September 29, 2025 • 23 mins
What happens when a brand forgets who it is?
This is Part One of our two-part series on branding and rebranding. In this episode, we break down the Cracker Barrel rebrand and the costly lessons it offers for business owners. Cracker Barrel built its reputation on consistency, nostalgia, and Southern hospitality, but its dramatic shift left loyal customers feeling disconnected.
We unpack the difference between branding (who you are) and marketing (how you tell your story), and why confusing the two erodes trust. With Donald Miller’s principle, “If you confuse, you lose”, we highlight what went wrong and contrast it with Apple’s ability to evolve while staying true to its identity.
If you’re considering a rebrand, this episode explains why evolution beats revolution and how to adapt without losing the emotional connection your audience values most.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
all right, benji brady, welcome in.
We are here for episode 34.
We're in episode 8 of season 3.
Throw numbers at you left andright love, love it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Good stuff, man.
Three plus four, four does notequal eight, but that's okay.
Who's?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
counting yeah, seven.
Well, six, seven, Six seven.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You both know how good I am with math, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Adam hates six, seven .
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Sean, not to embarrass me before we started
this, I better make a clip.
It will have to.
We'll see if it blows up for it.
Well, I'm excited becausetoday's episode is one that I
put together for us.
Come on.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I know I'm excited.
You guys normally bring thetopics to the table as owners.
You share that.
And I sent something to youguys.
I said, hey, can we do oneabout this?
And it's going to be called uhknow your audience.
Okay, that was kind of mythought process behind it.
Um, obviously, you know we'rewe might be a little bit behind
it's.
There's a lot more going on inthe world since then, but we're
(01:17):
going to talk a little bit aboutuh, cracker Barrel as a case
study.
Now, my whole point when Ibrought this to you guys was not
really to crack down on them orcriticize, but really to learn
from the things that they'vedone.
And most of you listeningprobably have seen it.
I don't know how you've missedit.
If you didn't, you were under arock.
Whether you're on social mediaor not, it was on the news, it
(01:39):
was everywhere.
It was on the news, it waseverywhere.
But Cracker Barrel recentlymade a major branding change
Major, and not just their brand,like their logo, their look.
They really changed everything.
They changed their uniforms,they changed the inside of their
(02:00):
stores, they changed theirprocess, they changed I mean
even to the rocking chairs outfront.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean they changed everything yeah, I'll take away
the rocking chairs I know thebest rocking chairs in the world
, by the way, yeah look when hey, you know it was, it was the
one time when you got you wentout to eat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
you're okay with like , hey, we got a 30 minute wait.
You're like you know what?
I'm good, I'm gonna go sit onthe front porch play a little
checkers.
Oh, you're rocking chair.
I'm good to go, so, but, um, sothey made a change, they made a
rebrand and I I kind of as me,as somebody, you know, I do
branding um for you guys, I dobranding myself.
I'm a branding guy.
I love it.
Um, you know, I would like tosay that I feel like rebranding
(02:39):
sometimes is necessary.
Yeah, it's something you haveto we're.
We went through it, um, andmaybe I'm the issue, but, benji,
when we were at CCW, we madesome changes that need to be.
We really updated our logo.
We tried to figure out how dowe honor the past while looking
forward to the future.
So that was a big thing.
We updated those.
(02:59):
We're actually going throughthat now at the church I'm at.
They haven't really ever had abig change and really have never
had branding that fits theculture of who they are.
Even ServPro, over the pastcouple of years, has seen some
branding change and again, it'salways faced with I don't want
to say backlash, but people havetrouble with change.
(03:22):
Even when ServPro changed theirbranding and it was a very
minimal change, but, yeah, minorI remember people like why are
we doing this?
And because it needs to be, andso what I want to do today is
kind of dive into that.
Potentially a two parter yeah,we talked about that before.
I think this is becoming our MO.
We're having a big pop.
(03:44):
I think that was my fault, butyou know what it's good?
It's all good.
It gives us time to really diveinto these conversations.
So I want to talk today alittle bit about that branding
and I want to share some thingswith you guys.
I shared with you guys before acouple of the references that I
talked about.
One of my favorite books is byDonald Miller.
It's called Building a StoryBrand and it really for somebody
(04:06):
in my position, even as acontent creator, videographer,
you know it teaches you how doyou build a brand for your
customer.
And then I took some of thestuff that you guys love
obviously James Clear withAtomic Habits and some Patrick
Lencioni.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Love me some, patrick .
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Just for you, brady.
I appreciate it.
So, but what I want to do islet's dive in a little bit.
So I wanted to ask you guys,let's look at Cracker Barrel,
let's dive into that.
Um, you know, all of us we'veeaten at Cracker Barrel, we love
it, our listeners.
Um, if you are listening fromsomewhere and you're like, what
is a Cracker Barrel Like, if wedon't have it, look, it's an old
(04:46):
time country store and theyhave rocking chairs out front,
they have a.
They have a store inside that'sgot just trinket, candy, all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I love the decade of uh of uh snacks.
You know little, let's callthem candies.
They have from the differentdecades.
Man, you can go get a box ofthose nostalgic candy.
I'll say this, like you know,most people may not realize but
Cracker Barrel was started in1969 in Lebanon, tennessee, and,
to your point, it was designedat the country store.
(05:13):
Feel that it was.
It was designed to be alongmajor highways and or
interstates for people that aretraveling.
That could see consistency.
Hey, I want it.
I need to go eat at CrackerBarrel right Breakfast, lunch,
dinner, whatever, um, but theyserve.
They really wanted to servepeople.
To have a gathering place forcommunity, similar to modern day
.
The water cooler, think about.
(05:34):
Everybody goes around the watercooler when it's hot and they
get out a bottle of water orwhatever.
Uh, so that that's.
It was Southern comfort foodwith a hospital, hospitable
atmospheres.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That was that was their original design of cracker
barrel, which still lives today.
Yeah it, well, it was.
Instead of made the change alittle bit, but yeah, so you're
100 right, it's consistent.
You know they had out out back,remember they had places for
your rvs.
Yeah, you know, I meanliterally parking spaces for rvs
, for 18 wheelers.
Um, I mean all kinds of things.
(06:02):
You're right, benji.
They really wanted to say youknow, how do we?
How do we make it so anybodycan come here?
And so it was a come hang outfor a bit.
Come hang out, have family time.
Look, I remember havingbreakfast with my family there,
eating there, or even evening.
I mean, you can get breakfastanytime of the night I love some
breakfast.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Love some breakfast.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
That's my favorite meal of the day breakfast, oh
yeah, before we jump into it,favorite thing to get at cracker
barrel what do?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
you guys.
Oh man, I'll tell you what itused to be.
I don't that'll do it anymorebecause it's about 3 000
calories, but the country friedsteak with gravy on top.
That thing was about.
I mean, that thing was huge,that was gonna be mine right
there.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Country front steak For me.
I'm kind of torn, because ifI'm going to Cracker Barrel, I
like breakfast so much I'm goingto get their pancakes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I'm going to get the pancakes, but if for some reason
I'm not in a breakfast mood,I'm going meatloaf.
Oh okay, I love some meatloaf.
That's my last meal.
Now my wife makes some reallygoing meatloaf.
Oh okay, I love some meatloaf.
That's my last meal.
Now my wife makes some reallygood meatloaf.
That will be my last meal.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I will say today, Adam, it's chicken and dumplings
for me at Cracker BarrelFantastic chicken and dumplings.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I will say total side note nothing to do with this.
Brady, if you love the pancakesand you don't want to go eat
there, you can get a box fromWalmart Tastes just like it, I
kid you not.
I kid you not, they sellCracker Barrel Pancake.
Oh, wow, it's right on point.
But here's what I thought Ourcase study.
I mentioned that I thinkbranding needs to evolve, as me,
(07:38):
as somebody that does it, Ibelieve that I think things grow
, things change.
They need to get what we call arefreshed look right, like you
need to have those.
Everything has seen it.
Think about it.
Pepsi has done it, coke hasdone it, gatorade has done it,
jordan brand has done it, nikehas done it.
Take all these most top 10recognizable brands and they
(08:02):
make these updates to theirbranding, they clean it up and
they go good.
Now they don't.
I don't feel like they've everchanged who they are and change
these, but they've made theseevolving things.
And I think, where CrackerBarrel went wrong and even our
listeners now you as an owner,whether you own your own
business, you own a franchiseyou have to think about that
(08:23):
branding Like, look at CrackerBarrel.
When they did this, I feel likethey abandoned what they loved.
They did that because you know,and I and I said this to you
guys before when we were talkingI personally didn't think the
logo change looked bad.
I thought it looked clean and Iunderstand people were like,
and you know, it took away thelook and all this, but I felt
like it looked clean.
(08:44):
It was updated.
Where I felt like they abandonedis they changed the inside.
They changed the core of whothey are, and one of the things
that I read in Donald Miller'sbook the story branding is where
do I fit into this story right,where does this and when you
say that you ask that becausethat's what a customer asks
(09:06):
where do they, as your customer,fit in to your story?
That's something we've talkedabout, even with Servpro.
Where do our customers fit intoour branding?
So, before we kind of dive in,I want you guys give me a little
bit of what you feel like inthat.
Where do you feel like ourbranding unless you serve pro?
Where do you feel like ourbranding is something that's
(09:27):
important to our customers?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, I mean, let's go back to what Benji talked
about the inception of CrackerBarrel, and you talked about the
change of the logo, Adam.
Yeah, I mean, maybe the logodid look a little cleaner, right
, but the main thing that theytook off of it was Old Country
Store off the new one.
So you've got this audience ofpeople that connecting to you
(09:54):
know, uh, remembrance of aneasier life or easier lifetime,
you know, sit on the front porchno phone, rocking chair, no
phones, drink a cup of coffee,have conversation, uh, play
checker or checkers, Um, so,yeah, when that connecting to it
, those are the people theyconnected to.
(10:15):
So, for for us, you know, we,we, we serve people.
I mean our, excuse me, we servepeople on a day-to-day basis,
helping them in a, in a time ofof need.
So if that ever changed, thenthat would be detrimental to who
we are as an organization.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, and I would add to that, I think, of the
branding itself.
Just, I'm not near as deep intoit as you are, Adam, but if you
, if you look at the old time,the way they used to do um story
like cartoons, they started onone page and they had, you know,
a man, and the next page hadsomething added and a stick
figure and whatever.
And as you flip through thatbook I look at the brand and go
(11:00):
okay, back in 19, you know 67,when ServPro started, the logo
looked like this.
But as we flipped through thebook it really didn't.
It really didn't evolve muchdifferent.
Brady remembers the day when wehad Sammy ServPro, the little
wand, you know, magic is whatthey thought.
It was the magic wand on thelogo where they kind of evolved
away from that.
And then they got into this,what you mentioned earlier.
(11:22):
They just they blew the lettersup bigger, moved the restricted
trademark symbol down low andthey still fit in this category
of we'll call it a housetop, butit represents a building now,
not a housetop.
So, to your point, it didn'treally change, it just kind of
evolved into something moremodern.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, and and and, honestly, branding isn't just.
People hear branding and Ithink they think colors and logo
, like they hear they werebranding.
And it's funny because, if youthink about that, serpro is
known for the green machine,right, like the green trucks, um
, and then you guys correct meif I'm wrong, but I believe the
whole point, the whole reasonthat Serpro is the color green.
Wasn't the Isakson the firstcar he had, wasn't he?
(12:05):
He didn't have a Porsche orsomething that was green.
No, it was a Beetlebug.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Beetlebug that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Like the Herbie car back in the day.
Uh, like Pantone colors, or Imay not be saying the right
terminology, but what was themost recognized or or or color
that stood out the most, and itwas the color of that vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, and so that's why it.
But now it's the significanceof it.
Like people see the greentrucks and you know they they're
, they're known for those typesof things.
But you know you're talkingabout emotional, especially in
the business that we're in.
You know branding really tiesto that.
Like ServPro has an emotionalconnection to a customer right.
(12:49):
Like think about what customersdeal with, and we say that a
lot of these people, unlessyou're me, will deal with this
once or twice in their life.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Aren't you at four or five now?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
We're at four or five .
Like I told you, guys, I wasworried because we got guys
coming today to fix the repairthat we're finally almost done
with.
But you know there's anemotional connection to CERPRO
with that, and so what I feellike there needs to be done on
that, or learn from these things, is where does that come from,
(13:20):
what does that do and how doesthat change your story?
Um, because if you change toodrastically, it'll it'll change
that and it'll affect it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, and sometimes you know to your point if, if
you don't, if you don't makethat emotional connection, you
got to keep that.
I'll call it history, let'scall it Um.
You got to keep thatsentimental value you know to
your brand and and ultimatelyit'll, it'll continue to morph
into better, bigger and betterthings.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But yeah, basically, look, if your story isn't clear
in shift to drastically, peopleare going to disagree, and I
think it's going to end uphurting your brand in the long
run.
So, um, something, brady, I putin here that I want to talk
about.
We've talked a lot about thisover the past few years, as
we've really changed businessdevelopment and marketing.
It used to be under oneumbrella, just marketing
(14:09):
everything, and so one of thethings that I looked at is I
believe there's a differencebetween branding and marketing.
For me, this is what I feellike.
Branding is who you are, like,branding is who you are.
Okay, branding is who you areyour identity, your culture,
your values.
Marketing, though, that's howyou tell your story, that's how
you share who you are, and thatcould be how you communicate you
(14:33):
, who you are, through yourplatforms, whether that's social
media, linkedin, email tocustomers website.
You know campaigns that you runthrough your platforms, whether
that's social media, linkedin,email to customers website.
You know campaigns that you runthrough your ads.
This can have all these type ofthings in it, but here's the
thing If you can have the bestmarketing in the world, your
marketing can look great, it canbe strong, it can be pretty,
(14:54):
but if your brand, if yourfoundation is shaky, it's not
going to have what you need.
It's not going to have thatfoundation, because that
branding is who you are.
So you have your marketing thattells your story.
But if you're branding, if theydon't work together, they're
falling apart.
And that's one of the things Ifelt like with Cracker Barrel,
where they were messing thingsup and with their customers,
(15:14):
creating that disconnection andsomething that our listeners
think through, like how are youconnecting with your customers?
Your social media can lookgreat, your photos can look
great, everything but if yourbrand doesn't share who you are,
you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'll say this, Adam, that is spot on, because
marketing you use the I lovethat you mentioned the word
platform because you use theplatform that you've been given.
That's the marketing approach.
Okay, but to your point, if thebranding, if we have the best
brand in our industry Servpro weknow that it's the best brand
(15:48):
in our industry, but we have togo market it, to use the
platform that we've been givento support this massive, awesome
brand, and then you add theteam Wilson value to it.
Man, it just speaks volume.
So, use the platform.
That's the marketing piece.
Use the marketing piece toshare your brand.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You know, and Donald Miller says this in one of his,
in his book the story ofbranding if you confuse, you
lose.
I like that.
So think about it.
If your customers are confusedand we've seen this, we I mean
(16:32):
take, for instance, we were.
I like that.
You know, just a not not aterrible review, but not a great
review, but the you if youconfuse your customer, then
they're going to feel lost inyour story, with who they are,
and I feel like walking intoCracker Barrel.
You're really confused.
You're like what?
What is this?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah Well maybe it goes to something do as an
organization.
Do we really know our customer?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
You know, because if we really, because if we really
knew our customer, then would wemake the change.
You know, because sometimes ourcustomers come to us and they
are begging for tweaking orchanging or not even changing
but like iteration, right, butif the customer is not saying
(17:20):
hey, what you guys are doing, solike in Cracker Barrel's case,
the customer didn't say I don'tthink, of course, I don't know,
they didn't ask my opinion, theyshould ask somebody.
They should ask somebody.
But the customer didn't say hey, you guys have been doing this
for 50 years and we don't likethis anymore.
Can you change it?
Can you update it?
We need a refresh.
(17:40):
You know we need all this.
I don't think the customer saidthat, but somebody.
This is.
I think this is a goodleadership, uh, uh perspective.
Somebody in leadership said weneed to change that.
And just because maybe it wasyou know, we've talked about
this on the show before, butmaybe it was some of that shiny
object syndrome yeah I think itwas just a change.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I think it would have been really weird, honestly,
that just I mean, think aboutthis.
We, we all.
As we were younger, we went tocracker barrel with our parents,
our grandparents or whatever.
And then we got, we've gottenolder and guess what we do?
We take our kids to crackerbarrel, so it can be a constant
history thing.
I think it would have beenreally weird to walk into a and
again.
It doesn't change my opinion onCracker Barrel.
(18:21):
I was at Cracker Barrel a weekago but I think it'd been really
weird to go from that oldcountry store you guys mentioned
to that modern look.
It looks like a hotel, yeah,100%.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
To me it looks like the inside of a hotel.
I can see that the new look.
And here's you're talking about.
You're talking about somebodyin leadership, brady, and so I
think that's a great point.
And I want to be, obviously, Iwant to be very careful with how
I say this.
I don't want anybody to take itthe wrong way, but the
individual, their chief ofmarketing, that they put in
place, did not have a backgroundin old country living.
(18:55):
And I say that because, look,things that work in the South
may not work in the North, andthings that work in the North
may not work in the South.
Or take, for instance, whatworks on the West Coast doesn't
work on the East Coast, andthat's fine because there's
culture identified with thatbrand.
And I think that's somethingwe've talked about, this even in
our own marketing, that we'relooking right now.
(19:17):
Well, hey, like, for instance,we're looking at the digital
side of things.
Hey, marketing in Birmingham,everybody in Birmingham
considers himself part ofBirmingham.
Yeah, I think you from the edgeof our territory to the top of
our territory.
But you look at, like, ourTexas markets, each city that we
have in our territory is thesize of Birmingham.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So they don't say hey , I'm from you know, they don't
typically say hey, I'm fromDallas.
They don't say I'm from Friscoor from Salina or from here.
It's different mentalities anddifferent cultures.
Different places workdifferently.
Yeah, got to be clear about it.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love that you got to be clear.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And here's an example .
I know we're all Apple guys,benji, especially you, I know
you're an Apple guy.
Let's think about this.
Here's a clear example that Iwanted to put together about
marketing and branding.
Okay, apple, tomorrow theycould change their marketing end
over in a 180, completelydifferent.
But because of their brandingand those things they're branded
(20:18):
to be innovative, to becreative, to be, hey, we're the
first ones to design this amonganybody else.
So, because they completelychanged their marketing, their
branding fits, because theirbranding says, hey, we're going
to do this, we're going to dosomething that nobody else ever
has done.
I saw a video the other day howum tim cook was.
(20:39):
They called him the blackberrykiller because he talked about
and he did a statement, truestatement when the app, when the
iphone first came out.
He used this as an example, andnot to be, but to make a point
hey, when you buy a blackberry,you can't evolve, you can change
.
Those buttons are on your phoneforever, like, there's no
(21:02):
changing that.
So how do we create a productthat looks different and can be
different?
The iPhone is a screen.
All we have to do is updatesoftware looks.
I mean, look at it right now,at the time of right now.
This past week they havereleased the new iOS 26.
Yep, completely different.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, yeah, I'll tell you too, to your point.
I love that you used Applebecause, man, I remember when
Steve Jobs got up and said hey,we're going to put this device
in the palm of your hand.
Oh, and, by the way, it's alsoan MP3 player, it's also a phone
.
It also can do your email.
It also can do email.
It also can do he was paintinga picture for the future.
(21:43):
And now, if you look at it,every year in the month of
September they do a.
They used to do it live inperson.
And then, obviously, when COVIDhit in 2020, 2021, they started
going to virtual.
And, brady, I'm sure, like you,I watch it.
I don't watch it live.
And, brady, I'm sure, like you,I watch it.
I don't watch it live, but Iwatch it the evening of just to
see what happened.
And that brand new what is it?
(22:03):
The iPhone Air they have now islike it's so thin I don't know
how they even put the computerchip in it.
That thing is thin.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
So it's, it's Well and I mean I think too to the
point with Apple as well is andAdam, I don't know if you've
thought about this, but Applehas the capability of making
some tweaks, making some changes, even making some larger
changes, because they have somuch their audience, their
(22:34):
followers, their consumers haveso much trust in the brand, in
the organization, that if theymake a change, they're like you
know what their customer mightsay.
I'm willing to give that a shotbecause I trust them.
You know, as opposed to CrackerBarrel and I don't know, I'm
just speculating, but you knowit's a difference in saying, hey
(22:57):
, we're going to go from crispypancakes to major crispy
pancakes or add some pecans inthere, as opposed to let's just
change up the whole stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, you know too Cracker Barrel.
As Adam said, they tried tocommunicate a new story without
grounding it in their core brand.
Well, listeners, we just wantto tell you thank you so much
for tuning in today.
We're going to do a part two onthis because now that you've
heard the backstory of CrackerBarrel, we want to help walk you
through how you can know youraudience.
(23:28):
So stay tuned for next episode.
You can find us on any socialplatform.
At HigherUpPodcast, you cansubscribe at HigherUpPodcastcom.
Choose your favorite platform,whether it's Apple yes, that's
the way to go or Spotify, orYouTube, or whatever you'd like.
Appreciate you guys all tuningin.
As always, choose to live ahigher up life.
We'll see you next time.
all right, benji brady, welcome in.
We are here for episode 34.
We're in episode 8 of season 3.
Throw numbers at you left andright love, love it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Good stuff, man.
Three plus four, four does notequal eight, but that's okay.
Who's?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
counting yeah, seven.
Well, six, seven, Six seven.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You both know how good I am with math, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Adam hates six, seven .
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Sean, not to embarrass me before we started
this, I better make a clip.
It will have to.
We'll see if it blows up for it.
Well, I'm excited becausetoday's episode is one that I
put together for us.
Come on.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I know I'm excited.
You guys normally bring thetopics to the table as owners.
You share that.
And I sent something to youguys.
I said, hey, can we do oneabout this?
And it's going to be called uhknow your audience.
Okay, that was kind of mythought process behind it.
Um, obviously, you know we'rewe might be a little bit behind
it's.
There's a lot more going on inthe world since then, but we're
(01:17):
going to talk a little bit aboutuh, cracker Barrel as a case
study.
Now, my whole point when Ibrought this to you guys was not
really to crack down on them orcriticize, but really to learn
from the things that they'vedone.
And most of you listeningprobably have seen it.
I don't know how you've missedit.
If you didn't, you were under arock.
Whether you're on social mediaor not, it was on the news, it
(01:39):
was everywhere.
It was on the news, it waseverywhere.
But Cracker Barrel recentlymade a major branding change
Major, and not just their brand,like their logo, their look.
They really changed everything.
They changed their uniforms,they changed the inside of their
(02:00):
stores, they changed theirprocess, they changed I mean
even to the rocking chairs outfront.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I mean they changed everything yeah, I'll take away
the rocking chairs I know thebest rocking chairs in the world
, by the way, yeah look when hey, you know it was, it was the
one time when you got you wentout to eat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
you're okay with like , hey, we got a 30 minute wait.
You're like you know what?
I'm good, I'm gonna go sit onthe front porch play a little
checkers.
Oh, you're rocking chair.
I'm good to go, so, but, um, sothey made a change, they made a
rebrand and I I kind of as me,as somebody, you know, I do
branding um for you guys, I dobranding myself.
I'm a branding guy.
I love it.
Um, you know, I would like tosay that I feel like rebranding
(02:39):
sometimes is necessary.
Yeah, it's something you haveto we're.
We went through it, um, andmaybe I'm the issue, but, benji,
when we were at CCW, we madesome changes that need to be.
We really updated our logo.
We tried to figure out how dowe honor the past while looking
forward to the future.
So that was a big thing.
We updated those.
(02:59):
We're actually going throughthat now at the church I'm at.
They haven't really ever had abig change and really have never
had branding that fits theculture of who they are.
Even ServPro, over the pastcouple of years, has seen some
branding change and again, it'salways faced with I don't want
to say backlash, but people havetrouble with change.
(03:22):
Even when ServPro changed theirbranding and it was a very
minimal change, but, yeah, minorI remember people like why are
we doing this?
And because it needs to be, andso what I want to do today is
kind of dive into that.
Potentially a two parter yeah,we talked about that before.
I think this is becoming our MO.
We're having a big pop.
(03:44):
I think that was my fault, butyou know what it's good?
It's all good.
It gives us time to really diveinto these conversations.
So I want to talk today alittle bit about that branding
and I want to share some thingswith you guys.
I shared with you guys before acouple of the references that I
talked about.
One of my favorite books is byDonald Miller.
It's called Building a StoryBrand and it really for somebody
(04:06):
in my position, even as acontent creator, videographer,
you know it teaches you how doyou build a brand for your
customer.
And then I took some of thestuff that you guys love
obviously James Clear withAtomic Habits and some Patrick
Lencioni.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Love me some, patrick .
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Just for you, brady.
I appreciate it.
So, but what I want to do islet's dive in a little bit.
So I wanted to ask you guys,let's look at Cracker Barrel,
let's dive into that.
Um, you know, all of us we'veeaten at Cracker Barrel, we love
it, our listeners.
Um, if you are listening fromsomewhere and you're like, what
is a Cracker Barrel Like, if wedon't have it, look, it's an old
(04:46):
time country store and theyhave rocking chairs out front,
they have a.
They have a store inside that'sgot just trinket, candy, all
kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I love the decade of uh of uh snacks.
You know little, let's callthem candies.
They have from the differentdecades.
Man, you can go get a box ofthose nostalgic candy.
I'll say this, like you know,most people may not realize but
Cracker Barrel was started in1969 in Lebanon, tennessee, and,
to your point, it was designedat the country store.
(05:13):
Feel that it was.
It was designed to be alongmajor highways and or
interstates for people that aretraveling.
That could see consistency.
Hey, I want it.
I need to go eat at CrackerBarrel right Breakfast, lunch,
dinner, whatever, um, but theyserve.
They really wanted to servepeople.
To have a gathering place forcommunity, similar to modern day
.
The water cooler, think about.
(05:34):
Everybody goes around the watercooler when it's hot and they
get out a bottle of water orwhatever.
Uh, so that that's.
It was Southern comfort foodwith a hospital, hospitable
atmospheres.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That was that was their original design of cracker
barrel, which still lives today.
Yeah it, well, it was.
Instead of made the change alittle bit, but yeah, so you're
100 right, it's consistent.
You know they had out out back,remember they had places for
your rvs.
Yeah, you know, I meanliterally parking spaces for rvs
, for 18 wheelers.
Um, I mean all kinds of things.
(06:02):
You're right, benji.
They really wanted to say youknow, how do we?
How do we make it so anybodycan come here?
And so it was a come hang outfor a bit.
Come hang out, have family time.
Look, I remember havingbreakfast with my family there,
eating there, or even evening.
I mean, you can get breakfastanytime of the night I love some
breakfast.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Love some breakfast.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
That's my favorite meal of the day breakfast, oh
yeah, before we jump into it,favorite thing to get at cracker
barrel what do?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
you guys.
Oh man, I'll tell you what itused to be.
I don't that'll do it anymorebecause it's about 3 000
calories, but the country friedsteak with gravy on top.
That thing was about.
I mean, that thing was huge,that was gonna be mine right
there.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Country front steak For me.
I'm kind of torn, because ifI'm going to Cracker Barrel, I
like breakfast so much I'm goingto get their pancakes.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I'm going to get the pancakes, but if for some reason
I'm not in a breakfast mood,I'm going meatloaf.
Oh okay, I love some meatloaf.
That's my last meal.
Now my wife makes some reallygoing meatloaf.
Oh okay, I love some meatloaf.
That's my last meal.
Now my wife makes some reallygood meatloaf.
That will be my last meal.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I will say today, Adam, it's chicken and dumplings
for me at Cracker BarrelFantastic chicken and dumplings.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I will say total side note nothing to do with this.
Brady, if you love the pancakesand you don't want to go eat
there, you can get a box fromWalmart Tastes just like it, I
kid you not.
I kid you not, they sellCracker Barrel Pancake.
Oh, wow, it's right on point.
But here's what I thought Ourcase study.
I mentioned that I thinkbranding needs to evolve, as me,
(07:38):
as somebody that does it, Ibelieve that I think things grow
, things change.
They need to get what we call arefreshed look right, like you
need to have those.
Everything has seen it.
Think about it.
Pepsi has done it, coke hasdone it, gatorade has done it,
jordan brand has done it, nikehas done it.
Take all these most top 10recognizable brands and they
(08:02):
make these updates to theirbranding, they clean it up and
they go good.
Now they don't.
I don't feel like they've everchanged who they are and change
these, but they've made theseevolving things.
And I think, where CrackerBarrel went wrong and even our
listeners now you as an owner,whether you own your own
business, you own a franchiseyou have to think about that
(08:23):
branding Like, look at CrackerBarrel.
When they did this, I feel likethey abandoned what they loved.
They did that because you know,and I and I said this to you
guys before when we were talkingI personally didn't think the
logo change looked bad.
I thought it looked clean and Iunderstand people were like,
and you know, it took away thelook and all this, but I felt
like it looked clean.
(08:44):
It was updated.
Where I felt like they abandonedis they changed the inside.
They changed the core of whothey are, and one of the things
that I read in Donald Miller'sbook the story branding is where
do I fit into this story right,where does this and when you
say that you ask that becausethat's what a customer asks
(09:06):
where do they, as your customer,fit in to your story?
That's something we've talkedabout, even with Servpro.
Where do our customers fit intoour branding?
So, before we kind of dive in,I want you guys give me a little
bit of what you feel like inthat.
Where do you feel like ourbranding unless you serve pro?
Where do you feel like ourbranding is something that's
(09:27):
important to our customers?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, I mean, let's go back to what Benji talked
about the inception of CrackerBarrel, and you talked about the
change of the logo, Adam.
Yeah, I mean, maybe the logodid look a little cleaner, right
, but the main thing that theytook off of it was Old Country
Store off the new one.
So you've got this audience ofpeople that connecting to you
(09:54):
know, uh, remembrance of aneasier life or easier lifetime,
you know, sit on the front porchno phone, rocking chair, no
phones, drink a cup of coffee,have conversation, uh, play
checker or checkers, Um, so,yeah, when that connecting to it
, those are the people theyconnected to.
(10:15):
So, for for us, you know, we,we, we serve people.
I mean our, excuse me, we servepeople on a day-to-day basis,
helping them in a, in a time ofof need.
So if that ever changed, thenthat would be detrimental to who
we are as an organization.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, and I would add to that, I think, of the
branding itself.
Just, I'm not near as deep intoit as you are, Adam, but if you
, if you look at the old time,the way they used to do um story
like cartoons, they started onone page and they had, you know,
a man, and the next page hadsomething added and a stick
figure and whatever.
And as you flip through thatbook I look at the brand and go
(11:00):
okay, back in 19, you know 67,when ServPro started, the logo
looked like this.
But as we flipped through thebook it really didn't.
It really didn't evolve muchdifferent.
Brady remembers the day when wehad Sammy ServPro, the little
wand, you know, magic is whatthey thought.
It was the magic wand on thelogo where they kind of evolved
away from that.
And then they got into this,what you mentioned earlier.
(11:22):
They just they blew the lettersup bigger, moved the restricted
trademark symbol down low andthey still fit in this category
of we'll call it a housetop, butit represents a building now,
not a housetop.
So, to your point, it didn'treally change, it just kind of
evolved into something moremodern.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, and and and, honestly, branding isn't just.
People hear branding and Ithink they think colors and logo
, like they hear they werebranding.
And it's funny because, if youthink about that, serpro is
known for the green machine,right, like the green trucks, um
, and then you guys correct meif I'm wrong, but I believe the
whole point, the whole reasonthat Serpro is the color green.
Wasn't the Isakson the firstcar he had, wasn't he?
(12:05):
He didn't have a Porsche orsomething that was green.
No, it was a Beetlebug.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Beetlebug that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Like the Herbie car back in the day.
Uh, like Pantone colors, or Imay not be saying the right
terminology, but what was themost recognized or or or color
that stood out the most, and itwas the color of that vehicle.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yeah, and so that's why it.
But now it's the significanceof it.
Like people see the greentrucks and you know they they're
, they're known for those typesof things.
But you know you're talkingabout emotional, especially in
the business that we're in.
You know branding really tiesto that.
Like ServPro has an emotionalconnection to a customer right.
(12:49):
Like think about what customersdeal with, and we say that a
lot of these people, unlessyou're me, will deal with this
once or twice in their life.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Aren't you at four or five now?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
We're at four or five .
Like I told you, guys, I wasworried because we got guys
coming today to fix the repairthat we're finally almost done
with.
But you know there's anemotional connection to CERPRO
with that, and so what I feellike there needs to be done on
that, or learn from these things, is where does that come from,
(13:20):
what does that do and how doesthat change your story?
Um, because if you change toodrastically, it'll it'll change
that and it'll affect it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, and sometimes you know to your point if, if
you don't, if you don't makethat emotional connection, you
got to keep that.
I'll call it history, let'scall it Um.
You got to keep thatsentimental value you know to
your brand and and ultimatelyit'll, it'll continue to morph
into better, bigger and betterthings.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But yeah, basically, look, if your story isn't clear
in shift to drastically, peopleare going to disagree, and I
think it's going to end uphurting your brand in the long
run.
So, um, something, brady, I putin here that I want to talk
about.
We've talked a lot about thisover the past few years, as
we've really changed businessdevelopment and marketing.
It used to be under oneumbrella, just marketing
(14:09):
everything, and so one of thethings that I looked at is I
believe there's a differencebetween branding and marketing.
For me, this is what I feellike.
Branding is who you are, like,branding is who you are.
Okay, branding is who you areyour identity, your culture,
your values.
Marketing, though, that's howyou tell your story, that's how
you share who you are, and thatcould be how you communicate you
(14:33):
, who you are, through yourplatforms, whether that's social
media, linkedin, email tocustomers website.
You know campaigns that you runthrough your platforms, whether
that's social media, linkedin,email to customers website.
You know campaigns that you runthrough your ads.
This can have all these type ofthings in it, but here's the
thing If you can have the bestmarketing in the world, your
marketing can look great, it canbe strong, it can be pretty,
(14:54):
but if your brand, if yourfoundation is shaky, it's not
going to have what you need.
It's not going to have thatfoundation, because that
branding is who you are.
So you have your marketing thattells your story.
But if you're branding, if theydon't work together, they're
falling apart.
And that's one of the things Ifelt like with Cracker Barrel,
where they were messing thingsup and with their customers,
(15:14):
creating that disconnection andsomething that our listeners
think through, like how are youconnecting with your customers?
Your social media can lookgreat, your photos can look
great, everything but if yourbrand doesn't share who you are,
you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'll say this, Adam, that is spot on, because
marketing you use the I lovethat you mentioned the word
platform because you use theplatform that you've been given.
That's the marketing approach.
Okay, but to your point, if thebranding, if we have the best
brand in our industry Servpro weknow that it's the best brand
(15:48):
in our industry, but we have togo market it, to use the
platform that we've been givento support this massive, awesome
brand, and then you add theteam Wilson value to it.
Man, it just speaks volume.
So, use the platform.
That's the marketing piece.
Use the marketing piece toshare your brand.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
You know, and Donald Miller says this in one of his,
in his book the story ofbranding if you confuse, you
lose.
I like that.
So think about it.
If your customers are confusedand we've seen this, we I mean
(16:32):
take, for instance, we were.
I like that.
You know, just a not not aterrible review, but not a great
review, but the you if youconfuse your customer, then
they're going to feel lost inyour story, with who they are,
and I feel like walking intoCracker Barrel.
You're really confused.
You're like what?
What is this?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah Well maybe it goes to something do as an
organization.
Do we really know our customer?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
You know, because if we really, because if we really
knew our customer, then would wemake the change.
You know, because sometimes ourcustomers come to us and they
are begging for tweaking orchanging or not even changing
but like iteration, right, butif the customer is not saying
(17:20):
hey, what you guys are doing, solike in Cracker Barrel's case,
the customer didn't say I don'tthink, of course, I don't know,
they didn't ask my opinion, theyshould ask somebody.
They should ask somebody.
But the customer didn't say hey, you guys have been doing this
for 50 years and we don't likethis anymore.
Can you change it?
Can you update it?
We need a refresh.
(17:40):
You know we need all this.
I don't think the customer saidthat, but somebody.
This is.
I think this is a goodleadership, uh, uh perspective.
Somebody in leadership said weneed to change that.
And just because maybe it wasyou know, we've talked about
this on the show before, butmaybe it was some of that shiny
object syndrome yeah I think itwas just a change.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I think it would have been really weird, honestly,
that just I mean, think aboutthis.
We, we all.
As we were younger, we went tocracker barrel with our parents,
our grandparents or whatever.
And then we got, we've gottenolder and guess what we do?
We take our kids to crackerbarrel, so it can be a constant
history thing.
I think it would have beenreally weird to walk into a and
again.
It doesn't change my opinion onCracker Barrel.
(18:21):
I was at Cracker Barrel a weekago but I think it'd been really
weird to go from that oldcountry store you guys mentioned
to that modern look.
It looks like a hotel, yeah,100%.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
To me it looks like the inside of a hotel.
I can see that the new look.
And here's you're talking about.
You're talking about somebodyin leadership, brady, and so I
think that's a great point.
And I want to be, obviously, Iwant to be very careful with how
I say this.
I don't want anybody to take itthe wrong way, but the
individual, their chief ofmarketing, that they put in
place, did not have a backgroundin old country living.
(18:55):
And I say that because, look,things that work in the South
may not work in the North, andthings that work in the North
may not work in the South.
Or take, for instance, whatworks on the West Coast doesn't
work on the East Coast, andthat's fine because there's
culture identified with thatbrand.
And I think that's somethingwe've talked about, this even in
our own marketing, that we'relooking right now.
(19:17):
Well, hey, like, for instance,we're looking at the digital
side of things.
Hey, marketing in Birmingham,everybody in Birmingham
considers himself part ofBirmingham.
Yeah, I think you from the edgeof our territory to the top of
our territory.
But you look at, like, ourTexas markets, each city that we
have in our territory is thesize of Birmingham.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
So they don't say hey , I'm from you know, they don't
typically say hey, I'm fromDallas.
They don't say I'm from Friscoor from Salina or from here.
It's different mentalities anddifferent cultures.
Different places workdifferently.
Yeah, got to be clear about it.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love that you got to be clear.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
And here's an example .
I know we're all Apple guys,benji, especially you, I know
you're an Apple guy.
Let's think about this.
Here's a clear example that Iwanted to put together about
marketing and branding.
Okay, apple, tomorrow theycould change their marketing end
over in a 180, completelydifferent.
But because of their brandingand those things they're branded
(20:18):
to be innovative, to becreative, to be, hey, we're the
first ones to design this amonganybody else.
So, because they completelychanged their marketing, their
branding fits, because theirbranding says, hey, we're going
to do this, we're going to dosomething that nobody else ever
has done.
I saw a video the other day howum tim cook was.
(20:39):
They called him the blackberrykiller because he talked about
and he did a statement, truestatement when the app, when the
iphone first came out.
He used this as an example, andnot to be, but to make a point
hey, when you buy a blackberry,you can't evolve, you can change
.
Those buttons are on your phoneforever, like, there's no
(21:02):
changing that.
So how do we create a productthat looks different and can be
different?
The iPhone is a screen.
All we have to do is updatesoftware looks.
I mean, look at it right now,at the time of right now.
This past week they havereleased the new iOS 26.
Yep, completely different.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Oh, yeah, I'll tell you too, to your point.
I love that you used Applebecause, man, I remember when
Steve Jobs got up and said hey,we're going to put this device
in the palm of your hand.
Oh, and, by the way, it's alsoan MP3 player, it's also a phone
.
It also can do your email.
It also can do email.
It also can do he was paintinga picture for the future.
(21:43):
And now, if you look at it,every year in the month of
September they do a.
They used to do it live inperson.
And then, obviously, when COVIDhit in 2020, 2021, they started
going to virtual.
And, brady, I'm sure, like you,I watch it.
I don't watch it live.
And, brady, I'm sure, like you,I watch it.
I don't watch it live, but Iwatch it the evening of just to
see what happened.
And that brand new what is it?
(22:03):
The iPhone Air they have now islike it's so thin I don't know
how they even put the computerchip in it.
That thing is thin.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
So it's, it's Well and I mean I think too to the
point with Apple as well is andAdam, I don't know if you've
thought about this, but Applehas the capability of making
some tweaks, making some changes, even making some larger
changes, because they have somuch their audience, their
(22:34):
followers, their consumers haveso much trust in the brand, in
the organization, that if theymake a change, they're like you
know what their customer mightsay.
I'm willing to give that a shotbecause I trust them.
You know, as opposed to CrackerBarrel and I don't know, I'm
just speculating, but you knowit's a difference in saying, hey
(22:57):
, we're going to go from crispypancakes to major crispy
pancakes or add some pecans inthere, as opposed to let's just
change up the whole stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, you know too Cracker Barrel.
As Adam said, they tried tocommunicate a new story without
grounding it in their core brand.
Well, listeners, we just wantto tell you thank you so much
for tuning in today.
We're going to do a part two onthis because now that you've
heard the backstory of CrackerBarrel, we want to help walk you
through how you can know youraudience.
(23:28):
So stay tuned for next episode.
You can find us on any socialplatform.
At HigherUpPodcast, you cansubscribe at HigherUpPodcastcom.
Choose your favorite platform,whether it's Apple yes, that's
the way to go or Spotify, orYouTube, or whatever you'd like.
Appreciate you guys all tuningin.
As always, choose to live ahigher up life.
We'll see you next time.
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