We unpack the federal push to restrict hemp products, then turn to a grounded model for the future: regenerative organic cannabis. Darren Story from Coastal Sun shares how soil health lowers costs, why OCAL matters, and how compassion and affordability can scale.
• hemp policy shock and what it means for access
• lessons for advocacy and industry unity
• Darren’s path from blueberries to cannabis
• WAM partnership and medical-first roots
• OCAL certification and consumer education
• regenerative farming practices and cost
• navigating DCC rules and animal integration
• brand positioning and diverse consumers
• greenhouse tech for organic at scale
• expansion via teaching and partnerships
• wellness ethos, leadership, and discipline
• affordability, SP34 donations, and unit economics
• measured growth and a five-year vision
Sign up to apply for an invite: highspiritspod.com/morning-mixer
If you've enjoyed this episode, please stop, like, subscribe, share, do all the things
--
High Spirits is brought to you by Vertosa and Wolf Meyer.
Your hosts are Ben Larson and AnnaRae Grabstein.
Follow High Spirits on LinkedIn.
We'd love to hear your thoughts. Who would you like to see on the show? What topics would you like to have us cover?
Visit our website www.highspiritspod.com and listen to all of our past shows.
THANK YOU to our audience. Your engagement encourages us to keep bringing you these thought-provoking conversations.
Remember to always stay curious, stay informed, and most importantly, keep your spirits high.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
AnnaRae Grabstein (00:00):
And Ray, what's what's the details again
on the High Spirits Mixer thisyear?
We are having the best party inall of Vegas.
It's December 4th in themorning.
You can go to highspiritspod.com slash morning
dash mixer and get all the infothere.
You can sign up to apply for aninvite.
(00:21):
We are curating our guest list.
It is going to be fabulous.
And we are going to becelebrating all of the high
spirits that are in thisindustry and who deserve to just
come together and have a goodtime and sip some sips, have
some high fives.
We'd love to see you.
Come hang out.
Ben Larson (00:46):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 113 of High
Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson, and I'm back inaction with my co-host, Anna
Ray Grabstein today.
We're recording Tuesday,November 11th, 2025, and it's
Veterans Day.
We've got a great show for youtoday.
We're bringing on Darren'sstory from Coastal Sun Farm.
We're going to be talking aboutthe organic movement in
(01:08):
cannabis.
But before we get there, AnnaRay, how's your week going?
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:13):
No, I am staying strong.
That is that is my my narrativeand my mantra for this one.
Ben Larson (01:19):
Keeping those spirits high.
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:21):
Keeping those spirits high for sure.
I had the most incredibleworkout yesterday.
I lifted so many weights.
I did this new exercise calleda Bulgarian split squat.
Sounds painful.
Yeah, it broke me.
Um, but I needed to be brokenby something other than news.
(01:42):
So it was it was really good.
I'm feeling it in my butttoday, really sore.
Ben Larson (01:49):
There's uh there's been a fair amount of ass
kicking news uh this this week,which if you're even if you're
living under a rock, I'm sureyou're hearing about it.
The Senate has passed MitchMcConnell's hemp ban language.
Some people say it'sregulation, not a ban, but at
the current language, it doesremove a lot.
The the 0.4 milligram cap percontainer uh certainly would
(02:14):
cause for most products to beillegal, including your full
spectrum CBD products.
That is likely to be passedthrough the house because no one
wants to hang up the governmentreopening uh because of hemp.
But is it a one-yearimplementation plan, which means
next week will be the same aslast week, uh just with a little
bit more foresight about whatmight happen in the future.
(02:36):
And so anyone that is fightingfor hemp or fighting against
hemp, you likely have anotheryear of lobbying ahead of you.
So buckle up, keep your spiritshigh, and and get back to work.
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:48):
Yeah, get back to work and be ready to put
dollars behind policy, becausethat's that's what's going to
move the needle here is that weneed to have action in DC.
And action has historicallybeen very slow.
We have not seen a ton ofaction.
How fast this action ishappening is pretty
unprecedented in terms of thepathway to using the
(03:12):
appropriations bill for any typeof cannabinoid policy reform.
Ben Larson (03:17):
Yeah, it's it's unfortunate.
Uh, rulemaking in a spendingbill is is is not what we'd like
to see, especially because thatspending bill is revisited
every year.
So fiscal year 2027, here wecome.
On top of that, you know, we'vespent years lamenting how uh
cannabinoids have just neverbeen really top of people's
minds and it's never been reallyhigh on the priority list.
(03:38):
And and look, hey, we made itto the center stage.
So uh that there you go.
There, there's the the silverlining.
I think there's some learningsthough from this time period,
right?
You see a lot of cannabisoperators, uh especially the
MSOS gang, uh, celebrating theprohibition of these hemp
products.
And I think it's just a a verycurious look.
(04:01):
I think we're gonna look backon this time period and maybe
cock our heads a little bit tothe side.
But you know, the the the hempside is not free and clear of of
missteps either.
I think it was after lastCanada where we not this past
one, it was it was a little overa year ago that we both
attended.
And my main takeaway from thattrip was uh we had to be very
(04:22):
cognizant about those who westand next to, especially when
we're doing lobbying work.
And what I've learned over thelast several months is that, you
know, there are some names,some people, some organizations
that have much betterreputations than others.
There are members of certainorganizations that don't
understand the reputation thattheir organization either once
(04:45):
had or now has or will have inthe future.
So I think it's just a goodtime for everyone to take a
pause in this period where wejust do some accounting and and
really assess what is the rightpath forward, what are
regulators saying, what areconsumers saying, what are the
legislators saying, and and howdo we come to a place that
(05:06):
actually puts good regulation inplace for the plant, for the
people.
And we don't have to take thataction right now.
I think this this week ispretty much written.
And so take a beat and reallythink about where you want to
apply your energy over the nextyear.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:22):
And this this idea of lessons learned, I
think that we've talked aboutthis a lot on this show in in
various ways, but the hempmovement over the past couple
years and the commercializationof hemp derived THC has
sometimes been called red stateweed.
And it often has hadregulations imposed at the state
(05:44):
level in places where therearen't medical or adult use
cannabis programs.
And truly acted as a testingground in states that don't have
another pathway or access pointfor cannabinoid products.
And and we've seen a widespreadadoption of these products by
consumers in the market.
Those consumers are losingaccess through this policy.
(06:07):
And that's it's a really bigproblem.
And whether you're a part of aregulated cannabis company that
sees this as a positive movethat is going to mean that you
are less competitive in a marketwhere you might have been
competing with hemp, we can'tlose sight of the point, which
is access for consumers.
And um, there needs there needsto be a consumer voice at the
(06:31):
table here and certainly thevoice of medical patients.
And today is Veterans Day, andwe know how much veterans have
been helped by cannabis.
And you know, whatever thego-forward is plan is, I just
don't want the people to be lostin the story.
Ben Larson (06:46):
Well, we have a year to figure it out, and I think
it will be a very telling time.
There are organizations, Iwon't call them out by name, uh,
that have been fighting veryhard against the uh hemp
category.
And it'd be interesting to seehow they take this opportunity,
this win, so to speak, to adapttheir strategy for what is the
(07:09):
betterment of the industry as awhole.
And some of thoseorganizations, you know, claim
to represent both cannabis andhemp.
So let's see it.
What's where do we go fromhere?
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:19):
Yeah.
All right.
In a total shift in topic,we're gonna talk about organic
regenerative cannabis today.
Ben Larson (07:27):
I love this.
I love it.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:28):
I think is a total bright light.
And hopefully, everyone who isfeeling like ready to be curious
about a new part of thebourgeoising industry or that's
really actually been around, buthas been a small niche and is
starting to really grow.
Like, listen up.
I am really excited to welcomeDarren's story, who's both my
friend and has also been aclient of mine for some time,
(07:50):
um, to the podcast.
Darren got his start incannabis at an early age.
He grew up in Santa Cruz, wheremany of his neighborhood
friends were cultivators longbefore the days of Prop 215.
Although he was surrounded bythe cannabis movement and by
agriculture his whole life, itreally wasn't until the
mid-2000s when he committed to aplant-based lifestyle that he
(08:13):
really dug into learning aboutthe food system and to into how
cannabis was grown as well.
And Darren co-founded StrongAgronomy, which is the business
behind Coastal Sun, withlike-minded co-founders with an
emphasis on developingregenerative systems to empower
others to create health andabundance.
The company is self-funded,it's the leading organic
(08:35):
cannabis brand in the US.
It has no debt and it'sprofitable.
Wow.
Um, Darren's worked in financeand has a master's in finance
from USF, which I mentionedbecause it's also my alma mater.
So we have that in common.
And I'm just really excited tobring on Darren and to talk
about organic regenerativecannabis.
Darren Story (08:54):
Hey guys, how are you?
Good morning.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:56):
Welcome, Darren.
Darren Story (08:57):
Morning.
Yeah, likewise.
It's good to be here.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:59):
Stoked to have you.
So let's just dive in.
Coastal Sun started as anorganic blueberry farm, but the
intention was always to growcannabis, right?
Will you tell us a little bitabout the origin stories?
Darren Story (09:11):
Yeah, that's correct.
So I was working at the stockexchange here in San Francisco.
We were trading options and itwas um early 2015.
And uh I was just at thatcrossroads in your career where
you're kind of like wondering ifthis is what you're gonna do
the rest of your life.
I'd been there for 15 years andI got a call from one of my
buddies who was pitching me onthis project.
(09:32):
They needed a person with abusiness background, and he was
telling me all about it.
Like it's a parcel with a bunchof greenhouses, and um, you
know, the goal is to go thereand start growing berries for
the Whole Foods Network.
We had an in at Whole Foods,one of our partners was good
friends with the CEO at thetime, the Rob family.
And then when cannabis goeslegal, we were all expecting it
(09:55):
to go legal, you know,relatively quickly because it
had already failed once inCalifornia at that time.
So we knew the next time I wason the ballot, it should pass.
When cannabis goes legal, youknow, we'll start growing
cannabis.
You know, he was pitching me onthe uh this idea of being the
the RJ Reynolds of wheat, whichI think everybody in California
had ideas about that's how itwas gonna go.
Um, and everything waseverything sounded good.
(10:16):
I was like, okay, you know, I'mI'm leaving the stock exchange
anyway, so that sounds good.
You know, I'd like to meet theother partners.
Um and I asked him, you know,where's this at?
And he's like, Oh, it's inWatsonville, California.
And I was like, Oh, no, dude,like everything sounds good
except that.
And he was like, Well, what'swrong with Watsonville?
And I and I was like, That'sthat's my hometown, that's where
(10:37):
I grew up.
I really don't want to go home.
I've been living in SanFrancisco since 95, and I never
wanted to go back home.
But I went down there andchecked it out and met the
partners.
And my main question was, youguys grow organically, because
most of them were already in theweed industry or or in the
organic industry, uh, nutrientindustry.
And they were like, Yeah, wedon't know any other way to grow
(10:59):
if you've never grown a cropnon-organically.
So that was pretty much whatbonded us, and it's it's just
what started the story and howwe got going.
And then we quick quicklystarted growing blueberries and
as I mentioned, selling them toWhole Foods back then before
they got acquired by Amazon, andit was going pretty well.
And then in late 2015, early2016, Wham, who's one of the
(11:20):
oldest collectives in the UnitedStates, they had actual legal
authority to grow cannabis fortheir patient base beyond Prop
215.
They actually sued the DEA.
I don't know the year they didthat, but they sued the DEA and
won their right to grow cannabisfor their patients.
Um, most of them are terminallyill patients, and uh they had
lost the property they weregrowing cannabis on.
(11:43):
So they approached us.
Two of our partners were on theboard of WAM at the time, so we
all got together and we movedtheir grow over to the property
that we had secured inWatsonville and we were growing
berries on, and we startedgrowing cannabis for their
patient base in early 2016, andit went pretty well.
We quickly outgrew the patientbase and we had this extra weed.
(12:03):
So we went to the countybecause WAM had like a lot of
authority with the county andthe sheriffs and stuff.
They really did have a licensebefore licensing even existed
because um there was nouncertainty, like they were
allowed to grow weed, um, evenunder federal standards.
And so we went to the countyand we're like, well, we seem to
have this excess weed, so whatare we gonna do?
So they said, you know, try andsell it to other dispensaries.
(12:26):
So that's when we starteddeveloping relationships with
like harborside and purple lotusand some of our other local
dispensaries, and that's kind oflike how we got through the
early years before 2018 andbefore it became recreational.
But we we call it the recmarket, but we still have a
medical license.
We might be one of the few inthe state that actually grow
under a medical license.
(12:47):
We and at the time, rememberthey at Prop 64, they were gonna
have medical and rec andeveryone was like, Well, we're
gonna do rec.
And and we were like, Well,we're gonna do medical.
Like, why why would you do rec?
And so to this day, we stillhave a medical license.
We just we just didn't knowthat's funny.
Ben Larson (13:05):
When we're we're when we were getting started in
Berkeley, we were likeevaluating the laws, and they're
like, Oh, there's a differenttax code for medical versus rec.
And it's like, well, what's thedifference after it leaves our
hands because we're middle ofthe supply chain?
Like, well, it all goes to thesame outlet, so you can just
claim one or the other.
Yeah, and I was really confusedby that.
And then as we know, it justkind of the talk of medical kind
(13:28):
of goes away.
Darren Story (13:28):
Yeah, it does.
Ben Larson (13:29):
Um giving you lots of accolades in the
introduction.
Number one, organic brand,profitable.
But one of the biggestchallenges in in running a
cannabis company is typicallythat we don't have access to
that USDA certified organic.
And and I know that Californialaunched their OCAL program, but
(13:50):
I'm curious as what that lookslike in action.
Does the OCAL certificationcarry weight?
And is that helping you marketand sell your products?
And that's why you'reperforming so well, or is it
more the fact that you just havereally great weed and it's
because you grow it in this veryloving and caring way under the
(14:12):
coastal sun, so to speak?
What is it?
Like how how is the organicmovement going in cannabis right
now?
Darren Story (14:19):
I feel like the organic cannabis, I've in OCAL
in particular, is one of thethings that the state got right.
Of the many things that theydidn't get right, I feel like
they've done a good job withthis, but they had they had the
backbones of a program alreadyestablished with the NOP organic
program, right?
So because we had beencertifying organic berries for
(14:41):
some time before OCAL rolledout, it was relatively
straightforward for us to youknow apply for the OCAL program
and get certified.
The programs are very similar.
Um, they're very restrictive inwhat you can use.
The input list is isrestricted, unlike growing
conventional cannabis where theyjust have a list of 66
(15:02):
chemicals you can't use in uhNOP or an OCAL, you have a very
restricted list of inputs thatyou can use, whether it's
fertilizer or pest controlproducts.
So it was relativelystraightforward and I think it's
going well.
Um, one of the keys to oursuccess is that growing
regenerative organics, itactually does lower your cost of
(15:24):
production over time.
Um, each year, once you kind ofhit a critical point, it
becomes more cost effective eachsuccessive year to grow because
the soil is really your friend.
Even a year like this year,where we had very challenging
weather, we still maintain acost of production that's just
far lower than a lot ofconventional growers.
(15:45):
And it's just because the soildoes a lot of the work for you.
So you, you know, you utilizeyour free inputs, which are sun
and water, water is almost free,and you optimize those, and and
those are the most importantones.
And uh you just get more bangfor your buck growing that
style.
So that's one of the keys toour profitability.
And I don't even mind tellingpeople that because our goal
(16:06):
would be to get everybody togrow organically, especially in
California.
But the OCAL program itself,it's not magic, like just you
can't just have OCAL and it'sgonna win.
Um, there's actually somegrowers that have pitched OCAL
products and it's not going aswell for them.
There's a huge education lift,and we have a big street team of
brand merchandisers andambassadors that are out there
(16:29):
educating the entire industry.
Um, we do get some support fromour certifier, which is in
Viracan.
They're also in Santa Cruz.
And then the other certifierfor OCAL is CCOF, California
Certified Organic Farmers.
Um, and they've done thisbefore.
They started the organicmovement.
They were one of the earlyfounding uh members of the NOP
program.
So I'm sure it was very similarin the you know 80s and 90s to
(16:53):
educate consumers on whyorganics matters.
I mean, I think everybody canremember, well, at least people
my age, when organics was like,you know, not not it didn't it
didn't look as quality as someof the conventional stuff on the
produce shelves.
Now it's it's much higherquality.
But but before it was likepeople were still learning how
to grow it, and then they had toeducate consumers, and you go
(17:15):
in there and you just see thislike this sad little tomato, you
know, compared to some of theconventional stuff.
Um, whereas now, because allthat's happened and we've
adopted a lot of theirpractices, the weed we grow
actually looks like fire.
Like you can even see reviewsfrom consumers online, and they
all they're all blown away atlike not only the quality of the
organic product relative to theconventional, but just our our
(17:38):
organic greenhouse relative tolike a conventional indoor is is
comparable.
So, you know, the technologyand the practices have changed a
lot.
It's a very open and sharing,like OCAL certified producers,
like we're all going tocollaborate.
And it's it's very similar toorganic farming in berries, like
everyone's happy to sharesecrets and and teach each other
(17:58):
how to get better.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:59):
Well, it's it's interesting that you're
kind of talking about theselists of kind of the do's and
don'ts, whether it's just cangrowing conventionally under the
regulated system or under OCALor organic.
Um, my son asked me the otherday, Mom, what's or what's
organic means?
Because he knows that I like tobuy organic, or he knows that
we go to the farmer's market andseek out organic, but he wasn't
(18:21):
really sure what it meant.
And and I was like, well, youknow, actually, it's kind of
just rules.
It's a lot of rules.
And and those rules dictatewhat you can or can't do.
And the intent is for somethingthat's that's healthy or clean
and natural and and withoutchemicals and pesticides.
(18:42):
But one of the things that is,I think in the last 20 years
that has been an evolution inthe organic and natural foods
movement is the concept ofregenerative farming.
And and then even morerecently, I've started to hear
people talk about regenerativebusiness.
And um as I've gotten to knowyou, Darren, I know that that
(19:05):
you guys have really metabolizedthis narrative into the
business, into Coastal Sun, intothe brand, um, and also really
into the way that you manage andfunction.
So I think that it would beinteresting for you to talk to
the audience about whatregenerative means in practice
and what it means from a farmingperspective, but but even also
more than farming.
(19:25):
What is the philosophy aboutregeneration?
Darren Story (19:28):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Um, right when we were gettingstarted, it was kind of becoming
um not so much a buzzword, butit was it was kind of piquing
interest in organic farmers.
And I guess we just kind of gotlucky that we were starting our
business right around the sametime that this movement was
catching steam.
And so we we just dove head in.
But it's beyond sustainable,it's really leaving the world a
(19:50):
better place than you found itand just continuing, it's it's
along the lines of leanmanufacturing principles where
you're continuously improving.
So the way that works withregenerative farming is our
practices have to continuallyimprove the soil and leave it
better than we found it.
And each year we want to getbetter at it.
So the regenerative movement,it's a little bit of a
crossroads right now.
(20:11):
There are people that aretrying to define it and create
standards and certificationssimilar to the NOP.
And then there's on the otherside of the coin, there's a lot
of farmers that are like, no, weshould leave this as inclusive
as possible and continue toencourage a lot of the large
conventional broadacre farmersto adopt these practices because
(20:31):
if they if they implement evena few of these, it leaves the
world a much better place thantheir current cultivation
practices.
So I I personally fall on theside of the coin where I think
we should make it as inclusiveas possible and continue to push
all growers, uh, all crops toimplement regenerative style.
We have these pillars ofhealth, and basically it
(20:54):
revolves around growing in apractice and manner and using
technologies and style thatimproves human health, it
improves farm workers' health,and it improves the planet's
health.
So it's really about, you know,we call it planet-friendly
farming in a lot of oureducational work because it's
just it's less of a mouthfulthan regenerative, and it's
(21:14):
easier to understand, oh, okay,you know, it's it's good for the
planet.
It's also ends up being goodfor you.
So that's a lot of what we'retrying to do is really just help
educate people, uh, whetherit's growers or consumers, and
make it as inclusive aspossible.
But regenerative in a basicnutshell is whatever your
practices are doing, you'regonna leave the world or you're
you know, where you're growingthe plants a bit better than
(21:36):
where you found it.
So it's beyond sustainable.
Sustainable is like it justfalls short.
The world is not in a greatplace right now, and we want to
make it better.
And farming's the way to do it.
Like farming is is kind of whatgot us into this mess.
When you look at when you watchsome of the documentaries and
you learn some of thestatistics, that fossil fuels do
account for a lot of pollution,but it's like 18%, whereas
(21:59):
agriculture accounts for over80% of the pollution.
So the the vast majority of itis just the way we grow our
food, um, whether it's, youknow, raise animals for feed or
grow our plants to feed thoseanimals, et cetera, et cetera.
So what got us into this messcan can get us out.
It's unbelievable that we havethis opportunity to employ
practices and continue todevelop them that can like get
(22:21):
the world out of the mess it'sin right now.
Ben Larson (22:23):
Absolutely.
Uh I want to dive in a littlebit into the practical,
mechanical side of this, becauseas a as a licensed California
operator juggling a DCC cannabislicense, what was a CDPH, hemp
license, organic certifications,GMP, all this kind of stuff.
(22:45):
What does that look like inpractice when you're talking
regenerative farms?
Because what I know ofregenerative farms is oftentimes
it comes with like croprotation and and like how do you
how do you manage that?
Has has the DCC made itnavigable for operators like
you?
Has the DCC made anythingnavigable?
Uh you you can plead the fifthtoo, if if if yeah, no, I don't
(23:08):
mind.
Darren Story (23:09):
I don't mind, I don't mind.
Um they listen a little bit,they have that cannabis advisory
committee, and we've been beenpetitioning them and and like
pressuring them for years towork on some of the cultivation
rules.
And so they do allow us to tolay let stuff go fallow now.
(23:29):
So if I have a um, you know, ifwe have a 10-acre parcel and we
want to take four acresoffline, they'll let us shrink
our permit and not pay licensingfees for that four acres for
however we want, a year or two,and then add it back in later
and not have to redo, go throughthe licensing process again.
So that took a while to get to,but we're there.
(23:50):
And so that really helps us alot with what we're trying to do
because you're right, inregenerative organics, you you
don't want to monocrop beyondjust cover cropping, which we
grow in the winter, to you know,help break up some of the
monoculture biology that'sestablished by just growing
cannabis during the summer.
We will be able to have ourneighbors come in and grow
(24:12):
traditional ag crops there.
Um, we're we're super fortunatethat we're surrounded by
organic farmers in our littleneck of the woods in Coral,
California.
So the plan is to have ourneighbor come in and grow some
crops, whatever that secessionmight be, potatoes, chilies, um,
whatever makes sense, and justbreak it up a little bit so that
we're not continuallymonocropping.
So the DCC gave us that bone,which is cool and it's going,
(24:36):
you know, in the rightdirection.
But ideally, what we'd like todo is just be able to move our
cannabis permit around and justbe able to rotate crops.
But then the other thing, likewe believe a lot in pasture
rotation, which is usingruminant animals to come in and
terminate your cover crop priorto growing your cash crop.
And cash crops are cannabisright now for us.
(24:56):
And the ruminant animals, theycome in, their little hooves
disturb the soil.
So it's a nice littledisturbance you get without
having to go too deep into thesoil with like what you do with
a tractor ripper that they usein conventional ag.
And then they also obviouslyyou know defecate and urinate on
the prop on them after eatingthe the grasses, they they leave
(25:17):
their their spoils, and thathelps feed the biology for the
for the soil.
So it's a great strategy andit's it's very well um
researched and developed, andthere's there's a lot of science
behind it.
Um, and then lately the DCCcame in with these sanitation
standards, and one of them waswell, if there's any animal
feces in your field, you know,you have to you have to clean it
(25:38):
up immediately.
It's like, do they know whatfertilizer?
We're doing you know, we'redoing this on purpose, and so
now they're starting to backoff, and they're like, Oh, yeah,
maybe maybe there needs to befeces there for organic farmers.
Well, and so now they're tryingto figure out like, well, how
do we make it so that organicfarmers can get away from the
city?
What are you solving for?
It's like, get get the hell outof here.
(25:59):
Like, what are you solving for?
Yeah, they were trying to tellus though, well, we want
cannabis to be like the foodindustry, and everybody was
like, like Janine from theOrigins Council and all of the,
you know, obviously NorthernCalifornia legacy organic
growers are like, we're notgrowing food.
Like, why do you want to belike the food industry?
Like, just create your ownpath, be like the cannabis
(26:20):
industry, be better than thefood industry, like create a
regulatory framework thatsupports your license holders
and and encourages us to dothings that are good for the
planet and good for consumers.
You know, it's just it's justcrazy sometimes the things they
come up with.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:34):
So you also don't need a license to grow
lettuce.
Darren Story (26:37):
You don't need a license to grow lettuce.
We do have food safetystandards.
I mean, the the CDFA and andthe federal government did come
up with you know these foodsafety standards in the last
couple of years, and you know,we're all abiding by them in
organic agriculture.
It's not it's not nothing uhonerous, like it's it's stuff we
are already doing growingorganic blueberries, but for
(26:58):
some reason the DCC just thoughtthat, like, well, that then we
need to come up with the samething.
It's like, why?
Like, we're we're you know,we're either sending this stuff
through uh a process to you knowwhich sanitizes it, or we're
setting a 600-degree flame tothis stuff.
It's not it's not food, guys.
But yeah, it's how it is, it'snot easy to navigate.
(27:18):
It's challenging.
I will say honestly, out of allthe regulations we have to
abide by, whether it's organicgrowing or or anything else, the
DCC's regulations make theleast sense.
Um, maybe it's just becauseit's really early in the game,
but yeah, it's it's reallymind-blowing sometimes.
Yeah, we're only nine years in.
AnnaRae Grabstein (27:39):
But you guys are making it work.
We're making it work.
So you talk about organic atscale, and and I think scale
matters because it gives you theability to truly have an impact
on the market.
If scale means that you can bea market leader, and um, you
guys do consistently rank amongCalifornia's top flower and
pre-roll brands.
(27:59):
And I'm just wondering when youlook at the other top brands in
the market, a lot of them arejust positioned really
differently.
A lot of them are indoor brandsor people call them hype
brands, or they're marketedreally towards guys with flat
brimmed hats.
That is not what that is notthe story that Coastal Sun is
selling.
Um, I'd love it if you couldkind of talk about the way that
(28:21):
you are positioning yourself inthe market, who you think your
customer is, and um what thatcustomer is proving uh about the
potential for organic cannabis.
Darren Story (28:31):
Yeah, for sure.
So, as you mentioned, you know,we're trying to build a
regenerative company as well,not just lip service to the
style of growing we do.
But so a regenerative companyis is always looking at the long
term.
Um, you know, how is this gonnalook when I when I hand it over
to the next person that's gonnarun the show?
How is, you know, how is thisgonna make an impact on the
(28:53):
planet?
Um, you know, it's it's theinfinite game, right?
So our consumer, we think, isgonna be with us for a long
time, and that's really whatwe're trying to attract.
Um, so our consumer, and it'sit's mind-blowing who our
consumers are.
I I can't, but like thedemographics are pretty far
stretched.
But one thing that's consistentis there are people that are
(29:14):
somewhat independent, likethey're trying to be autonomous
with their ability to controltheir health and their wellness,
and they're making you knowbetter lifestyle choices every
day, and they're likecontinually improving, like
they're trying to make themthemselves a better person.
It's really interesting, andthey come from all walks of
life.
There's younger 20-somethings,I guess they're Gen Z or Gen
(29:36):
Alpha.
Um, there's a lot of seniorcitizens that are that are
attracted to our products.
There's some Gen Xers and mydemographic, they're all over.
But the the consistent thing isthey're always trying to
improve themselves and and whothey are.
And then the other thing isthey're trying to improve their
their environment.
They're like they're alwayspitching it to their friends.
(29:56):
Like so many of our consumerswere turned on.
By one of their other friendswho was just passionate about
this product and really lovedit.
And that's what we're trying todo.
We're trying to just marketthat what we do is good for you.
And if you can support us,we're going to continue dumping,
you know, investment intoresearch and development to
(30:17):
continue to try and find betterways to grow plants that you
know heal the planet at the sametime.
So it's it's a community-drivencompany, I guess.
You know, it's a it's a wholecommunity of stakeholders that
that um feed in and pitch in.
And amazingly, like, you know,I'll give the regulators credit.
Like when they understand andlearn what we do, like they buy
(30:37):
in as well.
They're just like, this isamazing.
In particular, like our ourcannabis licensing officer in
Santa Cruz County is just likean amazing individual.
And he is just so bought intoour company and our industry.
And a lot of the other growersin Santa Cruz County are also
regenerative organics.
So it's like we get so muchsupport from the regulars once
(30:58):
they buy in and it makes sensefor them.
And it's beyond, you know, justa cash grab.
Yeah, that's it.
So I I don't want to knock anyother brand, but that's our
story.
It's just we're we're playingthe infinite game.
Like we're not buildingsomething to sell, we're just
building something to be able tohand off to the next generation
and that we expect is going tobe able to actually improve this
company beyond what we can evenimagine right now.
(31:20):
And our consumers are just arethose people that believe in
that that vision as well.
Ben Larson (31:24):
I'm a I'm a big Simon Cynic fan.
I I love the the the infinitegame uh reference.
Being that you're playing thisinfinite game and that we're
still in the infancy of ofcannabis, unfortunately, after
all these years, what are youbuilding towards?
Like where where does thisreally become exciting for you?
(31:46):
Are are you anticipatinginterstate commerce and the
ability to push Californiaorganic, or are you just
approaching every day as itcomes and and and enjoying the
kind of journey as it as it liesright now?
Like I mentioned, you know,we're we're nine years in into
this legalization experiment inCalifornia.
(32:07):
And so it's gotten kind of hardto anticipate when when those
things are going to happen.
And so I'm just curious as tohow you're approaching that as
far as your business planninggoes.
Darren Story (32:18):
Our business plan went out the window a long time
ago.
Um, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
I I'm it's hard to anticipate.
I I can take it either way.
Like we can either obviouslywe'd love to be able to grow
weed and expand outside ofCalifornia.
We'd love to continue teachingother California growers how to
grow our style.
(32:39):
And because we know that, like,you know, if we can get
glasshouse or someone to committo organics, like they're just
gonna push the envelope andthey're gonna require us to get
better and they're gonna dumpmoney into research and
development, and we'll be ableto glean some information from
them and they'll be able toglean some information from us.
And it just makes the world abetter place.
Like if they're not dumpingconventional salts into the
(32:59):
waterways and putting a bunch ofspent media into the back of
their facility, and who knowswhere it's gonna end up, like
the whole world's gonna be abetter place.
So it's you know, that's that'skind of the cooperation that
that regenerative organics standfor.
Um, and if we can't export,then you know what we're working
on right now is just trying tofind growers in other states
that we can work with and tryand help them learn our style
(33:21):
and see if if they can if theycan grow weed that you know we'd
be okay putting behind a in acoastal sun jar or container.
That's a project we're workingon with NRA.
We've got some good leads.
Um it's it's interesting, it'sdifferent.
California is obviously ingeneral a pretty good place to
grow weed.
Um it's very challenging insome of the other states um due
(33:43):
to just the the humidity and andthey get rains, like
California, other than thisyear, typically doesn't get rain
in the summer, where theseother states they they always
get rain in the summer.
You know, that's kind of wherewe're at.
Like, how do we expand thisstory and how do we take the
next step?
Um, we're working on a fewthings, a few angles, but what
all we do know is we're justgonna just stay mission driven
(34:06):
and take one step at a time, um,control the things that we can
control, which is ourselves andour quality, and you know, make
make a bunch of little mistakesand keep keep getting better.
And the environment's gonna dowhat it does.
Like can't control forwhatever.
I love that.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:24):
Can't control the dog barking.
You know, you were talkingabout going outside California,
and one thing I think we haven'ttalked about is is the way that
Coastal Sun grows.
You talked about your fieldcrops.
I think people probably have avision in their head when you're
talking um about an outdoorsun-grown organic farm.
(34:44):
Um, you guys also do grow ingreenhouses as well.
And and you think about kind ofwhat the proper product is
based on the quality that comesout.
And when you're looking atother states, um, I imagine that
potentially greenhouses are asolution to be able to grow
organic, high-quality productsin other markets that don't have
(35:05):
the same type of uh climate asCalifornia, right?
Do you find that other statesmight be better equipped for
organic if if like someone islistening to this and they're in
Missouri or Maryland andthey're trying to think about
how they could bring organicproduct?
Do you think that thatgreenhouses are a solution if
you're in a wet, rainy place?
Darren Story (35:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
We've spent uh millions ofdollars refining and and dialing
in the the process.
And um, we feel prettyconfident in the technology
right now, growing organicallyin a greenhouse to scale.
Our current flower greenhouseis about an acre, a little over
an acre.
Um, so we do have technologiesthat we kind of borrowed from
growing organic berries andlearning from others to grow
(35:49):
organics to scale.
You know, a lot of it has to dowith being able to pH the water
using organic inputs and alsopH down the water using organic
inputs, and then also gettingthe nutrition, in particular the
nitrogen and the phosphorus andthe potassium that you need a
decent amount of through thedrip lines and irrigate it.
(36:10):
And so we've we figured a lotof that out.
So yeah, we'd love to be ableto teach.
I mean, we're we're talking toa couple of people right now.
Um, that's the goal, that's thehope, is that we can work with
them.
And they have a lot ofquestions because they've been
growing conventionally, and youknow, it's all it all revolves
around how do you pH the waterand how do you get the nutrition
to not create too much biofilmin your lines.
And that's it, yeah, for sure.
(36:31):
You can do it in greenhouse.
And we grow some fire weed in agreenhouse.
All our other greenhousegrowers that feed into the
brand, I guess we didn't reallycover that.
Like Coastal Suns beyond justwhat we grow.
Um, it's a net the brand itselfis a network of legacy organic
growers throughout NorthernCalifornia that we've been
working with for years.
Right now, there's 20 totalfarms that feed into the brand.
Some of them grow um justsun-grown field crops outdoor,
(36:54):
some of them grow in greenhouseand some of them grow both
styles.
So all the other growers thatgrow in a greenhouse are a
little bit smaller than us, buteveryone's starting to learn and
figure out okay, you know, howhow do you scale this greenhouse
production organically?
Ben Larson (37:08):
And yeah, we're we're learning, we're teaching
each other like it's happening.
I love this.
All this uh teaching others andand improving by creating your
own competition.
We were talking in in the carwhen we were down in Anaheim
together uh about my my favoritewinery uh that I've been a
member of since like 2008.
(37:28):
They they do this biodynamicfarming, it's called Benziger up
in Glen Ellen, and they'vetaught basically everyone in the
US, like as many people aswould listen, how to do
biodynamic farming, and and itis really cool to hear that.
And Anna Ray and I talk a lotabout like these mission-driven
companies and how it does lay afoundation for building
(37:50):
resiliency and eventuallyhopefully profitability, like
yourself.
Let's go deeper on kind of thatmission-driven side.
I I know you've talked a lotabout you know plant-based
medicine and and it being kindof the source of a life force.
I want to kind of like dig intothat ethos a little bit and and
and just really kind of unpackwhat truly is is this greater
(38:14):
vision that you have, thisgreater mission for the for the
company and for the world.
Darren Story (38:19):
Well, I just feel like cannabis is uh as a tool in
your wellness chest or like auh arrow in your quiver, right?
So I feel like cannabis can beused by by people to treat all
kinds of ailments.
And um, I know that the doctorsare are starting to do some
research and learn, but youknow, even if if the science
(38:40):
community comes up with reasonsor or you know abilities to
treat certain diseases usingcannabis, I I feel I still feel
like using the highest qualityum input is gonna be the
regenerative organic because itjust has higher levels of
medicinal compounds.
So we'll continue to produceyou know more bang for the buck
for the for the medicalcommunity.
(39:01):
But I also think consumersthemselves are gonna start using
cannabis for treating all kindsof ailments, whether it's uh
you know sleep disorders or juststress and anxiety.
And it's just gonna be part ofa wellness and a healthy
lifestyle as these consumersjust start to really take
matters into their own hands andmake themselves better, make
(39:22):
themselves start feeling better,you know, following healthy
lifestyle choices, disciplineddiets, um, you know, yoga
exercise, meditation.
I feel like cannabis just feedsperfectly into that.
I learned recently from youknow incredible sources that um
a lot of the Hindus believe thatShiva gave cannabis to the
(39:42):
earth.
So it's been here at least youknow 15,000 years and it was
brought by Shiva specifically touh improve um humans' ability
to go deeper into meditation.
So that's something peopleshould look up, and that's my
understanding is why cannabis ishere.
Um I'm a big fan of Shiva, so Ithink that you know we're just
(40:03):
in the very, very early stageson how this plant can be used.
And then you know, fromcannabis, it's just gonna it's
gonna be all all kinds of otherplants.
Like we're just learning somuch.
Like, yeah, I'm sure a lot ofpeople watch the Joe Rogan
podcast on ibogaine and like thepotential for that.
Like, like we're just gonnahave to take you know our health
(40:25):
and wellness into our ownhands.
Like we have to go beyond theestablished medical system and
the pharmacology and and just golike, okay, what works for me
and what doesn't work for me.
And uh and I and um Coastal Sunjust wants to be right there.
We want to be a part of thatmovement because um it's it's
bigger than us, it's it's biggerthan what we can accomplish on
(40:45):
our own.
Like our consumers are gonnaaccomplish it with us, you know,
the regulators are gonna be apart of the story.
Um, basically everybody.
It's yeah, that's just themission is take your health and
wellness into your own hands.
Cannabis may or may not be apart of that journey.
Um, you know, certain foodswill be part of that journey,
but the consumers just everybodyhas to do it for themselves.
(41:08):
100% agree.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:09):
Yeah, I mean, we we talk a lot about how a
big part of leading a company isabout showing up for yourself.
And I'm curious how thattranslates into your own
personal journey in your life,in your health, and in and in
your leadership.
Darren Story (41:25):
Yeah, I don't know.
My employees might think I'm alittle bit crazy sometimes.
I feel like I'd push theenvelope.
Like I said, a lot of mycollege friends, we just kind of
got passionate about health andwellness around the same time.
My journey started when I wasworking at the stock exchange,
and it was just a competitiveadvantage to be able to wake up
earlier and not be full from thenight before because we had to
(41:46):
wake up very early to startwork.
I noticed that like a lot ofthe people that just ate like
royalty because we were allmaking pretty good money,
anything you wanted back then,they were really sluggish.
And the first couple hours ofthe trading day, it just it
really impacted them, and theywere really tired until they
would pound like three cups ofcoffee, and then lunchtime would
roll around and they'd startgetting a little bit more
(42:07):
energy.
And I didn't want to be likethat anymore.
I was I felt like that, so Ijust I stopped eating meat and I
was just you know vegetarian.
Um, and that worked prettywell.
I was I was able to get up andnot feel bloated the next day
and get get at work right away.
And then my buddy Kit, who'swho's done a bunch of movies and
he he was one of my collegebuddies, he convinced me in uh
(42:29):
it was like right after westarted this company, I think
2016, he came out with What theHelp, and he convinced me to to
try to go 100% vegan.
So I did that, and then him andsome other college buddies of
mine, we've just kind ofcontinued pursuing that
lifestyle and figuring out howto be more disciplined.
A few years ago, I got reallyinto yoga and meditation again.
I watched a Joe Rogan podcastand it was with Saadguru, and I
(42:53):
was like, okay, you know, I Iagree with a lot of what this
guy says.
So I went to one of his innerengineering workshops, and now
I'm just like, I've just dovestraight into like Kriya yoga
and meditation.
So I have a three and a halfhour routine I do every day.
I wake up around between 3:30and 4 and I crank out that
routine before I start myworkday, and that's every single
(43:14):
day.
Um, and then I just domeditations throughout the day.
So I I'm you know, I'm olderthan most of my staff, so I'm
maybe pushing the envelope alittle bit, but but all of my
staff, like we have continuingeducation every Wednesday, and
everyone we're always talkingabout and teaching each other
about new hacks or you know, newbiohacks.
Like, did you try this?
Have you tried this?
So, you know, like my our staffis really into fasting right
(43:37):
now.
Like we do a lot of fasts.
Um, some of us do dry fasts,some of us just still do water
fasting, but we all push eachother and like work on fasting
to to heal certain certainthings which are ailing us.
And um, yeah, I don't know.
It's it's kind of fun.
We we're all just trying tohelp each other get better and
healthier.
Ben Larson (43:57):
Wow.
People call me crazy forgetting up at 4 30 or 5 in the
morning.
You're you're up at 3 30.
What time do you go to bed?
Uh like 10.
Wow, okay.
Yeah.
So you know, I I've read a lotabout like how meditation and
and meditative states canactually contribute to that, you
know, that well of of sleep.
Darren Story (44:17):
It replaces sleep.
Yeah.
I didn't believe it.
When you first start going tolike some of these retreats and
seminars and workshops, likeSadguru and all the people that
have been doing it for a while,they're like, Yeah, you're gonna
start sleeping a lot less.
And I was like, I don't knowhow that's possible, but yeah,
before you know it, you'resleeping five to six hours a
night, and it's no problem.
And it like when I was trading,I used to wake up to 4:30 at
(44:40):
4:30 every day to an alarmclock, and it was just brutal,
it was horrible.
It was like to this day, Icould still hear that alarm
clock.
So I did that for 15 years, andnow I'm actually waking up
earlier than I was when I wastrading to no alarm clock, and
it's like super easy.
So yeah, I mean, it's justinteresting how your life ebbs
and flows.
Ben Larson (44:59):
And and are you indeed using cannabis as a part
of that practice when you'remeditating?
Darren Story (45:04):
Um, currently I'm not.
No, I use it a lot when I wasgrowing up in Santa Cruz County.
You just start smoking weed ata very good thing.
Yeah, it's like water downthere.
Yeah, no, I know now, I knownow that like it's not, you
know, a lot of the studies showthat you should probably wait
till you're 21 for your brain todevelop.
(45:24):
And you know, the studies arepretty convincing.
I'm I'm not gonna go tell kidswhat they should and shouldn't
do, but like my my my nephew,for instance, I'm like, no, you
should just be aware of thesestudies that you know, maybe you
if you can wait till you're 21,it might be better for you.
But Santa Cruz growing up inthe 70s, like none of those
studies were out.
We just started smoking weed assoon as we could steal it from
(45:46):
our parents.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:48):
So, Darren, I think that you've been sharing
a lot that's giving people agood idea of who you are with
your meditation and talkingabout regenerative farming.
But when I so I went onSaturday to the Coastal Sun 10th
anniversary harvest party, andI got to spend some time with
some of your co-founders.
And and I was uh walking aroundwith one of them, and they
(46:10):
said, they said that you are aCEO who identifies as a CFO.
And uh I have witnessed this alot as I've gotten to know you
as well.
And one of the things that isreally unique, I think, about
the way that you bring in sortof these like earth-based
philosophies into the company isthat you also have this
(46:32):
business background and you arerunning a really tight,
profitable business that'sfocused on metrics.
You keep things really um,really clear.
Like you, you know exactly howmuch it costs to produce a gram
of cannabis in your operationand and you know where you can
move the needle on pricing andhow you can stay competitive.
And so that's made it so thatCoastal Sun is is is both um a
(46:55):
values-driven brand, but it'salso not the most expensive
brand in the dispensary as well.
And and I'm I'm just wonderingif maybe before we end this
hour, if you want to talk alittle bit about the way that
you see the importance offinancial management as a part
of a regenerative business.
Darren Story (47:13):
Sure.
We owe it to our consumers.
Affordable quality is a bigdeal for us.
And uh in our opinion, organiccannabis has to be affordable
and accessible to alldemographics.
It's already hard enough withthe taxes.
I think the taxes are thebiggest challenge in the
industry still today.
So we owe it to our consumersto be able to produce uh an
(47:35):
affordable quality product at aprice that they can reach that
is a daily consumer, you know,someone should be able to
consume our product three tofour times a week and and be
able to afford it.
And um, it's just part of ourbusiness practices, part of our
ethos.
Like it's we're very driven inthat aspect.
And if they can't afford it,we'll just give it to them.
(47:56):
Like, like I said, you know, wewe started growing weed for
wham.
It's a compassionate useprogram.
I like to brag.
I don't brag about a lot ofthings.
One of the things I do bragabout is I I guarantee you we're
um donating more SP34 donationsthan any company in the state,
but we encourage everybody to doit, so it's pretty fun.
But we actually grow a certainpercentage of our our products
(48:18):
and all our partner farms pitchin, they're all in on it.
We grow a certain percentagestrictly for SP34, just so we
can support these programs.
And SP34 is California's umcompassionate use program, which
allows us to donate weed topatients without being taxed or
or or cost money.
So yeah, it's just we have tocontinue getting better in that
(48:38):
regard.
That's being mission-driven tous means continuing to make this
affordable to all consumers.
And like I know it sucks for alot of people that are like, oh,
the price of weed's so low.
It's like it needs to go lower,in my opinion, unfortunately.
Um, but the great news isthere's a lot of farmers like
originally, they were like usedto growing, you know, $1,300
(49:00):
outdoor pounds, and now we'reall fine with where it's at, and
our whole network of or legacyorganic growers, we're all
making a comfortable living.
Like no one in our in ournetwork is is not profitable.
So we're all figuring outtogether, and you know, maybe
we're not driving fancy cars,but you know, we're serving the
patients, and it's you know,like I said, it's a community,
(49:22):
so everyone's winning.
Ben Larson (49:23):
That's really great to hear.
And I'm just so inspired byyour drive, your mission, and
how you're doing it.
I want to know what successlooks like to you over the next
call it five years.
So 2030, you've beenprogressing, the movement, the
regenerative farming.
What are we looking at in fiveyears?
(49:44):
What what what have youaccomplished of like what are
you proud of?
Darren Story (49:47):
It's so hard to say, right?
Well, we want to grow 28% eachyear.
So however we get there, likewe're just trying to be, you
know, moderate growth.
I know the companies that growtoo fast, they have trouble
getting the right people andputting them in the right
places, and they end upfrittering away some of their
capital.
So we don't want to outgrowourselves.
We don't want to outgrow ourability to find the right
(50:08):
people.
So, you know, wherever 1.28 tothe fifth power is where I hope
our revenue is.
Um, if we're anything betterthan that, that's great.
Um, how do we get there?
We get there with continuing toserve our consumers and making
sure that they are veryappreciative and and appreciate
and you know getting what theydeserve as far as quality and
(50:30):
affordability, continuing togrow our farm network, teaching
our farmers and and you know,all of us just teaching each
other how to grow better cropsmore efficiently and you know in
a more planet-friendly fashion,and hopefully exporting to
other areas or or going to otherareas and teaching those
farmers how to grow.
But I'd really like to be ableto export it.
You know, I do like Californiafor look, California is great
(50:54):
for everything except thepolitics, right?
Like everything else is amazinghere, the people, the you know,
the geography.
Yeah, that's where I'd like tobe in five years.
But success to me, just likeit's also an industry-wide
thing.
Like, I just want to seecannabis continue to push
forward and become more adopted.
You know, consumers justcontinue treating their own
(51:14):
personal ailments with withcannabis and coming up with
innovative ways to to utilize itand and work it into their tool
chest.
AnnaRae Grabstein (51:22):
Hell yeah.
Well, so we're at the hour.
It's time to hear a last callfrom you, Darren.
So, what's your final messagefor our listeners?
Advice, call to action, closingthought.
Darren Story (51:34):
Uh, my my final call is that health is is your
choice.
Your genetics don't dictateyour lot in life, that you can
overcome any obstacle.
And you should just take healthand wellness in your own hands
and and be serious about it.
And you know, there's companiesout there like us that want to
be a part of that journey withyou.
Ben Larson (51:53):
We can overcome any obstacle.
I think that's a great note toend on.
Even lay even legislation.
That's right.
That's right.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:04):
Love that.
Ben Larson (52:04):
Darren Story, Coastal Sun.
Thank you so much for spendingthe last hour with us.
It was it was truly a pleasure.
Thank you.
Darren Story (52:11):
Yeah, likewise.
Appreciate you guys.
Ben Larson (52:14):
What do you guys think?
Pretty awesome, right?
Are you gonna go find somecoastal sun?
Go get yourself someregenerative cannabis.
I want to thank our guests, myco-host Anna Ray, our producer,
Eric Rossetti, and of course ourteams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please stop, like, subscribe,
(52:34):
share, do all the things.
Our audience continues to grow.
We're excited to see you inVegas at MJ Biz.
Come hang out.
It will be a great time.
As always, folks, stay curious,stay informed, and most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh.
Until next time, that's theshow.
And Ray, what's what's the details again
on the High Spirits Mixer thisyear?
We are having the best party inall of Vegas.
It's December 4th in themorning.
You can go to highspiritspod.com slash morning
dash mixer and get all the infothere.
You can sign up to apply for aninvite.
(00:21):
We are curating our guest list.
It is going to be fabulous.
And we are going to becelebrating all of the high
spirits that are in thisindustry and who deserve to just
come together and have a goodtime and sip some sips, have
some high fives.
We'd love to see you.
Come hang out.
Ben Larson (00:46):
Hey everybody, welcome to episode 113 of High
Spirits.
I'm Ben Larson, and I'm back inaction with my co-host, Anna
Ray Grabstein today.
We're recording Tuesday,November 11th, 2025, and it's
Veterans Day.
We've got a great show for youtoday.
We're bringing on Darren'sstory from Coastal Sun Farm.
We're going to be talking aboutthe organic movement in
(01:08):
cannabis.
But before we get there, AnnaRay, how's your week going?
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:13):
No, I am staying strong.
That is that is my my narrativeand my mantra for this one.
Ben Larson (01:19):
Keeping those spirits high.
AnnaRae Grabstein (01:21):
Keeping those spirits high for sure.
I had the most incredibleworkout yesterday.
I lifted so many weights.
I did this new exercise calleda Bulgarian split squat.
Sounds painful.
Yeah, it broke me.
Um, but I needed to be brokenby something other than news.
(01:42):
So it was it was really good.
I'm feeling it in my butttoday, really sore.
Ben Larson (01:49):
There's uh there's been a fair amount of ass
kicking news uh this this week,which if you're even if you're
living under a rock, I'm sureyou're hearing about it.
The Senate has passed MitchMcConnell's hemp ban language.
Some people say it'sregulation, not a ban, but at
the current language, it doesremove a lot.
The the 0.4 milligram cap percontainer uh certainly would
(02:14):
cause for most products to beillegal, including your full
spectrum CBD products.
That is likely to be passedthrough the house because no one
wants to hang up the governmentreopening uh because of hemp.
But is it a one-yearimplementation plan, which means
next week will be the same aslast week, uh just with a little
bit more foresight about whatmight happen in the future.
(02:36):
And so anyone that is fightingfor hemp or fighting against
hemp, you likely have anotheryear of lobbying ahead of you.
So buckle up, keep your spiritshigh, and and get back to work.
AnnaRae Grabstein (02:48):
Yeah, get back to work and be ready to put
dollars behind policy, becausethat's that's what's going to
move the needle here is that weneed to have action in DC.
And action has historicallybeen very slow.
We have not seen a ton ofaction.
How fast this action ishappening is pretty
unprecedented in terms of thepathway to using the
(03:12):
appropriations bill for any typeof cannabinoid policy reform.
Ben Larson (03:17):
Yeah, it's it's unfortunate.
Uh, rulemaking in a spendingbill is is is not what we'd like
to see, especially because thatspending bill is revisited
every year.
So fiscal year 2027, here wecome.
On top of that, you know, we'vespent years lamenting how uh
cannabinoids have just neverbeen really top of people's
minds and it's never been reallyhigh on the priority list.
(03:38):
And and look, hey, we made itto the center stage.
So uh that there you go.
There, there's the the silverlining.
I think there's some learningsthough from this time period,
right?
You see a lot of cannabisoperators, uh especially the
MSOS gang, uh, celebrating theprohibition of these hemp
products.
And I think it's just a a verycurious look.
(04:01):
I think we're gonna look backon this time period and maybe
cock our heads a little bit tothe side.
But you know, the the the hempside is not free and clear of of
missteps either.
I think it was after lastCanada where we not this past
one, it was it was a little overa year ago that we both
attended.
And my main takeaway from thattrip was uh we had to be very
(04:22):
cognizant about those who westand next to, especially when
we're doing lobbying work.
And what I've learned over thelast several months is that, you
know, there are some names,some people, some organizations
that have much betterreputations than others.
There are members of certainorganizations that don't
understand the reputation thattheir organization either once
(04:45):
had or now has or will have inthe future.
So I think it's just a goodtime for everyone to take a
pause in this period where wejust do some accounting and and
really assess what is the rightpath forward, what are
regulators saying, what areconsumers saying, what are the
legislators saying, and and howdo we come to a place that
(05:06):
actually puts good regulation inplace for the plant, for the
people.
And we don't have to take thataction right now.
I think this this week ispretty much written.
And so take a beat and reallythink about where you want to
apply your energy over the nextyear.
AnnaRae Grabstein (05:22):
And this this idea of lessons learned, I
think that we've talked aboutthis a lot on this show in in
various ways, but the hempmovement over the past couple
years and the commercializationof hemp derived THC has
sometimes been called red stateweed.
And it often has hadregulations imposed at the state
(05:44):
level in places where therearen't medical or adult use
cannabis programs.
And truly acted as a testingground in states that don't have
another pathway or access pointfor cannabinoid products.
And and we've seen a widespreadadoption of these products by
consumers in the market.
Those consumers are losingaccess through this policy.
(06:07):
And that's it's a really bigproblem.
And whether you're a part of aregulated cannabis company that
sees this as a positive movethat is going to mean that you
are less competitive in a marketwhere you might have been
competing with hemp, we can'tlose sight of the point, which
is access for consumers.
And um, there needs there needsto be a consumer voice at the
(06:31):
table here and certainly thevoice of medical patients.
And today is Veterans Day, andwe know how much veterans have
been helped by cannabis.
And you know, whatever thego-forward is plan is, I just
don't want the people to be lostin the story.
Ben Larson (06:46):
Well, we have a year to figure it out, and I think
it will be a very telling time.
There are organizations, Iwon't call them out by name, uh,
that have been fighting veryhard against the uh hemp
category.
And it'd be interesting to seehow they take this opportunity,
this win, so to speak, to adapttheir strategy for what is the
(07:09):
betterment of the industry as awhole.
And some of thoseorganizations, you know, claim
to represent both cannabis andhemp.
So let's see it.
What's where do we go fromhere?
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:19):
Yeah.
All right.
In a total shift in topic,we're gonna talk about organic
regenerative cannabis today.
Ben Larson (07:27):
I love this.
I love it.
AnnaRae Grabstein (07:28):
I think is a total bright light.
And hopefully, everyone who isfeeling like ready to be curious
about a new part of thebourgeoising industry or that's
really actually been around, buthas been a small niche and is
starting to really grow.
Like, listen up.
I am really excited to welcomeDarren's story, who's both my
friend and has also been aclient of mine for some time,
(07:50):
um, to the podcast.
Darren got his start incannabis at an early age.
He grew up in Santa Cruz, wheremany of his neighborhood
friends were cultivators longbefore the days of Prop 215.
Although he was surrounded bythe cannabis movement and by
agriculture his whole life, itreally wasn't until the
mid-2000s when he committed to aplant-based lifestyle that he
(08:13):
really dug into learning aboutthe food system and to into how
cannabis was grown as well.
And Darren co-founded StrongAgronomy, which is the business
behind Coastal Sun, withlike-minded co-founders with an
emphasis on developingregenerative systems to empower
others to create health andabundance.
The company is self-funded,it's the leading organic
(08:35):
cannabis brand in the US.
It has no debt and it'sprofitable.
Wow.
Um, Darren's worked in financeand has a master's in finance
from USF, which I mentionedbecause it's also my alma mater.
So we have that in common.
And I'm just really excited tobring on Darren and to talk
about organic regenerativecannabis.
Darren Story (08:54):
Hey guys, how are you?
Good morning.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:56):
Welcome, Darren.
Darren Story (08:57):
Morning.
Yeah, likewise.
It's good to be here.
AnnaRae Grabstein (08:59):
Stoked to have you.
So let's just dive in.
Coastal Sun started as anorganic blueberry farm, but the
intention was always to growcannabis, right?
Will you tell us a little bitabout the origin stories?
Darren Story (09:11):
Yeah, that's correct.
So I was working at the stockexchange here in San Francisco.
We were trading options and itwas um early 2015.
And uh I was just at thatcrossroads in your career where
you're kind of like wondering ifthis is what you're gonna do
the rest of your life.
I'd been there for 15 years andI got a call from one of my
buddies who was pitching me onthis project.
(09:32):
They needed a person with abusiness background, and he was
telling me all about it.
Like it's a parcel with a bunchof greenhouses, and um, you
know, the goal is to go thereand start growing berries for
the Whole Foods Network.
We had an in at Whole Foods,one of our partners was good
friends with the CEO at thetime, the Rob family.
And then when cannabis goeslegal, we were all expecting it
(09:55):
to go legal, you know,relatively quickly because it
had already failed once inCalifornia at that time.
So we knew the next time I wason the ballot, it should pass.
When cannabis goes legal, youknow, we'll start growing
cannabis.
You know, he was pitching me onthe uh this idea of being the
the RJ Reynolds of wheat, whichI think everybody in California
had ideas about that's how itwas gonna go.
Um, and everything waseverything sounded good.
(10:16):
I was like, okay, you know, I'mI'm leaving the stock exchange
anyway, so that sounds good.
You know, I'd like to meet theother partners.
Um and I asked him, you know,where's this at?
And he's like, Oh, it's inWatsonville, California.
And I was like, Oh, no, dude,like everything sounds good
except that.
And he was like, Well, what'swrong with Watsonville?
And I and I was like, That'sthat's my hometown, that's where
(10:37):
I grew up.
I really don't want to go home.
I've been living in SanFrancisco since 95, and I never
wanted to go back home.
But I went down there andchecked it out and met the
partners.
And my main question was, youguys grow organically, because
most of them were already in theweed industry or or in the
organic industry, uh, nutrientindustry.
And they were like, Yeah, wedon't know any other way to grow
(10:59):
if you've never grown a cropnon-organically.
So that was pretty much whatbonded us, and it's it's just
what started the story and howwe got going.
And then we quick quicklystarted growing blueberries and
as I mentioned, selling them toWhole Foods back then before
they got acquired by Amazon, andit was going pretty well.
And then in late 2015, early2016, Wham, who's one of the
(11:20):
oldest collectives in the UnitedStates, they had actual legal
authority to grow cannabis fortheir patient base beyond Prop
215.
They actually sued the DEA.
I don't know the year they didthat, but they sued the DEA and
won their right to grow cannabisfor their patients.
Um, most of them are terminallyill patients, and uh they had
lost the property they weregrowing cannabis on.
(11:43):
So they approached us.
Two of our partners were on theboard of WAM at the time, so we
all got together and we movedtheir grow over to the property
that we had secured inWatsonville and we were growing
berries on, and we startedgrowing cannabis for their
patient base in early 2016, andit went pretty well.
We quickly outgrew the patientbase and we had this extra weed.
(12:03):
So we went to the countybecause WAM had like a lot of
authority with the county andthe sheriffs and stuff.
They really did have a licensebefore licensing even existed
because um there was nouncertainty, like they were
allowed to grow weed, um, evenunder federal standards.
And so we went to the countyand we're like, well, we seem to
have this excess weed, so whatare we gonna do?
So they said, you know, try andsell it to other dispensaries.
(12:26):
So that's when we starteddeveloping relationships with
like harborside and purple lotusand some of our other local
dispensaries, and that's kind oflike how we got through the
early years before 2018 andbefore it became recreational.
But we we call it the recmarket, but we still have a
medical license.
We might be one of the few inthe state that actually grow
under a medical license.
(12:47):
We and at the time, rememberthey at Prop 64, they were gonna
have medical and rec andeveryone was like, Well, we're
gonna do rec.
And and we were like, Well,we're gonna do medical.
Like, why why would you do rec?
And so to this day, we stillhave a medical license.
We just we just didn't knowthat's funny.
Ben Larson (13:05):
When we're we're when we were getting started in
Berkeley, we were likeevaluating the laws, and they're
like, Oh, there's a differenttax code for medical versus rec.
And it's like, well, what's thedifference after it leaves our
hands because we're middle ofthe supply chain?
Like, well, it all goes to thesame outlet, so you can just
claim one or the other.
Yeah, and I was really confusedby that.
And then as we know, it justkind of the talk of medical kind
(13:28):
of goes away.
Darren Story (13:28):
Yeah, it does.
Ben Larson (13:29):
Um giving you lots of accolades in the
introduction.
Number one, organic brand,profitable.
But one of the biggestchallenges in in running a
cannabis company is typicallythat we don't have access to
that USDA certified organic.
And and I know that Californialaunched their OCAL program, but
(13:50):
I'm curious as what that lookslike in action.
Does the OCAL certificationcarry weight?
And is that helping you marketand sell your products?
And that's why you'reperforming so well, or is it
more the fact that you just havereally great weed and it's
because you grow it in this veryloving and caring way under the
(14:12):
coastal sun, so to speak?
What is it?
Like how how is the organicmovement going in cannabis right
now?
Darren Story (14:19):
I feel like the organic cannabis, I've in OCAL
in particular, is one of thethings that the state got right.
Of the many things that theydidn't get right, I feel like
they've done a good job withthis, but they had they had the
backbones of a program alreadyestablished with the NOP organic
program, right?
So because we had beencertifying organic berries for
(14:41):
some time before OCAL rolledout, it was relatively
straightforward for us to youknow apply for the OCAL program
and get certified.
The programs are very similar.
Um, they're very restrictive inwhat you can use.
The input list is isrestricted, unlike growing
conventional cannabis where theyjust have a list of 66
(15:02):
chemicals you can't use in uhNOP or an OCAL, you have a very
restricted list of inputs thatyou can use, whether it's
fertilizer or pest controlproducts.
So it was relativelystraightforward and I think it's
going well.
Um, one of the keys to oursuccess is that growing
regenerative organics, itactually does lower your cost of
(15:24):
production over time.
Um, each year, once you kind ofhit a critical point, it
becomes more cost effective eachsuccessive year to grow because
the soil is really your friend.
Even a year like this year,where we had very challenging
weather, we still maintain acost of production that's just
far lower than a lot ofconventional growers.
(15:45):
And it's just because the soildoes a lot of the work for you.
So you, you know, you utilizeyour free inputs, which are sun
and water, water is almost free,and you optimize those, and and
those are the most importantones.
And uh you just get more bangfor your buck growing that
style.
So that's one of the keys toour profitability.
And I don't even mind tellingpeople that because our goal
(16:06):
would be to get everybody togrow organically, especially in
California.
But the OCAL program itself,it's not magic, like just you
can't just have OCAL and it'sgonna win.
Um, there's actually somegrowers that have pitched OCAL
products and it's not going aswell for them.
There's a huge education lift,and we have a big street team of
brand merchandisers andambassadors that are out there
(16:29):
educating the entire industry.
Um, we do get some support fromour certifier, which is in
Viracan.
They're also in Santa Cruz.
And then the other certifierfor OCAL is CCOF, California
Certified Organic Farmers.
Um, and they've done thisbefore.
They started the organicmovement.
They were one of the earlyfounding uh members of the NOP
program.
So I'm sure it was very similarin the you know 80s and 90s to
(16:53):
educate consumers on whyorganics matters.
I mean, I think everybody canremember, well, at least people
my age, when organics was like,you know, not not it didn't it
didn't look as quality as someof the conventional stuff on the
produce shelves.
Now it's it's much higherquality.
But but before it was likepeople were still learning how
to grow it, and then they had toeducate consumers, and you go
(17:15):
in there and you just see thislike this sad little tomato, you
know, compared to some of theconventional stuff.
Um, whereas now, because allthat's happened and we've
adopted a lot of theirpractices, the weed we grow
actually looks like fire.
Like you can even see reviewsfrom consumers online, and they
all they're all blown away atlike not only the quality of the
organic product relative to theconventional, but just our our
(17:38):
organic greenhouse relative tolike a conventional indoor is is
comparable.
So, you know, the technologyand the practices have changed a
lot.
It's a very open and sharing,like OCAL certified producers,
like we're all going tocollaborate.
And it's it's very similar toorganic farming in berries, like
everyone's happy to sharesecrets and and teach each other
(17:58):
how to get better.
AnnaRae Grabstein (17:59):
Well, it's it's interesting that you're
kind of talking about theselists of kind of the do's and
don'ts, whether it's just cangrowing conventionally under the
regulated system or under OCALor organic.
Um, my son asked me the otherday, Mom, what's or what's
organic means?
Because he knows that I like tobuy organic, or he knows that
we go to the farmer's market andseek out organic, but he wasn't
(18:21):
really sure what it meant.
And and I was like, well, youknow, actually, it's kind of
just rules.
It's a lot of rules.
And and those rules dictatewhat you can or can't do.
And the intent is for somethingthat's that's healthy or clean
and natural and and withoutchemicals and pesticides.
(18:42):
But one of the things that is,I think in the last 20 years
that has been an evolution inthe organic and natural foods
movement is the concept ofregenerative farming.
And and then even morerecently, I've started to hear
people talk about regenerativebusiness.
And um as I've gotten to knowyou, Darren, I know that that
(19:05):
you guys have really metabolizedthis narrative into the
business, into Coastal Sun, intothe brand, um, and also really
into the way that you manage andfunction.
So I think that it would beinteresting for you to talk to
the audience about whatregenerative means in practice
and what it means from a farmingperspective, but but even also
more than farming.
(19:25):
What is the philosophy aboutregeneration?
Darren Story (19:28):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Um, right when we were gettingstarted, it was kind of becoming
um not so much a buzzword, butit was it was kind of piquing
interest in organic farmers.
And I guess we just kind of gotlucky that we were starting our
business right around the sametime that this movement was
catching steam.
And so we we just dove head in.
But it's beyond sustainable,it's really leaving the world a
(19:50):
better place than you found itand just continuing, it's it's
along the lines of leanmanufacturing principles where
you're continuously improving.
So the way that works withregenerative farming is our
practices have to continuallyimprove the soil and leave it
better than we found it.
And each year we want to getbetter at it.
So the regenerative movement,it's a little bit of a
crossroads right now.
(20:11):
There are people that aretrying to define it and create
standards and certificationssimilar to the NOP.
And then there's on the otherside of the coin, there's a lot
of farmers that are like, no, weshould leave this as inclusive
as possible and continue toencourage a lot of the large
conventional broadacre farmersto adopt these practices because
(20:31):
if they if they implement evena few of these, it leaves the
world a much better place thantheir current cultivation
practices.
So I I personally fall on theside of the coin where I think
we should make it as inclusiveas possible and continue to push
all growers, uh, all crops toimplement regenerative style.
We have these pillars ofhealth, and basically it
(20:54):
revolves around growing in apractice and manner and using
technologies and style thatimproves human health, it
improves farm workers' health,and it improves the planet's
health.
So it's really about, you know,we call it planet-friendly
farming in a lot of oureducational work because it's
just it's less of a mouthfulthan regenerative, and it's
(21:14):
easier to understand, oh, okay,you know, it's it's good for the
planet.
It's also ends up being goodfor you.
So that's a lot of what we'retrying to do is really just help
educate people, uh, whetherit's growers or consumers, and
make it as inclusive aspossible.
But regenerative in a basicnutshell is whatever your
practices are doing, you'regonna leave the world or you're
you know, where you're growingthe plants a bit better than
(21:36):
where you found it.
So it's beyond sustainable.
Sustainable is like it justfalls short.
The world is not in a greatplace right now, and we want to
make it better.
And farming's the way to do it.
Like farming is is kind of whatgot us into this mess.
When you look at when you watchsome of the documentaries and
you learn some of thestatistics, that fossil fuels do
account for a lot of pollution,but it's like 18%, whereas
(21:59):
agriculture accounts for over80% of the pollution.
So the the vast majority of itis just the way we grow our
food, um, whether it's, youknow, raise animals for feed or
grow our plants to feed thoseanimals, et cetera, et cetera.
So what got us into this messcan can get us out.
It's unbelievable that we havethis opportunity to employ
practices and continue todevelop them that can like get
(22:21):
the world out of the mess it'sin right now.
Ben Larson (22:23):
Absolutely.
Uh I want to dive in a littlebit into the practical,
mechanical side of this, becauseas a as a licensed California
operator juggling a DCC cannabislicense, what was a CDPH, hemp
license, organic certifications,GMP, all this kind of stuff.
(22:45):
What does that look like inpractice when you're talking
regenerative farms?
Because what I know ofregenerative farms is oftentimes
it comes with like croprotation and and like how do you
how do you manage that?
Has has the DCC made itnavigable for operators like
you?
Has the DCC made anythingnavigable?
Uh you you can plead the fifthtoo, if if if yeah, no, I don't
(23:08):
mind.
Darren Story (23:09):
I don't mind, I don't mind.
Um they listen a little bit,they have that cannabis advisory
committee, and we've been beenpetitioning them and and like
pressuring them for years towork on some of the cultivation
rules.
And so they do allow us to tolay let stuff go fallow now.
(23:29):
So if I have a um, you know, ifwe have a 10-acre parcel and we
want to take four acresoffline, they'll let us shrink
our permit and not pay licensingfees for that four acres for
however we want, a year or two,and then add it back in later
and not have to redo, go throughthe licensing process again.
So that took a while to get to,but we're there.
(23:50):
And so that really helps us alot with what we're trying to do
because you're right, inregenerative organics, you you
don't want to monocrop beyondjust cover cropping, which we
grow in the winter, to you know,help break up some of the
monoculture biology that'sestablished by just growing
cannabis during the summer.
We will be able to have ourneighbors come in and grow
(24:12):
traditional ag crops there.
Um, we're we're super fortunatethat we're surrounded by
organic farmers in our littleneck of the woods in Coral,
California.
So the plan is to have ourneighbor come in and grow some
crops, whatever that secessionmight be, potatoes, chilies, um,
whatever makes sense, and justbreak it up a little bit so that
we're not continuallymonocropping.
So the DCC gave us that bone,which is cool and it's going,
(24:36):
you know, in the rightdirection.
But ideally, what we'd like todo is just be able to move our
cannabis permit around and justbe able to rotate crops.
But then the other thing, likewe believe a lot in pasture
rotation, which is usingruminant animals to come in and
terminate your cover crop priorto growing your cash crop.
And cash crops are cannabisright now for us.
(24:56):
And the ruminant animals, theycome in, their little hooves
disturb the soil.
So it's a nice littledisturbance you get without
having to go too deep into thesoil with like what you do with
a tractor ripper that they usein conventional ag.
And then they also obviouslyyou know defecate and urinate on
the prop on them after eatingthe the grasses, they they leave
(25:17):
their their spoils, and thathelps feed the biology for the
for the soil.
So it's a great strategy andit's it's very well um
researched and developed, andthere's there's a lot of science
behind it.
Um, and then lately the DCCcame in with these sanitation
standards, and one of them waswell, if there's any animal
feces in your field, you know,you have to you have to clean it
(25:38):
up immediately.
It's like, do they know whatfertilizer?
We're doing you know, we'redoing this on purpose, and so
now they're starting to backoff, and they're like, Oh, yeah,
maybe maybe there needs to befeces there for organic farmers.
Well, and so now they're tryingto figure out like, well, how
do we make it so that organicfarmers can get away from the
city?
What are you solving for?
It's like, get get the hell outof here.
(25:59):
Like, what are you solving for?
Yeah, they were trying to tellus though, well, we want
cannabis to be like the foodindustry, and everybody was
like, like Janine from theOrigins Council and all of the,
you know, obviously NorthernCalifornia legacy organic
growers are like, we're notgrowing food.
Like, why do you want to belike the food industry?
Like, just create your ownpath, be like the cannabis
(26:20):
industry, be better than thefood industry, like create a
regulatory framework thatsupports your license holders
and and encourages us to dothings that are good for the
planet and good for consumers.
You know, it's just it's justcrazy sometimes the things they
come up with.
AnnaRae Grabstein (26:34):
So you also don't need a license to grow
lettuce.
Darren Story (26:37):
You don't need a license to grow lettuce.
We do have food safetystandards.
I mean, the the CDFA and andthe federal government did come
up with you know these foodsafety standards in the last
couple of years, and you know,we're all abiding by them in
organic agriculture.
It's not it's not nothing uhonerous, like it's it's stuff we
are already doing growingorganic blueberries, but for
(26:58):
some reason the DCC just thoughtthat, like, well, that then we
need to come up with the samething.
It's like, why?
Like, we're we're you know,we're either sending this stuff
through uh a process to you knowwhich sanitizes it, or we're
setting a 600-degree flame tothis stuff.
It's not it's not food, guys.
But yeah, it's how it is, it'snot easy to navigate.
(27:18):
It's challenging.
I will say honestly, out of allthe regulations we have to
abide by, whether it's organicgrowing or or anything else, the
DCC's regulations make theleast sense.
Um, maybe it's just becauseit's really early in the game,
but yeah, it's it's reallymind-blowing sometimes.
Yeah, we're only nine years in.
AnnaRae Grabstein (27:39):
But you guys are making it work.
We're making it work.
So you talk about organic atscale, and and I think scale
matters because it gives you theability to truly have an impact
on the market.
If scale means that you can bea market leader, and um, you
guys do consistently rank amongCalifornia's top flower and
pre-roll brands.
(27:59):
And I'm just wondering when youlook at the other top brands in
the market, a lot of them arejust positioned really
differently.
A lot of them are indoor brandsor people call them hype
brands, or they're marketedreally towards guys with flat
brimmed hats.
That is not what that is notthe story that Coastal Sun is
selling.
Um, I'd love it if you couldkind of talk about the way that
(28:21):
you are positioning yourself inthe market, who you think your
customer is, and um what thatcustomer is proving uh about the
potential for organic cannabis.
Darren Story (28:31):
Yeah, for sure.
So, as you mentioned, you know,we're trying to build a
regenerative company as well,not just lip service to the
style of growing we do.
But so a regenerative companyis is always looking at the long
term.
Um, you know, how is this gonnalook when I when I hand it over
to the next person that's gonnarun the show?
How is, you know, how is thisgonna make an impact on the
(28:53):
planet?
Um, you know, it's it's theinfinite game, right?
So our consumer, we think, isgonna be with us for a long
time, and that's really whatwe're trying to attract.
Um, so our consumer, and it'sit's mind-blowing who our
consumers are.
I I can't, but like thedemographics are pretty far
stretched.
But one thing that's consistentis there are people that are
(29:14):
somewhat independent, likethey're trying to be autonomous
with their ability to controltheir health and their wellness,
and they're making you knowbetter lifestyle choices every
day, and they're likecontinually improving, like
they're trying to make themthemselves a better person.
It's really interesting, andthey come from all walks of
life.
There's younger 20-somethings,I guess they're Gen Z or Gen
(29:36):
Alpha.
Um, there's a lot of seniorcitizens that are that are
attracted to our products.
There's some Gen Xers and mydemographic, they're all over.
But the the consistent thing isthey're always trying to
improve themselves and and whothey are.
And then the other thing isthey're trying to improve their
their environment.
They're like they're alwayspitching it to their friends.
(29:56):
Like so many of our consumerswere turned on.
By one of their other friendswho was just passionate about
this product and really lovedit.
And that's what we're trying todo.
We're trying to just marketthat what we do is good for you.
And if you can support us,we're going to continue dumping,
you know, investment intoresearch and development to
(30:17):
continue to try and find betterways to grow plants that you
know heal the planet at the sametime.
So it's it's a community-drivencompany, I guess.
You know, it's a it's a wholecommunity of stakeholders that
that um feed in and pitch in.
And amazingly, like, you know,I'll give the regulators credit.
Like when they understand andlearn what we do, like they buy
(30:37):
in as well.
They're just like, this isamazing.
In particular, like our ourcannabis licensing officer in
Santa Cruz County is just likean amazing individual.
And he is just so bought intoour company and our industry.
And a lot of the other growersin Santa Cruz County are also
regenerative organics.
So it's like we get so muchsupport from the regulars once
(30:58):
they buy in and it makes sensefor them.
And it's beyond, you know, justa cash grab.
Yeah, that's it.
So I I don't want to knock anyother brand, but that's our
story.
It's just we're we're playingthe infinite game.
Like we're not buildingsomething to sell, we're just
building something to be able tohand off to the next generation
and that we expect is going tobe able to actually improve this
company beyond what we can evenimagine right now.
(31:20):
And our consumers are just arethose people that believe in
that that vision as well.
Ben Larson (31:24):
I'm a I'm a big Simon Cynic fan.
I I love the the the infinitegame uh reference.
Being that you're playing thisinfinite game and that we're
still in the infancy of ofcannabis, unfortunately, after
all these years, what are youbuilding towards?
Like where where does thisreally become exciting for you?
(31:46):
Are are you anticipatinginterstate commerce and the
ability to push Californiaorganic, or are you just
approaching every day as itcomes and and and enjoying the
kind of journey as it as it liesright now?
Like I mentioned, you know,we're we're nine years in into
this legalization experiment inCalifornia.
(32:07):
And so it's gotten kind of hardto anticipate when when those
things are going to happen.
And so I'm just curious as tohow you're approaching that as
far as your business planninggoes.
Darren Story (32:18):
Our business plan went out the window a long time
ago.
Um, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
I I'm it's hard to anticipate.
I I can take it either way.
Like we can either obviouslywe'd love to be able to grow
weed and expand outside ofCalifornia.
We'd love to continue teachingother California growers how to
grow our style.
(32:39):
And because we know that, like,you know, if we can get
glasshouse or someone to committo organics, like they're just
gonna push the envelope andthey're gonna require us to get
better and they're gonna dumpmoney into research and
development, and we'll be ableto glean some information from
them and they'll be able toglean some information from us.
And it just makes the world abetter place.
Like if they're not dumpingconventional salts into the
(32:59):
waterways and putting a bunch ofspent media into the back of
their facility, and who knowswhere it's gonna end up, like
the whole world's gonna be abetter place.
So it's you know, that's that'skind of the cooperation that
that regenerative organics standfor.
Um, and if we can't export,then you know what we're working
on right now is just trying tofind growers in other states
that we can work with and tryand help them learn our style
(33:21):
and see if if they can if theycan grow weed that you know we'd
be okay putting behind a in acoastal sun jar or container.
That's a project we're workingon with NRA.
We've got some good leads.
Um it's it's interesting, it'sdifferent.
California is obviously ingeneral a pretty good place to
grow weed.
Um it's very challenging insome of the other states um due
(33:43):
to just the the humidity and andthey get rains, like
California, other than thisyear, typically doesn't get rain
in the summer, where theseother states they they always
get rain in the summer.
You know, that's kind of wherewe're at.
Like, how do we expand thisstory and how do we take the
next step?
Um, we're working on a fewthings, a few angles, but what
all we do know is we're justgonna just stay mission driven
(34:06):
and take one step at a time, um,control the things that we can
control, which is ourselves andour quality, and you know, make
make a bunch of little mistakesand keep keep getting better.
And the environment's gonna dowhat it does.
Like can't control forwhatever.
I love that.
AnnaRae Grabstein (34:24):
Can't control the dog barking.
You know, you were talkingabout going outside California,
and one thing I think we haven'ttalked about is is the way that
Coastal Sun grows.
You talked about your fieldcrops.
I think people probably have avision in their head when you're
talking um about an outdoorsun-grown organic farm.
(34:44):
Um, you guys also do grow ingreenhouses as well.
And and you think about kind ofwhat the proper product is
based on the quality that comesout.
And when you're looking atother states, um, I imagine that
potentially greenhouses are asolution to be able to grow
organic, high-quality productsin other markets that don't have
(35:05):
the same type of uh climate asCalifornia, right?
Do you find that other statesmight be better equipped for
organic if if like someone islistening to this and they're in
Missouri or Maryland andthey're trying to think about
how they could bring organicproduct?
Do you think that thatgreenhouses are a solution if
you're in a wet, rainy place?
Darren Story (35:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
We've spent uh millions ofdollars refining and and dialing
in the the process.
And um, we feel prettyconfident in the technology
right now, growing organicallyin a greenhouse to scale.
Our current flower greenhouseis about an acre, a little over
an acre.
Um, so we do have technologiesthat we kind of borrowed from
growing organic berries andlearning from others to grow
(35:49):
organics to scale.
You know, a lot of it has to dowith being able to pH the water
using organic inputs and alsopH down the water using organic
inputs, and then also gettingthe nutrition, in particular the
nitrogen and the phosphorus andthe potassium that you need a
decent amount of through thedrip lines and irrigate it.
(36:10):
And so we've we figured a lotof that out.
So yeah, we'd love to be ableto teach.
I mean, we're we're talking toa couple of people right now.
Um, that's the goal, that's thehope, is that we can work with
them.
And they have a lot ofquestions because they've been
growing conventionally, and youknow, it's all it all revolves
around how do you pH the waterand how do you get the nutrition
to not create too much biofilmin your lines.
And that's it, yeah, for sure.
(36:31):
You can do it in greenhouse.
And we grow some fire weed in agreenhouse.
All our other greenhousegrowers that feed into the
brand, I guess we didn't reallycover that.
Like Coastal Suns beyond justwhat we grow.
Um, it's a net the brand itselfis a network of legacy organic
growers throughout NorthernCalifornia that we've been
working with for years.
Right now, there's 20 totalfarms that feed into the brand.
Some of them grow um justsun-grown field crops outdoor,
(36:54):
some of them grow in greenhouseand some of them grow both
styles.
So all the other growers thatgrow in a greenhouse are a
little bit smaller than us, buteveryone's starting to learn and
figure out okay, you know, howhow do you scale this greenhouse
production organically?
Ben Larson (37:08):
And yeah, we're we're learning, we're teaching
each other like it's happening.
I love this.
All this uh teaching others andand improving by creating your
own competition.
We were talking in in the carwhen we were down in Anaheim
together uh about my my favoritewinery uh that I've been a
member of since like 2008.
(37:28):
They they do this biodynamicfarming, it's called Benziger up
in Glen Ellen, and they'vetaught basically everyone in the
US, like as many people aswould listen, how to do
biodynamic farming, and and itis really cool to hear that.
And Anna Ray and I talk a lotabout like these mission-driven
companies and how it does lay afoundation for building
(37:50):
resiliency and eventuallyhopefully profitability, like
yourself.
Let's go deeper on kind of thatmission-driven side.
I I know you've talked a lotabout you know plant-based
medicine and and it being kindof the source of a life force.
I want to kind of like dig intothat ethos a little bit and and
and just really kind of unpackwhat truly is is this greater
(38:14):
vision that you have, thisgreater mission for the for the
company and for the world.
Darren Story (38:19):
Well, I just feel like cannabis is uh as a tool in
your wellness chest or like auh arrow in your quiver, right?
So I feel like cannabis can beused by by people to treat all
kinds of ailments.
And um, I know that the doctorsare are starting to do some
research and learn, but youknow, even if if the science
(38:40):
community comes up with reasonsor or you know abilities to
treat certain diseases usingcannabis, I I feel I still feel
like using the highest qualityum input is gonna be the
regenerative organic because itjust has higher levels of
medicinal compounds.
So we'll continue to produceyou know more bang for the buck
for the for the medicalcommunity.
(39:01):
But I also think consumersthemselves are gonna start using
cannabis for treating all kindsof ailments, whether it's uh
you know sleep disorders or juststress and anxiety.
And it's just gonna be part ofa wellness and a healthy
lifestyle as these consumersjust start to really take
matters into their own hands andmake themselves better, make
(39:22):
themselves start feeling better,you know, following healthy
lifestyle choices, disciplineddiets, um, you know, yoga
exercise, meditation.
I feel like cannabis just feedsperfectly into that.
I learned recently from youknow incredible sources that um
a lot of the Hindus believe thatShiva gave cannabis to the
(39:42):
earth.
So it's been here at least youknow 15,000 years and it was
brought by Shiva specifically touh improve um humans' ability
to go deeper into meditation.
So that's something peopleshould look up, and that's my
understanding is why cannabis ishere.
Um I'm a big fan of Shiva, so Ithink that you know we're just
(40:03):
in the very, very early stageson how this plant can be used.
And then you know, fromcannabis, it's just gonna it's
gonna be all all kinds of otherplants.
Like we're just learning somuch.
Like, yeah, I'm sure a lot ofpeople watch the Joe Rogan
podcast on ibogaine and like thepotential for that.
Like, like we're just gonnahave to take you know our health
(40:25):
and wellness into our ownhands.
Like we have to go beyond theestablished medical system and
the pharmacology and and just golike, okay, what works for me
and what doesn't work for me.
And uh and I and um Coastal Sunjust wants to be right there.
We want to be a part of thatmovement because um it's it's
bigger than us, it's it's biggerthan what we can accomplish on
(40:45):
our own.
Like our consumers are gonnaaccomplish it with us, you know,
the regulators are gonna be apart of the story.
Um, basically everybody.
It's yeah, that's just themission is take your health and
wellness into your own hands.
Cannabis may or may not be apart of that journey.
Um, you know, certain foodswill be part of that journey,
but the consumers just everybodyhas to do it for themselves.
(41:08):
100% agree.
AnnaRae Grabstein (41:09):
Yeah, I mean, we we talk a lot about how a
big part of leading a company isabout showing up for yourself.
And I'm curious how thattranslates into your own
personal journey in your life,in your health, and in and in
your leadership.
Darren Story (41:25):
Yeah, I don't know.
My employees might think I'm alittle bit crazy sometimes.
I feel like I'd push theenvelope.
Like I said, a lot of mycollege friends, we just kind of
got passionate about health andwellness around the same time.
My journey started when I wasworking at the stock exchange,
and it was just a competitiveadvantage to be able to wake up
earlier and not be full from thenight before because we had to
(41:46):
wake up very early to startwork.
I noticed that like a lot ofthe people that just ate like
royalty because we were allmaking pretty good money,
anything you wanted back then,they were really sluggish.
And the first couple hours ofthe trading day, it just it
really impacted them, and theywere really tired until they
would pound like three cups ofcoffee, and then lunchtime would
roll around and they'd startgetting a little bit more
(42:07):
energy.
And I didn't want to be likethat anymore.
I was I felt like that, so Ijust I stopped eating meat and I
was just you know vegetarian.
Um, and that worked prettywell.
I was I was able to get up andnot feel bloated the next day
and get get at work right away.
And then my buddy Kit, who'swho's done a bunch of movies and
he he was one of my collegebuddies, he convinced me in uh
(42:29):
it was like right after westarted this company, I think
2016, he came out with What theHelp, and he convinced me to to
try to go 100% vegan.
So I did that, and then him andsome other college buddies of
mine, we've just kind ofcontinued pursuing that
lifestyle and figuring out howto be more disciplined.
A few years ago, I got reallyinto yoga and meditation again.
I watched a Joe Rogan podcastand it was with Saadguru, and I
(42:53):
was like, okay, you know, I Iagree with a lot of what this
guy says.
So I went to one of his innerengineering workshops, and now
I'm just like, I've just dovestraight into like Kriya yoga
and meditation.
So I have a three and a halfhour routine I do every day.
I wake up around between 3:30and 4 and I crank out that
routine before I start myworkday, and that's every single
(43:14):
day.
Um, and then I just domeditations throughout the day.
So I I'm you know, I'm olderthan most of my staff, so I'm
maybe pushing the envelope alittle bit, but but all of my
staff, like we have continuingeducation every Wednesday, and
everyone we're always talkingabout and teaching each other
about new hacks or you know, newbiohacks.
Like, did you try this?
Have you tried this?
So, you know, like my our staffis really into fasting right
(43:37):
now.
Like we do a lot of fasts.
Um, some of us do dry fasts,some of us just still do water
fasting, but we all push eachother and like work on fasting
to to heal certain certainthings which are ailing us.
And um, yeah, I don't know.
It's it's kind of fun.
We we're all just trying tohelp each other get better and
healthier.
Ben Larson (43:57):
Wow.
People call me crazy forgetting up at 4 30 or 5 in the
morning.
You're you're up at 3 30.
What time do you go to bed?
Uh like 10.
Wow, okay.
Yeah.
So you know, I I've read a lotabout like how meditation and
and meditative states canactually contribute to that, you
know, that well of of sleep.
Darren Story (44:17):
It replaces sleep.
Yeah.
I didn't believe it.
When you first start going tolike some of these retreats and
seminars and workshops, likeSadguru and all the people that
have been doing it for a while,they're like, Yeah, you're gonna
start sleeping a lot less.
And I was like, I don't knowhow that's possible, but yeah,
before you know it, you'resleeping five to six hours a
night, and it's no problem.
And it like when I was trading,I used to wake up to 4:30 at
(44:40):
4:30 every day to an alarmclock, and it was just brutal,
it was horrible.
It was like to this day, Icould still hear that alarm
clock.
So I did that for 15 years, andnow I'm actually waking up
earlier than I was when I wastrading to no alarm clock, and
it's like super easy.
So yeah, I mean, it's justinteresting how your life ebbs
and flows.
Ben Larson (44:59):
And and are you indeed using cannabis as a part
of that practice when you'remeditating?
Darren Story (45:04):
Um, currently I'm not.
No, I use it a lot when I wasgrowing up in Santa Cruz County.
You just start smoking weed ata very good thing.
Yeah, it's like water downthere.
Yeah, no, I know now, I knownow that like it's not, you
know, a lot of the studies showthat you should probably wait
till you're 21 for your brain todevelop.
(45:24):
And you know, the studies arepretty convincing.
I'm I'm not gonna go tell kidswhat they should and shouldn't
do, but like my my my nephew,for instance, I'm like, no, you
should just be aware of thesestudies that you know, maybe you
if you can wait till you're 21,it might be better for you.
But Santa Cruz growing up inthe 70s, like none of those
studies were out.
We just started smoking weed assoon as we could steal it from
(45:46):
our parents.
AnnaRae Grabstein (45:48):
So, Darren, I think that you've been sharing
a lot that's giving people agood idea of who you are with
your meditation and talkingabout regenerative farming.
But when I so I went onSaturday to the Coastal Sun 10th
anniversary harvest party, andI got to spend some time with
some of your co-founders.
And and I was uh walking aroundwith one of them, and they
(46:10):
said, they said that you are aCEO who identifies as a CFO.
And uh I have witnessed this alot as I've gotten to know you
as well.
And one of the things that isreally unique, I think, about
the way that you bring in sortof these like earth-based
philosophies into the company isthat you also have this
(46:32):
business background and you arerunning a really tight,
profitable business that'sfocused on metrics.
You keep things really um,really clear.
Like you, you know exactly howmuch it costs to produce a gram
of cannabis in your operationand and you know where you can
move the needle on pricing andhow you can stay competitive.
And so that's made it so thatCoastal Sun is is is both um a
(46:55):
values-driven brand, but it'salso not the most expensive
brand in the dispensary as well.
And and I'm I'm just wonderingif maybe before we end this
hour, if you want to talk alittle bit about the way that
you see the importance offinancial management as a part
of a regenerative business.
Darren Story (47:13):
Sure.
We owe it to our consumers.
Affordable quality is a bigdeal for us.
And uh in our opinion, organiccannabis has to be affordable
and accessible to alldemographics.
It's already hard enough withthe taxes.
I think the taxes are thebiggest challenge in the
industry still today.
So we owe it to our consumersto be able to produce uh an
(47:35):
affordable quality product at aprice that they can reach that
is a daily consumer, you know,someone should be able to
consume our product three tofour times a week and and be
able to afford it.
And um, it's just part of ourbusiness practices, part of our
ethos.
Like it's we're very driven inthat aspect.
And if they can't afford it,we'll just give it to them.
(47:56):
Like, like I said, you know, wewe started growing weed for
wham.
It's a compassionate useprogram.
I like to brag.
I don't brag about a lot ofthings.
One of the things I do bragabout is I I guarantee you we're
um donating more SP34 donationsthan any company in the state,
but we encourage everybody to doit, so it's pretty fun.
But we actually grow a certainpercentage of our our products
(48:18):
and all our partner farms pitchin, they're all in on it.
We grow a certain percentagestrictly for SP34, just so we
can support these programs.
And SP34 is California's umcompassionate use program, which
allows us to donate weed topatients without being taxed or
or or cost money.
So yeah, it's just we have tocontinue getting better in that
(48:38):
regard.
That's being mission-driven tous means continuing to make this
affordable to all consumers.
And like I know it sucks for alot of people that are like, oh,
the price of weed's so low.
It's like it needs to go lower,in my opinion, unfortunately.
Um, but the great news isthere's a lot of farmers like
originally, they were like usedto growing, you know, $1,300
(49:00):
outdoor pounds, and now we'reall fine with where it's at, and
our whole network of or legacyorganic growers, we're all
making a comfortable living.
Like no one in our in ournetwork is is not profitable.
So we're all figuring outtogether, and you know, maybe
we're not driving fancy cars,but you know, we're serving the
patients, and it's you know,like I said, it's a community,
(49:22):
so everyone's winning.
Ben Larson (49:23):
That's really great to hear.
And I'm just so inspired byyour drive, your mission, and
how you're doing it.
I want to know what successlooks like to you over the next
call it five years.
So 2030, you've beenprogressing, the movement, the
regenerative farming.
What are we looking at in fiveyears?
(49:44):
What what what have youaccomplished of like what are
you proud of?
Darren Story (49:47):
It's so hard to say, right?
Well, we want to grow 28% eachyear.
So however we get there, likewe're just trying to be, you
know, moderate growth.
I know the companies that growtoo fast, they have trouble
getting the right people andputting them in the right
places, and they end upfrittering away some of their
capital.
So we don't want to outgrowourselves.
We don't want to outgrow ourability to find the right
(50:08):
people.
So, you know, wherever 1.28 tothe fifth power is where I hope
our revenue is.
Um, if we're anything betterthan that, that's great.
Um, how do we get there?
We get there with continuing toserve our consumers and making
sure that they are veryappreciative and and appreciate
and you know getting what theydeserve as far as quality and
(50:30):
affordability, continuing togrow our farm network, teaching
our farmers and and you know,all of us just teaching each
other how to grow better cropsmore efficiently and you know in
a more planet-friendly fashion,and hopefully exporting to
other areas or or going to otherareas and teaching those
farmers how to grow.
But I'd really like to be ableto export it.
You know, I do like Californiafor look, California is great
(50:54):
for everything except thepolitics, right?
Like everything else is amazinghere, the people, the you know,
the geography.
Yeah, that's where I'd like tobe in five years.
But success to me, just likeit's also an industry-wide
thing.
Like, I just want to seecannabis continue to push
forward and become more adopted.
You know, consumers justcontinue treating their own
(51:14):
personal ailments with withcannabis and coming up with
innovative ways to to utilize itand and work it into their tool
chest.
AnnaRae Grabstein (51:22):
Hell yeah.
Well, so we're at the hour.
It's time to hear a last callfrom you, Darren.
So, what's your final messagefor our listeners?
Advice, call to action, closingthought.
Darren Story (51:34):
Uh, my my final call is that health is is your
choice.
Your genetics don't dictateyour lot in life, that you can
overcome any obstacle.
And you should just take healthand wellness in your own hands
and and be serious about it.
And you know, there's companiesout there like us that want to
be a part of that journey withyou.
Ben Larson (51:53):
We can overcome any obstacle.
I think that's a great note toend on.
Even lay even legislation.
That's right.
That's right.
AnnaRae Grabstein (52:04):
Love that.
Ben Larson (52:04):
Darren Story, Coastal Sun.
Thank you so much for spendingthe last hour with us.
It was it was truly a pleasure.
Thank you.
Darren Story (52:11):
Yeah, likewise.
Appreciate you guys.
Ben Larson (52:14):
What do you guys think?
Pretty awesome, right?
Are you gonna go find somecoastal sun?
Go get yourself someregenerative cannabis.
I want to thank our guests, myco-host Anna Ray, our producer,
Eric Rossetti, and of course ourteams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer.
If you've enjoyed this episode,please stop, like, subscribe,
(52:34):
share, do all the things.
Our audience continues to grow.
We're excited to see you inVegas at MJ Biz.
Come hang out.
It will be a great time.
As always, folks, stay curious,stay informed, and most
importantly, keep your spiritshigh.
Until next time, that's theshow.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com