August 18, 2025 • 34 mins
Change is constant in leadership, but when does it harm more than help? This episode examines balancing adaptation and avoiding overwhelming your team.
From Blockbuster’s resistance to pivoting when Netflix emerged, to the risks of moving too fast and causing burnout, we identify signs of "change fatigue.” You’ll learn how shifting priorities, poor follow-through, and lost trust can hinder progress.
We talk through strategies for pacing change, distinguish KPIs (forward-looking) from KPMs (backward-looking), and why leaders should act as “chief reminding officers” to keep teams focused.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
all right.
Well, fellas, we're back foranother episode.
We're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Episode 31 we're just gonna say what?
No, what number are we?
We on, because we're getting upthere now.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Almost getting to my age, which is 32.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
I can tell you it's thetoughest thing to try and keep
track of what episode we're on.
When I'm trying to plan theseout, I'm trying to remember
because we've had.
You know, technically it's likeseason three, but we like
episode five, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Anyways, thank, god for thank.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank god for notion hey, you know keep track of
everything, so hey, we'll do it.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
We'll do an episode about notion.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How about that?
I would love to, because I feellike I'm gonna learn why y'all
talk, because I still don'tunderstand it.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I love you think the average off topic, do you think
their average person can learnnotion?
You're asking me yeah, I meancan, can?
Uh, yeah, do they have to havetech knowledge to know notion?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
no, I think it's situational.
I think it depends on whatyou're trying to do, because,
like, I'm a big apple notes guyand I think it's very powerful,
but I also use evernote yeah,but people are listening right
now.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
They're like I have no idea what notion is that's
what?
I'm about to say.
It's like Evernote on steroids.
That's basically what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah Well, some people like me.
I actually Googled how to havea template, how to get a
template from Notion, and itpopped up this podcast template
and I was like, oh, that's cool,I'll load that in there.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It costs like $30 or whatever I know, and you're
trying to figure out how to stayorganized.
People sell templates, so youdon't have to do it yourself.
That's right, you can learn.
It's a great.
It's a great topic.
I mean, look for me as acreator and you know a content
or a creative director.
I've got to have systems andprocesses, so I know projects,
(01:58):
where we're at, when peoplesubmit them.
So things like this isphenomenal.
Yeah, I love it, benji.
It helps me keep track ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So but watch, watch this.
It really helped change ourtrajectory.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That was bad.
Is that joke Brady's bad dadjokes that he gives us.
You have a chance at the end ofthe episode to redeem yourself,
brady, so please, as you'retalking, think through that.
I need you to redeem that thatwas bad Okay.
Well, we'll see what we can comeup with.
Well, let's get on track, then,because our listeners are like
(02:35):
what podcast have I stumbledinto?
But no, so we're talking todayabout when has change too much,
and this topic actually came upduring our last two episodes.
We did a two-parter on mid-yearevaluations How's your team
doing?
Do you need to make changes?
We talked about how important itis to make changes, how
important that maybe you don'tneed to make change, and I think
, benji, you were sharing thatyou had some of our listeners
(02:56):
that actually kind of wereasking you about some of these
things, which is where thisepisode came from.
How do you know when change istoo much?
And to me, that's a validquestion, because you know
you've been too much and you maybreak what you've created.
So how do you know when that is?
So we're excited to kind ofjump into that, you know.
Just talk about what that means, what that looks like, and for
(03:20):
you as listeners right now, ifyou did make those changes, am I
going too far to the right, toofar to the left, or how do I
stay right in the middle?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I mean we did.
We had a couple people reachout when it's changed too much
and I thought, like we alwayswould, we'd start off with some
kind of story of a company thatmay have tried change.
If you haven't gone back andlistened to the five coaching
habits of an excellent, you'vegot halftime adjustments, one
halftime adjustments to go backand listen to those three
(03:49):
episodes, because those threekind of all tie together.
Which is going to bring this,this change point, home.
We talked about in halftime one.
You know what changes should bemade.
We talked about in episode twoof that halftime adjustments.
When should you not make change?
You know there are times thatyou don't really need to make
adjustments, but there are sometimes you do.
(04:10):
So everyone remembers theBlockbuster video company.
Back in the day you used tohave to go down to your local
store, retail shop or whateverit's good times Good.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Friday night.
Really good time, it really was.
They even had popcorn in there.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I, I, you guys were probably like us.
Obviously, brady and I grew uptogether.
We would look forward to.
We looked forward to the timewhen they started putting video
games on the shelf.
Oh yeah, rent the video game.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You know and you had to get every bit that you could,
because you had to take thatsucker back on monday.
You did friday because youcould make it to monday with it,
but you knew you had to playthat video game all weekend.
And why was that?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Why'd?
You have to take it back.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You should return it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I know, but I mean what happens if you didn't?
Oh, then they're going tocharge you a fee.
They're going to charge you afee.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So blockbuster?
I'm in trouble there goes myallowance and I can't earn a
game the next week.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And they're going, and next time you go in you're
like this video, plus your latefees and you used to get fees
for not rewinding.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Remember, please be kind rewind.
Yeah, be kind rewind.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Be kind, rewind, we're going back in the day.
But yeah, blockbuster Video.
I mean, everyone looked forwardto going Friday night renting a
movie, renting a game orwhatever, and coming back having
it for the weekend.
It was a big deal and, to yourpoint, if you didn't take it
back, you had late fees.
So there was this littlecompany back in the day called
Netflix Little it was.
Actually.
Before it was Netflix, it was aDVD rental company.
(05:33):
What they would do is theywould ship you the DVDs to your
house, so you didn't have to goto the store anymore.
They would ship them to yourhouse, in your mailbox, and then
, when you were done, you wouldship them back.
And guess what?
They said no late fees, right?
So Netflix said hey,blockbuster, we want to buy you
out.
And Blockbuster was like I don'tknow about this, we want to be
(05:59):
a competitor of yours.
So they got locked into theretail shop, people coming to
their location or what have you?
Netflix just said you know whatwe're going to do.
We're going to do it evenbigger and better.
We're going to go the world ofstreaming.
Because back then, apple yes,we're Apple fans, as you all
know.
I think it was 2003.
They introduced the whole.
We're going to eventually havea cloud service one day where
you can stream you can do this,you can do that and Netflix is
(06:20):
like late 2000s.
They, netflix is like late2000s.
They go, hey, we're going to,we're going to go ahead and
start trying to figure out howwe can implement that now.
Well, look at Blockbuster.
They didn't change, they didn'troll with the and there was, by
the way, the value on thatcompany was, I mean,
extraordinary.
It would have been.
They could merge with them.
It would have been a huge, huge, huge purchase, but they
(06:42):
decided not to.
And guess what happened?
They went bankrupt.
So there are times, as Bradytalked about, you need to make
change.
There are times you don't needto make change.
But today, as leaders, how dowe know when change is actually
helping us grow and when it'seroding to trust and focus?
Ok, we all agree.
We talked about it again thelast two episodes Change is
(07:03):
necessary for survival.
We all agree, we talked aboutit again the last two episodes
change is necessary for survival.
But if you continue toconstantly change all the time
without clarity Brady, that's abig word in our organization
right now Clarity can causeconfusion, fatigue and
disengagement, because if you'renot clear and you don't give
the expectations to your team ofexactly what they should and
shouldn't be doing or whatever,they get really confused.
(07:25):
Right, and there's this wholewell, am I doing it right?
Well, it's not passing downthrough my company.
No matter if you have a companyof five employees, 50 employees
, 500, 500, that doesn't matter,you still have to cast that
down to your team.
But here's the thing Excellentleaders provide a reliable
foundation, even during thetransitions.
(07:45):
Reliability doesn't meanresisting the change.
It means being consistent inyour vision, values and, most
importantly, we believe,communication.
So, when, what?
What are a couple of signs thatwe're changing too much?
Okay, there's this one thingcalled change fatigue, and then
(08:07):
I'm going to open up to you guysto let's.
Let's talk through it for asecond.
But team members get burnout,frustrated or apathy, right,
they're like man, I'm just, Ican't do this anymore.
We call that change fatigue.
So, adam Brady, is there anexample that you can think of
where maybe our team has feltthis in the past, or even
(08:27):
recently?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh yeah, I mean, I can think of not only our team
but even other teams, becausewe've talked about it on the
show before.
But I'm in C12, and so I getthe opportunity to get insight
from other teams.
To get insight from other teams, and we were on a call the
other day.
We do this thing called, orevery month somebody gives a
core business presentation, sowe get to interview team members
(08:51):
from other people's teams, andthis actually came up the other
day, and so one of the actuallyboth teammates said that, you
know, we talked about the shinyobject syndrome.
Yep, okay, well, man, this is agreat idea, let's go do that
today.
You know that we talked aboutthe shiny object syndrome.
Yep, okay, well, man, this is agreat idea, let's go do that
(09:12):
today.
You know, and, uh and so, and,and we as leaders, sometimes we
get really passionate about that.
Well, what it does for the teamis talking about change.
Fatigue is.
That was one thing that theywere kind of frustrated about is
they said well, man, threemonths ago this X was the goal,
and so we were working toward X,and then, you know, just last
week, the goal completelychanged.
(09:32):
So we don't know, like, wheredo we stand?
What are we?
We're always.
Well, we're going here, andwe're going here.
You know we're going to have tohire like a uh, like a virtual,
uh, chiropractor or something,cause our, our next just doing,
you know, just keeps going leftand right, and so that that's
what we, we as leaders, we likenew things.
(09:52):
I mean we, we like to to shakethings up and uh, but I think a
lot of times it does cause, um,I know, adam and I've had this
conversation before and it'slike hey, can we stick?
Can we, can we decide onsomething and can we stick to it
?
You know, and um, and then you,you just run through it until
it's just not working and thenyou can change it, you know, if
(10:14):
it's really not working.
But uh, like we talked about inone of the last episodes I
can't remember if it was lastepisode or the one before that
but, um, sometimes we, we wantto change, not because it's
broken, it's just because it'shard.
And so let's don't, as leaders,let's stay the course and let's
see it through.
Yeah, I mean Be mindful of ourteams.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yep, yes, and as someone that's been an employee
even somebody that is that likeI'm not running an organization
doing know, even somebody thatis that like I'm not running an
organization doing anything, butsomeone who is kind of
following out what's being askedof me you start to set your
goals right, Like you start toset your mind on things.
One of the things we actuallytalked about yesterday we had
(10:57):
our own little strategic planyesterday for the church.
We sat in on all staff.
We actually had offsite.
It was cool.
We went to River Chase CountryClub over here.
It just spent half the daygoing through things.
And one of the things that welook at is when you develop your
strategic plan, that's yourgoal for the year, and that was
one of the things I told him.
I said, look, everything we dothis year should strive toward
(11:21):
that goal.
What is our strategic plan forthis year?
And if we're doing things thataren't moving toward that goal,
then why are we doing them?
That's right, man, that is sogood, Adam, and that was
something I had brought up withour pastor.
I said we've got to set thesegoals and move toward them,
Because then you're just wastingtime, right, If it's not
meeting the overall goal, you'rewasting time.
(11:43):
So, as an employee, sometimeswhen you're changing too much, I
may have based the you know, myyear or what I'm trying to do
or the processes I'm putting inplace, not just with me as an
employee, but if it's someonethat I'm managing people, it
looks like there'sinconsistencies from me as a
leader, because we're startingto change.
(12:04):
Well, like you said, Brady Ithought it was a great point you
said, well, like a few monthsago, this was like this, was it?
You know, and I understandyou're going to meet goals,
right, Like you're going to.
You're going to achieve those.
So you need to put things inplace.
But those overall big things,your processes, if they're not
broken, but you're changing themjust because you find something
else, it's going to hurt thatand then I feel like you're not
(12:26):
going to be moving toward thatultimate goal that you're
looking for the year, yeah, Well, and I think one thing too,
here is as human beings, it ishard for us to focus on multiple
things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Okay, Now, I know a lot of people when I was in this
boat at some point in time andI was like you know what?
I'm a great multitasker.
Right, there is no such thingas multitasking.
Okay, there might bemicrotasking, but there's no
such thing as multitasking.
So think about your situation.
Let's say you're focused in onworking on a project.
I was talking to one of ourteammates the other day, focused
(12:59):
in on working on something.
Working on a task, a project,whatnot?
Working on something.
Working on a task, a project,whatnot?
And then you get a phone calland you're like do I, you know?
And you take the call and thenturns into a 30 minute
conversation.
Then you get done.
What happens?
We lost focus on what we weredoing and now we have to refocus
, and that takes a lot of effort.
(13:19):
So that's what I think, wherethat change fatigue comes in is
losing focus on what we decidedwe were going to do, just to go
okay, chase something different.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah Cause, how long does it take you to pick up and
go now, where'd I stop there?
I got to.
So that's, that's the actually.
The second one is loss of focus.
You know, your goals andpriorities shift so often that
nothing gets executed.
And you look up.
You look up throughout the dayand you go.
Well, I was scheduled to do one, two, three, but man, I did
seven, eight, nine.
I never even touched one, two,three.
(13:49):
So I totally understand whatyou're saying there.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, well, there's a .
I can't remember who said this,we'll have to find it.
But somebody said wheneverything's important nothing
is Yep, yep.
You know.
So when we're not focused in onwhat we're trying to do, trying
to accomplish the goal, thetarget, then it's like I don't
know.
I don't know what's important.
You know, everything must beimportant, that's just.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That can't be the case I think go ahead, adam.
Sorry, I didn't mean to.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
No, I think that's great, because that also kind of
puts you in a place to look atthat change.
Like, is your focus too,because you've got too many
things you're getting put on.
You, like do you have processesin place to say you know,
that's one of the things we'reworking through now.
We get a lot of requests.
We have the ability to dothings that we never could
(14:38):
before at the church, and so ourcreative team fuels that
pressure because we want to havea sense of excellence, right,
like, hey, I've got somebody nowthat can help me do it better
than I did.
But I sense that a lot whereyou have that accessibility to
come in and walk in the door anddo that.
One of the things that we talkedabout yesterday when you're
(14:58):
talking about change, is we needto move away from a mom and pop
mentality to a largecorporation mentality, and what
I mean by that is mom and pop.
I could walk in your office,brady, and be like hey, brady,
you got five minutes, I got totalk to you about something and
do it, but we're not there andwe've moved past that.
I think, yes, in our beginningyears, like with Team Wilson,
(15:20):
yes, we could do that we couldwalk in your office and ask that
, and I don't see it as adisrespect from you guys.
I look at it as you got to befocused on what you do because
we're running a larger,well-oiled machine.
Now, if we need to havesomething to talk to you about,
I need to look at your scheduleand schedule time with you, um,
so I can fit that and that'salso a way to respect the person
(15:40):
that you're trying to do aswell, or trying to help so you
don't lose focus.
And it can be, because if Idon't follow through and what
I'm supposed to do, you're gonnalose trust in me.
Be well, I can't ask Adambecause he's not going to do it.
So, and then and then they'rejust your team culture starts to
deteriorate.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, you look up and I mean again going to the next
one.
You people start to distrustthe leadership because you're
constantly trying to change,change, change and they can't
ever follow through, like wewere just talking.
They can't ever follow throughwith the task at hand because,
hey, we need to shift over here,you need to shift over here,
you need to shift over here.
So they start losing trust inthe leadership, which ultimately
(16:21):
leads to potential highturnover because your employees,
they feel like it's chaoticenvironment and they can't stay
focused on it.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, I mean, a real example here is from us and I'll
just pick on myself.
But you know our team, as youguys know, I like to read, I
like to listen, I like to learn,you know, and sometimes that
gets magnified and gets kind ofput on our team, and I guess it
was about three or four monthsago, they were like, brady, you
(16:51):
read as much as you want to read, but like don't quit trying to
implement the next newest bookor the next newest strategy,
because we're getting tired,like we haven't done the last
thing that you've asked us to do.
We haven't done or read thelast book or implemented that
thing.
And so we as leaders have to bewilling to learn.
And it didn't stop me fromdoing those things, it just
(17:14):
stopped me from maybe sharinguntil we've got the last thing
that we try to implement.
So just be cognizant of that, Ithink, as a leader.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We talked about a few episodes ago the five coaching
habits of excellent leader.
I thought we might recap thatfor a second, because these are
leadership habits that canmanage the pace of your change.
Brady just talked about itwithout saying it this way
Remember, the first one wasexplain expectations.
So we got to be clear on whythe change is happening and how
(17:49):
it can align with what Adammentioned the long term goal.
Because if it doesn't fit inthe long-term goal, you might
have a couple sub points underthere to help you get to the
long-term goal.
But why are we making thischange but it's not aligning to
the long-term goal, to thestrategic target, to that point,
very, very important toremember.
(18:09):
Next, ask questions.
Remember, like Brady just said,the team said you know well,
you're giving us this next bookor this next highlight or
whatever.
We've never, we haven'tcompleted the one you just talk
about.
So keep your team involvedbecause let them be an open
forum to provide that positivefeedback before we decide to
roll out the new changes.
(18:30):
Before we decide to roll outthe new changes and, like Adam
mentioned a few minutes ago, youknow you're always going to
have those quarter to quarterthings you might accomplish that
task and you're like, you knowwhat.
I've accomplished that one, butnow I need to have a new task
that helps me get to thestrategic goal, get to the long
term goal.
So use them.
Use them for that.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So you can develop a system for that.
I mean, that's something, brady, that you're doing.
Go ahead, you can develop asystem for that.
I mean that's something, brady,that you're doing Right now.
You're going through.
You created something calledCoffee with a CEO.
Gives you a chance to say, heyguys, this is an open forum.
You know, nobody other than thepeople in this room know what
we're talking about.
I want you to share with mewhat is working, what is not
(19:11):
working.
Okay, you say it's not working,but you need to provide an
example why you know, you can'tjust say, oh, you know, we don't
have system and processes.
Well, that seems very broad.
We need to narrow that downright, like you're.
Like when you say that, whatdoes that mean?
So I think, giving someone todo that, involving the team and
asking them those questions andhaving them be specific.
We talked about that yesterdaybecause we did exactly that.
(19:31):
We put issues on the board andour pastor was like, hey, okay,
great, these are great examples.
We got communication, we gotthis, we got that.
Communication's like this.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's a broad spectrum .
Do you mean, like, with ourchurch members?
Do you mean with our staff, ourserve team or our dream team
Sorry, that's what we call oursDo you mean just students, like
what does that mean?
So I think something where yousit down and start asking those
questions like, all right, great, you think there's an issue,
let's narrow that down andfigure these things out.
(20:06):
So now we can say, all right,this is your input, and then
they're seeing if there ischange involved.
They're seeing change.
What I feel like is from whatthe suggestion came.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, and I think that's a great point because you
know us being a large, alarge-ish organization one of
the things that we have, we havea communication gap and really
it's a.
It's a cascading communicationgap, so what?
So one thing that the Coffeewith the CEO does is we may put
a change in at the top and say,okay, leaders, go implement this
(20:40):
change all throughout theorganization and then people get
frustrated because it's likewhen you're in grade school and
you do the whole gossip game upgame, you know the person that
that was told first and then bythe time it makes it through 20
people, the, the, the uh, thecontent is different.
Well, when I get to sit downwith everybody, then you start
to hear some of these concernshey, what's not working?
(21:02):
And I said, well, let me takeyou back to the why we decided
to do that.
And it's been amazing to saythey said, man, if I would have
heard it like that then I wouldhave got on board with it.
So those are some growing painsthat we're going through in our
organization is even changesthat we made back in January.
(21:25):
We're not changing somethingelse up, but changes that we've
made haven't really cascadedwith clarity down to the people
that really need to understandwhat that is.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, and I know, I know hope's not a good strategy.
It is not a good strategy, it'snot.
But what I want to do isprovide hope, like, look, we
have a.
Our team is nowhere near thesize of the team that you guys
have.
We're 10 to 15, and we stillexperience that.
Oh yeah, and you that, and youwould think, well, I mean,
that's 10 to 15 people, weshould easily be able to have
that communication.
But that's where I was sayinglike we've got to get out of the
(21:59):
mom and pop mindset, like I'mjust going to walk in Adam's
office and say, hey, man, I needthis video, can you knock it
out?
And I want to say, well, yes,but we consider ourselves small
but mighty right, like we're.
I mean, we have a very largeamount of people on campus on
Sundays and it's a lot ofpressure, and so there's
pressure from all differentministries in the church.
(22:22):
That needs to get done.
So we need to find theseprojects, because we don't want
to just be good at theseprojects, we want to be
excellent.
We want to set the standard.
We've talked about that.
Like, hey, we as a creativeteam want to be excellent.
We want to set the standard.
We've talked about that.
Like, hey, we as a creativeteam want to be the standard.
We feel like we spend our timelooking at whatever churches are
doing, looking at the biggerchurches, your elevations, your
Church of the Highlands, yourLife Church.
We want to get to where wedon't do that anymore.
(22:45):
We want to have our process.
I mean, yes, you're going tolook at that for encouragement,
you're going to look at that forfor ideas, but we want to be
able to, to be the standard anddo those things and and and.
That's something that weexperience, even as a small team
, the same thing that you guysare experiencing on a larger
scale.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah it's, and you guys have mentioned it, you,
we involve the team, get theirownership in the change, how
it's going to be implemented,because, again, remember, not
too much and measuring theresults.
I wanted to kind of park here asecond because we've been
talking about something in ourleadership teams that I think
could help other leadershipteams.
You know whether, trackingwhether each change is actually
(23:25):
delivering the value there's abig difference between KPI and
KPM and I thought it'd be goodfor Brady to kind of share that,
because people don't understand.
You've got a metrics but youhave an indicator.
So, Brady, touch on that just asecond.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, I think what we've realized here recently is
that we have a lot of KPMs, wehave a lot of data, but what are
the indicators that are leadingus to making the right decision
?
So I think we've talked aboutthis a little bit before, but
KPIs and KPMs are not the samething.
A KPI is a key performanceindicator and a KPM is a key
(24:03):
performance metric.
So the way that you look at itis a KPI is the windshield and
the KPM is a rearview mirror.
So you've got to look at both.
You've got to see where you'vecome from, where you've been,
what you've been through, uh,all those types of things.
But what are the like, thewindshield and the dash?
So, like, if the and it couldbe different.
(24:23):
It's different for everyorganization.
It's different for everydepartment.
You know.
The analogy I like to use is thethree of us drive a different
vehicle.
Okay, so if, if we are drivingdown the road and our gas light
comes on, all right, well, foreach one of us, that means
something different.
For Adam, it may be.
(24:43):
I got to pull over now becauseif I don't, then I'm going to
run out of gas.
You know, for me it could be.
You know I got 60 miles left.
I can make it to home and churchand back and do that twice or
whatever the case may be, butit's an indicator, silly example
, but an indicator of somethingthat you need to take action on
(25:04):
now, and so think about that inyour business.
And these indicators are if.
I guess the thing about it isif you, if you get the
indicators right and you act onthe indicators, everything else
takes care of itself.
Yeah, you know, you'll be ableto look at your metrics and say,
oh, wow, you know what?
Yeah, we, we had good revenues,we had good profits, we had
(25:25):
good whatever the case may be,but we paid attention to the
indicators, we made decisions onthose indicators that we needed
to make in the moment.
Right and not, it's more of apractice of being proactive
versus reactive.
You know, being proactive andmaking those adjustments as you
go.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So, yeah, yeah, I would always rather just I don't
want to react to everything,because then I feel like I'm not
, I'm not ready for it, I'm notplanned.
I want to be proactive and knowhow much is it going to cost me
.
What do I need to have, whatshould I do?
What, where should I go?
How should I plan?
Like I always want to make surethat I'm proactive, that not
reacting to a situation.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, always trying to be proactive, not reactive.
So, and then, last but notleast, just appreciate people
recognize their efforts.
So one to talk through as wewrap this episode up.
You know a couple of leadershiptakeaways that you might could
take home with you, pass alongto your team.
Uh, again, we're on YouTube soyou can actually watch this with
your team.
It's a great, great tool, butum, anchor and vision, keeping
(26:29):
the North star consistent sothat your team has something to
hold on to during thetransitions.
Again, there there are going towhen it's changed too much, it's
all up to the business, it'sall up to the leader.
You have to be able to figureout what that looks like and
pace it accordingly, because ifyou try it again, as we've been
talking, make too much change.
I love the analogy Brady usedas a virtual chiropractor.
(26:51):
You know they sometimes they'rejust they're, they're on their
heads on a swivel and they'relike man.
Which way do I go?
So make sure that you youintroduce these shifts in
manageable waves rather thanjust all at one time, because it
can really cause issues.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, and just to kind of dive back to what you're
saying, Brady, I love thatbecause I go to a chiropractor.
That's not your typical right,like most people see it on
social media.
I think you go in and theycrack you up and down, right, I
think I go to the same one we do.
I go to the same one we do, wego.
It's a very different process.
It is very different, but I'min there.
What Five minutes, maybe 10minutes If I'm, if I'm chatty
(27:30):
with with, with the doctor thatI, that I use.
But I even said something toEmily.
I can't tell if it's working,is it?
Do I feel it?
Is it working?
Do you hear it?
Do you hear it?
You do, you do?
It's probably working.
But I just have my yearly, sowe're going through the email.
And I told my doctor and I lovehim, he's great, he's a super
(27:50):
nice guy, I love him and I saidI told him, dr Marty, I mean,
it's not.
You know we're paying thismonthly, we're doing it.
Do I need to keep doing?
And he made a point and I don'tfeel like he's doing it just to
keep me there as a patient.
He said, adam, you have tothink You're maintaining?
Have you had another injurylike you had a year ago and I
threw my back out, putting mypants on?
(28:12):
Y'all?
Like literally put my pants on.
I mean, remember me walkingaround that office?
How old are you again?
I'm 41.
It was the day before.
Yeah, but y'all remember likeit was bad, but he's not wrong.
And my point is I go in andwhen I tell you it's minor, like
(28:37):
it's, I go in every two weeksmaybe, and he makes an
adjustment on my neck and hetalks to me about how I'm
feeling and I'll tell him like,hey, my shoulders bother me, I
know that you know this.
Hey, I'm feeling it, and whereI threw my back out, you know.
And he'll make a couple minoradjustments, but I still I
haven't done it again and I feelhealthy with it.
So I mean, you may not realizethose small minute changes.
You're not making ton, you'renot making big ones.
(28:58):
They may not seem apparentright now, but I feel like over
time you're going to notice, hey, this is working.
This is injury prevention.
I haven't I've been able to goin and deadlift heavyweight
again or I've been able to pickup my kids or something like
that.
So you talked about that sofrequently, barry.
It made me think more.
I mean, that's what I'm justthinking, is it working?
(29:19):
More, I mean these, that's whatI'm just thinking Like, is it
working?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yes, it is.
I can't tell the moment, so soI would, I would.
I would change one thing aboutthat.
Okay, no pun intended, changeone thing about that.
What they're doing is notchanging anything.
What they're doing is adjusting.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yes, okay.
So they're, they're makingadjustments, cause I go to the
same doctors PrecisionChiropractic shout out to them
and Pellum, you know, butthey're phenomenal, and they
don't put you on the table and,like you know, crack everything
that you got in your body.
They have a little machine thatsays, oh, you got a little
inflammation there, do we needto adjust that area?
And then, oh, that area.
(29:57):
And so they're using it as akey performance indicator to say
, hey, that needs a littleadjustment, adjustment,
adjustment.
And what I like in that too isand this is something we've been
telling our team here recentlyis I think we as human beings
work best when we are in rhythm.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So think about a song that youlisten to or somebody.
(30:20):
Maybe I was going to say at yourchurch and something wasn't in
rhythm, but I mean, I guess thatcould happen.
But when something's off rhythm, then you know that it's off.
It just feels weird, right?
And so the reason you go to thechiropractor and make those
adjustments is because you'reputting your body in rhythm and
you may not necessarily noticethat there's anything going on.
(30:42):
It's actually an indicator thatyou're healthy because there is
nothing going on.
And so what we've beenencouraging our team is,
whatever our goals, ourstrategic objectives, all those
different things that we've setout for our team, we've got to
beat the drum and we've got tostay in rhythm and keep
communicating and keep sayingthe same things and making sure
(31:05):
that we're cascading it down toour employees and doing it the
same way every single time.
And we've talked about this onthe show before, but every
leader that's out there is thechief reminding officer.
You should be a broken record.
You should get some proverbialeye rolls when you keep saying
(31:25):
the same things over and overand over again, because that's
when you know that people havegot it and it's sunk in is
because it's like oh, there goesAdam again.
You know he's talking about the.
You know whatever the case maybe, but you know that it's
making root.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, and you just said it, brady.
Communicate, often Repeat thewhy behind the change until it's
clear and connected to the bigpicture.
Beat the drum.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You know that's so good.
We talked about yesterday aboutserving people serving, and
culturally, we're at a placewhere everyone's busy.
I mean, I feel like cultureteaches us if you're not busy,
you're doing something wrong,like, and so finding people to
be all part of the serve teamcan can be tough, and one of the
things we talked about was weneed to do a better job in
(32:12):
teaching why a life ofservanthood is important and and
that and and that's somethingand we felt like we do, but we
need to be better at it, likeexplaining that, like, hey, why?
Why is it important to dothings for others and not expect
anything in return?
(32:32):
Why is it good to do that?
So I, to me, that's just soimportant with anything that
you're doing, because if theyunderstand the why, they're
going to keep doing it andthey'll want to do it more too.
Want to do it more.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I mean, I'll state the obvious.
You know, captain, obvious, butJesus said I came to serve, not
to be served.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, that's exactly right, A hundred percent.
So, yeah, and think about this.
Remember not all change isworth making, but guard the
values and behaviors that canmake your business stronger.
And I want to hone in on thisas we wrap up, but let's recap
this, the main point todayChange is healthy when it drives
growth, but harmful when iterodes trust, focus and
(33:11):
stability.
Okay, Reflect back on this,listeners, Reflect on this.
Am I leading my team?
Now, this doesn't mean you haveto be a business owner.
For any listeners out there, itcould be someone in leadership
management, Maybe you're on theground supervisor, whatever that
may be.
It could be just the role thatyou play on whatever team you're
on.
Am I helping lead my teamthrough intentional change or
(33:36):
accidental chaos?
When I found this, it hit homewith me.
Am I leading my team throughintentional change or accidental
chaos?
Keep the North Star the NorthStar moving in the right
direction.
If it doesn't drive back to themain goal, why are we doing it?
(33:57):
Listeners, we want to just thankyou all for tuning in today.
We want your feedback.
If there's something, a storythat you have out there, that
you've navigated through changeand we would love to share it on
the show or be able to you knowhelp.
Just give you some pointers.
Reach out to us at higher uppodcast on any of our social
platforms.
Online the higher up podcastcom.
Thank you guys so much fortuning in, as always, go out
(34:20):
there and choose to live ahigher up life.
See you next time.
all right.
Well, fellas, we're back foranother episode.
We're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Episode 31 we're just gonna say what?
No, what number are we?
We on, because we're getting upthere now.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Almost getting to my age, which is 32.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
I can tell you it's thetoughest thing to try and keep
track of what episode we're on.
When I'm trying to plan theseout, I'm trying to remember
because we've had.
You know, technically it's likeseason three, but we like
episode five, you know.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Anyways, thank, god for thank.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thank god for notion hey, you know keep track of
everything, so hey, we'll do it.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
We'll do an episode about notion.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How about that?
I would love to, because I feellike I'm gonna learn why y'all
talk, because I still don'tunderstand it.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I love you think the average off topic, do you think
their average person can learnnotion?
You're asking me yeah, I meancan, can?
Uh, yeah, do they have to havetech knowledge to know notion?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
no, I think it's situational.
I think it depends on whatyou're trying to do, because,
like, I'm a big apple notes guyand I think it's very powerful,
but I also use evernote yeah,but people are listening right
now.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
They're like I have no idea what notion is that's
what?
I'm about to say.
It's like Evernote on steroids.
That's basically what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah Well, some people like me.
I actually Googled how to havea template, how to get a
template from Notion, and itpopped up this podcast template
and I was like, oh, that's cool,I'll load that in there.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It costs like $30 or whatever I know, and you're
trying to figure out how to stayorganized.
People sell templates, so youdon't have to do it yourself.
That's right, you can learn.
It's a great.
It's a great topic.
I mean, look for me as acreator and you know a content
or a creative director.
I've got to have systems andprocesses, so I know projects,
(01:58):
where we're at, when peoplesubmit them.
So things like this isphenomenal.
Yeah, I love it, benji.
It helps me keep track ofeverything.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So but watch, watch this.
It really helped change ourtrajectory.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That was bad.
Is that joke Brady's bad dadjokes that he gives us.
You have a chance at the end ofthe episode to redeem yourself,
brady, so please, as you'retalking, think through that.
I need you to redeem that thatwas bad Okay.
Well, we'll see what we can comeup with.
Well, let's get on track, then,because our listeners are like
(02:35):
what podcast have I stumbledinto?
But no, so we're talking todayabout when has change too much,
and this topic actually came upduring our last two episodes.
We did a two-parter on mid-yearevaluations How's your team
doing?
Do you need to make changes?
We talked about how important itis to make changes, how
important that maybe you don'tneed to make change, and I think
, benji, you were sharing thatyou had some of our listeners
(02:56):
that actually kind of wereasking you about some of these
things, which is where thisepisode came from.
How do you know when change istoo much?
And to me, that's a validquestion, because you know
you've been too much and you maybreak what you've created.
So how do you know when that is?
So we're excited to kind ofjump into that, you know.
Just talk about what that means, what that looks like, and for
(03:20):
you as listeners right now, ifyou did make those changes, am I
going too far to the right, toofar to the left, or how do I
stay right in the middle?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, I mean we did.
We had a couple people reachout when it's changed too much
and I thought, like we alwayswould, we'd start off with some
kind of story of a company thatmay have tried change.
If you haven't gone back andlistened to the five coaching
habits of an excellent, you'vegot halftime adjustments, one
halftime adjustments to go backand listen to those three
(03:49):
episodes, because those threekind of all tie together.
Which is going to bring this,this change point, home.
We talked about in halftime one.
You know what changes should bemade.
We talked about in episode twoof that halftime adjustments.
When should you not make change?
You know there are times thatyou don't really need to make
adjustments, but there are sometimes you do.
(04:10):
So everyone remembers theBlockbuster video company.
Back in the day you used tohave to go down to your local
store, retail shop or whateverit's good times Good.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Friday night.
Really good time, it really was.
They even had popcorn in there.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I, I, you guys were probably like us.
Obviously, brady and I grew uptogether.
We would look forward to.
We looked forward to the timewhen they started putting video
games on the shelf.
Oh yeah, rent the video game.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
You know and you had to get every bit that you could,
because you had to take thatsucker back on monday.
You did friday because youcould make it to monday with it,
but you knew you had to playthat video game all weekend.
And why was that?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Why'd?
You have to take it back.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You should return it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, I know, but I mean what happens if you didn't?
Oh, then they're going tocharge you a fee.
They're going to charge you afee.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So blockbuster?
I'm in trouble there goes myallowance and I can't earn a
game the next week.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
And they're going, and next time you go in you're
like this video, plus your latefees and you used to get fees
for not rewinding.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Remember, please be kind rewind.
Yeah, be kind rewind.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Be kind, rewind, we're going back in the day.
But yeah, blockbuster Video.
I mean, everyone looked forwardto going Friday night renting a
movie, renting a game orwhatever, and coming back having
it for the weekend.
It was a big deal and, to yourpoint, if you didn't take it
back, you had late fees.
So there was this littlecompany back in the day called
Netflix Little it was.
Actually.
Before it was Netflix, it was aDVD rental company.
(05:33):
What they would do is theywould ship you the DVDs to your
house, so you didn't have to goto the store anymore.
They would ship them to yourhouse, in your mailbox, and then
, when you were done, you wouldship them back.
And guess what?
They said no late fees, right?
So Netflix said hey,blockbuster, we want to buy you
out.
And Blockbuster was like I don'tknow about this, we want to be
(05:59):
a competitor of yours.
So they got locked into theretail shop, people coming to
their location or what have you?
Netflix just said you know whatwe're going to do.
We're going to do it evenbigger and better.
We're going to go the world ofstreaming.
Because back then, apple yes,we're Apple fans, as you all
know.
I think it was 2003.
They introduced the whole.
We're going to eventually havea cloud service one day where
you can stream you can do this,you can do that and Netflix is
(06:20):
like late 2000s.
They, netflix is like late2000s.
They go, hey, we're going to,we're going to go ahead and
start trying to figure out howwe can implement that now.
Well, look at Blockbuster.
They didn't change, they didn'troll with the and there was, by
the way, the value on thatcompany was, I mean,
extraordinary.
It would have been.
They could merge with them.
It would have been a huge, huge, huge purchase, but they
(06:42):
decided not to.
And guess what happened?
They went bankrupt.
So there are times, as Bradytalked about, you need to make
change.
There are times you don't needto make change.
But today, as leaders, how dowe know when change is actually
helping us grow and when it'seroding to trust and focus?
Ok, we all agree.
We talked about it again thelast two episodes Change is
(07:03):
necessary for survival.
We all agree, we talked aboutit again the last two episodes
change is necessary for survival.
But if you continue toconstantly change all the time
without clarity Brady, that's abig word in our organization
right now Clarity can causeconfusion, fatigue and
disengagement, because if you'renot clear and you don't give
the expectations to your team ofexactly what they should and
shouldn't be doing or whatever,they get really confused.
(07:25):
Right, and there's this wholewell, am I doing it right?
Well, it's not passing downthrough my company.
No matter if you have a companyof five employees, 50 employees
, 500, 500, that doesn't matter,you still have to cast that
down to your team.
But here's the thing Excellentleaders provide a reliable
foundation, even during thetransitions.
(07:45):
Reliability doesn't meanresisting the change.
It means being consistent inyour vision, values and, most
importantly, we believe,communication.
So, when, what?
What are a couple of signs thatwe're changing too much?
Okay, there's this one thingcalled change fatigue, and then
(08:07):
I'm going to open up to you guysto let's.
Let's talk through it for asecond.
But team members get burnout,frustrated or apathy, right,
they're like man, I'm just, Ican't do this anymore.
We call that change fatigue.
So, adam Brady, is there anexample that you can think of
where maybe our team has feltthis in the past, or even
(08:27):
recently?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh yeah, I mean, I can think of not only our team
but even other teams, becausewe've talked about it on the
show before.
But I'm in C12, and so I getthe opportunity to get insight
from other teams.
To get insight from other teams, and we were on a call the
other day.
We do this thing called, orevery month somebody gives a
core business presentation, sowe get to interview team members
(08:51):
from other people's teams, andthis actually came up the other
day, and so one of the actuallyboth teammates said that, you
know, we talked about the shinyobject syndrome.
Yep, okay, well, man, this is agreat idea, let's go do that
today.
You know that we talked aboutthe shiny object syndrome.
Yep, okay, well, man, this is agreat idea, let's go do that
(09:12):
today.
You know, and, uh and so, and,and we as leaders, sometimes we
get really passionate about that.
Well, what it does for the teamis talking about change.
Fatigue is.
That was one thing that theywere kind of frustrated about is
they said well, man, threemonths ago this X was the goal,
and so we were working toward X,and then, you know, just last
week, the goal completelychanged.
(09:32):
So we don't know, like, wheredo we stand?
What are we?
We're always.
Well, we're going here, andwe're going here.
You know we're going to have tohire like a uh, like a virtual,
uh, chiropractor or something,cause our, our next just doing,
you know, just keeps going leftand right, and so that that's
what we, we as leaders, we likenew things.
(09:52):
I mean we, we like to to shakethings up and uh, but I think a
lot of times it does cause, um,I know, adam and I've had this
conversation before and it'slike hey, can we stick?
Can we, can we decide onsomething and can we stick to it
?
You know, and um, and then you,you just run through it until
it's just not working and thenyou can change it, you know, if
(10:14):
it's really not working.
But uh, like we talked about inone of the last episodes I
can't remember if it was lastepisode or the one before that
but, um, sometimes we, we wantto change, not because it's
broken, it's just because it'shard.
And so let's don't, as leaders,let's stay the course and let's
see it through.
Yeah, I mean Be mindful of ourteams.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yep, yes, and as someone that's been an employee
even somebody that is that likeI'm not running an organization
doing know, even somebody thatis that like I'm not running an
organization doing anything, butsomeone who is kind of
following out what's being askedof me you start to set your
goals right, Like you start toset your mind on things.
One of the things we actuallytalked about yesterday we had
(10:57):
our own little strategic planyesterday for the church.
We sat in on all staff.
We actually had offsite.
It was cool.
We went to River Chase CountryClub over here.
It just spent half the daygoing through things.
And one of the things that welook at is when you develop your
strategic plan, that's yourgoal for the year, and that was
one of the things I told him.
I said, look, everything we dothis year should strive toward
(11:21):
that goal.
What is our strategic plan forthis year?
And if we're doing things thataren't moving toward that goal,
then why are we doing them?
That's right, man, that is sogood, Adam, and that was
something I had brought up withour pastor.
I said we've got to set thesegoals and move toward them,
Because then you're just wastingtime, right, If it's not
meeting the overall goal, you'rewasting time.
(11:43):
So, as an employee, sometimeswhen you're changing too much, I
may have based the you know, myyear or what I'm trying to do
or the processes I'm putting inplace, not just with me as an
employee, but if it's someonethat I'm managing people, it
looks like there'sinconsistencies from me as a
leader, because we're startingto change.
(12:04):
Well, like you said, Brady Ithought it was a great point you
said, well, like a few monthsago, this was like this, was it?
You know, and I understandyou're going to meet goals,
right, Like you're going to.
You're going to achieve those.
So you need to put things inplace.
But those overall big things,your processes, if they're not
broken, but you're changing themjust because you find something
else, it's going to hurt thatand then I feel like you're not
(12:26):
going to be moving toward thatultimate goal that you're
looking for the year, yeah, Well, and I think one thing too,
here is as human beings, it ishard for us to focus on multiple
things.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Okay, Now, I know a lot of people when I was in this
boat at some point in time andI was like you know what?
I'm a great multitasker.
Right, there is no such thingas multitasking.
Okay, there might bemicrotasking, but there's no
such thing as multitasking.
So think about your situation.
Let's say you're focused in onworking on a project.
I was talking to one of ourteammates the other day, focused
(12:59):
in on working on something.
Working on a task, a project,whatnot?
Working on something.
Working on a task, a project,whatnot?
And then you get a phone calland you're like do I, you know?
And you take the call and thenturns into a 30 minute
conversation.
Then you get done.
What happens?
We lost focus on what we weredoing and now we have to refocus
, and that takes a lot of effort.
(13:19):
So that's what I think, wherethat change fatigue comes in is
losing focus on what we decidedwe were going to do, just to go
okay, chase something different.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah Cause, how long does it take you to pick up and
go now, where'd I stop there?
I got to.
So that's, that's the actually.
The second one is loss of focus.
You know, your goals andpriorities shift so often that
nothing gets executed.
And you look up.
You look up throughout the dayand you go.
Well, I was scheduled to do one, two, three, but man, I did
seven, eight, nine.
I never even touched one, two,three.
(13:49):
So I totally understand whatyou're saying there.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, well, there's a .
I can't remember who said this,we'll have to find it.
But somebody said wheneverything's important nothing
is Yep, yep.
You know.
So when we're not focused in onwhat we're trying to do, trying
to accomplish the goal, thetarget, then it's like I don't
know.
I don't know what's important.
You know, everything must beimportant, that's just.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
That can't be the case I think go ahead, adam.
Sorry, I didn't mean to.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
No, I think that's great, because that also kind of
puts you in a place to look atthat change.
Like, is your focus too,because you've got too many
things you're getting put on.
You, like do you have processesin place to say you know,
that's one of the things we'reworking through now.
We get a lot of requests.
We have the ability to dothings that we never could
(14:38):
before at the church, and so ourcreative team fuels that
pressure because we want to havea sense of excellence, right,
like, hey, I've got somebody nowthat can help me do it better
than I did.
But I sense that a lot whereyou have that accessibility to
come in and walk in the door anddo that.
One of the things that we talkedabout yesterday when you're
(14:58):
talking about change, is we needto move away from a mom and pop
mentality to a largecorporation mentality, and what
I mean by that is mom and pop.
I could walk in your office,brady, and be like hey, brady,
you got five minutes, I got totalk to you about something and
do it, but we're not there andwe've moved past that.
I think, yes, in our beginningyears, like with Team Wilson,
(15:20):
yes, we could do that we couldwalk in your office and ask that
, and I don't see it as adisrespect from you guys.
I look at it as you got to befocused on what you do because
we're running a larger,well-oiled machine.
Now, if we need to havesomething to talk to you about,
I need to look at your scheduleand schedule time with you, um,
so I can fit that and that'salso a way to respect the person
(15:40):
that you're trying to do aswell, or trying to help so you
don't lose focus.
And it can be, because if Idon't follow through and what
I'm supposed to do, you're gonnalose trust in me.
Be well, I can't ask Adambecause he's not going to do it.
So, and then and then they'rejust your team culture starts to
deteriorate.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, you look up and I mean again going to the next
one.
You people start to distrustthe leadership because you're
constantly trying to change,change, change and they can't
ever follow through, like wewere just talking.
They can't ever follow throughwith the task at hand because,
hey, we need to shift over here,you need to shift over here,
you need to shift over here.
So they start losing trust inthe leadership, which ultimately
(16:21):
leads to potential highturnover because your employees,
they feel like it's chaoticenvironment and they can't stay
focused on it.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, I mean, a real example here is from us and I'll
just pick on myself.
But you know our team, as youguys know, I like to read, I
like to listen, I like to learn,you know, and sometimes that
gets magnified and gets kind ofput on our team, and I guess it
was about three or four monthsago, they were like, brady, you
(16:51):
read as much as you want to read, but like don't quit trying to
implement the next newest bookor the next newest strategy,
because we're getting tired,like we haven't done the last
thing that you've asked us to do.
We haven't done or read thelast book or implemented that
thing.
And so we as leaders have to bewilling to learn.
And it didn't stop me fromdoing those things, it just
(17:14):
stopped me from maybe sharinguntil we've got the last thing
that we try to implement.
So just be cognizant of that, Ithink, as a leader.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
We talked about a few episodes ago the five coaching
habits of excellent leader.
I thought we might recap thatfor a second, because these are
leadership habits that canmanage the pace of your change.
Brady just talked about itwithout saying it this way
Remember, the first one wasexplain expectations.
So we got to be clear on whythe change is happening and how
(17:49):
it can align with what Adammentioned the long term goal.
Because if it doesn't fit inthe long-term goal, you might
have a couple sub points underthere to help you get to the
long-term goal.
But why are we making thischange but it's not aligning to
the long-term goal, to thestrategic target, to that point,
very, very important toremember.
(18:09):
Next, ask questions.
Remember, like Brady just said,the team said you know well,
you're giving us this next bookor this next highlight or
whatever.
We've never, we haven'tcompleted the one you just talk
about.
So keep your team involvedbecause let them be an open
forum to provide that positivefeedback before we decide to
roll out the new changes.
(18:30):
Before we decide to roll outthe new changes and, like Adam
mentioned a few minutes ago, youknow you're always going to
have those quarter to quarterthings you might accomplish that
task and you're like, you knowwhat.
I've accomplished that one, butnow I need to have a new task
that helps me get to thestrategic goal, get to the long
term goal.
So use them.
Use them for that.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So you can develop a system for that.
I mean, that's something, brady, that you're doing.
Go ahead, you can develop asystem for that.
I mean that's something, brady,that you're doing Right now.
You're going through.
You created something calledCoffee with a CEO.
Gives you a chance to say, heyguys, this is an open forum.
You know, nobody other than thepeople in this room know what
we're talking about.
I want you to share with mewhat is working, what is not
(19:11):
working.
Okay, you say it's not working,but you need to provide an
example why you know, you can'tjust say, oh, you know, we don't
have system and processes.
Well, that seems very broad.
We need to narrow that downright, like you're.
Like when you say that, whatdoes that mean?
So I think, giving someone todo that, involving the team and
asking them those questions andhaving them be specific.
We talked about that yesterdaybecause we did exactly that.
(19:31):
We put issues on the board andour pastor was like, hey, okay,
great, these are great examples.
We got communication, we gotthis, we got that.
Communication's like this.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
It's huge.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's a broad spectrum .
Do you mean, like, with ourchurch members?
Do you mean with our staff, ourserve team or our dream team
Sorry, that's what we call oursDo you mean just students, like
what does that mean?
So I think something where yousit down and start asking those
questions like, all right, great, you think there's an issue,
let's narrow that down andfigure these things out.
(20:06):
So now we can say, all right,this is your input, and then
they're seeing if there ischange involved.
They're seeing change.
What I feel like is from whatthe suggestion came.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, and I think that's a great point because you
know us being a large, alarge-ish organization one of
the things that we have, we havea communication gap and really
it's a.
It's a cascading communicationgap, so what?
So one thing that the Coffeewith the CEO does is we may put
a change in at the top and say,okay, leaders, go implement this
(20:40):
change all throughout theorganization and then people get
frustrated because it's likewhen you're in grade school and
you do the whole gossip game upgame, you know the person that
that was told first and then bythe time it makes it through 20
people, the, the, the uh, thecontent is different.
Well, when I get to sit downwith everybody, then you start
to hear some of these concernshey, what's not working?
(21:02):
And I said, well, let me takeyou back to the why we decided
to do that.
And it's been amazing to saythey said, man, if I would have
heard it like that then I wouldhave got on board with it.
So those are some growing painsthat we're going through in our
organization is even changesthat we made back in January.
(21:25):
We're not changing somethingelse up, but changes that we've
made haven't really cascadedwith clarity down to the people
that really need to understandwhat that is.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, and I know, I know hope's not a good strategy.
It is not a good strategy, it'snot.
But what I want to do isprovide hope, like, look, we
have a.
Our team is nowhere near thesize of the team that you guys
have.
We're 10 to 15, and we stillexperience that.
Oh yeah, and you that, and youwould think, well, I mean,
that's 10 to 15 people, weshould easily be able to have
that communication.
But that's where I was sayinglike we've got to get out of the
(21:59):
mom and pop mindset, like I'mjust going to walk in Adam's
office and say, hey, man, I needthis video, can you knock it
out?
And I want to say, well, yes,but we consider ourselves small
but mighty right, like we're.
I mean, we have a very largeamount of people on campus on
Sundays and it's a lot ofpressure, and so there's
pressure from all differentministries in the church.
(22:22):
That needs to get done.
So we need to find theseprojects, because we don't want
to just be good at theseprojects, we want to be
excellent.
We want to set the standard.
We've talked about that.
Like, hey, we as a creativeteam want to be excellent.
We want to set the standard.
We've talked about that.
Like, hey, we as a creativeteam want to be the standard.
We feel like we spend our timelooking at whatever churches are
doing, looking at the biggerchurches, your elevations, your
Church of the Highlands, yourLife Church.
We want to get to where wedon't do that anymore.
(22:45):
We want to have our process.
I mean, yes, you're going tolook at that for encouragement,
you're going to look at that forfor ideas, but we want to be
able to, to be the standard anddo those things and and and.
That's something that weexperience, even as a small team
, the same thing that you guysare experiencing on a larger
scale.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah it's, and you guys have mentioned it, you,
we involve the team, get theirownership in the change, how
it's going to be implemented,because, again, remember, not
too much and measuring theresults.
I wanted to kind of park here asecond because we've been
talking about something in ourleadership teams that I think
could help other leadershipteams.
You know whether, trackingwhether each change is actually
(23:25):
delivering the value there's abig difference between KPI and
KPM and I thought it'd be goodfor Brady to kind of share that,
because people don't understand.
You've got a metrics but youhave an indicator.
So, Brady, touch on that just asecond.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Yeah, I think what we've realized here recently is
that we have a lot of KPMs, wehave a lot of data, but what are
the indicators that are leadingus to making the right decision
?
So I think we've talked aboutthis a little bit before, but
KPIs and KPMs are not the samething.
A KPI is a key performanceindicator and a KPM is a key
(24:03):
performance metric.
So the way that you look at itis a KPI is the windshield and
the KPM is a rearview mirror.
So you've got to look at both.
You've got to see where you'vecome from, where you've been,
what you've been through, uh,all those types of things.
But what are the like, thewindshield and the dash?
So, like, if the and it couldbe different.
(24:23):
It's different for everyorganization.
It's different for everydepartment.
You know.
The analogy I like to use is thethree of us drive a different
vehicle.
Okay, so if, if we are drivingdown the road and our gas light
comes on, all right, well, foreach one of us, that means
something different.
For Adam, it may be.
(24:43):
I got to pull over now becauseif I don't, then I'm going to
run out of gas.
You know, for me it could be.
You know I got 60 miles left.
I can make it to home and churchand back and do that twice or
whatever the case may be, butit's an indicator, silly example
, but an indicator of somethingthat you need to take action on
(25:04):
now, and so think about that inyour business.
And these indicators are if.
I guess the thing about it isif you, if you get the
indicators right and you act onthe indicators, everything else
takes care of itself.
Yeah, you know, you'll be ableto look at your metrics and say,
oh, wow, you know what?
Yeah, we, we had good revenues,we had good profits, we had
(25:25):
good whatever the case may be,but we paid attention to the
indicators, we made decisions onthose indicators that we needed
to make in the moment.
Right and not, it's more of apractice of being proactive
versus reactive.
You know, being proactive andmaking those adjustments as you
go.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
So, yeah, yeah, I would always rather just I don't
want to react to everything,because then I feel like I'm not
, I'm not ready for it, I'm notplanned.
I want to be proactive and knowhow much is it going to cost me
.
What do I need to have, whatshould I do?
What, where should I go?
How should I plan?
Like I always want to make surethat I'm proactive, that not
reacting to a situation.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, always trying to be proactive, not reactive.
So, and then, last but notleast, just appreciate people
recognize their efforts.
So one to talk through as wewrap this episode up.
You know a couple of leadershiptakeaways that you might could
take home with you, pass alongto your team.
Uh, again, we're on YouTube soyou can actually watch this with
your team.
It's a great, great tool, butum, anchor and vision, keeping
(26:29):
the North star consistent sothat your team has something to
hold on to during thetransitions.
Again, there there are going towhen it's changed too much, it's
all up to the business, it'sall up to the leader.
You have to be able to figureout what that looks like and
pace it accordingly, because ifyou try it again, as we've been
talking, make too much change.
I love the analogy Brady usedas a virtual chiropractor.
(26:51):
You know they sometimes they'rejust they're, they're on their
heads on a swivel and they'relike man.
Which way do I go?
So make sure that you youintroduce these shifts in
manageable waves rather thanjust all at one time, because it
can really cause issues.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, and just to kind of dive back to what you're
saying, Brady, I love thatbecause I go to a chiropractor.
That's not your typical right,like most people see it on
social media.
I think you go in and theycrack you up and down, right, I
think I go to the same one we do.
I go to the same one we do, wego.
It's a very different process.
It is very different, but I'min there.
What Five minutes, maybe 10minutes If I'm, if I'm chatty
(27:30):
with with, with the doctor thatI, that I use.
But I even said something toEmily.
I can't tell if it's working,is it?
Do I feel it?
Is it working?
Do you hear it?
Do you hear it?
You do, you do?
It's probably working.
But I just have my yearly, sowe're going through the email.
And I told my doctor and I lovehim, he's great, he's a super
(27:50):
nice guy, I love him and I saidI told him, dr Marty, I mean,
it's not.
You know we're paying thismonthly, we're doing it.
Do I need to keep doing?
And he made a point and I don'tfeel like he's doing it just to
keep me there as a patient.
He said, adam, you have tothink You're maintaining?
Have you had another injurylike you had a year ago and I
threw my back out, putting mypants on?
(28:12):
Y'all?
Like literally put my pants on.
I mean, remember me walkingaround that office?
How old are you again?
I'm 41.
It was the day before.
Yeah, but y'all remember likeit was bad, but he's not wrong.
And my point is I go in andwhen I tell you it's minor, like
(28:37):
it's, I go in every two weeksmaybe, and he makes an
adjustment on my neck and hetalks to me about how I'm
feeling and I'll tell him like,hey, my shoulders bother me, I
know that you know this.
Hey, I'm feeling it, and whereI threw my back out, you know.
And he'll make a couple minoradjustments, but I still I
haven't done it again and I feelhealthy with it.
So I mean, you may not realizethose small minute changes.
You're not making ton, you'renot making big ones.
(28:58):
They may not seem apparentright now, but I feel like over
time you're going to notice, hey, this is working.
This is injury prevention.
I haven't I've been able to goin and deadlift heavyweight
again or I've been able to pickup my kids or something like
that.
So you talked about that sofrequently, barry.
It made me think more.
I mean, that's what I'm justthinking, is it working?
(29:19):
More, I mean these, that's whatI'm just thinking Like, is it
working?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yes, it is.
I can't tell the moment, so soI would, I would.
I would change one thing aboutthat.
Okay, no pun intended, changeone thing about that.
What they're doing is notchanging anything.
What they're doing is adjusting.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yes, okay.
So they're, they're makingadjustments, cause I go to the
same doctors PrecisionChiropractic shout out to them
and Pellum, you know, butthey're phenomenal, and they
don't put you on the table and,like you know, crack everything
that you got in your body.
They have a little machine thatsays, oh, you got a little
inflammation there, do we needto adjust that area?
And then, oh, that area.
(29:57):
And so they're using it as akey performance indicator to say
, hey, that needs a littleadjustment, adjustment,
adjustment.
And what I like in that too isand this is something we've been
telling our team here recentlyis I think we as human beings
work best when we are in rhythm.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So think about a song that youlisten to or somebody.
(30:20):
Maybe I was going to say at yourchurch and something wasn't in
rhythm, but I mean, I guess thatcould happen.
But when something's off rhythm, then you know that it's off.
It just feels weird, right?
And so the reason you go to thechiropractor and make those
adjustments is because you'reputting your body in rhythm and
you may not necessarily noticethat there's anything going on.
(30:42):
It's actually an indicator thatyou're healthy because there is
nothing going on.
And so what we've beenencouraging our team is,
whatever our goals, ourstrategic objectives, all those
different things that we've setout for our team, we've got to
beat the drum and we've got tostay in rhythm and keep
communicating and keep sayingthe same things and making sure
(31:05):
that we're cascading it down toour employees and doing it the
same way every single time.
And we've talked about this onthe show before, but every
leader that's out there is thechief reminding officer.
You should be a broken record.
You should get some proverbialeye rolls when you keep saying
(31:25):
the same things over and overand over again, because that's
when you know that people havegot it and it's sunk in is
because it's like oh, there goesAdam again.
You know he's talking about the.
You know whatever the case maybe, but you know that it's
making root.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, and you just said it, brady.
Communicate, often Repeat thewhy behind the change until it's
clear and connected to the bigpicture.
Beat the drum.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You know that's so good.
We talked about yesterday aboutserving people serving, and
culturally, we're at a placewhere everyone's busy.
I mean, I feel like cultureteaches us if you're not busy,
you're doing something wrong,like, and so finding people to
be all part of the serve teamcan can be tough, and one of the
things we talked about was weneed to do a better job in
(32:12):
teaching why a life ofservanthood is important and and
that and and that's somethingand we felt like we do, but we
need to be better at it, likeexplaining that, like, hey, why?
Why is it important to dothings for others and not expect
anything in return?
(32:32):
Why is it good to do that?
So I, to me, that's just soimportant with anything that
you're doing, because if theyunderstand the why, they're
going to keep doing it andthey'll want to do it more too.
Want to do it more.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I mean, I'll state the obvious.
You know, captain, obvious, butJesus said I came to serve, not
to be served.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, that's exactly right, A hundred percent.
So, yeah, and think about this.
Remember not all change isworth making, but guard the
values and behaviors that canmake your business stronger.
And I want to hone in on thisas we wrap up, but let's recap
this, the main point todayChange is healthy when it drives
growth, but harmful when iterodes trust, focus and
(33:11):
stability.
Okay, Reflect back on this,listeners, Reflect on this.
Am I leading my team?
Now, this doesn't mean you haveto be a business owner.
For any listeners out there, itcould be someone in leadership
management, Maybe you're on theground supervisor, whatever that
may be.
It could be just the role thatyou play on whatever team you're
on.
Am I helping lead my teamthrough intentional change or
(33:36):
accidental chaos?
When I found this, it hit homewith me.
Am I leading my team throughintentional change or accidental
chaos?
Keep the North Star the NorthStar moving in the right
direction.
If it doesn't drive back to themain goal, why are we doing it?
(33:57):
Listeners, we want to just thankyou all for tuning in today.
We want your feedback.
If there's something, a storythat you have out there, that
you've navigated through changeand we would love to share it on
the show or be able to you knowhelp.
Just give you some pointers.
Reach out to us at higher uppodcast on any of our social
platforms.
Online the higher up podcastcom.
Thank you guys so much fortuning in, as always, go out
(34:20):
there and choose to live ahigher up life.
See you next time.
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