October 20, 2025 • 52 mins
We dig into the rise of THC beverages from dispensary side racks to big-box end caps, then peel back how Uncle Arnie’s raised $7.5M, built distribution state by state, and scaled a team while staying scrappy. Theo shares lessons on dosage, education, and why focused markets beat scattershot launches.
• Target’s Minnesota pilot and retail data signals
• Ohio’s 90-day hemp ban and policy risks
• Uncle Arnie’s Series A and investor sentiment shift
• Dispensary versus hemp channels by dosage
• Distribution selection and portfolio discipline
• Merchandising strategy for cans and shots
• Education programs for staff, retailers, and consumers
• Scaling leadership, hiring, and culture
• Predictions on national distributors and retailer pilots
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--
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Theo Terris (00:00):
In some states, you can have a two milligram
serving size.
In other state, you can have afive, a ten, a fifteen, a
twenty.
And I think in Tennessee thatthe serving size is up to 15
milligrams.
So you the brand can definewhat the serving size actually
is.
Ben Larson (00:21):
Hey everybody.
Welcome to Las Vegas! I mean erepisode 109 of High Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson, and with me asalways is Anna Ray Grabstein.
Uh we're recording Tuesday,October 14th, 2025, and we have
an amazing show for you today.
One of my best friends in theindustry, Theo Terrace, is going
(00:43):
to be joining us from UncleArnie's.
Find out where he's tuning infrom.
Before we get there, Anna Ray,our things back at home.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:52):
They're so good.
It was a super fun weekend.
I accidentally stumbled into anOktoberfest celebration and got
volunteered by some friends tobe in an all-women's stein
holding competition.
Um, which How many do hold?
It's just it was one.
The idea is it's like it'sreally glass stein.
(01:14):
It's a liter of beer, and youhave to lock your elbow and hold
it out like at a right angleuntil you just can't hold it
anymore.
You know, I thought becauseI've been doing all this weight
training that I was like, oh, Iam definitely winning the stein
holding competition.
And um, it was actually a lotharder than I expected.
(01:34):
I did not place in the topthree.
I think I was like number sixout of about 30.
Um, I did get an enormous freebeer out of it, which wasn't
really that meaningful to me.
It did just kind of it was itwas like a really fun beverage
um inspired kind of celebrationthat got me thinking about kind
of like what this space could beif we actually let ourselves
(01:56):
have a little fun sometimes.
Ben Larson (01:58):
So yeah, yeah.
The theme of our episode,beverage celebration.
Wait, so how long must you holda stein at 90 degrees to place
sixth place?
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:10):
I I wish that I had kept track of the time.
It felt like a really longtime, but it was probably like
three minutes.
It was so it was at this placecalled Brewster's Beer Garden
that's like this big outdoorspace that has this big
Oktoberfest celebration, and allthe staff was wearing
leaderhosen, and they had umlike a pretty hilarious band
(02:32):
called the polka geists, likepoltergeists, but they were
doing polka and um yodeling.
And um they gathered all, itwas like there was a women's and
a men's, but obviously Iparticipated in the women's one
and they got a big circle, andwe all faced each other in a
circle and held out our arm at90 degrees.
(02:53):
And you know, what'sinteresting is within all the
weight training that I've beendoing, that my trainer always
tells me not to lock my joints.
So I'm not allowed to lock myelbow or lock my arm.
But in the Steinholdingcompetition, they forced us to
lock our elbows.
And I think that that was partof it is that like my muscles
weren't attuned to having alocked elbow.
(03:14):
I wanted to trick it a littlebit.
Um, it's um one of thosethings.
I realize that I hate to lose.
So entering a competition thatI did not win was a real
disappointment.
But at the same time, I thinkthat I won just by playing a
lot.
So did Rocco witness this orwhat um the family was there,
(03:36):
friends were there, and actuallymy my friend was placed in the
top three.
So shout out to Becky Hagler,who yeah, placed in the top
three.
Ben Larson (03:46):
Uh awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:47):
And um, you also, though, have been in a
competitive place.
You've been in Vegas throwingdown gambling, right?
Ben Larson (03:55):
Yeah, that that part has not been too competitive.
The house, the house hasdefinitely been the all-star.
But yeah, an October fest ofsorts, I suppose.
The National Beer WholesalersAssociation conference.
Massive.
Old habits break hard.
I'm staying at the Cosmo, butthe the event's actually being
held at Caesars, which is twohotels down, which everyone
(04:16):
knows is about a mile away.
But yeah, it's it's it's wildto see how far the hemp beverage
category has come over the lastyear.
You know, we were a glimmer ofhope uh at last year's MBWA.
Uh, my team attended last year,and this year it just seems
that THC is on display.
(04:37):
It was on the slide deck of thekeynote.
It's been the buzz of the show,and there are booths sprinkled
throughout the three expo floor.
So very exciting.
We held a co-hosted event lastnight with the countermeasures
corp team, and that was just ablast.
(04:57):
There's just so many cool eventspaces in in Vegas.
We we had this speakeasy, youknow, it just looked like it's
called Caspians at Caesars.
It looks like just a normal,normal hotel bar, and then you
go through the painting, andthen there's this whole
speakeasy that's like 10 timesbigger in the back.
So that was a lot of fun.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:16):
Awesome.
I love that.
I think this all laddersperfectly into our guest.
Um, but let's quickly just rundown two news stories that I
think we'll we'll be able toweave into the conversation.
There was big news in the THCbeverage world this week.
Target began selling THCinfused beverages at 10 of their
(05:37):
stores in Minnesota.
Yeah, huge.
And and the state even approvedall 72 of Target stores in
Minnesota to sell theseproducts.
But it's it's unclear whatTarget's plan is if they're
gonna roll them out to all ofthem.
But the state does require aregistration.
And there were there were 10 uhbrands or so that were included
(05:58):
um in this launch.
Ben Larson (06:00):
Those brands Birdie, Can, Giggly, High Seltzer,
Indeed, Stigma, Surly, TrailMagic, Wonder, Wild, and Wink.
So yeah, shout out to thosebrands.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:11):
Yeah, congratulations.
Big stuff, big news this weekfor sure.
Were people talking about thisin Vegas?
Ben Larson (06:17):
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah, definitely.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:19):
Or were they talking about anything else?
Yeah.
Ben Larson (06:22):
It's it's just a lot of excitement.
You know, there's like Imentioned, there's a lot of beer
wholesalers here.
I was meeting with Top Brass atthe biggest names in in beer
wholesaler industry.
This is the most excitingcategory that they've ever seen.
Literally, like ever seen.
And so anyone that's stilldiscounting THC beverages, they
just need their head out of thesand because the the people want
(06:46):
it, the retailers want it, thedistributors want it, and it's
happening.
So this was just kind of icingon the cake, just very uh
indicative of of the times.
And and interesting though, youknow, there's a lot of turmoil
in Minnesota in particular whenit comes to shifting
regulations.
And so it's this dichotomy thatwe live in.
Rules are changing, regulatorsare trying to wrap their arms
(07:08):
around it, and it's two stepsforward, one step back in a lot
of cases.
I think it only helps theconversation to draw more
attention to it and make peopleactually put in responsible
regulations instead of justknee-jerk reactions, like what
we're seeing potentially inOhio.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:27):
I'm particularly excited from like
the data perspective for apublic company like Target to be
doing this, so that we canreally start to get clear
insight over what theopportunity is.
So, like when a store brings inTHC beverages like Target, what
is the opportunity there?
How much volume can be moved,how much revenue can be
captured, how many consumers arepurchasing and coming back
(07:50):
again and again.
And and the more we get theseuh really mature and experienced
retailers to be selling thecategory, we're gonna be getting
like all kinds of new consumerinsight.
So I'm I'm really excited aboutthat.
Ben Larson (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, totally exciting.
You know, we we've had the datafor years coming out of
dispensaries, you know, one totwo percent was the the data
that we were we're forced tohear year after year.
And then dispensaries all of asudden, like John Halper from
Top 10 Liquors claiming 15% ofhis alcohol sales with 3% of the
square footage.
(08:22):
And now Target is a completelydifferent landscape, so it's not
a liquor store.
So we're gonna see like whatthe sell-through is in these
kind of mega store supermarketshelves.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:32):
But what if Target could capture the same
percentage of THC beverage salesas a percentage of their
overall adult beverages the waythat John Helper stores do?
I mean, that would be reallyamazing.
So yeah, we'll see.
Ben Larson (08:47):
And what if uh what if people maybe start to believe
my crazy belief that we can getto $50 billion in in market
cap?
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:56):
Hey, all you got to do is put the number on
the board, figure out how towork backwards, right?
Ben Larson (09:00):
Exactly.
I love reverse engineering.
AnnaRae Grabstein (09:02):
Reverse engineer it.
Um well, so you mentioned Ohio.
You also mentioned people thathave their heads in the sand.
I guess it could be arguedputting those two comments
together that Ohio governor MikeDeWine maybe has his head in
the sand.
He uh just issued a ban on umall hemp derived THC products,
(09:22):
including drinks, gummies, andall other products.
Um it's a 90-day ban on thesale of intoxicating hemp
derived products, but it'sunclear what will happen after
those 90 days.
So we're we're in a weirdpurgatory right now in Ohio when
it comes to hemp.
Ben Larson (09:40):
Yeah, I think uh we need to make sure that we're
having rational conversations inbetween now and that deadline.
And when I say rational, I meanactually listening to the
policymakers.
Following on my little talk Igave last week at the Ignited
conference, I actually had anice follow-up conversation with
Christine Dempsey at the DCC.
(10:01):
Thank you, Christine.
I really appreciate the theopen conversation and the
candor.
You know, I can't talk aboutthe details that we discussed,
but all I gotta say is like cometo the table, speak honestly,
like hear what the regulator isopen to, and I think we'll find
some rational pathways uh thatdon't overreach the desire of
the state, but maybe actuallydoes create channels for for
(10:23):
THC.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:24):
Well, okay, more on that later, I guess.
I've have biting my nailscuriosity, but we'll we'll we'll
talk offline.
Okay, let's let's bring onTheo.
Theo Terras is the CEO of UncleArnie's, one of the fastest
growing beverage brands in theUS.
Before founding Uncle Arnie's,Theo built and ran successful
(10:45):
video advertising business.
He is known for brandstorytelling, digital strategy,
consumer engagement.
He is a creative entrepreneurat his core and is excited to be
building a brand withculturally resonant mindset and
lasting impact.
And Theo is a friend of both ofours, and we're just excited to
(11:05):
come on and celebrate hisrecent announcement of his big
series, A Rays, and all thegrowth that's ahead for Uncle
Arnie.
So welcome, Theo.
Theo Terris (11:12):
Thank you, guys.
Thank you, Ben.
Thank you, Anna Ray.
Excited to be here.
Yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:16):
Where are you?
It looks like you're in thecar.
Theo Terris (11:18):
Yes, I am currently in the car in Indianapolis, uh,
Indiana.
I was with Ben actually lastnight in uh in Vegas at that
party.
You're teleporting, man.
Yeah, it was uh that's if Ilook a little tired, I was I was
telling Ben and Anna Ray justbefore this.
I'm running on about two orthree hours of sleep.
(11:38):
So hang hanging in there.
Ben Larson (11:40):
Life of a life of a CEO.
Uh yeah, man, what's going on?
I did just hang out with you inVegas.
It was a great time last night.
Now you're across the country.
Like, what's happening in yourworld?
Why are you on the move?
Yeah, what's on the schedule?
Theo Terris (11:56):
Yeah, it's been a busy couple days, a busy couple
weeks ahead, starting a two orthree-week tour where I'm going
to like 11 states, I think, 10or 11 states, starting
California, went to Nevada.
Um, the plan was actually, andAnna Ray just mentioned the
executive order in Ohio.
So I took a red-eye flight toCincinnati where I was planning
(12:17):
on being for a day or two, whichdoesn't make sense uh for the
for the next 60 or 90 days inIndiana, headed to Illinois and
Wisconsin, and then I'll be onthe East Coast in New York, New
Jersey, Connecticut, uh,Maryland, and then North
Carolina as well.
So excited for the next coupleof weeks.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:37):
What are you doing in all these states?
Meeting with customers or yourteam?
What does it look like?
Theo Terris (12:44):
Yeah, it's kind of a combination of meeting with
our distribution partners,meeting with our sales team,
being out in the market.
So today I'm actually with oneof our uh Ohio reps that came
for a blitz for the next coupledays here uh in Indiana.
And then we've got two reps inthe market in Indiana, one of
which just started like a month,month and a half ago.
(13:05):
So I'd never met her face toface.
So just seeing the market forthe day, spending time with
them.
Um, I was here maybe threemonths ago or four months ago,
but a lot has actually changed.
A lot more brands coming to thespace, a lot.
Some of the bigger retailershave started selling temp temp
derived drinks.
So just excited to see what'schanged in such a you know
short, short time frame.
(13:26):
Awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:27):
So the reason I said to Ben about six weeks
ago, we got to get Theo on hereis because you guys had just
announced a seven and a halfmillion dollar Series A raise.
And it was co-led by MindsetCapital and Delta Emerald
Ventures.
And you also through thatbrought on a strategic investor
onto your board who is afounding partner of Boston Beer.
(13:49):
And this just felt like suchgreat news in the sector.
And we often talk about thatgood companies can raise
capital, which is a bit of adifferent narrative than what we
hear people say all the time isthat there's no equity capital
for cannabis companies at allanymore.
And you kind of proved usright.
So thank you.
And uh we're curious to justlearn about that and and want to
(14:15):
know like how you pulled offthis raise and what is this
raise gonna do for you guys?
Theo Terris (14:19):
Yeah, totally.
So just to be clear, it took usalmost five years to close our
series A.
It didn't happen overnight.
And I probably heard, I don'tknow, a thousand, two thousand,
five thousand no's beforegetting the yes, but super
excited that Mindset, DeltaEmerald, Harry Rubin, the
strategic investor.
These were actually all threeexisting investors or investor
(14:42):
groups in Uncle Arnie's.
Our first strategic investorwas Harry Rubin and the Boston
Beer kind of group, let's say,that came in about two years
ago.
So that was our first strategicround of funding.
Shortly after that, both Ianand and Aaron from Delta Emerald
and Mindset Global had investedin the company.
And then about yeah, six orseven months ago, the
(15:04):
opportunity presented itself.
We've been growing quitequickly, both on the
recreational side and on thehemp side as well.
Um, so I think it just happenedkind of naturally where we
approached Ian, we approachedAaron, and vice versa.
They were excited about ourbusiness, the growth that
they're that we were seeing onboth the rec and hemp side.
And this was really just tofuel more growth across the
(15:27):
country on both the rec and hempside.
Ben Larson (15:29):
And Theo, let's let's talk about the growth a
little bit, like the brand.
Because we we had Avon a coupleyears ago, and we were talking
about how you guys just swamupstream, and like we're gonna
we're gonna cater to the thelegacy consumer.
We're gonna build a differentbrand, we're not gonna build for
the soccer moms uh that prettymuch every other brand is is
(15:52):
building for.
Has the sentiment changedaround that strategy from the
investment side of the table?
Have people under finallyunderstood what it means to to
be addressing that that thatconsumer?
Theo Terris (16:06):
Yeah, I think for for us to begin with, and again,
we started this company sixyears ago at this point, and we
started in the recreationalchannel.
And before we even jumped intothe rec space, we wanted to
understand who the consumer wasthat was going to a dispensary,
what they were looking for, andwe wanted to understand why
beverage back in 2019 or early2020 was 0.1% of the overall
(16:29):
market and what we could do tochange it.
And it really wasn't rocketscience.
We kept hearing kind of thesame thing that beverages didn't
taste particularly good.
There were no great emulsionproviders out there like
Fertosa.
Shout out to Ben and his team.
Beverages were overpriced atthe time.
And there was no brand thatreally resonated to that legacy
(16:50):
consumer, the consumer that wasgoing into dispensary.
So we made it our concertedeffort really just to come out
with a really high qualityproduct that tasted really good,
that hit you well, that wasaffordable, that was accessible,
and more than anything, wasreally fun.
So we pride ourselves on, youknow, being a fun brand, going
to the dispensary, going to awine or liquor store, bar or
restaurant, seeing thepackaging, seeing the branding,
(17:12):
um, and really having itresonate with you.
So I think that's appliednicely both across the
dispensary channel.
And then also as we've goneinto hemp as well, people are
looking for that.
It's a kind of a crazy worldthat we're living in today.
I don't think we're necessarilygoing after that soccer mom per
se.
We're just trying to go after,you know, someone that's looking
to have a fun time, someonethat's looking to enjoy the
(17:35):
actual taste of the products, doit at a at an afford at an at
an affordable price as well.
So yeah, I don't think we'regeared specifically to the
soccer mom.
We're not geared specificallyto that legacy consumer.
We're just trying to, you know,come out with a product that is
fun, that's accessible, that'stasty.
Ben Larson (17:52):
Yeah, but to depress you a little bit on it, right?
It was a barrier for investmentin the earlier days.
There were investors that wouldpurely be like, Oh, yeah,
that's not the future.
Yep.
And and but now, like Mindset,Aaron Edelheit, and and Ian
Dominguez, uh, Delta Emerald,they're now getting behind this.
So sentiment has changed, whichis is great to hear.
(18:13):
Yeah, you guys.
Theo Terris (18:15):
Yep.
Again, the sentiment changedmostly because what's happening
on the hemp side, just the totaladjustable market, um, some of
the the stuff that you werequoting earlier, like 15 to 20
percent of top 10 sales in awine and liquor store is coming
from hemp derived drinks justtwo years in.
We've done well on thedispensary side, but Ben, you're
(18:36):
in California.
I'm mostly in California, NRA,you're the same.
And it's grown from that 0.1%in 2019 or 2020, but it's pretty
much capped at that 2%.
And we're continuing to growbecause we're coming out with
other with new high-qualityproducts.
We're keeping the prices, youknow, competitive and low.
There's less brands coming intothe the rec space, but I think
(18:57):
what most investors are lookingat and the upside is actually
what's happening on the hempside, which just didn't exist
really in 2020, 2021, and thethe first part of 2022.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:07):
I think it's interesting.
You're you're talking aboutkind of how you went from
regulated cannabis into hemp.
And a lot of the beverages thatstarted in regulated cannabis
with you abandoned the spacealtogether and have just decided
to go all in on hemp because ofof what was able to be
(19:28):
accomplished there that couldn'tbe accomplished in the
regulated space.
And and you've you've continuedto maintain your position in in
some regulated cannabis marketswhile focusing on hemp.
Tell us about what theopportunity is in hemp that is
different, similar from fromregulated cannabis.
Like what's the difference thatyou're seeing?
Theo Terris (19:48):
How I see it is in the next, I don't know if it's
gonna be three years, fiveyears, ten years down the road,
there's really gonna be twochannels that you can buy hemp
derived beverages or cannabisbeverages.
There's gonna be the dispensarychannel, which by and large,
the consumer that's still gonnago in there is that, or the
consumer that's gonna bepurchasing the most at a
dispensary is still gonna bethat daily cannabis consumer
(20:10):
that's going.
They're looking for affordableproducts, they're looking for
flour, they're looking forvapes, they're looking for
edibles, they're look maybethey're looking for beverages,
but on the beverage side, stillit's gonna be that high dose
beverage.
So to this day, 90% plus of oursales are still coming from
that 100 milligram drink.
I think around 10% or so arecoming from 10 milligrams or
(20:32):
lower on that side.
And then the hemp derivedchannel, what we're starting to
see in more and more states thatare fully regulating hemp,
they're putting a container capof three milligrams in the case
of Connecticut, five milligramsin the case of states like Rhode
Island, 10 milligrams in the incases like the state of
Minnesota.
So we really, really see thetwo like not really competing
(20:53):
with one another, more low dosefor hemp drive drinks and you
know, higher dose drinks beingin dispensaries.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:00):
And and I know that with Target's
announcement, they announcedthat five milligram is the most
that any of their products thatthey're selling, at least with
this initial launch, uh, ishappening, even though in
Minnesota, where they'reoperating, 10 milligrams is an
option.
Do you do you think that'sthat's a mistake?
Like what what are you seeingwith consumer behavior on the
(21:22):
hemp drink side as it pertainsto dosage?
Theo Terris (21:25):
Yeah, no, I think it's a smart move on their end
to, I mean, the fact thatthey're even doing a pilot, to
your point, even if it's 10stores just in Minnesota, that
is a huge, huge win for thecategory.
I think it's a starting point.
I think it's smart of them tostart with something on the
lower dose side.
Do I think that they'll, asthey've as they continue to
(21:45):
expand either within Minnesotaor outside of Minnesota, I think
they will probably start toexplore something a little bit
higher.
Probably in Minnesota, they'llthey'll accept a 10 milligram
drink.
I don't know if it's going tobe over the next six months,
year, year and a half, but Ithink it would probably be a
mistake on their end not to toat least allow 10 milligram
drinks.
From the data that we've seenthat we have access to from our
(22:08):
sales data as well, 10 milligramdrinks still make up probably
80% of the overall Minnesotamarket.
So um, they're definitelymissing out on uh from a sales
perspective.
But they're a big, to yourpoint, publicly traded company.
They don't want to take somemassive risk to begin with.
Maybe the consumer that's goinginto Target isn't your typical
(22:29):
cannabis consumer.
So they want to, you know, lowand slow to start, and maybe
they'll expand from there.
Ben Larson (22:36):
With these these major retailers coming on board,
conferences like what we wereattending yesterday and today,
the MBWA, what is yourphilosophy on distribution?
Because THC Beverages is inthis unique place where you have
the beer wholesalers cateringto the business, you have the
wine and spirits wholesalersalso supporting it, which is
(22:59):
just a really uniqueopportunity.
So how's Uncle Arnie'sapproaching this when there's so
many options when you're whenyou're looking at each state?
Theo Terris (23:07):
Before we go into any state, we really try to
understand the opportunity.
We we try to understand ifUncle Arnie's will fit well into
the market if we have the rightproducts, if we have the right
proposition, let's say, with tounderstand what competition
looks like.
In some states, like in thecase of Minnesota, there are a
lot of distributors on thealcohol side, on the wine and
liquor side, and on the beerside, to your point.
(23:28):
In some smaller states, youonly have a couple small,
mid-size craft beer distros thathave entered the space.
Um, so we're taking, I wouldn'tsay a little bit of a different
approach than a lot of the hempbeverage brands that are just
trying to pick wine and liquordistributor or more so like a
beer wholesaler.
We're trying to understand themarket.
We're trying to meet all thedistributors, understand who's
(23:49):
the best partner, who's buyinginto the category, who's setting
up a dedicated THC sales team.
We don't want to be one of the20 or 50 brands that they're
throwing at the wall and hopingthat that one of them sticks.
It's more trying to find withsomeone that really aligns with
our values, that believes in thebrand, that believes in us,
that will work alongside us.
Um, so it's really not kind ofa one size fits all.
(24:11):
So in some instances, we'vegone with the A B network, in
some instances we're withJohnson Brothers, like here in
Indiana, in other instanceswe're with the Molson network.
So it's it's it looks a littlebit different in every state,
but that's been our philosophytill now.
But to your point, and youmentioned it before I jumped on,
it seems like the largerdistributors are getting closer
(24:34):
to inching into the category.
So I think that's probablygonna be the next big thing come
the beginning or middle of 2026when the the races of the
world, the breakthroughs of theworld, the sub-ins of the world
dive into the category.
Ben Larson (24:48):
I'm gonna I'm gonna press a little bit on the um the
portfolio size like strategy,you know.
Not not that you're adistributor yourself, but do you
have kind of a perspective onwhat the optimal portfolio size
is for these distributors?
Because we've always talkedabout it's like we we can't sit
solo on a shelf because thenwe're not a category, it's just
(25:11):
a single product.
But too many obviously createsa ton of dilution.
So like maybe 20 or 30 brandsis way too much.
Like, what's what's the sweetspot for really garnering the
the consumer's attention butgiving the brand the the optimal
opportunity to shine?
Theo Terris (25:27):
I would say around 10 brands or so.
Um, again, differentiatedbrands.
Maybe you have one that's likewe've got most of our drinks or
all of our drinks on the hempside today are non-carbonated,
very fruity, either teas,lemonade, stuff of that nature.
You want to have a coupleseltzers, a couple sodas, maybe
a brand that's focused just onshots or just on the 750
(25:49):
milliliters if the if the statepermits.
But yeah, certainly anythingover like 15 to 20, I think it's
there's no way for adistributor to a distributor to
focus on that many brands and doit well.
So I think the distributors, atleast the ones that we've had
really good success in thus far.
(26:10):
One good example is in NewJersey, where with a distributor
called Allied.
Um they're one of the largestalcohol distributors uh in the
state, actually, if not thelargest, I think them and
Fedway.
They've built out a dedicatedTHC team, both on the sales
side, on the brand ambassadorside, on the merchandising side
as well.
We've worked really closelywith them.
(26:30):
I think we were the first brandthat they launched back in May.
So I think they're they're theyseem to be taking things
seriously more so than thanmost.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:40):
What advice can you give to other brands
that might be listening to thisabout getting into distribution
relationships, lessons learned,things that you have figured out
through maybe changes if youhave changed, things like that?
Theo Terris (26:54):
Yeah, I would say our philosophy, and this was the
same on the recreational side,where the first, and Ben, you
know this, Anna, I thank you aswell, for all of 2020 through
2022 into into 2023.
So the first three plus yearsof our business were focused
solely on the rec market, solelyon California.
(27:14):
As you guys know, California isthe largest market, it's the
most competitive market, it'swhere brands are born.
We wanted to put all of ourtime, money, and energy into
that market before even lookingat any other market.
And we took that same kind ofphilosophy into hemp as well,
where we entered the the firstmarket we entered was the the
Mecca of Hemp Beverage, which isMinnesota.
(27:37):
And we wanted to enter thatmarket because it was actually
the most saturated market, it'sthe most competitive, and we
wanted to prove ourselves there.
So we ended up partnering withthe A B network on the
distribution side.
We found really good uhmanufacturers.
I think Ben and Ryan and theteam over at Fertosa initially
connected us with Surly.
Um, they've done a phenomenaljob on the manufacturing side.
(27:59):
So for us, it was really likemy advice would be pick one
market, maybe two markets,really get to understand it,
understand if you can win inthat market, prove yourselves
there before trying to spreadinto two, three, five, fifteen,
twenty other markets.
I'm saying there's a lot ofother brands out there.
The last I looked, there werelike a thousand, you know, hemp
(28:20):
beverage brands, but I thinkthere's really only like
probably 15, 20, maybe 30 thathave really proven themselves
across multiple markets.
So I would say I would justadvise to really pick one market
and do that market really wellbefore um before trying to
spread into other markets.
AnnaRae Grabstein (28:38):
Even 12 to 18 months ago, it was still such
an anomaly and exciting to justhave an announcement that one of
these distributors was carryingthese types of products.
And I think that theconversation at that time with
hemp beverages, people weretalking a lot more about direct
to consumer because thereweren't as many pathways to
market, or it was harder to getthese distributors on board.
(29:03):
And now we have lots ofdistributors and some of the
biggest distributors in theworld that are talking about the
category target is sellingthese products.
Is this the the the slow, theslow death of direct to consumer
uh beverage sales?
Theo Terris (29:18):
I wouldn't say it's gonna be uh a complete death,
or I don't know what's gonnahappen with D2C.
Our philosophy was actuallykind of the opposite, where we
focus solely on the retail side,um, both on the rec side and
also as we got into hemp for thefirst, really the first year
give or take.
So we only launchedUnclearney's.com end of fall of
(29:39):
2024 give or take.
So it's been about a year.
Um, we didn't do it in the bestway, we weren't taking it all
that seriously.
Um, it was only about twomonths ago that we brought on a
VP of e com, a guy named MoHassan.
He's done a phenomenal job thusfar.
He rebuilt the entire site.
We've changed uh performanceagencies, email marketing
(29:59):
agencies.
He's 3PL as well, kind of kindof starting everything from
scratch.
I don't think D2C is gonna uhnecessarily go away overnight.
And I think it's great forbrand building, but definitely
the focus for us, and I wouldalso advise that the focus for
any brand really entering thecategory is more so on the
wholesale side than on the D2Cside.
Ben Larson (30:20):
Yeah, yeah, we hear that a lot.
I love what you were sayingabout going deep into states or
regions.
And you know, I've talked to anumber of large brands looking
at the space, potentialacquirers, and what they're
looking at in brands is is theability to show like the resale
power or the repurchase power ofthe brand.
(30:42):
And so really focusing on thatis an important aspect.
When we start to talk aboutmarkets, I also start to think
about form factors becauseagain, THC beverages is one of
those things that's transcendingcategories.
We obviously have the cannedformats, the ready-to-drink
formats.
We also have shots which youguys sell.
(31:03):
Can you talk about that dynamicbetween just how they show up
in the store?
Are they next to each other?
Are they in different spaces inthe store?
And then also, like, what arejust the trends with
distributors or differentretailers in in various states?
Whatever direction you want totake it.
Theo Terris (31:20):
Yeah, so for us, we've got two major products at
the moment.
We've got our cans, which areprimarily in 12-ounce standards
or 12-ounce sleeks.
We've got our two-ounce shotsas well.
Um, generally speaking, theydon't sit side by side.
I was just in a total linebefore uh before jumping on this
podcast.
And it's actually amazing whatthey've been doing.
(31:41):
So they have, I mean, multipleend caps at this point with the
cans and with the 750s.
And then most of the shots aresitting by the counter, which is
great.
It's more of that kind ofimpulse spy where, you know,
next to the fireball, next tothe patron shots, next next to
the little nip.
So I think that that's wherethose the the the two-ounce
shots, you know, should shouldbe sitting versus the the cans,
(32:05):
which really are sitting in inin other parts of the store and
then their own kind of dedicatedend caps.
Ben Larson (32:11):
Amazing.
Theo Terris (32:11):
There's also the 750s, which at least in Total
Wine, they kind of have theirown dedicated end caps as well,
but they're also scatteredaround the wine and liquor kind
of departments as well, um,which is interesting.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:26):
When you're talking about the store and
being in Total Wine and whatwhat's being merchandised next
to you, it gets me thinking justabout competition in general
and who the customer is.
Is a THC beverage brand likeyours competing with the other
THC beverage brands, or are youcompeting with the other
beverages that are at Total Winegenerally?
(32:47):
And and I wonder, because Ithink that if I was going into
Total Wine, I might be buying abunch of different things and
depends on kind of what I'mfeeling, how how enlivened I am
by some of the merchandisingthat I I might buy that fireball
shot, but I also might buy anUncle Arnie shot.
Ben Larson (33:04):
Please don't buy the fireball shot.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:07):
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know if I've ever had afireball shot.
Theo Terris (33:12):
Those things are flying still, believe me.
The the total line that we werejust in, more people were
buying those fireball shots thananything else in the store.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:20):
So you're competing with fireball then,
clearly, because you you wantthose fireball customers to try
your stuff, right?
Theo Terris (33:26):
Yeah, I I honestly don't see, at least with the
brand that we have.
And I think we've done a prettygood job kind of carving
ourselves out from being thatfun brand, very flavorful, very
fruity drinks, very affordable,more on the more potent side of
things.
So if there's two and a half orfive or ten milligrams in most
(33:48):
of these stores, we're kind ofsitting in at the 10 milligram
spot, at least for now.
Um, so I don't really see us ascompeting with most of the
other hemp beverage brands outthere.
There are a couple competitorsout there, but by and large, I
think um we just need moreconsumers to gravitate towards
hemp beverages.
Ben Larson (34:05):
So as people gravitate towards hemp
beverages, Theo, beyond doing 11states in 10 days or whatever
you're doing, how do you standapart like to be a top-selling
brand that's attracting capital?
Like what's the secret?
Like how what do brand ownersneed to know as far as like
building that traction andgetting the backing, gaining the
(34:27):
consumer, you know, whatever itis to get category leadership?
Theo Terris (34:31):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I wouldn't pinpoint it to onething.
I think it's really amultifaceted answer where one,
it's building out the right teamacross the entire company,
whether that's on the financialside, the operational side, the
marketing side, the sales sideas well, um, having really
differentiated products and verydifferentiated branding, um,
(34:53):
making sure that you're workingwith the best in class partners
on both on the product side andon the distribution side, um,
making sure that the productsare affordable, at least at this
point.
It's not easy to get consumersto uh to go in and buy something
that's ultra premium if they,especially if they haven't tried
a hemp beverage to begin with.
So I think it's really acombination of the right sales
(35:16):
structure, marketing,distribution, product, uh,
consistency as well.
The fact that, Ben, we'veworked with you guys and the
Vertosa team for the last sixyears.
And I'm not just saying itbecause you're the the one
hosting the podcast, knowingthat we have very stable
products out there that areconsistent, that are tasty, that
are affordable, I think goes areally long way.
(35:36):
Um and really just forming goodrelationships with our
distribution partners, makingsure that our sales team is out
actually out there in themarket.
I would say out of the, I don'tknow, 15 or 20 brands that I'm
seeing in most of the storeshere in Indiana, I haven't seen
other sales reps around themarket at all.
The same thing when I was herethree months ago.
So I think one of the thingsthat we're trying to do is just
(35:58):
be a little bit more aggressivewhen it comes to HR, when it
comes to sales.
We've got two folks in Indianaalone, which I think is two more
than most of the other brandsout there.
But it's it's making a bigdifference when you go and you
meet retailers and they'vesampled the product and that
they know a little bit about thecompany.
They know what the producttastes like.
So they can advocate for itwhen consumers come in.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:21):
You're you're talking about the ground game
of really having a presence inthe market, which is so, so
important.
But there's also so much talkin the category about the need
for education so that the peoplewho are working in the stores
are able to explain the productsto consumers that are coming in
and that the consumers have theeducation that they need.
What does that look like beyondsales reps?
(36:43):
Are there trainings?
Is like how do we educate thepeople who work in the stores in
an effective way so that theycan be the ambassadors of the
products when you're not thereto explain them to the consumer?
Theo Terris (36:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, one of the first thingsthat we did as a company when we
pivoted or when we went intohemp as well as on the rec side
is we appointed one of our firsthires, maybe the first sales
hire that we had at the companynamed Gabby Vale.
She was running our Californiasales.
She's super, superknowledgeable on the cannabis
(37:16):
industry as a whole.
She lives in California.
I don't know, Ben, if you'veprobably met her, NRA.
I don't know if you've met her.
Um, so she's actually runningour education across the entire
company.
I think we're probably the, asfar as I know, the only hemp
beverage company or cannabiscompannis beverage company that
has a dedicated educational teamthat is with one, our own
(37:37):
employees.
So every new employee thatstarts goes through a whole
training program on cannabis, onhemp, on THC, on the side
effects, on the pros and cons,how to sell it, how to market
it, everything of that nature.
And we give that same type ofeducation to the retailers, to
consumers, to our distributionpartners.
Um, and we hope that you knowthat it doesn't happen overnight
(38:00):
because I do think one of thebiggest things that's lagging as
a category, and probably thething that can take this entire
category down is if peoplearen't educated and they don't
know how to consume thesebeverages.
So we're taking educationsuper, super seriously.
Ben Larson (38:15):
I love that.
That is amazing.
And I know how much work it isto consistently educate the
community, especially theconsumer.
What I'm often surprised at ishow much we have to still
educate the the cannabis market,right?
Like just really explain whatis happening in this category.
(38:37):
From your perspective, likewhat is one of the big
misconceptions, or what do yourun into that you're having to
educate your own peers on aboutlike what's happening in the in
the THC beverage category?
Theo Terris (38:49):
One of the hardest things to educate people on is
dosage.
Also confusing becauseregulations across different
states are extremely different.
And we touched on that a littlebit earlier, but in some states
you can have a two milligramserving size, and another
another state you can have afive, a 10, a 15, a 20.
(39:10):
And I think in Tennessee, thethe serving size is up to 15
milligrams.
So you can the brand or the candefine what the serving size
actually is.
Um, so I think from aneducational standpoint, it's
it's a it's a bit challenging toyou know to recommend or to to
advise you know what someoneshould try.
(39:31):
You can't even say, oh yeah,try one serving size because one
serving size in one state isdifferent from a serving size in
another state.
Ben Larson (39:38):
Well, and then you have a dispensary channel that
will take the same form factorand have a hundred milligrams or
two hundred milligrams in insome states.
Theo Terris (39:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'd say that's the biggestchallenge around education, at
least thus far.
AnnaRae Grabstein (39:51):
Well, so we would be remiss to not talk
about leadership as we had youon.
It's something that's importantto both of us.
And um, you've been goingthrough some rapid scaling.
And I think it is alwaysinteresting to hear about where
that really stretches us asindividuals and as leaders, and
then how that translates intothe way that we guide and lead
(40:14):
our companies.
And I'd love to hear a littlebit about your approach, what
you've been going throughthrough all of these changes.
You talked about it taking fiveyears to raise a series A.
Like that is a lot of focus andresilience that's needed to get
over a finish line like that.
So I yeah, how are you doing?
And in turn, how do you takethat and um and help your team?
(40:38):
And what do you what do youguide them towards?
Theo Terris (40:41):
Yeah, I think one of the things that we kind of
pride ourselves the most on overthe last five years is the
essentially how little turnoverwe've had in the business.
So I think we've only had oneor two folks leave Uncle Arnie's
to go to other companies overthe last couple of years.
So we've done a good jobcreating a healthy company
culture.
(41:01):
In terms of my businesspartners, I've known them and
been business partners with themfor the last decade, well
before we got into the hemp orcannabis beverage world.
We're entrepreneurs, we'reexcited about this category,
we're excited about buildingthis category.
I think one of the challengesthat we faced this year,
specific, specifically evenbefore the announcement or
(41:22):
before our Series A, is we'vereally kind of grown the
company.
We finished 2024, I think, with19 full-time employees.
We're at about close to 60 atthe moment.
And we've really tried tostrengthen every single business
unit of the of the company.
On the operation side, Jimmy,my business partner, was just
really just him for the firstfour years.
(41:43):
And now he's got uh a nationaloperations manager that deals
with all of our manufacturingpartners, a director of
operations, a procurementmanager, supply chain, quality
control, uh, regulatory side ofthings, the same on the
financial side, the same on themarketing side.
That was something that we'vehad a great brand for the last,
(42:03):
you know, four, five, six years,but we've never really had a
proper marketing strategy.
So we brought in uh a reallyseasoned marketer, a guy named
Brian Meshzebsky, worked atDiagio for a bunch of years.
More recently was at High Rise.
Um, he was the CMO over atSweetwater before they were sold
to Tilray.
So I think we've done a goodjob uh bringing in the right
(42:23):
leaders that are you knowmanaging their teams and
building up the right strategiesum for each individual
division.
Ben Larson (42:30):
Wow.
I talk to you guys all thetime, and I had no idea you had
gotten up to 60 people.
That that's incredible.
This industry really tests you.
We we talk about the waves, thethe unpredictability.
How do you stay agile and andscrappy and balance out with
(42:51):
scaling and growing your teamlike you have?
Like that that that's prettywild growth.
But still, at the end of theday, this this category, this
industry still very much feelslike a startup.
Theo Terris (43:02):
Yeah, I think for us, just it's my human nature,
it's the same with my businesspartners to get really involved.
We don't like micromanaging atall, but we really want to know
what's going on in every singlemarket and what we can do to
improve the market.
That's part of the reason whyI've been on this couple
week-long tour to actually getin the weeds, go to the stores,
speak with the retailers, speakwith consumers, understand
(43:24):
competition, try to figure outnew SKUs that we should launch.
I think it's super important tocontinue to be scrappy because
although we've been at this forfive or six years, I really see
this as top of the first inningstill.
There's a long way for thisindustry to grow.
So it's important for us tostay lean, to stay scrappy, to
be deep in the in the weeds ofit all.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:44):
So while you're in this staying lean and
scrappy place, I I know becauseI've helped and seen a lot of
companies go through thefundraising process.
Part of that is also aboutreally putting some aspirations
on the board about who you wantto be, where you want to go,
making some level of predictionabout what the next couple of
years might look like.
And so I'd love for you toshare with us what you're
(44:07):
working towards at Uncle Arnie'sover the next couple of years
and where you think this is allgoing.
Theo Terris (44:13):
Yeah, I mean, our goal is to be the number one THC
beverage company in the US.
I think we're on a good path todoing that.
As long as we continue toexecute in the existing markets
that we're in, as well as expandwith the right distribution
partners, continue to build,build out the right sales and
marketing team.
I think we're on a good path tobeing a market leader, whether
we're the number one, the numbertwo, that's that's our
(44:35):
aspiration.
So we've proven success both onthe rec side and on the hemp
side.
I think in the kind of coremarkets that we are that we're
in, both on the rec and hempsides, we're either the top
brand or within the top two orthree.
So we don't like to be numbertwo, we don't like to be number
three in any market.
So it's really trying to workwith our distribution partners,
(44:55):
build out the right sales team,and prove that we can be a
market leader in every statethat we're in.
So I think that starts withCalifornia on the rec side.
It's proving ourselves in inMinnesota, in Illinois, and New
Jersey, some of these other kindof core markets that we're in
on the hemp side as well.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:11):
I love the confidence.
Number two is not good enough.
Ben Larson (45:14):
Yes, I love that.
Theo Terris (45:15):
Oh, yeah.
We're we're yeah, the the thewhole team is ultra, ultra
competitive.
Ben Larson (45:21):
So yeah, I love it.
More broader, I'm gonna keeppulling on this thread of
predictions, anyway.
I thought that was a greatquestion.
What about for the market as awhole, Theo?
What do you anticipate some ofthe major headlines being in the
in the next 12 months?
Like what can the people not inthe space look forward to to
seeing happening?
Theo Terris (45:41):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be one on the distribution
side, which we touched on atthis point.
Obviously, the Molsa network,the A B network has kind of
jumped headfirst into thecategory over the last year or
so.
Johnson Brothers is like thelargest wine and spirits
distributor.
I think they're the numberfour, the number five largest at
this point, um, has jumped intothe category.
(46:03):
But I do think that we're gonnasee Reyes, Southern
breakthrough, RNDC, I think justjumped into a couple states as
well.
So I think that's gonna startwith the distribution side.
I think on the brand side,we're gonna see, you know, some
major, major players enter thespace um either with their
existing brands or create newbrands over the next 12 to 24
(46:24):
months as well.
Um, so I think those betweendistribution between the largest
brands.
And then I know Anna Ray, youtouched on the whole target
thing uh to begin the thepodcast here as well.
I think it's gonna be dominoeffects.
So I don't know who's gonna benext.
I don't know if it's gonna beCostco.
We're hearing stuff aboutWalmart.
Um, Circle K is is is alreadyin the game, and they're work
(46:46):
we're expanding with themactually shortly in North
Carolina, South Carolina, uh,and looking at a couple other
states.
So I think we're gonna start tosee some of these major, major
retailers get into the space,either with smaller pilots like
like Target just did, um, oracross as many states as
possible.
AnnaRae Grabstein (47:03):
With those larger retailers, what have you
found to be their appetite forunderstanding the compliance
requirements and and thedifference in the state by state
kind of compliance, which atthe beginning, when when hemp
was first launching, peoplewould say, oh, that's the big
difference between cannabis andhemp is that there isn't a
(47:24):
state-by-state patchwork.
There is now.
And so for a retailer likeCircle K or Target to think
about a multi-state strategy,they have to understand like
what are the dosage requirementsand in each of these states.
It's not rocket science, it'sjust very reasonable.
But have you found that asyou're talking to those groups
that they have that figured outor are they looking for you to
(47:45):
answer those questions andexplain it to them?
Theo Terris (47:47):
I think it goes, it's kind of twofold.
Like one, they've got their owncompliance teams and lawyers
and they're looking heavily intoit.
Um, most of these largerretailers are only starting in
states where there's a fullregulatory framework in place
already, such as Target inMinnesota.
Um, if there's no regulationsin place, then a lot of the
(48:08):
retailers aren't divingheadfirst in yet, or they're
doing it on a smaller scale.
And I think on the the same ason the distribution side, where
a lot of these larger nationaldistributors are either looking
at states that are like green,gray, and red.
The green states will be those,you know, the phase one states
that there's full clarity inwhere they can go in with
confidence that, yeah, the regsare going to keep changing, as
(48:29):
Ben mentioned with, you know,Minnesota.
Hopefully they'll be full-onregulations in Ohio over the
next 60 or 90 days as well.
But um, I'm seeing the samewith distribution as and the
same with retailers that they'rekind of picking those green
states to start, that there'sfull regulations in place.
The grayer states, maybethey'll go in um with a little
bit less risk.
And then any state that's likefully banned, they're obviously
(48:51):
going to stay away from for now.
Um, both on the on the largerretail side, there's no point of
these larger retailers riskingout risking their overall
business and the same with thelarger distributors.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:02):
Yeah, it it sure does make a good argument
for why regulation is helpful.
And um it it takes me back tojust like, yeah, thinking about
like my early days of evengetting into cannabis and and
how I understood pretty quicklythat a legal framework created
the stability that that wasneeded for businesses to be able
to plan or figure it out.
And yeah, without that,especially a very large company
(49:26):
that has diversified businesslines, it just isn't worth it
for them to experiment in thesame way as it maybe is more
okay for a dispensary becausethey're focused in that one
channel.
So yeah, really, reallyinteresting point.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
It is the end of the hour andit's time for our last oh wow.
(49:46):
Yeah, it just it went so fast.
So, Theo, this is your chance.
It's your final message for ourlisteners, advice, call to
action, closing thought.
Mike is yours.
Theo Terris (49:55):
Yeah, I would say, as I mentioned before, I entered
this.
I first tried a cannabisbeverage about six years ago.
I wasn't a huge cannabisconsumer myself.
I didn't have amazingexperiences uh smoking or vaping
or with edibles.
And when I first tried abeverage, I was just shocked at
how good it tasted, the onsettime.
(50:16):
And it was one of those momentswhere I was like, oh my
goodness, this is the future ofthe future consumption method of
cannabis.
Not that smoking or vaping orother form factors were going
away, but I just had this gutfeeling, probably the same, Ben,
that you had when you when youcame up with the idea, when you
and Harold came up with the ideabehind Vertosa.
And I didn't know if it wasgoing to be in 2019 when I tried
(50:40):
that beverage, 2030, 2050, or100 years down the road, but I
knew that this would be thefuture of cannabis.
And after a lot of those no'sthat I mentioned that we kept
hearing in 2020, 2021, 2022, um,I think five years in, six
years in, we're really startingto see what this category can
look like.
And I I've never been asexcited as I am now about one,
(51:01):
about Uncle Arnie's, but twoabout the greater industry.
So just super excited aboutwhere things are gonna go over
the next 12, 24, 36 months andum happy to be, you know,
working alongside such amazingpartners like Ben and the whole
team over at Vertosa.
Ben Larson (51:15):
Theo, uh, can't thank you enough, obviously, for
the shout-outs, but also fortaking the time on your road
trip after being in Vegas lastnight, red eyeing and and now
sitting in the car in Indiana.
Of course.
AnnaRae Grabstein (51:28):
Um, were you like sliding him five dollar
bills to get me on the show?
We didn't talk about that aheadof time.
Ben Larson (51:34):
It's uh there may have been a couple drinks that
were purchased for him lastnight, but uh you know for sure,
for sure.
No, but so much appreciation toyou and the team, uh Roberto,
uh software we saw last night,Jimmy, just uh your your whole
team's amazing.
All 60 of them.
Theo Terris (51:53):
Yep.
Thank you.
Ben Larson (51:54):
All right, man.
Well, take it easy.
Good luck on the road trip, andand we'll we'll talk to you
soon.
Theo Terris (51:59):
Thank you so much for joining.
Great.
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
Thanks, Anna Ray.
Thanks, Ben.
Ben Larson (52:04):
Amazing.
Anna Ray, wow, that that hourdid go quickly.
Uh still awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:10):
I want to do a Stein holding competition with
some Uncle Artie.
Yes.
Uh can you set that up for me?
Yeah, I'm ready to go.
Ben Larson (52:19):
Again, just not in Vegas.
It's still not coasteringcasinos around here.
All right, folks.
Thank you for watching,listening, engaging online.
Thank you to our team atVirtosa one more time.
And Wolf Meyer, and of course,our producer, Eric Rossetti.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please drop us a review on
(52:39):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, orwherever you listen to this
show.
Thank you, thank you, thankyou.
And as always, folks, staycurious, stay informed, and keep
your spirits high.
Until next time.
That's the show.
In some states, you can have a two milligram
serving size.
In other state, you can have afive, a ten, a fifteen, a
twenty.
And I think in Tennessee thatthe serving size is up to 15
milligrams.
So you the brand can definewhat the serving size actually
is.
Ben Larson (00:21):
Hey everybody.
Welcome to Las Vegas! I mean erepisode 109 of High Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson, and with me asalways is Anna Ray Grabstein.
Uh we're recording Tuesday,October 14th, 2025, and we have
an amazing show for you today.
One of my best friends in theindustry, Theo Terrace, is going
(00:43):
to be joining us from UncleArnie's.
Find out where he's tuning infrom.
Before we get there, Anna Ray,our things back at home.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:52):
They're so good.
It was a super fun weekend.
I accidentally stumbled into anOktoberfest celebration and got
volunteered by some friends tobe in an all-women's stein
holding competition.
Um, which How many do hold?
It's just it was one.
The idea is it's like it'sreally glass stein.
(01:14):
It's a liter of beer, and youhave to lock your elbow and hold
it out like at a right angleuntil you just can't hold it
anymore.
You know, I thought becauseI've been doing all this weight
training that I was like, oh, Iam definitely winning the stein
holding competition.
And um, it was actually a lotharder than I expected.
(01:34):
I did not place in the topthree.
I think I was like number sixout of about 30.
Um, I did get an enormous freebeer out of it, which wasn't
really that meaningful to me.
It did just kind of it was itwas like a really fun beverage
um inspired kind of celebrationthat got me thinking about kind
of like what this space could beif we actually let ourselves
(01:56):
have a little fun sometimes.
Ben Larson (01:58):
So yeah, yeah.
The theme of our episode,beverage celebration.
Wait, so how long must you holda stein at 90 degrees to place
sixth place?
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:10):
I I wish that I had kept track of the time.
It felt like a really longtime, but it was probably like
three minutes.
It was so it was at this placecalled Brewster's Beer Garden
that's like this big outdoorspace that has this big
Oktoberfest celebration, and allthe staff was wearing
leaderhosen, and they had umlike a pretty hilarious band
(02:32):
called the polka geists, likepoltergeists, but they were
doing polka and um yodeling.
And um they gathered all, itwas like there was a women's and
a men's, but obviously Iparticipated in the women's one
and they got a big circle, andwe all faced each other in a
circle and held out our arm at90 degrees.
(02:53):
And you know, what'sinteresting is within all the
weight training that I've beendoing, that my trainer always
tells me not to lock my joints.
So I'm not allowed to lock myelbow or lock my arm.
But in the Steinholdingcompetition, they forced us to
lock our elbows.
And I think that that was partof it is that like my muscles
weren't attuned to having alocked elbow.
(03:14):
I wanted to trick it a littlebit.
Um, it's um one of thosethings.
I realize that I hate to lose.
So entering a competition thatI did not win was a real
disappointment.
But at the same time, I thinkthat I won just by playing a
lot.
So did Rocco witness this orwhat um the family was there,
(03:36):
friends were there, and actuallymy my friend was placed in the
top three.
So shout out to Becky Hagler,who yeah, placed in the top
three.
Ben Larson (03:46):
Uh awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (03:47):
And um, you also, though, have been in a
competitive place.
You've been in Vegas throwingdown gambling, right?
Ben Larson (03:55):
Yeah, that that part has not been too competitive.
The house, the house hasdefinitely been the all-star.
But yeah, an October fest ofsorts, I suppose.
The National Beer WholesalersAssociation conference.
Massive.
Old habits break hard.
I'm staying at the Cosmo, butthe the event's actually being
held at Caesars, which is twohotels down, which everyone
(04:16):
knows is about a mile away.
But yeah, it's it's it's wildto see how far the hemp beverage
category has come over the lastyear.
You know, we were a glimmer ofhope uh at last year's MBWA.
Uh, my team attended last year,and this year it just seems
that THC is on display.
(04:37):
It was on the slide deck of thekeynote.
It's been the buzz of the show,and there are booths sprinkled
throughout the three expo floor.
So very exciting.
We held a co-hosted event lastnight with the countermeasures
corp team, and that was just ablast.
(04:57):
There's just so many cool eventspaces in in Vegas.
We we had this speakeasy, youknow, it just looked like it's
called Caspians at Caesars.
It looks like just a normal,normal hotel bar, and then you
go through the painting, andthen there's this whole
speakeasy that's like 10 timesbigger in the back.
So that was a lot of fun.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:16):
Awesome.
I love that.
I think this all laddersperfectly into our guest.
Um, but let's quickly just rundown two news stories that I
think we'll we'll be able toweave into the conversation.
There was big news in the THCbeverage world this week.
Target began selling THCinfused beverages at 10 of their
(05:37):
stores in Minnesota.
Yeah, huge.
And and the state even approvedall 72 of Target stores in
Minnesota to sell theseproducts.
But it's it's unclear whatTarget's plan is if they're
gonna roll them out to all ofthem.
But the state does require aregistration.
And there were there were 10 uhbrands or so that were included
(05:58):
um in this launch.
Ben Larson (06:00):
Those brands Birdie, Can, Giggly, High Seltzer,
Indeed, Stigma, Surly, TrailMagic, Wonder, Wild, and Wink.
So yeah, shout out to thosebrands.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:11):
Yeah, congratulations.
Big stuff, big news this weekfor sure.
Were people talking about thisin Vegas?
Ben Larson (06:17):
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah, definitely.
AnnaRae Grabstein (06:19):
Or were they talking about anything else?
Yeah.
Ben Larson (06:22):
It's it's just a lot of excitement.
You know, there's like Imentioned, there's a lot of beer
wholesalers here.
I was meeting with Top Brass atthe biggest names in in beer
wholesaler industry.
This is the most excitingcategory that they've ever seen.
Literally, like ever seen.
And so anyone that's stilldiscounting THC beverages, they
just need their head out of thesand because the the people want
(06:46):
it, the retailers want it, thedistributors want it, and it's
happening.
So this was just kind of icingon the cake, just very uh
indicative of of the times.
And and interesting though, youknow, there's a lot of turmoil
in Minnesota in particular whenit comes to shifting
regulations.
And so it's this dichotomy thatwe live in.
Rules are changing, regulatorsare trying to wrap their arms
(07:08):
around it, and it's two stepsforward, one step back in a lot
of cases.
I think it only helps theconversation to draw more
attention to it and make peopleactually put in responsible
regulations instead of justknee-jerk reactions, like what
we're seeing potentially inOhio.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:27):
I'm particularly excited from like
the data perspective for apublic company like Target to be
doing this, so that we canreally start to get clear
insight over what theopportunity is.
So, like when a store brings inTHC beverages like Target, what
is the opportunity there?
How much volume can be moved,how much revenue can be
captured, how many consumers arepurchasing and coming back
(07:50):
again and again.
And and the more we get theseuh really mature and experienced
retailers to be selling thecategory, we're gonna be getting
like all kinds of new consumerinsight.
So I'm I'm really excited aboutthat.
Ben Larson (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, totally exciting.
You know, we we've had the datafor years coming out of
dispensaries, you know, one totwo percent was the the data
that we were we're forced tohear year after year.
And then dispensaries all of asudden, like John Halper from
Top 10 Liquors claiming 15% ofhis alcohol sales with 3% of the
square footage.
(08:22):
And now Target is a completelydifferent landscape, so it's not
a liquor store.
So we're gonna see like whatthe sell-through is in these
kind of mega store supermarketshelves.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:32):
But what if Target could capture the same
percentage of THC beverage salesas a percentage of their
overall adult beverages the waythat John Helper stores do?
I mean, that would be reallyamazing.
So yeah, we'll see.
Ben Larson (08:47):
And what if uh what if people maybe start to believe
my crazy belief that we can getto $50 billion in in market
cap?
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:56):
Hey, all you got to do is put the number on
the board, figure out how towork backwards, right?
Ben Larson (09:00):
Exactly.
I love reverse engineering.
AnnaRae Grabstein (09:02):
Reverse engineer it.
Um well, so you mentioned Ohio.
You also mentioned people thathave their heads in the sand.
I guess it could be arguedputting those two comments
together that Ohio governor MikeDeWine maybe has his head in
the sand.
He uh just issued a ban on umall hemp derived THC products,
(09:22):
including drinks, gummies, andall other products.
Um it's a 90-day ban on thesale of intoxicating hemp
derived products, but it'sunclear what will happen after
those 90 days.
So we're we're in a weirdpurgatory right now in Ohio when
it comes to hemp.
Ben Larson (09:40):
Yeah, I think uh we need to make sure that we're
having rational conversations inbetween now and that deadline.
And when I say rational, I meanactually listening to the
policymakers.
Following on my little talk Igave last week at the Ignited
conference, I actually had anice follow-up conversation with
Christine Dempsey at the DCC.
(10:01):
Thank you, Christine.
I really appreciate the theopen conversation and the
candor.
You know, I can't talk aboutthe details that we discussed,
but all I gotta say is like cometo the table, speak honestly,
like hear what the regulator isopen to, and I think we'll find
some rational pathways uh thatdon't overreach the desire of
the state, but maybe actuallydoes create channels for for
(10:23):
THC.
AnnaRae Grabstein (10:24):
Well, okay, more on that later, I guess.
I've have biting my nailscuriosity, but we'll we'll we'll
talk offline.
Okay, let's let's bring onTheo.
Theo Terras is the CEO of UncleArnie's, one of the fastest
growing beverage brands in theUS.
Before founding Uncle Arnie's,Theo built and ran successful
(10:45):
video advertising business.
He is known for brandstorytelling, digital strategy,
consumer engagement.
He is a creative entrepreneurat his core and is excited to be
building a brand withculturally resonant mindset and
lasting impact.
And Theo is a friend of both ofours, and we're just excited to
(11:05):
come on and celebrate hisrecent announcement of his big
series, A Rays, and all thegrowth that's ahead for Uncle
Arnie.
So welcome, Theo.
Theo Terris (11:12):
Thank you, guys.
Thank you, Ben.
Thank you, Anna Ray.
Excited to be here.
Yeah.
AnnaRae Grabstein (11:16):
Where are you?
It looks like you're in thecar.
Theo Terris (11:18):
Yes, I am currently in the car in Indianapolis, uh,
Indiana.
I was with Ben actually lastnight in uh in Vegas at that
party.
You're teleporting, man.
Yeah, it was uh that's if Ilook a little tired, I was I was
telling Ben and Anna Ray justbefore this.
I'm running on about two orthree hours of sleep.
(11:38):
So hang hanging in there.
Ben Larson (11:40):
Life of a life of a CEO.
Uh yeah, man, what's going on?
I did just hang out with you inVegas.
It was a great time last night.
Now you're across the country.
Like, what's happening in yourworld?
Why are you on the move?
Yeah, what's on the schedule?
Theo Terris (11:56):
Yeah, it's been a busy couple days, a busy couple
weeks ahead, starting a two orthree-week tour where I'm going
to like 11 states, I think, 10or 11 states, starting
California, went to Nevada.
Um, the plan was actually, andAnna Ray just mentioned the
executive order in Ohio.
So I took a red-eye flight toCincinnati where I was planning
(12:17):
on being for a day or two, whichdoesn't make sense uh for the
for the next 60 or 90 days inIndiana, headed to Illinois and
Wisconsin, and then I'll be onthe East Coast in New York, New
Jersey, Connecticut, uh,Maryland, and then North
Carolina as well.
So excited for the next coupleof weeks.
AnnaRae Grabstein (12:37):
What are you doing in all these states?
Meeting with customers or yourteam?
What does it look like?
Theo Terris (12:44):
Yeah, it's kind of a combination of meeting with
our distribution partners,meeting with our sales team,
being out in the market.
So today I'm actually with oneof our uh Ohio reps that came
for a blitz for the next coupledays here uh in Indiana.
And then we've got two reps inthe market in Indiana, one of
which just started like a month,month and a half ago.
(13:05):
So I'd never met her face toface.
So just seeing the market forthe day, spending time with
them.
Um, I was here maybe threemonths ago or four months ago,
but a lot has actually changed.
A lot more brands coming to thespace, a lot.
Some of the bigger retailershave started selling temp temp
derived drinks.
So just excited to see what'schanged in such a you know
short, short time frame.
(13:26):
Awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (13:27):
So the reason I said to Ben about six weeks
ago, we got to get Theo on hereis because you guys had just
announced a seven and a halfmillion dollar Series A raise.
And it was co-led by MindsetCapital and Delta Emerald
Ventures.
And you also through thatbrought on a strategic investor
onto your board who is afounding partner of Boston Beer.
(13:49):
And this just felt like suchgreat news in the sector.
And we often talk about thatgood companies can raise
capital, which is a bit of adifferent narrative than what we
hear people say all the time isthat there's no equity capital
for cannabis companies at allanymore.
And you kind of proved usright.
So thank you.
And uh we're curious to justlearn about that and and want to
(14:15):
know like how you pulled offthis raise and what is this
raise gonna do for you guys?
Theo Terris (14:19):
Yeah, totally.
So just to be clear, it took usalmost five years to close our
series A.
It didn't happen overnight.
And I probably heard, I don'tknow, a thousand, two thousand,
five thousand no's beforegetting the yes, but super
excited that Mindset, DeltaEmerald, Harry Rubin, the
strategic investor.
These were actually all threeexisting investors or investor
(14:42):
groups in Uncle Arnie's.
Our first strategic investorwas Harry Rubin and the Boston
Beer kind of group, let's say,that came in about two years
ago.
So that was our first strategicround of funding.
Shortly after that, both Ianand and Aaron from Delta Emerald
and Mindset Global had investedin the company.
And then about yeah, six orseven months ago, the
(15:04):
opportunity presented itself.
We've been growing quitequickly, both on the
recreational side and on thehemp side as well.
Um, so I think it just happenedkind of naturally where we
approached Ian, we approachedAaron, and vice versa.
They were excited about ourbusiness, the growth that
they're that we were seeing onboth the rec and hemp side.
And this was really just tofuel more growth across the
(15:27):
country on both the rec and hempside.
Ben Larson (15:29):
And Theo, let's let's talk about the growth a
little bit, like the brand.
Because we we had Avon a coupleyears ago, and we were talking
about how you guys just swamupstream, and like we're gonna
we're gonna cater to the thelegacy consumer.
We're gonna build a differentbrand, we're not gonna build for
the soccer moms uh that prettymuch every other brand is is
(15:52):
building for.
Has the sentiment changedaround that strategy from the
investment side of the table?
Have people under finallyunderstood what it means to to
be addressing that that thatconsumer?
Theo Terris (16:06):
Yeah, I think for for us to begin with, and again,
we started this company sixyears ago at this point, and we
started in the recreationalchannel.
And before we even jumped intothe rec space, we wanted to
understand who the consumer wasthat was going to a dispensary,
what they were looking for, andwe wanted to understand why
beverage back in 2019 or early2020 was 0.1% of the overall
(16:29):
market and what we could do tochange it.
And it really wasn't rocketscience.
We kept hearing kind of thesame thing that beverages didn't
taste particularly good.
There were no great emulsionproviders out there like
Fertosa.
Shout out to Ben and his team.
Beverages were overpriced atthe time.
And there was no brand thatreally resonated to that legacy
(16:50):
consumer, the consumer that wasgoing into dispensary.
So we made it our concertedeffort really just to come out
with a really high qualityproduct that tasted really good,
that hit you well, that wasaffordable, that was accessible,
and more than anything, wasreally fun.
So we pride ourselves on, youknow, being a fun brand, going
to the dispensary, going to awine or liquor store, bar or
restaurant, seeing thepackaging, seeing the branding,
(17:12):
um, and really having itresonate with you.
So I think that's appliednicely both across the
dispensary channel.
And then also as we've goneinto hemp as well, people are
looking for that.
It's a kind of a crazy worldthat we're living in today.
I don't think we're necessarilygoing after that soccer mom per
se.
We're just trying to go after,you know, someone that's looking
to have a fun time, someonethat's looking to enjoy the
(17:35):
actual taste of the products, doit at a at an afford at an at
an affordable price as well.
So yeah, I don't think we'regeared specifically to the
soccer mom.
We're not geared specificallyto that legacy consumer.
We're just trying to, you know,come out with a product that is
fun, that's accessible, that'stasty.
Ben Larson (17:52):
Yeah, but to depress you a little bit on it, right?
It was a barrier for investmentin the earlier days.
There were investors that wouldpurely be like, Oh, yeah,
that's not the future.
Yep.
And and but now, like Mindset,Aaron Edelheit, and and Ian
Dominguez, uh, Delta Emerald,they're now getting behind this.
So sentiment has changed, whichis is great to hear.
(18:13):
Yeah, you guys.
Theo Terris (18:15):
Yep.
Again, the sentiment changedmostly because what's happening
on the hemp side, just the totaladjustable market, um, some of
the the stuff that you werequoting earlier, like 15 to 20
percent of top 10 sales in awine and liquor store is coming
from hemp derived drinks justtwo years in.
We've done well on thedispensary side, but Ben, you're
(18:36):
in California.
I'm mostly in California, NRA,you're the same.
And it's grown from that 0.1%in 2019 or 2020, but it's pretty
much capped at that 2%.
And we're continuing to growbecause we're coming out with
other with new high-qualityproducts.
We're keeping the prices, youknow, competitive and low.
There's less brands coming intothe the rec space, but I think
(18:57):
what most investors are lookingat and the upside is actually
what's happening on the hempside, which just didn't exist
really in 2020, 2021, and thethe first part of 2022.
AnnaRae Grabstein (19:07):
I think it's interesting.
You're you're talking aboutkind of how you went from
regulated cannabis into hemp.
And a lot of the beverages thatstarted in regulated cannabis
with you abandoned the spacealtogether and have just decided
to go all in on hemp because ofof what was able to be
(19:28):
accomplished there that couldn'tbe accomplished in the
regulated space.
And and you've you've continuedto maintain your position in in
some regulated cannabis marketswhile focusing on hemp.
Tell us about what theopportunity is in hemp that is
different, similar from fromregulated cannabis.
Like what's the difference thatyou're seeing?
Theo Terris (19:48):
How I see it is in the next, I don't know if it's
gonna be three years, fiveyears, ten years down the road,
there's really gonna be twochannels that you can buy hemp
derived beverages or cannabisbeverages.
There's gonna be the dispensarychannel, which by and large,
the consumer that's still gonnago in there is that, or the
consumer that's gonna bepurchasing the most at a
dispensary is still gonna bethat daily cannabis consumer
(20:10):
that's going.
They're looking for affordableproducts, they're looking for
flour, they're looking forvapes, they're looking for
edibles, they're look maybethey're looking for beverages,
but on the beverage side, stillit's gonna be that high dose
beverage.
So to this day, 90% plus of oursales are still coming from
that 100 milligram drink.
I think around 10% or so arecoming from 10 milligrams or
(20:32):
lower on that side.
And then the hemp derivedchannel, what we're starting to
see in more and more states thatare fully regulating hemp,
they're putting a container capof three milligrams in the case
of Connecticut, five milligramsin the case of states like Rhode
Island, 10 milligrams in the incases like the state of
Minnesota.
So we really, really see thetwo like not really competing
(20:53):
with one another, more low dosefor hemp drive drinks and you
know, higher dose drinks beingin dispensaries.
AnnaRae Grabstein (21:00):
And and I know that with Target's
announcement, they announcedthat five milligram is the most
that any of their products thatthey're selling, at least with
this initial launch, uh, ishappening, even though in
Minnesota, where they'reoperating, 10 milligrams is an
option.
Do you do you think that'sthat's a mistake?
Like what what are you seeingwith consumer behavior on the
(21:22):
hemp drink side as it pertainsto dosage?
Theo Terris (21:25):
Yeah, no, I think it's a smart move on their end
to, I mean, the fact thatthey're even doing a pilot, to
your point, even if it's 10stores just in Minnesota, that
is a huge, huge win for thecategory.
I think it's a starting point.
I think it's smart of them tostart with something on the
lower dose side.
Do I think that they'll, asthey've as they continue to
(21:45):
expand either within Minnesotaor outside of Minnesota, I think
they will probably start toexplore something a little bit
higher.
Probably in Minnesota, they'llthey'll accept a 10 milligram
drink.
I don't know if it's going tobe over the next six months,
year, year and a half, but Ithink it would probably be a
mistake on their end not to toat least allow 10 milligram
drinks.
From the data that we've seenthat we have access to from our
(22:08):
sales data as well, 10 milligramdrinks still make up probably
80% of the overall Minnesotamarket.
So um, they're definitelymissing out on uh from a sales
perspective.
But they're a big, to yourpoint, publicly traded company.
They don't want to take somemassive risk to begin with.
Maybe the consumer that's goinginto Target isn't your typical
(22:29):
cannabis consumer.
So they want to, you know, lowand slow to start, and maybe
they'll expand from there.
Ben Larson (22:36):
With these these major retailers coming on board,
conferences like what we wereattending yesterday and today,
the MBWA, what is yourphilosophy on distribution?
Because THC Beverages is inthis unique place where you have
the beer wholesalers cateringto the business, you have the
wine and spirits wholesalersalso supporting it, which is
(22:59):
just a really uniqueopportunity.
So how's Uncle Arnie'sapproaching this when there's so
many options when you're whenyou're looking at each state?
Theo Terris (23:07):
Before we go into any state, we really try to
understand the opportunity.
We we try to understand ifUncle Arnie's will fit well into
the market if we have the rightproducts, if we have the right
proposition, let's say, with tounderstand what competition
looks like.
In some states, like in thecase of Minnesota, there are a
lot of distributors on thealcohol side, on the wine and
liquor side, and on the beerside, to your point.
(23:28):
In some smaller states, youonly have a couple small,
mid-size craft beer distros thathave entered the space.
Um, so we're taking, I wouldn'tsay a little bit of a different
approach than a lot of the hempbeverage brands that are just
trying to pick wine and liquordistributor or more so like a
beer wholesaler.
We're trying to understand themarket.
We're trying to meet all thedistributors, understand who's
(23:49):
the best partner, who's buyinginto the category, who's setting
up a dedicated THC sales team.
We don't want to be one of the20 or 50 brands that they're
throwing at the wall and hopingthat that one of them sticks.
It's more trying to find withsomeone that really aligns with
our values, that believes in thebrand, that believes in us,
that will work alongside us.
Um, so it's really not kind ofa one size fits all.
(24:11):
So in some instances, we'vegone with the A B network, in
some instances we're withJohnson Brothers, like here in
Indiana, in other instanceswe're with the Molson network.
So it's it's it looks a littlebit different in every state,
but that's been our philosophytill now.
But to your point, and youmentioned it before I jumped on,
it seems like the largerdistributors are getting closer
(24:34):
to inching into the category.
So I think that's probablygonna be the next big thing come
the beginning or middle of 2026when the the races of the
world, the breakthroughs of theworld, the sub-ins of the world
dive into the category.
Ben Larson (24:48):
I'm gonna I'm gonna press a little bit on the um the
portfolio size like strategy,you know.
Not not that you're adistributor yourself, but do you
have kind of a perspective onwhat the optimal portfolio size
is for these distributors?
Because we've always talkedabout it's like we we can't sit
solo on a shelf because thenwe're not a category, it's just
(25:11):
a single product.
But too many obviously createsa ton of dilution.
So like maybe 20 or 30 brandsis way too much.
Like, what's what's the sweetspot for really garnering the
the consumer's attention butgiving the brand the the optimal
opportunity to shine?
Theo Terris (25:27):
I would say around 10 brands or so.
Um, again, differentiatedbrands.
Maybe you have one that's likewe've got most of our drinks or
all of our drinks on the hempside today are non-carbonated,
very fruity, either teas,lemonade, stuff of that nature.
You want to have a coupleseltzers, a couple sodas, maybe
a brand that's focused just onshots or just on the 750
(25:49):
milliliters if the if the statepermits.
But yeah, certainly anythingover like 15 to 20, I think it's
there's no way for adistributor to a distributor to
focus on that many brands and doit well.
So I think the distributors, atleast the ones that we've had
really good success in thus far.
(26:10):
One good example is in NewJersey, where with a distributor
called Allied.
Um they're one of the largestalcohol distributors uh in the
state, actually, if not thelargest, I think them and
Fedway.
They've built out a dedicatedTHC team, both on the sales
side, on the brand ambassadorside, on the merchandising side
as well.
We've worked really closelywith them.
(26:30):
I think we were the first brandthat they launched back in May.
So I think they're they're theyseem to be taking things
seriously more so than thanmost.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:40):
What advice can you give to other brands
that might be listening to thisabout getting into distribution
relationships, lessons learned,things that you have figured out
through maybe changes if youhave changed, things like that?
Theo Terris (26:54):
Yeah, I would say our philosophy, and this was the
same on the recreational side,where the first, and Ben, you
know this, Anna, I thank you aswell, for all of 2020 through
2022 into into 2023.
So the first three plus yearsof our business were focused
solely on the rec market, solelyon California.
(27:14):
As you guys know, California isthe largest market, it's the
most competitive market, it'swhere brands are born.
We wanted to put all of ourtime, money, and energy into
that market before even lookingat any other market.
And we took that same kind ofphilosophy into hemp as well,
where we entered the the firstmarket we entered was the the
Mecca of Hemp Beverage, which isMinnesota.
(27:37):
And we wanted to enter thatmarket because it was actually
the most saturated market, it'sthe most competitive, and we
wanted to prove ourselves there.
So we ended up partnering withthe A B network on the
distribution side.
We found really good uhmanufacturers.
I think Ben and Ryan and theteam over at Fertosa initially
connected us with Surly.
Um, they've done a phenomenaljob on the manufacturing side.
(27:59):
So for us, it was really likemy advice would be pick one
market, maybe two markets,really get to understand it,
understand if you can win inthat market, prove yourselves
there before trying to spreadinto two, three, five, fifteen,
twenty other markets.
I'm saying there's a lot ofother brands out there.
The last I looked, there werelike a thousand, you know, hemp
(28:20):
beverage brands, but I thinkthere's really only like
probably 15, 20, maybe 30 thathave really proven themselves
across multiple markets.
So I would say I would justadvise to really pick one market
and do that market really wellbefore um before trying to
spread into other markets.
AnnaRae Grabstein (28:38):
Even 12 to 18 months ago, it was still such
an anomaly and exciting to justhave an announcement that one of
these distributors was carryingthese types of products.
And I think that theconversation at that time with
hemp beverages, people weretalking a lot more about direct
to consumer because thereweren't as many pathways to
market, or it was harder to getthese distributors on board.
(29:03):
And now we have lots ofdistributors and some of the
biggest distributors in theworld that are talking about the
category target is sellingthese products.
Is this the the the slow, theslow death of direct to consumer
uh beverage sales?
Theo Terris (29:18):
I wouldn't say it's gonna be uh a complete death,
or I don't know what's gonnahappen with D2C.
Our philosophy was actuallykind of the opposite, where we
focus solely on the retail side,um, both on the rec side and
also as we got into hemp for thefirst, really the first year
give or take.
So we only launchedUnclearney's.com end of fall of
(29:39):
2024 give or take.
So it's been about a year.
Um, we didn't do it in the bestway, we weren't taking it all
that seriously.
Um, it was only about twomonths ago that we brought on a
VP of e com, a guy named MoHassan.
He's done a phenomenal job thusfar.
He rebuilt the entire site.
We've changed uh performanceagencies, email marketing
(29:59):
agencies.
He's 3PL as well, kind of kindof starting everything from
scratch.
I don't think D2C is gonna uhnecessarily go away overnight.
And I think it's great forbrand building, but definitely
the focus for us, and I wouldalso advise that the focus for
any brand really entering thecategory is more so on the
wholesale side than on the D2Cside.
Ben Larson (30:20):
Yeah, yeah, we hear that a lot.
I love what you were sayingabout going deep into states or
regions.
And you know, I've talked to anumber of large brands looking
at the space, potentialacquirers, and what they're
looking at in brands is is theability to show like the resale
power or the repurchase power ofthe brand.
(30:42):
And so really focusing on thatis an important aspect.
When we start to talk aboutmarkets, I also start to think
about form factors becauseagain, THC beverages is one of
those things that's transcendingcategories.
We obviously have the cannedformats, the ready-to-drink
formats.
We also have shots which youguys sell.
(31:03):
Can you talk about that dynamicbetween just how they show up
in the store?
Are they next to each other?
Are they in different spaces inthe store?
And then also, like, what arejust the trends with
distributors or differentretailers in in various states?
Whatever direction you want totake it.
Theo Terris (31:20):
Yeah, so for us, we've got two major products at
the moment.
We've got our cans, which areprimarily in 12-ounce standards
or 12-ounce sleeks.
We've got our two-ounce shotsas well.
Um, generally speaking, theydon't sit side by side.
I was just in a total linebefore uh before jumping on this
podcast.
And it's actually amazing whatthey've been doing.
(31:41):
So they have, I mean, multipleend caps at this point with the
cans and with the 750s.
And then most of the shots aresitting by the counter, which is
great.
It's more of that kind ofimpulse spy where, you know,
next to the fireball, next tothe patron shots, next next to
the little nip.
So I think that that's wherethose the the the two-ounce
shots, you know, should shouldbe sitting versus the the cans,
(32:05):
which really are sitting in inin other parts of the store and
then their own kind of dedicatedend caps.
Ben Larson (32:11):
Amazing.
Theo Terris (32:11):
There's also the 750s, which at least in Total
Wine, they kind of have theirown dedicated end caps as well,
but they're also scatteredaround the wine and liquor kind
of departments as well, um,which is interesting.
AnnaRae Grabstein (32:26):
When you're talking about the store and
being in Total Wine and whatwhat's being merchandised next
to you, it gets me thinking justabout competition in general
and who the customer is.
Is a THC beverage brand likeyours competing with the other
THC beverage brands, or are youcompeting with the other
beverages that are at Total Winegenerally?
(32:47):
And and I wonder, because Ithink that if I was going into
Total Wine, I might be buying abunch of different things and
depends on kind of what I'mfeeling, how how enlivened I am
by some of the merchandisingthat I I might buy that fireball
shot, but I also might buy anUncle Arnie shot.
Ben Larson (33:04):
Please don't buy the fireball shot.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:07):
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know if I've ever had afireball shot.
Theo Terris (33:12):
Those things are flying still, believe me.
The the total line that we werejust in, more people were
buying those fireball shots thananything else in the store.
AnnaRae Grabstein (33:20):
So you're competing with fireball then,
clearly, because you you wantthose fireball customers to try
your stuff, right?
Theo Terris (33:26):
Yeah, I I honestly don't see, at least with the
brand that we have.
And I think we've done a prettygood job kind of carving
ourselves out from being thatfun brand, very flavorful, very
fruity drinks, very affordable,more on the more potent side of
things.
So if there's two and a half orfive or ten milligrams in most
(33:48):
of these stores, we're kind ofsitting in at the 10 milligram
spot, at least for now.
Um, so I don't really see us ascompeting with most of the
other hemp beverage brands outthere.
There are a couple competitorsout there, but by and large, I
think um we just need moreconsumers to gravitate towards
hemp beverages.
Ben Larson (34:05):
So as people gravitate towards hemp
beverages, Theo, beyond doing 11states in 10 days or whatever
you're doing, how do you standapart like to be a top-selling
brand that's attracting capital?
Like what's the secret?
Like how what do brand ownersneed to know as far as like
building that traction andgetting the backing, gaining the
(34:27):
consumer, you know, whatever itis to get category leadership?
Theo Terris (34:31):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I wouldn't pinpoint it to onething.
I think it's really amultifaceted answer where one,
it's building out the right teamacross the entire company,
whether that's on the financialside, the operational side, the
marketing side, the sales sideas well, um, having really
differentiated products and verydifferentiated branding, um,
(34:53):
making sure that you're workingwith the best in class partners
on both on the product side andon the distribution side, um,
making sure that the productsare affordable, at least at this
point.
It's not easy to get consumersto uh to go in and buy something
that's ultra premium if they,especially if they haven't tried
a hemp beverage to begin with.
So I think it's really acombination of the right sales
(35:16):
structure, marketing,distribution, product, uh,
consistency as well.
The fact that, Ben, we'veworked with you guys and the
Vertosa team for the last sixyears.
And I'm not just saying itbecause you're the the one
hosting the podcast, knowingthat we have very stable
products out there that areconsistent, that are tasty, that
are affordable, I think goes areally long way.
(35:36):
Um and really just forming goodrelationships with our
distribution partners, makingsure that our sales team is out
actually out there in themarket.
I would say out of the, I don'tknow, 15 or 20 brands that I'm
seeing in most of the storeshere in Indiana, I haven't seen
other sales reps around themarket at all.
The same thing when I was herethree months ago.
So I think one of the thingsthat we're trying to do is just
(35:58):
be a little bit more aggressivewhen it comes to HR, when it
comes to sales.
We've got two folks in Indianaalone, which I think is two more
than most of the other brandsout there.
But it's it's making a bigdifference when you go and you
meet retailers and they'vesampled the product and that
they know a little bit about thecompany.
They know what the producttastes like.
So they can advocate for itwhen consumers come in.
AnnaRae Grabstein (36:21):
You're you're talking about the ground game
of really having a presence inthe market, which is so, so
important.
But there's also so much talkin the category about the need
for education so that the peoplewho are working in the stores
are able to explain the productsto consumers that are coming in
and that the consumers have theeducation that they need.
What does that look like beyondsales reps?
(36:43):
Are there trainings?
Is like how do we educate thepeople who work in the stores in
an effective way so that theycan be the ambassadors of the
products when you're not thereto explain them to the consumer?
Theo Terris (36:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, one of the first thingsthat we did as a company when we
pivoted or when we went intohemp as well as on the rec side
is we appointed one of our firsthires, maybe the first sales
hire that we had at the companynamed Gabby Vale.
She was running our Californiasales.
She's super, superknowledgeable on the cannabis
(37:16):
industry as a whole.
She lives in California.
I don't know, Ben, if you'veprobably met her, NRA.
I don't know if you've met her.
Um, so she's actually runningour education across the entire
company.
I think we're probably the, asfar as I know, the only hemp
beverage company or cannabiscompannis beverage company that
has a dedicated educational teamthat is with one, our own
(37:37):
employees.
So every new employee thatstarts goes through a whole
training program on cannabis, onhemp, on THC, on the side
effects, on the pros and cons,how to sell it, how to market
it, everything of that nature.
And we give that same type ofeducation to the retailers, to
consumers, to our distributionpartners.
Um, and we hope that you knowthat it doesn't happen overnight
(38:00):
because I do think one of thebiggest things that's lagging as
a category, and probably thething that can take this entire
category down is if peoplearen't educated and they don't
know how to consume thesebeverages.
So we're taking educationsuper, super seriously.
Ben Larson (38:15):
I love that.
That is amazing.
And I know how much work it isto consistently educate the
community, especially theconsumer.
What I'm often surprised at ishow much we have to still
educate the the cannabis market,right?
Like just really explain whatis happening in this category.
(38:37):
From your perspective, likewhat is one of the big
misconceptions, or what do yourun into that you're having to
educate your own peers on aboutlike what's happening in the in
the THC beverage category?
Theo Terris (38:49):
One of the hardest things to educate people on is
dosage.
Also confusing becauseregulations across different
states are extremely different.
And we touched on that a littlebit earlier, but in some states
you can have a two milligramserving size, and another
another state you can have afive, a 10, a 15, a 20.
(39:10):
And I think in Tennessee, thethe serving size is up to 15
milligrams.
So you can the brand or the candefine what the serving size
actually is.
Um, so I think from aneducational standpoint, it's
it's a it's a bit challenging toyou know to recommend or to to
advise you know what someoneshould try.
(39:31):
You can't even say, oh yeah,try one serving size because one
serving size in one state isdifferent from a serving size in
another state.
Ben Larson (39:38):
Well, and then you have a dispensary channel that
will take the same form factorand have a hundred milligrams or
two hundred milligrams in insome states.
Theo Terris (39:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'd say that's the biggestchallenge around education, at
least thus far.
AnnaRae Grabstein (39:51):
Well, so we would be remiss to not talk
about leadership as we had youon.
It's something that's importantto both of us.
And um, you've been goingthrough some rapid scaling.
And I think it is alwaysinteresting to hear about where
that really stretches us asindividuals and as leaders, and
then how that translates intothe way that we guide and lead
(40:14):
our companies.
And I'd love to hear a littlebit about your approach, what
you've been going throughthrough all of these changes.
You talked about it taking fiveyears to raise a series A.
Like that is a lot of focus andresilience that's needed to get
over a finish line like that.
So I yeah, how are you doing?
And in turn, how do you takethat and um and help your team?
(40:38):
And what do you what do youguide them towards?
Theo Terris (40:41):
Yeah, I think one of the things that we kind of
pride ourselves the most on overthe last five years is the
essentially how little turnoverwe've had in the business.
So I think we've only had oneor two folks leave Uncle Arnie's
to go to other companies overthe last couple of years.
So we've done a good jobcreating a healthy company
culture.
(41:01):
In terms of my businesspartners, I've known them and
been business partners with themfor the last decade, well
before we got into the hemp orcannabis beverage world.
We're entrepreneurs, we'reexcited about this category,
we're excited about buildingthis category.
I think one of the challengesthat we faced this year,
specific, specifically evenbefore the announcement or
(41:22):
before our Series A, is we'vereally kind of grown the
company.
We finished 2024, I think, with19 full-time employees.
We're at about close to 60 atthe moment.
And we've really tried tostrengthen every single business
unit of the of the company.
On the operation side, Jimmy,my business partner, was just
really just him for the firstfour years.
(41:43):
And now he's got uh a nationaloperations manager that deals
with all of our manufacturingpartners, a director of
operations, a procurementmanager, supply chain, quality
control, uh, regulatory side ofthings, the same on the
financial side, the same on themarketing side.
That was something that we'vehad a great brand for the last,
(42:03):
you know, four, five, six years,but we've never really had a
proper marketing strategy.
So we brought in uh a reallyseasoned marketer, a guy named
Brian Meshzebsky, worked atDiagio for a bunch of years.
More recently was at High Rise.
Um, he was the CMO over atSweetwater before they were sold
to Tilray.
So I think we've done a goodjob uh bringing in the right
(42:23):
leaders that are you knowmanaging their teams and
building up the right strategiesum for each individual
division.
Ben Larson (42:30):
Wow.
I talk to you guys all thetime, and I had no idea you had
gotten up to 60 people.
That that's incredible.
This industry really tests you.
We we talk about the waves, thethe unpredictability.
How do you stay agile and andscrappy and balance out with
(42:51):
scaling and growing your teamlike you have?
Like that that that's prettywild growth.
But still, at the end of theday, this this category, this
industry still very much feelslike a startup.
Theo Terris (43:02):
Yeah, I think for us, just it's my human nature,
it's the same with my businesspartners to get really involved.
We don't like micromanaging atall, but we really want to know
what's going on in every singlemarket and what we can do to
improve the market.
That's part of the reason whyI've been on this couple
week-long tour to actually getin the weeds, go to the stores,
speak with the retailers, speakwith consumers, understand
(43:24):
competition, try to figure outnew SKUs that we should launch.
I think it's super important tocontinue to be scrappy because
although we've been at this forfive or six years, I really see
this as top of the first inningstill.
There's a long way for thisindustry to grow.
So it's important for us tostay lean, to stay scrappy, to
be deep in the in the weeds ofit all.
AnnaRae Grabstein (43:44):
So while you're in this staying lean and
scrappy place, I I know becauseI've helped and seen a lot of
companies go through thefundraising process.
Part of that is also aboutreally putting some aspirations
on the board about who you wantto be, where you want to go,
making some level of predictionabout what the next couple of
years might look like.
And so I'd love for you toshare with us what you're
(44:07):
working towards at Uncle Arnie'sover the next couple of years
and where you think this is allgoing.
Theo Terris (44:13):
Yeah, I mean, our goal is to be the number one THC
beverage company in the US.
I think we're on a good path todoing that.
As long as we continue toexecute in the existing markets
that we're in, as well as expandwith the right distribution
partners, continue to build,build out the right sales and
marketing team.
I think we're on a good path tobeing a market leader, whether
we're the number one, the numbertwo, that's that's our
(44:35):
aspiration.
So we've proven success both onthe rec side and on the hemp
side.
I think in the kind of coremarkets that we are that we're
in, both on the rec and hempsides, we're either the top
brand or within the top two orthree.
So we don't like to be numbertwo, we don't like to be number
three in any market.
So it's really trying to workwith our distribution partners,
(44:55):
build out the right sales team,and prove that we can be a
market leader in every statethat we're in.
So I think that starts withCalifornia on the rec side.
It's proving ourselves in inMinnesota, in Illinois, and New
Jersey, some of these other kindof core markets that we're in
on the hemp side as well.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:11):
I love the confidence.
Number two is not good enough.
Ben Larson (45:14):
Yes, I love that.
Theo Terris (45:15):
Oh, yeah.
We're we're yeah, the the thewhole team is ultra, ultra
competitive.
Ben Larson (45:21):
So yeah, I love it.
More broader, I'm gonna keeppulling on this thread of
predictions, anyway.
I thought that was a greatquestion.
What about for the market as awhole, Theo?
What do you anticipate some ofthe major headlines being in the
in the next 12 months?
Like what can the people not inthe space look forward to to
seeing happening?
Theo Terris (45:41):
Yeah, I think it's gonna be one on the distribution
side, which we touched on atthis point.
Obviously, the Molsa network,the A B network has kind of
jumped headfirst into thecategory over the last year or
so.
Johnson Brothers is like thelargest wine and spirits
distributor.
I think they're the numberfour, the number five largest at
this point, um, has jumped intothe category.
(46:03):
But I do think that we're gonnasee Reyes, Southern
breakthrough, RNDC, I think justjumped into a couple states as
well.
So I think that's gonna startwith the distribution side.
I think on the brand side,we're gonna see, you know, some
major, major players enter thespace um either with their
existing brands or create newbrands over the next 12 to 24
(46:24):
months as well.
Um, so I think those betweendistribution between the largest
brands.
And then I know Anna Ray, youtouched on the whole target
thing uh to begin the thepodcast here as well.
I think it's gonna be dominoeffects.
So I don't know who's gonna benext.
I don't know if it's gonna beCostco.
We're hearing stuff aboutWalmart.
Um, Circle K is is is alreadyin the game, and they're work
(46:46):
we're expanding with themactually shortly in North
Carolina, South Carolina, uh,and looking at a couple other
states.
So I think we're gonna start tosee some of these major, major
retailers get into the space,either with smaller pilots like
like Target just did, um, oracross as many states as
possible.
AnnaRae Grabstein (47:03):
With those larger retailers, what have you
found to be their appetite forunderstanding the compliance
requirements and and thedifference in the state by state
kind of compliance, which atthe beginning, when when hemp
was first launching, peoplewould say, oh, that's the big
difference between cannabis andhemp is that there isn't a
(47:24):
state-by-state patchwork.
There is now.
And so for a retailer likeCircle K or Target to think
about a multi-state strategy,they have to understand like
what are the dosage requirementsand in each of these states.
It's not rocket science, it'sjust very reasonable.
But have you found that asyou're talking to those groups
that they have that figured outor are they looking for you to
(47:45):
answer those questions andexplain it to them?
Theo Terris (47:47):
I think it goes, it's kind of twofold.
Like one, they've got their owncompliance teams and lawyers
and they're looking heavily intoit.
Um, most of these largerretailers are only starting in
states where there's a fullregulatory framework in place
already, such as Target inMinnesota.
Um, if there's no regulationsin place, then a lot of the
(48:08):
retailers aren't divingheadfirst in yet, or they're
doing it on a smaller scale.
And I think on the the same ason the distribution side, where
a lot of these larger nationaldistributors are either looking
at states that are like green,gray, and red.
The green states will be those,you know, the phase one states
that there's full clarity inwhere they can go in with
confidence that, yeah, the regsare going to keep changing, as
(48:29):
Ben mentioned with, you know,Minnesota.
Hopefully they'll be full-onregulations in Ohio over the
next 60 or 90 days as well.
But um, I'm seeing the samewith distribution as and the
same with retailers that they'rekind of picking those green
states to start, that there'sfull regulations in place.
The grayer states, maybethey'll go in um with a little
bit less risk.
And then any state that's likefully banned, they're obviously
(48:51):
going to stay away from for now.
Um, both on the on the largerretail side, there's no point of
these larger retailers riskingout risking their overall
business and the same with thelarger distributors.
AnnaRae Grabstein (49:02):
Yeah, it it sure does make a good argument
for why regulation is helpful.
And um it it takes me back tojust like, yeah, thinking about
like my early days of evengetting into cannabis and and
how I understood pretty quicklythat a legal framework created
the stability that that wasneeded for businesses to be able
to plan or figure it out.
And yeah, without that,especially a very large company
(49:26):
that has diversified businesslines, it just isn't worth it
for them to experiment in thesame way as it maybe is more
okay for a dispensary becausethey're focused in that one
channel.
So yeah, really, reallyinteresting point.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
It is the end of the hour andit's time for our last oh wow.
(49:46):
Yeah, it just it went so fast.
So, Theo, this is your chance.
It's your final message for ourlisteners, advice, call to
action, closing thought.
Mike is yours.
Theo Terris (49:55):
Yeah, I would say, as I mentioned before, I entered
this.
I first tried a cannabisbeverage about six years ago.
I wasn't a huge cannabisconsumer myself.
I didn't have amazingexperiences uh smoking or vaping
or with edibles.
And when I first tried abeverage, I was just shocked at
how good it tasted, the onsettime.
(50:16):
And it was one of those momentswhere I was like, oh my
goodness, this is the future ofthe future consumption method of
cannabis.
Not that smoking or vaping orother form factors were going
away, but I just had this gutfeeling, probably the same, Ben,
that you had when you when youcame up with the idea, when you
and Harold came up with the ideabehind Vertosa.
And I didn't know if it wasgoing to be in 2019 when I tried
(50:40):
that beverage, 2030, 2050, or100 years down the road, but I
knew that this would be thefuture of cannabis.
And after a lot of those no'sthat I mentioned that we kept
hearing in 2020, 2021, 2022, um,I think five years in, six
years in, we're really startingto see what this category can
look like.
And I I've never been asexcited as I am now about one,
(51:01):
about Uncle Arnie's, but twoabout the greater industry.
So just super excited aboutwhere things are gonna go over
the next 12, 24, 36 months andum happy to be, you know,
working alongside such amazingpartners like Ben and the whole
team over at Vertosa.
Ben Larson (51:15):
Theo, uh, can't thank you enough, obviously, for
the shout-outs, but also fortaking the time on your road
trip after being in Vegas lastnight, red eyeing and and now
sitting in the car in Indiana.
Of course.
AnnaRae Grabstein (51:28):
Um, were you like sliding him five dollar
bills to get me on the show?
We didn't talk about that aheadof time.
Ben Larson (51:34):
It's uh there may have been a couple drinks that
were purchased for him lastnight, but uh you know for sure,
for sure.
No, but so much appreciation toyou and the team, uh Roberto,
uh software we saw last night,Jimmy, just uh your your whole
team's amazing.
All 60 of them.
Theo Terris (51:53):
Yep.
Thank you.
Ben Larson (51:54):
All right, man.
Well, take it easy.
Good luck on the road trip, andand we'll we'll talk to you
soon.
Theo Terris (51:59):
Thank you so much for joining.
Great.
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
Thanks, Anna Ray.
Thanks, Ben.
Ben Larson (52:04):
Amazing.
Anna Ray, wow, that that hourdid go quickly.
Uh still awesome.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:10):
I want to do a Stein holding competition with
some Uncle Artie.
Yes.
Uh can you set that up for me?
Yeah, I'm ready to go.
Ben Larson (52:19):
Again, just not in Vegas.
It's still not coasteringcasinos around here.
All right, folks.
Thank you for watching,listening, engaging online.
Thank you to our team atVirtosa one more time.
And Wolf Meyer, and of course,our producer, Eric Rossetti.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please drop us a review on
(52:39):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, orwherever you listen to this
show.
Thank you, thank you, thankyou.
And as always, folks, staycurious, stay informed, and keep
your spirits high.
Until next time.
That's the show.
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