Revelry, reallystuck out at me.
The packaging, the imagery it'sbright, it's colorful, it feels
refined.
Has it always been that way?
Has there been an evolution ofthe brand over time since you
started?
What's that been like?
Marianne Cursetjee (07:07):
There's been absolutely an evolution.
We started off, we hired adesigner I don't know, it's
probably six or eight years agonow to come up with our first
logo, and we used it for alittle bit but nobody really
liked it, and so then we came upwith another one.
It just sort of evolved overtime and then we came across
this imagery that we're usingnow.
(07:28):
That was based on the work ofan artist in LA, and I actually
met her through a women incannabis event.
So it's like these events areuseful and powerful, and the
moment I saw the image I wasjust completely struck like that
embodies what we're trying todo.
So I contacted her, we, webought it and and it's ours and
(07:52):
we transitioned to that.
But it's it's really aboutcelebrating the beauty that we
all have inside of us, and we'reusing the butterflies as a
representation of that.
The butterflies in thisbeautiful sexy fairy, because
it's like a butterfly and youhave a cocoon.
You have butterflies in thisbeautiful sexy fairy because
it's like a butterfly and youhave a cocoon.
You have walls that we each,you know, build to protect
ourselves and to keep ourselvessafe from the outside world, but
(08:14):
I think cannabis helps breakdown those walls so we can have
true connections with ourcommunity and our family and our
friends and really explore allthe adventures that life has.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:25):
That's what Alibi is about.
Yeah, I love that.
Butterfly is such a coolmetaphor for transformation too,
and I often will say that theone thing that, as entrepreneurs
in cannabis, that we have to beready for is that it just never
stops changing.
Reinvention seems to be the onetruth that I can trace across
my career, so I like kind of thedouble, the double entendre and
(08:47):
the meeting, both for theconsumer but also for the
journey of what we're goingthrough, which is what we're
excited to talk about today.
Great so Oregon, really, whereyou got started.
Let's talk about what youaspire for, alibi, to be.
What, what's, what's the path?
Where are you today?
Where have you been?
Regional, national, global?
(09:09):
What excites you right now?
Marianne Cursetjee (09:11):
Well, right now, um, a hundred percent of
our attention is on New York.
New York, We've it's literallytaken us five years to get here,
which which seems crazy, butit's um, you know, people talk
about well, which markets next,next, or how are you going to
expand, and all of those thingsare important, but for me it's
about the community and theconnection, and so I started
(09:31):
deliberately working on buildingout my New York network five
years ago, and it was throughgenuine connection with people
and actually showing up andparticipating.
So they need something.
Hey, let me make an intro foryou, or hey, can I help you with
that Just showing up and beingpart of the community so that
when the product and the brandwas ready for it, that we had
(09:55):
the network and we could succeed.
So it's very much a long journey, at least for me.
That's the way I choose to doit.
Other people have their ownapproach, which is fine, but I
like to do it from a foundationthat's strong and has a lot of
depth to it, so that we can setup for success the best that we
possibly can.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:13):
Well, let's talk about how you actually
pulled it off.
In Oregon you are a cultivator,and in New York you chose a
different path.
Can you explain what that pathis?
Marianne Cursetjee (10:26):
Absolutely so.
With expansion, there'stypically three different ways
to do it.
There's, you know, way morevariations of it, but one path
is to own your supply chain.
So we could have boughtproperty, gotten a license and
set ourselves up as cultivatorsin New York.
That comes with its own set ofchallenges in license, like
there's just so many of whetherwe even would get a license.
(10:48):
But overall, my take on that isthat if you look at the numbers
nationwide, oregon currently islicensed for enough canopy that
we could supply the entire USwithout having anybody else
growing anything, and so to meit doesn't make any sense to try
to invest in infrastructurethat really shouldn't be there,
(11:11):
if you know when descheduling orrescheduling or whatever, when
that happens.
And so I've wanted to.
Strategically, we, you knowwe're in a.
We have limited resources, sowe have to make the most of what
we have, and the way that we dothat is to partner with a
partner farm, and you askedabout setting up the deal and
(11:32):
how the deal works.
Once you get into finding apartner, you can either choose a
licensing deal or aco-manufacturing deal and just
to kind of.
You know my take on those andeverybody has their own
perspective on them.
But a co-manufacturing is whereyou just pay somebody to make
your product for you but, like I, would be responsible for
(11:52):
everything having to do with it,and a licensing deal is that
where we're in it together.
We license the brand but thepartner is responsible for the
manufacturing and sales andthat's the deal that we have.
So I found a partner who isfully integrated on the supply
chain.
New York they can't own retail,but they've got cultivation,
(12:12):
processing, sales anddistribution and it's been great
.
The first time we met them Itruly felt like we were family
and like we could get ourspouses and our kids and just go
hang out in the backyard andhave a barbecue together.
I felt the very similar ethos,similar approaches to business,
(12:34):
similar approaches to life andjust I think that that helped
make it a lot easier.
Not that that's a replacementfor having discipline on the
financial side and being able toexecute in product development,
but it was a good first step.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:49):
Sure, and I'm definitely familiar with
licensing deals and it's alwaysa bit of a give and take about
what each side is going to bringto the table and how you're
going to support it.
You talked about the partnerdoing the cultivation and the
production, getting the productto market and even doing the
sales.
How do you see yourself kind ofinvolved in the success of the
(13:13):
brand in New York and how you dothat in partnership with
someone else that has so muchcontrol over the product through
the manufacturing?
Marianne Cursetjee (13:22):
Yeah.
So this has been a learningjourney for me and for them,
because I really want to be apart of influencing how the
brand is represented in themarket, and so what we've done
is we have provided resources,so we take the marketing side of
it, so we do all of the brandambassadors, we do the pop-ups,
(13:44):
we do trainings, so we're veryinvolved after the sale has been
made, trying to educate the budtenders and talk to consumers.
So that is very much my laneand ours as a brand owner.
That that's the part we 100% do.
And then we collaborate withour partner in terms of product
development and making sure thatthe products that we develop
(14:06):
and have in mind fit the marketand that they have the capacity
to make them.
So we do that together andtheir success is our success and
it's mutual.
So my success is their success.
Like we work together, we havethe same goal, and I think that
piece is really important as younegotiate contracts, so that
you're rolling in the samedirection.
(14:26):
You have the same goals, youcan support each other.
AnnaRae Grabstein (14:29):
Yeah, I really appreciate that and I
like that you seem to be bothcollaborative, but having
clarity around your lanes andthat's such an important part of
the deal process is getting theintentions and clarity around
who's doing what.
I'm curious from a capitalperspective, new York is
notoriously expensive.
It's expensive to do businessthere, real estate is expensive,
(14:50):
labor is expensive, marketingis complicated and expensive,
and I'm wondering how youthought about making an
investment in New York and ifyou brought in outside capital
to do so, or if this issomething that's funded from
existing operations or you andyour partners are doing it.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Marianne Cursetjee (15:11):
Yeah, for sure.
So it's definitely aninvestment, and I had put
together a high-level budget ofa certain amount of money and I
said six months and this amountof money and we should be able
to be cashflow positive and weactually we were cashflow
positive last month.
(15:32):
So that's after being we did asoft launch in April, so we beat
our six month projections,cashflow positive and it's it's
been great.
But, yes, it definitely takesan investment.
The investment for us was inpackaging.
We had to redesign ourpackaging because New York has
different compliance rules thanOregon does, so we had to
(15:54):
completely redo our graphics andthat took some time and some
investment.
Then there's you know the basicthings of buying packaging.
Fortunately, my arrangementwith my partner is that they
provide all the input materials,so I didn't have to go out and
buy flour and all of that.
They provided that and then wesplit the profits at the end.
(16:16):
So that's been great.
The other investments that I'vemade is I invested in PR and I
invested in my field marketingteam, so those are both kind of
upfront costs that were reallyimportant to build the brand.
AnnaRae Grabstein (16:28):
Yeah, so field marketing team Revelry
what did you think?
I assume that your fieldmarketing folks were the people
that I talked to at your boothlast weekend, and how is it
working?
What do you think about themarket?
What did you think aboutRevelry?
What did you see Revelry?
Marianne Cursetjee (16:45):
was so much fun.
I wish that.
I wish I had more time there,because we were so inundated at
the booth.
People were so excited aboutthe brand and wanting to learn
more, and so I really wasfocused on on sharing the alibi
message.
But there's some really coolbrands and some people doing
some amazing things, so I lovethe energy.
(17:06):
It's very different being on theEast Coast compared to the West
Coast.
You know, you're in California,so you know the California
stories and Oregon and evenWashington are very doom and
gloom, like the marketsaturation and people are
struggling and the tax situation, all of those things.
But New York is fun and it'sexciting to see people
(17:27):
appreciate what we've beentrying to build in terms of the
look and feel of and the vibethat we want to create with
Alibi.
So I think it really resonates.
It's really fun being in a roomwhere people are excited about
opening up dispensaries and howcan we partner and how can we
have events that genuinelyconnect with the community.
(17:47):
So I'm really thrilled we cantalk about a couple of events
that we're sponsoring and justlike those are examples of the
energy and it's completely nightand day.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:57):
Sure.
Well, let's dive into Revelry alittle bit more.
These events are reallydesigned to help brands and
retailers transact together, andit's expensive and it's
complicated with all thelogistics, and so the hope is
that you get to meet IRL withretailers who potentially place
orders on the spot.
(18:18):
I hear that that was happeninga lot on Friday and that people
were placing orders with brands,were really making new
additions to their menus, kindof across the board, and that it
was really successful for thebrands that were there.
Is that what you guysexperienced?
Marianne Cursetjee (18:32):
Absolutely.
I haven't seen our finalnumbers yet, but I know at one
point through Friday one of oursales reps had written 30 orders
.
So that's just one of the salesreps.
One know one of five of thesales reps.
So I know a lot of business wasbeing done and it was great
because we were able to.
It's a very efficient way toconnect with with buyers and
(18:55):
bartenders, people at the shop,because they're all coming
around looking for something newand exciting and so we're able
to give out samples and talk tothem and share about our brand
vision and yeah, so wedefinitely transacted a lot of
business.
We got into some shops thatwe've been trying to get into
for months and it just took thatIRL part of them actually
(19:17):
seeing and having a conversation.
So I I love connecting andtalking with people and it's and
just building that community.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:26):
And to put 30 orders in perspective, how many
retail stores are there thatare open in New York right now?
Marianne Cursetjee (19:32):
400 and something.
Yeah, oh, there's that manyGive or take.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:37):
Okay, yeah, so I mean, but that's like close
to 10% of the market that youtouched there.
That's incredible.
And so you said that you'retalking about other events.
Say more.
Marianne Cursetjee (19:48):
Yeah.
So you said that you're talkingabout other events.
Say more, yeah.
So we've been fortunate enoughto be partnered with some really
cool dispensaries that aredoing some awesome things in
their community.
So there's a couple of thingsI'm really excited about.
One of them is out on LongIsland and it's called Unity
Fest.
It's happening this comingweekend and it's a big event
sponsored by the Long IslandCannabis Community and it's
(20:08):
really just a big communityevent, but we're able to show up
and it's going to be a bigparty just celebrating cannabis,
but done in a great way tobuild community.
So we're sponsoring the.
There's a skateboardcompetition, so we've provided a
custom skate deck and thesethings like that don't ever
happen in Oregon.
Oregon's rules around cannabisevents are very strict and the
(20:32):
community just isn't as largeLike there's not as much
population here.
So we there aren't events likethat in Oregon, so it's it's
really exciting to be part ofthat.
But the other event that I'meven more excited about is
happening in October.
It's a weed women and wellnessevent.
So we're sponsoring it and I'mspeaking to talk about how
(20:53):
cannabis can help with trauma.
It's not a big, splashy event,it's more of a small, intimate
event, but I think it's it'sthese conversations about how
cannabis can help us both healfrom our own personal trauma and
then bring us together as as acommunity and as humans.
And that's what I'm reallyexcited about having these
conversations, because that'show we make the world a better
(21:16):
place.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:17):
I love that and I think what you're talking
about is bringing an authenticmessage out into the world.
I'm curious how, as you'rethinking about marketing your
brand, how you think that thatconnects actually to stores
carrying alibi, or consumerschoosing alibi, or or if it
doesn't at all.
Marianne Cursetjee (21:34):
It's been challenging because there are so
many opportunities to sponsorevents that are not necessarily
tied to a dispensary, but we'vebeen really focused on only
sponsoring events eitherphysically located at a
dispensary or or very tightlyclosed, you know, with it.
So the trauma-informed workshopis at a dispensary, it's in
(21:56):
their event space, it's at adispensary, so we're going to be
talking to, so the audience isgoing to be their customers, so
it's people who already arefamiliar with cannabis, at least
superficially.
I don't know what everybody'spath and journey is, but they're
showing up to a dispensary foran educational workshop, so that
kind of pre-qualifies them andbecause we are one of the
(22:19):
best-selling brands at thedispensary, we're able to
connect the dots.
But you're totally right, theother, more community-based
events, it's a longer-term playin terms of connecting the dots
to driving sales.
If they're really expensive, wetypically don't participate
because we're a small brand, Idon't have these big, massive
(22:41):
marketing budgets and we have tobe mindful about choosing where
we invest about choosing wherewe invest.
AnnaRae Grabstein (22:50):
Yeah, Like we talked earlier about how you
met your designer at a women incannabis event, and and I think
that those are powerful storiesabout how sometimes, when you go
to a networking event thatdoesn't feel like it might have
a high ROI, you end up gettingto transact with someone.
And and I love those storiesbecause it is so important,
especially when we're in these,in these groups, like like a
women's event, or if there's,like I see, lots of meetups of
(23:14):
card licensees in New York andother things like that Figuring
out how we can not just supporteach other but actually transact
, I think is one of the thingsthat really pushes the needle
with everyone in theirbusinesses and it's important to
see that, as opposed to justcoming together to commiserate
right.
Marianne Cursetjee (23:32):
Well, and also, I think it's the
difference between treatingeverything as a transaction
which and showing up with oflike, here's what I need.
I don't approach most eventslike that.
I show up as an I'm here toparticipate and be a part of it,
and if there's something I canoffer of it, and if there's
something I can offer, great.
And if there's a need, you know, if it helps me in some way,
(23:53):
that's great.
But that's really secondary.
As another example of that,last year's MJBiz, I was asked
to sponsor a women's event and Iwent back and forth because I
just wasn't sure of the ROI andyou know, all of these things
that we're talking about, doesit actually make sense?
But I decided to because afriend of mine that I had known
(24:13):
for a long time was organizingit.
So I'll just shout out to Sarah, sarah Vertosa, sarah Falvo is
amazing.
So I was like, okay, if it'sSarah's event, it's going to be
great, I'm going to do it.
And at that event is where I metthe Lucia who is running our
field marketing now in New York.
And without those connectionsand without those introductions,
(24:35):
you know, I just showed up.
I had no idea.
Really, I didn't go inexpecting that, but it's been
one of these things that totallytransformed the way that the
brand, the way that we were ableto expand, because I had those
connections and had that network.
So I think that's just the wayI approach things is it's not
transactional, it's it's reallytruly genuinely.
Can I get to know you and howcan we work together?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:58):
I love that and I am such a big Sarah Falvo
fan and she has helped me in allkinds of ways throughout my
journey as well.
So shout out to her for sure.
And I absolutely hear whatyou're saying.
And I think that the differencebetween focusing on the
transaction but just having thetransaction is this concept of
showing up as authentic humans,letting go of the potential
(25:21):
outcome but knowing that we'reputting ourselves in situations
where we can't even imagine whatmagic might happen.
But by putting ourselves there,we get to open ourselves up to
lots of different potentialoutcomes and when they do happen
, that's like where the magic is.
And so often I've realized thatthat's really what it's about
is I need to put myself there.
(25:41):
I don't know what the outcomemight be, but then you end up
meeting someone that can changeyour path, and we can't do that
from behind our computers.
In the same way, andestablishing that level of trust
and connection is reallychallenging remotely, but in
person it's like oh, you're ahuman, I'm a human and we have
all these things that we canconnect on.
(26:02):
It's really powerful stuff.
I love that about cannabis andmaybe it happens in other spaces
, but it's happened to meconsistently throughout my
cannabis journey.
That's beautiful.
I love that about cannabis andmaybe it happens in other spaces
, but it's happened to meconsistently throughout my
cannabis journey.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Well, so you know, we've we'vebeen talking about New York and
how it happened, and I lovedhearing about that connection to
Lucia, who also is great andSmoke Show is is an incredible
company I love.
I love her merch too.
(26:23):
Oh my gosh.
A hundred percent, I mean it'sclose, oh, but so it hasn't
always worked out.
You know, and I think thatyou've had experiences where
partnerships haven't worked out.
I have had the same experience.
I would say that in myexperience working on cannabis
deals, the majority of the dealsthat start off don't close.
(26:44):
That's.
That's just the truth of thematter.
The exploration process leadsto something that means that the
term sheet does not happen, andthat's actually a good thing.
In my opinion.
That is the whole purpose ofdiligence, and a deal process is
to walk the path with anothergroup and learn about each other
(27:06):
enough to figure out if itmakes sense to do business
together.
My understanding is that youhave walked away from deals
before.
New York isn't the first statethat you looked at expanding
into.
I'd love if you could sharesome of your experiences that
you've had before New York, forsure.
Marianne Cursetjee (27:22):
Yeah, happy to.
And it's one of these thingsthat the longer I'm in this
business and maybe it's part ofthe cannabis space or maybe it's
just being older and havingmore experience is trying to
know when you've got to bestubborn and keep pushing,
versus when you pull back andyou pivot and each situation.
(27:44):
Sometimes you just need to pushthrough and make it happen and
other times you need to, like,hold on a second.
Is this really the right path?
And knowing which is which Ithink is really critical.
So I first started looking atexpansion into Massachusetts.
I had some connections inMassachusetts and so I spent
some time.
We had a signed deal with amanufacturer there.
(28:07):
I spent time going through andtrying to build the brand, and
what quickly became apparent wasthat the partner that I had
chosen to do the manufacturingand the distribution did not
have the capacity or theinterest that he said he did.
We had a con, you know, inspite of the contract.
So this is where I thinkcontracts are, of course,
important, but what matters moreis what's behind it.
(28:31):
Is there actually intent, isthere actually capacity, is
there actually knowledge?
And it took some time for me tofigure out that, in fact, this
was not going to work.
It was not super expensive, wehad ordered packaging and you
know I'd spent some timebuilding the market but it
wasn't a devastating loss.
(28:52):
But it was more of a learningexperience to learn how I needed
to better vet potentialpartners and do some better due
diligence so that we're set upfor success.
Because you know you makeenough of those mistakes and it
becomes a problem Making one ortwo.
You can learn from it and makea better choice the next time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (29:11):
Yeah, and I heard you explored Arizona as
well.
Marianne Cursetjee (29:15):
Yeah, Arizona was interesting because
you know, if you look at itpurely from data, you know we're
talking about headset or hoodieor any of the data platforms
you look at state by state wherethe data shows there's
opportunity.
I think that's different fromwhere there actually is
opportunity, like for a smallbrand.
I think if you're a big brand,an MSO, if you're well-funded,
(29:38):
you can create your own space.
But for us, we have to bereally mindful, and so I spent
some time in Arizona, toured acouple of facilities, started
down some due diligence, and itbecame very apparent when we
were asking certain questions indue diligence that this partner
did not have.
(29:58):
They did not have the licensethey said they had, they did not
have the capacity that theysaid they have.
So it was what I was able totake, what I learned from
Massachusetts, where I actuallydid sign a deal, and we took
that to Arizona and asked betterquestions, toured a little bit
more, did some more questioningand realized, no, this is not
going to work, and so that'sthat's part of how we just we
(30:22):
learned.
And then New York happened andhere we are, yeah, Arizona's
wild.
AnnaRae Grabstein (30:26):
I've I've watched it a lot and
participated in different ways,and one of the things about
Arizona is that it's just really, really hard to get on shelf
into retailers because there isan overproduction in Arizona.
There's a lot of verticaloperators and so those vertical
operators are just doing swapdeals with each other to get
(30:47):
product on shelf.
And then there was a prettywild accusation and, I think,
still a pending lawsuit aboutbasically a conspiracy where
some brands were paying buyersoff the books to slide their
products into the shelf I thinkit was true leave, because
otherwise there was no way thatindependent brands were going to
(31:09):
end up on the shelf.
So it turned into this wholeconspiracy and I think that you
probably dodged a bullet byavoiding that one.
So that was some good instinctsthere.
Marianne Cursetjee (31:20):
Yeah, I think so too.
I mean, I'm really glad we'renot there now.
You know it's attractive, youknow if you're just being sucked
in by, oh, we can make so muchmoney.
But it's more than that.
You have to have a goodpartnership and there has to be
a way to be successful, not justabout the money.
AnnaRae Grabstein (31:40):
Sure, and although you said that you're
100% focused on New York rightnow, I know that you also have
aspirations beyond just Oregonand New York and that you've
been watching the global market.
What else are you payingattention to in the ecosystem
right now that gives you hopefor ongoing growth in the space?
Well, there's two things.
Marianne Cursetjee (32:01):
I toured a facility last week when I was in
New York for Ravelry.
I toured a facility in NewJersey and I think New Jersey is
really interesting.
I've been watching New Jerseynow for a couple years.
When I first went out there ayear ago, there wasn't hardly
any cultivation online, and Ithink that's still the case.
It's been very challenging foroperators to get licensed, but
(32:22):
that's slowly changing and Ithink sometime next year there's
going to be a lot more capacity.
I think sometime next yearthere's going to be a lot more
capacity and because New Jerseyand New York are really very,
you know, they're physicallynext to each other and I think
the markets are very similar,it's a natural expansion of the
brand.
So New Jersey is definitely onthe list and I'm actually really
(32:45):
excited about the internationalside.
It's a whole other expansion ofthe brand that we have to make
sure that we don't lose sight ofall the stuff we're doing in,
you know, in Oregon, new Yorkand maybe New Jersey.
But the fact that we have thisopportunity to expand into
Europe seems really cool to me,and I think that's if there's a
few US brands that are workingon it.
(33:06):
But it's also very challenging.
Few US brands that are workingon it, but it's also very
challenging.
But because we have theexperience and the ability to
react quickly, I think thatsomething in Europe would be fun
.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:17):
Yeah, last week's episode we had on Cameron
Clark from Sunderstorm and hisbrand has been doing a lot of
international work and it was amasterclass.
I highly recommend that you gocheck out that episode.
He really he inspired both meand Ben afterwards to really
start taking the internationallandscape more seriously.
(33:37):
So I think you're ontosomething there With New Jersey
and New York.
I'm with you.
I think those communities ofconsumers are one in the same,
and so for brands to be in bothof those markets just is a no
brainer.
People live in New Jersey andwork in New York and they're
(33:57):
buying cannabis in both markets,and to see the same products in
both places just makes a ton ofsense.
And when you're talking aboutinvesting in field marketing, it
is just as efficient.
For someone to be, like inJersey City, always convinced
would be kind of the straw thatbreaks the camel's back.
(34:31):
On interstate commerce andthings, because they're just
already there will be interstatecommerce of things like brand
ambassadors.
Maybe they won't be travelingwith product across state lines,
but they will be traveling withmessage, and I think that those
are things ultimately that willhelp us see policy change too,
because it seems so crazy thatin order to drive from Manhattan
(34:55):
to upstate New York, that themost efficient way is to drive
through Pennsylvania, but youcan't do it with cannabis and
you have to go a less efficientpath just to stay inside the
state.
So I mean, these things are, Ithink, the inefficiencies that
are hopefully going to lead to amore efficient supply chain
eventually.
Marianne Cursetjee (35:16):
Yeah, it's interesting talking about.
You know, the federallegalization at some point and
there's people who are way moreeducated on this than I am, but
I don't think the industry isready for it yet.
I mean, I want, I wantdescheduling as much as the next
person, but simple things likepackaging and testing rules.
We don't have any agreementstate by state what they should
(35:37):
be, much less trying to get all50 states to agree on what that
looks like.
And so the thing that I learnedthis last week in New Jersey is
that New Jersey's packagingrules are so different from New
York.
So you talked about the value ofsomebody you know working in
Manhattan and living in NewJersey, and they buy a pre-roll
(35:57):
in New York and then go to NewJersey and buy the same one at
home.
Well, our packaging is going tohave to look totally different.
And so, from a brandperspective, it's the
conversation we're havinginternally now is well, how do
we do that in a way that isstill authentic and represents
the brand and people willrecognize it, but yet it's still
compliant?
(36:18):
And you know, we got to workthrough that.
But it's these little thingsthat I think the industry needs
to figure out sooner rather thanlater, so that we are ready
when federal legalizationhappens.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:28):
Yeah, and I'm with you that the industry has
no idea how challenging it willbe, sooner rather than later, so
that we are ready when federallegalization happens.
Yeah, and I'm with you that theindustry has no idea how
challenging it will be iflegalization happened tomorrow.
It would not be easy foranybody, and I think, in concept
and construct and in philosophy, we can all want legalization
to be the path forward.
The reality of how it may ormay not work out boots on the
(36:52):
ground is like a whole notherdeal, and, and even like within
the construct of schedule three,which, which seems to be the
closest potential step forward.
Next, I think that there'sgoing to be a lot of unintended
consequences that people don'tquite realize, unintended
consequences that people don'tquite realize, and it will
(37:13):
remain to be seen if it movesforward, and I don't think that
anybody really knows, exceptthose that know, and it's not me
and you.
No, definitely not, luckily, Idon't know.
That's what I will say.
I'm happy to not have thoseinside pieces of knowledge.
You know, I do want to, as we'rekind of rounding out the hour
and the conversation, I want todive in, though, to some of your
(37:36):
experience and lessons learnedabout operating in a mature
market.
Yeah, because I think that thereare really a lot of lessons to
learn and I think I mentioned toyou before we went live, when I
was walking around Revelry,there was a moment of just
feeling like I could see thefuture a little bit after coming
(37:56):
from mature markets and seeinghow things changed, you know,
from 2019 to 2022 in Californiaand now to where we are in 2025.
And you know, in Oregon, it'sreally considered one of the
most competitive cannabismarkets in the US.
Wholesale flower prices are aslow as they've ever been, maybe,
(38:17):
and retail prices per gram pergram, I think are the lowest in
the entire country.
And I just I wonder how, howyou look at the future in these
markets that you're looking atLike.
Do you assume that everythingwill become Oregon?
Do you think that it will staywhere it is now or somewhere in
(38:39):
the middle?
How do you predict the future?
Marianne Cursetjee (38:42):
So I I don't know what the future looks like
, but what I know the thingsthat I know that have been
pivotal to our success in Oregonare no debt.
So I think a lot of people getseduced by all these bells and
whistles of whether it's fancymachinery or upgrades or this or
(39:04):
that.
You know.
There's so many things that youcould spend your money on that
are really cool but don'tactually generate enough profit
to make it worthwhile.
And we try really hard to notbe seduced by the cool it's.
If we need it, then let's saveup for it, if we don't need it,
(39:25):
then let's not buy it.
And that discipline and thatattention to detail has really
helped get us through the toughtimes.
Because there have been toughtimes and I know that there will
be more tough times, that'sjust a given.
And when those tough timeshappen, if you're trying to
figure out do I pay payroll ordo I make my loan payments, then
(39:46):
you're trying to figure out doI pay payroll or do I make my
loan payments, then you're putin a bad position.
And those are the types ofthings that people in the more
East Coast, newer markets, theydon't see that yet and those are
the positions we've been in aslike, okay, how am I going to
pull enough money into thisaccount to make payroll this
week?
And so making decisions withthat in mind mind, so you don't
(40:08):
get over your skis and you don'tget overextended I think that's
the first thing.
So, yeah, don't getoverextended with debt is huge
but also really have operationalexcellence One of the things.
Just as an example we alwayshand trim all of our flour.
Most of our flour is top shelfA-bud and we have toyed with the
(40:32):
idea of getting a trim machine.
It's one of these things thatis really expensive but on paper
could pay for itself.
But we have made the choice toalways hand trim.
It just produces a much betterquality product.
But trimming is now probably20% of our cost of goods and as
we're looking at reducing costs,the conversation comes up every
(40:56):
six months Do we switch that ornot?
But you have to have yourvalues in line with where you're
spending your money so that youcan make that decision easier,
because otherwise you'll just goback and forth and not really
have a plan.
So those are the things that wehave experienced in Oregon that
I think help translate to othermarkets.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:17):
Yeah, I love that the lessons learned really
have to do with efficiency andstewarding capital the right way
.
It's not about how to make thebiggest splash in marketing.
It's like you look at theseoperators on the West Coast and
mature markets and I think thatif we're still there, we are
some of the most efficient,cost-conscious entrepreneurs
(41:40):
that I have ever met who havereally made it through the fire,
and I think that these marketshave a bad reputation because
there has been a tremendousamount of failure and broken
hearts and broken dreams, butthe operators that are still
standing are some of the mostincredible that I have known in
my career and I see goodcompanies shining through all of
(42:03):
it, and I think that whatyou're saying about not being in
debt is huge.
This is such great advice toanyone listening.
Going slow in order to be ableto make good choices and to be
able to afford the expansionthat you're doing is such an
incredible lesson to hear fromMarianne.
So thank you for bringing thatup and this concept about
(42:25):
efficiency.
It's like this is where we needto go, and I think that when
I've seen some of the prices andtalked to some of the New York
operators about where they arewith their margins, with these
very high costs that they'regetting right now, I realized
just how far they have to go,how much learning they have to
do in order to get their coststo where they're ultimately
(42:46):
going to go.
But but hopefully they havetime and that the market will
will kind of walk with them sothat everybody can kind of
figure it out in in due course.
Marianne Cursetjee (42:58):
I hope so.
I mean it's I, and I hope thatpeople are open-minded enough to
ask the questions.
I think that's that's really itis.
If you, if you come into um, tothis business, thinking that
you know everything, then that'sa very different mindset from
hey, I wonder how we can improve, I wonder how we can make this
better.
I want you know all thiscuriosity and I, I I try to fill
(43:19):
my life with curiosity andimprovement and we embed that in
our team at the farm.
So I just I hope that that thatthat translates to other, to
other businesses also.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:29):
Yeah, there is an energy in New York about
like we don't want to hear itfrom what you West coasters who
think you know everything.
Have you encountered that alittle bit, absolutely.
Marianne Cursetjee (43:39):
A hundred percent and I'm like fine, you
know what, like you have it, youdo you.
I'm coming at this with hey,what can I learn and how can I
be better?
And you know it works for me.
But that's not to say that'sthe only way there's.
There's multiple ways of doingbusiness.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:55):
Totally Well.
It's been so cool to get totalk about kind of the nuts and
bolts of the business.
I would be remiss if we didn'tdive into leadership a little
bit, because it's something bothBen and I are really passionate
about.
So let's let's kind of end theconversation talking about that.
I would love to learn aboutyour leadership philosophy in
(44:15):
general.
In an industry full ofuncertainty, how how do you get
up in the morning and staymotivated and stay balanced, or
do you?
Marianne Cursetjee (44:24):
stay balanced?
Maybe not.
You know, work-life balance isa great concept, but when you're
running a small business andthere's just not, I don't think
balance is the right word.
I think if you have a passionfor it, then there's and there's
a reason to show up and youfeel excited about what you're
doing in the day.
That that's all that reallymatters.
(44:55):
So, from a leadershipperspective, it's challenging
because there's a lot of tasksthat still are on my plate in
spite of, you know, shufflingthem off to various teams and
various people.
So it's balancing getting thework done with managing the
overall business, and a phrasethat somebody told me years ago
that has stayed top of mind isthat I need to be in a place
where I can work on the business, not in the business, and so
(45:17):
trying to keep that in mind,with dedicating specific time to
really be the thought leaderand that's an overused term but
really drive strategy and visionfor the business, so that all
the tasks that happen along theway actually are useful and
productive, because we can'tafford to waste anybody's time.
(45:38):
It's challenging because I havemy cultivation team at the farm
and they're very self-sustaining.
My head of cultivation isamazing, but the way that we
invest in her is we continue tosend her.
She wants to go to educationalevents and learn things and
connect with her peers.
So we invest with keeping herup to date on the latest
(45:59):
cultivation methods andtechniques and we invest in the
technology at the farmtechniques and we invest in the
technology at the farm and justreally think about how we can
drive the brand in other stateswhere we have a different model.
So it's a lot of moving partsand a lot of different pieces,
but being able to take timeseparately from all of the daily
(46:20):
tasks to just envision whatthat looks like has been really
important.
AnnaRae Grabstein (46:25):
Yeah, and when you talk about creating
that mix of working on thebusiness versus in the business,
fostering the team, mentoringthem, supporting them in their
growth, do you have a kind ofrhythm of business, like a way
that you structure your life tomake sure that you are making
time for all of these things Ina perfect world what happens
(46:47):
when things go well.
Marianne Cursetjee (46:49):
I like waking up early and doing my
thoughtfulness for the day orfor the week separate, before
I've got dived into emails orall of the tasks for the day.
I got this tablet about a yearago.
It's called Remarkable and it's.
It doesn't have email, itdoesn't have Instagram, it
doesn't have any of the socialtools, but it really is just for
(47:10):
for writing and thoughts andthat's been really helpful to
even if I can just take 15minutes to just go go sit and
think about what the high levelstrategy should be and then the
execution kind of happens alongthe way.
But I think that's the key iscreating time so that the
strategy can get what itdeserves in terms of time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (47:34):
It sounds like really like settling in
with yourself as a part of thatprocess showing up for you in
the morning doing that work sothat then you can be clear and
focused once you're in your day.
I love that.
I I think that sometimes wethink that the work is is in our
business, or even business, butit's often actually on
(47:55):
ourselves.
Marianne Cursetjee (47:57):
I mean and and so I, I do that.
Um, I mean I don't do it asoften as like I should.
I don't like saying I should,because if I should, that I
would, but you know I.
But doing that often as well astaking I should.
I don't like saying I should,because if I should, then I
would, but you know, but doingthat often as well as taking
care of yourself physically,having a good workout routine,
eating well, all of those thingsthat we know about taking care
of our bodies are reallyimportant, because if our bodies
(48:18):
fail, then the business suffers.
So staying healthy, whateverthat means to you, you know not
to be all preachy about what youshould be doing in your life,
but but find those things thathelp you feel better and then
that makes you a better leader.
AnnaRae Grabstein (48:36):
Yes, amen, amen.
Well, marianne, it has beensuch a joy hearing about your
journey and I'm excited to keepfollowing it as you continue on
this path, but it's time for ourlast call, so why don't you
give us your final message forour listeners, advice, call to
(48:56):
action or a closing thought toleave them with?
Marianne Cursetjee (48:58):
Perfect, thank you, yeah, and it's been
great chatting Anna Rae.
I really love the conversation.
So, last call, check us out.
Our website's pretty easy tofind alibico.
We're on Instagram at alibinyand we look forward to
connecting.
Feel free to reach out ifthere's anything we can do.
I love mentoring people, I lovehelping people so and
(49:21):
connecting with the New Yorkmarket, and if you're in New
York, go look for an alibi.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:25):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, marianne,and we'll keep checking back in
and maybe we'll have you back onin a year or something and
learn how it all went.
So best of luck to you.
Marianne Cursetjee (49:36):
Thank you so much, you too.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:38):
Yeah, so that's it, folks.
That is the episode.
I hope you liked it.
I hope you learned somethingabout expanding into a new
market.
I think Marianne shared a lotof great stuff with us today.
Thank you to Vertosa andWolfmeyer for sponsoring this
show and to our producer, ericRossetti.
If you enjoyed the episode,please drop us a review on Apple
(50:00):
Podcasts, spotify, youtube orwherever you listen to podcasts.
It really helps listeners likeyou find our content, subscribe,
share high spirits withcolleagues, friends, family and,
as always, folks, stay curious,stay informed and, most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh.
That's the show.
Contracts are, of course, important, but
what matters more is what'sbehind it.
Is there actually intent, isthere actually capacity, is
there actually knowledge?
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:21):
Hey everybody , Welcome to episode 105 of High
Spirits.
I'm your host, AnnarieGrabstein, and we're recording
Tuesday, September 16th 2025.
I am flying solo as host today.
Ben is on the move, but I'vealso been on the move.
Last Wednesday I was in SantaRosa for the Hall of Flowers
(00:44):
event, which is really NorthernCalifornia's premier retail and
brand trade show.
And then I zipped east toJersey City for the opening of
an incredible new dispensarycalled Lady L Cannabis.
I actually helped them gettheir license three years ago
and they are finally open aftera very long journey.
So big congrats to the team atLady L.
(01:07):
And then I had the opportunityto stop into New York City and
go to Revelry, which isManhattan's brand and retailer
trade show, where our guest alsowas so excited to share some
things about that experiencewith you all.
And I'm finally back in my homestudio in Sonoma County to
record today, so happy to bejoining all of you and really
(01:29):
excited for a show today with anincredible guest who's going to
share some wisdom with us aboutbrand expansion and growth.
So we'll get to that in just asecond News for today California
cuts cannabis excise tax.
Finally, the lawmakers inCalifornia approved a measure to
(01:50):
reduce the cannabis excise taxfrom 19% down to 15%, starting
October 1st.
It will be in effect throughJune 30th of 2028.
It still needs to be signed bythe governor, but it seems
inevitable at this point.
Governor Gavin Newsom had saidput something in front of me and
I will sign it.
So the legislature has spokenand we're on our way in
(02:13):
California to bringing the taxesback down to what they were
before.
Incremental wins, guys.
We're just getting it back towhere it was.
I know most folks who arelistening to this probably want
the taxes to be a lot lower, andthat is a journey for tomorrow.
(02:33):
Over in Texas, the governor isalso taking action on banning
hemp-derived THC for peopleunder 21 years of age and
changing definitions of hemp andintoxicating cannabinoids.
The governor issued anexecutive order mandating these
changes after failed legislationand multiple sessions, special
sessions.
That happened after thelegislative session ended.
(02:54):
And then a little bit of brightnews New York's legal cannabis
market crossed over into $2billion of retail sales,
including over $1 billion so farin 2025.
Go, New York.
We're really excited to seethat market coming on.
So that's it for our newsupdate today, and we're going to
(03:14):
go right into our guest.
Today's guest is MarianneKersage.
She is the CEO and founder ofAlibi Cannabis.
Marianne didn't plan onbuilding a cannabis brand.
She came from the worlds offinance, business and e-commerce
, but after a breast cancerdiagnosis in 2015, she
experienced the plant's healingpotential firsthand and decided
(03:37):
to make cannabis her life's work.
Together with co-founders, shebuilt Alibi into a premium
Oregon brand known for highquality indoor flower and bold,
elegant branding, and eightyears later, she's leading the
company into new markets likeNew York, while staying grounded
in the values of adventure,authenticity and purpose.
We wanted to have Marianne onbecause, even though we've
(03:59):
talked about brand expansion andmarket entry before, every
journey is unique and Alibi'sstory offers a different
perspective on what it reallytakes to grow across markets.
I'm excited to welcome Mariannetoday.
Welcome Marianne.
Marianne Cursetjee (04:12):
Thanks, anna Rae, it's great to be here.
AnnaRae Grabstein (04:14):
Yeah, it's so nice to finally meet you.
I feel like, as women incannabis, we sometimes travel in
these same circles, but thetruth is I don't know if we've
ever shaken hands before, so I'mreally glad that we get to know
each other better today on airwith all our friends.
Yes, and hopefully IRL soon,absolutely IRL.
All the time I'm all about that, yeah, so let's just jump in.
(04:37):
What was the turning point?
From patient to entrepreneur?
Marianne Cursetjee (04:41):
It really sometimes in the dark moments,
which of course there are incannabis.
I blame it on on chemo brain,because going through chemo and
radiation it has this toll onyour body where you're kind of
this permanent brain fog.
And I was just finishing upradiation when we came across
this piece of property and we'relike sure let's buy it, this
(05:05):
piece of property, and we'relike sure let's buy it.
So you know, 10 years laterit's kind of crazy that it's
turned into what it is, but itit.
It was an opportunity, thattiming was just right,
everything lined up, the cardswere just late, you know, laid
out the way it should be.
I was finishing up treatmentfrom cancer and I was at a place
in my life where we had Ididn't have a job to go back to
(05:26):
had some time and Oregon wasjust legalizing.
So I wanted to take what I hadexperienced in terms of the
healing power of the plant andshare that message and it just
kind of all worked out.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:39):
Amazing, and I'm curious why.
Alibi it doesn't seem like it'sa word that connects with the
journey to me when I first hearit.
So tell me about what does thebrand name tell?
What is the story there?
Marianne Cursetjee (05:52):
So it's interesting because there are a
lot of health and wellnessbrands and I specifically didn't
want to be pigeonholed as beinga pharmaceutical replacement we
are not going after like thepure health and wellness, but
that that mindset informs allthe products that we developed.
I'm I feel like cannabis canreally be life changing for more
(06:15):
than just a specific medicalneed today, but really life
changing and and part of thethings that you do every day so
the things that I do every daynot that I do them every day,
but you know the things that Ithink every day so the things
that I do every day not that Ido them every day, but you know
the things that I think are funor going on hikes, or exploring
adventures with friends, orgoing to shows, all of those
things that make life fun andexciting, alibi's there for it,
(06:37):
and that's that's really whatwe're about, because if you're,
if you're feeling better andfeeling connected with your
friends and your community, thenall of those adventures just
create a beautiful life.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:49):
Yeah, beauty is something that, when I saw
your booth at Revelry, reallystuck out at me.
The packaging, the imagery it'sbright, it's colorful, it feels
refined.
Has it always been that way?
Has there been an evolution ofthe brand over time since you
started?
What's that been like?
Marianne Cursetjee (07:07):
There's been absolutely an evolution.
We started off, we hired adesigner I don't know, it's
probably six or eight years agonow to come up with our first
logo, and we used it for alittle bit but nobody really
liked it, and so then we came upwith another one.
It just sort of evolved overtime and then we came across
this imagery that we're usingnow.
(07:28):
That was based on the work ofan artist in LA, and I actually
met her through a women incannabis event.
So it's like these events areuseful and powerful, and the
moment I saw the image I wasjust completely struck like that
embodies what we're trying todo.
So I contacted her, we, webought it and and it's ours and
(07:52):
we transitioned to that.
But it's it's really aboutcelebrating the beauty that we
all have inside of us, and we'reusing the butterflies as a
representation of that.
The butterflies in thisbeautiful sexy fairy, because
it's like a butterfly and youhave a cocoon.
You have butterflies in thisbeautiful sexy fairy because
it's like a butterfly and youhave a cocoon.
You have walls that we each,you know, build to protect
ourselves and to keep ourselvessafe from the outside world, but
(08:14):
I think cannabis helps breakdown those walls so we can have
true connections with ourcommunity and our family and our
friends and really explore allthe adventures that life has.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:25):
That's what Alibi is about.
Yeah, I love that.
Butterfly is such a coolmetaphor for transformation too,
and I often will say that theone thing that, as entrepreneurs
in cannabis, that we have to beready for is that it just never
stops changing.
Reinvention seems to be the onetruth that I can trace across
my career, so I like kind of thedouble, the double entendre and
(08:47):
the meeting, both for theconsumer but also for the
journey of what we're goingthrough, which is what we're
excited to talk about today.
Great so Oregon, really, whereyou got started.
Let's talk about what youaspire for, alibi, to be.
What, what's, what's the path?
Where are you today?
Where have you been?
Regional, national, global?
(09:09):
What excites you right now?
Marianne Cursetjee (09:11):
Well, right now, um, a hundred percent of
our attention is on New York.
New York, We've it's literallytaken us five years to get here,
which which seems crazy, butit's um, you know, people talk
about well, which markets next,next, or how are you going to
expand, and all of those thingsare important, but for me it's
about the community and theconnection, and so I started
(09:31):
deliberately working on buildingout my New York network five
years ago, and it was throughgenuine connection with people
and actually showing up andparticipating.
So they need something.
Hey, let me make an intro foryou, or hey, can I help you with
that Just showing up and beingpart of the community so that
when the product and the brandwas ready for it, that we had
(09:55):
the network and we could succeed.
So it's very much a long journey, at least for me.
That's the way I choose to doit.
Other people have their ownapproach, which is fine, but I
like to do it from a foundationthat's strong and has a lot of
depth to it, so that we can setup for success the best that we
possibly can.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:13):
Well, let's talk about how you actually
pulled it off.
In Oregon you are a cultivator,and in New York you chose a
different path.
Can you explain what that pathis?
Marianne Cursetjee (10:26):
Absolutely so.
With expansion, there'stypically three different ways
to do it.
There's, you know, way morevariations of it, but one path
is to own your supply chain.
So we could have boughtproperty, gotten a license and
set ourselves up as cultivatorsin New York.
That comes with its own set ofchallenges in license, like
there's just so many of whetherwe even would get a license.
(10:48):
But overall, my take on that isthat if you look at the numbers
nationwide, oregon currently islicensed for enough canopy that
we could supply the entire USwithout having anybody else
growing anything, and so to meit doesn't make any sense to try
to invest in infrastructurethat really shouldn't be there,
(11:11):
if you know when descheduling orrescheduling or whatever, when
that happens.
And so I've wanted to.
Strategically, we, you knowwe're in a.
We have limited resources, sowe have to make the most of what
we have, and the way that we dothat is to partner with a
partner farm, and you askedabout setting up the deal and
(11:32):
how the deal works.
Once you get into finding apartner, you can either choose a
licensing deal or aco-manufacturing deal and just
to kind of.
You know my take on those andeverybody has their own
perspective on them.
But a co-manufacturing is whereyou just pay somebody to make
your product for you but, like I, would be responsible for
(11:52):
everything having to do with it,and a licensing deal is that
where we're in it together.
We license the brand but thepartner is responsible for the
manufacturing and sales andthat's the deal that we have.
So I found a partner who isfully integrated on the supply
chain.
New York they can't own retail,but they've got cultivation,
(12:12):
processing, sales anddistribution and it's been great
.
The first time we met them Itruly felt like we were family
and like we could get ourspouses and our kids and just go
hang out in the backyard andhave a barbecue together.
I felt the very similar ethos,similar approaches to business,
(12:34):
similar approaches to life andjust I think that that helped
make it a lot easier.
Not that that's a replacementfor having discipline on the
financial side and being able toexecute in product development,
but it was a good first step.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:49):
Sure, and I'm definitely familiar with
licensing deals and it's alwaysa bit of a give and take about
what each side is going to bringto the table and how you're
going to support it.
You talked about the partnerdoing the cultivation and the
production, getting the productto market and even doing the
sales.
How do you see yourself kind ofinvolved in the success of the
(13:13):
brand in New York and how you dothat in partnership with
someone else that has so muchcontrol over the product through
the manufacturing?
Marianne Cursetjee (13:22):
Yeah.
So this has been a learningjourney for me and for them,
because I really want to be apart of influencing how the
brand is represented in themarket, and so what we've done
is we have provided resources,so we take the marketing side of
it, so we do all of the brandambassadors, we do the pop-ups,
(13:44):
we do trainings, so we're veryinvolved after the sale has been
made, trying to educate the budtenders and talk to consumers.
So that is very much my laneand ours as a brand owner.
That that's the part we 100% do.
And then we collaborate withour partner in terms of product
development and making sure thatthe products that we develop
(14:06):
and have in mind fit the marketand that they have the capacity
to make them.
So we do that together andtheir success is our success and
it's mutual.
So my success is their success.
Like we work together, we havethe same goal, and I think that
piece is really important as younegotiate contracts, so that
you're rolling in the samedirection.
(14:26):
You have the same goals, youcan support each other.
AnnaRae Grabstein (14:29):
Yeah, I really appreciate that and I
like that you seem to be bothcollaborative, but having
clarity around your lanes andthat's such an important part of
the deal process is getting theintentions and clarity around
who's doing what.
I'm curious from a capitalperspective, new York is
notoriously expensive.
It's expensive to do businessthere, real estate is expensive,
(14:50):
labor is expensive, marketingis complicated and expensive,
and I'm wondering how youthought about making an
investment in New York and ifyou brought in outside capital
to do so, or if this issomething that's funded from
existing operations or you andyour partners are doing it.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about that?
Marianne Cursetjee (15:11):
Yeah, for sure.
So it's definitely aninvestment, and I had put
together a high-level budget ofa certain amount of money and I
said six months and this amountof money and we should be able
to be cashflow positive and weactually we were cashflow
positive last month.
(15:32):
So that's after being we did asoft launch in April, so we beat
our six month projections,cashflow positive and it's it's
been great.
But, yes, it definitely takesan investment.
The investment for us was inpackaging.
We had to redesign ourpackaging because New York has
different compliance rules thanOregon does, so we had to
(15:54):
completely redo our graphics andthat took some time and some
investment.
Then there's you know the basicthings of buying packaging.
Fortunately, my arrangementwith my partner is that they
provide all the input materials,so I didn't have to go out and
buy flour and all of that.
They provided that and then wesplit the profits at the end.
(16:16):
So that's been great.
The other investments that I'vemade is I invested in PR and I
invested in my field marketingteam, so those are both kind of
upfront costs that were reallyimportant to build the brand.
AnnaRae Grabstein (16:28):
Yeah, so field marketing team Revelry
what did you think?
I assume that your fieldmarketing folks were the people
that I talked to at your boothlast weekend, and how is it
working?
What do you think about themarket?
What did you think aboutRevelry?
What did you see Revelry?
Marianne Cursetjee (16:45):
was so much fun.
I wish that.
I wish I had more time there,because we were so inundated at
the booth.
People were so excited aboutthe brand and wanting to learn
more, and so I really wasfocused on on sharing the alibi
message.
But there's some really coolbrands and some people doing
some amazing things, so I lovethe energy.
(17:06):
It's very different being on theEast Coast compared to the West
Coast.
You know, you're in California,so you know the California
stories and Oregon and evenWashington are very doom and
gloom, like the marketsaturation and people are
struggling and the tax situation, all of those things.
But New York is fun and it'sexciting to see people
(17:27):
appreciate what we've beentrying to build in terms of the
look and feel of and the vibethat we want to create with
Alibi.
So I think it really resonates.
It's really fun being in a roomwhere people are excited about
opening up dispensaries and howcan we partner and how can we
have events that genuinelyconnect with the community.
(17:47):
So I'm really thrilled we cantalk about a couple of events
that we're sponsoring and justlike those are examples of the
energy and it's completely nightand day.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:57):
Sure.
Well, let's dive into Revelry alittle bit more.
These events are reallydesigned to help brands and
retailers transact together, andit's expensive and it's
complicated with all thelogistics, and so the hope is
that you get to meet IRL withretailers who potentially place
orders on the spot.
(18:18):
I hear that that was happeninga lot on Friday and that people
were placing orders with brands,were really making new
additions to their menus, kindof across the board, and that it
was really successful for thebrands that were there.
Is that what you guysexperienced?
Marianne Cursetjee (18:32):
Absolutely.
I haven't seen our finalnumbers yet, but I know at one
point through Friday one of oursales reps had written 30 orders
.
So that's just one of the salesreps.
One know one of five of thesales reps.
So I know a lot of business wasbeing done and it was great
because we were able to.
It's a very efficient way toconnect with with buyers and
(18:55):
bartenders, people at the shop,because they're all coming
around looking for something newand exciting and so we're able
to give out samples and talk tothem and share about our brand
vision and yeah, so wedefinitely transacted a lot of
business.
We got into some shops thatwe've been trying to get into
for months and it just took thatIRL part of them actually
(19:17):
seeing and having a conversation.
So I I love connecting andtalking with people and it's and
just building that community.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:26):
And to put 30 orders in perspective, how many
retail stores are there thatare open in New York right now?
Marianne Cursetjee (19:32):
400 and something.
Yeah, oh, there's that manyGive or take.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:37):
Okay, yeah, so I mean, but that's like close
to 10% of the market that youtouched there.
That's incredible.
And so you said that you'retalking about other events.
Say more.
Marianne Cursetjee (19:48):
Yeah.
So you said that you're talkingabout other events.
Say more, yeah.
So we've been fortunate enoughto be partnered with some really
cool dispensaries that aredoing some awesome things in
their community.
So there's a couple of thingsI'm really excited about.
One of them is out on LongIsland and it's called Unity
Fest.
It's happening this comingweekend and it's a big event
sponsored by the Long IslandCannabis Community and it's
(20:08):
really just a big communityevent, but we're able to show up
and it's going to be a bigparty just celebrating cannabis,
but done in a great way tobuild community.
So we're sponsoring the.
There's a skateboardcompetition, so we've provided a
custom skate deck and thesethings like that don't ever
happen in Oregon.
Oregon's rules around cannabisevents are very strict and the
(20:32):
community just isn't as largeLike there's not as much
population here.
So we there aren't events likethat in Oregon, so it's it's
really exciting to be part ofthat.
But the other event that I'meven more excited about is
happening in October.
It's a weed women and wellnessevent.
So we're sponsoring it and I'mspeaking to talk about how
(20:53):
cannabis can help with trauma.
It's not a big, splashy event,it's more of a small, intimate
event, but I think it's it'sthese conversations about how
cannabis can help us both healfrom our own personal trauma and
then bring us together as as acommunity and as humans.
And that's what I'm reallyexcited about having these
conversations, because that'show we make the world a better
(21:16):
place.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:17):
I love that and I think what you're talking
about is bringing an authenticmessage out into the world.
I'm curious how, as you'rethinking about marketing your
brand, how you think that thatconnects actually to stores
carrying alibi, or consumerschoosing alibi, or or if it
doesn't at all.
Marianne Cursetjee (21:34):
It's been challenging because there are so
many opportunities to sponsorevents that are not necessarily
tied to a dispensary, but we'vebeen really focused on only
sponsoring events eitherphysically located at a
dispensary or or very tightlyclosed, you know, with it.
So the trauma-informed workshopis at a dispensary, it's in
(21:56):
their event space, it's at adispensary, so we're going to be
talking to, so the audience isgoing to be their customers, so
it's people who already arefamiliar with cannabis, at least
superficially.
I don't know what everybody'spath and journey is, but they're
showing up to a dispensary foran educational workshop, so that
kind of pre-qualifies them andbecause we are one of the
(22:19):
best-selling brands at thedispensary, we're able to
connect the dots.
But you're totally right, theother, more community-based
events, it's a longer-term playin terms of connecting the dots
to driving sales.
If they're really expensive, wetypically don't participate
because we're a small brand, Idon't have these big, massive
(22:41):
marketing budgets and we have tobe mindful about choosing where
we invest about choosing wherewe invest.
AnnaRae Grabstein (22:50):
Yeah, Like we talked earlier about how you
met your designer at a women incannabis event, and and I think
that those are powerful storiesabout how sometimes, when you go
to a networking event thatdoesn't feel like it might have
a high ROI, you end up gettingto transact with someone.
And and I love those storiesbecause it is so important,
especially when we're in these,in these groups, like like a
women's event, or if there's,like I see, lots of meetups of
(23:14):
card licensees in New York andother things like that Figuring
out how we can not just supporteach other but actually transact
, I think is one of the thingsthat really pushes the needle
with everyone in theirbusinesses and it's important to
see that, as opposed to justcoming together to commiserate
right.
Marianne Cursetjee (23:32):
Well, and also, I think it's the
difference between treatingeverything as a transaction
which and showing up with oflike, here's what I need.
I don't approach most eventslike that.
I show up as an I'm here toparticipate and be a part of it,
and if there's something I canoffer of it, and if there's
something I can offer, great.
And if there's a need, you know, if it helps me in some way,
(23:53):
that's great.
But that's really secondary.
As another example of that,last year's MJBiz, I was asked
to sponsor a women's event and Iwent back and forth because I
just wasn't sure of the ROI andyou know, all of these things
that we're talking about, doesit actually make sense?
But I decided to because afriend of mine that I had known
(24:13):
for a long time was organizingit.
So I'll just shout out to Sarah, sarah Vertosa, sarah Falvo is
amazing.
So I was like, okay, if it'sSarah's event, it's going to be
great, I'm going to do it.
And at that event is where I metthe Lucia who is running our
field marketing now in New York.
And without those connectionsand without those introductions,
(24:35):
you know, I just showed up.
I had no idea.
Really, I didn't go inexpecting that, but it's been
one of these things that totallytransformed the way that the
brand, the way that we were ableto expand, because I had those
connections and had that network.
So I think that's just the wayI approach things is it's not
transactional, it's it's reallytruly genuinely.
Can I get to know you and howcan we work together?
AnnaRae Grabstein (24:58):
I love that and I am such a big Sarah Falvo
fan and she has helped me in allkinds of ways throughout my
journey as well.
So shout out to her for sure.
And I absolutely hear whatyou're saying.
And I think that the differencebetween focusing on the
transaction but just having thetransaction is this concept of
showing up as authentic humans,letting go of the potential
(25:21):
outcome but knowing that we'reputting ourselves in situations
where we can't even imagine whatmagic might happen.
But by putting ourselves there,we get to open ourselves up to
lots of different potentialoutcomes and when they do happen
, that's like where the magic is.
And so often I've realized thatthat's really what it's about
is I need to put myself there.
(25:41):
I don't know what the outcomemight be, but then you end up
meeting someone that can changeyour path, and we can't do that
from behind our computers.
In the same way, andestablishing that level of trust
and connection is reallychallenging remotely, but in
person it's like oh, you're ahuman, I'm a human and we have
all these things that we canconnect on.
(26:02):
It's really powerful stuff.
I love that about cannabis andmaybe it happens in other spaces
, but it's happened to meconsistently throughout my
cannabis journey.
That's beautiful.
I love that about cannabis andmaybe it happens in other spaces
, but it's happened to meconsistently throughout my
cannabis journey.
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Well, so you know, we've we'vebeen talking about New York and
how it happened, and I lovedhearing about that connection to
Lucia, who also is great andSmoke Show is is an incredible
company I love.
I love her merch too.
(26:23):
Oh my gosh.
A hundred percent, I mean it'sclose, oh, but so it hasn't
always worked out.
You know, and I think thatyou've had experiences where
partnerships haven't worked out.
I have had the same experience.
I would say that in myexperience working on cannabis
deals, the majority of the dealsthat start off don't close.
(26:44):
That's.
That's just the truth of thematter.
The exploration process leadsto something that means that the
term sheet does not happen, andthat's actually a good thing.
In my opinion.
That is the whole purpose ofdiligence, and a deal process is
to walk the path with anothergroup and learn about each other
(27:06):
enough to figure out if itmakes sense to do business
together.
My understanding is that youhave walked away from deals
before.
New York isn't the first statethat you looked at expanding
into.
I'd love if you could sharesome of your experiences that
you've had before New York, forsure.
Marianne Cursetjee (27:22):
Yeah, happy to.
And it's one of these thingsthat the longer I'm in this
business and maybe it's part ofthe cannabis space or maybe it's
just being older and havingmore experience is trying to
know when you've got to bestubborn and keep pushing,
versus when you pull back andyou pivot and each situation.
(27:44):
Sometimes you just need to pushthrough and make it happen and
other times you need to, like,hold on a second.
Is this really the right path?
And knowing which is which Ithink is really critical.
So I first started looking atexpansion into Massachusetts.
I had some connections inMassachusetts and so I spent
some time.
We had a signed deal with amanufacturer there.
(28:07):
I spent time going through andtrying to build the brand, and
what quickly became apparent wasthat the partner that I had
chosen to do the manufacturingand the distribution did not
have the capacity or theinterest that he said he did.
We had a con, you know, inspite of the contract.
So this is where I thinkcontracts are, of course,
important, but what matters moreis what's behind it.
(28:31):
Is there actually intent, isthere actually capacity, is
there actually knowledge?
And it took some time for me tofigure out that, in fact, this
was not going to work.
It was not super expensive, wehad ordered packaging and you
know I'd spent some timebuilding the market but it
wasn't a devastating loss.
(28:52):
But it was more of a learningexperience to learn how I needed
to better vet potentialpartners and do some better due
diligence so that we're set upfor success.
Because you know you makeenough of those mistakes and it
becomes a problem Making one ortwo.
You can learn from it and makea better choice the next time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (29:11):
Yeah, and I heard you explored Arizona as
well.
Marianne Cursetjee (29:15):
Yeah, Arizona was interesting because
you know, if you look at itpurely from data, you know we're
talking about headset or hoodieor any of the data platforms
you look at state by state wherethe data shows there's
opportunity.
I think that's different fromwhere there actually is
opportunity, like for a smallbrand.
I think if you're a big brand,an MSO, if you're well-funded,
(29:38):
you can create your own space.
But for us, we have to bereally mindful, and so I spent
some time in Arizona, toured acouple of facilities, started
down some due diligence, and itbecame very apparent when we
were asking certain questions indue diligence that this partner
did not have.
(29:58):
They did not have the licensethey said they had, they did not
have the capacity that theysaid they have.
So it was what I was able totake, what I learned from
Massachusetts, where I actuallydid sign a deal, and we took
that to Arizona and asked betterquestions, toured a little bit
more, did some more questioningand realized, no, this is not
going to work, and so that'sthat's part of how we just we
(30:22):
learned.
And then New York happened andhere we are, yeah, Arizona's
wild.
AnnaRae Grabstein (30:26):
I've I've watched it a lot and
participated in different ways,and one of the things about
Arizona is that it's just really, really hard to get on shelf
into retailers because there isan overproduction in Arizona.
There's a lot of verticaloperators and so those vertical
operators are just doing swapdeals with each other to get
(30:47):
product on shelf.
And then there was a prettywild accusation and, I think,
still a pending lawsuit aboutbasically a conspiracy where
some brands were paying buyersoff the books to slide their
products into the shelf I thinkit was true leave, because
otherwise there was no way thatindependent brands were going to
(31:09):
end up on the shelf.
So it turned into this wholeconspiracy and I think that you
probably dodged a bullet byavoiding that one.
So that was some good instinctsthere.
Marianne Cursetjee (31:20):
Yeah, I think so too.
I mean, I'm really glad we'renot there now.
You know it's attractive, youknow if you're just being sucked
in by, oh, we can make so muchmoney.
But it's more than that.
You have to have a goodpartnership and there has to be
a way to be successful, not justabout the money.
AnnaRae Grabstein (31:40):
Sure, and although you said that you're
100% focused on New York rightnow, I know that you also have
aspirations beyond just Oregonand New York and that you've
been watching the global market.
What else are you payingattention to in the ecosystem
right now that gives you hopefor ongoing growth in the space?
Well, there's two things.
Marianne Cursetjee (32:01):
I toured a facility last week when I was in
New York for Ravelry.
I toured a facility in NewJersey and I think New Jersey is
really interesting.
I've been watching New Jerseynow for a couple years.
When I first went out there ayear ago, there wasn't hardly
any cultivation online, and Ithink that's still the case.
It's been very challenging foroperators to get licensed, but
(32:22):
that's slowly changing and Ithink sometime next year there's
going to be a lot more capacity.
I think sometime next yearthere's going to be a lot more
capacity and because New Jerseyand New York are really very,
you know, they're physicallynext to each other and I think
the markets are very similar,it's a natural expansion of the
brand.
So New Jersey is definitely onthe list and I'm actually really
(32:45):
excited about the internationalside.
It's a whole other expansion ofthe brand that we have to make
sure that we don't lose sight ofall the stuff we're doing in,
you know, in Oregon, new Yorkand maybe New Jersey.
But the fact that we have thisopportunity to expand into
Europe seems really cool to me,and I think that's if there's a
few US brands that are workingon it.
(33:06):
But it's also very challenging.
Few US brands that are workingon it, but it's also very
challenging.
But because we have theexperience and the ability to
react quickly, I think thatsomething in Europe would be fun
.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:17):
Yeah, last week's episode we had on Cameron
Clark from Sunderstorm and hisbrand has been doing a lot of
international work and it was amasterclass.
I highly recommend that you gocheck out that episode.
He really he inspired both meand Ben afterwards to really
start taking the internationallandscape more seriously.
(33:37):
So I think you're ontosomething there With New Jersey
and New York.
I'm with you.
I think those communities ofconsumers are one in the same,
and so for brands to be in bothof those markets just is a no
brainer.
People live in New Jersey andwork in New York and they're
(33:57):
buying cannabis in both markets,and to see the same products in
both places just makes a ton ofsense.
And when you're talking aboutinvesting in field marketing, it
is just as efficient.
For someone to be, like inJersey City, always convinced
would be kind of the straw thatbreaks the camel's back.
(34:31):
On interstate commerce andthings, because they're just
already there will be interstatecommerce of things like brand
ambassadors.
Maybe they won't be travelingwith product across state lines,
but they will be traveling withmessage, and I think that those
are things ultimately that willhelp us see policy change too,
because it seems so crazy thatin order to drive from Manhattan
(34:55):
to upstate New York, that themost efficient way is to drive
through Pennsylvania, but youcan't do it with cannabis and
you have to go a less efficientpath just to stay inside the
state.
So I mean, these things are, Ithink, the inefficiencies that
are hopefully going to lead to amore efficient supply chain
eventually.
Marianne Cursetjee (35:16):
Yeah, it's interesting talking about.
You know, the federallegalization at some point and
there's people who are way moreeducated on this than I am, but
I don't think the industry isready for it yet.
I mean, I want, I wantdescheduling as much as the next
person, but simple things likepackaging and testing rules.
We don't have any agreementstate by state what they should
(35:37):
be, much less trying to get all50 states to agree on what that
looks like.
And so the thing that I learnedthis last week in New Jersey is
that New Jersey's packagingrules are so different from New
York.
So you talked about the value ofsomebody you know working in
Manhattan and living in NewJersey, and they buy a pre-roll
(35:57):
in New York and then go to NewJersey and buy the same one at
home.
Well, our packaging is going tohave to look totally different.
And so, from a brandperspective, it's the
conversation we're havinginternally now is well, how do
we do that in a way that isstill authentic and represents
the brand and people willrecognize it, but yet it's still
compliant?
(36:18):
And you know, we got to workthrough that.
But it's these little thingsthat I think the industry needs
to figure out sooner rather thanlater, so that we are ready
when federal legalizationhappens.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:28):
Yeah, and I'm with you that the industry has
no idea how challenging it willbe, sooner rather than later, so
that we are ready when federallegalization happens.
Yeah, and I'm with you that theindustry has no idea how
challenging it will be iflegalization happened tomorrow.
It would not be easy foranybody, and I think, in concept
and construct and in philosophy, we can all want legalization
to be the path forward.
The reality of how it may ormay not work out boots on the
(36:52):
ground is like a whole notherdeal, and, and even like within
the construct of schedule three,which, which seems to be the
closest potential step forward.
Next, I think that there'sgoing to be a lot of unintended
consequences that people don'tquite realize, unintended
consequences that people don'tquite realize, and it will
(37:13):
remain to be seen if it movesforward, and I don't think that
anybody really knows, exceptthose that know, and it's not me
and you.
No, definitely not, luckily, Idon't know.
That's what I will say.
I'm happy to not have thoseinside pieces of knowledge.
You know, I do want to, as we'rekind of rounding out the hour
and the conversation, I want todive in, though, to some of your
(37:36):
experience and lessons learnedabout operating in a mature
market.
Yeah, because I think that thereare really a lot of lessons to
learn and I think I mentioned toyou before we went live, when I
was walking around Revelry,there was a moment of just
feeling like I could see thefuture a little bit after coming
(37:56):
from mature markets and seeinghow things changed, you know,
from 2019 to 2022 in Californiaand now to where we are in 2025.
And you know, in Oregon, it'sreally considered one of the
most competitive cannabismarkets in the US.
Wholesale flower prices are aslow as they've ever been, maybe,
(38:17):
and retail prices per gram pergram, I think are the lowest in
the entire country.
And I just I wonder how, howyou look at the future in these
markets that you're looking atLike.
Do you assume that everythingwill become Oregon?
Do you think that it will staywhere it is now or somewhere in
(38:39):
the middle?
How do you predict the future?
Marianne Cursetjee (38:42):
So I I don't know what the future looks like
, but what I know the thingsthat I know that have been
pivotal to our success in Oregonare no debt.
So I think a lot of people getseduced by all these bells and
whistles of whether it's fancymachinery or upgrades or this or
(39:04):
that.
You know.
There's so many things that youcould spend your money on that
are really cool but don'tactually generate enough profit
to make it worthwhile.
And we try really hard to notbe seduced by the cool it's.
If we need it, then let's saveup for it, if we don't need it,
(39:25):
then let's not buy it.
And that discipline and thatattention to detail has really
helped get us through the toughtimes.
Because there have been toughtimes and I know that there will
be more tough times, that'sjust a given.
And when those tough timeshappen, if you're trying to
figure out do I pay payroll ordo I make my loan payments, then
(39:46):
you're trying to figure out doI pay payroll or do I make my
loan payments, then you're putin a bad position.
And those are the types ofthings that people in the more
East Coast, newer markets, theydon't see that yet and those are
the positions we've been in aslike, okay, how am I going to
pull enough money into thisaccount to make payroll this
week?
And so making decisions withthat in mind mind, so you don't
(40:08):
get over your skis and you don'tget overextended I think that's
the first thing.
So, yeah, don't getoverextended with debt is huge
but also really have operationalexcellence One of the things.
Just as an example we alwayshand trim all of our flour.
Most of our flour is top shelfA-bud and we have toyed with the
(40:32):
idea of getting a trim machine.
It's one of these things thatis really expensive but on paper
could pay for itself.
But we have made the choice toalways hand trim.
It just produces a much betterquality product.
But trimming is now probably20% of our cost of goods and as
we're looking at reducing costs,the conversation comes up every
(40:56):
six months Do we switch that ornot?
But you have to have yourvalues in line with where you're
spending your money so that youcan make that decision easier,
because otherwise you'll just goback and forth and not really
have a plan.
So those are the things that wehave experienced in Oregon that
I think help translate to othermarkets.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:17):
Yeah, I love that the lessons learned really
have to do with efficiency andstewarding capital the right way
.
It's not about how to make thebiggest splash in marketing.
It's like you look at theseoperators on the West Coast and
mature markets and I think thatif we're still there, we are
some of the most efficient,cost-conscious entrepreneurs
(41:40):
that I have ever met who havereally made it through the fire,
and I think that these marketshave a bad reputation because
there has been a tremendousamount of failure and broken
hearts and broken dreams, butthe operators that are still
standing are some of the mostincredible that I have known in
my career and I see goodcompanies shining through all of
(42:03):
it, and I think that whatyou're saying about not being in
debt is huge.
This is such great advice toanyone listening.
Going slow in order to be ableto make good choices and to be
able to afford the expansionthat you're doing is such an
incredible lesson to hear fromMarianne.
So thank you for bringing thatup and this concept about
(42:25):
efficiency.
It's like this is where we needto go, and I think that when
I've seen some of the prices andtalked to some of the New York
operators about where they arewith their margins, with these
very high costs that they'regetting right now, I realized
just how far they have to go,how much learning they have to
do in order to get their coststo where they're ultimately
(42:46):
going to go.
But but hopefully they havetime and that the market will
will kind of walk with them sothat everybody can kind of
figure it out in in due course.
Marianne Cursetjee (42:58):
I hope so.
I mean it's I, and I hope thatpeople are open-minded enough to
ask the questions.
I think that's that's really itis.
If you, if you come into um, tothis business, thinking that
you know everything, then that'sa very different mindset from
hey, I wonder how we can improve, I wonder how we can make this
better.
I want you know all thiscuriosity and I, I I try to fill
(43:19):
my life with curiosity andimprovement and we embed that in
our team at the farm.
So I just I hope that that thatthat translates to other, to
other businesses also.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:29):
Yeah, there is an energy in New York about
like we don't want to hear itfrom what you West coasters who
think you know everything.
Have you encountered that alittle bit, absolutely.
Marianne Cursetjee (43:39):
A hundred percent and I'm like fine, you
know what, like you have it, youdo you.
I'm coming at this with hey,what can I learn and how can I
be better?
And you know it works for me.
But that's not to say that'sthe only way there's.
There's multiple ways of doingbusiness.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:55):
Totally Well.
It's been so cool to get totalk about kind of the nuts and
bolts of the business.
I would be remiss if we didn'tdive into leadership a little
bit, because it's something bothBen and I are really passionate
about.
So let's let's kind of end theconversation talking about that.
I would love to learn aboutyour leadership philosophy in
(44:15):
general.
In an industry full ofuncertainty, how how do you get
up in the morning and staymotivated and stay balanced, or
do you?
Marianne Cursetjee (44:24):
stay balanced?
Maybe not.
You know, work-life balance isa great concept, but when you're
running a small business andthere's just not, I don't think
balance is the right word.
I think if you have a passionfor it, then there's and there's
a reason to show up and youfeel excited about what you're
doing in the day.
That that's all that reallymatters.
(44:55):
So, from a leadershipperspective, it's challenging
because there's a lot of tasksthat still are on my plate in
spite of, you know, shufflingthem off to various teams and
various people.
So it's balancing getting thework done with managing the
overall business, and a phrasethat somebody told me years ago
that has stayed top of mind isthat I need to be in a place
where I can work on the business, not in the business, and so
(45:17):
trying to keep that in mind,with dedicating specific time to
really be the thought leaderand that's an overused term but
really drive strategy and visionfor the business, so that all
the tasks that happen along theway actually are useful and
productive, because we can'tafford to waste anybody's time.
(45:38):
It's challenging because I havemy cultivation team at the farm
and they're very self-sustaining.
My head of cultivation isamazing, but the way that we
invest in her is we continue tosend her.
She wants to go to educationalevents and learn things and
connect with her peers.
So we invest with keeping herup to date on the latest
(45:59):
cultivation methods andtechniques and we invest in the
technology at the farmtechniques and we invest in the
technology at the farm and justreally think about how we can
drive the brand in other stateswhere we have a different model.
So it's a lot of moving partsand a lot of different pieces,
but being able to take timeseparately from all of the daily
(46:20):
tasks to just envision whatthat looks like has been really
important.
AnnaRae Grabstein (46:25):
Yeah, and when you talk about creating
that mix of working on thebusiness versus in the business,
fostering the team, mentoringthem, supporting them in their
growth, do you have a kind ofrhythm of business, like a way
that you structure your life tomake sure that you are making
time for all of these things Ina perfect world what happens
(46:47):
when things go well.
Marianne Cursetjee (46:49):
I like waking up early and doing my
thoughtfulness for the day orfor the week separate, before
I've got dived into emails orall of the tasks for the day.
I got this tablet about a yearago.
It's called Remarkable and it's.
It doesn't have email, itdoesn't have Instagram, it
doesn't have any of the socialtools, but it really is just for
(47:10):
for writing and thoughts andthat's been really helpful to
even if I can just take 15minutes to just go go sit and
think about what the high levelstrategy should be and then the
execution kind of happens alongthe way.
But I think that's the key iscreating time so that the
strategy can get what itdeserves in terms of time.
AnnaRae Grabstein (47:34):
It sounds like really like settling in
with yourself as a part of thatprocess showing up for you in
the morning doing that work sothat then you can be clear and
focused once you're in your day.
I love that.
I I think that sometimes wethink that the work is is in our
business, or even business, butit's often actually on
(47:55):
ourselves.
Marianne Cursetjee (47:57):
I mean and and so I, I do that.
Um, I mean I don't do it asoften as like I should.
I don't like saying I should,because if I should, that I
would, but you know I.
But doing that often as well astaking I should.
I don't like saying I should,because if I should, then I
would, but you know, but doingthat often as well as taking
care of yourself physically,having a good workout routine,
eating well, all of those thingsthat we know about taking care
of our bodies are reallyimportant, because if our bodies
(48:18):
fail, then the business suffers.
So staying healthy, whateverthat means to you, you know not
to be all preachy about what youshould be doing in your life,
but but find those things thathelp you feel better and then
that makes you a better leader.
AnnaRae Grabstein (48:36):
Yes, amen, amen.
Well, marianne, it has beensuch a joy hearing about your
journey and I'm excited to keepfollowing it as you continue on
this path, but it's time for ourlast call, so why don't you
give us your final message forour listeners, advice, call to
(48:56):
action or a closing thought toleave them with?
Marianne Cursetjee (48:58):
Perfect, thank you, yeah, and it's been
great chatting Anna Rae.
I really love the conversation.
So, last call, check us out.
Our website's pretty easy tofind alibico.
We're on Instagram at alibinyand we look forward to
connecting.
Feel free to reach out ifthere's anything we can do.
I love mentoring people, I lovehelping people so and
(49:21):
connecting with the New Yorkmarket, and if you're in New
York, go look for an alibi.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:25):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, marianne,and we'll keep checking back in
and maybe we'll have you back onin a year or something and
learn how it all went.
So best of luck to you.
Marianne Cursetjee (49:36):
Thank you so much, you too.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:38):
Yeah, so that's it, folks.
That is the episode.
I hope you liked it.
I hope you learned somethingabout expanding into a new
market.
I think Marianne shared a lotof great stuff with us today.
Thank you to Vertosa andWolfmeyer for sponsoring this
show and to our producer, ericRossetti.
If you enjoyed the episode,please drop us a review on Apple
(50:00):
Podcasts, spotify, youtube orwherever you listen to podcasts.
It really helps listeners likeyou find our content, subscribe,
share high spirits withcolleagues, friends, family and,
as always, folks, stay curious,stay informed and, most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh.
That's the show.
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