June 9, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens when life gives you the push you’ve been avoiding? For Julia Arpag, getting laid off just five weeks after giving birth wasn’t a setback; it was the spark that launched her recruiting agency, Aligned Recruitment. In this inspiring episode, Julia shares how losing her “stable” W-2 job opened her eyes to the power of owning your career path.
With roots in therapy and a passion for meaningful connections, Julia reveals how she has built a thriving business by leading with empathy, curiosity, and authenticity, proving that recruitment doesn’t have to be transactional. She also challenges the hustle-at-all-costs startup myth, showing how it’s possible to grow a business and design a life you love.
From navigating motherhood to embracing AI in recruiting, Julia offers hard-won wisdom and a rallying cry for anyone contemplating entrepreneurship: "If you're determined to learn, no one can stop you."
Additional Resources:
- Aligned Recruitment
- Recruiting Trends for 2025
- Can You Trust AI to Handle Recruitment?
- The Benefits of Working With a Staffing Agency
🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out 4 Corner Resources at https://www.4cornerresources.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/
👋 FOLLOW JULIA ARPAG ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-arpag/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pete Newsome (00:00):
You're listening to the Hire Calling Podcast,
your source for all thingshiring, staffing and recruiting.
My guest today is Julia Arpag,ceo and founder of Aligned
Recruitment.
Julia, how are you today?
Julia Arpag (00:11):
Hi, pete, I'm great .
It's so good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Pete Newsome (00:14):
It's really nice to connect.
You have your headphones now.
You didn't have them the firsttime we tried, but here we are.
We're doing this.
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy, I'mprepared, here we go Well, good,
well, let's get right into itthen.
I just want to start by gettinga feel for your recruiting
background.
I've read your story, I know it, but share that with us, if you
(00:35):
could.
Julia Arpag (00:36):
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking.
So I first started recruiting,actually as an admissions
counselor at a college backright out of college myself.
I had so much fun.
I was an English major so I hadliterally no career prospects
and so I went into admissionsand it was such a blast.
And then my husband and I movedfrom New York down to Atlanta
for his job.
So I was like, okay, what do Ido now?
(00:57):
So I ended up landing incorporate recruitment, like I
got an internal recruitment roleat a headquarters here in
Atlanta, did that for about ayear and then pivoted to agency
recruiting.
So I've been doing agencyrecruiting since the end of 2018
.
Pete Newsome (01:13):
And eventually you decided to go out on your own.
So, we all have this journeyright Anyone who starts a
company.
I have my story.
Was there a catalyst that waskind of a light bulb moment
where you said now's the time Ineed to do it?
Julia Arpag (01:27):
It was a pretty significant catalyst, as you
know from my LinkedIn post.
So August 2023, the CEO of thetech recruitment startup I was
working at at the time called meand he was like hey, I know you
had a baby five weeks ago, butthere's no money left, so I have
to let you off.
Like I just have to lay out.
He was like I haven't paidmyself in months.
(01:47):
There's our $0.
So I don't even hold thatagainst him.
Like whenever I tell peoplethat story, they're horrified.
But I'm like you can't makemoney grow on a money tree.
So he was in a tough spot.
Like I feel for him.
Now that I'm a founder, I'm likeman, that would be a terrible
phone call to have to make.
So it was actually perfectbecause I'd been thinking about
going out on my own for about ayear at that point, but it just
(02:09):
felt so terrifying, like therewas so much I didn't know there
Again, I have kids.
I had four kids at the time.
We have two biological sons theone who was five weeks old then
and another who was two yearold two years old then, and then
we are also foster parents andanother who was two years old
then, and then we are alsofoster parents, so we've had
kids in and out of our home forthe past four and a half years.
So at the time we also had twoteenage foster sons, so it just
(02:31):
felt really scary to lose thestability of a full-time salary.
But then when I got laid off, Iwas like, oh, there actually is
no stability in a full-time W-2salary and, if anything, if you
own a business and you lose aclient, that's okay because you
have other clients, so you don'tlose all your income overnight.
But if you're a W-2 employeeand you lose your job, you lose
all your income overnight.
(02:51):
So that really is the kick Ineeded to get out of the nest
and I started the business.
Like three weeks later I had aco-founder.
At the time she had alreadyspun up the website, but she was
like hey, I haven't closed asingle client and it's been four
months.
Like, you seem like you'rereally good at this, can you
come help me?
So, sure enough, I closed threeclients in our first month and
(03:12):
I was like this feels like aninequitable partnership.
So I ended up buying her out,uh, which I definitely stand by
that decision.
Um, and so we've been runningthe business for almost two
years now.
Pete Newsome (03:22):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, if it makes you feelbetter, I think you'll
appreciate.
My catalyst was my 53-year-oldvice president of sales getting
laid off from his job, who Ireported to at a very large
company.
Now I'm 54 now, so this reallyresonates with me and that was a
panic moment for me.
I looked at this situation andsaid this is what I'm aspiring
(03:45):
to, the job I'm aspiring to bein.
There is no security in this.
So I made the decision.
I talked about starting astaffing company for a decade
before actually doing it, and Itold my wife I remember where,
exactly where we were.
We were in the parking lot of aPublix around the corner from
our house.
She was pregnant with our thirdchild and I said I'm quitting
(04:05):
and I'm going to start mystaffing company in a few months
.
And her line that I've repeatedso many times over the years
was just don't be stressed whenthe baby comes.
That's all I ask I'm like.
Well, that's impossible.
So I might as well be stressedon my own, with my fate in my
own hands, versus waiting forthe ax to fall because someone
else decided that for me.
And so I think anyone who goesout on a ledge and does it
(04:29):
probably realizes that's not thereal risk.
The risk is not taking a chanceand betting on yourself?
Julia Arpag (04:36):
Yes, I completely agree with that.
Now.
Pete Newsome (04:40):
Yeah, the world doesn't encourage us to do that,
though, does it it?
Julia Arpag (04:43):
doesn't, because I think so personally.
I didn't know any entrepreneursgrowing up.
I shouldn't say that my auntand uncle are entrepreneurs, but
they lived in like anotherstate.
They felt so far away.
My parents had like the samesteady job for their whole lives
.
My dad just retired fromteaching last year.
My mom is retiring from beingan arts practitioner this year.
Like they were very traditionalin their path.
(05:05):
So I just saw like really noexamples and I saw they did have
a lot of stability.
Like you know, if you're ateacher you have a pension.
Like you're golden, Like youhave to really suck to get fired
from being a teacher.
So I saw these examples of W-2sbeing stable growing up and
(05:27):
then obviously it's, you know,years and years and years later
than it was when I was a kid.
I'm 35 now, so the world haschanged.
But also the industry I'vechosen is very different from
the industries my parents chose.
I chose tech, I choserecruitment and my parents
didn't.
So I think I've learned in thespace I've chosen.
Yes, there is actually a lotmore stability going out on my
own and it does take a lot ofself-reliance though and a lot
(05:47):
of self-confidence.
If you're not a top performer,I actually don't think you
should go out on your own,because you probably won't be
able to make it, because therest of us are out here, to put
it bluntly, kicking ass andtaking names.
So you just can't compete.
Pete Newsome (05:59):
I couldn't agree more, and I noticed you wrote
something similar to that in aLinkedIn post and it really
resonated with me because I wasa top performer as an employee
and I felt guilty.
I always wanted to do somethingon my own, but I felt guilty,
taking that time away from myjob and I would see other people
do things on the side and Ialways thought, well, that
(06:20):
doesn't seem right to me.
You have to be the best atwhatever it is you're doing at
that moment.
Julia Arpag (06:26):
And.
Pete Newsome (06:27):
I realized, as many of us do, who take this
step.
Well, I could be the best formyself, or I could be the best
for someone else, and if youhave that work ethic, that is a
huge component of, in my opinion, of what's going to determine
your success or failure.
If you go out on your own is noone's watching you, and if
you're not able and willing toperform when no one's looking
(06:48):
over your shoulder and I hadoperated that way for years as a
sales rep in the technologyspace I knew I would do it and
be motivated and didn't needanyone to help me.
But I don't think that's thecase for a lot of people.
I think they realize that thehard way when they go out on
their own.
Julia Arpag (07:06):
Agreed, Agreed.
Yeah, If you're not the topproducer on your team, you
should not start your owncompany Like you.
Just don't.
You just don't have the drive,the motivation, the discipline,
the perseverance.
I know I'm going to get pushedback on that but that is 100%
what I believe.
Pete Newsome (07:21):
I'm with you.
Well, look, I mean thinking ofgoing on their own, but you
mentioned something I want to goback to that the industry is
very different than what yourparents worked in, of course,
but I would say our industry isvery different today than it was
even in 2023.
It's changing rapidly.
Julia Arpag (07:39):
That's a good call.
Pete Newsome (07:40):
That's true, I would agree with that.
Well, you'll appreciate this.
When I left recruiting um inearly in my career and got away
from it in the technology saleswhen I came back in 2000, uh,
december 2005 is when I startedfour corner, there were no job
boards when I learned to recruitthat wasn't a thing coming into
the world of.
At the time it was monster theywere the 800 pound gorilla.
(08:02):
And then career builder wascoming on the scene Monster,
they were the 800-pound gorilla.
and then CareerBuilder wascoming on the scene.
That was all new to me.
So the industry had changed alot then.
But now it's changing almost ona monthly basis, it seems, with
AI.
What's your take on that?
Julia Arpag (08:14):
I'm so excited, pete.
So let me be fully transparentabout my almost two years of
running the business.
I have realized about myself Ican hire backend operations team
members for my team, no problem.
But every time I've tried tohire a recruiter, I'm holding
them to the standard of me, andeveryone who's performing like I
am has started their ownbusiness.
(08:34):
So that's not fair of me.
So I love AI because it'sallowed me to start to think
about how can I just multiply myown efforts, like, is there a
way that I can run aseven-figure business where I
don't need to hire otherrecruiters because I'm able to
be so efficient that I can carrya million-dollar ARR on my own?
(08:54):
And the answer now is yes.
So I'm at the beginning offiguring all that out, like
figuring out what tools I wantto use, figuring out how I'm
going to source more effectively, screen more efficiently, make
sure the only candidates I'mspeaking with are definite
submits to send over to myclient.
But now there's tools that makethat possible.
So I'm thrilled.
I'm so excited.
Pete Newsome (09:14):
Any tools in particular that you've latched
on to yet.
Julia Arpag (09:17):
Yeah.
So my favorite sourcing toolI've found so far is Juicebox,
and it is super affordable.
So LinkedIn Recruiter I don'tknow if you use it as a business
owner, but they charge you anarm and a leg because there's
really no competition.
So, rather than give literallyall my money to LinkedIn
Recruiter, as soon as mycontract with them ends I'm
going to switch over to Juiceboxor maybe there'll be a better
tool on the market by then, butthat's the best one I found so
(09:38):
far for sourcing.
I'll be honest, I have notfound a good one for screening,
because everything I found, Ithink, gives a really bad
candidate experience wherethey're like okay, this weird
robot thing is interviewing me,this doesn't feel personalized,
it doesn't feel good.
I don't like that.
Like I really would love tofind some kind of screening tool
that sets the candidate at ease, and I haven't found out what
(10:00):
that is yet.
Pete Newsome (10:01):
So our experience has kind of been the of that
where I just heard of Juiceboxthis week in fact, and we're
setting up a demo with them.
So I'll get to experience thatsoon.
But we use Converse AI.
I don't know if you've triedthat or demoed it?
Julia Arpag (10:15):
No, I'm writing this down right now.
That's your screening tool.
Pete Newsome (10:18):
That's our screening tool.
It doesn't do everything we'dwant, but it solves a problem
that I've that's bothered me foryears, which is, you know, one
click apply is so prevalent now,and we know that, and it's
really just made a mess of theapplication process where you
post a job and candidatesthere's no, there's no level of
(10:39):
effort needed for them to justsend their resume over or apply
to the job.
So you end up getting a lot ofunqualified candidates.
We all know that, and so what Iwanted to solve was a
first-level screen where I wasthinking we could do it via
email and this is just somethingthat was impossible for me to
solve, which seems crazy wherewe just have an auto-reply that
(11:01):
effectively said thanks forapplying.
Please confirm the followingyou have these skills, you're in
this geography, you're at thissalary level, whatever, it is
right.
Just some basic screenings sothat one click apply applicant
who knew they weren't qualifiedfor the job would have to
actually spend just a couple ofseconds of effort and they
wouldn't do it.
(11:21):
Odds are right.
They're not going to say yes.
I meet this criteria if theydon't, but I wanted to use that
as a baseline before one of ourhuman recruiters actually became
engaged with the applicant.
So Converse solves that.
Converse will call, email andtext the applicant as soon as it
happens, and it's amazinglyeffective and powerful.
Julia Arpag (11:43):
Now I have a question about that, because we
mostly headhunt Like.
Very few of the candidates weengage are actively applying for
jobs.
They're the ones that we'regoing out and sourcing.
Have you found this to besuccessful with headhunted
candidates?
Are they willing to do this?
Pete Newsome (11:55):
So the candidate acceptance for this is really
high and we haven't seen much ofthe differentiation between
low-level, high, high endcandidates, whatever it might be
when we.
One thing that Converse doesn'tdo, yet that we'd like it to do
, is take a hot list ofcandidates that and then
proactively reach out to themright.
(12:16):
So it's really more of areactive solution today.
But, to your point, if you'recalling one candidate at a time,
it's not going to be aseffective for you, right?
I don't know that.
I would recommend it forhigher-end positions where
there's a really small candidatepool.
So we don't see the samebenefit across all of our jobs,
(12:37):
but as the candidate pool widenswe really see that
effectiveness kick in because itallows us to be so much more
efficient with reaching ahundred candidates, 200
candidates for baselinescreening and then really
spending time with the ones whoare qualified and you know that
administrative it's notadministrative time, but it may
as well be where you're lookingthrough resumes, trying to find
(12:58):
the right candidate.
The search time If you can takeall that out of the equation and
just have recruiters actuallyspeaking live with candidates,
to me that's utopia, that's thegoal.
Julia Arpag (13:07):
I agree, I agree.
So I have a sourcer on my teamwho does that.
He reviews all the applicantsand he headhunts 20 to 40
profiles per day.
He's fantastic, but if I couldmake him even more like, if he
could do that for 100 to 200candidates today, because he has
AI tools undergirding his work,that would.
Pete Newsome (13:29):
Check it out and it's more of ruling candidates
out than it is of qualifyingthem, and I think that's a huge
time saver.
Julia Arpag (13:37):
So yeah, check it out.
Pete Newsome (13:38):
We helped each other with that.
Julia Arpag (13:39):
Thank you, yeah, I'll take it.
I'll take it.
Pete Newsome (13:42):
Are there any other tools that you have your
eye on?
Julia Arpag (13:44):
So those are the two.
Well, now I have Converse AI,but Deucebox is my favorite for
sourcing and then for candidatessubmit notes.
I use two different AI tools.
I use Firefly's AI I use torecord client intake calls so
that my team and I can referback to them, because it records
the whole video.
But it comes into everyplatform, so whether you have it
on Zoom, microsoft, teams,google, whatever, it just comes
(14:07):
in as like an additional guest.
So that's been helpful to haverecordings of every single
client sales and intake call.
And then I use Granola AIbecause it types up the notes.
So I use that for candidatescreens, so that types up my
notes for me so I can use thoseas the submits and take out the
admin time of having toarduously type everything up.
Pete Newsome (14:27):
Now, does that populate in your ATS, or do you
have to do that manually?
Julia Arpag (14:31):
No, I have to do that manually, okay Okay.
But if you have to do thatmanually, no, I have to do that
manually Okay Okay, but if youhave one that populates in your
ETS.
Pete Newsome (14:38):
I'll definitely hear about that.
Julia Arpag (14:41):
We don't currently, but there's a product called
Quill.
I don't know if you've comeacross that.
I have heard of Quill.
Yeah, it's a lot pricier, I'llbe honest.
That's why I'm sticking withGranola for now?
Pete Newsome (14:50):
Yeah, Okay.
So Granola AI yeah, yeah,exactly.
So where do you think AI isheading?
Do you think?
Are you worried at all abouthow it's going to impact the job
market overall, how it's goingto impact our?
Julia Arpag (15:01):
industry?
Not even a little bit.
I think it'll just weed out thebad recruiters, like the people
who can't assimilate, thepeople who can't figure out how
to use these tools and maketheir work more effective and
more efficient.
They'll just leave, and thenthose of us who do figure out
how to use it to be even betterat what we're already good at
(15:22):
we'll just keep killing it.
Pete Newsome (15:23):
So is it fair to say then you're not worried
because you know you're goodenough to survive that.
But for the market as a whole,I think it's going to reduce the
need for the number ofrecruiters out there.
Julia Arpag (15:31):
And the number of screeners anyone?
Pete Newsome (15:34):
who's in that role .
I think I could see and thismay sound extreme, you may not
agree with it that about 90% ofthe effort of recruiting that
takes humans to do today isgoing to go away, and we're
going to God.
Julia Arpag (15:46):
I hope so.
Oh Pete, you and I would billso much more money if that
happened.
I hope that happens.
That'd be fantastic.
Pete Newsome (15:53):
I just think it's inevitable, I mean the evolution
is so rapid and we're like justtalking about Converse.
I mean, if you hear the demo orthe live conversations it has,
it of course identifies thatit's AI, but if it didn't, you
wouldn't necessarily know duringthe conversation.
It would at least take a whileto figure it out.
So it's so early in this.
(16:14):
I just think it's going tocontinue to evolve so rapidly
and we're doing things with BDright now.
I won't spend too much time.
I'm happy to talk to you aboutit later, but we're doing
prospecting emails that aregenerated by AI, that are just.
They're at such a differentlevel of effectiveness and scale
(16:35):
than a human could ever do.
Julia Arpag (16:36):
It's um really you get a good response rate to
email.
Pete Newsome (16:40):
Yes.
Julia Arpag (16:41):
I'm shocked to hear that.
What percent response do youget on the BD side?
Pete Newsome (16:44):
Um, this is early, so it's a tool that we're we're
building with uh with anoutside partner.
Um, and early results are about8% response rate.
Julia Arpag (16:54):
Oh cool, yeah, that's higher than average.
Pete Newsome (16:59):
Average is like one to three, so that's
definitely better.
Julia Arpag (17:01):
It's crazy high especially when you consider
humans don't really have totouch it.
Yeah, it just runs in thebackground for you.
So you're like why not close acouple new clients from
something that's doing the workfor me?
Pete Newsome (17:08):
Yeah, this is all different, new and different for
me, but that that leads to whatI really wanted to ask you
about today.
For you in particular and Ithink others would benefit from
hearing your story asdifferentiation and you know it
is something that is hard tocome by in our industry, for, at
least for many companies, it'ssomething that we're all asked
(17:29):
about, of course, right, whatmakes you different than your
competition?
So let's just start with that.
What makes you different thanall the other recruiters?
Julia Arpag (17:37):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So one of our company values isalignment, which makes sense
because we're called AlignedRecruiting or Recruitment, and
so that is how I live my life.
I live very authentically.
You see me post on LinkedInabout, yes, my story as a
business owner, but you also seeme post about being a foster
parent.
You see me post on LinkedInabout, yes, my story as a
business owner, but you also seeme post about being a foster
parent.
You see me post about being awife.
You see me post about gettinglaid off five weeks postpartum.
(17:59):
I'm very transparent about a lotof the elements of my story and
that tends to be why I get thehigh response rates I get when I
do reach out to prospectiveclients and prospective
candidates.
Like almost everyone I reachout to now says oh yeah, I saw
(18:21):
you on LinkedIn or I heard youon this podcast.
So I think just by being honestand being real in an industry
that can be pretty buttoned up,I think has really helped me
differentiate myself.
And then I ask extremelyintense questions when we get on
an intake together.
I'm going to basically knowyour blood type once we get off
the call, because I know that'show my team and I'm going to
basically know, like your bloodtype once we get off the call,
because I know that's how myteam and I are going to go be
able to source the bestcandidates for you.
So I was debating back in theday before I decided to go into
(18:44):
recruitment.
I was debating if I was goingto stay in recruitment or if I
was going to become a therapist.
I actually got into grad schoolfor a therapy program I'm not
even joking and the reason Istuck with recruitment is,
transparently, you can make ashit ton more money than you can
as a therapist.
I decided to stick with this.
But that energy like thatgenuine interest in people and
curiosity about people's storiesand desire to serve people and
(19:05):
help people I've carried thatwith me in my recruitment career
and most recruiters I've metjust aren't like that.
So I think I have theseintrinsic qualities that make
people want to talk to mebecause I ask about them, I want
to hear about them, somethingthat I would love for your
audience to start doing.
Get someone to talk for fourminutes uninterrupted.
Their dopamine will spike.
(19:26):
So if you can ask themthoughtful enough questions that
they want to talk four minutesstraight, they will remember
that because they'll rememberhaving they probably wouldn't
put words to it like this, buttheir dopamine would be higher
during your conversation than ittypically is.
So truly, that's a big thingthat differentiates me.
And then on the delivery side,like we just get really good
candidates in process reallyquickly, like one of our North
(19:48):
star metrics is that we havefour candidates actively
interviewing with all of ourclients, and these are typically
executive level searches withinthree weeks of launching the
role.
Pete Newsome (19:56):
You know, it's such an interesting statement
that you made.
I've never heard that or thoughtof it in that context, but one
of the things that I've learnedover the years is that by asking
questions, you're so much morelikable than if you're talking,
and what I encourage my team todo is just put themselves in a
situation of like being at aparty, if you don't know anyone
(20:21):
in the room and you meet someonenew and all you do is ask
questions of them when are theyfrom, what do they do, what do
they like, what their interestsare and you say nothing about
yourself.
When you walk away from thatconversation, they'll think
you're wonderful, right?
Even though you shared nothingabout yourself to give them the
impression that you're wonderful, but you expressed genuine
(20:41):
curiosity and interest in them,and we all want that right In
our relationships.
We all want to feel valued, wewant to feel heard, we want to
feel respected, and you'rebringing that to the business
world and it's simple, right?
I mean, that's the crazy thing.
You don't have to feel pressureto tell a story or talk about
why you're so good at what youdo.
(21:02):
You just need to ask and why doyou think more people don't
realize that?
Julia Arpag (21:08):
Pete, I have no idea.
It's so strange to me.
I'm like guys, just be Okay.
To be transparent, I think it'sbecause a lot of people haven't
seen this modeled.
So I think most people in theworld aren't very good at asking
questions and aren't genuinelycurious about other people.
So I think that's a big pieceof it is they've never seen it
(21:29):
modeled, so they haven't beenable to learn it.
And I've seen this as aconsistent quality in the
successful founders and CEOsthat I've met.
Almost all of them aregenuinely curious or make you
feel like they're genuinelycurious, and almost all of them
ask a lot of questions andreally do want to get to
understand and not just askquestions for the sake of
checking off boxes.
So I think most people don't doit because they don't know how
(21:49):
to do it, and the ones who do doit are very effective at it.
Pete Newsome (21:52):
But isn't that how you learn, right?
I mean by doing, by asking andfinding out from others, right?
I mean, look, we both learnedsomething from each other within
five minutes of thisconversation.
That is going to make us betterat what we do, or at least give
us the opportunity to be betterat what we do.
If you don't ask us questionsyou're not going to improve and,
(22:15):
as it relates to the world ofrecruiting, I don't know how
people effectively take joborders or qualify candidates if
they don't go deep.
I mean that is something that,to me, is just one-on-one right.
Julia Arpag (22:27):
Yes, and that's why , to your point, 90% of the work
we do is going to be automated,and so that 10% of the stuff
that requires high emotionalintelligence do is going to be
automated, and so that 10% ofthe stuff that requires high
emotional intelligence that isgoing to make agencies like
yours and mine really rise tothe top, because we do have that
skillset, we have learned howto do that.
Pete Newsome (22:44):
Yeah, so I think it's safe to say then you're not
big in the VMS world.
Julia Arpag (22:49):
Ah, 0%, not in VMS at all.
Okay, fair enough.
Pete Newsome (22:54):
What else I mean?
So they look you're, you'regoing up against.
You're in Atlanta, right, yeah,um, you're going up against.
I mean, insight global isheadquartered there, right
there's a huge Ronstadt office.
Julia Arpag (23:04):
Here, yeah yeah, huge, huge global companies are
headquartered here.
Pete Newsome (23:08):
Yep, everyone's there.
Uh, we know that.
So it you have to get in thedoor somehow, right?
I mean, to be genuine, to havethose conversations, you first
have to have the opportunity tointeract with someone.
Live, what, what do you do inthere?
I mean, that's, that's look,it's really hard.
I mean sales to me and staffingand most industries, but
(23:28):
specifically in ours is thehardest part of it.
Recruiting, oh yeah, relativelyis easy.
I don't mean to downplay that.
You still have to be reallygood and thorough, but you have
to get the business first andthat's where most hit a ceiling
and new people really struggle.
I mean hiring new and trainingnew salespeople is probably the
biggest challenge of moststaffing companies.
(23:49):
Those who figured out grow,those who don't can't.
So how were you able to get inthe door?
Julia Arpag (23:56):
So I'm targeting different clients than the
Insight Globals and the RonStodds of the world.
So, like I said, before Istarted my business, I was
working for a tech recruitmentcompany that solely worked with
startups.
So I was working with reallysmall companies, really small
teams, and that was such a blastthat that's where I knew I
wanted to focus when I opened upmy own boutique firm.
(24:17):
So my goal is not to gotoe-to-toe with Insider Ronstadt
.
Those are not my competitors.
My competitors are fellowboutique agencies and my goal is
actually not necessarily togrow.
I think once I get to between 1and 3 million ARR, I'd be really
surprised if I decided to growpast that.
That is a very, very sweet spotfor me where I want to work
(24:39):
with a handful of clients whereI personally am directly
involved in sales and delivery.
I really enjoy being able to dothe work I do.
So I pride myself on reallyunderstanding my niche, which is
small B2B SaaS startups, andserving them with white glove
service, where you're not justone of thousands of clients that
(25:03):
a huge firm has, you're one ofa very small handful and you're
getting to interact directlywith the CEO and founder.
Me Understood.
Pete Newsome (25:11):
Now, that's limiting, right.
You can only be in so manyplaces at any given time, do you
?
Uh?
Do you not think at some pointyou'd want to be able to
replicate yourself somehow, eventhough?
Julia Arpag (25:21):
that's, oh, my gosh P I would love to replicate
myself.
Who do you know?
That's as intense as I am.
Send them to me, please.
Pete Newsome (25:26):
I mean that's that's such a hard decision, and
it'll be.
I'll look forward to followingyour.
When I started by myself, Ididn't anticipate that I would
have a difficult timereplicating myself.
Quite frankly, I thoughtbecause, sales, I think if
(25:47):
you're good at it, it seems verynatural you take some of the
things you do for granted.
You expect that others shouldbe able to do it.
Julia Arpag (25:55):
But then you find out that is so relatable.
It's been shocking to me thatthings I assume are like base
level competencies people don'thave.
Pete Newsome (26:03):
No, why do you think that is?
Julia Arpag (26:05):
Pete, we're the cream of the crop, I guess based
on this conversation.
No, you tell me, because you'vebeen running your business for
20 years.
How have you found thoseabsolute rock star A player,
pete times 10 people?
Where are they?
Do you have them on your team?
Pete Newsome (26:23):
No, we well, I, I, we have a few, but that has
been our limiter Um, and noquestion about it.
That's why I turned tomarketing.
Uh, six years ago, uh, for thefirst 13 years I was in business
, we did no marketing whatsoever.
Our website was five pages.
I would say stupid things inhindsight, like what are you
supposed to put on a staffingcompany website Like you have?
(26:43):
You need people.
We find people like how many?
pages does it take?
Here's how to contact us Now.
Our website is tens ofthousands of pages and we have a
ridiculous amount of content onthere.
We've invested heavily time,effort, dollars into it so we
can attract inbound business andhave those opportunities come
(27:04):
to us.
I mean so.
I only turned to that, out offrustration and almost a
concession, quite frankly, thatI couldn't figure out how to
scale a sales organization right, even though on the surface it
seems like it should berelatively easy.
But I have to acknowledge thatsales is anything but easy.
Julia Arpag (27:25):
It is.
It is and my goal.
Honestly, I'm very contentbeing a founder-led sales
organization, but I think what'sbeen surprising for me is that
I've only hired one recruiter.
She was amazing.
She was with us for a year andthen left for another
opportunity, but now her currentcompany is our client, so it
all worked out.
But I've only had one recruiterthat I was delighted with.
Everyone else I've hadperformance issues.
(27:47):
Either they've left or I've hadto let them go.
I cannot, for the life of me,find a kick-ass A-player, rock
star recruiter.
So what I've done is I'll dosplits, like other recruitment
agency owners I know.
If they have a lower desk, I'llbring them in to work on my
recs.
I've talked to several othersolopreneur-ish type recruiters
who have done that and been verysuccessful with that.
(28:07):
So I do have a couple of thoseagreements, which has been very
effective because they aresimilar to us, because they're
fellow agency owners.
But that's obviously not agreat long-term model.
I really would like to buildout better internal capacity.
So I'm on the hunt.
I will say my executive coach,diane Prince.
She's a total genius.
She and I were on a coachingcall yesterday and her
(28:28):
recommendation is that youactually hire people who are
doing the job that you'rerecruiting for.
So right now we have a ton oftech sales director roles on our
desk.
So I'm actually chatting with acouple tech sales reps this
week and next week to see ifthey could be a good fit to come
on board as a 360 recruiter forme, where they're recruiting
people who are basically themand they're selling our services
(28:50):
at Aligned.
So that's something I'mtrialing.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Pete Newsome (28:53):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Good luck.
Have you ever heard of or reada book called the E-Myth?
No, so I recommend it.
It's basically the premise isthat most people who start a
business aren't entrepreneurs wetalked about that a little bit
ago but they're technicians.
They're someone who felt thatthey did something really,
really well.
They were a top performer,wherever they came from.
(29:14):
Does that sound familiar?
And they thought I can go anddo this on my own.
I don't need to do this forsomeone else.
And they do.
And then they realize thatthey're not running a business
as much as they are the business.
Now you seem like you'recontent with that, at least for
now.
I'll check back with you infive years to see if my tune has
changed, which it might.
Julia Arpag (29:36):
When I started the business, hear me say I wanted
to scale it to eight figures.
This is a new realization whereI'm like wait the things I
value more than anything else.
I value flexibility and freedomover revenue, so my focus is on
.
So I work 30, 35 hours a week.
I'm not driving myself into theground I have two young kids.
(29:58):
I have a marriage that I want tocontinue to invest in and not
burn to the ground either, sothat is such a priority for me
that that's why I have nohesitation about prioritizing
those relationships over settinga lofty revenue goal.
So, all that being said, yes,I'm very open to my priority
shifting as my kids get olderand as my life changes.
Anyway, keep going with theE-Myth.
Pete Newsome (30:19):
Yeah, I mean, for me it was as much as anything.
I didn't want to.
You could sell indefinitely,right?
I wanted to evolve.
I wanted to run a businesseventually and help others have
success and grow and scale.
So that was my intention.
But you can't do that if youare the business, and so the
(30:40):
whole book is basically.
I recommend reading it.
I think you'd enjoy it.
It's about how you just most ofus who start a company have a
very difficult time getting outof the way.
Julia Arpag (30:53):
A hundred percent, because we do unfairly hold our
team to the same standard thatwe hold ourselves to, and that's
.
I recognize that that's notfair, which is why I'm I'm
debating do I just let that goand and really continue to
simply be a founder led company?
Or, to your point, do Ieventually evolve and become
more of an entrepreneur and lessof a technician?
(31:14):
So, like you said, well, well,let's have a yearly check-in.
We're both leaning towards that.
I'm reading 10X is easier than2X right now, and that has a
similar flavor where it's likeyou could 2X your business but
you can't 10X it if you're goingto be involved in every deal
and every client and everydelivery model and all that kind
of stuff.
So I totally hear what you'resaying.
Pete Newsome (31:35):
It is so much easier said than done, but here
is one piece of advice I'll giveyou unsolicited.
You're not asking for it, it'sjust trust your instinct on this
.
One of the mistakes that I madewas hiring a consultant who I
thought knew better and had uschange a lot of the just
fundamental things, just corebeliefs that I had in terms of
what it takes to succeed andwhat expectations should be on
(31:59):
employees.
We evolved, we downgraded.
Basically, we were reallyintense at the beginning.
So I started with Aerotech inthe early years and if you know
anything about that company nowthe Allegiant Group, tech
Systems and IT it was all underthe Aerotech brand Very intense.
Julia Arpag (32:14):
Yeah, I've heard a lot about them.
Pete Newsome (32:15):
Back in the early days, you'll get a kick out of
this.
My first interview question Iwas a senior in college.
The guy who interviewed me saidwe work eight to eight Monday
through Thursday, eight to fiveon Friday.
Should we continue?
And I was like well, I got apoli-sci degree, a two point
something GPA and 20 bucks inthe bank.
Yeah, let's go.
Julia Arpag (32:34):
That is hysterical.
Good for them, though.
They're like right out the gate.
Pete Newsome (32:46):
This is who we are Get in or get out.
I actually love that.
Turnover was ridiculous andthey fully accepted it.
I was one of 30 that started inmy class.
They were hiring, you know,growing like a weed at the time
and I think by the time I gotpromoted from recruiter to sales
, that was the carrot that theydangled right.
Work really hard and figuredout and you can get promoted to
the sales role.
It took me about seven or eightmonths to get promoted and I
(33:06):
think there were only ninepeople left from the 30 after
that, so huge turnover.
But you know what they they?
They held true for at leastmany, many years to their core
beliefs, which is we're going tooutwork everyone, we, we, we're
in a commoditized industry inmany cases Not that they said
that back then, but I think thatwas the premise.
That's what was going on.
Yeah, we're going to outworkeveryone.
And then people say, well, worksmarter.
(33:28):
Well, they're going to worksmarter too.
So now who's going to win?
Yeah, right, I'm workingsmarter and I'm going to work 20
more hours than you every week.
Yeah, I'm going to find morecandidates, I'm going to produce
faster all the above.
And so I have a lot of respectfor that, and it was a great
thing for me to establish thatwork ethic early on in my
professional life, and I triedto carry that forward with Four
(33:49):
Corner and ultimately I wastold-.
Julia Arpag (33:52):
So when you hired that consultant, what shifted?
What did they recommend?
That didn't resonate with you?
Pete Newsome (33:56):
So we'd already dumbed down our hour.
We worked those kind of hoursearly, but this was at a time
where this was 2014.
And there was this wholemovement of be more like Google,
right, have toys in the officeand make office fun.
And you'd see, like you know,kegs in the office.
That was like stuff, all likecelebrated on LinkedIn.
You know people doing as muchstuff that had nothing to do
(34:18):
with work as they did with work,and that's just.
I don't believe in that.
So I believe in let's workreally hard and earn, you know
the the right to enjoy our timewhen we're not working, right,
but I didn't.
I don't like.
This is a long story I won'tbore you with, but when I was at
Aerotech, you were expected tospend time outside of the office
(34:41):
with them.
So it wasn't just work untileight, it was work until eight,
and then let's go to happy hourfor two hours.
Julia Arpag (34:46):
Oh my gosh, it's not happy hour, that's bedtime.
Pete Newsome (34:49):
It's crazy Right In hindsight, but I was single
and they would hire all theseyoung people right out of
college and that was so smart.
It was at a time you could doit, but I didn't want to do it
indefinitely.
No one did.
So the consultant was basicallylike Pete, you can't operate
that way.
You have to be more like Google.
I'm like Google is Google.
(35:11):
I don't have the brand youdon't have the brand recognition
.
None of us are Google, so youcan't just copy and paste Google
but I bought into it to somedegree and I, we changed and we,
we, we started letting thingsgo that we never would have and
our culture shifted in a, in a,in a way that, um, I wish I'd
never done it.
So, um, we, we've recoveredfrom that.
Julia Arpag (35:32):
That was a long time ago now, but, um, and now
are you back to the eight toeight schedule.
Pete Newsome (35:36):
No, we never were that here.
No, it was.
But early days, we, we.
I would say, hey, look, anyoneI recruited internally.
I would say you have to bewilling to work until at least
seven every night.
We won't, but don't come hereunless you're willing to do that
, because I never wanted to haveto apologize for someone
staying late.
The nature of our businessessometimes we do have to work
(35:58):
extra hours, right.
But I always wanted theorganization to be more flexible
, where, if you get everythingdone, go ahead and leave early.
Go do the stuff in yourpersonal life that you need to
do, but be willing to put yourfoot on the gas, and so that's
kind of where we are today.
But look, I mean we're a40-hour week by default now.
It drives me crazy, I'll admitit.
Julia Arpag (36:21):
You know I don't work for it, but that's good
that you know that.
I love that you know that aboutyourself.
It sounds like both you and Ireally have leaned into what
matters to us.
How are we going to measuresuccess, and not taking someone
else's barometer to dictate whatthat looks like for our
business.
So I love that you've had thatawareness.
That's awesome.
Well, I lost it for a while.
Pete Newsome (36:36):
So that's where that's so you've recovered it.
Julia Arpag (36:38):
Let's say, you've recovered that awareness, which
is amazing.
Pete Newsome (36:41):
And to your point about family, I mean I always
look, I have four kids.
I coached every sport, I'venever missed a game, I didn't
miss practices.
But then I was also willing togo back and jump online at night
, at nine o'clock if I needed to, to do a couple hours.
So that's what I've alwayswanted was for myself and others
is to do what you need to doLike take, don't make me look
(37:02):
over your shoulder, don't makeme worry about hours that you're
working.
Julia Arpag (37:05):
Maximize the opportunity.
Pete Newsome (37:07):
That's so much easier said than done.
Julia Arpag (37:09):
But yeah, yeah, there's this book I read years
ago about a results-based workenvironment and I've never
forgotten that, like I trulycouldn't care less about how
many hours I or someone on myteam works, as long as you're
getting done.
What you need to get done andthat, I think, has been what's
hard for me to adjust to is thatI think a lot of employees do
think in terms of hours.
They don't think in terms ofresults.
(37:30):
So that's what's tough, because, yeah, I don't care how many
hours you work at all, but theseare the KPIs that I need you to
hit.
These are the places I need tomake sure all your recs are in
before you log off for the day,and if they're there at noon
like, okay, bye, go have like aI don't know, go to the spa, I
don't care.
But, if you're not there, thenlike you can't log out, like I'm
(37:50):
totally with you, pete.
Yeah, if I could just geteveryone to have the same
expectations for themselves,we'd be golden, do you remember
the name of the book.
Shoot Results.
The acronym was R-O-W-E.
Oh Results Only WorkEnvironment.
That was it.
Pete Newsome (38:09):
Okay, I love it.
Yeah, look into it.
So you're never going to getpeople to think like you.
We know that.
Julia Arpag (38:15):
No right, which is I'm in the process of letting
that go.
I'm in that journey.
Pete Newsome (38:21):
But once you establish your standard.
I mean my mistake was lettingothers influence that and in
hindsight I never should have.
Julia Arpag (38:30):
I should say wait this is working.
Pete Newsome (38:32):
This is what we grew 45% in the year I hired
this consultant.
This is what we grew 45% in theyear I hired this consultant
45% and we were already over.
Yeah, I think we were like a$10 or $12 million company going
into that year and so thingswere working great and we
derailed it all.
So hopefully that doesn'thappen, but it sounds like you
are.
I love where you are with this.
(38:53):
You're in a, you're energy.
Julia Arpag (38:55):
I have a lot of clarity on what I want out of
the business.
That's been.
That's been really helpful forme.
And what's cool is so I havethe executive coach and then I
have several entrepreneurfriends and we all value cause.
There's a billion differentways to be an entrepreneur.
We're all in about the samelife stage and we're all in
about the same.
Like we all have about the sameinterest.
(39:18):
Like they're all million ishdollar businesses.
They're all parents with youngkids who want to be super
present.
All of us are like they'reabout to leave and go live in
Greece for a year.
Uh, we're thinking about doinga digital nomad year where we
homeschool our kids.
My husband and I both workremotely, so like we're all kind
of in that same.
Like we aggressively valueflexibility and autonomy and
then we the money likeundergirds our lifestyle and
(39:39):
that's it.
Like that, that's what it it it.
It functions to serve us, notwe serve money.
That's the thinking.
Pete Newsome (39:47):
Yeah, Money to me is options, right, I mean you
need to have more options.
If you don't, is you know?
When I was broke, I had nooptions.
Julia Arpag (39:57):
It's so true.
It's so true.
I grew up as one of seven kids,so I never really understood
that, because we just didn'thave a lot and that was fine.
Like we were like, whatever ourvacations are camping in, like
a busted up camper, Like, and Iwas like this is so fun.
Like my siblings were and stillare my best friends.
And then I married my husband.
He was like the bougiest manwho's ever lived.
He was raised as one of twokids by an anesthesiologist and
(40:19):
a software engineer, so we couldnot have grown up more
differently.
So we get married and he's likeall right, we're going to go
out to eat five nights or fivenights a week.
And I was like what ishappening?
Like where am I?
So, yes, I didn't even realizethe options that exist when you
have money until I became anadult.
So I totally hear that.
Pete Newsome (40:36):
Well, I hope you do that digital nomad year.
We talked about doing it whenmy oldest who's now 25, was in
her eighth grade year.
So we thought once she getsinto high school it won't be
practical to do.
And I was obsessed with it formonths and we ended up not doing
it for all the reasons thatanyone would be held back from
not doing it, which are all BSreasons.
Can I ask what?
What were the reasons thatanyone would be held back from
(40:56):
not doing it?
Julia Arpag (40:56):
which are all BS reasons.
Can I ask what?
What were the reasons youdidn't do it?
Just you know just it's.
Pete Newsome (41:02):
There was not even one specific reason, it was
just a complexity of it, or Iyou know fear.
Julia Arpag (41:06):
Yeah, it is because there's a lot of details to
think through.
Pete Newsome (41:09):
Fear, just like starting a business.
The world doesn't encourage youto do that right.
You'll find select few peoplewho will, but it's just.
It seems like it's not whatyou're supposed to do, right.
It's odd, it's unusual.
It's not as unusual as it was10 years ago.
(41:29):
It's becoming more common.
But I will always regret itbecause it's time you can never
get back right, I know, hey,could you go now?
Credit, um, because it's timeyou can never get back Right.
And could you go now?
Uh, I well so.
Julia Arpag (41:44):
I'm in a different situation now.
Pete Newsome (41:44):
My youngest is now going to be a senior in high
school next year.
Oh my gosh, unfortunately mykids are.
You know they're, they're alloff doing.
Julia Arpag (41:49):
Yeah, they won't go with you, but you could go,
adults only.
I don't know.
Pete Newsome (41:53):
No, a hundred percent.
We're we're planning to kind ofgo live in different cities for
a month at a time Um, beginningnext September, and, you know,
go somewhere for a month, comeback here.
Julia Arpag (42:04):
Um, you're doing it .
Pete Newsome (42:05):
I love that We'll get there, but but to do it with
my kids, uh, to do it when theywere young, we always made time
for a great vacation, so Idon't have any regrets there, Um
, but and and spent more than Ishould have.
Julia Arpag (42:20):
I get it.
I get it.
Pete Newsome (42:20):
Yeah, yeah.
But we did all the things thatI didn't do.
That stuff growing up either,and that was one of my life
motivations and starting abusiness was I wanted to be able
to, you know, take the skitrips and and to to go, you know
wherever we wanted to go, andwe did it, and again I overspent
and it was fiscallyirresponsible but zero regrets
on doing that.
Julia Arpag (42:40):
So I really hope you do it, man.
Pete Newsome (42:42):
I'm going to be super envious.
Julia Arpag (42:44):
No, I know right, maybe I won't tell you if we do
it, because you'll be sad.
If something tells me you won'tbe able to keep that quiet
socially, I know, you know me,I'll post about it like every
day on LinkedIn for the yearthat we do it.
Yeah, we know me.
I'll post about it like everyday on LinkedIn for the year
that we do it.
Yeah, we're in talks right nowabout putting up our house on
furnished finders where you canget people to rent it long-term,
and then we would just stay infurnished finders around the
(43:05):
country.
My brother's doing that rightnow in Hawaii.
He and his girlfriend have beenthere for six months and
they're living their best life,so we're excited.
Pete Newsome (43:11):
Very cool.
Well, there's another staffingcompany owner, a friend of mine
named Patrick Surmeyer.
He did it a couple of years agoand traveled around.
So if you ever want to connectwith Patrick, I'm happy to
introduce you.
Julia Arpag (43:22):
I've talked to people that have done it without
kids, but not someone who'sdone it with young kids, so if
he did it with young kids, Iwould love to talk to him.
Pete Newsome (43:27):
He did too, two kids so great, great, same life.
Let's.
It was a lot of fun to watchtheir journey, so I hope you do
it Well cool, all right, so Ican keep you all day.
Julia Arpag (43:41):
We're actually recording, which I kind of
forgot.
Pete Newsome (43:42):
We're just chatting.
Julia Arpag (43:43):
We're just two business owners and parents and
just living our lives.
Pete Newsome (43:48):
About differentiation, I mean.
So how you differentiateyourself is very clear to me.
Which is you?
You are the differentiator.
Which is you?
You are the differentiator.
And unfortunately for us, ifyou want to scale you can't
replicate yourself.
Julia Arpag (44:08):
It's impossible.
That's why I love AI because Ican replicate my work while
still having me be like thepersonal brand.
So that's where my strategy isright now.
Pete Newsome (44:13):
Absolutely Well.
It's great that you'resucceeding.
It's not a surprise to me afterspending time now getting to
know you a little bit and whyyou're succeeding.
But I also know that that'srare, that someone who has not
only the potential from apersonality standpoint but a
willingness to put themselvesout there like you're doing and
(44:33):
it may be a little scary atfirst.
But any advice to people whoare just held back from doing
that I mean many are, oh, that'sa good question.
Julia Arpag (44:42):
Yeah, it's funny.
I talk to a lot of people whoare held back and I think, like
you just said, it's fear.
It's fear of the unknown, it'sfear of the instability.
So I honestly think you have toshift your thinking, like I did
.
You have to understand having aW-2 job is actually less stable
than being an entrepreneur andyou have to undergird your work
(45:05):
with discipline.
Like, hear me say, if you'renot, if you can have a super
bubbly personality but you'renot disciplined, don't bother.
You'll go broke in like 10minutes, like don't, don't,
don't, do it.
But I think if you have thecombination of you're confident,
you're disciplined and you'rewilling to learn, then there's
no reason you shouldn't do itand you will actually be very
successful if you have thosethree qualities.
(45:26):
My favorite quote is if yourefuse to learn, no one can help
you.
If you're determined to learn,no one can stop you.
Pete Newsome (45:34):
I love it.
What a perfect quote.
What a perfect way to end.
So that is we can't top that.
We can't top that, we'll leaveit there.
It is a thousand percentaccurate.
So, julia, thank you, this hasbeen a lot of fun.
I really am glad that we wereable to do this today.
Headphones and all.
Julia Arpag (45:52):
So, yes, me too, pete, thank you for having me.
Yes, me too, pete, thank youfor having me.
I really loved it.
Pete Newsome (45:55):
All right, we'll check in next year and see where
you are then.
Julia Arpag (45:57):
Yes, let's do it.
Pete Newsome (45:59):
All right Thanks.
Julia Arpag (46:01):
Thank you.
You're listening to the Hire Calling Podcast,
your source for all thingshiring, staffing and recruiting.
My guest today is Julia Arpag,ceo and founder of Aligned
Recruitment.
Julia, how are you today?
Julia Arpag (00:11):
Hi, pete, I'm great .
It's so good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Pete Newsome (00:14):
It's really nice to connect.
You have your headphones now.
You didn't have them the firsttime we tried, but here we are.
We're doing this.
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy, I'mprepared, here we go Well, good,
well, let's get right into itthen.
I just want to start by gettinga feel for your recruiting
background.
I've read your story, I know it, but share that with us, if you
(00:35):
could.
Julia Arpag (00:36):
Absolutely.
Thank you for asking.
So I first started recruiting,actually as an admissions
counselor at a college backright out of college myself.
I had so much fun.
I was an English major so I hadliterally no career prospects
and so I went into admissionsand it was such a blast.
And then my husband and I movedfrom New York down to Atlanta
for his job.
So I was like, okay, what do Ido now?
(00:57):
So I ended up landing incorporate recruitment, like I
got an internal recruitment roleat a headquarters here in
Atlanta, did that for about ayear and then pivoted to agency
recruiting.
So I've been doing agencyrecruiting since the end of 2018
.
Pete Newsome (01:13):
And eventually you decided to go out on your own.
So, we all have this journeyright Anyone who starts a
company.
I have my story.
Was there a catalyst that waskind of a light bulb moment
where you said now's the time Ineed to do it?
Julia Arpag (01:27):
It was a pretty significant catalyst, as you
know from my LinkedIn post.
So August 2023, the CEO of thetech recruitment startup I was
working at at the time called meand he was like hey, I know you
had a baby five weeks ago, butthere's no money left, so I have
to let you off.
Like I just have to lay out.
He was like I haven't paidmyself in months.
(01:47):
There's our $0.
So I don't even hold thatagainst him.
Like whenever I tell peoplethat story, they're horrified.
But I'm like you can't makemoney grow on a money tree.
So he was in a tough spot.
Like I feel for him.
Now that I'm a founder, I'm likeman, that would be a terrible
phone call to have to make.
So it was actually perfectbecause I'd been thinking about
going out on my own for about ayear at that point, but it just
(02:09):
felt so terrifying, like therewas so much I didn't know there
Again, I have kids.
I had four kids at the time.
We have two biological sons theone who was five weeks old then
and another who was two yearold two years old then, and then
we are also foster parents andanother who was two years old
then, and then we are alsofoster parents, so we've had
kids in and out of our home forthe past four and a half years.
So at the time we also had twoteenage foster sons, so it just
(02:31):
felt really scary to lose thestability of a full-time salary.
But then when I got laid off, Iwas like, oh, there actually is
no stability in a full-time W-2salary and, if anything, if you
own a business and you lose aclient, that's okay because you
have other clients, so you don'tlose all your income overnight.
But if you're a W-2 employeeand you lose your job, you lose
all your income overnight.
(02:51):
So that really is the kick Ineeded to get out of the nest
and I started the business.
Like three weeks later I had aco-founder.
At the time she had alreadyspun up the website, but she was
like hey, I haven't closed asingle client and it's been four
months.
Like, you seem like you'rereally good at this, can you
come help me?
So, sure enough, I closed threeclients in our first month and
(03:12):
I was like this feels like aninequitable partnership.
So I ended up buying her out,uh, which I definitely stand by
that decision.
Um, and so we've been runningthe business for almost two
years now.
Pete Newsome (03:22):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, if it makes you feelbetter, I think you'll
appreciate.
My catalyst was my 53-year-oldvice president of sales getting
laid off from his job, who Ireported to at a very large
company.
Now I'm 54 now, so this reallyresonates with me and that was a
panic moment for me.
I looked at this situation andsaid this is what I'm aspiring
(03:45):
to, the job I'm aspiring to bein.
There is no security in this.
So I made the decision.
I talked about starting astaffing company for a decade
before actually doing it, and Itold my wife I remember where,
exactly where we were.
We were in the parking lot of aPublix around the corner from
our house.
She was pregnant with our thirdchild and I said I'm quitting
(04:05):
and I'm going to start mystaffing company in a few months
.
And her line that I've repeatedso many times over the years
was just don't be stressed whenthe baby comes.
That's all I ask I'm like.
Well, that's impossible.
So I might as well be stressedon my own, with my fate in my
own hands, versus waiting forthe ax to fall because someone
else decided that for me.
And so I think anyone who goesout on a ledge and does it
(04:29):
probably realizes that's not thereal risk.
The risk is not taking a chanceand betting on yourself?
Julia Arpag (04:36):
Yes, I completely agree with that.
Now.
Pete Newsome (04:40):
Yeah, the world doesn't encourage us to do that,
though, does it it?
Julia Arpag (04:43):
doesn't, because I think so personally.
I didn't know any entrepreneursgrowing up.
I shouldn't say that my auntand uncle are entrepreneurs, but
they lived in like anotherstate.
They felt so far away.
My parents had like the samesteady job for their whole lives
.
My dad just retired fromteaching last year.
My mom is retiring from beingan arts practitioner this year.
Like they were very traditionalin their path.
(05:05):
So I just saw like really noexamples and I saw they did have
a lot of stability.
Like you know, if you're ateacher you have a pension.
Like you're golden, Like youhave to really suck to get fired
from being a teacher.
So I saw these examples of W-2sbeing stable growing up and
(05:27):
then obviously it's, you know,years and years and years later
than it was when I was a kid.
I'm 35 now, so the world haschanged.
But also the industry I'vechosen is very different from
the industries my parents chose.
I chose tech, I choserecruitment and my parents
didn't.
So I think I've learned in thespace I've chosen.
Yes, there is actually a lotmore stability going out on my
own and it does take a lot ofself-reliance though and a lot
(05:47):
of self-confidence.
If you're not a top performer,I actually don't think you
should go out on your own,because you probably won't be
able to make it, because therest of us are out here, to put
it bluntly, kicking ass andtaking names.
So you just can't compete.
Pete Newsome (05:59):
I couldn't agree more, and I noticed you wrote
something similar to that in aLinkedIn post and it really
resonated with me because I wasa top performer as an employee
and I felt guilty.
I always wanted to do somethingon my own, but I felt guilty,
taking that time away from myjob and I would see other people
do things on the side and Ialways thought, well, that
(06:20):
doesn't seem right to me.
You have to be the best atwhatever it is you're doing at
that moment.
Julia Arpag (06:26):
And.
Pete Newsome (06:27):
I realized, as many of us do, who take this
step.
Well, I could be the best formyself, or I could be the best
for someone else, and if youhave that work ethic, that is a
huge component of, in my opinion, of what's going to determine
your success or failure.
If you go out on your own is noone's watching you, and if
you're not able and willing toperform when no one's looking
(06:48):
over your shoulder and I hadoperated that way for years as a
sales rep in the technologyspace I knew I would do it and
be motivated and didn't needanyone to help me.
But I don't think that's thecase for a lot of people.
I think they realize that thehard way when they go out on
their own.
Julia Arpag (07:06):
Agreed, Agreed.
Yeah, If you're not the topproducer on your team, you
should not start your owncompany Like you.
Just don't.
You just don't have the drive,the motivation, the discipline,
the perseverance.
I know I'm going to get pushedback on that but that is 100%
what I believe.
Pete Newsome (07:21):
I'm with you.
Well, look, I mean thinking ofgoing on their own, but you
mentioned something I want to goback to that the industry is
very different than what yourparents worked in, of course,
but I would say our industry isvery different today than it was
even in 2023.
It's changing rapidly.
Julia Arpag (07:39):
That's a good call.
Pete Newsome (07:40):
That's true, I would agree with that.
Well, you'll appreciate this.
When I left recruiting um inearly in my career and got away
from it in the technology saleswhen I came back in 2000, uh,
december 2005 is when I startedfour corner, there were no job
boards when I learned to recruitthat wasn't a thing coming into
the world of.
At the time it was monster theywere the 800 pound gorilla.
(08:02):
And then career builder wascoming on the scene Monster,
they were the 800-pound gorilla.
and then CareerBuilder wascoming on the scene.
That was all new to me.
So the industry had changed alot then.
But now it's changing almost ona monthly basis, it seems, with
AI.
What's your take on that?
Julia Arpag (08:14):
I'm so excited, pete.
So let me be fully transparentabout my almost two years of
running the business.
I have realized about myself Ican hire backend operations team
members for my team, no problem.
But every time I've tried tohire a recruiter, I'm holding
them to the standard of me, andeveryone who's performing like I
am has started their ownbusiness.
(08:34):
So that's not fair of me.
So I love AI because it'sallowed me to start to think
about how can I just multiply myown efforts, like, is there a
way that I can run aseven-figure business where I
don't need to hire otherrecruiters because I'm able to
be so efficient that I can carrya million-dollar ARR on my own?
(08:54):
And the answer now is yes.
So I'm at the beginning offiguring all that out, like
figuring out what tools I wantto use, figuring out how I'm
going to source more effectively, screen more efficiently, make
sure the only candidates I'mspeaking with are definite
submits to send over to myclient.
But now there's tools that makethat possible.
So I'm thrilled.
I'm so excited.
Pete Newsome (09:14):
Any tools in particular that you've latched
on to yet.
Julia Arpag (09:17):
Yeah.
So my favorite sourcing toolI've found so far is Juicebox,
and it is super affordable.
So LinkedIn Recruiter I don'tknow if you use it as a business
owner, but they charge you anarm and a leg because there's
really no competition.
So, rather than give literallyall my money to LinkedIn
Recruiter, as soon as mycontract with them ends I'm
going to switch over to Juiceboxor maybe there'll be a better
tool on the market by then, butthat's the best one I found so
(09:38):
far for sourcing.
I'll be honest, I have notfound a good one for screening,
because everything I found, Ithink, gives a really bad
candidate experience wherethey're like okay, this weird
robot thing is interviewing me,this doesn't feel personalized,
it doesn't feel good.
I don't like that.
Like I really would love tofind some kind of screening tool
that sets the candidate at ease, and I haven't found out what
(10:00):
that is yet.
Pete Newsome (10:01):
So our experience has kind of been the of that
where I just heard of Juiceboxthis week in fact, and we're
setting up a demo with them.
So I'll get to experience thatsoon.
But we use Converse AI.
I don't know if you've triedthat or demoed it?
Julia Arpag (10:15):
No, I'm writing this down right now.
That's your screening tool.
Pete Newsome (10:18):
That's our screening tool.
It doesn't do everything we'dwant, but it solves a problem
that I've that's bothered me foryears, which is, you know, one
click apply is so prevalent now,and we know that, and it's
really just made a mess of theapplication process where you
post a job and candidatesthere's no, there's no level of
(10:39):
effort needed for them to justsend their resume over or apply
to the job.
So you end up getting a lot ofunqualified candidates.
We all know that, and so what Iwanted to solve was a
first-level screen where I wasthinking we could do it via
email and this is just somethingthat was impossible for me to
solve, which seems crazy wherewe just have an auto-reply that
(11:01):
effectively said thanks forapplying.
Please confirm the followingyou have these skills, you're in
this geography, you're at thissalary level, whatever, it is
right.
Just some basic screenings sothat one click apply applicant
who knew they weren't qualifiedfor the job would have to
actually spend just a couple ofseconds of effort and they
wouldn't do it.
(11:21):
Odds are right.
They're not going to say yes.
I meet this criteria if theydon't, but I wanted to use that
as a baseline before one of ourhuman recruiters actually became
engaged with the applicant.
So Converse solves that.
Converse will call, email andtext the applicant as soon as it
happens, and it's amazinglyeffective and powerful.
Julia Arpag (11:43):
Now I have a question about that, because we
mostly headhunt Like.
Very few of the candidates weengage are actively applying for
jobs.
They're the ones that we'regoing out and sourcing.
Have you found this to besuccessful with headhunted
candidates?
Are they willing to do this?
Pete Newsome (11:55):
So the candidate acceptance for this is really
high and we haven't seen much ofthe differentiation between
low-level, high, high endcandidates, whatever it might be
when we.
One thing that Converse doesn'tdo, yet that we'd like it to do
, is take a hot list ofcandidates that and then
proactively reach out to themright.
(12:16):
So it's really more of areactive solution today.
But, to your point, if you'recalling one candidate at a time,
it's not going to be aseffective for you, right?
I don't know that.
I would recommend it forhigher-end positions where
there's a really small candidatepool.
So we don't see the samebenefit across all of our jobs,
(12:37):
but as the candidate pool widenswe really see that
effectiveness kick in because itallows us to be so much more
efficient with reaching ahundred candidates, 200
candidates for baselinescreening and then really
spending time with the ones whoare qualified and you know that
administrative it's notadministrative time, but it may
as well be where you're lookingthrough resumes, trying to find
(12:58):
the right candidate.
The search time If you can takeall that out of the equation and
just have recruiters actuallyspeaking live with candidates,
to me that's utopia, that's thegoal.
Julia Arpag (13:07):
I agree, I agree.
So I have a sourcer on my teamwho does that.
He reviews all the applicantsand he headhunts 20 to 40
profiles per day.
He's fantastic, but if I couldmake him even more like, if he
could do that for 100 to 200candidates today, because he has
AI tools undergirding his work,that would.
Pete Newsome (13:29):
Check it out and it's more of ruling candidates
out than it is of qualifyingthem, and I think that's a huge
time saver.
Julia Arpag (13:37):
So yeah, check it out.
Pete Newsome (13:38):
We helped each other with that.
Julia Arpag (13:39):
Thank you, yeah, I'll take it.
I'll take it.
Pete Newsome (13:42):
Are there any other tools that you have your
eye on?
Julia Arpag (13:44):
So those are the two.
Well, now I have Converse AI,but Deucebox is my favorite for
sourcing and then for candidatessubmit notes.
I use two different AI tools.
I use Firefly's AI I use torecord client intake calls so
that my team and I can referback to them, because it records
the whole video.
But it comes into everyplatform, so whether you have it
on Zoom, microsoft, teams,google, whatever, it just comes
(14:07):
in as like an additional guest.
So that's been helpful to haverecordings of every single
client sales and intake call.
And then I use Granola AIbecause it types up the notes.
So I use that for candidatescreens, so that types up my
notes for me so I can use thoseas the submits and take out the
admin time of having toarduously type everything up.
Pete Newsome (14:27):
Now, does that populate in your ATS, or do you
have to do that manually?
Julia Arpag (14:31):
No, I have to do that manually, okay Okay.
But if you have to do thatmanually, no, I have to do that
manually Okay Okay, but if youhave one that populates in your
ETS.
Pete Newsome (14:38):
I'll definitely hear about that.
Julia Arpag (14:41):
We don't currently, but there's a product called
Quill.
I don't know if you've comeacross that.
I have heard of Quill.
Yeah, it's a lot pricier, I'llbe honest.
That's why I'm sticking withGranola for now?
Pete Newsome (14:50):
Yeah, Okay.
So Granola AI yeah, yeah,exactly.
So where do you think AI isheading?
Do you think?
Are you worried at all abouthow it's going to impact the job
market overall, how it's goingto impact our?
Julia Arpag (15:01):
industry?
Not even a little bit.
I think it'll just weed out thebad recruiters, like the people
who can't assimilate, thepeople who can't figure out how
to use these tools and maketheir work more effective and
more efficient.
They'll just leave, and thenthose of us who do figure out
how to use it to be even betterat what we're already good at
(15:22):
we'll just keep killing it.
Pete Newsome (15:23):
So is it fair to say then you're not worried
because you know you're goodenough to survive that.
But for the market as a whole,I think it's going to reduce the
need for the number ofrecruiters out there.
Julia Arpag (15:31):
And the number of screeners anyone?
Pete Newsome (15:34):
who's in that role .
I think I could see and thismay sound extreme, you may not
agree with it that about 90% ofthe effort of recruiting that
takes humans to do today isgoing to go away, and we're
going to God.
Julia Arpag (15:46):
I hope so.
Oh Pete, you and I would billso much more money if that
happened.
I hope that happens.
That'd be fantastic.
Pete Newsome (15:53):
I just think it's inevitable, I mean the evolution
is so rapid and we're like justtalking about Converse.
I mean, if you hear the demo orthe live conversations it has,
it of course identifies thatit's AI, but if it didn't, you
wouldn't necessarily know duringthe conversation.
It would at least take a whileto figure it out.
So it's so early in this.
(16:14):
I just think it's going tocontinue to evolve so rapidly
and we're doing things with BDright now.
I won't spend too much time.
I'm happy to talk to you aboutit later, but we're doing
prospecting emails that aregenerated by AI, that are just.
They're at such a differentlevel of effectiveness and scale
(16:35):
than a human could ever do.
Julia Arpag (16:36):
It's um really you get a good response rate to
email.
Pete Newsome (16:40):
Yes.
Julia Arpag (16:41):
I'm shocked to hear that.
What percent response do youget on the BD side?
Pete Newsome (16:44):
Um, this is early, so it's a tool that we're we're
building with uh with anoutside partner.
Um, and early results are about8% response rate.
Julia Arpag (16:54):
Oh cool, yeah, that's higher than average.
Pete Newsome (16:59):
Average is like one to three, so that's
definitely better.
Julia Arpag (17:01):
It's crazy high especially when you consider
humans don't really have totouch it.
Yeah, it just runs in thebackground for you.
So you're like why not close acouple new clients from
something that's doing the workfor me?
Pete Newsome (17:08):
Yeah, this is all different, new and different for
me, but that that leads to whatI really wanted to ask you
about today.
For you in particular and Ithink others would benefit from
hearing your story asdifferentiation and you know it
is something that is hard tocome by in our industry, for, at
least for many companies, it'ssomething that we're all asked
(17:29):
about, of course, right, whatmakes you different than your
competition?
So let's just start with that.
What makes you different thanall the other recruiters?
Julia Arpag (17:37):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So one of our company values isalignment, which makes sense
because we're called AlignedRecruiting or Recruitment, and
so that is how I live my life.
I live very authentically.
You see me post on LinkedInabout, yes, my story as a
business owner, but you also seeme post about being a foster
parent.
You see me post on LinkedInabout, yes, my story as a
business owner, but you also seeme post about being a foster
parent.
You see me post about being awife.
You see me post about gettinglaid off five weeks postpartum.
(17:59):
I'm very transparent about a lotof the elements of my story and
that tends to be why I get thehigh response rates I get when I
do reach out to prospectiveclients and prospective
candidates.
Like almost everyone I reachout to now says oh yeah, I saw
(18:21):
you on LinkedIn or I heard youon this podcast.
So I think just by being honestand being real in an industry
that can be pretty buttoned up,I think has really helped me
differentiate myself.
And then I ask extremelyintense questions when we get on
an intake together.
I'm going to basically knowyour blood type once we get off
the call, because I know that'show my team and I'm going to
basically know, like your bloodtype once we get off the call,
because I know that's how myteam and I are going to go be
able to source the bestcandidates for you.
So I was debating back in theday before I decided to go into
(18:44):
recruitment.
I was debating if I was goingto stay in recruitment or if I
was going to become a therapist.
I actually got into grad schoolfor a therapy program I'm not
even joking and the reason Istuck with recruitment is,
transparently, you can make ashit ton more money than you can
as a therapist.
I decided to stick with this.
But that energy like thatgenuine interest in people and
curiosity about people's storiesand desire to serve people and
(19:05):
help people I've carried thatwith me in my recruitment career
and most recruiters I've metjust aren't like that.
So I think I have theseintrinsic qualities that make
people want to talk to mebecause I ask about them, I want
to hear about them, somethingthat I would love for your
audience to start doing.
Get someone to talk for fourminutes uninterrupted.
Their dopamine will spike.
(19:26):
So if you can ask themthoughtful enough questions that
they want to talk four minutesstraight, they will remember
that because they'll rememberhaving they probably wouldn't
put words to it like this, buttheir dopamine would be higher
during your conversation than ittypically is.
So truly, that's a big thingthat differentiates me.
And then on the delivery side,like we just get really good
candidates in process reallyquickly, like one of our North
(19:48):
star metrics is that we havefour candidates actively
interviewing with all of ourclients, and these are typically
executive level searches withinthree weeks of launching the
role.
Pete Newsome (19:56):
You know, it's such an interesting statement
that you made.
I've never heard that or thoughtof it in that context, but one
of the things that I've learnedover the years is that by asking
questions, you're so much morelikable than if you're talking,
and what I encourage my team todo is just put themselves in a
situation of like being at aparty, if you don't know anyone
(20:21):
in the room and you meet someonenew and all you do is ask
questions of them when are theyfrom, what do they do, what do
they like, what their interestsare and you say nothing about
yourself.
When you walk away from thatconversation, they'll think
you're wonderful, right?
Even though you shared nothingabout yourself to give them the
impression that you're wonderful, but you expressed genuine
(20:41):
curiosity and interest in them,and we all want that right In
our relationships.
We all want to feel valued, wewant to feel heard, we want to
feel respected, and you'rebringing that to the business
world and it's simple, right?
I mean, that's the crazy thing.
You don't have to feel pressureto tell a story or talk about
why you're so good at what youdo.
(21:02):
You just need to ask and why doyou think more people don't
realize that?
Julia Arpag (21:08):
Pete, I have no idea.
It's so strange to me.
I'm like guys, just be Okay.
To be transparent, I think it'sbecause a lot of people haven't
seen this modeled.
So I think most people in theworld aren't very good at asking
questions and aren't genuinelycurious about other people.
So I think that's a big pieceof it is they've never seen it
(21:29):
modeled, so they haven't beenable to learn it.
And I've seen this as aconsistent quality in the
successful founders and CEOsthat I've met.
Almost all of them aregenuinely curious or make you
feel like they're genuinelycurious, and almost all of them
ask a lot of questions andreally do want to get to
understand and not just askquestions for the sake of
checking off boxes.
So I think most people don't doit because they don't know how
(21:49):
to do it, and the ones who do doit are very effective at it.
Pete Newsome (21:52):
But isn't that how you learn, right?
I mean by doing, by asking andfinding out from others, right?
I mean, look, we both learnedsomething from each other within
five minutes of thisconversation.
That is going to make us betterat what we do, or at least give
us the opportunity to be betterat what we do.
If you don't ask us questionsyou're not going to improve and,
(22:15):
as it relates to the world ofrecruiting, I don't know how
people effectively take joborders or qualify candidates if
they don't go deep.
I mean that is something that,to me, is just one-on-one right.
Julia Arpag (22:27):
Yes, and that's why , to your point, 90% of the work
we do is going to be automated,and so that 10% of the stuff
that requires high emotionalintelligence do is going to be
automated, and so that 10% ofthe stuff that requires high
emotional intelligence that isgoing to make agencies like
yours and mine really rise tothe top, because we do have that
skillset, we have learned howto do that.
Pete Newsome (22:44):
Yeah, so I think it's safe to say then you're not
big in the VMS world.
Julia Arpag (22:49):
Ah, 0%, not in VMS at all.
Okay, fair enough.
Pete Newsome (22:54):
What else I mean?
So they look you're, you'regoing up against.
You're in Atlanta, right, yeah,um, you're going up against.
I mean, insight global isheadquartered there, right
there's a huge Ronstadt office.
Julia Arpag (23:04):
Here, yeah yeah, huge, huge global companies are
headquartered here.
Pete Newsome (23:08):
Yep, everyone's there.
Uh, we know that.
So it you have to get in thedoor somehow, right?
I mean, to be genuine, to havethose conversations, you first
have to have the opportunity tointeract with someone.
Live, what, what do you do inthere?
I mean, that's, that's look,it's really hard.
I mean sales to me and staffingand most industries, but
(23:28):
specifically in ours is thehardest part of it.
Recruiting, oh yeah, relativelyis easy.
I don't mean to downplay that.
You still have to be reallygood and thorough, but you have
to get the business first andthat's where most hit a ceiling
and new people really struggle.
I mean hiring new and trainingnew salespeople is probably the
biggest challenge of moststaffing companies.
(23:49):
Those who figured out grow,those who don't can't.
So how were you able to get inthe door?
Julia Arpag (23:56):
So I'm targeting different clients than the
Insight Globals and the RonStodds of the world.
So, like I said, before Istarted my business, I was
working for a tech recruitmentcompany that solely worked with
startups.
So I was working with reallysmall companies, really small
teams, and that was such a blastthat that's where I knew I
wanted to focus when I opened upmy own boutique firm.
(24:17):
So my goal is not to gotoe-to-toe with Insider Ronstadt
.
Those are not my competitors.
My competitors are fellowboutique agencies and my goal is
actually not necessarily togrow.
I think once I get to between 1and 3 million ARR, I'd be really
surprised if I decided to growpast that.
That is a very, very sweet spotfor me where I want to work
(24:39):
with a handful of clients whereI personally am directly
involved in sales and delivery.
I really enjoy being able to dothe work I do.
So I pride myself on reallyunderstanding my niche, which is
small B2B SaaS startups, andserving them with white glove
service, where you're not justone of thousands of clients that
(25:03):
a huge firm has, you're one ofa very small handful and you're
getting to interact directlywith the CEO and founder.
Me Understood.
Pete Newsome (25:11):
Now, that's limiting, right.
You can only be in so manyplaces at any given time, do you
?
Uh?
Do you not think at some pointyou'd want to be able to
replicate yourself somehow, eventhough?
Julia Arpag (25:21):
that's, oh, my gosh P I would love to replicate
myself.
Who do you know?
That's as intense as I am.
Send them to me, please.
Pete Newsome (25:26):
I mean that's that's such a hard decision, and
it'll be.
I'll look forward to followingyour.
When I started by myself, Ididn't anticipate that I would
have a difficult timereplicating myself.
Quite frankly, I thoughtbecause, sales, I think if
(25:47):
you're good at it, it seems verynatural you take some of the
things you do for granted.
You expect that others shouldbe able to do it.
Julia Arpag (25:55):
But then you find out that is so relatable.
It's been shocking to me thatthings I assume are like base
level competencies people don'thave.
Pete Newsome (26:03):
No, why do you think that is?
Julia Arpag (26:05):
Pete, we're the cream of the crop, I guess based
on this conversation.
No, you tell me, because you'vebeen running your business for
20 years.
How have you found thoseabsolute rock star A player,
pete times 10 people?
Where are they?
Do you have them on your team?
Pete Newsome (26:23):
No, we well, I, I, we have a few, but that has
been our limiter Um, and noquestion about it.
That's why I turned tomarketing.
Uh, six years ago, uh, for thefirst 13 years I was in business
, we did no marketing whatsoever.
Our website was five pages.
I would say stupid things inhindsight, like what are you
supposed to put on a staffingcompany website Like you have?
(26:43):
You need people.
We find people like how many?
pages does it take?
Here's how to contact us Now.
Our website is tens ofthousands of pages and we have a
ridiculous amount of content onthere.
We've invested heavily time,effort, dollars into it so we
can attract inbound business andhave those opportunities come
(27:04):
to us.
I mean so.
I only turned to that, out offrustration and almost a
concession, quite frankly, thatI couldn't figure out how to
scale a sales organization right, even though on the surface it
seems like it should berelatively easy.
But I have to acknowledge thatsales is anything but easy.
Julia Arpag (27:25):
It is.
It is and my goal.
Honestly, I'm very contentbeing a founder-led sales
organization, but I think what'sbeen surprising for me is that
I've only hired one recruiter.
She was amazing.
She was with us for a year andthen left for another
opportunity, but now her currentcompany is our client, so it
all worked out.
But I've only had one recruiterthat I was delighted with.
Everyone else I've hadperformance issues.
(27:47):
Either they've left or I've hadto let them go.
I cannot, for the life of me,find a kick-ass A-player, rock
star recruiter.
So what I've done is I'll dosplits, like other recruitment
agency owners I know.
If they have a lower desk, I'llbring them in to work on my
recs.
I've talked to several othersolopreneur-ish type recruiters
who have done that and been verysuccessful with that.
(28:07):
So I do have a couple of thoseagreements, which has been very
effective because they aresimilar to us, because they're
fellow agency owners.
But that's obviously not agreat long-term model.
I really would like to buildout better internal capacity.
So I'm on the hunt.
I will say my executive coach,diane Prince.
She's a total genius.
She and I were on a coachingcall yesterday and her
(28:28):
recommendation is that youactually hire people who are
doing the job that you'rerecruiting for.
So right now we have a ton oftech sales director roles on our
desk.
So I'm actually chatting with acouple tech sales reps this
week and next week to see ifthey could be a good fit to come
on board as a 360 recruiter forme, where they're recruiting
people who are basically themand they're selling our services
(28:50):
at Aligned.
So that's something I'mtrialing.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Pete Newsome (28:53):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Good luck.
Have you ever heard of or reada book called the E-Myth?
No, so I recommend it.
It's basically the premise isthat most people who start a
business aren't entrepreneurs wetalked about that a little bit
ago but they're technicians.
They're someone who felt thatthey did something really,
really well.
They were a top performer,wherever they came from.
(29:14):
Does that sound familiar?
And they thought I can go anddo this on my own.
I don't need to do this forsomeone else.
And they do.
And then they realize thatthey're not running a business
as much as they are the business.
Now you seem like you'recontent with that, at least for
now.
I'll check back with you infive years to see if my tune has
changed, which it might.
Julia Arpag (29:36):
When I started the business, hear me say I wanted
to scale it to eight figures.
This is a new realization whereI'm like wait the things I
value more than anything else.
I value flexibility and freedomover revenue, so my focus is on
.
So I work 30, 35 hours a week.
I'm not driving myself into theground I have two young kids.
(29:58):
I have a marriage that I want tocontinue to invest in and not
burn to the ground either, sothat is such a priority for me
that that's why I have nohesitation about prioritizing
those relationships over settinga lofty revenue goal.
So, all that being said, yes,I'm very open to my priority
shifting as my kids get olderand as my life changes.
Anyway, keep going with theE-Myth.
Pete Newsome (30:19):
Yeah, I mean, for me it was as much as anything.
I didn't want to.
You could sell indefinitely,right?
I wanted to evolve.
I wanted to run a businesseventually and help others have
success and grow and scale.
So that was my intention.
But you can't do that if youare the business, and so the
(30:40):
whole book is basically.
I recommend reading it.
I think you'd enjoy it.
It's about how you just most ofus who start a company have a
very difficult time getting outof the way.
Julia Arpag (30:53):
A hundred percent, because we do unfairly hold our
team to the same standard thatwe hold ourselves to, and that's
.
I recognize that that's notfair, which is why I'm I'm
debating do I just let that goand and really continue to
simply be a founder led company?
Or, to your point, do Ieventually evolve and become
more of an entrepreneur and lessof a technician?
(31:14):
So, like you said, well, well,let's have a yearly check-in.
We're both leaning towards that.
I'm reading 10X is easier than2X right now, and that has a
similar flavor where it's likeyou could 2X your business but
you can't 10X it if you're goingto be involved in every deal
and every client and everydelivery model and all that kind
of stuff.
So I totally hear what you'resaying.
Pete Newsome (31:35):
It is so much easier said than done, but here
is one piece of advice I'll giveyou unsolicited.
You're not asking for it, it'sjust trust your instinct on this
.
One of the mistakes that I madewas hiring a consultant who I
thought knew better and had uschange a lot of the just
fundamental things, just corebeliefs that I had in terms of
what it takes to succeed andwhat expectations should be on
(31:59):
employees.
We evolved, we downgraded.
Basically, we were reallyintense at the beginning.
So I started with Aerotech inthe early years and if you know
anything about that company nowthe Allegiant Group, tech
Systems and IT it was all underthe Aerotech brand Very intense.
Julia Arpag (32:14):
Yeah, I've heard a lot about them.
Pete Newsome (32:15):
Back in the early days, you'll get a kick out of
this.
My first interview question Iwas a senior in college.
The guy who interviewed me saidwe work eight to eight Monday
through Thursday, eight to fiveon Friday.
Should we continue?
And I was like well, I got apoli-sci degree, a two point
something GPA and 20 bucks inthe bank.
Yeah, let's go.
Julia Arpag (32:34):
That is hysterical.
Good for them, though.
They're like right out the gate.
Pete Newsome (32:46):
This is who we are Get in or get out.
I actually love that.
Turnover was ridiculous andthey fully accepted it.
I was one of 30 that started inmy class.
They were hiring, you know,growing like a weed at the time
and I think by the time I gotpromoted from recruiter to sales
, that was the carrot that theydangled right.
Work really hard and figuredout and you can get promoted to
the sales role.
It took me about seven or eightmonths to get promoted and I
(33:06):
think there were only ninepeople left from the 30 after
that, so huge turnover.
But you know what they they?
They held true for at leastmany, many years to their core
beliefs, which is we're going tooutwork everyone, we, we, we're
in a commoditized industry inmany cases Not that they said
that back then, but I think thatwas the premise.
That's what was going on.
Yeah, we're going to outworkeveryone.
And then people say, well, worksmarter.
(33:28):
Well, they're going to worksmarter too.
So now who's going to win?
Yeah, right, I'm workingsmarter and I'm going to work 20
more hours than you every week.
Yeah, I'm going to find morecandidates, I'm going to produce
faster all the above.
And so I have a lot of respectfor that, and it was a great
thing for me to establish thatwork ethic early on in my
professional life, and I triedto carry that forward with Four
(33:49):
Corner and ultimately I wastold-.
Julia Arpag (33:52):
So when you hired that consultant, what shifted?
What did they recommend?
That didn't resonate with you?
Pete Newsome (33:56):
So we'd already dumbed down our hour.
We worked those kind of hoursearly, but this was at a time
where this was 2014.
And there was this wholemovement of be more like Google,
right, have toys in the officeand make office fun.
And you'd see, like you know,kegs in the office.
That was like stuff, all likecelebrated on LinkedIn.
You know people doing as muchstuff that had nothing to do
(34:18):
with work as they did with work,and that's just.
I don't believe in that.
So I believe in let's workreally hard and earn, you know
the the right to enjoy our timewhen we're not working, right,
but I didn't.
I don't like.
This is a long story I won'tbore you with, but when I was at
Aerotech, you were expected tospend time outside of the office
(34:41):
with them.
So it wasn't just work untileight, it was work until eight,
and then let's go to happy hourfor two hours.
Julia Arpag (34:46):
Oh my gosh, it's not happy hour, that's bedtime.
Pete Newsome (34:49):
It's crazy Right In hindsight, but I was single
and they would hire all theseyoung people right out of
college and that was so smart.
It was at a time you could doit, but I didn't want to do it
indefinitely.
No one did.
So the consultant was basicallylike Pete, you can't operate
that way.
You have to be more like Google.
I'm like Google is Google.
(35:11):
I don't have the brand youdon't have the brand recognition
.
None of us are Google, so youcan't just copy and paste Google
but I bought into it to somedegree and I, we changed and we,
we, we started letting thingsgo that we never would have and
our culture shifted in a, in a,in a way that, um, I wish I'd
never done it.
So, um, we, we've recoveredfrom that.
Julia Arpag (35:32):
That was a long time ago now, but, um, and now
are you back to the eight toeight schedule.
Pete Newsome (35:36):
No, we never were that here.
No, it was.
But early days, we, we.
I would say, hey, look, anyoneI recruited internally.
I would say you have to bewilling to work until at least
seven every night.
We won't, but don't come hereunless you're willing to do that
, because I never wanted to haveto apologize for someone
staying late.
The nature of our businessessometimes we do have to work
(35:58):
extra hours, right.
But I always wanted theorganization to be more flexible
, where, if you get everythingdone, go ahead and leave early.
Go do the stuff in yourpersonal life that you need to
do, but be willing to put yourfoot on the gas, and so that's
kind of where we are today.
But look, I mean we're a40-hour week by default now.
It drives me crazy, I'll admitit.
Julia Arpag (36:21):
You know I don't work for it, but that's good
that you know that.
I love that you know that aboutyourself.
It sounds like both you and Ireally have leaned into what
matters to us.
How are we going to measuresuccess, and not taking someone
else's barometer to dictate whatthat looks like for our
business.
So I love that you've had thatawareness.
That's awesome.
Well, I lost it for a while.
Pete Newsome (36:36):
So that's where that's so you've recovered it.
Julia Arpag (36:38):
Let's say, you've recovered that awareness, which
is amazing.
Pete Newsome (36:41):
And to your point about family, I mean I always
look, I have four kids.
I coached every sport, I'venever missed a game, I didn't
miss practices.
But then I was also willing togo back and jump online at night
, at nine o'clock if I needed to, to do a couple hours.
So that's what I've alwayswanted was for myself and others
is to do what you need to doLike take, don't make me look
(37:02):
over your shoulder, don't makeme worry about hours that you're
working.
Julia Arpag (37:05):
Maximize the opportunity.
Pete Newsome (37:07):
That's so much easier said than done.
Julia Arpag (37:09):
But yeah, yeah, there's this book I read years
ago about a results-based workenvironment and I've never
forgotten that, like I trulycouldn't care less about how
many hours I or someone on myteam works, as long as you're
getting done.
What you need to get done andthat, I think, has been what's
hard for me to adjust to is thatI think a lot of employees do
think in terms of hours.
They don't think in terms ofresults.
(37:30):
So that's what's tough, because, yeah, I don't care how many
hours you work at all, but theseare the KPIs that I need you to
hit.
These are the places I need tomake sure all your recs are in
before you log off for the day,and if they're there at noon
like, okay, bye, go have like aI don't know, go to the spa, I
don't care.
But, if you're not there, thenlike you can't log out, like I'm
(37:50):
totally with you, pete.
Yeah, if I could just geteveryone to have the same
expectations for themselves,we'd be golden, do you remember
the name of the book.
Shoot Results.
The acronym was R-O-W-E.
Oh Results Only WorkEnvironment.
That was it.
Pete Newsome (38:09):
Okay, I love it.
Yeah, look into it.
So you're never going to getpeople to think like you.
We know that.
Julia Arpag (38:15):
No right, which is I'm in the process of letting
that go.
I'm in that journey.
Pete Newsome (38:21):
But once you establish your standard.
I mean my mistake was lettingothers influence that and in
hindsight I never should have.
Julia Arpag (38:30):
I should say wait this is working.
Pete Newsome (38:32):
This is what we grew 45% in the year I hired
this consultant.
This is what we grew 45% in theyear I hired this consultant
45% and we were already over.
Yeah, I think we were like a$10 or $12 million company going
into that year and so thingswere working great and we
derailed it all.
So hopefully that doesn'thappen, but it sounds like you
are.
I love where you are with this.
(38:53):
You're in a, you're energy.
Julia Arpag (38:55):
I have a lot of clarity on what I want out of
the business.
That's been.
That's been really helpful forme.
And what's cool is so I havethe executive coach and then I
have several entrepreneurfriends and we all value cause.
There's a billion differentways to be an entrepreneur.
We're all in about the samelife stage and we're all in
about the same.
Like we all have about the sameinterest.
(39:18):
Like they're all million ishdollar businesses.
They're all parents with youngkids who want to be super
present.
All of us are like they'reabout to leave and go live in
Greece for a year.
Uh, we're thinking about doinga digital nomad year where we
homeschool our kids.
My husband and I both workremotely, so like we're all kind
of in that same.
Like we aggressively valueflexibility and autonomy and
then we the money likeundergirds our lifestyle and
(39:39):
that's it.
Like that, that's what it it it.
It functions to serve us, notwe serve money.
That's the thinking.
Pete Newsome (39:47):
Yeah, Money to me is options, right, I mean you
need to have more options.
If you don't, is you know?
When I was broke, I had nooptions.
Julia Arpag (39:57):
It's so true.
It's so true.
I grew up as one of seven kids,so I never really understood
that, because we just didn'thave a lot and that was fine.
Like we were like, whatever ourvacations are camping in, like
a busted up camper, Like, and Iwas like this is so fun.
Like my siblings were and stillare my best friends.
And then I married my husband.
He was like the bougiest manwho's ever lived.
He was raised as one of twokids by an anesthesiologist and
(40:19):
a software engineer, so we couldnot have grown up more
differently.
So we get married and he's likeall right, we're going to go
out to eat five nights or fivenights a week.
And I was like what ishappening?
Like where am I?
So, yes, I didn't even realizethe options that exist when you
have money until I became anadult.
So I totally hear that.
Pete Newsome (40:36):
Well, I hope you do that digital nomad year.
We talked about doing it whenmy oldest who's now 25, was in
her eighth grade year.
So we thought once she getsinto high school it won't be
practical to do.
And I was obsessed with it formonths and we ended up not doing
it for all the reasons thatanyone would be held back from
not doing it, which are all BSreasons.
Can I ask what?
What were the reasons thatanyone would be held back from
(40:56):
not doing it?
Julia Arpag (40:56):
which are all BS reasons.
Can I ask what?
What were the reasons youdidn't do it?
Just you know just it's.
Pete Newsome (41:02):
There was not even one specific reason, it was
just a complexity of it, or Iyou know fear.
Julia Arpag (41:06):
Yeah, it is because there's a lot of details to
think through.
Pete Newsome (41:09):
Fear, just like starting a business.
The world doesn't encourage youto do that right.
You'll find select few peoplewho will, but it's just.
It seems like it's not whatyou're supposed to do, right.
It's odd, it's unusual.
It's not as unusual as it was10 years ago.
(41:29):
It's becoming more common.
But I will always regret itbecause it's time you can never
get back right, I know, hey,could you go now?
Credit, um, because it's timeyou can never get back Right.
And could you go now?
Uh, I well so.
Julia Arpag (41:44):
I'm in a different situation now.
Pete Newsome (41:44):
My youngest is now going to be a senior in high
school next year.
Oh my gosh, unfortunately mykids are.
You know they're, they're alloff doing.
Julia Arpag (41:49):
Yeah, they won't go with you, but you could go,
adults only.
I don't know.
Pete Newsome (41:53):
No, a hundred percent.
We're we're planning to kind ofgo live in different cities for
a month at a time Um, beginningnext September, and, you know,
go somewhere for a month, comeback here.
Julia Arpag (42:04):
Um, you're doing it .
Pete Newsome (42:05):
I love that We'll get there, but but to do it with
my kids, uh, to do it when theywere young, we always made time
for a great vacation, so Idon't have any regrets there, Um
, but and and spent more than Ishould have.
Julia Arpag (42:20):
I get it.
I get it.
Pete Newsome (42:20):
Yeah, yeah.
But we did all the things thatI didn't do.
That stuff growing up either,and that was one of my life
motivations and starting abusiness was I wanted to be able
to, you know, take the skitrips and and to to go, you know
wherever we wanted to go, andwe did it, and again I overspent
and it was fiscallyirresponsible but zero regrets
on doing that.
Julia Arpag (42:40):
So I really hope you do it, man.
Pete Newsome (42:42):
I'm going to be super envious.
Julia Arpag (42:44):
No, I know right, maybe I won't tell you if we do
it, because you'll be sad.
If something tells me you won'tbe able to keep that quiet
socially, I know, you know me,I'll post about it like every
day on LinkedIn for the yearthat we do it.
Yeah, we know me.
I'll post about it like everyday on LinkedIn for the year
that we do it.
Yeah, we're in talks right nowabout putting up our house on
furnished finders where you canget people to rent it long-term,
and then we would just stay infurnished finders around the
(43:05):
country.
My brother's doing that rightnow in Hawaii.
He and his girlfriend have beenthere for six months and
they're living their best life,so we're excited.
Pete Newsome (43:11):
Very cool.
Well, there's another staffingcompany owner, a friend of mine
named Patrick Surmeyer.
He did it a couple of years agoand traveled around.
So if you ever want to connectwith Patrick, I'm happy to
introduce you.
Julia Arpag (43:22):
I've talked to people that have done it without
kids, but not someone who'sdone it with young kids, so if
he did it with young kids, Iwould love to talk to him.
Pete Newsome (43:27):
He did too, two kids so great, great, same life.
Let's.
It was a lot of fun to watchtheir journey, so I hope you do
it Well cool, all right, so Ican keep you all day.
Julia Arpag (43:41):
We're actually recording, which I kind of
forgot.
Pete Newsome (43:42):
We're just chatting.
Julia Arpag (43:43):
We're just two business owners and parents and
just living our lives.
Pete Newsome (43:48):
About differentiation, I mean.
So how you differentiateyourself is very clear to me.
Which is you?
You are the differentiator.
Which is you?
You are the differentiator.
And unfortunately for us, ifyou want to scale you can't
replicate yourself.
Julia Arpag (44:08):
It's impossible.
That's why I love AI because Ican replicate my work while
still having me be like thepersonal brand.
So that's where my strategy isright now.
Pete Newsome (44:13):
Absolutely Well.
It's great that you'resucceeding.
It's not a surprise to me afterspending time now getting to
know you a little bit and whyyou're succeeding.
But I also know that that'srare, that someone who has not
only the potential from apersonality standpoint but a
willingness to put themselvesout there like you're doing and
(44:33):
it may be a little scary atfirst.
But any advice to people whoare just held back from doing
that I mean many are, oh, that'sa good question.
Julia Arpag (44:42):
Yeah, it's funny.
I talk to a lot of people whoare held back and I think, like
you just said, it's fear.
It's fear of the unknown, it'sfear of the instability.
So I honestly think you have toshift your thinking, like I did
.
You have to understand having aW-2 job is actually less stable
than being an entrepreneur andyou have to undergird your work
(45:05):
with discipline.
Like, hear me say, if you'renot, if you can have a super
bubbly personality but you'renot disciplined, don't bother.
You'll go broke in like 10minutes, like don't, don't,
don't, do it.
But I think if you have thecombination of you're confident,
you're disciplined and you'rewilling to learn, then there's
no reason you shouldn't do itand you will actually be very
successful if you have thosethree qualities.
(45:26):
My favorite quote is if yourefuse to learn, no one can help
you.
If you're determined to learn,no one can stop you.
Pete Newsome (45:34):
I love it.
What a perfect quote.
What a perfect way to end.
So that is we can't top that.
We can't top that, we'll leaveit there.
It is a thousand percentaccurate.
So, julia, thank you, this hasbeen a lot of fun.
I really am glad that we wereable to do this today.
Headphones and all.
Julia Arpag (45:52):
So, yes, me too, pete, thank you for having me.
Yes, me too, pete, thank youfor having me.
I really loved it.
Pete Newsome (45:55):
All right, we'll check in next year and see where
you are then.
Julia Arpag (45:57):
Yes, let's do it.
Pete Newsome (45:59):
All right Thanks.
Julia Arpag (46:01):
Thank you.
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