March 1, 2021 • 57 mins
In this episode, Karl Unnasch joins Matthew Fluharty for a conversation on his creative process, rural community, and bridging difference between cultures and geographies. Husk, his metal and stained glass sculpture of a crushed Busch Light can, is included in the High Visibility exhibition.
A rugged farm upbringing streaked with a penchant for the surreal: This has been the driving force behind the work of Karl Unnasch. With decades of expertise in wood, metal, stonework and stained glass, phantasmagorical combinations of media have become his hallmark. Backed by a comprehensive education in the arts (MFA 2003), his notions morph into works that toy with nostalgia, knitting together sources of collective memory while ringing with an element of his own whimsy.
Unnasch’s smaller-scale work has been exhibited as far as Europe and acclaimed in publications such as the New York Times and Art in London Magazine, while his larger-scale, award-winning public art has been featured on the likes of NBC’s Today show, Reader’s Digest and Voice of America. For over a decade, Unnasch has focused primarily on public and architectural art, typically incorporating backlit stained glass into sculptural installations. His work adorns educational facilities, banks, theaters, libraries, museum grounds, businesses and public gathering spaces across North America.
To dive deeper into Karl Unnasch's work:
http://www.karlunnasch.com/
For more information on the High Visibility exhibition at the Plains Art Museum:
https://plainsart.org/exhibitions/high-visibility/
High Visibility exhibition site: https://inhighvisibility.org/
In this conversation, Karl mentions the following works:
Operant, at the Rose Kennedy Greenway in Boston:
http://www.karlunnasch.com/project-pages/operant/2019-05-operant-an-oldowonk-cataract-stained-glass-dump-truck.html
Ruminant, in Reedsburg, Wisconsin:
http://www.karlunnasch.com/project-pages/ruminant/2013-10-ruminant-stained-glass-harvesting-combine.html
Slumgullion, at the Philbrook Museum of Art in Tulsa:
http://www.karlunnasch.com/project-pages/slumgullion/2018-10-slumgullion-the-venerate-outpost-philbrook-museum-tulsa-log-cabin.html
At the conclusion of our time together, Karl mentions some music that has been moving him lately:
Sturgill Simpson:
https://www.sturgillsimpson.com/
Waylon Payne:
https://waylonpaynemusic.co/
The HU:
https://www.thehuofficial.com/
We are grateful for the support of the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts and the National Endowment for the Arts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matthew Fluharty (00:07):
Hello, you're listening to high visibility.
This podcast welcomes intoconversation artists, culture
bearers and leaders from acrossrural America in Indian country,
and is produced by art of therural and Plains Art Museum. Our
podcast is produced inconjunction with a high
(00:28):
visibility exhibition, acollaboratively curated effort
currently on view at Plains ArtMuseum through May 30 2021. My
name is Matthew Fluharty, andI'm the organizing curator. In
the month ahead, I'll be withyou, along with other hosts from
the Plains Art Museum andbeyond. As this podcast shares
(00:48):
the richly divergent stories,lived experiences and visions of
folks across the continent. Youcan learn more about visiting
high visibility exhibition anddive deeper into the artists and
works included here by visitingplains art.org. We welcome folks
to also check out the shownotes, where we'll offer artists
(01:10):
websites, alongside images oftheir work and further resources
and connections. We're gratefulfor the support of the Andy
Warhol foundation for the visualarts, and the National Endowment
for the Arts in making thisexhibition and podcast possible.
Today we're talking with CarlLuna. from his home and studio
(01:31):
in pilot mountain, Minnesota, atown located within Dakota
homelands, called creates publicstructures that often
incorporate stained glass, wood,metal and other materials.
Through placing rural narrativeswithin the ecological, social
and historical traditions ineach site. Call create
structures with playful,nostalgic, and often provocative
(01:54):
illusions. While manycontemporary artists have
incorporated vernacular elementsof their lived rural experience
into their creative vision, doproduce work that so subtly
offends cultural expectations ofsubject matter and form carlu
nosh His work has been exhibitedwidely in North America and
beyond, and has been featured inoutlets as diverse as the New
(02:15):
York Times are in Londonmagazine. NBC is today's show,
and farm show magazine. His workadorns educational facilities,
banks, theaters, libraries,museum grounds, and public
gathering spaces across NorthAmerica. This conversation was
recorded in mid February 2021.
In a moment when theinsurrection at the United
(02:37):
States Capitol felt more like anunfolding condition than a
memory or a piece of recenthistory. throughout those
events, I thought a great dealabout husk. Karl's contribution
to the high visibilityexhibition. husk is a large
scale stained glass and metalsculpture of a crushed bush
light can an object found sooften littered in ditches,
(03:00):
roadsides, in lots across ruralareas. Carl sees its presence is
what he calls a multi layeredstereotype. One that in a
painful and contradictory waycommunicates rugged
individualism, ecologicaldisregard, in a lot of emotional
and spiritual damage. Along theway in this conversation, we
(03:24):
also touch on his upbringing ona multi generational self
sustaining farm and on what hisdaily life looks like now in his
rural community. Carl referencesa few pieces that we'll share on
the show notes so that folks candive deeper. The first is
operant a mixed mediainstallation at the Rose Kennedy
Greenway in Boston thatacknowledges the construction
(03:46):
workers and laborers who createdthe city's Big Dig underground
interstate connector. Another isruminant a stained glass
installation within a corncombine in reedsburg, Wisconsin,
and also slum Gallian areclaimed log cabin
installation, the future stainedglass art glass and resin bonded
textiles. This located at thephilbrook Museum of Art in
(04:10):
Tulsa, Oklahoma. So withoutfurther ado, please settle in
and enjoy our conversation withCarl who nosh. So, Carl, welcome
to high visibility.
Karl Unnasch (04:25):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. I'm looking forwardto this. Thank you.
Matthew Fluharty (04:28):
It is really great to have you as the first
guest. And it's an honor to havehusk on view at the Plains Art
Museum for the high visibilityshow. I think as I've just been
thinking just as one person inthe midst of the last couple of
weeks of life in this nationhusk has come up a lot and I
know we'll get to husk later onin our conversation but I'm
(04:51):
grateful and I'm just reallyexcited for our conversation
today. Because I think you knowyour work touches on indirect
and and in indirect ways, anumber of the elements of like
what a academic might callmorality, but it does so went
away with force in humor, andhumanity that really disarms a
lot of those concepts. You know,and I, I was even thinking about
(05:15):
that, just to give our listenerssome context. In the days
leading up to this conversation,pretty much every cliched thing
that happens to a first podcastepisode happened. And it kind of
culminated hours before we weregoing to talk with my
realization that the mic and themonitor system we were using,
(05:38):
wasn't working. And this momentcame upon me as I was racing, to
a big box store that's on theoutskirts of my town to pick up
this microphone that I thinkperhaps to, to some audiences,
you know, I live in Winona,Minnesota, you live in pilot
(06:01):
mound, some folks might assumethat our experiences of morality
are the same. However, even acouple of miles down the road,
how we're living and how we'reexperiencing community are sort
of vastly divergent, you know,and it took me back to a moment
when I was in conversation withMary welcome, who is another
(06:22):
really powerful artists doingwork across rural and rural
urban space. And she talkedabout the gradients of rural
experience. One of the ways ofthinking about at least being
centered around how far you arefrom a Walmart, which was, I
didn't go to Walmart to pick upthe mic, but it was close, like
this, the same, the same speciesof place to pick up this mic at
(06:46):
the last second, it made methink about all of the ways in
which, you know, because yourwork is taking place, in
galleries and in public spacesall around the country. It made
me think about the ways in whichyou're probably often called
upon to speak to the ruralexperience, and to speak to
those gradients of rural lifethat are wildly diverse,
(07:10):
although they're often onlyportrayed as being one
dimensional.
Karl Unnasch (07:14):
I have one experience that stands apart
with being able to bridge thegap between urban and rural that
that is the reason it's it'scomes it comes to the fore
hairs, it's very precious asit's called out of the blue to
provide a piece for the RoseKennedy Greenway in Boston.
2019, Lucas Cohen, the leadcurator contacted me and reached
(07:41):
out and said, Hey, I'd reallylike to see a piece of yours out
here. And for the public toexperience I'm like, Whoa, I
mean, you get one, that's thefirst big one you get when you
look at it, and you go, alright,who's who's pulling my leg here?
This is this is obviously morejunk mail and you dig into it,
and then you do the, you know,the back checking online, you're
(08:03):
like, Oh, this is random byNicola is like it? Is this
legit. It's like that disbeliefof Holy crap. Alright, this is
important, I guess. So contactedback had a conversation or two,
and found out it was totallylegit. And it's like, Okay, once
that's okay. And I was like,okay, somebody actually wants to
listen to somebody from out inthe sticks, apparently. And
(08:26):
that's, that's a good thing. Allright, I'm on I'm up. Let's do
this. So I'm happy to providethat. So meeting him going out
to Boston meeting, meeting withLukas just sitting down and
holding pull ever finding outwhere your connections are with
this person. As far as fromcultural familiarity. Being able
(08:47):
to have a conversation, mosttimes that I've had
conversations with the curatorsand artists that come from a
metropolitan area, there'sreally not a lot for me to
provide because it feels andthis is, you know, obviously I'm
a little jaded here, butconsistently, I felt like
there's really not much for meto offer, because I don't
(09:09):
consistently live in theirbackyard, and not a metropolitan
artist. I'm never going to be ametropolitan artist. I don't
want to be a metropolitanartist. However, when I found
out that Lucas was from Detroit,and we had some Midwestern
sensibilities that lined up, wefound out that, you know, aside
from stereotypical unexpectedcontrasts, we actually had
(09:34):
plenty in common that we couldfind common ground on and that
just reaffirm this like I'mdoing the right thing, in a way
it was like, it's I use kind ofa welding analogy is, is that
familiarity helped provide lessarc and more contact, to be able
to get a more firm adhesion ofhow we could communicate. So we
(10:00):
We carried on, shuffled left andfound out, you know, I developed
an idea that was relative to thesite and relative to the place
and relative to the region thatI actually had some familiarity
with. And out of that was born,the the piece I did for them
with the dump truck in the inthe stained glass, and then in
(10:21):
the junk class in it.
Matthew Fluharty (10:23):
Carl, who were the artists? See, when you are
you were when you were in theearly stages of your own
development, who you found, eventhough they might have been
coming from a different context,and, you know, maybe weren't,
weren't raised in the upperMidwest, like where you found
that those same values? Youknow, that the question you
spoke about earlier of, sort oflooking at a scene and feeling
(10:44):
the value and wanting to be apositive contributor, towards a
sense of community that's deeperthan just an individual? I mean,
were there was there an artistor a work that kind of bridged
that gap between being, being ayoung person in a community to,
to being someone who wanted tocreate work to contribute to
that artistic conversation? Wasthere a moment like a moment
(11:06):
like that for you?
Karl Unnasch (11:09):
Not Not, not as an artist, not not a not a creative
problem solver. It was always,it was always somebody who ended
up being fulfilling like a sagerole in the community. And it
depended on the community aswell, like paying attention to
some of the old farts, the oldcottages that would reach out, I
(11:29):
mean, these are guys, you know,get a full, full Chyna to
tobacco juice, and then spit onthe ground. And then look over
at a kid that, you know, tosstheir cigarette down, he goes,
you pick that up feel just son,and the kid give a look, he
goes, That's not where you gotit from. So feel just and put it
in your pocket. And, and the kidwould listen to that person and
more often than not, and do it.
And it's not like a matter of Ididn't never, I never saw that
(11:53):
as somebody trying to controlsomebody else. I saw it as
someone caring enough aboutwhere their footprints lied. And
trying to let someone else know,hey, you're part of this too. I
think people that I gained,gained some knowledge from were
the ones that took the time tothink through that a job isn't
(12:16):
done. Until you clean up. Thenyou get to go have a sip of
whiskey. You don't get to dothat until you sweep the floor
until you clean up till you putyour shit away.
So artists, I've gainedexcellent knowledge and skills
(12:36):
about how to navigate the artworld by dealing with artists.
But to be a better artist, I hadto step away from artists and
become a better me I had to endthis is my motto now is be your
damn self. And me sticking withthat if I can stick with that. I
think I can weather any storm.
(12:58):
So Carl,
Matthew Fluharty (12:59):
I think it was in Winona, Minnesota, where you
first began to work with stainedglass as a medium of expression
for your sculptures. I mean,what was that a springboard from
your early work towards the morecontemporary pieces now that
audiences might recognize.
Karl Unnasch (13:18):
I answered of all things a newspaper ad when I was
going through undergrad, andwhen I was at university, and I
knew I didn't want to work inany sort of factory slash, quote
unquote, regular job. But yet Ianswered an ad for a regular
job. But I happened to be in aninteresting industry. And it was
(13:39):
stained glass industry. You knowwhat? No, no, Minnesota is calls
itself the stained glass capitalof the United States, back in
the day used to have the moststained glass companies per
capita of any sin. And a lot ofwillen Hauser still based out of
there, or at least its mothercompanies based out of there
because I know they've gottenpretty big and eaten up all the
smaller companies. I learned ina day, how to cut glass, how to
(14:03):
pull apart an old window to fixit, and how to put one together
I learned that in a day. And tothis day, you know, 30 years
later, I still haven't perfectedit. And that's okay. Because
it's a craft based medium thattakes it has it has the
(14:26):
capability of being anythingfrom a hobby that fulfills
someone for their entire life,or an unrelenting quest for
someone to perfect themselveslike the Judas factor. who still
I would bet as much as she isthe creme de la creme of the
stained glass world as far asI'm concerned. When it comes to
(14:49):
fine art craft, but I will stillbet that she says oh I still
have a lot to learn. stainedglass. fits that. That that is
the key Did that lock in mybrain where I sit there and go?
Okay, what am I going to try todo this, this this this week?
What am I going to try toincorporate into a window that's
going to challenge me? And atthe same time, the people that
(15:11):
see it from the hobbyist mindsetthat goes, Well, that's really
isn't that nice? Isn't that niceto the people that on the high
end that go, Hmm, I see thatyou're bringing some of these
skills from that era. And at thesame time, this glass comes from
cocoa, and then other glass iscoming from the spectrum company
out west. Oh, okay, I see whyyou blended those glasses
(15:32):
together. So you put why you putthat one, and then all of a
sudden, it gets hyper analyzed.
on the high end, I get that, forme. I'm bringing something that
has all those aspects. And thethe and that, that that goddamn
nostalgia, of living really, ina country church, you have that
little taste of high end craft,in this house of worship, where
(15:55):
people come together in acommunity to have some sort of
genuine exchange, as a group, asa tribe, as a as a as a, as a
game plan, whatever, you know,whatever term you want to use,
that's there there. The emphasisof their learning and their
expansion and their growth as acommunity. So why not use that
(16:18):
in a sculpture? why not bringthat into the fine arts world
and really knock it out andstart questioning everything you
do with the questions that comefrom using it, it generates more
questions than answers. And Ithink that's key as well. I cut
one piece of glass, it'll beroom temperature, I'll have a
(16:39):
nice oiled wheel, I can scoreit, I can snap it, and it'll
just sing. That stuff just singswhen it pops open. All these
fulfilling aspects when you doit, right. It's like riding a
bike, and you finally as a kid,get the training wheels off and
you're like you feel that zoneof balance, you're not tipping
left, you're not tipping, right,you're, you're going straight
down on your bike. And when youcan do that, with cutting state
(17:01):
just cutting stained glassalone, I don't have to be a
master artist at anything, justlearning how to cut glass alone
is fulfilling in in and ofitself. But getting to that
point where you feel it, and itbecomes inherent. I know a lot
of other artists that do a lotof repetitive actions of their
work. Once you get into thatzone, and then the flow starts,
(17:23):
oh, boy, that should just singsand you can hear the music
coming off it to bring that intoyour work is intimidating in and
of itself. And a lot of peoplewill never realize that all the
things we do that they neverrealize what it takes to get to
that point.
Matthew Fluharty (17:41):
Carl hearing you you talk about the process.
I mean, the one one goes throughwith stained glass, it takes me
back, I am going to I'm going tosay this line and probably run
over over the car a couple timesjust and make them make a
mockery of how it actuallysounds. But this, this line that
William Butler Yeats has an Apoem, where he says essentially,
(18:01):
you know, we, we might work amonth on a line, just for it to
appear as if it was a moment'sthought, you know, it has to,
has to feel unfiltered, almostlike, like it comes from a
different place beyond toil. Ittakes me back to those notions
of joy and fulfillment, youknow, the ease with which we,
when we see work that is reallywell achieved. We know the work
(18:23):
is there, but it also takes ussomewhere beyond it as an
audience. And thinking aboutthis actually takes me back to
the first experience I had withyour work, which was the
ruminant the Grand masticator,which was in reedsburg,
Wisconsin, I believe it was acollaboration with art slink
reedsburg I believe the wormfarm Institute was also involved
(18:46):
with an element of that. And inthinking about that piece, and
then also thinking about thework which which came after it
in your own creative chronology.
It does, it again centers aroundthis zone of nostalgia in a way
that's different than the way Ithink that nostalgia has been
(19:07):
really weaponized in rural areasin the last six years or so. And
I think we you know, we see in astyle that can actually be
productive and creative and itcan be an element which can
bring forward human andcommunity relations that are not
necessarily restrictive andjudgmental. I mean, it can be an
appeal an appeal to the past butalso an appeal forward into the
(19:31):
future. I've just given you mylike poetic back of the jacket
quote for the book on ruminantbut I mean like Could you just
share a little bit about likeabout that piece and how it how
it came about and especially howit sits now in reedsburg as well
like how it just functions ineveryday life.
Karl Unnasch (19:50):
That was a big stepping stepping up point of
future large work. undertakingthat was a good was a was a
really great start. It If Icould use one word to describe
it, it's a tribute it's in thelonger version of that answer is
it's a tribute to all of the thepeople, not necessarily farmers,
(20:13):
but it's it's obviously it'sagriculturally centric because
it's a combine means combineharvester. But it's specifically
from an era that I recognize ashaving some of the last great
vestiges of the, of the, the,the gentlemen farmers and the
and the country wives, you know,to go with back with that
(20:34):
nostalgia now. Obviously,that's, that's the mythologized
way of seeing a point in historythat I existed in at a coming of
age, and experiencing itfirsthand, literally, by, you
know, doing all the work thatentailed being a self being self
(20:56):
sufficient farm. In that time,in the in the mid 80s, the early
70s, a mid 80s tribute needs tobe given to the people that bust
their ass. So if it's a saluteto blue collar work, so be it,
if it's a salute to, you know,better times, so be it, you
know, I accept that I, that I'vesigned up for that, because
(21:17):
guess what, there were bettertimes, there were because, and I
mean, that, that the people thatexisted in plied their trade,
using this combine, going tothese country churches, and, and
confessing their sins and, andpraying their peace, and hoping
for better times in in gracethat they needed to just get by
(21:41):
because they were writing theirown playbooks to, to try to
survive without a lot of outwardsupport. And we all know that,
that that is, that is the LauraIngalls Wilder version of
driving a tractor. But there's alot about it that created, you
(22:06):
know, a good lifestyle for a lotof people, it was a better time
than the people that had beforeleading up to that, you know, I
wasn't, it wasn't anything towalk around and family reunions
and see, see people missingfingers and hat and having lost
an eye or living with a limp.
You know, scars are everywhere.
And there's a reason becausethey earned them. You know,
(22:31):
that's why I think in and I canspeak to this too, you know, if
we're gonna go sociopoliticalfor a second, I can see why
people have a hair acrosserasked about, you know, being
open arms about change in therural areas, and being afraid of
what's coming next. Becausethere's a lot of them that
worked so hard to get where theyare, and they're scared. And I
(22:55):
tell this to people on both endsof the spectrum, politically,
you're dealing with reallyscared people, and they don't
have a playbook anymore, to tellthem how to survive this, what's
coming, because they don't knowwhat's coming. But they think
it's bad. And they're convincedit's bad, because they have no
other recourse but to sit thereand guess. And they're left to
(23:17):
guess. Now, I'm not going tovilify it as many people as I
can about, you know, all thepolitical crap that's been going
on. Because guess what I'm in,I'm in the thick of, you know,
the rural area. So I have todeal with these people on daily
basis, I don't have theconvenience of living in a place
where everyone around me, I canlook around, I don't live in a
(23:41):
heavily urbanized place where Ican look around and go, Okay, I
feel safe here. Because I knowwe have a network of systems in
place that's going to keep mesafe. When I'm out in the
country, it goes back to knowingyour neighbors, if you know your
neighbors, you know how to dealwith them. That doesn't just
mean that you know how to helpthem. You also know how far you
can tread.
Matthew Fluharty (24:02):
I think what I think is powerful, about, about
the way that you're usingnostalgia in your work, just, I
mean, just really just based onwhat what you just shared is
that you can take one step intoa an envision nostalgic, rural
(24:22):
scene, and there are so many ofthem. I mean, they're
culturally, just at the edge ofthe table. But I think in your
work, and I think also in theways that you talk about your
work, what's revealed veryquickly, is how layered both are
orientation to that past andthat nostalgia, whether we're
(24:44):
from a rural place or an urbanplace or suburban place, but
also how layered the actualreact reality was in terms of
that experience in the past. Andif I could shift gears just
slightly here. I mean, that'ssort of Sort of indeterminant
kind of liminal space, also, ina strange way is kind of
(25:06):
analogous, I think, to the spacethat your work occupies really
broadly, in that, as you weresharing earlier, your work, I
love this example, you know,your work has appeared both in
the farm show magazine, and theNew York Times, and innumerable
art publications that are thatare embedded within sort of the
(25:27):
structure of the arts andcultural, you know, ecosystem in
this country and beyond. So thiswork itself kind of is situated
between on one hand, reallyconceptual conversation about
what the pieces and maybe whatwhat it echoes in sort of the
artistic or cultural tradition.
Yet it also is just by virtue ofwho you are as a person, really
(25:48):
authentically situated withinthe rural experience that you
have growing up where you grewup and living, where you live.
And slum golian is a piece thatfor me, it really just it's kind
of a balance between those twothings in a very powerful way.
And what I love about it, and ifyou'll allow me this, is I just
(26:11):
want to read a short quote thatyou wrote, sort of in the
materials related to the peace,which explains some elements of
what slim golian is up to. Andthen there's the whole Converse,
there's the whole story abouthow the peace came into being
itself, which is like reallyfascinating to me. But But
(26:33):
first, here's what you wroteabout slumgullion. You said the
American log cabin offers astack of associations. It's
served as a home in which tospend a lifetime as a temporary
dwelling for laborers. And as agateway from urban chaos. This
stood as a symbol of ruralgumption, nationalistic pride,
(26:55):
abject poverty, political cloutand colonial incursion. And here
we're talking about a stainedglass and sort of multi material
sculpture that is down in Tulsaat the philbrook. And I love
this because we're talking abouta log cabin, but your language
itself exposes how, how deep,how complicated, and how
(27:19):
divergent so many of thoseresonances are even within the
concept of a log cabin. Um, sothat's a very large preamble for
talking about slim Gallian. I'mcurious if you could kind of
leave us with a thread into thispiece. And maybe first leading
us into how did this piece comeinto existence in the first
place, what what's the backstorybehind it
Karl Unnasch (27:42):
was on a fishing trip with my buddy Koop,
northern Wisconsin. And I was inthe middle of rebuilding an
actual log cabin that was on my,at the time my parents farm I
grew up on we use that buildingfor as a chicken coop but also
as a building to where theheifers could have their calves,
(28:06):
especially in the wintertime. Sowe can throw bedding in there to
stay warm enough so that theywould have a decent place to, to
have their calf. So it was itwas a multi use building. But we
all knew that ever used to besomeone's home. Even as a kid I
recognize the the value ofknowing that without knowing.
(28:32):
Because when you're told thesedisparate things growing up
without any other context otherthan what you're doing everyday,
when you're picking shit out ofthis old log cabin. You're still
thinking at least I was in thetime doing it that repetitive
act. I looked around I was like,people lived in here. They slept
in here. They who knows theymight have had their kids in
(28:52):
here. And I just like, this wassomeone's home. And it's solid,
solid structure, simpleconstruction that held that held
up through the test of time. Nocode. No, no rules other than
this is how gravity works. Thisis how a sharp blade works. This
(29:13):
is how trees grow figured out.
So what's that thattransgression between I don't
know. I wouldn't call ittransgression. This is
transformation of evolutionbetween a Earth and a boat or a
cave and architecture. And I wason a fishing trip in northern
Wisconsin. Stopped at this placealong the road jeans, antiques,
(29:37):
and furniture Emporium. And itwas basically roadside junk shop
on on the highway leading up toEagle River and went inside.
There's this old cowboy walkingaround who was the owner
obviously. And he had thatinteresting swagger to him of
very comfortable in his ownskin. As I was looking around, I
(29:58):
was looking around for any kindof old hinges, iron hinges, or
hasps, or, or anything thatwould shout out, hey, this needs
to be incorporated, because itwould look really good and do a
good job functionally, as acomponent of the cabinet and
rebuilding. So I was looking forhardware. And the old guy
(30:18):
saunters up to me, he says,Well, what can I help you with?
And I'm like, I'm looking forthis and I'm doing this cabin
I'm doing as he goes, you likelog cabins?
I got one for sale. And I'mlike, No, shit.
Okay, let's go. Look. I droppedthe downpayment on this thing to
(30:41):
hold it for me, because I knewthat it wouldn't go anywhere. I
recognized the footprint. I sawthe logs firsthand, they were
all jumbled all over. But Icould see that they were in
great shape. And he showed me apicture of his son as a
construction guy, and he and hisson had salvaged it. So I'd
respect for that, too. And hisson had taken a picture of it,
(31:05):
as it was re stacked after itwas pulled apart. So I never
even got to see a picture of itin its, quote, unquote, original
form. And even from that pictureof two sides of it, I could see
that it was it had value. Longstory short is I knew Scott
stolen and mentioned it to himin passing few years prior is
(31:26):
like, if you ever run acrosssomeone who wants to turn this
into an art piece, you let meknow. And I will do the
damnedest that I can to make itbombastic. Well, at the time, I
didn't realize that he was goingto head down a road and actually
be one of those people that hewas supposed to talk to. He
ended up working his way and heended up being the director,
(31:48):
president of the philbrook inTulsa. Any he hollered out he
goes, Carl is like Hey, what'sup? He goes, you still got that
log cabin. I was like, Yes, Ido. He goes, let's talk as like,
Okay. And through some meetingsand understanding how we wanted
to go about it, we figured outhow to turn it into something
(32:10):
useful for Philbrick, and giveit a permanent home.
Matthew Fluharty (32:14):
So slumgullion physically is a really great
metaphor for how from adistance, we have an orientation
to something but then we getcloser and we realize how
layered and how complex andoftentimes how beautiful
something is. I mean, could youjust kind of narrate for us, for
folks who haven't been to Tulsato the philbrook? What the
(32:34):
pieces that came out of thisamazing story. I mean, from a
distance, it looks like a cabin,and you're like, Oh, this cabin
is lit up with stained glass. Imean, that is that's the one
sense sensory perception that anaudience member would have
standing maybe 2530 feet awaywhat when they walk into the
experience,
Karl Unnasch (32:53):
well, on the right day, if it's daytime, and it's
bright enough while you walkinside, and the first thing that
you're going to have happen isyou're going to be inundated
with color from every everydirection except for maybe the
floor and even I tried to worksome of that into it has to be
this overwhelming symphony ofcolor from every angle from the
(33:15):
windows from the walls from theceiling. And that has to come
through with stained glass inthe in the windows themselves.
From the ceilings. Clear it's aclear decking made of
polycarbonate with resin castcloth as singles. So you're
basically sitting under orstanding under a quilt that is a
(33:36):
ceiling if it's working right.
And then the lanterns as wellthat are made from reclaimed
colored glass are hanging, youknow, all over the ceiling. And
with their little flickeringorange lights to sparkling and
flickering, plus all of theresin bound cloth that's tucked
in the walls. During the day thelights filtering through but at
(33:58):
night, the LED lights that areembedded in them turn on to so
it glows from within andwithout. And the chimney to the
even though even though the fakefireplace has a reclaimed and
Glass Menagerie to it.
There's a quote that you gave tocraft magazine. You're on the
(34:19):
cover of craft magazine into thelarge feature on this piece. And
you said I made the ceiling androof ostentatious to get people
to look up literally andmetaphorically. It's something
people don't do a lot nowadays.
And I read this quote inpreparation for writing about
your work for the highvisibility newspaper. And what
struck me is that husksculpture, which is included in
(34:43):
the high visibility exhibitionat the Plains Art Museum, is
asking folks to think almostliterally and metaphorically
about the act of looking downCan you lead us into Some of the
life experiences andinspirations that led to the
creation of hoskin for folks whocan't come to the Plains Art
(35:06):
Gallery yet. We welcome you togo online to in high
visibility.org to check out thepiece itself, but this piece is
in keeping with some of yourprevious pieces in that it it is
stained glass and steel. And itis as one draws closer to a much
like slim Gallian. One realizesthat it is literally and
(35:29):
metaphorically to use you justuse your words, a representation
of a crushed bush light can. Howdid how did you approach this
piece? Where did this piece comefrom for you as an artist?
It goes back to constantlyseeing trash riding the
backroads. You see trash in theditches. So let's let that be an
(35:55):
inspiration. So I look at that.
And now I'm, you know, pandemicstarting last March last. I get
back from California in March, Istarted going for walks. Even
though I'm used to living thecountry, I also self quarantine
for two weeks after being awayfrom my week, my family for a
week. So I'm going on to threeweeks not being around my
(36:18):
family, and they're right there.
So I'm like, okay, you know thatthis is gonna be hard. But
you've lived through blizzards,you know what it's like to live
out in the country, you betterstart getting busy getting busy.
So I got busy and cleaned andbuilt and worked on my house and
made more work. But also I hadto move my ass and get away from
(36:41):
the place that I was tied downto have the studio in the house.
So I'm out the country and gofor a walk, go for walk in and
wave at neighbors as I go by aholler out. So at least get some
of that going on. As I'mwalking. I may as well make
myself useful, I get busygetting busy. So I bring bags
with and I pick up trash as Igo. And once my bags full, I
(37:05):
turn around and or once my bagsare half full, I turn around I
head back home. So I knew how togauge how far I was gonna walk
didn't matter for the time orthe distance. It's what my bags
would let me allow me to how farto go. I got back and I noticed
that the the high frequency ofthings that I saw were bush
(37:28):
light cans like it, it blewaway. All the other things that
I was picking up. It was mostlypushed like cans. I was like,
Okay, this means something.
Let's think about it. Couplewhiskies later, I think, you
know what, that's the preferredbeverage of the people that I'm
familiar with. In my region. I'mlike, Huh. And then I got to
(37:52):
thinking about why that's thething we do as artists, we have
to ask why otherwise, we justaccept without knowing we
provide our own context, we fillin the gaps. Well, I'd rather
fill my gaps and with somethingthat's a little more familiar.
So I start thinking about whywell, it's the cheapest for the
buzz. It's it's not a terribleflavor for beer, but at the same
(38:14):
time, it's you know, near water.
So you can drink quite a few isstill say you're drinking beer,
and not, you know, drive in theditch, you know, let's be
honest, these people thrownthese out, or our booze cruzan.
Just like we all grew up doing.
Not saying it's right or wrong,I'm saying this is what it is.
So it's an observationalstandpoint. But also, I'm
(38:34):
immersed in it because I've donemy share of booze cruise. And
however, I can honestly say I'venever thrown a cat out a window.
And that's the thing, you know,I live by the rule of the
litter, you throw in the back ofthe truck. And then they pile up
in the back of the truck. Soanyway, I started taking
pictures of them in situ beforeI picked them up. So these
(38:55):
untouched, found objects withthe context of only where
they're discovered. And theystart becoming my own little
truffles, my own little morelmushrooms, my own little gnomes
out in the woods. And everyoneis different. And everyone is
it's in its own differentcontext. So I've been posting
one on Instagram per day since Istarted doing that. As of today,
(39:19):
I think I'm up to 308. And I'mthinking it'll probably be just
a year's worth, and we'll callit good to go with the length of
the time that I started doingthis for the piece. I started
looking at the shapes, I'm veryfamiliar with a crushed can
shape it's also a, you know,something straight out of the
vernacular context of this iswhat is a finished fetishized
(39:41):
object from my culture, if Icould say that, but yet it's a
chunk of litter that pisses meoff, but yet, it's also a
corporate item for someone tomake more money off us, you
know, poor folk out in thecountry and yet it's also
beautiful. And yet, it's amalleable object, and yet it
could provide inspiration. Andyet, I can still turn that into
(40:04):
this dynamic concept of what itis that I'm and getting to
death. So I bought a 30 pack ofbush light, got a friend to come
over and we drank a few and gotto be in a chemically induced
state. And then I say, right, Iwant to make some sculpture now,
I'm gonna make some mcats. And Istarted making the cat in the
(40:28):
studio, like you do. And eachcan became the potential object
but with be trying to crush itinto an interesting, yet
unfamiliar, yet familiar shapeat the same time to find that
good blend of sculpted, yethappenstance.
(40:51):
And I got to thinking aboutculture, and thinking about the
dying Gaul, which is one of mymost favorite human figure base
sculptures that I've ever comeacross and seeing the different
versions of them. And thinkingabout a rebellious dying culture
that just will not give up,which is what a lot of, we see
(41:16):
coming from the culture that I'min this and I'll be and I'm
going to say it out loud. Thiswhite massage dentist,
patriarchical culture is dying,thank God. So my commentary on
(41:39):
that is, the people that I seearound me that are digging in
with their tooth and nail to notlet go of this nostalgia are the
new dyeing galls. And this is aperfect representation. So I
considered the shape and form ofthis Viking is biking biker type
vandal guy, but figure dyeing,yet still trying to push away
(42:04):
from gravity and one lasteffort. How can I transfer that
to the shape of a crush beer canand that took 30 to arrive at
that I can definitively say ittook a 30 pack of bush like
literally to get to that pointand picked out the right shape
after vetting it through some.
Which one do you think which oneyou think and getting a survey
(42:26):
from people of all differentbackgrounds, which one looks
like a finger with its knee upas kind of bent over as well,
that one and then I wanted toknow why they thought that. And
that's how I came about turningit into a larger than life
version of that bush like andlike and, and and pixelating it
like is done by fracturing thesurface and just paying
(42:49):
attention to it for what itneeds to be for the stained
glass to do a job to abstract itenough. So that again, just like
the log cabin, you've you cansee it as beer can but at the
same time is it's still acontrived form for its own
reasons. And that plus you know,we anthropomorphize these cans
anyway, it has a mouth as ahead. Now, when we talk about
(43:13):
beer, like, Alright, let's playwith that humor side, because
that's what I do in this stuff,too. I may be very serious in
long winded about my answers,but at the same time is I'm
still a guy who drank a 30 packof bush light in order to make a
really cool sculpture. I mean,that's all part of it. That's
that's important. We got to getthere.
Matthew Fluharty (43:37):
So Carl, when when we look at husk, and I
think the range of referenceswith which are within this
sculpture, I mean, on one hand,we have the dying Gaul. We have
the process we have we have youwalking the roads, picking up
the cans, engaging physicallywith the cans and sort of
(43:59):
transforming that experienceinto the piece that we see at
the Plains Art Museum. We haveall of that, you know, and I
think especially for folks whomight be listening to this, who
have maybe less intimacy withrural areas. You know, there's
also it's a fact it's hard toget around in that almost like a
(44:21):
historical marker. The Bush likecan in a ditch, smashed on the
road, hanging out like on acorner in a downtown block in
rural America. Really, is itit's a talisman it's a way of
letting you know that you are ina rural area. It's one of it
(44:45):
perhaps the most uncanny sort ofuniversal experiences of rural
America is the bush light canand I think for folks maybe who
maybe live in metropolitan areasthat probably He sounds
profoundly farcical, and it ismaybe on some level as well. But
(45:05):
it's it's pretty much a truism.
You know, you know, you're in acertain spot when you see that
bush like hand on the side ofthe road, when I register with
that is, is the bush like him,but also a whole host of more
emotional resonances from my ownlife. I mean, it's just been an
object that is present in thelandscape in a way that feels
(45:26):
unsettling, but also veryfamiliar. And I guess, Carl,
what I'm wondering is the degreeto which that is also sort of a
set of associations that you'reworking through, and thinking
through in this piece?
Karl Unnasch (45:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's pretty much on
the market. It's, it's a joke.
And just like any other comedy,like, for the truest form,
there's, there's tragedy andcomedy, that's what makes it
comedic, because we have, if wedon't laugh at ourselves, then
(46:06):
then we fail. as a species as itis, as a self centered species.
It's a running joke. Within thewithin the culture nailed the
defensive pride of drinking,cheap as beer, not just here,
but anywhere, you know, in thatregard, everyone has their has
(46:26):
their talismans to use yourterm. And yeah, it is a it's a,
it's a definitive indicator,given the frequency of it, I see
it as a signifier of one of themajor fundamental failings of
ourselves as a species. And whatI mean by that is, I see it as
(46:48):
how we can't even have enoughself love self respect.
When weblatantly, you know, whimsically
throw a bit of trash out thewindow that has such a prideful
connotation to it, it's, it's,it's like, if I could slap
(47:17):
myself with the rubber chicken,and die crying, that's what that
is, to me. As if I if Irepresent our species to some
alien race, you know, a personis so you know, real bush light,
that's my drink, you know, I'mgonna have that, you know, and I
don't need anything fancy. Okay,well, there's a lot of pride in
(47:39):
that statement, you know, and Isay this, because I was once
that person, but also, I stilldrink bush light with these
people. You know, it goes backto digging in the garden and
making sure that you'regrounded, you got to know that
you cannot step away and stilljudge you have to, you have to
take your licks like anyoneelse. And in bringing it back to
(48:00):
what I'm saying is, I see andhear that proselytization of a
statement, and then whimsicallyjust throw it out the window.
It's like, what happened to thatpride in that moment, you have
so much pride to identifyyourself, you have so much pride
to say what you stand for. Butthen on the same token, you
(48:21):
throw it out the window in theditch for someone else to pick
it up for you. Wow, that's,that's some that's a Greek
tragedy right there to me, at afundamental level. So how am I
supposed to walk into a bigMetropolitan art opening? How am
(48:42):
I supposed to go in there and beable to meet someone I if I
can't even think, to not throwshit in the ditch. That That to
me in maybe I'm just tooutopian. But you can't get on a
high horse. If you're trottingit through all the trash you
(49:08):
through.
Matthew Fluharty (49:12):
So, Carl, I'm really grateful for all your
time today. And I think as we aswe come to the end of our time
together, and hopefully we'renot riding off on high horses.
Hopefully they're medium sizedhorses. I just want to ask you a
final question that, you know,we're really fixing to ask a
(49:34):
number of our guests just tokeep this range of associations
going. You know, whichis what? What music what books,
films, artists, are you thinkingabout right now? I mean, where
it is, your creative space, sortof resonating with some new
associations and newconnections. what's what's been
(49:55):
inspiring you lately?
Karl Unnasch (49:56):
Um, you know, I gotta admit, I'm digging My
innerspace right now, I'm doingthe best I can to do a lot of
self reflection, selfimprovement even. I'm trying to
check myself. And to make surethat I'm doing you know, I'm
walking the walk here. And thatmeans it goes back to me talking
(50:17):
about, you know, do I want to beright? Or do I want to be
correct? And a lot of poker, alot of people think they're both
Well, I want to make sure I am.
So I want to be correct aboutbeing right and correct. So to
do that, I'm going to have toreally ask myself a lot of
personal questions that once Ikick off, you know, once I'm
once I'm exit stage left, I canhonestly walk out with my head
(50:38):
held high, not prideful, butjust say, Okay, I did okay. To
do that, I've got to make surethat my house is in order. And
to do that, and I'm, I'm tryingto see more of who I am. I'm
investigating certain aspects ofmy personality that have been a
challenge over the years and intrying to steer the battleship a
(51:00):
little bit. So that that's not aproblem anymore. That doesn't
hinder me as much, I'm trying toget rid of my distractions a lot
more. So I can even take thingsto the next level, and be better
at what it is that I that I'mpassionate and think that I can
be mindful enough to do right bythe rest of the world. So that
said, I'm looking into I'mreading a book right now about
(51:23):
giftedness, by Davidson,paczynski. I think it came out,
but 10 years ago, it's got somenuggets in there, that's
helpful. And it's helping toexplain some of the things I
just talked about some of thethings I just alluded to here as
far as like, what's what's mademy life more of a challenge, and
how I can correct my course sothat it's not such a challenge,
(51:46):
and I can actually have betterfocus on the things I want to
talk about. So that's my readingright now. As far as music goes,
um, it goes back to I'm diggingsome, some Americana in this. I
mean, I discovered you know,just by accident, No One No One
put in front of me when, whenyou when you're in your studio
(52:08):
alone a lot and you have accessto Pandora, you really try to
make the most of it. And I'mreally digging some of the new
stuff I'm finding new for me butprobably not new for a lot of
people in the audience. WaylonPayne sturgill Simpson people
whose stories kind of fallalongside the the, the the
gravel road, where I'm travelingand where I've traveled, and
(52:31):
what helps make my story so far.
And that's and that's good. AndI'm also digging, well, I'm
digging some weird and coolfusion stuff that that Have you
ever heard of the group that whoAh, you the Who? from Mongolia,
I need to hear this traditionalsymphonic Mongolian metal. It's
(53:00):
like some of the most funfarmboy punk I could ever wrap
my head around. And it goes backto my earlier days of pop metal
back in the day when I wasriding the school bus. And I
can't help but be attracted toit. But the thing is, is that
it's these are just four four orfive six guys who are symphonic
(53:21):
Li trained in traditional folk,Mongolian string instruments and
whatnot. And they are blastingthey kept them in this is 10
years ago, they started youknow, really getting mainstream,
but I can't help but sit thereand just listen to their stuff.
And it just it's visceral. Tome. It's like this, this. It's
primal. And it speaks to, youknow, you can hear the you can
(53:46):
hear the civic pride, you canhear the nature you can hear,
well, literally sometimes youcan hear the wild animals that
they incorporate into the samemusic and, and the open ended
stories from getting this conall the way to their love for
the female spirit. So I'mthinking that you said is it Who
(54:08):
are those you spelled h you thewho it's I don't I wish I knew
more. I wish I had the time todig, dig into more about them.
But I'm still I'm still tryingto absorb what they're doing for
me. always seeking alwayscurious, but also finding things
that I have some connection to,you know, trying to make that
trying to bridge that gap withan arc that isn't too long, but
(54:30):
just enough so you can still geta solid weld.
Matthew Fluharty (54:34):
This is a really great opportunity, as
we're sort of closing out ourtime together to welcome folks
to also check out the show noteson the high visibility.org site
for our conversation together sothat they can immediately
introduce themselves with thework of the who and a number of
(54:55):
these other associations thatyou've so graciously welcomed
forth to us. Oh, over ourconversation together. Carl,
thanks again for your time andfor this conversation today. And
thank you so much for your workwithin the high visibility show.
It's It's an honor to have yourperspective and all of the lived
experience that comes forward inhusk in the space of the Plains
(55:17):
Art Museum for the highvisibility exhibition.
Karl Unnasch (55:20):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's, it's been a
heck of a journey. And it'sstill going on here. If I if I'm
not being too forward here, I dowant to give props to a couple
people that helped make ushaskap into the fabrication was
done by a good friend, Samspitzkoppe sartell St.
cloudways. In Minnesota, he's amasterful artisan of the weld
art. I got nothing but you know,full on. bear hug, respect for
(55:44):
him. And then also, obviously,you know, big thanks to Nicole
and all her patients for helpingme out, getting all the all the
unseen stuff done. I wouldn't beable to do that without her. And
also a shout out to Mike samito.
Out Mankato way, who way backin, oh, gosh, they 2015 showed
(56:09):
up at my doorstep. And I tookhim in to show him a few tricks.
And then we've been solidfriends ever since. So he's been
a big help on a lot of the stuffI've done with these projects.
So it's not something that Ijust do by myself, even though
the idea is is comes from my ownexperiences. We have to remember
that that there are people thathelp us along the way and I
(56:31):
think it's important that weshout them out. totally right.
Matthew Fluharty (56:37):
You've been listening to high visibility
podcast produced by art of therural and Plains Art Museum.
Please join the conversation atplains art.org
Hello, you're listening to high visibility.
This podcast welcomes intoconversation artists, culture
bearers and leaders from acrossrural America in Indian country,
and is produced by art of therural and Plains Art Museum. Our
podcast is produced inconjunction with a high
(00:28):
visibility exhibition, acollaboratively curated effort
currently on view at Plains ArtMuseum through May 30 2021. My
name is Matthew Fluharty, andI'm the organizing curator. In
the month ahead, I'll be withyou, along with other hosts from
the Plains Art Museum andbeyond. As this podcast shares
(00:48):
the richly divergent stories,lived experiences and visions of
folks across the continent. Youcan learn more about visiting
high visibility exhibition anddive deeper into the artists and
works included here by visitingplains art.org. We welcome folks
to also check out the shownotes, where we'll offer artists
(01:10):
websites, alongside images oftheir work and further resources
and connections. We're gratefulfor the support of the Andy
Warhol foundation for the visualarts, and the National Endowment
for the Arts in making thisexhibition and podcast possible.
Today we're talking with CarlLuna. from his home and studio
(01:31):
in pilot mountain, Minnesota, atown located within Dakota
homelands, called creates publicstructures that often
incorporate stained glass, wood,metal and other materials.
Through placing rural narrativeswithin the ecological, social
and historical traditions ineach site. Call create
structures with playful,nostalgic, and often provocative
(01:54):
illusions. While manycontemporary artists have
incorporated vernacular elementsof their lived rural experience
into their creative vision, doproduce work that so subtly
offends cultural expectations ofsubject matter and form carlu
nosh His work has been exhibitedwidely in North America and
beyond, and has been featured inoutlets as diverse as the New
(02:15):
York Times are in Londonmagazine. NBC is today's show,
and farm show magazine. His workadorns educational facilities,
banks, theaters, libraries,museum grounds, and public
gathering spaces across NorthAmerica. This conversation was
recorded in mid February 2021.
In a moment when theinsurrection at the United
(02:37):
States Capitol felt more like anunfolding condition than a
memory or a piece of recenthistory. throughout those
events, I thought a great dealabout husk. Karl's contribution
to the high visibilityexhibition. husk is a large
scale stained glass and metalsculpture of a crushed bush
light can an object found sooften littered in ditches,
(03:00):
roadsides, in lots across ruralareas. Carl sees its presence is
what he calls a multi layeredstereotype. One that in a
painful and contradictory waycommunicates rugged
individualism, ecologicaldisregard, in a lot of emotional
and spiritual damage. Along theway in this conversation, we
(03:24):
also touch on his upbringing ona multi generational self
sustaining farm and on what hisdaily life looks like now in his
rural community. Carl referencesa few pieces that we'll share on
the show notes so that folks candive deeper. The first is
operant a mixed mediainstallation at the Rose Kennedy
Greenway in Boston thatacknowledges the construction
(03:46):
workers and laborers who createdthe city's Big Dig underground
interstate connector. Another isruminant a stained glass
installation within a corncombine in reedsburg, Wisconsin,
and also slum Gallian areclaimed log cabin
installation, the future stainedglass art glass and resin bonded
textiles. This located at thephilbrook Museum of Art in
(04:10):
Tulsa, Oklahoma. So withoutfurther ado, please settle in
and enjoy our conversation withCarl who nosh. So, Carl, welcome
to high visibility.
Karl Unnasch (04:25):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. I'm looking forwardto this. Thank you.
Matthew Fluharty (04:28):
It is really great to have you as the first
guest. And it's an honor to havehusk on view at the Plains Art
Museum for the high visibilityshow. I think as I've just been
thinking just as one person inthe midst of the last couple of
weeks of life in this nationhusk has come up a lot and I
know we'll get to husk later onin our conversation but I'm
(04:51):
grateful and I'm just reallyexcited for our conversation
today. Because I think you knowyour work touches on indirect
and and in indirect ways, anumber of the elements of like
what a academic might callmorality, but it does so went
away with force in humor, andhumanity that really disarms a
lot of those concepts. You know,and I, I was even thinking about
(05:15):
that, just to give our listenerssome context. In the days
leading up to this conversation,pretty much every cliched thing
that happens to a first podcastepisode happened. And it kind of
culminated hours before we weregoing to talk with my
realization that the mic and themonitor system we were using,
(05:38):
wasn't working. And this momentcame upon me as I was racing, to
a big box store that's on theoutskirts of my town to pick up
this microphone that I thinkperhaps to, to some audiences,
you know, I live in Winona,Minnesota, you live in pilot
(06:01):
mound, some folks might assumethat our experiences of morality
are the same. However, even acouple of miles down the road,
how we're living and how we'reexperiencing community are sort
of vastly divergent, you know,and it took me back to a moment
when I was in conversation withMary welcome, who is another
(06:22):
really powerful artists doingwork across rural and rural
urban space. And she talkedabout the gradients of rural
experience. One of the ways ofthinking about at least being
centered around how far you arefrom a Walmart, which was, I
didn't go to Walmart to pick upthe mic, but it was close, like
this, the same, the same speciesof place to pick up this mic at
(06:46):
the last second, it made methink about all of the ways in
which, you know, because yourwork is taking place, in
galleries and in public spacesall around the country. It made
me think about the ways in whichyou're probably often called
upon to speak to the ruralexperience, and to speak to
those gradients of rural lifethat are wildly diverse,
(07:10):
although they're often onlyportrayed as being one
dimensional.
Karl Unnasch (07:14):
I have one experience that stands apart
with being able to bridge thegap between urban and rural that
that is the reason it's it'scomes it comes to the fore
hairs, it's very precious asit's called out of the blue to
provide a piece for the RoseKennedy Greenway in Boston.
2019, Lucas Cohen, the leadcurator contacted me and reached
(07:41):
out and said, Hey, I'd reallylike to see a piece of yours out
here. And for the public toexperience I'm like, Whoa, I
mean, you get one, that's thefirst big one you get when you
look at it, and you go, alright,who's who's pulling my leg here?
This is this is obviously morejunk mail and you dig into it,
and then you do the, you know,the back checking online, you're
(08:03):
like, Oh, this is random byNicola is like it? Is this
legit. It's like that disbeliefof Holy crap. Alright, this is
important, I guess. So contactedback had a conversation or two,
and found out it was totallylegit. And it's like, Okay, once
that's okay. And I was like,okay, somebody actually wants to
listen to somebody from out inthe sticks, apparently. And
(08:26):
that's, that's a good thing. Allright, I'm on I'm up. Let's do
this. So I'm happy to providethat. So meeting him going out
to Boston meeting, meeting withLukas just sitting down and
holding pull ever finding outwhere your connections are with
this person. As far as fromcultural familiarity. Being able
(08:47):
to have a conversation, mosttimes that I've had
conversations with the curatorsand artists that come from a
metropolitan area, there'sreally not a lot for me to
provide because it feels andthis is, you know, obviously I'm
a little jaded here, butconsistently, I felt like
there's really not much for meto offer, because I don't
(09:09):
consistently live in theirbackyard, and not a metropolitan
artist. I'm never going to be ametropolitan artist. I don't
want to be a metropolitanartist. However, when I found
out that Lucas was from Detroit,and we had some Midwestern
sensibilities that lined up, wefound out that, you know, aside
from stereotypical unexpectedcontrasts, we actually had
(09:34):
plenty in common that we couldfind common ground on and that
just reaffirm this like I'mdoing the right thing, in a way
it was like, it's I use kind ofa welding analogy is, is that
familiarity helped provide lessarc and more contact, to be able
to get a more firm adhesion ofhow we could communicate. So we
(10:00):
We carried on, shuffled left andfound out, you know, I developed
an idea that was relative to thesite and relative to the place
and relative to the region thatI actually had some familiarity
with. And out of that was born,the the piece I did for them
with the dump truck in the inthe stained glass, and then in
(10:21):
the junk class in it.
Matthew Fluharty (10:23):
Carl, who were the artists? See, when you are
you were when you were in theearly stages of your own
development, who you found, eventhough they might have been
coming from a different context,and, you know, maybe weren't,
weren't raised in the upperMidwest, like where you found
that those same values? Youknow, that the question you
spoke about earlier of, sort oflooking at a scene and feeling
(10:44):
the value and wanting to be apositive contributor, towards a
sense of community that's deeperthan just an individual? I mean,
were there was there an artistor a work that kind of bridged
that gap between being, being ayoung person in a community to,
to being someone who wanted tocreate work to contribute to
that artistic conversation? Wasthere a moment like a moment
(11:06):
like that for you?
Karl Unnasch (11:09):
Not Not, not as an artist, not not a not a creative
problem solver. It was always,it was always somebody who ended
up being fulfilling like a sagerole in the community. And it
depended on the community aswell, like paying attention to
some of the old farts, the oldcottages that would reach out, I
(11:29):
mean, these are guys, you know,get a full, full Chyna to
tobacco juice, and then spit onthe ground. And then look over
at a kid that, you know, tosstheir cigarette down, he goes,
you pick that up feel just son,and the kid give a look, he
goes, That's not where you gotit from. So feel just and put it
in your pocket. And, and the kidwould listen to that person and
more often than not, and do it.
And it's not like a matter of Ididn't never, I never saw that
(11:53):
as somebody trying to controlsomebody else. I saw it as
someone caring enough aboutwhere their footprints lied. And
trying to let someone else know,hey, you're part of this too. I
think people that I gained,gained some knowledge from were
the ones that took the time tothink through that a job isn't
(12:16):
done. Until you clean up. Thenyou get to go have a sip of
whiskey. You don't get to dothat until you sweep the floor
until you clean up till you putyour shit away.
So artists, I've gainedexcellent knowledge and skills
(12:36):
about how to navigate the artworld by dealing with artists.
But to be a better artist, I hadto step away from artists and
become a better me I had to endthis is my motto now is be your
damn self. And me sticking withthat if I can stick with that. I
think I can weather any storm.
(12:58):
So Carl,
Matthew Fluharty (12:59):
I think it was in Winona, Minnesota, where you
first began to work with stainedglass as a medium of expression
for your sculptures. I mean,what was that a springboard from
your early work towards the morecontemporary pieces now that
audiences might recognize.
Karl Unnasch (13:18):
I answered of all things a newspaper ad when I was
going through undergrad, andwhen I was at university, and I
knew I didn't want to work inany sort of factory slash, quote
unquote, regular job. But yet Ianswered an ad for a regular
job. But I happened to be in aninteresting industry. And it was
(13:39):
stained glass industry. You knowwhat? No, no, Minnesota is calls
itself the stained glass capitalof the United States, back in
the day used to have the moststained glass companies per
capita of any sin. And a lot ofwillen Hauser still based out of
there, or at least its mothercompanies based out of there
because I know they've gottenpretty big and eaten up all the
smaller companies. I learned ina day, how to cut glass, how to
(14:03):
pull apart an old window to fixit, and how to put one together
I learned that in a day. And tothis day, you know, 30 years
later, I still haven't perfectedit. And that's okay. Because
it's a craft based medium thattakes it has it has the
(14:26):
capability of being anythingfrom a hobby that fulfills
someone for their entire life,or an unrelenting quest for
someone to perfect themselveslike the Judas factor. who still
I would bet as much as she isthe creme de la creme of the
stained glass world as far asI'm concerned. When it comes to
(14:49):
fine art craft, but I will stillbet that she says oh I still
have a lot to learn. stainedglass. fits that. That that is
the key Did that lock in mybrain where I sit there and go?
Okay, what am I going to try todo this, this this this week?
What am I going to try toincorporate into a window that's
going to challenge me? And atthe same time, the people that
(15:11):
see it from the hobbyist mindsetthat goes, Well, that's really
isn't that nice? Isn't that niceto the people that on the high
end that go, Hmm, I see thatyou're bringing some of these
skills from that era. And at thesame time, this glass comes from
cocoa, and then other glass iscoming from the spectrum company
out west. Oh, okay, I see whyyou blended those glasses
(15:32):
together. So you put why you putthat one, and then all of a
sudden, it gets hyper analyzed.
on the high end, I get that, forme. I'm bringing something that
has all those aspects. And thethe and that, that that goddamn
nostalgia, of living really, ina country church, you have that
little taste of high end craft,in this house of worship, where
(15:55):
people come together in acommunity to have some sort of
genuine exchange, as a group, asa tribe, as a as a as a, as a
game plan, whatever, you know,whatever term you want to use,
that's there there. The emphasisof their learning and their
expansion and their growth as acommunity. So why not use that
(16:18):
in a sculpture? why not bringthat into the fine arts world
and really knock it out andstart questioning everything you
do with the questions that comefrom using it, it generates more
questions than answers. And Ithink that's key as well. I cut
one piece of glass, it'll beroom temperature, I'll have a
(16:39):
nice oiled wheel, I can scoreit, I can snap it, and it'll
just sing. That stuff just singswhen it pops open. All these
fulfilling aspects when you doit, right. It's like riding a
bike, and you finally as a kid,get the training wheels off and
you're like you feel that zoneof balance, you're not tipping
left, you're not tipping, right,you're, you're going straight
down on your bike. And when youcan do that, with cutting state
(17:01):
just cutting stained glassalone, I don't have to be a
master artist at anything, justlearning how to cut glass alone
is fulfilling in in and ofitself. But getting to that
point where you feel it, and itbecomes inherent. I know a lot
of other artists that do a lotof repetitive actions of their
work. Once you get into thatzone, and then the flow starts,
(17:23):
oh, boy, that should just singsand you can hear the music
coming off it to bring that intoyour work is intimidating in and
of itself. And a lot of peoplewill never realize that all the
things we do that they neverrealize what it takes to get to
that point.
Matthew Fluharty (17:41):
Carl hearing you you talk about the process.
I mean, the one one goes throughwith stained glass, it takes me
back, I am going to I'm going tosay this line and probably run
over over the car a couple timesjust and make them make a
mockery of how it actuallysounds. But this, this line that
William Butler Yeats has an Apoem, where he says essentially,
(18:01):
you know, we, we might work amonth on a line, just for it to
appear as if it was a moment'sthought, you know, it has to,
has to feel unfiltered, almostlike, like it comes from a
different place beyond toil. Ittakes me back to those notions
of joy and fulfillment, youknow, the ease with which we,
when we see work that is reallywell achieved. We know the work
(18:23):
is there, but it also takes ussomewhere beyond it as an
audience. And thinking aboutthis actually takes me back to
the first experience I had withyour work, which was the
ruminant the Grand masticator,which was in reedsburg,
Wisconsin, I believe it was acollaboration with art slink
reedsburg I believe the wormfarm Institute was also involved
(18:46):
with an element of that. And inthinking about that piece, and
then also thinking about thework which which came after it
in your own creative chronology.
It does, it again centers aroundthis zone of nostalgia in a way
that's different than the way Ithink that nostalgia has been
(19:07):
really weaponized in rural areasin the last six years or so. And
I think we you know, we see in astyle that can actually be
productive and creative and itcan be an element which can
bring forward human andcommunity relations that are not
necessarily restrictive andjudgmental. I mean, it can be an
appeal an appeal to the past butalso an appeal forward into the
(19:31):
future. I've just given you mylike poetic back of the jacket
quote for the book on ruminantbut I mean like Could you just
share a little bit about likeabout that piece and how it how
it came about and especially howit sits now in reedsburg as well
like how it just functions ineveryday life.
Karl Unnasch (19:50):
That was a big stepping stepping up point of
future large work. undertakingthat was a good was a was a
really great start. It If Icould use one word to describe
it, it's a tribute it's in thelonger version of that answer is
it's a tribute to all of the thepeople, not necessarily farmers,
(20:13):
but it's it's obviously it'sagriculturally centric because
it's a combine means combineharvester. But it's specifically
from an era that I recognize ashaving some of the last great
vestiges of the, of the, the,the gentlemen farmers and the
and the country wives, you know,to go with back with that
(20:34):
nostalgia now. Obviously,that's, that's the mythologized
way of seeing a point in historythat I existed in at a coming of
age, and experiencing itfirsthand, literally, by, you
know, doing all the work thatentailed being a self being self
(20:56):
sufficient farm. In that time,in the in the mid 80s, the early
70s, a mid 80s tribute needs tobe given to the people that bust
their ass. So if it's a saluteto blue collar work, so be it,
if it's a salute to, you know,better times, so be it, you
know, I accept that I, that I'vesigned up for that, because
(21:17):
guess what, there were bettertimes, there were because, and I
mean, that, that the people thatexisted in plied their trade,
using this combine, going tothese country churches, and, and
confessing their sins and, andpraying their peace, and hoping
for better times in in gracethat they needed to just get by
(21:41):
because they were writing theirown playbooks to, to try to
survive without a lot of outwardsupport. And we all know that,
that that is, that is the LauraIngalls Wilder version of
driving a tractor. But there's alot about it that created, you
(22:06):
know, a good lifestyle for a lotof people, it was a better time
than the people that had beforeleading up to that, you know, I
wasn't, it wasn't anything towalk around and family reunions
and see, see people missingfingers and hat and having lost
an eye or living with a limp.
You know, scars are everywhere.
And there's a reason becausethey earned them. You know,
(22:31):
that's why I think in and I canspeak to this too, you know, if
we're gonna go sociopoliticalfor a second, I can see why
people have a hair acrosserasked about, you know, being
open arms about change in therural areas, and being afraid of
what's coming next. Becausethere's a lot of them that
worked so hard to get where theyare, and they're scared. And I
(22:55):
tell this to people on both endsof the spectrum, politically,
you're dealing with reallyscared people, and they don't
have a playbook anymore, to tellthem how to survive this, what's
coming, because they don't knowwhat's coming. But they think
it's bad. And they're convincedit's bad, because they have no
other recourse but to sit thereand guess. And they're left to
(23:17):
guess. Now, I'm not going tovilify it as many people as I
can about, you know, all thepolitical crap that's been going
on. Because guess what I'm in,I'm in the thick of, you know,
the rural area. So I have todeal with these people on daily
basis, I don't have theconvenience of living in a place
where everyone around me, I canlook around, I don't live in a
(23:41):
heavily urbanized place where Ican look around and go, Okay, I
feel safe here. Because I knowwe have a network of systems in
place that's going to keep mesafe. When I'm out in the
country, it goes back to knowingyour neighbors, if you know your
neighbors, you know how to dealwith them. That doesn't just
mean that you know how to helpthem. You also know how far you
can tread.
Matthew Fluharty (24:02):
I think what I think is powerful, about, about
the way that you're usingnostalgia in your work, just, I
mean, just really just based onwhat what you just shared is
that you can take one step intoa an envision nostalgic, rural
(24:22):
scene, and there are so many ofthem. I mean, they're
culturally, just at the edge ofthe table. But I think in your
work, and I think also in theways that you talk about your
work, what's revealed veryquickly, is how layered both are
orientation to that past andthat nostalgia, whether we're
(24:44):
from a rural place or an urbanplace or suburban place, but
also how layered the actualreact reality was in terms of
that experience in the past. Andif I could shift gears just
slightly here. I mean, that'ssort of Sort of indeterminant
kind of liminal space, also, ina strange way is kind of
(25:06):
analogous, I think, to the spacethat your work occupies really
broadly, in that, as you weresharing earlier, your work, I
love this example, you know,your work has appeared both in
the farm show magazine, and theNew York Times, and innumerable
art publications that are thatare embedded within sort of the
(25:27):
structure of the arts andcultural, you know, ecosystem in
this country and beyond. So thiswork itself kind of is situated
between on one hand, reallyconceptual conversation about
what the pieces and maybe whatwhat it echoes in sort of the
artistic or cultural tradition.
Yet it also is just by virtue ofwho you are as a person, really
(25:48):
authentically situated withinthe rural experience that you
have growing up where you grewup and living, where you live.
And slum golian is a piece thatfor me, it really just it's kind
of a balance between those twothings in a very powerful way.
And what I love about it, and ifyou'll allow me this, is I just
(26:11):
want to read a short quote thatyou wrote, sort of in the
materials related to the peace,which explains some elements of
what slim golian is up to. Andthen there's the whole Converse,
there's the whole story abouthow the peace came into being
itself, which is like reallyfascinating to me. But But
(26:33):
first, here's what you wroteabout slumgullion. You said the
American log cabin offers astack of associations. It's
served as a home in which tospend a lifetime as a temporary
dwelling for laborers. And as agateway from urban chaos. This
stood as a symbol of ruralgumption, nationalistic pride,
(26:55):
abject poverty, political cloutand colonial incursion. And here
we're talking about a stainedglass and sort of multi material
sculpture that is down in Tulsaat the philbrook. And I love
this because we're talking abouta log cabin, but your language
itself exposes how, how deep,how complicated, and how
(27:19):
divergent so many of thoseresonances are even within the
concept of a log cabin. Um, sothat's a very large preamble for
talking about slim Gallian. I'mcurious if you could kind of
leave us with a thread into thispiece. And maybe first leading
us into how did this piece comeinto existence in the first
place, what what's the backstorybehind it
Karl Unnasch (27:42):
was on a fishing trip with my buddy Koop,
northern Wisconsin. And I was inthe middle of rebuilding an
actual log cabin that was on my,at the time my parents farm I
grew up on we use that buildingfor as a chicken coop but also
as a building to where theheifers could have their calves,
(28:06):
especially in the wintertime. Sowe can throw bedding in there to
stay warm enough so that theywould have a decent place to, to
have their calf. So it was itwas a multi use building. But we
all knew that ever used to besomeone's home. Even as a kid I
recognize the the value ofknowing that without knowing.
(28:32):
Because when you're told thesedisparate things growing up
without any other context otherthan what you're doing everyday,
when you're picking shit out ofthis old log cabin. You're still
thinking at least I was in thetime doing it that repetitive
act. I looked around I was like,people lived in here. They slept
in here. They who knows theymight have had their kids in
(28:52):
here. And I just like, this wassomeone's home. And it's solid,
solid structure, simpleconstruction that held that held
up through the test of time. Nocode. No, no rules other than
this is how gravity works. Thisis how a sharp blade works. This
(29:13):
is how trees grow figured out.
So what's that thattransgression between I don't
know. I wouldn't call ittransgression. This is
transformation of evolutionbetween a Earth and a boat or a
cave and architecture. And I wason a fishing trip in northern
Wisconsin. Stopped at this placealong the road jeans, antiques,
(29:37):
and furniture Emporium. And itwas basically roadside junk shop
on on the highway leading up toEagle River and went inside.
There's this old cowboy walkingaround who was the owner
obviously. And he had thatinteresting swagger to him of
very comfortable in his ownskin. As I was looking around, I
(29:58):
was looking around for any kindof old hinges, iron hinges, or
hasps, or, or anything thatwould shout out, hey, this needs
to be incorporated, because itwould look really good and do a
good job functionally, as acomponent of the cabinet and
rebuilding. So I was looking forhardware. And the old guy
(30:18):
saunters up to me, he says,Well, what can I help you with?
And I'm like, I'm looking forthis and I'm doing this cabin
I'm doing as he goes, you likelog cabins?
I got one for sale. And I'mlike, No, shit.
Okay, let's go. Look. I droppedthe downpayment on this thing to
(30:41):
hold it for me, because I knewthat it wouldn't go anywhere. I
recognized the footprint. I sawthe logs firsthand, they were
all jumbled all over. But Icould see that they were in
great shape. And he showed me apicture of his son as a
construction guy, and he and hisson had salvaged it. So I'd
respect for that, too. And hisson had taken a picture of it,
(31:05):
as it was re stacked after itwas pulled apart. So I never
even got to see a picture of itin its, quote, unquote, original
form. And even from that pictureof two sides of it, I could see
that it was it had value. Longstory short is I knew Scott
stolen and mentioned it to himin passing few years prior is
(31:26):
like, if you ever run acrosssomeone who wants to turn this
into an art piece, you let meknow. And I will do the
damnedest that I can to make itbombastic. Well, at the time, I
didn't realize that he was goingto head down a road and actually
be one of those people that hewas supposed to talk to. He
ended up working his way and heended up being the director,
(31:48):
president of the philbrook inTulsa. Any he hollered out he
goes, Carl is like Hey, what'sup? He goes, you still got that
log cabin. I was like, Yes, Ido. He goes, let's talk as like,
Okay. And through some meetingsand understanding how we wanted
to go about it, we figured outhow to turn it into something
(32:10):
useful for Philbrick, and giveit a permanent home.
Matthew Fluharty (32:14):
So slumgullion physically is a really great
metaphor for how from adistance, we have an orientation
to something but then we getcloser and we realize how
layered and how complex andoftentimes how beautiful
something is. I mean, could youjust kind of narrate for us, for
folks who haven't been to Tulsato the philbrook? What the
(32:34):
pieces that came out of thisamazing story. I mean, from a
distance, it looks like a cabin,and you're like, Oh, this cabin
is lit up with stained glass. Imean, that is that's the one
sense sensory perception that anaudience member would have
standing maybe 2530 feet awaywhat when they walk into the
experience,
Karl Unnasch (32:53):
well, on the right day, if it's daytime, and it's
bright enough while you walkinside, and the first thing that
you're going to have happen isyou're going to be inundated
with color from every everydirection except for maybe the
floor and even I tried to worksome of that into it has to be
this overwhelming symphony ofcolor from every angle from the
(33:15):
windows from the walls from theceiling. And that has to come
through with stained glass inthe in the windows themselves.
From the ceilings. Clear it's aclear decking made of
polycarbonate with resin castcloth as singles. So you're
basically sitting under orstanding under a quilt that is a
(33:36):
ceiling if it's working right.
And then the lanterns as wellthat are made from reclaimed
colored glass are hanging, youknow, all over the ceiling. And
with their little flickeringorange lights to sparkling and
flickering, plus all of theresin bound cloth that's tucked
in the walls. During the day thelights filtering through but at
(33:58):
night, the LED lights that areembedded in them turn on to so
it glows from within andwithout. And the chimney to the
even though even though the fakefireplace has a reclaimed and
Glass Menagerie to it.
There's a quote that you gave tocraft magazine. You're on the
(34:19):
cover of craft magazine into thelarge feature on this piece. And
you said I made the ceiling androof ostentatious to get people
to look up literally andmetaphorically. It's something
people don't do a lot nowadays.
And I read this quote inpreparation for writing about
your work for the highvisibility newspaper. And what
struck me is that husksculpture, which is included in
(34:43):
the high visibility exhibitionat the Plains Art Museum, is
asking folks to think almostliterally and metaphorically
about the act of looking downCan you lead us into Some of the
life experiences andinspirations that led to the
creation of hoskin for folks whocan't come to the Plains Art
(35:06):
Gallery yet. We welcome you togo online to in high
visibility.org to check out thepiece itself, but this piece is
in keeping with some of yourprevious pieces in that it it is
stained glass and steel. And itis as one draws closer to a much
like slim Gallian. One realizesthat it is literally and
(35:29):
metaphorically to use you justuse your words, a representation
of a crushed bush light can. Howdid how did you approach this
piece? Where did this piece comefrom for you as an artist?
It goes back to constantlyseeing trash riding the
backroads. You see trash in theditches. So let's let that be an
(35:55):
inspiration. So I look at that.
And now I'm, you know, pandemicstarting last March last. I get
back from California in March, Istarted going for walks. Even
though I'm used to living thecountry, I also self quarantine
for two weeks after being awayfrom my week, my family for a
week. So I'm going on to threeweeks not being around my
(36:18):
family, and they're right there.
So I'm like, okay, you know thatthis is gonna be hard. But
you've lived through blizzards,you know what it's like to live
out in the country, you betterstart getting busy getting busy.
So I got busy and cleaned andbuilt and worked on my house and
made more work. But also I hadto move my ass and get away from
(36:41):
the place that I was tied downto have the studio in the house.
So I'm out the country and gofor a walk, go for walk in and
wave at neighbors as I go by aholler out. So at least get some
of that going on. As I'mwalking. I may as well make
myself useful, I get busygetting busy. So I bring bags
with and I pick up trash as Igo. And once my bags full, I
(37:05):
turn around and or once my bagsare half full, I turn around I
head back home. So I knew how togauge how far I was gonna walk
didn't matter for the time orthe distance. It's what my bags
would let me allow me to how farto go. I got back and I noticed
that the the high frequency ofthings that I saw were bush
(37:28):
light cans like it, it blewaway. All the other things that
I was picking up. It was mostlypushed like cans. I was like,
Okay, this means something.
Let's think about it. Couplewhiskies later, I think, you
know what, that's the preferredbeverage of the people that I'm
familiar with. In my region. I'mlike, Huh. And then I got to
(37:52):
thinking about why that's thething we do as artists, we have
to ask why otherwise, we justaccept without knowing we
provide our own context, we fillin the gaps. Well, I'd rather
fill my gaps and with somethingthat's a little more familiar.
So I start thinking about whywell, it's the cheapest for the
buzz. It's it's not a terribleflavor for beer, but at the same
(38:14):
time, it's you know, near water.
So you can drink quite a few isstill say you're drinking beer,
and not, you know, drive in theditch, you know, let's be
honest, these people thrownthese out, or our booze cruzan.
Just like we all grew up doing.
Not saying it's right or wrong,I'm saying this is what it is.
So it's an observationalstandpoint. But also, I'm
(38:34):
immersed in it because I've donemy share of booze cruise. And
however, I can honestly say I'venever thrown a cat out a window.
And that's the thing, you know,I live by the rule of the
litter, you throw in the back ofthe truck. And then they pile up
in the back of the truck. Soanyway, I started taking
pictures of them in situ beforeI picked them up. So these
(38:55):
untouched, found objects withthe context of only where
they're discovered. And theystart becoming my own little
truffles, my own little morelmushrooms, my own little gnomes
out in the woods. And everyoneis different. And everyone is
it's in its own differentcontext. So I've been posting
one on Instagram per day since Istarted doing that. As of today,
(39:19):
I think I'm up to 308. And I'mthinking it'll probably be just
a year's worth, and we'll callit good to go with the length of
the time that I started doingthis for the piece. I started
looking at the shapes, I'm veryfamiliar with a crushed can
shape it's also a, you know,something straight out of the
vernacular context of this iswhat is a finished fetishized
(39:41):
object from my culture, if Icould say that, but yet it's a
chunk of litter that pisses meoff, but yet, it's also a
corporate item for someone tomake more money off us, you
know, poor folk out in thecountry and yet it's also
beautiful. And yet, it's amalleable object, and yet it
could provide inspiration. Andyet, I can still turn that into
(40:04):
this dynamic concept of what itis that I'm and getting to
death. So I bought a 30 pack ofbush light, got a friend to come
over and we drank a few and gotto be in a chemically induced
state. And then I say, right, Iwant to make some sculpture now,
I'm gonna make some mcats. And Istarted making the cat in the
(40:28):
studio, like you do. And eachcan became the potential object
but with be trying to crush itinto an interesting, yet
unfamiliar, yet familiar shapeat the same time to find that
good blend of sculpted, yethappenstance.
(40:51):
And I got to thinking aboutculture, and thinking about the
dying Gaul, which is one of mymost favorite human figure base
sculptures that I've ever comeacross and seeing the different
versions of them. And thinkingabout a rebellious dying culture
that just will not give up,which is what a lot of, we see
(41:16):
coming from the culture that I'min this and I'll be and I'm
going to say it out loud. Thiswhite massage dentist,
patriarchical culture is dying,thank God. So my commentary on
(41:39):
that is, the people that I seearound me that are digging in
with their tooth and nail to notlet go of this nostalgia are the
new dyeing galls. And this is aperfect representation. So I
considered the shape and form ofthis Viking is biking biker type
vandal guy, but figure dyeing,yet still trying to push away
(42:04):
from gravity and one lasteffort. How can I transfer that
to the shape of a crush beer canand that took 30 to arrive at
that I can definitively say ittook a 30 pack of bush like
literally to get to that pointand picked out the right shape
after vetting it through some.
Which one do you think which oneyou think and getting a survey
(42:26):
from people of all differentbackgrounds, which one looks
like a finger with its knee upas kind of bent over as well,
that one and then I wanted toknow why they thought that. And
that's how I came about turningit into a larger than life
version of that bush like andlike and, and and pixelating it
like is done by fracturing thesurface and just paying
(42:49):
attention to it for what itneeds to be for the stained
glass to do a job to abstract itenough. So that again, just like
the log cabin, you've you cansee it as beer can but at the
same time is it's still acontrived form for its own
reasons. And that plus you know,we anthropomorphize these cans
anyway, it has a mouth as ahead. Now, when we talk about
(43:13):
beer, like, Alright, let's playwith that humor side, because
that's what I do in this stuff,too. I may be very serious in
long winded about my answers,but at the same time is I'm
still a guy who drank a 30 packof bush light in order to make a
really cool sculpture. I mean,that's all part of it. That's
that's important. We got to getthere.
Matthew Fluharty (43:37):
So Carl, when when we look at husk, and I
think the range of referenceswith which are within this
sculpture, I mean, on one hand,we have the dying Gaul. We have
the process we have we have youwalking the roads, picking up
the cans, engaging physicallywith the cans and sort of
(43:59):
transforming that experienceinto the piece that we see at
the Plains Art Museum. We haveall of that, you know, and I
think especially for folks whomight be listening to this, who
have maybe less intimacy withrural areas. You know, there's
also it's a fact it's hard toget around in that almost like a
(44:21):
historical marker. The Bush likecan in a ditch, smashed on the
road, hanging out like on acorner in a downtown block in
rural America. Really, is itit's a talisman it's a way of
letting you know that you are ina rural area. It's one of it
(44:45):
perhaps the most uncanny sort ofuniversal experiences of rural
America is the bush light canand I think for folks maybe who
maybe live in metropolitan areasthat probably He sounds
profoundly farcical, and it ismaybe on some level as well. But
(45:05):
it's it's pretty much a truism.
You know, you know, you're in acertain spot when you see that
bush like hand on the side ofthe road, when I register with
that is, is the bush like him,but also a whole host of more
emotional resonances from my ownlife. I mean, it's just been an
object that is present in thelandscape in a way that feels
(45:26):
unsettling, but also veryfamiliar. And I guess, Carl,
what I'm wondering is the degreeto which that is also sort of a
set of associations that you'reworking through, and thinking
through in this piece?
Karl Unnasch (45:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's pretty much on
the market. It's, it's a joke.
And just like any other comedy,like, for the truest form,
there's, there's tragedy andcomedy, that's what makes it
comedic, because we have, if wedon't laugh at ourselves, then
(46:06):
then we fail. as a species as itis, as a self centered species.
It's a running joke. Within thewithin the culture nailed the
defensive pride of drinking,cheap as beer, not just here,
but anywhere, you know, in thatregard, everyone has their has
(46:26):
their talismans to use yourterm. And yeah, it is a it's a,
it's a definitive indicator,given the frequency of it, I see
it as a signifier of one of themajor fundamental failings of
ourselves as a species. And whatI mean by that is, I see it as
(46:48):
how we can't even have enoughself love self respect.
When weblatantly, you know, whimsically
throw a bit of trash out thewindow that has such a prideful
connotation to it, it's, it's,it's like, if I could slap
(47:17):
myself with the rubber chicken,and die crying, that's what that
is, to me. As if I if Irepresent our species to some
alien race, you know, a personis so you know, real bush light,
that's my drink, you know, I'mgonna have that, you know, and I
don't need anything fancy. Okay,well, there's a lot of pride in
(47:39):
that statement, you know, and Isay this, because I was once
that person, but also, I stilldrink bush light with these
people. You know, it goes backto digging in the garden and
making sure that you'regrounded, you got to know that
you cannot step away and stilljudge you have to, you have to
take your licks like anyoneelse. And in bringing it back to
(48:00):
what I'm saying is, I see andhear that proselytization of a
statement, and then whimsicallyjust throw it out the window.
It's like, what happened to thatpride in that moment, you have
so much pride to identifyyourself, you have so much pride
to say what you stand for. Butthen on the same token, you
(48:21):
throw it out the window in theditch for someone else to pick
it up for you. Wow, that's,that's some that's a Greek
tragedy right there to me, at afundamental level. So how am I
supposed to walk into a bigMetropolitan art opening? How am
(48:42):
I supposed to go in there and beable to meet someone I if I
can't even think, to not throwshit in the ditch. That That to
me in maybe I'm just tooutopian. But you can't get on a
high horse. If you're trottingit through all the trash you
(49:08):
through.
Matthew Fluharty (49:12):
So, Carl, I'm really grateful for all your
time today. And I think as we aswe come to the end of our time
together, and hopefully we'renot riding off on high horses.
Hopefully they're medium sizedhorses. I just want to ask you a
final question that, you know,we're really fixing to ask a
(49:34):
number of our guests just tokeep this range of associations
going. You know, whichis what? What music what books,
films, artists, are you thinkingabout right now? I mean, where
it is, your creative space, sortof resonating with some new
associations and newconnections. what's what's been
(49:55):
inspiring you lately?
Karl Unnasch (49:56):
Um, you know, I gotta admit, I'm digging My
innerspace right now, I'm doingthe best I can to do a lot of
self reflection, selfimprovement even. I'm trying to
check myself. And to make surethat I'm doing you know, I'm
walking the walk here. And thatmeans it goes back to me talking
(50:17):
about, you know, do I want to beright? Or do I want to be
correct? And a lot of poker, alot of people think they're both
Well, I want to make sure I am.
So I want to be correct aboutbeing right and correct. So to
do that, I'm going to have toreally ask myself a lot of
personal questions that once Ikick off, you know, once I'm
once I'm exit stage left, I canhonestly walk out with my head
(50:38):
held high, not prideful, butjust say, Okay, I did okay. To
do that, I've got to make surethat my house is in order. And
to do that, and I'm, I'm tryingto see more of who I am. I'm
investigating certain aspects ofmy personality that have been a
challenge over the years and intrying to steer the battleship a
(51:00):
little bit. So that that's not aproblem anymore. That doesn't
hinder me as much, I'm trying toget rid of my distractions a lot
more. So I can even take thingsto the next level, and be better
at what it is that I that I'mpassionate and think that I can
be mindful enough to do right bythe rest of the world. So that
said, I'm looking into I'mreading a book right now about
(51:23):
giftedness, by Davidson,paczynski. I think it came out,
but 10 years ago, it's got somenuggets in there, that's
helpful. And it's helping toexplain some of the things I
just talked about some of thethings I just alluded to here as
far as like, what's what's mademy life more of a challenge, and
how I can correct my course sothat it's not such a challenge,
(51:46):
and I can actually have betterfocus on the things I want to
talk about. So that's my readingright now. As far as music goes,
um, it goes back to I'm diggingsome, some Americana in this. I
mean, I discovered you know,just by accident, No One No One
put in front of me when, whenyou when you're in your studio
(52:08):
alone a lot and you have accessto Pandora, you really try to
make the most of it. And I'mreally digging some of the new
stuff I'm finding new for me butprobably not new for a lot of
people in the audience. WaylonPayne sturgill Simpson people
whose stories kind of fallalongside the the, the the
gravel road, where I'm travelingand where I've traveled, and
(52:31):
what helps make my story so far.
And that's and that's good. AndI'm also digging, well, I'm
digging some weird and coolfusion stuff that that Have you
ever heard of the group that whoAh, you the Who? from Mongolia,
I need to hear this traditionalsymphonic Mongolian metal. It's
(53:00):
like some of the most funfarmboy punk I could ever wrap
my head around. And it goes backto my earlier days of pop metal
back in the day when I wasriding the school bus. And I
can't help but be attracted toit. But the thing is, is that
it's these are just four four orfive six guys who are symphonic
(53:21):
Li trained in traditional folk,Mongolian string instruments and
whatnot. And they are blastingthey kept them in this is 10
years ago, they started youknow, really getting mainstream,
but I can't help but sit thereand just listen to their stuff.
And it just it's visceral. Tome. It's like this, this. It's
primal. And it speaks to, youknow, you can hear the you can
(53:46):
hear the civic pride, you canhear the nature you can hear,
well, literally sometimes youcan hear the wild animals that
they incorporate into the samemusic and, and the open ended
stories from getting this conall the way to their love for
the female spirit. So I'mthinking that you said is it Who
(54:08):
are those you spelled h you thewho it's I don't I wish I knew
more. I wish I had the time todig, dig into more about them.
But I'm still I'm still tryingto absorb what they're doing for
me. always seeking alwayscurious, but also finding things
that I have some connection to,you know, trying to make that
trying to bridge that gap withan arc that isn't too long, but
(54:30):
just enough so you can still geta solid weld.
Matthew Fluharty (54:34):
This is a really great opportunity, as
we're sort of closing out ourtime together to welcome folks
to also check out the show noteson the high visibility.org site
for our conversation together sothat they can immediately
introduce themselves with thework of the who and a number of
(54:55):
these other associations thatyou've so graciously welcomed
forth to us. Oh, over ourconversation together. Carl,
thanks again for your time andfor this conversation today. And
thank you so much for your workwithin the high visibility show.
It's It's an honor to have yourperspective and all of the lived
experience that comes forward inhusk in the space of the Plains
(55:17):
Art Museum for the highvisibility exhibition.
Karl Unnasch (55:20):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's, it's been a
heck of a journey. And it'sstill going on here. If I if I'm
not being too forward here, I dowant to give props to a couple
people that helped make ushaskap into the fabrication was
done by a good friend, Samspitzkoppe sartell St.
cloudways. In Minnesota, he's amasterful artisan of the weld
art. I got nothing but you know,full on. bear hug, respect for
(55:44):
him. And then also, obviously,you know, big thanks to Nicole
and all her patients for helpingme out, getting all the all the
unseen stuff done. I wouldn't beable to do that without her. And
also a shout out to Mike samito.
Out Mankato way, who way backin, oh, gosh, they 2015 showed
(56:09):
up at my doorstep. And I tookhim in to show him a few tricks.
And then we've been solidfriends ever since. So he's been
a big help on a lot of the stuffI've done with these projects.
So it's not something that Ijust do by myself, even though
the idea is is comes from my ownexperiences. We have to remember
that that there are people thathelp us along the way and I
(56:31):
think it's important that weshout them out. totally right.
Matthew Fluharty (56:37):
You've been listening to high visibility
podcast produced by art of therural and Plains Art Museum.
Please join the conversation atplains art.org
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