December 13, 2023 • 34 mins
Are you struggling with a high candidate drop-off rate during your recruitment process?
In this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez examine the pitfalls and consequences of a high candidate drop-off rate and offer insights on overcoming it.
They also focus on the candidate's experience during the hiring process, as many withdraw due to disorganized procedures or a lack of engagement from the recruitment team. Pete and Ricky emphasize the importance of respect and transparency regarding expectations and the recruiter's role as the candidate's "GPS."
Lastly, they explore the importance of improving job descriptions and speeding up the hiring process to address candidate drop-off rates. The two discuss how companies need to expedite their processes in response to the urgency felt by candidates.
Tune in to hear their personal experiences and tips for improving the candidate experience and minimizing negative word-of-mouth to enhance the overall success of your recruitment process.
Tips for Improving Your High Candidate Drop-Off Rate:
- Streamline the Application Process: Ensure the application process is straightforward and user-friendly. Lengthy or complicated applications can deter potential candidates.
- Communicate Clearly and Consistently: Keep candidates informed about their status and next steps in the process. Regular communication can keep candidates engaged and reduce uncertainty.
- Optimize the Interview Process: Schedule interviews promptly and be respectful of candidates' time. Consider reducing the number of interview rounds if possible.
- Feedback and Follow-Up: Provide timely feedback after interviews. A constructive feedback loop can leave a positive impression and encourage future applications even if a candidate is not selected.
- Enhance the Employer Brand: Showcase your company culture and values in your job postings and on your career site. A strong employer brand can attract and retain candidates.
- Use Data to Identify Issues: Analyze your recruitment data to understand when candidates drop off. This can help you pinpoint specific issues to address.
- Leverage Technology: Use recruitment software to automate and streamline parts of the hiring process. This can improve efficiency and candidate experience.
Additional Resources:
- Candidate Experience Best Practices
- Candidate Journey Map: What It Is & How to Create One
- The Importance of Candidate Engagement
- Hiring Hacks to Accelerate Your Recruitment Process
🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out 4 Corner Resources at https://www.4cornerresources.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/petenewsome?lang=en
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/
👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pete Newsome (00:00):
You're listening to the Hire Calling podcast,
your source for all thingshiring, staffing and recruiting.
I say recruiting.
Ricky Baez (00:11):
You know what.
Keep going, pete.
You are the expert ofrecruiting, please explain to
everybody what is a recruiting.
Pete Newsome (00:19):
I'm the recruiting master of today.
Barely, we're going to startagain, victor, here's where we
start.
You're listening to the HireCalling podcast, your source for
all things hiring, staffing andrecruiting.
I'm Pete Newsome, joined byRicky Baez.
Once again, ricky, how are youtoday?
Ricky Baez (00:36):
I am doing amazing Pete.
It has been raining in such adisrespectful way here in
Central Florida.
Pete Newsome (00:43):
It is not sunny Florida, right now and hasn't
been all week.
Ricky Baez (00:47):
It's Seattle.
Florida is what it is right now.
That's right.
That's how it feels, yeah.
Pete Newsome (00:51):
But let's talk about something that maybe can
brighten some days.
How about that?
That's awesome.
Yes, Recruiting.
Recruiting always brightenseveryone's day, especially when
it's done well.
That's what's most important.
One of the things that keepsrecruiting from being done well
at times is a high candidatedrop-off rate, which no one
likes.
Today, we're going to talkabout how to improve your
(01:13):
candidate drop-off rate.
Offer some tips, suggestions.
Turn that bad recruitingprocess around real quickly.
Ricky Baez (01:20):
Pete, what is this drop-off rate?
Because I don't know If arecruit is doing their job and
communicating what the job issupposed to be.
There should be no drop-offright.
Pete Newsome (01:30):
Well, there's a few other factors that come into
play, so why don't we start byjust describing what that is?
And it's basically the rate atwhich candidates drop from the
time they first apply to a jobuntil you've completed the
recruiting process.
And if that rate is high, thatmeans you should assess how
(01:51):
you're doing things and youprobably need to make a lot of
changes to your process.
Maybe not a lot, maybe just one, but we want to talk about the
common mistakes that are made,that, if you think about it, you
assess and apply a few changes,it can make a big difference in
your drop-off rate.
Ricky Baez (02:10):
And of course I was being facetious right as far as
the recruiter wanted to doeverything.
But you know what it is a goodindicator to pay attention to
right, Because there's a lot ofgood information in that
assessment that tells youwhether you're on the right
track or not.
On the right track, right, sofinding out why people drop off.
And if you find out that you'reable to affect or pull some
(02:33):
levers to change that for thebetter, it's the powers that are
going to be much happier andthe candidate is going to have a
much better experience becauseyou fine-tuned the entire
recruiting process to get theright candidate.
So definitely a good idea to do.
Pete Newsome (02:48):
And that's what it all comes down to with this
that candidate experience.
If it's positive, your drop-offrate is going to be very low,
which is the goal.
If it's negative, you'll getthe feedback one way or the
other, and the average drop-offrate is about somewhere between
10 and 20%.
Now, that's still pretty high,and what that means is almost
(03:10):
everyone has opportunities toimprove, some more than others.
Sometimes we see really highcandidate drop-off rates.
Now, I'm, of course, on thethird party side as a staffing
company, so a lot of times wehave to live with our clients'
process, so we often encouragethem to speed it up.
That's the biggest one, ricky,that I've seen is you take too
(03:35):
long.
You have too many interviews,you don't facilitate them
quickly enough and you just dragit out, and as someone who's
done this a long time, I trulybelieve time is a deal killer.
It kills deals and it willleave you wishing you had your
best candidates, because they'renot going to stay around if you
drag out the interview process.
Ricky Baez (03:55):
No, that's right, you know, especially because,
look, candidates, especiallythese days, pete, these days
candidates have options, waymore options than what they did
30 years ago.
I mean, one great example thatI use in class, like it's if I
work for corporate America rightnow Pete and I got fired today
and I have to make a quick, easysix on the bus this weekend.
(04:15):
Legally, I go to Uber, I go toUber Eats, I got to do all these
other things and this is whatrecruiters are competing with,
right, that sense ofindependence.
So, yeah, if you have a dropoff rate that keeps climbing,
right, you want to bring that aslow as possible to keep the
candidate, to keep the candidateas engaged as possible.
(04:35):
And then and there's a costassociated to do right, pete,
because the more people whoapply, who don't complete the
process, that's money down thedrain.
Pete Newsome (04:44):
Well, that's right .
You could waste a lot of timeand effort through that and
along the way you're hurtingyour business.
So we've talked recently on apodcast about the cost of an
open position and there's realcosts associated with that.
So go listen to our otherpodcast about it, go read our
blog about it.
So the cost of a vacancy ishurting your business and if
(05:07):
your drop off rate is high it'sgoing to keep that vacancy open
longer.
There's other costs, so thatone's easy to quantify.
But then there's some subtlethings like burnout among your
team, right, if you have aposition open and someone else
is having to pick up the load,the longer they're having to do
that for the worse it's going tofeel to that employee.
(05:29):
And then you may have a doubleproblem because if you don't
fill the position fast enough,your employee who's been
burdened with those tasks theymay be out the door next.
Ricky Baez (05:38):
Now you got two positions to fill, right, and
I'm glad you brought that upbecause this is important for a
recruiter to know, because therecruiter doesn't necessarily
feel that pain immediately.
You know who feels that painthe business partner, the boss,
the leader of that department,who is able, who manages that
work.
So the recruiter doesn't get tosee that.
(05:59):
It's a good idea for arecruiter to know that upfront.
That way it's just anotherincentive to make sure you're
taking a deeper dive into what'scausing these drop-off rates.
So 10 to 20%, right, so I'massuming.
So what is a perfect ratebesides zero?
Obviously right.
So what is an acceptable rateto you?
Pete Newsome (06:20):
I think, as close to zero as you can get right.
And if you have a drop-off atall, it's important to assess
what happened.
Sometimes it's unavoidable Ifyou are moving quickly but a
candidate who you are attractedto and want to try to hire for a
role is already interviewingelsewhere.
(06:41):
You may just be too late to theparty.
That's a reality of it.
But you want to assess your ownactions and your time frame and
compress it.
Let's talk about, before we getinto all of the different
reasons for a low drop-off rate,let's talk just a little bit
further about the negativeimplications of it.
(07:01):
We talked about employ morale.
Right, You're creating burnout,but it's also going to hurt
your brand in the market,because if you don't treat
candidates well in thatinterview process, they'll talk.
They'll talk to othercandidates, they will let them
know.
Now more than ever, I mean,spend a couple minutes on
LinkedIn.
You'll see that people aren'tshy about sharing their opinions
(07:24):
and experiences, good or bad.
Ricky Baez (07:26):
And it's not only that, it's not only whether they
get treated well or not.
There's even some things thatthe recruited is not necessarily
involved with personally thatcould affect the situation.
What if it's a disorganizedprocess?
What if it takes two hours toapply?
What if the job description hasno resemblance of what the real
job is like?
Yeah, there's a lot of thingsthe recruiter can fix to recruit
(07:49):
a level.
The recruiter that can pull tomake sure those things are off
that table.
Because, you're right, thesecandidates talk.
Recruiters talk as well, butcandidates do talk, especially
especially the ones that arehigh caliber.
Right, Because here's the thing, the higher the caliber of the
candidate, the lower thepatience.
(08:10):
That's what I've noticed, right, I don't know if you've noticed
that too.
Pete Newsome (08:14):
Sure, it comes down to simple supply and demand
, and the best candidates areacutely aware of their value in
the market.
And if you're someone who'sbeing let's be honest LeBron
James understands that everyteam wants him to play for them.
Well, at least he used to,maybe not he used to, yeah, not
anymore.
But if you're at the top ofyour game, you generally know it
(08:36):
.
And if and if and so thosecandidates who are probably the
ones that you do want the most,they're not going to have
patience or tolerance for alengthy process.
So there's other reasons Poorfollow up, poor communication,
lack of engagement from yourteam.
So, even if you think yourprocess is moving along quickly,
(08:56):
even if it is, objectively, youhave to engage with the
candidate along the way.
Can't leave them in the dark,because they will assume the
worst every time.
Ricky Baez (09:07):
And Pete, it's like a relationship, right?
If you're looking to call, youknow to call out that one person
to go out on a date.
The first date goes well,second date goes even well.
You can't go too much timewithout calling that person,
right, Because the person'sgoing to think they're not
interested.
Then guess what, If you, as arecruiter, do not engage with
that candidate in between theprocess, they are going to think
(09:29):
the worst.
They're going to think they'renot interested.
And you know who they're goingto gravitate to that one
recruiting organization thatdoes everything right, that
talks to them, that keeps incontact with them, right?
That's who they're going togravitate to.
So the whole idea and I knowyou didn't say this, Pete, but I
know the whole ideal of anorganization to have this, this
(09:52):
energy, to have this, and thereI say an attitude that
candidates should be happy thatthis opportunity exists and they
should buy down to theopportunity.
That was 30 years ago.
These days, I think, I thinkthe tables have turned.
Was it in the office?
Or was it Michael Scott whosays, oh, how the turn tables
turn?
(10:12):
I'm going to see in the office.
Sorry, it's squirrel.
It's squirrel moment for me.
Pete Newsome (10:18):
Well, you're right that tolerance is low and you
have to treat candidates the wayyou'd want to be treated, Of
course.
So, even if speed isn'tpossible and we have a client
who we've worked with for a longtime who told us upfront our
interview process takes a month-Wow.
A month.
As a third party recruiter,your eyes glaze over when you
(10:40):
hear a month, because you may aswell say a year.
Ricky Baez (10:44):
But here's the reality of it.
Pete Newsome (10:46):
As long as we're able to communicate effectively
and be consistent about what wesay we're going to do, that can
be okay.
Now, the reality is you willlose some of the best candidates
who aren't able or willing towait a long time.
But it's going to make asignificant difference if you
set the stage appropriately,upfront and say Ricky, here's
(11:08):
our process, here's how long ittakes, and it's going to be two
weeks, three weeks, even fourweeks, until we realistically
can get to the finish line.
Are you okay with that?
So people just want to betreated again the way, the same
way.
Treat others the way you wantto be treated.
It's so simple.
(11:29):
It is Ask them.
Ask them Are you, is thisacceptable to you?
If not, I understand.
I have to understand.
But if I don't ask or I keep myhead in the stand with that,
that's how I'm going to end upbeing disappointed and spending
a lot of time on a candidate whowas never going to be there by
(11:49):
the time we made the hiringdecision anyway.
Ricky Baez (11:52):
I always tell all of my students, pete and I've said
this on this program in thepast you was the best way for
you to communicate the entireprocess to a candidate.
You, as a recruiter, have to bethe candidate's GPS.
You have to lay down that mapand let them know exactly what
they go into.
Respect, because, look, I'vebeen there on the candidate side
.
There's nothing worse thangoing to interview one and then
(12:13):
you knock it out of the park andthen interview two and then you
knock that one out of the parkand you're thinking, all right,
there's no more interviews.
This is it.
I am going to get the call.
The next call is going to bethat I'm hired, and then the
recruiter calls me.
They're excited, ricky, guesswhat?
Am I getting the job?
No, you're going to a thirdinterview.
Right, it's that unexpectedstuff that this organization
(12:34):
that just leaves a bad taste inmy mouth as a candidate.
So, yes, be the candidate's GPS.
Let them know exactly whatthey're going to expect, because
, look, nobody is going to bedisappointed by a surprise when
there are no surprises.
Pete Newsome (12:49):
They know what to expect.
That's right.
We don't want surprises.
That's a perfect way to phraseit.
And on that point, the lastthing I'll say about setting the
stage or reasons why there'soften a high drop off rate, is
when the job description doesn'tmatch the actual role that
you're going to be interviewingfor.
And what happens if therecruiter doesn't fully
(13:10):
understand that upfront they mayscreen candidates, they may
pass them through to the hiringmanager, who is intimately aware
of the details and is the onemaking the hiring decision.
And if you're just relying on astandard job description for
that that hasn't been looked atin five years, 10 years and we
know those exist out there thenit may not accurately resemble
(13:32):
the job, it may not even closelyresemble the job, and that's a
great way to have high candidatedrop off.
So always start with a thoroughunderstanding of what the
hiring need really is, then gofrom there, then start accepting
applications.
But if you get that wrong onthe front end, you're screwed
from the start.
Ricky Baez (13:50):
So here's a bonus pro tip.
So, recruiters, if a businesspartner comes to you and says,
hey, I need to open arequisition for this position,
you pull that job description.
And that job description is 15years old.
You need to have a separateconversation about updating it.
You have to need to.
It's got to be updated beforeyou recruit, because if you
(14:11):
recruit with that and you tellthe candidate, ah, that's that,
that's outdated, we'll updatethat later.
Red flag from a candidate'sperspective.
Right, absolutely yeah, so youmight want to.
It's a good idea for anything.
Just five years, that's aboutright.
Right, but 15 years ago myFacebook wasn't invented.
Pete Newsome (14:32):
Then, right, and I can be an eternity right.
Did your did your job?
Did your job descriptionreflect your Change in working
habits and working conditions?
If it's hybrid, define thatclearly.
We see a lot of that.
We see a remote roles post.
I see this as a constantcomplaint.
Anyway, I don't.
(14:53):
We don't deal with this withour clients, of course, but
Because we ask the questions.
That's why we don't.
We don't suffer theseconsequences if we see the job
is remote, hopefully, my team isalways asking is it fully
remote?
Do you ever have to come in theoffice?
Because we'll we'll seecompanies pull a fast one at
(15:13):
times.
Again, we don't work with thesecompanies because it would be.
It would not be a goodsituation at the end where they
Advertise a remote job but youhave to come in the office once
a month Right now, remote, itremotes, remote.
Ricky Baez (15:29):
It's remote the other times of the month.
Pete Newsome (15:34):
Mostly remote, call it hybrid.
Define exactly what theexpectations are on a hybrid
role and you'll hopefullyreceive a lot fewer applicants
who aren't a good fit or whowouldn't want to stay involved
in the process.
So I Get why you'd say, hey, afive-year job description may
still be relevant.
I say start from scratch everytime, at least to the point
(15:57):
where you assess it, reconfirmyes.
This is still a Plot applicabletoday, as it was six months ago
when we hired for this role.
The world's changing prettyrapidly right now.
So our needs in the, in the, inthe workforce and in the
technology world, where we spenda lot of our recruiting time
Well, it's changing almost everyday right now.
Ricky Baez (16:19):
So don't take anything for granted when you're
, when you're looking at an oldjob description and assume
there's changes agreed a hundrednow and now some business
leaders are like, wow, everytime, every time we have to,
because you are gonna have somebusiness leader like it's been
five years, we don't have to dothis every time.
Invest the time and effort,folks.
The time and effort you investand to make you sure this is
(16:42):
right at the beginning Wouldyield much better sustainable
resource.
Or see it.
So put in the elbow grease nowit works, trust me.
Pete Newsome (16:50):
So we've talked around all the issues on why you
may have a bad Low.
Can it drop off?
Let's make sure we we get tothe the good part, which is what
you can do about it.
And the good news is mostcompanies, most organizations,
can just make a few tweaks andhave an entirely different
outcome.
So let's focus on those.
So, as we started we're talkingabout, we'll go back to it
(17:13):
speed up your process.
That's right.
Speed up your process, whateverit is.
Today, if you're satisfied withyour drop-off rate, if that is
something you do not consider tobe a problem, no one's Upset
your hiring camps quickly.
Your morale is great.
You're not Putting the burdenof an empty job on someone
(17:35):
else's plate While they'rehaving to cover two roles.
If you can look at all that andsay we're good, then you don't
need to speed up your interviewprocess.
But if you can't check all ofthose boxes, start with the
timeline and odds areImprovement there will make a
big difference and folks justremember.
Ricky Baez (17:53):
Remember, because I know, I know, I know what people
are thinking right now.
They're like what?
You know?
What, ricky, we got to makesure we get it right.
I, I get it.
I understand you want to makesure you get everything right,
but here's the reality of thesituation.
Nine times that it in thatcandidate out there looking for
a job.
They need that job, they'reneat, they need to find
(18:13):
something and if you're takingyour time with your process and
somebody else is more efficientand it's quicker, then you're
done.
You're done.
Do not underestimate the senseof urgency on the candidates's
behalf, and especially thehigher caliber they are, the
more choices they have andthey're not gonna go with the
unorganized one.
Pete Newsome (18:33):
Right, so I'll know it.
Ricky Baez (18:35):
Make sure they.
Of course they won't know it.
You know who's not gonna care,the people who don't have a shot
anywhere else.
Pete Newsome (18:41):
They're not gonna care.
It sounds harsh, but it's true.
We have to be realistic aboutthis.
So how can you speed it up?
Well, internal communicationand buy off that.
There's a problem, because ifyou don't acknowledge that,
you're probably not going to beMotivated to make changes.
So that's step one getting thebuy-in at the top.
Whoever all the decision-makersare, to say, we need to fix
(19:04):
this, that means your internalinterview team needs to be
accessible, they need to becommitted to it, they need to be
aware that it's important, andthen you know you need to buy in
.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So the next thing you could dois look at what is your
application process.
Is it confusing?
Is it lengthy?
What if you're losingcandidates right up off the,
(19:27):
from the jump, because they lookat it and say, yeah, this is
too much work, I don't want todo it?
Ricky Baez (19:33):
The folks.
An application process shouldnot require an engineering
degree or you to be a rocketscientist to complete it.
I shouldn't have to ask a weekoff of work for me to complete
the application process.
And look and I think you and Ihave had conversations about
this because in my previous jobit's over at a big call center
(19:54):
here in Central Florida we hadan issue where 90% of the people
that applied would not finishthe application process and it
drove me nuts.
I started looking into it.
The application was an hour anda half long because it was the
it was.
You had to submit a resume, youhave to fill everything
manually.
There was a personality test,there's other tests and there's
(20:16):
other tests and by the timeyou're done, the person it's
like you know what?
I'll just be homeless, I'm done.
Pete Newsome (20:23):
I'm not going to work.
Ricky Baez (20:24):
I'm good.
Just you've got to be able totake a look at those things.
And if you have an applicanttracking system right now, folks
, if you don't know how to use,they find your nearest local HR
I mean, I'm IT person they'llshow you how to pull a query.
You can pull it in easy.
Whether it's people solve,whether it's TAS, whatever the
case may be, there's a querythat says that shows you
(20:47):
application completion rates.
That's an important thing totake a look at, right.
And if you see that you want tomake the application process as
short as possible, now you have.
Now you said before Pete thatan application should not be too
easy.
Neither right.
Pete Newsome (21:06):
Well, that's its own challenge these days is the
one click apply that's become soprevalent.
If you make it too easy, I'lltell you what I prefer in this
is let everyone apply on thefront end, but before you engage
directly with a candidate, ifit's a high volume role.
So I tend to think ofrecruiting in two buckets and
(21:27):
now this is a very broad,general statement that's much
more nuanced than this.
But there's high volumepositions that if you put it at
job posting out there, you willget hundreds or thousands of
applicants.
That's one thing.
And there's other positionsthat are more niche, higher
level, whatever they might be.
There's a smaller candidatepool where you may struggle to
get out any applicants at all.
(21:48):
So what we're talking abouthere.
So in that latter scenario, youwant to make it as easy to
apply as possible.
One click is okay.
If you're looking for the guywho's going to send people to
Mars, right, and that engineerwho can build that rocket, well,
you better take anyone who'squalified and thoroughly vet
(22:10):
them right.
You're not going to have toomany candidates, but as you go
into the broader candidate pool,that's where possible.
I think you can let peopleapply initially but then give
them questions to answer, tofurther self-select that they're
qualified for the role.
Because we know that peoplejust blindly apply If it looks
(22:33):
close, if it has a job title, ifit has a few keywords on it
that cause that job descriptionto come up in their search on
LinkedIn or on Indeed.
They're going to click andthink, well, I have no, I'm
going to miss 100% of the shots.
I don't take right the WayneGreski quote, so I may as well
apply.
(22:53):
Well, that's great for thecandidates.
That's a little flawed thinking, in my opinion.
That's a different show, but itputs a big burden on the
recruiting team, who has to sortthrough all of these
unqualified candidates.
So what I like to do is send anauto reply to those candidates
and say thank you for yourapplication.
Please confirm the followingyou have this degree, if it's
(23:16):
required.
You have this skill set, ifit's required.
You're within this geographicdistance, if that's part of it.
So there's ways to mitigatethat volume and take advantage
of technology.
That's my advice there.
That's a bit of a differentshow, but you can take advantage
(23:36):
of the systems and tools thatyou have to create more
efficiency and ultimatelycommunicate better with your
candidates.
Ricky Baez (23:43):
That's right.
And then, going back tosomething we said a little bit
earlier, but I believe it reallydeserves a little bit more
airtime is how many interviews.
You said it and you harped onit.
It's minimized the time ittakes to interview.
Now I get it from a recruitersperspective, from a hiring
authorities perspective.
You want to make sure that theymeet the right people and you
(24:04):
get the right information rightthere in front of you.
But if you got six interviews,one person goes through six.
I don't know what you're goingto get out of that person
Interview number six that youcouldn't get out of, interview
number three.
So if you're ended up, if youget into a point when you have
five, six interviews, either youdon't have the right person or
you don't have the right process.
(24:24):
Either one of those two optionsare not good for you.
So, yes, go back, make surethat you are as concise as
possible.
I know we talked about it, butI'm really big on that one.
Pete Newsome (24:35):
Well, it's a signal to the candidate that
you're not that motivated tofill the role and not subtle.
But candidates will feel thatwe all know what it's like when
someone chooses.
If someone tells you I don'thave time for this, what they
meant is they're not willing toprioritize that thing.
And so if you can't get anotherinterview scheduled for a week
(24:59):
because your internal team istoo busy, what that simply means
is they have differentpriorities and candidates will
pick up on that.
So to the point you madeearlier the bad ones will stick
around.
The good ones will bail.
That's right, because theydon't want to be part of that.
So they don't have to be right.
Not if they have a valuableskill set, that's right.
Go communicate internally,communicate externally.
(25:21):
Let the candidates know wherethey are in the process.
We talked earlier about settingthe stage up front, but that's
not enough.
You have to stay engaged withthem along the way and say all
right, ricky, great jobinterviewing today.
Here's the next step.
Always follow up with that andthen put a timeframe on it.
And if you can't commit todoing that, that's when you have
(25:45):
to look internally and be alittle more introspective and
say why can't I commit to it.
Why can't I give you atimeframe on that follow up?
Well, let's go back topriorities.
It's because your organizationhasn't deemed that important
enough.
So all of this improvement hasto start with the realization
that there's a problem and thatthere's something you can do
(26:07):
about it.
Ricky Baez (26:08):
There's a part in the hiring process that I like
to call the dead period right.
There's a period of time whereit's crucial to become in line.
Pete Newsome (26:20):
That's scared me.
I never knew that.
Ricky Baez (26:23):
I was not expecting it.
So, yeah, there's a dead period, and the dead period is after
the candidate accepts the offerand before they start new
employee orientation, which isat least two weeks.
Folks, this is the time whenyou have to engage with them the
most okay.
Do not forget about them.
If you make them an offer andthey accept it and you don't
(26:46):
talk to them again for 14 days,you are increasing the chances
of you to being ghosted by newemployee orientation.
That's the dead period.
Do not forget about them.
Reach out to them, let themknow what they can expect.
Send them some videos about theorganization.
Here's what Darden restaurantdid to me when I started working
with them many years ago.
And that dead period they now.
(27:08):
First of all, they interviewedme like five times.
That's where I got my idea.
But after each interview theygave me a $50 gift card to the
Olive Garden right.
Each and every time I had like300 bucks worth right and I told
them at the end of the week.
Pete Newsome (27:24):
That's where you're okay with the multiple
interviews 20, I don't care.
Ricky Baez (27:28):
20 interviews, right .
But I told them, I told thehiring authority.
At the end I'm like, look, Igot all these gift cards.
So, depending what you tell me,either I'm gonna use it to
celebrate my new job or cry inmy sorrows.
Either way, I'm going to theOlive Garden.
Pete Newsome (27:42):
Well it's, but that's such an important thing.
If they're going to have adrawn out interview process,
they're making you feel betterabout it.
Employer branding is a hugecomponent of this.
You want to keep that high.
So, even if it, like you said,it doesn't work out for you, you
have a positive recollection ofthat and you're gonna speak
well of that organization.
And the other thing thatthey're doing which I'm glad you
(28:05):
brought it up for this reasonis that we see a lot of
companies wanting candidates tojump through hoops to do
projects, to do assignments.
Sometimes they're lengthy.
If you're gonna ask forsomeone's professional time, you
should compensate them for it.
Pay them, yeah, for it.
Ricky Baez (28:22):
That's a pain.
I mean I got paid to food, butI mean they get paid to food,
but you know what that'smeaningful.
Pete Newsome (28:28):
It's meaningful, it's real dollars and that's you
know.
Go into their restaurants.
Ricky Baez (28:32):
That's a great thing to do, and here's the part that
I really loved right In thatdead period they sent me a
questionnaire to see what I like, what I didn't like that way
for new employer orientation.
They have my Reese's peanutbutter cups they're waiting, my
Diet Coke waiting.
They send me glasses to myhouse.
They were courting me, man.
I felt like they were askingfor a date after I kept telling
(28:52):
them no.
But that's how you do it.
That is how you keep peopleengaged.
And, pete, that was 12 yearsago.
12 years later, I'm stilltalking about it.
So what does that tell you?
Pete Newsome (29:03):
What a perfect example.
But this is a top employer, agreat organization, and no
surprise that they're doingthings like that.
So good lesson for others.
So I think we've covered theground that we needed to cover
here, ricky, but let's justrecap the best practices,
because, as always when we talk,we don't necessarily stay in a
(29:24):
straight line with ourconversations.
Ricky Baez (29:27):
I know it's hard to believe.
Pete Newsome (29:28):
So best practices to avoid a can't drop off, let's
go one at a time.
We'll trade about the first one.
Speed up your interview process, don't let it drag out.
That's my first one.
What's next?
Ricky Baez (29:40):
Communicate, communicate, communicate,
overcommunicate.
Tell them, make them say OK,ricky, I got it.
I know what's going to happennext.
You will have so much betterresults if you overcommunicate,
whereas the exact opposite Ifyou undercommunicate a little
bit, that could create a bigissue for your branding.
Pete Newsome (29:59):
Next one take advantage of technology, the
tools that you've paid for.
Make sure you're using them.
That will help you increaseefficiency and it will also help
you stay in touch withcandidates, help your engagement
and communication along the way.
So leverage your technology.
Ricky Baez (30:15):
Here's a pro tip.
So now we've been talking aboutthe people who got the job.
What's your communication withthe people who didn't get the
job, your final three, yourfinal three?
What are you going to do withthose two people who didn't get
the job?
Here's what you do.
If you got three finalcandidates for one job and one
person got it, obviously thatone person to be employed, you
(30:36):
are not responsible for makingthose other two people who
didn't get the job and make amarketing ambassador for your
organization.
That's why you respond.
And what does that mean?
That means that you treat themso well that when they go home
at night and they're havingdinner with a significant other,
like, did you get that job?
No, but let me tell you I'mgoing back because I didn't get
it, and here's how they treatedme.
(30:56):
If I didn't get the job, couldyou imagine how to treat
employees?
It sends a message about whoyou are as an organization.
Don't skip on that part.
Pete Newsome (31:06):
No, pay attention to your employer brand.
That's a big one.
That is something thatorganizations need to do.
Social media being what it is,the word will get out.
It's a lot faster and easierfor the word to get out today
than it was in the pre-socialmedia days.
So if you haven't changed yourapproach there and, as we talked
(31:29):
about earlier, if you stillthink you hold all the cards in
this process, you need to updateyour thinking.
You need to catch up to moderntimes and then act accordingly.
That's right, is that it?
Yeah, there's one more.
This is probably the mostimportant thing that I could
speak to on the topic of acompany and improving their
(31:50):
candidate drop-off is commit toit as an organization.
So what I mean by that is, as Isaid earlier, but it's worth
restating acknowledge that youhave a problem.
That is step one.
Commit to solving that problem,which is, hopefully we've done
a good job of explaining today.
There aren't that many changes.
(32:10):
They're relatively minorchanges.
They're significant in theimpact they'll have.
But you don't have to reinventthe wheel to do this and then
make sure everyone in theorganization who's involved has
bought in.
Even if they don't want to,they need to act as if they're
bought in because otherwiseyou're going to lose candidates
you want and it's just going toend up with a bad outcome at the
(32:35):
end.
So a lot of things you can do.
Most of them are minor.
The impact from each of themcan be huge.
Ricky Baez (32:41):
That's right.
And again, that last one iscrucial, because one of the
things that I worried about themost is going out there,
recruiting and then selling theidea of coming to work only to
bring them in, and that's notreflected back at the office and
now I'm like a liar, so thatthat thing is probably not.
Sorry For those of you notwatching.
(33:03):
There's this little things Ibring up boys 2023.
I bring up a thumbs up, andthere's AI all kinds of little
cartoons on the screen with yousee, the video is actually
pretty.
Pete Newsome (33:12):
That's what I was thinking.
Ai is taken over, even evenwhen you don't want it to be
2023.
Ricky Baez (33:18):
I'm thinking we're already have flying cars.
No, we don't have that, but wegot little emojis on zoom.
Pete Newsome (33:24):
We have cartoon emojis and we don't know how to
turn them off.
Perfect.
Well, if you've listened thisfar, hopefully enjoyed Ricky's
cartoon emoji that just poppedup.
If not, and you're listening,this is a great reason.
Oh, perfect, more Now you have.
Ricky Baez (33:38):
I got to confirm you all over.
Pete Newsome (33:40):
Great, well, perfect reason and excuse to go
on YouTube and watch the videothere, or go to our
4cornerresources.
com at com and navigate to ourblog section.
You can see the video and, ifyou have questions, as always,
email us hire calling, hirecalling at 4cornerresources.
com We'd love your input and asuggestion for topics.
(34:02):
So, ricky, I think that's it.
Ricky Baez (34:03):
I think that's it.
We, uh, we are able to end thiswithout a famous phrase, and
I'm not going to say it.
Pete Newsome (34:08):
Let's just say good night.
We have to listen to other onesto go see that, so goodbye for
now.
Thanks for listening.
Have a good one, bye.
You're listening to the Hire Calling podcast,
your source for all thingshiring, staffing and recruiting.
I say recruiting.
Ricky Baez (00:11):
You know what.
Keep going, pete.
You are the expert ofrecruiting, please explain to
everybody what is a recruiting.
Pete Newsome (00:19):
I'm the recruiting master of today.
Barely, we're going to startagain, victor, here's where we
start.
You're listening to the HireCalling podcast, your source for
all things hiring, staffing andrecruiting.
I'm Pete Newsome, joined byRicky Baez.
Once again, ricky, how are youtoday?
Ricky Baez (00:36):
I am doing amazing Pete.
It has been raining in such adisrespectful way here in
Central Florida.
Pete Newsome (00:43):
It is not sunny Florida, right now and hasn't
been all week.
Ricky Baez (00:47):
It's Seattle.
Florida is what it is right now.
That's right.
That's how it feels, yeah.
Pete Newsome (00:51):
But let's talk about something that maybe can
brighten some days.
How about that?
That's awesome.
Yes, Recruiting.
Recruiting always brightenseveryone's day, especially when
it's done well.
That's what's most important.
One of the things that keepsrecruiting from being done well
at times is a high candidatedrop-off rate, which no one
likes.
Today, we're going to talkabout how to improve your
(01:13):
candidate drop-off rate.
Offer some tips, suggestions.
Turn that bad recruitingprocess around real quickly.
Ricky Baez (01:20):
Pete, what is this drop-off rate?
Because I don't know If arecruit is doing their job and
communicating what the job issupposed to be.
There should be no drop-offright.
Pete Newsome (01:30):
Well, there's a few other factors that come into
play, so why don't we start byjust describing what that is?
And it's basically the rate atwhich candidates drop from the
time they first apply to a jobuntil you've completed the
recruiting process.
And if that rate is high, thatmeans you should assess how
(01:51):
you're doing things and youprobably need to make a lot of
changes to your process.
Maybe not a lot, maybe just one, but we want to talk about the
common mistakes that are made,that, if you think about it, you
assess and apply a few changes,it can make a big difference in
your drop-off rate.
Ricky Baez (02:10):
And of course I was being facetious right as far as
the recruiter wanted to doeverything.
But you know what it is a goodindicator to pay attention to
right, Because there's a lot ofgood information in that
assessment that tells youwhether you're on the right
track or not.
On the right track, right, sofinding out why people drop off.
And if you find out that you'reable to affect or pull some
(02:33):
levers to change that for thebetter, it's the powers that are
going to be much happier andthe candidate is going to have a
much better experience becauseyou fine-tuned the entire
recruiting process to get theright candidate.
So definitely a good idea to do.
Pete Newsome (02:48):
And that's what it all comes down to with this
that candidate experience.
If it's positive, your drop-offrate is going to be very low,
which is the goal.
If it's negative, you'll getthe feedback one way or the
other, and the average drop-offrate is about somewhere between
10 and 20%.
Now, that's still pretty high,and what that means is almost
(03:10):
everyone has opportunities toimprove, some more than others.
Sometimes we see really highcandidate drop-off rates.
Now, I'm, of course, on thethird party side as a staffing
company, so a lot of times wehave to live with our clients'
process, so we often encouragethem to speed it up.
That's the biggest one, ricky,that I've seen is you take too
(03:35):
long.
You have too many interviews,you don't facilitate them
quickly enough and you just dragit out, and as someone who's
done this a long time, I trulybelieve time is a deal killer.
It kills deals and it willleave you wishing you had your
best candidates, because they'renot going to stay around if you
drag out the interview process.
Ricky Baez (03:55):
No, that's right, you know, especially because,
look, candidates, especiallythese days, pete, these days
candidates have options, waymore options than what they did
30 years ago.
I mean, one great example thatI use in class, like it's if I
work for corporate America rightnow Pete and I got fired today
and I have to make a quick, easysix on the bus this weekend.
(04:15):
Legally, I go to Uber, I go toUber Eats, I got to do all these
other things and this is whatrecruiters are competing with,
right, that sense ofindependence.
So, yeah, if you have a dropoff rate that keeps climbing,
right, you want to bring that aslow as possible to keep the
candidate, to keep the candidateas engaged as possible.
(04:35):
And then and there's a costassociated to do right, pete,
because the more people whoapply, who don't complete the
process, that's money down thedrain.
Pete Newsome (04:44):
Well, that's right .
You could waste a lot of timeand effort through that and
along the way you're hurtingyour business.
So we've talked recently on apodcast about the cost of an
open position and there's realcosts associated with that.
So go listen to our otherpodcast about it, go read our
blog about it.
So the cost of a vacancy ishurting your business and if
(05:07):
your drop off rate is high it'sgoing to keep that vacancy open
longer.
There's other costs, so thatone's easy to quantify.
But then there's some subtlethings like burnout among your
team, right, if you have aposition open and someone else
is having to pick up the load,the longer they're having to do
that for the worse it's going tofeel to that employee.
(05:29):
And then you may have a doubleproblem because if you don't
fill the position fast enough,your employee who's been
burdened with those tasks theymay be out the door next.
Ricky Baez (05:38):
Now you got two positions to fill, right, and
I'm glad you brought that upbecause this is important for a
recruiter to know, because therecruiter doesn't necessarily
feel that pain immediately.
You know who feels that painthe business partner, the boss,
the leader of that department,who is able, who manages that
work.
So the recruiter doesn't get tosee that.
(05:59):
It's a good idea for arecruiter to know that upfront.
That way it's just anotherincentive to make sure you're
taking a deeper dive into what'scausing these drop-off rates.
So 10 to 20%, right, so I'massuming.
So what is a perfect ratebesides zero?
Obviously right.
So what is an acceptable rateto you?
Pete Newsome (06:20):
I think, as close to zero as you can get right.
And if you have a drop-off atall, it's important to assess
what happened.
Sometimes it's unavoidable Ifyou are moving quickly but a
candidate who you are attractedto and want to try to hire for a
role is already interviewingelsewhere.
(06:41):
You may just be too late to theparty.
That's a reality of it.
But you want to assess your ownactions and your time frame and
compress it.
Let's talk about, before we getinto all of the different
reasons for a low drop-off rate,let's talk just a little bit
further about the negativeimplications of it.
(07:01):
We talked about employ morale.
Right, You're creating burnout,but it's also going to hurt
your brand in the market,because if you don't treat
candidates well in thatinterview process, they'll talk.
They'll talk to othercandidates, they will let them
know.
Now more than ever, I mean,spend a couple minutes on
LinkedIn.
You'll see that people aren'tshy about sharing their opinions
(07:24):
and experiences, good or bad.
Ricky Baez (07:26):
And it's not only that, it's not only whether they
get treated well or not.
There's even some things thatthe recruited is not necessarily
involved with personally thatcould affect the situation.
What if it's a disorganizedprocess?
What if it takes two hours toapply?
What if the job description hasno resemblance of what the real
job is like?
Yeah, there's a lot of thingsthe recruiter can fix to recruit
(07:49):
a level.
The recruiter that can pull tomake sure those things are off
that table.
Because, you're right, thesecandidates talk.
Recruiters talk as well, butcandidates do talk, especially
especially the ones that arehigh caliber.
Right, Because here's the thing, the higher the caliber of the
candidate, the lower thepatience.
(08:10):
That's what I've noticed, right, I don't know if you've noticed
that too.
Pete Newsome (08:14):
Sure, it comes down to simple supply and demand
, and the best candidates areacutely aware of their value in
the market.
And if you're someone who'sbeing let's be honest LeBron
James understands that everyteam wants him to play for them.
Well, at least he used to,maybe not he used to, yeah, not
anymore.
But if you're at the top ofyour game, you generally know it
(08:36):
.
And if and if and so thosecandidates who are probably the
ones that you do want the most,they're not going to have
patience or tolerance for alengthy process.
So there's other reasons Poorfollow up, poor communication,
lack of engagement from yourteam.
So, even if you think yourprocess is moving along quickly,
(08:56):
even if it is, objectively, youhave to engage with the
candidate along the way.
Can't leave them in the dark,because they will assume the
worst every time.
Ricky Baez (09:07):
And Pete, it's like a relationship, right?
If you're looking to call, youknow to call out that one person
to go out on a date.
The first date goes well,second date goes even well.
You can't go too much timewithout calling that person,
right, Because the person'sgoing to think they're not
interested.
Then guess what, If you, as arecruiter, do not engage with
that candidate in between theprocess, they are going to think
(09:29):
the worst.
They're going to think they'renot interested.
And you know who they're goingto gravitate to that one
recruiting organization thatdoes everything right, that
talks to them, that keeps incontact with them, right?
That's who they're going togravitate to.
So the whole idea and I knowyou didn't say this, Pete, but I
know the whole ideal of anorganization to have this, this
(09:52):
energy, to have this, and thereI say an attitude that
candidates should be happy thatthis opportunity exists and they
should buy down to theopportunity.
That was 30 years ago.
These days, I think, I thinkthe tables have turned.
Was it in the office?
Or was it Michael Scott whosays, oh, how the turn tables
turn?
(10:12):
I'm going to see in the office.
Sorry, it's squirrel.
It's squirrel moment for me.
Pete Newsome (10:18):
Well, you're right that tolerance is low and you
have to treat candidates the wayyou'd want to be treated, Of
course.
So, even if speed isn'tpossible and we have a client
who we've worked with for a longtime who told us upfront our
interview process takes a month-Wow.
A month.
As a third party recruiter,your eyes glaze over when you
(10:40):
hear a month, because you may aswell say a year.
Ricky Baez (10:44):
But here's the reality of it.
Pete Newsome (10:46):
As long as we're able to communicate effectively
and be consistent about what wesay we're going to do, that can
be okay.
Now, the reality is you willlose some of the best candidates
who aren't able or willing towait a long time.
But it's going to make asignificant difference if you
set the stage appropriately,upfront and say Ricky, here's
(11:08):
our process, here's how long ittakes, and it's going to be two
weeks, three weeks, even fourweeks, until we realistically
can get to the finish line.
Are you okay with that?
So people just want to betreated again the way, the same
way.
Treat others the way you wantto be treated.
It's so simple.
(11:29):
It is Ask them.
Ask them Are you, is thisacceptable to you?
If not, I understand.
I have to understand.
But if I don't ask or I keep myhead in the stand with that,
that's how I'm going to end upbeing disappointed and spending
a lot of time on a candidate whowas never going to be there by
(11:49):
the time we made the hiringdecision anyway.
Ricky Baez (11:52):
I always tell all of my students, pete and I've said
this on this program in thepast you was the best way for
you to communicate the entireprocess to a candidate.
You, as a recruiter, have to bethe candidate's GPS.
You have to lay down that mapand let them know exactly what
they go into.
Respect, because, look, I'vebeen there on the candidate side
.
There's nothing worse thangoing to interview one and then
(12:13):
you knock it out of the park andthen interview two and then you
knock that one out of the parkand you're thinking, all right,
there's no more interviews.
This is it.
I am going to get the call.
The next call is going to bethat I'm hired, and then the
recruiter calls me.
They're excited, ricky, guesswhat?
Am I getting the job?
No, you're going to a thirdinterview.
Right, it's that unexpectedstuff that this organization
(12:34):
that just leaves a bad taste inmy mouth as a candidate.
So, yes, be the candidate's GPS.
Let them know exactly whatthey're going to expect, because
, look, nobody is going to bedisappointed by a surprise when
there are no surprises.
Pete Newsome (12:49):
They know what to expect.
That's right.
We don't want surprises.
That's a perfect way to phraseit.
And on that point, the lastthing I'll say about setting the
stage or reasons why there'soften a high drop off rate, is
when the job description doesn'tmatch the actual role that
you're going to be interviewingfor.
And what happens if therecruiter doesn't fully
(13:10):
understand that upfront they mayscreen candidates, they may
pass them through to the hiringmanager, who is intimately aware
of the details and is the onemaking the hiring decision.
And if you're just relying on astandard job description for
that that hasn't been looked atin five years, 10 years and we
know those exist out there thenit may not accurately resemble
(13:32):
the job, it may not even closelyresemble the job, and that's a
great way to have high candidatedrop off.
So always start with a thoroughunderstanding of what the
hiring need really is, then gofrom there, then start accepting
applications.
But if you get that wrong onthe front end, you're screwed
from the start.
Ricky Baez (13:50):
So here's a bonus pro tip.
So, recruiters, if a businesspartner comes to you and says,
hey, I need to open arequisition for this position,
you pull that job description.
And that job description is 15years old.
You need to have a separateconversation about updating it.
You have to need to.
It's got to be updated beforeyou recruit, because if you
(14:11):
recruit with that and you tellthe candidate, ah, that's that,
that's outdated, we'll updatethat later.
Red flag from a candidate'sperspective.
Right, absolutely yeah, so youmight want to.
It's a good idea for anything.
Just five years, that's aboutright.
Right, but 15 years ago myFacebook wasn't invented.
Pete Newsome (14:32):
Then, right, and I can be an eternity right.
Did your did your job?
Did your job descriptionreflect your Change in working
habits and working conditions?
If it's hybrid, define thatclearly.
We see a lot of that.
We see a remote roles post.
I see this as a constantcomplaint.
Anyway, I don't.
(14:53):
We don't deal with this withour clients, of course, but
Because we ask the questions.
That's why we don't.
We don't suffer theseconsequences if we see the job
is remote, hopefully, my team isalways asking is it fully
remote?
Do you ever have to come in theoffice?
Because we'll we'll seecompanies pull a fast one at
(15:13):
times.
Again, we don't work with thesecompanies because it would be.
It would not be a goodsituation at the end where they
Advertise a remote job but youhave to come in the office once
a month Right now, remote, itremotes, remote.
Ricky Baez (15:29):
It's remote the other times of the month.
Pete Newsome (15:34):
Mostly remote, call it hybrid.
Define exactly what theexpectations are on a hybrid
role and you'll hopefullyreceive a lot fewer applicants
who aren't a good fit or whowouldn't want to stay involved
in the process.
So I Get why you'd say, hey, afive-year job description may
still be relevant.
I say start from scratch everytime, at least to the point
(15:57):
where you assess it, reconfirmyes.
This is still a Plot applicabletoday, as it was six months ago
when we hired for this role.
The world's changing prettyrapidly right now.
So our needs in the, in the, inthe workforce and in the
technology world, where we spenda lot of our recruiting time
Well, it's changing almost everyday right now.
Ricky Baez (16:19):
So don't take anything for granted when you're
, when you're looking at an oldjob description and assume
there's changes agreed a hundrednow and now some business
leaders are like, wow, everytime, every time we have to,
because you are gonna have somebusiness leader like it's been
five years, we don't have to dothis every time.
Invest the time and effort,folks.
The time and effort you investand to make you sure this is
(16:42):
right at the beginning Wouldyield much better sustainable
resource.
Or see it.
So put in the elbow grease nowit works, trust me.
Pete Newsome (16:50):
So we've talked around all the issues on why you
may have a bad Low.
Can it drop off?
Let's make sure we we get tothe the good part, which is what
you can do about it.
And the good news is mostcompanies, most organizations,
can just make a few tweaks andhave an entirely different
outcome.
So let's focus on those.
So, as we started we're talkingabout, we'll go back to it
(17:13):
speed up your process.
That's right.
Speed up your process, whateverit is.
Today, if you're satisfied withyour drop-off rate, if that is
something you do not consider tobe a problem, no one's Upset
your hiring camps quickly.
Your morale is great.
You're not Putting the burdenof an empty job on someone
(17:35):
else's plate While they'rehaving to cover two roles.
If you can look at all that andsay we're good, then you don't
need to speed up your interviewprocess.
But if you can't check all ofthose boxes, start with the
timeline and odds areImprovement there will make a
big difference and folks justremember.
Ricky Baez (17:53):
Remember, because I know, I know, I know what people
are thinking right now.
They're like what?
You know?
What, ricky, we got to makesure we get it right.
I, I get it.
I understand you want to makesure you get everything right,
but here's the reality of thesituation.
Nine times that it in thatcandidate out there looking for
a job.
They need that job, they'reneat, they need to find
(18:13):
something and if you're takingyour time with your process and
somebody else is more efficientand it's quicker, then you're
done.
You're done.
Do not underestimate the senseof urgency on the candidates's
behalf, and especially thehigher caliber they are, the
more choices they have andthey're not gonna go with the
unorganized one.
Pete Newsome (18:33):
Right, so I'll know it.
Ricky Baez (18:35):
Make sure they.
Of course they won't know it.
You know who's not gonna care,the people who don't have a shot
anywhere else.
Pete Newsome (18:41):
They're not gonna care.
It sounds harsh, but it's true.
We have to be realistic aboutthis.
So how can you speed it up?
Well, internal communicationand buy off that.
There's a problem, because ifyou don't acknowledge that,
you're probably not going to beMotivated to make changes.
So that's step one getting thebuy-in at the top.
Whoever all the decision-makersare, to say, we need to fix
(19:04):
this, that means your internalinterview team needs to be
accessible, they need to becommitted to it, they need to be
aware that it's important, andthen you know you need to buy in
.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So the next thing you could dois look at what is your
application process.
Is it confusing?
Is it lengthy?
What if you're losingcandidates right up off the,
(19:27):
from the jump, because they lookat it and say, yeah, this is
too much work, I don't want todo it?
Ricky Baez (19:33):
The folks.
An application process shouldnot require an engineering
degree or you to be a rocketscientist to complete it.
I shouldn't have to ask a weekoff of work for me to complete
the application process.
And look and I think you and Ihave had conversations about
this because in my previous jobit's over at a big call center
(19:54):
here in Central Florida we hadan issue where 90% of the people
that applied would not finishthe application process and it
drove me nuts.
I started looking into it.
The application was an hour anda half long because it was the
it was.
You had to submit a resume, youhave to fill everything
manually.
There was a personality test,there's other tests and there's
(20:16):
other tests and by the timeyou're done, the person it's
like you know what?
I'll just be homeless, I'm done.
Pete Newsome (20:23):
I'm not going to work.
Ricky Baez (20:24):
I'm good.
Just you've got to be able totake a look at those things.
And if you have an applicanttracking system right now, folks
, if you don't know how to use,they find your nearest local HR
I mean, I'm IT person they'llshow you how to pull a query.
You can pull it in easy.
Whether it's people solve,whether it's TAS, whatever the
case may be, there's a querythat says that shows you
(20:47):
application completion rates.
That's an important thing totake a look at, right.
And if you see that you want tomake the application process as
short as possible, now you have.
Now you said before Pete thatan application should not be too
easy.
Neither right.
Pete Newsome (21:06):
Well, that's its own challenge these days is the
one click apply that's become soprevalent.
If you make it too easy, I'lltell you what I prefer in this
is let everyone apply on thefront end, but before you engage
directly with a candidate, ifit's a high volume role.
So I tend to think ofrecruiting in two buckets and
(21:27):
now this is a very broad,general statement that's much
more nuanced than this.
But there's high volumepositions that if you put it at
job posting out there, you willget hundreds or thousands of
applicants.
That's one thing.
And there's other positionsthat are more niche, higher
level, whatever they might be.
There's a smaller candidatepool where you may struggle to
get out any applicants at all.
(21:48):
So what we're talking abouthere.
So in that latter scenario, youwant to make it as easy to
apply as possible.
One click is okay.
If you're looking for the guywho's going to send people to
Mars, right, and that engineerwho can build that rocket, well,
you better take anyone who'squalified and thoroughly vet
(22:10):
them right.
You're not going to have toomany candidates, but as you go
into the broader candidate pool,that's where possible.
I think you can let peopleapply initially but then give
them questions to answer, tofurther self-select that they're
qualified for the role.
Because we know that peoplejust blindly apply If it looks
(22:33):
close, if it has a job title, ifit has a few keywords on it
that cause that job descriptionto come up in their search on
LinkedIn or on Indeed.
They're going to click andthink, well, I have no, I'm
going to miss 100% of the shots.
I don't take right the WayneGreski quote, so I may as well
apply.
(22:53):
Well, that's great for thecandidates.
That's a little flawed thinking, in my opinion.
That's a different show, but itputs a big burden on the
recruiting team, who has to sortthrough all of these
unqualified candidates.
So what I like to do is send anauto reply to those candidates
and say thank you for yourapplication.
Please confirm the followingyou have this degree, if it's
(23:16):
required.
You have this skill set, ifit's required.
You're within this geographicdistance, if that's part of it.
So there's ways to mitigatethat volume and take advantage
of technology.
That's my advice there.
That's a bit of a differentshow, but you can take advantage
(23:36):
of the systems and tools thatyou have to create more
efficiency and ultimatelycommunicate better with your
candidates.
Ricky Baez (23:43):
That's right.
And then, going back tosomething we said a little bit
earlier, but I believe it reallydeserves a little bit more
airtime is how many interviews.
You said it and you harped onit.
It's minimized the time ittakes to interview.
Now I get it from a recruitersperspective, from a hiring
authorities perspective.
You want to make sure that theymeet the right people and you
(24:04):
get the right information rightthere in front of you.
But if you got six interviews,one person goes through six.
I don't know what you're goingto get out of that person
Interview number six that youcouldn't get out of, interview
number three.
So if you're ended up, if youget into a point when you have
five, six interviews, either youdon't have the right person or
you don't have the right process.
(24:24):
Either one of those two optionsare not good for you.
So, yes, go back, make surethat you are as concise as
possible.
I know we talked about it, butI'm really big on that one.
Pete Newsome (24:35):
Well, it's a signal to the candidate that
you're not that motivated tofill the role and not subtle.
But candidates will feel thatwe all know what it's like when
someone chooses.
If someone tells you I don'thave time for this, what they
meant is they're not willing toprioritize that thing.
And so if you can't get anotherinterview scheduled for a week
(24:59):
because your internal team istoo busy, what that simply means
is they have differentpriorities and candidates will
pick up on that.
So to the point you madeearlier the bad ones will stick
around.
The good ones will bail.
That's right, because theydon't want to be part of that.
So they don't have to be right.
Not if they have a valuableskill set, that's right.
Go communicate internally,communicate externally.
(25:21):
Let the candidates know wherethey are in the process.
We talked earlier about settingthe stage up front, but that's
not enough.
You have to stay engaged withthem along the way and say all
right, ricky, great jobinterviewing today.
Here's the next step.
Always follow up with that andthen put a timeframe on it.
And if you can't commit todoing that, that's when you have
(25:45):
to look internally and be alittle more introspective and
say why can't I commit to it.
Why can't I give you atimeframe on that follow up?
Well, let's go back topriorities.
It's because your organizationhasn't deemed that important
enough.
So all of this improvement hasto start with the realization
that there's a problem and thatthere's something you can do
(26:07):
about it.
Ricky Baez (26:08):
There's a part in the hiring process that I like
to call the dead period right.
There's a period of time whereit's crucial to become in line.
Pete Newsome (26:20):
That's scared me.
I never knew that.
Ricky Baez (26:23):
I was not expecting it.
So, yeah, there's a dead period, and the dead period is after
the candidate accepts the offerand before they start new
employee orientation, which isat least two weeks.
Folks, this is the time whenyou have to engage with them the
most okay.
Do not forget about them.
If you make them an offer andthey accept it and you don't
(26:46):
talk to them again for 14 days,you are increasing the chances
of you to being ghosted by newemployee orientation.
That's the dead period.
Do not forget about them.
Reach out to them, let themknow what they can expect.
Send them some videos about theorganization.
Here's what Darden restaurantdid to me when I started working
with them many years ago.
And that dead period they now.
(27:08):
First of all, they interviewedme like five times.
That's where I got my idea.
But after each interview theygave me a $50 gift card to the
Olive Garden right.
Each and every time I had like300 bucks worth right and I told
them at the end of the week.
Pete Newsome (27:24):
That's where you're okay with the multiple
interviews 20, I don't care.
Ricky Baez (27:28):
20 interviews, right .
But I told them, I told thehiring authority.
At the end I'm like, look, Igot all these gift cards.
So, depending what you tell me,either I'm gonna use it to
celebrate my new job or cry inmy sorrows.
Either way, I'm going to theOlive Garden.
Pete Newsome (27:42):
Well it's, but that's such an important thing.
If they're going to have adrawn out interview process,
they're making you feel betterabout it.
Employer branding is a hugecomponent of this.
You want to keep that high.
So, even if it, like you said,it doesn't work out for you, you
have a positive recollection ofthat and you're gonna speak
well of that organization.
And the other thing thatthey're doing which I'm glad you
(28:05):
brought it up for this reasonis that we see a lot of
companies wanting candidates tojump through hoops to do
projects, to do assignments.
Sometimes they're lengthy.
If you're gonna ask forsomeone's professional time, you
should compensate them for it.
Pay them, yeah, for it.
Ricky Baez (28:22):
That's a pain.
I mean I got paid to food, butI mean they get paid to food,
but you know what that'smeaningful.
Pete Newsome (28:28):
It's meaningful, it's real dollars and that's you
know.
Go into their restaurants.
Ricky Baez (28:32):
That's a great thing to do, and here's the part that
I really loved right In thatdead period they sent me a
questionnaire to see what I like, what I didn't like that way
for new employer orientation.
They have my Reese's peanutbutter cups they're waiting, my
Diet Coke waiting.
They send me glasses to myhouse.
They were courting me, man.
I felt like they were askingfor a date after I kept telling
(28:52):
them no.
But that's how you do it.
That is how you keep peopleengaged.
And, pete, that was 12 yearsago.
12 years later, I'm stilltalking about it.
So what does that tell you?
Pete Newsome (29:03):
What a perfect example.
But this is a top employer, agreat organization, and no
surprise that they're doingthings like that.
So good lesson for others.
So I think we've covered theground that we needed to cover
here, ricky, but let's justrecap the best practices,
because, as always when we talk,we don't necessarily stay in a
(29:24):
straight line with ourconversations.
Ricky Baez (29:27):
I know it's hard to believe.
Pete Newsome (29:28):
So best practices to avoid a can't drop off, let's
go one at a time.
We'll trade about the first one.
Speed up your interview process, don't let it drag out.
That's my first one.
What's next?
Ricky Baez (29:40):
Communicate, communicate, communicate,
overcommunicate.
Tell them, make them say OK,ricky, I got it.
I know what's going to happennext.
You will have so much betterresults if you overcommunicate,
whereas the exact opposite Ifyou undercommunicate a little
bit, that could create a bigissue for your branding.
Pete Newsome (29:59):
Next one take advantage of technology, the
tools that you've paid for.
Make sure you're using them.
That will help you increaseefficiency and it will also help
you stay in touch withcandidates, help your engagement
and communication along the way.
So leverage your technology.
Ricky Baez (30:15):
Here's a pro tip.
So now we've been talking aboutthe people who got the job.
What's your communication withthe people who didn't get the
job, your final three, yourfinal three?
What are you going to do withthose two people who didn't get
the job?
Here's what you do.
If you got three finalcandidates for one job and one
person got it, obviously thatone person to be employed, you
(30:36):
are not responsible for makingthose other two people who
didn't get the job and make amarketing ambassador for your
organization.
That's why you respond.
And what does that mean?
That means that you treat themso well that when they go home
at night and they're havingdinner with a significant other,
like, did you get that job?
No, but let me tell you I'mgoing back because I didn't get
it, and here's how they treatedme.
(30:56):
If I didn't get the job, couldyou imagine how to treat
employees?
It sends a message about whoyou are as an organization.
Don't skip on that part.
Pete Newsome (31:06):
No, pay attention to your employer brand.
That's a big one.
That is something thatorganizations need to do.
Social media being what it is,the word will get out.
It's a lot faster and easierfor the word to get out today
than it was in the pre-socialmedia days.
So if you haven't changed yourapproach there and, as we talked
(31:29):
about earlier, if you stillthink you hold all the cards in
this process, you need to updateyour thinking.
You need to catch up to moderntimes and then act accordingly.
That's right, is that it?
Yeah, there's one more.
This is probably the mostimportant thing that I could
speak to on the topic of acompany and improving their
(31:50):
candidate drop-off is commit toit as an organization.
So what I mean by that is, as Isaid earlier, but it's worth
restating acknowledge that youhave a problem.
That is step one.
Commit to solving that problem,which is, hopefully we've done
a good job of explaining today.
There aren't that many changes.
(32:10):
They're relatively minorchanges.
They're significant in theimpact they'll have.
But you don't have to reinventthe wheel to do this and then
make sure everyone in theorganization who's involved has
bought in.
Even if they don't want to,they need to act as if they're
bought in because otherwiseyou're going to lose candidates
you want and it's just going toend up with a bad outcome at the
(32:35):
end.
So a lot of things you can do.
Most of them are minor.
The impact from each of themcan be huge.
Ricky Baez (32:41):
That's right.
And again, that last one iscrucial, because one of the
things that I worried about themost is going out there,
recruiting and then selling theidea of coming to work only to
bring them in, and that's notreflected back at the office and
now I'm like a liar, so thatthat thing is probably not.
Sorry For those of you notwatching.
(33:03):
There's this little things Ibring up boys 2023.
I bring up a thumbs up, andthere's AI all kinds of little
cartoons on the screen with yousee, the video is actually
pretty.
Pete Newsome (33:12):
That's what I was thinking.
Ai is taken over, even evenwhen you don't want it to be
2023.
Ricky Baez (33:18):
I'm thinking we're already have flying cars.
No, we don't have that, but wegot little emojis on zoom.
Pete Newsome (33:24):
We have cartoon emojis and we don't know how to
turn them off.
Perfect.
Well, if you've listened thisfar, hopefully enjoyed Ricky's
cartoon emoji that just poppedup.
If not, and you're listening,this is a great reason.
Oh, perfect, more Now you have.
Ricky Baez (33:38):
I got to confirm you all over.
Pete Newsome (33:40):
Great, well, perfect reason and excuse to go
on YouTube and watch the videothere, or go to our
4cornerresources.
com at com and navigate to ourblog section.
You can see the video and, ifyou have questions, as always,
email us hire calling, hirecalling at 4cornerresources.
com We'd love your input and asuggestion for topics.
(34:02):
So, ricky, I think that's it.
Ricky Baez (34:03):
I think that's it.
We, uh, we are able to end thiswithout a famous phrase, and
I'm not going to say it.
Pete Newsome (34:08):
Let's just say good night.
We have to listen to other onesto go see that, so goodbye for
now.
Thanks for listening.
Have a good one, bye.
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